Winds of Change.NET: Liberty. Discovery. Humanity. Victory.


Formal Affiliations

Anti-Idiotarian Manifesto
Euston Democratic Progressive Manifesto
Real Democracy for Iran!
Support Denamrk
Million Voices for Darfur
milblogs
Prev | List | Random | Next | Join
Powered by RingSurf!

e-Syndication

December 12, 2003

The Battle of Thunder Run

by Joe Katzman at December 12, 2003 12:11 AM

We wrote at the time about "The Battle of Curly, Larry, and Moe." Now Trent Telenko directs our attention to an L.A. Times Magazine piece that reconstructs the pivotal battle of Operation Iraqi Freedom - one the Americans almost didn't win (login: laexaminer / laexaminer). The biggest factor in their success? Surprisingly, it may have been Iraq's infamous Information Minister:

"Nine hundred and seventy-five men invading a city of 5 million sounded audacious, or worse, to the U.S. troops assigned the mission outside Baghdad last April 6. Ten years earlier, in Mogadishu, outnumbered American soldiers had been trapped and killed by Somali street fighters. Now some U.S. commanders, convinced the odds were far better in Iraq, scrapped the original plan for taking Baghdad with a steady siege and instead ordered a single bold thrust into the city. The battle that followed became the climax of the war and rewrote American military doctrine on urban warfare.

Back home, Americans learned of the victory in sketchy reports that focused on the outcome—a column of armored vehicles had raced into the city and seized Saddam Hussein's palaces and ministries. What the public didn't know was how close the U.S. forces came to experiencing another Mogadishu. Military units were surrounded, waging desperate fights at three critical interchanges. If any of those fell, the Americans would have been cut off from critical supplies and ammunition....

"L’audace, l’audace, toujours l’audace." This time, it was the right call. Read David Zucchino's "The Thunder Run" in full, and you'll find a true story that few fictional thrillers could match.

UPDATE: See also Gizmag's May 3, 2005 article "Heavy Metal - A Tank Company's Battle to Baghdad"


TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.windsofchange.net/windsopcentre-cms/trackback.cgi/2134

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference
"The Battle of Thunder Run"
Tracked: December 12, 2003 11:28 PM
The Three Stoogies Of Victory from Sgt. Stryker's Daily Briefing
Excerpt: I posted a small tidbit on the battle of the Three Stoogies in Baghdad last June (here). However, Joe Katzman has the skinney on the battle Trent Trelinko claims "will replace the 'Battle of 73 Easting' as the most studied ground engagement in U.S. His...
Tracked: August 11, 2005 11:12 AM
Excerpt: M6 Linebacker, Iraq The U.S. Army Tank-automotive and Armaments Command in Warren, MI has issued a pair of contracts for the RESET (restoration of used vehicles to like-new condition) of Bradley Armored Fighting vehicles. One contract will reset 101 Br...
Tracked: October 11, 2005 5:30 AM
Excerpt: M1126 Stryker ICV DID has covered the Stryker vehicle before, most notably for the unexpectedly positive reviews the nonpartisan Project On Government Oversight received when it spoke to soldiers who served in them and appreciated the vehicles' capabil...
Tracked: April 14, 2006 4:34 PM
Excerpt: Stryker ICV, Korea(click to view full) DID has covered the Stryker vehicle before, most notably for the unexpectedly positive reviews the nonpartisan Project On Government Oversight received when it spoke to soldiers who served in them and appreciated ...
Tracked: September 24, 2006 8:00 PM
Excerpt: Up-armored M3A3s in Iraq(click to view full) The USA's M2/M3 Bradley Fighting Vehicles have played a central role in armed operations in Iraq. Many of them are now doing it with special reactive applique armor tiles that significantly improve their...

Comments
#1 from Slartibartfast at 4:03 pm on Dec 12, 2003

Awesome article. Makes me appreciate our men in uniform all that much more.

#2 from praktike at 4:03 pm on Dec 12, 2003

I still don't understand--larger questions aside--why we didn't just bomb the building in Mogadishu.

#3 from praktike at 4:03 pm on Dec 12, 2003

I still don't understand--larger questions aside--why we didn't just bomb the building in Mogadishu.

#4 from Rob Lyman at 4:14 pm on Dec 12, 2003

Praktike,

Given than our boys were denied armor for political reasons ("too provacative"), it isn't that surprising that we didn't blow up the building, with the attendant "civilian" casualties, etc.

#5 from Ron at 4:53 pm on Dec 12, 2003

While this may have rewrote American military doctrine on urban warfare, isn't that an Israeli tactic? Fight urban from the center out.

#6 from M. Simon at 7:57 pm on Dec 12, 2003

Note the snarky comment at the end of an otherwise great article.

#7 from FH at 11:40 pm on Dec 12, 2003

Seems to me that if this tactic is to be applied in the future, greater care needs to be taken to cover the supply lanes. If the Arabs were more competetent, they would have been able to cut the US forces off and then use attrition and friction to their advantage. Very dangerous move, if you ask me. I believe that there was something similar during WW2, on one of the Islands in the pacific theater, where US forces almost got cut off from supplies.

#8 from rt at 2:33 am on Dec 13, 2003

"... the last one in Iraq for a long time."

snarky is an understatement. otherwise, that article was straight, factual and right to the point.

that whole article is a jerry bruckhiemer film just beggin' to be made.

#9 from Tom K at 6:20 pm on Dec 13, 2003

praktike:

I still don't understand--larger questions aside--why we didn't just bomb the building in Mogadishu.

For the same reason we weren't allowed to use indirect fires (ie: mortars, arty) - political timidity in the face of potential civilian casualties, and a fear that we might be seen to be escalating the situation into something resembling a war rather than a "humanitarian" mission. Not commenting on the quality of these decisions, only the basis for them.

#10 from Marcel at 9:26 pm on Dec 18, 2005

The Abramses and Bradleys performed excellent.
The problem was being cut off-from supplies.

The problem with supplies is that its carried out by soft-skin wheeled vehicles.
These vehicles can't cross every terrain which the armored vehicles can cross or climb obstacles as good (because they are wheeled) and can't survive enemy fire because they are not armored.

What is needed is tracked armored supply vehicles.
Lots of M113s in storage, give them add-on armor(ERA, passive or both) and use them to transport fuel and ammunition and you have survivable supply vehicles.

If you have survivable supply vehicles then there would have been no danger in being cut-off from supplies.
Current supply vehicles are bombs on wheels.

Post a comment

Here are some quick tips for adding simple Textile formatting to your comments, though you can also use proper HTML tags:

*This* puts text in bold.

_This_ puts text in italics.

bq. This "bq." at the beginning of a paragraph, flush with the left hand side and with a space after it, is the code to indent one paragraph of text as a block quote.

To add a live URL, "Text to display":http://windsofchange.net/ (no spaces between) will show up as Text to display. Always use this for links - otherwise you will screw up the columns on our main blog page.

Finally, note that a constant onslaught of Trackback spams from auto-generated blogspot blogs has forced Winds to ban the blogspot.com domain from use in comments or trackbacks. If you host on blogspot, consider moving; otherwise, the complaints need to be directed at Google not us.










Archives By Category
-FEATURES: 48 Ways to Wisdom (24)
-FEATURES: Diaries & Roundups (10)
-FEATURES: Military Transformation Uplink (12)
-FEATURES: New Energy Currents (20)
-FEATURES: Reader Highlights (2)
-FEATURES: Regional Briefings (166)
-FEATURES: Sufi Wisdom (158)
-FEATURES: The Bard's Breath (32)
-FEATURES: Winds of Discovery (6)
-FEATURES: Winds of War [WoT] (444)
4 HA: 4th-Gen Warfare (102)
4 HA: al-Qaeda (159)
4 HA: Crime, Organized (26)
4 HA: Evil Exists (110)
4 HA: Intelligence/Spycraft (100)
4 HA: Military (520)
4 HA: Nukes, Poisons, Germs (135)
4 HA: Statecraft (29)
4 HA: War on Terror articles (706)
Best Of... (179)
BIZ: Business & Organizations (130)
BIZ: Economics (95)
BIZ: Energy (70)
CIVIS (230)
CIVIS: Copyright Wars (25)
CIVIS: Drug Wars (18)
CIVIS: Edu-Kooks (76)
CIVIS: Free Societies (284)
CIVIS: Hall of Shame (162)
CIVIS: Hatred Rising (114)
CIVIS: Journalism & Media (396)
CIVIS: Spirit of America.NET (31)
CIVIS: War Within the West (309)
COLUMNISTS: M. Simon (13)
COLUMNISTS: Tarek Heggy (33)
GEO: Afghanistan (78)
GEO: Africa (101)
GEO: Asia (116)
GEO: Aussies & Kiwis (20)
GEO: Canada (68)
GEO: China (86)
GEO: Europe (176)
GEO: France (71)
GEO: India-Pakistan (112)
GEO: Iran (223)
GEO: Iraq (956)
GEO: Israel (245)
GEO: Koreas (64)
GEO: Latin America (63)
GEO: Middle East (254)
GEO: Russia (74)
GEO: Saudi Arabia (64)
GEO: Sudan (36)
GEO: U.K. (70)
GEO: U.N. (60)
GEO: U.S. of A (502)
HUMANITY (88)
HUMANITY: Art & Culture (157)
HUMANITY: Art - Music (32)
HUMANITY: Art - Poetry (6)
HUMANITY: Christianity (52)
HUMANITY: Heroes & Achievements (228)
HUMANITY: History (124)
HUMANITY: Islam (182)
HUMANITY: Judaism (136)
HUMANITY: Love (32)
HUMANITY: Philosophy (47)
HUMANITY: Spirituality & Religion (72)
HUMANITY: Zen & Buddhism (28)
Humour (194)
Misc. (42)
NET: Blogosphere (390)
NET: Cyber-Security (16)
NET: Grid Computing (3)
NET: Spam (24)
NET: The Internet (35)
NET: The Open Source Meme (17)
Personal (186)
SCI-TECH: Biotech & Medical (83)
SCI-TECH: Eco-tech (81)
SCI-TECH: Nanotech (27)
SCI-TECH: Science (111)
SCI-TECH: Space (75)
SCI-TECH: Technology (143)
SPORTS (45)
SPORTS: Baseball (75)
Trends (64)
USA: America Catch-all (19)
USA: Anti-Americanism (6)
USA: California Politics (4)
USA: Conservatives & GOP (31)
USA: Dem Party Renewal (70)
USA: Domestic Issues (50)
USA: Elections (83)
USA: Grand Strategy (15)
USA: Homeland Security (105)
VictoryPAC (3)
Winds of Change.NET (49)

Archives by Date
Winds Blogroll


Powered by:
LighTTPD web server
Ubuntu Linux
Movable Type
Hosted by Pixelgate
Support VictoryPAC
Recent Entries

Support Winds of Change.NET!


Your support & assistance is greatly appreciated, and makes a difference!
The Winds Crew:

Town Founder:
Joe Katzman
joe {at} windsofchange. net
Joe's Normblog Interview

Left-Hand Man:
Marc 'Armed Liberal' Danziger
armed {at} windsofchange. net
A.L.'s Normblog Interview

Other Winds Marshals
'AMac', aka. Marshal Festus (AMac@...)
Robin "Straight Shooter" Burk
'Cicero', aka. The Quiet Man (cicero@...)
David Blue (david.blue@...)
'Lewy14', aka. Marshal Leroy (lewy14@...)
'Nortius Maximus', aka. Big Tuna (nortius.maximus@...)

Other Regulars
'Callimachus' (callimachus@...)
'Demosophist' (demosophist@...)
Rev./Maj. Donald Sensing
'Molon Labe' (molon.labe@...)
'Neo Neo-Con'
Tarek Heggy (tarek@...)

Semi-Active:
Arthur Chrenkoff
'Gabriel Gonzalez' (in Paris)
Tim Oren (tim@...)
Trent Telenko (trent@...)

Posting Affiliates
Athena: Terrorism Unveiled
Chester: The Adventures of Chester
Dave Schuler: The Glittering Eye
Grim: Grim's Lair et. al. Joel Gaines [Russia]
Michael Totten
MILblogging.com: The MilBlogs directory
Murdoc [Military]
Situational Awareness team [Military]
Nathan Hamm [Central Asia]
Randy Paul [Latin America]
Robert Koehler [Koreas]
Robi Sen [India & S. Asia]
Nitin Pai [India & S. Asia]
Simon [China & E. Asia]
Yehudit: Kesher Talk

Regular Topic Briefings:
Andrew Olmsted [Iraq Weekly]
Joel Gaines [Iraq Weekly]
Security Watchtower [GWoT Mon.]
Peace Like A River [GWoT Mon.]
Colt [GWoT Thu.]
John Atkinson [Alternative Energy]
Peter Wolfgang [Alternative Energy]
Omri Ceren [Hatewatch]

Emeritus:
Adil Farooq (adil@...)
Celeste Bilby (celeste@...)
Dan Darling
Gary Farber (gary@...)
Hossein Derakhshan (hoder@...)
T.L. James (tljames@...)
Robin Burk (robin@...)


Winds of Change.NET Blogkids & Affiliates

·
The Argus: covering Central Asia
· Canis Iratus: Glen Wishard
· Correct-Amundo: Tech & society
· Discarded Lies: Ev & Zorkie
· The Flying Kiwi: Donovan Janus
· The Glittering Eye: Dave Schuler
· Gumptionology: Nortius Maximus
· Hot Needle of Inquiry: 'Jinnderella'
· Laughing Wolf: C. Blake Powers
· Out The Mazoo: 'Mazoo'
· Power and Control: M. Simon
· Praktike's Place: 'Praktike'
· Random Probabilities: Robin Burk
· Siberian Light: covering Russia
· The Spirit of Man

· Good News From the Front
· WATCH/: covering the war on terror

Archives By Category
-FEATURES: 48 Ways to Wisdom (24)
-FEATURES: Diaries & Roundups (10)
-FEATURES: Military Transformation Uplink (12)
-FEATURES: New Energy Currents (20)
-FEATURES: Reader Highlights (2)
-FEATURES: Regional Briefings (166)
-FEATURES: Sufi Wisdom (158)
-FEATURES: The Bard's Breath (32)
-FEATURES: Winds of Discovery (6)
-FEATURES: Winds of War [WoT] (444)
4 HA: 4th-Gen Warfare (102)
4 HA: al-Qaeda (159)
4 HA: Crime, Organized (26)
4 HA: Evil Exists (110)
4 HA: Intelligence/Spycraft (100)
4 HA: Military (520)
4 HA: Nukes, Poisons, Germs (135)
4 HA: Statecraft (29)
4 HA: War on Terror articles (706)
Best Of... (179)
BIZ: Business & Organizations (130)
BIZ: Economics (95)
BIZ: Energy (70)
CIVIS (230)
CIVIS: Copyright Wars (25)
CIVIS: Drug Wars (18)
CIVIS: Edu-Kooks (76)
CIVIS: Free Societies (284)
CIVIS: Hall of Shame (162)
CIVIS: Hatred Rising (114)
CIVIS: Journalism & Media (396)
CIVIS: Spirit of America.NET (31)
CIVIS: War Within the West (309)
COLUMNISTS: M. Simon (13)
COLUMNISTS: Tarek Heggy (33)
GEO: Afghanistan (78)
GEO: Africa (101)
GEO: Asia (116)
GEO: Aussies & Kiwis (20)
GEO: Canada (68)
GEO: China (86)
GEO: Europe (176)
GEO: France (71)
GEO: India-Pakistan (112)
GEO: Iran (223)
GEO: Iraq (956)
GEO: Israel (245)
GEO: Koreas (64)
GEO: Latin America (63)
GEO: Middle East (254)
GEO: Russia (74)
GEO: Saudi Arabia (64)
GEO: Sudan (36)
GEO: U.K. (70)
GEO: U.N. (60)
GEO: U.S. of A (502)
HUMANITY (88)
HUMANITY: Art & Culture (157)
HUMANITY: Art - Music (32)
HUMANITY: Art - Poetry (6)
HUMANITY: Christianity (52)
HUMANITY: Heroes & Achievements (228)
HUMANITY: History (124)
HUMANITY: Islam (182)
HUMANITY: Judaism (136)
HUMANITY: Love (32)
HUMANITY: Philosophy (47)
HUMANITY: Spirituality & Religion (72)
HUMANITY: Zen & Buddhism (28)
Humour (194)
Misc. (42)
NET: Blogosphere (390)
NET: Cyber-Security (16)
NET: Grid Computing (3)
NET: Spam (24)
NET: The Internet (35)
NET: The Open Source Meme (17)
Personal (186)
SCI-TECH: Biotech & Medical (83)
SCI-TECH: Eco-tech (81)
SCI-TECH: Nanotech (27)
SCI-TECH: Science (111)
SCI-TECH: Space (75)
SCI-TECH: Technology (143)
SPORTS (45)
SPORTS: Baseball (75)
Trends (64)
USA: America Catch-all (19)
USA: Anti-Americanism (6)
USA: California Politics (4)
USA: Conservatives & GOP (31)
USA: Dem Party Renewal (70)
USA: Domestic Issues (50)
USA: Elections (83)
USA: Grand Strategy (15)
USA: Homeland Security (105)
VictoryPAC (3)
Winds of Change.NET (49)

Archives by Date
Winds Blogroll


Powered by:
LighTTPD web server
Ubuntu Linux
Movable Type
Hosted by Pixelgate