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March 6, 2005Immigrants, Religion and Conflict - the U.S. Experienceby Robin Burk at March 6, 2005 1:15 AM
This is Part 1-A to Friday's post on violence against women in Sweden. Before we look closely at what is (and isn't) being done in response to the sharp rise in violence within Swedish immigrant communities, it's worth considering what our experience has been in the U.S. I'd like to springboard this post off of a longish quote from a recent paper written by Charles Hirschman of the Univ. of Washington entitled The Role of Religion in the Origins and Adaptation of Immigrant Groups: The wave of post 1965 immigration has brought a new religious diversity to the United States. Over the last few decades, Islamic mosques and Buddhist and Hindu temples have appeared in most major cities and in quite a few smaller cities and towns. New places of worship have been constructed, but many new churches or temples begin in storefronts, the “borrowed” quarters of other churches, or simply in the homes of members. New immigrants are also bringing new forms of Christianity and Judaism that have shaped the content and the language of services in many existing churches and synagogues. Religious faith and religious organizations remain vital to many, if not most, persons in the modern world. It is only through religion, or other spiritual beliefs, that many people are able to find solace for the inevitable human experiences of death, suffering, and loss. With the expansion of knowledge and the heightened sense of control that accompany modernity, the inexplicability of death may be even more poignant than in traditional societies where death is an everyday experience. Off to a Rocky (and Unchurched) Start Things didn't always work this way. As Hirschman points out, According to the often-retold stories of America’s founding, the early colonists were fleeing religious intolerance in the Old World and they wanted freedom to express their deeply felt religious beliefs. Their own experience with religious persecution was thought to have created a social and cultural environment in which freedom of religion would eventually flourish. The reality, however, was that colonial America was not particularly religious and quite intolerant. The creation of an American society that was highly religious—in terms of the proportion of adherents and high levels of participation—and pluralist happened slowly over the course of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. ... less than one in five persons—only 17 percent—in colonial America on the eve of the revolution were members of a church. Those are the statistics I learned 20 years ago as well. And it remained that way through the 1790s. So how did we get to where we are today? Not automatically .... Well into the eighteenth century, colonial America remained frontier society, which was shaped by the character of migrants who left settled lands to find their fortune and adventure in the New World. With a surplus of men relative to women and a youthful age structure, frontiers are places where many people are not attracted to traditional conventions, including religion. The United States, at the time of its founding, was a rather “unchurched” society. Sometimes I think it is a God-given miracle that the U.S. coalesced into a single country. The colonies each had differences they jealously guarded, including religion. Here is where the Constitution becomes so very important for us. Freedom of religion (or of no religion) as mandated by the First Amendment does not appear to be a sign of tolerance among religious people, but perhaps the compromise that emerged from the rivalries among the many Protestant denominations and the majority of colonialists who were not adherents of any religion. In the interest of time and space here, I'll skip over the frontier revivals, the growth of utopian sects, Mormonism and other 19th century religious phenomena in the U.S. to look at the role of religion in two massive waves of immigration: the Irish in the 19th century and Eastern Europeans in the 20th. "No Irish Need Apply" Immigrants from Ireland were present in small numbers in the U.S. from early in the country's history. The rate of Irish immigration began increasing in the 1820s and shot up sharply around the time of the 1846 Great Famine. During the 19th century England grew powerful and wealthy as a result of the Industrial Revolution. In the 1820s many poor Irish migrated to Britain for seasonal work; by the late 1830s they had begun to settle in the northern industrial towns. There are many opinions as to why Ireland did not successfully industrialize in parallel with Britain, and many factors were probably at work: the degree to which land was in the hands of English owners, exacerbated by the immigration of Scots to northern Ireland in the first half of the 18th century; lack of natural resources and perhaps aspects of the Irish culture. Whatever the reasons might be, both British and Continental authors uniformly described the Irish as crude, dirty, slothful, given to drunkenness and violent. By the mid 1840s Britain began restricting both immigration from Ireland and Irish-made goods. Irish in Britain were blamed for driving down wages in the agricultural sector; for decades most were concentrated to unskilled or low-skilled jobs. Meanwhile, in Ireland itself as the soil began to be overworked and the potato crops subject to disease, landowners began forcibly destroying tenant homes and forcing the peasantry off their property in favor of sheep and other livestock. Thus, Irish immigration to the U.S. did not occur in a vacuum. From the early days, there were those (in places like Boston) who viewed the Irish as slothful, violent, naturally stupid, culturally and religiously barbaric and a danger to society if too many were to gather in one place. As in Britain, Irish immigrants either lacked skills for better jobs or were openly discriminated against. "No Irish Need Apply" signs were plentiful in many places of employment along the eastern seaboard, especially in New England. Just north of my hometown area, in the Pocono Mountains of eastern Pennsylvania, Irish coal miners organized the secretive Molly McGuire gang. The Molly McGuires, modeled on an infamous Irish vigilante group from the past, used sabotage, beatings, threats and in a few cases explosives to fight against mine owners and employment practices in the 1850s and 1860s. They were linked to, but not synonymous with, the secretive fraternal group the Ancient Order of Hibernians. As few non-Irish spoke their Gaelic language or knew Irish customs well, penetration of the McGuires by law enforcement or private security forces was difficult. The miners had multiple motives for their violence, including a resentment of the military draft that supported the Union Army in the Civil War. Mostly Democrats, they resented their Republican employers, resented that wealthy men could buy their way out of serving and resented being asked to risk their lives for Blacks, whom they considered inferior. Draft riots broke out in several states and in New York included at least one lynching of African Americans. Perhaps it was the tension over the war and the draft, perhaps it was the stress the miners were facing as they struggled to keep up with the increased production demands created by the war, or perhaps it was the white hot rage of men who were being used as fodder for the great industrial machine, but the years during and immediately after the Civil War were particularly bloody. Between 1863 and 1867, there were 57 murders in Schuylkill County alone.Two factors eventually led to the integration of Irish immigrants into the mainstream in the U.S. The first, ironically, was the Civil War and the opening of the western territories to settlement. Irish laborers took on the dangerous, backbreaking work of laying the transcontinental railroads well before the war, as the American children's version of a more pointed folk song hints: In eighteen hundred and forty one The prairies, the mountains and the Gold Rush towns in California and Alaska - all offered breathing room, a chance to work hard and build a new life. The Homestead Act of 1862 allowed those with a modest amount of money to become landowners. Many laborers who had lived prudently and saved their wages and later many veterans of the Civil War took advantage of this opportunity: The Homestead Act of 1862 has been called one the most important pieces of Legislation in the history of the United States. Signed into law in 1862 by Abraham Lincoln after the secession of southern states, this Act turned over vast amounts of the public domain to private citizens. 270 millions acres, or 10% of the area of the United States was claimed and settled under this act. By the early 1870s violence in the coal mining areas of Pennsylvania was over. Not all of the Irish immigrants went west. Many settled in the newly industrializing towns in the East and MidWest. There, the Roman Catholic church became the second important factor in the integration of the Irish into American life. As Hirschman notes, the Church played an increasing role in the lives of Irish and other Catholics as they moved out of tenant slums and coal mines. The growth in influence of the Catholic Church in the U.S. was not a smooth process, however, nor one that was obviously going to be successful: The question of how religious the new immigrants were depends, in part, on the definition of religiosity. In the American context, religious practice usually means attending weekly services on a regular basis. In most rural areas of Europe, as well as in Asia and Latin America, religion and folk beliefs were intertwined into a way of life. Spirits of nature and the souls of the departed were nearby, and the daily life of villagers included many rituals to bring good fortune, to cure illness, and to avoid dangers. Many of these ideas were intertwined with formal religious beliefs in ways that religious purists criticized. As Joseph Ferrie of Northwestern University notes, Irish immigrants differed greatly in the skills they brought with them and the success they carved out for themselves in the New World - a reminder that education and culture play a role in the fortunes of immigrants. But as the example of the U.S. shows, so too does public policy and the leadership of religious and civic organizations. These were not fixed, but evolved over time in response to successive waves of immigration and to the opportunities offered by their new country - a country which, in turn, they shaped in succeeding decades. Ellis Island and the Great Immigration Wave of the Early 20th Century In 1892, the Ellis Island facility opened in New York harbor. Over 12 million immigrants, mostly from Eastern and Southern Europe, poured through its gates over the next 30 years. Predominantly Catholic and Eastern Orthodox by religion, sometimes having no or very little English and often coming from rural villages, these immigrants strained the fabric of the country. The resulting backlash led to the highly restrictive anti-immigration legislation of 1924. In addition, after a Polish anarchist assasinated President McKinley in 1901, Congress forbade immigration to members of certain political groups deemed violent or a threat to civil order - a move that in retrospect seems prudent, given that the assasination of Archduke Frances Ferdinand by a Serbian anarchist with ties to an international terror network was the trigger for World War I. Once again, a massive wave of immigrants threatened the identity of the existing society. The new immigrants were strange and threatening, with their alien food, dress, languages, habits and unfamiliarity with the customs that had evolved here over more than 250 years. Nativist political parties emerged, demanding that borders be closed to these sub-human, dangerous people who (in many cases) came from countries where anarchists were assasinating royalty and violent revolution threatened. Overtly violent groups like the Ku Klux Klan gained support in some parts of the country. My grandfather (father's father) was the son of a Ukrainian landowner whose ethnic roots go back to the horsemen of the steppes. The family held their estates in exchange for raising and training cavalry horses and for organizing border patrols along the vast south-west portion of the Russian empire. Just before the Revolution broke out in Russia, my great-grandfather brought his headstrong 17 year old son, his oldest child, to live with a relative in the mid-Atlantic area of the United States. He returned to take up his military duties and they never met again. Some of my grandfather's siblings escaped during or just after the Revolution and made their way to Canada; others died defending their home or fighting against the Germans in the World War that crashed eastward a few years later. My grandmother (father's mother) was the daughter of a Khulak family in western Ukraine. Although they had worked hard and gained some financial stability, under Russian law and that of the Austro-Hungarian Empire that controlled lands around Lvov at the time, they could not own their property or pass it on to their children. My great-grandfather came to the U.S. and worked for 6 years hoping to raise the funds to bring his entire family here. When the Revolution threatened, he returned and used his savings to send his two oldest children here to live with a distant cousin. Sophie, age 17, and her 15 year old brother arrived at Ellis Island with few English skills. They expected to walk to Connecticut that day, since they'd been told it was right next to New York. Eventually, Sophie proudly watched her brother graduate from high school after she picked fruit to raise the money for his books and clothes. Then she married Phillip - a mixing of classes that could never have happened in the old country. Those of Sophie's family who did not die during Stalin's enforced starvation and collectivization of the farms in the 1930s died in WWII, with the exception of one brother whose letters came with most of the text cut out by Soviet censors. The period after WWI was a turbulent one. In 1919, a workers' strike was observed by nearly 1/5 of all laborers in the U.S. There was anarchist violence in several parts of the country, tied (probably correctly) to immigrants from Eastern Europe and the Balkans. Slavs found themselves turned away from employment offices, not only during the Depression of the 1930s but even during WWII when labor was desperately needed. Nevertheless, Sophie and Phillip's 10 children attended public schools, served in the military and joined the middle class. During the late 1930s my father lived with another family and worked on their farm in exchange for room, board and clothes to wear to school. By the 1950s, the post war economic and technical boom allowed him to buy a modest home. Three of his four children hold bachelor's degrees; one holds multiple graduate degrees. The small town I grew up in had churches from 12 different denominations, ranging from mainstream Protestant to a small Assembly of God congregation. On a two block stretch of side street, our 5000 souls supported a Roman Catholic church, an Eastern Orthodox church and a Byzantine Rite Catholic congregation as well. Our Slavic, Orthodox family lived in an otherwise all-Austrian Catholic neighborhood. A friend of mine down the street lived with grandparents from Japan (her grandfather fought in the War against the U.S.) and a father who is half German and half Italian by ancestry. Something worked right. Despite all the difficulties and rough spots, the massive waves of immigration that threatened to tear apart the country eventually were absorbed and enriched it instead. Lessons Learned - What Worked Here and Why This pluralistic society that is deeply religiously observant and ethnically diverse did not occur easily or all at once. Several factors played a key role. First, opportunity. Immigrants often found themselves in low-paying jobs, crammed into slums, discriminated against. But again and again, in different ways, opportunities arose that opened the door to a better life here. Homesteading the prairies, building the railroads, working in mines and steel mills, the ease of starting small businesses, the G.I. bill that sent thousands of WWII veterans to college -- each of these meant that immigrants were never totally shut out. Nor, given the relative size of the country and its population, could any one ethnic or religious group dominate as a large minority - at least, not for long. Second, the adaptability of religious and social organizations. By the time of the Eastern and Southern European wave, precedents were in place for the creation of local ethnic clubs and social networks. Along with the impressive and unprecedented evolution of the American Catholic Church, these helped to support immigrants by offering ties to their cultures of origin in a new land. Moreover, as Hirschman documents, immigrants to the U.S. become more religiously observant here than their parents were in the countries of origin. And yet, that increased religious identity has, by and large, not led to fracturing and conflict. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. The very first clause of the Bill of Rights. Congress shall not do so - but for decades, States could and a few did. Free of either the restrictions of an Established single religious authority or of a stifling political establishment hostile to religion, Americans have evolved a rich and deep religious (and irreligious!) plurality that continues to adapt and change. As Hirschman notes, the latest wave of immigrants - many from the Pacific Rim, Asia, Latin America and the Indian subcontinent - are adapting and contributing their religious life here while also enjoying aspects of their homeland cultures. I am not unaware of the challenges we face regarding immigration and assimilation, especially since 9/11. It is an open question whether, to what degree and how some of our immigrants will come to identify with America. But we've been through some tough patches before. I'm optimistic that we can get through this one as well. Whether the American experience can be adapted and adopted in places like Sweden is a different matter and one that I'm less clear on. In Part 2 of my post, I'll take a look at the response of the Swedish authorities and some feminist groups to the challenge of violence in immigrant communities there. Full Series Swedish Rape Stats: Where's The Outrage?
Comments
#1 from Brian H at 1:59 am on Mar 06, 2005
Very interesting; much of it I knew in a general kind of way, but you fill in a lot of gaps. The picture of ethnic sociology dominating the growth of various churches is perhaps not one most believers would be happy with, but it certainly fits the facts rather well. If you're interested in a garish and tawdry sideshow, check out the current struggle for power and control of assets going on in the West Coast polygamist population, in the various Bountifuls and elsewhere. Quite an anachronistic societal sub-culture. Awesome, Robin! I wish I could have you for a teacher-- well...i guess i do, in a way. ;) You seem to think that the ghettoization of immigrants in Sweden is totally independent of their religious and cultural background. Oh, no, not independent. Islam is a highly successful ESS (evolutionarily stable strategy). That makes assimilation especially difficult. But i do think ANY sub-population, deme, clade whatever that is ghettoized, will have increased drug trafficking, violent crime, rape, etc. Don't you? How successful are we in the States at assimilating immigrant populations?
#3 from Robin Burk at 2:12 am on Mar 06, 2005
Thanks, Jinderella. ;-) Re: success: I think I just argued at length that we're pretty good at it - in the context of our somewhat unique definition of assimilation. For instance, consider the way in which networks of Asian Indians have helped each other acquire motels all across the country. This ethnic population, many of them from southern India, lend each other money and share expertise. Whole families work to make these 2nd tier businesses successful. I've encountered more than one sari'd and nose ring'd clerk late at night when I've finally checked in at the front desk of a Best Western in some small town in the midwest. Now, by the French model, this isn't assimilation at all. Chances are that, apart from their customers, many in this generation spend relatively little time with people from other religious and ethnic backgrounds. They are not, however, hostile to those other groups - and their kids are going to school with them. It's the classic American way of pluralistic assimilation. In many Korean-American communities it used to be small grocery or all-night stores. In many Italian-American communities it was small restaurants or dry cleaning businesses. For many Poles it was the steel mills. Victor Davis Hanson raises the question of whether Hispanic immigrants will fit this pattern. That's a complex question that I don't have my mind made up about yet. There are some data that point in both directions, i.e. yes and no.
#4 from Andrew J. Lazarus at 2:34 am on Mar 06, 2005
I hate to quibble, but over one quarter of the population of South Korea is Christian, hardly suggesting that Korean churches in America represent assimilation.
#5 from Robin Burk at 2:44 am on Mar 06, 2005
I'm not sure what your quibble is, exactly. Hirshman points out that immigrants to America often evolve their religious practices here in ways that enhance both their religious identity and their identity as Americans. The point is not that all Korean Americans somehow are assimilated by becoming or being Christian. The point is that those who are Christian have developed ways of worshipping here which both have a Korean flavor to them and which also tie them closely to other Christian communities. I can attest to the latter point from personal experience. Moreover, IIRC Korean immigrants to the U.S. include a higher (I believe much higher, but I don't have the numbers to hand) percentage of Christians than exist in the South Korean population. Hirschman brings a scholar's point of view to describe one dimension of the immigrant experience in the U.S. and of the social response to immigration which has repeated in a discernable pattern over several cycles of massive immigration to this country. "The increase in American religiosity over the past two centuries appears to be due to two primary sources. The first was the competition for church membership created by the “upstart sects,” most notably Baptists and Methodists, on the American frontier. Finke and Stark argue, convincingly in my opinion, that competition among churches for support and members increased the fraction of the total population that were churchgoers. The other major factor was the ability of the American Catholic Church, especially after 1850, to retain a high degree of religious identification and practice among the descendants of immigrants from Catholic nations and regions in Europe." Another view recounts the history of "awakenings". Consider The Great Awakening, actually The First Great Awakening since there were 2 or 3 more depending on who you cite: "What historians call "the first Great Awakening" can best be described as a revitalization of religious piety that swept through the American colonies between the 1730s and the 1770s. That revival was part of a much broader movement, an evangelical upsurge taking place simultaneously on the other side of the Atlantic, most notably in England, Scotland, and Germany. In all these Protestant cultures during the middle decades of the eighteenth century, a new Age of Faith rose to counter the currents of the Age of Enlightenment, to reaffirm the view that being truly religious meant trusting the heart rather than the head, prizing feeling more than thinking, and relying on biblical revelation rather than human reason." See also The Second Great Awakening that occured about 100 years later beginning in the 1830s and was a more home-grown affair than the European lead first awakening. There was also a third awakening in the 1880s and more controversially a fourth awakening in the 1960s that saw an increase in world religions outside the Judeo-Christian fold including New Age, Wiccan, Neo-Pagan, Buddhism and Hinduism as well as the new forms of Evangelical Christianity that are so strong today. Some see a pattern to the location and timing of these events. Robin, good success stories! The Irish experience certainly wasn't smooth, and it has been used as an analysis template before:
The Negro Family: The Case For National Action (Office of Policy Planning and Research , United States Department of Labor, March 1965.) More specifically, the report was put together by the Assistant Secretary at the U.S. Department of Labor - Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
#9 from Foobarista at 9:39 am on Mar 06, 2005
For African Americans you have to be careful to define your terms. Recent immigrants from Africa are actually rather successful - many of them are immigrants similar to many East Asians in that they often come as students from relatively well-off families. Immigrants from the Caribbean are also not doing badly, although less successful as a group than the Africans. Descendents of Black slaves have had the hardest time historically, and in most ways are a quite separate group with a very different history.
#10 from Joe A at 10:37 am on Mar 06, 2005
Superb, Robin! First of all: Freedom of religion (or of no religion) as mandated by the First Amendment does not appear to be a sign of tolerance among religious people, but perhaps the compromise that emerged from the rivalries among the many Protestant denominations and the majority of colonialists who were not adherents of any religion. A key point in my opinion of the success of the US: a big Republic where influences from different groups to the government cancel each other. Secondly: as you say, there is in America a religious market, where religions have to compete for adherents offering services such of help to get integrated. Sadly in Europe monopolies prevail. Third point: please, take into account the fact that a muslim in Europe may not live very far from their origin country. In summer Spanish highways are crowed by overloaded cars of muslims that drive from north Europe to the Gibraltar Strait (about 1800 miles), to board the ferries. They spent their entire holliday period with their family in Morocco or Argelia. Finally, in my opinion it is easier to become an American (not a Vanderbilt, just an standard American) than to be accepted by societies such as the Swedish or the German. (i.e: in Germany, especially if you come from a third world or east European country, you must speak perfect german, which is not easy, so when it happens the people know that that person has been embedded in the german society and culture for decades). This does not occur in all the countries, in Spain emigration and inmigration to and from Latin America and a multicultural substrate have shaped the society in a more open way.
#11 from Robin Burk at 11:53 am on Mar 06, 2005
Third point: please, take into account the fact that a muslim in Europe may not live very far from their origin country. Yes - this has two effects. First, it removes pressure to adopt a new identity in the new society to which one has immigrated. This is also a factor for many Hispanics in the U.S. And second, it has a particularly devastating effect on some girls and young women, who have in some cases endured forced marriages and sometimes honor killings during 'vacations' in the country of origin. Re: acceptance of immigrants by Europeans. My experience in Germany indicates that Germans think of national identity in quite racial terms. My wife is second-generation Korean-American, (born in Notrh Carolina while her naturalized father was at Bragg serving his adopted countrty) and she repeatedly had this exchange: German: "Where are you from?" She: "The U.S." German: "No, I mean where are you really from?" In other words, you can't be "American" unless you're white or black. I don't think that bodes well for Turks in Munich. Nor do complaints from college students that mosques don't belong in German cities. The US is lucky to be able to define identity by ideas: we're Americans, we believe in freedom, democracy, etc. These are appealing enough to convince lots of people from very different cultures to adopt them. Europe has defined identity by blood for a long time; as a fall-back, they have culture. But few immigrants are likely to think of the many historical cultural achievements of a given country as "theirs." That goes double for Muslims who don't drink wine and aren't amused by, for example, the use of Spanish mosques as cathedrals.
#13 from a at 2:52 pm on Mar 06, 2005
honor killings are AFAIK not a problem with boys but forced marriages are.
#14 from Oscar at 4:34 pm on Mar 06, 2005
Two points: Jinnderell claims that Islam is an ESS. I tend to disagree (or maybe it is just running into a dead end.) The problem with Islam is that it works best as the top dog, and lacks the ability of to peacefully co-opt other religions the way that Christianity, Hinduism and Buddhism can. I see Islam as a former ESS, which may be in big trouble in the future.
#15 from Robin Burk at 4:52 pm on Mar 06, 2005
The final part in the series is now up.
#16 from a at 5:03 pm on Mar 06, 2005
Turks are third generation at the most. So that they are still seen as foreigners is not that strange as they have still strong bands with the old country. But the Polish, who came much earlier, seem to have been integrated totally.
#17 from Joe A at 5:46 pm on Mar 06, 2005
Robin (#11): That's it. Moreover, Hispanic in the US might be luckier because they work in an economy in expansion, and new opportunities arise, if maybe not for them, for their sons and daughters. Put now all this in the context of European economic growth of 0-1% annual GDP. Lyman (#12): My experience in Germany indicates that Germans think of national identity in quite racial terms. I agree. First, because in their way of thinking everything must be correctly classified: an American with an asiatic look may prompt an error. Perhaps they haven't seen enough of them yet. Today's Germans also feel the heirs of the old tribesmen that populated the area between the Rhin and the Elbe rivers 2000 years ago. Racially they have mixed during all this time, especially with slavs, but they are still very tied to the land. In fact Rhin in German is a masculine word and Elbe is feminine, possibly the remnants of germanic godness. Something likely happens in Sweden. Next point: The US is lucky to be able to define identity by ideas: we're Americans, we believe in freedom, democracy, etc. These are appealing enough to convince lots of people from very different cultures to adopt them. I agree too. That is why becoming an American is easier than becoming a German, Swedish, French... Europe has defined identity by blood for a long time Blood? I think that is not correct. In western Europe medieval kingdoms evolved into modern States during the last 500 years. That is not a matter of blood, even in central or eastern Europe. There is no German or French race, there are simply people with common problems that agreed to join efforts. Do not extrapolate German nationalist thinking (a nation that was formed in 1870) to all Europe. [some Muslims] aren't amused by, for example, the use of Spanish mosques as cathedrals. I disagree too. On the contrary, I think they must be proud that their beautiful buildings are still there. That the Alhambra palace is today a museum visited by millions, that they were not destroyed by the christians. This is what makes the difference. In my opinion, the muslims who are worried about the use of those buildings are more concerned about revisiting the regime that built them rather than defend the ideas that preserved them.
#18 from Robert M at 7:06 pm on Mar 06, 2005
Jinnderella Your argument is nothing more institutional racism. You are forgetting that racial discrimination not ethnic discrimination against African-Americans was LEGAL policy. That type of de jure "Ghettoization" is by definition almost impossible to overcome. It can't be avoided, de facto, by learning to speak proper English or taking other steps to become more "American" for the most obvious reason skin color. You could not hide even if you were economically successful. One's economic success could disappear instantly because you had no recourse under the LAW. Many of the results of legal discrimantion still act as constraints on African-Americans whom haven't escaped the so-called ghetto. Ms.Burk mentions the Homestead Act but many of those people were run off their land. Many soldiers returning from WWII were denied the use of the GI Bill because they were simply not accepted to college because they were African-American.(It is this bill that created the huge middle-class of America). The current simplest case being joining a craft union in any Northern city of America. If you are a family member of a union employee you receive a preference to entry to apprenticeship for a start that trumps test scores. The meritocracy of ability is to often a figment of the imagination. It is a product of the unwillingness to deal with the effects of racism in America. The drug thing is beyond the pale. Take a look at the quanities of "illegal" drugs consumed in a America. When is the last time you saw an African-American arrested for importation.(People from Nigeria do not count). If the issue is use then the quanities are such that we would all be dead from use and that certainly isn't the case. Ms Burke don't forget the nine African-American children burned alive in their orphanage in July of 1863 during the Irish draft riots.
#19 from someone at 8:31 pm on Mar 06, 2005
One problem Caribbean immigrants may be having is that their kids, instead of being assimilated to mainstream American culture in the schools, are in fact picking up from their classmates some of the more self-destructive elements of urban black culture. Not all of them, but too many. At least here in NYC, anyway. Oscar, all religions are to some extent an ESS. They are only more or less "successful". Islam has severe punishments for defection, and fiercely controls interpretation of the scripture. Robert M; Many of the results of legal discrimantion still act as constraints on African-Americans whom haven't escaped the so-called ghetto. Ta, i care little for this, unless you are offering a Time Machine to go back and change everything-- I am trying to speak of proximate causes, not root causes. A good friend of mine, a black engineer in my group at work, once told me his five-year-old son has a better statistical chance of being in prison at age twenty, than of being in college. How do you change that? Slavery, religious orientation, those are root causes. I want to change the mechanism behind proximate causes, root causes are beyond my reach. The drug thing is beyond the pale.
#22 from a at 10:29 pm on Mar 07, 2005
jinnderella, geneticist? That is even worse than racist. Culture between people diverse a lot, genetics doesn't.
#23 from lurker at 1:16 am on Mar 08, 2005
A good friend of mine, a black engineer in my group at work, once told me his five-year-old son has a better statistical chance of being in prison at age twenty, than of being in college. How do you change that?There is no way the the child of an engineer, black or not, has better odds of going to prison than college. This is just not a true statement. The best predictor of a child going to college or not, is whether his parents went. This child already has a leg up.
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