Wow, that Cristian kid is one seriously smart dude to know that already.

The team was asked why they didn't have a Powerpoint deck for their technical presentation. "PowerPoint is a distraction," Cristian replied. "People use it when they don't know what to say."

Thanks for a great and inspiring story that captures a big part of what we're all about here.

Wow, armed. Thanx for the hope fix. i needed it. ;)

Joe:

Not so much smart as wise, in the the-Emperor-has-no-clothes sense. I say: These kids already have something that's more precious than any college education. They have the knowledge that they are winners; they have excelled at something. May they build on this success, come what may.

Nortius Maximus

What a terrific story about high schoolers beating out MIT. I suspect I won't be reading this in the Boston Globe. One of the few stories I've read in the past few days that's lifted me up.
I'd love to learn more about the teachers.

"This post is about the bottomless pool of human talent. And about the fact that it's everywhere - sprouting up even when it's not tended and nurtured as deeply as it should be in some places."

We all love the stories about beating the odds and the underdog championing the best of the elite or cream of the crop in what seems to be insurmountable odds. This story is more than just about that. It is about a hunger and fire that comes from within.

Are the teachers at MIT any less capable? Are the students at MIT any less capable? I don't think so. Is it complacency? Possibly. One excels when one realizes the potential benefits of doing so. I wish these students well and regardless of the odds against them concerning financial / legal issues I'll submit that as long as the fire remains within they will accomplish what they want to without intervention.

This is not a story of beating the odds. This is a story of the fire within and human spirit driving people to accomplish what they set out do.

And these kids need to go to college why exactly?

Given what I have seen recently of what passes for college education, this teachers seem to have given the kids all the education they need - there are plenty of engineers who became very well off without the distractions of college (I say this despite the fact that I graduated from an Ivy League school).

I agree with Oscar in that if you go to college expecting to receive an education you'll really be disappointed. All any institution can provide you with is a diploma, only then if you can keep the grades up and can afford the tuition and cost of textbooks.

Amazing. BUT, one case where highschool students beat out a respectable MIT college students does not warrant obviating the need for a college education.

College should teach you to learn how to learn by yourself, at the very least.

I'm with Patrick on this one. I took a lot of useless "theory" classes as an English graduate student, but they were hardly wasted time. Precisely because I found them vile and useless, I concentrated on learning all I could about philosophy, language, and aesthetics in order to argue against the "theory" I was being fed in my classes. I now know far more than I would have had I not had those classes, however painful they were at the time.

Really impressive story -- hurray for the talent!

Where was that poem by Doty published -- he sounds like someone I would like to read more of.

My mother taught at Carl Hayden High School from 1970 to 1994. When I was a teenager, some of her students were my friends. She watched the school change as described in the article. It was tough. Carl Hayden is a tough place. If there is a school shooting in Phoenix, it's probably at Carl Hayden. It's good to know that some of them are still in there trying.

I've known the depth of human talent for a long time. When I took command of a battery in the Army, the sergeants pointed out one of the soldiers and explained that he was "dumb." I watched him. He didn't ever hesitate to try, he was eager to be given something to do or work at, and he was sort of slow, mentally. Slow, but careful. "Hmmmmmm," thought I. I talked to the First Sergeant about him, and Top seemed delighted with what I wanted. We went out of our way to give him tough tasks. We gave him clear instructions, careful guidance, and got out of his way. That guy would work at what he was supposed to be doing, and make it perfect. He'd ask questions if something unexpected came up. All he wanted was to be told that he'd done a great job, which was generally true. Apparently, though, he'd rarely if ever heard such a thing. Then, he wanted the next task.

I'd rather have 2 "dumb," hard-working, careful people working for me, than 100 smart, lazy, sloppy ones.

Tony, a slightly different versaion of the poem is in Doty's book Atlantis

A.L.

When they make it, they can look forward to the left punishing them for being successfull.

I wonder if part of was helped by the fact they dont suffer the constant drumming of the white guilt trip that infects the elite schools.

To these guys, I can indentify, I too, am a geek and built gear i was certain would teach many an engineer a lesson or two in how to make something reliable while still inexpensive.

Today of course, just the 3-7,000 volt power supplies i built quite capable of poping the fuse out on the power pole ---

(did it twice, after the second show and tell with the lineman, he and a crew came out and replaced our 10,000 watt pole tranformer with a 25,000 watt pot)

--- is of the kind of thing that would bring in the swat team,, Janet Renos storm troopers would shell your house with incendary bombs.

Probably just like these guys, I could not help but notice that understanding how the universe works to the extent that working devices create themselves in the brain is a rarity, that with few welcome exceptions, your surrounded by morons.

Peyton

Give me a "slow" guy ... and with a few exceptions they can excell if you provide them with some basic tools .. even the atomic level of matter is not hard to grasp ...

Armed with the understanding that replaces magic with logic, the so called slow guy can often pass up the supposedly brighter peers at a speed that leaves them stunned by the shock wave.

Patrick and Fred-
"College should teach you to learn how to learn by yourself". Well, I learned that in High School, and it seems these kids did as well. I was not saying that college was useless, but that it did not seem necessary for THESE kids.

That is not to say they wouldn't benefit, I learned a lot in college without going to classes. And some of my classes were a huge benefit. That doesn't mean that a highly motivated kid NEEDS college.

I'm married to a highly motivated non college guy. He is very successful, and its true that without college these kids can be too.

That said, my husband has been turned away from good jobs for not having his slip of paper (only to go on and make more money anyways, but it is still always a bummer).

In regard to the Wired Magazine article:
All I have to say is that I go to Carl Hayden High School, and I was once in the robotics team. But I decided to quit after being treated as though I was less than the others on the team. After being on the team for 2 years and putting forth many hours of my time and effort, I was still not regarded as an important part of the team. Other students, who had been on the team for less time than me, and who had done virtually nothing for the team, were chosen over me to go to events and the national robotics competition. I believe I was treated less than, because of the fact that I am not of a Hispanic background. I think the teachers are trying to push the point that our school is "ghetto" and that there are mostly Hispanic students, so they don't want a bunch of white people on the team and messing up their image. Another reason is that Fredi Lajvardi resents my sister because of her decision to leave the team, so he was taking that out on me as well. For some reason, the teachers who sponsor the team and the officers of the club cannot see me for me. Instead they see me as my sister's younger sister, as a matter of fact, Dr. Allan Cameron has yet to learn my name, even after me being on the team for 2 years straight and being in his class for a whole year. Instead, he calls me (my sister's name)'s little sister.
The reason for writing this is just to inform you people that the 842 Falcon robotics team is not as great as everyone is making it out to be. I am proud of the team for all of its accomplishments throughout the past few years, but its racist and biased decisions are wrong and hurtful. In addition to this, the team has changed since I first joined. Now, all anyone can talk about is winning. Even thought the team may have won the second place award to the Chairman's Award, I believe there were other teams who were more deserving. Team 842 is supposed to be all about spreading the word of science and technology, that is why they won the award, but at heart, they really aren't. If anyone on the outside were to really see how it is in the club, its all about winning. They compete to win. I personally don't even think that they care about spreading the word of science. They have a small main group of people that are even aloud to do anything with the robot, and surprise surprise, they are all male. Cristian was even quoted in our school news paper saying that the females of the team don't really work on the robot, that they do paper work. This is true, but only because the males on the team wont let the girls anywhere near the robot. This isn't what I would call spreading the word, when they keep the actual science and technology part down to a limited few.
And just for the record, the neighborhood around our school isn't that bad, and there is only one cop on school premises, which is common in any community high school in a big city such as Phoenix.

This message is to Lodi. Lodi, I hear your side of the story and wonder what you are going to do. You are clearly hurt and angered -- even bitter -- and rightly so. BUT...will you rise above it? Will, you take the energy of hurt and channel it into the strength to overcome? That energy will propel YOU to be a winner... and there is NOTHING wrong with wanting to win! I don't know you, and you don't know me, but I was moved by your comments to encourage you to press through all this. Here's a powerful quote to munch on: "Don't ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go do that. Because what the world needs is more people who have come alive." -- Anonymous

I'm going to have to go with Lodi on this one. This team is exactly how she described it to be. I too was once on the Falcon Robotics Team and ended up quiting the team because of problems such as this. And to Mark, your right, there isn't anything wrong with wanting to win, however, the way that this team went about it was the wrong way. I remember going to Dr. Cameron along with two of my close friends as a concerned student about what was going on in the club. We explained to him that what was going on inside the club was wrong and we didn't think it was fair. You know what he said to us? These are his exact words,"It's not about whats fair, it's all about getting the money and that we win." So as far as Phelps Dodge goes and some others such as Microchip, you are mentoring, giving money to and supporting the wrong team.

I was on the the robotics team and I whole heartedly disagree with comment 18 and 20. The school is 98 percent Hispanic. The team can't help but be Hispanic! Dr. Cameron and Mr. Lajvardi always try their best to meet the needs of all the team members.They have been great to me and every body on the team, as far as I can tell. I think the team deserves everthing they have earned,and the team has lost competitions inbetween winning and have handled it just fine. They have helped many kids go to college and on scholarship. This year alone I heard they are sending six kids on scholarship. They are doing a great job.They are a great team and I was glad to be a part of it. The neighborhood is that bad, all I have to say is remember the Subway shootings! Oh and sometimes there are two cop cars. I am a girl and I got to work on the robot. I don't know who you two people that are upset are, but I just don't see what you are talking about. Sorry.

There are so many talented people out there but because of no financial possibilities they get pushed around and neglected for others that had the means to follow the courses of a college even if that doesn't reflect their talent.