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May 21, 2005New Energy Currents: 05-20-2005by John Atkinson at May 21, 2005 2:50 AM
[JK: Originally posted May 20th. Moved up to the 21st because it also fits our "Good News Saturdays" theme.] As the US energy bill is being written in the Senate, the debate over our energy future is in full swing. Hydrogen fuel cells, or "gas optional" hybrids? Nuclear, or not? Coal... or not? As these different technologies begin to compete in earnest for your attention, acceptance, and tax dollars, New Energy Currents does its best to give you a broad overview of developments in energy science, technology, and policy. By John Atkinson, of chiasm.
As always, please send any links, tips, questions, and (especially) hottt gossip to newenergy - at - windsofchange.net - see you next month. Tracked: May 20, 2005 4:08 PM
Energy from The Loudest Cricket
Excerpt: John Atkins at Winds Of Change is tracking developments in energy. Check out the latest here. Lots of interesting links....
Tracked: May 20, 2005 5:35 PM
Energy Briefing from The Opinionated Bastard
Excerpt: Right or Left, knowing the facts about alternative energy is a must. Here’s the latest briefing from Winds of Change I’ll say it again though, if it was practical, it wouldn’t be “alternative” it would be “energy...
Tracked: May 21, 2005 10:47 PM
Lose-Lose from Crumb Trail
Excerpt: One of the win-win methods to reduce biodiversity loss cited in the previous post, UNocrat Gloom, was eliminating the use of agricultural land for bio-fuels. Ecologists worry about the increasing need for food and fiber as world population continues...
Tracked: May 22, 2005 1:24 PM
Interesting thought... from Milblog
Excerpt: Build power reactors underground? The Ergosphere has some thoughts on this. Would it be cost effective and practical? For more on alternative energy proposals, check out: Winds of Change.NET: New Energy Currents: 05-20-2005 J....
Tracked: May 23, 2005 12:42 PM
NEW ENERGY CURRENTS AT WINDS OF CHANGE from Knowledge Problem
Excerpt: Michael Giberson John Atkinson has posted the May edition of New Energy Currents, his monthly roundup of energy technology and policy commentary found on the web. This post, one of the features at Winds of Change, presents the best scan...
Tracked: May 28, 2005 3:42 AM
Some Fellow Optimists from Classical Values
Excerpt: If you read Winds Of Change regularly, you may have come across the work of John Atkinson. He's the fellow who compiles their monthly feature "New Energy Currents"and he makes a pretty good job of it too. I haven't missed...
Tracked: December 24, 2005 12:04 AM
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Comments
Don't forget Biodiesel on your list. Refined from soy, rapeseed, or canola with lye and methanol, Biodiesel can run modern diesel engines without modification. Methanol can be derived from methane reclaimed from landfills and the vegetable oil can be reclaimed from restaurant fryers. There is potential here, especially with snorty diesel powerplants like the twin turbo BMW 535d. About nuclear: why not go to pebble-bed reactors? The technology is about 50 years old, the design is paractically fail-safe (if it gets too hot, it shuts down because of the way the reaction works). It's not water-cooled. The radioactive bits are pre-sealed. Did you ever read "Clean Coal, Dirty Air"? The problem with co-generation is what to do with the heat in the summer.
#5 from Savage at 11:50 pm on May 20, 2005
For another possible technology (which appears to be in actual production right now), see this While it might not "solve" the total US problem, implementing it world-wide (and it could be attractive world-wide) would hugely reduce the demand for the stuff from the ground. I'm still not entirely sure whether it will "work" or not (whether it is viable, economically sound, etc.). I figure we'll know for sure when either some "enviro-nuts" start protesting it for some obscure reason (which means it will work), or the company starts begging for guberment "R&D $$$" (which means it won't). Savage
#6 from TexasGal at 4:37 am on May 21, 2005
I agree with Mike in #2. I think it is real a waste of resources to use oil to generate electricity. Nuclear ala pebble is our best choice. We will never get Americans out of their cars. So our immediate move should be towards moving electric off of oil.
#7 from Joe A at 12:54 pm on May 21, 2005
Mike, the South Africans are building a new unit, I think 100 MWe. I agree with you, it is a very clever design, but I see a drawback: gas cooled reactors are bigger, that is, more expensive, than water cooled reactors. The answer to energy problems in the developed world is Nuclear Energy indeed. New designs in reactors are coming. Don't forget also very high temperature ones (more than 900ºC) that can produce directly hydrogen from water. About Biodiesel: Italian government got very angry a few weeks ago when many drivers in the Trieste region, seeing the rise in oil prices, bought rape oil and poured it into their diesel cars. The authority threathened to treat them as tax infractors. Auto makers said that rape oil may shorten the life of injectors and the fuel pump, but it works. Joe A, you should not confuse vegetable oil with biodiesel. Biodiesel is the methyl or ethyl esters of fatty acids, while vegetable oil is 3 fatty acids attached to a glycerol backbone ("triglyceride"). Biodiesel is produced by "transesterification", the conversion of the glyceryl ester to methyl or ethyl ester. The glycerol is a byproduct of the process. TexasGal, the US uses very little oil for electricity; production from oil peaked in 1978 and has never come near that figure again. For historical data, see http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/txt/ptb0802a.html. There is currently a small rise in oil consumption for generation, mostly due to the high cost of natural gas. M. Simon (#4): just don't run the cogenerators in the summer (the Honda-engine CHP unit is only about 21% efficient anyway). Problem solved. Savage (#5): CWT's process may be a good alternative to other waste-disposal methods, but it remains to be seen if there is enough feedstock to supplant (rather than supplement) other fuels. If the feedstock has positive value (turkey guts are valuable as animal feed), thermal depolymerization has trouble competing with fossil fuel. ken (#1): There isn't enough land in the USA to grow enough oilseed crops to meet US demand for diesel fuel, let alone all petroleum products. Biodiesel is a good thing (especially when produced from waste such as grease-trap sludge), but it's not a one-stop solution.
#9 from Joe A at 3:55 pm on May 21, 2005
Engineer-Poet (#8) you should not confuse vegetable oil with biodiesel Touché. Anyways, the stocks of rape oil in Trieste exhausted pretty quickly, with great sadness of Italians.
#10 from TexasGal at 6:18 pm on May 21, 2005
Engineer-Poet Thanks for the table you provided in #8. I still think the use of oil to generate electricity is a waste of resources when there are so many other ways. E-P, Summer is when you need the electricity the most. Wind tends to peak in most places in the winter. Of course if you need a pool heater and didn't want to use solar the cogenerator might be a good option.
#12 from Joe A at 8:04 pm on May 21, 2005
M Simon, moreover, wind energy is expensive (8.4 cents vs 3 cents nuke in spot market) and difficult to pour into the grid. Free your mind, the answer is Nuclear, it has always been. There is no energetic problem, he have created it rejecting nuclear power. Sooner or later we'll come back.
M. Simon says:
Summer is when you need the electricity the most.Depends where you are; I seem to recall that Minnesota's demand peaks are in winter. I found this with a quick search. That's fine. Cogeneration can meet winter electric demand and slash (or eliminate) the need for gas-fired electricity during those periods. Anything that relieves demand on gas supplies will reduce prices and eliminate need for LNG terminals. Summer demand peaks are from air conditioning. Electric-driven compression refrigeration is not the only way to run an air conditioner; if users paid the real cost of meeting their peak demands, there would probably be a large market for solar-heated absorption chillers. Collectors big enough to run a building's A/C would be able to meet the DHW demand almost as an afterthought; that's another load currently satisfied by electricity or natural gas.Wind tends to peak in most places in the winter.That's fine too. It can be used to meet heating demands. TexasGal (#11), if you are looking for waste, you don't have to look far. When I was in Texas I noticed that every apartment I saw had an electric water heater. Someone mined lignite to burn in a furnace to make heat to generate steam to drive a turbine to turn a generator to make electricity to run over wires to go to the water heater where it was... turned into heat again, but with about 70% losses. Meanwhile, sunlight pounded heat down on roofs which were sometimes just an arm's length away. Most Texans are paying good money for something they could get for free. How's that for sad?
#15 from TexasGal at 2:13 am on May 22, 2005
Engineer-Poet, That must have been some trip for you to have visited every apartment in Texas. Then you will be delighted to hear that during the hottest summer months in Texas we don't need the hot water heaters, we just turn on the cold water tap where the water is heated by the ground. In most places in Texas where the soil is mostly clay they do have electric heating and cooking, but for the most part I'd venture to say that most heating in Texas is natural gas. There are places in Texas that use solar energy for heating, but then again it's not unusual for many places in Texas to have no sun for days if not weeks. TexasGal: I only spoke for the ones I saw. They all happened to be on either the south or south-west of Austin, and I made no claim that they constituted a representative sample. I do claim that they exemplify something that probably should not be. I found the hot "cold" water to be almost as irritating as the habit of swimming pools to get to bathwater temperatures. It is no wonder to me that Barton spring in Austin is such a popular swimming site. It feels to me as if we're moving from an era when energy alternatives were pretty cut-and-dried to one in which there will be many contending alternative: coal-to-liquid, coal gasification, biomass, nuclear, wind, et al...and that many of these will coexist until technologies mature and the market sorts it all out. Seems like something is likely to work out pretty well, in which case it's probably not wise to bet on $100/bbl oil.
#18 from a at 2:14 am on May 23, 2005
The market doesn't sort out. It let's every economical solution survive just like we now have hydro, gas and coal plus those energy sources that life of the state David Foster: I would bet on $100/bbl oil (light, sweet) before $20/bbl oil. Just because alternatives to oil are developing does not mean that they will arrive either soon enough or in enough volume to prevent large price spikes. Big volume requires big money, and the big money is going to wait until it is assured of a good return. That looks likely to come, because the supply of light sweet crude is probably peaking now and the refinery capacity to use lots of heavy and/or sour crude doesn't exist. Engineer-Poet (#8) The process, thermal-depolymerization, can use much more than turkey guts and the like. Tires and plastic for one. Paper for another. What matters is the carbon content. And one could always produce new feedstock (kudzu plantations anybody? :) ). If the feedstock is contaminated in some many said contamination is segregated out, and the resulting products could even been sold. No more need to segregate aluminum at the curb. I can see people being paid by oil producers for their garbage and trash. The day may come when we'll be hunting down old municipal dumps for oil mining. While old farmland and ranches are put back into production to produce organic matter to add to the stream. "The fruit tastes like shit, but the plant as a whole can be processed into one sweet crude." :)
I expect that to happen, esp. the reclaiming of landfills for other uses. Unfortunately it's not going to yield enough fuel to meet current (let alone future) needs for a number of reasons:
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