I may get roasted for this but let me be the first to point out the elephant in the room.

All these defects add up to islam as it has been practiced for the greater part of its history beginning with mohammed the original Arab strong man.

Of course, to be fair I must exclude those "golden" time periods when islam was sucking dry new host cultures and appropriating their creative and intellectual and spiritual achievements for itself to bolster the myth (which again began with mo) that it is the summation of human history and therefore has the god given right to take for itself, by force most often, the best of all human culture. At these times it was the best it could ever be but given the whole of islamic history these periods are the exception rather than the rule and they always have suffered the fate that all parasites do once the host was bled dry.

The problem is islam as it has been known for most of its history and it must be the first thing subjected to criticism since it cannot be exonerated from the role it has played in forming these cultures. The first thing the Arab world must do is stop the practice of almost insane denial that islam is responsible for only what is good about Arab culture and islamic history and is responsible for none of the things that are grossly wrong. Muslims have to forsake the false myth that their problems stem from pre-islamic cultural relics which somehow managed to completely defy and resist and overpower the all powerful spiritual force of islam. Its bullshit thinking and I don't see this guy facing up to it at all. He's blaming culture as if islam had nothing at all to do with that culture, as if islam hadn't failed in some respects to change that culture and in others entrenched those cultural elements to the point where they are as unquestionable and immune from criticism as the faith itself. It was Islam that elevated much of Arab culture to the status of religious truth in the first place and any reform of Arab culture must begin there. There is no alternative and anyone who thinks so is still living in Arab/muslim la la land.

Peggy,

The core structure of Islam is definitely part of the problem. Bernard Lewis offers deeply learned and eloquent explanations of why and how specific elements of Islamic doctrine and Arab culture have conspired to date in order to thwart past reform attempts through the ages.

Self-criticism is definitely part of breaking that steady downward spiral - and with Islam at war to varying degrees with at least 4 other civilizations, it may even be a survival imperative over the long term.

I commend to you very highly the works of 'muslim refusenik' Irshad Manji. Great, honest writings, very nice woman in person.

The single most important philosophical idea that Christianity gave Europe is 'give to Caesar what is Caesar's'. It was that duality that allowed the dynamic between nobility and clergy that is nonexistant in many cultures, particularly Islam. Although not all Muslim nations followed the rule, Islam teaches that the men closest to Allah are de facto the most qualified to rule. There is no seperation between understanding the Qu'ran and knowing how to run a society, because they are supposed to be the same thing. Christianity has in its founding an understanding that ones duty to go and country are not always the same, and a great saint might not be a great king or general and vice versa. There could have been no Reformation without nobility, and hence no Enlightenment. The natural check on the Papacy power is what Islam never had, and hence the competition that helped Europe out of the Dark Ages.

Any one or two of those twenty would be almost fatal to any attempt to cope with modern reality, I think. Your faith in ability to change is touching, but it sounds like a long, bloody project, to me.

I nevertheless have some hope that an explosion of democratic self-expression and economic power in Iraq will burn away much of the mental debris.

Of those twenty points, many are also applicable to modern leftists (like at the ACLU, The Nation, MoveOn.org, NYT, NAMBLA, etc.)

Hence, a convergence in the ideologies of leftists and Muslims.

Still, Mark, during its heyday the RCC burned heretics at the stake and conducted religious wars... it was the de facto power.

Rabbi Chanina, the Deputy High Priest, says: Pray for the welfare of the government, for were it not for the fear of it, people would swallow each other alive.

I don't think any religion is essentially evil, they are all ESSs with a varying degree of success in their strategy sets. The things that Hegy points out all contribute to the stabilty, the organic unity of Islam--they all evolved as strategies to preserve that.

Peggy,

Yes, very true. One just has to note that 15 Muslims are killed by other Muslims over a rumor that a Koran was 'abused'.

How many Americans riot when the US flag is burned, even though this happens again and again and again.

I find that virtually no Muslim, even a successful professional in the US, can even consider any flaws in Islam. They cannot admit at all that 9/11 was morally wrong, or that the beheading of innocents by terrorists on videotape is actually worse than Koran dropping. They just cannot view their own actions as wrong, no matter how reprehensible they may be.

And what is their 'brand' as a culture?

For Indians, it is software, snakecharmers, elephants. For the swiss, it is watches and cheese. For Brazilians, it is soccer and beaches and dance. For the Japanese, it is electronics and cars ans sushi and sumo wrestling.

For Muslims? It is the killing of innocents. What comes to mind when you think of one?

That is their brand.

Nailed it in one take. Allow the gates of ijtihad to reopen and maybe, just maybe, the Muslim world stands a chance of surviving.

Interesting article via Instapundit

"Conservative Islam is the foundation of Islamic radicalism, which is Islam carried to a murderous extreme. This movement is weakening in the place where it originated; Saudi Arabia....."

I'm sure Mr. Heggy, whose rip on the Saudi Wahabbis for wanting to turn Muslims into flower haters remains one of the most perfect "nail-it-in-one" descriptions I've read, will be pleased.

Still, long way to go there. And we have to save them for last or almost last, even though they're a big part of the problem.

Sigh. I get the idea of serving revenge cold - I just hate the damn waiting time....

I agree with Peggy that Heggy has failed to bring in the spiritual/existential/transcendental dimension of Islam into the equation in an adequate manner.

He is well advised to view Islam as a self-referential system of memes that can explain and lead to a large number of his 20 points. Therefore as noted, unless this dimension is addressed in itself, we will be unable to address many of the shortcomings of the Arab mind.

Yes. Islam is the answer. Not 'Arabs'.

Pakistanis and Afghan Taliban Pashtuns are not Arabs. Chechen terrorists of the Beslan massacre were not Arabs. Abu Sayef terrorists in the Philipines are not Arabs. Yet all are Muslims.

Lebanese Christians ARE Arabs, but not Muslims, and do no terror. Hindus in Pakistan are not Muslims and do no terror.

snaps! you guys...........all religions, all governments begin their evolution as a means of preventing homosapiens from swallowing each other. Mr. Heggy's delineation is swell, but what exactly do we do about it? I mean, duh! Of course Islam is the problem-- what did you think it was, genetics?

I am tired of everyone telling me how awful Islam is--sheesh, don't take it so personal. Islam is a religious organization basically interested in survival (by transmitting and preserving its memetic code) and growth (reps, thru reproduction and conversion).

Instead try to find chinks and cracks to insert ideaviruses to change it.

Mohammed basically hijacked the relatively benign Bedouin culture (those people fought inter-tribal warfare with poetry for cripessake), stripped out all the wine, women and song, and amped it up with a dose of monotheism that he purloined from the christians and jews. heh. Mohammed, the meme kleptarch.

It seems to me, that the best way to "reform" Islam, would be to somehow put back the wine, women, and song part. Is it doable? ;)

It seems to me, that the best way to "reform" Islam, would be to somehow put back the wine, women, and song part. Is it doable?

What was said to the rose that made it open was said to me here in my chest.

What was told the cypress that made it strong
and straight, what was

whispered the jasmine so it is what it is, whatever made
sugarcane sweet, whatever

was said to the inhabitants of the town of Chigil in
Turkestan that makes them

so handsome, whatever lets the pomegranate flower blush
like a human face, that is

being said to me now. I blush. Whatever put eloquence in
language, that's happening here.

The great warehouse doors open; I fill with gratitude,
chewing a piece of sugarcane,

in love with the one to whom every that belongs!

Rumi
as translated by Coleman Barks

famous lurker, that is so cool!
this is one of my favorites--

Bid Hurayra farewell.
The riders are departing.
Can you, man that you are,
bear bidding farewell?

Brow aglow, hair flowing,
A gleam from the side teeth as she smiles,
She walks gently as a gazelle,
tender-hoofed in wet soil.

As if her walk
from the tent of a neighbor
were the gliding of a cloud
neither slow nor hurried.

You hear her anklets whisper
as she turns away
like cassia rustling
suppliant in the breeze.

Al-Asha

See? her hair is loose, you can see her ankles, she has power! Later in the poem it says, "she is the disease, she the cure".

Here is a drinking song..

I could well see the drinkers.
Among them a ringing lyre,
men laid low
by golden foaming wine.

The drink of a potentate,
aged by tavernkeepers
for a special occasion.
It'll take you up and spin you around.

For the headache it's a cure.
A jolt of it won't harm you.
No dizziness from it
will mix in your brain.

Alqama, Michaels Sells translation.

Heggy says:
6. Deep feelings of inequality with others in terms of results and achievements makes for a sense of inadequacy that is sublimated into an exaggerated and unfounded pride;

7. A tendency to indulge in excessive self-praise and to glorify past achievements as a way of escaping our dismal reality;

Exploiting these two principles, couldn't a renaissance in traditional beduoin poetry be used to incubate some beneficial ideaviruses in Islamic culture?

I don't think Islam will change, I'm just pessimistic.

Islam has not changed in contact and conflict with the West and the East (Budhism, Confucianism, and Hinduism). As noted, they have borrowed for a time a few elements, but the essential elements of open-ness and the notion of "progress" remain anathema.

I don't expect much to change. As long as Islam can blame the Jews, Americans, etc. the forces in that society will never face a Meggido epiphany, such as Kemal Ataturk's understanding that it was the society behind the British Army that made them so deadly and successful (compared to the Sultan's forces).

Currently, Islamists feel "just one more" atrocity and terrorist attack can "break us." This view must change in order for Islam to accept the modern world with it's joys and challenges.

Germany and Japan has the same problem too, I hope we don't have the situation where Berlin and Tokyo had to lie in ruins for the idea that Western modernism beat fascism or militarism.

Jinn,
You got what I was trying to say. Islam carries within it the roots of tolerance. There is no monolithic Islam, as much as many of it's adherents wish it to be so.

I work at a company that brings in many co-ops and interns. One of the recent co-ops, who is from Pakistan, is without a doubt one of the nicest, most considerate persons that I have ever met. Truely.

He's a devout Muslim and went around the corner to a small mosque for all the required prayers. When his father was visiting, he brought him around to meet everyone. There is nothing to fear from him and much to admire.

Let us keep this in mind whenever the thought occurs to lump all Muslims in with the Islamists.

Whabism has been growing at an increasing pace for well over 100 years. It is not likely to recede in a shorter time. So the future will be difficult, but not immpossible and there remains reasons for much hope. Isn't the future ever such?

P.S. Jinn, that first poem is great. I feel like that every day when I have to leave my sweetie and every evening is like the reunion.

Awwwhhh! that is so sweet....
Lurker, Hurayrah means "kitten" in arabic. That is one of my very favorites too. ;)

Islam carries within it the roots of tolerance.

the problem is exposing that tolerance...and i agree, that viewing Islam as a totalitarian package is unhelpful, and i don't approve of castigating the majority of muslims for not standing up to the fundamentalists. Does forced conversion ever work? Look at all the christian martyrs.

i think we need better psyops.

Lurker, your sweet Pakistani co-op -- if he knew his father was raising money to donate to Al-Queda, or he overheard a couple of un-sweet Muslims around the corner at his mosque plotting to blow up something, would he turn them in? He, personally, may be a sweet and charming human being, but until "average Muslims" start to recognize and do something about the radicals, to me they are just as big a part of the problem as the actual blower-uppers.

nahncee, You're right. It's even possible that his niceness is a deception. Excuse me if I continue to like and respect him until he gives me reason not to.

We are not the keeper of any other man's conscience or privy to the thoughts in his mind. There is no possible evidence that could answer your indictment. It truly holds people guilty until proven innocent.

Jinn: Still, Mark, during its heyday the RCC burned heretics at the stake and conducted religious wars... it was the de facto power.

Jihad begot the Crusades

The Crusades as an historical phenomenon were a reaction to events resulting from over 450 years of previous jihad campaigns.

At the close of the 11th century, particularly after the crushing Byzantine defeat by the Seljuk Turks at Manzikert in 1071, Christendom, including Europe, was under existential threat by a confluence of Muslim advances.

To the West, the Almoravid Berber Muslim tribes drove into Spain and pushed northward, pillaging and massacring the Christian populations they encountered.

In the East, following their victory at Manzikert, the Seljuks put Armenia to fire and sword, and within a decade they had conquered three-fourths of Asia Minor.

Finally, in the Holy Land (i.e., Palestine) itself, the Muslim yoke under the Seljuks had become particularly onerous for the indigenous Christian (and Jewish) population, as well as Christian pilgrims.

Both the native and pilgrim populations were subjected to forced conversions, kidnappings, and murder in an atmosphere of overall insecurity for the life and property of non-Muslims.

Michael the Syrian, the 12th century Jacobite patriarch of Antioch, reproducing earlier contemporary sources in his famous Chronicle, summarized the prevailing conditions for Christians in Palestine, as follows ......

As the Turks were ruling the lands of Syria and Palestine, they inflicted injuries on Christians who went to pray in Jerusalem, beat them, pillaged them, levied the poll tax at the gate of the town and also at Golgotha and the [Holy] Sepulchre; and in addition, every time they saw a caravan of Christians, particularly of those from Rome and the lands of Italy, they made every effort to cause their death in diverse ways. And when countless people had perished as a result, the kings and counts were seized with [religious] zeal and left Rome; troops from all these countries joined them, and they came by sea to Constantinople [First Crusade (1096-99)].

The late Jacques Ellul’s penetrating analysis of the jihad [20] argued convincingly that in fact,

…the idea of a holy war is a direct product of the Muslim jihad. If the latter is a holy war, then obviously the fight against Muslims to defend or save Christianity has also to be a holy war. The idea of a holy war is not of Christian origin. Emperors never advanced the idea prior to the appearance of Islam.

In otherwords ,,, if you fight back, if you defend yourself, your a crusader.

Jim Rockford: Contrast to the UK where home invasion robberies/rape/torture is the norm, and there is no right to resist (people who do so go to jail, the UK explicitly denies the right to self defense). Recently, the Home Minister in the run up to the election gave a speech to the populace exhorting them to essentially "lie back and think of England" when confronted by home invaders intent on rape.

Or the man kept in prison for defending his home as a Danger to burglars

More leftist history, you are repeating leftist history, leftist lies. its the doctrine of brainwashing of self hate ...

Here is a clue ,,, every movie made after the commies took over hollywood, and since they rewrote the textbooks to trash western culture,, is a leftist lie.. .. ohh they might have a few facts and dates correct, but it tells a story that never was.

And one of the biggest LIES .. Lies .. is the rolling about in self hate and guilt trip over the crusades.

Arabs did have a culture of tolerance, but that ended with the promulgation of Islam.

Gates of Vienna

This conflict of cultures has endured for more than a millenium. The first wave began with the conquest of Mecca by Mohammed in 630 CE. It crested in Al Andalus (Moorish Spain) in 711, only receding in 1492 when Los Reyes Católicos entered Granada.

The second wave began when Osman raided Western Byzantium in 1299 and founded the Ottoman Empire. It crested during the reign of Süleyman I in the 16th century, and receded after the failure of the second siege of Vienna under Kara Mustafa in 1683.

From our perspective at the dawn of the 21st century it is hard to realize that a little more than three centuries ago the whole of Christian civilization was threatened. When the Turks stood at the Gates of Vienna it seemed that all of Europe would be overrun by the legions of the Prophet.

Im all done with the wallowing in guilt and self loathing, I feel cheated by the leftist version of history, we have created the greatest Civilisation that has ever been, and im not talking about books and gadjets, but even that, is the product of our culture.

And im all over and done with the self hate indoctrination about the crusades,, As Paul Harvey might put it, now I have the rest of the story.

If it was NOT for the crusades, our Civilsation would not exist. it would have been, like all that Jihad wrought, put to the sword and the flame.

Lurker - being myself a Muslim from the M.E., I have little faith that Sufism would be a tolerant substitution for Islam. Sufism itself is quite suspect and there is nothing to be gained for a society to believe in "higher superstition" - no matter how "spiritual" it may come across. If you want spiritualism, then instead of reading Rumi - who I understand accepts Islam and Mohammad - you should take a shot of Serotonin, a neurochemical for the brain that makes people highly spiritual.

There is no difference between an injection of serotonin and reading Rumi poetry. Both are based on illusion and we cannot build societies and institutions based on non-scientific illusions and "higher" superstitions.

Rumi and his Masnavi belongs to the rubbish bin in the same manner that the Koran belongs to it. Unless of course you want to look at it purely as poetry and literature. Otherwise to push it as a religion or an answer to our spiritual and existential questions is so disingenious and backward.

Also, there is no chance that Islam will reform into Sufism. Islam deals with community. While Sufism does not. Islam will not willingly give up its social existence.

moradali

I agree It can look grim ....

It took well over 1000 years before Martin Luther and the Christian reformation.

However, once the church and political power became seperate, things happened quickly, the Christian church in all its veriety stand for the power of their ideas not the rule of the sword.

There is hope, and we in the west can be an optimistic lot, and look for the betterment of man where we can find it.

Turkey is a democracy, Iraq is a new one, and in Kuwait Women now have the right to vote.

Democracies tend to focus Inward, and there is no reason the land of Islam cannot have what we have.

Which is what make Iraq, so important.

They know the pain and suffering of tyranny as well as any people do, and so far, it looks like they understand where they need to take themselves.

They can be another example to the whole region. that things can be better.

Raymond - 21st century Internet time is 100 times faster than Dark Ages time. If it took Christianity 500 years to reform, it should take Christianity 25 years today. So where are the signs of reformation with Islam. Absolutely no serious indicators.

Even though I share your optimism, we can see that Islam is fighting tooth and nail in Iraq to prevent it going down the road of democracy. For Islam, this is literally a matter of life and death. No ideology has faced so much at stake, and no ideology has willingly given up so much.

Islam has to be confronted. It will not reform in itself. It is simply incapable of. Christianity was not a highly communal religion complete with its own immutable laws on each and every aspect of himan life, including military and political life. Islam is. You cannot compare apples to oranges.

Democracy is anathema to Islam. Hopefully, Iraq will be the watershed event. But the jury is not in yet.

moradali

Everything you said rings true

Perhaps you can take some solace that there are many here in the USA, that understand how important this is, for the people in Iraq, and for us.

Their future is our future .. we cannot fail .. only in success is there any hope, both for them, and for the rest of us.

Lebanese Christians ARE Arabs, but not Muslims, and do no terror.

I assume you mean this as a joke.

moradali,
I have no interest in holding up Sufism as a replacement or an improvement of Islam. I was trying to point out that Islam is not a monolithic block of identical beliefs.

Somehow, Islam of the 1200's had room for Sufism and Rumi. Even today Islam has many variations. This is true even though most Muslims insist there is only one true Islam.

Now WRT to Rumi... wisdom can be found in many places. I enjoy his poetry from time to time and there ARE insights to be found in it. Feelings induced from drugs will never have the same power as these insights and understandings. The feelings of connectedness and oneness, to which I believe you are referring, are distinct from the knowledge.

What you suggest with the serotonin is akin to eating synthetic food that has all the flavor or a fine meal, but none of the nutrition.

moradali, you don't sound like a mohammedan.

After 9/11, an arab imam and a member of the muslim brotherhood told a Xian gathering in my town at a Presbyterian church (after refusing to participate in a group prayer) that "islam is a complete way of life, a religious, cultural, social and political system", that it was the last and final revelation from allah (who is really the same as the Xian god) for ALL people and that the koran was perfect and immutable and, of course, islam is the religion of peace.

After the dawah talk was over, I felt like taking a shower to rid me of the dirt. Later I found out that the imam has ties to al-qaeda and the muslims of the americas. That is what these 20 "defects" intertwined with mohammedanism lead to, enemies in our midst who lie and encourage murder and mayhem to further their cause.

I love it that the Iranians want to be identified as Persian and feel insulted when you mistake them for arabs. However, until they throw off the yoke of mohammedanism, this will be their fate, for one has to accept arab imperialism along with everything else in the mohammedan way of life.

So you met a true believer of a faith. Guess what, they are obnoxious. Doesn't matter if they are Presbyterian, communists or muslims because every true believer will be obnoxious if he holds a different faith than you

rereading it may come away that it is because of your faith but that was not what i meant. The problem with real believers are just that they are obnoxious. They are often obnoxious even if you hold the same faith

a.
The true believer that I met is not obnoxious. I'm pretty much a heathen and the many Christian and Jewish true believers haven't been obnoxious either. I think your theory that true believers are obnoxious is demonstratably invalid... perhaps with Raymond being the exception.

moradali,

I can't believe that I agree with a ( self described) muslim about Sufism and their poetry. I have tried to say it as well and as briefly as you have and have failed. Bravo. That is the very reason why I am unimpressed with the Sufis. It seems to me to be the islamic version of unitarianism. It is no answer because it is dependent on practical islam and exists partly in opposition to it. Take away the practical system of islam and sufism blows away on the breeze and dissapates.

But are you really a muslim or do you describe yourself as such because that is your culture but not your belief? Just curious.

Peggy - you are absolutely right, Islam is an ethos and that is my upbringing. Being a Muslim I guess is not same as being a Mohammedan. Once one is born into something, it is very hard to get out of it. Woe is the man who drops his religion just to pick up another religion (Sufism). From the pothole into the well.

I have seen Sufis up close and I am extrememly nonplussed. Where I live, there is this "master Sufi" - a fairly well known "scholar of Sufism" who conducts classes on Rumi (mainly for the bourgeoisie). And guess what. The "morids" (meme infected followers) have no right to question anything about anything. He runs the class as a concentration camp. I have been to it and if you question any of the metaphysical, spiritual, or sociopolitical tenets, you are immediately discharged.

Sufism is more like a groupthink network for those lost souls who cannot face reality - except in a group support social and economic setting. Some call it a cult.

Sufism is for small minds.

And thanks for your kindness.