Actually, first there were no "rioters" in Los Angeles (post-Rodney King).
But now there are no "looters" in New Orleans. Some of the AP photos moving on the wire tonight do use the word. But as the night goes on there are fewer and fewer of that sort. And more and more like this:"People remove items from a Winn-Dixie store in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2005."[Visible in the car are a whole lot of power tools, motor oil, and a big cooler]
"A man pulls two carts filled with various items in parking lot at a Super Wal-Mart in the Garden district in New Orleans on Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2005. Hurricane Katrina hit the city Monday causing massive flooding and power outages."
"People remove items from a closed Foot Action store at the intersection of Bourbon and Canal streets after floodwaters rose in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, Tuesday, Aug., 30, 2005, in New Orleans."[bicycles, clothing ....]
"Persons remove goods from a closed Super Wal-Mart in the Garden District of New Orleans, Tuesday, Aug. 30,2005."
"People remove items from a Winn-Dixie store in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2005."Among the odd coincidences, as of right now I'm not finding any of these online.
So there are no "looters", just "removers" ?
Drudge seems to have several links to articles that mention looting.
Remember the Simpsons episode in which the power goes out, and everyone begins looting INSTANTLY?
T.J.: I'm seeing "looting" in some AP articles, but their photographers or photo editors are going out of their way to avoid the word.
Interestingly, CNN was just running several video segments featuring looting.
Every one of them grinning like they were at a party.
If I had to try to get into the heads of the photo desk people, the difference may be that the news article writer is dealing with the indisputable fact of "looters." But the photograph shows specific people, easily identifiable. And the editor in charge seems to be hesitant to imply "this man is a looter" -- even if he's pushing two shopping carts full of power tools out of a closed but busted open department store. Fear of litigation? Or is it a function of the fact that all the people who appear to be looting in all the AP's photos I mentioned were, to all appearances, non-caucasian. I suspect there's a sensitivity fear at work. At least, that certainly would be the case if it was my own editors in charge there.
New Orleans is being destroyed, really-- who the f--k cares about political correctness?
Callimachus, why don't you go ahead and update the post and put your comment #5 on there-- I'm sure that's what you were itching to say all along.
(Nice pickup there, Joe.)
Tonight their running around with guns... Are these The Big Easy Freedom Fighters???
AubreyJ………
If any good comes out of this, it will be some long overdue attention to the problem of New Orleans.
I'm getting tired of hearing the newsmongers burble about "The Big Easy". It isn't the Big Easy any more, it's the Murder Capital of the United States. It's the Big Chalk Outline, maybe.
Forgive my cynicism, but aren't the owners of those looted stores, and yes some are being looted, going to lose to the flood what is being lost to the thieves? I saw people walking off with loads of wet clothes, and food. Who was going to buy it after the flood? And to be a little more cynical, can you envision the insurance claim?
No, I don't approve. But I suspect that 'on the streets' there is a realization that flood loss claims are going to cover a good proportion of their goodies.
In Iraq we're paying for losses of equipment that is being declared surplus or damaged, and essentially given away, a classic military scam that put Billy Sol Estes in jail in Lubbock, TX in the '50's.
Thank you Ruth for your casual attitude to the disposing of the property of others.
What mystifies me is: why would you steal electronic equipment (TV's, computers, etc.) that (a) is unusable because there's no power, and (b) will probably be irreparably damaged by floodwater before the power returns? Food, clothing, diapers, even jewelry - I can see the practical value there, legal issues aside. But of what possible value is a waterlogged 24" TV?
Could we at least wait until the dead bodies are retrieved from the streets before we start talking about the problems with New Orleans and it's brown people?
I hate to label this purely a racist post. But what? No mention of the looting going on in Gulfport, Biloxi, and elsewhere?
Davebo, there's no mention whatsoever of race in this post even by implication.
Ruth, would the looting of a hospital or a pharmacy be understandable? The supplies stolen or damaged by the looting might be desperately needed later on. How do you draw the line? Is some looting excuseable and other not?
Callimachus,
This morning's NBC Today infotainment show was quite plain-spoken. The video was of looters at a Wal-Mart, a Walgreen's, and some Quick-e-Marts. The L-word was used in the accompanying voiceovers.
This post and the comments prompted further thoughts here.
Gov. Landrieu's televised suggestion to "pray" wasn't a bad one. One of mine is that state and federal officials aren't so overwhelmed by the immediate and awful that they neglect the longer-range challenges. The most perilous one is novel, and concerns the misbehaving folks we are seeing in downtown New Orleans, their offscreen non-antisocial neighbors, and the 10,000 cooped in the Superdome. They are about to become evacuated refugees.
Evacuated to where?
Dave, read the authors comment.
"Or is it a function of the fact that all the people who appear to be looting in all the AP's photos I mentioned were, to all appearances, non-caucasian."
In retrospect, I suppose it's asking a legitimate question and I may have been unfair.
Sure in the case of clothing and damaged goods they're stealing from insurance companies, not the store owners themselves. The insurance companies would have taken ownership of those goods and disposed of them at a discount. (Or the store would have sold them at a discount and claimed only the difference between that and their cost.)
But the insurance companies get their money from the original owners. If the storm caused $x billion dollars of damage and the looters increased that by an extra y% then the amount the insurance companies will raise their rates (not just in N.O. either, on flood insurance everwhere) will be y% more as well.
All that said though, it seems strange to me to have food and other survival items lumped in with "looting". It's not like the food would have any value in a week anyways. And in any case survival trumps property rights. Even the law recognizes that.
gerg, how do you know that the people who are doing the looting need what they are looting to survive? Regardless of what standard is used whether property rights, necessity, or compassion looting is wrong, a crime, and should be punished. The looters are not just stealing from the actual owners or the insurance companies, they're potentially stealing from people whose need may be greater than theirs. It's not their decision to make.
- WWL in New Orleans is clearly labeling the looters as such.
- Will the ACLU be filing suit against the LA governor for having a prayer meeting in a government building in New Orleans? One never knows, with them.
"What mystifies me is: why would you steal electronic equipment (TV's, computers, etc.) that (a) is unusable because there's no power, and (b) will probably be irreparably damaged by floodwater before the power returns? Food, clothing, diapers, even jewelry - I can see the practical value there, legal issues aside. But of what possible value is a waterlogged 24" TV?"
The false premise that everyone that attempts to excuse looting is going on is that looting is a rational impulse. That's the critical flaw in the thinking. The difference between the sort of looting going on in Biloxi and the sort of looting going on in New Orleans (at least the sort making the news) is that the sort we are talking about is most certainly NOT a rational responce to a crisis. And the sort that is a rational responce to a crisis isn't making the news and we wouldn't be talking about it if that was all or even primarily what was going on.
Here is a description of the likely pace of dewatering:
Whew.
Funny, as I mentioned, looting is not just something done by dark skinned people in a lawless period in cities. If you choose to read indifference into my mentioning more expensive official occasions of looting the public treasury, that's simply a skewed way of reading my comments. And I have heard of some aid agency personnel doing the looting in NO because of a need for supplies. No, I don't disapprove of that, I haven't heard anyone who did.
This looting is nothing compared to the grabfest that the Global Warming Buzzards are planning right now. That'll make these looters look like Winona Ryder.
I have no idea who is doing the looting. I'm 2,000 miles from the situation. I'm looking at the flow of news photographs. That means, what the camera saw in the places where the cameramen went. I have no idea if it's representative or not. But I do see a curious pattern in the way these photos are described by the people who are broadcasting them to the world. That is the topic of my speculation, no more. If it's racist to discuss the racial sensitivities of journalists, then go ahead and fire away, Davebo. I'm sorry I have to live in a world where you make all the rules of decency and you apply all the brandings of shame. Oh, and you read minds, too.
This link is not always a good source of news (understatement) but this is somewhat relevant. Note the times on the pics. Linkage
pk: I've seen that several places. I'm curious about the finding bread and soda from a local grocery store phrase. Finding something from somewhere usually implies that it was found elsewhere, as in "we found this bread from the store floating down the road".
It's also possible that this caption is hoax and the word "looting" was replaced with "finding".
Of course, it could be exactly what it appears to be, as well...
I wrote a bit about it here
There are 2 seperate issues at work in this story:
1. The race issue. The press feels uncomfortable showing pictures of only blacks looting. Bernard Goldberg talked a lot about this, its out of a sense of trying to be politically correct. If they had pics of whites or hispanics looting, they would be front and center, but NO happens to be a very African American city, particularly the lower class who couldnt or wouldnt get out. So thats the story, and thats the tension of calling it 'looting' or not.
2. Looting in general: Its not about whats taken or what would become of it. Its about lawlessness. Small acts of chaos breed larger