Attacks on the organs of the state, from community centres to police officers, are hardly rare in France. As Interior Minister Sarkozy noted recently, nine thousand police cars have been stoned since January.
The rioting in Clichy-Sous-Bois was ostensibly due to the deaths of two local teenagers, who were electrocuted on train tracks, allegedly while fleeing police (an accusation the police deny). The violence was initially confined to the one ‘suburb’, but on the sixth night there was rioting in nine cités. Last night, there was rioting in 20, with shots fired at police and firemen. Tonight the lawlessness will likely spread to more Parisian ‘suburbs’.
Viking Observer has translated an article from the Danish Jyllands-Posten, covering four nights of rioting in Århus. The grievance there is a series of rather less-than-politically-correct cartoons about Islam and Mohammed. The article has a statement from the spokesmen of the gangs responsible, who said that they had been planning the riots for three weeks.
As in all riots, the grievances were quickly forgotten once the first brick was thrown or molotov cocktail lit. Besides the police, the victims have been the owners of shops and restaurants, and of residents who had the nerve to think their cars would be safe from arson.
Observers of the debate about the European-Islamic identity, or rather the social and political consequences of it, should take note. In France, the spark was the supposed murder by police of two teenagers. In Denmark, it was an insult to Mohammed. But reading through the news reports, the most obvious theme is not religious zealotry, but criminals with a tenuous relationship with Islam trying to take control of the areas in which they live.
That isn’t to say Islam was irrelevant to the rioting. The rioters are likely typical of Europe’s young Muslims, in that they have adopted the victim-mantle forced upon them by the state and the media.
A large proportion of those – particularly in France – will have the same almost nihilistic streak exhibited by so large a segment of Britain’s population. In Britain, the cause was a revolution in morality, according to which judgement (or ‘being judgemental’, to use the insult now thrown around here) is to be shunned at all ethical costs. Instead of discouraging certain destructive behaviours, Britain would excuse them and subsidise them (unsurprisingly, those destructive behaviours aren’t conducive to holding a job).
In France, a similar policy has been adopted by government after government. Veering from complete indifference to a patronising and deeply damaging paternalism, often in the same week, the result is scores, probably hundreds, of cités.
For the uninitiated, cités are a mix of British council estates and the ‘ghettoes’ of U.S. cities. Police arrive only in force, or to escort firemen. Visiting politicians wear bullet-proof vests and are accompanied by riot police. Hordes of Kalashnikovs and other weaponry are periodically discovered, but the seizures probably represent only a small proportion of the total number given how few tips the police receive from the residents.
French Muslims make up a significant percentage of cite-dwellers, but West Africans and Eastern Europeans are also present. The rioting in Clichy-Sous-Bois was carried out by Arabs and Berbers, yes, but also by Africans who were probably not Muslim. To take a more general example, while Muslims make up 70% of prisoners in France, other immigrants are similarly over-represented. France’s social ills, like Britain’s, cut across cultural boundaries.
However, these problems are not blind to the quirks of culture. The problem for Europe is the heightened, yet incoherent, sense of identity many of these Muslims develop. Male chauvinism is a good example. Many young Muslim men, for instance, will quite happily have pre-marital sex with multiple partners, but would be furious to discover their sister doing the same thing.
The incoherence of what is becoming the prevalent European-Muslim identity, taking the worst elements of both cultures, leaves the way open for radical groups to convert and recruit to their cause.
In Britain, Hizb ut-Tahrir has frequently transformed criminals, including successful drug dealers, in to pious Muslims. While not a large proportion, the number of European Muslims who have “found Allah” and rejected their previous un-Islamic lifestyles is growing. It’s unfortunate that reforming criminals must have a downside, but the groups that are doing it are quite often the same ones in favour of jihadist terrorism. These converts from the secular, Europeanised Muslim identity to a more-Muslim-than-Muslims one are the obvious target for terrorist recruiters.
The Danish Muslim quoted in the article above as describing himself as “100% Palestinian” is another example of the exaggerated sense of identity amongst Muslim youth in Europe. Being “100% Palestinian” in the Middle East is fairly unremarkable, and often pretty unfortunate. But amongst European Muslims, it is a badge of honour. The anti-Semitic violence committed by the Arab European League in Belgium, or the wave of assaults on Jewish person and property committed by European Muslims, stands in contrast to the muted reaction of Egyptian and Jordanian citizens to Israeli tourists visiting their countries.
I’d hesitate to divide between the lawlessness committed by unobservant Muslims and the terrorism perpetrated by their devout brothers and sisters. Native terrorist cells, the 7/7 four being a prime example, mostly seem to hail from the pious section of Europe’s Muslims, disgusted as much by the un-Islamic lifestyle of their fellow Muslims as by the West’s immorality at home and tyranny abroad.
But this may not last. Al-Qaeda has allied itself with groups and ideologues with a lot less in common with them than the angry Muslims of Europe’s cities. And those denied the lives ‘society’ supposedly owes them often develop a nihilism not unlike that of the savages who make up the jihadi ranks.
British intelligence now believes they are tackling an ‘insurgency’, as opposed to a terrorist threat. In France, an insurgency of sorts has been waged for some time against the state’s presence in les cités - the ongoing violence being inevitable rather than exceptional.
The trends are all pointing in one direction. Europe may yet be reminded of what open warfare on the streets of Paris, Berlin, and Brussels looks like.
It occurs to me that Israel's proximity to the lawless Palestinian regions -- where mosques amplify the war cries of intifada -- is now happening in Europe.
Parts of Western Europe are dotted with little Palestines, of their own making. How strange that they should be so enraged at Israel, when in fact they're in the same soup.
My worry is that when Europeans do wake up -- and it might be happening this week -- they will kick into a xenophobic mode that will seek the expulsion of everyone foreign, not just Muslims. There is no easy, clean, fair way out of their mess.
As a side note to the European crisis, I now believe that it is possible the whole Khatami 'moderate' era in Iran was part of a strategy to develop nukes, all along. As long as Iran was playing the moderate card, the appeasers ran the West's policies of engagement over the nuclear issue. Now it seems that it might have been by design, and that the period of appeasement was leveraged by the radicals to develop nukes.
Thank the deities that Mexicans are not religious fanatics.
The most serious situation is in France. For now, the fighting is isolated away from the city centres. Until it spreads, I don't think there will be a major reaction.
There are a more than a few other flashpoints. Malmo is the obvious one, but also Antwerp, where an Orthodox Jew was shot in the head a year ago. The large Jewish and Arab communities there make it an obvious city for mass-rioting, and the presence of the Arab European League there will only make things worse.
Excellent essay, Colt. Just a factual correction: the youths died by electrocution on a transformer at a power substation, not train tracks. They climbed the fence to get away from police they thought/claim were chasing them.
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/Wilkerson%20Speech%20--%20WEB.htm
And this shows you a glimpse of the problems Bush has caused domestically and internationally and just how screwed up it all is.
I would bet, if you really read it, you will find similar problems present in Europe and Asia.
Minor sidebar: i've been involved in 3 distinct debates over the past few weeks regarding the future of Israel/Palestine. Usually, those debates revolve around the West Bank, Gaza Strip with the right of return playing a small bargaining role. Now all of them are premised on 1 united state, supposedly multiethnic and democratic. As Colt or anyone else will tell you, that is code for Israel being good enough to commit suicide. Its anachdotyl evidence, but it seems that Palestinans and Arabs may be making a sea-change in their demands now that it looks like Israel may be actually willing to negotiate a solution along the UN lines. This is greatly disturbing to me, although i know many wont be surprised. I hope this is just a blip and not the future, because if Sharon really holds out this offer and it is slapped away with this ridiculous untenable demand, i think the current intafada will look like a golden age of peace.
So, the cités are like Gaza? Disputed territories under ineffectual police control, increasingly run by criminals and radicalizing religious elements. Should France surrender the territories its occupying in the name of self-determination?
Marcus Cicero (#1)
My worry is that when Europeans do wake up [...] they will kick into a xenophobic mode that will seek the expulsion of everyone foreign, not just Muslims.
Well, it might sound frivolous, but many Spaniards won't in any way kick their blond Russian and Ukranian wifes out of the country, I can assure you that.
I think a point, well two, are missed. France has a very accute economic problem, despite propaganda on the contrary. Thanks to decades of Socialism, it is really difficult to find a job there. Moreover, its Muslim population is six million, about a tenth of the country's. The situation seems to have reached the flash point, and it is hurting the only politician in the French panorama that had some ideas beyond Socialism: Nicolas Sarkozy, the Interior Minister.
I don't say with this that it cannot happen in any other European country, only that the conditions are more favourable in France.
[Marshal "Smokin' Joe" Katzman: comment deleted for complete lack of relevance to the topic under discussion.]
Errr, ok. And the muslim youth burning down Paris I assume is Bush's fault as well. Ahem.
"Anything bad happens with Iran, and it's BUSH"S FAULT. And yours."
The playground is that a way. This is forum for adults, and we like it that way. The last thing we need is ridiculous people making ridiculous comments which have no bearing on reality. First, your post is off topic, unless you are suggesting that the rioting in Paris is also Bush's fault. Second, I don't know where you got the idea that we were fired up Bush supporters, but it wasn't by reading anything written here. Since your post isn't grounded in reality to begin with, it doesn't deserve any further response.
#6 Mark Buehner
I haven't seen or heard anything to back that up, so hopefully the true colours of a few people are being exposed.
That said, the upcoming terror campaign will probably spark another 'disengagement'. After that, the PLO will have a new list of demands, which may well include a single, 'bi-national' state.
Remarkable.
Well, there are only two solutions: assimilation or apartheid. They can't be sent back, any more than the freed slaves could have been. And I will offer this-- this is far less about Islam, than about perceived injustice, discrimination and unemployment--23% for the under-25 XY in france. Islam is the excuse.
We've been working on assimilation since 1865-- 140 years-- how are we doing? Not perfectly I would say....the underclass of New Orleans, the rioting in Cleveland...400 years of slavery and white opression is the excuse there.
I think Israel tried assimilation but has been driven to apartheid. I think it is a better solution in the short term.
Drop what you are doing and go read:
The Suicide Bombers Among Us by Theodore Dalrymple
Robert -
Theodore Dalrymple wrote an article three years ago on the cités: The Barbarians at the Gates of Paris
Kafka couldn't make this stuff up.
Yes, Cicero, the chickens are coming home to roost and the shit has indeed hit the fan. I think we are nearing the end of Christianity as a dynamic force, and the fundamental change in Christian Europe as a center of intellectual and material civilization. No doubt we will in the next decade see the traditional European response to deep threats to national identity: fascism and mass murder. Europe is going to be a very difficult place to live in.
But I am not sure that the rest of the Moslem world will stand by while their brothers lose the civil war which is brewing in Europe.
As for us in Israel, we like the canaries in the cage, have already gone through these tribulations, but as a relatively communal and solidarity-oriented culture, with a history of national preservation of more than 3000 years - we survived and became stronger. I do not think that the same will happen in Europe.
We, on the other hand, must retain the Iron Wall between us and the rest of the world, European or Moslem; make allies where we can; try to forge new combinations (Turkey/Kurdistand/Iranian Opposition); and stay on our toes. We survived the Pharaoh, we will survive this as well.
#14 from matoko-chan
Factual correction: Toledo. And some time back, Cincinnati. As for that all being a result of white oppression, see e.g. Bill Cosby's comments.
"Ain't nothin' simple." See also the Dalrymple quote in comment #15 in this thread. I think a certain amount of interpolation applies to the "thug life" culture:
"...men...wish to maintain their dominance over women...the hurtful experience of disdain or rejection from the surrounding society; the bitter disappointment of a frustrated materialism and a seemingly perpetual inferior status in the economic hierarchy...modern popular culture...an oscillation between feelings of inferiority and superiority...and the grotesque inflation of the importance of personal existential problems that is typical of modern individualism..."
These things are in effect in many places, crosing "racial" and national lines.
It is the seeming overall brittleness of the culture that troubles me -- and the concomitant reactive expecting-the-worst that, to a degree, engenders worse. The classic "trouble times" individual-existential problem tends to be: Whom do you trust? And on what basis?
And the smaller that circle is, the bleaker your life, no matter what your complexion.
The only thing I can say is to the Jews of France: "Start packing and come home!"
Matoko (#14)
They can't be sent back, any more than the freed slaves could have been.
Don't say it too loud: they were in 1609. Another point: arab countries lay only ten miles away from Europe.
Wise man (#17)
I think we are nearing the end of Christianity as a dynamic force, and the fundamental change in Christian Europe as a center of intellectual and material civilization.
Well, Spain was invaded by powerful Muslim armies and that was not the end of the country. Christianity prevailed in the end because it simply offered a better standard of living.
the traditional European response to deep threats to national identity: fascism and mass murder.
The Four European Nations: England, France, Spain and Portugal were created around the 15th century, well in advance of Fascism, conceived in the latest 19th. It is not a tradition at all. Mass murder has happened along all the European history, especially related with religious intolerance, not attacks to the national identity. Moreover, European countries reacted together to external threats like in 1212, the battle of the Navas the Tolosa; 1529, the siege of Wien by the Turks); 1536, the Tunisian campaign by Germans, Italians, Portuguese and Spanish; or 1577, the battle of Lepanto, Italians and Spaniards.
We, on the other hand, must retain the Iron Wall between us and the rest of the world, European or Moslem
A strategy for success, indeed. And you critize Europeans for clinging on National identity.
"Yeah Now"... As celebrim notes, this is a site and a forum for adults.
The comment here, utterly irrelevant to the subject under discussion, seems of a piece with other contributons from you elsewhere lately. You're going to have to bring up your game and offer relevant, substantive commentary if you wish to stay here.
(1) Comment #9 deleted per Winds comments policy. Consider that my warning shot.
(2) Much more of this, and I'll pull out the IP ban and remove your commenting powers for good.
Just a quick note, as pointe d out by Brookheiser: no one has yet died in these riots, except for the two youths whose deaths started this thing in the first place. While you all get your rocks off fanatsizing about the impending European doom, keep that in mind, along with this: 50 people died in the Rodney King riots, and dozens have died in sporting championship "celebrations" in this country. Glass houses, etc.
The day is young, sadly. There is a French surrender joke here somewhere but i dont have the heart to use it. Its pretty clear whats going to happen: when all the touchy feely pain feeling by the Chirac government has failed enough, the jackboot solution will be enacted, and then the real violence will start. Its pretty classic liberalism- apologizing and tolerance of bad behavior to the nth degree, and when that fails badly enough a brutal backlash.
"Just a quick note, as pointed out by Brookheiser: no one has yet died in these riots, except for the two youths whose deaths started this thing in the first place...keep that in mind, along with this: 50 people died in the Rodney King riots..."
By all means, be a voice of reason and caution. I have no problem with that. Yes, that is an important consideration. To be honest, I have absolutely no idea which way that this is going to go. It could simply die down, though it hasn't shown any sign of doing that in the first nine days. The French police have shown some success is suppressing violence in particular neighborhoods, but the violence is also spreading out into larger and larger areas resulting in a net increase in scope (if not in intensity) every night.
The French government will not be able to control this. What can, and what may well control this, is the effected communities themselves. What will put a stop to this if anything can will be parents, community leaders, and a change in the sentiment of the rioters themselves.
So far, while at this point 1000's of cars have been torched, relatively few buildings and people seem to have been targeted. And those buildings which have been targeted don't have people in them. A change in that would represent a major escalation on the part of the vandals, as would a shift from mere destruction to targeted looting.
So far, things aren't completely out of control. Things may well cool off before someone dies. But if they don't, and with the burning of a handicapped woman last night there is plenty of reason to fear that they won't, then the big test will be how the first death (on either 'side') is responded to. If the police kill a rioter, will that serve to further enflame the violence, or will the fear that engenders temporarily supress it? If the rioters cause the death of someone, will that be a splash of cold water in the faces of most of the youths that causes them to reassess the value of what they are doing, or will it mark the beginning of a pattern of copy cat killings and escalations? And once the rubicon of murder is crossed, how will or must the French government respond?
I don't know, and you don't either. And the frustrating thing is that this is being so poorly covered by the MSM, that I think everyone is literally in the dark about what is really going on. This would be a really great time for an army of 'camera phone journalists'/bloggers native to the area to emerge and provide the real picture (or at least a perspective on it).
On the other hand...
"While you all get your rocks off fanatsizing about the impending European doom..."
That is BS. I am not happy about the situation at all. Little would make me happier than thoughts of a strong, vibrant, and prosperous Europe carrying forward the Western tradition in its myriad of cultural forms. Whatever I may think of post-modernism, deconstructionism, and the post-Christian culture currently dominating the thought of European intellectuals and psuedo-intellectuals, Europe is and remains the birthplace of much that is admirable, beautiful, and enduring. The whole world, and we in America in particular as inheritors of that cultural tradition, owe Europe a great dept for its contributions to philosophy, civility, the sciences, and the arts. I do not 'get my rocks off' thinking about any of that going up in flames. Far from it.
"..and dozens have died in sporting championship "celebrations" in this country. Glass houses, etc."
By this point, you've diverged off into irrelevant comparisons and trite homilies.
Yes it's true. They pay people to hate society. They pay people to be criminals, to be idle, to hatch plots of violence and insurrection. They call it welfare. An interesting misnomer. Where will it end? Not in a good place. Whoever labeled the production of dysfunction "welfare" can probably think of a good name for it.
As a news hound, this story is extremely frustrating for me. In the ninth day of rioting, we are just now recieving clear statements in the press that the rioters are - as most of us expected - mostly Moslems. The AFP news wire is absolutely silent on this story.
But anyway, it now seems possible that there are deaths associated with the rioting that have not been reported as yet. The LA Times had this interesting bit in its most recent coverage:
"On the same day the teenagers died, police in nearby Epinay arrested three men who allegedly beat a visiting photographer to death. The man worked for a lighting company and had stopped his car at a housing project to take pictures of light fixtures when he was assaulted in front of his family, police said."
Granted, this case is not directly connected to the riots, but it does show a) that we haven't been getting all the peices, and b) that the potential for this to get very ugly already exists.
On another note, I remember reading somewhere that on any average night, that 20 cars were torched in the greater Paris metropolitan area prior to the 'rioting' officially beginning. According to police, there were 9000 attacks on thier cars in 2004. In other words I got the impression that this has been going on for a very long time and what's happened now isn't something new, just a escalation in the scale to the point that its recieving international attention.
Can anyone confirm or discredit that impression by providing a link to reputable sources?
And then there is this...
"What's in play behind this violence is turf," Julien Dray said during a televised discussion Thursday. "A certain number of religious extremists will say, 'Let us handle things and you will have calm.' Or a certain number of gangsters will say, 'Don't mess with our business and there will be no fires.'
"That's why if we don't put officials of high quality to work in these areas, I know what's going to happen. The politicians will all surrender because they don't want fires in their neighborhoods." - LA Times
I tend to think Mssr Dray understands the French all too well.
Mark: There is a French surrender joke here somewhere but i dont have the heart to use it.
Isn't that the truth? This is all a plot to make us feel sorry for the perfidious French. They're faking it with stock footage from Italian soccer games. Karl Rove has been working for them all along.
Sorry, I channeling Thierry Meyssan there for a moment.
_Fortunately, some police passed by, but to my acquaintance’s dismay let the assailant go, giving him only a warning.
My acquaintance said to the police that he would make a complaint. The senior among them advised him against wasting his time. At that time of night, there would be no one to complain to in the local commissariat. He would have to go the following day and would have to wait on line for three hours. He would have to return several times, with a long wait each time. And in the end, nothing would be done._
It sounds as if they've given up on parts of Paris. Perhaps what they could use is a Guiliani to turn the city around.
#28 Glen
And the people bankrolling the fakery are none other than the sons of pigs and monkeys and dogs, the perfidious J*****s! To further blacken the name of the only true civilized culture!
Sorry, I was channeling Egyptian TV there for a minute.
Nort
In the meanwhile, Rome says No to Mr Ahmadinejad
From: In Vino Veritas:
Just a quick note, as pointe d out by Brookheiser: no one has yet died in these riots, except for the two youths whose deaths started this thing in the first place.
A bus was torched with a woman inside even though someone told that guy who torched the bus that there was a woman inside! I do NOT understand why the French authorities don't start shooting at these people! It has now spread to Toulouse, Nice, Marseilles and other cities. (See www.frontpagemag.com )
One of the chapters in my French book was that in some banlieu riots weren't even news. And it is not exactly recent that i had French in highschool(late 80's)