Welcome! This briefing will be looking hard at the dark places the mainstream media sometimes seem determined to look away from, to better understand our declared enemies on their own terms and without illusions. Our goal is to bring you some of the top jihadi rants, idiotarian seething, and old-school Jew-hatred from around the world, leaving you more informed, more aware, and pretty disgusted every month. This Winds of Change.NET HateWatch briefing is brought to you by Omri Ceren of Mere Rhetoric. Past briefings and posts on related topics can be found here.
HIGHLIGHTED TOPICS
- Religious Hate: Violent Iranian anti-Semitism goes global: denies Holocaust, threatens genocide; World-wide Ramadan violence continues; Religion of Peace slaps Europe around; Holocaust denial in the Czech Republic; Anti-Semitism in Russia; Liberal Protestant divestment campaigns intensify, slip into anti-Semitism; Iranian children's cartoon glorifies murder, suicide bombings; Australian Islamists continue to preach hatred; Palestinian Muslims desecrate Jewish and Christian holy books
- Idiotarian Seethings: Iman blames massive earthquake on cable television; Cantata for Rachel Corrie; Freedom-loving feminists from Code Pink go to Cuba; Greenpeace fined for damaging coral reef ; Howard Dean: "Republican leaders are ayatollahs"; Leftist exaggerations of self-importance, fantasies of revenge, rants
- Race and Culture: Racist teeny boppers sing tributes to Nazis; Professor calls for extermination of al whites; Edgy-to-racist comic strip brought to television; Australian police told to coerce abused Muslim women to stay with husbands; African-American Republican becomes the target of revolting racism from Left
- A Hopeful Note: Liberal Tunisian Researcher calls on Muslims to take responsibility; Saudi journalist compares Jihadism to Nazism
- In the Middle East, Iran's new President vows to perpetuate another Holocaust by nuking the five million Jews in Israel, while in Germany Iranian book exhibitors deny that the first Holocaust ever happened and call for violence against Jews. UN Secretary General Kofi Annan will be honor Iran with an official visit this week.
- Muslim fanatics continue to celebrate Ramadan with mass murder: 34 attacks and several bombings in Thailand, the beheading of three Christian girls in Indonesia, and massive bombings in India.
- Across Europe, violent Muslim extremists are fighting and winning. In Paris, riots by Muslim youth enter their eighth day:
Rioting youths shot at police and firefighters Thursday after burning car dealerships and public buses and hurling rocks at commuter trains... Rampaging for an eighth day, youths ignored an appeal for calm from French President Jacques Chirac... in suburbs heavily populated by first- and second-generation North African and Muslim immigrants.
In Denmark, unassimilated Muslim immigrants are also rioting:There are Islamic riots in Denmark as well... [a rioter] calls himself 100 percent Palestinian, born in a refugee camp in Lebanon 19 years ago... "The police has to stay away. This is our area. We decide what goes down here". And then the bit with the drawings of the prophet Muhammed comes around: "We are tired of what we see happening with our prophet. We are tired of Jyllands-Posten. I know it isnt you, but we wont accept what Jyllands-Posten has done to the prophet", he says aggressively, and the others nod approvingly.
In the Netherlands, pressure from Muslim groups has forced the government to pass legislation literally diminishing Christ's name:In Brussels [they] have come up with a new grammar rule for themselves and the Netherlands - making it official that the name "Christ" will soon be written with a lower-case "c". That was the stipulation in an orthography reform published earlier this month in Brussels.
In Italy, Italian government ministers who intended to protest Iran's genocidal threat to nuke five million Jews were forced to back off by Muslim extremists.Italy's foreign minister Gianfranco Fini said he will not attend Thursday's night rally in support of Israel for fear that his presence could "cause harmful consequences to our national interests and to the security of our fellow citizens from the Iranian side."
In Britain, the most extreme Muslim organizations are calling for criticism of Islam to be outlawed even as they openly declare their intention to take over the country:The report quotes Zaki Badawi, president of London’s Muslim College, holder of the Order of the British Empire, and the widely recognized "unofficial leader, representative, and advocate of Britain’s mainline Muslims"... "Islam endeavors to expand in Britain... It hopes that one day the whole of humanity will be one Muslim community... The Muslims, jurists and theologians, have always expounded Islam as both Government and a faith. This reflects the historical fact that Muslims, from the start, lived under their own law. Muslim theologians naturally produced a theology with this in view... Being a minority was not seriously considered or even contemplated"...
Muslim organizations in Britain have attempted to enforce Muslim custom and sharia law upon unwilling members of their own faith community, especially women - and then how they have gone on to attempt to enforce Muslim norms on all British people, Muslim or not. The report quotes a manifesto by the Muslim Institute, another prominent British Muslim group, issued in 1990 after the Salman Rushdie affair. "The Muslim community may have to define ‘no go’ areas where the exercise of ‘freedom of speech’ against Islam will not be tolerated." And indeed the Blair government is attempting to extend Britain’s laws against hate-speech to forbid criticism of religion and religious practices. The report describes how British authorities have quietly acquiesced when Muslim groups demanded the removal of symbols like the crown or the cross of St. George from police badges, have accommodated the public observance of Islam while dismantling Christian observances
- Right wing Czech extremists are turning out by the dozens to defend Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel.
- Anti-Semitic vandalism and cemetery desecrations continue to sky-rocket in Russia.
- Just as Prime Minister Sharon is taking historic and unprecedented risks for peace, liberal Protestant Churches are accelerating their campaigns to divest their holdings from companies providing support to Israel. There's really little reason why anti-Israel activists should respond to Israel's territorial concessions by intensifying their attempts to ostracize the Jewish state - yet somehow, mysteriously, these well-meaning and not at all anti-Semitic campaigns (because everyone knows that anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism) are organized by anti-Semites...
The conference brought together an unknown number of registrants... to explore "the emerging non-violent economic strategies to achieve [a just peace in Israel-Palestine], including shareholder initiatives, partial divestment and boycotts." Founded about 15 years ago, Sabeel... propounds a "Palestinian theology of liberation." Critics say its leader, Anglican clergyman Canon Naim Ateek, has repeatedly characterized Israel with language invoking Jewish complicity in the crucifixion of Jesus.
... and keep sliding into anti-Semitism:The Dept. of Philosophy and Religion at Coe is aware that some anti-Semitic remarks were made at the recent Sabeel Conference held on our campus and which our department sponsored. We are also aware that here were other breaches of civility during the conference.
- At the risk of sounding shrill, the Iranian cartoon glorifying child suicide bombers is sick and depraved.
- Despite new Australian laws banning incitement, Muslim clerics there continue to openly call for violence.
- As the United States demands that soldiers guarding terrorists show deference to Islam by handling the Koran with clean gloves and two hands "in a manner signaling respect and reverence", Palestinian Muslims shred Jewish and Christian holy books and scatter them in the streets:
Friday's spiteful desecration of bibles and Jewish prayer books by "Palestinian" Muslims visiting the biblical Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, however, went virtually unnoticed. Photographs taken by outraged members of Hebron's Jewish community and posted online showed the torn pages unceremoniously dumped behind the Gutnick Center, which stands in front of the compound built by King Herod over the burial place of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...
This is probably a good time to mention that a discredited news story about limited desecration of translated Koran texts triggered intense, worldwide Muslim rioting and predictable, tiresome Western self-flagellation.
David Wilder, a spokesman for the community, told The Jerusalem Post that as local Jews "searched the area for the ripped pages, Arab residents looked on with enjoyment."... "One can only imagine the response had" the roles been reversed and the "Arabs discovered desecrated Korans" at the site, an official statement by the Jews of Hebron read. Muslims in this region, however, are accustomed to having their intolerance and disdain for all things Jewish and Christian go unanswered.
- Of all the dumb deity-related explanations for natural disasters that we've been cataloging over and over and over again, this one is by far the dumbest:
A Muslim cleric in earthquake-ravaged northern Pakistan says lurid television programming on cable television caused the disaster by invoking Allah's wrath... Imam Shafqat ur-Rehman is convinced that the natural disaster was God's punishment for people viewing too much cable smut. "Cable TV is a source of vulgarity and obscenity," said the imam, who heads a local madrassa, or Islamic school.
But lest you think that killing tens of thousands of people because Alias has been sub-par this season is somehow petty, understand that there were also very serious transgressions being addressed:In the town, the quake inflicted the worst damage on the girls' high school. The bodies of 323 girls were dug up from the ruins, and about 80 corpses are believed to still be buried in the rubble, residents said. The imam said there was nothing wrong with girls being at school, but they were not fully covered, and offending Allah.
- The Lincoln Center and the Royal Court are quite interested in the new cantata that's been written in honor of Rachel Corrie. It is the artist's historical prerogative to passionately opine about that which he or she is woefully ignorant - but this generation's artist-intellectuals seem to have particularly base instincts.
- Idiotarian feminist group Code Pink is taking a field trip to Cuba:
The Bush administration says we can only travel to Cuba if we have immediate family there. Well, we do. Cubans ARE family-Somos Familia. And while we’re there, we’ll be holding a mutual adoption ceremony in order to demonstrate that family transcends political boundaries. In the ceremony, each participant will be paired with a Cuban brother or sister. After all, we are all part of one human family and there should be no artificial barriers dividing us.
Yes, the phrase "freedom-loving Americans" actually appears in favor of Castro. Hey, you know why this family reunion has to happen in Cuba? Because if the metaphoric siblings tried to visit the United States, Castro would have them shot.
- While trying to demonstrate that anthropogenic climate change is destroying coral reefs, Greenpeace ran their flagship Rainbow Warrior II aground at Tubbataha Reef Marine Park. Subsequent investigation indicated that the reef had actually been undamaged before these brave eco-warriors decided to save it. Final damage to the reef: Greenpeace - 1,076 sq ft; Global Warming - 0 sq ft.
- Ridiculous, hysterical analogies are the sign of an unserious mind. Democratic National Committee Howard Dean:
Dean said Republicans should not have interfered in the Terri Schiavo right-to-life case. "I'm tired of the ayatollahs of the right wing," Dean said. "We're fighting for freedom in Iraq. We're going to fight for freedom in America."
Agree or disagree with their stance, all the Republican leadership did in the Schiavo case was try to prevent a comatose woman from being starved to death. This week, the ayatollahs in Iran have purged their ranks of diplomats urging reconciliation with the West and threatened to nuke five million Jews. Yet the leader of the Democratic party finds that the two groups are of the same kind.
- There's an ugly blend of resentment and machismo on the Left which leads many of its denizens to imagine that their own power or importance or abilities are far beyond what dispassionate analysis might otherwise indicate.
Exagerated sense of self-importance: DailyKos diarist Hunter imagines that someone actually listens to - or is intimidated by - him:Oh boy. You've just stepped in it now, s**theads. This one's personal -- screw everything else written on this site, and on every other site, about Alito for the time being. See, here's the thing. I'm Italian American. I'm also an at-this-point-happily-lapsed but still d**n respectful Roman Catholic. And I will be God D**n F**king Dead And In a Hole In The F**king Ground before I let you claim "Italian American" OR Roman Catholic as a f**king code phrase for bats**t conservative reactionaries.
[editing is ours - while we have no objection to cursing per se, obscenity-laced temper tantrums are inappropriate to even the most rudimentary deliberative pretenses of the blogosphere] If there's something unseemly about losing one's temper in public, there's something positively pathetic about pretending to lose one's temper to get attention.
Delusions of graduer: Charlie Rangel is apparently the only person who actually believes that Vice President Cheney is avoiding New York because the VP is too frightened to address Rangel's insulting demand that he take a mental health test.
Just kind of pathetic: The consistent and boastful references relating the size of Harry Reid's genitals to his silly little stunt on the Senate floor - from the Daily Show to this guy - betray something in the way of insecurity.
- Aren't they just the most adorable little Nazis you've ever seen?
Thirteen-year-old twins Lamb and Lynx Gaede have one album out, another on the way, a music video, and lots of fans... Known as "Prussian Blue" - a nod to their German heritage and bright blue eyes - the girls from Bakersfield, Calif., have been performing songs about white nationalism before all-white crowds since they were nine. "We're proud of being white, we want to keep being white," said Lynx.
If they weren't being home-schooled by their lunatic racist mother, they'd know that singing tributes to Nazi Rudolf Hess isn't going to affect their ability to "keep being white" one way or another. Then again, a lack of exposure to rudimentary biology textbooks is the least of these girls' problems.
- Dr. Kamau Kambon is an affiliated faculty instructor at NC State University. He is calling upon his students and followers "to exterminate white people off the face of the planet". Charming.
- "Genius" "angriest black man in America" Aaron McGruder is taking his Boondocks comic strip to television. We won't take a stand as to whether the comic strip's repeated use of racial epithets is damaging or recuperative for the difficult task of achieving equality, but this just doesn't sound very funny:
Within the first 10 seconds of the new show of the same name, viewers will be offered the following Molotov cocktail of social criticism: "Jesus is black, Ronald Reagan is the devil and the government is lying about 9/11."
- The tension that multiculturalists inherently face is how to tolerate intolerance - especially racial or gender intolerance. In Australia, police have resolved that tension by taking a stand firmly in favor of intolerance:
Police are being advised to treat Muslim domestic violence cases differently out of respect for Islamic traditions and habits. Officers are also being urged to work with Muslim leaders, who will try to keep the families together. Women's groups are concerned the politically correct policing could give comfort to wife bashers and keep their victims in a cycle of violence.... Police are told: "In incidents such as domestic violence, police need to have an understanding of the traditions, ways of life and habits of Muslims." They are told it would be appreciated in cases of domestic violence if police consult the local Muslim religious leader who will work against "fragmenting the family unit".
Yeah, you wouldn't want to fragment those idyllic family units. Coercing abused women to stay with their abusers – that's what counts as "respect for Islam" these days.
- Disgusting:
Black Democratic leaders in Maryland say that racially tinged attacks against Lt. Gov. Michael S. Steele in his bid for the U.S. Senate are fair because he is a conservative Republican... This is how low the Left's political discourse has sunk: [Michelle Malkin is] a banana and a coconut and a whore and worse. Michael Steele is an Uncle Tom and a Sambo... defacing Steele's photo and assaulting him with Oreo cookies are peaceful exercises of free speech. Demonizing Condi is a harmless prank. Calling her a "House Nigga" is acceptable humor.
- Liberal Tunisian author and researcher Dr. Iqbal Al-Gharbi is taking a strong stand against the resentment, conspiracy theorizing, and externalization that is so prevalent throughout the Muslims world.
- MEMRI posts articles by Saudi columnist Muhammad bin 'Abd Al-Latif Aal Al-Sheikh in which he decries Jihadism as a violent ideology tantamount to Nazism.
Hmmmm....
I sense that you share my deepening sense of frustration with the Wests response to the purveyors of hate.
Why is it that 'artists' can do things like 'Piss Christ' and paint the Madonna in feces without causing riots in all the Christian cities of the Earth...
Why is it that a can demand Christ be spelled with a little 'c', and demand 'may peace be upon him' follow any usage of the word Mohammed...
Why is it we are supposed to take seriously anyone's worry about whether the koran is desecrated if those same people demanding that the koran be treated respectfully would defend the desecration of flags and bibles as free speech...
Why is it that piggy banks can be banned, but presumably the Darwin fishes on the back of car bumpers cannot...
Have we lost our minds? The Jihadist constitute the very sort of violent reactionary theocrats which have long constituted the boogey man of the Left? Why are they busy appeasing this monster?
And then there's these folks. You just can't be a honorable conservative. Look who is on your side.
Klan To Rally In Support Of Gay Marriage Amendment
POSTED: 10:45 am CDT October 25, 2005
UPDATED: 10:58 am CDT October 25, 2005
AUSTIN, Texas -- The Ku Klux Klan plans to rally in Austin to support the gay marriage amendment set for the Nov. 8 ballot.
The rally planned on the steps of city hall the Saturday before the election will urge voters to favor proposition 2.
'Why is it that piggy banks can be banned, but presumably the Darwin fishes on the back of car bumpers cannot...'
Excuse me, but the fishes I see on car bumpers are mostly those representing Christ, as early christians used them to identify themselves - 'fish' was spelled by the first letters of the four words used to identify Christ. I've seen darwin fishes too, with legs, is that what you mean?
"Excuse me, but the fishes I see on car bumpers are mostly those representing Christ, as early christians used them to identify themselves"
Yes, this is correct.
"- 'fish' was spelled by the first letters of the four words used to identify Christ."
Specifically, the fish symbol is an encryption of the declaration, "Iesous Christos Theou Yios Soter".
"I've seen darwin fishes too, with legs, is that what you mean?"
The use of the fish symbol to identify ones household as Christian is ancient, dating to at least the 3rd century. Sometime in the 20th century, it became common to put this symbol on the back of one's automobile. American commercialism being what it is, this prompted a whole sub-industry to personalize the image. In come cases the fish would contain the word 'Christ' or the greek acronym within the name. In responce, atheists began making subtle jabs at the Christians by putting fish symbols with legs on the back of thier car. Some of these contained the words 'Darwin' in them. Lately I've been seeing on the back of cars Darwin fishes eating Christos fishes, and vica versa 'Truth' fishes eating Darwin fishes.
It is all to me rather amusing.
But, there is no reason it has to be amusing. If I were as intolerant as the Moslems who find piggy banks insulting or see ice cream cones as blasphamous because they think the design looks to similar to the arabic for 'Allah', I would probably be enraged at the whole Darwin fish thing. After all, it is a direct attack on an ancient Christian declaration. Humorous though the jibe is intended to be, it literally is an insult to Christians. If unintended insults like the story of the Three Pigs and pig shaped coin banks are sufficiently insulting to warrant public banning, how much more so should deliberate insults (however charming you might find them) be banned?
What I am asking is do you really like were that line of thought takes you? Are we really going to sacrifice 300+ years of the development of a spirit tolerence in the West, to appease the sentiments of the intolerent? Do we really want to reach the point were piggy banks and Darwin fishes are considered 'hate speech'?
Lately I've been seeing on the back of cars Darwin fishes eating Christos fishes, and vica versa 'Truth' fishes eating Darwin fishes.
Funny thing is, both of those scenarios are darwinian.
The answer as to why it's OK to poke fun at one superstitious fantasy but not another...
One is that Christians have evolved. Or been tamed. Take your pick. There was an era when rightous christians would have smote or burned any such mockery. But no longer.
Will Islam evolve similarly?
This blog is full of very frightened warnings about Islam. They could have been aimed at Christians just 500 years ago.
"Funny thing is, both of those scenarios are darwinian."
I didn't say that they weren't.
"They could have been aimed at Christians just 500 years ago."
Ok, I'm about to loose patience with you. Didn't I just say, "Are we really going to sacrifice 300+ years of the development of a spirit tolerence in the West.." So clearly I'm aware of the very thing you act as if I'm oblivious to.
But more importantly, 500 years is a fairly long time. There is no sense in talking about 'just 500 years' unless we are talking about geological or evolutionary time. Are you suggesting that we should wait 500 years for Islam to evolve, and in the mean time we should sacrifice are hard won values? Are you suggesting that we can 'tame' (as you put it) Islam by rewarding intolerant behavior? If I follow your logic correctly, you are saying that its not OK to make fun of Muslims (but it is OK to make fun of Christians) because Muslims are likely to smite you if they mock them. Is that what you mean to suggest?
What exactly are you trying to say?
Thanks for the info, Celebrim, it's been a long time since I saw the origins of 'fish' written out. As to taking offense, I recall reading that the first appearance of a Christmas tree in a church in New York received a great deal of negative reaction because of the paganism of the symbol. (I rather enjoy that the Saxons supposedly began bringing a fir tree into the hut to repel fleas and that developed into the decorated 'tree of life' of early celebrations of winter.)
Muslims as far as I know aren't totally dominated by the uptight mullahs who make a big show of outlawing silly things. And neithe do I think Christianity is represented by those who stand their children outside abortion clinics holding signs with pictures of fetuses on them.
Thanks for the info, Celebrim, it's been a long time since I saw the origins of 'fish' written out. As to taking offense, I recall reading that the first appearance of a Christmas tree in a church in New York received a great deal of negative reaction because of the paganism of the symbol. (I rather enjoy that the Saxons supposedly began bringing a fir tree into the hut to repel fleas and that developed into the decorated 'tree of life' of early celebrations of winter.)
Muslims as far as I know aren't totally dominated by the uptight mullahs who make a big show of outlawing silly things. And neither do I think Christianity is represented by those who stand their children outside abortion clinics holding signs with pictures of fetuses on them.
"As to taking offense, I recall reading that the first appearance of a Christmas tree in a church in New York received a great deal of negative reaction because of the paganism of the symbol."
Did the protesters suggest people should be killed?
Ruth, I think what you said is a great example of totally missing the point. 'Negative reaction' is no big deal. It's part of people's freedom of speach. People should be allowed to have negative reactions. Our society depends on it. But 'negative reaction' is only no big deal because we live in a tolerent society. What is very different between the negative reaction to 'Piss Christ' and say the recent cartoons in Denmark, is after 'Piss Christ' the 'artist' wasn't hiding in fear of violent retribution and gangs of Christian youths weren't rioting in New York or elsewhere.
It's a hard question, how to tame Islam, or help its members evolve. It probably will take centuries.
The French clearly need to state "this is France". If you want Sharia law then head elsewhere.
And then clamp down and restore order. Don't give in to the Mullahs there.
Piggy banks are just as OK as Darwin fishs.
Dr. Kamau Kambon is an affiliated faculty instructor at NC State University. He is calling upon his students and followers "to exterminate white people off the face of the planet". Charming.
I find it interesting that you seem to be less offended by Kambon than by the two white girls.
'Did the protesters suggest people should be killed?'
Excuse me, how many piggy bank owners have bitten the dust to date, may I ask? I don't see that picking out the worst examples of Islamic behavior is a good approach to problem solving - and does reflect the worst of the Islamic view of the west. Intolerance of 'them' never promoted tolerance, in my experience.
Also, you recall, the early Christians only adhered more strongly to Christianity because of the intolerance toward them.
(Those who will not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.)
And as to "We're proud of being white, etc.", Ahriman, on the off chance that you're not just being quarelsome, they didn't choose to be born to white parents, and it certainly isn't something achieved by dint of any effort, so what is the basis for the pride in it?
Ruth has it right, but here is the poem:
Now the Star-Belly Sneetches had bellies with stars.
The Plain-Belly Sneetches had none upon thars.
Those stars weren't so big. They were really so small.
You might think such a thing wouldn't matter at all.
Within the first 10 seconds of the new show of the same name, viewers will be offered the following Molotov cocktail of social criticism: "Jesus is black, Ronald Reagan is the devil and the government is lying about 9/11."
This is not only funny, points to the huge gap between what "Christian conservatives" claim and how they act.
Think about it, when Christ returns she's returning as a handicapped black lesbian. And watch how thick, like rain, will the Roman darts fall upon her from all the "Christians" in America.
"I don't see that picking out the worst examples of Islamic behavior is a good approach to problem solving - and does reflect the worst of the Islamic view of the west. Intolerance of 'them' never promoted tolerance, in my experience."
I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Are you suggesting that we should ban Piggy Banks? Are you suggesting that by saying we shouldn't ban Piggy Banks that I'm being tolerant? Are you saying that pressuring governments to ban 'The Three Little Pigs' from public libraries is one of the worst examples of Islamic behavior? Are you saying that by even talking about this I'm being intolerant?
"This is not only funny, points to the huge gap between what "Christian conservatives" claim and how they act. Think about it, when Christ returns she's returning as a handicapped black lesbian. And watch how thick, like rain, will the Roman darts fall upon her from all the "Christians" in America."
Why should this fantasy you have created about hypothetical events be seen as illustrative of anything other than what you yourself think? Afterall, no actual Christians were involved in the creation of your fantasy narrative, so why should it be a deep insight into anyone's character but your own?
Weird piece about the Dutch spelling reform.
First it has absolutely nothing to do with the EU. One of the Dutch language union members (Surinam) isn´t even in the EU.
Secondly i don´t understand the reason why they changed the rule as you always write names of (fictional) persons with a capital letter and this would mean that they would make an exception in this case.
ps. After some googling i got the real change. If you talk about the person than it is with a capital letter but if you talk about a christ statue than you write it with a small letter.
"...ps. After some googling i got the real change. If you talk about the person than it is with a capital letter but if you talk about a christ statue than you write it with a small letter."
Hmmm... that is interesting. Perhaps it really is a quirk of the language. Still...
I don't know about Dutch, but in English the phrase 'Christ statue' means exactly the same as 'statue of Christ'. For example, 'Lincoln memorial' means exactly the same as 'memorial of Lincoln'. From what little Dutch I've heard, its very similar to English.
How does Dutch makes these constructs? Does Dutch use 'Christ' as a general adjective, so that 'christ ' can mean anything other than 'a of Christ'. For example, does Dutch have the adjective, 'Napoleonic', meaning 'of or pertaining to the period of Napoleonic'. Would a phrase like 'Napoleon statue' in Dutch be more properly translated into English as 'Napoleonic statue', and hense be written in Dutch under the new rule as 'napoleon statue'?
Googling the phrase 'Napoleonic' in just Dutch sites gets me places like this:
http://www.nanweb.org/index2.html
celebrim, your characterization of Muslims' reaction being different from 'our' reaction: 'the 'artist' wasn't hiding in fear of violent retribution and gangs of Christian youths weren't rioting in New York or elsewhere.'
My piggy bank is serenely confident, I confess, not in hiding. But as noted, if we see violence as the nature of everyone Islamic, then we are carrying out the radicals' view of us as prejudiced against all Islam.
"celebrim, your characterization of Muslims' reaction being different from 'our' reaction: 'the 'artist' wasn't hiding in fear of violent retribution and gangs of Christian youths weren't rioting in New York or elsewhere.'
The pronoun 'our' has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's only easier for me to pick out as examples things people have done to make Christians uncomfortable. I would be just as happy considering comparing Buddists and Muslims, or Sihks and Mulsims, or whomever if I could only think of an example of popular culture doing something intentionally offensive to Sihks or Buddists. In fact, I'd be more happy to do that, because you wouldn't get distracted by assumptions about 'our'.
"My piggy bank is serenely confident, I confess, not in hiding."
That is not an answer to the question.
"But as noted, if we see violence as the nature of everyone Islamic..."
Stop there. You have just made a huge and unwarranted leap, and anything further you say will be based on a strawman. Until not so long ago, when he moved out of state, one of my best friends was Egyptian. I do not recall ever thinking of him as violent, or thinking that of anyone in his (rather pious) family.
It is a huge leap from noting that at present, violent intolerent behavior seems unusually common in Moslim society and suggesting that all Moslims are violent and intolerent.
You would seem to be suggesting one of several things, and again I'm not sure exactly what you are suggesting. Which of the following (if any) do you actually agree with?
a) There are no problems with violence or intolerance in present Islamic culture, and any time I see these problems then I'm only revealing my prejugdices.
b) Even if there are problems with a culture of violence or intolerance in present Islamic culture, these problems are no worse than those of any other present cultures.
c) Even if there are problems with a culture of violence or intolerance in present Islamic culture, these are excusible based on the fact that there is violence or intolerance in our own culture past or present.
d) Even if a culture of violence or intolerance exists in present Islamic culture, it is inherently racist to pass any judgement on that culture.
In essense, all I have so far suggested is that there there is a quanitative difference in Islamic culture and every other widespread culture currently on the planet, and you have suggested that I'm therefore proposing an absolute qualitative difference. In fact, to be completely accurate, I'm only proposing this quantitative difference exists in the Arab derived Wahhabist Salafist culture, and I'm making no such judgment about Islam or even Arabs as a whole. I probably should use the phrase Wahhabist where I mean it, but most people don't understand it, and unfortunately, in my defense, the Wahhabists have been so successful at evangelizing and prostlytizing in the past few decades (using the proceeds from oil wealth) that its increasingly easy to mean 'the majority of Islam' when you use the term.
celebrim: You certainly have a promising future as a poll question writer, but None Of The Above. Glad you reassure me that you do not have the tendency to blanket a whole segment of the world's population as violent, it was the impression I had gotten from your posts on this topic. Which I am glad concerns you as much as it does me. And yes, Wahhabists probably would better define a particular element - to the extent any particular element can be characterized en masse.
I recall you had a bad time during the floods/Katrina, and hope your babies are doing well?
You can call a statue of Christ a christ in Dutch so you get: Don´t forget to dust the christ. Same is i assume true of buddha when your talking about a statue. Don´t have "Het groene boekje" so i can´t check it but i think i´m correct.
ps. Buddha and i believe christ are also titles (but rarely used as such) but in the case you use it as a title than you also write it with a small letter.
As of a little bit before 1800 PST, I'm not finding Kambon's name on the specified page. FWIW.
Nort
#15 Andreas:
I'm not seeing the connection between your post and the thread. Is there one?
Nort
"#15 Andreas:
I'm not seeing the connection between your post and the thread. Is there one?
Nort"
It's on topic. As best as I can tell he's trying to say that one of the items on the list under "Race and Culture" is not in fact hate but comedy.