There's a really good piece by Newsweek's Christopher Dickey on the phenomenon of female suicide bombers within Islamist terrorist groups, prompted by all the commentary that's been thrown around, particularly in the European media, concerning Muriel Degauque, a Belgian woman who served as an al-Qaeda suicide bomber in Baqubah on November 9.
I'm not as surprised as some by the idea of a European woman serving as a suicide bomber for several reasons, not the least of which being the number of European men who've been known to serve as suicide bombers as well as by the phenomenon of "black widows" in Chechnya that Dickey spends some time discussing in his piece. While I'll admit that I was as shocked as anyone else at the sight of more than a dozen female Chechen suicide bombers showed up with Movsar Barayev in that Moscow theater back in 2002, in the 3 years since it's become such an increasing and effective phenomenon in Chechnya and the surrounding republics to the point that it's naive to think that it wouldn't be used against US forces in Iraq.
To put it simply, the Chechen "black widow" phenomenon (like all of the other mass casualty terrorist attacks in Chechnya) have been overseen by Shamil Basayev and his followers. These are the guys for whom the recently deceased Abu Omar al-Saif served as the paymaster of and bin Laden even saw fit to list the Moscow theater seige among the terrorist attacks he took credit for in his November 2002 audiotape. While I can understand the argument that Basayev is probably more of an opportunist and has decided that al-Qaeda and Salafism are the most likely ways to get him ruling the North Caucasus, it is indisputable that they have been widely embraced within international jihadist circles. Under such circumstances, I think it's naive at best to assume that bin Laden, al-Zawahiri, and the rest of the senior al-Qaeda leadership doesn't approve of these actions, though they might refrain from saying so openly for fear of alienating some of their more traditional supporters. These are people who have used mentally handicapped teenagers as suicide bombers, for God's sake. Are we really supposed to think that they'd refrain from using women the same way simply because they purport hold to some chivalric ideals of protecting a lady's virtue? Talk about over-intellectualizing an understanding of the enemy.
One of the things that people tend to forget in course of this discussion is that suicide bombing is an extremely recent phenomenon that only dates back about 20 years and that it's only come into vogue recently, in large part due to al-Qaeda. With the exception of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (where suicide bombing has even been utilized by Marxist groups like the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestinian), the fact that you're dealing with an Islamist group that favors mass casualty suicide attacks should be one of your first clues that you're dealing with an al-Qaeda-influenced group. One of the more disturbing things that has emerged since 9/11, however, is the sheer number of al-Qaeda and allied recruits willing to blow themselves up with little if any exposure to the kind of "death cult" environment that exists inside the Palestinian territories.
Dan -- Aren't the Tamil Tigers though the "pioneers" if you want to accord that dubious honor of suicide bombing? I thought they were the folks who pretty much started it in the 1980s on the large scale.
It's kind of a stupid tactic though. Lose knowledge expertise which even the lowest militant will possess some; along with a future political base of supporters. Liberal Westerners view it in awe, as "desperate people pushed to desperate measures" instead of seeing it as a monumentally stupid tactic.
Jim Rockford:
Yeah, the LTTE were suicide bombing (even using women and children) before it was cool, they even developed the bomb-vest that has since been widely copied. Until recently they held the record for the most number of bombings too, though with all the attacks that have occurred in Iraq it's hard to believe that Zarqawi isn't catching up with them for that dubious distinction. LTTE is also the only group ever to have killed a head of state, two of them in fact.
Anybody who's seriously interested in the LTTE should check out Gunaratna's earlier work on the subject. It was his main area of interest (not surprising since he is himself Sri Lankan) before he started work on al-Qaeda and is quite good.
What really troubles me regarding these suicide bombers of european orign is the fact that they can catch a flight to the USA without any visas. Hopefully, members of congress look at this issue before these nutcases end up right here, to inflict damages. By the way, do the female suicide bombers await what-72 studs in heaven? Just thinking.
Yes, I am strongly in favor of Europeans at least being asked to swear on a Bible or Koran or UN Charter that they denounce Al Qaeda...with an unassuming wrist pad utilized to detect liars. I assume that face recognition software is looking for any woman known to hang out with anti-American Muslims in places like Belgium or Venezuela (or sadly Canada) where the societies provide tons of background sympathy for the "Muslims oppressed by imperialism" (implied and stated) that provide a positive feedback loop to terrorists. Jeez. As if it liberals in Belgium don't clearly see how they egged this poor woman on. And they don't. I live next to Belgium. The liberals there are shocked, shocked I tell you...and are, of course, blaming Bush for her actions which is the same as praising her actions.
Meanwhile, yes, kamikaze operations in history are to be encouraged in a controlled burn situation where you try to get as many of them as possible to go off in a short amount of time as possible with zero results.
The zero results and the tremendous self-induced carnage among your own suicide force...causes a backlash in the society you are supposed to be fighting for.
Rockford:
You forget the expertise stays with the group. They never send out real terrorists only dupes.
PS: I forgot to mention coerced, bribed. bullied. Do not forget that in Palestine there are women who breed bombers for the income stream.
They bred bombers for the income stream when Saddam and the Baathists still had $20B worth of oil revenues per year coming in. Now the enemy still has $30B of Iranian oil per year. When that is taken away, funding for terrorism will drop to a trickle and anti-Americanism will primarily be funded only by Venezuelan oil money.
The Newsweek article was surprisingly informed and didn't show any outward blame for US forces liquidating these women's husbands in large numbers. I suppose the writers left room for their radical leftist readership to conclude that we, like the Russians in Chechnya, shouldn't have been slaughtering their husbands in the first place...when their husbands had been the ones BEGGING westerners to fight them (Saddam's Baathist Party goaded Bush to attack Iraq every single day via the Baathist press which glorified the 9-11 bombers every day).
Also, a reader without Bush Derangement Syndrome (BDS) would see, and it was indeed stated in the article, that most likely Jihad in Iraq is running out of willing male recruits...precisely at the time when the new Shiite Government starts the real crackdown on Sunni anti-government attitudes.
Meanwhile the US Army and Marines are exceeding recruitment quotas...young men from the Red States are more than willing to help Jihadis get their 72 virgins. As much as leftists might wish that the American people have lost their will to democratize the Middle East and crush the medieval Islamic culture...it would only take one small car bomb in the USA to get another regime change and high level mullahs strung up by the dozen by their own people.
Speaking of 72 virgins...these women obviously had husbands who wanted to cheat on them with 72 virgins.
Dan,
Suicide bombing is not that new, but suicide attackers hopped up on drugs is literally millennia old. The Assassins of the Crusades are one example as are the Thug gee of India.
The American Army faced the suicide warriors of the Moro in the Philippines in the late 19th and early 20th century. They were the reason why the .45 caliber M1911 pistol was developed.
In short, thy do people have such a hard time understanding that we are fighting a death cult?
This is what death cults do. Death is their lover. They adore death and their biggest victims ate their cult followers.
Grrr.. that should read
They adore death and their biggest victims are their cult followers.
Dan, Are you not a little uninformed about suicide attackers? They have been around for aeons.
And what's with the big surprise about women in the military?
You also seem married to al-Queda being a functioning entity. I consider it a straw man.
tom vikander:
Given that you also seem to embrace the Iraqi insurgency, I think it's quite fair to say that there are a number of areas in which we simply don't agree.
Does that mean you agree with the continued AngloAmerican occupation of Iraq, Dan?
I am a Muslim girl, and I'd like to say a few things.
First of all, 72 virgin things is an Al Qaeda belief. Islam does not allow a man to marry more than 4 times, let alone having sex with 72 virgins!
Islam says that if only a man can provide for 4 women and take care of them equally, then he can only have up to 4 wives. For a man to have sex with 72 virgins would be breaking his loyalty to his religion. It's shameful to Muslims that people of Al Qaeda call themselves Muslims! They should only be called Terriosts.
I think it's kind of funny how people look at female suicide bombers. Is this not a war? War has these kinds of things. Is it not normal for a woman to be fighting in a war? It's happened before has it not?
I really hate it how that article makes all Muslim woman seem like suicide bombers. Though I may not live in the Middle East anymore, I wish some people did. I grew up in Saudi Arabia, and never in my 7 years there was there a case of bombers, or such. It was so quite and peaceful, but now, the image of the Middle East is shattered.
I hope one day you people go there yourselves and see what it's really like. Because the news and TV doesn't show everthing.
Someone: "72 virgin things is an Al Qaeda belief."
It is also a Hamas belief, and it far predates al Qaeda.
"For a man to have sex with 72 virgins would be breaking his loyalty to his religion."
Not in Paradise, it isn't. The belief in a decadent paradise is widespread and ancient; for example, it goes back to the Assassins (Hashish-Eaters) of the Crusades. Take a look at Sura 56 of the Koran, verse 12-23:
The Arabic word tranlsated as "virgin" is hur, and its meaning is made plain in Sura 55 (69-74):
So that's virgin women, not raisins or angels. However, the number 72 is not specified in the Koran. That comes from Hadith 2687, verse 72:
TO GLEN WISHARD:
SUICIDE BOMBING PROMOTED IN THE BIBLE:
The story of the Mighty Samson:
"Self sacrifice" and giving your life away intentionally and taking as many enemy lives with you as possible for the sake of GOD Almighty and your people exists in the Bible. Let us look at the story of the Mighty Samson in the Bible:
"Samson said to the servant who held his hand, "Put me where I can feel the pillars that support the temple, so that I may lean against them." Now the temple was crowded with men and women; all the rulers of the Philistines were there, and on the roof were about three thousand men and women watching Samson perform. Then Samson prayed to the LORD, "O Sovereign LORD , remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes." Then Samson reached toward the two central pillars on which the temple stood. Bracing himself against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other, Samson said, "Let me die with the Philistines!" Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived. (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:26-30)"
Note: I called him "Mighty Samson" because he was extremely powerful. He was far much more stronger than all men in his time.
As we clearly see from the Bible, Samson gave his life for his people by killing as much from the enemy as possible.
Samson prayed to GOD to give him back his power (Samson lost his power after the seven braids of his hair were shaven by Delilah and her people while he was sleeping, Judges 16:1-20), and GOD Almighty granted him that revoked power back. Samson then was able to bring the temple down upon him and his enemies.
Question was raised to me: I was asked to show a proof that GOD Almighty approved of Samson's suicide that killed himself and his enemies. Well, GOD Almighty apparently knew what Samson was up to and thus He decided to grant him his revoked power back to enable him to kill himself and his enemies. So therefore, GOD Almighty did approve of Samson's action. Otherwise, why would GOD give back Samson his power after revoking it from him? And didn't He know about Samson's plan and intentions of suicide?
Another Question raised to me: I was asked to show from the Bible where did GOD Almighty indeed grant Samson his power back so he can commit suicide in the intention of taking his enemies with him. Well, let us read Judges 16:19-22:
"Having put him to sleep on her lap, she called a man to shave off the seven braids of his hair, and so began to subdue him. And his strength left him. Then she called, "Samson, the Philistines are upon you!" He awoke from his sleep and thought, "I'll go out as before and shake myself free." But he did not know that the LORD had left him. Then the Philistines seized him, gouged out his eyes and took him down to Gaza. Binding him with bronze shackles, they set him to grinding in the prison. But the hair on his head began to grow again after it had been shaved. (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:19-22)"
Now let us read Judges 16:28:
"Then Samson prayed to the LORD, "O Sovereign LORD , remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes." (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:28)"
Here we see that GOD Almighty apparently gave Samson the chance to get his power back through growing his hair back. GOD Almighty wanted for Samson to take his own life and the life of his enemies with him. He willed for him to die this way. He could've simply willed for Samson to die on the spot after his enemies gouged his eyes for him. But no, instead, GOD Almighty decided for Samson to die while enabling him to take as many pagan Philistines with him as possible.
GOD in the Bible actually makes the point very clear: "Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived. (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:30)"
My challenge to all Jews and Christians: Show me in the Bible where GOD Almighty condemned the actions of Samson.
So to all of those hypocrites from Jewish and Christian Rabies and Ministers who call the Palestinian Suicide Martyrs as "Homicide Bombers", how are the Palestinians today different from what Samson did before?
I don't blame the regular Jews and Christians because they don't know much about their Bible. But I do have a great deal of problem with the hypocrites and the Pedophiles of the Churches who know everything about their porn-full bible, the book of women's breasts and vaginas taste like wine, and brothers and sisters sleeping with each others (see the proofs and quotes for yourself from the porn-full bible), because they clearly have double standards. They are clearly contradicting themselves and their porn-full bible.
SUICIDE BOMBING PROMOTED IN THE BIBLE:
The story of the Mighty Samson:
"Self sacrifice" and giving your life away intentionally and taking as many enemy lives with you as possible for the sake of GOD Almighty and your people exists in the Bible. Let us look at the story of the Mighty Samson in the Bible:
"Samson said to the servant who held his hand, "Put me where I can feel the pillars that support the temple, so that I may lean against them." Now the temple was crowded with men and women; all the rulers of the Philistines were there, and on the roof were about three thousand men and women watching Samson perform. Then Samson prayed to the LORD, "O Sovereign LORD , remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes." Then Samson reached toward the two central pillars on which the temple stood. Bracing himself against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other, Samson said, "Let me die with the Philistines!" Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived. (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:26-30)"
Note: I called him "Mighty Samson" because he was extremely powerful. He was far much more stronger than all men in his time.
As we clearly see from the Bible, Samson gave his life for his people by killing as much from the enemy as possible.
Samson prayed to GOD to give him back his power (Samson lost his power after the seven braids of his hair were shaven by Delilah and her people while he was sleeping, Judges 16:1-20), and GOD Almighty granted him that revoked power back. Samson then was able to bring the temple down upon him and his enemies.
Question was raised to me: I was asked to show a proof that GOD Almighty approved of Samson's suicide that killed himself and his enemies. Well, GOD Almighty apparently knew what Samson was up to and thus He decided to grant him his revoked power back to enable him to kill himself and his enemies. So therefore, GOD Almighty did approve of Samson's action. Otherwise, why would GOD give back Samson his power after revoking it from him? And didn't He know about Samson's plan and intentions of suicide?
Another Question raised to me: I was asked to show from the Bible where did GOD Almighty indeed grant Samson his power back so he can commit suicide in the intention of taking his enemies with him. Well, let us read Judges 16:19-22:
"Having put him to sleep on her lap, she called a man to shave off the seven braids of his hair, and so began to subdue him. And his strength left him. Then she called, "Samson, the Philistines are upon you!" He awoke from his sleep and thought, "I'll go out as before and shake myself free." But he did not know that the LORD had left him. Then the Philistines seized him, gouged out his eyes and took him down to Gaza. Binding him with bronze shackles, they set him to grinding in the prison. But the hair on his head began to grow again after it had been shaved. (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:19-22)"
Now let us read Judges 16:28:
"Then Samson prayed to the LORD, "O Sovereign LORD , remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes." (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:28)"
Here we see that GOD Almighty apparently gave Samson the chance to get his power back through growing his hair back. GOD Almighty wanted for Samson to take his own life and the life of his enemies with him. He willed for him to die this way. He could've simply willed for Samson to die on the spot after his enemies gouged his eyes for him. But no, instead, GOD Almighty decided for Samson to die while enabling him to take as many pagan Philistines with him as possible.
GOD in the Bible actually makes the point very clear: "Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived. (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:30)"
My challenge to all Jews and Christians: Show me in the Bible where GOD Almighty condemned the actions of Samson.
So to all of those hypocrites from Jewish and Christian Rabies and Ministers who call the Palestinian Suicide Martyrs as "Homicide Bombers", how are the Palestinians today different from what Samson did before?
I don't blame the regular Jews and Christians because they don't know much about their Bible. But I do have a great deal of problem with the hypocrites and the Pedophiles of the Churches who know everything about their porn-full bible, the book of women's breasts and vaginas taste like wine, and brothers and sisters sleeping with each others (see the proofs and quotes for yourself from the porn-full bible), because they clearly have double standards. They are clearly contradicting themselves and their porn-full bible.
Thanks for the bible lesson there, Amro.
Next time I grow long hair and become super powerful, then perhaps I will start considering suicide bombing. Until then, however, I'll stick to my full knowledge of my belief system (The Great Pumpkin) without resorting to someone else cherry-picking various Charlie Brown episodes to make fun of me.
I love religious discussions. "Your religion sucks!" "No! Your religion sucks!" "No! You!" "No! You!" and so on.
I will say that Christianity seems capable of having secular societies, pluralistic societies, banking, an independent judiciary, etc. 99% of the rest of the world are with us, but a few would want to go back to Caliphate and shariah. It's not that I disagree -- it just doesn't work in the modern world. If somebody defecated on the bible and dressed up in drag making fun of Jerry Falwell, we wouldn't try to kill him. We'd probably give him a TV show. That's not because we are decadent. It's because we've learned better. We've learned how to get along with each other.
Suicide bombing by targeting innocent civilians is not acceptable anymore. It's a new rule. We just made it up. The problem is that you end up killing people who have nothing to do with your cause.
BUT AGAIN THERE ARE NO VERSES IN THE KORAN THAT EVER JUSTIFY THE KILLING OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN BY NAME INTENTIONALLY, COMPARE IT TO THIS VERSE:
"The LORD said to Moses, 'Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites…. The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps…. (Moses ordered) "Now kill all the boys. And kill every women who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." Numbers 31: 1-18
Deuteronomy 20:13-20
13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword (even the unarmed ones):
14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.
15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.
16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.
19 When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against them: for thou mayest eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life) to employ them in the siege:
20 Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, thou shalt destroy and cut them down; and thou shalt build bulwarks against the city that maketh war with thee, until it be subdued.
In the following verses we see the following:
1- All men, including the unarmed ones, were to be executed (Deuteronomy 20:13).
2- All women and children were to be taken as spoils of war (Deuteronomy 20:14).
3- For the others, kill and destroy every creature that is breathing - that is all men, women, children and animals (Deuteronomy 20:16-17).
:
"All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman. (From the NIV Bible, 2 Chronicles 15:13)"
My open challenge to Jews and Christians:
Jews and Christians today often talk about the lie of "Islamic Terrorism". I openly challenge any Jew or Christian to produce ONE, JUST ONE Noble Verse from the Muslims' Noble Quran that condones killing of innocent children, women or even hostile enemy men who drop their weapons before Muslims (surrender).
See the Rights of Prisoners of War in Islam. http://www.answering-christianity.com/prisoners_of_war.htm
I would like to add that The Great Pumpkin, book 7, verse 12, specifically says that fighting is not so good. Even with tribalistic goat copulators.
Unless they are planning to kill innocents. In which case, all bets are off.
I know there is nobody speaking for The Great Pumpkin on this board, so I thought I would help out.
If the stupidity and dishonesty here were any more palpable, it would require a title and an award.
BUT AGAIN THERE ARE NO VERSES IN THE KORAN THAT EVER JUSTIFY THE...blah blah blah...
And yet, Amro, the people who keep doing these things for which you tell us there is no Qur'anic justification....... are Muslims. Funny that. yes, yes, I know, they're not REAL Muslims. Haven't we heard THAT a million times? Well, Amro, I have some unfortunate news for you. They say the exact same thing about you.
No, Amro, the people blowing stuff up, cutting people's heads off, suicide bombing (despite your venal ejaculations about Biblical exhortations regarding warfare, etc) are not those convenient old Muslim polemical targets, the Christians and Jews, but rather....wait for it.....Muslims.
Now, one wonders why anyone would think that Islam promulgates violence? Perhaps it is the 164 jihad verses, or perhaps the many Qur'anic verses advocating violence, like 2:190-193, 2:224, 2:216, 3:157-158, 3:169, 3:195, 4:101, 4:74-75, 4:89, 4:95, 5:36, 5:54, 8:12-17, 8:59-60, 8:65, 9:5, 9:14, 9:29, 47:4, 61:4, to name a few.
But all that aside, here's my challenge to you, my mendacious pretender:
Why are you telling US this?
Because last time I checked, none of us were blowing people up or cutting people's heads off shouting "Allahu Akbar".
But there are plenty of people who do, aren't there, Amro Gaber? And every single one of them claims, just as I'm sure you do, to be a devout Muslim. How do I know that? Not through my mental telepathy, I assure you, but rather because they scream it at me at the top of their voice from the mosques and minarets. Do you deny it? Because I can cite a thousand quotes from Islamic religious leaders advocating all the things you have so vociferously denied, starting with Sayyid Abu'l-A'la Mawdudi and Sayyid Qutb.
So I ask again, why not tell them?
Oh, that's right. If you do, they'll kill you.
The point, Amro, is not whether the Qur'an says it or not, but rather that many of your brothers and sisters thinks it does. The sooner you accept that and start helping to correct that problem instead of trying to be an apologist for it the better off you'll be. The patience of the West with your kind of doublespeak is waning, and when it finally does, we will be far less discriminate about who is and is not a "good" Muslim.
God help us all if it ever comes to that.
Tone it down a few notches everyone, please.
Bottom line and I think Sirius Black (glad to see they finally let you out of prison :p is trying to make this point - the correct interpretation of various Qu'ranic verses is (at least for me as a Catholic), irrelevant, just as the correct interpretation of various Bible verses is irrelevant for a Muslim. The point is that the verses and suras from the former are being used by unscrupulous people (assuming Amro Gaber accepts the above characterization for bin Laden, Zarqawi, and Basayev) to promote a totalitarian political ideology. That is the whole reason that so many non-Muslims are talking about said verses and suras are coming to people's attention to begin with, no what the proper method of exegesis for said passages are.
Amro: So to all of those hypocrites from Jewish and Christian Rabies ...
Reminds me of a line from George C. Scott in Exorcist III, describing a question an officer failed on the poilce exam:
Q: What are rabies, and what would you do for them?
A: Rabies are Jewish priests, and I would do anything I possibly could for them.