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December 12, 2005Monday's Winds of War: 12 Dec 2005by WoW Team Monday at December 12, 2005 4:41 AM
Welcome! Our goal at Winds of Change.NET is to give you one power-packed briefing of insights, news and trends from the global War on Terror that leaves you stimulated, informed, and occasionally amused every Monday & Thursday. Monday's Winds of War briefings are given by Peace Like a River and Security Watchtower. Top Topics
Other topics today include: Hezbollah leader escapes assassination; Israeli airstrikes in Gaza; Abdullah's reform; Sharon orders strike preparations; Kuwaiti oil security; Israeli raids in West Bank; Egyptian cleric deported from US; Bolivian elections; Saudi leader killed in Chechnya; Terror arrests in Bangladesh; Suicide bomber in Afghanistan; Counterterror raids in Australia; Malaysia cracks down on extremism; Spain arrests al Qaeda suspects; al Qaeda in Albania; 9/11 suspect convicted; hijack attempt off coast of Somalia; Cyberwarfare and much more. Iran & the Middle East
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Comments
The Sunday Times piece about Israel preparing to bomb Iran was written by the 'journalist' who 'reported' that Israel was working on 'ethno-weapons' to wipe out the Arabs, but leave Israelis alive. He was also the journalist noted Israel-hater Mordechai Vanunu went to about Israel's alleged nuclear arsenal. The Israelis know just how serious an Iranian nuclear weapon is, how difficult an attack on Iran would be and how vital it is that they succeed. Note that the 'sources' are military, or defence, not political. Politicians regularly screw their countries for headlines and prestige, but soldiers? Good points all, Colt. This story just doesn't feel right. Tigerhawk has a post where his reasoning is that Israel leaked this as a warning to Iran. I don't know that I agree with that. I don't think it's really Israel's style to make threats in public. They do such things in private. The problems with Israel making an air attack on Iran are significant. (Fuel, finding the targets, etc...) I can't see Israel making threats if they can't follow up on them, it will just make them look weak in the end. Perhaps this is coming from Sharon's opponents. There must be some unhappy people with Sharon leaving the Likud party. Perhaps someone is trying to influence things. You give evidence that at least suggests this could be the case. Im not as up on Israel's weapons programs as i might be. Anybody have any insight into their cruise missile capabilities? Seems to me this would be the way to go.
#4 from celebrim at 7:29 pm on Dec 12, 2005
Given the round trip distance of the mission, the need to fly over potentially hostile airspace (Saudia Arabia) enroute to the targets, the potential of accidental conflict with US assets in the region, and Iran's recently upgraded air defense capabilities, I believe Iran's nuclear weapon's infrastructure would be extremely difficult to take out with less than nuclear weapons. Given the high political costs of failure or success with a conventional attack, and given the political fallout associated with a preemptive nuclear attack, I don't foresee Israel attempting any operation against Iran's facilities. I would expect that given the current rhetoric coming out of Iran, an Iranian nuclear test would probably invite nuclear retaliation by Israel, but then again, I wouldn't put it past the Iranians to conduct thier first nuclear tests in Israeli airspace. Celebrim, You bring up something that is implicit in all this. I don't see how Israel could pull off an air attack on Iran without US involvement (e.g. refueling, intelligence, AWACS, etc...) If we're in for a penny, we're in for a pound, and might as well do it ourselves, or participate. We wouldn't get away with hiding behind Israel.
#6 from celebrim at 8:43 pm on Dec 12, 2005
"You bring up something that is implicit in all this. I don't see how Israel could pull off an air attack on Iran without US involvement (e.g. refueling, intelligence, AWACS, etc...)" Ok, fine. But, suppose you do put US assests on the table, what does adding Israel to the alliance actually provide the US? Right. You are essentially saying that since the Israeli's can't do it, that we should do it for them. I can't see that happening. I can see the US considering a Iranian nuclear attack on Israel to be an act of war with the US because of the implication of what would come next, both tacit and publicly made by the leadership of Iran. I can see the US making a preemptive nuclear strike on Iran if it believes it has actionable intelligence that Iran is planning on exporting a nuclear weapon or using a nuclear weapon either on Israel or US assets in the region (Iraq, Bahrain). What I can't see is the US simply jumping in on Israel's behalf. Given that the US would be a less than willing ally, and that the Israeli's know that we would likely object to the plan, I don't think that Israeli's would even inform Washington about the operation until after it was in the air - thus my comment about accidental conflict with US assests in the region. Also, I believe for similar reasons that Israel would not try to launch the operation through Iraqi air space and put the US in the position of either abetting the operation or putting its planes up against Israeli ones. I suspect that if Israel went through Saudi air space, that the Saudi's would be publically outraged and say all the usual things but - seeing as the Saudi's are no friends of Iran either - would do nothing militarily to stop it. However, nothing is certain in this world. All and all, there are just too many complications in this operation. I can't imagine any Western leader giving it the go ahead until the bomb is built and its being loaded on a ICBM. The risks outweigh the rewards otherwise. #2 Jeff
If it did come from a political party, I'd bet on Kadima. They need to look tougher than Bibi on Iran (denying Iran nukes is about as uncontroveresial an issue you're likely to come across in Israeli politics). When you've got Iran threatening to wipe Israel off the map, Israel's military intelligence chief saying March is the point of no return, etc, a report - even one denied by the IDF - that behind the scenes, Israel is preparing to attack Iran will reassure the Israeli public. #3 Mark Buehner The Jericho is the main Israeli SSM. Google for more. The Israelis can do it. Their F-15i's (and f-16i's to a lesser extent) were specifically chosen for their ability to strike into Iran. Their AF has the ability to attempt it single handedly, so long as we allow them the airspace through Iraq. However it happens, it ought to happen before the Iranians set up their new Russian missile system. It will make an already very complex mission much harder.
#10 from celebrim at 1:01 am on Dec 13, 2005
"The Israelis can do it. Their F-15i's (and f-16i's to a lesser extent) were specifically chosen for their ability to strike into Iran. Their AF has the ability to attempt it single handedly, so long as we allow them the airspace through Iraq...There is a problem, however. The IAF can undoubtedly hit a number of targets in Iran, but can it hit all of them?" There is an inherent contridiction in that. At first you say they can 'do it', but then latter once we admit what 'it' is, you admit that they probably can't 'do it'. I have little doubt that the IAF could execute a successful attack on a single hardened installation in Iran. But that is not the situation. The IAF must successfully identify and hit a relatively large number of widely scattered hardened and unhardened targets. That I don't think that they can do under the circumstances. "The Israelis are willing to take their jets into the heart of Iran (which may give us pause politically). If that is indeed the reality on the ground, it could end up the US providing the missiles to supress Iranian air defenses and hit the less hardened targets, while the Israelis go 'downtown' and take out the hardened targets." Any military aid we offer at all will be percieved as making us full partners in the raid. If we decide to throw in our chips with an Israeli raid, we might as well go all in. But this is pure fantasy. If the US were to decide to take out the Iranian facilities, why would we want the Israeli's to help? A joint US-IAF operation offers almost no benefit to the US, and comes with additional political risk. A US raid on Iran would be greeted with world-wide political uproar, but it would be nothing compared to the sort of uproar that we'd endure if we went in with the IAF. If the US went in alone against Iran, Saudi Arabia would probably take a tone of moderate disapproval publicly, and privately be only slightly worried. They are afterall 'only Shites'. The same could be said for many erstwhile allies who find anti-americanism and the UN publically useful, but privately worry about Iranian ambition. If the US went against Iran with Israel, then you could expect the Saudi's - and much of Zerope to publicly and privately outraged. They are afterall 'joooos'. "If you cant hit decisively with the first sortie, then you have to start talking about dismantling the Iranian air defenses and AF, and suddenly you have a campaign instead of a raid, and the difference between that and a shooting war is semantic." Make no mistake about it. The current Iranian regime will see a US raid on thier nuclear assets as an existenialist act, because they understand what it implies for the US's future course of action. The Iranians are already 'all in' with this hand. They aren't bluffing, and if we call we should be prepared to handle the consequences, and the difference between the consequences and a shooting war are purely semantic. "Make no mistake about it. The current Iranian regime will see a US raid on thier nuclear assets as an existenialist act, because they understand what it implies for the US's future course of action. The Iranians are already 'all in' with this hand. They aren't bluffing, and if we call we should be prepared to handle the consequences, and the difference between the consequences and a shooting war are purely semantic." Thats not necessarily true. Imagine if you will a big chunk of the Iranian nuclear program going up in smoke in one night. Certainly Iran will be obliged to launch some cursory counter attacks, probably against shipping in the Gulf, likely an attempt to mine, and certainly stirring up trouble in Iraq. But will they really go to all out war? In fact Iran is not 'all in' because they still retain a potent weapon, their oil wells. They will quickly discover this is a sword with two edges. Iran only exists as a power due to their oil revenues, yet to fight the United States those wells automatically join the target list. What we would do well to threaten is the "Iron Eagle" option (Iran Eagle?). The point of a raid is that the next day we say the shooting is over and no further agression will be begun or tolerated. We further note that our first targets will be Iranian oil assets. Iran will have the choice between backing down or losing a trillion in oil and effectively ending its aspirations to be a power for decades to come. This puts them on the horns of a dilemna. If they choose to fight, they will lose, badly. If they choose not to they have been cowed. Either way, we win without a single soldier setting foot in Iran. The reason Israel can be helpful to us is that American aircraft getting shot down over Iran or pilots being captured would be a political nightmare that could ruin the entire plan. If its Israelis doing the legwork and the US standing off with missile help, that risk is negated. Israel will accept losses, in our current political situation such a thing could plausibly sweep a peacenick into the white house (or turn over the congress) willing to give back all our gains.
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