Disgusting.

Simply disgusting. Someone tries to beat and rob me, much less rape a woman in my presence, they get to meet my foot in their chest(I'm a taekwondo guy, what can I say)...and if I'm feeling particularly nasty, they also get to meet the business end of mr. handgun.

A pack, not a herd, indeed.

Everyone should remember this story becuase this is the result of people voting in a peace-love-&-happiness government. So when old Skerry or Hitlery gets on TV talkin about thier abitions for the nation remember this story becuase it is a window into our possible future.

C-Low: I think you could have made your point without the namecalling. See the Winds comment policy.

I really doubt that asking for female support was necessary or called for....what should have been asked for....was just where in the "hell", were the MEN?
But then we are talking about France. You recall the question, how many men would it take to defend Paris? Who KNOWS.... they have never tried!
GOSH, just changed my mind, why wasn't there any female help? Really have to wonder about those French People. You have to help yourself befor worrying about the rest of the world. But that young woman will live the rest of her life, remembering what a bunch of gutless people allowed to happen to her...........
Hope they burn in HELL
Swede1

Swede, I can't tell if you are C-Low or not. But the first post you tried to make wound up on a random thread in my blog, not here at WoC</>. You're angry about this situation. So am I. The namecalling I was talking about was C-Low's "Hitlery" thing. It's gratuitous.

I repeat, this situation (if it's substantially as reported) angers me greatly, too. It makes the Kitty Genovese story sound like Boy Scouts doing a good turn.

Remember the Central Park jogger, anyone? There are probably plenty more like it. It happens.

The scandale is that the police would not intervene, pending bureaucratic approval ... and that government and media alike collaborated to pretend the whole thing never happened, and persist in trying to erase the 'muslim' aspect.

Had it been a group of drunken Israeli (former) soldiers involved the coverage would have been vastly different, n'est-ce pas?

I am not surprised. Neither at the behavior of the French media, who declared the riots over even though they are still a nightly occurrence; nor at the behavior of the police, who have been like that in France (at least as far as concerns the banlieus) for some time; nor at the behavior of the Muslim men themselves, since there have been a series of such public gang rapes in Europe (the last I read about was in Sweden, IIRC); nor at the behavior of the men on the train who didn't intervene, which again has been the norm in incidents of Muslim terrorism in Europe for some reason.

Disgusted, yes. But not surprised.

That is the dumbest story ever. The French police do not have to wait for an invitation to board a train when a suspected crime is being committed. In other words this story is total bullshit.

However, I am not surprised you repeat it. Nor am I surprised the above commentators have no more common sense than you.

slating this as something that could not happen here is a dangerous sentiment. look what happens when nefarious individuals are caught here, in our own country; http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=4319605&nav=4QcT

yuk.

Don't believe everything you read or see on T.V. You ought to know by now how certain things are sensationalized depending on the agenda. Its rampant on both sides of the isle. You really are reaching if you think anyone in America should be outraged about this obsecure event. There are greater attrocities being committed right here on the streets of America. Where's the outrage here?

Great, if the story is false, I'd enjoy seeing a refutation of it.

"You really are reaching if you think anyone in America should be outraged about this obsecure event. There are greater attrocities being committed right here on the streets of America."

Yeh? Where? Please cite.

Had it been a group of drunken Israeli (former) soldiers involved the coverage would have been vastly different, n'est-ce pas?

Doubt it. These scum are just one of the infections Europe doesn't have the antibodies to fight.

As for this:

Three gendarmes arrive. They have to wait an hour and a half for a formal complaint before they could board the train.

It may well be true that gendarmes have to wait for a formal complaint, but if it were 30 gendarmes and three criminals, I doubt they'd wait. I reckon they were happy to have regulations to 'prevent' them from going in.

Hmmmm.

What's even more interesting is, from the Washington Times I think, is that the these miscreants were put on the train by the authorities of Nice! I.e. they were put on the train by the city government of Nice to get them out of town before they could cause trouble.

Evidently the rail system had a New Year's discount of $1 to travel to Nice and these troublemakers took advantage of it.

How crazy is that?

Not to worry, Jumpin' Jaques Chirac has responding that this is "totally unacceptable,"... "Those guilty will be found and punished, as they deserve." (Washington Times). Silly us for getting upset.

I have at my blog a link to last evening's France2 news broadcast which you can watch (in French). The details of the story as listed by ¡No Pasarán! and Winds of Change are accurate and match the information reported in the (government owned) France2 newscast.

"What's even more interesting is, from the Washington Times I think, is that the these miscreants were put on the train by the authorities of Nice! I.e. they were put on the train by the city government of Nice to get them out of town before they could cause trouble"

Its actually not that unusual, at least in smaller towns in the US. Local sherriff will sometimes put a trouble making vagrant on a greyhound to the next town because its cheaper than busting the guy. You'll hear stories about deadbeats getting bussed from town to town.

Tis stuff does happen in the USA. It happens in our leftist run ghetto schools. Everytime liberals take control chaos ensues.

In the schools they will not discpline or punish wrong doers because it would "hurt" their self esteem.

I have seen this before, wit was garbage like this in public school that has turned me off aganist liberalism and the peacenik way.

In 1980 I worked in France as a Charge de Researche for the french CNRS. I had an apartment in Paris right by Saint Germain de Pres. One summer's night, when it was quite warm, i was sleeping with the window open when the a woman started screaming outside in english. I yelled out 'what the hell is going on out there!' The lady yelled back 'in the name of god, save me.' So I ran down five flights of stairs dressed in blue jeans, no shirt or shoes. There was a french guy, well dressed, beating her in the middle of the street. I told the idiot to let her go three times, but he ignored me. So I stepped in and stopped it. A large crowd had gathered, but none of them, men or women, did a thing. After I stopped it, lots of french guys shook my hand and told me what a great thing I'd done.

Girls, if you get in trouble, you'd better hope there is an american nearby. The french are useless.

In all the stories I read about the fall rioting in France, only one article mentioned a group that fought back: Russian tourists armed only with restaurant cutlery. Didn't the French tell them that's not the polite thing to do? Where did they think they were, Leningrad '42?

You guys are pathetic. Thanks for the laugh.

Crimes are committed by criminals, both here and abroad. Sometimes alone, sometimes in groups. Generally, it's not because of their cultural upbringing or their religious background. The vast majority of "Moroccans of African Descent" and "Muslims" are peaceful and law-abiding citizens. Playing the "discredit to their race" card is a cheap, uncalled-for shot.

Hey Anarchist...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Anarchist,

When 30-some Muslim men gang-rape a woman, it's a discredit to Muslims everywhere, nothing less. To dismiss this crime as a laugh is grossly callous.

I'll bet you thought Abu Ghraib was an outrage that besmirched the entire US military. The military personnel involved were punished. No Muslims will come out against the rioters and rapists in this story. That's the difference beween them and us.

Anarchist, a lot of us think the whole re-tribalization thing happening in Europe is a bad thing. Race isn't the issue here (probably); it's intolerance and xenophobia. We've seen where that can lead, and it would be really stupid to think it couldn't go where it once did.

(BTW, I thought it was dogma that nurture trumps nature when it comes to criminal behavior. Odd that environment -- in this case, cultural and religious background -- is out-of-bounds as a causative when it would lead to politically inconvenient conclusions....)

Personally, I don't give a crap about the ancestry of any of the players in this story. What I find disturbing is that no one involved seemed willing to take a stand against barbarism. Vast majorities can watch civilizations fall, and if the French can't find better ways to cope with the cultural changes there then majorities within every demographic can expect to see the country fall around their ears.

How many people died during Kristallnacht? By later standards, not many at all. The fact that not many people are dying in France right now shouldn't hide the fact France burns every evening. If you really are an anarchist, I'm sure the thought doesn't bother you much. But if that's the case, you're definitely part of the problem.

Three gendarmes arrive. They have to wait an hour and a half for a formal complaint before they could board the train.....?

Why didn't they just buy a ticket?

where is the outrage by western feminists about the rape of young women by gangs of young men coming from immigrant and at least culturally, if not actively religiously, muslim backgrounds?

you're kidding, right? why outrage from "western feminists"? why not outrage by all who read this item?

you're outraged, right? so am I. so are probably all the other people who read the news report.

so what's your point? that [presumed] muslims aren't capable of patriarchal responses?

give me a break. they're no different than non-muslims. men do these things.

I defy you to point to any race, ethnicity, or religion that hasn't and doesn't still practice some form of sexual subjugation.

I defy you.
...

"When 30-some Muslim men gang-rape a woman, it's a discredit to Muslims everywhere, nothing less. To dismiss this crime as a laugh is grossly callous."

I didn't dismiss the crime as laughable. I'm dismissing the gross generalization, demonization of all French and all Muslims, and rationalization of all this by the commenters as laughable. Altho now that I write that, it strikes me as not very laughable, but still pathetic.

Unarmed American civilians under attack, and a different response: see Flight 93, September 11, 2001.

I'm not at all surprised by scum of a "mediterranean or middle eastern appearance" behaving like this. They will until we make them stop it. I am appalled, however, that Les Frogs did absolutely nothing to defend themselves.

Nor that the French gendarme had the balls to step up to the plate and bust some heads open, but hung coyly back, lest they get their uniforms wrinkled.

I guess if you're born and reared in a mommy state, you are useless without that mommy actually being there, taking your hand and guiding you through whatever motions are called for. And we thought that perhaps France would learn from its humiliation by the Germans during WW2, that actually doing something is preferrable to negligent ennui.

peacebug, the gang rape was only one part of the story. Yeah, scum congeals around other scum, and they do stuff like that. The meta-horror is the passivity of those who presumably weren't scum, who watched it happen in front of them anyway.

Doom and gloom is usually wrong, but you have to worry about a society trained to let authority handle matters having to deal with a collapse of authority.

---"I'm not at all surprised by scum of a "mediterranean or middle eastern appearance" behaving like this. They will until we make them stop it."---

Acts like this have been taking place all over the world, since time immemorial. Is it because no one has ever stepped up to stop them?

No. It's because some people are just criminals. We lock up more people per capita than almost anyone else in the world. Has that stopped crime from happening here?

No. And that’s why we NEED police forces and armies. We DO need to protect individuals from those who feel inobligated to observe the standards of civilized behavior.

Rape has been a staple of war in Africa, in Bosnia, in Sri Lanka, and just about anywhere there has been men and women in the same country. Spousal rape wasn’t even considered a crime in our own country until the relatively recent past. Gang rape doesn’t require a swarthy complexion of a heavy accent to engage in.

"Gang rape doesn’t require a swarthy complexion of a heavy accent to engage in."

No-one thinks this is a racial issue, framing it so is just trying to cloud the issue. This is a cultural issue. I fairly certain there are more poor white Parisians than dark skinned (just as there are more poor whites in American than other races), but we havent heard of rioting and gang-like behavior out of them. Not because of their genetics, because there is a social agenda among immigrants from Muslim countries. Its no secret, their own literature proclaims their intention to make Europe a Muslim state.

"I am appalled, however, that Les Frogs did absolutely nothing to defend themselves."

All the courage of France was spilled out at Waterloo. In the service of a gallant tyrant, I might add. What spark of manhood remained died on Flanders fields, and all the heirs of Charles Martel are but restless ghosts.

If history is any indication, the only thing that will spur the lethargic blood of France to action, is if some hot chick puts on spurs, takes up a fleur-de-lis banner, and charges. They'll follow her just to see where she's going, but otherwise they'll keep to thier cups and clown costumes. France needs a woman to save her like no other time in her history (after all it wouldn't have been the end of the country to be ruled by a French speaking Norman king), but alas, the women of France no longer pray and no miracle seems likely to be forth coming.

---"Not because of their genetics, because there is a social agenda among immigrants from Muslim countries. Its no secret, their own literature proclaims their intention to make Europe a Muslim state."---

Have you actually seen this, their "literature?" I take claims like this with a grain of salt, because almost always, they turn out to be hyperbolic misinformation, however credibly begun.

Read the Hatewatch Briefings. regularly.

This is purportedly another report on No Pasaran's comment section on what went down with this French train riot/gang rape.

It's worse than originally reported.

"And thanks to Erik to bring André Thiele's report. He saw nothing (he was in the station after the train had left) but manages to write a report as if he was on the train !!!

I was in Marseille station three weeks before the events. Everything was clean as well..."

Well, Bof, you're not much of a reader, are you? Let me help you out.

I did not write a report as if I was on the train, I quoted the report of France 2 in French and sent that quote to Eric Svane, together with some comments of mine. What I additionally reported was that I have been on the station of Les Arcs two and a half hours (as I now know more precisely) after that "train de fete" had left again. The French said that there was a "massive police deployment". Have you ever been to the site of such a massive deployment two hours+ after it took place? Right. It's easy to spot. They say that they had used three divisions there. That's about 360 troops. You don't bring 360 officers into one tiny train station, let them fight, and 150 minutes later, nobody realizes anything anymore, except if you really really want that.

The train stood still in Les Arcs for 1 1/2 hours BEFORE the police arrived. - Before? Not quite. The police was at the station even prior to the train. They had been talking to the guard via cellphone, that heroic guard who had made usage of his "droit de retrait" because he felt that the safety of the passengers (and not the passengers of one waggon only) could not be guaranteed any longer, and they all agreed to stop the train in Les Arcs.

Why in Les Arcs? Easy: Because there's the only post of the Gendarmerie Nationale after Nice, a slow two minutes walk from the station, even if you're half drunk on January 1st early in the morning. And if you know the Gendarmes, you also know that they are bristled with weapons and tough to the bone, well, as far as French officers have bones. They are not police. They are Feds. But the officers, three of them, stayed inside the station's building. The reason? The railway agency SNCF had not yet officially made a report. That's what they say. Officially. So for 1 1/2 hours, the Arabs in the train rioted - and not, as Bof speculated, in one waggon, but throughout the whole damn train - while the passengers locked themselves in into the compartments (question aside: why did they not open the security windows, which is easy to do, and run away? because they were so totally paralyzed by the senseless hope that help would come from nowhere but the outside) and stared at the station building, waiting for help, while the officers, i.e. the government, sat in that buiding and waited for official papers.

That's what they teach us in Europe: Be passive. The government will do it for you. And that's why we are going down.

malaventura

"Have you actually seen this, their "literature?""

Yes, though to be completely honest I can't read most of it and have to rely on a translation. However, I have no reason to believe that the translation is misleading, and if I did I have an Arabic speaking friend who I could approach.

"I take claims like this with a grain of salt, because almost always, they turn out to be hyperbolic misinformation, however credibly begun."

May I remind you that this responce was the first reflexive response of Corpseherder to even the claim that the event happened. Now that the event has been established by multiple news sources, including France2, the new reflexive responce is 'well it happened' but its an utterly ordinary event. Really? I mean, I grant you that this happens in places like the Sudan all the time, but its not an utterly ordinary event in countries which nominally have the rule of law. Stop for a second and analyze your own prejugdices before leaping on ours. Why do you feel the need to explain away this atrocity? Why do you feel the need to try to make this event morally equivalent to something in the US? Is this really morally equivalent to spousal rape? This wasn't an event between just two people occuring in private, who were nominally part of the same social unit and nominally sexual partners under the law. The rape itself, even the fact that it was gang rape isn't the full extent of the depravity involved here. And why do you dismiss the cultural linkage between the men who preformed this act and the sort of places in the world where this is all to often an ordinary event?

Let me ask this another way. You would probably feel nothing was particularly odd in examining the reasons why the US has a higher rate of murder than most other developed countries. Such investigation is a worthy topic of discussion. Why then do you think it strange to investigate why places like France have more than double the arson rate of the US, more than double the home invasion rate, and well more reports of things like this?

Someone who writes "that’s why we NEED police forces and armies" (emphasis not added) and signs his name "Anarchist" is confused about a lot more than just recent events in France.

Trent's quote of the comment from Malaventura on the No Pasaran blog reveals a truly fundamental difference between Europeans and Americans. Here's a repeat of critical part from the Malaventura post, followed by my comments three years ago on how Americans are different:

"So for 1 1/2 hours, the Arabs in the train rioted - and not, as Bof speculated, in one waggon, but throughout the whole damn train - while the passengers locked themselves in into the compartments (question aside: why did they not open the security windows, which is easy to do, and run away? because they were so totally paralyzed by the senseless hope that help would come from nowhere but the outside) and stared at the station building, waiting for help, while the officers, i.e. the government, sat in that buiding and waited for official papers. That's what they teach us in Europe: Be passive. The government will do it for you. And that's why we are going down."

http://www.strategypage.com/strategypolitics/articles/20021017.asp

"The Giants of Flight 93
by Tom Holsinger
October 17, 2002

American actions in the war on terror can be better understood if the unique role of the American people in American nationalism is considered. They feel they alone constitute the nation. This is quite contrary to other countries' nationalism where the "people" are considered one of many domestic factions, and often an illegitimate one ("the rabble"). This distinction arose because the American people have always deemed America's sovereign power to reside in themselves, while most other nations began their national consciousness with a hereditary monarch expressing the sovereign power. Other peoples identify themselves with their nations. Americans instead identify the nation with themselves, feeling they collectively are the nation.

Many distinctive American traits grow from these feelings - exaggerated self-reliance and individualism, disdain for elites, self-confidence, etc. The American phenomenon of "populism" is a perfect example - a feeling that factions are illegitimate usurpers of power properly exercised solely by the people through governments which are supposed to be their servants. The American people are rightly confident they collectively can bend their governments, including the national government, to their will when necessary, but don't hesitate to act on their own, as individuals or in spontaneously formed groups, to address issues as those arise. The unique vitality, power and independence of American local and state governments compared to those of other countries arises from the fact that sovereignty and power reside in the American people collectively and flow from the bottom up.

These and other consequences of the American people's role in American nationalism are directly relevant, and critical, to the war on terror. Public willingness to initiate and continue conflicts are in most countries the only arenas within which their peoples can affect their governments' conduct of hostilities, but not in America. The American people's proprietary attitude towards their country and in particular, its national government, leads them to additionally demand and get a say in the objectives, scale, scope and ferocity of hostilities. This has been true throughout our history, as well depicted in the American Revolution chapter in Michael Pearlman's Warmaking and American Democracy.

These characteristics of American nationalism make it expedient to consider the American people as a separate entity from their national government in foreign policy and war. America's federal government does. Foreign governments might have more success in influencing American policy, and at least obtain more freedom of action, if they engage the American people directly and/or take minimal steps to avoid unduly antagonizing them.

Such endeavor requires recognizing both these long-term traits in American nationalism and the unique manner in which the war on terror was commenced - that the American people themselves engaged the enemy before their government did, aboard United Airlines Flight 93 on September 11, 2001. The effects of this remain unclear but certainly something immense began.

Students of American character should pay close attention to Flight 93. A random sample of American adults was subjected to the highest possible stress and organized themselves in a terribly brief period, without benefit of training or group tradition other than their inherent national consciousness, to foil a well planned and executed terrorist attack. Recordings show the passengers and cabin crew of Flight 93 - ordinary Americans all - exemplified the virtues Americans hold most dear.

Certain death came for them by surprise but they did not panic and instead immediately organized, fought and robbed terror of its victory. They died but were not defeated. Ordinary Americans confronted by enemies behaved exactly like the citizen-soldiers eulogized in Victor Davis Hanson's Carnage and Culture.

Herman Wouk called the heroic sacrifice of the USS Enterprise's Torpedo 8 squadron at the Battle of Midway "... the soul of America in action." Flight 93 was the soul of America, and the American people know it. They spontaneously created a shrine at the crash site to express what is in their hearts and minds but not their mouths. They are waiting for a poet. Normally a President fills this role.

But Americans feel it now. They don't need a government or leader for that, and didn't to guide their actions on Flight 93, because they really are America. Go to the crash shrine and talk to people there. Something significant resonates through them which is different from, and possibly greater than, the shock of suffering a Pearl Harbor attack at home.

Pearl Harbor remains a useful analogy given Admiral Isokoru Yamamoto's statement on December 7, 1941 - "I fear we have woken a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve." They were giants on Flight 93."

This same type of thing is happening in Australia where muslim immigrants gang rape at will. Similar stories come from Sweden, Norway, and Belgium.

Not a racial thing, no, but they tend to be muslims. Islam is not a race, idrot, it's a religion. Not a peaceful one these days either.

No doubt the French stood by and watched because the attackers offered them nylons, cigarettes and chocolate. Some traditions endure.

ed: Evidently the rail system had a New Year's discount of $1 to travel to Nice and these troublemakers took advantage of it.

Another Only-in-Europe moment: The authorities are complaining because the railway did not advise them that they would be offering low fares for the holiday.

They should be prosecuted in the EU Monty Python court for this. "You are charged that on or about the first of January, you did offer discount fares with an intent to cause a breach of the peace."

I've scoured blogland enough to learn that the sexual assaults in this case were limited to groping, thank heavens (who knows what bugs those animals are carrying.) So the outrage can tone down just a little.

Totally disgusting.
As for somthing more the passing around of pedophile priests from parish to parish without in many cases informing the local Catholic authorities; i.e the Cardinal. Then allowing the head cardinal to takeover a church on Vatican property and giving him diplomatic immunity after he as exposed in covering up those actions.
The lack of value for children and woman is a very Western trait. The only way to right it is to go to court in the USA. I have grave doubts the law in France allows those women that civil solution.
I have no problems w/ public executions for rapists or pedophiles. My preference has always been for public stoning.
To Robin's orignal point that the feminist's have not responded to this or any other outrage in the world towards this type of behavior is not surprising. Just as rape is not about sex but violence and control over anothers physical and mental body feminism in the West has reduced itself to control over political power. This has set back the issues real and imagined the feminist movement first sought.

Good on ya Bill. Friend of mine did the same thing on the Metro there- stood up when no Frenchman would.

I've been unable to get into WOC until now, but Omri is correct that the sexual assault is being descibed by at least some sources as heavy groping.

At on level this is, indeed, better than gang-rape.

But at another level it's not MUCH better, as anyone who has experienced a similar attack will attest. To be utterly helpless against a maurauding gang willing to humiliate you in public - whose actions suggest they MIGHT rape you and COULD, if they chose .... that is a hellish thing to experience. Robert M. is dead right about the real nature of rape - demonstration of power over the most intimate aspects of your body. It's also the real nature of any serious sexual assault.

We don't know anything about the young woman except her age. It would be a deeply frightening and humiliating experience at best. If she herself came from a cultural background such as north Africa, it would be far more than that .....

Night trains crossing Southern France were already dangerous ten years ago, especially the Avignon-Marseille-Nice leg of the travel. Desperate robbers used to get what they could intimidating the passengers and then pulling the cord to stop the train and flee. Once in a station, I saw two Schwarzenegger-size policemen jumping into a night train and emptying it of Africans and north African muslims, even if they had a ticket. At that point, I thought egalité was left for daylight, but I must acknowledge that the travel ended without any problem.

By the way, I have not received so many warnings about any other long range train line in Europe. Usually commuters that cross conflictive neighbourhoods around any big city are dangerous, but not the regional, express and intercity trains.