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July 31, 2006Monday's Winds of War: 31 July 2006by WoW Team Monday at July 31, 2006 5:59 AM
Welcome! Our goal at Winds of Change.NET is to give you one power-packed briefing of insights, news and trends from the global War on Terror that leaves you stimulated, informed, and occasionally amused every Monday & Friday. Monday's Winds of War briefings are given by C.S. Scott and Jeff Kouba of Security Watchtower. Top Topics
Other topics today include: Arab support for Hezbollah; Hamas rocket attacks from Gaza; Israel thwarts suicide attacks; Hezbollah rocket attacks; IAF drone crashes; Abbas wants ceasefire; Islamic Jihad commander killed; IAF strikes on road to Damascus; IDF withdraws from Bint Jbail; Nasrallah declares victory; Hezbollah commando naval unit; Hezbollah commander killed in Bekaa strike; Bombing in Turkey; Chavez in Iran; Police find Chechen weapons caches; Chechen militants surrender; Tensions in Abkhazia; Taliban thumped in Uruzgan; NATO deploys to southern Afghanistan; Taliban in Waziristan; Threat from LeT; Pace in Kabul; Taliban fighters captured in Helmand; al Qaeda operatives nabbed in Khost; Pakistan-India relations; Fighting in Sri Lanka; Bombing in India; North Korea remains defiant; Bali bombers appeal death sentences; Riots in Australia; Bashir touring Indonesia; Shootout in Philippines; Assassination in Somalia; and more. Iran & the Middle East
America Domestic Security & the Americas
Russia, Caucasus & Central Asia
Afghanistan & Southern Asia
Far East & Southeast Asia
Europe
Africa
The Global War
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Comments
There is some question whether the Israeli airstrike actually killed those civilians. There was a 7-hr gap between when the building was hit and when it collapsed. There is some speculation that Hizballah exploded it to create a PR situation for Israel.
#2 from Tom Volckhausen at 5:05 pm on Jul 31, 2006
In the minds of knee-jerk Israeli apologists, there is some question about whether black is white, depending on what the party line of the day is. To me, this illustrates how ideology can submerge basic human compassion. If you read the news reports, Israeli aircraft continued to bomb and rocket the site where AP says 34 children died (Winds minimizes it down to 2 dozen, a few more or less dead Lebanese seemingly unimportant). In a triumph of hypocrisy, Israel blames the women and children it just killed for not leaving their homes as instructed. The fact that vehicles on the roads leaving Southern Lebanon have been routinely bombed and rocketed, including many buses full of civilians and ambulances, is not worth mentioning. The other fact that that many civilians are left under Israeli bombardment because they are too old, disabled, or too poor (no car or cash for dangerous expensive transport) to get out is ignored. The fact that Israel has failed to define a safe exit route for civilian refugees or a safe route of humanitarian assistance is ignored. Instead Israel declares that "Nowhere in Lebanon is safe" (this is essentially an admission of war crimes, if hospitals/schools/etc are not safe, this violates the laws of war). Several different news sources report that Israel not only bombed the building into rubble, but continued to bomb and rocket as rescuers struggled to pull out the wounded and dead. Rather than facing the factual consequences of Israel's air campaign, Yehudit grasps at ridiculous conspiracy theories.
#3 from Thorley Winston at 5:33 pm on Jul 31, 2006
In the minds of knee-jerk Israeli apologists, there is some question about whether black is white, depending on what the party line of the day is. Not really. I have no doubt that if there are civilians killed because one group is hiding its military assets amongst the civilian population so that they can attack from there in the hopes that the other side won’t fire back, the group hiding amongst civilians is the proximate cause of their deaths. IMO the only debatable point is whether in fact Hizbollah, in addition to being the proximate cause of those kids’ deaths, may have also been the cause in fact. Given that Hizbollah, unlike Israel, has deliberately targeted civilians (as opposed to attacking military targets with the realization that civilians may also be unintentionally killed) and that they’re ones using their bodies for propaganda purposes, I wouldn’t be shocked if the answer was yes but that only makes them more culpable.
#4 from Mark Buehner at 5:36 pm on Jul 31, 2006
Again, it is too easily forgotten that every single day Hezbollah launches over a hundred attacks that intentionally target civilians, completely at the expense of numerous military targets which ironically their weapons would be more effective against. I'll say it again, every day Hezbollah targets civilians, and they brag about it.
#5 from SPQR at 6:10 pm on Jul 31, 2006
Tom V. writes "... no nation on earth could escape condemnation for brutal actions against civilian populations ..." However, Lebanon ( note that the current Lebanese govt has Hezbollah participation and is praising Hezbollah ) somehow escapes Tom's condemnation. Hmmm, I wonder why?
#6 from Tom Volckhausen at 7:32 pm on Jul 31, 2006
Of course Hezbollah deserves condemnation, but Lebanon and Hezbollah are not identical. Support for Hezbollah is very high among Lebanon's ~45% Shiite population. Israel's actions ensure that support for Hezbollah continues to grow, both in Lebanon and throughout the Middle East.
#7 from SPQR at 7:36 pm on Jul 31, 2006
Tom, you've made excuses but completely ignored the fact that Lebanon's government has indicated its support of Hezbollah. And while Hezbollah "deserves" condemnation, it seems not to occupy any significant amount of your time or effort.
#8 from Mark Buehner at 7:44 pm on Jul 31, 2006
How easy would it be for Israel to have the US arm a 'militant sect' with tanks and helicopters to carry out the IDFs attacks. Then these militants can carry out attacks directly targetted at civilian populations and we can hardly blame Israel, right? Isnt that precisely what is going on with Hezbollah? The truth is we have no idea if the Lebanese are too weak to take on Hezbollah because theyve never tried. Moreso- they've never shown any interest in doing so. That sentiment has always been applied to them from the outside.
#9 from Davebo at 9:18 pm on Jul 31, 2006
( note that the current Lebanese govt has Hezbollah participation and is praising Hezbollah ) It's called democracy. And it turns out it isn't really a cure all after all.
#10 from lurker at 9:29 pm on Jul 31, 2006
It's called democracy. And it turns out it isn't really a cure all after all.Should I go ahead and log your vote for public order over democracy? The trains must run on time, right?
#11 from Davebo at 9:53 pm on Jul 31, 2006
Should I go ahead and log your vote for public order over democracy? The trains must run on time, right? It's not an issue of public order versus democracy and has absolutely nothing to do with the train strawman. Anyone suprised that Hezbollah managed to win representation in the flegdling Lebanese government or that Hamas did as well hasn't been paying much attention. And I'm not saying we shouldn't take steps to promote democracy, although doing so militarily is obviously off the table for decades. We just need to be more realistic about what various democracies might look like.
#12 from Jim Rockford at 2:11 am on Aug 01, 2006
In this I agree with Davebo. Further the implication is that Democracy leads to clarifying moments. Hezbollah's and Hamas's votes were votes for war with Israel. The populace wanted war with Israel. They now have what they wanted. If they wished to avoid war with Israel they should not have voted for, supported, and given aid to Hamas and Hezbollah. Recall the sequence of events: Hamas after various rocket attacks tunneled into Israel, killed various soldiers and kidnapped another. After Israel voluntarily left Gaza. After several days Hezbollah staged a cross-border raid into Israel, killing 8 soldiers and kidnapping two. They then sent rockets into Israel. These were acts of war ala Pearl Harbor and treated as such. Even the Israeli Left has no illusions that all neighboring states and organizations have only one objective: kill all Jews in Israel and everywhere else as well. No place to run, no place to hide, no deal to be made, nothing but killing and war for a chance at survival. Or beheading at the hands of Nasrallah. As for Qana; the Israeli Air Force disputes that it was responsible, saying the building fell apart more than 8 hours after the last bombing. It's not as if fake "atrocities" such as Jenin (where almost as many, 53 Israeli soldiers, died as Palestinian terrorists, 68, and 18 civilians) or the beach incident (where Palestinians would let no press or anyone else see the site for themselves) or the boy who was supposedly shot by Israeli troops but in unshown footage gets up and walks away (French TV is being sued by one of the Israeli soldiers; that they ran prepared footage from the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade that appears given the unshown footage to be one giant fake has allowed even that most anti-Semitic of European nations, France to have the case proceed). Arabs have phonied up "evidence of Israeli atrocities" before in these above occasions and more; others noted the strange coincidence of Arab reporters (but no Western ones) showing up right as the building collapsed (suggesting Israeli air raids were over or Arab reporters are invincible). Fake but accurate? It would not be the first time. It might be that everything claimed by Hezbollah at Qana is the absolute unvarnished truth. Or it might be another gigantic lie. It's not as if people constantly lie about Jews, or are predisposed ala Mel Gibson to hate them. Reasonable people seeing a past history of outright lies tend to be suspicious. [Gibson will suffer nothing from his outburst. He merely expresses what everyone in Hollywood, the Media, Academia, and especially Liberal/Left politics and the "heart and soul" of the Democratic Party."]
#13 from Tom Holsinger at 4:23 am on Aug 01, 2006
Freedom includes the freedom to fail. A learning curve is involved. Voting the wrong set of leaders to power can get lots of voters killed. The only question about our victory in the war on terror is how many Arabs will survive the experience.
#14 from frontinus at 4:45 am on Aug 01, 2006
For the love of whatever you find holy please do not trumpet the "Qana is a hoax" meme that is floating around. It is surreal to see how easily people willingly delude themselves. I've seen commenters debating about whether a freaking pacifier around a dead kid's neck is too clean. Could it have been in a mouth perhaps? And worse this is being discussed practically everywhere; even on milblogs. This is a bus careening off a cliff and people are fighting to get ON it. This makes absolutely no sense. The anti-Israeli people are hyping this incident to the moon and the pro-Israeli people are only helping them by trying to deflect it back on Hizb'allah. This is a can of worms that should have been left alone.
#15 from Tom Holsinger at 5:09 am on Aug 01, 2006
frontinus, It's in the Islamicist script. Some of us are aware of the script. They've done things like this before and will again. In this particular case, there is a fair amount of circumstantial evidence supporting our suspicion. Don't look at the bodies. Look at the faces of the so-called rescue workers. The same people have appeared in similar photographs over the years. And they are being identified now. I was one of the first to make this call.
#16 from frontinus at 5:49 am on Aug 01, 2006
Tom, condescension doesn't work on me. I'm well aware of the history when it comes to the fanatics and the media. You're wrong to assume I'm not. The circumstantial evidence is hogwash. There isn't a single piece I've seen that cannot be otherwise explained in a much simpler and plausible way. So Hizb'allah employs functionaries. What is so shocking about that? If we find HA employees at a soup kitchen that were also there in 1996 should we assume they too are plants? Should we petition HA for workers' rights to transfer? Really, there has to be a limit to credulity. Hizb'allah fired rockets from Qana. Israel responded appropriately. Fifty-four people died needlessly. I blame Hizb'allah. I don't need more reasons to do so. This is a waste of time. And what's more it is counterproductive.
#17 from Tom Holsinger at 6:15 am on Aug 01, 2006
frontinus, Try here - http://eureferendum.bl*gspot.com/2006/07/who-is-this-man.html Israel is fighting evil monsters. We are fighting evil monsters too. And they're the same evil monsters. This is not part of the older Israel-Arab conflict. The war on terror has just expanded and escalated. The rules of engagement are not what they were. And that's just the war part of it. Lebanon's Shia will be lucky if they only suffer the fate of Iraq's Sunni Arabs when Hezbollah is disarmed. Iraq's Sunni Arabs can get out.
#18 from frontinus at 6:32 am on Aug 01, 2006
Appealing to emotion with "evil" won't work either. There is nothing in that link that arouses curiosity. We see some local functionary present in 2006 that was also present in 1996. Even if this turns out to be Nasrallah's nephew acting as minister of Agitation & Propaganda it doesn't change anything. Israel has what it takes to lay any and all of her enemies to waste. It’s just a question of escalation and political will. Israel could end this current conflict by tonight if they wanted to, but they would face international condemnation for reducing Lebanon- and Hezbollah- to glowing green shards of glass.
#20 from Fletcher Christian at 12:20 pm on Aug 01, 2006
54 Muslims turned into good [ Winds of Change comment policy violated. Please don't feed the trolls. -- Marshall Festus 8/1/06 12:40PM ] I believe frontinus is right. It was a needless tragedy, no matter how it happened. To argue that it was an inside setup job is to give credence to the idea that it wasn't legit any other way. It was. The Israelis had a right to bomb the building. End of story.
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