THIS is proof of how low the left is willing to sink. Apparently, they now think the protection of our country is funny. How sad.

THIS is proof of how low the left is willing to sink. Apparently, they now think the protection of our country is funny. How sad.

There was a time Neal when the US considered waterboarding to be a war crime.

Even gave one Japanese soldier 15 years in prison for using the method

You're misleading again, Davebo.

Defendant: Asano, Yukio

Docket Date: 53/ May 1 - 28, 1947, Yokohama, Japan

Charge: Violation of the Laws and Customs of War: 1. Did willfully and unlawfully mistreat and torture PWs. 2. Did unlawfully take and convert to his own use Red Cross packages and supplies intended for PWs.

Specifications:beating using hands, fists, club; kicking; water torture; burning using cigarettes; strapping on a stretcher head downward

Verdict: 15 years CHL

To claim that Asano was sentenced to 15 years because of waterboarding is much akin to claiming that a man sentenced to life imprisonment after being convicted of rape, murder, kidnapping, perjury, extortion, and witness tampering was given that sentence because he lied in court.

It's dishonest.

To claim that Asano was sentenced to 15 years because of waterboarding is much akin to claiming that a man sentenced to life imprisonment after being convicted of rape, murder, kidnapping, perjury, extortion, and witness tampering was given that sentence because he lied in court.

It's really quite simple: waterboarding was the "water torture" count. Now, had that been the only count, perhaps the 15 years would have been less, but what sort of a "defense" would that be?

Andrew, you're being as dishonest as Davebo is.

Since your and Davebo's claim is that the U.S. has always treated waterboarding as a war crime worth 15 years hard labor, go right ahead and provide an actual example of someone being charged, convicted, and sentenced for waterboarding alone.

Serious charges.

No evidence.

Dishonesty in spades.

No, my position is we don't know just how many years water boarding all by itself was worth, but defending water boarding on this basis is sick. It certainly was one of the counts against Asano, and your idea that it was the least significant count is as unfounded as the idea it was the most significant.

Davebo made a wholly fraudulent claim.

I posted a link to actual evidence discrediting his claim.

You popped in to claim that despite the contrary evidence present in the historical record, maybe the original claim was somehow, possibly correct -- we'll just never know!

I responded by pointing out that once again you're levelling serious charges and once again providing no evidence to support them.

And now we're again at the point where you simply ignore contrary evidence, repeat your serious charges, and continue to provide no evidence to support your position. I don't see any value in trying to argue against figments of your imagination.

I highlighted the evidence from the historical record in my earlier comment, and I think readers here are more than capable of comparing the talking points to the facts.

Let's review.

One side says, "Hey! Waterboarding has happened all the time, it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things."

The other side says, "Crapola! Here is a case from sixty years ago of a Japanese guy who did a laundry list of things, including waterboarding. He got 15 years in prison."

The first side says, "But he did a BUNCH of things. Show me where it happened and that was the only charge." (I might also add that waterboarding has been around a long, long time.)

The crackerjack crowd says, "Neener neener! You're sick! Sick I tell you! It's bad, and to defend it is sick! I feel emotion, therefore you will not assail me with your silly logic and facts!"

Of course I exaggerate. That's just how it all sounds to me -- silly. So a guy thinks he is drowning for a couple of minutes. It sounds terrifying. Life goes on. Our enemies will use this, for sure, since we've made such a public spectacle of it. (Thanks again guys.) And this type of thinking is going to be in charge of defending us? I just hope that whoever is in charge of baking cookies for the terrorists down in Gitmo don't burn them, because there'll be heck to pay.

"The Bush administration is drafting a timetable that lists milestones for Iraq's government to carry out in order to withdraw U.S. troops from the country. The plan will be presented to Iraq's Prime Minister by the end of the year."

I think the Americans should make up a list of what Americans have to do before they pull out. It would be instructive to see what the Americans think ought to be done by Americans, not Iraqis, that the Americans have not done yet.

A list of milestones that the Iraqi government can achieve unilaterally would also be interesting. Of course, this transfers control over the withdrawal of American forces to the Iraqi government.

A list of milestones consisting of agreements transfers power to nobody in particular, or to whoever is the most obstructive. If consensus is not reached, American forces will stay in no-man's land with nothing to achieve and an increasingly hostile population, while nobody in particular is likely to be held responsible for a lack of universal agreement among all the legitimate players - including Moqtada Al-Sadr.

Um, guys? Every military pilot and every Ranger (and, I presume, SEAL and PJ) was waterboarded at one point in the recent past (don't know if they do it today) as a part of SERE training.

So were their trainers then charged with war crimes?

And Daniel, go back and look at this post and tell me that thanks to us, the other side has discovered torture.

A.L.

I believe I said "our enemies will use this" not that they discovered it from us, A.L. This war, above all others, is fought through publicity and popular opinion. You publicize something, you make more of it happen. That doesn't mean that it's wrong to publicize it, only that free speech carries a little more weight than it did back when we spoke on top of a soap box. By "thanks guys" I meant that it seems that some folks don't think before yapping, probably because they have no skin in the game except their lofty untarnished ideals.

If I personally would be waterboarded as part of service to my country, I have a difficult time explaining why I would not want my country's prisoners in wartime to be so treated as well. It's important to distinguish a prisoner/land pirate from a POW and from a criminal prisoner. Some folks want to mix them all up. I do not.