|
August 19, 2003Hushoor's Korea Briefing 2003-08-19by Joe Katzman at August 19, 2003 11:28 AM
Winds of Change.NET Regional Briefings run on Tuesdays & Wednesdays, and sometimes Fridays too. This Regional Briefing focuses on Korea, courtesy of Robert Koehler in Kwangju. TOP TOPIC
Other Topics Today Include: Negotiating with NK; 6-party talks, Military options; Hyundai Chief's suicide, Smuggling radios; SK's Anti-American shenanigans, Zen and the Art of Scatological Humor, and much, much more.
The next installment of Hushoor's Korea Briefing is planned for September 16th. Meanwhile, regular updates concerning Korean events can be found at The Marmot's Hole (a.k.a. The Hushoor). Tracked: August 19, 2003 5:09 PM
Hushoor's Korea Briefing: Aug 19/03 from The Command Post - Iran, North Korea & Other Hotspots
Excerpt: Winds of Change.NET Regional Briefings run on Tuesdays & Wednesdays, and sometimes Fridays too. This Regional Briefing focuses on Korea, courtesy of Robert Koehler in Kwangju, South Korea. TOP TOPIC China And South Korea Enable North Korean Nuclear Pro...
Tracked: August 19, 2003 6:55 PM
KOREA ROUNDUP from OUTSIDE THE BELTWAY
Excerpt: Winds of Change has a link-filled roundup of what's been happening in Korea lately. It captures the best writing on the situation from around the...
Tracked: August 20, 2003 10:21 PM
Korea from Backcountry Conservative
Excerpt: Winds of Change has an in-depth regional briefing on Korea. I found the link at Instapundit....
Comments
The tragedy on the "other options" approach is that while the United States spends hundreds of billions per year on defense its left to a Korean-American pastor to spend a whole $7000 dollars to send radios into North Korea by balloons. I was kinda hoping that the CIA would be budgeted a couple of billion per year to more aggressively pursue that option. But my hopes are fading on that along with my hopes of stopping North Korea's nuclear weapons program. BTW, the US Navy has announced it will be doing exercises in the Coral Sea to show how they might eventually start intercepting North Korean shipments. That's slightly promising. The whole "Corea" thing: Maybe they like Chic and this is their way of paying homage to him? I gotta say, there was one good tune on Return To Forever that I'd like to hear again. But I also flash on the old Monty Python skit where the guy couldn't pronounce the hard C sound and the other guy suggests using K instead. Blog-City has been experiencing some technical difficulties as they upgrade their stuff, so readers may have some problems with a number of the links. Hopefully, Blog-City will get their act together before too long. For what it's worth, the Hyundai chairman is not the only prominent Asian with North Korean ties to go missing. "Dutch-Chinese flower magnate Yang Bin has gone on trial in the northeast Chinese city of Shenyang. Listed two years ago as China's second-richest man, Mr Yang faces an array of charges ranging from multi-million dollar fraud to attempted bribery and the illegal use of agricultural land. He was arrested last year, soon after his appointment by North Korea as governor of a special autonomous region." http://www.rnw.nl/hotspots/html/chi030611.html Well, obvious the dead Hyundai chairman isn't missing, but let's just say he's missed. Regarding the O'Hanlon/Mochizuki article, North Korea was poised to have an SEZ up and running earlier last year, but THEY jettisoned it by threatening their investors (Japan, South Korea). In Vietnam and China, SEZs worked because the governments were stable and people weren't starving to death; before the SEZ's took off, their economies were stagnant, not devastated. The "demands" section of the piece strikes me as the worst kind of wishful thinking since Bertrand Russell suggested that the Nazi threat could be averted by the UK disarming and thereby making the Reich "seem silly." The US Navy is going to test a new visual submarine detection system in the Sea of Japan. I can't imagine that's going to please the DPRK, who's diesel subs frequent the place. But what will they do about it? "all you have to do is get past his fondness for scatological humor." Arrrrrgh, another puckered anus with prim comments about scatological humor! Look, everyone's got an asshole, even squirrels and dead people, last time I checked. And to my knowledge, nobody deliberately sews their gateways shut, so the assholes are free to sing loudly and brownly. This is a problem? The only difference between me and people like you is that, when I scratch my ass and accidentally dig out a peanut or piece of corn, I sniff, laugh... and then NIBBLE. Aside from that, what's the big fuckin' deal? Sigh... OK, having said my piece, I humbly thank you for not just one, but TWO links to my site. I appreciate the traffic. HOWEVER-- I don't think I've written much that's specific to Korean Zen quite yet. For people who want to know a lot in a hurry about that subject, I highly recommend Robert Buswell's "The Zen Monastic Experience." Buswell was a monk in a Korean order for about five years; he now teaches at UCLA and remains active in Korean affairs. His book is a view "from the inside," if you will, and it's well-written. One thing Buswell notes is that many Korean monks tend to take on only one kong-an (koan) their entire career, as opposed to the Japanese style of moving from koan to koan. Another contrast I'll note is that Korean Son (Zen) monks, contrary to their Japanese counterparts, aren't quite so obsessed with physical pain as part of the meditative process (as Steven Den Beste might say, "DWL!" I know not all Japanese monks are this way, either). OK, all for now. Let me hit this sexily rectangular "post" button and disappear in a mushroom cloud of flatulence. Shittily yours, Kevin Kim
#8 from cliff at 10:58 pm on Aug 20, 2003
Basic realities of dealing with the North Koreans, and a modest proposal for a solution: 1. The North Korean need for nuclear weapons is so intense that it trumps all but the direst consequences. What would satisfy all of these disparate interests, and is easiest to achieve without war? Answer: a regime change in North Korea to a government that is a client of the Chinese government. Why? No nukes for North Korea, for obvious reasons, therefore no threat to the United States, lunatic Islamicists have to look elsewhere. Bonus: military forces now distracted by the prospect of conflict in Korea can be moved to dealing with the real threat: islamofascism. No unification, so the South is off the hook for aid, the South’s economic miracle can continue. The Chinese are more expert at both running and reforming an old-fashioned Stalinist regime. Bonus: the Chinese would presumably allow more interaction than the current NK regime. Double bonus: the Chinese would have no incentive to attack the South. Triple bonus: the Chinese will start some kind of more rational development program for the North Koreans – anything is better than what they have now. Bonus for the Chinese: some of the political pressure for a nuclear-defended, missile-shielded Japan evaporates in Japan. So: sell the North Koreans out to the Chinese. Game, set, match. How could this be engineered? I’d bet that just bringing up the possibility in the current round of multilateral talks would work a small miracle on North Korean thinking. If not, then threaten the North Koreans with a little muscle from all sides – South Korean, the seas, China, Japan and Russia unless they submit to immediate regime change. Give Kim some retirement program, and help him and some of his key loyalists to bug out, maybe even a gig on South Korean TV. Once the threat of force is overwhelming and the retirement program sufficiently attractive, the regime will be gone in short order. The current joint military exercise among the Japanese, South Koreans, and Russians is a nice message in this direction. Even the Chinese are doing some joint thing with the Japanese Navy. If the Chinese government raises objections that the whole thing is going to cost them too much money: a little judicious aid, no? In the long run, the Chinese will bug out of North Korea anyway. The Koreans will see to that…they’ve had lots of experience in the last 2000 years, dealing with invasion and occupation. Consequences of not acting: North Korea acquires a nuclear arsenal sufficient to deter any attack. Then what? The South’s economic miracle will then be sitting under the threat of a nuclear war and blackmail – oh, that’s a nice prospect for profitable investment isn’t? A nuke or two might slip to the islamofascists or a Japanese city, either for profit or out of simple bloody-mindedness on the part of the North Koreans. In the end, the only way to deal with the North Koreans will be all-out war, with probable use of nuclear weapons on Seoul and other cities. The North will be annihilated, the South severely damaged. Note to China: you get to fret about a nuclear armed North Korea for awhile, then you get probable nuclear war on your doorstep, the Japanese will get nukes and a missile shield, and troops doubly unfriendly to you will now be on your border. Ok. What’s everyone waiting for? Divine intervention? Barring that, tell me how crazy and cynical I am....
#9 from cy at 10:52 pm on Aug 21, 2003
re: cliff's NK sell-out to China It's an interesting proposal, and I want to raise some points to consider simply for the sake of argument. As I understand it, you're basically saying that the US should reassure (with words and perhaps with aid) a dithering China that there will be no negative effects from their taking over North Korea, and push for China to do so. But does the US want to promote Chinese expansionism in the region? Japan and South Korea (not to mention India, Russia, and Mongolia, for that matter) may have some serious reservations about this. You're proposal, in some ways, is the antithesis of what Victor Cha has frequently argued: that US policy vis-a-vis NK should seek to reduce regional "security dilemmas" (in the Jervis sense) arising from the inevitable reunification of the Koreas. This means containment of NK's regime until it collapses, while building a "regional security system" that can ease in a reunified Korea. (Sorry I don't have a link for a Cha article, but a Google search should find something easily enough.) Following Cha's line of thought, one might argue that promoting a Chinese takeover of NK would go against the flow of this "inevitable reunification", thus increasing US-ROK animosity and creating serious security dilemmas of its own: as mentioned above, all of China's neighbor's would be made wary. Finally, to put your proposal in other terms, you're basically saying the US should tell China to take full responsibility for NK. But isn't this what the US has been telling China all along? I suppose that means that for China, the costs associated with taking on full responsibility for NK are prohibitively high, even with offers of US assistance?
#10 from cliff at 4:07 pm on Aug 22, 2003
CY: Thanks for the tip on Victor Cha...I looked him up...I'll read his stuff! Actually, there is a sixth fact of reality about North Korea: 6. The North Korean refugee situation will continue to grow inexorably, and no one wants these people, but no one except the North Koreans, and to a lesser extent the Chinese, are willing to shoot them. That refugee problem is going to continue to grow regardless of what happens, even if China or South Korea or the United States were to take over. Even the North Koreans are losing their grip, and it has been quite ruthless so far. The North Korean population is slowly, inevitably, inexorably changing the situation with their bare feet, and everyone else is trying to 'manage' that. The North Korean government’s desire to handle this with nukes is deeply ludicrous, on top of being extremely dangerous. You are right that the Chinese leadership is quite concerned about the many costs of handling the North Korean situation, but it is reluctantly dawning on them that the costs of not handling it are growing much, much higher. Since they own much responsibility for the disaster in North Korea, it is perfectly just that they should be discomfited now. As a footnote, the Chinese leaders are constantly playing a vicious and stupid Machiavellian game with history, and are just too clever for their own good. They are addled with an addiction to fraud and force for advancing Chinese interests, and by a barely concealed but very deep Chinese racism. Add to that the deep foolishness of 'face' (a method of denying denial), and they become recalcitrant and dangerous clowns. If there were a single factor that would change the situation for the better, it would be for the Chinese leadership to grow up and take some responsibility for their foolishness. They will only be coerced and bribed into doing so, however. There is a simpler solution, really, than Chinese takeover of NK. The Chinese take any and all refugees from North Korea, and the rest of the interested parties take them in. The treatment of North Korean refugees is the litmus test of morality and realism among all the parties to this issue…… We provide valuable data and information pertaining to the Libyan membership will enlighten you with specific and detailed information about Libyan market from the first click.
Post a comment
Here are some quick tips for adding simple Textile formatting to your comments, though you can also use proper HTML tags: |
You're Reading an Individual Post!
If you want to head to the main blog page, just follow the "Main" link in the navigation up top underneath our blog's name. Or click here:
Winds of Change.NET Home
Project Valour-IT
Winds of Change Library
Recent Entries
· Mumbai Aftermath: 2 Snippets
· "A Bad News Guy In A Bad News World" · What's Next in Iraq · Political Weenie Report: Why Cure a White Male Disease? · What If An Ad Agency Created the Stop Sign? · Stupid Government Tricks: Carpooling in Ontario · The Psychology of the Con · Thanksgiving Morning 2008 · Project Valour-IT · Winning In Afghanistan: A British View · Changing Winds · TAREK VERSUS TARIQ · Turkey · Hoder in Jail in Iran · Obama's Web 2.0 Communication Strategy
Support Winds of Change.NET!
Your support & assistance is greatly appreciated, and makes a difference!
The Winds Crew:
Town Founder: Joe Katzman joe {at} windsofchange. net Joe's Normblog Interview Left-Hand Man: Marc 'Armed Liberal' Danziger armed {at} windsofchange. net A.L.'s Normblog Interview Other Winds Marshals 'AMac', aka. Marshal Festus (AMac@...) Robin "Straight Shooter" Burk 'Cicero', aka. The Quiet Man (cicero@...) David Blue (david.blue@...) 'Lewy14', aka. Marshal Leroy (lewy14@...) 'Nortius Maximus', aka. Big Tuna (nortius.maximus@...) Other Regulars 'Callimachus' (callimachus@...) 'Demosophist' (demosophist@...) Rev./Maj. Donald Sensing 'Molon Labe' (molon.labe@...) 'Neo Neo-Con' Tarek Heggy (tarek@...) Semi-Active: Arthur Chrenkoff 'Gabriel Gonzalez' (in Paris) Tim Oren (tim@...) Trent Telenko (trent@...) Posting Affiliates Athena: Terrorism Unveiled Chester: The Adventures of Chester Dave Schuler: The Glittering Eye Grim: Grim's Lair et. al. Joel Gaines [Russia] Michael Totten MILblogging.com: The MilBlogs directory Murdoc [Military] Situational Awareness team [Military] Nathan Hamm [Central Asia] Randy Paul [Latin America] Robert Koehler [Koreas] Robi Sen [India & S. Asia] Nitin Pai [India & S. Asia] Simon [China & E. Asia] Yehudit: Kesher Talk Emeritus: Adil Farooq (adil@...) Andrew Olmsted [KIA, Iraq] Celeste Bilby (celeste@...) Dan Darling Gary Farber (gary@...) Hossein Derakhshan (hoder@...) T.L. James (tljames@...) Robin Burk (robin@...)
Winds of Change.NET Blogkids & Affiliates
· The Argus: covering Central Asia · Canis Iratus: Glen Wishard · Correct-Amundo: Tech & society · Discarded Lies: Ev & Zorkie · The Flying Kiwi: Donovan Janus · The Glittering Eye: Dave Schuler · Gumptionology: Nortius Maximus · Hot Needle of Inquiry: 'Jinnderella' · Laughing Wolf: C. Blake Powers · Out The Mazoo: 'Mazoo' · Power and Control: M. Simon · Praktike's Place: 'Praktike' · Random Probabilities: Robin Burk · Siberian Light: covering Russia · The Spirit of Man · Good News From the Front · WATCH/: covering the war on terror
Archives By Category
-FEATURES: 48 Ways to Wisdom (24)
-FEATURES: Diaries & Roundups (10) -FEATURES: Military Transformation Uplink (12) -FEATURES: New Energy Currents (20) -FEATURES: Reader Highlights (2) -FEATURES: Regional Briefings (166) -FEATURES: Sufi Wisdom (158) -FEATURES: The Bard's Breath (32) -FEATURES: Winds of Discovery (6) -FEATURES: Winds of War [WoT] (445) 4 HA: 4th-Gen Warfare (103) 4 HA: al-Qaeda (159) 4 HA: Crime, Organized (26) 4 HA: Evil Exists (111) 4 HA: Intelligence/Spycraft (101) 4 HA: Military (531) 4 HA: Nukes, Poisons, Germs (136) 4 HA: Statecraft (29) 4 HA: War on Terror articles (710) Best Of... (180) BIZ: Business & Organizations (137) BIZ: Economics (103) BIZ: Energy (75) CIVIS (236) CIVIS: Copyright Wars (25) CIVIS: Drug Wars (18) CIVIS: Edu-Kooks (76) CIVIS: Free Societies (296) CIVIS: Hall of Shame (164) CIVIS: Hatred Rising (114) CIVIS: Journalism & Media (413) CIVIS: Spirit of America.NET (32) CIVIS: War Within the West (313) COLUMNISTS: M. Simon (13) COLUMNISTS: Tarek Heggy (33) GEO: Afghanistan (80) GEO: Africa (104) GEO: Asia (117) GEO: Aussies & Kiwis (22) GEO: Canada (72) GEO: China (87) GEO: Europe (183) GEO: France (71) GEO: India-Pakistan (114) GEO: Iran (224) GEO: Iraq (968) GEO: Israel (249) GEO: Koreas (64) GEO: Latin America (63) GEO: Middle East (257) GEO: Russia (83) GEO: Saudi Arabia (64) GEO: Sudan (36) GEO: U.K. (71) GEO: U.N. (61) GEO: U.S. of A (506) HUMANITY (89) HUMANITY: Art & Culture (161) HUMANITY: Art - Music (32) HUMANITY: Art - Poetry (6) HUMANITY: Christianity (53) HUMANITY: Heroes & Achievements (232) HUMANITY: History (126) HUMANITY: Islam (184) HUMANITY: Judaism (137) HUMANITY: Love (32) HUMANITY: Philosophy (49) HUMANITY: Spirituality & Religion (74) HUMANITY: Zen & Buddhism (28) Humour (200) Misc. (44) NET: Blogosphere (397) NET: Cyber-Security (16) NET: Grid Computing (3) NET: Spam (24) NET: The Internet (39) NET: The Open Source Meme (18) Personal (199) SCI-TECH: Biotech & Medical (84) SCI-TECH: Eco-tech (82) SCI-TECH: Nanotech (27) SCI-TECH: Science (113) SCI-TECH: Space (75) SCI-TECH: Technology (146) SPORTS (45) SPORTS: Baseball (76) Trends (66) USA: America Catch-all (20) USA: Anti-Americanism (6) USA: California Politics (16) USA: Conservatives & GOP (43) USA: Dem Party Renewal (77) USA: Domestic Issues (56) USA: Elections (132) USA: Grand Strategy (15) USA: Homeland Security (106) VictoryPAC (3) Winds of Change.NET (56)
Archives by Date
December 2008
November 2008 October 2008 September 2008 August 2008 July 2008 June 2008 May 2008 April 2008 March 2008 February 2008 January 2008 December 2007 November 2007 October 2007 September 2007 August 2007 July 2007 June 2007 May 2007 April 2007 March 2007 February 2007 January 2007 December 2006 November 2006 October 2006 September 2006 August 2006 July 2006 June 2006 May 2006 April 2006 March 2006 February 2006 January 2006 December 2005 November 2005 October 2005 September 2005 August 2005 July 2005 June 2005 May 2005 April 2005 March 2005 February 2005 January 2005 December 2004 November 2004 October 2004 September 2004 August 2004 July 2004 June 2004 May 2004 April 2004 March 2004 February 2004 January 2004 December 2003 November 2003 October 2003 September 2003 August 2003 July 2003 June 2003 May 2003 April 2003 March 2003 February 2003 January 2003 November 2002 October 2002 September 2002 August 2002 July 2002 June 2002 May 2002 April 2002 Joe's Old Archives, By Title: April - June 2002 July - December 2002
Winds Blogroll
Top Prospects
SP Normblog (LHP) SP Solomonia (RHP) RF Mader Blog CF Donklephant LF Harry's Place C Critical Mass 1B Tigerhawk 2B Gideon's Blog SS Alexander the Average 3B Democracy Arsenal UT INF Pundita DH Counterterrorism Blog PEN Liberals Against Terrorism CL Gates of Vienna MASCOT Huffington's Toast MGR Robert Tagorda GM Conservative Grapevine Humour Blogs
Support VictoryPAC· Cox & Forkum (cartoons) · Day By Day (cartoons) · User Friendly (cartoons) · Iowahawk (satire) · Scrappleface (satire) Religious Blogs · Conscientia (baha'i) · Unlearned Hand (bud) · Eve Tushnet (cath) · Muslim Under Progress (isl) · Ideofact (isl) · Kesher Talk (jew) · Rabbi Lazer Brody (jew) · Rishon Rishon (jew) · Rev. Donald Sensing (prot) Other Team Memberships · AlwaysOn [JK] · Blogcritics.org [JK] · Tech Central Station [JK] Blog Services< · NZ Bear's Ecosystem · Blogstreet · Daypop Top 40 · Technorati · Movable Type.org · New York Times Permalinks · Write A Better Blog |
http://www.windsofchange.net/windsopcentre-cms/trackback.cgi/1687
Listed below are links to weblogs that reference
"Hushoor's Korea Briefing 2003-08-19"