Eh, I never thought he was overrated.

I'm still not ready to give the Eagles props yet, though. Give me some time to mourn.

Maybe Favre was the one? If not for his incomprehensible long interception, the Eagles would be the ones going home.

My prediction? (as if anyone cares) Patriots vs Eagles in Houston.

I still think McNabb's over-rated. If he lived up to his potential the game wouldn't have gone into overtime.

I'll stop thinking McNabb is over-rated when he has the ring on his finger. The true story of the game was that the Packers wouldn't listen. I was yelling, yelling at the TV, "Take the points" when they were at 4th and goal on the one yard line. If they had kicked the field goal, it would have been 20-17 and no overtime. But they didn't listen.

Then they throw on 3rd and 3 in the 3rd quarter, when the running game is doing so well moving the chains. "Run, Luke, Run!" I yelled. But did they listen? No. Be it on their own heads.

My only consolation is that it doesn't actually matter who the NFC sends to Houston. The real superbowl is next weekend in Boston. Whether it's Patriots or Payton, Eagle is on the menu on February 1.

I should have said, "Eagle is on the menu, IF they get by Carolina." Otherwise, of course, it's Panther Pie.

PB

Michele,

You may not have, but Rush Limbaugh sure did.

Yes, the Packers should have listened - but that doesn't take anything away from McNabb's steady comeback after his team left the 1st quarter down 14-0, and especially the touchdown drive that tied it at 14. When it mattered most, McNabb came up big. I mean geez, he set a playoff rushing record for a QB.

Rush is entitled to his opinions just like the rest of us, but it would appear that he was flat-out wrong on this very public call. Hope he has the grace to eat his words.

Whether the Eagles can go all the way and hoist the trophy... well, that matter rests on the shoulders of the whole team.

I'm pleasantly surprised by these playoffs. Usually, the entertainment value of NFL games is wildly inferior to the CFL games I'm used to... but this season has been very good.

Rush always 'has the grace' to eat his own words. He's one of the few who actually acknowledges the things that he says (and has said in the past). But, of course, since espn went sissy and booted him, you'll have to tune in to his radio show to hear the big guy chow down.

Donovan delivered.

Favre choked with that no-look pass (i mean, interception).

And regarding rush's statement about dononvan,
I have one more question:

Donovan McNabb is black?

First:

1) A ball got away from Brett at a bad time. It happens. The Packers lost as a team. There were a number of things they did towards the end that resulted in their loss, and a number of things the Eagles did to win.

2) People make a lot of predictions, statements, claims, opinions on those shows. Rush's is getting more attention than most because he's Rush. Rush has, on his radio show, already eaten crow and joked about it. Chris Berman, Tom Jackson, the dudes on the other shows: heck, its sports, they say things that turn out to be wrong, too. Including in evaluating players who then turn their years around.

Heck, going by that, I watched the game. During it, into the second half, the anouncers were going on about how McNabb wasn't having a good game. He was having a fine game: had accounted for most of the Eagle's rushing yards, thrown some long completions, hadn't had a turnover. The only reason to say he wasn't having a "good game" was they hadn't scored yet. Part of that was the other players, though, rather than McNabb. But they aren't going to have to eat their words publically for saying McNabb was having a bad game, when he was having a fairly good game but doesn't play alone.

I figured they would win (the Eagles, that is), because after the 1st Quarter IMO they outplayed the Pack.

Heck, I could second-guess Mike Sherman, too, except that on that short yardage play, he'da been a genius if the RB hadn't run into the lineman, but instead scored the TD. Call it "Mike Martz in Reverse". The Packers actually went for the agressive call.

I didn't think it was there year anyhow. Maybe next year will be. The window is closing, though.

One correction to my previous post: actually the Eagles had scored even when the anouncers were saying McNabb was having a bad game - he had thrown a TD - they were just behind by 7 points and his "bad game" to that point meant he had accounted for almost all their offensive production.

On top of that, the Eagles don't exactly have a stellar offense - their "star" RB is out, Duce finally came back from being a PIA all season, their defense isn't what it used to be, and McNabb had a bunch of really good games in a row. He's not necessarily the best QB ever, but he's one of the best in the league, without even thinking twice about it. Rush sucks, and is clueless on this.

Donovan McNabb is, and will continue to be a gap toothed, crappy soup peddling, country ass mofo. We are suppposed to be impressed with how well he responded to that big meanie Rush questioning his talent? Please. For the first half of the season, he stunk up the joint. He ran like a girl today because he can't throw. The Eagles did not win this game, the Packers gave it to them. The Eagles are truly the Team of the Angry Black Man. Did anyone else notice how pissed off the receivers were any time they made even the most minor play? Pinkston is a huge pussy and Donovan is even worse. Hopefully, Carolina will take them down but regardless, the Eagles will be killed by either the Pats or Indy. My money and heart are now with the Colts and Peyton Manning, a REAL quarterback. Donovan will be bunking with Randall Cunningham, another Eagle QB who was supposed to take over the world but never lived up to the hype.

I've never asked the hosts to delete even the most offensive political comments (well, this blog's consensus is probably that many of them are written by me), but perhaps Mike A's screed could be erased? I kept waiting for the punchline that showed it was just a bad taste joke, and I just couldn't find it.

Not a bad taste joke, Andrew, just a rabid fan screed. If you think our standard left-right ideological discussions are bad.... well, this is sports and that takes arguments to a whole new level.

You may agree or you may think Mike A is from outer space on this one, but re: deletion, as you can see he's within our Comments Policy. As I note there:

"...My preference is to participate in the discussion while letting your self-created image and its consequences operate in the court of opinion, and I have broad faith in that process."

FYI, Andrew, I have never received a request to delete any of your comments.

Well, I think you guys are giving the Eagles way too much credit. I would have preferred the Packers win, so the NFC conf game would have been played in Charlotte, but no matter. I'm relishing the Panther's opportunity to go into Philly's house and win in the trenches. The Eagles have a very tough game in front of them, and their injuries just makes it that much more precarious. Look at the Panthers: Off and Def lines are solid, secondary is making plays, the double run threat and most importantly, Delhomme keeps his cool. The books better give the Eagles 7 points!

There's no whining in sports threads! I request that Andrew J. Lazarus' post be removed.

Undertoad... exactly what sports threads have YOU been participating in?

Near as I can tell, whining is a very important part of the grand tradition of sports threads! Though it should by common convention be related to the team.

And no, Andrew's post will not be removed either. Indfeed, given this thread's popularity, it looks like we'll be running a sequel next week....

C'mon dude McNabb played an exceptional game. Green Bay obviously had a better front four and pressured McNabb all game. Even his two fumbles weren't his fault, the result of missed blocking assignments (not even a hand on the defender). For someone who hides behind an anonymous internet identity criticizing people who could crush you INTO a Chunky Soup can, you have no right to either call someone a pussy or say someone runs like a girl ......loser. McNabb showed poise. Yes, the year started off rocky, BUT Philly is in the NFC Championship game largely because they FINISHED the season 12-4; they started this last game rocky, BUT McNabb led them to victory. He came through in the clutch. What did Brett do in the clutch...with the game on the line....with the benefit of better pass blocking all game...and a running back with well over 100 yards? Hmmmm. Perhaps you had turned your back to the TV and subsequently switched the channel during Sportscenter when they showed that 4th and 26 play. And I give Favre all the props in the world, but McNabb breaks a QB rushing record and leads his team back from a two touchdown deficit and all some folk can talk about is how he should have won the game before OT. "Of course, if he was really McNabb Almighty he would have morphed into an extra defender to block the defender his teammate missed, seeing this whole turn of events through his magical 3rd eye on the back of his helmet." Riiiiiiiiight. "The same with the 33 yard FG Akers missed, if he was really Almighty he would've shifted the wind pattern and blah, blah, blah." As far as Manning being a real QB, Manning is EXTREMELY fortunate to have Dungy, E. James, M. Harrison, and a HEALTHY offensive line. He was sacked 19 times all year. Meanwhile in Philly, McNabb does magic with a piss poor O-line, RB-by-committee (which does occasionally work to the advantage I confess), so-so WRs, and a defense that can't control the run. He was sacked 20 times in 3 games against GreenBay, San Fran, and NE. Then I won't mention the idiocy of calling McNabb a country ass mofo while your beloved Peyton is from where? Country ass New Orleans. Wow, I didn't know they cut so much sugar cane in Chicago. Consider yourself exposed.

The Eagles didn't win that game, the Packers lost it.

Green Bay and Favre out played McNabb and the Eagles in everyway possible.

See more here

Donovan is not the best QB but he might be the luckiest.

Uh, Joe, McNabb won ONE game. Myabe you can wait until at least he wins this week to tell us he's not overrated. And what will you say if he's loses this week at home to an inferior team with a mediocre secondary?

In said article, the writer gives five instances where he believes the Packers had a chance to end the game. Hmmmm... Ironically, the first instance he gives is in the 2nd Quarter. Even if GB takes and makes the field goal, you can hardly argue that the game is over. But on 4th and 1 at the goaline...with the lead...the NFCs leading rusher vs a team that struggles stopping the run...and also considering that in your second post you claim that GB has made those conversions "time and time again this season", I think it would be logical to go for it. Your second point that the "Packers have dragged Phily all over the field all night converting on 3rd - 4th and short" is nullified by the fact that it is the 4th quarter and protecting the lead is of most importance. Why give Philly excellent field position and the momentum? In the third point, it was actually 4th and 26. The pass completion was for 28 yards, but why not give McNabb credit for the exceptinal play he made instead of hating? The fourth post is another cover for not giving McNabb his due. Three defenders having their hands on him, him escaping and making a spectacular pass to the endzone equals a great play. Also, in the sport of football, QBs don't make passes to their placekickers on 1st and 10 (the TD pass was to Pinkston not Akers) and that was in the very beginning of the 4th quarter to tie it at 14-14. You claim that GB dominated for 90% of the game when 1) Philly outscored GB 17 to 3 from the 2nd quarter to the end of the game and 2) The score was tied 14 seconds into the 4th quarter. Newsflash: GB had an excellent pass rush; they dominated the line of scrimmage on defense, true. McNabb was sacked 8 times because of piss poor blocking, BUT he found a way to win even if he had to make NFL history to do it. I know it is hard when your favorite team blows it and you want to ease the sick, agonizing feeling in your gut. Just make sure that when you tune in for the NFC Championship game next weekend and crack open a big can of Chunky Soup, you answer one question:

HOW 'BOUT THEM EAGLES?

Uh, Hei, and what will you say when McNabb wins? And calling Carolina an inferior team is up for discussion. It took three missed field goals and an extra point for Philly to squeak by with a 25-16 win earlier in the season. Carolina has an inferior QB, but a superior running game and defense. Also, Ricky Manning, Jr. (Carolina's best cover guy) is no joke. Perhaps you missed the great INT he had in OT against the Rams? Or the total 3 INTs the Panthers secondary had against the Ram's high powered offense and a QB who was 16-0 at home. Hmmmmmmm. My heart's with Carolina, but I don't bet against McNabb PERIOD

what will you say when McNabb wins?

I'll say that he'll only need to win one more game to deserve the credit he's getting.

And calling Carolina an inferior team is up for discussion. It took three missed field goals and an extra point for Philly to squeak by with a 25-16 win earlier in the season.

I remember that, since I had John Kasay that week on my fantasy football team. But kickers are as much a part of the team as other players.

Carolina has an inferior QB, but a superior running game and defense. Also, Ricky Manning, Jr. (Carolina's best cover guy) is no joke. Perhaps you missed the great INT he had in OT against the Rams?

The strength of the Carolina defense is its front 7. Everyone agrees that their weak point is the secondary, which was why so many experts thought the Rams had "too much speed" and would beat the Panthers last week.

Or the total 3 INTs the Panthers secondary had against the Ram's high powered offense

Marc Bulger led the league with 22 INTs last year, so it's nothing out of the ordinary. And the last INT was created by pressure from the pass rush forcing Bulger into a bad decision.

and a QB who was 16-0 at home.

How can he be 16-0 at home when he hasn't even started 16 games at home in his career?

Hmmmmmmm.

Hmmmmmmm indeed.

My heart's with Carolina, but I don't bet against McNabb PERIOD

If you had bet against McNabb in the last 2 NFC championship games, you would have won.

With that said, I still think McNabb is a very good quarterback. I just wish that his supporters would wait until he actually gets to the Super Bowl before commencing with the told-you-so's.

"I remember that, since I had John Kasay that week on my fantasy football team. But kickers are as much a part of the team as other players."

No, a team doesn't automatically become "inferior" just because of a bad kicker. You remarked earlier that the Panthers were an "inferior" team with a "mediocre" secondary, I was just saying that that was debatable b/c they are definitely inferior in the QB position, but most everything else pretty much goes the Panthers' way.

"The strength of the Carolina defense is its front 7. Everyone agrees that their weak point is the secondary, which was why so many experts thought the Rams had "too much speed" and would beat the Panthers last week."

A weak point on an overall strong defense. The Panther's pass rush is deadly which is why you might think that it might have an effect on the performance of a QB like say Bulger. Contain the run, pressure the QB, and put the game into the hands of an unreliable QB. The linebackers are good, but you cant discount the secondary either. Like I said before, Ricky Manning Jr. is the truth and you don't want to sleep on Mike Minter and Deon Grant. And they did get 3 INTs.

"Marc Bulger led the league with 22 INTs last year, so it's nothing out of the ordinary. And the last INT was created by pressure from the pass rush forcing Bulger into a bad decision."

Were any of these same "experts" aware that Brett Favre had 21 INTs going into last Sunday's game against the Eagles, making him just as prone to throwing picks as Bulger.

"How can he be 16-0 at home when he hasn't even started 16 games at home in his career?"

Marc Bulger is 18-4 in regular season starts. This year the Ram's record was 13-3. The three losses coming in Seatle, San Francisco, and Detroit. So that's 8-0 this year at home. In the 2002 regular season he won home games against Arizona, Oakland, Seattle, San Diego, and Chicago. So you're right, he wasn't 16-0 at home.....he was just 13-0. My bad. The point however was to highlight the fact that all of his career losses have occurred on the road while he was perfect at home. The larger point being that those "experts" were probably aware of this when they favored St. Louis to win.

"If you had bet against McNabb in the last 2 NFC championship games, you would have won."

True....but you could've used the same logic on Elway's second two Super Bowls and lost huh?

"With that said, I still think McNabb is a very good quarterback. I just wish that his supporters would wait until he actually gets to the Super Bowl before commencing with the told-you-so's."

Marino never even got to the Super Bowl. That won't stop most from calling him an all-time great. Trent Dilfer won ONE and it would be sacrilege to call him a good QB. A player like McNabb coming in and turning around a franchise like the Eagles is a mark of a great player. There's nobody else on the Eagles that deseves as much credit as McNabb for turning that squad around.

So McChoke wins one game and he's God gift to football. Rush is right - he's been over rated since the day he left 'cuse. He'll never meet the expectations people placed on him because he's just not that good (which was Rush's point all along). When you have to point to one game for vindication, you've lost the argument.

Another heart-breaking loss next weeks for the Eagles will do the trick.

Four straight Pro Bowl Selections.....three straight NFC Championship games.....yeah, all because of one game. He does not have a 6-3 career playoff record, that's imaginery. What a loser! Plus, dude is like 27 years, he's way past his prime. For blah, blah, blah millions of dollars, I could play QB on a broken ankle with a swiss cheese offensive line, no talent at WR, and a 400-lb, pill-popping racist monkey on my back too...talk about no pressure. One more heart breaking loss for the Eagles and McNabb will be what 28 next year. All those years in the league and he's never even showed potential. Nope, not once. I just can't see it with all this wool covering my eyes.

Why does it it always come down to the shortcomings around him? It's the O-line, the receivers, he's hobbling, blah, blah blah. He goes down for half a season and the team wins just like he was there doing all those wonderful things. Kinda tells you something.

Oh, and I suppose he's going to grow into the job, is that it? In a few years it'll be "he just turned 30, he's got years ahead of him...".

The fact of the matter is he is, at best, average. He had the great career in college, left with an unbelievable final bowl performance, was going to be great in the pros ... unfortunately, the last one didn't happen. And guess what - it won't. He is what he is - overrated.

Great QBs become that because of (1) great stats (Marino, Kelly, ...) or, lacking that, 2) winning big games (Bradshaw, Namath, Graham..). Donovan is neither, and I doubt he ever will be.

The NFL playoffs are a wonderful thing because, to a degree unlike any other sport, it exposes a teams weakness in the big game. It will always come down to McNabb doing more than he's capable. And he'll fail. Again.

BTW, Rush isn't 400 lb anymore - you try taking a million pills a day and keep the weight up.

Does Donovan live up to the hype that spewed forth when he first arrived at Philadelphia?

I don't think he does. I think he is a damn fine quarterback though(and I am a Giant's fan).

Boy, oh boy. Andrew Lazarus is really a huge baby. You people who live in your hyper-heated polical world need to get involved with sports people if you want to see fanaticism. As you can possibly tell, I am a huge Packers fan. I live in Los Angeles and actually saw the Packers play 4 times this season. I had dinner with Ahman Green and his family in Greey Bay after the SF game. If you think it is bad calling someone a country ass mofo is bad, you have never talked with real sports fans. McNabb does not speak well. Sorry, but that is a fact. The Pack had an amazing season and, as a true Packer fan, I am still wearing my Packer hat this week. I will be there again next year and the year after. The Packer organization is possibly the greatest in professional sports. Better than the Yankees. Even better than Man U. During the game, the cameras would pan up to Lurie(?), the Ealges owner and he looked like just another rich white guy watching his toys prance around the field. If you want to see the owners of the Green Bay Packers, just look in the crowd. The Packers are the only team in professional sports that is actually owned by the common people of their city. The tradition of "Title Town" is so thick you can walk on it. Sitting in the stands at Lambeau was the most amazing feeling I have ever experienced. The people in the parking lot were like one huge family. They were even nice to people wearing SF gear. Compare that to my expeience in Oakland this year where we were almost beaten up for wearing only a Packers cap.

I think I have finally figured this out. You silly people are still worked up over Rush and his comments. You think that defending McNabb is a way to attack Rush and discredit his politics. You are totally wrong. Rush's comments were intemperate, yes but the sports facts below them are still true. Donovan is not that great. When he does something that merits notice (most consecutive games played by a QB, MVP twice, A SUPERBOWL RING!!!!), real sports fans will give him his due. Until then, he will be grilled harder than a bratwurst in the parking lot of the greatest team in the world!!!!!!!!

Now settle down and get back to arguing about something important.

"Great QBs become that because of (1) great stats (Marino, Kelly, ...) or, lacking that, 2) winning big games (Bradshaw, Namath, Graham..). Donovan is neither, and I doubt he ever will be."

Great stats don't a great QB make. Take the number of Super Bowl rings Kurt Warner has and divide that by the number of splinters in his ass this year. What's the difference between Marino and Warner? Please don't tell me that Warner is just as great or greater. If Marino had Marshall Faulk's SHADOW he might have won two rings. And I suppose Troy Aikman is just as great as Joe Montana? Ask Troy how important a great o-line is, or great TE, WRs, and RB, if he can still remember.

"The NFL playoffs are a wonderful thing because, to a degree unlike any other sport, it exposes a teams weakness in the big game."

So please enlighten me as to the Packers weakness. Everything looked great on defense. Ahman was running the ball well and wasn't fumbling. Why did Philly get the ball back in overtime IN THE BIG GAME, HUH? One guess and it rhymes with hinterception. NOW, you may talk about weaknesses.

"BTW, Rush isn't 400 lb anymore - you try taking a million pills a day and keep the weight up."

Brett did and he looked fine. Oh, I knew Rush lost weight. He's so flexible now, he can talk with his foot in his mouth. But I won't trip, he needs those pills to heal his foot-in-mouth disease.

"Why does it it always come down to the shortcomings around him?"

I ask the same thing about Marino and Kelly. What's Kelly great for? Most SILVER Super Bowl rings? 4th best QB in Canada's history? Wow. What was Marino's excuse? I guess Trent Dilfer is that much better than both Marino and Kelly huh? Why couldn't Peyton win the big game in College, but Tee Martin could with the SAME team ONE year later? I guess that just makes Tee better huh? Fool.

"If you think it is bad calling someone a country ass mofo is bad, you have never talked with real sports fans. McNabb does not speak well. Sorry, but that is a fact."

Sorry, but 1) Donovan's from Chicago. Brett's from Mississippi. But Donovan's country? I didn't know Rush taught logic too. 2)Maybe if you sat down and had dinner with Brett's ass you might know how country his ass was and you'd be quiet. 3)That would be YOUR opinion, not a fact. 4)Exactly what's wrong with being country anyway. Do you automatically equate country with ignorance as in, say, Rush's case?

"The Packers are the only team in professional sports that is actually owned by the common people of their city. The tradition of "Title Town" is so thick you can walk on it. Sitting in the stands at Lambeau was the most amazing feeling I have ever experienced. The people in the parking lot were like one huge family."

Then you and the common folk of Green Bay can take your asses back to the parking lot of Lambeau, hold hands with all the homeless season ticket holders, and sing 'Kumbayah' til the cheese gets green, and maybe you come back next year like Donovan did in THIS year's playoffs.

"Compare that to my expeience in Oakland this year where we were almost beaten up for wearing only a Packers cap."

Try going to Philly mixing up opinions and facts like you do here. They'll really cut the cheese.

"You think that defending McNabb is a way to attack Rush and discredit his politics. You are totally wrong."

Nope. Rush was an idiot before McNabb even got to the league. He wrote books to PROVE it. Plus, he does enough hypocritical bs on his own to discredit himself, I don't have to say cheese.

Hilarious! What are you, some Deaniac or something? You're showing the same tendancies. Personal attacks and over-the-top trash talking. Get a life already - it's football.

You're emotionally atttached to the success of a player and a team that don't even know you exist. If you're going to live vicariously through another, make sure it's at least someone who will succeed in the end, not an average Joe like McNabb.

Over-the-top trash talking? Oh that's rich, you've already looked into the FUTURE and determined a 5 yr. vet who's won a playoff game each of the last four years will NEVER EVER be anything. There are no remarks for that level of blatant oversight. People got really sensitive after GB lost last weekend. Did that have anything to do with emotional attachments? Denial even? Saltiness maybe? You don't have to answer now, you have all offseason to THINK about it.

you insist on trying to bring others down to your level of pain. I feel bad for you. Worst thing that ever happen to your team was the Rush thing - you could have dumped this guy in a few years after more of the same. Now, you're stuck with him. Gotta prove everybody wrong. McNabb is great because he's been in the pro bowl and his team is so good and Rush is fat and you're stupid ....

The better side of me should stop doing this. Obviously, this is torturing you because you know I'm right. You wouldn't have responded and certainly wouldn't have been so strident and long-winded about it. I'm keeping it going to watch you explode just one more time.

Face it, you've got the Chris Webber of the NFL. All promise, no deliver. And you're stuck with him for years to come. Enjoy your hell.

Actually, I want to comment on the 4th-and-26 play: Green Bay managed to do put the best of all possible defenses. When it is fourth-and-forever like it was there, defensive coordinators do one of two things:

A. Three men rush the quarterback, a linebacker and seven defensive backs drop in deep coverage. (I'd do this every time.)

B. Seven defenders rush the quarterback, the best four defensive backs drop into a deep cover-4.

The Packers sent a four man rush, while two linebackers stayed within five yards of the line of scrimmage, looking as McNabb scrammbled, planted and threw. The remaining five defenders dropped in deep coverage, leaving the middle of the field open for an untouched Freddie Mitchell. Pathetic indeed.

[deleted by A.L.]

This thread is quite entertaining now... looking back.
McNabb was and is a GOOD QB, but a great one?