Palin was very effective at her task - snarl with a smile. Really riled up the base.

Of course, the malice turned me off, but of course, I'm sure it's catnip to most of the people around here. Of course, that's what a VP is supposed to do.

On policy? Not one thing. Not one iota. Wasn't an economic theme in the group, because, as we know, John McCain can't count to 10 (houses) and real Republicans don't do math. Just look at the last 20 years of Republican administrations deficits. EVERY SINGLE ONE of the last 5 Republican administrations can't do math - and Mccain's laughable budget claims are no better.

For myself, math is important. Call me crazy, call me elitist, but if a whole frickin' party can't do math, they aren't getting my vote.

Guess hypocrisyrules won't be voting in this election.

Meanwhile, Biden's problem now is that he delivers "snarl with a snarl." That can work against McCain, because they've both been around long enough. Against Palin, it's a hara-kiri kit.

Like I said, the veep debate will be some kind of interesting.

"On policy? Not one thing. Not one iota."

You miss that 10 minutes she spent on energy policy?

Anyway, i heard a lot of these complaints about the speech. First off, you're right, VPs arent trotted out to do policy. They are traditionally the attack dogs and the red meat tossers. McCain will speak tonight, and its his job to talk policy. If he doesnt, i concede you have a point.

Perhaps more importantly, its bad logic to assume a conservative should spend time talking about what goodies they intend to give out if they win. If you dont believe the government should be involved in healthcare, how can you be condemned for not having a healthcare proposal? You explain why government doesnt belong in the field, which is rhetoric and not a proposal. So Dems are always going to have a lot more goodies to lay down on their laundry list. That shouldnt be surprising.

And I still think that there is a calculated attempt to smoke Biden out here. In a fighting campaign, it is a big mistake to have a VP who has to be cautioned at the outset to watch his mouth.

Maybe Obama didn't know that. Maybe they didn't vet Biden.

Gary Wills, in his work on the 68 election "Nixon Agonistes" quotes Bobby Kennedy, replying to someone complaining about the lack of specificity of one of the various party platform planks, as replying with disdain that such things had no significance by saying: "Have you ever heard of Americans voting for and electing a plank?"

I haven't watched the speech yet, just excerpts, but the best breakdown was by Ezra Klein in the american prospect.

They had the opening to weave a narrative around her preparation for the vice presidency, and decided instead to throw it away on a jab against Barack Obama. "I was mayor of my hometown... I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a 'community organizer,' except that you have actual responsibilities." Good line. But no responsibilities followed.

[break]

Nowhere did we hear of the great things John McCain would do, Instead, we heard, over and over, of the agonies John McCain endured... On a rhetorical level, it was effective.... But it is not, fundamentally, a sustainable approach to this campaign. If McCain is more appealing for what he did than what he will do, he will lose the election.

This has been my problem with the GOP thus far, and if McCain doesn't put presidential issues out on the table, I won't consider voting for him.

Please McCain, give me something more substantive than name-calling.

Next time, somebody remind Palin to recite the minutes of her city council meetings. That will make for some scintillating television.

When is Obama going to start discussing his community activism meetings with Bill Ayers and company btw? At least Palin's cronies aren't stopping journalists from researching public records.

Hey Joe,

You had a problem with Bill Clinton's math? The same math that got the country to a huge surplus during his last term? If you have a problem with that, you shouldn't be commenting on economic matters.

That's the problem - we democrats have to keep FIXING the economic messes created by republicans, because you guys just don't care about math.

Palin didn't care much about facts either, did she

How many lies must a Republican VP tell, before even you get sick of her?

"The best candidate for the job really was a woman. Deal with it."

Yes, but she couldn't beat Obama in the primaries, so I have to question her "executive experience" in running a camp--

Oh, you were talking about Palin? Nevermind then!

I kid, of course. But some enterprising reporter really should be getting a response to Palin's speech from Hillary, not from the Obama campaign or the Dem national party.

Good line. But no responsibilities followed.

I find that a bizarre criticism. How is it different from pointing out that Palin said we needed more oil, but she didn't say for what. Should Palin have dropped in a 10 minutes civics lesson on mayoral duties? Who, exactly, that cares doesn't already know?

Ezra is saying that she should demonstrate the skills she picked up as governor that will lead her to be a good VP (instead of just assuming mayor --> governor --> VP). What makes her a strong candidate? What will make her a good VP? I think that's an honest question.

Hypcrisy Rules,

Promising energy independence in 10 years without wrecking the economy and universal health care while cutting taxes for 90% (or some equally ridiculous figure) of taxpayers doesn't exactly seem to me to demonstrate an Einsteinian grasp of Math. And it was primarily the dotcom bubble that balanced the budget in the late 90s, an event over which Clinton had little or no control.

"What makes her a strong candidate? What will make her a good VP? I think that's an honest question."

Honestly that is, of course, a good question. Disparaging her credentials because her town was small and her state is small doesnt do much for that conversation.

I think a lot of us have the same questions about Obama, but of course his qualifications for president. Where are the detailed answers you are calling for on that?

Of course, the malice turned me off, but of course, I'm sure it's catnip to most of the people around here.

Responding to 5 days of non-stop criticism is "malice"? Good grief, the left sure is getting thin-skinned.

But considering the belittling, innuendo, and actual malice thrown at Palin immediately upon the veep announcment, I would say she's more than earned the right to snap back at everyone who has been mocking her career, her family, even her hometown. (Including you, hypo, on the remote chance she's been reading your comments on recent threads here.) Obama trivialized her past work as mayor, ignoring her current work as governor, and she shot back at his past work as "community organizer"--yet she did it better and with more class. And so on.

To be honest, if she had not addressed any of these criticisms--if she had walked out with a milksop speech presenting her bio plus an endorsment of McCain--she would have proven unfit for the veep slot. She needed to show fire and determination, and a willingness to call the other side on their crap; she did this with more style and poise than we've yet seen from the Democrats, national media, or lefty bloggers who were deriding her.

"Malice" is a silly thing to attribute to a mother defending herself and her family's honor. Especially when the veep is generally chosen to be the attack dog of the ticket, as Mark B pointed out. To borrow from Giuliani's speech last night, "how dare they... they would never say that about a man".

But I suppose that somehow makes me a racist for taking her side and not defending Obama's time as community organizer.

Palin has three jobs :

1) Energize the Right, and get both votes and donations.
2) Of 18 Million Hillary supporters, get about 1 million to come and vote for her (and thus McCain), which could be enough to turn the election.
3) If McCain loses in 2008, Palin is fast tracked to 2012, by which time, she has 6 years of AK Governor experience, and the main left-wing attack line against her has perished.

On 1) and 2), it seems she is on track to accomplish this. The back-up plan of 3) also appears to be on track.

Just curious, I have long wondered about "the Right Honorable" title prefix. What does the word "Right" mean? Is it an adjective that changes the meaning relative to just saying "the Honorable"?

Can someone tell me?

GK, in that context I've always understood "right" as equivalent to "quite" or "very", as part of an old English tradition of titling. This definition found via random googling seems to corroborate.

It can also be used in the negative, as "He is a right crook old b*st*rd" or "That was a right rum go."

So "Right" in the Canadian/British language carries a similar meaning as an American using the word "Downright"?

...."the Downright Honorable Presient George W. Bush"

I believe Right Honourable originally referred to the fact that the honorific is possessed by right; i.e., attached to a rank or office. So a person who is simply honorable without being the Lord Mayor of Shitshire-on-Moreshitshire could never be "Right Honourable".

I remember how enthusiastic GK was that Palin brought in $7MM in donations to McCain.

She also brought in $8MM to Obama. Heh!

Just as a quibble, Joe, I agree that McCain does not have the speaking presence to define his opponents, but I think he has the intellectual ability to do so. (Or at least, someone in his campaign does.)

He's been doing a reasonably good job of letting the air out of Obama's tires, so to speak, by defining him as inexperienced, defining him as the celebrity candidate, defining him as the hollow man, defining him as the object of some bemusement and a little nervous laughter. Not a stellar job, not knock-it-out-of-the-house, but certainly reasonable.

His choice of Palin, I think, does the same. I haven't made up my mind who to vote for, but when I hear the left talk about Palin's lack of credentials and experience, all I can hear in my mind is, "But Palin is even less experienced than Obama!" That cannot possibly be the message that the Obama campaign wants out in the general public, and it's not even McCain's message-- it's the Democratic buzz of the moment. If that's not defining your opposition, I don't know what is.

If I had to describe the difference, I'd say that McCain's ability is strategic or intellectual, while Obama's is personal or immediate. I'd say that McCain's is better able to be crafted, guided, or supplemented by one or more advisors, while Obama's is more dependent on him alone. I'd say that Obama's is more personally affecting, but that McCain's will tend stay around and worry at the back of peoples' minds, and is more effective in a horse race or long drawn out game.

"I remember how enthusiastic GK was that Palin brought in $7MM in donations to McCain.

She also brought in $8MM to Obama. Heh!"

As usual, no source.

Furthermore, the GOP makes better use of each dollar of donations than Democrats do. The whole private sector vs. socialist mindset..

Lastly, Kerry out-raised Bush (and even had $50M left over in the end). How did that turn out?

OK, GK, but it is now up to $10 million raised since Palin's speech.

Face it, Obama is more popular than McCain. Everything else is sour grapes.

No, sour grapes is what happens after the votes are counted in November -- pretty much independent of whoever wins. Before that, it's just framing, spin and fisticuffs. I wonder if this is what politics just after Washington were like. Bracing!

GK (#16). In a Parliamentary system, Ministers are always "The Honourable" XYZ. A Prime Minister, as primus inter pares (first among equals), is known as "The Right Honourable" XYZ. This Wikipedia article explains.

It's a title you get for life.

Now, we all know that a ton of them are far from deserving. But its use speaks to the historic necessities of civility in a more fractious polity, when non-violent unity was not an assumed thing, and duelling was an acceptable way to settle scores.

The concept is similar to the use of "Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition" for the largest non-government party. Though in that case, it does signify the very real fact that the opposition is/ loyal to the Queen (non-political Head of State) no matter what they think of the government of the day. There's something to be said for that.

"OK, GK, but it is now up to $10 million raised since Palin's speech."

And I can't wait to see the demographics of this influx.

Face it, AJL, Palin scared the dollars out of the folks trying to buy your party.

John McCain needed the extra money a lot more than Barack Obama did.

Because Barack Obama is the supreme money-raiser, he didn't need to pick a vice-presidential candidate who could open check-books he couldn't.

Because John McCain has been unpopular and an ineffective fund-raiser, he needed a vice-presidential candidate who helped him with his base, regardless of whether she also helped his already cash-heavy opponent.

Both presidential candidates have chosen their vice-presidential candidates wisely.

Just in case anyone missed it (ahem, AJL) "Palin Power: Fresh Face Now More Popular Than Obama, McCain".

As I wrote far upthread, McCain decided he needed a Hail Mary pass just to stay in the game. It's in the air. I expect it to fall to the ground around her first press conference, should she deign to hold one, or the VP debate.

I find it rather interesting that Obama's huge haul has to be people buying the party, whereas I suppose McCain's contributors are doing it all for love.

Uh huh. Of course the polls were tied before the DNC and they're tied now. Always a good time for a hail mary. Also a good idea to assume Palin will suddenly get a case of the hyst-erics at the debates and implode. The way this conversation has been going in the media, I wouldnt be surprised to see speculation about how the ol womanlies will affect the last 90 days.

B ut AJL isn't it at all interesting that in the last cycle, the average donor to the D's was a fatter cat than the average donor to the R's? I'll do some digging (and would welcome the help!!) and see if I can come up with anything for this cycle.

A.L.

Saw a report that the average convention attendee for the Dems was wealthier than the R's also.

This is, I would add, one of those cases where you need to know if it's a mean or a median.

Unbeliever:
Pls show us a quote of Obama belittling her.

That aside Palin was a good tactical pick. The problem is she is going to suffer from the Candidate for VP Palin vs Gov Palin problem: the bridge to nowhere and her hired gun for earmarks is just a start. Alaskan Seperatist party, Troopergate and the fact she has told oil drillers w/ permits to drill to drill or lose them puts her squarely in Democratic territory of using what you have not speculating in land for the future

Pls show us a quote of Obama belittling her.

“Well, my understanding is that Governor Palin’s town of Wasilla has I think 50 employees. We’ve got 2,500 in this campaign. I think their budget is maybe $12 million a year. You know, we have a budget of about three times that just for the month. So I think that our ability to manage large systems and to execute I think has been made clear over the last couple of years.” Sen. Obama (CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees,” 9/1/08)

Given that she's currently a governor overseeing 25,000 employees and a $12 billion budget and not a mayor, this strikes me as an attempt by Obama to both mislead and belittle the woman.