As long as there are human beings like him, Hope will survive.

Gee, I wonder how Charlie Rangel (congessman from NY) explains a “child of priviledge” like Pat Tillman. Hey, Charlie ‘looks like Mr. Tillman asked what he “could do for his country. Not what his country could do for him.”

[JK: MVH, on any other day I would have let the whole thing stand. I happen to share (or even exceed) your opinion of Rep. Rangel, but Saturdays here are about raising up the positive, which your previous paragraph did. Don't want this thread to become a political debate - not what Saturdays here are for. We can always go get 'em tomorrow, y'know? So, I removed this paragraph. Hope you understand.]

A person like Pat Tillman smotes the jealous, encourages the struggling, and confirms the faithful.

Condolences to the Tillman Family

PAT TILLMAN
Requiescat In Pace
Amen

As I emailed Joe, the finest tribute I've yet to see was from Cori Dauber:

http://rantingprofs.typepad.com/rantingprofs/2004/04/there_is_a_very.html

THERE IS A VERY FINE LINE
All three networks start with the story of NFL player Pat Tillman, who gave up a lucrative career after September 11th to join the Army, and was killed today in Afghanistan. Tillman, no doubt, was a hero, the same as they are all heroes, and there is a very fine line between truly moving, almost lyrical tributes to this man, and stories that are borderline offensive.

Let's get it straight: what made this man special is not the fact that he was a star, and he didn't have to go. They are all stars, and none of them have to go. Perhaps most folks who join the military will never be in professions that will pay that well. And most will, obviously, not be in careers where they will hit their stride that young. Tillman knew what he was walking away from. Most only know what they have the potential to be: the lawyer, the doctor, the engineer, who will never come to pass if they are killed in a combat zone. Tillman was walking away from a sure thing.

But what really made Tillman special was that despite the money we pay pro athletes, we are paying them to play a game, and he had the maturity to understand what many, many men far, far older still don't -- that games are, in the end, children's things, while helping to defend a nation is a grown-up's work, even if we pay so much more for the work more appropriate to a child then for the work that only a grown man can do. And that is what made Pat Tillman, in the end, a hero.

It is something, apparently, beyond the ken of those attempting to eulogize him at CBS News, who turn his death into a football story. Players and coaches are interviewed, game clips showed. (I encourage you to play their videoclip.) The greatest testament to this man's memory will be that he understood how to put sports in their proper perspectative and keep them there. How sad CBS could not see fit to memorialize him in the same way.

Update: On a day while there is debate over whether photographing the arrival of coffins at Dover might interfere with the families privacy or not, I hope we can all agree that when NBC reports, "today, an official Army delegation arrived at the home of Tillman's wife to deliver the news," and camera crews are there to film their arrival, that that is without a doubt an intrusion. So a reminder to my friends who want the coffin photos made available -- I would be more eager to agree if a way could be worked out to get the photos but keep the press out of it. Because all too often, this is their idea of behaving with dignity and respecting a family's privacy and grief. If they want something, they are shameless, and will respect nothing.

Here's to you, Pat Tillman.

Pat Tillman - Hero, I have yet to see proof.

Pat Tillman - Patriot, I agree.

A hero is someone who does something of outstanding bravery, and I don't count not signing a contract as heroic.

A missionary standing up to bandits about to ransack an orphanage is heroic, a man who joins the army when he could have done something else is just a guy who wants to go off and kill his countries enemy.

He is a patriot, but not a hero (unless someone can offer some proof his heroism).

Andy

ANDY NOT NOW! HAVE YOU NO SHAME?

Peter UK,

What?

I have read lots of truely heroic stories and this does not compare.

I salute Pat's patriotism, he did what he thought was right and he paid the ultimate price carrying out his duties.

My hackles are raised by the comparison to a true hero though, it does them a dis-service imho.

Andy

Sua Sponte Ranger Tillman - RLTW

requiescat i pace

Dave A 2/75 75-78

Andy,

Everyone who is in Iraq or Afghanistan is there because they chose to be. Everyone who dies there in our service gives up not oly everything they have, but everything they could ever be.

Tillman is remebered more because not only chose to go there. He also sacrificed a life athletic celebrity to be one of those self-less "rough men" who stands between home & hearth and the barbarian death cult. A death cult that not only killed thousands of his fellow citizen's, but made their ends a hell of agony and specticle to fuel their blood fantasies.

That counts a great deal on the "hero" side of ledger in my book.

But then, some people will never get this. You comments will likely be much better appreciated here:

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/04/286523.shtml

Andy,If you cannot see that discussing the man in the abstract before he is even cold in his grave,lacks,how should I put it,a certain ammount of moral sensiblity.
Deconstruct the actions of as many heros as you wish,but the initial human response is one of mourning.
It saddens me that you cannot even understand this.

Tillman actually passed on a $9 million contract with the Rams in 2001 to stay with the Cardinals for $3.6 million out of loyalty to the team.

I concur with Andy. I think that Pat Tillman was incredibly brave and corageous for taking up with the Rangers over signing lucrative nultimillion dollar contracts. However, we cannot losely extend to Mr. Tillman the definition of being a hero unless an actual event has occured to make us believe Mr. Tillman is a hero. Simply risking your life for a cause is not enough to constitute being a hero. Men and women risk their lives every day for others, some even for volunteer (my friend is a volunteer fireman) work.

There were many killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, which is surely a tragedy. But we dont call them heroes. They did the work they were hired to do or the work they signed up for. They may risk their lives, and for that we will be forever grateful. They do the work many wont do. However, heroes are people who do something truly exemplary. Some of the people who died on September 11th can truly be classified as heroes, because they sacrificed their lives so others may live. Being a hero is something you dont get from risking your life. Its the status you achieve when you've truly done something with your life.

RIP Pat Tillman, you've served as a great example for many.

Josh
Read the details of how he died. In a firefight trying to put down fire to protect his comrades. Then talk about heroes. Forget not that all those who died doing the work they were hired to do, across our history, BOUGHT you the right to express your opinion here.

Andy-
You need to reconsider your definition of a "hero". You are somehow locked into an elementary definition with standards that only you understand.
The nature of service in a line infantry unit is dangerous enough during training, multiply that about 10 times and that might come close to actual combat. While you're at it, crank it up another ten fold and that would represent the intensity of missions conducted by Special Operations Forces like the Ranger Regiment Pat Tillman seved with.
I consider all of our soldiers Heroes, so it's not a stretch to say he fits in that category.
It took courage to leave a comfortable life, it took courage to volunteer for the Rangers and it certainly takes courage to do the job of a Ranger day after day in a hostile and fluid environment.

Think about that as you order a meal in your favorite restuarant next time or snuggle up to your wife after a hard day at the office. I do.

JC. OUT.

Pat Tillman was and IS a HERO, regardless of what Andy and Josh have to say. For once, i'd challenge both Andy and Josh to see of they have the B***s to even go and sign a Ranger contract, leave aside actually training and finishing Ranger School, and then taking part in ops.
It is easy to make disrespectful comments from the anonymity of cyberspace - unlike what Pat Tillman did, he who went to Iraq and Afghanistan to confront our country's enemies.
And at least have the decency to give a fallen soldier and hero the respect he deserves. Your failing to do that only shows up the shortcomings of your own character.

It's easy to get bogged down in the semantics of what a hero is. As I've learned more about what Pat Tillman achieved during his too short life of twenty eight years, I have only respect and reverence. He was a true renaissance man, achieving brilliance scholastically, financially, and professionally. Then he had the courage and moral compass to intellectually determine what he had to do and act on it, regardless of the consequences. I imagine someone will find a flaw in his makeup or past and it will be widely reported. I don't care. To me he has set his mark as high as he could, and that mark is so very high. I can only try to be worthy of the sacrifice he made, and use his example as my own North star. We can't honor him enought. God bless his wife, his brother and the rest of his family.

“I'm sad beyond words that he died. And very, very glad that he lived.”
That’s the best comment one can make about Pat.

Josh,I'm sure Pat Tillman's family and friends will be comforted by your words.What kind of moral vacuum do you inhabit, where a man's life can be analysed dispassionately immediately after his death?
That is the point, it is called respect for the dead.

Hey JK and MVH, I won't pretend to understand why you both decided to take a cheap shot at Rep. Charlie Rangel in a tribute to a fallen soldier, Pat Tillman. Rep. Rangel was awarded the Purple Heart and the Bronze Star in the Korean War.

The ranks of the military contain very few "children of priveledge", that is simply a fact. The well off are not represented in the volunteer force, Mr. Rangel's opinion in that matter is entirely correct and Pat Tillman's rare, noble sacrifice is the extremely rare exception.

My heart goes out to Mr. Tillmans family.

Anyone, anyone who puts there lives on the line for someone else is a hero. Pat Tillman gave up all he had just to serve his country. How many other people can say that. Not only that but how many would do that. THANK YOU ARMY RANGER PAT TILLMAN.

Pat Tillman as well as all those that are serving in the military are heroes. What I find interesting is that those that tend to lean to the left side of the aisle don't understand why most people are embracing this guy as a hero. Simply put, he's a throw back to where this country was 50 years ago. He embodies the essence of the American spirit. Something that the 'me' generation of today has a hard time grasping, and that is so very sad. If my children can live their life with the attitude that he did, they will be able to accomplish whatever they what and I would be the proudest father on this rock. Not because of what they will be able to accomplish but because of how they will live the lives. He became a hero of mine when he turned down the Rams offer for more money out of loyalty, and did nothing to diminish my view of him since. He has given me inspiration, and is someone that I will point to when my children need inspiration. And that my friends is a hero! God bless you Pat Tillman

Time to end the hero debate. From http://www.webster.com. Even if you question 1d, see esp. definitions 1b, 1c, 4...

Main Entry: he·ro
Pronunciation: 'hir-(")O, 'hE-(")rO
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural heroes
Etymology: Latin heros, from Greek hErOs

1 (a) : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability (b) : an illustrious warrior © : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities (d) : one that shows great courage

2 (a) : the principal male character in a literary or dramatic work (b) : the central figure in an event, period, or movement

3 plural usually heros

4 : an object of extreme admiration and devotion

This is not about literary descriptions of specific deeds and acts.

All who have fought and died in the war against terrorism is a hero.

It' can't be simpler than that. We may not hear of the well off lawyer who volunteers and dies. We may not hear of a young woman, scared to death,, huddling behind the only cover, who dies.

All volunteered. All fought on our behalf. Nitpicking between "Patriot" and "Hero" is a child's game, perhaps best debated in sophomore English.

So Pat Tillman had more fame, was better known....he no less than the lawyer or the frightened young women died for their country. All are heroes.

Andy and Josh, Mr. Tillman died for your right to be mooncalves. Be grateful for fighters like him. I pray that we never have to rely on softheads like the two of you to preserve our freedoms.

Sports Illustrated has an internet article on the posthumous awarding of the Silver Star to Pat Tillman - something which was justly deserved given the information the article contains.

Of particular interest to me was the article mentioning General Abizaid's having taking the time to contact Cpl Tillman's platoon leader to ask about the incident.

As most who read this blog would assume major media misses something that might establish a connection between Abizaid and Tillman.

You see - 1st Lt. John Abizaid once lead a Ranger platoon in A Company 2nd Bn (Ranger) 75th Inf. (Abn) (Tillman's company). I know since I was essentially "attached at the hip" to him as a radio operator (05B2V) for the better part of a year.

Anyway, the link to the Sports Illustrated article about Tilman's Silver Star is here:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/football/nfl/04/30/bc.fbn.tillman.silverst.ap/index.html

Sports Illustrated has an internet article on the posthumous awarding of the Silver Star to Pat Tillman - something which was justly deserved given the information the article contains.

Of particular interest to me was the article mentioning General Abizaid's having taking the time to contact Cpl Tillman's platoon leader to ask about the incident.

As most who read this blog would assume major media misses something that might establish a connection between Abizaid and Tillman.

You see - 1st Lt. John Abizaid once lead a Ranger platoon in A Company 2nd Bn (Ranger) 75th Inf. (Abn) (Tillman's company). I know since I was essentially "attached at the hip" to him as a radio operator (05B2V) for the better part of a year.

Anyway, the link to the Sports Illustrated article about Tilman's Silver Star is here:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/football/nfl/04/30/bc.fbn.tillman.silverst.ap/index.html

Pat Tillman was and is a hero!Like others have already said, I am so so saddened by his death, and yet I am so glad he lived.Trust me, this old world would be a much better place to live if there were many more just like him, but thats the problem, there arent nearly enough. God bless Pat and his family

It seems like there is a lot of conflict over what constitutes what a hero is.Well,putting your life on the line, leaving behind wealth, comfort, family and friends,and giving all that up when someone doesnt have to?How many of us would have done the same?How many of us would leave behind a young wife, riches, family, and all kinds of friends, a very, very comfortable life to sacrifice in a remote, very dangerous part of the world?If HE isnt a HERO, then there never has been any as far as Im concerned.

As a retired 3 time combat veteran of Operation Silver Eagle, Operation Desert Shield and Operation Desert Storm this is my comment. It does not matter how a hero dies, what counts is how he lived. Pat Tillman lived well. He was a fine role model for our young people. He played hard and fought for what he felt was right. How many people do you know today, with those kind of convictions? You can count on one hand the number of athletes we have today who would give their multi-million dollar contracts up and die for you or I. The number of fingers you'd have up? One, Pat Tillman.

The entire military "version" of events surrounding Tillman's death has been proven now to be 100% false. There was no ambush, just a roadside bomb that went off and the frightened Rangers panicked and began shooting wildly, thinking they were being ambushed. Upon exiting the canyon they encountered the Afghan guide who was with the other half of the platoon and again panicked and shot him to death. Next to him, taking shelter behind a boulder, was Pat Tillman and as he waved his arms wildly and repeatedly yelled "Cease firing! I'm Pat F-ing Tillman!" as he was gunned down at a distance of under 100 metres by the "highly trained elite" Rangers. For this he gets a Silver Star, the second-highest Army medal?? Brigadier General Gary Jones said he was given the award mostly "for what he intended to do". So if a soldier were to tell his buddy that if he gets in combat he plans to singlehandedly kill or capture 100 of the enemy, but gets killed by a sniper before he even sees the enemy, then would that soldier get a Silver Star for "what he intended to do"?? This is so obvious even a child could figure it out: The military is so desperate for "hero" stories to boost sagging public opinion that it resorts to inventing imaginary exploits and gives undeserved medals. Look at the whole Jessica Lynch fiasco and how (until she herself spoke up to contradict them) they had her fending off an Iraqi platoon singlehandedly until she was gravely wounded and ran out of ammunition, complete with their propaganda filming of her (unopposed) rescue. Utterly disgraceful.

whether or not a man or woman is supreme in combat or not, is not the issue. For a person to no longer see life as a means of serving the self and sacrifice themselves to what they believe in enables them to achieve something higher than what merely living to serve yourself. For me Pat Tilman and the many like him provide an inspiration that life is not always about living to line ones own pocket or achieving the recognition of celebrity. maybe its about forgeting ourselves and living for others and being prepared to lay the good life on the line for what we believe in as Pats well known case illustrates. Pat Tilman and the many like him, whether in military action or not, should serve as a lesson and reminder to all of us and make us think about what the true values of our individual lives really are.

My Dad served in Vietnam, My brother in 1st Desert Storm and still in today. I am a police officer and serve here at home. Pat Tillman is nothing more than a pure Hero, larger than life.
As is all of You who serve your mankind. You all make my saccrafices and that of my brothers worth living. God Bless the warriors of peace and hope where ever you may be and whatever uniform you wear. Thank You for this web site Pat Tillman led a better life than most of us and I will honor him forever. "Poi si 'torno all' eterna fontana."

I realize I am viewing this site much after the fact. What bothers me is this: Why haven't you updated anything about Pat Tillman's death? Does the truth (or the LIES for that matter) scare you away? Why not continue what you started, only do it for Pat and his family who are very much in need of knowing the truth surrounding his death. The military mystery surrounding his death is only one of many. I personally know of another just like Pat's. Jan Kirkpatrick

Seems to me the Tillman tragedy is that he didn't pay enough attnetion to his political science course as he did to game plays. He obviosly bought into the George Bush idea that Iraq was a justified war. Such a sorry decision.

It sucks that everyone now only seems to care about the "lies" and "scandal" behind the whole situation.

I know this is a touchy subject for most but I feel this guy Tillman was a gung ho wanna be a badass that bit off more than he could chew. I feel that all people who join the armed forces know what they are risking. This guy joins to go and kill some arabs, this war is not about our freedom its about protecting these rich azzholes financial interests. People can deny it all you want but that is exactly what our armed forces has become a security force to protect this nations upper echelon's financial interest nothing more. What makes this guy any different from the other guys who put their lives on the line to go over there?? They all gave up other lines of work to "Protect" this country, why do we not celebrate their deaths as heros?? We have all lost sight of what a hero is, my grandfather was one of the Bastards of Bostogne, they held a town in belgium with no reinforcements for 7 days of shelling with no food and no ammunition in the last 3 days, he was awarded the bronze star, purple heart among other medals for their heroism in this battle. These are heros, anyone who joins the military is not a hero, I do however honor them for their commitment but all who join are not doing it for the sake of the country, many are gung-ho azzholes who want to inflict pain and that think war is glorious it is not. Tillman was killed, this is what happends in war. War is not a video game its time we all realize the truth..