Winds of Change.NET: Potato-Potato*: Harleys in Europe

August 12, 2003

Potato-Potato*: Harleys in Europe

by Armed Liberal at August 12, 2003 2:52 PM

Den Beste puts his Europhobic glasses on and writes about the emasculation of Harley-Davidson as a metaphor for Europe's intended emasculation of America. All bloggers have viewpoints, and all bloggers tend to opine about things they know little or nothing about - isn't that what blogging is for?

But in this case a) he touches on something close to home for me - motorcycles; and b) he does so in a way that allows me to make a point about those who persist in seeing things about Europe and the U.S. too negatively and rigidly. And c) I get to defend government regulation as a freebie. He writes:

(On Screen): An American institution is looking to expand its sales in Europe. Harley Davidson is the quintessential American motorcycle maker, and for about 3 decades it was the only one (though that has changed). Once there were many but all the others went out of business, fallen in commercial competition with Honda, Kawasaki, BMW, Suzuki, Yamaha.

Harley survived and prospered. It was seen by Americans as the ultimate motorcycle, the one you bought when you refused to make compromises. Harley earned a degree of brand loyalty that few companies could even dream of. Harley wasn't just a bike, it was a lifestyle. One didn't just buy a Harley, one became Harley. Harley wasn't just a brand, it was a brotherhood. ... Adapting to a market is good marketing, but what price victory if you lose your soul? Harley Davidson is changing everything that makes Harley Davidson what it is. To satisfy Europe, they will make them smaller, lighter, wimpier, less powerful, quieter, less in-your-face, more effeminate. Harley is trying to find its inner wuss.

These bikes will be Americans the way that Europeans wish Americans were, more like European men. And they're probably going to sell extremely well, as European men everywhere take pleasure in riding on a castrated American bike.

Here's where knowing your subject can be useful.

The 'new bike' he's talking about is the V-Rod, the first overhead-cam, water-cooled mass production Harley (it's based on a limited production, highly unsuccessful sportbike called the VR1000). For the gearheads in the crowd, I'll point out that in 2003, all the other Harleys are still air-cooled, pushrod OHV engines - a design Japan and Europe largely abandoned twenty or thirty years ago. So let's go to the stats (source: Motorcyclist Magazine):

H-D Dyna-Glide: has 62.5hp and 76.3ft-lb of torque; turns the 1/4 in 13.5 seconds

H-D V-Rod: has 109.3hp and 74.3ft-lb of torque; 1/4 mile in 11.31 seconds

For comparison:

Triumph Sprint ST (my main bike, made in the UK): 99.8hp and 62.0ft-lb; 1/4 mile in 11.52

Suzuki GSXR1000: 152.1hp and 78.0ft-lb; 1/4 mile in 10.08 seconds.

"...less powerful, quieter, less in-your-face, more effeminate." Steven?

The loud part of most of the cruisers one sees on the street is aftermarket pipes, which manage to be illegal, annoying, and often actually reduce the available power...substituting the sensation of speed and power for the real thing.

Actually, Harley is in a kind of a pickle, It is very difficult to meet noise and pollution regulations with air-cooled engines; particularly large-displacement air-cooled engines. Regulations already on the books in Europe and California will make it difficult for them to sell their existing products over the next ten to fifteen years. The interesting business challenge (and the reason I'd short H-D stock) is to convert their customer base, built on tradition and style, to a new platform.

Now before we complain about the inherent unfairness of regulation in this case, let's start with this: Harley-Davidson exists today because of government intervention in free markets. The Japanese started making transportation devices ... mopeds and scooters, and by the 70's had begun to develop good big-bore (which back then was over 500cc) motorcycles. Harley was owned at the time by AMF, a leisure and sporting-goods conglomerate, and they were building motorcycles which effectively represented the peak of 1950's technology. They went to the mattresses:

In September of 1982, Harley-Davidson petitioned the U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC) for relief from the importation of heavyweight motorcycles and power-train subassemblies (an engine part). The petition was filed under Section 201 of the Trade Act of 1974, known as the "Escape Clause," which allows an industry to request import relief from foreign competition when increasing imports are causing or threatening serious injury to the domestic industry. In these cases, the ITC investigates the claim and then reports to the president. If the finding is affirmative, the executive branch examines the matter and the president makes a decision within 60 days.

They got their tariff, and the Japanese and Europeans were effectively shut out of the big-bore motorcycle market.

They used their period of protection effectively, beginning a process of re-engineering their motorcycles and building a strong retail brand - using mainstream retailing and brand-building techniques.

De gustibus non disputum est (there's no accounting for taste) is certainly true in the world of motorcycling. I've ridden most of the existing Harley models, and haven't chosen to spend my money on them, because, like many riders, I feel they are overpriced, underpowered, handle and brake poorly, and have a reputation (which they are well on their way to shedding) for unreliability. And, bluntly, because instead of buying a motorcycle to ride, I would feel like I was paying an expensive initiation into a club.

Europeans ride. They ride a lot, both as cheap and economical transportation in their congested cities, and as recreation where they ride like absolute loons on their mountain and country roads. Tenacious G and I did a tour of Northern Italy, Corsica and Sardinia on motorcycles, and the people there ride damn well, hard and fast.

So I think I can pretty comfortably state that there just aren't a lot of facts to support Steven's thesis; and that, in fact, the post says more about him and his pre-judgment of Europe and the relations between them and us than about the reality of the motorcycle industry.

I've said before that they are not our allies except on a case-by-case basis. But we are going to need them in this case - we need them now. And the more we can see and respect them as they are - hard-riding, good engineers, with qualities that we can at times learn from - the better chance we have of getting them to see and respect us as we are as well.

--- NOTES & UPDATES ---

N.B. * = For those who don't know, the idle of a Harley is typically sounded out as 'potato, potato'. Harley, in fact, unsuccesfully attempted to trademark the sound.

"That's Mister Euroweenie Biker To You!": As reader Jon Hendry notes in the comments, some of those Euro bikers carry shoulder-launched missiles.

More deeply informed commentary from Mike Hendrix, who knows a thing or two about bikes himself. He's less pleased by the changes, or the regulations, but he makes good points and notes some important subtleties. He follows that up with a good response to this article.

Capitalist Lion says: "soul must eventually give way to innovation."

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"Potato-Potato*: Harleys in Europe"

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Comments

#1 from someone at 4:00 pm on Aug 12, 2003

This post is a little late to the party... (Or should it be 'missing' the 'boat'?)

#2 from vaara at 5:28 pm on Aug 12, 2003

I used to ride rice-burners all over the West Coast, and the one observation I have to make about Harley©®™ riders is this:

They don't wave.

#3 from Rand Simberg at 5:33 pm on Aug 12, 2003

Yes, I've never understood the appeal of Harleys. I've always thought them ugly, loud, uncomfortable, and as you said, terrible handling. And I was appalled at the protectionism in the eighties.

#4 from BJ at 5:44 pm on Aug 12, 2003

I must be wierd. I've always like the look of Harleys (now, bear in mind that as much as I'd love to, I don't ride, so take that as you will). Personally, I don't know from performance, but I think the new V-Rod is a sharp bike from a visual standpoint, and if the performance is what you say, I'm left to wonder what den Beste's beef is.

Then again, I'm usually left with that question about him.

#5 from Seb at 5:45 pm on Aug 12, 2003

As Den Beste seemed to concede in an argument with a reader about that entry, his aim wasn't to make a well researched or informed post, but rather to make a joke (ha ha) at the expense of Europe. Shorter Steven Den Beste

#6 from Jon H at 5:53 pm on Aug 12, 2003

Someone should remind SdB about the high-end European sportscars that aren't legal in the US. (Did Bill Gates ever get his Porsche 959 out of customs?)

Aren't those effete Euro bikers the ones who have used shoulder-launched missiles against each other?

Ah yes. Here we are:

Danish biker war escalates to missile launch

October 6, 1996
Web posted at: 9:40 a.m. EDT (1540 GMT)

COPENHAGEN, Denmark (CNN) -- An anti-tank grenade ripped through the headquarters of the Hells Angels motorcycle gang in Copenhagen early Sunday, killing two and injuring at least 17.

Police suspect the attack, from a shoulder-fired anti-tank missile-launcher, was the work of the Bandidos biker gang. Copenhagen Police Superintendent Fleming Munch told CNN that the rival gangs have been engaged in a months-long, bloody battle over territory.

Because of the hostilities between the two gangs, the clubhouse was under police surveillance at the time of the attack. Some 300 people, some from other countries, were at the clubhouse for the Hell's Angels' annual "Viking Party."

Police murder squad chief Kurt Jensen told reporters that the missile, fired from a yard across the street, sliced through a beer tent in the back yard of the Hell's Angels clubhouse before striking a corner of the building. Authorities also found the spent launcher and another containing a live missile nearby, Jensen said.

The launchers were compatible with 12 stolen from a military weapons store in Sweden in February 1994. Missiles identified from the stolen weapons were fired at two Danish Hell's Angels clubhouses last April.

Police did not immediately release the names of those killed and wounded in Sunday's attack, which came around 3 a.m. Neighbors said the blast set off alarms on cars parked in the neighborhood.

The two deaths early Sunday were the first fatalities for the Hell's Angels in the 3-year-long turf battle. Three Bandidos have been shot in 1996, and their attempts at revenge have injured a handful of Hell's Angels.

The two Danish gangs have fewer than 100 full members each, but their bitter feud has drawn increasing public resentment. Danish Prime Minister Poul Nyrup Rasmussen has pledged to grant more police powers to fight the gangs, and a bill to bar them from residential neighborhoods had its first reading in Parliament on Friday.

#7 from Trent Telenko at 6:03 pm on Aug 12, 2003

Jon H

You would not believe the looks I get when I tell the tale of the "Nordic Biker Wars" between the Scandanavian chapters of the Hell's Angels and the Banditos.

This was the euro-cops first big clue that the fall of the wall meant bad things in terms of organized crime's access to automatic and crew served infantry weapons.

I really wonder what the French cops would find in the "cities" if they really had the nerve to look.

I expect that what they fear they will find is the reason they have not.

#8 from badri at 6:06 pm on Aug 12, 2003

love it . i will send it to a biker friend. and great quote.lol
...all bloggers tend to opine about things they know little or nothing about - isn't that what blogging is for?

#9 from timid at 6:18 pm on Aug 12, 2003

Why anyone buys the crap the HD builds is beyond my comprehension. The Harley riders I know are nice enough folks; just uniformed about what they call a quality motorcycle.

Oh... and my air-cooled BMW (R1200C) rides just fine thank you; despite it being based on technology which "Europe largely abandoned twenty or thirty years ago". Drop me a line and I'll let you take it out for a spin sometime. ;)

cheers.

--BMW r1200c owner in seattle.

#10 from vaara at 6:38 pm on Aug 12, 2003

You want hard-core? Get a Ural. Talk about paleolithic technology!

As long as we're pitting America against Europe, cojones-wise, at least Europe trusts its motorcyclists enough to allow them to lane-share. The only place in the U.S. that tolerates such behavior is that blue state par excellence, California.

#11 from Solly Ezekiel at 6:45 pm on Aug 12, 2003

Well, that's a relief. When I read the part about bikers packing shoulder-launched missiles, I assumed they were doing so while riding...

My guess is that SDB read Well Made in America, since some of the examples he cites (such as the degree of brand loyalty that leads people to tattoo the corporate logo on themselves) were mentioned in the book. He probably then felt qualified to blog about Harleys. Just goes to show you that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

#12 from Armed Liberal at 6:46 pm on Aug 12, 2003

Trent -

As far as I know, there have been at least two armored-car robberies in France using shoulder-launched antitank missles. Wild, wild, west - indeed.

A.L.

#13 from Solly Ezekiel at 6:49 pm on Aug 12, 2003

One more. I wonder whether the Harley engineers will tune the muffler on the V-Rod to make it sound more like "pomme-de-terre-pomme-de-terre"...

#14 from Lavoisier1794 at 7:03 pm on Aug 12, 2003

I used to ride rice-burners all over the West Coast, and the one observation I have to make about Harley��™ riders is this:

They don't wave.

They only dont wave to people who ride rice burners...

#15 from Felix Deutsch at 7:11 pm on Aug 12, 2003

On the aftermarket pipes:

Preferring appearance over real power is known as the rice-boy syndrome for car owners and it's a generally accepted sign for sissiness, idiocy and (mostly warranted) fear of inadequacy.

I wonder if SDB is already through his batch of Penis Enlargement pills.

#16 from Joe Katzman at 7:31 pm on Aug 12, 2003

Why, Felix? Do you have some extras you could lend him?

Gratuitous insults are easy... let's try to keep discussions more interesting than that.

#17 from Eric at 7:46 pm on Aug 12, 2003

Trant and A.L.:

And don't forget the recent
*French prison escapes*, which sound more like bad Jerry Bruckheimer movies:

"Gunmen opened fire on guardposts and used explosives to blow holes in walls at a prison in a Paris suburb Wednesday, freeing a reputed gangster suspected of murder and robbery....

According to initial police reports, six or seven gunmen arrived outside the jail at about 4:30 a.m. Wednesday.

One group fired at guardposts with automatic weapons while another group of bomb experts set off explosives that blew open a metal gate around the prison and made holes in interior walls, springing Ferrara. It was his second jailbreak."

Other escapes have involved helicopter airlifts and bazookas. Even Euroweenies are scary they have high explosives. =P

Anyway, those Parisian police might want to think about taking more of a look...

#18 from nick at 7:57 pm on Aug 12, 2003

33) When you do the wave to a Harley on the highway and they don't wave
back, it is strangely satisfying...

40) 'People who ride Ducatis don't have mid-life crises.'

#19 from Kevin Drum at 7:59 pm on Aug 12, 2003

Several months ago SdB made a similar argument about Europe using cell phone standards as a launching point. SdB really does know a lot about cell phone standards, but his analogy was every bit as bad as it was in this case.

Something tells me the problem here is SdB's judgment, not his knowledge base.

#20 from Omnibus Bill at 8:23 pm on Aug 12, 2003

Most Harleys are nice to look at, have lots of style, and have very low performance compared to even the humblest Jap sport bike.

The V-Rod, on the other hand, while enraging Harley traditionalists, has fairly high performance, and it looks really good in a modern aircraft kinda way - not in the Sopwith Camel way that Evos and prior Harleys look.

As a guy who was weaned on high performance sport bikes, the V-Rod is the only Harley I'd buy. (Antique WDs notwithstanding).

Nope, the V-Rod is a badass. Nothing emasculated about it. In fact, if it was a dog, it would be a bull terrier - low, strong and ferocious. In fact, it would probably need a nip and a tuck on the old sack, 'cuz its cojones are so big they nearly drag on the ground...

I love DenBeste, but he's way wrong on this one.

#21 from Lilli Marleen at 8:28 pm on Aug 12, 2003

At least - in the one or the other European country bikers are allowed to really drive and not just creep on the streets because of the speed limit ;-)

#22 from Harry Tuttle at 8:50 pm on Aug 12, 2003

Geez, hasn't the whole hardened, hairy, mean and ugly Harley rider myth been dashed to pieces by the swarms of thinly bearded lawyers who dress in leathers every weekend to take their $20k HDs out already? How much more demasculinization can you have?

#23 from Gideon S at 10:00 pm on Aug 12, 2003

I was talking to a guy here in town the other day who had a bright orange harley. Nice paint job as well. It had been a police bike. Anyway, he only road the thing to the coffee shop and back to his house. Seems pretty typical. 18k to ride 2 or 3 miles a week. I guess if you have the dough and that's what you want...

#24 from Porphyrogenitus at 10:18 pm on Aug 12, 2003

Haruko hits people over the head with a bass guitar, dodges bullets, and drives a vespa of all things.

Based on that admittedly tiny and fictional sample, I'd say you can't tell how tough anyone is by the vehicle they drive.

#25 from Young Freud at 1:12 am on Aug 13, 2003

Trent Telenko and Eric:

Why do you think French police usually carry assault rifles, or at least have them close by in a patrol car or in a post?

Porphyrogenitus:

I see someone has seen FLCL.

BTW, the French army used Vespas equipped with 90mm recoilless rifles as transport and support for airborne troops in the 1950s. It's hilarious to see pictures of the things, with the gigantic muzzle and long barrel going straight through the front shield on the scooter.

#26 from buttercup at 1:16 am on Aug 13, 2003

As has been noted you do not get a Harley for performance (if you do you are an idiot). You get a Harley for looks and style, its a image. Thing is I think they are butt ugly. With so many alternatives available , the list is endless, that are so much cooler I do not know why anyone would get a Harley. I just got back from Sturgis and am ever more convinced that only mindless sheep who think they can buy cool would waste their cash on Harley (or OCC). Hell, Arlen Ness had bikes that started out at in the mid 20s. The V-Rod is a cool Harley, but is low on my list of cool bikes.

#27 from Rick at 1:45 am on Aug 13, 2003

...like many riders, I feel they are overpriced, underpowered, handle and brake poorly, and have a reputation (which they are well on their way to shedding) for unreliability. And, bluntly, because instead of buying a motorcycle to ride, I would feel like I was paying an expensive initiation into a club.

Sounds like a PC user describing a Macintosh, doesn't it?

Despite the fact that Harley's Wauwatosa plant is just over the rise from my home, and the Milwaukee plant (which is across the street from Miller Brewing) is between me and downtown... I've never ridden a Harley and have less inclination to do so.

Still, while what you say is true, I think that much of it is beside the point for a Harley rider.

If you judge anything by criteria which it wasn't designed to meet, it will fail.

Harley is all those things. None of them, really, matter. because they aren't trying (or haven't been) to produce the thing you are compaing them to.

It takes the form of a motorcycle, sure. But that's not what it is. It's a Harley.

#28 from Donovan Janus at 7:22 am on Aug 13, 2003

Shoulder-launched missiles... Hey A.L., imagine how cool that looks blowing up SUVs with 'Vote Schwarzenegger' stickers on my bike... (and imagine the irony if the SUV I blow up is his.. but those odds are worth taking don't ya think?)

#29 from Kristjan Wager at 9:42 am on Aug 13, 2003

Not that it really matters, but just to clearify a few things - the HA and Bandidos bikers in Denmark mostly rides Harleys. They are chapters of American biker gangs (Hell's Angels and Undertakers), and thus wants to ride US bikes. Also it's an image thing.

"This was the euro-cops first big clue that the fall of the wall meant bad things in terms of organized crime's access to automatic and crew served infantry weapons"

As most of the weapons used in that biker war was stolen from military depots in the Nordic countries, I fail to see what the fall of the wall has to do with anything.
There were also a Danish biker war in the early eighties, and while the weapons were less sophisticated, the numbers of dead and wounded were actually higher.

#30 from vaara at 10:55 am on Aug 13, 2003

Rick: any idea if the Motor Company is planning to distribute earplugs to the local population during the upcoming celebrations? They could make 'em black and stamp itty-bitty H-D logos on them... it would be a great PR gesture.

Disclaimer: I used to live 1/2 block south of the Sunset Strip, and spent many a sleepless weekend night thanks to the endless parade of ear-splitting V-twins riding up and down the boulevard, with nothing between me and them but a single sheet of plate glass and a vacant lot. So, to put it mildly, I have some significant noise-pollution issues.

#31 from rkb at 8:31 pm on Aug 13, 2003

Comparing Harleys to racing bikes is beside the point.

You want a Hawg to take a 2000 mi road trip through the southwest or across the Plains. That's why the feet-first posture is so important, just as a western saddle is best for working on horseback for days on end, no matter how useful it is to "post" from a jockey-style forward-over-the-withers posture when racing horses.

Different setting, different priorities. Agree the engineering had become stale, so I do like the V-Rod & am thinking of springing for one. Actually 2 if my significant other buys in.

#32 from EPD at 4:09 am on Aug 14, 2003

I've read these comments and those after DeBeste's and Cold Fury's blog posts. Some of you got close, but not completely. The average age of the motorcyclist for the entire industry has risen every year since 1980 (albeit at a steady rate). Only one company maintains an average age for its customer base that is greater than the industry average age - Harley-Davidson. HD does not offer entry-level motorcycles, thus longtime riders and re-entry riders (those who rode as teens or young adults and have returned to the sport as "empty-nesters") make up a substantial portion of their customers. The cost level of their product skews their average age higher too given that it attracts those who've reached the higher income levels of later working years. Finally, HD only offers product in the on-highway category, forsaking the entire off-highway segment that is an important market to the 18 to 35 demographic, the "family outdoor activity" demographic or the youth who transition to street bikes as adults demographic.

The sound/emissions issue is a factor too, but every motorcycle firm faces this and every firm is approaching it with the same homologation perspective as is HD. In this regard they are not unusual.

Thus, as brilliant a job as HD has done in creating a complete lifestyle around their product, they do not have an avenue to bring younger buyers into the fold nor, as noted in the article that started all this comment, to attract a significant number of Europeans who wouldn't be interested in the traditional Americana engine experience of the older HD platforms. The V-Rod is a platform - there will be much product developed from it. Regardless of what you think about the HD image and those who wish to adopt it, the visible steps you are seeing on the outside are the results of extremely well-considered and calculated plans on the inside. If the V-Rod platform isn't used to address the specific challenges facing HD discussed above, it is only because other concepts have already been scheduled to do so.

#33 from khr at 12:55 pm on Aug 15, 2003

I was strolling strayed around the blogosphere and came across this topic.

Harley Davidson has quite a fan base in Europe too, including blonde bombshell Brigitte Bardot:
http://www.chez.com/bbardot/disco/harley_d.htm
I just wonder what a macho HD biker would make of that ;-)

A few weeks ago there was a HD anniversary celebration here in Hamburg, with something like 30.000 bikes and 200.000 visitors.

Greetings
Karl Heinz

Hamburg, Germany