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The price of neglecting the public

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While I mentioned earlier that most of the anti-war movement is going to disregard the second phase of the SSIC report if it doesn't correspond to their pre-defined memes, one of the reasons these memes have grown so strong to begin with is that they have been supported by press reporting from circa June-July 2003 onwards. While it's extremely tempting from a traditional conservative paradigm to blame the media for all of this, it isn't quite that simple. The bottom line that the White House needs to recognize is that the press may well hate them, but that it isn't doing itself or its supporters any favors if it declines to even defend its positions.

As Dr. Ledeen astutely noted sometime earlier with regard to the media ruckus that erupted a little while ago in relation to the US burning the bodies of two Taliban grunts:

Meanwhile, our heroic media — the same ones urging the feckless Senator Richard Lugar of Indiana to get them a "shield law" — have been drooling over the story of some American soldiers apparently burning two dead bodies of our Taliban enemies in Afghanistan. The brave, the proud, Secretary Rumsfeld limited himself to remark that "charges of that type are harmful," and to call on Pentagon investigators to move with "a sense of urgency." The Associated Press thoughtfully tells us that "Pentagon lawyers had advised him to be careful about what he says because...remarks about the specifics...could complicate the proceedings."

Heaven forfend!

But I don't think even the Pentagon lawyers could object if Rumsfeld had called attention to another set of burning bodies, twice as many as in the Taliban incident. This one took place last month, and the victims were American. One of them was burned alive. They were contractors for KBR (owned by Halliburton), and they were in a convoy north of Baghdad when they took a wrong turn. According to the London Telegraph, "dozens of Sunni Arab insurgents [how would they know?] wielding rocket launchers and automatic rifles" attacked them. Two were killed, and the other two were dragged from the vehicle. One of those was shot in the back of the head, and the other was doused with gasoline and set on fire. "Barefoot children, yelping in delight, piled straw on to the screaming man's body to stoke the flames." Then the mob dragged the corpses through the streets "chanting anti-U.S. slogans."

I wonder why it took so long for that story to break, and I wonder why it came out in a British newspaper rather than an American one. Was it available to American journalists? The Washington Post, which picked up on the Telegraph story, said "there was no explanation for why the military did not report the deaths earlier." It's odd, but then this Pentagon, and the major media, are not very good at informing the American public about the nature of the people we are fighting. Particularly when there is great media excitement about the two Taliban bodies-which seem, so far as we know, to have been burned because they were decomposing close by our soldiers — it seems like Rumsfeld, or somebody, should have pointed out that Americans are being burned as well, sometimes living Americans. And there won't be any Pentagon lawyers investigating those "Sunni Arab insurgents."

It all smacks of media overwillingness to portray our troops in a bad light, and our government's ham-handed inability to paint a full, accurate picture of what's going on. There seems to be no assistant secretary of Defense in charge of public affairs. Maybe Rumsfeld could appoint one?

Emphasis mine.

Now here's the bottom line that the administration needs to take to heart: if you are going to make controversial or even non-controversial claims to the American people in the current political environment (one in which, in case you haven't noticed, you're on the defensive, in large part because of this foolishness), then you had better damned well be prepared to back such claims up with facts, particularly when they're questioned. That many of your critics have base or otherwise questionable motives for going against you is completely irrelevant - if a claim is true, it should hold up under legitimate scrutiny, otherwise it shouldn't be made to begin with. Of course, such a policy would also involve the administration directly addressing the issue of public ignorance as far as the current threat is concerned, something as of yet it would seem that they have no inclination of doing.

Should they decide to do so, however, my buddy Steve Hayes has some background on how things got to this point and how we might proceed from here:

The experience of the "16 words" controversy, however, led the president's aides to purge any fact or piece of evidence that could possibly be challenged--whether by vetters in the speechwriting process itself or in the media. "We didn't want to have a pissing match with the [Central Intelligence] Agency on the front page of the New York Times every time we put something out," says one former Bush administration official.

The default position was to refrain from publicly asserting anything that could possibly provoke a public debate, and the result has been that each new Iraq speech the president gives--however well written--ends up sounding a lot like the last speech the president gave. For the most part, the speeches have been heavy on assertions and light on arguments. So for most of his second term the president would claim that Iraq is the central front in the war on terror without stopping to explain why Iraq is the central front in the war on terror.

This reluctance comes not from a lack of arguments to make but from a fear that if the administration aggressively makes its case, the CIA will promptly seek to undermine it through leaks that wind up on the front pages. But this self-censorship is keeping the administration from making full use of the information at its disposal. Here are three examples.

When the president mentions Abu Musab al Zarqawi, current head of al Qaeda in Iraq, he rarely points out that Zarqawi was in Iraq before the war, and he never points out that Zarqawi's operatives were working closely with senior Iraqi Baathists even as U.S. troops were engaged in "major combat" in Iraq.

When the president notes the former Iraqi regime's support for terrorism--a rare occurrence these days--he never mentions Abdul Rahman Yasin, the lone fugitive from the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, who was provided assistance by the Iraqi regime in his flight from the United States. (That fact is not even controversial: It is cited in the July 2004 Senate Intelligence Committee report on prewar intelligence on Iraq.) The FBI is in possession of documents that indicate Yasin was given financial support by the regime of Saddam Hussein for a decade after his return to Iraq.

There are other documents from Iraq that would help the American public understand the nature of the former Iraqi regime and why a serious war on terror required its removal. Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) documents currently stored in a warehouse in Doha, Qatar, as part of the Defense Intelligence Agency's document exploitation project are a case in point. Many of these documents, listed in a database known as HARMONY, have rather provocative titles:

Money Transfers from Iraq to Afghanistan

Secret Meeting with Taliban Group Member and Iraqi Government (Nov. 2000)

Iraqi Effort to Cooperate with Saudi Opposition Groups and Individuals

Order from Saddam to present $25,000 to Palestinian Suicide Bombers' Families

IIS Reports from Embassy in Paris: Plan to Influence French Stance in UN Security Council

IIS Report on How French Campaigns are Financed

Improvised Explosive Devices Plan

Ricin research and improvement

There are thousands of similar documents. Many have already been authenticated and most are unclassified. That's worth repeating: Most are unclassified.

As Steve notes at the conclusion:

But if the White House refuses to challenge its critics, and refuses to explain in detail why Iraq is the central front in the war on terror, and refuses to discuss the flawed intelligence on Iraqi WMD, and refuses to use its tremendous power to remind Americans that Saddam Hussein was, in fact, a threat, then it risks losing the support of those Americans who continue to believe that the Iraq war, despite all of its many costs in blood and money, was worth it.

I would replace the "but" at the beginning with "as long as" since even if the White House has decided to take a time out from publicly challenging its critics, the critics certainly haven't themselves taken any time outs. If anything, they've only served to intensify their assault as (or if you like, and as a result) support for the war among the general public has continued to decline. While the White House seems to have taken what I regard as entirely appropriate action against those CIA officials who have decided to meddle in domestic politics in violation of the Agency's mandate, this is in effect winning a battle at the cost of the war, in the case the war for the hearts and minds of the American people.

But since they aren't willing to do so, I am, and as such I would like to address several specific stories that have surfaced over the last several weeks, all of which I came across thanks in no small part to the work of the wonderful Laura Rozen over at War and Piece whom, I think it entirely fair to say, disagrees with everything I just wrote and will disagree even more strenuously against everything I'm about to write.

Zarqawi

First, from Newsweek, we have this multi-subject story that touches on the following:

A secret draft CIA report raises new questions about a principal argument used by the Bush administration to justify the war in Iraq: the claim that Saddam Hussein was "harboring" notorious terror leader Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi prior to the American invasion.

... An updated CIA re-examination of the issue recently concluded that Saddam's regime may not have given Zarqawi "safe haven" after all.

The CIA declined to comment on the draft report. But officials tell NEWSWEEK that Zarqawi probably did travel to the Iraqi capital in the spring of 2002 for medical treatment. And, of course, there is no question that he is in Iraq now—orchestrating many of the deadly suicide bombings and attacks on American soldiers.

But before the American-led invasion, Saddam's government may never have known he was there. The reason: he used an alias and was there under what one U.S. intelligence official calls a "false cover." No evidence has been found showing senior Iraqi officials were even aware of his presence, according to two counterterrorism analysts familiar with the classified CIA study who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the matter.

An intelligence official told NEWSWEEK that the current draft says that "most evidence suggests Saddam Hussein did not provide Zarqawi safe haven before the war. It also recognizes that there are still unanswered questions and gaps in knowledge about the relationship."

The most recent CIA analysis is an update—based on fresh reporting from Iraq and interviews with former Saddam officials—of a classified report that analysts in the CIA's Directorate of Intelligence first produced more than a year ago. According to the Knight Ridder newspapers, the agency was originally asked to conduct that review of Saddam's dealings with Zarqawi by Vice President Dick Cheney.

Except it really isn't that simple and the document in question isn't nearly as clear-cut as the Newsweek or Knight-Ridder reporting on the topic would have you believe. Referencing the final copy of the document in question, here is what Rumsfeld said:

I just read an intelligence report recently about one person who's connected to al Qaeda who was in and out of Iraq and there's the most tortured description of why he might have had a relationship and why he might not have had a relationship.

This is an important thing to understand when seeing media reporting on the document - it's a pro/con piece that reflects divisions and unanswered questions within the intelligence community. If memory serves, I believe that open source reporting on the document (presumably from the "pro" section) also states that Saddam Hussein personally intervened to free some of Zarqawi's lieutenants from prison. Bottom line, it's a lot more ambiguous than either side wants it to be.

On the issue of the alias that Zarqawi used while in Baghdad, this is a far more clear-cut issue that the SSIC addresses at some length on pages 337-338. While most of the information is still classified, the report leaves little doubt that at an absolute minimum the Iraqi regime knew both who and where Zarqawi was but declined to arrest him. The report also makes reference to the fact that Zarqawi was not simply in Baghdad for medical attention but was actively in touch with (again, at minimum) the Ansar al-Islam forces in northern Iraq as well as members of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad whose statements provided the claim quoted by Powell at the UN that as far as al-Qaeda was concerned, the situation in Iraq was "good" and that Baghdad could be transited quickly.

Forged documents

Newsweek then turns to the issue of what appeared after the fall of Baghdad:

... In the months after U.S. and allied forces deposed Saddam, NEWSWEEK has learned, Iraqi informants approached U.S. intelligence personnel with what purported to be caches of documents proving that Saddam's dealings with Al Qaeda were extensive. (One cache of documents even claimed that six of 19 of the September 11 hijackers had been trained to fly in Iraq.) Current and former U.S. counterterrorism officials said that when officials at the Bush White House learned about the existence of documents linking Saddam to Al Qaeda, they became very excited and pressured intelligence agencies to work quickly to validate and decipher them. However, the CIA ultimately established that most key documents about the Saddam-Al Qaeda connection turned over were faked—just like the documents purporting to show Iraqi purchases of uranium.

These are two extremely vague paragraphs, but I'll throw out what I can on this, including the fact that it's entirely possible that some or even all of the people in government who told me that there is documentation of Iraqi ties to al-Qaeda said so on the basis of these documents (the article doesn't provide much of a time frame as far as when the CIA "ultimately established" that most of them were faked). I never heard anything like the 9/11 hijackers stuff from them either though, the closest I have heard was the past claims put forth by members of the Iraqi National Congress concerning Salman Pak (discussed on p. 332 of the report for those interested), but none of them were willing to go as far as explicitly naming which hijackers trained in Iraq. The closest one on that particular note is the Atta/Abu Nidal stuff that was used by Allawi rather than Chalabi and then leaked to the Daily Telegraph.

In any case, there is a thriving trade in false documents concerning the activities of the former Iraqi regime these days and has been ever since the US announced that it was willing to pay cash for such items. There was even a meme floating around various lefty blogs that the entire UNSCAM scandal was the work of forged documents put together by Chalabi, though I believe it's since been abandoned. For the right price, you can get documents in Baghdad telling you just about anything you want to know about the former regime, as anybody involved in the WMD hunt will tell you.

On the other hand, what I'm more interested in knowing as far as which documents turned out to be genuine rather than forged. In particular, I'm thinking of the following we have seen make it out into the general public that have apparently been reported as verified by our intelligence agencies:

  • a Mukhabarat document from 1992 listing bin Laden as an Iraqi collaborator.
  • an Iraqi Mukhabarat document detailing Iraqi meetings with al-Qaeda in Sudan in the mid-1990s.

Both of these, it should be noted, were provided by the INC, which should be taken as evidence even by their worst detractors that sometimes even the devil tells the truth. Other documents that have surfaced but have not been publicly verified or debunked include (at minimum) a document by Allawi claiming that Ayman al-Zawahiri attended the 1999 Popular Islamic Conference at the request of Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri and documents that Jordanian intelligence claims verifies their reporting on pre-war Iraqi support for Zarqawi, which is still the official position of the Jordanian government on the subject as can be seen from the May 2005 statements from nation's King Abdullah on the subject. I would be exceedingly interested to learn what position, if any, the United States has on these documents.

Ibn Sheikh Al-Libi

I see he's back in the news again, this time thanks to the declassification of two paragraphs from a DIA document at the behest of Senator Carl Levin. While here again Steve Hayes does a great job at debunking a lot of this (including the fact that , the document (which I can't find on Levin's website, somebody want to help me out on this one?) may well not say what Levin thinks it does. According to both the New York Times and the Washington Post summaries, the DIA assessment offers up the possibility that al-Libi may not known any more than he told interrogators as an alternative to the view that he was either lying or playing for time.

One interesting tidbit we get from the article, however, is this:

"It is possible he does not know any further details; it is more likely this individual is intentionally misleading the debriefers," the February 2002 report said. "Ibn al-Shaykh has been undergoing debriefs for several weeks and may be describing scenarios to the debriefers that he knows will retain their interest."

Except here's the thing: he did end up eventually telling his interrogators more than simply that Iraq was training al-Qaeda operatives, as Powell recounted at the UN in the terrorism portion of his presentation that, as Steve notes, everyone including Levin agreed upon in the SSIC report " was carefully vetted by both terrorism and regional analysts" and "none of the portrayals of the intelligence reporting included in Secretary Powell's speech differed in any significant way from earlier assessments published by the Central Intelligence Agency."

Here's the broader version of what al-Libi told his interrogators:

His information comes first-hand from his personal involvement at senior levels of Al Qaida. He says bin Laden and his top deputy in Afghanistan, deceased Al Qaida leader Muhammad Atif (ph), did not believe that Al Qaida labs in Afghanistan were capable enough to manufacture these chemical or biological agents. They needed to go somewhere else. They had to look outside of Afghanistan for help. Where did they go? Where did they look? They went to Iraq. The support that (inaudible) describes included Iraq offering chemical or biological weapons training for two Al Qaida associates beginning in December 2000. He says that a militant known as Abu Abdula Al-Iraqi (ph) had been sent to Iraq several times between 1997 and 2000 for help in acquiring poisons and gases. Abdula Al-Iraqi (ph) characterized the relationship he forged with Iraqi officials as successful.

Now I myself would be interested in knowing more about this, but unfortunately the portion of the SSIC report dealing with al-Libi on p. 325 and pp. 330-331 are all classified. If Levin is really concerned about getting to the bottom of all this rather than just scoring political points, maybe he should move to declassify everything on al-Libi rather than simply those portions of it that fit with his narrative.

Two other brief points.

First of all, contrary to what Juan Cole would have you believe, Ibn Sheikh al-Libi is not exactly small fry as far as the al-Qaeda leadership was concerned. At the time of his capture on January 5, 2002 (apparently fleeing from the site of the battle at Tora Bora, he was the highest-ranking al-Qaeda leader in US custody and would remain so until such time as Abu Zubaydah was apprehended at a Lashkar-e-Taiba safe house in Faisalabad. Moreover, again in contrast to Cole, if you actually read the SSIC report on what Abu Zubaydah and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed told interrogators on pages 324-325, you'll see quite a contrast between what was reported in the press and what both men actually said.

In addition, the idea that al-Libi only told interrogators what he wanted to hear because he was tortured is a bit of a stretch. According the Newsweek article, he was indeed sent to Egypt and almost certainly tortured there but unless that happened between his capture in January and when this DIA document was written in February, it wasn't the torture that prompted him to make the claims that he did. If I had to make a guess, I would say that his initial claims about Iraq/al-Qaeda but failure to talk any further were what prompted the torture, on the basis that if he was lying he'd admit it and if he was telling the truth he'd expand on it rather than be faced with an Egyptian interrogation session.

One further point that no one is really going to want to get into on this one is that if you want to turn the case of al-Libi into some kind of a morality tale as far as torture is concerned, it isn't going to get you very far since it was under those Egyptian interrogation sessions that al-Libi gave up detailed information that enabled the US to thwart a plot against our embassy in Yemen and helped to point us in the direction of Abu Zubaydah even as he was giving up detailed information on Iraqi ties to al-Qaeda. Similarly, the fact that even though al-Libi recanted his story in early 2004 US intelligence was still trying to determine the veracity of his statements as of August of that year (and as I understand it they still are) is unlikely to make many headlines because, here again, it suggests the issue is far more ambiguous and less clear-cut than many people desire it to be.

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Tracked: November 7, 2005 2:02 PM
Dawn Patrol from Mudville Gazette
Excerpt: Welcome to the Dawn Patrol, our daily roundup of information on the War on Terror and other topics - from the MilBlogs, other blogs, and the mainstream media. If you're a blogger, you can join the conversation. If you link...

22 Comments

Call me crazy, but is anyone out there actually confused about "the nature of the people we are fighting?"

Re: the 11/6/05 NYT report debunking al-Libi's interrogation:

In this morning's paper, I read the Times Wire Service report detailing how, in 2002, the Bush Administration ignored clear-cut signs from the DIA that the intelligence connecting Al Qaueda and Iraq was concocted.

Instead of thinking, "Here's an important piece of the puzzle, and it shows poor judgement or much worse in evaluating AQ/Iraq connections," my immediate reaction was, "A full force slam against Bush from the NYT via the Baltimore Sun? This story is probably a caricature. The reporter probably left out key information that would reveal a more complex picture. I'd better not rely on what's printed here."

The Stephen Hayes piece that you linked shows that, indeed, these newspapers have again placed the Story Line ahead of the story itself. It's a sad state of affairs that the journalistic profession has wished upon itself.

The CIA has decided to move against the Bush Admin in all phases of the war on terror and Iraq.

Why?

1. CIA depends on co-operation with various Arabic/Muslim intelligence forces that are openly hostile to the US (example: Syria) to provide work-product (intelligence passed on by these foreign and hostile services) to move upwards in career paths. Bush has put the kibosh on this upward mobility and hence earned the CIA's enmity. As a matter of policy and practicality the CIA is unable to use spies/agents of their own and must rely on foreign services.

2. As a result of this dependency, the CIA often puts the interests of foreign intelligence services ahead of their own country. See Michael Scheuer, etc.

3. The post-CIA career path is to get on the Saudi Dinar; or act as a fixer for dubious trade deals in forbidden technologies and weapons and materials. State does this too; see Joe Wilson, Sandy Burglar, etc. Bush put the kibosh on this as well.

ANYTHING the Bush Admin DOES will come under CIA-Press attack for these reasons. The Bush Admin knows this and is simply hunkering down. They can't beat the CIA. They seem to be waiting for another mass-casualty attack and planning to use the predictable failure by the CIA to anticipate the attack in the US to abolish the CIA and replace it with Pentagon led intelligence. Until that time the view in the Administration seems to not try and provoke fights with the CIA until they are ready to abolish it.

There is an alliance of convenience between CIA and the Liberal Press; one eerily similar to Saddam and bin Laden.

Jim, please take your meds.

That comment was beneath you, praktike.

I don't think we need to search for complicated answers to this issue.

The first problem is with the GOP in general. It quite simply sucks at getting its mesage across, and this has been a problem for as long as I can remember. Reagan was obviously the great exception, but otherwise, I've lost track of how often I've seen the deer-in-headlights look in a GOPer's face when asked to articulate and advocate a position.

I also get the impression that for many Republicans (including the President) that advocacy is a "girly" thing, and we let "actions speak louder than words". Well, if actions spoke louder than words, I don't think the GOP would having all the problems that it is dealing with right now.

It's kind of maddening;I see terrific arguments and reams of facts being marshalled by people from all walks of life in the blogosphere and elsewhere, but the political leadership is silent--and they are the ones whose job it is to be making the case!

This isn't just a Bush problem, it's a systemic flaw of the GOP.

It's bad enough that this hurts the Republicans.

Given that the Dems have largely abdicated their responsibility to safeguard American interests, it's doing positive harm to the country and its standing in the world.

I don't know what the answer is, but there's a growing part of me that's getting weary of Republican political incompetence and thinking that a few years in the wilderness might do them some good.

First of all, everyone calm down.

Secondly, in answer to praktike, yes there is an issue at hand about the nature of the people we're fighting that includes, amongst other things, the degree to which al-Qaeda is supported by either governments or elements of governments or whatever, the degree to which it is an organization vs. an ideology, and so on. Both of the above-listed issues, for instance, have major repercussions as how you set about dealing with the problem and informing the American public of these issues helps them to make informed decisions on the topic, which is the prerequisite of any electorate in a democracy.

praktike -- It is my belief that the CIA is protecting institutional and bureaucratic interests, and has entered into an alliance of convenience politically with Dems and the Media against Bush policy for it's own institutional interests.

I hardly see that as either a radical or far-fetched idea. Indeed the evidence we have so far suggests that this is indeed the case. Everyone knows that the career path in the Pentagon is to move up with various procurement programs (Osprey for example) even if they don't work; and eventually move to the Private Sector shepherding these programs.

It is a fantasy to think the CIA does not work the same way. How else were the "secret flights" and "secret prisons" leaked to the media? How else does Sy Hersh for example function? He's long been the favorite CIA conduit and means to fight their battles with the Pentagon over intelligence dollars and control. Why else has the failure to implement Data Mining ala Able Danger been so spectacular? Answer: it is not what the CIA does best, hence "not invented here" and would be naturally part of DIA rivals.

You can even see this dynamic at work during the CLINTON Admin struggles to get Al Qaeda and bin Laden; Richard Clarke that well known neo-con writes in his book that the CIA constantly obstructed efforts to use military force to kill bin Laden out of fear that it would jeopardize their contacts throughout the Middle East (hence risk their careers). Clarke and Scheuer fought constantly and if you read Scheuer you see the view consistently pushed that Israel's existence is the only real cause for terrorism aimed at the US. That the CIA would allow the publication of an anti-Bush book by one of it's own during the election is remarkable (and disturbing, Dems should remember that this technique can be turned against THEM in time).

I will recall that during the 1980's the consensus view of the CIA by most of the Press and Dems was an evil, out of control spy agency up to it's eyebrows in Iran-Contra, human rights violations, paying awful murderers and scum for information etc. (all of which was probably true) and fighting tooth and nail to protect Phillip Agee from any prosecution for outing REAL in-country CIA agents. That the Media and Left now praises the institution that only 20 years ago they loathed is telling.

Dushan -- The problem with the failure of articulation of the message is only in National Security post 9/11; the general GOP message of a culturally conservative set of policies domestically is pretty clear. GOP policies depend on sub-rosa understanding of the enemy being Jihadist Islam (and tolerance of same throughout the Ummah) without naming it (for fear of being demonized as "racist" etc). Coupled with the need of showing force to deter nations from playing house with Bin Laden on the 9/11 scale. That's a fairly simple message but one that if articulated would send the Media into overdrive for violating PC taboo -- speaking the literal truth. Not to mention that the CIA consistently leaks anti-Bush info to undermine his message constantly.

The CIA wants the Bush 1 policy of rather corrupt realpolitik, which means coddling the Saudis, Iranians, Pakistanis, various strongmen etc and distancing from Israel. Ironically the Jean Kirkpatrick theory of "our authoritarians" etc. held over from the Cold War. Hands off the ME and allowing the usual career path to resume. They see the Dems and the Media as the best way to accomplish this.

Personally, I am so enlightened that if I were to read about the bodies of news journalists being burned I would not give it a moments' thought. C'est la vie. Live by fire, die by fire. Most journalists are clearly on the other side. They have coalition blood on their hands. It will not be forgotten.

Bill Funt:

I don't like the media much either, but I don't want to see anyone killed for their political leanings. If you want to see journalists killed, please express those ideas somewhere else.

I'd like to thank Mr. Rockford for his insight. It sounds so credible, that I'll just assume that Jim Rockford is a psuedonym, and wish him great luck in what must feel like a very quixotic adventure.

No offense Praktike, but if JR's viewpoint sounded like the ravings of a mad conspiracy theorist, then I begin to believe that you have little experience working within a large beaurocracy.

Surprisingly enough, they don't always maintain an uncorrupted focus on their mission statement. Everybody has got his own little ricebowl, and sometimes the most absurd behavior is condoned in incredibly pious language which does little to hide the hypocritical motives beneath the surface.

I don't know the CIA. And given the nature of that organization, it's hardly surprising that there is very little public discussion of what goes on at Langley.

But I spent my career in the military, and the kind of infighting, myopia, and careerism that JR describes is eminently believable to me.

Dan, please do not project into what I write. The words are what they are. Just like what journalists write and say. Everything has consequences. Too many people want to believe they can hide behind some type of societal privilege.

Jim, your second comment is more comprehensible to me; I found the Hussein/Bin Laden analogy in the first one both inapt and offensive.

I still think you're wrong however, as I believe the major difference between some members of the Bush administration and some members of the CIA is clearly one of policy. Many intelligence analysts in the CIA (and, I would submit, a good chunk of Al Qaeda experts outside of it) think the Iraq war has been harmful to their work and have leaked and/or spoken out accordingly. I don't think conspiracy theories or institutional explanations are necessary.

Last week, when the Chairman of the Democratic Party said this:

The 9/11 Commission, chaired by a Republican, I might add, said there was no connection between terrorism and Saddam Hussein.

was a good opportunity to remind people that this statement was demonstrably wrong, that Saddam had connections with terrorists, that Saddam had connections with al Qaeda and that there is evidence, perhaps inconclusive, that Saddam provided support for 9/11.

"Ignoring the media"

Republicans have a fairly "corporate culture".

One can run their business to the pleasure of various wall street analysts demands that the quarterly balance sheet and income statement always turn out "near expectations".

Alternatively, one can run the business with long term strategic objectives at the fore front, knowing full well that Wall Street analysts will claim you are running the corporation into the ground when quarterly results don't meet expectations.

The Dividend for Bush's Middle East policies won't begin to pay out until well after he is no longer president. It will pay out while a substantial number of Senators are still looking for re-election.

Many of the Bush government apologencia held to one or another of the shapeshifting litany of deceptive, hyped, "sexed-up", manipulated, or otherwise "dodgey" justifications pimped by the WHIG/OSP/OSI cabals prior to the war, - all of which have subsequently been thoroughly debunked and proven PATENTLY FALSE.

Mr. Darling in particular communicated that the Iraq/al Quaida link was the primary impetus for his personal support of the Bush governments bloody, costly, noendinsight, wayward misadventure and war of choice in Iraq.

As difficult as it may be, "wise men engaged in the great and arduous struggle for liberty", - must admit that the Bush government betrayed and deceived America to justify the plunder and profiteering, - I mean war and occupation in Iraq; accept that the Bush government has absolutely zero credibility; recognize that the horroshow in Iraq is the greatest foriegn policy disaster in America's history that is hurting not helping America, and helping not hurting our real Saudi and Iranain backed jihadist enemies; that there are simply no good options for America in Iraq now; that the American face and footpint in Iraq must be significantly reduced for the best interests of Americans and Iraqis; and finally that the neo-facsists in the Bush government are not above and beyond the law, but are in fact accountable and culpable for betraying the public trust, dishonoring America's core principles, perverting American law, and profiteering wantonly in, and from the horrorshow in Iraq and the socalled waronterror.

"The truth will set you free." Bush government apologists might want to start looking into it.

Foresta, to the contrary, it has not been "proven" that any intelligence was manipulated or "pimped" or "sexed up".

Instead, we have had a litany of administration critics who - like yourself - make such allegations without any substantiation. Such never deal with the reality of the intelligence that was in hand before Spring of 2003. And such are left with repeating such unfounded allegations over and over regardless of reality and pimping silly stunts on the Senate floor.

The Bush government itself has been forced to recant and rescind every claim SPQR.

You might want to look beyond NewsMax and the gospel according to Fox fictions, myths, and parables and examine the various official Bush government public reversals and recantations for a factbasedreality peek at the debunking and proof that all the pre-war information warfare campaigns, - I mean war pimping, - I mean mass marketing to SELL the bloody, costly, noendinsight, FALING misadventure in Iraq have been thoroughly debunked and proven FALSE.

What remains a question for the Bush government apologencia, (but not for anyone who actually reads) is if these debunked and proven false pre-war deceptions were the product of an incompetent or a criminal leadership.

The answer is obvious regardless of how much sand the GOP and the Bush government throw in the face of investigations and the judicial system.

Truth is the engine of the judicial system. Cloaking or obstructing the access to the truth is a grievous abuse and breach of the public trust, and the neo-fascists in the Bush government are accountable and culpable for betraying the American people, and singularly responsible for the greatest foreign policy disaster in American history.

Tony,

I'd like to dissabuse you of the notion that your admittedly impressive vocabulary make your posts interesting or persuasive.

There is nothing there - merely empty accusations with little to back them up.

One example?

T: "I mean war pimping, - I mean mass marketing to SELL the bloody, costly, noendinsight, FALING misadventure in Iraq"

Horeshite.

I'm quite certain you've never been to Iraq, and have less ability to objectively measure progress there than most of us.

But... that statement was typical of your posts, which appear to be nothing more than long declarative diatribes. If that makes you feel good - blows off some steam - well, enjoy!

But if you are looking for a debate, you should pick ONE of your many accusations and develop it into a question, challenge, or argument.

For example: "You folks keep writing about progress, but I think it's obvious that the Iraqi occupation is an unmitigated failure. No?"

Otherwise, I don't think anybody here is going to jump into your mosh pit of unreason.

Tony, your command of logic does not seem to have been improved since we last saw you. That the intelligence was in error does not mean that it was misrepresented, exaggerated, "sexed up" or any other variation you find in your thesaurus. When are you going to learn that it doesn't substitute for your utter lack of an argument?

Your allegations of obstruction of justice are not merely irrelevant but again unsubstantiated.

And the claim that the Iraq War is the single greatest foreign policy disaster in history does nothing but demonstrate either your ignorance of history or your near-fatal disease of exaggeration.

Iraq is about to embark on the third series of successful national elections. I think that the word "disaster" does not mean what you think it means.

The specific issue I originally pointed out was the Bush governments' FALSE and DECEPTIVE claims of Iraqi/al Quaida links which the honorable Dan Darling communicated as the his primary impetus for supporting the war in Iraq. We can argue that issue if you dare, though from my perspective debating with theright is fruitless and impossible.

The common tactic usually employed by the Bush government apologencia (preventing an honest debate) involves hurling a relentless spew of subtantless slime on the challenging position and challenger, silencing, or suppressing the challenge by banning the challenger, or dismissing the challenge by accusing the challenger of the catagorically false and scurrilous charge of anti-Americanism.

None of us, and certainly not me, were ever or would ever be anti-American. Anti Bush government admittedly, but never anti-American.

Theleft, and I personally attempted continuously over the last few years to enter into an honest debate on every single one of the deceptive and false claims the Bush government manipulated to terrorize the American people, exploit the horrors and the dead of 9/11, and SELL the plunder and profiteering, - I mean war and occupation in Iraq.

All the information re-revealing itself presently: WHIG/OSP/OSI cabals contaminating the intelligence product and forcing the Bush governments war of choice down America's throat - the Bush governments re-engineering of our laws and treaties, and perverting of America's abiding principles to suit the supremist ambitions and designs of the neo-fascist WHIG/OSP/OSI cabals without our consent and outside the law - the Bush governments grotesque failure to plan or prepare for the nationbuilding enterprize in Iraq, - the woefull lack of accounting, - the wanton profiteering and book cooking ongoing in Iraq - the revenge outing of Valerie Plame and Brewster Jennings Associates - and on and on.

I challenge any one on theright to debate any of these claims honestly sans the slime, (which you all know are accurate and based on well documented evidence) I will provide volumes of historical support proving my point.

The sad grim fact all the Bush government apologencia must eventually recognize and admit is that the warmongers and profiteers in the Bush government betrayed all Americans.

What ever feeble excuse of progress any Bush government apologist can offer for Iraq today, and you would be hard challenged to provide any, belies the flowery hollow promises and originals partisan prognostications the Bush government pimped, I mean sold the American people to justify the war.

Iran is, and will be the real victor in Iraq. None of the Bush governments original visionary soothsaying is anywhere close to the actual factbasedreality of events in the field today in Iraq.

No has Iraq done anything to improve our ability to thwart the real jihadist enemies of America. I won't get into to the Saudi funding and nurturing of jihadist mass murder gangs and wahabi imams machinations here for lack of time and space.

The Bush government has yet to articulate what exactly will define victory in Iraq, or to offer an honest accounting of the costs, the timeframes, or the ulitmate of objectives of the wayward misadventure in Iraq, which by all the factbasedrealities, hard math, and the obvious events in the field - is a catastrophic failure.

Tony Foresta -

We banned you; because of a technical issue you've come back and posted here again.

Please note that we didn't ban you because you disagree with us,we banned you because you seemed then to be incapable of entering into dialog with the rest of the folks here.

This is still true, and I'm now going to ban you again.

A.L.

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