Among many other wonderful things about this story, is that so many downloaded the video from MEMRI. I like the idea of MEMRI getting so many new visitors, especially Muslim.

I just read the so-called "admiring review" of Sultan over Daily Kos. Are we reading the same post over there??

At best, it can be described as having a "grudging admiration" for her that tries to paint America and radical Islam as moral equivalents, and then flatly criticizes Sultan for not giving "both sides" of the story.

Read it for yourself. I think that you will find that it is fair to call many Kos users America haters.

It's totally fair to call most Kos users America haters. That's what they are.

Nevertheless, I stand by my depiction of the review with respect to Ms. Sultan. The writer thinks a lot of her points and praises her, but wishes she spouted more of the America-hating party line. The second fact does not change the first.

This woman's words brought tears to my eyes. She said things that I've vaguely felt but was unable to verbalize.

The words are so much more powerful coming from a muslim woman that my verbalizations could never had had the same effect.

Ms. Sultan, I bow to your wisdom!

My favorite line: "Brother, you can believe in stones, as long as you don't throw them at me."

that would be how the West percives this--
here is another perspective:

The other guest on the program, identified as an Egyptian professor of religious studies, Dr. Ibrahim al-Khouli, asked, "Are you a heretic?" He then said there was no point in rebuking or debating her, because she had blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet Muhammad and the Koran. Dr. Sultan said she took those words as a formal fatwa, a religious condemnation. Since then, she said, she has received numerous death threats on her answering machine and by e-mail.

--Right, playing the Rushdie card for well-meaning but naive Westerners by calling statements made during a TV debate a "formal fatwa" because the immediate association is "death sentence". Fatwas are legal rulings in Islamic jurisprudence and are issued as a response to a specific legal question.
A quick overview of what is and is not a fatwa can be found here-- Every Muslim may be entitled to declare an opinion on whatever he or she wishes. But a fatwa is not a point of view; it is a legal opinion. A fatwa is not personal advice given in response to a personal problem and it is not simply an answer to a question. A fatwa is a non-binding legal opinion issued in response to a legal problem. For instance, if one asks, "How many times a day do Muslims pray?" The answer to this is not a fatwa. If one asks: "Do you think it is a good idea to marry someone older than myself?" The response to this is personal advice but not a fatwa. However, if one inquires about a problem that is the proper subject of a legal inquiry, then one is asking for a fatwa. For example, if one asks, My father is opposed to my marrying this man, but legally, could I still marry him anyway?" This question solicits a fatwa. A fatwa assumes a conflict of evidence and a need to weigh and evaluate the evidence. In the language of fiqh, a fatwa is issued in response to a problematic matter (amr mushkil).
The point is well-illustrated by the following incident: A man asked al-lmam Malik about a matter. Imam Malik responded by saying, "I don't know." The man retorted, "But this is a simple and easy matter." Irritated Imam Malik said: "Nothing is easy in knowledge and fatwa. Fatwas are not religious condemnations, they are formal legal opinions. Dismissing someone in a TV debate by calling them a blasphemer does not mean you have issued a fatwa calling for their death. It is extremely important that Western readers understand this distinction, as it is obviously being glossed over in the media.

two points: Dr. Al-Kouli did not issue a fatwa calling for Sultan's death as she claims, and his non-response was not that she had wowwed him with her scintillating truths, but that that she was a heretic, and there was no point in wasting energy on her. He was impervious to her "smackdowns".

Hi,

I admirer a lot Wafa Sultan - She is a Lady!
I need a contact for her, an e-mail...
Did she have any website?

Thanks

Caroline K.

matoko_aukousmatikoi #6:

Thanks for bringing up these points on Islamic jusisprudence to this audience. Your central point, that Dr al-Khouli did not and could not have issued a fatwa on the strength of the al-Jazeera interview, seems solid (to this infidel). However, the following points would still appear to hold:

• Fatwas are legal rulings, yes, but there seems to be considerable ambiguity in the ummah (or ummahs, perhaps) as to who may issue--or rescind--a fatwa. Are Dr al-Khouli's credentials in Islamic jurisprudence sufficient for him to credibly be a source of a fatwa? If they are, should Dr Sultan be comforted that the interview, itself, isn't a fatwa? If they aren't, should Dr Sultan be assured that no legal scholar with the right credentials has taken the (obvious) step and issued such a decree?

• To much of the ummah, Dr Sultan would be an apostate rather than merely a blasphemer or infidel or misguided Muslim. In the transcript, Dr al-Khouli seems to view her as such, even if he doesn't apply the word. And to some in the Islamic community, the Quranic injunction that 'the penalty for apostasy is death' could well apply. Whether or not Dr Sultan is correct in talking about a fatwa, the death threats she has received seem real, and her fear of violent retaliation for speaking out seems very well founded.

"You met Theo an Gogh's fate at the hands of a misguided Islamist on the basis of faulty legal reasoning" would be rather cold comfort.

I watched the video clip yesterday that was forwarded to me from my sister who got it from her rabbi. I viewed speechless with tears in my eyes. Dr, Sultan says so eloquently what I have felt but did not know how to express. Today I forwarded a copy of an article that appeared in the Minneapolis morning paper about Dr. Sultan to my sister in Chicago. She said she went out and voted today as a result of what she read. Wafa Sultan is a hero.

Word, Wafa, word.

Dr. Wafa (Hah I doubt even that).

Anyone with a 3rd grade history lesson would have told you she was completely wrong. Proto-Zionist’s in Palestine and Europe have blown up anyone or anything that challenged the establishment of a Zionist safe haven. The Bask have had a long war with Spain (which is still alive and well), the Tamil tigers have had more suicide bombings than all other nations combined including the ones in occupied Palestine. The illegal occupation of Iraq and Vietnam by the United Hates of America are nothing compared to the massacres of Pawnee, Lakota, and 300 other Native American nations and cultures over a time span of 400 years. Oh and by the way I’ll stay away from the enslavement, rape, and killing of over one hundred million Africans just so you don’t say I am playing the race card. And let us not forget the most recent tragedy of all the war casualties of WWI and WWII. You racist ethnocentric xenophobes make me sick. Anyone who wants to preserve their way of life or practice their beliefs or culture is not a threat to you it is you who are a threat to them. The Anglo-Yiddish a.k.a. Ashkenazi and Anglo-Saxon war machines are well know for their long running campaigns and treaty breakings.

Always refreshing to hear the voice of Reason (#11).

I’ll stay away from the enslavement, rape, and killing of over one hundred million Africans just so you don’t say I am playing the race card.

Any other points you'll not be making? (Psst, just between you and me, my mother wears Army boots--please don't mention that, either!)

FEMINISM = ZIONISM = COMMUNISM = SATANISM .

MEMRI is the abbreviation for Middle East Media Research Institute, a pro-Israel organization with headquarters in Washington DC and its Media Centre in Israel - "...
a non-profit in Washington DC that specializes in translating and circulating mainly Arab-language materials, selected to display the Arab world in a poor light, to the advantage of Israel."

FULL ENGLISH TRANSCRIPT TRANSLATION AL- JAZEERA here : Ehttp://aqoul.com/images/wafa_sultan.pdf

The MEMRI debate was very much truncated, and the full debate had the scholar for the most part patronizing her, and not taking her seriously.

Her arguments were just too childesh to take seriously, and the audiacity of her facile questioning for the most part seemed like trolling rather than engaging in debate.

The showing for the scholar was hardly as bad as MEMRI makes it look...

This may enlighten you about their organisation .......
Fake Saddam Interview Put Out By MEMRI : SF Bay Area Indymedia

"A knowledgeable US government official has informed "Iraq News" that the 'remarkable' interview with Saddam Hussein, published by MEMRI TV, is almost certainly a hoax." Read More:

Did you not wonder if it was a debate, why was Wafa Sultan doing all the gibber-gabbering? Where are the responses from the two (2) Muslim
participants in the debate? Why were they not given the opportunity to have the same air-time to respond to this woman? The way the video clip
was going on-and-off so many times, isn't it obvious to you that the debate was one-sided and had been edited! Some debate!!!

Wafa's statements are a flagrant distortion of the truth. When it comes to terrorism Wafa is totally wrong in sugarcoating Jewish history. She
fudges her claims here because Israeli authors Avi Shlaim, Tom Segev, Ilan Pappé and Benny Morris have written comprehensive and
well-researched books about Israel's history and the major role terrorism had in it

MEMRI has published translated and heavily edited portions of the exchange. Since the full translation was made in an attempt to reduce any misinformation or ignorant postulation, and hope that the full transcript speaks accurately for itself

MISLEADING M.E.M.R.I. : obviously, we don't know why the people @ m.e.m.r.i. chose to translate the term mulhidah (the term ibrahim al-khouly used to ask wafa sultan if she is one) as "heretic" and not "atheist".
the term for "apostate" (the punishment for which could be death) is murtadd/murtaddah. and it is highly unlikely that ibrahim al-khouly, being a professor @ al-azhar, mistakenly used the word mulhidah when ACTUALLY he wanted to say murtaddah.

as for al-khouly's answer - the m.e.m.r.i translation was almost right with the phrase "there is no point in rebuking you", but the term 'atb means "rebuke" in the sense of "censure, blame, reproof, reprimand" and here it is clear that his argument is: if you're an atheist, then i cannot say anything if you curse islam, the prophet, the qur'an. he implies that atheists are outside islam and islam has no say over them. it'd be different if wafa sultan had self-identified as a believing muslim - in that case, insulting the religion, the prophet, the qur'an would be a different matter and he (ibrahim al-khouly) would have the right to censure/reprimand/rebuke her.
in short, his answer is almost the EXACT OPPOSITE of a "death fatwa".

1. Two questions: Is it fair for MEMRI to disseminate such a biased perspective? And will all the websites i saw propagating the false-death-fatwa meme publish retractions? Or is it just ok for that false meme to pass into urban myth.

2. The most interesting thing i read that Al-Khouly said was, "so, in order to become a progressive like you, muslims must become secular, must renounce our faith..." How many Christians and Jews here are prepared to renounce their faith to become progressives? That is not a rhetorical question. Transhumanism is soon going to force exactly that kind of choice for western religionists.

Wafa Sultan’s Lies already Refuted :
http://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/wafa_sultan.htm

I see the "Zionism = Communism = Satanism" moonbats are out in force today...

Al-Kgouly was clearly NOT abdicating his authority over Wafa Sultan to those who watched the video. At best, we see a dismissal along the lines of "there's no point wasting my breath on you" - which seems to be what his body language is saying. At worst, it is a "tagging" that carries a darker meaning. Wafa Sultan has certainly received death threats since, some very organized, and in keeping with a long-standing Islamic practice among several sects of murdering apostates.

Of course, seeing the strenuous suck and jive for al-Khouly coming from Mr. "FEMINISM = ZIONISM = COMMUNISM = SATANISM" tells you all you need to know.

As for "michelle's" link, all it shows it Islam's utter incomprehension of and inability to deal with a modern worldf that has secular humanists in it. The lunatic character of much of this "refutation" is in fact likely to vindicate Wafa Sultan's points re: Islam as a backward, hate-filled religion rather than undermining them. Not exactly a sterling example of advocacy, on their part or on hers.

dr wafa sultan is brave...couragious...bright...and most of all wise...when king solomon was give a chance to choose what ever he wanted from God he chose...wisdom...the definition of wisdom:knowing how to use knowledge with perfection for the good of all. dr wafa had been granted a great gift..as a man, i have seen many people blow it out their mouth...lacking wisdom and integrity...i was dumbfounded by this woman , a secular humanists to boot, to bring the message of sanity to an insane world...i thought i would never witness such freshness of thought and honesty as this woman has deliverd...im humbled ...a born again individual ...dean l ritter

What id Dr. Wafa email address? I want to email her.

Help !

Amal

you know how funny it is to read people's comment about someone they don't know. Me myself, i never heard of Wafa Sultan. I just watched her interview that she apparently happened a while ago. I laughed. because she is not making any sense. she definitely didn't make any sense in anything she said. She was speaking from her point of view. she was speaking from her perspective of life. She didn't state any facts. she took what she wanted people to hear and left the other important parts. Even though, i don't memorize the whole quran, but i did read it. I am proud of being muslim. I know islam is not what she is describing it. I know she can't say i don't believe in islam, then says i am a muslims. it doesn't add up. The scholar asked her honestly what she is, she couldn't answer. We have forgotten that she is also a psychologist. they are very good speakers. they know how to manipulate the words to ring well in the audience ears. You all loved her cause you found someone who hates islam. how can i trust someone who lost faith in Allah (GOD) cause of a bad experience? that means she is a very shaky person. She looked at things at one side and forgot to look at the other side of the story. If we want to be judges, then we should get all the facts straight.. not judging by cover. Seriously, that is so much ignorant. the way we just believe someone who is just angry cause her unsuccessful past. the woman doesn't even know what religion is. i will just ask Allah to guide her and enlighten her. and all of us..

Wow It could never have been said better. Thank you.
Linda Gillard

Dr. Sultan:

I visited the middle east to many times and I don't know what you talking about. It is probably the family that raised you treated you like an animal. Women in the arab and muslim world is treated with respect and dignity, unlike elese were.

I think you have reached your goal of being famous by attaking islam.

I think you are a bad examble of a foremer muslem because you are the one who is attcking people not muslims.

The problem is your family not your society, you should go back and study your childhood.

I am sure there is problems in the muslim world becuase we mix between culture and religion.

I think you should go back to schoold and study history, becasue you don't know what you talking about.

Thanks

Diaa Texas

Hi Wafa,
I watched your latest battle with Al-Jazeera. You go girl, but keep your cool with these fanatics and be careful!
fondly
E.L.

[Drive-by. Content deleted. Thread closed. Move along, nothing to see here. --NM]