...which informs me that it appears that a small - 5KT - nuke has just exploded on a container ship in San Pedro harbor...\r\n\r\n...Matthew McKenzie, a staff scientist with the nuclear program at the Natural Resource Defense Council, a nonprofit environmental organization, conducted two simulations. One used a 2-kiloton bomb, a crude version of which could be made by terrorists with technical savvy. The other used a 10-kiloton blast, which would require the use of a technologically advanced bomb, McKenzie said.\r\n\r\n120 RVs are from one Trident sub; while you are correct that the entire Middle East wouldn\'t be covered in fused glass, I don\'t think \'plain of glass\' is an outrageous metaphor to describe the Middle East after being hit with 120 H-bombs.\r\n\r\nCan I encourage you to respond to my point, rather than having each of us engage in semi-amateur analysis of weapons effects? \r\n\r\nTo restate, my point is that we are at some measurable risk of such an event, and that the political reaction to it would not be likely to be measured and thoughtful.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-02-17 16:28:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(357,1,3062,'209.63.198.155','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Tom Roberts,\r\n\r\n Americans are wired differently and they force the American government to act differently as a result. And this process has been going on for more than 150 years.\r\n\r\n Please see the book review of \"Special Provinence\" at this link and pay close attention to the American \"Wilsonian tradition.\"\r\n\r\nhttp://www.powells.com/review/2002_04_18.html\r\n\r\n','2003-02-17 18:01:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(358,1,3065,'209.63.198.155','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','The most likely source for a terrorist nuke is from Pakistan. \r\n\r\nFYEO (now Strategypage.com) reported that the majority of Pakistani nukes were in the range of 15 KT.','2003-02-17 18:09:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(359,1,3065,'68.35.34.144','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','A.L.:\r\nMy point is not that you are not making sense, except on the technical issue of the extent of ME damage, but rather that the newspaper was creating an unconstrained worse case impression of urban disaster of biblical proportions. Your estimate of US damage to the ME dovetails with the newspaper\'s suggestive impression of damage to the portside areas of LA with an equally suggestive concept that a ME country supporting such an attack on LA would be attacked with a response of unrealistic extent. Incidently, my use of the FAS and associated site materials is due to my not being able to use the classified tables of nuclear weapons effects I was previously able to access in the US Army. But the principles are the same, despite the fact that in the Army we never seriously considered retinal damage radii as a figure of merit in collateral damage estimates.\r\n\r\nSo where we depart in our conclusions stems not only from the technical issues concerning US SLBM capabilities I outlined above, but also in the purposes of these weapons inventories. You seem to think that they have a preponderantly retributive purpose, and with the media obsession with MADD over the last two decades this might be a legitimate point of view. My opinion is that such an analysis fails, not only in the specifics of what a US retribution might actually achieve on a target list such as Iraq would pose, but also concerning the motives of the US in general concerning nuclear weapons use. Doctrinally, nuclear weapons are to be used when all other forms of conventional munitions would pose either unacceptable military costs or risks. Their use in WW II is the archtype, when two cities were bombed in order to prevent the need for 6-7 figure casualty lists on both sides in a conventional assault on the Home Islands. Notably, the US-UK effort to develop nuclear weapons did not envision city busting German cities, except as a second strike option if the German did so first. Events made that course of possibilities irrelevant. \r\n\r\nThis doctrinal barrier, as well as the other reasons to maintain the US stockpile of non obsolete warheads in existence, leads me to discount Rumsfeld\'s addressing this subject as being diplomatic bluffery. Sure we might use them if Saddam uses WMDs. But the last thing we would want is the bill to clean up the whole central area of Iraq after all was said and done.','2003-02-17 18:33:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(360,1,3065,'68.35.34.144','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','A.L.: One last logical point which you bring up, I was not addressing your 5kt weapon in analysis of this specific newspaper article. I was addressing the newspaper\'s published scenario as it was stated, without giving it the benefit of your qualification.','2003-02-17 18:39:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(361,1,3021,'80.13.4.252','xavier, a french student','iraqbushfrance@hotmail.com','http://www.stopesso.com/funstuff/nose.html','look at this link. it\'s funny','2003-02-17 19:13:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(362,1,3046,'199.46.200.230','Joe McNally','jpm@shortstrangetrip.org','http://shortstrangetrip.org','I think you\'ve hit the nail on the head, to take it one step further, only until we\'ve brought about regime change can we begin to deal with al Qaeda and the Palestine/Israeli conflicts. Iraq is in the unfortunate position of being the low-hanging fruit of the axis of evil(seen enemy)/war on terror(unseen enemy). We need to get them out of the way in order to reallocate the resources towards other targets.','2003-02-17 19:45:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(363,1,3067,'68.35.34.144','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','A.L.- some good comments, particularly the few up through \"Wild hyperbole...\". But some reservations:\r\n\r\na. \"We\'re a small minority of the people on the planet. We need to win converts faster than we make enemies, or we\'ll eventually be faced with the decision to lose or to commit genocide.\" \r\nThis isn\'t a very practical set of future alternatives unless you want to pose yourself as the modern liberal variation to the Revelation of John. Realistically, the world has always been substantively lead by very small minorities of its population, starting with such groups as the Roman Senate and Imperial administration and continuing through the British Parliament of Victoria\'s time. \r\n\r\nb. \"I wonder, I really do, if the conservative Christian leadership who is in large part in control of the centers of power under GWB really have the ability to be flexible and inclusive.\" \r\nYou might consider how GWB and party has transformed itself from a critic of Clintonian intervention into a Wilsonian embrace of \"Safe for Iraqi Democracy\" in the last SOTU. I could note some other alterations in economic policy also, but in either of these I\'d note that GWB is apparently being situationally expedient, rather than inflexible and exclusive.','2003-02-17 20:26:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(364,1,3071,'68.35.34.144','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','As I noted elsewhere, CBW suits and condoms are only partially effective at what they are designed to prevent and this varies in any specific context. They are, however, effective at convincing the other party that you are serious.','2003-02-17 20:30:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(365,1,3071,'64.229.236.93','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Times change, and technologies change. Human Nature doesn\'t change. The Truman Committee was grappling with this a long time ago... and it\'s still with us. The fact that this places kids\' lives in danger didn\'t matter much to the malefactors then, nor does it now.','2003-02-17 21:16:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(366,1,3071,'68.35.34.144','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','Apparently Truman got wind of the MANHATTAN Project\'s expenditures and was about to blow the lid off of that program\'s unrestrained use of the the taxpayers\' dollars until Gen. Groves told \"don\'t go there...\"','2003-02-17 22:05:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(367,1,3062,'68.35.34.144','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','Trent: That review parallels my own comments that I posted months ago at Bros Judd site. I\'d characterize French foreign policy as exclusively Hamiltonian, which would make Jefferson as a Francophile spin in his grave. But Napolean screwed the French Republican extension bit, giving the French liberte\', egalite\', et fraternite\' but servile clienthood to the rest of l\'Empire Francaise. \r\n\r\nBut you are right about the US being uniquely capable of Wilsonian traditions, although Blair\'s last speech had distinctly Wilsonian overtones. Note his topical links between social reform internationally and domestically. So maybe there is hope for the Old Country. but France appears hopelessly in love with raison d\'etat at this point.','2003-02-17 22:41:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(368,1,3069,'68.35.34.144','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','In re: the Turkish diddling article at Yahoo. \r\nBest I can figure is Gul is putting it to GWB to make up for GHWB\'s diddling with Turkey after 1991. Another harvest reaped for not getting the job done in 1991.','2003-02-17 23:07:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(369,1,3062,'208.187.40.85','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Tom R,\r\n\r\n Bear in mind that the British extermination of the slave trade was a result of their protestant dissenter religious churches anti-slavery campaign. \r\n\r\n It is a direct counter part to the American Wilsonian tradition that has its roots in the American missionary movement.','2003-02-18 00:23:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(370,1,3067,'208.187.40.85','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','A.L.\r\n\r\n You still are avoiding my central issue. We are facing evil in France. Their motives are flat evil. Their policies are evil and we are the target of those policies. You just don\'t want to recognize the concept because it implies our making a defining value judgement of another culture and people, then acting upon it.\r\n\r\nThey want to hurt us because they can and because they want too. \r\n\r\nThis is from the comments section over on Chicagoboyz at this link:\r\n\r\nhttp://chicagoboyz.blogspot.com/2003_02_01_chicagoboyz_archive.html#89055831\r\n\r\n\"In today\'s De Standaard, a Flemish newspaper which is not unsympathetic to the government of Michel and Verhofstadt (yes, in that order of importance), the unofficial foreign policy guru of Belgium Rik Coolsaet, a professor at the University of Ghent, brags about the genius of the Franco-Belgian policy. It is primarily aimed at derailing NATO, which he describes as toolbox for American imperialism on the European dime. The second objective (and Coolsaet is very straightforward about it) is to thwart American influence by humiliating it in front of the Arabs (who have a very keen sense of honor and prestige, and who can be trusted to attack America relentlessly once it is humiliated). This ignorant fool who passes for a foreign policy scholar is actually proud of the acts of sabotage that his friends in government committed. But he offers no vision for a post-US world, eccept empty phrases about a multilateral order that will make everybody miraculously happy. \r\n\r\nThat\'s the point where France and Belgium have arrived : pure nihilism. And it\'s no wonder that a man without convictions like Schroeder is fond of the company of such nihilists.\"\r\n\r\nAnother name for \"pure nihilism\" is evil. \r\n\r\nThis is why the French Belgians and Arabs get along so well now a days. They all have that gaping hole in their souls and they all hate America because we exist and remind them of their pain.\r\n \r\n','2003-02-18 00:43:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(371,1,3067,'4.46.70.60','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Trent, I\'m not avoiding your point, I\'m saying that you\'re flat wrong.\r\n\r\nOpposing US interests, even when they are legitimate != evil.\r\n\r\nBelieving in a different set of international arrangements (that advantage them, rather than those that advantage us) != nihilism.\r\n\r\nLook, I\'m a believer in American exceptionalism. \r\n\r\nI think that France is shortsighted and flat wrong both in their worldviews and behavior in a significant number of ways. I\'m happy to oppose them, leverage, them boycoitt them ... to use all the tools of dipolomacy and power to isolate them and drive them to change their minds.\r\n\r\nBut to liken French behavior here to true evil - Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein - isn\'t remotely justified by the facts that you\'ve presented.\r\n\r\nAnd to freely call those who don\'t stand with our interests \'evil\' both devalues the real moral weight of evil, and forces us into a style of oppositional politics where one may or may not be justified.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-02-18 01:16:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(372,1,3067,'4.46.70.60','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Tom - thanks! To your comments, I think that you raise a really significant issue in a); in the past the world was relatively \'loosely\' connected, in which large populations lived in ignorance of each other. This meant that small populations could command a lot of leverage (because they were leveraging against a subset of the world population). Today, the world is \'tightly\' connected, and every action plays out in front of the entire world.\r\n\r\nMy point was quickly stated; what I meant to say was that we must gather allies and adherents as we sell our worldview. You solve pest problems both by killing pests and stopping them from growing.\r\n\r\nWe stop them from growing by offering alternatives that people consciously choose.\r\n\r\nAs to b) I\'m genuinely interested in how the Administration will play this out. GWB has shown both admirible inclusiveness and has senior advisors who haven\'t.\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n\r\n\r\n ','2003-02-18 01:28:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(373,1,3071,'165.247.107.44','Hale Adams','ahadams1@ix.netcom.com','','That certain parts of the Army\'s brass are \"brain dead\" is no surprise to me. I was a lieutenant in Army Air Defense Artillery from \'85 to \'88 at Fort Bliss, Texas. Mindful of the prohibition on starching or dry-cleaning BDUs, I (as a very new second looie) washed, dried and ironed my BDUs per the instructions on the clothing tags. I caught no end of dirty looks and sharp words from my instructors at the ADA School there at Bliss, upbraiding me for my \"unprofessional\" appearance. After a while, I gave up, and joined in the dance to the dry-cleaners. I looked \"better\", but definitely non-regulation in my nice, starched, night-vision-beacon BDUs.\r\n\r\nBah.\r\n\r\nI\'m proud I served. I\'m also glad it\'s over and done with.\r\n\r\nHale Adams,\r\nex-1LT, AD, USAR\r\n','2003-02-18 01:31:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(374,1,3071,'209.210.89.182','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Warren Ball e-mailed again and mentioned 60 Minutes had droned on upon the threat of \"Dusty\" nerve agents. \r\n\r\n\"Dusty\" CBW weapons are a spin off from Soviet biowar research. The non-electrostatic clingy dust used to deliver the \'Daschle grade\' anthrax can also be impregnated with other agents like small pox or nerve gas.\r\n\r\nOur carbon impregnated CBW suits and breath masks are meant to breath, unlike the Soviet rubber CBW suits. \r\n\r\nThey are also meant to filter out more clumpy sized particles than the 5-10 micron dust the Soviets developed. \r\n\r\nWhat we are seeing here is a straight forward cross functional application of a technology we did not develope, therefore we have no ability to counter, because we abandoned offensive chemical and biological warfare programs. \r\n\r\nI fear one of the logical results of this war on terrorism will be the resumption of offensive CBW research and weapon programs by America simply as a way of avoiding technological surprise.','2003-02-18 02:04:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(375,1,3067,'68.35.34.144','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','A.L.: WRT b. and \"the rest of them\", there\'s only so much genius to go around and half of them are out of power, so that leaves only about 10 fellows in any one administration to really shine. E. g. Rubin last time, Rumsfeld & Powell this time. The Ashcrofts just are the filler in the rest of the Cabinet.','2003-02-18 02:36:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(376,1,3067,'68.35.34.144','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','Trent: You need to get the Belgian bit out of obscure comment sections and onto the top level. That\'s some heavy stuff if you can cite supporting sites.','2003-02-18 02:37:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(377,1,3067,'12.207.130.197','Sandy P.','karl.pedersen@attbi.com','','Tom, Lex Green found the article, but he doesn\'t understand Flemish. Bjorn Staerk suggested something, but I don\'t know if Lex tried it.','2003-02-18 02:48:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(378,1,3072,'68.35.34.144','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','Lord preserve us from Haloscan comment hosts, and here some comments that ought to go at Random Thoughts.\r\na. Carter got Kelly\'s visit to Pyongyang backwards, saying that Kelly didn\'t know what he was getting into. Kelly knew perfectly well what NK was doing, and called the NK bluff when they asked when the fuel oil was getting shipped. If that was the \"ritual denunciation\", then it was pretty trite and calls the rest of his analysis into question for no good reason.\r\nb. Carter might have a point about nukes being the most dangerous WMD potentially, but he\'s falling into a single path analysis trap. Just because he\'d go the nuclear route if he was the Great Leader of Lower Slobistan does not mean that the US or anybody else should adopt a singular solution to preventing Lower Slobistan from blackmailing us. If we did, Great Leader would merely switch to VX warheads on cheaper missiles which would be technically much cheaper than nukes in the first instance.','2003-02-18 02:54:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(379,1,3072,'68.35.34.144','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','One major omission that Carter didn\'t address: both the Clintonistas and Bushies didn\'t consider how South Korea wouldn\'t support any military answer to North Korean noncompliance with the 1994 pact once the Sunshine policy started. After 1994, South Korea has fallen in love with the ghost of Neville Chamberlain, not realizing that they are the Sudetenland.','2003-02-18 02:59:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(380,1,3067,'68.35.34.144','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','At least we now know where the EU is going to recruit its Navajo \"code talkers\" from for their Rapid Reaction Force: Flemings.','2003-02-18 03:02:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(381,1,3051,'4.46.70.60','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Kent - the issue of weapons is a complicated one; for myself, I\'m seldom someplace without some kind of weapon at hand (subject to the appropriate local laws, of course).\r\n\r\nBut it\'s been my experience in living through a few earthquakes and lightweight disasters here in the Bay Area and Los Angeles that people are almost without exception cooperative and mututally supportive. The riots here were obviously the huge exception, but I drove through the fringes of them to pick up my wife at her office without incident (Reginald Denny was less fortunate).\r\n\r\nI\'m also a little concerned about people making the decision to buy a weapon out of a kind of knee-jerk anxiety rather than as a thoughtful decision.\r\n\r\nI ought to do a post on this...\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n','2003-02-18 04:19:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(382,1,3064,'65.95.80.158','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Good point, folks. Forgot that some of you aren\'t using Mozilla/Netscape, and so don\'t have tabbed browsing. Here\'s that military glossary again, conveniently placed so you can consult it without leaving this page:\r\n\r\n1SG = 1st Sargeant\r\n5 CLICKS = 5 kilometers (3 miles)\r\n60\'s / 81\'s = types of mortars (60mm, 81mm Shells)\r\nAH-64 = Apache attack helicopter\r\nALO = air liason officer\r\nATK = attack\r\nBATTS = batteries\r\nBOLLE GOOGLES = better commercial replacement for military\'s Sand Wind Dust Goggles.\r\nBINOS = binoculars\r\nBIRD = helicopter\r\nBN = batallion\r\nCAP = Combat Air Patrol\r\nCAS = close air support\r\nCLU = command launch unit for portable missiles, can also be used stand-alone as a day/night sighting device\r\nCOBRA = AH-1 Cobra attack helicopter\r\nEIB = Expert Infantryman Badge\r\nGATORS = small 4-6 wheel-drive all terrain vehicles\r\nINJ = injuries\r\nHE = High Explosive\r\nHELO = helicopter\r\nJRTC = Joint Readiness Training Center\r\nKENTUCKY WINDAGE = \'guesstimating\' when aiming a weapon because of wind or target movement\r\nLBV = load-bearing vest, serves as foundation and hang point for gear\r\nLZ = landing zone\r\nMSR STOVE = Mountain Safety Research brand portable stove\r\nM203 = grenade launcher that fits under the M-16/M-4, or a round fromn one\r\nM240 = 7.62mm medium machine gun\r\nM4 = compact version of the M-16 5.56mm rifle\r\nM68 = small non-telescopic gunsight with a red \"aiming dot\"\r\nMTR = mortar\r\nNVG = Night Vision Goggles\r\nPEQ-2 = Much stronger military version of a laser pointer; can help aim, or show a target to others\r\nPL = Platoon Leader\r\nRDS = rounds\r\nRUCK = rucksack, backpack\r\nS-3 = staff officer responsible for plans, operations and training\r\nS-4 = officer responsible for logistics planning and supply\r\nSAW = Squad Automatic Weapon, 5.56mm light machine gun\r\nSMAW = modern version of the bazooka rocket launcher\r\nSNIVEL GEAR = comfort items\r\nTTP\'s = Tactics Techniques and Procedures\r\nTHERMITE = burns and gives off lots of heat and light; melts stuff\r\nTM = team\r\nWP = White Phosphorous rounds that can create smoke, set fires and burn people, mark targets for engagement, or even signal the beginning of an assault\r\nWX = weather\r\nWPNS = weapons\r\nZERO = adjust the sights on a weapon so that the point of impact at a specified range is at the point of aim\r\n\r\n(Thanks to reader \"Dakota Aviator\" for a couple of clarifications)','2003-02-18 05:39:54','2009-06-25 22:53:17',NULL,3,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(384,1,3063,'68.52.67.123','Donald Sensing','gunner20@comcast.net','http://www.donaldsensing.com','Small correction: S3 and S4 are not rank. They are duty positions. \r\n\r\nThe S3 is the staff officer responsible for plans, operations and training. \r\n\r\nThe S4 is the officer responsible for logistics planning and supply.\r\n\r\nOthers: S1 - personnel, S2, intelligence. \r\n\r\nBTW, this system of staff of invented by the French. We copied it many decades ago.\r\n\r\n\"S\" staffs are found at battalion and brigae levels. At division and corps levels, they are called the G3, etc, because they are \"general staffs,\" meaning they work for a general. General staffs usuaklly have a G5 for civil affairs.\r\n\r\nStaffs consisting of reps from more than one service, as at Centcom, for example, are called J staffs, for Joint-Service.\r\n\r\nOther staff positions are not alphanumerically designated. They are called \"personal staff,\" such as the general\'s aide and driver, or \"special staff,\" such as the PAO, the JAG, etc. \r\n\r\nAt Battalion and Brigade level, the executive officer (XO) directs the staff. At division level up, there is a chief of staff who does so. There is no XO; there are assistant or deputy commanders who wield command authority. (XOs do not have command authority.)\r\n\r\nHope this helped!','2003-02-18 13:55:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(385,1,3064,'199.46.198.233','Joe McNally','jpm@shortstrangetrip.org','http://shortstrangetrip.org','Great post! Can you believe this guy\'s base pay is only something like $45,000 a year?','2003-02-18 15:52:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(386,1,3021,'80.15.101.242','xavier, a french student','iraqusafrance@hotmail.com','','sorry, this one: http://www.stopesso.com/funstuff/nose.html','2003-02-18 16:54:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(387,1,3067,'138.133.17.5','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Trent:\r\n\r\nLooking at the Belgian quote:
...the genius of the Franco-Belgian policy. It is primarily aimed at derailing NATO, which he describes as toolbox for American imperialism on the European dime. The second objective (and Coolsaet is very straightforward about it) is to thwart American influence by humiliating it in front of the Arabs (who have a very keen sense of honor and prestige, and who can be trusted to attack America relentlessly once it is humiliated). This ignorant fool who passes for a foreign policy scholar is actually proud of the acts of sabotage that his friends in government committed. But he offers no vision for a post-US world, eccept empty phrases about a multilateral order that will make everybody miraculously happy.What\'s the difference between this and my arguments? This is exactly, in their own words what the EUrocrats believe in and are trying to do.\r\n\r\nThey genuinely believe in a stable, multipolar world, and one of the ways they think they can get it is to create a EU that can stand up to the US...that\'s explicitly why they created the EU.\r\n\r\nThe fact that we suffer to achieve their aims isn\'t their concern, as it has not been our concern that Europe suffers when their interests and ours collide.\r\n\r\nWe have a broader vision of \'interest\' than they do, which lkeads to the assumption that if the rest of the world was \'like us\', we wouldn;t have conflict, just competition. \r\n\r\nThey are similarly convinced that if the rest of the world was like them...run by despotic bureaucrats...we wouldn\'t have conflict, but harmony. The French see themselves as the conductors who will manage that harmony.\r\n\r\nThey\'re wrong...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-02-18 19:30:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(388,1,3072,'140.180.128.178','Ray','ray@princeton.edu','http://raymo.blogspot.com/','Sorry about the Haloscan comments; I\'ll probably go off blogspot as soon as my schedule permits me to switch to something like MT (which probably means summer vacation).\r\n\r\nThe \"not knowing what it was getting into\" remark refers to the current Administration not having a strategy for the response they got: \"yeah, we have a uranium enrichment program. So what?\" That was rather not in the script -- the North Koreans don\'t really adhere to our sense of morals, and they admit the damndest things without a qualm. Point primarily being, we would want to call them on something like this, but doing it a few months before we were planning to go into Iraq may not have been the best idea -- it was the first step in the current crisis.\r\n\r\nPersonally, I think the North Koreans would have taken advantage of the situation in Iraq regardless of what the Administration did or did not say, but reasonable people can disagree on that one, and Prof Carter is more experienced than I on this stuff. ','2003-02-18 20:21:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(389,1,3021,'64.73.73.18','SparcVark','lanzknecht@hotmail.com','',' So, Xavier, if I\'m to get this right, you don\'t hate America - just our movies, health system, economy, schools, etc. etc. etc. Right. I\'ll point out just two things.\r\n\r\n 1) When France sank the Rainbow Warrior, Fernando Pereira, a photographer, was killed. One of eight people aboard. The French government denied involvement for months.\r\n\r\n 2) If you believe that Bush will invade Iraq at the behest of Exxon, rest assured that I\'m convinced that Total Fina Elf has something to do with Chirac\'s determination to see Hussein remain in power.','2003-02-18 23:28:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(390,1,3064,'24.221.8.212','John Moore','blogging@tinyvital.com','http://www.tinyvital.com/blog/','Great post...\r\n\r\nBut doesn\'t \"BARE WITH ME\" mean \"let\'s get naked together?\"\r\n\r\nOh well, you don\'t have to spell well to be a good soldier, as the rest of the letter shows so clearly.','2003-02-18 23:56:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(391,1,3063,'216.99.245.3','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','I love listening in on tech jargon from disciplines I know nothing about - this was fascinating.','2003-02-19 06:30:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(392,1,3074,'64.233.66.58','John','wonderbingo@yahoo.com','','Strategypage.com has a fairly regular update of the ivory coast situation.\r\n\r\nhttp://strategypage.com/fyeo/qndguide/default.asp?target=ivory\r\n\r\nActually, they have a fairly regular update of every conflict on the planet.','2003-02-19 11:35:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(393,1,2982,'208.60.68.36','Mitch','rr8mitchell@yahoo.com','','My GAWD, are you DAFT?\r\n\r\n I respect the Brits for hanging with us in these tough times, but this is LUNACY. They are leary of detention? Is it just me, or are British troops still active in Afghanistan...can you say POW???????','2003-02-19 16:14:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(394,1,3078,'64.229.236.93','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Compadre, every word here speaks to and for me. I can\'t wait to see the rest of this series.\r\n\r\nOne tip from my past experience with blog series... at the end of each post, have a set of links that will take a visitor to the other posts in the series. Your best bet for that is to repeat this in every single post, and make them into links:\r\n\r\n1. Introduction (this one);\r\n2. Risk in Business;\r\n3. Risk and Recklessness in Society;\r\n4. Risk in Politics;\r\n5. Iraq and Risk.\r\n6. Wrapup (and hopefully response to interesting comments)\r\n\r\nIt\'s a bit of a pain, but it ensures that everything really hangs together well. People come in a month later, and they can scroll forward or backward through the series no problem. My readers have told me in the past that they appreciate it.\r\n\r\nAgain, looking forward to your next bit.','2003-02-19 19:14:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(395,1,3064,'64.229.236.93','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','John,\r\n\r\nDon\'t ask, don\'t tell...','2003-02-19 19:15:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(396,1,2982,'64.229.236.93','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Adil had pretty much the same reaction. Chalk it up as one more consequence of EU integration, because that\'s where the asylum law problem is coming from.\r\n\r\nWhether the Brits could use the POW argument as an escape is a matter for a competent English lawyer to address. Beyond that, I suppose one could make the argument that this guy was still an enemy combatant who was infiltrating sans uniform contrary to the Geneva Convention (hence eligible for military justice). But to make that stick, it may be that one must first declare war.','2003-02-19 19:54:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(397,1,3075,'12.42.46.168','me','me@here.com','','I grew up in Staten Island, where there\'s a street named for him.\r\n\r\nI never bothered to find out why, figuring that the heavily Catholic population in that area wanted it for some church-related reason or other.\r\n\r\nBoy, was I wrong. Thanks for pointing out someone who should have been a hero to me all along.','2003-02-19 20:42:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(398,1,3078,'199.46.200.231','Joe McNally','jpm@shortstrangetrip.org','http://shortstrangetrip.org','First off, I really enjoy all the work you folks put into this site. On the subject of risk, For some reason I was reminded of the following parenting maxim that I thought applied \"Let your kids learn the hard lessons now, while the costs are low.\" Don\'t know where this fits into the scheme of things.\r\n\r\nThe counterpoint to the example from Black Hawk Down: a. It\'s not necessarily the operator\'s safety that was in question, and b. given Delta\'s elevated status, do they not have an obligation to acknowledge that the young soldiers are going to look to them and emulate their example, and furthermore, make sure they\'re setting a good example?\r\n\r\nI\'m not looking to argue, just discuss and think. Thanks.','2003-02-19 21:02:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(399,1,3064,'132.250.130.33','Doug Turnbull','dt4211@hotmail.com','http://beautyofgray.blogspot.com','What\'s disappointing is that (apparently at least), it took this guy\'s e-mail to get his opinions noticed by the higher ups. I would have thought it would be SOP to debrief everyone who faced combat to find out what worked and what didn\'t. I know if I were involved in just about any related area, I\'d want to talk to as many front line soldiers as possible to figure out what would make thier job easier.','2003-02-19 22:01:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(400,1,3078,'138.133.17.9','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','No argument taken! Personally, I\'d have sided with the NCO as well; in my case simply because there\'s no downside to doing the safe thing there.\r\n\r\nBut the example did made my point for me, which is that our actions are what makes us safe.\r\n\r\n(Plus, having met one or two Delta types, correcting them is the last thing I\'d be likely to do...)\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n\r\n','2003-02-19 22:14:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(401,1,3078,'199.46.200.231','Joe','jpm@shortstrangetrip.org','http://shortstrangetrip.org','How true, I used to have a First Sergeant who had previously been with \"The Guys\". He was the consummate professional and really an all around great guy. I went to work in terror every day(I was a lieutenant, the company XO). \r\n\r\nI guess maybe the point is there\'s a difference between swagger and courage. Perhaps, by a degree of mental follow through? You can be brave and posess swagger, but to be brave with knowledge and understanding of the implications and consequences is to posess courage. \r\n\r\nAnyway keep writing, I\'ll keep reading.','2003-02-19 22:46:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(402,1,3078,'12.224.128.2','Cowboy Kahlil','Kahlil@despammed.com','http://reachm.blog-city.com/','Calculating risk is fine, but when it comes to the care and maintenance of an empire, history suggests the greatest risks are not outside forces whose aggression is visible and head-on.\r\n\r\nThe greatest risks are the surreptitious ones that eat away at the center, till, sufficiently weakened, outside forces can divide and conquer the empty shell that\'s left.','2003-02-19 22:55:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(403,1,3075,'68.52.67.123','Donald Sensing','gunner20@comcast.net','http://www.donaldsensing.com','A story that needs to be told, for sure. I am reminded of the four chaplains aboard a troops ship bound for England. The ship was torpedoed. The order to abandon was given. When the chaplains saw that all of the life jackets had been given away and some troops were left without, they each gave theirs away, locked arms and prayed and sang hymns while the ship sank beneath them. \r\n\r\nOne of those four chaplains was a Methodist, Lt. George L. Fox. The others were Lt. Alexander D. Goode, Jewish; Lt. John P. Washington, Roman Catholic; and Lt. Clark V. Poling, Dutch Reformed.\r\n\r\nAlthough chaplains do not bear arms, it is not necessarily true that a chaplain is automatically a pacifist. \r\n\r\nIn wars past, many pacifists did enlist in the armed forces to serve as medics or another medical field. Steven Den Beste once documented the story of Pvt Doss, who earned the Medal of Honor even though he was a stout pacifist. \r\n\r\nPacifism does not equal cowardice, although I have written that almost all the self-proclaimed pacifists I have met are cowards:\r\n\r\n\"What their brand of pacifism decidedly is not is a self-risking position on which they are willing to risk their lives in mortal danger to bring peace through non-violent means. They don\'t go anywhere, certainly not anywhere dangerous. They just stay at home and tut-tut their way through the war. Then, after having had their freedom preserved through the sacrificial, blood-letting exertions of others, they congratulate themselves on what a splendid religion they have and how morally superior they are.\"\r\n','2003-02-19 23:49:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(404,1,3078,'192.68.228.4','Chris','chris_ward@yahoo.com','','I\'d have to agree with Joe about that BHD scene. It was really an example of the way the Delta guys played by their own rules - one of the reasons that they were held in such esteem by the young, impressionable Rangers. (The \"regular army NCO\" was actually a Ranger officer - Captain Steele, I believe.) \r\n\r\nYour point comes through nonetheless.','2003-02-20 01:26:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(405,1,3076,'68.35.34.144','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','I figured that Stansfield Turner would get my goat, and here is where the goat bleated:\r\n\"The Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard all need their own tactical intelligence functions, but do not need to be part of the larger, strategic intelligence community ...\"\r\n\r\nTurner shows in one sentence how he had a culpable role in screwing the pooch in the first place. What is manifestly needed is integration of data gathering on a functional basis, and correlation of analysis. Right now we have duplication of redundant intel satellite systems, and with NMD defense that situation is only going to get worse. Turner\'s article is last year\'s wine gone sour six months ago, and being passed off as premier grand cru instead of the vinegar it really is.','2003-02-20 02:46:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(406,1,3075,'68.35.34.144','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','That was the first time I cried reading one of your columns.','2003-02-20 02:49:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(407,1,3067,'68.35.34.144','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','Conductors in a 12 tone Hindemuth symphony perhaps. One of the ones that nobody can sit through without turning down their hearing aids.','2003-02-20 02:53:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(408,1,3078,'12.90.118.151','patrick Walsh','walshp@worldnet.att.net','','Mr. Armed Liberal, Very good article in general and it hits a theme I have noticed on my own. Americans are people who tend to do inherently risky things, like skydiving, racing motorcylces, riding bulls, waterski acrobatics etc. But they also build up a body of practice around the activity to make it possible to not only perform the activity more than once and live, but also to score it, compete in it, and make it almost a science. The combination of the derring to perform the action and the presence of mind to make a science of it makes the Americans an extremely dangerous adversary. I also completely agree with the sentiment that human competence and not some artificial machine or rule is what reduces risk.\r\n\r\nHowever, the Delta Trooper in the example you gave is flat wrong. In that situation the threat of a momentary attack was near zero. In fact the threat of him tripping and falling and causing a negligent discharge was greater than his need to have his weapon \"off safe\". I have run some pretty hairy live fire exercises where the primary safety factory was the individual soldier looking though his sights before firing, but there was no legitimate reason for that man not to have his weapon on safe. His response should have been: \"Yes, sir\" and put the weapon on safe. If that exchange was real, then the Delta Force had a problem which I hope they have corrected. The Delta Soldier should have been reprimanded and possibly prosecuted or dropped from Delta for negligence, disrespect and insubordination.\r\n\r\nPatrick E. Walsh\r\nMAJ USA (RET)','2003-02-20 04:02:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(409,1,3079,'207.53.234.219','Twirlip','twirlipofthemists@yahoo.com','http://slashdot.org/~Twirlip%20of%20the%20Mists/journal','A few days ago I wrote a very brief comment about two possible scenarios for the Allied war plan. It\'s a little out of date now-- the Turkish front may be changed to a pincers attack from Kurdistan and eastern Jordan-- but I think it\'s basically sound. If you\'re interested, you can read it -->here<--.','2003-02-20 04:44:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(410,1,3079,'66.17.17.16','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','The first notice that some Iraqi officers have that the American attack has started, if one is necessary at all, may be phone calls telling them to come out with their hands up. Some of the recipients will have already cut deals.','2003-02-20 05:12:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(411,1,2274,'80.128.244.148','Eugene Seidel','removethispartesolenopsis@netscape.net','','Thank you for this clear-eyed dismissal of the intellectual lightweight and loudmouth Edward Said.\r\n\r\nI have been a big fan of \"Muslimpundit\", your web journal, and through it discovered Windsofchange.Net.\r\n\r\nPlease continue writing, your voice is gratefully appreciated.','2003-02-20 09:05:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(412,1,3080,'64.229.236.93','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Has pissing off everyone who would otherwise stick up for them become a national project for the French, or what?','2003-02-20 15:19:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(413,1,3021,'81.48.100.198','xavier, a french student','iraqbushfrance@hotmail.com','','what you say about chirac might be true. yet i rather suport a crap who shows himself in favor of peace than one who\'s in favor of war because the country he is determined to attack is in the evil axis. it looks like a big bad joke.\r\nplease don\'t say what i never said. i never talked about movies for what i can remember. even if i think that they aren\'t many good american movies compared to what is produced, refering to an hollywood organisation against war, the american actors seem to be quite intelligent to understand that a war in the middle orient ain\'t so clever. many of them hate bush for what i saw. and they aren\'t any anti-american. ','2003-02-20 16:49:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(414,1,3078,'207.105.63.144','wrharper','wrharper@hotmail.com','http://onaclearday.blogspot.com','I\'ve posted a few thoughts of my own (on safties)over on my site, that could be summed up as:\r\n\r\nI like to gamble in the same sense that casino operators do. When it\'s a calculated risk and the odds are clearly in my favor.\r\n\r\nLoved that movie btw.','2003-02-20 20:12:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(415,1,3084,'68.63.184.142','Joe McNally','jpm@shortstrangetrip.org','http://shortstrangetrip.org','This continues to be a great thread. For some reason I\'m reminded of the story of Soichiro Honda, not an a wholly American success story, but some of the same principles apply. ','2003-02-20 22:38:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(416,1,3077,'216.163.68.207','Peggie Duggan','pmjnd@yahoo.com','','Thank you. Succinct, graphic and to the point. I\'ve used this in response to all the sign for peace email I\'m getting. Well done.\r\n\r\n','2003-02-20 23:31:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(417,1,3077,'66.159.220.194','Brian Glass','brian1789@lithic.net','','So... I gather that your argument is \"Saddam killed a whole bunch of Iraqis, so let\'s use our modern weapons and go kill a bunch more\"? Sounds suspiciously like an argument of two-wrongs-making-a-right. Or right-wing, at least...','2003-02-21 16:38:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(418,1,3087,'207.73.73.24','Dean Esmay','dean@deanesmay.com','http://www.deanesmay.com','The main thing I take away from things like this is that no matter what course of action was chosen, there would have been bright, well-informed, in-the-loop, and thoughtful people who thought it was a terrible idea.\r\n\r\nWhile I was very skeptical of the U.N. route at first, I think that people who said it was the right way to go. It gave us time to build up our forces, and it also gave us increased credibility in many people\'s eyes.\r\n\r\nYes, there are those who say it\'s reduced our credibility. They are wrong. There were a number of nations that were straddling the fence before we went to the U.N. who are now on board with us, precisely because they saw that we were willing to compromise and try to reach a consensus before acting.\r\n\r\nEven if we don\'t get another resolution, the choice we made seems to have garnered us more allies than going it alone would have--and given us all kinds of time to get our ducks in a row in the process.','2003-02-21 17:36:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(419,1,3088,'207.73.73.24','Dean Esmay','dean@deanesmay.com','http://www.deanesmay.com','I was pretty sure it wasn\'t a troll. Here\'s a similar image I got straight off of a self-proclaimed \"peace\" site:\r\n\r\n
![](\"http://www.deanesmay.com/peacetime.jpg\")
','2003-02-21 17:44:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(420,1,3021,'216.190.16.99','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Xavier,\r\n\r\n Regards French versus American support for dictators, I have two words: Robert Mugabi.\r\n\r\n He is Chirac\'s kind of thug. He shows proper respect for France and the proper amount of hate for the Anglo-Americans.\r\n\r\n Have a nice day.','2003-02-21 18:10:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(421,1,3084,'64.160.48.13','John Weidner','weidners@pacbell.net','http://jottings.blogspot.com','This is very interesting, A.L. Keep it up.\r\n\r\nre: Joe\'s comment, it is a common misconception that the Japanese aren\'t entrepreneurial. There are many stories like Honda\'s. \r\n\r\nBUT, they are mostly found in the post-war period. Our bombers wiped out many businesses, and there was lots of space for new ones to grow. The guys who started Sony were almost literally sitting in the rubble dreaming up business plans.\r\n\r\nNow weak business are kept alive by the Japanese government, and the smart people all have lifetime jobs.\r\n\r\nThe most precious resource an economy can have is people who have nothing to lose, and are eager to try something new.','2003-02-21 18:30:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(422,1,3088,'12.207.130.197','Sandy P.','karl.pedersen@attbi.com','','And on a lighter note, via Mr. Esmay(?), which I just love, \"Kiwi caught speeding semi-naked on motorised bar stool.\"\r\n\r\nAnd his backside was on fire. Seems it\'s a party trick of his.','2003-02-21 18:33:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(423,1,3087,'67.121.72.1','John Weidner','weidners@pacbell.net','http://jottings.blogspot.com','Yes, a must-read.\r\n\r\nI don\'t find Pollack\'s negatives very persuasive. The endless \'peace-process\' negotiations have never done any good, and stopping them gives us a chance for a realistic new start. And once Iraq falls everyone will be in a much more realistic frame of mind. \r\n\r\nAnd Iraq is not a distraction from Al Queda, it\'s a blow at their weakest point, which is that all the terrorist groups need terror-supporting nations to be effective. Once we take out the ugliest one, the others will be much less enthusiastic.\r\n\r\nAs for JMM\'s ambivalence, I very much suspect it is partisan, and if Clinton were President he would feel none. But it\'s a very good interview.','2003-02-21 19:53:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(424,1,3089,'4.46.70.60','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Actually, Trent I agree with much of this; I think that the EUrocrats are working toward a \'despotic bureaucracy\', as I describe it below, and that it is politically and economically a house built on sand.\r\n\r\nI also agree that the demographic (and productivity) boost that the Eastern nations will bring to the EU (along with the Brussels\' bureaucrats natural desire to expand their domain) are a big part of why the EU is looking to expand.\r\n\r\nI just break with you in your more fervid descriptions of these processes - in large part because I think that those attitudes limit us in our array of responses, and also because I\'m convinced that this is a deadly serious conflict and I never fight when I\'m mad...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-02-21 20:34:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(425,1,3021,'63.165.44.252','Chuck','cberrya6e@sbcglobal.net','','Re: French vs. American freedom of the press\r\n\r\nChirac is a worm:\r\nhttp://media.guardian.co.uk/presspublishing/story/0,7495,900093,00.html\r\n\r\nProhibited from poking fun at your politicians. Doesn\'t sound too free to me.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-02-21 20:45:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(426,1,3089,'141.156.186.24','Arnold Kling','arnoldsk@us.net','http://arnoldkling.com','I\'m afraid that economically, Israel takes is too close to Europe. See Living in Minus','2003-02-21 20:55:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(427,1,3081,'199.67.138.20','Stephen Sherman','analyst@acepilots.com','http://ww.acepilots.com/opinion/blogger.html','Thanks for linking to the Brown/Hudner story on my website.\r\nI have recently started a blog and have linked to windsofchange.net on it.\r\nPlease link to my blog, if you like.\r\nThanks,\r\nStephen Sherman\r\n','2003-02-21 21:52:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(428,1,3089,'216.190.16.99','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.com','','A.K.,\r\n\r\nTwo points missed in that article are\r\n\r\n1) Israeli\'s connections to the Silicon Valley\r\n\r\nand\r\n\r\n2) Israel\'s ability to assimilate large numbers of immigrant jews and christians into their economy.\r\n\r\nThe first shows that the entreprenurial spirit is alive in Israel in a way it is not in Europe and the second means Israel doesn\'t have the demographic pension time bomb Europe does.\r\n\r\nIsrael\'s problems are structural-political. They cannot decide what to do about the Palestinians because they prefer a poltical system that creates stasis and corruption via small political party veto.','2003-02-21 21:54:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(429,1,3089,'64.233.66.58','John','wonderbingo@yahoo.com','',' I do not believe that pensions NECESSARILY cause bankrupcy. If productivity grows fast enough, fewer workers CAN support more pensioners. Similarly, if there is enough economic growth, government revenues grow enough to prevent bankrupcy. Do you remember that Medicaide in America was supposed to run out of money in the late 90\'s? It did not because of unforcast growth in the US economy. Similarly, if productivity in America continues its (mysterious) unhistorically high growth, there will be no shortfall in Social Security. Of course, trends never continue (or we would have 10 billion people on the planet.) Still, there is a way out of the pension hole. \r\n\r\n So what does this have to do with Europe? Europe, unfortunately, does not pursue American policies of encouraging productivity and economic growth. Even with clear examples of various economic practices, Europeans have decided that Socialism is the way. Which is fine, but there are consequences. Lower productivity and growth mean that the pension hole is going to eat them. Unless they raise the retirement age, cut benefits, raise taxes, or all of the above. None of these solutions are very palatable. \r\n\r\n This is why a supposed \'European Superpower\' to challenge the US will never happen unless Europeans fundametally change their political outllook. The European Union cannot challenge America economically as long as it remains Socialist. Since military strength is a function of economic strength, I am not worried about any future European military threat. Besides the political considerations there is an economic calculation. Even with very low defense spending, European countries are unable to adequately employ their workers or provide for their old people. America, with a huge military burden, easily outperforms the EU in almost every economic sphere.\r\n\r\n The EU is a good idea. Free trade has helped the member countries enormously. The central bank has provided currency stability to many countries who have never experienced low inflation. However, Socialism has a political, not an economic, goal. It provides more equality but less prosperity. This is a trade off, and intelligent people realize this. One can honestly decide that equality is more important than economic growth. I now many leftists who feel this way. However, if the EU was serious about being a superpower, it would have to adapt measures to encourage economic growth over other considerations. I do not think this will happen, as European voters prefer Socialism. More importantly, so does the elite who run Brussels. ','2003-02-21 22:00:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(430,1,3089,'65.206.92.146','G.Haubold','g.haubold@att.net','','The article was excellent except for this:\r\n\r\n\"The danger is that much of continental Europe will suddenly reach a tipping point, when taxes rise, deficits rise, unemployment rises, public services deteriorate, deflation takes hold – and the best of the young depart, leaving the old and the poor to cope as best they can.\"\r\n\r\nUnder the above scenario, runaway inflation is usually what you get rather than deflation. See Argentina for example. When I think about France and Germany 20 years from now, I think of Argentina. Before WW II, Argentina and Canada were very close in terms of population and GDP. Today, Canada\'s GDP is close to 2x that of Argentina. And the gap is widening, fast.\r\n\r\nAs long as the Old Guard from the Bundesbank holds onto the reigns of monetary policy in Frankfurt, runaway inflation is improbable, but you have to wonder what the makeup of the EU Monetary Board will look like in 10 or 15 years when the pension and demographic issues start to bite.\r\n\r\nLast, the global competition for productive human capital will harshly contribute to the EU\'s troubles - just as the harnessing of the technologically proficient billions of capitas in India and China will help drive productivity growth - in an increasingly global world.\r\n\r\nIt\'s not that easy to come up with a winning strategy for the EU - bringing in lots of former east bloc countries would be a short term band-aid at best - but it\'s very easy to evaluate their current strategy and pronounce them dead dead dead in the long-run competition for power.','2003-02-21 22:20:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(431,1,3087,'65.206.92.146','G.Haubold','g.haubold@att.net','','The following interview on National Public Radio with Wolfie was pretty good, too (note-it\'s been edited for space):\r\n\r\nQ: Would lack of Turkish cooperation weaken any attempt of the northern front going into Iraq? Would it jeopardize oilfields in the north of the country? \r\n\r\nWolfowitz: Turkey is critical to having an effective northern option, and that northern option would speed the outcome but the outcome is going to be the same one way or the other. And if we have to use force, Saddam Hussein will be gone and he needs to know that. I think the Iraqi armed forces know that. So the outcome is certain either way. \r\n\r\nQ: Turning to the United Nations and efforts of a second UN resolution on Iraq. Do you see a risk in prolonged consultation at the UN level? Or is there a greater risk in beginning a military campaign without the backing of the United Nations? \r\n\r\nWolfowitz: There are a variety of risks that the President has to balance here and there\'s no question that the longer we wait the more time Saddam has to prepare weapons of mass destruction, to prepare diabolical plans to gas his own people. We get reports about that kind of thing. The more time he has to expand the terrorist networks that already operate out of northeastern Iraq and have sanctuary in Baghdad. So those risks grow. \r\n\r\nI think the strain on many of the countries that are literally in the front lines grows with time. It doesn\'t get easier on many of the countries that are really critical to us to delay and delay. And when you say acting without the United Nations you\'re really saying acting in spite of a French veto. And one has to say how important is France versus how important are all the other people who are there and ready to support us? And how long do you say wait and wait and wait in the face of what is clearly open defiance by Saddam and the Iraqi regime, total absence of any serious willingness to disarm? \r\n\r\nQ: We\'ve been hearing concerns voiced by Arab countries about the risks of war with Iraq and an eventual U.S. occupation of that country. At the United Nations yesterday there were envoys from Muslim countries warning of massive political instability in the region, of huge numbers of deaths and injuries as well as refugees. \r\n\r\nHow do you respond to those concerns? \r\n\r\nWolfowitz: First of all to say that we will do everything humanly possible to achieve the defeat of the Saddam Hussein regime with minimum casualties to the Iraqi population and to try to -- There\'s no such thing as a humane war, but to try to minimize the inhumanity that will result. I think clearly some of the fears come from exaggerated notions of what may happen. \r\n\r\nThose fears are real, though, they are concerned about how their own populations will react to what will unquestionably be a disturbing and unsettling thing. It\'s one of the reasons why the President has tried so hard to achieve a peaceful disarmament of Iraq. But at the end of the day I think many of these governments understand that if the United States is really prepared to act, that it will be an act of humanity of the Iraqi people, that it will be an act that will bring more stability to the region, not less. But don\'t expect them to stand up before we\'ve made our decision and say please go take care of Saddam Hussein. This is like asking some small shopkeeper to take on the Mafia in their neighborhood. They expect the law enforcement authorities to do the job. \r\n\r\nQ: There are concerns, too, though about the rise of Muslim extremism in the region inflamed by the U.S. occupation of Iraq, and in fact we did see that after the first Gulf War, an increase in anti-American activities and Islamic extremism. Isn\'t that a very real concern? \r\n\r\nWolfowitz: First of all let me correct the history because we didn\'t see that. After the first Gulf War we saw the Madrid Conference, the first time that most Arab countries sat down and met face to face with Israel, which should hardly be surprising if you remember that to go back another ten years it was Saddam Hussein in Baghdad that organized the so-called confrontation block to oppose Anwar Sadat\'s efforts to make peace with Israel. When Saddam Hussein was no longer considered dangerous, we were able to get the Madrid Conference together. \r\n\r\nThat was followed by the Oslo Agreement which has not lived up to its expectations, but it\'s clearly one of the major breakthroughs. \r\n\r\nWhat I believe has contributed to some Islamic extremism is the fact that we have had to stay for 12 years now, containing Iraq with sanctions on Iraq, with weekly bombing of Iraq because Saddam Hussein continues to defy the United Nations. Another 12 years of doing that is certainly going to feed the Islamic extremism. \r\n\r\nBut we\'re not talking about the occupation of Iraq. We\'re talking about the liberation of Iraq. We\'re talking about the liberation of one of the most talented populations in the Arab world and perhaps the most long-suffering population in the Arab world. \r\n\r\nIn the conference room that we\'re sitting in and talking now, last Friday I met with five Iraqi-Americans from Michigan. Interestingly, three Shia, one Sunni, one Caldian Christian. Very broadly representative of the population back in Iraq. Two things were striking to me. \r\n\r\nOne was the almost desperate desire that they reflected and clearly that their relatives, some still inside Iraq reflect, to be rid of this tyrant. And every one of them had terrible stories from their own experiences or their families\' experiences. Three of them in fact, actually were overcome with emotion in the course of telling their stories and had to stop for a minute or two. It\'s very moving. It wasn\'t a surprise to me if you -- I get a little irritated sometimes when people say well we all know how bad Saddam Hussein is. Well, we really don\'t. I mean I dealt with Ferdinand Marcos. Ferdinand Marcos is a Sunday School teacher compared to Saddam Hussein. Saddam Hussein is in almost a unique category. \r\n\r\nTherefore, when that regime is removed we will find one of the most talented populations in the Arab world, perhaps complaining that it took us so long to get there. Perhaps a little unfriendly to the French for making it take so long. But basically welcoming us as liberators. Then it\'s up to us to behave as liberators, and I\'m sure we will. \r\n\r\nAmericans are not conquerors. The Arab world is going to see that and it\'s going to have a very big impact not just in Iraq but throughout the Arab world. \r\n\r\nQ: But the presence of -- I have to take you back one more time after the Gulf War. The presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia has been one of the most inflammatory things for al Qaeda and groups like that. That they see U.S. occupation or U.S. presence in that country as something that they must fight against. How would it be any different in Iraq? \r\n\r\nWolfowitz: First of all, let\'s talk about Saudi Arabia. We won\'t need troops in Saudi Arabia when there\'s no longer an Iraqi threat. The Saudi problem will be transformed. IN Iraq, first of all the Iraqi population is completely different from the Saudi population. The Iraqis are among the most educated people in the Arab world. They are by and large quite secular. They are overwhelmingly Shia which is different from the Wahabis of the peninsula, and they don\'t bring the sensitivity of having the holy cities of Islam being on their territory. They are totally different situations. But the most fundamental difference is that, let me put it this way. We\'re seeing today how much the people of Poland and Central and Eastern Europe appreciate what the United States did to help liberate them from the tyranny of the Soviet Union. I think you\'re going to see even more of that sentiment in Iraq. \r\n\r\nThere\'s not going to be the hostility that you described Saturday. There simply won\'t be. \r\n\r\nQ: I don\'t mean within Iraq necessarily, but external to Iraq. \r\n\r\nWolfowitz: It\'s hard to see how people externally can complain if the Iraqi people are saying these people came and liberated us. \r\n\r\n\r\nQ: This past weekend there were massive protests against a possible war with Iraq around the world, and the British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw conceded on Monday that going to war against Iraq in the face of such widespread public opposition would be in his words very difficult indeed. Do you share that concern? \r\n\r\nWolfowitz: First of all, I take his concern very seriously. The British have been perfect allies in this and Prime Minister Blair has been a real profile in courage. I remember more years ago, in 1964, being in front of the Lincoln Memorial and hearing Martin Luther King give that incredible speech, \"I have a dream,\" and there were several hundred thousand of us there demonstrating for civil rights. I understand that very powerful emotions are generated by those large numbers of people. \r\n\r\nBut I would ask people to stop and think for a minute about the fact that people are not free to demonstrate in Baghdad. People in Baghdad are literally terrorized into silence. The penalty for speaking out, even whispering against the regime there is the most horrible kinds of torture and death, not just for yourself but for your family. It\'s monstrous. \r\n\r\nIf the people of Baghdad were free to demonstrate you\'d see millions in the street saying \"please come, why haven\'t you come sooner?\" And quite honestly, if the demonstrators want to prevent a war the best thing they could have done would have been go and demonstrate in front of the Iraqi embassy and send a message to Saddam saying time is running out for a peaceful solution here. \r\n\r\n . . . . . . . it\'s a war, if it comes to a war, aimed at removing what is a real threat to the United States, to our friends in Europe, and by the way also to the Iraqi people and the people of the Persian Gulf. This group that was arrested in London recently was planning to put ricin into the London subway system. Ricin is one of the most deadly poisons known to man. They are connected to that facility in northeastern Iraq that Secretary Powell spoke about that is connected to Baghdad. Their leaders have found sanctuary and shelter in Baghdad. There is a real threat there . . . . . ','2003-02-21 22:28:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(432,1,3089,'208.187.34.4','Jacob Proffitt','Jacob@Proffitt.com','http://www.jacob.proffitt.com/','I agree with the analysis, but I see this as a description of symptom, not cause. Proving causality is always a pain, so I don\'t offer any proof, just observation and my perspective. Some cultural tendencies in Germany (where I have direct experience) that bear on the pensioner problem:- Germans are even more reluctant than Americans to have children. There is a stigma to families such that I found it easier to rent apartments with pets than with children. No amount of Kindergeld (money paid to families for having children) is going to alleviate this stigma.
- Being a child in Germany sucks. Sure, you\'re over-indulged, but you have no real role-models, no play places, and stifling cultural expectations.
- Education and training are extremely inelastic with a child\'s life course chosen pretty much from age 12 and practically inalterable from that point forward. This introduces the concept of stratified work duties early and that leads to...
- Culturally driven compensation that associate a job\'s rewards with arbitrarily assigned status rather than need, use, supply or demand.
\r\nSome of you guys might want to read Ha\'aretz occasionally: comments that are regularly condemned in the US as \"anti-Semitic\" are part of the standard political dialog there. The problem with folks like Wolfowitz and Safire isn\'t that they are blindly pro-Israel, it\'s that they are blindly pro-Likud, and push policies that are not in Israel\'s long-term interest. Israel simply can\'t maintain its identity as a Jewish democracy and hold on to the territories, as it will soon rule over a majority-Arab state.\r\nIf it rejects giving the Palestinians a state, it only has three other choices, two tried by South Africa (apartheid: re-occupy the territories fully, and bantustans: find quislings to run small chunks of unwanted territory as \"homelands\"), and one tried by Serbia (ethnic cleansing: expel the Muslims from the land). There are still plenty of decent people in Israel who hope for something better.\r\n','2003-02-24 06:46:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(502,1,3097,'217.2.14.80','Person of Choler','ghry@yahoo.com','','What am I doing about the anti-Semitism of the Left? As a white h*t*ros*xual able-bodied male, all I can do is welcome you at last to the \"Vilified by the Left No Matter What\" society.\r\n\r\nWhy not ask folks like Barbra Streisand, Susan Sontag, and Ed Asner to help you out? They have worked hard to support the left, maybe they can subdue the hardliners a little. Perhaps they can take the little chip out of the mouth of the anti-Semitic Golem they have been so busy nurturing.','2003-02-24 13:42:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(503,1,3097,'209.178.213.81','crandan','crandan@the44.net','http://www.jakeneck.com','\"The problem with folks like Wolfowitz and Safire isn\'t that they are blindly pro-Israel, it\'s that they are blindly pro-Likud\"\r\n\r\nthank you joe buck. the left criticizes governments, all governments, regardless of religion or ethnicity. And my segment of the left criticizes those governments simply because they are authoritarian. That\'s not anti-any kind of people. ','2003-02-24 17:26:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(504,1,3102,'66.26.55.24','Carlee','carleeromagnoli@yahoo.com','','Wonderful post. You have my support.','2003-02-24 18:13:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(505,1,3097,'81.218.99.183','Ilana','walsh@bezeqint.net','','It\'s true that there is very lively discussion in Israel about whether or not to hold on to the territories captured in 1967 - after all, as is often said, Israel is a democracy.\r\nBut there are many elements of the current left wing preoccupation with Israel that can only be described as anti-Semitic, starting with just that - their preoccupation with Israel, when there are so many terrible things happening in the world - they never mention Tibet, Chechnya, Somalia..... Another factor is the one-sided nature of the condemnation, particularly comparing Israel to Nazis - something which I don\'t think would ever be part of accepted discussion in Israel. There is no hint that Israel is actually at war with the Palestinians, a war which they started and which they have often said is aimed at destroying Israel.','2003-02-24 18:55:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(506,1,3103,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','What will cost big bucks for the school systems involved is not liability for damages, but compliance with the injunctive relief, which will entail teacher training in things like \"have a clue\" and \"get a life\", plus oversight committees which have to be paid, etc. For at least 10-15 years.\r\n
\r\nIt would be a lot cheaper for the school districts to file the idiot perpetrators but they won\'t, as their mission is to provide employment for the staff, not educate the children who are required to attend.','2003-02-24 19:12:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(507,1,3102,'12.252.137.93','B. Durbin','dex_lives@yahoo.com','http://dexlives.keenspace.com','One would think that teachers would refrain from saying bad things about their students\' parents, if only in the HOLY NAME of SELF ESTEEM. Of course, one would be wrong.\r\n\r\nMore than ever I am thankful that I had the opportunity to go to one of the best schools in my city. Thinking back, I can\'t recall my teachers EVER making an ideological statement... unless one calls the teaching of civics such a statement.','2003-02-24 20:11:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(508,1,3102,'206.222.52.18','Jeff Brokaw','jeffbrokaw@NOSPAMyahoo.com','http://jeffbrokaw.net/weblog/index.html','Wow. It\'s hard to believe any teacher could be that idiotic. Perhaps one of these brave examples of human leadership should go over to Iraq, and spend five minutes as an Iraqi - until then, shut yer cake hole, and let adults make the important decisions. \r\n\r\nAnd I agree, Joe, leave the kids out of it. \r\n\r\nCan you even imagine a similar scenario in 1942? I can\'t. People like this are poison and should NOT be teaching our young folks ANYTHING. ','2003-02-24 23:06:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(509,1,3097,'198.26.123.37','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Until the left condems things like Syria\'s leveling of Hama with as much venom as they do the Israeli security forces minimalist measures. \r\n\r\nI will dismiss them as the anti-semetic, murderous, bigots in Palestinian bed sheets they are.','2003-02-25 00:20:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(510,1,3100,'198.26.123.37','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Joe,\r\n\r\n All political fundraisers are slimy. That is their job. The question is not whether they go into gray areas of the law. The question is are the people in this money-nexis knowingly, traitorously, criminal because they want to hurt America in their self-righteous fury.\r\n\r\n As for the IRS power problem, the answer as always isn\'t with the politicians. It is with the people. When people care enough about politics to change things, it will.\r\n\r\n The current course of power politics was trail blazed by Clinton and the Bush43 Administration is going to follow the presidence they laid down in dealing with Democrats and the media.\r\n\r\n Right now all people care about is killing the threat to their security at home. The Democrat\'s abdication on the subject and partisan obstructionism for campaign money elsewhere leave them vulnerable because the public won\'t listen to their soon to be true complaints of Bush43 abusing executive power. \r\n\r\n You have to have a creditable message and the ability to reach people. The Democrats lost the former by not impeaching Clinton, so the latter doesn\'t mean squat.','2003-02-25 00:32:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(511,1,3108,'203.219.29.111','John Ray','jonjayray@hotmail.com','http://jonjayray.blogspot.com','This is a disgrace at a private school. You should speak to the chairman of the board of governors and let it be known that you will take your fees elsewhere if it continues. You COULD try talking to the Head first but it sounds like he must condone it.\r\n','2003-02-25 11:40:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(512,1,3108,'203.27.19.117','Nick','Nick@thepanicoffice.com','','I know of one private school in my local area which is encouraging students to write anti-war letters to newspapers. \r\nIt\'s sad to see this sort of thing is going on in Melbourne, somehow I doubt it\'s confined to our city.','2003-02-25 12:29:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(513,1,3005,'63.64.185.250','P. S. Vail','psvail@comverse.com','','Buy a Prius!! It does all that TODAY, and more... Is both clean and I am averaging 48MPG since 1/2002.\r\n','2003-02-25 13:34:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(523,1,3103,'67.235.10.37','Subotai Bahadur','tsuma@rmi.net','','Mr. Trelenko,\r\n Could you cite or link to evidence of what is happening in Kansas and Texas [and elsewhere]? I have already forwarded the Maine cases to my Congress-critter [who is on the Armed Services Committee] at high volume. Further information will be forwarded as soon as it can be confirmed. I have my doubts about the parents effectively taking on the teachers individually [even through the courts], or the willingness of Congress-critters by themselves to take on the teachers, or the media [FOX News, where are you?] by themselves. But a combination of all three would be more than the sum of the parts. \r\n\r\n I submit that all readers should be screaming to their Congress-Critters and stirring up as much media interest as possible. NO QUARTER!\r\n\r\n Please keep us updated.\r\n\r\n\"Subotai Bahadur\"','2003-02-25 17:40:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(515,1,3108,'63.206.169.251','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','\"Let the boy earn his spurs.\"\r\n\r\nMy parents sent me to a variety of Sunday schools to innoculate me against religious ditzes (not the Catholics though - they were serious). I was _kicked out_ of Baptist Sunday school at the age of six for arguing with the instructors, which I thought was terrible because I loved the Baptist comic books for kids (those were what really hooked me on reading the Bible). The one I really hated, though, was the Presbyterian Sunday school, as it was incredibly boring.\r\n\r\nThere is a major, major difference between teachers who are fair and those who aren\'t. If they\'re fair, this is a great opportunity for the boy. If they\'re not, it\'s child abuse.','2003-02-25 15:29:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(516,1,3102,'204.91.170.3','Mostafa Sabet','mostafa988@yahoo.com','http://meaux.blogspot.com/','Whatever your views on the conflict of Iraq this is unconscionable. Do these teachers harass the children of tobacco executives? If the children of Saudi and Egyptian citizens who are here were harassed for their countrymen\'s involvement in 9-11 people would be, understandably, outraged. I can\'t believe this is happening to the children of the men and women who are defending us. I agree, leave the children out. If you want to express your views to the parents, save it for Parent-Teacher night (still an inappropriate soapbox, but at least you\'re dealing with the adults rather than the children).\r\n\r\nThanks for drawing attention to this Joe.','2003-02-25 15:54:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(517,1,3108,'208.37.156.192','Jack','nospam@allpleez.info','','Speaking as another father, I would just give you one small piece of advice. \r\n\r\nBe uncompromising about the quality and content of your children\'s education. It is the single most important thing you can do for them.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-02-25 16:26:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(518,1,3108,'65.202.39.198','Timmy the Wonder Dog','nimrodusa@hotmial.com','','Give you son some historical background, reminding him that Aussies died in North Africa fighting Nazism and that GIs died in the South Pacific defending Australia. Then give him permission to confront the teacher in class with the information. The best outcome is a teacher\'s conference (make sure that the headmaster attends)) and you can address your concerns head on and advising that your child has your full support in future similar situations.\r\n','2003-02-25 16:27:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(519,1,3105,'68.80.246.111','Mac','mac@glennfrazier.com','http://glennfrazier.com/','Thanks, Joe!\r\n\r\nGreat link to the poem, by the way.\r\n','2003-02-25 17:05:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(520,1,3097,'209.178.213.81','crandan','crandan@the44.net','http://www.jakeneck.com','Unless you haven\'t noticed Trent, the \"left\", or I would rather say the progressive movement, as only recently sprung to (back to) popularity. The majority of the 80\'s and 90\'s saw a completely comatosed state of progressive opinion among a subdued tranquility in America. After GW\'s election, the global justice movement (incorrectly referred to as the anti-globalization movement) came to the forefront of \"the left,\" culiminating in the Seattle demonstrations. Now, due to the increased power this movement has gained, an in-depth critique has been performed on the current status of oppressive governments around the world, including, but not restricted to, the U.S. government, the Palestinian government, the Iraqi government, the Israeli government, the British government, the North Korean government, the Italian government - hell the oppressive nature of all governments. \r\n\r\nWhat happened in 1982 in Hama is atrocious, and I definitely stand against it. I understand that a focus on Israeli action seems unfair, but you must understand the conditions surrounding it. First of all, due to this movement being recently borne, it is focussed on current events. I asure you that this movement would move as harshly against Syrian oppression today as it would against Israeli. Secondly, \"left\" action in the U.S. is naturally focused on actions by this government. Israel\'s actions are focused on because the U.S. is their number one financial, military, and political supporter. \r\n\r\noh and I\'m pretty sure I\'ve never even seen a palestinian bed sheet. Do they even have bed sheets? Or even houses for that matter? Palestinian people, even the ones dying for their rights, are not the evil in the world, and until people like you, Trevor, realize that the better off we will all be. ','2003-02-25 17:24:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(521,1,3097,'209.178.213.81','crandan','crandan@the44.net','http://www.jakeneck.com','or trent rather. my sincere apologies.','2003-02-25 17:25:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(522,1,3102,'63.226.25.66','Sandy Price','sjp@rightpov.com','','Many of us parents did notice this decline of American values as far back as 1963. My oldest girl was just starting public school first grade and I was pregnant with another one. We had sold our home and I was looking for a bigger house and thought I would interview some of the school administrators in several school districts. I found that most of the administrators were flower children who had no set standards or firm curriculums to offer my daughter. She had been in nursery school and seemed to take to academics easily.\r\n\r\nShe would have been totally lost in several of these schools so I went out looking for a private school. I wanted American values, history, culture, you know the whole patriotic thing offered to my girl and found one! \r\n\r\nTurned out that I was not alone and a small group of teachers and mothers put this new school together from an old smelly motel. I found a home nearby, talked the mate into making the move and it was the best damn thing I have ever done.\r\n\r\nMy friends who had their kids in the government schools were horrified at the feeling of anti-Vietman vets and even dared to tear down the heroes of WW2. \r\n\r\nEverything American was wrong and only the United Nations should be respected. Why these decent American parents allowed this was beyond me. My girls both loved our very different school, the teachers and especially the all American celebrations that they all were involved in.\r\n\r\nThe Anti-American tripe coming our of our schools goes back to the late 50s and I\'m shocked that people are just now seeing it.\r\n\r\nBTW, both my girls attended Berkeley and came out Conservative Republicans. The brain washing was good!','2003-02-25 17:27:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(524,1,3108,'63.226.25.66','sandy Price','sjp@rightpov.com','','There is plenty you can do to counter this stuff from school. Take up your own point of view at the dinner table and involve you son into researching for himself the truth about whatever is being spun at school. \r\n\r\nI dumped my television and involved my kids in horse and dog training. I found some good reading lists of the classics that do help in molding an ethical mind in a child. Explain to your son that there many different points of view when it comes to government issues and show him that yours stand for freedom of independent thinking instead of following one agenda off a cliff. Explain that is he voices his issues in the classroom he might be criticized.\r\n\r\nI sent my kids to Christian school and yet my kids learned all about evolution from me! I also taught them to follow the basic rules found in the Ten Commandments but they learned them by instinct not by rote. I helped them develop their brains and to never make any decision based on emotions but on rational fact.\r\n\r\nAyn Rand helped me do with with her many books and essays. Come on Parents, step up to the plate and show your kids how to be winners!','2003-02-25 17:43:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(525,1,2982,'217.227.132.7','joe bob','yank@goe.com','','Try out the US policy...send those suckers to a Brit version of Guantanomo Bay, Cuba. Whatabout the Faulklands. surely you Brits have a rock somewhere to send them.','2003-02-25 18:00:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(526,1,3107,'24.62.158.103','JAE','deyadd@hotmail.com','http://weekendpundit.blogmosis.com','And I am willing to bet that there is a very efficient bureaucracy in charge of keeping track of who gets the needle at what time, and what drugs are used in what amount, just to keep the billing all right and proper. Good Lord…','2003-02-25 18:15:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(527,1,3107,'64.229.236.93','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Good article. Poor solution. Poor because the problem goes much deeper, and what you propose will never happen until that deeper problem is fixed.\r\n\r\nHere\'s the thing: Our medical community will NOT act, because its \"ethicists\" by and large share these values. American (and Canadian) institutions also deny care on grounds that have zero to do with payment, or HMOs, and share a great deal in common with the rationale behind Euthanasia in Holland.\r\n\r\nWhich means the problem is both closer, and deeper, than your analysis would indicate. It isn\'t as easy as pointing to the bad people over THERE. It\'s happening HERE, NOW, often in ways that are far more painful than lethal injection (dehydration is popular, and takes several days).\r\n\r\nYou simply must read Wesley J. Smith\'s \"Culture of Death: The Assault on Medical Ethics In America.\" Smith\'s only flaw is that his tone is over the top sometimes when it would be better served by simply stating the facts and cases. For it has those in abundance, and they will make the point all by themselves. \r\n\r\nRead it, folks! I have little doubt that it would launch a fleet of powerful and sorely needed blog postings. Even if that knowledge makes it harder to target the Netherlands as a unique example, I\'d call it a worthy trade.','2003-02-25 18:17:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(528,1,3107,'64.229.236.93','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','One more point, worth making. Even if the charges are true, and I believe they are, it does not logically follow that \"the Dutch people have gone Nazi\" as a blanket moral judgement. \r\n\r\nThey have a hideous policy that I believe may have some beneficial effects, but allows thoughtless evil and provides a cover for real evil. Good people ought to disagree with them on moral grounds about this, vocally. But that does not make the Dutch evil people as a whole, any more than disagreeing with America\'s approach to Iraq is license to brand Americans as evil people on the whole, or Nazis, or whatever. We see enough of that crap from the idiotarian brigades.\r\n\r\nThe Dutch did stand up to real Nazis not too long ago, under great duress. Pointing out the similarities with Nazi eugenics reasoning is a valid and sound debating tactic, one that carries persuasive power. Calling the Dutch Nazis is not, and does not.','2003-02-25 18:36:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(529,1,3107,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','There are enormous moral and legal differences between refusal to treat, and involuntary euthanasia through active measures.','2003-02-25 18:44:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(530,1,3107,'65.107.76.49','Phillip J. Birmingham','phillip@bigscary.com','','I\'m gathering that Smith gets his \"1000\" number from the Remmelink report of 1991, by a former Dutch attorney general. Too bad that he doesn\'t have the honesty to quote Remmelink entirely, else he might have to weaken his case by admitting that in those 1000 cases, the doctor and patient had discussed euthenasia previously, and the doctor was acting in accordance with the patient\'s wishes. At least that\'s what I hear Remmelink says.\r\n\r\nYou can check out the Discovery Institute\'s website at www.discovery.org. It\'s, er, interesting...','2003-02-25 18:58:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(531,1,3107,'4.42.140.1','Methuselah\'s Daughter','methuselahsdaughter@yahoo.com','http://3500years.blogspot.com','I have never looked in to the euthanasia issue with any great interest, but what is reported here is not terribly surprising, nor is the reported reaction of the Dutch representative to the conference. With the rise of the socialist mindset in Europe the idea that doctors might have incentive to do away with elderly patients who are clearly at the very last stages of a long process of dying is a given, and one could even make some sort of case that it is not entirely evil, so long as you are prepared to check your ethics at the door.\r\n\r\nWhat you are presented with is pragmatism taken to an extreme, which is one of the nutshell characterizations of socialism. When you look at medical resources as a fixed and heavily regulated commodity (shall we call it rationing for the sake of simplicity?) then it makes perfect sense to cut one’s losses on cases where there is no realistic hope of a positive outcome. I am relatively certain (no, I have not researched this at all) that none of these patients were strapped to a table, pleading to be allowed to continue to live; however, if one is inclined to accept the “nose of the camel” concept it becomes alarming to consider what the future holds for a society which has begun to accommodate itself to the concept of “doing away” with people whom it feels are too expensive to support. If you also consider the earlier reported issues of the EU Pension problem and the likely decline of the EU economy over the coming decades and it is not difficult to see the threshold of what is considered “too expensive” being lowered substantially.\r\n\r\nThis is where European devotion to process can suddenly transform itself in to the road to damnation.\r\n','2003-02-25 18:59:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(532,1,3107,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','I was just given this link in email (click to see).','2003-02-25 19:32:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(533,1,3089,'24.128.96.133','Anon','anon@anon.nowhere.net','','Re \"the European social welfare model, where the current generation of working people pay the benefits of the current generation of retirees\"...\r\n\r\nI thought this was the US model as well.\r\n\r\nNot its original intent, but the current practice. My understanding is US retirees burn through their own social security contributions in just a few years. So US social security is, on the whole, acting as a retrogressive tax.- on-average poorer current workers funding benefits for on-average richer retirees. This description due to a noted MIT economics professor whose name I don\'t recall at the moment.\r\n\r\nI\'m not saying this is a bad thing. Only that the old \"social security is an enforced savings system in which people pay for their own retirement\" concept has apparently not reflected reality in years.\r\n','2003-02-25 19:42:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(534,1,3107,'206.124.141.234','Jason McCullough','jason@hronk.com','http://zebco.blogspot.com/','Um, sources, please? You also shouldn\'t believe a damned thing you read in NR, without a backup.','2003-02-25 19:44:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(535,1,3106,'207.30.206.67','Kathy K','noway@dev.null','http://site-essential.com/','Now wait a minute! I was the one that linked Scott, not MommaBear. Sniff. \r\nThat\'s ok. I\'ll credit MuslimPundit next time you post something... ;)\r\n(Just joshing you... happens all the time to people on multi-user blogs.)','2003-02-25 19:50:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(536,1,3106,'64.229.236.93','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Sorry. Fixed.','2003-02-25 20:01:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(537,1,3102,'128.174.74.28','John Brandon','jbrandon@uiuc.edu','','It is time for a return to corporal punishment. Teachers who misbehave in this manner deserve a good old thrashing. I recommend a public paddling in front of all the students and parents.','2003-02-25 20:37:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(538,1,3102,'63.189.145.173','Steve Dundas','padresteve@earthlink.net','','In 1972 when I was 12 my dad was in Vietnam and I had a Sunday school teacher in the church we were attending tell me that my dad was a \"baby killer.\" I had friends whose dad\'s never came home. If it wasn\'t for the care of a Navy Chaplain I would have given up on God. Now I\'m a Chaplain myself, and I find that teachers of any sort who subject kids of military members to such treatment to be hateful and loathesome individuals. Freedom of speech is one thing, harrasing military kids is another. Shame on them, we provide for those people\'s defense, and they loathe us so much that they taunt our children. It angers me to see this happening and the teachers not being disciplined. Shame on them and those that tolerate such behavior. ','2003-02-25 21:11:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(539,1,3102,'67.217.183.248','e teegardin','ete22@juno.com','','\"the old saw is still true\"\r\nthoes that can do/ those that can\'t teach/\r\n\r\nall the teachers i know personally are UNION dupes having already been brainwashed.like wise many preachers who offer nothing but critism of the consertives, but never offer much themselves\r\nbut an extended hand to steal your $$$$ fot\r\ntheir good causes.','2003-02-25 21:19:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(540,1,3102,'66.69.30.109','R. Platt','rplatt1@satx.rr.com','','\0\0Any teacher \0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0that would harass a chlld because his parent is serving our country n the military is a rotton cowardly bastard and should be fired, Sorry for the profanity but it\'s the only way I could even begin to express my anger at this vile, disgusting, behavior.','2003-02-25 21:34:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(541,1,3102,'66.57.147.145','ryan','ryan_klar@yahoo.com','','i hope fox news picks up this story because otherwise it will be lost under a pile of \"market skiddish due to iraq fears\" and \"blix says iraq willing to comply\" stories.\r\n\r\nthe grand irony is that these teachers can\'t use the word God in schools, but they can proselytize youngsters with political tripe can call it freedom of speech.','2003-02-25 21:55:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(542,1,3103,'205.188.209.39','Lea Hankamer','lehank@aol.com','','I am a fifth grade teacher in Virginia and I am appalled at this report. If it is true, then these teachers need to be reprimanded and owe an apology to the students and their parents.\r\n\r\nIncidents like these do not help those of us in teaching who are sensitive to the situations and needs of our students. I not only have students whose parents are in the military and have been called up, but I have several Muslim children from Pakistan and Afghanistan. Talk about having to walk a tightrope. Since we are not far from the Pentagon and much of our school population is military, I have to watch the war talk so that the Muslim children are not offended. \r\n\r\nAlthough I am a parent of a naval aviator and I support the administration\'s position on Iraq, I certainly do not express those views in the classroom. I believe that my position is to let the children voice their opinions in a respectful way.\r\n\r\nThe parents of those children, if they have not already done so, need to report these incidents to their local school board.\r\n\r\nSincerely,\r\n\r\nMrs. Lea Hankamer\r\nWoodbridge, Virginia','2003-02-25 22:06:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(543,1,3102,'68.48.214.146','david foster','photoncourier@yahoo.com','http://photoncourier.blogspot.com','Next time you hear from \"progressives\" about the importance of being \"caring\" (particularly for \"the children\"), keep this incident in mind. The caring is purely abstract. When it comes to real people, they can be humiliated (or worse) at will.','2003-02-25 22:08:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(544,1,3107,'152.163.190.1','Celeste','celeste@windsofchange.net','http://permagringirl.blogspot.com','Jason McCullough -\r\nHere\'s some fun reading for you: the International Task Force on Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide has a nice collection of links regarding Dutch euthanasia. I think it\'s just as scary as Trent makes it sound.','2003-02-25 22:10:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(545,1,3102,'67.24.6.62','w clarke','heathmar1@msn.com','','Afterall, these teachers are good for one thing. Send them over as human shields.','2003-02-25 22:12:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(546,1,3107,'64.101.208.194','Annoying Old Guy','aog@thought-mesh.net','http://blog.thought-mesh.net','Even if the figures cited in NR are bogus, there is still the issue of the Dutch representative not viewing it as a problem, unless you think that the NR writer fabricated the entire exchange (it\'s difficult to think where you\'d get a second source for that).','2003-02-25 22:21:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(547,1,3102,'63.230.177.29','Jim Hogue CMSgt USAF ret','JIM.HOGUE@VERIZON.NET','','I am so angered that my first draft reply was a disgraceful example of losing one\'s composure.\r\n\r\nI left my twin sons to go to the first Gulf War and my wife reported that even in the supportive, pro-military community we lived in, it was hard on them. Years later they still were upset that I, in their perceptions, had “abandoned” them to go fight in a war on the other side of the world. \r\n\r\nAnd no one attacked their self-esteem or self worth by lecturing them that their father was “bad.”\r\n\r\n I’m appalled that anyone, but especially an educator could sink to the level of terrorizing children. I’m sending this link to several of my retired military friends in Maine to let them know how contemptuously they are held by some of their state’s educators.\r\n\r\nJim Hogue, CMSgt. USAF ret.\r\n','2003-02-25 22:32:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(548,1,3102,'152.16.22.171','fred','littermaker@earthlin.com','','Reminds me of when I was in Columbus Georgia stationed at Ft Benning. Our 7 year old was in a public school that we liked very much. One night, though, at the PTA meeting the discussion came up about how to teach the kids about the evils of guns (this was around the time of that boy shooting his teacher in the face a few years back). They (the principal and the teachers) wanted to have this course on how bad and dangerous guns were.\r\n\r\nI\'ll never forget as this one father stood up and said (in effect) that he was an Infantryman in the Army and didn\'t think it was appropriate to send the signal to his kids that their father was doing something wrong by being in the Army, that there was something wrong with him being assigned an M-16 to defend our country. I was equally proud when he received an ovation. \r\n\r\nNeedless to say (or maybe it\'s not needless to say), and to their credit, this blanket type of gun banning indoctrination of our kids did not happen. Not that year.','2003-02-25 22:33:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(549,1,3108,'63.214.91.87','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','Your best bet is to remind the \"powers that control the purse strings\" where the money comes from; the odds are good they are not of the age group that has deliberately disremembered history. If they are unresponsive, it may be necessary to locate a school with a different agenda, but at least you will have shown your son that there are decent ways to protest the apparent attempts at \"indoctrination\". \r\n','2003-02-25 22:34:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(550,1,3102,'168.179.236.64','AST','thorpe@co.emery.ut.us','http://cockalorum.blogspot.com','Too bad we can\'t draft human shields for Iraq. \r\n\r\nI\'ll bet Brit Hume covers it on the Grapevine. If he doesn\'t, O\'Reilly will, or I\'ll spam him. ','2003-02-25 22:42:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(551,1,3102,'167.76.159.30','Allen Glosson','aglosson@earthlink.net','','What these \"educators\" seem to forget is that Mommy or Daddy will on be gone temporarily and will return home at some point.\r\n\r\nMommy or Daddy, being a soldier and not accustomed to accepting such nonsense, will make his or her views known to the appropriate party. This will come back to haunt these cowardly teachers.\r\n\r\nAs the Opinion Journal likes to point out, if these teachers were Republicans, this would be hate speech.','2003-02-25 22:42:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(552,1,3102,'68.69.25.53','Howard Veit','veit2@adelphia.net','','Thanks Joe. A great post. But here\'s something positive for you parents with kids who are being manipulated and abused like this. I was a seven year old in 1942. I went to public school, but because my mom was Catholic I also attended Catechism class twice a week. I\'m seven. The nun made the statement that the Japanese did NOT attack Pearl Harbor on December the 7th, they attacked it on December the 8th, JAPANESE TIME so as to attack on the Feast of the Virgin, which is on December 8.\r\n\r\nNow folks, even at seven, my little God inside me said, \"this could be bullshit kid\". Think back. Even as children we weren\'t totally stupid. I don\'t know what I can personally do about this but I\'m going to try for an hour a day.\r\n\r\nThanks again, Joe. And to you people who are in the service and who have kids in these schools, I\'m sure they will get support.','2003-02-25 22:44:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(553,1,3102,'208.50.197.83','Jeff Fecke','jeff@fecke.com','http://moderateleft.blogspot.com','Support or oppose the war, doesn\'t matter. Soldiers are going out and laying their lives on the line. They don\'t decide whether or not to fight--that\'s done by politicians. If you don\'t like a war, blame the politicians--but don\'t blame brave men and women who want nothing more than to place themselves between civilization and the cold horror of war. They go where they\'re told, in accordance with their orders.','2003-02-25 22:46:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(554,1,3102,'208.250.57.153','Ed Anderson','eanderson@arb-forum.com','','This is one of a million reasons why parents should have real school choice. \r\n\r\nEven a government school teacher could figure out not to do such things, if the parents could move their children and that lovely chunk of tax money to a school where the teachers cared about the kids.','2003-02-25 22:51:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(555,1,3102,'208.250.57.153','Ed Anderson','eanderson@arb-forum.com','','This is one of a million reasons why parents should have real school choice. \r\n\r\nEven a government school teacher could figure out not to do such things, if the parents could move their children and that lovely chunk of tax money to a school where the teachers cared about the kids.','2003-02-25 22:51:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(556,1,3108,'68.169.72.192','Eric Olsen','ericolsen@compuserve.com','','Dude, great work. The reward? Check out your 5pm hour. I am impressed.','2003-02-25 23:02:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(557,1,3102,'12.240.218.30','Andrew','lloyd.a@attbi.com','http://patheticearthlings.blogspot.com','\r\nCan we bring back the pillroy? These people need to be pummeled with over-ripe fruit.\r\n','2003-02-25 23:08:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(558,1,3102,'64.160.55.98','Gene 6-Pack','unclgene@pacbell.net','','Spam may be good for something after all.\r\nPost the names and e-mail addresses of these teachers so they can receive appropriate thanks from all of us for their concern.','2003-02-25 23:10:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(559,1,3103,'199.159.140.227','Paul A\'Barge','paul.abarge@email.com','http://ytmag.com','Ranting is not enough. Provide the names, email addresses and/or telephone numbers of people who should be held responsible, such as education administrators with authority over these teachers.\r\n','2003-02-25 23:13:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(560,1,3102,'199.159.140.227','Paul A\'Barge','paul.abarge@email.com','http://ytmag.com','Ranting is not enough. Provide the names, email addresses and telephone numbers of administrators who should be held responsible for the behavior of these teachers.\r\n','2003-02-25 23:14:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(561,1,3103,'68.99.115.132','Mark B.','mark@pipka.com','','Trent, could you give me further information on the Kansas cases? I\'m steamed.\r\n\r\n--Mark','2003-02-25 23:16:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(562,1,3102,'199.159.140.227','Paul A\'Barge','paul.abarge@email.com','http://ytmag.com','I think you\'ve got the last name wrong of the Maine administrator. See *this page*:\r\n\r\nDo a search for \"duke\" on this page. His name is Albanese.\r\n\r\nAnd, voila, there is his EMAIL address.\r\n\r\nGo to it, boys and girls. Don\'t just rant, communicate.\r\n','2003-02-25 23:18:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(563,1,3102,'165.127.199.174','\"Sourdough\" Jim Jackson','jjackson@dimensional.com','','\"Makin\' mock o\' uniforms\r\nThat guard you while you sleep\r\nIs cheaper than them uniforms,\r\nAnd they\'re starvation-cheap...\"\r\n --Rudyard Kipling, \"Tommy\"\r\n\r\nSome things haven\'t changed in over a century.\r\n','2003-02-25 23:21:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(564,1,3102,'199.249.193.112','Guy Montag','GMontag@GuyMontag.com','http://www.franceisoccupiedgermany.org','I was outraged when I read of this. Immediately posted a call to arms in my Slashdot Journal to spread the word. Submitted it as a story to SlashDot too, but their editors do not seem to think it is news : * 2003-02-25 21:53:38 Maine Elementry Students Harassed (articles,ed) (rejected)','2003-02-25 23:22:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(565,1,3103,'68.102.159.39','Harold Stones','hstones@cox.net','','Please email me all the specifics possible re any such situation in Kansas.','2003-02-25 23:23:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(566,1,3103,'66.148.249.34','Tim Reavis','treavis@atlascomm.net','','Please do everything you can to insure these persons are exposed for what they have done. Public humiliation is only a small price to pay for their actions versus the pain they possibly have inflicted on these kids.','2003-02-25 23:23:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(567,1,3102,'199.159.140.227','Paul A\'Barge','paul.abarge@email.com','http://ytmag.com','Now that you have the guy\'s email address and telephone number, maybe you\'d like to *see what this guy looks like*\r\n\r\nAnd *there\'s this*\r\n\r\nNote that Maine is the state that is pro-active about making sure that religion is politically incorrect. But they can\'t find it in their hearts to protect children from hearing evil spewed about their military parents.\r\n\r\nMust be something about that pesky freedom of speech of bigoted teachers, being all sacrosanct and all.\r\n\r\n*Then this*.\r\n\r\nNote that Maine is real big on \"No Child Left Behind\". Unless that child is the child of someone who has chosen service to their country.\r\n\r\nFinally, note that the two US Senators from Maine are RINOs (Republican In Name Only). What a place of bottomless filth.\r\n','2003-02-25 23:26:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(568,1,3107,'62.163.74.34','Ben Winden','benwinden@freemail.nl','','I live in Holland and we are not going Nazi. Please.\r\nYou report 1000 illegal deads by euthanasia yearly. I don\'t argue that calculated guess.\r\nNot long ago euthanasia was not regulated in Holland. Nowadays docters are obliged to document the proces (uncurable terrible suffering; second opinion; family approval; etc.), also when a patient actively demands euthanasia. Many doctors want to continue the old situation of non-intervention of government in doctor-patient relationships. And the chance to get caught by the police is of course almost nil. The number of 1000 is not reached by doctors gunshooting their patients but by benevolently stopping to give some treatment or by changing doses; exceptionally by injecting a deadly dosis. But when a doctor breaks the rules and get caught, he is being punished. I remember a family doctor who didn\'t ask for a second opinion - he is no doctor anymore. \r\n\r\nIn my calculated guess has in situations of extreme and hopeless suffering euthanasia always been practised by caring doctors, in Holland and elsewhere in Europe. It was always a doctor-patient-family thing, without government interference. But nowadays euthanasia is legalized and bureaucratized. A majority of the Dutch people approves, but many doctors feel criminalized. In fact they must give themselves up to the police and next prove they are innocent. Doctors are obstructing this law and that is bad, but Holland is not going Nazi. We think euthanasia must at all cost be avoided, and happily pain-killing medicaments are very effective. But sometimes the patient is uncurable, suffering unbearable and \"request or consent\" not possible. Then a lot of people, myself included, wish to enter a human doctor. I also hope my family to consent, and I definitely want the doctor not to act prematurely and consult colleges.\r\n\r\nI was more or less shocked by your article. Has it to do with Saddam? I am pro-war and hate to see USA and Europe drifting apart. In these weeks I read many articles in which USA and Europe besmear each other. But as you are no War-mongers we are no Nazi\'s.','2003-02-25 23:29:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(569,1,3102,'205.188.209.39','Gene Fischbach USN(Ret.)','jgfischbach@aol.com','','\r\nLet me think, \"Maine borders our northern neighbor, a oneway bus ticket should take these nasty teachers to a country of like minds.\" Who knows? After a few years maybe Jimmy Carter will be elected to the White House again. Then they can come home.','2003-02-25 23:39:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(570,1,3102,'199.249.193.112','Guy Montag','GMontag@GuyMontag.com','http://www.franceisoccupiedgermany.org','Sorry for posting again so quickly.\r\n\r\nI wonder if the same beurocrats would just blow off reports of State Trooper, Sherriff\'s Dept and local Police kids getting the same sort of crap? \"Oh, your daddy is \"The Man\", \"Nazi\", \"Storm Trooper\", \"Jackbooted Thug\", \"Fuzz\", \"Pig\" and all of those other old hippie terms? Would they say \"we are looking into it\" or would they be putting out words of warning on the way to papering over the situation?\r\n\r\nYes, I know that the police might be actually doing something more forceful about a situation like this, within some version of the law, and Soldiers tend to be more polite (or deployed too far away to accidentially block a teacher\'s car).','2003-02-25 23:42:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(571,1,3102,'63.174.27.56','garrett','g_spot43@yahoo.com','','as a teacher who is not a \"union dupe\" or \"brainwashed\" this kind of behavior makes me want to puke... the persons responsible in Maine should be exposed to heavy media scrutiny et al...At our school one of the teachers got called up and we threw an assembly to honor him & send him off...I teach at an urban public school in PA...we pledge allegiance every day & the students helped me paint an american flag over my windows in support of the troops & the country...we put a new quote in the window every day...(today the students selected \"liberate Iraq\" from a list they generated)\r\nso save us the platitudes & generalizations e teegardin, you need to meet some different teachers or carry your stress in the jaw or something...\r\nthese jackasses in maine are an affront to the teaching profession, not a representation of it...','2003-02-25 23:44:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(572,1,3103,'198.26.130.37','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','To All The Best of the Web visitors:\r\n\r\nThe current cases I am aware are from friends on military affairs mailing lists I subscribe too. Neither they nor their impacted friends wants to handle this in the public. \r\n\r\nThis is a common response from active duty military parents to this sort of thing. They and their kids have to live there after the media event is over. They don\'t want to make waves. Especially when they will be gone in a couple of years.\r\n\r\nPlease remember public education bureaucracies don\'t respond well to military parents for the simple reason they are transient. They don\'t have the connections in the local community necessary to influence local education politics. \r\n\r\nThis makes petty vengence on military kids a very high pay off activity for the self-righteous Left in public education positions. And they have done so in the past and will do this again, once people are not looking.\r\n\r\nThe difference in Maine is that they went after military people in the National Guard. Who by definition have very deep roots in their community and won\'t be leaving any time soon. \r\n\r\n','2003-02-25 23:52:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(573,1,3103,'12.249.172.234','Jim C.','zgystardst@yahoo.comihatespamcom','','\"...[o]f all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive...\"\r\n\r\nThe Montana court was quoting C.S. Lewis\'s novel \"That Hideous Strength.\"','2003-02-26 00:04:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(574,1,3107,'198.26.130.37','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.ent','','I suggest all and sundry go to this link:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.internationaltaskforce.org/fctholl.htm\r\n\r\nThe following is a clip from the report at the link:\r\n\r\n\r\nTHE FACTS\r\n\r\nThe Remmelink Report-- On September 10, 1991, the results of the first, official government study of the practice of Dutch euthanasia were released. The two volume report (6)--popularly referred to as the Remmelink Report (after Professor J. Remmelink, M.J., attorney general of the High Council of the Netherlands, who headed the study committee)--documents the prevalence of involuntary euthanasia in Holland, as well as the fact that, to a large degree, doctors have taken over end-of-life decision making regarding euthanasia. The data indicate that, despite long-standing, court-approved euthanasia guidelines developed to protect patients, abuse has become an accepted norm. According to the Remmelink Report, in 1990:\r\n\r\n· 2,300 people died as the result of doctors killing them upon request (active, voluntary euthanasia).(7)\r\n\r\n· 400 people died as a result of doctors providing them with the means to kill themselves (physician-assisted suicide).(8)\r\n\r\n· 1,040 people (an average of 3 per day) died from involuntary euthanasia, meaning that doctors actively killed these patients without the patients\' knowledge or consent.(9)\r\n\r\no 14% of these patients were fully competent. (10)\r\n\r\no 72% had never given any indication that they would want their lives terminated. (11)\r\n\r\no In 8% of the cases, doctors performed involuntary euthanasia despite the fact that they believed alternative options were still possible. (12)\r\n\r\n· In addition, 8,100 patients died as a result of doctors deliberately giving them overdoses of pain medication, not for the primary purpose of controlling pain, but to hasten the patient\'s death. (13) In 61% of these cases (4,941 patients), the intentional overdose was given without the patient\'s consent.(14)\r\n\r\n· According to the Remmelink Report, Dutch physicians deliberately and intentionally ended the lives of 11,840 people by lethal overdoses or injections--a figure which accounts for 9.1% of the annual overall death rate of 130,000 per year. The majority of all euthanasia deaths in Holland are involuntary deaths.\r\n\r\n· The Remmelink Report figures cited here do not include thousands of other cases, also reported in the study, in which life-sustaining treatment was withheld or withdrawn without the patient\'s consent and with the intention of causing the patient\'s death. (15) Nor do the figures include cases of involuntary euthanasia performed on disabled newborns, children with life-threatening conditions, or psychiatric patients. (16)\r\n\r\n· The most frequently cited reasons given for ending the lives of patients without their knowledge or consent were: \"low quality of life,\" \"no prospect for improvement,\" and \"the family couldn\'t take it anymore.\"(17)\r\n\r\n· In 45% of cases involving hospitalized patients who were involuntarily euthanized, the patients\' families had no knowledge that their loved ones\' lives were deliberately terminated by doctors. (18)\r\n\r\n· According to the 1990 census, the population of Holland is approximately 15 million. That is only half the population of California. To get some idea of how the Remmelink Report statistics would apply to the U.S., those figures would have to be multiplied 16.6 times (based on the 1990 U.S. census population of approximately 250 million).\r\n\r\n','2003-02-26 00:06:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(575,1,3107,'198.26.130.37','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','The above is why I say the Netherlands has gone Nazi.\r\n\r\nAs for Dutch \"regulation\" of involuntary murder, this is from the same article:\r\n\r\n\"Falsified Death Certificates ---In the overwhelming majority of Dutch euthanasia cases, doctors--in order to avoid additional paperwork and scrutiny from local authorities--deliberately falsify patients\' death certificates, stating that the deaths occurred from natural causes. (19) In reference to Dutch euthanasia guidelines and the requirement that physicians report all euthanasia and assisted-suicide deaths to local prosecutors, a government health inspector recently told the New York Times: \"In the end the system depends on the integrity of the physician, of what and how he reports. If the family doctor does not report a case of voluntary euthanasia or an assisted suicide, there is nothing to control.\" (20)','2003-02-26 00:08:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(576,1,3102,'168.212.247.3','Leon','leon_likens@hotmail.com','','Ditto what Garret said. I too am a teacher in Washington State, not known for being a bastion of conservatism. I am an army brat of a Vietnam vet who proudly served his country for 20 years. I was amazed and horrified by the conduct of the teachers who would do this. They do need to be held accountable for their behavior. That being said the characterizations that many have made here about teachers is, in my opinion, as horrible because of their reliance on generalizations and exagerations about the individuals in this honorable profession. Criticize those who would dishonor my profession with this behavior but leave the rest of us, who would call them on the carpet for it, out of it.','2003-02-26 00:13:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(577,1,3102,'24.174.236.70','sissy faggard','rayberry3@yahoo.com','','The left wing in our country might as well be a fifth column of Sadam Hussein!','2003-02-26 00:18:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(578,1,3102,'216.220.246.32','Carolyn Larson','seahorses3@midmaine.com','','A real thanks to WABI - no other network station has bothered with this -\r\n but then, the other Maine stations\' standard media bias shows in every report - send congrats to \r\nWABI at \r\nThe people critical of how this story was played, have to ask themselves \'why did this story hit a real public nerve\'? The public nerve has been rubbed raw by story after story of the irresponsibility, the anti-Americanism, the child abuse, which occurs daily in public schools. This story was all too believable with what we know about public schools and teachers unions. I\'m substitute teaching now between jobs. I overheard a 6th grade teacher answering a question from a student on the war. He explained how the Gulf War ended with a ceasefire, where Saddam agreed to disarm. He hasn\'t disarmed and has violated the agreement. The US and allies have every right to resume hostilities to enforce the agreement. I talked with this teacher later about what he said and more generally his philosophy. He said he keeps his own political views out of the classroom and hasn\'t made pro- or anti-war comments. He said had usually voted Democrat, but now leans Republican, because of the corruption of the Clinton years and that today, the Dem\'s are playing politics with the war. Of course, he doesn\'t agree with pubbie education proposals. But the Dems have been so disgusting, they\'ve pushed this guy pretty much out. Amazing.','2003-03-06 15:00:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(956,1,3147,'208.61.111.84','B.G. in Louisville','goode_p@bellsouth.net','http://maine teachers','I suggest next time you think before you jump on the O\'Reilly show whether you want to make this public, get the kids involved etc. child abuse SHOULD BE MADE PUBLIC NATIONWIDE, but not with later coming out and playing it down, and pushing the blame on the media. Like kids \"I didn\'t do it, he did it\" in this case the media. Forgive me if I and many others I talked to are now wondering because of your behavior. NOT wondering if this story is true, but wondering what \"higher ups\" were maybe paid off so to speak to put a lid on it. Looks like both are kissing each other\'s a.., and forget the poor kids. They might be only 7 yrs old, but don\'t be fooled 7 yr olds can tell and see and wonder \"why do I have to go back to this teacher\'s class\". I was mentally abused by a teacher saying to me in front of the class \"you just don\'t get it do you? I was 6, (I was not a military kid) but just the same I told my mom, and she took me by the hand immediately we went straight to that teacher, I don\'t remember the details because this happened many yrs ago, and after we paid that teacher a visit my mom and I went straight to the principals office. Needless to say this teacher NEVER made a rude remark again for knowing my mom she would\'ve taken further steps. Had this teacher said stuff to me like these teachers in Maine \"allegedly\" said to the military kids I guarentee you action would have been taken by my mom. This happened 50 yrs ago, and I still remember my mom sticking up for me and us by going to that teacher. I was and still am so proud of her for that, and I learned from her \"to stand up for yourself\", and I did the same thing with our 2 kids when they were children, and taught our children the same. Trust me they wouldn\'t have taken crap like that from their children\'s teachers. Before you say \"how do I know that these parents didn\'t do the same\" then I say \"keep us posted, we prayed for your kids, and hope these \"teachers\" get justice, don\'t play it down by saying \"the media made a big deal out of it\". Retired Paratrooper, I agree with you. Hooah!!','2003-03-06 15:28:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(957,1,3122,'66.228.88.242','ralph phelan','ralphph@aol.com','','Barbara -\r\nWhoops! Sorry.','2003-03-06 15:32:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(958,1,3122,'208.61.111.84','Barbara','goode_p@bellsouth.net','http://maine teachers','Mr. Phelan: Apology accepted! :) :)','2003-03-06 15:53:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(959,1,3149,'213.86.90.160','jesus gil','atleticorules@yahoo.com','http://ibidem.blogmosis.com','I still can\'t get over that in so many bars you can\'t smoke - in my mind, a bar isn\'t a bar without the smoke. I blame it all on lawyers and silly lawsuits (\"I didn\'t know smoking was bad,\" is like saying you didn\'t know if you stuck you\'re finger in a light socket you\'d get shocked). ','2003-03-06 16:05:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(961,1,3147,'64.173.103.76','Emily','bamacritter@earthlink.net','','A.L.,\r\nFair question, and I\'ve answered it before. If this story were to involve a hawkish teacher telling kids that their parents were bad because they were peace activists and it was outwardly hurting these children, I would be just as outraged, as I\'m hoping everybody else here would be.\r\n\r\nI\'m also betting it would have gotten much wider coverage, but I\'m cynical like that.','2003-03-06 16:31:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(962,1,3147,'216.195.145.177','fjh','global1@gwi.net','http://www.','Actually, most of this MAY have been orchestrated nationally through:\r\no the NEA formulated lesson plans, \r\no through Brown University\'s program for social studies teachers at http://www.choices.edu/index.html and,\r\no through the National Council of Social Studies at http://www.socialstudies.org/resources/moments/.\r\n\r\nPosters should be aware that this topic has been broached in a CNN report at cnn.com.education: \r\n\r\n\"ROCKVILLE, Maryland (AP) -- Why do they hate us so much? Jenn Storck put the question to her 10th-grade government students, who were 3-year-olds the last time the United States neared a war with Iraq. They tried to imagine the mind-set of people in Saddam Hussein\'s land. \r\n\r\n\"Their government has almost brainwashed them. They think the U.S. is horrible and does all these evil things,\" said Amy Fries, 15. \"I think the Iraqi people really don\'t know what to think by now. They\'re just confused.\" \r\n\r\nBut Ross Godwin, 16, remembered the message from \"Three Kings\" -- the George Clooney movie set during the 1991 Gulf War. Most Iraqis have no beef with the United States, he said. \r\n\r\n\"Look at it from their perspective,\" Godwin said. \"We\'ve bombed them periodically throughout the last decade. We\'ve gone to war with them. We\'ve killed a lot of their people. In general, we\'ve acted like a superior nation around the world.\" \r\n\r\nAs U.S. troops mount for battle and Americans absorb terrorism warnings, schools are preparing for war, too. Weapons of mass destruction have become a forum of class instruction, resonating so strongly with students that even some teachers are surprised. \r\n\r\n\"I hear kids saying it: Will I have to go off to war?\" said Todd Wallingford, who teaches high school civics and history in a Boston suburb. \"There\'s more genuine interest in a current event than I\'ve seen in a long time, and that\'s because it\'s really relevant to these kids. 9-11 was sort of something that happened to us, and now this is something that could really involve them.\" \r\n\r\nBalancing act\r\nTeachers say their mission is to help students understand and analyze a crisis that seems to shift topic, country, channel and color code all the time. \r\n\r\n \r\nMitchell Lerner, left, and Ross Godwin, participate in a class discussion about U.S. troops preparing for battle. \r\nBut as they talk of balancing civil liberties and military might, educators have a lot to balance themselves -- weaving war into a curriculum geared toward standardized tests, preparing older students but reassuring younger ones, presenting balanced views of America\'s goals. \r\n\r\n\"It\'s a hard issue to talk about, and when you take it into the classroom, you don\'t want to push one point of view,\" said Susan Graseck of Brown University, who has overseen the creation of Iraqi-conflict lesson plans used by more than 3,000 teachers. \r\n\r\n\"That\'s not the point of public education. The point is to help them think more clearly about the issues and let them form their own opinions.\" \r\n\r\nStorck\'s advanced-placement students did not need much prodding. \r\n\r\n\"I think people are being a little hard on Bush,\" said Claire Stein, a 15-year-old in the Thomas S. Wootton High School classroom. \"He\'s sitting up there with this huge decision to make, and he\'s damned if he does and damned if he doesn\'t.\" \r\n\r\nSome students feel the same way, with school police officers nationwide warning that they are unprepared for terrorism and parents stockpiling emergency supplies. \r\n\r\n\"We don\'t really understand. They\'re making contingency plans, but what are they doing?\" said Mitchell Lerner, 16. \"We weren\'t alive during the Cold War threat, so we don\'t know how real it really is.\" \r\n\r\nIt is real enough for some students to see a human face in this conflict -- their own, or at least those of their older siblings and friends. \r\n\r\n\"A lot of us have friends who are 18,\" said Miriam Yavener, 15. \"If the draft gets reinstated, life could change a lot.\" \r\n\r\nNeutral approach\r\nIt is important for students to understand those costs of war, including death tolls on all sides, said James McGrath Morris, who teaches social studies in Springfield, Virginia. \r\n\r\nMorris helped create a national curriculum on the September 11 attacks, from a historical perspective. \r\n\r\n\"I want them to focus on the politics and the government, on who makes decisions,\" Morris said. \"I want them to see that the power of the presidency grows in these moments and doesn\'t always shrink after. It\'s an opportunity to help create better citizens.\" \r\n\r\n \r\nMiriam Yavener, 15, said she is worried about the United States reinstating the draft. \r\nBut what message to send? This lesson is not in a textbook, and the same flexibility and innovation that lead to teaching success can also open educators to criticism. \r\n\r\nWhat is critical is balance, said Charles Haynes, who works with schools as a scholar for the First Amendment Center in Arlington, Virginia. \r\n\r\n\"I don\'t mean giving equal time to Saddam Hussein\'s point of view,\" Haynes said. \"But I do mean where there is debate in this country, teachers must teach that controversy. ... When they veer off to the right or the left, then a teacher has violated a trust. It doesn\'t happen visibly very often, but when that door is closed, who knows what goes on?\" \r\n\r\nIn essence, the Iraqi conflict, depicted as an extension of the war on terrorism, may reopen the same touchy debate about how teachers responded to the September 11 anniversary. \r\n\r\nTeachers have an obligation to do more than elicit debate among students, said Chester Finn, president of the Thomas B. Fordham Foundation, an education reform group. They must also help them understand why American values are worth defending even in war, he said. \r\n\r\n\"There\'s a fine line between helping kids understand and telling them what to think, and good teachers do a good job on that line,\" Finn said. \"But on matters of profound national interest, I don\'t think it\'s a sin to slip a little over the line, to tell them this is a better country than most and democracy is better than anything most people have tried.\" \r\n\r\nConflict curriculum\r\nWhat is taught may reflect as much about a region as anything else. \r\n\r\nIn the San Francisco Bay area, school boards in at least three districts passed resolutions encouraging school debate about the causes and consequences of war. (cut)\"','2003-03-06 16:59:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(963,1,3147,'208.61.111.84','Retired Vietnam Veteran','goode_p@bellsouth.net','http://military kids','Emily: I agree with you, I too would be just as outraged, and I guarentee you this would\'ve gotten much wider coverage. Had it been kids of \"gay\" parents watch out here comes Rosie O\'Donald, kids of minorities watch out here comes Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson, the NAACP, and RIGHTFULLY so, but where is our support. Since we are on the subject Al Sharpton you want to run for president in 04 where are you on this issue? Aren\'t you supporting the minority?? The way the military, military kids and retired military get treated WE ARE IN THE MINORITY. Where is Jessie Jackson and the rest of the gang??? after all there are also \"black military children\" throughout the nation. Sharpton you want people to vote for you in 04 why are you not supporting this issue about the military kids,us and our troops? If you do make yourself heard please.','2003-03-06 17:07:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(964,1,3110,'204.91.170.3','Mo','mostafa988@yahoo.com','http://meaux.blogspot.com/','Great series so far AL. I agree with you completely on the over/underestimation of daily risks. I was reading a study (lost the link) that stated that smokers in high stress jobs live longer on average than non-smokers in high stress jobs. I\'m not sure if I buy it necessarily, but it does demonstrate that we underestimate the health impact of stress and overestimate the dangers of tobacco (or just REALLY underestimate stress). \r\n\r\nI noticed the irrationality regarding air travel after 9-11. My friends thought I was nuts to fly so soon afterwards, whereas my logic was that people were going to be more aware (and any hijackers could expect an aerial beat down), so security couldn\'t possibly be worse than before, the terrorists are just as pissed off as before and to boot tickets were cheaper. Flying was no more risky, probably less, on Sept. 15 than Sept. 5, it\'s just that we were more aware of the risk.','2003-03-06 17:23:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(965,1,3147,'208.61.111.84','courios','goode_p@bellsouth.net','http://military kids','I wonder if I am the only one thinking why is it that all these Hollywood stars who are so \"against\" this war have no problem playing a role as a soldier especially in combat (I\'m not talking abut Bruce Willis, he tried to enlist to serve his counry, but was refused because of his age). This guy for example who played on Mash is so arrogant and outraged. You might say this was/is \"fiction\" I say sorry I don\'t buy it. If you are REALLY THAT MUCH AGAINST A WAR AND THE MILITARY\" then don\'t play the role of a soldier especially in combat. Again, its ALL about money isn\'t it????????? I wish all military bases would stop showing movies with these actors in it. You never know it might will happen after all Jane Fonda was either kicked off or refused to enter Ft. Benning, GA. Later, by sitting on the enemy\'s tank and kissing up to the enemy didn\'t help her later on in life. When she was married to Turner she wanted to run for some kind of office, but the Viet Nam Vets said \"sorry Hanoi Jane no can do\" you will NOT get our support, then this traitor had the nerve to turn around and apologized saying \"she was young and didn\'t know what she was doing\" yeah right that dame knew exactly what she was doing.','2003-03-06 17:26:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(966,1,3147,'216.41.56.90','Nick','nick@holidaytheband.com','http://www.logickor.blogspot.com','I\'m with Emily et al. on this one. To your experiment A>L> I\'d like to think all reasonable and considerate people would be highly upset and outraged. \r\n\r\nBut it\'s a totally different issue about how politicians and administrators would react. Administrators are far more sensitive to the issues you present hypothetically and may take a harder stance. Also, people like O\'Reilly and Limbaugh would be busy pointing out a lack of evidence and unfounded accusations instead of decrying anti-americanism. \r\n\r\nIt\'s a question that not only needs to be put to those of us in this chatroom but to the people we looked to for information and leadership. \r\n\r\n','2003-03-06 17:45:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(967,1,3149,'204.155.16.72','Chrees','condrieu@yahoo.com','','Regarding the \"simply disband and we will have peace\" mentality... I don\'t know about your comments on Bush & Co.\'s lack of moral vision, but I have seen a lot lately from one side of the war argument that bemoans the fact that we have squandered the goodwill generated in other countries\' response to 9/11. It took a while for the vapidity and meanness of this comment to sink in. \r\n\r\nThe only way these people can view 9/11 is that other countries were nicer to us. Ignore the fact that 3,000 people died. Ignore the evil behind the acts themselves. Ignore the implications the people out there that want to do more acts like this (in the U.S. and elsewhere). Ignore the incredibly positive outcomes in Afghanistan. Ignore ALL of this and focus instead on our government refusing to be a victim. Focus on the fact that we are controlling our own destiny, making things better for us and the free world. Focus on other countries\' attitudes that we should just roll over and think about how we caused 9/11.\r\n\r\nIf these people wish us to wallow in victimhood and bask in the goodwill from other countries instead of taking control and determining our future, I can understand their hatred of Bush. This is moral bankruptcy of WorldCom proportions, and worse than simply morons. *shrug* My two cents and you get change...','2003-03-06 19:06:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(968,1,3149,'150.108.61.241','af','afjob@aol.com','','Kudos Chrees,\r\nI have had that same gut sentiment for a long time. No, we didn\'t squander the post 9-11 goodwill, it was, in the main, entirely anamolous and simply dissipated over time. The baseline position that many Europeans operate from is some form anti-Americanism. In the wake of 9-11 they experienced a reflexive sympathy borne of shocked horror, evidencing that are fundamentally decent people and not heartless cretins. Naturally, over time, things revert to how they were. Which is not to argue that Bush has behaved pristinely, but simply that the post 9-11 feelings was a mood swing not a seismic shift.','2003-03-06 19:44:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(969,1,3147,'208.61.111.84','Proud Retired Army','goode_p@bellsouth.net','http://maine teachers','We just read in the Washington paper that since the story broke about the military kids \"no similar incidents have since occured\" we\'re very glad about this, but oh gee of course this does not happen again right now, but it will happen again the way this is handled or lets say the way we think its handled.\r\n\r\nMaine also has \"good\" teachers no doubt, but why hasn\'t any ONE of these \"good\" teachers come out and apologized for his/her colleagues. Don\'t tell me they never heard of Joe\'s website. They could have stayed anonymous, and we are sure that Joe would\'ve posted the e-mail/e-mails.\r\n\r\nWhy haven\'t any, not one of the parents send an e-mail to Joe\'s website thanking us for our support? Joe would\'ve printed it. Now we\'re brushed off with \"the parents decided not to get the kids into it\" the Guard says \"themedia is blowing this out of proportion\". We saw the colonel on the O\'Reilly show and with all due respect O\'Reilly had to tell him what to do i.e. \"get yourself a military lawyer\" we would\'ve been 10 steps ahead of O\'Reilly before we had agreed to go on The Factor,if we had gone on The Factor for had we had all the concerns expressed now by the parents and the Guard we would\'nt have touched The Factor with a 10 foot pole.\r\n\r\nMaybe we were \"active duty\" for to long we guarentee you there would be a different follow up of this issue at Ft.Bragg, NC this post was totally \"family oriented\" when we were stationed there, and Colin Powell was the post General at the time.\r\n\r\nWe know that investigations take time, and we don\'t demand \"immediate result\", but the public is not even told whether this is/has been throughly investigated. Or \"thanks for your concern we\'re investigating these issues at this time for our children\'s sake please understand that we want to stay private and not go public anymore\", but not even that. We don\'t give a sh.. anymore. ONLY about the kids. These kids will be in our prayers, for we BELIEVE that it happened,butother than that this is the biggest B.S. follow up mess we have ever seen. It has been close to 10 days since this story broke, and now it looks like its swept under the rug.\r\n\r\nForgive us if we sound pi..ed, but I remember when my husband left for Viet Nam, and I, my 3 and 4 year old children accompanied him to the Army bus which then took the soldies to the Airport. On the way home our 2 children, especialy our son couldn\'t stop crying and asking \"where is Daddy going, where is Daddy going, I want my Daddy\". NOW I PICTURE my children 3 yrs later coming home from school and telling me/us the inflammatory remarks one of the teachers made after my husband served, fought and risked his life for people like that. \r\n\r\nForgive me if I feel like I got salt thrown in my wounds, but that hits below the belt when it comes to little innocent children.\r\n\r\nJoe, you got a great website and we found out about it through FOX,all this e-mailing will not accomplishing anything while the Guard and the parents want to forget+swipe this under the rug. The children deserve better. Don\'t be surprised if this will continue in other parts of the country. They see that nothing happened to these teachers in Maine.\r\n\r\nWe\'ll pray for these kids, but as far as going to the chat room forget it. This is B.S. the way this is followed up. Count us and our friends and family out of it. We said all we had to say.\r\n\r\nRetired Army wife \r\nRetired Viet Nam Veteran\r\n25 yrs of \"active duty\" and proud of it.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-03-06 20:17:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(970,1,3147,'141.154.250.235','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','Joe, two points.\r\n\r\nWith regard to your post about the US being the only nation able to move corps-sized formations and that somehow excusing more allied participation - not true. My job in the reserves (for 15 years) was with one of the USTRANSCOM components - which are AMC (Air), Military Sealift Command (Ocean) and Military Traffic Managment Command (land).\r\n\r\nWhile the US has by far has the largest airlift and organic sealift capacities, much of US military sealift travels by charter, often by flags of convenience. This has been done routinely for the routine deployments of units to Bosnia/Kosovo. These foreign flag (St. Vincent, etc.) RO/ROs are presumably available for charter to other countries. \r\nIf they weren\'t, I\'m sure we would be happy to lend an LMSR or two to the Netherlands or Norway for a couple of voyages or make a few C-17 flights for them.\r\nAnd anyways, wouldn\'t we settle for division-or even brigade sized formations? I know Italy and Spain have the organic capability to move forces in amphibious ships like the San Marco (It.). The truth is, except for the Brits and he Aussies, we are alone in this.\r\n\r\n(Interlude in writing -the Wife (a teacher) calls me, tells me that son (a soldier) called and said he had been sick from a flu-like reaction to smallpox vaccine, but that he has recovered. He confirms news reports his unit is going to P. Gulf)\r\n\r\nSecond, about the teachers: I guess what offends me about this whole thing is that:\r\n\r\n(1) The teachers of Maine, or at least Bangor, have been defamed by unnamed persons. \r\n\r\n(2) The story has been used by the jingoist media to discredit any questioning about the war, slam \"liberals,\" \"educationists,\" etc.\r\n\r\nLastly, to Airborne: I\'m so glad that you never met any f-ups, cry-babies or lying sacks of (s) in your 25 years of service. The 82nd must be even better than I thought. ','2003-03-06 21:19:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(971,1,3147,'208.61.111.84','82nd Airborne Retired','goode_p@bellsouth.net','http://maine teachers','Klaatu: councelor, You don\'t even get it why we were laughing. A lawyer throwing clients out of his office because he found out they were lying etc. hellooooooooo!!!!!!!! isn\'t that what lawyers are there for to defend their clients???? I don\'t know what type of lawyer you are, but with your total \"honesty and professionalism\" I wish you\'d have been OJ\'s defense attorney for OJ would not be walking and playing golf today. Where were you when the \"dream team\" needed you?????????','2003-03-06 23:31:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(972,1,3147,'65.102.144.59','Atticus','atticus@hotmail.com','','Oh for the love of our country. Are we really supposed to listen to somebody who actually thinks that lawyers are obligated to sue on behalf of _any_ lunatic who walks in the door(because they\'re \"there for to defend their clients?????\")\r\n\r\nIt\'s a shame that Larry Klayman insists as posting as a retired paratrooper.','2003-03-07 01:58:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(973,1,3147,'208.61.111.84','courios','goode_p@bellsouth.net','http://maine teachers','Atticus: That is why O.J. walked!!!!!!!!!!!!','2003-03-07 02:21:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(974,1,3147,'208.61.111.84','Retired Paratrooper','goode_p@bellsouth.net','http://military kids','Atticus: Somebody is \"posting\" as a retired paratrooper? posting? Watch out poster the real paratrooper will do a \"night jump\" on you. JUST KIDDING!','2003-03-07 03:21:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(975,1,3150,'67.200.34.131','Rebecca Robison','rrobison12987@msn.com','','How can I support Mr. Bergreen? I have become increasingly disillusioned with the trend in the Democratic Party. They seem to have been taken over by radical 60\'s hippies who find define everything American as bad. People like Mr. Bergreen and armed liberal need to take back our party!','2003-03-07 03:55:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(976,1,3149,'66.108.7.139','JSH','jhershberg@opusassociates.net','','\"It\'s mindblowingly frustrating for me personally, that as I become increasingly convinced that Bush and his Administration are mendacious and lack the real clarity of moral vision and ability to broaden and sell that vision that is required to deal with the current world situation, I become more convinced that the people who oppose his policy are morons. It doesn\'t leave me with a lot of places to stand on this.\"\r\n\r\nPerfect. Just perfect. I\'m printing it out and pasting it on the refrigerator.','2003-03-07 05:08:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(977,1,3150,'65.95.80.158','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','If it\'s \"our\" party, how about stepping in yourself and providing a bit of covering fire for our friends? Won\'t happen by magic, you know.\r\n\r\nA.L., this is indeed good news. Leaving the field of serious national security debate to the Right is not good for the republic in the long run. In the short run, it also produces poorer solutions.\r\n\r\nYou\'ve got a lot of work ahead of you. Good luck!','2003-03-07 05:09:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(978,1,3150,'204.30.139.19','Thomas J. Jackson','Swaziland2@msn.com','','The Democrats seem to refrain from any use of the military when it involves national interests. Their record is clear. The military is to be used for social experiments rather than as a fighting force. It is a meals on wheels program rather than to be used to break things and kill people. When the Democrats support a new weapons program, increase the defense budget, or stand up to a real enemy (as opposed to an ally the Dems do not cotton to) I\'ll believe the Democrat Party has changed till then its a haven for knee walking surrender monkeys like Clinton and Kerry.','2003-03-07 05:37:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(979,1,3149,'12.207.130.197','SP','karl.pedersen@attbi.com','','--lack the real clarity of moral vision and ability to broaden and sell that vision that is required to deal with the current world situation,--\r\n\r\nSo, we should just tell the ME that we\'re going to drag them kicking & screaming 1000 years into the future so they can go thru reformation and reconcile \"God\'s will\" in the Koran and the 21st century?\r\n\r\nAnd we\'re going to kill maybe millions of them in the process???\r\n\r\nJapan went to sleep believing Hirohito god, and woke up/with the stroke of a pen, Hirohito was a man. And look at what we had to do to bring that about.\r\n\r\nFor those who actually paid attention on 9/11 and thereafter, we know what we have to do. Iran\'s finally wakened up to the fact, look how long it took them. I saw that on World Link TV. A map w/Afghanistan on one side, Iraq on the other and them in the middle. \r\n\r\nPeople who are paying attention get it, we don\'t want to face what we have to do, but we get it. Sometimes things are just better left unsaid.\r\n\r\nAnd we don\'t have the muslim issue that Europe does. It\'s easier here, their cites ring Paris and are well-armed. The police won\'t go in there unless in an armored vehicle. And Denmark is getting interesting w/the Arab-European League.','2003-03-07 05:39:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(980,1,3147,'65.95.80.158','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Klaatu is right about this, at least: people don\'t always tell the truth. That\'s why any investigations need to be fair, and conducted with more principles than we usually see from Left-leaning administrators when their sacred cows are involved.\r\n\r\nAnd no, the teachers in Maine have not been defamed. Some teachers have been accused - and truth is an absolute defense against defamation. So they were only defamed if the stories aren\'t true... and you certainly can\'t know that. Your biases are showing, \"counsellor\" - and your mind remains made up.\r\n\r\nAll the stuff about seeking to stifle debate etc. is just so much b.s., so foolish it\'s not even worth addressing. It\'s fairly clear nothing will convince you, and I\'ve no inclination to bother.\r\n\r\nNow, a legitimate question: why has this become such an issue? Mostly because of the conduct of Maine officials.\r\n\r\nThe problem here is that there\'s little interest in further investigation, and never has been. Albanese, in possession of the information mentioned here since day 1, has never demanded details. Instead, he promised to issue a feeble advisory and otherwise worked to minimize the incident.\r\n\r\nBack to Jacob\'s excellent point - had administrators got on this in a serious way, there would be no story. They didn\'t. Which means the only lever for pressure is the media, and that always risks collateral damage and a media circus.\r\n\r\nIf they want a different result next time, all they have to do is handle the complaints differently. The fact that they didn\'t raised supicion - DESERVED suspicion.\r\n\r\nWhich is why \"Retired Army\" has a point here. \r\n\r\nI\'m not saying stop, give up. Yes, information on what follows with the teachers and administrators involved is important. Yes, the public deserves to know - even if it never learns their names. Yes, the education bureaucrats will refuse to give out any of that information unless placed under the most withering public spotlight, or subjected to court orders. Yes, the only way to really fix these things long term is via greater parental choice.\r\n\r\nThat\'s a pity. BUT... YES, the publicity and expressed outrage DID help. \r\n\r\nFor one thing, it established a clear deterrence value against this kind of conduct. That forces educators who might otherwise be inclined toward bias or lack of consideration soldiers\' children, and there certainly are some, to rethink the cost/benefit ratio.\r\n\r\nAs a starting point, that ain\'t half bad.','2003-03-07 05:46:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(981,1,3149,'172.156.130.59','Michael Lonie','loniem@dnc.net','','Actually we came very close to having no soldiers. Under Herbert Hoover the army was about 110,000 men, little more than the authorized strength of the treaty-limited German army (and smaller than its actual size). It was hopelessly ill-equipped, and had no combat-ready formations.\r\n\r\nThe Navy of the time was large, but considerably below the strength it could have been under the Washington Naval Limitation Treaty. Japan\'s Navy was supposed to be 60% the size of ours but actually was 80% because we did not finish building up to strength until 1940, three years after the treaty expired.\r\n\r\nThe result of this lack of military power, of course, was that the Nazis, Fascists, and Japanese marched all over without the US being able to do a damned thing to stop them. The result of US weakness and lack of political will was World War II. Happy dreams to those who think that if you abolish weapons and soldiers by the US you will get peace. Ignorant imbeciles.','2003-03-07 06:05:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(982,1,3149,'4.64.67.42','Donovan Janus','donovam@dajanus.com','','To SP:\r\n\r\nIt\'s not Denmark, it is The Netherlands (and Belgium).\r\n\r\nAnd we are not going to kill millions of people, we are going to safe millions of people. \r\n\r\nThe elite of the Middle East is already living in the 21st century (I have been to the Middle East several times, including Saudi Arabia). While the Middle Eastern culture is definitely backwards compared to our western cultures, the change will be less than you think it is. Most of the people in the Middle East can not wait for the progress (men and women). And if they decide not to, when they have the choice, so be it. But give them the choice.. there is a reason so many countries in the free world are alike!\r\n\r\nIn any case, first get your countries in Europe straight (Denmark, The Netherlands... why do people always make that mistake?) and then you may have credibility enough to comment on world issues..\r\n\r\nTill then...','2003-03-07 07:47:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(983,1,3150,'65.95.80.76','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Points worth noting. If Adil has any political views beyond dislike of Islamism, I\'m unaware of them. And yes, I did want an intelligent liberal viewpoint here on Winds of Change.NET. I asked A.L. for nominations, and when he told me he wanted to throttle back a bit I invited him outright.\r\n\r\nGlad I did.','2003-03-07 08:43:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(984,1,3147,'208.61.111.84','Retired Army Wife','goode_p@bellsouth.net','http://maine teachers','Joe: This was an EXCELLENT post, thanks for saying it like it is, and ALL YOUR SUPPORT.','2003-03-07 13:14:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(985,1,3132,'62.101.64.25','Mattia','mastitti8@icqmail.com','','they fights western for the lyfestyle and freedom they have\r\nif you let them transform you in one of them, they will win\r\nno matter how much of them you kill, death is not a problem for them. Their only aim is to change you and make you behave like they do, to demonstrate that western values are shit when westerns are under trouble.\r\nif we let them prove it, they will win','2003-03-07 13:25:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(986,1,3141,'208.6.37.9','Donna','iggy@net-change.com','','Great cartoon about the human sheilds! Loved it ','2003-03-07 14:38:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(987,1,3152,'4.46.70.60','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Dammit Joe, are you in secret correspondence with my son?? We had a very similar conversation last weekend.\r\n\r\nOK, wheels are turning...give me a day or so.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-03-07 15:35:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(988,1,3141,'208.61.111.84','B.G. in Louisville','goode_p@bellsouth.net','http://human shields','We\'re neither dems nor republicans, we\'re \"independent\" and vote for whoever we think would make a good president at that time.\r\n\r\nThis is about all the peace demonstrators and human shields out there. I know you\'ve that right to express your beliefs after all our soldiers are fighting for your and our freedom, but when it comes to taking your beliefs to Iraq that I say is way over the top. \r\n\r\nWe\'ve watched some of you demonstraitors/human shields in Iraq on TV how you\'re kissing a..with this dictator for we\'ve not seen ONE of you holding up a sign saying for example \"Saddam disarm\", because you know for damn sure that Saddam would not allow this, and you know of the consequences. We saw you human shields practically running away with this disappointed smirk on your faces. Can\'t you see that Saddam doesn\'t care about you at all?? You wanted to go to hospitals etc., but the butcher of Baghdad refused to let you, (hellooooooo why does that surprise us)??and wanted to put you in front of oil fields, and you ran. Did the fire in hell\'s kitchen get to hot?? Keep in mind that our troops will fight in this hell\'s kitchen for as long as necessary.\r\n\r\nDirect your anger at Saddam who won\'t disarm since the last 12 yrs, and not even now. First there were no weapons of mass destruction, now all of a sudden there are over 100, and only 38 I think so far have been destroyed. He is making a fool out of us and the whole world, doesn\'t give a sh..about his own people or he would disarm or go in exile.\r\n\r\nYou\'ve a right to disagree with our president, but he is our commander in chief, and all you traitors over in Iraq are not going to change his mind for he stands up for this country and is tired of the B.S. We watched the Press Meeting last night if Bush was a \"cowboy or war monger\" he already would\'ve blown Saddam to kingdom come.\r\n\r\nP.S. Word has it on the national news that the \"traitor\" (Jihad Johnny)was roughed up in the can. Poor Baby he got a few bruises, he is very lucky so far that this is all he got from his fellow cons for being a traitor. Don\'t bother to reply with \"he deserves to be treated humane\" etc. Jihad Johnny should\'ve thought about this when fighting with the enemy. Just think what Saddam would\'ve done with him had he done that to the butcher. I don\'t think I\'ve to draw you a picture, the slammer where Jihad Johnny is taking up residence for the next 20 yrs is \"milk and cookies\" compared to what Saddam would do. For example how about an \"acid bath\" that is how Saddam treats his traitors, and that is what the human shields over there are kissing up to.','2003-03-07 16:37:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(989,1,3153,'207.245.113.120','Undertoad','undertoad@cellar.org','http://cellar.org','The thread in this link has pointers to two stories about the northern African/Arabic culture arriving in various European nations and causing an increase in rapes and brutality on girls.\r\n\r\nIt becomes clear that the euros are avoiding addressing the issue entirely, in the name of cultural sensitivity, creating ghetto areas where the basic rule of law is not in effect.\r\n\r\n','2003-03-07 17:43:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(990,1,3153,'207.245.113.120','Undertoad','undertoad@cellar.org','http://cellar.org','Oh yes, the link. Sorry.\r\n\r\nhttp://cellar.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2928','2003-03-07 17:43:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(991,1,3154,'204.155.16.72','Chrees','condrieu@yahoo.com','','If France does indeed try to raise a trade wall, it will be extremely interesting to see whether those \"not yet in the family\" choose to join or not. I think they have already made it clear whose support they enjoy more...','2003-03-07 17:52:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(992,1,3154,'68.35.34.144','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','But it won\'t be overt \"Anti American Trade Policies\". It will be incremental regulations which will cause US food products to rot on the docks or machinery or software to \"not meet EU specifications\". Smoot-Hawley, move on over.','2003-03-07 19:07:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(993,1,3151,'68.35.34.144','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','Agree with Gaffney, although 0 Northern Front = $0 Payola this time round. But there is always the future and we simply cannot estrange the Turks so that they unilaterally occupy a huge chunk of Kurdistan.','2003-03-07 19:09:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(994,1,3154,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','The French are already on notice that the EU is changing. They backed off from their threat to veto the new members upon being warned that an alternate EU could be formed without them or Germany. They won\'t be able to get even the current EU to do this.','2003-03-07 19:37:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(995,1,3152,'65.95.80.236','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Good grief, A.L., you\'re not expected to unveil a whole strategic plan in a day. One country, one post is fine.\r\n\r\nAnd why do it alone? Notify Joshua Marshall, CalPundit, Dean Esmay, Newsrack, Amygdala, PR of Seabrook, The Agonist et. al. I think Atrios and Demosthenes are beyond hope, but you may differ.\r\n\r\nI\'d be interested to hear a serious, positive liberal response. Nothing wrong at all with a team effort.','2003-03-07 19:37:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(996,1,3153,'65.95.80.236','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Yes, we\'ve covered that before here too. See:\r\n\r\n* \"Europe: Tolerating Intolerance\r\n\r\n* \"More on Islam, Rape & \'Multiculturalism\' \"\r\n\r\n* \"Europe: Immigration, Muslims & Backlash\"','2003-03-07 19:45:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(997,1,3153,'199.46.199.233','Sparkey','sparkey@sgtstryker.com','','\"Unbelievably good piece...\" Okay, I\'ll take that as a complement. ;-)\r\n\r\nThanks!','2003-03-07 20:02:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(998,1,3110,'12.236.106.77','roublen vesseau','roublen@yahoo.com','http://hardheads.blogspot.com/','It\'s largely, but not quite, true that flying on Sept. 15 was no more dangerous than flying on Sept. 5. If you\'ve read Robert Cialdini\'s great book \"Influence\", recall the section on the \"Werther effect\" If you haven\'t read it, then. . .do so.','2003-03-07 20:02:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(999,1,3151,'128.112.85.253','Ray','ray@princeton.edu','http://campuscgi.princeton.edu/~ray/weblog','Second Gaffney. As far as Islamic countries go, Turkey is as good as it gets right now: relatively stable, holding regular free elections, with a fundamentally pro-modern bent in its foreign and domestic policies. \r\n\r\nWe *want* Turkey to succeed; in the minds of the Islamic radicals, secular, post-Ataturk Turkey is everything they despise. Were Turkey to join the other side, it would be a wholesale rejection of the modern model by the only Muslim state ever to adopt one. \r\n\r\nTurkey is *huge*. Your average Mideast state is pint-sized by comparison; Saudi Arabia only has 20 million people or so, Israel 6 million, Jordan 3 million, Iraq 24 million, and so on. Turkey weighs in at about 70 million (the only other state of comparable size is Egypt). We cannot afford to lose the population of Turkey to the radicals, something I fear is underappreciated. \r\n\r\nFinally, we shouldn\'t forget that the Turks\' recent behavior are the early stages of an experiment in political liberalization: having asked for and gotten the military to step out of politics, we shouldn\'t ostracize them for doing, in broad brushstrokes, what we wanted them to do. Political freedoms are a new and iffy thing there -- American rejection could hurt them terribly. \r\n\r\nPatience is called for.','2003-03-07 20:12:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1000,1,3152,'199.46.199.232','Sparkey','sparkey@sgtstryker.com','','A while back my Aunt said almost exactly what A.L. wrote; however, my response was similar to Joe\'s except I challenged her, \"Your problem isn\'t with the path, your problem isn\'t with the policy, your problem isn\'t with the cost. Your problem is that it\'s a Republican Administration doing it. And with every success it has, the hole the Democrats must climb out of becomes one foot deeper.\"\r\n\r\nShe was quiet for a moment, then whispered, \"I think you may be right...\"\r\n\r\nPolitics, it appears, has trumped National Security without many even realizing where their opposition comes from. After all, Clinton had pretty good bi-partisan support when he faced down Saddam; even my Aunt supported the policy then. But now that it\'s a Republican in the Whitehouse, the opposition can\'t enjoy our nation\'s successes, because those successes bode ill for their political agenda and party. At first I thought it was an overt, conscience decision. But, I\'m starting to think it\'s much deeper emotionally.\r\n\r\nAs I write this I wonder, \"why should it surprise me?\" After all, my Aunt believes in an interventionist government and equality of outcome. These are, in my mind, essentially emotionally driven solutions for governance. Hence, it shouldn\'t surprise me that emotions drive the political machine within her heart.\r\n\r\nHence, the washyness of Democratic alternatives to Bush\'s conduct on the war. (I keep hearing pundits say, \"There are sound reason to oppose the war.\" But I have yet to hear one without a hole big enough to drive Abrams through.) Many really prefer to do it his (Bush\'s) way, but in supporting Bush on the war they fear validating him as well. They\'ve put themselves between an ideological rock and the electoral hard place. During WWII, the Republican did a pretty good job of being able to separate FDR the Commander and Chief from FDR the Democrat President. Today\'s Liberals need to learn to do the same, but that\'s a cognitive process so it\'s hard for them to do emotionally.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-03-07 20:41:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1001,1,3154,'68.65.162.44','Tim Shan','nospam@nospam.com','','As far as the \"fifth-column \"peace movement\" led by hard-core cadres\" comment goes; you might want to check out this research.\r\n\r\n*Peace Protests Organized by Socialists*','2003-03-07 20:53:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1002,1,3154,'198.26.123.36','J S Allison','johnalli@swbell.net','','Umm didn\'t Napolean try this \'continental trade embargo\' thing once before? Of course the end result was that the French became very quiet for quite a few decades following Waterloo. So perhaps it\'d be a feature, and not a bug. ','2003-03-07 21:16:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1003,1,3151,'209.210.89.145','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','I am with Hitchens on this one. The Turks just proved themselves to be unreliable allies.\r\n\r\nWe cannot allow any of their troops in northern Iraq.\r\n\r\nAnd any deal we have with them must be totally Turkish performance up front with any performance on our part afterwards.','2003-03-07 21:33:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1004,1,3152,'138.133.17.9','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Spark:\r\n\r\nIt may amuse to to find out that I was a registered Republican for much of last year; I reregistered so that I could vote for Riordan in the gubernatorial primary. I also gave a bunch of cash to a local GOP congressional candidate who I thought was a good guy, and so continue to get interesting invitations to gove $25,000 and come have dinner with the Prez.\r\n\r\nMy issue isn\'t that Bush is a GOP president, or even that he\'s a kinda evangelical conservative. It with the things I see that he\'s done which I find shortsighted and mendacious...\r\n\r\n...but I need to do better than that, and so I have something to write before the next \'Risk\' post.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-03-07 21:33:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1005,1,2938,'66.242.166.11','Bill Mosley','bilmo9@yahoo.com','','Please le us hear more from Bill Tierney','2003-03-07 21:45:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1006,1,3147,'208.61.111.84','Barbara in Louisville','goode_p@bellsouth.net','http://maine teachers','Joe is \"fair and balanced\" like FOX is. Thanks FOX for posting Joe\'s website.\r\n\r\nFOX rocks, and so does Joe!','2003-03-07 21:47:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1007,1,3152,'209.210.89.145','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','You all should go read Walter Russle Mead\'s description of the Jeffersonian school of American foreign policy.\r\n\r\nThe bottom line with that political school is that they hate power. And the only power that is real to them -- because they can affect it -- is American power.\r\n\r\nThe fact that most Democrats and Liberals are in that value cluster means that they are only comfortable when a Democrat is President.\r\n\r\nThe result is their complete failure on foreign policy, save as a means of supporting their guy in the White House when he has to fulfill the duties of his office. That is why there was little real opposition to Haiti, Bosnia and Kosovo interventions from Democrats.\r\n\r\nIt is also why Democratic internationalists -- their Wilsonian school -- used multi-lateral institutions to project American power. It was the only means they had to American exercise power while hiding it from their own political base.','2003-03-07 21:59:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1008,1,3154,'172.182.41.148','Philip Chaston','ChstnPhil@aol.com','http://www.airstripone.blogspot.com','The distinction between \'Old\' and \'New\' Europe within the European Union is not as clearcut as the blogosphere has tried to describe over the last few weeks.\r\n\r\nThere is an almost schizophrenic quality to the meetings within the European Union. On issues of military integration or supporting Franco-German proposals for restructuring the EU, Britain, Spain and Italy have all made supportive noises over the last few days.\r\n\r\n*Blair and Aznar\'s statement* is the most important of these, unreported in most of the mainstream media.\r\n\r\nUS radar needs to pick up on the European integration process. The Bush administration certainly has. The blogosphere hasn\'t, as yet, because the countries are artificially divorcing tissue of Iraq from the process of integration.\r\n\r\nThis is a bad move. They are not adapting to strategic changes and are providing france with greater influence than she deserves.','2003-03-07 22:15:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1009,1,3102,'209.182.110.68','Diane','Artistplace5@yahoo.com','','I am the wife of an activated reservist who is deployed overseas with an 8 year old son. I know that if this happend to me, I would have to be restrained in order to avoid a physical confrontation. I would also make the incident public knowledge.\r\nLucky for me, my sons teacher is the wife of a retired Navy Commander. She has been most helpful as most teachers are. This group of minions that call themselves teachers are a small minority.\r\n','2003-03-07 22:38:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1010,1,3154,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','Phil, the Earth continues to rotate on its axis even if the blogosphere is uncertain as to the mechanics of rotation.','2003-03-07 23:06:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1011,1,3102,'208.61.111.84','Barbara','goodeguy@att.net','http://maine teachers','Diane: You go girl. We women have to stick up for our kids. I wouldn\'t be surprised if we will hear things like \"the teacher had PMS, and therefore didn\'t know what she was saying\" if a male teacher \"he was deciding whether he should go see his physician for a sample of Viagra. Or lets give them therapy, and find out what childhood they had, lets get to the root of this problem\". I can hear this b.s. already. Slap on the back, and to hell with these poor kids.','2003-03-07 23:43:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1012,1,3154,'172.182.38.146','Philip Chaston','ChstnPhil@aol.com','http://www.airstripone.blogspot.com','Tom,\r\n\r\nNot an exact analogy as we are not dealing with reliable knowledge that can be reproduced in experimentation or measured through mathematics.\r\n\r\nIf commentators are analysing the actions of European nations, they need to take into account all sources of information. Throughout this Iraqi crisis, there has been no radical change in the actions of EU members, whether described as \'Old\' Europe or \'New\' Europe, in terms of integration.\r\n\r\nThe European nations are deliberately ringfencing EU integration from the pressures of the Iraqi crisis. This undermines arguments that France and Germany are looking to dominate the EU as a counterweight whilst the other nations are more accommodating to the US. All may hold differing visions about the future of the EU but they are allied in their approach to the European Constitution.\r\n\r\nA European Union that perceives its role as a counterweight to the United States, swallows up pro-American nations and is dominated by those who subscribe to an anti-American ideology is still a distinct possibility.','2003-03-08 00:34:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1013,1,3152,'63.251.172.57','Sparkey','sparkey@sgtstryker.com','','A.L.,\r\n\r\nActually it does amuse me. You reregistered Repub. to vote for a self-proclaimed Rino (Republican In Name Only). \r\n\r\nBut you are not necessarily the point (my Aunt and many other Libs are). \r\n\r\n\"It with the things I see that he\'s done which I find shortsighted and mendacious...\r\n\r\n...but I need to do better than that, and so I have something to write before the next \'Risk\' post.\"\r\n\r\nYou see, the first part is basicly emotional, you feel something is not right. In the second part you admit that you just can\'t quite put your finger on it. \r\n\r\nUnderstand, I\'m not slamming you, that you intend \"to do better...\" in quantifying your thoughts speaks highly of you and your willingness to think through your position. I\'d say 90% of humans in general don\'t do that; thus, you\'re at the top of the intellectual heap. Also note, that I\'m not saying that just because you\'ve come to support positions I do. I respect anyone who holds positions different from mine when they can back it up with reasoned thought. However, I will admit, I am impaticent with fools. And that, you are light-years away from.','2003-03-08 01:19:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1014,1,3154,'65.95.80.236','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','See also *Arnold Kling\'s brief thoughts on this issue*, from an economics perspective.','2003-03-08 04:41:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1015,1,3153,'209.242.24.195','Phillip J. Birmingham','phillip@bigscary.com','','\"Anti-liberation?\"\r\n\r\nDoes that make you \"pro-death-by-shock-and-awe?\"\r\n\r\nSeriously, what do the labels help?','2003-03-08 06:19:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1016,1,3155,'68.42.45.208','Dean Esmay','dean@deanesmay.com','http://www.deanesmay.com','I started a project like this some time ago, to regularly mention good things about Islam. I ran out ot steam, although not out of good things to say. I\'m glad you haven\'t run out of steam.','2003-03-08 10:56:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1017,1,3141,'208.61.111.84','Retired Paratrooper','goode_p@bellsouth.net','http://demonstraitors','All you demonstrators out there please don\'t say that you also don\'t want our soldiers to go to war instead SUPPORT OUR TROOPS. Our soldiers signed up voluntarely, and are intelligent enough to know that they signed up with the military and not with the Scouts. They\'re intelligent enough to know that all the maneuvers, and exercises the military has during peace time is primarely to prepare in case of a war, if you\'re long enough in the military you will know that there is always a war around the corner sooner or later, (I know and fought in Vietnam), and that this is not \"playing soldier\". Our soldiers know that they as a soldier have a job to do, and that is to serve, defend, and fight for our country. That is the job description of a soldier.\r\n\r\nShow some respect for these brave and proud soldiers who signed up for this, were not drafted, and did not run to Canada like a bunch of traitor wimps did 30 yrs ago. \r\n\r\nI wonder how many of these demonstrators really demonstrate because deep down that is what they believe in or how many demonstrate because they know they could never take the hardship, and are shaking in their boots that the draft will be re-instated. If the latter is the case I suggest you better start shaking real strong for I smell a draft sooner or later and this time Carter is not there to rescue you. HOOAH!\r\n\r\nOur soldiers are tuned into FOX on a daily basis over in Kuwait how in the hell do you think it makes these soldiers feel watching you people, not to mention the human shields who went to Iraq\r\nto kiss butt with Saddam only to be kicked out so to speak. You should thank god that Bush is our president instead of Saddam, and you should show some respect for these brave people. If the draft should be re-instated I hope you showing so much disrespect to our troops will be the first one called, and then you remember your behavior while you are shitting in your pants. ','2003-03-08 14:54:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1018,1,3102,'209.182.110.68','Diane','artistplace5@yahoo.com','','Thanks Barbara.....It is hard enough as it is to loose a spouse for 6 months to one year. In a time like this the parent left behind as more responsibilty then being just two parents. We struggle with our own feelings, but we have to put these on hold because the welfare of our children come first. I have many liberal friends that have their own feelings of the war, but they support our troops, they make sure that I am doing OK, and they have my son over to play with their children. There is absolutely no excuse for this type of behavior from anyone. I was shocked and outraged when I heard about this incident. I am a calm, sensative, reasonable person. However if someone deliberately hurts my child (especially an adult) those feelings turn to rage. All of us that are mothers can attest to this.\r\nThese teachers need to be held accountable for their actions and promplty dismissed at the minimum. They are suppose to be educated adults, and they need to be held accountable for their actions when they abuse an innocent child in any way, shape or form. \r\nTeachers like this are not worthy to educate our children','2003-03-08 16:26:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1019,1,3102,'208.61.111.84','Barbara','goode_p@bellsouth.net','http://maine teachers','Diane: You took the words out of my mouth. I\'ve been in your shoes. We are retired Army, and when my husband went to Viet Nam I too was left behind with 2 small children and NO family other than our 2 kids. We have to be strong as they say in the Army \"Army wife the toughest job in the Army\", this is so true, we learn real fast to stand on our own two feet, and take no crap from people prejudice toward our military or anybody for that matter. What gets me is these parents now are sweeping it under the rug by playing it off and kissing each others a..(parents+the Guard) What kind of message does that send to their kids? \"Spineless wimps\". My mother stood up for me, I stood up for our kids (they\'re both in their 30\'s now and have their own families)and they stand up for their kids. What kind of message do they send to these \"uneducated\" teachers?? Can\'t these parents realize with them being in the military they eventually will get another asignment? what if this will happen again (trust me it will, especially if the war will break out) teachers throughout the nation see that nothing is done to these so called \"teachers\" in Maine. I\'ve nothing but utter disgust for the Senators, Congressmen, Dept. of Education in Maine and the NG for letting this go to sleep now.\r\n\r\nWe urge all military and retired military as well as civilians to stay clear of Maine, don\'t vacation there, and don\'t buy/order any products from there. We can only \"urge\" people not to go to Maine and buy from there its up to the people what they decide to do. As for us and our retired military and active duty military friends, and friends of our kids all will stay clear of Maine.\r\n\r\nTo all the good people in Maine and the good teachers in Maine I say sorry direct your anger and disappointment to the people mentioned in my first paragraph.\r\n\r\nDiane, if you need any emotional support while your husband is serving this country don\'t hesitate to chat with me. We are strong women that is why our husbands are so very proud of us.\r\n\r\nP.S. I too know liberal people, and they have enough CLASS to keep their opinion to themselfes knowing that my husband fought for this country and our troops maybe have to fight soon. These teachers in Maine who harassed our kids have NO CLASS, NO SENSITIVITY, NO EDUCATION at all, and I would feel the same had children of Liberals or any body for that matter had been harassed. Child abuse is child abuse. ','2003-03-08 17:53:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1020,1,3102,'208.61.111.84','Barbara','goode_p@bellsouth.net','http://maine teachers','Joe, and all the other people in the chatroom who support the military kids. On www.google.com on the \"Teachers net chatroom\" somebody has the nerve to call us \"morons\", and suggests \"we should talk about education\" and not read these \"morons\" e-mails. \r\n\r\nI don\'t want to sound childish here for I do know that name calling also was done a lot from people supporting these military kids in Maine. Yes, we should not lower ourselfes to their level, but keep in mind these kids were harassed, and it hit hard below the belt. These teachers HAVE NOT YET COME OUT TO APOLOGIZE, because they\'re just to \"arrogant\" to do that. The NG colonel goes on the O\'Reilly show of all shows and presses our \"outrage and sympathy\" buttons, but NOTHING SO FAR HAS BEEN DONE ABOUT THIS THAT WE KNOW OF, and now somebody has the nerve to call US MORONS for sticking up for our kids? \r\n\r\nWhat I\'m afraid of is this: When it will happen again people will have doubts, maybe will not take it seriously and most of all THE MILITARY KIDS MIGHT WONT SAY ANYTHING THEIR PARENTS THIS TIME BECAUSE THEY WATCHED HOW EVERYTHING WAS PLAYED DOWN.','2003-03-08 18:19:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1021,1,3102,'208.61.111.84','Barbara','goode_p@bellsouth.net','http://maine teachers','I might did not make myself to clear in my previous post. That statement was made by a \"teacher\". You can check for yourselfes:\r\n\r\nSubject: IT WILL BE NICE WHEN WE CAN DISCUSS EDUCATION HERE AGAIN.\r\nPoster: INSTEAD OF HAVING ALL THESE MORONS SPOUTING OFF CONSTANTLY.\r\n\r\ncheck it out on http://teachers.net/states/me/topic113/3.07.03.23.13.02.html if for some reason you\'ve a problem with the above address log on to www.google.com, type \"Maine Teachers\" in the search box, and then click on the Teachersnet.Teachers Website chatroom, and look for the above poster.\r\n\r\nYou will see that immediately at least 2 teachers wanted to \"cover up\" for this poster, and you will see already the outrage which this has caused. \r\n\r\nThe teachers who are covering up for this are responding with \"fellow teacher moron\" wanting to make it look like this message was aimed at the teachers about \"education\"\r\n\r\nThese people are making total fools out of all the posters in that chatroom. Keep in mind that this chatroom has postings with at least 80% if not more postings about the military kids, and on THIS VERY website/chatroom is the above posting. Helloooooooooooo!!!!! and now they AGAIN are covering up for each other with making it look like it was aimed educationial issues..\r\n\r\nWhat gets me, and I\'d laugh if it wasn\'t so serious these are suppose to be \"educated\" ha, ha teachers. Even lets say for one minute this was really aimed at teachers other than the teacher/military kids issue how dumb can a teacher get to make a statement like that which could be easily be mistaken to mean the opposite. I can\'t wait to see how they will wiggle themselfes out of it. I showed it to family and friends, because I wanted to make sure if they see it the way I do, and all agreed with me IMMEDIATELY, and trust me my husband lets me know if and when I\'m wrong.\r\n\r\nNot only were our military kids insulted, it doesn\'t stop here now they have to insult parents of military kids, and all the other people who support the military kids.\r\n','2003-03-08 23:40:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1022,1,3102,'208.61.111.84','B.G. in Louisville','goode_p@bellsouth.net','http://maine teachers','I checked the www.google.com, and its interesting that teachers despite all this still make inflammatory remarks. Read the post \"What If\" by Georgia Hedrick. In her 3rd paragraph she mentions 7 year olds MAKE STUFF UP ALL THE TIME. Her last sentence in the last paragraph she states \"They are taught that fighting is wrong (little kids)except in self defense and yet, off go their parents to fight-not to defend, but to attack. Sad, scarey.\r\n\r\nBefore anybody wants to shoot off about this and side with her I say she has got a right to her opinion and its a free country, but with all the mess the NG colonel going on the O\'Reilly show, and therefore exposing these prejudice teachers yet here comes this dame, and just keeps on with her remarks, and there are other remarks by other teachers for example A CHILD SHOULD NOT GET AN \"EXCUSED\" ABSENCE BECAUSE THE FATHER IS GOING OFF TO SERVE\" \"SOMETHING HE SIGNED UP FOR\". Excused absences are only for Funerals, Illnesses etc. and on and on. Even now with all this mess which the public has not been told what really happened they keep on doing it.\r\n\r\nFor the dame who was shooting off about the parents going off to \"fight\" and not \"defend\" etc. don\'t people like that realize that Teenage children of these soldiers might be reading this?? \r\n\r\nTo sum it all up the more I read these teachers responses the more I see their prejudice toward the military, and the more I believe that all this really happened. BTW I wanted to send a posting, and a message comes up saying something like \"we have to review your message first before posting\" keep in mind THIS MESSAGE BY GEORGIA HENDRICK WAS REVIEWED AND POSTED despite her remarks.','2003-03-09 14:44:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1023,1,3157,'63.187.232.12','Steve Ramsey','rivitman@yahoo.com','http://www.domin8air.com/alo3/weblog/strike.html','These cases do indicate something is horribly wrong at the Air Force Academy.\r\nThey do not indicate untrustworthyness or criminality with the entire branch of the service.\r\n\r\nThis investigation is by no means complete. \r\nFind those responable and punish them severely.\r\nFind those who created an maintained an atmosphere where this could happen and punish them. Severely.\r\n\r\nFind those who had knowledge of this and failed to report it and punish them.\r\n\r\nMake whatever attempts at healing and restitution can be made for the victims.\r\n\r\nThereafter, and in the meantime, let the Academy get on with it\'s mission, in realization that not all male cadets are sexual predators, and are fully worthy of the uniform and our trust.','2003-03-09 14:55:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1024,1,3152,'68.42.48.154','Ara Rubyan','ara@rubyan.com','http://www.rubyan.com/politics','I guess you could call me a liberal hawk. To be blunt, Saddam must be crushed. But I think that will be the easy part. It\'s the aftermath that has me concerned.\r\n\r\nHere\'s the thing -- unemployment was up again last month. Over 300 thousand jobs were dumped out of the economy, the most since 9/11. The markets are at a 6-month low. The US Congressional Budget Office estimates that the President\'s budget would produce a string of federal deficits over the coming decade totalling $1.82-trillion (with a \'T\'). \r\n\r\nWhy isn\'t the administration talking about the possible impact of the war on our economy? Why isn\'t the media bringing this up? \r\n\r\nAt last week\'s press conference only a couple of questions related to the economy. When he was asked what a war with Iraq might do to the U.S. economy, Mr. Bush answered back: \"The price of doing nothing exceeds the price of taking action.\" \r\n\r\nWell, then, I certainly hope he\'s right. Saddam must be crushed. Did I already say that? Right.\r\n\r\nBut have we, the people, considered the aftermath of the war? Have we made an informed decision about the war based on the long term sacrifices that we\'ll be forced to make? \r\n\r\nThat\'s the context of Tom Friedman\'s recent comments: \r\n\r\nFriedman: \"Mr. Bush talks only about why it\'s right to dismantle the bad Iraq, not what it will take to rebuild a decent Iraq -- a distant land, the size of California, divided like Yugoslavia. \r\n\r\n\"I believe we can help build a decent Iraq, but not alone. If we\'re alone, it will turn into a U.S. occupation and make us the target for everyone\'s frustration. \r\n\r\n\"And alone, Americans will not have the patience, manpower and energy for nation-building, which is not a sprint but a marathon.\" \r\n\r\nMaybe we, the people, are beginning to grok this. Recently, the respected Quinnipiac College poll found that by a margin of 48-44 per cent, respondents would choose a brand-X Democrat! over Mr. Bush. \r\n\r\nMore and more it seems like the administraiton has bet everything on the war in Iraq. I hope they know what they\'re doing. ','2003-03-09 16:22:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1025,1,3157,'64.171.0.149','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','Steve,\r\n\r\nIn the meantime, the Academy should be overrun by the FBI. If half of what Trent has said is true, no part of the Air Force can be trusted to clean house.\r\n\r\nTwo questions. Got a daughter? Want her to go to AFA next year?','2003-03-09 16:44:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1026,1,3157,'209.63.67.248','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','>\"They told me my daughter was a liar,\" she \r\n>said. \"They looked me in the face, a fellow \r\n>officer, a superior, and told me my daughter, \r\n>who had been raped, was a liar.\"\" \r\n\r\nSteven R,\r\n\r\nAir Force Academy administrators lying to fellow officers about their raped daughters is as low as it goes.\r\n\r\nGeneral officers at the Academy are involved with the cover ups. This makes the whole institution rotten to the core.\r\n\r\nIt should be closed and replaced with more full AFROTC scholarships.\r\n','2003-03-09 16:52:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1027,1,3157,'63.187.232.127','Steve Ramsey','rivitman@yahoo.com','http://www.domin8air.com/alo3/weblog/strike.html','ROTC is markedly inferior.\r\nMy experiences with army officers of all stipes is that the best come from the academys, and Military schools like VMI and the Citadel.\r\n\r\nYou should not underestimate these institutions.\r\n\r\nPoliticians go bad. Doctors and lawyers and ceo\'s. Cops and teachers go criminal too.\r\n\r\nThis situation can and will be corrected. This was the failing of people. Not the institution or it\'s concept.\r\n','2003-03-09 18:26:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1028,1,3157,'68.35.34.144','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','Steve: Unfortunately for the AF Academy, the institution of the Academy is the faculty and its graduates. At another academy MacArthur once gave a perceptive speech on \"Duty, Honor, Country\" which is immediately applicable in this situation.\r\n\r\nThe implications of such past actions speak not only towards how these specific cases were handled, but also about how the cadre and faculty are selected and trained themselves. If there is now a vast divergence between \"concept\" and \"reality\", it is the institution\'s fault that this has occurred, not one or two individuals, and in calling into question several of the foundations of a whole branch of service, the Academy will have to be reformed within the conceptual mission of that service, the USAF.','2003-03-09 19:09:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1029,1,3157,'63.187.232.127','Steve Ramsey','rivitman@yahoo.com','http://www.domin8air.com/alo3/weblog/strike.html','You presume that each and every faculty and cadre member had full knowledge and failed to act.\r\nThat assertion is unfounded.\r\nThere have been some damning facts established.\r\nThat is not one of them.\r\nMilitary organizations are strictly hierarchical, and split into component cells. They do not function as civilian organizations do and should not.\r\nIn fact, they work to a larger extent on trust,which makes violating that trust all the worse.\r\nBut the nature of the military\'s mission make the structure necessary. \r\nThis also means that incidents like this can happen.\r\nMy Lai Happend.\r\nThe West Point Cheating scandal happened.\r\nThe 1995 naval Academy drug scandal Happened.\r\nThe Chief of Naval ops kills himself over an award scandal.\r\n\r\nThese and more incidents make great news stories because they fly in the face of what the military is all about.\r\n\r\nFinding, punishing, and dismissing the wrongdoers, and correcting the system so that it cannot happen again is the proper course. \r\n\r\nHysteria and calling for shuttering the AF academy is not.\r\n','2003-03-09 19:40:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1030,1,3157,'208.187.23.152','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Steve R,\r\n\r\n The problem with the Air force Academy rape scandal isn\'t too much sensationalism. \r\n\r\n It has been there was too little sensationalism for too long. The rot there has festered and expanded through out the USAF as rapists with official approval graduated year after year into the ranks of the officer corps.\r\n\r\n I don\'t think you understand exactly how badly this taints the serving officer cops of the USAF.','2003-03-09 20:17:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1031,1,3157,'68.154.187.230','Boris A.Kupershmidt','maps4u@hotmail.com','','They should be renamed\r\n\"Rape Force Academy.\"\r\nIt\'s a criminal institution.','2003-03-10 01:22:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1032,1,3157,'65.128.20.213','Bob','questmuzz9@aol.com','','\"Can we entrust nuclear weapons to an institution that has rape as a primary value? That is the question Americans face with the U.S. Air Force Academy rape scandal.\"\r\n\r\nI\'m sorry, that is not how you should have opened this piece.','2003-03-10 02:24:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1033,1,3157,'12.254.8.46','Robin Roberts','finalprotfire@attbi.com','http://robinroberts.blogspot.com/','Trent, you\'ve said some very strong things here about this scandal. This is not the French Revolution we\'re talking about here, a spontaneous upsurge of popular revolt. This is a military invasion and occupation, with the democracy to be granted to the subject people, 60 percent of them Shi\'ite, to be subject to limits dictated by American interests. I attribute the current crackdown on reformist voices in Iran, like Sina Motallebi, to this colossal foreign-policy blunder by Bush and cabal. They\'ve simply set in motion once more the same conditions that gave rise to the Taliban in the first place. \r\n\r\n','2003-04-22 19:32:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2022,1,3357,'66.62.43.230','bkw','ben@fuzzygeek.com','','to: chuck(le)\r\nre: arguments / discussions\r\n\r\nwith all due respect, i\'m not certain you\'re arguing the point of A.L.\'s post : his disquiet appears to be more over his educated friend\'s immutable beliefs in \"facts\" that are provably false and his refusal to even entertain the counter-evidence and dismiss it all as lies and propaganda.\r\n\r\nnote A.L.\'s closing paragraph:\r\n I agree with Skid, on one major point: procurement dollars determine \r\nstrategic direction, rather than the other way around. In a battlefield of \r\nshrinking dollars, projects, and most importantly, opportunities, aerospace \r\nprojects are so large now that they are the victims of their own weight \r\n(remember, this is the DoD that brought you "co-opetition" because it believed, \r\nhowever short-sightedly, that fewer projects would save Taxpayer dollars, with \r\nthe outcome of reducing several viable military aerospace contractors down to \r\nthree major companies (Boeing, Northrop Grumman, and Lockheed Martin). FRY THE SPY DAYand I\'m throwing a party all day. Hey, Julius and Ethel, have a great freakin\' day! To whoever said, \"it all boils down to the price of a head of lettuce,\" I agree. It all boils down to whether we want a bunch of corporate welfare queens to increace our tax bill so they can have slightly cheaper labor costs thanks to illegal labor. The way the illegal labor market is set up currently, if you legalized all illegal immigrants in the country overnight, but made it so that they had to pay withholding, and all the other things citizens are stuck with, and didn\'t change the situation at the border, the unemployment rate among that group would go up drastically. The people using illegal labor aren\'t saving money overall, just moving their costs around. The only other thing I have to say is, it seems that different regions of the country are handling assimilation of hispanics in very different ways. \"Hispanics,\" even recent immigrants, are far from a unified bloc. I suspect this would be a very fruitful area to study if we want to better integrate these people into our society. It works fine in galeon. In lynx the whole post shows up regardless; I wish there were a url for \r\nWinds Of Change that always loaded with the complete article (with comments) so I could load up the page at the office and then go to lunch and read it there. In part of the post, the author wrote: Individualism as one of the great evils? Is this the same individualism as we mean in the west when we say individualism, or are they using it in the third world as just another word for selfishness? If so, I suspect that may be a large part of their problem to begin with. I’m interested in why our three reactions are so disparate, and it cuts to one of my significant core issues, the alienation of many of us from our society and the overt disgust with all the instruments of government. In other words, the collapse of legitimacy.\r\n\r\nI’m interested in why it is, when we correct the injustices of the past, and devise tools to ensure that it will be difficult to make the same mistakes again, we are dwelling on the “Oh, no, we were so bad” rather than the “we’re getting better”. See, I think that real liberalism…the kind that builds schools and water systems and improves people\'s lives…comes from a belief in progress.\r\n\r\nWe aren’t perfect. No one is or ever will be…to quote William Goldman, “Life is pain, Highness! Anyone who says differently is selling something.” But we can either keep trying to get there or sit on the floor dwelling on our shortcomings. Which one would you rather do, and why? A.L., one one forum I frequent the estate tax has come to be called the\r\n\"latifundia creation, consolidation, and encouragement\" tax. I know a couple\r\nacademics have turned around and said it\'s never happened, but you only have\r\nto look around at the decline of the family farm relative to the large\r\ncorporate farms to see that it is. It\'s not that I don\'t worry about social stratification, it\'s just that\r\nI\'m convinced that an estate tax, which will just be another bit of overhead\r\nto hurt small businesses a lot more than large ones (or truly rich people).\r\nI _really_ don\'t think the sort of nepotism that Bellows talks about can be\r\nfixed by abolishing the small family business. What can be done? I think that a good start would be to fix the schools. And NOT by\r\nfollowing the European example of making the schools social stratification\r\ndevices; I think there\'s too much of that already. Hold on, I\'m running out\r\nof space here... OK, I think one of the major problems we are having is that greater than\r\nhalf of a good general education is put off until college, and the college\r\nselection process, by a combination of testing and income filtering, has\r\nbecome a class stratification device. Another problem we have is that there\r\nare two different college \"experiences:\" the ones for those who study\r\nphysical sciences, and those who study the humanities or business or\r\nwhatnot. An American in the former group is likely to find himself taking\r\nundergraduate courses with foreign grad students who had better math\r\neducation in high school, not to mention their college experience back home;\r\nI\'m convinced that this is one of the big reasons over half of US college\r\nstudents studying the sciences flunk out. Anyway, by fixing the elementary and high schools, we could move a lot\r\nof the stuff that gets taught _after_ the stratification process back to \r\nhigh school, before the stratification, where it was taught in the old\r\ndays. Oh, one final note: Ayn Rand did make complaints\r\nabout nepotism in her books. I don\'t remember the\r\nexact quote verbatim, but she was worried that \r\nthose who would get rid of the \"aristocracy of\r\nmoney\" would merely replace it with the aristocracy\r\nof pull instead. While I\'m at it, why isn\'t formatting working?\r\nI\'m wrapping my paragraphs in \"paragraph\" tags,\r\nbut the line length, in lynx, still seems to be\r\nskewed. \"For a moment Peter did not understand. Then, when he saw all the other creatures start forward and heard Aslan say with a wave of his paw, \"Back! Let the Prince win his spurs,\" he did understand...\"
C.S. Lewis, \"The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.\"\r\n\r\nThanks to all who have responded so far - you have all been very helpful. I\'ve let the letter-writer know that he may find some of his answers here in the Comments section (with more to come, I trust).','2003-02-26 01:12:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(582,1,3102,'24.220.156.78','Mary Edinger','pastoredinger@earthlink.net','','This is a total digrace. These school officials should be suspended without pay and fully investigated. This is child abuse to the extreme. These children are already traumatized. They don\'t know when their parents will return. They need our full support and love and appreciation. These teachers are charged with the care of these children while they are at school. This is blatant abuse and they need to be called on it. If my child was in any one of these schools, I would be in the face of any teacher or administrator, who would dare to cross the line that has been crossed. I wouldn\'t care if my child was the target or not. It is about time that parents stood up to the tyrany of the public education system and demanded reform or else. My 23 year old son is in the Army stationed in Germany and anybody who knows me better keep their mouths shut when it comes to our troops and their families. I am outraged and would like the name of the public official who does not think this is an issue. He is fortunate I don\'t live in his town. I would be outside his house picketing right now. The time has come to draw a line in the sand with these people and say they are either with us or against us and let their own vile words convict them. Please send me the names and email addresses of schools in your area that are involved in this form of abuse. I would be more than happy to give each one a piece of my mind and I will be certain to spread the word.\r\n\r\n Thank you\r\n Mary Edinger ','2003-02-26 01:15:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(583,1,3102,'208.255.24.144','Bob Houk','bobhouk@hotmail.com','','The commissioner\'s name is Duke Albanese, and this is his email address: duke.albanese@maine.gov\r\n\r\nI just sent him an email stating that his responsibility is to ensure that any teacher found to have done such a thing have his/her certification revoked. \r\n\r\nOf course such a thing could never happen -- can you imagine the NEA\'s howling? But it is what should happen -- what WOULD happen in a private employment situation.','2003-02-26 01:15:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(584,1,3103,'66.74.192.219','Tim Henderson','forge_98@yahoo.com','','Just a nit, but the C.S. Lewis quote is actually from his essay, \"The Humanitarian Theory of Punishment\" (Res Judicatae, June 1953).','2003-02-26 01:17:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(585,1,3108,'67.121.139.202','Elliot Temple','curiblog@softhome.net','http://curi.blogspot.com/','If the kid doesn\'t like school, he shouldn\'t be forced to attend.','2003-02-26 01:53:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(586,1,3103,'65.28.99.62','Beth Donovan','bhdonovan@kc.rr.com','','I just asked my son, a high school senior at Leavenworth High School, (and son of my husband, a retired Army officer) if any of his teachers had mentioned anythin about the military or war being bad. He looked at me and said, Mom, more than half my teachers are retired military! \r\nI forgot somehow!\r\n\r\n','2003-02-26 02:00:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(587,1,3103,'68.99.115.132','Mark B.','mark@pipka.com','','Point taken, Trent. However, to let a child\'s welfare, ANY child\'s welfare, be left to this sort of assault without comment, let alone consequence, is reprehensible. This is directly and demonstrably inimical to those kids\' emotional and psychological health, to say nothing of their faith and belief in their parents\' worth and family structure. I would have no problem holding sources harmless, but to allow any individual\'s political perspective trump the emotional and psychological welfare of a single child in their care is less than contemptible. It should be criminal, and in any other context would be held so in the minds of those who are perpetrating this abomination.\r\n\r\nI have no problem with a teacher having a political opinion and expressing it, regardless of whether or not I share it (and I don\'t) -- honest and well-conceived dissent is the very bedrock of our system. However, a primary-school classroom with the children of those involved in this deployment is neither the time nor the place. Furthermore, those teachers doing this kind of thing KNOW what they\'re doing to the kids, which makes this behavior nothing more than intentionally petty and destructive.\r\n\r\nPlease rethink your position -- in this case, it REALLY is \"For The Children(TM)\"\r\n\r\n--Mark ','2003-02-26 02:09:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(588,1,3103,'216.126.204.29','sparkey','sparkey@sgtstryker.com','','Trent,\r\n\r\nI can understand the military wanting to stay low key, but that attitude encourages the problem. \r\n\r\nBy keeping \"low key\" the teachers and administrators are able to keep their jobs and don\'t suffer any consequences for their actions. \r\n\r\nIf I could, I would advise anyone whose child suffered such abuse to demand the school fire the offender immediately or the parents will go public.\r\n\r\nThe Anti-American left routinely pushes for a teacher to be fired for mentioning their religious beliefs or not believing in Darwinism. They need to learn that two can play at that game.','2003-02-26 02:15:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(589,1,3107,'216.239.184.203','Michael Lonie','loniem@dnc.net','','\"...the system depends on the integrity of the physician...\"\r\n\r\nWell, that pretty well sums it up. The system depends on an absent characteristic.','2003-02-26 02:50:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(590,1,3107,'209.242.24.224','Phillip J. Birmingham','phillip@bigscary.com','','http://www.dialogue.org.uk/euth.htm\r\n\r\n\"The Remmelink Commission also established that although it might appear that 0.8% of deaths in Holland were caused by involuntary euthanasia this figure was misleading because at least half of these had given earlier notice of their wish for euthanasia when they became terminally ill, and in almost all the rest of the cases euthanasia had been performed when the patient was too ill to make his or her wishes known but where it was believed by both the doctors and the patients\' families that euthanasia would have been the patient\'s wish if they had been able to ask for it.\'\"\r\n\r\nWhat other bits are they leaving out at the International Task Force? To hear their side of it, Dutch hospitals are full of people skulking around, a poison needle in one hand, and in the other a pillow to muffle their victims\' screams.\r\n\r\nWhat happened to the multiple studies Smith\'s NRO article alludes to? What other errors and omissions exist that I haven\'t had time to track down?','2003-02-26 02:58:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(591,1,3107,'158.252.72.165','Phil Rosenberg','philpaulette@earthlink.net','','While I do not wish anyone to be afflicted with cancer, I hope that if this \"human being\" and I use the term lightly. is ever unfortunate enough to contract cancer, that at the horribly painful end he be in the hands of a physician as \"moral\" as he is, and that the doctor says \"NO\" when he begs for death. I personally know of a person in the Netherlands who was in such a situation and there are those of us who believe that a doctor geve him a little extra morphine to \"ease the pain\" To have done otherwise would been pure torture. It is too easy to be moralistic when you are not the one screaming in agony.\r\n','2003-02-26 03:40:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(592,1,3107,'158.252.72.165','Phil Rosenberg','philpaulette@earthlink.net','','While I do not wish anyone to be afflicted with cancer, I hope that if this \"human being\" and I use the term lightly. is ever unfortunate enough to contract cancer, that at the horribly painful end he be in the hands of a physician as \"moral\" as he is, and that the doctor says \"NO\" when he begs for death. I personally know of a person in the Netherlands who was in such a situation and there are those of us who believe that a doctor geve him a little extra morphine to \"ease the pain\" To have done otherwise would been pure torture. It is too easy to be moralistic when you are not the one screaming in agony.\r\n','2003-02-26 03:41:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(593,1,3108,'64.169.131.82','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','Joe, I was quoting either Bullfinch or Shakespeare, probably the former. The phrase is attributed to King Edward III at the battle of Crecy concerning his son, the Black Prince. I\'m not suprised that C.S. Lewis cribbed it.','2003-02-26 04:02:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(594,1,3107,'64.169.131.82','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','Mr. Birmingham,\r\n\r\nAs Annoying Old Guy noted earlier, Mr. Smith reported that the Dutch \"advocate\" admitted the involuntary euthanasia statistics. I am a trial lawyer and recognize the game you are playing.\r\n\r\nMr. Telenko is quite correct that statistics falsified by self-interested governments aren\'t worth the paper they are printed on. That\'s why the Soviet Union is the world power it is today.\r\n\r\nEuropean crime statistics are equally valid. ','2003-02-26 04:11:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(595,1,3102,'65.56.90.203','Ed Nutter','eanutter@pacbell.net','','The 1st amendment applies to expressing ones opinion to other adults. Not this. Harrassing a little child like that is nothing less than child abuse. Not only should such teachers be fired, their teaching certificates should be revoked and they should be blocked from occupations that put them in proximity to children.','2003-02-26 04:23:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(596,1,3108,'64.171.3.48','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','My daughter is also encountering heavy handed anti-Americanism, anti-rationalism, anti-westernism at an American non-sectarian private school for girls in the San Francisco Bay area (there\'s only one). \r\n\r\nI have no fear for her. \r\n\r\nWhat is heart-warming is to hear how the less aware are becoming sensitive to the shrill, automatic and unthinking response of the faculty. \r\n\r\nIf you have reared your children well, they will see through the nonsense of their teachers. They always have. And if they cannot, we are lost, whatever the teachers say. \r\n\r\nBut I have never felt more confident in our youth. They shall prevail!','2003-02-26 04:39:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(597,1,3107,'209.242.24.224','Phillip J. Birmingham','phillip@bigscary.com','','Thanks for the gratuitous analysis, but I wasn\'t aware I was playing a game. I thought I was pointing out that Mr. Smith omits facts that damage his case, and thereby damages his credibility. The \"admission\" comes solely to us through Mr. Smith. Given that he saw fit, through ignorance or deception, to leave out a bit of the Remmelink report that weakened his case, while using more favorable parts in support, you can see that I do not consider him what you lawyers might call a reliable witness. His obvious motive for overstating the Dutch situation aside, there is a strong possibility that an American lawyer and a Dutch physician might have differing grasp of whatever mutual language they were speaking. Or maybe the Dutch person thought that the details Smith leaves out were important, while Smith did not, or was ignorant of them.\r\n\r\nI cannot speak to the worth of the Remmelink report, but it\'s where Mr. Telenko\'s figures come from as well, so if it\'s worthless, I\'d say your case just vanished, Counselor.\r\n\r\nFinally, I will point out that what can be said about self-interested governments can also be stated about groups who hope to influence domestic policy by drawing on the example of successes and failures in other countries.','2003-02-26 05:08:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(598,1,3103,'66.57.24.189','Joel','jwickham@attglobal.net','','The Maine stories told of teachers harassing the children of National Guardsmen who had been called up. These people are not transient - they are a permanent part of the community they live in. If the school boards don\'t listen to them, they won\'t listen to anyone. (Not that it would surprise me.)','2003-02-26 05:20:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(599,1,3107,'212.195.92.99','JFM','jfm2@club-internet.fr','','It is all about money. Dutch birth rates are low (specially between the real Dutch, who happen to be the richest and most prductive). They don\'t want to raise the age of retiremnt no matter what the progress of medicine and lengthening of scholarship. Of course this is absurd (think in what happens if medicine allowed people to live until 120 on average and they would still be retiring at 60). And it is finacially unsustainable. Since their welfare system is going to implode the Dutch are trying to lengthen its life by shortening people\'s lives.\r\n\r\nAnd the Europeans still have the chutzpah of accusing the Americans of being unethical people whose supreme value is money.','2003-02-26 05:31:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(600,1,3111,'12.65.54.73','Inscrutable American','inscrutableamerican@hotmail.com','http://inscrutable.news-portal.com','It\'s great that he\'s doing that.\r\n\r\nI don\'t support AA, but, I completely support what Nathan is doing. ','2003-02-26 06:11:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(601,1,3103,'12.234.188.120','Crissa','kentavr@deepthought.armory.com','http://crissa.twu.net/','Children hardly need the sort of protection that uses them for a bandstand for such awful language, Mr. Telenko. You are as much or more the criminal in this situation for voicing such awful words on hearsay, and ignoring the words of the National Guard you quoted.\r\n\r\nTo assume they are automatically guilty makes you more \'un-American\' than the \'evil\' \'left\' that you espouse.','2003-02-26 07:08:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(602,1,3097,'208.223.218.53','Jeremy','jer@connectria.com','','Why the Palestinians. Why not the Lebanese? In case you hadn\'t noticed, Lebanon is being occupied by Syria. \r\n\r\nThe fact that this is completely ignored by the left pretty much exposes their anti-semitism, I think. (Syria can also apparently kill all the Palestinians it wants, yet no one on the left complains...)\r\n\r\nMany, many other countries do the same thing as Israel, or worse, yet they get no complaints from the left. All their vitriol is aimed at Israel (and the US).\r\n\r\nPS Yes, the Palestinians do in fact have bed sheets. If you look at the demographics of the suicide bombers, most are fairly well educated. Many are in college. \r\n\r\nI remember one suicide bombing which involved a Palestinian who was a graduate student working on his master\'s degree. He was dropped off at the location by an audi sports car.\r\n\r\nSounds really opressed to me!\r\n\r\nI wish I could afford to go grad school. I wish I had an audi sports car. Yet I don\'t go blowing myself up in restaurants or shopping malls.\r\n\r\nPPS Anti semitism & the left goes way back. Hitler was the classic example. He was a very \"progressive\" ruler in terms of socialism - providing pensions and such to the people. ','2003-02-26 08:02:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(603,1,3103,'68.118.129.31','Marty','mgantt123@hotmail.com','',' If you know a child whose parent is being called up or sent overseas, give them some love and tell them you appreciate their parents service. It\'s tough on families and they need our support. You don\'t have to support the war , but please support the children.','2003-02-26 09:38:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(604,1,3102,'65.177.137.142','Samkit','plainslupe@hotmail.com','','that is just sick like kicking a kitten or something. \r\n\r\nthankfully i never had to deal with that while in school. my little town has always had good relations with the local air force base, and i NEVER heard anything nasty directed toward the military.','2003-02-26 10:00:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(605,1,3102,'208.190.214.88','John Morgan St Louis, MO','morganjc@swbell.net','','Unfortunately, this does not surprise me. We have seen the not too slow attacks on patriotism in this country for years. What does surprise me is that this has not become a national issue. Even the Left\'s Big 4 (CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS)cannot ignore something like this. The problem is, Albanese will \"cluck cluck\" over this problem, promise that something will be done, and that will be the end of it.\r\n\r\nI sincerly hope the parents of these children who have been abused are seeking legal counsel for both criminal and civil remedy. I would even hope the JAG offices on the affected military bases would take these cases, presenting them before a Federal Court, if we can get any more Federal Judges elected.\r\n\r\nAs I remember, Maine likes to tout its tourism. They\'ll never get a dime from me. ','2003-02-26 10:54:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(606,1,3103,'66.69.0.109','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Crissa,\r\n\r\n My direct experiance with public school administrators and teachers is that they lie and leave children in abusive sitations as they see fit.\r\n\r\n When my father attended a staff college in Norfolk Virginia in the late 1970\'s, the local schools were under court ordered desegrigation. The children of the officers attending this college were bussed to an inner city school in leu of local kids. Since the military kids were mostly white and they had military impact aid money attached. This was perfect from the POV of local politics.\r\n\r\n The children of military dependents were beaten almost every day by the locals, including in class with teachers present.\r\n\r\n The teachers did nothing.\r\n\r\n The school administrators did nothing.\r\n\r\n Except they both lied to parents when their kids complained. I know, I saw them do it with me. \r\n\r\n And since the military kids were there only for the six month tour their parents had at the staff college. They got away with it.\r\n\r\n If memory serves, the military wives eventually organized and got the word out such that the military built their own school for the kids to avoid the problem in the first instance.\r\n\r\n So understand, I would believe hearsay from a military member or dependent before I would believe direct testimony from a public school administrator sworn on a bible in a court of law.','2003-02-26 12:13:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(615,1,3102,'207.228.60.227','Michael Shirley','mi5.e@gbis.com','','We\'re forgetting something. In addition to emailing this bureaucrat, what we need to do is to write, not call or email since that tends to be ignored, but write our congresscritters and tell them that (a.) this behavior on the part of the State of Maine and it\'s various minions is heinous and that (b.) no bills containing any Federal pork for Maine had better pass until this crap stops. These bureaucratic drones aren\'t going to care one way or another about our complaints, but when all of the sudden their congressional delegation calls and tells them that they\'re getting hit in the budget, that might impel these guys to do something right for reasons of expediency, since we can\'t rely on them to have any concept of right and wrong.','2003-02-26 14:31:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(616,1,3103,'216.133.140.1','Aaron Williams','aaron99@rocketmail.com','','I am a former news reporter who worked for WLBZ and WVII in Bangor. I can tell you that the reporter, Alan Grover, is a Maine native and has worked in the Bangor market for both WVII and WABI for several years. And I can also assure you that is him, and his voice. \r\n\r\nThe story is also being furthered on WABI\'s web site (www.wabi.tv) and the Bangor Daily News (www.bangornews.com)','2003-02-26 14:36:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(617,1,3102,'12.163.125.193','Susan Nixon','desertsky@cyberspaces.net','','In defense of teachers, I would like to point out that the ones who would involve themselves in this kind of activity are a very small minority. Probably about the same percentage as any other profession who would denigrate the families of soldiers. The majority of us are loving, caring and overworked people who strive to give our students the very best tools for learning and growing. \r\n\r\nThose responsible for such reprehensible behavior ought to be chastised as unfeeling and ignorant. We need to be careful not to paint all professional educators this way. I know many teachers who have led campaigns to write to soldiers, send boxes of necessary supplies, make holidays cheerier, etc. Let\'s condemn what needs to be condemned, but keep a level head.','2003-02-26 14:36:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(609,1,3103,'216.77.41.249','Xiaoding','xiaoding2@mindspring.com','','What a load of BS. One see\'s no names, no evidence, nothing to support the charges. Names of the teachers please. You folks are swallowing this hook line and sinker.','2003-02-26 13:48:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(610,1,3102,'216.77.41.249','Xiaoding','xiaoding2@mindspring.com','','What a load of BS. One see\'s no names, no evidence, nothing to support the charges. Names of the teachers please. You folks are swallowing this hook line and sinker.\r\n\r\n','2003-02-26 13:49:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(611,1,3102,'63.230.177.29','Jim Hogue CMSgt USAF ret','JIM.HOGUE@VERIZON.NET','','\"What does surprise me is that this has not become a national issue. Even the Left\'s Big 4 (CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS)cannot ignore something like this.\" \r\n\r\nSadly, that\'s exactly what they are doing since it hasn\'t gotten any airtime yet. \r\n\r\nThis is one of those good example of the \"blogosphere\" keeping an issue alive until Fox or someone says \"Hey, maybe that\'s newsworthy!\"\r\n\r\nKeep up the emails people, it will be noticed.\r\n\r\nJim\r\n ','2003-02-26 13:52:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(612,1,3103,'63.230.177.29','Jim Hogue CMSgt USAF ret','JIM.HOGUE@VERIZON.NET','','Xiaoding,\r\n\r\nVideo is here: http://www.iac.net/~crawford/WABI-edited.WMV\r\n\r\nof course it could be a hoax, it\'s amazing what people can do on the internet today......\r\n\r\n','2003-02-26 14:01:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(613,1,3102,'207.172.97.1','Nuge','nugentp@erols.com','','Excellent point Xioding! Where is the smoking gun???\r\n\r\nYou know how those CBS TV affiliates are always lying to support the vast right wing agenda.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.wabi.tv/story.asp?3411\r\n\r\nGiven the anger this has spurred; might it be just a tad irresponsible to name the teachers?\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-02-26 14:10:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(614,1,3103,'65.209.114.193','Liza','liza.porteus@foxnews.com','','I am a reporter for the Fox News Channel\'s web site, Foxnews.com and am doing a story on this. I would love to speak with anyone with information or first-hand experience with this type of activity going on in schools here. Or, if you are a concerned citizen and/or teacher with any views on this, I would love to hear them. My email is liza.porteus@foxnews.com. My phone number is 212-901-4503. Thanks. ','2003-02-26 14:17:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(618,1,3102,'12.149.227.203','john h. ribe','jhribe@ainop.com','','It is reassuring to know that some people are concerened with this type of abuse, as well as the state of public education in our country. We must not sit by idilly while the fabric our country is altered completely by the \"foreign\" ideas of many in its educating class. Or, have we already gone too far down this road--cultural relativity, flexible standards of excellence, undisciplined \"bands of brothers\", etc.\r\n\r\nIt is apalling that teachers can be so crass!','2003-02-26 14:41:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(619,1,3102,'65.83.196.137','Derek Greene','gtg312a@prism.gatech.edu','http://www.muddysmind.com','This is sick yet typical. I was homeschooled for this reason, and go to a fairly conservative college now for this reason (Ga Tech.) \r\n\r\nThese teachers deserve to have the stuffing beat out of them, but unfortunately that won\'t solve the problem.\r\n\r\nThis blame America, hate America, anti-war pinko communist crowd is getting down to my last nerve! \r\n\r\nI\'m leaving for Marine Corps boot camp soon, and when I first joined I was so excited that I was telling anyone I had the opportunity to tell (I\'m still excited; but as the day I leave grows nearer, I try not to think about it lest the reality of my situation set in!) I had more than one \"person\" say things such as \"Oh, so you want to kill babies huh?\" \"Off to be a warmonger?\" \"Want to be another military loser?\" \r\nIt\'s rather disheartening.','2003-02-26 14:43:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(620,1,3103,'65.95.80.158','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net/','Here\'s some support for Trent\'s opinion of school administrators... anyone have a link to the text of that statement?\r\n\r\n\"Michael Z. Williamson\" wrote:\r\n\r\nMy old browser doesn\'t \"see\" the posting buttons. I\'ll email this to you instead. It was sent to the ME BOE\r\n\r\nThere are currently allegations that teachers are harassing children of military members, trying to teach them that their parents are \"bad\" for engaging in an issue decided by politicians, that the soldiers have no say in.\r\n\r\nCommissioner Albanese issued a statement that was effectively a blowoff. It sounded, in fact, like the kind of denial one hears when adults don\'t believe a child is being abused.\r\n\r\nLet\'s be honest: if the allegations were that children were being taught to hate people due to race, religion or sexual preference, it would be a huge issue and would have a major response. To not have that same response over these allegations indicates a bigotry and contempt for a class of people that should not be allowed to exist in any decent society.\r\n\r\nThe type of person who only follows up on complaints when it fits one\'s personal philosophy is a bigot. Commissioner Albanese is clearly such a bigot. His press release gave no indication that he\'s worried or outraged that such a situation might exist, that he intends to investigate it with any seriousness, or that he will discharge the perpetrators if the allegations are true. \r\n\r\nHis public attitude seems to be that of a \'50s Klansman in public office, faced with complaints of abuse: \"Oh, they\'re just a bunch of niggers. We\'ll look at it, but there\'s not likely any problem.\"\r\n\r\nI and my fellow Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors and Marines are not \"niggers\" or \"baby killers\" or \"right wing Fascists\" or \"peace haters\" or any other epithet casually tossed about. We follow policy set by politicians. For us not to do so would create a situation identical to 4th Century Rome, where political despotism came from who could bribe the Legions to his cause.\r\n\r\nI expect the State of Maine to take these allegations seriously. I do not advocate a witch hunt; I do advocate giving the children an honest listen and conducting an investigation. If there are in fact bigots within the system who would emotionally rape a child over actions their parents have no choice in, I do expect and demand that such teachers and administrators be removed for cause, their records noted to show that fact, and for them never to teach again.\r\n\r\nBe assured that I will be following this issue, and it will be reported globally.\r\n\r\n\"Makin\' mock o\' uniforms\r\nThat guard you while you sleep\r\nIs cheaper than them uniforms,\r\nAnd they\'re starvation-cheap...\"\r\n--Rudyard Kipling, \"Tommy\"','2003-02-26 14:44:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(621,1,3103,'205.140.116.180','William R. Manues','w_r_manues@yahoo.com','','What the HELL,where do they thing they are teaching,a madrassa.These educaters(and I use the term with a great deal of hesitation)should be fired and thier teaching certificates pulled.They should be banned from teaching for life.','2003-02-26 15:05:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(622,1,3103,'68.48.0.7','David Foster','photoncourier@yahoo.com','http://photoncourier.blogspot.com','In Hans Massaquoi\'s book \"Destined to Witness,\" he describes his experiences growing up black (African-German) in Nazi Germany. One of the most painful passages was the scene in which he is publically humiliated by a teacher because of his race.\r\n\r\nIt appears that in Maine we have teachers with an equal capacity for cruelty to defenseless children.','2003-02-26 15:16:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(623,1,3103,'205.140.116.180','edward manues','w_r_manues@yahoo.com','','I think that the teachers shouldn\"t be allowed to teach or talk about any thing that does not have to do with there subject they teach unless it\'s about the news. But thats only when the teachers don\'t act out like they did with the children. I\'m only 14 but I have conversation with my english class and teacher abut what the happening in the world like with North Korea and iraq.\r\n EDward O. manues','2003-02-26 15:29:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(624,1,3102,'198.26.120.12','Sheldon Britt','CHARLES.BRITT@DOBBINS.AF.MIL','','I\'am a Technical Sergent in the U.S. Air Force and\r\nit doesn\'t surprise me to hear this kind of crap. That\'s our tax dollars at work. Not just in Maine but in every state. Send your kids to a Government school and the only education they will\r\nrecieve is an Indoctrination. Does anyone have a contact for this particular school and a teacher\'s name? Would love to have it. ','2003-02-26 15:48:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(625,1,3102,'207.114.5.107','pete','nospam@nospam.com','','Name? Evidence other than \"they said it on TV?\" Sounds like more of this \"if you\'re against war you hate enlisted people\" bull. You want support of our troops? How about paying them a living wage? How about not cutting VA benefits? This administration talks about suppporting the troops when they mean, \"support the war.\" When it comes time to take care of the men and women whose actually do the fighting, these chicken hawks are too busy trying to give tax breaks to their golf buddies. Even my grandfather, a WWII combat veteran who voted for both 41 and 43, thinks this one is a crock. Think he hates the troops?','2003-02-26 16:38:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(626,1,3103,'4.63.163.110','Marc Curtis','webmaster@military-brats.com','http://www.military-brats.com','This is typical of those who will never understand that their freedom depends on our military. To harass children because their parents have the most important job in this country is disgusting. These teachers should be fired, and deported if these reports are true. This is a hate crime!','2003-02-26 16:46:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(627,1,3102,'65.107.76.49','Phillip J. Birmingham','phillip@bigscary.com','','Whatever your views on the conflict of Iraq this is unconscionable.\r\n\r\nAgreed. Even if you think our country is about to make a big mistake (I do) and even if you think our troops are wrong for taking part (I don\'t) there is absolutely no excuse for laying that trip on a child.','2003-02-26 16:52:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(628,1,3102,'68.102.14.118','K Wray','tbox@informationspecialists.net','','How sweet! Government paid teachers imposing political ideology on small children? Shame! Shame on the teachers, their union, the school board and elected officials at all levels! What\'s next... Hitler\'s Youth? Catch a clue, Maine... elect some officials with a sense of common decency and fire a few bad teachers! Just remember - silence connotes consent!','2003-02-26 16:54:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(629,1,3102,'12.237.75.219','Eric Hines','eehines@attbi.com','','At least as dismaying as the story itself is the long list of responses--in none of which the responder says, \"I\'m appalled, and this is what we ought to do,\" and in none of which another responder says, \"I\'m doing this; are you with me?\"\r\n\r\n\"i hope fox news picks up this story because otherwise it will be lost under a pile of....\" Well, why don\'t you help them pick up the story by pushing it to them--via several of their outlets?','2003-02-26 17:02:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(630,1,3102,'199.171.86.185','Harry','harry99usus@yahoo.com','','There is no evidence that any teacher said any such thing. No parent has complained to the school. This is simply a case of this idiot website trying to spout off the usual anti-teacher tripe.','2003-02-26 17:04:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(631,1,3102,'69.3.169.114','jojo','notlisted@hotmail.com','','What are you folks afraid of? That the children\'s questions will instill doubt in the minds of their military parents...? Oye vey! \r\n\r\nIt\'s never too late for educated people to start the process of cleansing the brainwashed minds of children who grow up on CNN and patriotic FOX drivel to teach them to QUESTION AUTHORITY. \r\n\r\nI betcha you think these here teachers are \'almost as pesky as those faggots and darkies in the army\'... ','2003-02-26 17:09:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(632,1,3103,'208.187.40.171','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Ms. Porteus,\r\n\r\n\r\n I have sent e-mails to the people involved.\r\n\r\n We will see shortly if they want to surface or keep it private.','2003-02-26 18:03:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(633,1,3103,'208.187.40.171','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Sparkey,\r\n\r\n If the folks want to surface, that is their option. I will not force it upon them. Most public school systems are all but immune from outside reality no matter the media attention. These folks know it. \r\n\r\n Besides, making that kind of noise is not something that is career enhancing, when it can be handled privately by transferring to private or home school or simply with time by moving to the next assignment.\r\n\r\n You and I both know that poor treatment of servicemen and their dependents by local communities is proverbial and a long tradition, recent, post-Vietnam, pro-military revisionism to the contrary.\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n','2003-02-26 18:20:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(634,1,3102,'66.69.30.109','DRP','rplat@mac.com','','JOJO - you say it\'s never too latet to clense the minds of the brainwashed children? You need to go peddle that trash talk on your own planet -- it won\'t sell on this one.','2003-02-26 18:24:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(635,1,3102,'66.248.25.35','Les Waldron','lwaldron@nethere.com, lwaldron@kfmb.com','','Dear Sir or Madam--\r\n\r\n I\'m one of the assignment editors at KFMB-TV news in San Diego. Obviously, in a town with so many military folk, this is an important story. We\'re interested in pursuing it, so your contact list would be helpful. I can be reached (Friday... Weds. & Thurs. are my days off) at 858-571-5155. That number rings through directly to the assignment desk, so you can \"check my bona \r\nfides\". You can also email me at lwaldron@kfmb.com. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\n\r\nLes Waldron\r\nAssignment Editor\r\nKFMB-TV','2003-02-26 18:26:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(642,1,3111,'24.43.27.16','Ted Belman','tedbel@rogers.com','http://www.israpundit.blogspot.com','This link is to a Stratfor analysis that concludes that Bush has no choice but to go to war.\r\n\r\nhttp://israpundit.blogspot.com/2003_02_01_israpundit_archive.html#90379592','2003-02-26 20:40:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(643,1,3111,'24.43.27.16','Ted Belman','tedbel@rogers.com','http://www.israpundit.blogspot.com','Stratfor article\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-02-26 20:45:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(644,1,3102,'206.148.41.6','Father Kieran Pavlick','pavlick@outdrs.net','','As a Independent Catholic Priest and Georgia National Guardsman, I find the actions of the Maine teachers to be slimy and cowardly to say the least. Children are never to be punished for the actions of ther parents. And again speaking as a Guardsman. We take an oath to preserve ,protect and defend. And as such we cannot pick OUR battles. We rely on the command structure for our orders and God to judge our actions and our hearts. \r\nGod Bless you who spoke out in defense of the children, and the Guardsmen.\r\nKieran Pavlick ','2003-02-26 20:50:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(645,1,3102,'209.254.96.100','Richard Aubrey','EAubrey103@aol.com','','It appears that the Maine Education Association\'s position--as of this morning--is they they know what they saw on the news.\r\nAnd that it\'s up to the local boards and superintendants to investigate and handle it.\r\nI\'d be interested in how much the EA will spend to defend these morons.','2003-02-26 21:18:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(646,1,3102,'134.197.62.59','Ken','norlie@unr.nevada.edu','','There is a simple solution for teachers like these. Find out their names and addresses, and publicize them via email and the Web.','2003-02-26 22:03:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(636,1,3102,'159.231.37.1','gunnar','me@privacy.net','','A one-way bus ticket to our Northern Neighbour? Thanks for nothing! We have way to many of our own idiots. We don\'t need yours as well.\r\n\r\nThe Canada I grew up to know and love is being destroyed by the Liberals, who are repeatedly voted in by the whiny cry-babies who rely on YOUR country for military defense. Then feel free to ram their wrong-headed, dumb-assed opinions down the throats of MY children in schools I pay for.\r\n\r\n','2003-02-26 18:45:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(637,1,3102,'167.76.159.30','Allen Glosson','aglosson@earthlink.net','','There\'s more today (3-26). See this article on the WABI web site: http://www.wabi.tv/story.asp?3411 and a related story in the Bangor News here: http://www.bangornews.com/editorialnews/article.cfm?ID=287700&CFID=6845318&CFTOKEN=57158855 (registration required.) Apparently, Duke Albanese wrote a letter:\r\n\r\n \"...In the letter, Albanese urged educators and other school employees to create supportive climates that are sensitive to all children. “I am asking you to remind school personnel that these are difficult times for our nation and that the families of military personnel need our sensitivity,” the commissioner wrote.\"\r\n\r\nThis little bit of fluff Albanese wrote to the superintendents would seem to be at odds with the actual statements of the General quoted in the story from WABI.','2003-02-26 19:03:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(638,1,3103,'168.28.163.78','The Sanity Inspector','chollanamdo@mindspring.com','','I\'ve been following links for awhile, and have been unable to come up with the following information: What actually happened? Who specifically said what? Specifically? Hope I am not being thick, but if someone could point me to the \"money \'graph\", I\'d appreciate it. I\'m unable to play the video clip from WABI, unfortunately.','2003-02-26 19:08:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(639,1,3103,'66.228.88.242','ralph phelan','ralphph@aol.com','','Trent:\r\n\"The current cases I am aware are from friends on military affairs mailing lists I subscribe too. Neither they nor their impacted friends wants to handle this in the public. \r\n\r\nThis is a common response from active duty military parents to this sort of thing. They and their kids have to live there after the media event is over. They don\'t want to make waves. Especially when they will be gone in a couple of years.\"\r\n\r\n(1) What can we do to support them, and make it easier for them to go public?\r\n\r\n(2) Are there any \"short timers\" (folks expecting to be moved out of town next month anyway) who might take the lead?\r\n\r\n(3) Should we be leaning on the military command structure (or Congress) to somehow give military parents better options in such situations? If so, what? Maybe some form of psuedo-vouchers?\r\n\r\n(4) From those unwilling to go public, can we at least get there stories out in \"names changed to protect the innocent\" format? [Preferably with the names of the guilty (teachers) left in. Yes it\'s dirty pool, but so is what they\'re doing. However I don\'t really expect you to do this, are you\'re a better person than I am.] At the very least I\'d like the town names left in, so we can track the geographical distribution and look for chronic offenders.\r\n\r\n(5) If those unwilling to go public give names or at least locations, maybe we can find children of non-military but patriotic folk who witnessed the event, and whose parents would be willing to apply pressure. \r\n\r\nI\'m sure many folk in these towns have no idea about this stuff, and wouldn\'t like it. Human nature being what it is I\'m not surprised the locals take financial advantage of transients just becuase they can. It\'s another thing entirely to go out of your way to insult them just for the heck of it.','2003-02-26 19:17:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(640,1,3102,'66.228.88.242','ralph phelan','ralphph@aol.com','','Susan Nixon:\r\n\"Those responsible for such reprehensible behavior ought to be chastised as unfeeling and ignorant.\"\r\n\r\nThat you think that would be sufficient shows just how bad the teaching profession really has become. They should fined, fired, and never work as teachers again.\r\n\r\nAnd if you know any teachers that act this way it\'s *your* job to see that something is done about it. If your profession is unable to clean up its own act outsiders will have to do it for you, and you may not like the methods they use.','2003-02-26 19:44:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(641,1,3113,'143.81.21.2','thefallingman','william.brooks5@us.army.mil','','Is anyone really surprised at this? These teachers are, after all, the leftover hippies who see education not as a way to prepare young minds for the reality of the future, but to initiate them into the doctrines of socialism, pacifism, anti-Americanism, and subjectivism.\r\n\r\nI went through similar stuff when I was in high school. Fortunately, I was able to question the line of drivel being forced on me. A little easy research revealed the US to be a nation of opportunity, optimism, and goodness brought about by the common belief in liberty, responsibility and morality. That is why I wear the uniform today, and that is why I am willing to fight for my nation.\r\n\r\nThese children will come out all the better once we go liberate the Iraqis. This will show the children that their parents are good, decent people. Hopefully, it will also make them question from now on the leftist doctrines to which they are about to be subjected for the next ten years.\r\n\r\nThanks for sticking up for the truth and bringing this abhorrent behavior to light.','2003-02-26 20:20:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(647,1,3102,'207.24.213.68','Bill','williammneedy@eaton.com','','To me this is very simple: The teacher that abuses the trust of my child will be very sorry for it.\r\n\r\n','2003-02-26 22:23:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(648,1,3103,'198.144.76.206','Kyle','kfarmer@greenapple.com','','It\'s 6:34 PM Eastern Standard. Brit Hume just did a piece in his nightly Grapevine segment on this issue! I don\'t know if it had anything to do with my email of this morning, but I\'ll gladly take credit for it! :-) Congrats to all who worked to get this mentioned on the Fox News Channel! Maybe now the story will pick up some steam.\r\n\r\nAs a public school teacher, I am disgraced by the behavior of these \"teachers.\" Rest assured, not all of us are pinko liberals!','2003-02-26 23:36:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(649,1,3102,'207.103.180.10','Lou Gots','bigfootsix@yahoo.com','','Most school principals and administrators are of an age with the undersigned and with Bill Clinton. The vast majority of them did not serve, and not a few of them entered the field of education as a means of evading military service. I new several contemporaries who had done so. It is not surprising that such a person would behave as described. ','2003-02-27 00:53:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(650,1,3102,'24.74.11.48','Mike Safrit','msafrit@carolina.rr.com','','I am a retired high school history teacher and a conservative Republican. I never had any use for the NEA because they were wrong on every election endorsement they ever made and on most of their ideas on everything else. Many of my students ended up in the military and many came back to visit me wearing their uniforms. They knew from being in my classes that they would get honor and respect from me whenever they saw me. The anti-war crowd suffer from a bad case of dumb, deaf, and blind. They obviously don\'t have enough intelligence to see what is at stake for this country and what we must do as a nation if we are going to survive the terror war against United States. Most anti-war Democrats were all for all of Bill Clintons\' military ventures and did not oppose his going into Kosovo without UN approval. It is not war that they oppose, it is George Bush that they hate and fear--they fear any success he might have, with foreign policy and domestic policy. So they will oppose him no matter how hypocritcal they make themselves. Teachers and school administrators harrassing children of military personnel prove Joseph Farah\'s point about government schools. He advises parents to pull their children out of these liberal, socialist dominated schools and educate them themselves. Those teachers who harrass those children need to be fired on the spot. Such abuse and disloyalty, based on obvious stupidity, must not be tolerated. I advise the parents of those children to vote with their feet. Get their children out of those schools and take over their children\'s education themselves, either at home or in good private schools which will educate instead of indoctrinate their children and treat them with respect. I recommend that they also put their children in schools that have not expelled God from their campuses and which do not teach the hoax of evolution as fact. What this country needs are educated instead of indoctrinated citizens and God-fearing citizens instead of hoodwinked atheists.','2003-02-27 01:22:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(651,1,3102,'68.154.24.48','Chris Payne Specialist Alabama Army National Guard','payn0123@bellsouth.net','','As member of the Army National Guard with a seven year old daughter and a three year old son I can not believe that teachers are being allowed to voice this kind of disturbing opinion to 7 & 9 year old children. This is the kind of propaganda that the Clinton days has spawned. Any teacher caught engaging in this kind of inappropriate behave should have there teaching license pulled so that can not containment the minds of any more kids. I heard about this on Neal Boortz this morning on my way to work. I do not know about any of you, but I will surely be voicing my opinion to the Guards Association and the Governor of Maine about these so called teachers actions.','2003-02-27 01:37:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(652,1,3102,'156.56.117.30','Xenophon','xenophon@myway.com','','Jojo wrote:\r\n\"I betcha you think these here teachers are \'almost as pesky as those faggots and darkies in the army\'... \"\r\n\r\nLeave it to an asinine lefty to reduce every situation to a question of race and/or buggery.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-02-27 02:06:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(653,1,3102,'131.216.164.63','Jason','cyberdad@hotmail.com','http://windsofchange.net/archives/003102.html','I love watching Bush-clone zealots get themselves all up in a huff over uncorroborated \"evidence\" of the far left crazies. Reminds me of the good old Vietnam days. Aren\'t there actual issues to discuss? ','2003-02-27 02:16:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(654,1,3102,'63.95.26.1','Aaron','aaronmays@hotmail.com','','\"Make haste to assure us that you at home love and support us as we love and support you; for if we find that we have poured our lives into these desert sands for nothing, beware the fury of the legions.\" A Roman Centurion writing to his Senator uncle in about 400 AD\r\nFear empire? Just keep it, libs.','2003-02-27 03:32:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(657,1,3102,'216.227.170.190','Bob Stone','bstone@adelphia.net','','I am the fellow that posted this story on Freerepublic.com at noon on Sunday. It has certainly drawn national interest. The Maine government and media have worked hard to contain it but it is spreading. World Net Daily reported this evening that the Maine National Guard has at least 12 verified reports of this abuse by teachers and that the Guard is not releaseing names for fear of teacher reprisals on the kids. This is chilling.','2003-02-27 05:15:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(656,1,3102,'142.167.35.24','Andrew','lagwolf@mac.com','http://SashaCastel.com','Well if the idiot Republican Party officials here in Maine don\'t condemn this I will. I am former young Republican Chairman for Maine and willing to talk to any and all press on this appalling story. It is sickening and I am very glad that Fox has covered it.\r\n\r\nFor more on Maine (real) opinion on this *go here*.','2003-02-27 04:04:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(658,1,3097,'207.65.178.211','Tadeusz','bonnas@djis.net','','I\'m afraid Yehudit was confusing the virtuous old notion of Tolerance(\"I\'m right, you\'re wrong, but you have my support for your freedom anyways\") with the new notion of Tolerance where we all just agree on something.\r\n\r\nMy training as a fundamentalist was very pro-Israel. Sermons mentioned the Old Testament verse stating that God would bless those who blessed Israel. Hitler was universally condemned as probably the most evil man ever short of Judas Iscariot(my Lord\'s betrayer).\r\n\r\nIf you ever end up in trouble from some wannabe Nazi\'s just run straight to your local Christian fundamentalist church. They may hand you a Roman\'s Road to Salvation tract on the way out the door to put a serious thumping on your persecutors. I would suggest you read it and seriously consider the claims put forth, but it is always your choice to make.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-02-27 05:32:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(659,1,3102,'209.131.197.76','Liz L','cybrarian22000@yahoo.com','http://cybrarian.blogspot.com','For all of our servicepeople who have been, or will be, called to the colors - in spite of all the cheap shots from simpletons and surrender weasels:\r\n\r\nGo with God (if you\'re a person of faith)\r\nGo with pride\r\nYou\'ll be in my prayers \r\n\r\nLiz L.','2003-02-27 07:17:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(660,1,3115,'205.174.22.22','Mark','m.smelser@att.net','','This is SICK! They are supposed to be educators. These people have the same mentality as those that spit on soldiers returning from Vietnam and called them baby killers. I can only hope that the parents are considering SLANDER and CHILD ABUSE law suits. We can only pray that these teachers are immediately terminated! They give good teachers a bad name. I\'ll bet Canada is looking for some poor teachers who\'s opinion nobody cares about. Please feel free to go.','2003-02-27 08:00:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(661,1,3102,'156.56.122.11','Xenophon','xenophon@myway.com','','Jason wrote: \"Reminds me of the good old Vietnam days.\"\r\n\r\nLet me amend my earlier statement. Everything in the leftoid universe is reducible to race, sex, and/or Vietnam...even if (or especially if) these have NOTHING AT ALL to do with the issue at hand.\r\n\r\nJason wrote: \"Aren\'t there actual issues to discuss? \"\r\n\r\nThere ARE issues. We ARE discussing them. I think this story has legs. The word is spreading, and people are getting pissed off about it. This issue may not push your outrage buttons, Jason, but that doesn\'t make it a NON-issue. This was enough of an issue that you found a link somewhere for this post. You came here and left a comment, did you not? It wasn\'t a useful comment, or a polite one, or one that seriously challenged the views or beliefs of anyone, but it was a comment nonetheless.','2003-02-27 11:20:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(662,1,3102,'66.38.39.85','tellio','tellio2000@yahoo.com','','I am using your posts in my class as classic examples of the use of overgeneralization and the straw man in argument. Thanks for all the help.','2003-02-27 12:09:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(663,1,3097,'24.199.127.116','crandan','crandan@the44.net','http://www.jakeneck.com','Like I said Jeremy, the left goes after any action by the US, and Israeli action is seen as directly related to US interests. In a similar way, the left has also equally attacked the genocide commited in East Timor by Indonesia. This was American supported, with around 700,000 dead - by far the worst genocide since the holocaust, and ONLY the left discusses it. Or how about the situation in Columbia? Columbia, an american supported government, and the FARC, are constant topics of demonstration among the left. Or military actions in Puerto Rico (Vieques). By attacking the actions of the Columbian government against the FARC rebels (who have used disgusting techniques for liberation), should the left be considered anti-columbian? That\'s just as ridiculous as calling the left anti-semite because they\'re critical of Israeli government policies.\r\n\r\nOh, and Hitler was as much a socialist as GW is. I don\'t know where you pulled that from. The anarchists and socialists in Germany were THE ONLY groups that straight out opposed Hitler\'s rise to power and were killed or exiled en masse because of it. (similar things happened in Russia near the end of the Boleshivik revolution by the way)','2003-02-27 13:01:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(664,1,3103,'198.26.126.13','JC','chelsey@ndak.net','','Somebody needs to forward this to FOX news agency and get these \"teachers\" removed from their positions. Reprimand, I don\'t think so, they should be fired. I challenge any school board member to stand up to this and do the right thing. ','2003-02-27 14:05:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(665,1,3103,'198.26.126.13','JC','chelsey@ndak.net','','Somebody needs to forward this to FOX news agency and get these \"teachers\" removed from their positions. Reprimand, I don\'t think so, they should be fired. I challenge any school board member to stand up to this and do the right thing. ','2003-02-27 14:05:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(666,1,3102,'152.163.189.131','John Stevens','jds1958xg@aol.com','','Ms. Faggard, as far as I\'m concerned, the left wing in this country ARE a fifth column - for ANY enemy of this country who might come along!','2003-02-27 14:09:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(667,1,3102,'4.35.131.44','Viv','silleigh@hotdang.com','','There are stupid, insensitive people on all points of the political spectrum. To turn these few examples into a diatribe aimed at the entire \"left\" (whatever that is -- check attendance at all the recent peace rallies) just shows that your intent is primarily to polarize and to fan the fire in order to spread heat rather than shed light. Do we really NEED more of this? Nope. Oh, well... at least for a little while yet, until the Bush Administration has its way, you\'re all free to speak however you choose. Maybe. \r\n ','2003-02-27 14:46:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(668,1,3102,'24.73.208.205','Kris','S Phyllis G Rhea@aol.com','','Hmmm-let\'s wonder what would happen if these Liberal rosey-glasses-wearing-dimwits heard of teachers vocally supporting war in the classroom? These tree-hugging-stick-my-head-up-my-ass-so-I-don\'t-have-to-admit-what\'s-happening screwballs refuse to realize that countries like Iraq HATE us and have NO value for human life and WILL attack if the cowards think they can get away with it. So, with that in mind, should we continue to allow these brainless babbling feel-good fanatics to put into our minds and our children\'s minds that war is naughty and we should never, ever carry a gun or have any kind of negative opinion against another person trying to kill us and that anyone in America, including illegal aliens or terrorists leading horrible acts of war on America, all have Constitutional or Civil Rights? Should we believe that they are only \"expressing themselves\" and that they have this \"right\"? These people (terrorists, etc.) do not respond to love or any other feelsy-weelsy bullshit that the Liberals spew from the cavernous holes in their stupid faces. By teaching our children to lay down all arms and love everyone and if you love everyone, why then everyone will just love you right back, is so ludicrous that these lying shit heads deserve to die at the hands of a terrorist. If it wasn\'t for the unstoppable might of the American military, these viral pods of loving Liberals would not have the freedoms they have today. It\'s nice to imagine how these blind cowards would handle losing these freedoms and privileges and it would actually be entertaining to see how they would handle such an event! The indignant attitudes displayed by Liberals (especially women) at the drop of a hat would be answered by a bullet in the head by someone like Saddam Hussein. So, yeah, let\'s just continue to teach our children how terrible it is to think about hurting another human being and lay down all our weapons and open our arms to those such as Saddam. Think about it.','2003-02-27 14:47:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(669,1,3115,'65.71.92.148','Emperor Misha I','misha@nicedoggie.net','http://nicedoggie.net/','The URLs are in this post and you\'re more than welcome to use them in any way you want.\r\n\r\nI\'ll put them up with live links as well soon.','2003-02-27 15:16:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(670,1,3115,'65.95.80.158','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net/','Mark,\r\n\r\nI\'m from Canada... no thanks!','2003-02-27 15:24:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(671,1,3115,'209.254.96.100','Richard Aubrey','EAubrey103@aol.com','','School officials were not cooperative.\r\nIs anybody surprised?','2003-02-27 15:43:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(672,1,3103,'67.82.219.135','CB','cwbramley@netscape.net','','Name names! Let the local communities and the world know who these teachers are. The verbal abuse they receive may teach them a lesson.','2003-02-27 15:51:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(673,1,3103,'67.82.219.135','CB','cwbramley@netscape.net','','Name names! Let the local communities and the world know who these teachers are. The verbal abuse they receive may teach them a lesson.','2003-02-27 15:51:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(674,1,3115,'216.98.88.40','2sees','smackcakes@yahoo.com','http://www.hippiesr4bbqing.com','You can thank the NEA and just about any weasely leftist university in the country.\r\nThese people should be tarred and feathered!\r\nIt\'s very easy to intimidate 7 and 9 year olds... good going. Just shows how \"mature\" the anti-war hypocrites are. \r\nThey won\'t battle tyrants, but they will terrorize children.\r\nJust another in a long list of reasons why parents should have the choice of where to send their children to school.\r\nI hope word gets out and that these scum-sucking low-life teachers are harrassed to no end.','2003-02-27 16:30:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(675,1,3111,'24.44.146.176','Tom Maguire','tom10023@hotmail.com','http://justoneminute.blogspot.com','N Newman did one excellent job there.','2003-02-27 16:42:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(676,1,3106,'64.12.96.104','Barry hardegree','apachetears@aol.com','','Nothing stops the elite college professors in their quest to indoctrinate the children of America on anti American values in order to make the world the way they visualize it in their own self delusional minds.\r\nFreedom of speech does not mean you can engage in child abuse in the name of your political views.','2003-02-27 17:45:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(677,1,3103,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','CB,\r\n\r\nI doubt it will be limited to verbal abuse.','2003-02-27 18:21:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(678,1,3115,'67.4.45.167','John','wonderbingo@yahoo.com','','This story is on Rush Limbaugh. And the washington times print version picked it up. I think it is going to be a big deal.','2003-02-27 18:48:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(679,1,3102,'12.82.130.245','Phil','philmurray@att.net','','To Jason, Viv and all the others who view this behavior by a number of Maine teachers as a \"non-issue\"...\r\n\r\nLet\'s just change the story to read:\r\n\"...the children were told that their parent(s) were \'bad people\' for being homosexual (or anti-war protestors, or Democrats, or black or unemployed)...\" Would you THEN, perhaps, agree that the teachers in question were acting abusively? Walk a mile in the maccasins of the children at risk. How would your feet feel?\r\n\r\nTo all the rest of you conservatives out there:\r\nWhy are YOU not a teacher in the educational system? We (as conservatives) have mostly ceded the battlefield of education to the liberals. Those teachers who have remained in the system are hopelessly outnumbered and outvoiced. The only way we will ever turn our system around is by working within it. Yes, the salary is insulting and job prestige is almost non-existant insofar as public perception is concerned. Yet, there are fewer places where you can make such a profound change in the lives and perceptions of future leaders. The Liberals have capitalized on this knowledge for decades. It\'s time for a change.\r\n\r\nThink about it, then DO something about it!','2003-02-27 18:50:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(680,1,3097,'216.234.110.242','Kevin Brehmer','michigancryptohobbyist@yahoo.com','http://none','>>February 23, 2003 04:30 AM Southern racists weren\'t silenced through peaceful persuasion.\r\n\r\n\r\nMr. Tom Holsinger,\r\n\r\nNo, peaceful persuasion did not silence southern racists. Things did not begin to change until the federal government stepped in and forced enforcement of civil rights legislation. The 1965 Voting Rights Act is still renewed by congress every seven years or so.\r\n\r\nSoutherners then only slowly accepted change. You cannot expect people to accept radical changes like this over night. This bigoted treatment of American blacks only slowly took place over a long period.\r\n','2003-02-27 19:09:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(681,1,3115,'24.62.158.103','JAE','deyadd@hotmail.com','http://weekendpundit.blogmosis.com','FOX News has picked this up as well.','2003-02-27 19:12:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(682,1,3102,'68.84.147.203','Becky','becky122@hotmail.com','','Steve wrote:\r\n<
I wish I could disagree.
Steve, so basically - besides not dealing with this scandal - your point is what? That the Navy has 100 times the honor of the Air Force?','2003-03-10 02:27:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1034,1,3157,'68.59.111.249','Larry','shamus@bellsouth.net','','\"We will not lie, steal or cheat, nor tolerate among us those who do.\" You want to scrap this? Wrong! Find ALL of the guilty, including those who perverted the honor code. Punish them. Corrupt general officers can be punished and replaced just like company and field grade officers. Shutting down the USAF Academy is absurd.','2003-03-10 03:40:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1035,1,3157,'208.187.141.201','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Steve R, Robin,\r\n\r\nYou both are aware that this scandal first erupted 10 years ago and was covered up, right? \r\n\r\nIt has gotten worse since then and has spread its poison in the last 10 graduating AFA classes.\r\n\r\nThe whole point of closing the AFA is to termininate the careers of the uniformed administrative staff. These officers are a blight on the honor of the service.\r\n\r\nAfter a gap of 3-5 years, a new AFA class can be started at Colorado Springs. One that has a uniformed administrative staff made up of of non-AFA graduate, activated reservists filling in as the AFA staff as their tour of duty.\r\n\r\nThe current AFA is to far gone to be rescued. \r\n\r\nThe only question is will the Air Force survive the \"political death of a thousands cuts\" that is coming as a result of this scandal for the USAF budget and the promotion list problems of all male AFA graduates from those classes in the eyes of Congress.\r\n\r\nJumper\'s and Roche\'s cluelessness may see the Congress refuse to promote AFA graduates to O-6 or higher rank until they get the names of every officer in the administrative staff and cadet positions of authority for those 10 years.','2003-03-10 04:38:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1036,1,3157,'64.169.130.123','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','The rape problem first came to public attention about ten years ago, i.e., it existed before then too. The Academy staff said they\'d fix it. They covered it up instead.\r\n\r\nThis has been going on for a long time. Given the staff\'s refusal to deal with it ten years ago and their actions since, Trent\'s column and suggestions are absolutely right.\r\n\r\nThose who defend the Air Force here should take another look at Trent\'s comments about the Air Force\'s future. More than the Academy\'s existence is at stake.','2003-03-10 04:57:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1037,1,3159,'65.139.29.234','Paul','wrenchmonkey@sgtstryker.com','','Just one correction:\r\n\r\nEverlast was the name of the lead singer from House of Pain, which is the name of the band that did Jump Around. Everlast also recorded an album under the name \"Whitey Ford\" on Whitey Ford Sings the Blues, which had one moderately successful song.','2003-03-10 07:42:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1038,1,3157,'216.190.145.193','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Tom,\r\n\r\nIt wasn\'t just 10 years ago. It was 20.\r\n\r\nEveryone needs to see the article at this link:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2551-2003Mar9.html\r\n\r\n\r\n\"Two decades after the rape of Tammy Jones was officially brushed aside, a spate of new cases suggests that the Air Force Academy still tends to protect male cadets who assault women -- in some cases, bringing disciplinary action against female cadets who report the attacks.\"\r\n\r\nand\r\n\r\n\"But the ethic of the squadron also involves an unspoken obligation to protect those \"brothers\" from disciplinary action. Cadets and academy officials agree that the student code of silence covers not only minor infractions such as wearing civilian clothes or underage drinking, but also sexual harassment and assault.\r\n\r\nA woman who reports an unwanted sexual approach by a man in her squadron may be viewed by her classmates as a traitor to the \"family,\" students and administrators say. Several women have dropped out of the academy because of the animosity they felt after reporting a rape.\r\n\r\nWomen who have reported recent assaults say the academy brass also seems determined to protect male cadets against the charges. Some women have been disciplined -- for offenses such as drinking or fraternizing with (dating) an upperclassman -- because of information that came out in the investigation of the assault.\"\r\n\r\n\r\nThe AFA has a culture that promotes and covers up rape of female cadets. The USAF Brass has to deal with it or they will be destroyed by it.','2003-03-10 11:05:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1039,1,3157,'65.206.92.146','G.Haubold','g.haubold@att.net','','A couple of comments come to mind. For the record, I was USAFA class of 1980 (first class with women) but left after finishing my sophomore year due to loss of pilot qualifications.\r\n\r\nFirst, there\'s no excuse for rape. None. No means no and that\'s it. And what\'s happened at the Air Force Academy is an outrage.\r\n\r\nBut a little background on the institutional mentality from my perspective may be informative. For upperclassmen, there\'s definitely a \"cooperate and graduate\" and \"get away with as much as you can\" mentality. Understand that the place is like a monastery and opportunities for any kind of reasonable entertainment are very restricted. So what you can actually get away with is pretty limited - usually just drinking in the dorms illegally, or \"racking in\" during Saturday morning training sessions or maybe sneaking a non-USAFA girlfriend in the dorm overnight. But the mentality of not reporting others for breaking rules against drinking and carousing is definitely institutionalized (and yes, sadly, that includes the honor code, as well. several times I even observed cadets lying to keep someone else who\'d lied out of trouble - and yes, because I tolerated it that made me guilty . . . . though I think I took the honor code as seriously as anyone I knew at USAFA). So that sets the stage for the beginnings of the problem.\r\n\r\nUnderstand that \"fraternization\" between upper class and doolies is forbidden. By its very nature, the relationship between upperclassmen and doolies is so unbalanced that any dating between upperclass men and doolie women is fraught with danger. I do wonder this: how many of the rapes were between male upperclass and female doolies? There is no excuse for rape, ever, and this isn\'t one . . . . it\'s more like prison guards and prisoners - legally there can BE NO CONSENSUAL SEX under any circumstances between a prison guard and a prisoner. That\'s not too far from where the upperclass-doolie relationship stands at USAFA.\r\n\r\nSo there\'s two parts to the problem: an institutional mentality to paper over small and large problems to cooperate and graduate, and the potential for male upperclassmen to act like idiots with female doolies. Totally objectionable in every case.\r\n\r\nWhile there\'s no question but that USAFA has a huge institutional problem with this issue, there\'s one minor mitigating factor to consider. Fraternization is a serious charge. The system in place correctly allows doolie women to come forward to report rape and not face charges of fraternization. That creates a small incentive for a doolie woman caught with an upperclassman to charge rape to escape the fraternization charge.\r\n\r\nLast, like everyone else I\'m sickened by the damage to the institution. For all the warts and problems while I was there, I got a lot more out of USAFA than I realized at the time. And while I saw lots of games played with important rules and with the honor code, adherence to the rules and pursuit of excellence was paid more attention to at USAFA than any place I\'ve been since.\r\n\r\n','2003-03-10 13:57:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1040,1,3160,'140.180.128.140','Ray','ray@princeton.edu','http://campuscgi.princeton.edu/~ray/weblog/','I can\'t get to the rest of the article; I get a 404 error. Is something up?','2003-03-10 15:07:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1041,1,3160,'65.95.80.236','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Works for me, Ray... no idea what\'s up.','2003-03-10 15:24:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1042,1,3157,'65.95.80.236','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Tend to agree with Bob about the opening of the piece, which says rape is seen by the entire Air Force as a good in itself... and that\'s simply not true. The rest still makes for chilling reading, though - especially if it did indeed surface 10 yeaqrs ago and nothing was done.\r\n\r\nThis is going to end a lot of careers. Some very deservedly, but many not (as in Tailhook). Once things get to this stage, however, that can\'t be helped much.\r\n\r\nGary, your points are most welcome, and add a great deal of context to the debate. Thank you for taking the time. ','2003-03-10 15:34:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1043,1,3160,'131.17.129.20','J S Allison','johnalli@swbell.net','','Ah now there\'s yet another agency that needs to do the Dodo bird thing and go extinct.','2003-03-10 16:18:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1044,1,3162,'64.152.242.39','Michael','michaelel@earthlink.net','','Huh,the ROTC at my school wore their cammo\'s because dry cleaning marine blues was so pricy.','2003-03-10 16:50:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1045,1,3106,'12.121.45.116','Ray Ables','spanishinterpreter@msn.com','','Haile Selassie believed people should fight to free themselves from subhuman bondage, but when he addressed the UN it was a call for peace. \"Peace demands the united efforts of us all. Who can forsee what spark might ignite the fuse?...We must become bigger than we have been : more courageous, greater in spirit, larger in outlook. We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations but to our fellow men within the human community.\"','2003-03-10 19:14:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1046,1,3162,'168.212.247.3','Leon','leon_likens@hotmail.com','',' Support Our Troops - Stop Irradiating Them
I too agree that we should support our troops - By not contaminating them with radioactivity from depleted uranium weapons. Why are we using DU? It is truely immoral. They will continue to kill both Iraqi civilians and US soldiers for years to come.\r\n\r\nRead more about DU >>.\r\n','2003-04-01 01:04:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1454,1,3259,'203.167.245.16','Stu','naespam@email.com','http://electroniciraq.net/news/iraqdiaries.shtml','I don\'t claim to know the truth of this either, but here are some URLs with evidence from the ground.\r\n\r\nFollowing the Bombs >>.\r\n\r\n\"... the Shallal Market area of the Al Sha’ab District of Baghdad. The bombing occurred at 1:30 PM yesterday, and I have just returned from the bombing site.\r\n\r\nSitting next to the bomb’s crater in the median are a number of car remains. Crunched, mangled, and scorched car frames give testimony to the bomb’s indiscriminate destruction. At the hospital, April and I were told that 5 people died in that attack. On the street, however, people insist the deaths reach 15 or 16. ...\"\r\n\r\nBomb Damage in Northern Baghdad >>.\r\n\r\n\"... We arrived on the main four-lane street of the Al Shaab district in Northern Baghdad this morning to witness bombing damage from two missiles that hit about 11:30am, March 26th. The two blasts resulted in two shallow craters, about 3-4 feet deep and 6 feet in diameter, one on either side of the street. It also caused damage to at least 15 cars in the street and to two and three story buildings on both sides of the street. About 35 were killed and 50 injured, all civilians. We saw twisted metal in destroyed store fronts, mangled cars along the street and burned out residential houses for a two block stretch. ...\"\r\n\r\n\'It was an outrage, an obscenity\' >>.\r\n\r\n\"... Abu Hassan and Malek Hammoud were preparing lunch for customers at the Nasser restaurant on the north side of Abu Taleb Street. The missile that killed them landed next to the westbound carriageway, its blast tearing away the front of the café and cutting the two men – the first 48, the second only 18 – to pieces. A fellow worker led me through the rubble. \"This is all that is left of them now,\" he said, holding out before me an oven pan dripping with blood. ...\"\r\n','2003-04-01 01:20:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1455,1,3254,'165.228.129.11','Mark','specmanmark@ozemail.com.au','','In response to the arguments that a time traveller should be aware of whether they would be arrested:\r\n\r\nI think the answer to this point is fairly simple: it all depends on how much research the time traveller did before he made his journey. \r\n\r\nLet\'s put ourselves in his shoes: It\'s the year 22xx, and we\'re doing some research on historical stock market movements. Researching the beginning of the 21st century, we discover that some of the most volatile - and potentially profitable - moves occurred during this time period. Given time travelling machinery has been invented, we decide to take a chance and go back to make some money, and then return to our own time.\r\n\r\nOnce we make the decision to travel, our brains step into a very focused planning process: What information do I need to take with me to profit? Well, I need to research very specific information about actual days that markets went up or down and the precise time the market movements occured. What else do I need? Perhaps a period map of the location at the time; information on clothing and customs at that time. \r\n\r\nThe point I am trying to make is that in the enthusiasm for the project and the forthcoming trip, it would be very easy to overlook researching whether you were ever caught or arrested while on your journey.\r\n\r\nThe human psyche is such that when it is excited and in planning mode for an exciting adventure, we can overlook planning for the downside, for risk management. \r\n\r\nProceeding on the assumption that this guy\'s story is true (!!!!!!!!!!), I think it is very realistic that he may have overlooked to research newspapers to see if there was any coverage of his activities at the time he planned to visit.\r\n\r\nMark\r\n(from another Great Nation, Australia)','2003-04-01 03:43:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1456,1,3262,'65.95.87.225','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Stu, depleted uranium is used as shielding AGAINST radiation in reactor cores et. al. It is in fact very NON-radioactive. You\'re basing your conclusions on junk science.','2003-04-01 04:26:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1457,1,3189,'65.95.87.225','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Actually, it stems directly from the creation itself and was something the creator did rather than something given. \r\n\r\nThing is, people who celebrate it often do so on different days. The question isn\'t \"when\'s G-d\'s Sabbath,\" but rather \"when\'s yours?\"','2003-04-01 04:29:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1458,1,3254,'24.165.229.157','time traveler','time@traveler.com','','ok, to answer the why didnt i... err ... he know he was going to get arrested thing. Obviously when you travel back in time you are going to make changes. Like a ripple in a pond the world changes with each action you take. Some changes are more subtle than others. So because the trading had not yet happened, no arrest was made. It was not until the action was taken that the reaction occured. thus only now in the future would it be possible to learn of the arrest... time is so cruel','2003-04-01 06:40:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1459,1,3239,'208.59.105.55','Joe Nathan','jnathan49@yahoo.com','','I am just as concerned about US cruise missiles\r\n Joe Nathan','2003-04-01 07:29:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1460,1,3239,'165.121.144.109','Worried','norsknight@yahoo.com','','Joe\'s right of course.\r\n\r\nBetter to be quiet for a good long time so as to survive and live through it.\r\n\r\nS is certainly smart, that is for sure. Yet being smart is only as good as long as or if one uses their smarts to stay alive and well, no matter what the cause or reason may seem to be to do otherwise.\r\n\r\nTo survive and stay alive will ensure one to be able to help in telling this war\'s and its countless victim\'s thousands of stories, as well as about its aftermath, later.\r\n\r\nTime enough for that if one (and others) allow[s] for it.\r\n\r\nTo survive will mean living long enough many years later in order to possibly write something even more meaningful and hopeful for Iraq\'s (and possibly the rest of the world\'s) future, once the multitude of dangers have passed.\r\n\r\nThis would be far better than to become yet another of its many victims. Victims who become only fodder for the ruthless machines on either side; including the all the various propaganda agents, whether of the state-run variety or the corporate mass-media type -- including those others in government and intelligence circles who help feed their appetites (and possibly even those wanna-be\'s who have until recently been curios blog readers or jealous bloggers or even supposed and trusted confidants).\r\n\r\nNo wonder some on this side of it are helping expose s so this soul becomes targeted easier by Iraq\'s current regime or even its successor.\r\n\r\nThis way they can both claim him as another victim of Iraq\'s current brutal rule and more the reason and excuse to defeat it, while at the same time making sure that s or others like them are not around to tell the world the real stories of what is truly going on.\r\n\r\nRemember it well, those fighting against Iraq at this time have as much (and will surely have even more) of a reason to get rid of people like s as those in the current regime may have.\r\n\r\nThose with a ruthless need for power and control (and, of course, they exist on every-side of this poor excuse for a vicious war) will do anything, including twisting the truth into whatever they require to fit, will always find a way to assassinate the truth-tellers of the world.\r\n\r\nThey always have and always will.\r\n\r\nOtherwise what these power-mongers actually are as well as what they really are doing would see the light of day for the true madness and cruelty it certainly is and the mad people they are should the people ever survive to write this time\'s and your people\'s true history and struggle.\r\n\r\nThis will only change when and if someone can survive to tell the world and get the word out to another and then another.\r\n\r\nFor your sake and all of us as well, please lay low and stay very quiet and off the radar screen s, please!!!\r\n\r\nWe need you to be alive and well. We can wait, so can the world. Wait until all is surely and truly safe, then wait some more.\r\n\r\nOnly that way, will there be time enough for telling what will need to be told.\r\n\r\nIn support,\r\n\r\nWorried\r\n','2003-04-01 09:21:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1461,1,3239,'165.121.144.109','Worried','norsknight@yahoo.com','','To clarify matters concerning the first sentence within my previous post, above, when I referred to \"Joe\'s being right of course\": this was meant as a reference to Joe Katzman\'s initial blog post that began this string; though I would have to add that Joe Nathan is certainly right to be \"just as concerned about US cruise missiles\" and everything else being sent that way too of course. Me too JN.\r\n','2003-04-01 10:10:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1462,1,3265,'165.121.145.9','Concerned','norsknight@yahoo.com','','It is no wonder the White House, Rummy & others trying to run this war of hype are using every tactic to have everyone focus on anything else but what really is the problem, which is closer to home than many are willing to think, let alone accept.\r\n\r\nFor those who have not come across it or otherwise already heard about it via other news services, check out the the article by Seymour Hersh published in the April 7th edition of the New Yorker Magazine that hit the news stands and online edition yesterday (Monday, March 31, 2003):\r\n\r\n*The battle between Donald Rumfeld and the Pentagon*\r\n\r\n\r\nIn other news, has anyone heard that Google bought out *Metafilter*\r\n yet?\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nAFD everyone!!!\r\n','2003-04-01 14:29:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1463,1,3265,'4.46.78.2','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','So, Concerned-\r\n\r\nGiven the actual numbers, what\'s your case that Rumsfeld was wrong?\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-04-01 14:35:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1464,1,3266,'144.183.226.2','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Suggested comment:\r\n\r\n\"No one is going to steal *OUR* kitchen sink!\"','2003-04-01 14:53:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1465,1,3266,'207.30.207.92','Kathy K','noway@dev.null','http://site-essential.com/','Write the troops:\r\n\r\nAustralian troops\r\n\r\nBritish troops\r\n','2003-04-01 16:06:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1466,1,3265,'63.166.226.84','Stephen','stephen@shadowshow.net','http://slapthemonkey.blogspot.com','I find it interesting that you point out the total number of deaths in Iraq among our troops and compare it to murders among Californians. Given that some of the deaths in Iraq can be atributed to accidents which are unrelated to actual combat the numbers look even more encouraging if only by a slight degree.','2003-04-01 16:19:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1467,1,3266,'12.167.129.89','Greg Hill','gregoryshill@comcast.net','','Damn. Beat me to it. I was gonna say: \"All that, and the kitchen sink, too!\"','2003-04-01 16:42:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1468,1,3265,'65.24.81.100','Eric','evessels@columbus.rr.com','','You know, to me it was really obvious that 40 some deaths up to now was really very good...but I like you way of explaining it and will link to this I\'m sure in my forthcoming arguments with my anti-war friends. \r\n\r\nGreat post!','2003-04-01 16:47:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1469,1,3265,'66.58.35.57','Joe','jhomza@bellatlantic.net','','Hell almost 100 died at the last great white concert alone. Not to be-little this tragedy or the value of any one life, but put it in perspective.','2003-04-01 17:39:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1470,1,3256,'80.130.166.227','nimrod','279@gmx.li','','omg, i\'m sorry if i have a different opinion but imho \"blogging\" should NOT be done because you want to be an \"succesful blogger\" but because you have something to say. if you say something important people will recognize you!!\r\n\r\ntake a step back...','2003-04-01 17:53:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1471,1,3266,'161.184.29.97','Doug','asoltoad@yahoo.com','','\"Wait mom, we almost forgot \'Sinkie\' my pet sink\"','2003-04-01 18:16:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1472,1,3265,'63.166.226.84','inkgrrl','kari@inkgrrl.com','http://www.inkgrrl.com/inkblog.htm','Thanks for a much-needed slice of perspective pie! We shall hork your praises from every mountaintop!','2003-04-01 18:44:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1473,1,3239,'159.134.49.212','Paddy','Paddymad@hotmail.com','','Hussein\'s regieme is unspeakabley evil, torturing and murdering. USA, which for so long was the hope and light to so many freedom seekers has descended to barbarianism and vileness in this illegal, unjustifiable and downright stupid war. Send Rumsfild to the front and pray for Salam Pax.\r\nWhat a name! Peace in Arabic and in Latin. Message there. Bombing Iraq to Democracy? US is now controlled by zenophobic unilateralist religous bigots whose very ignorance of the world around them endangers there own people.\r\nDid the Bush regieme ALLOW 9/11 to happe? Why appoint the Father of Lies, Henry Kissinger to investigate otherwise?\r\nPity Salam, Pity the people of Iraq. Pity America.\r\nPaddy','2003-04-01 20:30:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1474,1,3266,'204.155.16.72','Chrees','condrieu@yahoo.com','','\"I wish Rumsfeld had bothered to revamp KP duties when he modeled the faster, lighter army!\"\r\n\r\n\"We need this war like you need a sink in the desert.\"','2003-04-01 21:35:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1475,1,3265,'149.123.136.121','someone','no@one.no','','You should add in traffic deaths to the California total, as we\'re counting the (high-fatality) helicopter accidents overseas...','2003-04-01 23:45:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1476,1,3266,'66.239.48.125','Lonewacko','abuse@tolstoy.com','http://lonewacko.com/blog','re: the Uzbekistan link. As I posted there (shortly before being banned for life), I would tend to think that the current Uz. situation, while it\'s certainly not perfect, is a bit better than that decades of Soviet oppression, including forced language/name/cultural changes.','2003-04-02 05:03:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1477,1,3267,'65.95.87.225','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','I wouldn\'t bet against you. This will surely become part of the debate about women in the military - though one wonders if being tortured to death is a significantly better fate (\"Bula Bula!\" joke punchline now running through my head). \r\n\r\nI hope Ms. Lynch comes through this OK. And I hope coalition soldiers routinely stand aside and allow surviving Baathists to be massacred by the Iraqi populace... an act that would be both proper retaliation and a contribution to allied war aims.','2003-04-02 05:10:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1478,1,3265,'66.239.48.125','Lonewacko','abuse@tolstoy.com','http://lonewacko.com/blog','Supposedly, the L.A. City Council has voted to strike the name \'South-Central\' from all official documents, signs, etc. It will be replaced with just plain ol\' \'South L.A.\' Janice Hahn was supposedly somehow involved. No link yet available.\r\n\r\nI heard this on the John & Ken Show, but I don\'t think it was an April 1 joke.','2003-04-02 05:31:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1479,1,3267,'205.188.209.39','Barry','apache7tears@aol.com,','','Shoot em\' down and bayonet twice any Iraqi soldier who does not surrender.','2003-04-02 05:53:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1480,1,3266,'65.95.87.225','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Given what went on under the Soviet regimes, it\'s hard to argue that one. \"Evil Empire\" was exactly right. That said, here we are in 2003. Uzbekistan may also be in an transition stage, and this may be something we need to jolly along for a while - but not forever. What Kos should acknowledge more is the important role Russia still plays there, and the ways this limits American freedom of action.\r\n\r\nStill, the last thing we need is another f\'ing Arab politics dynamic playing out in Central Asia.','2003-04-02 06:03:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1481,1,3254,'12.10.219.31','Sudipto','sudipto74@yahoo.com','','I have got the machine which was kept hidden by this man. And now I have just came back from 4000 AD. If you wish to know what I saw contact me. Its very interesting. And I have got a thing with me from that era for a proof. sudipto74@yahoo.com','2003-04-02 06:10:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1482,1,3267,'24.188.178.217','Gagazote','gagazote@notforrelease.hotmail.com','','Better than bayonetting them if Mr. Telenko\'s fears are indeed realized, is that our troops should riddle them bullets, hack off their arms and legs with rusty axes, disembowel them with sharpened army pack shovels, feed the entrails to stray Iraqi dogs, run over them three or four times with our tanks using their blood to lubricate the treads, drag them behind humvees through the streets at 50 mph... then we should kill them.','2003-04-02 06:11:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1483,1,3267,'64.81.34.133','Tablunga','j6@hotmail.com','','How come they can rescue the white chick but not the black chick? ','2003-04-02 06:42:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1484,1,3267,'208.37.156.192','Jack','none@none.info','','@ Tablunga - Perhaps because the \"black chick\" is dead? Did you read the comments above, or just decide to jump straight to sharing your wit with us?','2003-04-02 06:47:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1485,1,3267,'64.81.34.133','Tablunga','j6@hotmail.com','','Just cuz he says so it don\'t mean shit to me. \r\nPersonally, I don\'t believe the captured soldiers they showed on TV are dead. I certainly hope not..','2003-04-02 07:09:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1486,1,3267,'66.135.180.47','Jennie Taliaferro','GalleryGal@iqmail.net','http://www.greatestjeneration.com','Trent, I sadly share your fears and your hopes.\r\nAccording to Jed Babbin in his War blog over at NRO in a post he made a couple or three days ago, there was an hour-long and much more gruesome version of the 6-minute Al Jazeera film that was aired on the internet which featured those captured from the 507th.\r\nI SO hope we\'re wrong. \r\nThose bodies are those of our soldiers, though, regardless. God rest them.\r\nAnd I hope the rest of our troops are heavily into righteous punishment and payback.\r\nDamn those bastards.','2003-04-02 07:12:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1487,1,3267,'66.135.180.47','Jennie Taliaferro','GalleryGal@iqmail.net','http://www.greatestjeneration.com','Oh, and Tablunga, there was yet another woman, in addition to Jessica and Shoshana Johnson, taken prisoner in that group--a Native American (Hopi) and mother of 2 small children named Lori Piestewa from Arizona.','2003-04-02 07:16:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1488,1,3267,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Payback needs to pay the right people back. The regular Iraqi army are not the folks we\'re talking about here. As for the Fedayeen and Ba\'athists, rest assured the Iraqis will take care of them in fine style if we just look the other way. This would let Iraqis play a uiseful role in the making of the new Iraq, keep allied soldiers out of the mess, and remove the Ba\'athists all in one go.\r\n\r\nDon\'t think U.S. forces will be taking a lot of surrenders in the coming battles near Baghdad and around Nasariyah, though.','2003-04-02 07:20:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1489,1,3268,'66.81.216.48','Bill Woods','wwoods@ix.netcom.com','','# Instapundit with a post ... As the saying goes, folks - \"this is a dead parrot!\"\r\n\r\nNitpick: That should be \"THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!\"\r\n\r\nA longer excerpt:\r\n\"C: \'E\'s not pinin\'! \'E\'s passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! \'E\'s expired and gone to meet \'is maker! \'E\'s a stiff! Bereft of life, \'e rests in peace! If you hadn\'t nailed \'im to the perch \'e\'d be pushing up the daisies! \'Is metabolic processes are now \'istory! \'E\'s off the twig! \'E\'s kicked the bucket, \'e\'s shuffled off \'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin\' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!\"\r\n ','2003-04-02 08:39:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1490,1,3176,'131.114.94.27','Dav','uaz@fuoristrada.net','','Seems that the Day by day site is unreachable...\r\nAm I having troubles or I am justified in some paranoia about politically correct hackers?\r\nDav','2003-04-02 08:43:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1491,1,3254,'193.212.132.34','Inge','drekka_mer@hotmail.com','','He couldn\'t possible know (otherwise he was very stupid) he would be caught (?) If he found that out he wouldnt go right? and then the information would be wrong = the history is wrong, which is impossible. U c? :D \r\n\r\nWell i might be very wrong lol\r\n\r\n','2003-04-02 09:35:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1492,1,3254,'202.130.178.126','CB','teddo@doramail.com','','The guys at the SEC says \"We don\'t believe this guy\'s story -- he\'s either a lunatic or a pathological liar,\". Why don\'t they let him see what happens next in the STOCKS. Ask the \"Time Traveler\" which one to invest and which one don\'t. If the results can be seen in two weeks, just like what he has done, why don\'t the guys from SEC give it a try?','2003-04-02 10:55:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1493,1,3267,'208.187.141.162','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','This is the official press release from CENTCOM on the bodies they found.\r\n\r\nI saw reports over on the Free Republic that two bodies were thought to be American from their uniforms. They are using DNA tests on all of them because they are all unrecogizable.\r\n\r\nThese Iraqi ghouls like to \'play\' with their victims after they are dead, it seems.\r\n\r\n---------------\r\nNEWS RELEASE\r\nHEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES CENTRAL COMMAND\r\n7115 South Boundary Boulevard\r\nMacDill AFB, Fla.\r\n33621-5101 Phone: (813) 827-5894; FAX: (813) 827-2211; DSN 651-5894 \r\n\r\n \r\n April 2, 2003\r\nRelease Number: 03-04-15\r\n\r\n\r\nFOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE\r\n\r\n\r\nAMERICAN POW RESCUED YESTERDAY; UNIDENTIFIED REMAINS FOUND\r\n\r\nCamp As Sayliyah, near Doha, Qatar - Coalition forces rescued Pfc. Jessica Lynch at a hospital yesterday in An Nasiriyah. Lynch is a member of the 507th Maintenance Company whose convoy was ambushed on March 23 by enemy forces in Iraq. Coalition forces are currently assessing her medical condition. \r\n\r\nAlso, according to initial reports from last night\'s rescue operation in Iraq, 11 human remains were found at or near the hospital rescue site. Efforts are underway to identify the remains and more information will be released as soon as it is available. \r\n \r\n','2003-04-02 12:41:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1494,1,3267,'144.183.226.2','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','PFC Lynch reportedly has two broken legs and a broken arm.','2003-04-02 15:22:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1495,1,3267,'207.168.128.48','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','The racist remark about not rescuing the black soldier is horrible. Anyone who takes a moment to research the news would know that the only way we got to rescue this woman yesterday was because the local Iraqis passed a note to the millitary through a journalist. If you insist that it\'s racist I guess the Iraqi\'s must not like blacks,\r\nbut I\'m sure if they knew the whereabout of any other POW\'s they would have tipped us off to those as well.','2003-04-02 15:22:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1496,1,3234,'172.153.70.132','Vicki','barebottomscandles@yahoo.com','http://www.operationsandbox.com','Help to young girls support our troops. Visit their website www.operationsandbox.com','2003-04-02 15:24:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1497,1,3270,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Sort of like those T-Shirts I saw once in Los Angeles. \"Welcome to L.A., where we treat you like a King!\" \r\n\r\nOf course, the picture on the front was Rodney King...','2003-04-02 15:40:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1498,1,3267,'66.255.8.100','AMac','ammackay@usa.net','','To Barry and Gagazote, urging mayhem on Iraqis, whether meant seriously or as trolls--\r\n\r\nWar by nature is ugly, ugly, ugly. Adding to this, using their years of experience, the Ba\'athists are trying hard to make life intolerable for civilians. We can only urge such restraint as is possible on our soldiers, for obvious moral and practical reasons.\r\n\r\nIf you don\'t understand this, your grasp of the situation is so weak that you have no business commenting. Think, read, and think some more. Then apologize.\r\n\r\nIf you do understand and chose to write anyway, then your morals are reprehensible. I hope Joe Katzman bans you from this site.','2003-04-02 15:49:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1499,1,3267,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','AMac, I don\'t ban people for stuff like that - that isn\'t how this place works. People put their positions out there, and others can meet them in debate.\r\n\r\nI\'ve deleted posts that posed an active threat to someone\'s safety, and I\'ve banned an IP address for spamming. To date, those are the only instances where I\'ve used administrator powers to intervene.','2003-04-02 16:31:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1500,1,3267,'24.188.178.217','gagazote','gagazote@nothotformailrelease.com','','To Amac:\r\n\r\nI apologize to you that you are unable to grasp what you should have clearly seen as sarcasm in my post.\r\n\r\nI don\'t believe that I urged mayhem on any specific Iraqis other than those who Mr. Telenko feared mught have committed atrocities.\r\n\r\nOf course war is as you said, \"ugly, ugly, ugly\" but did you draw this conclusion all by yourself?\r\n\r\nRegardless of whether my post was intended as my true feelings or sarcastic in nature, I doubt you\'d ever understand it.\r\n\r\nIf atrocities were committed, do you believe that those responsible should first be read a War Crimes Tribunal equivalent of \'Miranda Rights\'? And if they are not, should we then dismiss charges against them?\r\n\r\nOh, and if my morals are \'reprehensible\' as you implied, would it not be better to let me express them in an open forum such as this and get shot down for them or should we all read warm & cuddly thoughts instead? Think about this as you sip your coffee and compose your next letter to the Editor of your paper crying out your belief on the crackdown of dissent in this country by conservatives.','2003-04-02 16:47:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1501,1,3263,'64.6.36.228','Roy','roy@audiocomp.com','','Bravo!','2003-04-02 16:54:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1502,1,3271,'24.159.232.160','Barney Davis','BDavis@aol.com','','I\'ve got enough cash on hand to cover about 100 bus tickets if they need some financial help with that. I could probably charge another 300 on my credit card. Anyone who wants to die for these evil bastards should be given the opportunity to do so and I\'m willing to do my part to help. The world doesn\'t need those people.','2003-04-02 17:43:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1503,1,3271,'12.107.9.7','james warfield','james_w_f@hotmail.com','','I would be glad to commute there myself and, if provided a bus, have plenty of time to shuttle Palestinians and anyone else interested - provided it is understood that this is a one-way trip. Sure glad to find this site. Wasn\'t sure what this was all about until Glen Reynolds interview on CNN. This is good stuff....','2003-04-02 17:59:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1504,1,3271,'63.224.73.96','Matt Johnson','matjohns@vnet.net','http://yourword.blogspot.com','I believe this is what the dot.com world euphemistically calls a \"Reduction in Force.\"','2003-04-02 19:43:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1505,1,3267,'66.255.8.100','AMac','ammackay@usa.net','','Joe Katzman (4:31 pm):\r\n\r\nPoint taken.\r\n\r\n\r\nGagazote (4:47pm):\r\n\r\n> you are unable to grasp what you should \r\n> have clearly seen as sarcasm in my post.\r\nWhat you wrote (6:11am) isn\'t funny. Let\'s let other readers judge for themselves.\r\n\r\n> I don\'t believe that I urged mayhem on \r\n> any specific Iraqis...\r\nSarcastic or serious, just make up your mind.\r\n\r\n> did you draw this conclusion [war is ugly] \r\n> all by yourself?\r\nNo. I read. History and fiction. Your point?\r\n\r\n> If atrocities were committed...\r\nIf\r\n> ...read a War Crimes Tribunal equivalent \r\n> of \'Miranda Rights\'? [Or] dismiss charges \r\n> against them?\r\nI don\'t get what you\'re saying, but let me hazard a serious answer. For both moral and political reasons, we have to minimize US casualties and the suffering of Iraqi civilians while defeating armed resistance. For the current fight and for Iraq\'s future, it\'s also important to identify and neutralize (kill/injure/detain) Ba\'athist supporters operating outside the \'rules of war\' (notably, anti-civilian terrorists). On an active battlefield, faced with a hostile population, these objectives run at cross purposes to one another. Given Ba\'athist actions, tragedies are inevitable. I hope that planners thought through these problems, and have given combat units some ability to deal with them (MP platoons, translators).\r\n\r\n> ...would it not be better to let me express \r\n> them in an open forum such as this...?\r\nPer Mr. Katzman, point taken.\r\n\r\n> Think about this as you sip your coffee and \r\n> compose your next letter to the Editor of your\r\n> paper crying out your belief...\r\nHow could you tell I\'m drinking a latte? \r\nHow\'d you read my handwriting!\r\n','2003-04-02 19:48:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1506,1,3267,'206.169.33.28','DoseOfReality','Dose@Reality.net','','> These Iraqi ghouls like to \'play\' with their victims after they are dead, it seems.\r\n\r\nIn fact this is very common in warfare. Don\'t kid yourself that Americans are somehow immune to it.\r\nAnthony Swofford testifies to it in his excellent memoir of GWI, \"Jarhead\":-\r\n\r\nNear our bivouac, Crocket has found a corpse her particularly disagrees with. He says the look on the dead man\'s face, his mocking gesture, is insulting, and that the man deserved to die and now that he\'s dead the man\'s corpse deserves to be fucked with. And Crocket goes to the corpse again and again, day after day, and with his E-tool he punctures the skill and with his fixed bayonet he hacks into the torse. And he takes pictures. Johnny Rotten orders Crocket to stay away from the corpse, but he doesn\'t, Crocket is being driven mad by that corpse. I understand what drives Crocket to desecrate the dead soldier--fear, anger, a sense of entitlement, cowardice, stupidity, ignorance. ... Crocket--hacking at the dead Iraqi soldier and taking pictures of the waste--is fighting against our lack of satisfaction.','2003-04-02 20:02:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1507,1,3275,'198.81.26.139','KL duPre\'','redmarilyn@yahoo.com','','Thanks for sharing! Wish I had heard it with my own ears. Has anyone read Nat Hentoff\'s [Why I am not marching against the war] in the Village Voice online? Can\'t link to it, but hope you\'ll find it and read it. Today has been a really good day to Blog! Thanks for adding to my reading and thinking pleasure.','2003-04-02 22:36:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1508,1,3267,'64.3.123.2','Tablunga','j6@hotmail.com','','I find the fantasy about Pvt. Lynch having been \"repeatedly gang raped\" to be quite interesting..','2003-04-02 22:46:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1509,1,3275,'198.81.26.139','KL duPre\'','redmarilyn@yahoo.com','http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0314/hentoff.php','Here\'s the link to the Hentoff article on why he\'s not marching in anti-war protests this time around.','2003-04-02 22:50:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1510,1,3267,'172.148.21.11','Dan Hartung','lakefxdan@aol.com','http://www.lakefx.nu/','Regarding Trent\'s fears:\r\n\r\n1) I suspect that the 507th was taken by Fedayeen, but the Apache pilots were taken by Republican Guards, and their treatment (at least initially) may be quite different. The pilots seemed unharmed in the video shown.\r\n\r\n2) Snuff videos? Perhaps. I don\'t equate the Fedayeen with the bloodthirsty al Qaedans who killed Pearl, though. I wouldn\'t be surprised if there are videos for sale showing the dead bodies, but arranging for a videotaped execution is purely speculative on your part and doesn\'t seem likely given the circumstances.\r\n\r\n3) I think you\'re projecting movie-based fantasies here, especially with the \"trophy\" bit. (And it\'s changed my opinion of your coolheadedness, to tell the truth.) We know that Cornum was fondled by one of her captors but he was also influenced by the presence and apparent disapproval of others (although he wasn\'t influenced by her unresponsiveness and injury). Nevertheless Cornum wasn\'t gang-raped. We do know that Saddam uses rapes as a means of control /of others/, but would the same people be involved here and use the same technique for not much purpose? That\'s an unknown. True, the Fedayeen and other of Saddam\'s thugs are known to be ruthless, so there\'s a whole range of possibilities here, but I don\'t see the jumping to worst-case scenario as justified. Ultimately her presence in a hospital indicates that at least some consideration for her situation was extended.','2003-04-03 00:17:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1511,1,3267,'216.190.16.70','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','PFC Lynch did not have two broken legs and a broken arm prior to capture. She had them when she was freed. They were most likely result of torture. This is SOP for both Saddam\'s regime thugs and Al Qaeda. And anyone who bothered to pay attention to the doings of Talaban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan knows that rape of enemy women was also part of their sick game plan.\r\n\r\nAs for doubts of there being snuff videos of our murdered prisoners, this is from Jed Babbin\'s NRO column of March 27th:\r\n\r\n\"I have confirmed that the Al-Jazeera tape, all twelve minutes of it, is merely an excerpt of the hour-long version being shown regularly in Egypt and elsewhere. The short version shows the interrogation of some U.S. soldiers and the defamed dead bodies of others. The longer version includes all that, plus the murders and later abuse and mutilation of the bodies. Apparently, the whole thing is out there on the internet. I don\'t want to watch it tonight. Maybe tomorrow morning, when the mind is fresher, more able to withstand it.\" \r\n\r\nhttp://www.nationalreview.com/babbin/babbin032703.asp#006193','2003-04-03 01:16:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1512,1,3254,'12.239.213.9','worm','skldjskldj@aol.com','','can some1 prove this crap','2003-04-03 02:44:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1513,1,3254,'12.239.213.9','worm','beavisbf@aol.com','','u should get drug tested....','2003-04-03 02:53:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1514,1,3254,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Worm, someone earlier (and me in the main post) has a link that verifies it as an urban legend. BUT, it\'s pretty entertaining to speculate about it as if it was true, and deal with the paradoxes etc.','2003-04-03 03:01:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1515,1,3267,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','My interest in this is more at the level of policy impact in theater than personal details. That said, Trent\'s post may be conjecture but it is hardly baseless conjecture. Consider:\r\n\r\nAfter watching the Pearl video and knowing that similar tapes were made in Chechnya and Afghanistan (Soviet invasion), the snuff video supposition is not a stretch. Especially if one believes that al-Qaeda and Islamist terrorists are part of the Fedayeen. Snuff videos seem to have become part of Islamist culture. And of course, Trent refers to a longer form of the 6-minute clip shown on Al-Jazeera.\r\n\r\nThe supposition of rape is not illogical if you assumed, as I did, that Gulf War I prisoner Cornum was raped when she said sexual assault - though detailed research as a result of Dan\'s post clarified. Still, one is dealing with the SS of a regime that has \"violator of womens\' honor\" as formal job description... and the Fedayeen are lower creatures even than the Iraqi army of Gulf War I. It\'s not a slam dunk, therefore, but neither is it an improbable supposition. \r\n\r\nCombine all that with the fact that the only survivor of what seems to be a tortured and executed platoon is the pretty blonde... no, not an exceptional supposition at all. Jen Taliaferro drew the same set of conclusions around the time of Lynch\'s capture. \r\n\r\nAt this point, we don\'t know 100%. It would be nice if these conclusions were wrong, but the pointers aren\'t great. Nor are the pointers re: the rest of the platoon, incl. the torture hospital linked above.\r\n\r\nThere is, I think, a place for moral outrage even in war. On an in-theater policy level, it\'s time to take the kid gloves off with the Saddam Fedayeen and their ilk. Make sure that if captured they (who are beyond the protection of the Geneva Conventions) do not survive. Failure to do so only encourages the Fedayeen\'s behaviour. It ensures similar atrocities and tactics, and thus significantly greater civilian death rates in future conflicts. It also destabilizes the future Iraq, as we have seen with released Talibani in Afghanistan. \r\n\r\nThat does NOT strike me as a moral or sensible response - and what we need is both, implemented immediately.','2003-04-03 03:34:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1516,1,3276,'199.26.210.2','Melissa','mjzogby@yahoo.com','http://zogby.blogspot.com','I\'m not sure this is exactly a happy ending. SAC does not seem to want to let this go and was still hurling insults at the agonist as of yesterday. We\'ll see if there is any change today.','2003-04-03 14:44:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1517,1,3273,'63.214.87.9','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','How to keep that under reasonable control: Any passenger being asked to submit to such examination shall have the absolute right to request to see the visual results of the operator being subjected to such an examination, first!','2003-04-03 15:15:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1518,1,3273,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','*cnhuckle*\r\n\r\nNow THAT could be a scary thing. Then again, I have visions of word spreading that security operator X at such and such an airport is hot... and next thing you know, everyone starts showing up wearing Arab headresses.','2003-04-03 16:23:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1519,1,3273,'63.237.184.77','bkw','ben@fuzzygeek.com','','proposed system : the people viewing the images should be isolated from the people being viewed. if there\'s a problem, a different person should deal with the person being screened.\r\n\r\nit\'s a lot easier for people to deal with being seen \"naked\" if they never have to see the person or deal with the person who has seen them.\r\n\r\nif the apparatus speeds up the screening system (i imagine it would -- anything is better than having to do the Wand Dance), people would be willing to put up with quite a bit for the sake of convenience.','2003-04-03 17:43:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1520,1,3275,'63.237.184.77','bkw','ben@fuzzygeek.com','','i\'d argue that those still protesting the war are less about protesting the war and more about protesting bush.','2003-04-03 17:45:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1521,1,3203,'129.173.73.49','Paul Duffy','pduffy@is.dal.ca','','Better idea: Just wipe out all non-U.S. citizens. Nuke \'em. Poison \'em. Starve \'em. That would get you the results you crave.','2003-04-03 18:14:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1522,1,3267,'144.183.226.2','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Lynch was tortured. See this link.','2003-04-03 18:50:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1523,1,3270,'209.6.138.69','Richard Filion','rhfil@rcn.com','','Peter Arnett\'s latest faux pas is just the most recent. During Desert Storm he allowed himself to be used by the Iraqi propagandists to report their version of the war. On a CNN show, Arnett tried to discredit the U.S. military by fabricating an absurd story about the military targeting U.S. POWs who supposedly had defected and were killed by the use of nerve gas. That resulted in his being fired from CNN. Arnett has a tremendous drive to be the center of the story, perhaps in an effort to reproduce his reporting from Vietnam. Unfortunately that desire seems to cause him to ignore his responsibilities as a reporter. I think he was hoping to buy favor with the Iraqis and thus get a tremendous scoop - a personal interview with Saddam Hussein.','2003-04-03 19:47:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1524,1,3280,'141.154.250.235','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','Part of the truth is, they don\'t get them.\r\n\r\nThey make them.','2003-04-03 20:18:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1525,1,3280,'141.154.250.235','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','Oh I read the rest of your post; didn\'t see it at first.\r\n\r\nYou make the same point.\r\n\r\nI would also echo and expend on Shaeffer\'s point:\r\n\r\nI told my son that even though he was going to Europe on a guaranteed contract, he would get to know the United States better. You really are in with all types of people. The class thing is overstated in my opinion, although the top elite does not serve.\r\n\r\nLast Sunday when he called, he told me that one of his fellow enlisted soldiers had been an English teacher in Japan. I remember all types: farmers, ghetto boyz, Sioux off the res, holy rollers, porn maniacs - from all 50 states and a dozen countries. All in one barracks. My son\'s squad leader is from Mexico. There\'s a mechanic who\'s an East Indian from Kenya.\r\n\r\nWe were laughing when he told me about some of these conversations you have in the Army. Too much, and too kooky.\r\n\r\nThat\'s why my military isn\'t Tom Clancy\'s military - too square-jawed - it\'s the military of Catch-22, M*A*S*H, The Caine Mutiny, Soldier in the Rain, Beetle Bailey, Willie and Joe.\r\n\r\nHey, if someone doens\'t want to join, it\'s their loss.\r\n','2003-04-03 20:58:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1526,1,3280,'129.100.81.198','Patrick Brown','brown5@uwo.ca','','Joe,\r\n\r\n Abraham Lincoln famously said that you can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time. That’s the idea behind markets, like the stock market: everyone can make a bad bet now and then; some people will make bad bets till their money is gone. But eventually, the truth will out. The market will figure out whether a company is worth its share price. I think the same thing is happening with respect to media coverage of the military, and for the same reason.\r\n\r\n Over the last twenty years, you could make good money in the market because the basic truth is that the market goes up. There are slips and sidesteps along the way, but Dow was at 800 when Reagan became president and it’s at 8000 now. What that means is that you could do pretty well not knowing anything, just by being in the market. Buggywhips tanked and Microsoft soared, but you don’t need much expertise to do alright in the market.\r\n\r\n Similarly, you don’t need much expertise to do alright in cultural commentary. All you need is to be “in the market” – that is, to suppose that ordinary people are good, decent, intelligent, moral, and capable. If you suppose those things, you’ll be right more times than not. What this means is that the “elites” – in the news media and the academy – who scorn ordinary people are, in a sense, betting that the market will go down over the long term, and that’s a fool’s bet.\r\n\r\n In the market, if you bet wrong, you are separated from your money. But in the news media and the universities, the elites are insulated from the real world. Because they agree with each other, because they do not test their theories (for example, the theory that American soldiers are blood-thirsty morons), they get no feedback, so they can be wrong for a long time. What’s happening in the Iraq war is that the elites are getting very public feedback. They’re doing their usual “ordinary people are stupid” schtick. But now, because of embedded reporters and videophones, we\'re seeing the truth of smart weapons and humane soldiers. We\'re seeing how common among Americans things like bravery, stamina, and invention are.\r\n\r\n In the market for news, Martin Savidge is being bought; Peter Arnett is being sold. The elites are getting feedback. This is a wonderful thing, and what will come of it is change in the way the media portray the military. It won’t necessarily be that individual reporters will be changed by the Iraq experience, although that is likely. Rather, what is developing is a media reputation market with very good sources of information leading to efficient distribution of reputations.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-03 21:45:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1527,1,3267,'144.183.226.2','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','The story about Lynch\'s gunshot wounds and stab wound are untrue. \r\n\r\nHer parents did not confirm the Wash Post\'s story about a wildcat fight. \r\n\r\nThey did say she has no feeling in her feet. \r\n\r\nAlso, nine of the 11 bodies found with her are American. \r\n\r\nhttp://www.msnbc.com/news/889604.asp ','2003-04-03 22:25:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1528,1,3280,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Damn, that was intelligent. In some ways, Patrick, it\'s a shame that you\'re a professor of psychology only. Can\'t you apply for a \"double major\" or something :-)','2003-04-03 22:56:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1529,1,3267,'12.217.203.62','Aaron Mays','aaronmays@hotmail.com','','We are fighting Arabs. What do you expect? Civilised behaviour?\r\n\r\n','2003-04-03 23:13:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1530,1,3280,'12.163.171.254','Chuck Berry','cberrya6e@sbcglobal.net','','Interesting commentary, Joe, and reminiscent of similar trains of thought of my own in the 8 years since I left the Navy. My time in the private sector has left me with many impressions on the nature of the relationship between military and civilian worlds and the perceived disconnects between the two. And, my own internal resolution of this issue comes down to the very nature of the all-volunteer service that has been a hallmark of the current US military. With the elimination (and non-reinstatement) of the draft, we have allowed the military to achieve a level of professionalism and prowess at a relative size that has never been equaled in the annals of history. But, that performance and power has removed, to a considerable extent, the cross-blending of class and culture that is the subject of so much nostalgic waxing when discussing the draft-based military of the mid-20th century. \r\n\r\nI listened to the stories of my father and grandfather and the nature of their biggest leadership \"challenges\" as naval officers. I was relieved when my turn came as my sailors where simply superb - intelligent and motivated, not always happy, but excellent at their jobs and all volunteer. A few bad apples here and there, but nothing compared to what the draft levied to tax my elders! This benefit has allowed the nation to forge the greatest, smartest, and most advanced military with a minimal investment in numbers of people. In others words, it has created something that the American market will bear. \r\n\r\nThis all-volunteer service, created at a time when America has not been visibly threatened (to most citizens...) since the end of WWII, has flourished by drawing, by and large, from legacy service families and from those who are looking to the service to give them that boost up in life. This has tended to eliminate the upper tiers of the economic strata as money has replaced service as a driving force in our culture. (I am not criticizing this, I am just stating my observation. Peace and prosperity tend to create this condition.) At the same time, the services have all gotten smaller. While there is considerable room for increasing the size of the military to relieve operational tempo and equipment lifecycle loading, a lottery-based draft to fill in the gaps would revive many of the problems of our nation\'s past draft-based military arms. Problems that would weaken the morale and efficiency of the current service. And to what effect? To close the gap between military and civilian sectors that plague our society today? After much contemplation, I have decided it is not worth the cost. Most Americans here in Flyover Land get it and if our intellectual and political leadership don\'t, those that care eventually do. Our military just keeps doing the job it is asked and tasked to do and its performance keeps getting better and better. This is the most effective means at closing the gap I see.','2003-04-03 23:39:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1531,1,3278,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','For a look at how this phenomenon fits into wider societal trends associated with the military, see \"Where They Get Young Men Like This\".','2003-04-04 00:08:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1532,1,3280,'216.158.200.170','Macallan','macallan25@pacbell.net','','Wow. I really enjoyed not only the original post, but the comments. Actually quite profound. Thanks.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-04 00:42:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1533,1,3267,'66.255.8.100','AMac','ammackay@usa.net','','Aaron,\r\n\r\nWe are fighting for Arabs, as well as fighting them. Some have risked their families and lives on our behalf -- in particular, *helping Pvt. Lynch, according to this gripping DoD report.*\r\n\r\nWhere possible, blame to individuals and credit to individuals. Like it or not, we are midwifing the birth of a new Iraq; let\'s do what we can (against long cultural odds) to make it a decent place.','2003-04-04 00:46:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1534,1,3279,'216.158.200.170','Macallan','macallan25@pacbell.net','','Am I the only one that thinks there is an entire Republican Guard division that\'s gone missing?\r\n\r\n','2003-04-04 00:51:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1535,1,3276,'12.80.30.40','sue','smprattt@yahoo.com','','I think that it’s naïve to think that this issue is only between The Agonist and Stratfor. It’s not. Even if Stratfor decides not to sue The Agonist for damages, Sean-Paul was wrong in defrauding his audience. He stole Stratfor\'s work and tried to pass it off as his own. That\'s inexcusable. Stratfor may forgive him, but I don\'t. And you shouldn’t either. Sean-Paul cheated others out of an audience that was rightfully theirs. Perhaps some of that audience would have been paying customers of Stratfor’s site. Or perhaps some would have chosen others warblogs, such as The Command Post or, yes, Strategic Armchair Command. We’ll never know because Sean-Paul stacked the deck in his favor and didn’t give others the chance to compete with him fair and square. You said yourself that a major part of The Agonist’s success has been based on reports that people felt they couldn’t get anywhere else. Well, it turns out they could have gotten it ONE other place, but needed a paid subscription to do so. No wonder that hundreds of thousands of people were thrilled to get it for free! It was good stuff!!! I’m sure that Stratfor thought it was worth whatever premium they had to pay for it. Many other warbloggers must subscribe to Stratfor, but they realized that this information was not theirs to disseminate. Sean-Paul, however, decided that he was above those pesky rules of law, ethics and decency. He stole from Stratfor, lied to his audience and cheated other warbloggers of their share of the audience. Let’s see - lie, cheat & steal – yup, he hit all three! No wonder everyone thinks he’s such a prince!!! Yeah, he’s a regular Robin Hood – stealing from the rich to give to the poor. Please. He’s that pathetic kid who steals candy to give it to the popular kids so they’ll like him. They’ll cheer him on as long as he’s doing their dirty work, “no problem, keep blogging.” And when he gets caught, which he has, they’ll desert him for the next kid who will put out to be popular. As soon as they realize they’re not getting anymore “goodies” from Sean-Paul, they drop him faster than you can say, “there’s a new insecure kid in town.” Good riddance.','2003-04-04 01:11:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1536,1,3280,'198.26.74.99','J Heslin','afpnt@but.no.spam.please','','Regarding \"...[the elite liberals] are degreed and certified are glib and swarmy, but not educated.... they rarely work among, know, see or care about the type of Americans now barreling to Baghdad...\"\r\n\r\nThe difference between Rome and America is that our military *is* so highly educated. American military citizen soldiers, and retirees--who at 42 are still in their prime--*become* America\'s corporate and civic leaders.\r\n\r\nPeople of course *do* work among, know, and see the type of Americans now barreling to Baghdad, they\'re simply not aware. \r\n\r\n-J Heslin','2003-04-04 01:27:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1537,1,3276,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Sue, you have a point. Not attributing all of his Stratfor posts was wrong. Not having an arrangement in advance with Stratfor was wrong. Precisely because the material was not his. The use did cross the line from research, as far as any court would rule.\r\n\r\nShould he have come clean about his exact sources earlier? Yes. Did he come clean, and even send people to SAC\'s critical post before I blogged it? Yes, and that counted for something in my books. Did Stratfor decide that benefits of having Sean-Paul fix the unattributed posts (note that some already were attributed) and work with them were valuable enough to warrant their co-operation going forward? Yes, they did. If they had decided otherwise, his ass was grass; the only reason they\'re playing along is because they want to. That, too, means something to me.\r\n\r\nHence, happy ending. He did wrong - I\'ll happily say that - and then he fixed it. If it had begun happily, there wouldn\'t have been a controversy. But at least it ended that way, which is why the controversy died.\r\n\r\n\"He stole from Stratfor, lied to his audience and cheated other warbloggers of their share of the audience. Let’s see - lie, cheat & steal - yup, he hit all three!\"\r\n\r\n#1 & 2 I\'ve dealt with. Cheated other warbloggers? I\'d say you overstep there. My belief: if every Stratfor item he did not at first attribute was never posted at all, he\'d still be a big success. \r\n\r\nSean-Paul started off blogging nearly 24/7 and kept it up (a big factor for others like Command Post and Blogs of War too – probably the biggest factor for all 3), used lots of other sources, and had a good reader network that fed him more information. He also came in with a left-leaning view, so a substantial portion of the blogosphere trusted him much more than, say, Blogs of War (or even Winds of Change). That alone made him distinct, and was much more important than the Stratfor material in cementing his rise. There\'s a chaos theory principle called \"sensitive dependence on initial conditions,\" and Sean-Paul was reaping its benefits from minute 1. \r\n\r\nDid the additional Stratfor material make a difference? Some. Did it make The Agonist? Doubtful. He worked hard, and had the right strategy and positioning, and owes most of his success to that. Which wouldn\'t have redeemed him had he refused to right his wrongs. But he did right them.\r\n\r\nI\'m one of those other warbloggers, after all. Do I feel cheated out of an audience? No. They\'ll come to him for certain things, and me for other things, and others again for different material. It\'s a big blogosphere, and now that the issues are addressed Sean-Paul is welcome to his place in it. As is Strategic Armchair Command, who did some good and justified investigative reporting. As I say, I have no rancor here, and wish good things for both of them.','2003-04-04 02:06:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1538,1,3280,'129.100.100.56','Patrick Brown','brown5@uwo.ca','','Interesting comments, Chuck. They helped me formulate some things that have been running around in my mind lately.\r\n\r\nThe modern American armed forces send decision making power downwards. You have special forces troops in small units, each of whom can order up a king’s ransom of air power and other assets. And you have NCOs with significant responsibility on the battlefield. This is possible because individual soldiers are highly-selected and highly-trained. As a result, they have both the knowledge and the temperament to usefully take responsibility where they are, rather than pass decisions on up the line when in combat. In this world, a major function of the top brass is to arrange for people to be selected and trained so that as far as possible the right person is in the right spot at the right time. The brass is aiming people at jobs. In the volunteer army, this may be easier because people stay in the force long enough to be selected and trained for a job.\r\n\r\nThere’s a parallel here to smart bombs. Smart bombs are targeted. There is intelligence in that targeting, not just in the sense of what target should be blown up, but also in the sense of what nearby non-targets should be left undamaged. The way to get this is to choose your bomb, choose your time, and choose your approach. We see the consequences in all those photos of Baghdad Glenn Reynolds and others have had on their sites the last few days.\r\n \r\nI don’t think it’s just my imagination that there is a parallel between smart bombs and smart NCOs. Both arise from the same value system: The world, though complex, is understandable, if only a bit at a time. If you have the right experience, make the right observations, then whether mutt or magistrate you can make a decision. You can also make your bomb go to the right building and knock on the front door.\r\n\r\nThat, it seems to me, has long been the essence of American philosophy. Because we all have different experiences and different perspectives, individuals matter. If you believe that – if you believe that experience teaches, that it individuates, that it matters – then it makes sense to devolve power downwards in your army, to take advantage of as much experience as you can collect. And at the same time, your belief in the importance of individuals makes you want to hit targets and avoid innocent neighbours, because people matter.\r\n\r\nThis may be what so disturbs the French, the Germans, the Russians, and the Chinese. It’s not the explosions. They’re all used to those. It’s the control. That control is what is separating America from the axis of weasels. It makes America good and strong at the same time. And it’s bad news for the elites who run Europe and China, because it is based on the importance of ordinary people. \r\n','2003-04-04 02:31:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1539,1,3281,'129.100.100.56','Patrick Brown','brown5@uwo.ca','','Only one way to interpret a finding of intelligent readers, Joe. We\'ve all gots lots of choice of sites to choose from. Smart readers come here. Good for you.\r\n\r\nCheers,\r\n\r\nPatrick','2003-04-04 03:29:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1540,1,3278,'207.19.142.20','AMac','ammackay@usa.net','','The bias you talk about was on display last Friday on the local (Baltimore, MD) NPR affiliate. An hour of \"The Mark Steiner Show\" was devoted to exploring coverage of the war and its effect on opinion. The two guests and the guest-host had almost-identical viewpoints, giving the impression that there is agreement on these matters among those in the know. As you point out, this consensus is phony.\r\n\r\nThe questions that panelists couldn\'t see to ask were telling. An hour on the media in wartime, with no thought to how American reporters deal with conflicts that arise between their professional roles, and their obligations as citizens of a country at war. Especially rich, in that a discussion last Friday would have anticipated Peter Arnett\'s traitorous aid-and-comfort interview on Ba\'athist TV.\r\n\r\nI\'m not saying anything here that I haven\'t written directly to the show\'s producer. He acknowledged my point of view, and was polite, without making any substantive comments. This is either good, or bad, depending on expectations. ','2003-04-04 05:41:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1541,1,3280,'12.207.130.197','Sandy P.','fakeaddy@hotmail.com','','No, Patrick, bottom up is what has separated America from the world since 1781(?).\r\n\r\nWe are the original rogue nation. They know our history better than we do, yet they still do not understand US. But they have feared US for a very long time.','2003-04-04 06:19:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1542,1,3279,'67.250.188.158','Lisa','tlcbragg@netzero.net','','The POW footage link you spoke of is of the short version of the tape that was first aired on Al-Jazeera. It is very horrific, difficult to watch, and hard to forget. I would advise anyone with a weak stomach for such horror not to watch it.','2003-04-04 06:37:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1543,1,3279,'63.196.106.169','Tim','pittspilot@hotmail.com','http://www.politicallomcevak.blogspot.com','Lisa,\r\n\r\nThat is true. I had hoped to warn people before they downloaded it. \r\n\r\nI have felt that people should see the horror in order to understand what it is that we are fighting.','2003-04-04 08:28:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1544,1,2873,'24.69.255.237','JC','tumadray@shaw.ca','','very eloquent. i am half canadian but grew up in Wash DC most of my life. coming here to BC was an eye opener to the anti-americanism that rolls so easily off canadian tongues. i have been ridiculed and belittled simply for showing interest in anything American. I can honestly say i have nothing in common with my fathers brethren.','2003-04-04 10:41:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1545,1,3275,'209.226.89.184','Yves','absyves@netscape.net','','I was reading the other,day about Pearl Jam in concert. These woosy Bas.... would be the first ones to run and hide if the war was in the US. I believe we should still have the draft, then these anti-Bush, anti-War babies would see what it is like when you walk into a country that has been run by Dictators for so many years.They can sit back in their fancy homes and wine about the war until its on their doorstep, then they\'ll be protesting that the Government is ignoring them if the soldiers don\'t show up in time. To all you protesters against this war. GROW UP AND GET A LIFE.\r\nYves from Canada.','2003-04-04 14:02:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1546,1,3282,'207.168.131.99','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','I\'m getting ripped off, just the other day I posted about the wisdom of admitting (at least to yourself) what you don\'t know. Whoever is doing the formatting though, he\'s a genius. A genius with a lot of time on his hands.','2003-04-04 14:04:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1547,1,3282,'199.67.7.151','Melcher','Pouncer@aol.com','','The remaining problem, and I paraphrase Mark Twain, is \r\n\r\n\"the stuff you know, \r\nthat just ain\'t so.\"\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-04-04 14:14:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1548,1,3282,'193.60.129.71','John F','farren_john@hotmail.com','','Robert Rumsfeld, Zen koan master.','2003-04-04 14:30:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1549,1,3280,'208.187.143.170','Charles Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','','All of this \"on the money\" comment reminds me of a remark William F. Buckley made years ago when he noted that he would rather be governed by first 50 names in the Boston Telephone Book than by the entire faculty of Harvard. There is wisdom and many other positive characteristics \"embedded\" in the American people and the military knows this and has organized accordingly. ','2003-04-04 14:39:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1550,1,3282,'129.42.208.186','Steve','szs@rcn.com','','This is the work of Hart Seely - it appeared in Slate a couple of days ago. \r\n\r\n(http://slate.msn.com/id/2081042/)\r\n\r\nSomehow the blogosphere is good at scrubbing correct attributions from stories. PLEASE give credit where it is due. Otherwise it just looks like copyright infringement.\r\n','2003-04-04 14:54:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1551,1,3275,'152.163.189.131','Peter','wacobay@aol.com','','The patriotic left died with Hubert Humphrey, Scoop Jackson and Daniel Patrick Moynahan.\r\n The Right has banished it\'s kooks and flakes, where is David Duke in Republican circles? Why did Buchanan leave the Republican Party? The answer is that we repudated them.\r\n The Left has not repudated their kooks and flakes, instead it has allowed them to define the Left. There is no substantantial difference between Pelosi, McDermmot, Kerrey and the people who carried the sign proclaiming we support the troops when they shoot their officers. There is no one in the Democratic Party leadership denouncing de Genova (sp?).\r\n The public sees this and the revulsion grows. Lifelong Democrats here in Northeast Texas (home of the yellow dog) look in disbelief.\r\n The Left races to the margin. They\'ve grown as hatefilled as the KKK.','2003-04-04 15:39:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1552,1,3282,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Bloggers often use \"second-hand attribution\" in order to reward people who pointed the link out to them in the first place, and it\'s considered perfectly fair to do so.\r\n\r\nAmerican Realpolitik links directly to that URL in his post, and it\'s necessary to visit him if one wants to see the rest. Thanks for writing in with your concern.','2003-04-04 15:52:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1553,1,3278,'208.144.114.4','JMN','jim.nevler@dowjones.com','','As a refugee from the liberal media, I would like to point out that the biases you lament also apply to \"financial journalism\" as practiced by most media outlets. There is no requirement that a financial reporter know anything about the subject he is writing about. I have spent years dealing with editors who had no understanding of how markets worked, refused to learn, and couldn\'t understand why I believe in capitalism. I actually met one woman who though she could pass the CFA exams because she had once written a story about accounting! \r\n\r\nWe should not be surprised at the culture shock being suffered by the embedded reporters; save for the ex-military covering the war for Fox, most have been carfully trained in their colleges to believe that all U.S. military (the kind of people none of them ever meet professionally, let alone socially) are dope-crazed baby killers. This time the liberal media will not be able to let the truth get in the way of its \"reporting.\"','2003-04-04 16:00:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1554,1,3275,'199.44.16.170','ardsgaine','fincher2@nettally.com','','There\'s a very easy way to separate the sensible dissenter from the moral cripple. A sensible dissenter is one who recognizes the essential moral virtue of the US and wants the best for this country. He might have thought that the war was not in the best intersts of the US, but now that the shooting has started, the sensible dissenter recognizes that the only good way for it to end is with a US victory. He knows that simply walking out and leaving Saddam in power is not an option. Hence, no one who is still protesting, trying to end the war, can be considered a sensible dissenter. \r\n\r\nThose who are still protesting fall into one of two possible categories: 1) those who hate the USA and everything it stands for; and 2) those who just hate Bush. I\'m not certain that those really are two categories, but I allow for the possibility that there might be people whose hatred for Bush is so deeply ingrained that they are blind to the fact that, in trying to bring him down by making the war a political issue, they are doing our country a grave disservice.','2003-04-04 16:00:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1555,1,3280,'129.100.81.198','Patrick Brown','brown5@uwo.ca','','Charles, that is a wonderful quote from Buckley. I completely agree with him!\r\n\r\nPatrick','2003-04-04 16:10:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1556,1,3275,'213.140.31.170','Sabrina','sabrydm@libero.it','','I SUpport in ITALY the troops...\r\ni LOVE ALL of us..\r\ni thinks to you all of my day in every minute.. \r\ni proud that exists persons as you \r\ninfinitely tanks!!also from part of all my friends and my family. \r\nIf those felt single watched stars... are all the persons whom like me they love to you and they are there.. with you!!! If you want to write to me.:\r\nsabrydm@libero.it\r\n...excuse for my bad english..:-))','2003-04-04 16:32:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1557,1,3282,'129.42.208.186','Steve','szs@rcn.com','','But Joe, you could have given Seely attribution and kept the link the American Realpolitik by just replacing \"A reporter\" with \"Hart Seely\".\r\n\r\nJust because it\'s a blogging tradition doesn\'t make it right.','2003-04-04 16:37:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1558,1,3282,'12.246.57.231','June Gillam','jgillam@deltacollege.edu','http://www.deltacollege.edu/emp/jgillam/index.html','The \"knowing\" poem reminds me an of an old \"Ladder of Consciousness of Knowing\"\r\n\r\n(read from the bottom up, like climbing a ladder)\r\n\r\n======================\r\n4--not knowing you know\r\n3--knowing you know\r\n2--knowing you don\'t know\r\n1--not knowing you don\'t know\r\n======================\r\n\r\nUsed in some critical thinking classes to show the \"rise\" of unconscious ignorance through conscious ignorance through conscious knowing back \"up\" to automatic (unconscious) knowing (like driving a car for a simplistic example)','2003-04-04 16:53:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1559,1,3275,'68.34.116.139','sean g','sean@dendro.com','http://dotcommunist.us','Great story. I\'m against the war, but I loathe the \"don\'t you care about the children in (fill in the blank)\" line that big-L Liberals have used as a red-herring for every single conflict we\'ve been in since at least the beginning of the Reagan administration.\r\n\r\nI do not consider myself a Liberal. I consider myself a patriot. I served in the military, and I even voted once for a previous Bush. I never voted for Clinton or Gore. But I think the war is wrong.\r\n\r\nStill, if someone had used the \"don\'t you care\" line on me (which, when I was in college, usually was followed by \"the children in Nicaragua\"), I probably would have reacted similarly. You don\'t create informed dissent by accusing your audience of not caring, or by \"dying\" in front of their cab, or by burning the flag. The only way to achieve change is by a rational exchange of ideas; anybody who uses the \"don\'t you care\" argument isn\'t intellectually invested enough in the debate to be worth listening to.','2003-04-04 17:30:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1560,1,3275,'68.194.193.162','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','It\'s something of a commentary on our time that:\r\n1) The young woman had the effrontery to ask that \"question\";\r\n2) The majority of American men would probably not have read her off the way the old woman did. Whether that would be because of a lack of brass or an overpowering desire to avoid confrontation is difficult to determine.\r\n\r\nSince Black Tuesday, the in-your-face anti-American Left is getting whacked in the teeth this way more frequently than before. Still not frequently enough, but one must start somewhere.','2003-04-04 18:06:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1561,1,3282,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','That\'s a good suggestion. Done.','2003-04-04 18:09:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1562,1,3282,'129.42.208.186','steve','szs@rcn.com','','Thanks - much appreciated','2003-04-04 18:14:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1563,1,3284,'207.73.72.117','Dean Esmay','dean@deanesmay.com','http://www.deanesmay.com','I really hope we don\'t hear from him agan until the Baathists are finally and completely crushed.','2003-04-04 18:20:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1564,1,3284,'216.61.195.1','Emperor Misha I','misha@nicedoggie.net','http://nicedoggie.net/','Not a bad piece of journalism, that.\r\n\r\nI\'d have wished that he\'d used one of Salam\'s comments about the \"shields\" in his excerpts, though, but I realize that that would be the Sacramento Bee equivalent of pulling a full Benedict Arnett.','2003-04-04 19:07:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1565,1,3281,'131.193.113.117','mike van winkle','mike@armchairanalyst.net','http://www.armchairanalyst.net','Re: Saddam is Dead\r\n\r\nApparently now he isn\'t, at least not for sure... Yahoo reports','2003-04-04 20:17:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1566,1,3283,'131.193.113.117','mike van winkle','mike@armchairanalyst.net','http://www.armchairanalyst.net','Apparently now he isn\'t, at least not for sure... Yahoo reports','2003-04-04 20:29:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1567,1,3283,'216.46.202.73','Jill','jrw21@hotmail.com','','You should clarify Diana\'s quote. \r\n\r\nIt\'s \"It looks as if the only Palestinians who know how to fight FAIR are from West Virginia.\"\r\n\r\nHope that the process is already in place.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-04 20:45:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1568,1,3284,'63.214.100.213','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','Just offer up good thoughts for him while we all wait! \r\n','2003-04-04 21:01:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1569,1,3280,'209.254.96.100','Richard Aubrey','EAubrey103@aol.com','','I agree with most of these comments. But I disagree that having money makes one \"elite\", either as an individual or as a class.\r\nOnce, on campus in the Sixties, I was watching a local news show. A cop was relating how he\'d saved somebody from a burning car. Next to me was one of those ubiquitous, weedy, protest-everything, insufferable types. The cop stumbled over a word and the hippy type sneered.\r\n\"He saves lives,\" I said, \"you have good verb agreement.\"\r\nI\'m only about half sure the guy actually got it, but if he did, it had to be temporary.\r\nThe weedy types, having discovered they cannot make a showing in the mesomorphic world of actually doing stuff, have devised a new game. It\'s words. And, since they made up the game and the rules, they can keep changing the rules so nobody else has a chance. They need take no responsibility, come to no hard decisions, accomplish anything, or be the least bit useful to anybody.\r\nStill, they need the men (and women). See Noonan\'s column in October of 2001, \"Welcome Back, Duke\".\r\nIt kills them.\r\nSo they sneer. They scorn. They hold in contempt. And every time the men take care of business, it hurts them worse.\r\nA thousand of them publishing a hundred campus reviews don\'t do as much for people as a single sanitation crew.\r\nIn their hearts, they know it.\r\nSo they sneer.\r\nBut are ready to call for help.\r\nAnd then sneer again.\r\nAnd Tommy ain\'t a bloomin fool.','2003-04-04 21:52:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1570,1,3267,'68.50.8.225','DavidBowman','davetocus@hotmail.com','','I cringe everytime I see a Jessica-related news conference, afraid that someone -- probably a man -- will ask \"..so, was she raped?\"\r\n\r\nIt also makes me very,very sad to think about when she\'s back home, and all her teenage friends demand to know the details of what happened.\r\n\r\nI think it\'s a certainty she was beaten and raped. One newspaper linked to from this site says:\r\n\r\n================\r\n Her broken bones are a sure sign of torture, said Amy Waters Yarsinske, an ex-Navy intelligence officer and an expert on POW treatment.\r\n\r\n\"It\'s awfully hard to break both legs and an arm in a truck accident,\" Yarsinske said.\r\n\r\nIraqi dictator Saddam Hussein\'s thugs are known to use steel bars to bash their prisoners\' limbs, she said.\r\n==================\r\n\r\nAlso, whether we want to think about it to feel comfortable or ignore it so we can be polite, Jessica had to ENDURE it. I almost feel like I owe it to Jessica to acknowelege what happened and share her pain.\r\n\r\nThe fact is that her uniform was found in ANOTHER BUILING. Do you really think the Iraqi pigs gave her a bathrobe for her modesty?\r\n\r\nMy guess is that the the brave little girl -- a SUPPLY CLERK like Radar O\'Reilly -- shot and killed the bastards until she ran out of ammo, then struggled, kicked, and bit when taken prisoner.\r\n\r\nIf this had happened to a male, 25-year-old *Marine*, he would CERTAINLY get the Congressional medal.\r\n\r\nWe saw on CNN that they stripped her of her clothes. My guess is that they embarrased her, humiliated her, and tried to rape her. \r\n\r\nI like to think that at least she kicked one of them in his smelly Iraqi BALLS (or better, tore them off) before the bastards beat her with a metal pipe until they broke her foot, ankle, and legs. The broken arm came from Jessica trying to defend herself. Finally she couldn\'t fight back: she had run out of ammo again. \r\n\r\nWhatever happened next was something that makes me cry when I think about it. Broken-bone pain is so unspeakably HORRIBLE that she may have not even *known* she was being raped.\r\n\r\nThe one thing even tangentially good about any of this is that her youth and beauty may have saved her life. So did running out of ammo before the nightgown-wearing, ass-wiping-with-their-hands SAND DEVILS shot her to death.\r\n\r\nI\'m just glad that the new, civilized, Army (I\'m from the \'Nam days) has special psychiatrists for situations like this. I only hope Jessica\'s shrink is a woman.\r\n\r\n-d\r\n\r\nPS:\r\nAs for the press calling her \"Jessica\", I HOPE they do. She\'s America\'s little girl. Every man here is her dad, and every woman, her mom. I for one, am proud of her.\r\n','2003-04-04 23:09:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1571,1,3275,'192.146.145.219','jerryluvsjazz','jjasperson@webryders.net','','I\'m a recently new blogger and felt like contributing to this wonderfully enticing dialogue.\r\n\r\nI\'m a liberal and I\'m ashamed of the conduct that other liberals are displaying. I\'m also a veteran and have a deep sense of patriotism towards my country and fellow citizens.\r\n\r\nThe \"Left\" that everyone is speaking of is truly disrepresentative of my thinking and judgement regarding this war. While I don\'t agree with the manner our government has approached this war, I do agree that the action is necessary. I couldn\'t agree more with ardsgaine and sean g! If you are a dissenter, you have the right to an opinion, but recognize that a difference of opinion should minimally require a different solution; lacking a proposed solution makes you nothing more than a whining idiot.','2003-04-04 23:10:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1572,1,3280,'68.43.57.44','Michael Postt','fakeaddy@hotmail.com','','This doesn\'t change how true and well-written this post is, but I thought I had seen on anoher blog today (INTEL DUMP? Sgt. Stryker\'s?) that the Martin Savidge quote is being denied by CNN? I wish I had a link!\r\n\r\nAnyway, I attend university but went to a high school with many enlistees, and this article is very accurate in gauging the feelings of the former about the latter, and it kills me to hear it from them everyday.','2003-04-05 00:53:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1573,1,3280,'67.86.230.105','Kyle Stedman','kyle_st@eudoramail.com','','Unfortunately, the Martin Savidge thing is a hoax. See:\r\n\r\nHomer Nods\r\nWe should have known it was too good to be true. CNN informs us that the story we noted Wednesday about correspondent Martin Savidge was a hoax.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110003299\r\n\r\nKyle','2003-04-05 01:03:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1574,1,3280,'207.170.32.121','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The reason this \"story\" has legs hoax or no is because even if it is not true it could have been true. It is how we see ourselves. This story is our myth. John Wayne 2003.','2003-04-05 03:08:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1575,1,3280,'129.100.100.15','Patrick Brown','brown5@uwo.ca','','Kyle, that particular Martin Savidge story may be a hoax, but the basic point remains: lots of things are changing. In an odd way, it\'s not the soldiers who are under the microscope in Iraq, it\'s the reporters. The soldiers are our gold standard. We know who they are (they came from towns all over America). We\'re using them to measure the media. If this story wasn\'t true, it could have been.\r\n\r\nI\'m ultimately more interested in why CNN chose to devote several minutes tonight to an interview with a retired Indian army officer who claimed to know Saddam personally and who went on at length about how bloody the battle for Baghdad would be. Why was this broadcast? The man probably knows no more about what is going on in Baghdad than I do, but he spoke in very dire tones and his words - 100% speculation - were presented as practically fact.\r\n\r\nIf the Savidge story is a hoax, then so was that interview with the Indian officer. That is, the interview appeared on CNN, the guy is no doubt a real retired Indian officer, but his expertise is highly debatable. Nonetheless, CNN seems more interested in verifiability in the story of honor among young Americans in the field than when they interview spurious experts thousands of miles away from where those young Americans are fighting.\r\n\r\nMe, I\'m using coalition soldiers to measure the media.','2003-04-05 03:21:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1576,1,3287,'12.90.113.242','Patrick E. Walsh','walshp@worldnet.att.net','','Guys: I think the coming Battle of Baghdad will be more like Panama than either Manila or Grozny. \r\n\r\nI wrote two Field Manuals for the Army and taught tactics for two and a half years at the Benning School for Boys.\r\n\r\nNoreiga\'s stategy was much like Hussein\'s. He hoped to use his National Guard Brigades and paramilitary forces to lure the US into a costly urban battle, cause them to create massive civilian casualties and then use the media megaphone to magnify both American and Panamanian casualties and force an American withdrawal. It didn\'t work.\r\n\r\nIn Panama, the Army attacked Panama City from many directions, in many ways, on many targets simultaneously. Most initial objectives were secured quickly although there were some sharp fights as well. At that point the US controlled most of the key terrain in the city. From there, the Army operated a lot like the Brits in Basra. They developed the situation, found out where the bad guys were and then responded appropriately. In some cases that was a strike with Air Force or helicopters, in others it was pysops to induce surrender, in some relatively few cases it was suppressive (and destructive ) fire followed by an infantry assualt. In all cases, once the bad guy\'s position was identified, we isolated it from the rest of the population. In a few days the Noreiga regime was pinned down and unable to exercise control over anything beyond the buildings they occupied. \r\n\r\nThis was accompanied by aggresive patrolling at all times, relentless intelligence gathering and continous pysops. One examples was the cash for guns program. As this continued the Panamanian people began to assist the US to a greater and greater degree.\r\n\r\nWeeks after the initial assualt we were still sending mini-task forces of Light Infantry Platoons and Special Forces soldiers out to isolated Noreiga hold-outs in remote towns. They would surround the hold outs and negotiate their surrender.\r\n\r\nI think we will do much the same in Baghdad. We already have SF and indigenous forces operating in the city and they are supplying lots of intelligence about the Iraqi forces and their location. Together with our signal and image intelligence we will have a very good picture of who is in there and where they are. A barrage of precision bombs will destroy many if not most of them. \r\n\r\nOne additional feature is the many tunnels that exist. I certainly hope that we will not try to clear determined resisters out of them with infantry assualts. I would hope that at the first sign of resistance we would use our engineering technology to blow them up.\r\n\r\nReaders should know that while we have studied the British and Israeli experiences we have studied everyone else\'s too, including British, American, German and Russian tactics during WWII; American and North Vietnamese tactics in Vietnam; American and Japanese tactics in Manila, British and IRA tactics in Northern Ireland, French tactics in Algeria, American experiences in Panama and Grenada and so on. And, we have been doing so at least since the early 80\'s. \r\n\r\nOne of the responsibilities of the Army\'s Training and Doctrine Command is to study historical and contemporary battles to continuously update our own doctrine. The Army also does extensive experiments and simulations to see what works and what doesn\'t. That often means live fire and manuever exercises or MILES (Multiple Integrated Laser Engagement Systm aka Laser Tag)using different tactics and weapons to see which works best.\r\n\r\nFinally, most rotations at the Joint Readiness Training Center involves some Urban Combat against a competent and non-cooperative oppositon force, complete with civilians, terrorists, indigenous politicians, and news media. This is not only practice but part experiment as well since the scenarious allow the \"friendly\" unit to do whatever they want within certain broad limits. Successful tactics and techniques are then disseminated to the wider force. ','2003-04-05 03:47:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1577,1,3282,'207.170.32.121','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Joe K. and I have a discussion going about the nature of addiction. I have presented to him some evidence that contradicts the current theories. I also present an alternative theory that matches the evidence and explains things the current theory does not.\r\n\r\nJoe is having a hard time with this. Not surprising it is a charged subject and quite a few people have trouble with the evidence. Even those in the field who are familiar with my sources.\r\n\r\nIt boils down to a very simple statement probably well known by all of you accepted and yet disregarded as so obvious that it can be ignored. The statement is this:\r\n\r\nIt is hard to see what you don\'t believe.','2003-04-05 04:32:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1578,1,3280,'66.81.69.134','Michael E. McNeil','MEMcNeil@got.net','http://impearls.blogspot.com/','Sandy P. writes on April 4, 2003 06:19 AM:\r\n>No, Patrick, bottom up is what has separated\r\n>America from the world since 1781(?). We\r\n>are the original rogue nation.\r\n\r\nActually America has been \"bottom up\" since long before 1781. See this excerpt from Alexis de Tocqueville\'s Democracy in America for precisely how far back.\r\n\r\nMichael\r\n\r\n','2003-04-05 04:56:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1579,1,3282,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','M. Simon is right on all counts - I am finding it difficult. The war crowded it entirely out of our rotation, but his take is worth viewing. Once it\'s all over in Iraq but the shouting, we\'ll get to his stuff and let y\'all decide.','2003-04-05 04:58:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1580,1,3287,'152.163.189.131','Barry','apache7tears@aol.com','','I know it\'s bad and uncivilized and I am a sorry shiite for saying it bu I don\'t care if these Islamikazis get the whole population of Iraq killed.\r\nMORS EX MARE','2003-04-05 06:10:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1581,1,3280,'68.62.4.187','Tom','Sorry@MyAddressIsPrivate.com','','Why, why, WHY do people do this? In all my years online, I\'ve never understood it -- the compulsion to make stuff up and disseminate it around the world. What does it serve? Who does it serve? What kind of person does it? What do they look like as they sit at their keyboard typing in something they know is completely false, ready to hit the SEND button and present it as real information?\r\n\r\nWhether it\'s the old \"Microsoft will give you $5 for forwarding this e-mail\" crap, or now this carefully honed tale about a CNN reporter, it\'s all the same: It clogs things up and makes the world spin just a little less efficiently.\r\n','2003-04-05 06:15:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1582,1,3288,'66.74.67.107','inkgrrl','kari@inkgrrl.com','http://www.inkgrrl.com/inkblog.htm','My sympathies on the occasion of this anniversary, and shabbat shalom.','2003-04-05 06:30:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1583,1,3288,'63.192.216.249','Macallan','macallan25@pacbell.net','','\r\n[sigh]\r\n\r\nAll I can say is...\r\n\r\nI know what you mean...\r\n\r\nChin up.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-05 06:32:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1584,1,3284,'205.188.209.39','button','button@nospam.com','http://eclectchap.blogspot.com','Grumble, grumble. I still have to write that response to Boutin. I have been collecting notes for it, but so far, I just don\'t feel up to it.\r\n\r\nA few updates on this topic: Jeff Jarvis posted a rumor on his BuzzMachine that he got second-hand supposedly off al-jaz.\r\n\r\nThe English-language version of al-jaz was carrying a story about sp this morning, which irked me. Then the site started going south again. And it only half-worked. I have to go back there and check to see if it\'s still there.\r\n\r\nI suspect the al-jaz rumor was in response to a story about weblogging (which mentioned sp) that appeared on VOA along with a recorded feature which may have been broadcast. This must have made the Ba\'athists tear their hair out-- imagine: someone not under their control has been sending messages out to the rest of the world! But, also intriguing: how the heck did al-jaz manage to insinuate themselves back into Baghdad? And did their reported rumor that sp was dead endear them to the regime? Hmmm.','2003-04-05 07:30:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1585,1,3278,'24.207.24.79','alphasheep','rsd@lumir.net','','No deep political analysis, just something simple... never had much love for military, being from a family of a fairly high ranking officer of Czechoslovakian army.\r\n\r\nI am also a Canadian, for almost two decades. So this may sound rather strange in the context... I am proud of US and British soldiers. I do not have any other word that would better describe what I feel.\r\n\r\nI think that I belong to an almost silent majority of Canadians that feel the same way. And it seems that leftist Canadian media are starting to notice, simply because it cannot be ignored.\r\n\r\nThe war in Iraq is waged on many fronts, not only in territory of Iraq... media is one of them. There will be big losers, because this war happens to be at a nodal point in history that would force re-evaluation all sorts of preconceptions. Liberal media with their relativistic ideology would seem hollow, a Potemkinian set with a pretty facade but devoid of residents.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-05 07:50:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1586,1,3284,'205.188.209.39','button','button@nospam.com','http://eclectchap.blogspot.com','I agree, the Barton story is nice and O.K.\r\n\r\nMeanwhile, I am slowly working up a burn at al-jaz English-language site for being irresponsible, but now I am wondering if it\'s even more sinister than that.\r\n\r\nMaybe I should just don an aluminum foil beany and quietly stew here all by myself.\r\n\r\nAh, too many plots and so little time left for that regime!','2003-04-05 07:51:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1587,1,3284,'205.188.209.39','button','button@nospam.com','http://eclectchap.blogspot.com','O.K., I just posted an entry on my blog about this Al Jazeera story.\r\n\r\nFri-Sat Overnight, April 5 - Les Mains Sales?\r\n\r\nI mean, what could they be thinking?! ','2003-04-05 09:17:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1588,1,3284,'172.165.191.34','Dan Hartung','lakefxdan@aol.com','http://www.lakefx.nu/','I\'m putting no credence to the story he was wounded, for what that\'s worth. Why (and how, pray tell) would he be in Najaf? We all know he lives in Baghdad, and he mentioned nothing about getting out of town before the invasion.\r\n\r\nAs for Al Jazeera running the story in the first place, I\'m not sure it made much difference, nor was it something that could have ultimately been prevented. (Though his stats don\'t show it, it\'s surprising he wasn\'t found and spread by bilingual Arabs before.)','2003-04-05 11:21:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1589,1,3280,'207.172.11.147','Otto-parts','krcapalm@starpower.net','','Wasn\'t it only a few months ago that Chuckie Rangel was bemoaning the disproportionately \"lower class/minority\" makeup of the armed forces? (Hard data, by the way, thoroughly debunks that assertion.) Probably now, as the wake from this operation -- THE most successful in world military history thus far -- washes over his head, he\'ll change his tune and claim credit...on behalf of \"his race\" or something. Nine years in the military taught me many things, but probably the most important was: There is no race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, regionalism, anything, when a mission is in front of you and it has to get done. I observed the same thing (to a lesser degree) after the big snowfall in DC, where neighbors who barely speak to each other were out together, working and planning and discussing how all that snow was gonna get moved from behind our cars. I\'m dead against a draft, but if any argument would sway me it would be this one: The insulated classes would get a real live experience with the \"integration\" they chatter about so often. Anyways...excellent article, Joe. ','2003-04-05 12:00:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1590,1,3280,'68.78.102.192','Fred Butzen','fred@lepanto.com','','I am a child of the \'60s - one of the boomiest of the boomers. Military service was not something that I would have considered at the time; I much preferred the extended adolesence of college undergraduate life.\r\n\r\nWell, time and the rearing of a family compelled me to grow up. And then my eldest son joined the Marine Corps. Instead of sharing my experience of playing student, he\'s travelled the world, and has held responsibilities that are beyond my experience. He is a man.\r\n\r\nThis experience has certainly opened my eyes about the U.S. military. Just visiting Camp Pendleton and seeing the people there at work, was enlightening. Seeing how my son grew and matured was another eye-opener. The newspaper reports of how well our soldiers and Marines fought in Iraq do now surprise me now: I\'ve met these people, and I know what they can do.\r\n\r\nThe biggest difference in the military today from the military in my youth is that in my day they drafted people like me (or the me I was in 1969) and today they enlist people like my son. What a world of improvement!\r\n\r\nA number of posts in this thread have lamented the fact that the \"upper classes\" do not enlist in the military. That is worrisome to a degree; but the fact is that this, like low rates of reproduction and prevalent abortion, is a symptom that entering the upper class is a dead end from a Darwinian point of view. The attributes that bring you into the media/academic/government elites also ensure that you will be sterile. We in the middle, who live our lives by living our lives (as contrasted with those who live their lives by talking about living) will have to endure the foolishness of those purport to be our superiors; but as long as American society remains mobile - as long as talent from below can work its way into positions of real influence, as long as continue to attract talent from abroad, as long as enterprises like the military continue to attract men like my son - we\'ll be all right.\r\n\r\nRegards ...','2003-04-05 13:04:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1591,1,3280,'208.187.143.160','Charles Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','','I\'m sure many of you out there have read \"Generations\" by Srauss and Howe. Their take on the immediate future of American History is coming true. We are entering the secular crisis, the one that arrives every 70-80 years. And the generational cohort that usually does the heavy lifting in the crisis (the civics, as they call them) is on time also. Fred\'s son is a classic civic, raised with care (unlike the Gen Xers) and ready to do his duty. We are about to witness the efforts of the next \"greatest generation\" and America is moving into a new phase where the whinning of the baby boomers will sound exactly like what it is---whinning. I believe the chattering classes and the academics, who live in a virtual world rather than the real one, are in for a hard time. ','2003-04-05 14:08:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1592,1,3288,'12.47.68.90','David','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','I am not aware of the anniversary you are speaking of but good thoughts go with you today. Sometimes sticking to your traditions can help, so please, no bad news today.','2003-04-05 15:17:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1593,1,3285,'208.187.72.169','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','It\'s been confirmed that seven of the eight American bodies in the 11-12 found are from the 507th Maintenance Company.\r\n\r\nMy count may be wrong, but I think that means some of the five we saw on video have been killed.\r\n\r\nWe will find out soon enough when they notify the next of kin.','2003-04-05 16:29:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1594,1,3287,'208.187.72.169','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Pat,\r\n\r\nThe one thing that the Dignity Battalions and the Fedayeen seem to have in common is that they are low firepower/low cohesion foes.\r\n\r\nThey don\'t seem able to cooperate at higher than company level, and only with difficulty at company level.\r\n\r\nThey are also notibly lacking in heavy weapons beyond RPGs.\r\n\r\nCity fighting tactics keyed to deal with such will get troops killed with someone with more firepower and the skill to use it.\r\n\r\nThe Iraqi Baathists may not be such foes, but we will bump into some eventually in the war on the terror masters.','2003-04-05 16:49:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1595,1,3287,'208.187.72.169','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','This is the attitude that the USMC is approaching the Baghdad fight with:\r\n\r\n\"Watt said Marines would do their best to avoid killing Iraqis who were not involved in the fighting, but said such a fight for the city would inevitably result in a large number of civilian deaths.\r\n\r\n\"It\'s very difficult for us to know who are the soldiers and who are the actual civilians, if we are to take the enemy out it may unfortunately be at the cost of a lot of civilian lives, unintentionally,\" he said.\r\n\r\nWatt said that if Iraqi soldiers fired from a building, Marines would respond with artillery and air attacks -- even if there were civilians still inside the structure.\r\n\r\n\"If we start taking a lot of fire, we will simply level the building area, we\'ll destroy it with indirect fire and air and tanks. Then we\'ll go in with ground forces. That\'s when you get civilians who choose not to leave, and they\'re going to die in the process,\" he said.\"\r\n\r\nhttp://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2513340\r\n','2003-04-05 16:58:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1597,1,3290,'68.48.0.7','David Foster','photoncourier@yahoo.com','http://photoncourier.blogspot.com','Actually, Kipling spoke highly of the fighting skills of the Fuzzy-Wuzzies:\r\n\r\nSo \'ere\'s to you, Fuzzy-Wuzzy, at your \'ome in the Soudan; \r\n You\'re a pore benighted \'eathen but a first-class fightin\' man; \r\n An\' \'ere\'s to you, Fuzzy-Wuzzy, with your \'ayrick \'ead of \'air -- \r\n You big black boundin\' beggar -- for you broke a British square! \r\n','2003-04-05 17:03:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1598,1,3290,'64.220.209.82','bkw','ben@fuzzygeek.com','','not to be callous or anything, but wouldn\'t you rather have the \"dedicated\" come out and die now, instead of melting into the populace to wage eternal guerilla war on us/them later?','2003-04-05 17:36:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1599,1,3290,'12.207.130.197','Sandy P.','fakeaddy@hotmail.com','','If we don\'t kill them, the Iraqis will.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-05 17:57:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1600,1,3290,'66.166.52.147','Keith Aaron','lucidity1775@hotmail.com','','Just wondering how accurate that email to Bill O\'Reilly really is. Does anyone know how a commander would be able to send email at this time? It seems odd to me, but maybe it\'s not.\r\n\r\nAlso, how did we get a hold of this message? I\'m new here, does Bill O\'Reilly post? Is it the real Bill O\'Reilly or billoreilly@hotmail.com?\r\n\r\nThanks,\r\nKeith','2003-04-05 18:12:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1601,1,3285,'208.187.72.169','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','This is the latest on PfC. Lynch\'s rescue:\r\n\r\nhttp://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGA9WIEQ5ED.html','2003-04-05 18:19:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1602,1,3290,'208.187.72.169','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Keith,\r\n\r\n One of the links I put at the beginning of my post is a link to the Bill O\'Reilly article that e-mail came from.','2003-04-05 18:21:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1603,1,3290,'12.254.166.252','Charles Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','','Bill OReily read a portion of this email on his show last night. In Culture and Carnage, Victor Hansen pointed out that these kill ratios would always occur when a western disciplined army met an undisciplined, despotic opponent (See Lapeto or Cortez in Mexico or Rourke\'s Drift or Tet). This really is the cakewalk Rumsfeld was supposed to have predicted. Having read Hansen\'s book, I had no doubt that Rumsfeld would be right. Last night on Fox I heard an officer in the field say that his unit had been studying the tactics and battle order of the Medina Division for the past six months, so we had these guys pretty well figured out long before we hit the ground. The talk of these kill ratios, finally out of the bag, must be driving the NYT and the academics nuts.','2003-04-05 19:12:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1604,1,3285,'208.187.72.169','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','None of the five video taped American prisoners were among the dead bodies found with Pfc. Lynch.','2003-04-05 19:26:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1605,1,3290,'205.242.224.247','AST','athorpe@etv.net','','Does anybody remember the bodycount reports that came out everyday during the Vietnam war? I think that it\'s pretty hard to get accurate figures, and all it does is rev up the Anti-war crowd. How about the figures on how many have surrendered and saved their lives?\r\n\r\nThis is a totalitarian state we\'re taking down. It places very little value on human lives. There were millions killed on both sides in the war between Iraq and Iran. I am not persuaded that our men are bloodthirsty killers. We have to win this, and rid the country of this infection. How many people have died in North Korea because we were sick of war? ','2003-04-05 21:16:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1606,1,3290,'68.52.70.6','Donald Sensing','thisis@notit.com','http://www.donaldsensing.com/','The Zulu army that fought the British at Rorke\'s Drift was not despotic and it certainly was not undisciplined. The Zulus were well trained, superbly disciplined and led and intelligently organized. ','2003-04-06 01:08:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1607,1,3290,'4.60.23.78','Samuel Tai','taiss@gte.net','','Reverend Sensing,\r\n\r\nI respectfully disagree. The Zulus at Rourke\'s Drift had abominable fire discipline.','2003-04-06 01:35:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1608,1,3267,'142.177.168.54','anti-fantasy boy','afb@hotmail.com','','where the hell did you come up with that? were you there watching? well, why didn\'t you help her then? oh, what\'s that?... you just dreamt it up? turn the tv off dude it\'s wastin your mind. why does everything have to be so dramatic? beat her with a metal pipe eh? why not a wooden stick or a piece of rebar or an aluminum baseball bat or an axe handle or maybe the had a camel sit on her..yeah that\'s it - those smelly bastards and their smelly camels sat on her and pulled her hair with green rubber-handled pliers etc etc... jesus buddy you sound like this is your spank stuff, like you enjoy imagining details of how she was humiliated. don\'t speculate get some facts. think critically. we have not been given much info yet. i\'m sure the truth is scarry enough without embelshment.','2003-04-06 04:35:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1609,1,3275,'66.81.65.183','Jeffery','greensbrother@yahoo.com','','It is an impressive new fighting force that we have put into action in Iraq and the technology is not perfect but it is an order of magnitude better than anything previously seen in use to limit civilian deaths. I didn\'t want this to happen and feel that our current leaders decided to put their peace plan for the region into action no matter how many American\'s told them no. They lied to us right and left to confuse the real motives that are behind their actions and I\'m not ok with that. But I\'ll admit that the reality of becoming the world\'s police force and cooling down these troubled areas is one I can understand and agree with. Anyone who drives their car to protest this war looses all credibility in my eyes because you can\'t have one without the other. I support our brave military men and women 100% and say good job people. I regret that protesting the lies our leaders have used to put these soldiers in harms way will soon be punishable as an act of terrorism as our basic freedoms of speech and assembly are removed. Considering the actions of many of these future terrorists there will be few mourning their incarceration nor realizing the cost we as Americans will pay for the false promise of safety offered in exchange for those rights.','2003-04-06 04:36:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1610,1,3287,'67.121.92.208','chris t','cdt7_blues_fan@yahoo.com','','Pat,\r\nThanks for the informative post. Do you recall if the Panamanians take off their uniforms? From what I read in Shadow Warriors, the Panamanians were nowhere near as ruthless as the Fedayeen.','2003-04-06 04:54:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1611,1,3267,'68.50.8.225','DavidBowman','davetocus@hotmail.com','','> where the hell did you come up with that? \r\n\r\nmost of this message board consists of speculation about what happened to her.\r\n\r\n\r\n> beat her with a metal pipe eh? why not a wooden stick or a piece of rebar or an aluminum baseball bat or an axe handle or maybe the had a camel sit on her.\r\n\r\nBecause:\r\n\"Her broken bones are a sure sign of torture\", said Amy Waters Yarsinske, an ex-Navy intelligence officer and an expert on POW treatment\". \"Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein\'s thugs are known to use steel bars to bash their prisoners\' limbs\", she said. \r\n\r\nThat\'s why.\r\n\r\n\r\n> buddy you sound like this is your spank stuff\r\n\r\nYou\'re one SICK motherfucker. I know it\'s only a sample of two, but my wife, sitting next to me as I type, thinks you\'re a sick motherfucker too.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-06 05:24:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1612,1,3290,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','It always takes a while for an army to master new weapons. In WW2, ther French tried to use tanks as movable bunkers - missed the point entirely, of course, except for this maverick general named DeGaulle who actually beat the Germans in a couple of battles.\r\n\r\nThe Zulus had rifles, but were not given the time to translate the capability into doctrine. Like so many armies before them, they simply took the new technology and adapted it to a doctrine they already knew. At Rourke\'s Drift and elsewhere, that didn\'t serve them well. That was their fault, not their discipline or leadership or battlefield organization.\r\n\r\nSamuel has a better point re: despotism, which may have slowed the Zulus\' adaptation process to using the newer weapons en masse.','2003-04-06 06:14:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1613,1,3267,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Folks,\r\n\r\nWe\'re way off topic here. This stuff may have happened. It may not. We can conjecture, but we can\'t know. Beyond a certain point, I\'m not sure it\'s necessary to know.\r\n\r\nThe points I\'d like to see addressed are more along the lines of: what to do about it? Does this affect the concept of sending women into combat-possible positions? What kinds of responses might deter future enemies? That sort of thing.\r\n\r\nThis won\'t be the last time the USA deals with such opponents, after all.','2003-04-06 06:21:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1614,1,3287,'12.90.119.107','Patrick E. Walsh','walshp@worldnet.att.net','','Folks: Good comments. Here are my responses to Trent and Chris t. \r\n\r\n\r\nTrent said: \"City fighting tactics keyed to deal with such will get troops killed with someone with more firepower and the skill to use it.\"\r\n\r\nand he quoted a Marine Commander:\r\n\r\n\"If we start taking a lot of fire, we will simply level the building area, we\'ll destroy it with indirect fire and air and tanks. Then we\'ll go in with ground forces. That\'s when you get civilians who choose not to leave, and they\'re going to die in the process,\" \r\n\r\nMy response:\r\n\r\nRemember that I said we will respond appropriately based on the situation. \r\n\r\nMy post did not preclude a \"knock \'em down approach\" if that was needed. And I imagine that we will in fact use M-1 Tanks and 155 mm Self Propelled artillery in the counter-sniper mode. But such actions will be confined to a specific building in a specific area, against a specific force. A block away, we may only be doing mounted and dismounted patrols. \r\n\r\nOn the other hand what we probably will not do, probably cannot do and in my opinion definately should not do, is try to clear a city the size of Los Angles by getting on line at one end and systematically levelling it or kicking in doors and tossing hand grenades in rooms until we get to the other side. (not that that is what you or Marine Commander are advocating)\r\n\r\nI also do not recommend and pray that we will not be using the Israeli tactics used in Jenin. The Israelis faced a force a lot like the Fedayeen who were determined to resist, who had taken civilian hostages, occupied a sacred site and had booby trapped the buildings. The Israelis tried to use semi-traditional enter and clear techniques with some new twists. \r\n\r\nSo, if you aren\'t going to get \"on line\" and clear from front to back what are you going to do? Well, start by deciding what the most important objectives are (based on either political or pyschological or tactical factors) and eiter seize the terrain features or destroy the enemy unit using appropriate tactics. Then work from there to isolate the bad guys from the good guys and either kill or capture the bad guys. Which is basically what I predicted above.\r\n\r\nIf some significant force has sufficient fire power potential and the will to dig in and fight, then that may mean a real battle. But, I believe that will only happen in a couple of limited locations. Maybe a building here or a three or four block area there.\r\n\r\nI described how this would happen in a little more detail about three weeks ago over at One Hand Clapping at that was linked here. \r\n\r\nFaced with a Jenin type situation I think we will probably just seal it off and wait them out. If that isn\'t appropriate then we will try a bunch of different things before levelling the entire block.\r\n\r\n\r\nSecond, the tactics I believe we will use are in fact simply adaptations of tactics developed during WWII to fight both the Japanese and Germans, both of which I would count as high firepower and high cohesion. Gen William DePuy in his oral history \"To Change and Army\" describes how his unit attacked German held positions in cities. They infiltrated in squad size units to sieze lightly or undefended buildings during the night and then when daytime came they assessed the situation and maneuvered against the remaining Germans. He thought this was superior to systematic clearance of urban areas. We also made heavy use of Psyops to try to avoid having to fight, whenever we could. In the Pacific, a combat intelligence \"lessons learned\" book, the title of which, I cannot remember; relates that Americans in New Guinea developed an approach to fighting the Japanese the called \"Go where they ain\'t\" in which American forces would maneuver around the main Japanese force to seize key terrain and then develop the situation from there. Strategically McArthur\'s Island Hopping campaigns were \"Go where they ain\'t\" writ large.\r\nSo was, in some respects, the 3ID and 1st Mar Div sprint up the Tigris Euphrates valley.\r\n\r\nOf course the historical, practical and theoretical roots of such tactics go back even further than WWII.\r\n\r\nChris t wrote:\r\n\r\n\"Do you recall if the Panamanians take off their uniforms? From what I read in Shadow Warriors, the Panamanians were nowhere near as ruthless as the Fedayeen.\"\r\n\r\nMy response: Yep, some did. In fact the Dignity Battalions were mostly civilian clothed to begin with if I recall correctly. Some PDF and other Noreiga henchmen tried to go underground. And, yep you are right, they werent nearly as ruthless as these guys or as committed or as well trained. But I don\'t think that changes the basic approach we will take. It may make it harder to carry out but I don\'t think it will change it.\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n','2003-04-06 08:11:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1615,1,3290,'66.27.50.74','Steven Den Beste','sdenbes1@san.rr.com','http://denbeste.nu','AP reports:\r\n\r\nBetween 2,000 and 3,000 Iraqi fighters were killed as the 3rd Infantry Division moved through southwestern Baghdad, U.S. Central Command spokesman Jim Wilkinson said.\r\n\r\nThe raid Saturday was the first incursion into the Iraqi capital, and was designed to send a message to both the Iraqi leadership and civilians that coalition forces could move into the city at will, said Air Force Maj. Gen. Gene Renuart. It took troops on a 25-mile run through a corner of Baghdad.\r\n','2003-04-06 10:31:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1616,1,3290,'12.47.68.56','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','In an information age you wonder why people waste their time sowing misinformation. A Russian general yesterday reported that the coalition troops were in disaray and about to colapse.\r\nAnother Russian site gave info supposedly gleaned from radio intercepts, inflating our loss of life many times what is officialy reported in the U.S., although nothing near the Iraqi casualty numbers. The Iraqis themselves must be on L.S.D. with the reports they try to publish. Let\'s hope that things continue on schedule. The more horrificly this goes, the less likely we are to have to repeat it again any time soon. Publicize it, show pictures of their dead, their mourning survivors. Let the world know, negotiate and settle, don\'t fight.','2003-04-06 15:05:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1617,1,3290,'67.210.226.8','BarCodeKing','barcodeking@hotmail.com','http://barcodeking.blogspot.com/','Another thing to mention is that the Iraqis will KNOW that they have been defeated when this is over, and that it is only through our kindness and mercy that Iraqi civilian casualties are negligible compared to the tanker-load of Whup-Ass™ that has been opened on the Iraqi military forces. This may make them more malleable when the time comes to de-Ba\'athify their society and put them on the road to secular democracy.','2003-04-06 16:06:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1618,1,3267,'80.225.63.214','Ron Will','rwill@lineone.net','','I am a Scotsman and feel very proud to hear of Jessica Lynch\'s bravery. Bush , should as per previous post award her the highest gallantry medal available and give every assistance to her and her family to aid her recovery. Blair should do the same to her and the Black Watch soldier in the form of the Victoria Cross for \' Courage and Gallantry in the face of the enemy \'. With all my heart I pray she was not raped. Somehow deep within, I feel she was..','2003-04-06 17:03:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1619,1,3290,'216.190.71.145','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','I keep running accross reports like this one from the Independent (UK):\r\n\r\n\"His cameraman, Mal James, filmed what appeared to be sporadic attacks by rocket-propelled grenades and dilapidated pick-up trucks being rammed against the advancing tanks. Scattered along the dual carriageway were the smoking, sometimes flaming, remains of vehicles already destroyed by the convoy. \"Some of these vehicles that have come at us were clearly civilian vehicles,\" said Kelly, in the report, which was later relayed by most news networks. \"In those cases, we saw warning shots fired, the operators of the armoured vehicles waving their hands saying \'go back, go back\', and they returned to where they were coming from uninjured.\"\r\n\r\nhttp://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=394480\r\n\r\nIt is clear that many Iraqi casualties are from their fanatics committing \"Suicide by Abrams\" as they literally drive pick-ups right up under the treads of our tanks and other armored fighting vehicles.\r\n\r\n\"De-Ba\'athification\" of Iraq is not going to be an issue if Saddam\'s bully boys keep pulling this stunt over and over.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-04-06 17:30:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1620,1,3275,'208.177.194.146','Eric Rolph','nospam@span.net','','Stereotyping from any side of debate or discussion does nothing to further a positive discussion about divisive issues. On, the otherhand, I feel stereotypes lend well to isolation and contempt.\r\n\r\nSometimes I like to isolate myself because of the overwhelming failures I witness in others attempts to create peace, undestanding, and mutual accord. And in that way, I might say, \"You fucking idiots.\" Leave it up to yourself whom I might be directing that statement toward.','2003-04-06 17:44:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1621,1,3267,'63.90.92.60','Wirt County HOME OF JESSIE LYNCH','w@wirt.com','http://dear.to/jessicalynch','I dont\' want to be a hard knuckle, as we call it here, but all this speculation is what starts the rumors.\r\nI live here in Wirt county, I know the Lynch family and have seen first hand what all this speculation has done to them.\r\nI know there will always be speculation, but doesn\'t it pay to get the facts first? All it does is hurt the innocent.\r\nI am not trying to step on toes, but to Wirt County, the whole intire Coalation forces are HEROES! Each and every one of them.\r\nI also wanted to say, We here in Wirt County, including Palestine and Elizabeth pray for those families who weren\'t as lucky as the Lynch\'s to find out their loved ones were alive. But, sometimes I also wonder if Jessie was the lucky one. How much of her life is ruined by what she indured, Will she ever lead a normal life?\r\nI admit, to have her alive is great news to all of us, but ???\r\nAll my prayers to all the men and women fighting for what they believe in- us and our freedom, and the innocent who were forced to live life in Iraq under a Sadistic Evil Ruler.\r\nMay God bless them all.','2003-04-06 17:54:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1622,1,3286,'68.109.209.187','Rob','robgski@hotmail.com','','Maybe the word \"cunning\" would be better.\r\n\r\nGreat stuff.','2003-04-06 18:32:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(109449,1,10058,'209.159.228.61','Glen Wishard','nadi55us@aol.com','http://canisiratus.blogspot.com','I would choose Haiti, of course, on the theory that it has to be easier to cross the border into the Dominican Republic than it is to swim to the Florida Keys.','2008-02-22 05:22:11','2008-02-21 21:22:11',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1625,1,3290,'64.209.27.106','fuck you ass holes','fuckyou@asshole.com','','MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, \r\n','2003-04-06 18:50:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1626,1,3290,'64.209.27.106','fuck you ass holes','fuckyou@asshole.com','','MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, MURDER,MURDER, \r\n','2003-04-06 18:51:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1627,1,3290,'205.188.209.39','barry','apache7tears@aol.com','','MURDER? \r\nNo, It\'s varmint extermination and eradication.\r\nThis news gives me a hard on OOOhhhhrrraaaaaa!\r\n \r\n\r\nKill every son of allah (or daughter) that stands up to fight, kill them ruthlessly! when you do remember that incident on 9/11 remember the woman who jumped from the top to her death, remember the stewardess who had their throats slashec with box cutters, remember the POW\'s and the executed Troopers from the 507th, and slay them, smite them, kill them.\r\n ','2003-04-06 19:41:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1628,1,3031,'66.213.16.120','Maureen','frodob@collegeclub.com','','Hi, my name is Maureen and I am trying to find out all that I can about Peter Ginz for a possible play and/or book that would pay tribute to him. I first heard about him when I heard that astronaut Col.Ilan Ramon had taken his drawing with him into space.\r\n\r\n I was just wondering if anyone had any information about Peter Ginz that I can use to help me with my work. \r\n I would be much obliged and any info that you could give would be greatly appreciated and needed. \r\n\r\n Thanks so much! ','2003-04-06 20:42:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1629,1,3290,'12.253.10.228','zombyboy','resurrectionsong@yahoo.com','http://resurrectionsong.blog-city.com','I submit that this is a just war. Therefor, the murder charge is something that I\'ll ignore. I am thrilled that the friendly losses have been so low, that the cost has been so light.\r\n\r\nThat said, I refuse to glory in the deaths of that many Iraqis. The world will be a better place when this is done, but deaths on that scale should not be celebrated. Most of those soldiers are not evil--not by a long shot. \r\n\r\nLet\'s celebrate the fact that we are winning and doing so quickly. Let\'s celebrate the fact that, hopefully, the reward for this will be a safer world and a free Iraq.\r\n\r\nLet\'s not celebrate death, though. This war is, as any just war is, a tragic necessity.','2003-04-06 21:08:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1630,1,3290,'172.171.10.219','Andrew X','druu222@aol.com','','Hey F.Y.A.H. -\r\n\r\nWhat are you trying to say? I\'m missing the point.','2003-04-06 21:32:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1631,1,3290,'12.246.71.234','Tim','tj@hotmail.com','','Zombyboy is right - the war is just, but we shouldn\'t relish the enemy deaths. Is it necessary they die? No doubt about that. F.Y.A.H. is not only factually wrong - he is morally wrong. And to the extend our guys are engaging Fedayeed Saddams or other terrorist-related fighters - so much the better. After all, our guys are both the cheese and the mousetrap - and Iraq will be better if there are fewer rather than more of these Ba\'athist thugs left after the war.','2003-04-07 00:50:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1632,1,3290,'24.210.247.181','brian','no@email.com','','F.Y.A.H. - Thanks for providing a great example of the \"peace\" movement in action. Not only stupid, but totally ineffective in making your case (presuming you even have one you could articulate), and morally bankrupt as well. Good show. ','2003-04-07 01:19:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1633,1,3290,'4.60.23.78','Samuel Tai','taiss@gte.net','','I second Tim\'s and zombyboy\'s sentiments. Let all the Islamic movements try to pile on in Iraq. Better they be out in the open, in desert terrain, where we can see them and continue to maintain these kill ratios.\r\n\r\nThis is just the last gasp of a discredited philosphy of the world. Just like the Japanese learned to their sorrow in WW2, suicide tactics and spiritual purity are no match for superior firepower and discipline. All these can do is to prolong the inevitable.\r\n\r\nHell, it\'s better that Al Jazeera continue to spew their lies. That way, more of the enemy will lose their heads and come on the battlefield with no plan, no training, and no hope.','2003-04-07 03:03:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1634,1,3276,'66.81.79.124','Jeffery Faulk','greensbrother@yahoo.com','','By making such mistakes and taking responsibility for them along with correcting them puts him firmly on the path that leads to wisdom. The experience gained cannot be bought and I for one will forgive and move on. I am in no position to tell others what to do but it has been my experience that holding anger against someone causes damage to both parties with no positive results all around. Hopefully others will follow your lead and lighten up. ','2003-04-07 03:13:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1635,1,3290,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Actually, Zombyboy, most of the hostiles being faced now in Iraq most certainly ARE evil people. The rest abandoned the battlefield long ago. \r\n\r\nGoing up against an Abrams in a pickup is a legitimate choice in war, but it\'s kind of like trying to ram a full dump truck in a Mini - only one party gets hurt. Since the pickup drivers all seem to be the same people who murdered, raped and terrorized their way across Iraq for the last 25 years or so, I can\'t say I\'m shedding any tears. If Hezbollah, Hamas et. al. wish to join this little party too, that\'s also fine by me. Just makes for fewer crazed killers to bother civilized people later.\r\n\r\nThe one part of Samuel\'s comment I can\'t agree with is that the philosophy is discredited. That hasn\'t happened yet - but if Iran throws out its Islamic theocracy in a popular uprising, that could change.','2003-04-07 04:04:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1636,1,3290,'216.190.145.170','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','F.Y.A.H.,\r\n\r\nMURDER?\r\n\r\nNope. Try pest control.\r\n\r\nBut please do keep up your primal screaming. It will help re-elect George W. Bush and get a filibuster proof Republican Senate in 2004.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-07 05:04:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1637,1,3290,'216.190.145.170','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','F.Y.A.H.\r\n\r\nRead the article here and weep.','2003-04-07 05:07:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1638,1,3254,'209.115.12.174','Hawk','rthawkcom@yahoo.com','http://www.rthawk.com/hawk','Uh, hello! Did anyone notice that this was posted on April 1st?? Hum. What occurs on April first?? Granted I am a stupid bird, but isn\'t that..oh.. APRIL FOOLS DAY!?!\r\n\r\nGezz!!!\r\n','2003-04-07 05:23:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1639,1,3290,'64.156.36.17','zombyboy','resurrectionsong@yahoo.com','http://resurrectionsong.blog-city.com','Joe,\r\nI can\'t agree with you on that. I think there are still a tremendous number of soldiers who are frightened for the safety of their families, frightened for their own lives, or simply believing that we\'ll leave again and let Saddam begin his bloody retribution.\r\n\r\nEven if you are right, though, I still can\'t feel good about that many deaths. I still can\'t feel that good about this:\r\n\r\nYou would not believe the carnage. Imagine body parts about knee deep, with hundreds of (Iraqi) vehicles burning, occupants inside. We fill up trucks with body parts daily.
\r\n\r\nI\'ve been, and will continue to be a vocal supporter of the President, the war effort, the military, and our allies. This doesn\'t mean I feel good inside when I think of that many people dying for a stupid cause. Certainly, they are making a choice and bear that ultimate responsibility for what happens on the battlefield.\r\n\r\nI still pity them.\r\n\r\nI do agree that I would be thrilled if every damned terrorist in the world decided to join the fight and martyr themselves for their cause. But I think that you\'re fooling yourself if you think that those are the only types that are left out on the battlefield.\r\n\r\nI also agree that the movement hasn\'t been discredited. I think we did throw a bit of a surprise their way by reacting without the UN, reacting without many of our normal allies, and having the balls to carry through with a war when they didn\'t believe that we would. Still, there\'s a long way to go before the war against terrorism is completed.\r\n\r\nAgain, though, even if you are 100% correct, I still won\'t feel good about the dead. I won\'t shed any tears, but I won\'t applaud their deaths, either. In my mind it remains tragic necessity.\r\n\r\nBy the way, this is a great site--it\'s quickly become one of my favorite reads.','2003-04-07 05:52:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1640,1,3290,'64.156.36.17','zombyboy','resurrectionsong@yahoo.com','http://resurrectionsong.blog-city.com','Trent--\r\nA filibuster-proof Republican Senate.\r\n\r\nAhh, to dream a beautiful dream.','2003-04-07 05:54:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1641,1,3239,'4.65.246.250','Norman','iconoclast@portalofevil.com','','You kids are ridiculous. If they have any sort of intelligence agency tracking this kid down would be easy. Look at the amount of info news agencies and other people have uncovered. So I think someone trained specifically for this task would have a bit of an easier time. So no amount of petitioning google, or anyone else is going to help.. other then to clear your conscience if something was to happen to him. ','2003-04-07 13:09:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1642,1,3239,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Norman, the key is how much time and trouble that agency is willing to devote to the task. For the last couple of weeks, the answer is probably \"not much\". In that environment, simple measures that increase the difficulty can be effective.\r\n\r\nThe rapid U.S. adsvance into Baghdad is probably the best possible news from Salam Pax\'s point of view, as Saddam\'s goons are now far more concerned with direct survival than anything else. The most dangerous situation would have been a long Basra-like siege - in that environment, the odds would definitely be against him for the reasons you point out.','2003-04-07 15:23:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1643,1,3293,'24.90.251.209','someone','no@one.no','','The best golfer is Thai.','2003-04-07 16:32:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1644,1,3276,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net/','Hmm. WIRED News has an article that discusses the whole issue in much more detail. I\'m willing to forgive, I hold no anger, and I believe that the things I wrote about the reasons for Sean-Paul\'s success remain true. Still, the article does make the depth of the issues with Sean-Paul\'s conduct clear. It also casts some doubt on my earlier understanding re: a happy ending all around, and how forthright he was about this.\r\n\r\nIf you\'re reading this, you\'ve read the background and the comments debate. Read the WIRED article and decide for yourself.','2003-04-07 16:56:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1645,1,3286,'131.17.129.20','J S Allison','johnalli@swbell.net','','Fleet zero refers to an average value that is used as the starting point value when zeroing the tanks. Most of the tanks will be acceptably accurate with this average value. Those that aren\'t are fired to determine the necessary values for that particular vehicle (discrete zero). Most tanks that have a discrete value could probably be fixed to use the fleet values but the process can prove time consuming and expensive. Easier, cheaper and faster to use a discrete zero.\r\n\r\nMoi is a recovering Armor Master Gunner, as well.','2003-04-07 17:10:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1646,1,3291,'12.253.10.228','zombyboy','resurrectionsong@yahoo.com','http://resurrectionsong.blog-city.com','Actually, it\'s kind of cute when the liberal types say things like \"Marines with the 101st Airborne Division.\" It\'s a nice little reminder of how much we have to take care of them--they really can\'t function on their own, you know.','2003-04-07 17:57:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1647,1,3275,'65.70.187.242','Phil Weber','phil@phweber.com','','So the old lady doesn\'t even seem to understand the cause for which her husband died. That\'s truly a shame.\r\n\r\nI\'m so tired of hearing that those who are protesting are unpatriotic or -- as I was called yesterday -- \"parasites of freedom.\" \r\n\r\nThe fact of the matter is, though I am a pacifist, I would have hopped a plane to Afghanistan to shoot bin Laden myself -- and I would have slept like a baby afterward -- if I had had the chance. That\'s because he was a real threat.\r\n\r\nBut Saddam has never been a threat to the US. After two weeks of war there are still no chemical or bio weapons. (Sure, we may eventually find them, but they certainly don\'t seem to be pervasive). There is even some evidence that the Bush administration forged documents to make it look like Iraq had a nuclear program -- and there is positively zero evidence of any such weapons.\r\n\r\nOsama bin Laden only became interested in bringing down the US after what he perceived as meddling in Arab affairs in Gulf War I. So now that we are back -- with no UN mandate and in opposition to world opinion -- how many new bin Ladens are we creating?\r\n\r\nWhen I protest this war I do so because the President, who had never been off the continent before his election, is a fool with no understanding of the world around him. I am protesting to keep our troops home and all of us safe from more terror.\r\n\r\nLet\'s address actual threats: North Korea and the remnants of al Qaeda, not some ficticious enemy that the CEO-in-chief has concocted.','2003-04-07 18:18:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1648,1,3254,'144.160.98.27','jeff','crap@craphole.com','','If there is no record of him before Dec 2002, how do they know he is 44?','2003-04-07 18:43:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1649,1,3157,'198.26.132.101','Christine','quip1320@excite.com','','I have to agree with Sara on each and every post. I am an AFA graduate, a female, and I was sexually assualted while attending so I feel very entitled to my opinions. The media has royally screwed up this coverage. It is ridiculous and one-sided. Rape happens everywhere...until we rid society of it, you will never have 0 rapes at the Academy. Sure, no rapists have been charged from the Academy...when a case boils down to he said/she said can YOU, beyond a reasonable doubt, convict someone? I know I couldn\'t. Sure the Academy needs to educate the cadets more on the subject, yes if the leadership swept things under the rug they should be dismissed, but this by no means implys that men graduating from the Academy are to be declared rapists. I wouldn\'t change a thing about my time at the Academy. Eventhough I was raped, the Academy supported me and helped me through this terrible time in my life. Amazed by that?? Well, the media fails to mention that the Academy has a tremendous support system for victims and the institution does everything in it\'s power to help a woman or man (yes, men get raped too!) get their life back and graduate. I would argue that if the women on 20/20 REALLY wanted to graduate as they say they do, they could have gotten the help and gotten through it. I\'m living proof! \r\n\r\nHere, here, Sara!! Stay strong!','2003-04-07 19:00:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1650,1,3286,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Thanks, J.S. - we\'ll fix that ASAP, with attribution!','2003-04-07 19:48:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1651,1,3295,'63.214.72.81','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','Re: Update 4\r\n\r\n\"The Ladies From Hell\" are on the case again! They earned that soubriquet in Europe from the Germans during WWII when the Piper led charges on various enemy sites! \r\n','2003-04-07 20:55:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1652,1,3296,'207.168.131.215','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','For freakin cryin out loud, your mother called, she\'s dyin here, take off your shoes and clean that place up. She doesn\'t want everyone thinkin you were born in a barn. Are the bidets gold plated too?','2003-04-07 21:29:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1653,1,3296,'63.166.226.84','Stephen','stephen@shadowshow.net','','Now that is a beautiful, beautiful sight.','2003-04-07 21:58:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1654,1,3296,'64.60.153.178','Lanny','lnphoenix@aol.com','','\"Baghdad is safe in American\'s hands\", the Ministry of Information said.','2003-04-07 22:16:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1655,1,3275,'12.211.70.77','wmscott','wmscott@wa.net','','This was written by Teddy Roosevelt and printed on the inside cover of the bible biven to every American Soldier as they left ot liberate Europe in WWI.\r\n\r\n The teaching of the New Testament is foreshadowed in Micah’s verse: “What more doth the Lord require of thee than to do justice, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God.” Do justice; and therefore fight valiantly against those that stand for the reign of Moloch and Beelzebub on this earth. Love mercy; treat your enemies well; succor the afflicted; treat every woman as if she were your sister; care for the little children; and be tender with the old and helpless. Walk humbly; you will do so if you study the life and teachings of the Savior, walking in His steps. And remember: the most perfect machinery of government will not keep us as a nation from destruction if there is not within us a soul. No abounding of material prosperity shall avail us if our spiritual senses atrophy. The foes of our own household will surely prevail against us unless there be in our people an inner life which finds its outward expression in a morality like unto that preached by the seers and prophets of God when the grandeur that was Greece and the glory that was Rome still lay in the future.\r\n\r\nI believe we are seeing this wish put into action by our soldiers now. I am very proud of them all! ','2003-04-08 00:08:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1656,1,3296,'67.64.143.113','rocket','dn_warren@hotmail.com','','Picture of the year.','2003-04-08 00:28:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1657,1,3296,'65.27.164.35','Charles','ankchank@yahoo.com','','Caption is...\r\n\r\n\"Pardon me, but would anyone have any Grey Poupon? I\'m mean French\'s Yel... ahhh... ketchup. Anyone have any freaking ketchup!\"','2003-04-08 01:06:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1658,1,3296,'212.202.192.221','Eric','spamle@mig.net','http://youbitch.org','God, I hope that\'s somewhere in Paris.','2003-04-08 02:57:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1659,1,3254,'64.12.96.104','Randy','SMARTRJSARTIST@aol.com','','I\'m surprised we have not heard anything more about this, if it was a hoax then why are we not being informed? The FBI definetly wants to try to discredit this individual, this man has leverage against these people, advanced knowledge, so if they let him go and he does dissapear into the future do you realy think they would admit it, someone he left behind is very wealthy! If you don\'t think he can\'t bribe his way out, you better think twice, 350 million dollars! I don\'t know if this is true or not, but physicists do say time travel is possible, and god said, \"time does not exist in my world\". That means everything is happening at once, so time is realy an illusion of the third dimension, hard to believe, I never experienced this so I can not say time travel does exist, if it is true they will never tell, who would believe them, and how do you prove it, but if he is lying they will make a mockery of him! There is a strong possibility this was a joke, but who knows, just imagine trying to tell somebody two hundred years ago that humans will travel to the moon, they would laugh at you and probably lock you up. This is fun stuff, real or not real.','2003-04-08 04:01:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1660,1,3297,'129.100.154.193','Patrick Brown','brown5@uwo.ca','','I agree with you that GWB will benefit from having taken this risk, for one thing because it was a calculated risk, and he has shown that he is good at calculating. People will like that. But there are also other reasons that have to do with the question \"Where do we put our feet?\"\r\n\r\nI heard today that the price of gold went down. I wondered at the time why the report put it that way, instead of saying that the price of dollars went up. Perhaps it is because we are used to buying things with dollars, so don\'t think in terms of buying dollars. But when you sell gold, that\'s what you\'re doing.\r\n\r\nSimilarly, we are used to having politicians rated and inspected and analysed by the media and professors. But how are we to rate the media and the professors? How are we to know when they are doing a good job in assessing political leaders? One of the things that has come out of this war is an answer to that question. We have witnessed the courage, competence, compassion, and idealism - a new C3I - of the soldiers. They are from us: there are 300,000 of them and 600 reporters. The soldiers are us, and through them we have ranged the media. And that is good news for GWB, given the media\'s implacable opposition to him.\r\n\r\nAt the same time, Armed Liberal, I\'m less concerned with what you call the \"common strain\" of playing it safe. I\'d like to suggest an analogy to what Thomas Kuhn, in his book, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, called normal and revolutionary science. Most scientists spend most of their careers in normal science, in which there is little debate about what the questions are, or what the research techniques are. Every now and then, someone like Einstein introduces a period of revolutionary science in which everything changes - vocabulary, theory, issues, methods. But then, a new normal science arises.\r\n\r\nPerhaps something similar happens in politics, but the revolution comes not from an extraordinary individual, but from the people, at least in a democracy. No matter what elitists say, the US electorate is educated, knowledgeable, and sophisticated. If they respond to politicians who play it safe, perhaps that is because there is nothing that they see as worth a risk at the moment. With little reward available, it makes little sense to opt for risk. But when something like 9/11 happens, suddenly there is lots of reward available: personal and national security, payback, pre-emption of further attacks. With reward available, it makes sense to take risks. So, we could argue that people make a judgment: when they elect risk-averse politicians, they are saying, we don\'t see the reward. Today, the reward is on the table, so the voters are staying in.\r\n\r\nOf course, at the time that risk becomes attractive, a society may not have the leader who can offer the risky program they want. Churchill was not Prime Minister of England when the WWII started. He became PM soon thereafter. But this time, the US was lucky. GWB was already President. If he hadn\'t been, I think people would have drafted him before too long.','2003-04-08 04:04:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1661,1,3297,'211.28.96.68','Meyer Rafael','meyer.rafael@pacificlake.com','http://www.blogofmep.blogspot.com','I absolutely agree with your observations on the excellence of Henry V, Shakespeare\'s view of leadership, the role of moral clarity and courage...\r\nBranagh\'s adaptation is superb.','2003-04-08 04:06:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1662,1,3297,'12.211.180.10','mike van winkle','mike@armchairanalyst.net','http://www.armchairanalyst.net','And what if Henry had lost England...how would history have judged him?','2003-04-08 04:40:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1663,1,3296,'68.61.68.53','matt','webspinner@infinitethread.com','','Aren\'t these the coalition troops who aren\'t anywhere near Baghdad? Aren\'t these the guys trapped and committing suicide on the walls of the city? Aren\'t these the guys who ran in disgrace from the glorious Iraqi shepards who have retaken the airport?','2003-04-08 04:40:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1664,1,3296,'64.70.24.67','Kathleen','snowleopard@alaska.net','','Okay, with due respect for those who feel differently, with appreciation for witty comments to the contrary, and with no desire to throw cold water on the party, I\'m a little off-put by this photo. \r\n\r\nThis from another mama who\'s dyin\' here: maybe this just brings back shades of the damned Yankees stomping through Tara, but I do not see that this photo will do the Coalition cause any good, and can potentially do it harm. \r\n\r\nWonder if has occurred to anyone that the palace is no longer Saddam\'s, nor will it be he who scrubs the boot stains from the carpet; the palace now belongs, or ought to, to the people whom we are supposedly there to liberate. I recognize that the soldiers have gone through some hard weeks to arrive at the palace, but the people who live in that country have paid for that splendor with years of blood, sweat, tears, and lives. Surely it is theirs. \r\n\r\nThink museum; think library, university, maternity hospital, art gallery; think of this place becoming a home for orphans, or for people mentally or physically broken by the oppression or the war; think of that building housing a hushed memorial to the dead. \r\n\r\nI\'m confident that the smashed crockery isn\'t Fiestaware or Corelle, and I picture a curator or art historian recognizing the fragments, and mourning the broken beauty. Surely these people have had enough of grief. Step lightly, and do not linger. That country, if it is to be one, will need its treasures now more than ever.\r\n\r\nIMHO\r\n\r\n\r\n ','2003-04-08 04:51:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1665,1,3296,'172.129.86.18','Dan Hartung','lakefxdan@aol.com','http://www.lakefx.nu/','Dave? Dave Bowman? Is that really you?','2003-04-08 05:26:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1666,1,3275,'63.246.170.52','chris','chris@notreal.com','','Since when is criticing the current adminstration \"bad-mouthing\" America? There\'s huge leap there. I don\'t think the Founding Fathers would have drafted the Bill of Rights if they didn\'t believe voicing opinions about how the nation\'s resources was one of the foundations of democracy. I hope that woman\'s husband is mortally ashamed of her, since she\'s expressing a sentiment - discouraging someone from speaking their mind about the government - that is far, far more anti-American than anything I\'ve seen at an anti-war demonstration. ','2003-04-08 06:05:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1667,1,3275,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Ardsgaine\'s comment about the distinction between \"the sensible dissenter from the moral cripple\" strikes me as profound and true. \r\n\r\nIf you believe it, and I do, then yes this protester is going beyond bad mouthing an administration - she is indeed expressing hostility to the country, not just its present steward. The creeping perception that this is in fact the \"peace\" movement\'s animating principle above all others does much to explain both the elderly lady\'s reaction in this instance, and the growing marginalization of the Left in the United States.','2003-04-08 06:49:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1668,1,3275,'63.246.170.52','chris','chris@notreal.com','','how is that expressing hostility to America? Bush is only one American. A powerful American, but he does not represent America, particularly within these borders where we are free to criticize our leaders.','2003-04-08 07:09:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1669,1,3275,'63.246.170.52','chris','chris@notreal.com','','As a Christian, I think anyone who uses the bible to support this war is a moral cripple. If you want to pervert a sacred text in the name of violence and quash dissidence you belong in a nation like Iran.','2003-04-08 07:10:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1670,1,3254,'193.38.88.6','Simon','yeah@whatever.com','http://www.themusicforums.co.uk','Originally posted by Randy - \'and god said, \"time does not exist in my world\". \'\r\n\r\nGod is as real as time travel. It makes me chuckle that you tried to explain something scientific and then had that poking out in the middle of your post. As for the guy, well he needs to stop taking acid.','2003-04-08 08:35:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1671,1,3297,'129.100.100.39','Patrick Brown','brown5@uwo.ca','','Mike - history would have judged Henry more harshly if he had lost. That\'s why they call it \"risk.\"\r\n\r\nPatrick','2003-04-08 13:00:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1672,1,3296,'138.162.0.43','JD','dunlapjw@navair.navy.mil','','These dudes don\'t seem much worried about the Iraqi \"noose.\"','2003-04-08 13:52:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1673,1,3296,'66.65.191.168','af','afjob@aol.com','','Fraternity house of Sigma Delta Pow.','2003-04-08 15:03:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1674,1,3296,'149.101.22.2','Sid','sidney.kooyman@prodigy.net','','\"Did you see the eyes of the butler when I asked if Saddam was home?\"','2003-04-08 15:10:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1675,1,3298,'206.190.18.26','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','We need organized crime for two reasons.\r\n\r\n1. To deliver products and services that require organization to deliver. The international trade in drugs is an example. This one is easy to defeat. Lower tariffs and end prohibitions of widely desired commodities or services. That is the best way to stop smuggling.\r\n\r\n2. To handle crimes where division of labor makes the criminal system more efficient. Thieves and fences come to mind. Here technologies like e-bay eliminate the need for fences. The way to handle this is to get the police off the prohibition gravy train and put them to work on the harder effort to catch thieves. ','2003-04-08 16:04:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1676,1,3296,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Here\'s the real news caption for today\'s photo of the day.','2003-04-08 17:24:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1677,1,3303,'68.194.31.12','michele','michele@asmallvictory.net','http://asmallvictory.net','I\'ve got goose bumps. What a wonderful picture.','2003-04-08 17:54:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1678,1,3275,'4.35.73.145','Wondering','at@at.at','','Does anyone really believe this story? It screams \"phony\" to me.','2003-04-08 18:09:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1679,1,3296,'12.207.130.197','Sandy P.','fakeaddy@hotmail.com','','While all those are fitting uses for the palace, and I prefer tourism/hotel, why do I get the feeling the UN will grab it first?','2003-04-08 18:15:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1680,1,3296,'65.199.156.16','Jim','jsilberman@nycsca.org','','Talk about deja vu. In 1945 members of the 82nd Airborne Division took a similar picture at Hitler\'s Berghof in Austria. Sic semper tyranus. May there always be the heel of a GI\'s boot on the neck of the world\'s Saddams.','2003-04-08 19:36:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1681,1,3275,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','As someone familiar with the concept of Christian \"just war\" doctrine, I find the position of \"Christians\" like chris to be profoundly ironic, in 2 ways. [1] Advocating a religious position that does not in fact exist - the Bible could indeed be used legitimately by a believing Christian to justify war, so perhaps closer study of his religion would be beneficial; and [2] He suggests Iran as a suitable place for his political opponents, but the gravitas of his argument against them is theological. Uh, chris, I think that\'s their game, not ours. Church, state... no? Never mind.\r\n\r\nIf you convert to Islam, chris, I think the Iranians will happily take you.','2003-04-08 20:11:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1682,1,3300,'209.178.177.107','old maltese','old__maltese@juno.com','','Joe --\r\n\r\nDo you realize the irony of mentioning Agonist and Stratfor in the same item?\r\n\r\n(Check Instapundit, Yourish, and others regarding their \'connection\'.)','2003-04-08 22:07:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1683,1,3296,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net/','Good Lord, Dave, you\'re a freakin\' genius! From today\'s WSJ Best of the Web:\r\n \r\nThe Omaha World-Herald reports that Lt. Col. Mike Presnell of the U.S. Army\'s Third Infantry Division, called his mother from Saddam Hussein\'s palace: \r\n\r\n\"He told me that he was going to wash his hair and brush his teeth in Saddam\'s private bathroom,\" Gloria Presnell said. \"The only thing I could say to him was, \'I hope you use your own toothbrush.\' \"','2003-04-08 22:21:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1684,1,3303,'206.222.52.18','Jeff Brokaw','jeff@nothanks.net','http://jeffbrokaw.net/weblog/','That is simply awesome. Combined with the news that 100+ kids got released from a children\'s prison today, it\'s turning into a feel-good kind of day. We could all use one of those here and there ... ','2003-04-08 22:44:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1685,1,3300,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Yes. It\'s listed lower down in Winds of War. Haven\'t seen that Iraqwar.RU scoop anywhere else; Sean-Paul does some good research, too.','2003-04-08 23:01:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1686,1,3291,'65.239.47.221','Rod','rhbadger@msn.com','','Sigh:\r\n\r\nMaybe this is why the 3rd ID shot at the Palestine Hotel? Good stewardship sometimes requires that the heard has to be thinned.\r\n','2003-04-09 01:30:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1687,1,3296,'65.239.47.221','Rod','rhbadger@msn.com','','There is a sketch in Malcolm Atkin and Wayne Laughlins’ “Gloucester and the Civil War, A City Under Siege” in 1643 which illustrates just such a scene in a captured manor house.','2003-04-09 01:31:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1688,1,3296,'67.242.22.86','Catman','catmandoo3@yahoo.com','','Servicemen of the U.S. 3rd Infantry Division make themselves comfortable in the living room of one of Saddam Hussein\'s downtown Baghdad palaces as they watch Iraqi Information Minister Sahaf on Iraqi TV state unabashedly at a press conference that \"the mercenaries\" are nowhere within the vicinity of Baghdad, and denouncing statements to the contrary as the lies and propaganda of western media.\r\n','2003-04-09 01:32:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1689,1,2778,'152.163.189.131','Hartwell Nolan','HNolan5613@aol.com','','Why can we not get Closed Captioning at night on FOX? We who are hearing impaired want to know what Shep, Rick, Bret, Greg, Ollie, and all the rest are reporting just as bad as the people who hear well. Is this a way to turn us off? I say it is definately discrimination. I/we enjoy the fox news system but you are turniong us off by not letting us see what is being said? ','2003-04-09 05:00:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1690,1,3305,'207.168.131.133','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','I hope that we will be able to help the injured people of Iraq with the same zeal that we used to destroy so much of their country. I am not anti war, but I am pained at the cost the poor had to pay for this.','2003-04-09 17:11:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1691,1,3305,'207.168.131.133','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','A wise person once said \"be careful who you step on, on your way up, you\'ll see them again on your way down.\" ','2003-04-09 17:19:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1692,1,3305,'147.11.36.18','Another Dave','dave@sniggle.net','http://sniggle.net/Experiment','Nice to see that the phrase \"sic semper tyrannis\" didn\'t lose its glamour when Abraham Lincoln\'s assassin used it as his rallying cry.','2003-04-09 17:34:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1693,1,3305,'12.253.10.228','zombyboy','resurrectionsong@yahoo.com','http://resurrectionsong.blog-city.com','Okay, Dave 1, let\'s just enjoy the moment for now. I think the Pres has already expressed his committment to rebuilding the country and the military did a phenomenal job in leaving infrastructure intact.\r\n\r\nSo, like the \"poor people\" over there, let\'s spend a few moments in celebration.\r\n\r\nSic semper tyrannis! (It does have an awfully nice ring to it, doesn\'t it?)','2003-04-09 18:04:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1694,1,3305,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Another Dave,\r\n\r\nNo more than the Beatles lost their glamour when Charles Manson used \"Helter Skelter\" as his rallying cry.','2003-04-09 20:47:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1695,1,3290,'129.42.161.35','Devil\'s Advocate','Me@nothere.net','','Referring to the enemy as non-human (varmints, pests, hostiles) is a time honored method of killing humans without feeling bad about it.\r\n\r\nI hope those of you who relish in the avenging of 9/11 realize that the Saddam regime had nothing to do with that. The Baath party was SECULAR, having nothing to do with Islam. So you can\'t even say we are striking back at Fundamentalist Muslims.\r\n\r\nBut, I suppose they all look alike on TV, and killing one rag head is just as good as killing another.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-04-09 21:31:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1696,1,3274,'204.155.16.72','Chrees','condrieu@yahoo.com','','Brilliant idea. Ah, if it would only work. Of course, it may be moot now.\r\n\r\nThis sort of falls under the heading of the Bard\'s breath (probably on a 40-clove garlic chicken day). After hearing someone read Who Killed Cock Robin to their child this morning, this popped to mind...\r\n\r\nWho killed the U.N.?\r\nI said Chirac,\r\nWith my parry and block.\r\nI killed the U.N.!\r\n\r\nAll the leaders of men lost their bearing and patience\r\nWhen they heard of the death of the United Nations,\r\nWhen they heard of the death of the United Nations.\r\n\r\nWho saw it die?\r\nI said Chrétien,\r\n(With an indifferent mien).\r\nI saw it die!\r\n\r\nAll the leaders of men lost their bearing and patience\r\nWhen they heard of the death of the United Nations,\r\nWhen they heard of the death of the United Nations.\r\n\r\nWho caught its blood?\r\nI said Putin,\r\nAnd mixed it with sputum,\r\nI caught its blood!\r\n\r\nAll the leaders of men lost their bearing and patience\r\nWhen they heard of the death of the United Nations,\r\nWhen they heard of the death of the United Nations.\r\n\r\nWho\'ll make its shroud?\r\nI said V. Fox,\r\nWill use this old cardboard box,\r\nI\'ll make its shroud!\r\n\r\nAll the leaders of men lost their bearing and patience\r\nWhen they heard of the death of the United Nations,\r\nWhen they heard of the death of the United Nations.\r\n\r\nWho\'ll dig its grave?\r\nI would said Saddam,\r\nIf I had any arms,\r\nI\'d dig its grave!\r\n\r\nAll the leaders of men lost their bearing and patience\r\nWhen they heard of the death of the United Nations,\r\nWhen they heard of the death of the United Nations.\r\n\r\nWho\'ll toll the bell?\r\nI said Hans Blix, \r\nI refused to see tricks.\r\nI\'ll toll the bell!\r\n\r\nAll the leaders of men lost their bearing and patience\r\nWhen they heard of the death of the United Nations,\r\nWhen they heard of the death of the United Nations.\r\n','2003-04-09 23:15:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1697,1,3305,'67.242.22.33','catman','catmandoo3@yahoo.com','','I can\'t help but have my doubts about the future of the Iraqi people, after having seen how inept those Shi\'ia Iraqis were at toppling this statue (Haystacks Calhoun put in some solid blows with that hammer, but besides that ...)\r\n\r\nThey couldn\'t revolt on their own. They couldn\'t topple a statue on their own (you\'ll have noticed early on, the U.S. military vehicles were ordered away from the field-of-view; so it could look like the Iraqis did this entirely on their own).\r\n\r\nHow can they build a nation on their own? With Shi\'ia, Sunni and Kurdish factions, how can they hold a federation together?\r\n\r\nYes, even the French and Prussians aided the Americans during the revolution, after the Americans demonstrated their ability to stand on their own against the British Crown.\r\n\r\nI believe there will be the peacekeeping security force, the provisional government, the continuing flow of humanitarian aid, the western contractors to rebuild. Nevertheless, in the end it\'s up to the Iraqis whether this is a success or failure.\r\n\r\nThey need too much handholding; I see Yugoslavia after the fall of Tito more likely than a new Mid-Eastern democracy. We all know how Yugoslavia turned out.\r\n\r\nHopefully I\'m wrong, we must remember the Iraqis have only been free a blinking of an eye on historical time scales, and they need the same care and support as any newborn baby. They must grow up quickly.\r\n','2003-04-10 00:28:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1698,1,3306,'66.72.207.163','Ron','rtraweek@ameritech.net','','The footage from today was good, and heartwarming. I hope that the attitudes of the the Iraq stay friendly towards America. I have my doubts about that, but that is okay too. \r\n\r\nThe interesting part of this conflict will be seeing what happens to the shperes of political influence around the world as a result. Life is never dull...\r\n\r\nRon','2003-04-10 01:04:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1699,1,3306,'64.173.25.136','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','\"I refuse to yield all the optimism to conservatives.\"\r\n\r\nNow look who\'s standing athwart history shouting STOP!','2003-04-10 02:13:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1700,1,3306,'129.100.100.27','Patrick Brown','brown5@uwo.ca','','Armed Liberal - I\'m an unarmed conservative. I think the difference between the two of us is really one of emphasis. You define your liberalism in terms of \"more justice, more liberty, more equality, and a belief that we can have it all.\" From this, I take it that when you think of progress you think of the duty that those of us with more stuff and more freedom owe to those of us with less stuff and less freedom. For my part, when I think of progress I think about what is likely to lead to some of us having more stuff and more freedom that we can, if we choose, share. For the liberal dream to be realized, we need wealth. For the conservative dream to be worth working for, we need to share the wealth once we get it. But are these views in opposition? I don\'t think they are in any necessary way. We can have it both ways, if only because there are lots of us.\r\n','2003-04-10 04:03:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1701,1,3256,'172.135.124.218','anon','anon@yahoo.com','','Keep in mind that the comment is from a nimrod. Open Floor! All blog! All blog!','2003-04-10 04:26:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1702,1,3306,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','A.L., I\'m really glad to hear this. I\'ve been reading some liberal bloggers today, and the doom and sadness couldn\'t have fit Balzar better if they (Kos, Calpundit, Atrios, Oliver, et. al.) tried. It was remarkable, in a twisted kind of way.\r\n\r\nUntil American liberals can look on the victory of their OWN country in war and the fall of a murdering tyrant with genuine, unfaked happiness, they will not only be out of power - they will be unworthy of it. The impression they left for outsiders was not of serious people warning of problems ahead - it was of people actually disappointed that their country had not failed in war, so thjey could say \"I told you so.\" That actually seemed to matter to them more than thousands of cheering Iraqis in downtown Baghdad. As I say, remarkable.\r\n\r\nHow we get from here to there... well, you may need some of that optimism you\'re talking about.','2003-04-10 04:29:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1703,1,3306,'66.124.102.45','49erDweet','busmaster@at_msn.com','','Powerful stuff today for A.L. to see the opportunities. P.B. and J.K. are right-on. Leftists need to stop being ashamed to be Americans. A photo on 4/7 of an Iraqui youngster tearfully hugging his Iraqui freedom fighter uncle from St. Louis says it all, as far as I\'m concerned. Proud to be an American!','2003-04-10 07:16:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1704,1,3305,'67.209.214.129','BarCodeKing','barcodeking@hotmail.com','http://barcodeking.blogspot.com/','You can\'t fault the Iraqis for wanting to do the job with what they had at hand, but a rope wasn\'t going to be adequate to pull down a metal statue. But working with their new friends, the U.S. Marines, the tyrant\'s statue came tumbling down.\r\n\r\nFortunately, the Iraqia not going to HAVE to build a nation on their own; we\'re going to help them.\r\n\r\nAnd we have some experience with welding a group of diverse ethnic and religious groups into a nation, because we have done it ourselves.','2003-04-10 16:44:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1705,1,3307,'64.173.25.136','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','I am one who asked the question silently. Obviously what Sean-Paul did was wrong. However, as always seems to end up being the case, the cover-up (his initial response) was worse than the crime. I think he finally got it, but only after being hit over the head with a 2x4. \r\n\r\nShunning is an effective and appropriate punishment; that\'s why the Amish have used it for centuries. It was the correct initial response of the blogosphere. In the process of writing this response and considering your post, I have changed my mind about the propriety of continued punishment. Though it took a 2x4, Sean-Paul has apologized fully and without reservation. While he should be accepted back into a self-regulating community, I am sorry you have had to give him even more publicity but thankful you have changed my mind.','2003-04-10 17:37:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1706,1,3306,'207.170.32.7','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Why aren\'t liberals more hopeful?\r\n\r\nBecause their solution for all problems great and small - socialism - can only be maintained by armed force. In addition no matter how much force is applied more is always required. Read Hayek to find out why.\r\n\r\nI used to be a liberal. I didn\'t become hopeful about my liberal ideals until I joined the American Right. Capitalist economics will and has done more for the poor than redistribution ever has or ever will.','2003-04-10 17:51:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1707,1,3307,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Thanks for writing, Richard. I appreciate it.\r\n\r\nWholesale re-acceptance is unlikely for quite some time, and is in fact a much broader proposal than the argument I made here. That\'s something he\'ll have to earn back or not through his actions, over time and with no small amount of difficulty. \r\n\r\nI will, however, continue to link his posts when he brings information to light that my readers ought to know about.','2003-04-10 18:45:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1708,1,3310,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Folks, I ran this because it\'s funny. Tatiana has her own blog, and was not responsible for anything her husband The Agonist may have done.\r\n\r\nAs for the reference to the Agonist\'s MOAB update, well, that\'s where I found the information. I wasn\'t going to lie about that - I think we all got a demonstration of why that\'s wrong recently, yes? More on my overall policy re: The Agonist, and why, here.','2003-04-10 19:26:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1709,1,3306,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','With due respect, M. Simon ... bull.\r\n\r\nAll actions by governments - including the defense of property rights - are done \"@gun\" - ultimately at the point of a gun.\r\n\r\nThere is no divine definition that says that Disney\'s rights to Mickey Mouse last for 99 as opposed to 9 years, and still the agents of the government - with guns - will come and take me away if I violate those rights.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-04-10 21:34:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1710,1,3194,'198.26.130.36','Bertram Schlosser','stellarblue51@aol.com','','It is amazing. The treason, the escape, the bank robberies...how is it possible that he could be released before at least 2027? It should have been a firing squad or life without, but parole?\r\n\r\nGive me a break. Good luck with seven figure income from your book, Chris. You bastard.\r\n\r\nB. Schlosser\r\nLos Angeles, CA','2003-04-11 00:22:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1711,1,3306,'129.100.99.100','Patrick Brown','brown5@uwo.ca','','Isn\'t that a straw man, A.L.?\r\n\r\n\"There is no divine definition that says that Disney\'s rights to Mickey Mouse last for 99 as opposed to 9 years...\"\r\n\r\nNo, there isn\'t a divine definition. But there is a social contract, to abide by laws and if you don\'t like them to try to change them in peaceful ways. If you just decide to break the laws you don\'t like, people from the government might want to have a word with you. But I don\'t see how that invalidates M. Simon\'s point. Where people are free to follow their own muse, governments will need less coercion.\r\n\r\nNonetheless, I would say to M. Simon that guns are not always necessary to maintain socialism. It can also be done - as it is done in Europe and Canada - by mortgaging the future. At least, it can be done that way for some years, perhaps even a couple of generations, before the system collapses. (And, no, I don\'t think there is any equivalent danger of the American free enterprise system collapsing the way the European system is going to in the foreseeable future.)\r\n\r\nBut this sidebar about socialism puzzles me. Surely there is a difference between the kind of liberalism A.L. espouses and socialism. Or have I missed something? (Very possible!)\r\n\r\nPatrick','2003-04-11 04:31:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1712,1,3306,'172.145.152.145','Dan Hartung (blogging again)','lakefxdan@aol.com','http://www.lakefx.nu/','See my April 9 post, AL: I anticipated you.','2003-04-11 05:13:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1713,1,3306,'172.145.152.145','Dan Hartung (blogging again)','lakefxdan@aol.com','http://www.lakefx.nu/','M. Simon has been peddling his all-liberals-are-socialists Dittohead BS on LGF for a year or so already. What a truckload that is. And how demonstrative of M. Simon\'s lack of knowledge of the world, and political history; I wouldn\'t act as arrogant as he, if I knew so little.','2003-04-11 05:16:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1714,1,3306,'24.128.171.86','Matt McIrvin','mmcirvin@world.std.com','http://world.std.com/~mmcirvin/','Conservatives aren\'t all optimists, either. Reagan gave them (among other things) an extraordinary infusion of hope and it was a great gift, reinforced by the events of 1989-91.\r\n\r\nBut recall Derbyshire. Robert \"Slouching Toward Gomorrah\" Bork. George Will, on the even-numbered days when the liberals are coarsening society with loose morals (as opposed to the odd-numbered days when the liberals are stuffy puritans opposed to fun). A few of the more extreme religious conservatives who view a slide into chaos as a sign of the impending End Times and reserve their optimism for the next world.\r\n\r\nThose dour pessimistic guys are still around. Fortunately (for America if not for liberalism) their influence in American conservative circles has been dropping. There does seem to be more pessimism on the right when talking about domestic affairs than about foreign policy and war. But even much of that vanished after Sept. 11, 2001; with the US at war with apocalyptic religious tyrants it was suddenly not so fashionable to write a rant about how America was being consumed from within by a cancer of filth and libertinism.\r\n\r\nA little while ago Kevin Drum suggested that a viable Democratic presidential candidate could run on a platform of opposition to a perceived neocon menace. I think that would be a terrible idea. Say what you will about the neoconservatives, their fundamental defining attributes are that\r\n\r\n(1) they sincerely care about freedom and democracy, and\r\n\r\n(2) they are extremely hopeful.\r\n\r\nAttack, if you like, their tendency to exaggerate the ease of accomplishing things with US military force, but any line of argument that opposes either of those two points is a loser, and rightly so. I agree that liberals need to embrace that hope, and only then quibble over implementation.\r\n','2003-04-11 06:40:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1715,1,3312,'64.81.34.133','Jeff','jps66@yahoo.com','','The French are incredible...\r\n\r\nNevermind liberation from a regime every bit as evil, perhaps in some ways, even more twisted and sick, albeit on a smaller scale, than Hitler or Stalin. \r\n\r\nThe French remember liberation, non? \r\n\r\nWho were those guys? \r\n\r\nNevermind the extraordinary professionalism and care attempted in the exercise of U.S airpower to minimize civilian casualties.\r\n\r\nAny other nation\'s armed forces operate in such manner? The Russians perhaps? Grozny Anyone? I think not. \r\n\r\nI wish someone would post from the French editorial today brushing off liberation and demanding \"where are the weapons of mass destruction?\"\r\n\r\nWhat\'s that you say? Weapons grade plutonium? \r\n','2003-04-11 06:57:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1716,1,3312,'12.103.251.203','Sanitation Engineer #6','ignore@b54.net','http://www.b54.net','WW2 happened over 50 years ago, most of the people that participated are dead, and the remaining few don\'t have any say in day-to-day government operations in France or anywhere else. \"That was then, this is now\" is a very typical response, along with \"Just because our forefathers were Neanderthals doesn\'t mean we have to be as well\".\r\n\r\nPeople don\'t forget. People can\'t remember because they weren\'t there, and no amount of writing, video, whatever can really communicate what things were like. Many of us have been in a nice, clean, democratic society too long to know what it\'s like otherwise.\r\n\r\nHistory teaches only that we\'re doomed to repeat it, thanks to our chronic selfishness and short-sightedness. I\'m sure most of us these days would be horrified at the idea of massive \"peace\" protests in Europe back in 1940--but you can be equally sure that they happened. \"Sure, Hitler was a bad guy, but there\'s nobody like that alive today...\"\r\n\r\nExtremes. People, politics, governments inherently seek them out, bounce from one to the other. Trends that affect large groups of people only seem to reverse when they go too far. Hopefully the \"do nothing and it\'ll all work out for the best\" trend on the part of the Europeans will reverse itself soon.','2003-04-11 07:49:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1718,1,3312,'207.168.131.234','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Gee, Chirac could try saying he\'s sorry, he was wrong.\r\nIt\'s kind of hard to stay angry with someone who does that. As for the U.N., they have to redeem themselves in actions. Perhaps they could start by addressing the North Korean problem in earnst.\r\nIt would be helpful if more allies supported us, if only retroactively, to counter some of the absoloute hatred that\'s been coming our way since certain countries discovered Americans weren\'t going to get their heads handed to them in Baghdad. ','2003-04-11 13:51:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1719,1,3267,'216.89.220.3','RealityCheck','realitycheck@aol.com','','What\'s with the speculation about whether or not she was raped in Iraq? If she\'d gone to the Air Force Academy, you wouldn\'t need to speculate. \r\n\r\nOur armed services, folks, one beer away from a sexual assault.\r\n\r\nAll rapists are scum ... and they\'re everywhere.\r\n\r\nAs Dap said at the end of Spike Lee\'s *School Daze* ... \"Wake Up.\" (This quote may be lost on the Toby Keith crowd.)','2003-04-11 15:59:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1720,1,3267,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Umm, sure looks like RealityCheck could use one. You might ask why I don\'t delete comments like that... it\'s because I prefer to have them parade their idiocy openly instead of hiding it for them.\r\n\r\nFolks, one more time - further speculations of \"was she or wasn\'t she\" aren\'t productive. See the Wirt County commentator to understand why, and also my Comment up above.','2003-04-11 16:22:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1721,1,3314,'12.111.129.60','Oceanguy','oceanguy_fl@yahoo.com','http://oceanguy.blogspot.com','How different might things be if CNN or Monsieur Jordan had the courage to tell the truth 12 years ago? How can these lying journalists be held accountable? This is absolutley sickening.','2003-04-11 16:22:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1722,1,3314,'12.254.166.252','Charles Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','','Rush is on this right now. And his point is well taken. Could not Mr Jordon have spoken to his anchors (Woodruff, Brown, etc)and told them what he knew so that their coverage would have been a little less accepting of Saddam and a little less skeptical of the Bush Administration. Ditto, the left in general and the Democratic Party in particular. If Jordon knew this stuff, all the other news executives knew. The cocktail parties must have been abuzz with this information. It didn\'t bother them one wit. It was more important that they maintain their stance against President Bush. They have not one moral leg to stand on.','2003-04-11 17:30:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1723,1,3267,'144.183.226.2','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Joe,\r\n\r\n Knowledge Lynch\'s treatment at the hands of the Iraqis bears on two policy issues.\r\n\r\n1) The role of women in our military.\r\n\r\n2) The truely evil nature of our enemies.\r\n\r\nWe do not need the extremely personal details. We do need to know if female servicemen are going to be subject to additional horrors that male servicemen are not. \r\n\r\nIf only so women volunteering to serve know the extent of the dangers they face. And the services can undertake special training, like pilots get, to psychologically prepare female servicemen for such treatment as this war goes on.','2003-04-11 17:40:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1724,1,3314,'167.176.6.8','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://blastersblog.blogspot.com','What else are they afraid to tell us the truth about?\r\n\r\nFLOOD THE ZONE on this.','2003-04-11 17:43:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1725,1,3314,'138.133.17.9','Armed Liberal','aremd@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Yeah, I saw this at breakfast this morning and couldn\'t finish eating.\r\n\r\nMy stomach literally turned at the matter-of-fact way the head of the CNN bureau admitted his complicity in covering up brutality.\r\n\r\nI await Big Media\'s deafening silence on this; but if they want to know why no one takes them seriously, here it is.\r\n\r\nI don\'t see this as an embarassment for the Left on the subject of Saddam\'s brutality - they are already neck-deep on that - as much as I see it as an indictment of corporate media.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-04-11 17:59:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1726,1,3267,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Trent: the answer is yes, they will. \r\n\r\nSo yes, we should be putting programs in place to prepare women psychologically (RealityCheck was over the line, but I understand the temptation to insert an Air Force Academy joke here). I would hope that PFC Lynch will participate in that program once she\'s in better shape.\r\n\r\nRegarding the evil nature of our enemies, I think we can make that point now and let PFC Lynch be. Childrens prisons, torture chambers, execution and torture of other POWs... it\'s all coming out now, and we should hammer them home every chance we get.\r\n\r\nWhich brings me to the question I asked earlier: What kind of responses would deter our enemies from such conduct?','2003-04-11 18:01:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1727,1,3314,'66.65.191.168','af','afjob@aol.com','','Not that this ever was in doubt, of course, but if Jordan was aware of these ineffable barbarisms one can only guess at the botomless amount of information of this nature that Chirac, Schroeder and Putin were carrying around. Inspect that, a**holes!','2003-04-11 18:05:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1728,1,3314,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','A.L. The Left have not YET embarassed themselves on this issue. But they will, and more, IF they remain silent.\r\n\r\nThis is a literal example of a multinational corporation who deliberately, knowingly fattened its bottom line on the blood of the opressed. You can\'t get a more quintessential liberal/ leftist cause than that.\r\n\r\nIf the Left and American liberals decide this can be ignored or downplayed because it hindered action in Iraq (am I the only one wondering if Clinton might have gone ahead in 1998 had CNN and others acted ethically?), they will reveal themselves to lack even an ounce of belief in one of their most fervently-claimed doctrines. It won\'t be the first time, either... and the commonality binding these incidents together is that in every case, the silence or even shilling was chosen over a course that might defend the USA or make it look good.\r\n\r\nAfter a while, the consistency of the coincidence makes one suspect that the pattern one sees is the reality, and the specific examples merely symptoms.','2003-04-11 18:27:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1729,1,3314,'12.254.166.252','Charles Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','','Here\'s another take from Rush. Remember when hillery on the floor of the Senate held up the paper with the headline BUSH KNEW referring to 9/11. How about a newspaper with a picturer of a torture chamber/rape room over the headline CNN KNEW! ','2003-04-11 18:44:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1730,1,3314,'12.254.166.252','Charles Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','','Sorry to flood the zone on this but Scott Ritter has just made a similar confession in Time Magazine. (Andrew Sullivan links to it). He saw the children\'s prison back in 1998 but did not want to talk about it because those who were promoting war against Iraq at the time could have use the information to their advantage. And at that time Ritter says he was \"waging peace\". ','2003-04-11 19:04:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1731,1,3314,'64.70.24.67','Kathleen','snowleopard@alaska.net','','A timely quote from long-time CNN anchor Bernard Shaw, published yesterday in Hartford Courant interview, speaking of recent journalistic gaffes: \r\n\r\n\"I don\'t know what he was thinking,\" Shaw says of Rivera. As for his former colleague, Arnett? \"I have not talked to him, but my impression from afar is that he was trying to ingratiate himself with Iraqi officials. And I suspect that in the back of his mind is that he\'d have such relationships with the officials that it would ultimately lead to an exclusive interview with Saddam Hussein.\"\r\n\r\n\"I thought it was embarrassingly sad in both instances, what each man did,\" says Shaw, known for his serious-minded interviews and unflappable on-air demeanor. \"They violated the most precious relationship a journalist has with his readers, viewers and listeners. And that is trust. Credibility is all a journalist has. When you lose it, or when you undermine your credibility, you might as well take down your shingle.\"\r\n\r\nI turn the task of fitting commentary over to my fellow commentarians, for I am flummoxed into silence. Here\'s the whole article: \r\n \r\nhttp://www.ctnow.com/news/local/hc-stan0409.artapr09,0,7910304.column?coll=hc-headlines-local\r\n\r\n','2003-04-11 21:07:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1732,1,3316,'66.163.6.154','Kevin Brennan','strategy@rentagurkha.com','http://www.rentagurkha.com/','Why is this corruption, but the $7 billion no-bid contract to Haliburton (Dick Cheney\'s old company) isn\'t?\r\n\r\nMore to the point, do you really think that Chretien really wanted to support the U.S., except that it would hurt his family? Or is it more likely that he would have avoided taking any firm stance on the issue whether or not there was any family connection? Especially when most Canadians and most Liberals opposed participation in the war against Iraq without UN sanction?\r\n\r\nIt\'s not like Canada actually did anything much to impede the U.S., and at one point our compromise resolution almost got passed (until the French shot it down).\r\n\r\nUnless there\'s some evidence that the PM actually changed his mind because of this family connection, it\'s just a smear, no better than the antiwar types who seem to think that G.W.B. launched the invasion to line his pockets.\r\n\r\nGod knows I feel strange defending the PM against accusations of corruption, but I suppose there\'s a first time for everything.','2003-04-11 21:51:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1738,1,3314,'67.118.128.125','Joyce','jjiang77@ucla.edu','http://www.transcended.net','To the person above me, Diane...\r\n\r\nThe press exists to police governments. Yes our government knew terrible things were happening when they were allied with Saddam Hussein. Guess what, it was the press\'s job to expose that. (It was the government\'s job to create the necessary alliances to combat threats as they best percieved them.) So when the press itself becomes a party to the duplicity of a government, which CNN has certainly done by keeping known instances of brutal murder, kidnap and torture hush hush on behalf of Saddam, right-minded Americans get good and pissed off. And since all the CNN anchors have been such great leftist mouthpieces it\'s not a stretch of the imagination to say that this is just another example of the left being hypocritical and illogical and just plain stupid. ','2003-04-12 02:09:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1734,1,3314,'65.128.189.4','Diane Borger','dianess2@hotmail.com','','For God\'s sake---why in the world are you using this to attack the left? We knew horrible things were happening in this regime that we helped install, just as we know of terrible abuses in other regimes. Why use every piece of news as a cause to skewer the left? If we had a Democratic president right now, you\'d all be turning this back on us as a mistake. Sometimes you all just sound like a bunch of frat boys.','2003-04-11 22:15:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1735,1,3011,'65.56.185.44','cris','rcbronson@mindspring.com','','while the west has been a bit more modern with respect to women, as late as the late 1970s in arkansas, when a woman married, her husband legally controlled any property she owned. \r\n\r\nin mexico, young women are still chaparoned in \'good families\'. when i was growing up and a teenager, friends of mine were such mexicans. even when we moved into our own apartment, cecilia was required to have someone else present when any male came courting. i sat in the room as chaparone more than once.\r\n\r\ntrue. we didn\'t usually rape, kill or maim women when they refused. but it hasn\'t been so free in the west until the last 35 years.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-12 00:30:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1736,1,3316,'65.56.185.44','cris','rcbronson@mindspring.com','','frequently when people accuse others unjustly, they assume that those they accuse would do what they would do if they were in their shoes. ie, chretien were he to go to war in iraq perhaps would only have gone for oil. \r\n\r\nshrug. \r\n\r\nbut he didn\'t. and we did. \r\n\r\nain\'t noticed any thieving yet. but then our military has been too busy taking care of business (liberating). \r\n\r\nbut watch for the vultures ready to pick the country clean when this is done. the french will be first in line. ','2003-04-12 00:35:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1737,1,3312,'64.70.24.67','Kathleen','snowleopard@alaska.net','','Speaking of support from abroad, if you missed this incident, and I had, here\'s an article about the welcome a group of hockey players received when they played in Montreal. \r\nA group of 11 and 12 year-olds raised funds for a much-anticipated road game, and were treated to the sights and sounds of American flag burning, cursing, and heckling--even by the referee. One cannot but admire the courage of adults who attack pee-wee hockey players in the name of politics? \r\n\r\nreference: http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31846\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-04-12 00:58:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1739,1,3316,'24.90.104.231','SL','stud_lee@seductive.com','http://stud_lee.blogspot.com','I thought the Halliburton contract was annulled? But I wonder why the Canadian press never picked up on this bit of information or any scandal that the “wonderful” PM Chretien has embarked on. \r\n\r\nAs for the UN sanction gambit, where was that when Canada eagerly sent troops to Bosnia? UN sanctions are just an excuse for a faceless, ineffective and nonexistent foreign policy. No wonder we have no respect anymore. But I suppose this was earned...\r\n','2003-04-12 02:45:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1740,1,3317,'68.40.150.236','Dean Esmay','dean@deanesmay.com','http://www.deanesmay.com','I for one think that the real problem is that most of the thinkers of the movement have, by and large, become what we wrongly call \"neocons\" and should be calling \"neoliberals.\"\r\n\r\nThere\'s an essay in that. I dunno if I\'ll write it or not. I\'ve touched on similar themes before. \r\n\r\nThe truth is that the Left won most of its biggest arguments of the last century. Although it also lost some spectacularly big ones. What\'s left for the left isn\'t much, because the so-called \"Right\" (which isn\'t actually very conservative or authoritarian anymore, if you look at it) has taken the mantle of individual freedom and civil rights and egalitarianism as its own. Leaving the Left wondering what the hell to do with itself.\r\n\r\nAt least, that\'s so here in the States. Plus all the intellectual energy of youth today is more focused toward libertarianism than statism. Rightly or wrongly, that\'s my assessment of the situation as it actually is. \r\n\r\nI really think that the Left is dying out, and that what we\'re more likely to see happen over the next decade is a complete political realignment. The spectrum will completely change. And the words \"liberal\" and \"conservative\" will mean even less than they do now--which ain\'t saying much, since they don\'t mean much as it is.\r\n\r\nI consider myself a liberal. I support this war. I support a smaller state, but I\'m no anarchist or radical libertarian or utopianist. I\'m a moderate on most social issues, huge on civil rights, and increasingly alienated from the Democratic Party of my youth. Where do I fit?\r\n\r\nI still think I\'m a liberal.','2003-04-12 02:53:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1741,1,3316,'129.100.154.215','Patrick Brown','brown5@uwo.ca','','With respect, Kevin, I think you\'re asking the wrong question. The issue is not, did he want to support the US? That question suggests this was a moral issue for Chretien, and that he ultimately came down on the side of self-interest. It wasn\'t a moral issue for him, because nothing is a moral issue for Jean Chretien. There is only self-interest, no internal dialogue that self-interest sometimes wins. Let\'s look at the backstory: \r\n\r\na. Jean Chretien stands for nothing in particular. He has achieved nothing memorable or invaluable during 9 years as Prime Minister with unchallenged control over the entire apparatus of government. This is salient because it suggests he is a man without a value system, without any sense of a public good that he should work for. He wants to be PM just to be PM, not for any other reason.\r\n\r\nb. Jean Chretien had police forces suppress legitimate protest at the appearance of the Indonesian dictator Suharto at the APEC conference in Vancouver. He saw nothing wrong with this, and even joked about it, because he has no moral compass. He is a hollow man.\r\n\r\nc. Jean Chretien has influenced government decisions causing public money to be spent to make property that he owned more valuable. He then bullied and threatened and fired people, and lied, and forged documents, to cover it up. The only value he knows is self-regard.\r\n\r\nChretien is an old-time Chicago machine, or Tammany Hall style pol, for whom morality is an empty concept. Would he be tempted by the potential value to a member of his family of a gigantic TotalFinaElf contract? Is that a serious question? Of course he would be tempted. That\'s what he does. That\'s who he is. He knows influence, not morality. He knows power, not principle. He knows advantage, not duty.','2003-04-12 03:20:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1742,1,3314,'66.185.84.200','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Joyce had me pegged exactly - until the last sentence. No, I don\'t consider CNN\'s actions to be motivated by ideology. It\'s pretty clear that profit and ratings were the only things on their minds, to the exclusion of everything else. Including decency and ethics.\r\n\r\nThe question is, having done what they did, will they face the slightest criticism from the Left? My bet is no, they won\'t... and Diane\'s reaction actually lends force to that belief.\r\n\r\n\"We knew horrible things were happening in this regime that we helped install,\"\r\n\r\nNo, we didn\'t really know. That\'s like, the whole point here with respect to CNN\'s collaboration.\r\n\r\nSecond, we did not help install the Ba\'ath Party, a socialist client of the Soviet Union from Day 1 who overthrew a British-backed monarchy related to Jordan\'s. So, right away we have a failure to tell the truth here, as part of an attempt to say \"we\'re all responsible\" and avoid thinking about this. CNN wasn\'t the collaborator here - get it? We all were.\r\n\r\nSorry, doesn\'t wash. And THIS is exactly the kind of silence and shilling I expected to hear from the left - complete with a mindless \"frat boy\" slur at the end that\'s about... nothing, it seems.\r\n\r\nBut I guess it\'s a lot easier than condenming a profit-hungry multinational who found it easier to lie about torture and death; and a lie by omission is still a lie. But if they condemn CNN, it raises uncomfortabe questions. Questions like, \"where was the Left,\" and why was it silent too all this time?\"\r\n\r\nSo CNN gets a pass. The subject will be changed, blame broadened if possible. And the Left? It stands for nothing. Nothing expect its eternal wish to blame the USA for all that\'s wrong with the world. Even when the result of their evasions contradicts their most fondly stated principles.\r\n\r\nEven if, as we saw right here, the required evasions are untrue.','2003-04-12 03:24:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1743,1,3314,'24.90.236.70','Laura Antoniou','LauraBlog@aol.com','http://lantoniou.blogspot.com','Actually, the left I know has despised CNN for some time. It\'s the television version of USA Today - News Mcnuggets, repeated ad nauseum with tacky graphics and music, by personalities who lack anything close to a personality. I prefer almost any news to CNN, including Fox, which at least reveals its heart on its ticker. CNN tries to inform us how neutral they are while eagerly shilling for their media siblings and creating as much false \'drama\" as any small town new show with a truck and a Macintosh that can make nifty slides and charts. \r\n\r\nI guess I\'m not too shocked by the revelations. I think I assumed that most media agencies these days put their entertainment value first, and for a network like CNN, you gotta have the lead story - that\'s the entertainment you\'re selling. A guy standing on a rooftop in Kuwait just isn\'t the same as one ducking missiles while asking how the soldiers \"feel\" about getting letters from home.\r\n\r\nI see CNN - and even places like Fox - as neither left nor right wing - just businesspeople with a keen eye on the bottom line as well as the headlines. Neither of those lines has anything to do with what we used to consider journalist standards of ethics or telling the truth in any general way. It\'s all about getting butts in the seats and remotes out of reach.','2003-04-12 03:26:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1744,1,3316,'209.103.239.3','Fred Boness','fboness@excel.net','','There is another back story. Demarais Sr. has mutiple European business partnerships with Baron Albert Freres who is big money in Belgium.\r\n\r\nNotice how Belgium has aligned? Makes ya go \"Hmmmm\" don\'t it?','2003-04-12 04:20:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1745,1,3317,'4.61.2.117','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Well, Dean, you and I can be the first members of the new party, whatever it\'s called, because I line up pretty damn close to you on most of the issues you raise.\r\n\r\nNow if we can only get Kevin (CalPundit), there\'ll be three of us...\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-04-12 04:36:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103825,1,9801,'72.183.109.82','Beard','the_beard7@yahoo.com','','bq. _Beard is fluent and almost persuasive, then destroys his(?) own argument. Sorry, Beard. One can almost think you believe your own BS._\r\n\r\nbq. _Support of the inheritance tax means two things and two things only: DESTROY THE SUCCESSFUL! and CAPITALISM IS EEEEVIL!_ [Ric Locke, #66]\r\n\r\nAfter responding [#70] to the substance of Ric\'s comment, I\'ve been thinking about its form.\r\n\r\nRic, the feeling you had there is the experience of actually listening to a new idea, thinking about it, and starting to agree with it. Then the various slogans you had learned came rushing back to slam your mind closed before you might change your opinion.\r\n\r\nThis is one sign of a really effective marketing campaign, aimed at keeping your eye on the demonized opponents, so that your pocket can be picked while you are not looking. One way to recognize this is, as the saying goes, to *follow the money*. \r\n\r\nWho wins, if inheritance taxes are abolished? It\'s not going to be you and me. It\'s not even going to be the wealth-builders themselves (since they are the ones who die). It\'s going to be the (adult) children and grandchildren of wealth-builders, and (even more importantly) the professional caretakers of large fortunes, who are the ones who will actually get the power associated with large amounts of money, while its nominal \"owners\" are out on their yachts.\r\n\r\nWho loses? Everyone else, since that loss of government income will be significant, and it will have to be paid for somehow, either with higher taxes or lower services.\r\n\r\nA really valuable discipline is to listen to yourself. Read your own writing before clicking \"Post\". If you find yourself repeating a slogan, from whatever side, ask yourself whether you really believe that slogan to be true. Do you have actual evidence on either side? Try this out. It starts out annoying and difficult, but it really grows on you, and ends up giving you a feeling of power. Try it. You\'ll like it.\r\n\r\n','2007-10-07 14:40:52','2007-10-07 06:40:52',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1748,1,3267,'216.190.16.95','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','>Which brings me to the question I asked earlier: \r\n>What kind of responses would deter our enemies \r\n>from such conduct?\r\n\r\nDeterrence is not possible.\r\n\r\nOnly killing them first is.','2003-04-12 08:40:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1749,1,3314,'67.118.128.125','Joyce','jjiang77@ucla.edu','http://transcended.net','If you actually read what I wrote I didn\'t say we installed the Ba\'ath party. You did though. I said \"Yes our government knew terrible things were happening when they were allied with Saddam Hussein.\"\r\n\r\nYou said, \"We knew horrible things were happening in this regime that we helped install, just as we know of terrible abuses in other regimes.\"\r\n\r\nI don\'t get it. Why are you pointing out your own mistake and accusing me of being the one who made it?','2003-04-12 12:04:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1750,1,3314,'67.118.128.125','Joyce','jjiang77@ucla.edu','http://transcended.net','oh oops, sorry! i didnt read the name at the bottom. my bad.','2003-04-12 12:05:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1751,1,3314,'67.118.128.125','Joyce','jjiang77@ucla.edu','http://transcended.net','just wanted to apologize again =D havent slept in like 48 hours...although that\'s not really an excuse for not reading all the way through before responding','2003-04-12 12:07:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1752,1,3317,'208.187.143.145','Charles Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','','The American leftt\'s basic problem is that throughout the 20th century it defended every communist dictatorship that surfaced. It can talk about the fights for civil rights, labor rights and human rights, but those fights mean little in the context of the gulags and mass graves of 20th century communism. My God, there are still leftist in this country (the editors of the Nation for example) who believe Alger Hiss was innocent. Until the left is ready to examine and regret the blood on its hands, it will continue to be marginalized as more of the world moves toward freedom. ','2003-04-12 14:41:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1755,1,3317,'66.65.191.168','af','afjob@aol.com','','It seems to me that the unifying thread in the noble causes of the Left that Newman identifies is an anti-United States, anti-West posture. Such a position may be meritorious when you are opposing Belgium in the Congo or agitating for civil rights in America, it is horribly limiting, however, when it becomes a leitmotif. That is why the Left fiercely opposed the South American death squads but averted its gaze from Saddam\'s version of the same or, writ larger, Stalin\'s gulags. ','2003-04-12 17:35:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1754,1,3317,'65.164.207.206','WildMonk','wildmonk@wildmonk.net','http://wildmonk.net','In Newman\'s piece he says \"The antiwar movement lost the argument on timing and efficacy of alternative means...\"\r\n\r\nWhat if \"alternative means\" simply did not exist? That is, Newman\'s argument presupposes that the American people could be convinced of the antiwar position without asking whether that position had any validity. Once Americans were convinced that Saddam was a long-term threat (not hard after 9/11), the Bush administration and various political advocates were very effective at convincing the American people that the only real choices were A) forcibly removing Saddam or B) pursuing UN inspections. In many ways Saddam made the final choice obvious by so blatantly mocking the entire inspections process.\r\n\r\nSo, as more and more of the \"reasonable left\" was peeled away by the reality on the ground, the remaining \"anti-war\" movement (aren\'t we all anti-war?) was distilled down to three fringe groups: the hard-core hate-Bush crowd, the unconditional pacifists, and the various totalitarian sympathizers like ANSWER. Is it any wonder that the arguments against the war began to ring hollow? The only reasonable arguments were whether the inspections would work and whether Saddam was really a threat. Once these points were lost in the popular debate and many on the left came to support the war, the only arguments left were \"Bush is Hitler\" or \"No war for Oil\" etc.\r\n\r\nThe situation in Europe was a bit different. The political and business classes there, having far more to lose from the war, effectively kept the argument regarding inspections afloat by sheer force of will. Evidence of Saddam\'s perfidy was simply denied like the dead parrot in the Monty Python skit because too much would be lost by acknowledging the alternative.\r\n\r\nSo, to a degree I disagree with Dean on the specific point of whether the left is \"dead.\" I am sure that the typically left-leaning political partisan makes a very clear distinction between himself and the views of the nutcases on the hard left. However, in so doing, there is a subtle shift to the right in the minds of these people. Recognizing the idiocy of the attacks that have fallen on them by those to *their* left, they may well begin to understand why some of their attacks to the right suffer as well. \r\n\r\nSo, while I may not be as bullish as Dean, I do think that he is largely correct.','2003-04-12 15:17:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1756,1,3224,'213.39.30.26','http://www.meki.tk/','as@as.com','http://www.meki.tk/','good website ','2003-04-12 19:08:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1757,1,3314,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','S\'okay, Joyce. Hope you caught some sleep at last. Peace.','2003-04-13 04:59:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1758,1,3318,'66.233.37.234','Eva','evayario@lycos.com','','I highly recommend Idries Shah\'s books on Sufism. I don\'t know if this guy in the article is a true Sufi sheikh. Not that I really know much about Sufism -- the books mostly gave me some very practical information about human nature -- but I doubt a true Sufi master living in America would insist on all the female second-class status b.s. (we all know \"separate but equal\" doesn\'t work).\r\n\r\nBut this might be my emotions getting the better of me since something about all women having to wear the headscarf and robe deeply disturbs me.','2003-04-13 05:06:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1759,1,3317,'24.128.171.86','Matt McIrvin','mmcirvin@world.std.com','http://world.std.com/~mmcirvin/','I find myself thinking what Gary Farber once said, that he\'d get behind a presidential candidate who had most of Howard Dean\'s domestic policy grafted onto most of Joe Lieberman\'s foreign policy. Where is that guy? The closest living approximation I can think of was Bill Clinton, and that\'s not so close.\r\n','2003-04-13 06:35:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1760,1,3157,'209.248.81.122','Bloodthirsty Warmonger','hammerz@hotmail.com','','The Air Force Academy\'s tradition of covering up unpleasant facts goes back further than most people suspect. When I worked there in the 1970\'s, I saw cases of fraud, waste, abuse, corruption, and favoritism that never got reported in the news media. Although I\'m slow to accuse anyone of discrimination, I became the object of character assassination for accusing one civilian operation of not promoting nonwhite minorities to GS-9 and above positions for 25 years. So unless they close down the Academy, which I consider a costly and wasteful boondoggle, conduct a thorough investigation, and purge the Air Force of its sex offenders, everyone in that branch of service will be tarred with the same brush. That would be a shame, since I liked and respected most of the Air Force personnel I worked with during my military years.','2003-04-13 07:48:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1761,1,3316,'205.206.191.135','Carlos','nospam@nospam.com','','I am an American living in Canada (my wife is Canadian) and regarding Jean Cretchien, why have the Canadian people put up with him for so long? If indeed he is a self serving individual? \r\n\r\nEver since coming to Canada I have been absolutely amazed at the seemingly pacifistic attitude of so many Canadians. I don\'t mean in terms of war or no war but rather in terms of not getting riled up about anything enough to do something about it. \r\n\r\nJean Cretchien being a case in point. It seems like no matter what he does the Canadian people continue to let him stay in office. \r\n\r\nThe Canadian people don\'t seem to have the will to oust him though I have heard many say he is not a good Prime Minister. \r\n\r\nCarlos \r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-04-13 09:22:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1762,1,3194,'203.221.19.97','Paul','auspost@hotmail.com','','But the USA did betray Australia (well the CIA did anyway....which is basically the same thing) and ousted Gough Whitlam (then Prime Minister of Australia).\r\nSo all I can say is touche!\r\nGo Chris go!','2003-04-13 13:33:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1763,1,3319,'4.60.23.78','Samuel Tai','taiss@gte.net','','Here\'s a possibility (mind you this is just uninformed speculation on my part):\r\n\r\nCNN\'s apologia is true up to a point. I.e., they\'ve only spun their motives as a perversion of journalism\'s protection of sources and maintenance of access.\r\n\r\nWhat if their Baghdad Bureau were a front for Iraqi Intelligence? I.e., so-called correspondents were actually Iraqi agents? They would have the run of the country looking for stories corroborating the party line that the sanctions were killing innocents, and uncovering people willing to talk to the press off the record who could then later be \"disappeared\".\r\n\r\nAlso, since they would also have access to CENTCOM and the Pentagon, I wonder if they were actively distributing intelligence to the French, Germans, Russians, and Iraqis.\r\n\r\nIt\'s time to go over CNN\'s financials with a very fine-tooth comb. Follow the money, especially foreign investment, into CNN.','2003-04-13 15:37:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1764,1,3319,'208.187.74.142','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','This admission by CNN is simply the first low hanging fruit from the American Government\'s possession of the Iraqi Government archives.\r\n\r\nThere will be lots of other stories like this on the \"Big Media\" while the spooks digest what Iraqi Intelligence and WMD programs were up too.','2003-04-13 17:47:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1765,1,3157,'208.187.74.142','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','B.W.\r\n\r\n You are picking up on the exact point I was trying to make.\r\n\r\n The USAFA Rape scandle is no longer about due process for rapists and careerists. It is about the health of the Republic and specifically the institutional culture of the USAF.','2003-04-13 17:51:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1766,1,3319,'208.187.74.142','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','I picked the following up on the Free Republic. It is an exerpt from the \"Kinzey Report**\":\r\n\r\nhttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/891851/posts\r\n\r\n\"Both the news media and Iraq had many things in common, one of which was that they brought their problems on themselves. I explained how the news media, particularly CNN, inaccurately reported the war, misstating the facts, and in many cases deliberately telling outright lies. I dedicated an entire chapter to a dishonest CNN report about the B-1 bomber and evaluated its inaccuracies line by line. I illustrated that the report was full of lies, and these were about clearly established facts and not about someone\'s opinion. I spoke in person to the people in the Pentagon that CNN had been interviewed and filmed for that report, and they told me how CNN edited what they said to make it seem like they were saying exactly The opposite of what they actually said. I spoke with CNN\'s people here in Atlanta and at the Pentagon, including Wolf Blitzer, and he admitted he knew nothing about the military. A CNN employee in Atlanta admitted to me that they did not care if they got their reporting accurate. They only wanted to get it on the air first and in the most dramatic manner possible. Their primary purpose was to make money by selling ad space, not reporting the news. The story goes on and on.\" \r\n\r\n\r\n** \"Bert Kinzey is a former Army officer who became an expert in military aviation and has authored literally dozens* of books, principally aimed at the aviation enthusiast and scale modeler, and that are definitely apolitical. However, with his research efforts on military subjects he has gained a wealth of contacts within the U.S. military, and is one of the premier authorities on military subjects in this country.\"','2003-04-13 18:04:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1767,1,3319,'208.187.143.77','Charles Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','','Yesterday, Andrew Sullivan unearthed a Time interview with Scott Ritter in which he revealed he had, in 1998, come across the children\'s prison and had kept quiet about his discovery because he thought those who wanted to promote war against Saddam would use the information to their advantage. He was, \"waging peace\" at the time. Could there have been a quid pro quo between the UN weapons inspectors and the Saddam regime: acces to some things for keeping quiet about others. And could this be the reason why Ritter seem to change his position 180 degrees and become a supporter of Saddam once he was forced out of the country? We all knew he got the money for his suck-up documentary film, but could it be that the Saddam had him by the short hairs with much more incriminating information buried in the archives? Somehow, the media and the \"peace activists\" missed this story when it came out; even the Time interviewier let it slip by.','2003-04-13 18:24:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1768,1,3210,'198.69.192.182','amy','amelia@chilitech.net','','Is it unrealistic to expect that \"we\" will eventually dispense with the bloated, self agrandizing, pickpockets at tha U>N. The whole structure must go. The purpose of that body is simply the redistribution of {our} wealth, and the meddling in the affairs of selective nations. The main reason for their existence, if we wish to be generous in conceeding that they indeed have a legitimate purpose, is to depopulate the world. Their agenda of \"contracept and sterilize\" has continued for too long, with too many sheeple being duped into believing that \"population control\" is a noble aspiration. What the hell, pin a title on yourself, wrap yourself in the cloak of \"compassion\", and you\"ll get away with genocide even. The UN must go and all the fat phonies with it..','2003-04-13 19:06:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1769,1,3280,'65.239.13.59','Rod','rhbadger@msn.com','','\"Where They Get Young Men Like This?\"\r\n\r\nJonathan Chamberlain and his sons Jonathan Jr. and Samuel served in the Revolution, though Jonathan was 64 years of age at the outbreak of the war. In 1776 he hired John Savage to serve for him, but on the alarm of July 1, 1777, he and Jonathan Jr. entered the party of men raised from Captain Peter Clark’s company of militia. As privates, father and son marched with this unit (Samuel Houston, Lieutenant) from Lyndeborough, N.H. to Ticonderoga. The payroll, dated at Exeter, New Hampshire 26 February 1778, shows their entry as 1 July 1777, discharged 9 July 1777, time served 9 days, and amount of pay and expenses 3.2.10. Again in 1777 the two men marched with Captain Clark’s company, serving from September 30 to October 25. The company marched from Lyndeborough to Bennington to join the Northern Continental Army, covering a distance of 300 miles during the round trip. This pay for the 26 days was 6.18.10 each.\r\n\r\nI can only imagine what Lt. Samuel Houston was thinking about the 65-year-old man in his company. For the Chamberlains, they knew they were protecting their security and that of their neighbors. Not much has changed over the years except the label \"Patriot\" is now accompanied with a sneer. It is especially offensive coming from those who refer to a weapon as a gun, Marines as soldiers and the 101st Airborne belongs to the USMC.','2003-04-13 19:43:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1770,1,3210,'208.186.186.243','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Please consider this article on the subject of International NGOs.\r\n\r\nRelief agencies refuse to work with US\r\nBy Sandra Laville in Kuwait\r\n(Filed: 12/04/2003) \r\n\r\nhttp://www.dailytelegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/12/waid12.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/04/12/ixnewstop.html\r\n','2003-04-13 21:00:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1771,1,3319,'67.120.99.67','John Weidner','weidners@pacbell.net','http://jottings.blogspot.com','It seems odd that Iraqi officals were telling CNN all those ugly things. Were they just blabbermouths, or did they feel very confident that CNN was on their team?...','2003-04-13 22:28:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1772,1,3316,'24.69.255.237','Morris Birstein','moryet@shaw.ca','http://http','As a Canadian, let me tell you thatChretien is not long in this world politically. His successor is waiting in the wings. He is playing up to public opinion, particularly in Quebec, in order to get votes and stay in power. He is staying out of Iraq solely for personal political reasons. Canada never shirked in Korea Afghanistan or in peace-keeping missions. Be patient with us. We will get rid of him, but it takes time in a democracy.','2003-04-14 04:33:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1773,1,3102,'209.132.166.58','charity hall','aspen@ccrtc.com','','I started reading & felt the need to add my comments. I didn\'t read all but enough. As Far as the people commenting that this article of teacher doing such a thing is b.s. and didn\'t take place is b.s. Because I seen too many walk outs on news, for protest where the kids didn\'t really even know what they were protesting for. Any teacher who does such a thing as that, should never teach again. If they are not proud to be American, they should go live in Irac or Iran and see how much they care then. 1 That\'s why I will probley home school my 4 year old. Who\'s daddy is in Irac now.I am ashamed of the people protesting, they don\'t realize that is a right of our freedom & why we keep it. they can protest because of what our men are doing right now. I\'m really discusted w/ the anti-war activist. Because in a sense they only do it for fun & don\'t really care of what is real or really even know why our soldiers joined. My husband in basic at Ft. Benning stated most every man there joined for 9/11. & My 4-year old knows what her Daddy is gone for, to get bad guys. I don\'t hide alot from her fearing that someone else may get the info to her before I do. I\'d rather her hear it from me than someone or something else. Alot of people disagree, & say we shouldn\'t burden young children w/war, which I somewhat agree,but what do you do when they hear it somewhere else. And when their fathers/mothers are gone what do you tell them.?? She understands as best as she can, I don\'t let her worry as I do. She doesn\'t know that part. But atleast she can defend herself knowing her daddy is doing a good thing & not bad. These children go through enough as it is when they lose a parent for however long, any teachers should keep their oppinions to theirselves, that is not right. We have no choice my husband & her father is over there, it doesn\'t matter my opinion on whether the war should have begun or not. ','2003-04-14 04:52:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1774,1,3318,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','I second Eva\'s recommendation. In fact, one of our Saturday installments was a tribute to Idries Shah that recounted his life and achievements. \r\n\r\nWhile identifying the true Sufi is an eternal challenge for this branch of the faith, there is no disagreement regarding Idries Shah. He was absolutely a true Sufi Sheikh.','2003-04-14 08:29:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1775,1,3215,'206.190.18.117','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Trent,\r\n\r\n You saw something which Jerry was blind to.\r\n\r\n We have no choice if we wish to survive.\r\n\r\n Fortunately Bush is up to the job.\r\n\r\nSimon','2003-04-14 14:22:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1776,1,3324,'206.190.18.117','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','It may not even been an American tank round.\r\n\r\nI have seen analysis that shows several points.\r\n\r\n1. A tank can\'t elevate it\'s barrel sufficiently to get a round to the 15th (I think) floor.\r\n\r\n2. The design of the balconies does not allow a tank round to come into a room without hitting parts of the balcony. No hits were in evidence.\r\n\r\n3. Tank rounds leave shrapnel and severe damage to internal structures. No such signature found.\r\n\r\n4. The signature found was consistient with a detonation of unconfined high explosives indicating that the Iraqis may have killed the journalists to create an incident.\r\n\r\nYou will note that as far as investigation by journalists go this story has died. Perhaps because it does not actually conform to the Iraq good, America bad press bias.','2003-04-14 14:38:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1777,1,3326,'67.34.5.49','Pierre','webmaster@real.com','','What the cable/Internet revolution is doing to the news is opening up competition among viewpoints. The leftward bias of the media that once existed in the name of \"unbiased\" reporting is now giving way to a network of openly biased outlets. This is not a bad thing, but it does require the consumer of news to be more knowledgeable and to be aware of the viewpoint of the reporter.\r\n\r\nMy theory has been that the days of radio and television, outlets were limited to a practical maximum number. There were only 11 TV stations on the dial for years, and the formation of some of these stations into networks meant that only three TV networks would be economically viable nationwide. With only three major networks news organizations, it wasn\'t sensible for them to differentiate themselves ideologically... rather, all three competed to give news which was \"more unbiased\" or simply more timely than each other. And it tended to be somewhat left-leaning, though reasonably centrist. And pretty darned bland, too.\r\n\r\nAs the number of outlets has exploded in the cable/Internet era, people are increasingly turning to biased news sources, but (in my opinion) doing so knowingly. People can watch the war on Fox or they can watch it on al-Jazeera. MSNBC has obviously taken a look at Fox\'s ratings and decided they want a piece of that conservative action, and the two stations have engaged in a heated cheerleading competition (complete with catfights).\r\n\r\nLikewise, the New York Times, once the center-left standard of professionalism, now reads more like an alternative weekly (though they still have some great standalone reporting). \r\n\r\nThe three major networks still hold down the center-left mainstream... I expect that in due time, some broadcast or cable network will find itself a voice as a magnet for the left, and will start to differentiate itself in that manner, leading to a future where the market is dominated by news outlets that are either left-leaning or right-leaning.\r\n\r\nLikely some outlets will retain the \"unbiased\" label, and there will probably always be a market for that sort of presentation, too. Among newspapers, the Washington Post looks ready to assume that role from the NYT.','2003-04-14 14:53:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1778,1,3319,'206.222.52.18','Jeff Brokaw','jeffbrokaw@NOSPAMyahoo.com','http://jeffbrokaw.net/weblog/','While there could be more to this story, the most obvious explanation to me is the point above, also made on my weblog, that the TV news media has flip-flopped priorities over the last 20+ years; it is now primarily an engine for advertising dollars, and only secondarily involved with reporting and especially investigating news stories. The conflicts of interest are large and unavoidable.\r\n\r\nThis is a natural, but catastrophic, by-product of the 24 hour cable news cycle. James Fallows argues this quite impressively in \"Breaking the News\", the best book about the failures of the media I\'ve yet read (though the list is not that long, I\'ll admit).','2003-04-14 16:03:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1779,1,3319,'206.222.52.18','Jeff Brokaw','jeffbrokaw@NOSPAMyahoo.com','http://jeffbrokaw.net/weblog/','John W - you\'re right, why on earth would Uday or any other government source tell CNN who they were going to assassinate? That is really strange ... ','2003-04-14 16:06:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1780,1,3326,'171.161.160.10','Jeff Medcalf','medcalf@caerdroia.org','http://www.caerdroia.org/blog/','Interestingly enough, this is basically the situation that existed in the 1800s, with many openly-biased newspapers in each town.','2003-04-14 16:08:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1781,1,3327,'68.48.0.7','David Foster','photoncourier@yahoo.com','http://photoncourier.blogspot.com','Why wouldn\'t the law apply as written?--media companies are certainly corporations. Is there a specific exclusion?','2003-04-14 17:46:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1782,1,3324,'151.203.201.150','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','Hmmm, since the \"Maine Educators Controversy\" pretty much smeared every teacher in Bangor without any chance of defense, \'cause there never were any named accusing witnesses or specific teachers accused, I wonder what kind of journalism that was. Although it was huge with polemicists like Limbaugh, WorldNetDaily and O\'Reilly.\r\n\r\nBut Joe, I\'m in a good mood today, so check this out:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=14750\r\n\r\nThe Iraqi actually uses the phrase \"winds of change.\"\r\n','2003-04-14 18:01:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1783,1,3327,'216.190.71.133','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Try writing a law that defines \"paying for access.\"\r\n\r\nThe wonderful thing about a foreign government contract is that it is a legal, enforcecable, instrument whose existance cannot be denied in court.','2003-04-14 19:55:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1784,1,3327,'207.168.131.19','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Hmmm, I feel kinda stupid now. Never occured to me that these reporters were paying for protection and to have the right to broadcast from what was \"behind the lines\". Here I thought they were just brave. ','2003-04-14 20:15:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1785,1,3325,'65.59.57.190','M','nobody@utopiacentral.com','','It would be nice,but I think your optimistic.The embedded reporters you refer to are vastly outnumbered by management,editers and non-embedded peers.I just don\'t see a relativly small group risking career,social status and peer esteem.They\'ll either forget their experiences or just keep silent.\r\n\r\nOr move to Fox,which is one media outlet among many.','2003-04-14 21:41:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1786,1,3328,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','I\'m with Den Beste today... THESE are the pictures we should show in Europe. Utterly tasteless palaces, not jails or torture cells or nuclear weapons or any of those other things they wouldn\'t give a damn about anyway.','2003-04-14 21:57:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1787,1,3328,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Oh, yeah, while I\'m at it: Saturday Night Live needs to be all over this one with a skit or three.','2003-04-14 21:59:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1788,1,3034,'172.130.128.24','infamouse','lindenenii@aol.com','','France doesn\'t even have absolute freedom of speech. There are restrictions on the form and content of speech. I\'ve read you can be arrested and fined for insulting Jacques Chirac. Not to mention the bizarre restrictions on foreign words. Perhaps it is time to clean out your closet.','2003-04-14 22:20:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1789,1,3327,'12.254.166.252','Charles Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','','The most important thing is, of course, to keep the media\'s feet to the fire. I loved it yesterday when Sec\'y Rumsfeld would not let Tim Russert get away with asking a stupid question about the looting, and really put him on the defensive. Those politicians who are asked to be guests on these shows need to begin to confront their interrogators on these issues, and especially confront them when they ask stupid questions that imply a not so hidden agenda. I would love to see the President lay into Rather or Jennings. Remember when Rather made his career by asking Nixon if he were a crook. Well, turnabout is fair play. Someone should ask him on TV if he were a patsy for Saddam. God, I\'d pay money to see that!','2003-04-14 22:28:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1790,1,3319,'129.239.26.4','Adriane','kendophx@earthlink.net','','Not really.\r\n\r\nThe Hussain regime wanted the Iraqi people to know the extent of their \"power\". They made sure that the Iraqis knew about mass executions of women, stories of which were squelched in the foreign papers.\r\n\r\nLetting the people know that an assasination was scheduled; then letting them know it had been carried out, is a very chilling display of ruthless power.','2003-04-14 23:58:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1791,1,3267,'203.40.146.145','dogman','ironytower@hotmail.com','','Well, it seems that the POW\'s have been returned. Alive. Must be a pity for those who fantasise about \'atrocious arabs\'. Perhaps there is humanity left after all. Or perhaps the \"fear\" of the executions and/or torture of the TV POW\'s was just useful PR for the ongoing hearts and minds campaigns to dull peoples minds.\r\nRemember those people are PAID to do what they do, in my mind it is no comparison to the civilian equation.','2003-04-15 02:58:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1792,1,3267,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Dogman, we\'re quite certain that some of the POWs were indeed executed and others tortured. That isn\'t in dispute. Fortunately, it ended better for some.\r\n\r\nI\'m shocked that recovered the Apache pilots and some of the 507th, but of course very gratified as well. The precendents in Chechnya, Lebanon and Gulf War I for that matter were not at all encouraging. What was encouraging this time was the heroism of that Iraqi lawyer, and the decency of the Iraqis who pointed the Marines at these POWs.','2003-04-15 04:19:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1793,1,3319,'206.71.125.114','shady','andrewshady2003@yahoo.com','','If what you say hint at is true, that CNN is doing pre-emptive damage control and trying to hide something darker, I would think that this would fit the allegation to a tee.\r\n\r\nI found this at command-post.org. http://www.command-post.org/archives/005223.html (Please forgive me if the link doesn\'t come through, I\'m new to this.)\r\n\r\nIt was a summary of headlines from arabic media translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI).(Not my caps)\r\n\r\nON TUESDAY, THE DIRECTOR GENERAL OF THE IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTRY COLLECTED \'SERVICE CHARGES\' FROM FOREIGN JOURNALIST AT THE TUNE OF $200,000, THEN DISAPPEARED. (AL-SHARQ AL-AWSAT, LONDON 4/11/03)\r\n\r\nThat\'s my theory, anyway.','2003-04-15 04:43:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1794,1,3322,'207.170.32.52','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The women were compromised by breaking their cadet oath. So in a sense they were complicit in their trouble. No doubt they got more than they bargained for. No doubt the culture at the academy needs to change.\r\n\r\nOne must not forget though that combat is just as unforgiving of \"minor\" mistakes. In combat one breaks the rules only for very good reasons.\r\n\r\nI think the lesson these women got is harsh for the seriousness of the infraction. Life is like that sometimes.\r\n\r\n=================================================\r\n\r\nThe second point though is much harsher on the men. Placed in a position of privledge by the women\'s indiscretions they took advantage and assaulted them. This is not in the best tradition of our military, especially given that they not only fight for us but are our ambassadors. The men involved need to be drummed out of the service. The respect for women is one of the selling points of our civilization. The men who did the raping cannot represent us. Ever. In addition they ought to do some years of hard time. \r\n\r\n================================================\r\n\r\nThe rapes as I undestand the situation did not happen on the watches of the current (now former) commanders. What they are guilty of is not taking a firmer hand in changing the culture of the academy. Perhaps they can still serve some useful function in the military. They could be good officers not suited to the effort required. The fault in this instance is not totally the officers. It is tthe fault of what in the Navy is called the Bureau of Personel. I don\'t know what the Air Force equivalent is. The problem is that an Einstein might be good at atomic bomb design but not so good at leading an Army division. The personel office must know a man\'s limitations.\r\n\r\n==================================================\r\n\r\nThe officers who need to be severely punished are those in charge when the rape allegations were ignored. They are probably retired. I don\'t know how you punish retired officers. As far as I know it is rarely done.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-15 04:58:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1795,1,3322,'64.172.58.250','Joanne Jacobs','joanne@readjacobs.com','http://www.joannejacobs.com','I think the part about expelling cadets for underage drinking must be a typo. What I\'ve read is that they\'re going to give amnesty to cadets who\'ve broken rules on underage drinking, fraternization, etc. so they can report sexual assault. ','2003-04-15 04:58:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1796,1,3325,'64.28.100.149','Ratbane','tcobb@onr.com','','I know it will not happen, but nevertheless I think it would be fascinating if there was a Congressional inquiry into this phenomenon whereby the major journalists who cover events in Palestine and other miserable hell holes were called in to testify about the kind of amoral and unethical garbage that CNN did in Iraq. I have no doubt that the same dynamic is occurring in these other places. It would amuse me to no end to see these bastards turned over the coals until they are exposed as the rotten whores that they are.','2003-04-15 05:05:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1797,1,3326,'152.163.189.131','barry','apache7tears@aol.com','','There isn\'t anyone I know that trust the news anchors and believe me Tom brokaw is a news whore just like jennings and what\'s his name on late night ABC these folks are the ones who always cry \'WOLF\" or \"The sky is falling AGAIN\" nobody believes them. Hell i quit watching 10 years ago I watch Sat news now and I don\'t watch CNN at all.','2003-04-15 05:15:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1798,1,3322,'207.170.32.52','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The whole under age drinking bit in the US of A is toatal BS.\r\n\r\nAs we learn more about the brain we know that chemical stress relief can actually enhance over all performance. Stress can lock pain into the brain. Chemicals can relieve that stress until it naturally decays in the brain.\r\n\r\nThe use of all kinds of drugs peaks in the 18 to 24 year old age group and declines there after. In addition the effect of a given stressor on an individual is in part genetically determined. Thus a stress that might not bother one individual might drive another to drink.\r\n\r\nDuring about 1/2 the period of maximum stress for most individuals the stress reliever alcohol is denied to people who may need it most. And god forbid that you should prefer pot to alcohol. \r\n\r\nGiven our current beliefs about the nature of alcohol as a drug in particular and drugs in general I\'m not surprised that under age drinking is an expelling offence.\r\n\r\n ','2003-04-15 05:16:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1799,1,3329,'209.180.234.80','Timothy','nothf@yahoo.com','http://www.oregoncommentator.com','I think it has a lot to do with each group\'s definition of progress. \r\n\r\nThe Left seems to view it as moving toward some sort of humanist utopia in which everyone can be rich, there is no scarcity, and mankind survives on its good intentions alone. At least, this is the public face they put on. Privately, the left must certainly know that such ideas are in direct opposition to 10,000 years of human history. So, they carp and whine and try to pass laws which they claim level the playing field, but really send the message that certain people are unfit to compete with everyone else on their individual merits. The Left wishes to push society toward something they know will never work, and thusly sets out to undermine the true equality that meritocracy brings.\r\n\r\nClassical conservatives, however, see progress as the natural evolution of human affiars. Therefore, they publicly denounce attempts to push society in a certain direction, or to depart from what could be considered the natural rate of societal change. This seems, to an observer, an indication that the conservative camp wishes to stagnate society, to freeze it in some sort of Leave It To Beaver moment for all of eternity. Conservatives know better than this, and in their hearts believe in the natural progress and change of society over time. They simply do not want to muck it up by trying to force things in a particular way.','2003-04-15 05:35:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1800,1,3325,'67.122.72.3','Dishman','pmorem@yahoo.com','','What I found as disturbing as almost anything else was Dr. Gupta\'s statement after performing neurosurgery. He said something to the effect of \"I concluded it was ethically and medically sound..\"\r\n\r\nWhy is it necessary for a doctor to defend the Hippocratic Oath like that?\r\n\r\nIs there some \'code\' among journalists that could possibly preempt the Hippocratic Oath at some point?\r\n','2003-04-15 05:40:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1801,1,3327,'64.28.100.149','Ratbane','tcobb@onr.com','','Is there a First Amendment violation when communications are required to be identified as paid political advertisements? If not, what real impediment is there to require the media to identify stories as \"censored state propoganda?\" Let them say whatever they want, but if they fail to label it for what it is then let them pay a really steep fine for failing to identify it as such.','2003-04-15 05:50:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1802,1,3329,'24.128.70.156','rickshaw','friedcows@moo.com','','I appreciate your attempt at initializing some sort of thoughtful debate. However the framing of the hypothesis is too broad to be considered with any real intellectual relfection. It would be helpful if you were to include some names as to help define what is \"classical conservatism\" and \"the left.\" By \"classical conservatism\" do you mean Jesse Helms or Ronald Reagan? By \"the left\" do you mean Martin Luther King or Noam Chomsky? And as the previous commentor noted, a definition of \"progress\" would be helpful as well. Or you could have just said \"the left\" has their heads in the clouds (of pot smoke). While \"classical conservatism\" has a real grasp of innate human nature and forms policy righteously as such. Or maybe the request to \"discuss\" was rhetorical humor, in which case I take this post back. Big loves, C. ','2003-04-15 06:30:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1803,1,3326,'204.210.225.152','Sartorius','abwinkler@columbus.rr.com','http://bfm.iasis.net','Interestingly enough, this is basically the situation that existed in the 1800s, with many openly-biased newspapers in each town.\r\n\r\nTrue story:\r\n\r\nMorgan\'s (Confederate) Raiders tore through my hometown in Ohio in 1864.\r\n\r\nIt is recorded that they stopped only long enough to burn down the Republican newspaper.\r\n\r\nTwelve hours later, the pursuing Union cavalry passed along the same route. They stopped only long enough to burn down the Democratic newspaper.\r\n','2003-04-15 07:02:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1804,1,3326,'209.240.198.62','D. Bates','deebates@webtv.net','','This war has done plenty to awaken people to what is happening in this country, and not just in regard to the media. These journalists, for the most part, are college-educated and own degrees. Just what the hell were they taught, anyway? Into whose hands have we placed the minds of our children? And at great expense, I might add.\r\n\r\nFor once, I\'ll stand next to the Mrs. Reverend Lovejoy and scream, \"Won\'t somebody PLEASE think of the Children?\"','2003-04-15 10:11:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1805,1,3325,'209.240.198.62','D. Bates','deebates@webtv.net','','Dishman: I have an even better one (if it could be classified that way).\r\n\r\nI think it was on MSNBC. We were shown astounding footage of a fire fight under a highway. The Marines (I think it was Marines) were being shot at from all sides. One man being carried out on a stretcher sat up an fired two shots, killing someone trying to kill the men carrying him. One man ran to one of two ammo trucks that had been brought up for resupply; it was sitting next to one that had taken a direct hit and had ammo cooking off. He was trying to save his comrades and the much needed ammo.\r\n\r\nWhile narrating the piece, the man who took the footage said that he almost picked up a gun himself. The ditz sitting in the studio asked him - now get this! - if he had thought about it because he was \"caught up in the moment?\"\r\n\r\nHe informed her that he had thought about it because his life was in danger and he was thinking about defending himself. And, admirably, he did so with a straight face.\r\n\r\nAnd anyone who would \"feel uncomfortable\" with Dr. Gupta\'s ethical choice has no business speaking the words \"journalism\" and \"ethics\" in the same breath. ','2003-04-15 10:26:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1806,1,3329,'24.165.194.138','Ken Barnes','tpgfaq@tpgfaq.org','http://www.tpgfaq.org/','Unfortunately, there\'s little I could say on this topic that hasn\'t already been written better by Thomas Sowell in \"A Conflict Of Visions\" and \"The Vision Of The Annointed\" (or Friedrich Hayek in \"The Fatal Conceit\" for that matter).\r\n\r\nThe basic conflict comes from a difference in underlying assumptions about human capacity to remake society, and whether we can have a sufficient understanding of what Hayek calls \"the extended order\" (the complex social and economic structures human beings have evolved over time) to even make the attempt to force apparently desirable changes without producing undesirable and even worse effects elsewhere.\r\n\r\nHayek\'s theme implies that these dynamic structures contain more information than any individual or group could ever hope to have access to in time to make rational changes to them. Combine that fact with the loss of information involved in attempting to make these structures conform to our greatly simplified abstract models of them, and you begin to understand how Hayek could predict the failure of the grand proposals of the \"planned economy\".\r\n\r\nMost of what we conservatives see as progress today involves undoing the damage done to traditional markets and institutions by those who thought they had a better idea than what people were doing for themselves. The irony is, many of the same people who object to human interference in the complex systems of nature because we lack the understanding of how our activities will cause adverse changes, have no such qualms about reordering human society and its evolved complex interrelationships, despite the demonstrated harm that many of their proposals have already caused when tried on a small scale.','2003-04-15 13:07:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1807,1,3322,'204.142.130.8','Henry','carmich@bigfoot.com','','M. Simon commented: \"I don\'t know how you punish retired officers. As far as I know it is rarely done.\"\r\n\r\nIt can be done, although, as you say, it is rare. The retired officer is re-activated to the service, then punished, if a court martial returns a conviction.','2003-04-15 14:52:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1808,1,3319,'68.54.236.210','Jeff Carroll','jkc@frosch.com','','I\'m with Adriane here. Why does Uday tell CNN who he\'s going to kill? Because that\'s what killing people is all about.\r\n\r\nUday kills people so that he can talk about himself killing people. He rapes little girls so that he can talk about himself raping little girls. He tortures soccer players so that he can talk about himself torturing soccer players.\r\n\r\nLooking for rational thought processes from this guy is a mistake. He\'s such a screwup even at being a bully that the old man had to fire him in favor of his little brother.','2003-04-15 15:19:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1809,1,3329,'207.168.128.86','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Hmmm, all of the above seem pretty dead on to me. Of course I don\'t have that much room in my little head. Some observations: Lefties seem to want to preserve \"freedom\", of choice, expression, speech, whatever, no matter the social costs. The individual should never have to reign in their whims and wills for the greater good of society, society should have to bear the burden of putting up with such colorful characters as say, Al Goldstein, publisher of Screw magazine. Righties want to save the world by building things, companies mostly, and righties can justify getting filthy stinking rich that way, because the more they make, the better off everyone else is supposed to be. Whats \"filthy stinking rich\"? The president earned $400,000 last year for duties as president. No problem there. His income off his investments, just the interest earned, was more than that. He has to have one hell of a 401K, No?\r\nLike I said, just observations. I think either system works, as long as the people involved are basicly good, honest, moral people. It\'s the individuals on both sides who are really selfish with hidden agendas that ball things up. Another observation: Eventualy you learn almost everyone has a hidden agenda.','2003-04-15 15:22:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1810,1,3325,'165.121.209.189','ronnie schreiber','ronnies@ix.netcom.com','http://www.rokemneedlearts.com','I\'m sure that some professors of journalism might get upset over an embedded reporter considering picking up a rifle to defend himself or the CNN crew that went into Tikrit a bit early and the security guy in their SUV had to fire his automatic weapon when they came upder fire from Saddam loyalists. The idea is that if a journalist arms himself or becomes a party to the conflict it would endanger all journalists.\r\n\r\nThis may be an ethical position to take, but it flies in the face of human reality. If your life is in danger you will try to protect it.','2003-04-15 15:25:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1811,1,3329,'205.188.209.39','Christian','chrisleb1@aol.com','','I believe that conservatives see progress as limited by human nature (human nature being a given, how can we control its bad aspects?). The Left believes that human nature can itself be transcended (human nature being so problematic, how can we eliminate its bad aspects?).','2003-04-15 15:58:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1812,1,3329,'206.222.52.18','Jeff Brokaw','jeff@nothanks.net','http://jeffbrokaw.net/weblog/','Conservatives believe in what works, and are willing to reset their expectations to match the empirical evidence they see around them and in human history. \r\n\r\n\"Liberals\" - lefty radicalism, more accurately - believe in what they think should work, and will not reset their expectations, and do not value contrary empirical evidence to any great degree. It is a secular faith, when you get right down to it. \r\n\r\nToday\'s libertarians would have been called liberals 50 years ago, if they also believed in FDR\'s nanny-style government. \r\n \r\nMy $.02 anyway - each side has pluses and minuses, but only conservatism learns from the past, which is the only sensible option for me. ','2003-04-15 16:53:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1813,1,3319,'67.89.203.188','Anne','annezo@fastmail.fm','http://peevish.blogspot.com','I\'d be more inclined to believe the CNN bureau in Iraq was a CIA front than an Iraqi intelligence front. FWIW\r\n\r\nAlso?\r\n\r\n\"A CNN employee in Atlanta admitted to me that they did not care if they got their reporting accurate. They only wanted to get it on the air first and in the most dramatic manner possible. Their primary purpose was to make money by selling ad space, not reporting the news.\"\r\n\r\nI\'d say most of the media feels that way today. The push for ratings and the accompany advertising dollars is making \'fast\' a heckuva lot more important than \'right.\' \r\n\r\nI miss Walter Cronkite.','2003-04-15 16:55:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1814,1,3325,'67.116.7.130','Bill Quick','pundit@dailypundit.com','http://www.DailyPundit.com','With all due respect to C. Blake Powers, Daily Pundit made the same predictions about embedded reporters on March 20, nearly two weeks earlier than his post.\r\n\r\nHe\'s right, though. These embedded reporters will make a difference, because they are the nets\'s rising stars. That\'s why they were embedded in the first place. Some of them will become huge. And their influence will be all out of proportion to their numbers. Would it matter if dozens of no-names hated the military, as long as long as Dan Rather was friendly?\r\n\r\nThat\'s the situation we\'re looking at, not all that many years down the road. ','2003-04-15 16:56:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1815,1,3322,'209.254.96.100','Richard Aubrey','EAubrey103@aol.com','','As far as I know, not a single rape has been proved in court.\r\nTechnically, then, they didn\'t officially happen.\r\nWhat we have are allegations, some of which are short of the kind of evidence which can be investigated after the fact.\r\nRape happens in the military at about one-fifth the rate it happens among civilians.\r\nMost other crime happens at a tenth or less the rate in the \"world\". So rape is an anomaly in this regard.\r\nOne USAF study found that one-third of reported rapes were false reports, the criterion for the judgment being recantation by the women in question.\r\nApplying this correction factor, we have a very low number of actual rapes, of which some substantial portion cannot, because of individual circumstances, be investigated to the extent a solid conclusion can be reached, or a prosecution begun.\r\nMost of the reports I\'ve seen in the news are versions of date rape. In date rape,both parties usually agree that sexual intercourse happened, while disagreeing on the subject of consent. However, proving that consent was not given is nearly impossible without the confession of the man.\r\nThis is beginning to sound like Tailhook, where no prosecutions were attempted due to lack of evidence, except for one guy who turned out to have been the wrong guy. That\'s a pretty good defense and a solid indictment of the hysteria-driven rage to prosecute somebody, no matter who.\r\nTailhook was, however, the answer to NOW\'s dreams. \r\nLet\'s see if the Academy\'s situation is addressed as crime or as a political opportunity.\r\nMy money\'s on the latter.','2003-04-15 17:39:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1816,1,3329,'24.128.70.156','rickshaw','friedcows@moo.com','','\"possibly cranks are necessary to lead the first suicide attacks on orthodoxy that enable those who come after to establish a bridgehead and win the victory.\" - Thomas Sowell [A man alone. (Tom Sowell)\r\nBy Peter Brimelow\r\nForbes, August 24, 1987]\r\n\r\nSign me up. C.\r\n','2003-04-15 18:08:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1817,1,3328,'66.187.129.18','Zogby Blog','k_zogby@hotmail.com','http://zogby.blogspot.com','When O heard that yesterday I couldn\'t believe my ears. Then, I remembered being in Amman, Jordan, circa 1986, sitting in a cafe with two blonde german girls. While we were eating and talking, a small crowd, 7-10 men, gathered around us. I thought they probably heard us speaking english and wanted to talk with us, so I asked one of the men, in Arabic, what he wanted. He said that they didn\'t want anything, they just wanted to look at the girls with the \"golden\" hair. Needless to say, I was Flummoxed. But, after 10 months in Arab countries, only seeing women with their bodies completely covered, I went to Tel Aviv, where the girls on the beach were wearink bikinis you could stuff into a thimball. At that point, I sort of knew how those Arabs felt.','2003-04-15 18:15:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1818,1,3334,'67.30.185.249','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','There seems to be some well-founded speculation that more than a bit of the looting was done well prior to the liberation of Baghdad by Ba\'athist Party members for their own personal gain. \r\n','2003-04-15 19:23:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1819,1,3328,'67.30.185.249','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','As to that compost heap; that would ruin a perfectly good pile of fertilizer! \r\n','2003-04-15 19:26:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1820,1,2986,'206.82.16.34','Nazir','nazir_n-goodguy@kulichki.ru','http://15478.ut','Looks like a revolutionary plane, that will be a root of the planes of the fifth generation. I\'m impressed with this plane.','2003-04-15 19:47:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1821,1,3329,'204.124.240.254','T. Hartin','zgolem@yahoo.com','','The paradox in the US is that the US is founded on revolution, in a way all those Marxist auhtoritarians can never conceive. Thus, in the US, to be a conservative is to be a revolutionary, while \"liberals\" in US parlance are actually defending a particular phase of the ongoing (r)evolution and trying to freeze it as the permanent status quo.\r\n\r\nThe proof of this is in current foreign policy. Liberals decry the destabilization of the middle east, while conservatives are doing their damnedest to destabilize it and replace it with a liberal democracy (in the old sense).\r\n\r\nMakes your head spin, no?','2003-04-15 20:04:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1822,1,3334,'207.213.48.10','weimdog','weimdog02@yahoo.com','','Always two sides to every story. Here is a report from The New Republic - \r\n\r\n\"One friend told me that the looting of the National Museum--something that cut deeply into me--was the work of newly deposed Baathist officials, who had been selling off our patrimony as they saw their days were numbered. As the regime fell, these (ex-)Baathists went back for one last swindle, and took with them treasures that dated back 9,000 years, to the Sumerians and the Babylonians. One final crime perpetrated by Saddam\'s thugs.\"\r\n\r\nhttp://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=iraq&s=diary041403\r\n \r\n','2003-04-15 20:13:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1823,1,3334,'207.164.54.200','Peter Burnet','pburnet@burnetlaw.com','','I\'m sorry, but the hand-wringing about the Iraqi museum artifacts is a little much. Sure, let\'s do everything to save them while we are at the same time finishing off the Fedayeen, stopping looting, providing humanitarian assistance to the whole country, restoring water and power, attending to civilian casualties, avoiding all the mosques, ushering in a new government, finding the war criminals etc. etc., all with a deft, unobtrusive hand and exquisite cultural sensitivity and all with the world second-guessing at every turn. I suppose within a few days the world will be screaming at the Americans because the kindergartens aren\'t reopened yet.\r\n\r\nSorry. I know it is important, but I\'m still raw that the world shrugged off the discovery of the children\'s prison so quickly. Sort of like being horrified at the WTC 9/11 attack because it flooded the Guggenheim!','2003-04-15 21:00:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1824,1,3333,'138.133.17.9','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Joe, I had lunch this wekeend with a CA state legislator who is leading the anti-spam efforts here, and she comments that AOL and Microsoft are the biggest opponents of her bill.\r\n\r\nI\'d infer from her comments that AOL and MSN are interested in monetizing their control of your mailbox, and that restricting third-party access to it is a part of their playbook.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-04-15 21:03:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1825,1,3329,'24.128.70.156','rickshaw','floweringloveballads@teepee.com','','I guess it\'s o.k. to do business with brutal oppressive regimes as long as they provide low cost employment solutions. But I\'m sure the market will work out those sticky human rights violations in China, right? Eventually anyway. Maybe we should have just let Iraq into the WTO.\r\nConservative good, liberal bad. Discuss. \r\n\r\nhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A59580-2001Sep19?language=printer ','2003-04-15 21:06:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1826,1,3329,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Every time I see a \"Made in China\" sticker, I wonder if it was made with slave labour (above and beyond the theoretical sense in which all labour in China is slave labour). \r\n\r\nFrankly, China concerns me. Many developments there strike me as being closer to \"national socialism\" than Marxist socialism. The only good news I see is that religion, if allowed to grow quietly, could wind up playing a role similar to that in the Roman Empire, and begin to change the hollow shell from within. \r\n\r\nTying trade to human rights there is something I support. If we can reliably label \"dolphin safe tuna\" and \"cruelty-free\" cosmetics, we ought to be able to do the same for people. ','2003-04-15 21:13:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1827,1,3329,'24.128.70.156','rickshaw','taboofun@rottweilers.com','','o.k. my last post, i promise. liberals are empty headed morons and conservatives are heartless moneygrubbers. i\'m sure this debate will continue into the anals (sic) of history. but without pluralism you have fascism. so let\'s try to avoid broad sweeping generalizations that tend to demonize \"the opposition\" and focus our debate instead on specific policy. the fact is, it is irrelevant why someone self identifies as liberal (not enough spanking from mommy) or conservative (grandaddy owned a plantation). The thought of living under either faction\'s regime is disturbing. Political discourse in my country (America) seems to have been reduced to name calling and ad hominem attacks by a large sector of the population. If you are reduced to suggesting that your opposition is \"dumb\" or \"immoral\" or \"they just don\'t get it\" then maybe your arguments aren\'t that strong to begin with. Thanks to Ken Barnes for turning me on to Thomas Sowell. I can\'t wait to dig in. Thanks, c. ','2003-04-15 22:20:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1828,1,3334,'24.202.65.91','Nima Arian','nimaarian@canada.com','http://derision.blogspot.com','I think the one thing that makes the Iraqis loot their national properties is a little different from just economic poverty, it\'s \"cultural poverty.\" This issue will threaten the future of Iraq. They don\'t seem to be able to keep the democracy after coalition forces\' departure. I\'m really worried. May be the Iraqis are not as educated as we assumed they were.','2003-04-15 22:21:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1829,1,3331,'12.253.20.38','scott h.','scott_helg@yahoo.com','','Strong is al-Sahaf\r\nInformation Minister\r\nHe\'ll bite your legs off','2003-04-15 23:47:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1830,1,3331,'12.253.20.38','scott h.','scott_helg@yahoo.com','','Found your flat, Saddam\r\nShag carpet is way groovy\r\nNo more porn for you','2003-04-16 00:16:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1831,1,3331,'12.253.20.38','scott h.','scott_helg@yahoo.com','','Look at the Bush twins\r\nIn this I am like Uday\r\nMust work on my abs','2003-04-16 00:20:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1832,1,3329,'199.105.112.198','Anon','dev@null.net','','Most people\'s beliefs today are ad hoc, self-contradictory and thoroughly random.','2003-04-16 00:36:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1833,1,3333,'207.213.48.10','weimdog','weimdog02@yahoo.com','','You really need to try some thinly sliced Spam fried in a pan then rolled in a warm flour tortilla. Delicious!\r\n','2003-04-16 00:52:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1834,1,3333,'138.133.17.10','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','LOL, we ate at a local Hawaiian restaurant, and the apetizer was a SPAM handroll...SPAM, rice, wasabi, cucumber, rolled in nori.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-04-16 01:19:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1835,1,3334,'65.43.143.150','Ara Rubyan','ara@rubyan.com','http://www.rubyan.com/politics','I\'m glad I read this thread. It hadn\'t ocurred to me that the worst looting was done by the Baathist thugs on their way out of town.\r\n\r\nReminds me of a similar crime perpetrated by the Nazis in the closing days of WWII. They packed a train full of treasures taken from the Jews in the camps. I think it was dubbed the Gold Train or something like that. Anyone remember?\r\n\r\nThat said, it wouldn\'t have been hard to park an Abrams tank at the front door to the Museum. That would have discouraged most of the \"common\" looters. ','2003-04-16 01:44:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1836,1,3333,'65.43.143.150','Ara Rubyan','ara@rubyan.com','http://www.rubyan.com/politics','Ack.\r\n\r\nSeriously, how does the CA legislation define spam? Or does it? Some of the legislation I\'ve seen doesn\'t seek to stop unsolicitied commercial email, but rather to stop the \"disguisment\" of the identity of the sender. \r\n\r\n','2003-04-16 01:49:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1837,1,3331,'65.43.143.150','Ara Rubyan','ara@rubyan.com','http://www.rubyan.com/politics','Hey! Why are Chemical Ali\'s victims in hell?','2003-04-16 01:50:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1838,1,3334,'66.129.135.82','xavier','buscaraons@netscape.net','http://www.buscaraons.blogspot.com','Joe:\r\nThere\'s also a non-binding convetion from UNIDROIT: the 1995 UNDROIT convention againstillegally exported cultural object\r\nhttp://www.unidroit.org/english/conventions/c-cult.htm\r\nThat\'s something to look into and apply if possible\r\nxavier ','2003-04-16 02:22:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1839,1,3322,'64.12.96.104','dan truly','boltthrow@aol.com','','that guy\'s name was Sylvanus Taco Gilbert?','2003-04-16 02:34:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1840,1,3334,'12.47.68.84','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','I\'m probably one of the blogospherians Joe spoke of. Although buildings can be rebuilt, this stuff is gone, gone, gone. It never occured to me that the looting may have just been a cover for the outright theft that possibly occured weeks before the city fell. I remember two pictures, one of a man carrying the head away off the Saddam statue that was torn down in Baghdad, and the other of a boy carrying away a gilded sink. I thought both just wanted a souvineer. We westerners have so much I can\'t relate to the feelings of people who have had nothing for as long as they\'ve lived. ','2003-04-16 03:29:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1841,1,3334,'209.246.107.203','Diana','gotham@realwomenonline.com','','I too am one of the bloggers who is disgusted at the looting.\r\n\r\nPerhaps a more nuanced view of some of the \"appropriation\" may emerge, but I disavow the idea that being anti-looting somehow means you give Saddam\'s crimes a miss. I sure didn\'t.\r\n\r\nThe National Museum is a combination of the Guggenheim, the Met, the Modern and the American Museum of Natural History. If they were destroyed, it would be a cultural disaster. \r\n\r\nI\'d like to see PROOF that the National Museum was sacked by Baathists. It\'s just too convenient to believe. Likewise the Jonathan Foreman article glosses over the destruction of the Museum in one sentence in the middle of the article. \r\n\r\nLastly I think that the 9/11-Guggenheim analogy is flawed. 9/11 was an attack. Getting rid of Saddam was a good thing. It was followed by bad things. That doesn\'t vitiate the fact that deposing Saddam was a good thing. ','2003-04-16 03:57:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1842,1,3322,'66.248.98.69','Lisa','tlcbragg@netzero.net','','Why is there ANYTHING wrong with the expulsion of ANY student, male or female, for under age drinking? How is that putting an unfair burden on the women? As a woman who was in the enlisted ranks of the US Navy, I seem to recall underage drinking infractions being more than enough to get me expelled from my \"A\" school training program. Why should an enlisted female be held to a higher standard than that of a female officer? Rape allegations should have nothing to do with that issue.\r\n\r\nHowever to address the issue of rape allegations, it is completely unfair to place all of the burden of responsibility on those officers in charge at the time of the allegations. That would be similar to placing the burden of a civilian rape between two coworkers on their boss. My understanding is that none of the alleged rapes took place during training exercises, but rather during the cadets\' off duty hours. And while I agree that any man found to be guilty of rape should be thrown out of the military and forced to do time at Leavenworth, I also think that any woman who is considered responsible enough to represent our country should also be responsible enough to take the appropriate actions following a rape (hospital visit and law enforcement notification as soon as feasibly possible) so that the alleged rape can be found to have enough evidence for prosecution to take place. I realize that the emotional ramifications of a rape make it more difficult to think clearly (and I speak from experience here), but I also feel that if these women cannot handle those ramifications and still follow the appropriate procedures, then they certainly do not belong in a combat situation, or any other military situation which may require clear thinking and appropriate action in the wake of major emotions. And while no woman is ever at fault for being raped, any intelligent woman knows that it is not necessarily smart to put yourself in a position where you have been drinking and then go into a situation that may be conducive to sexual assault. \r\n\r\nIf the Air Force is taking steps to handle the issue of these past allegations and to prevent the same from occurring again, I think that is all anyone should reasonably expect of them. It\'s a heckuva a lot more than is being done to prevent reoccurrences of rape crimes in the civilian sector.','2003-04-16 04:51:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1843,1,3334,'206.190.18.189','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','There was no shortage of weapons in Iraq. If the trustees of the museum and it\'s curators cared so much about the artifacts they should have been guarding them. Where were the Iraqi guards who guarded the place during Saddam\'s regime? \r\n\r\nI read of a hospital where those who worked in it guarded it against looters. Why were the museum people unwilling to do the same?\r\n\r\nSelf government is possible when people are willing to organize for their own defence. Is it possible that the calls for self determination by the Iraqis is premature?\r\n\r\nOr have these events taught them a lesson?\r\n\r\nWe shall see.','2003-04-16 05:32:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1844,1,3334,'206.190.18.189','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The Iraqis looted their own museum and now it is America\'s fault? (Baathist Iraqis or orinary citizens what is the diff? Other than politics.)\r\n\r\nAre we going to have to be their daddy forever? Is that what they really want?\r\n\r\nThey don\'t want America running their country they say. Fine. Then it is up to the Iraqis to investigate the looting and punish the looters.\r\n\r\nThey want to run their own country? Excellent. Here is a good place to start.','2003-04-16 05:39:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1845,1,3334,'206.190.18.189','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Fox news reports that some British archeologists who saw the displays after the museum re-opened said that many of the artifacts were reproductions.\r\n\r\nIf this is the case the \"looting\" was probably a coverup for the real crime.','2003-04-16 06:43:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1846,1,3334,'61.59.137.116','Malthusiast','thimblefulofthorns@yahoo.com','http://thimblefulofthorns.blogspot.com/','For a more upbeat \"analysis\" of looting, see my post: \"LIKE, MAN, IT\'S SO, LIKE ... SURREAL!\"\r\n(Monday, April 14, 2003)','2003-04-16 07:29:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1847,1,3333,'203.5.41.210','Andrew','s@p.am','http://www.livejournal.com/users/anachronym','One of the funnier spams (in a wretched sort of way) that I\'ve gotten was one that had been sent from a hotmail account. At the bottom was tacked on something like: \"Tired of spam? Try MSN\'s new mail service yadda yadda...\"\r\n\r\nI think they do have their own ideas about how spam should be fought. :P\r\n','2003-04-16 08:00:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1848,1,3331,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Ara,\r\n\r\nFor Ali hell begins\r\nVictims welcome and witness\r\nJustice\'s healing','2003-04-16 09:45:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1849,1,3331,'64.203.13.66','Mac','nags_bane@yahoo.com','','Again he promised\r\n\"The Mother of All Battles.\"\r\nNot even \"the child.\" ','2003-04-16 09:52:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1850,1,3334,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Malthusiast, you have a good site - and a poetic bent I see. The URL he refers to is right here, but I much prefer this post of free verse tied to a picture.','2003-04-16 10:03:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1851,1,3322,'62.254.0.6','David Newton','davidp_newton@hotmail.com','','The last part pf the blog entry asks what should be done to female cadets who are raped while drinking under 21? What should happen is that the rape allegation should be investigated regardless, and the cadets concerned should be punished for the underage drinking under the UCMJ.\r\n\r\nThe existence of a serious offence like rape does not excuse another rules breaking like underage drinking. Whether 21 or 18 is an appropriate drinking age is another, entirely different question. The fact of the matter is that for the moment, it is illegal to buy alcohol under 21 in the US. Until and unless that changes, the rules breakers should be prosecuted.\r\n\r\nMilitary officers are expected to be leaders who are respected by the enlisted personnel they are commanding. People who break rules like those on underage drinking are no more likely to be respected than those who commit a more serious crime like rape. Whilst the breach of the rules varies in scope and seriousness, the loss of respect that said breach entails does not.','2003-04-16 10:36:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1852,1,3335,'68.52.70.6','Donald Sensing','thisis@notit.com','http://www.donaldsensing.com/','I wrote last June that al Qaeda was already on the ropes. I still think so. \r\n\r\nAl Qaeda was much more fagile than we thought. I do not predict that al Qaeda will neither attempt nor succeed in deadly attacks inside the US again. I do predict that they will not be able to mount an attack approaching the magnitude of Sept. 11\'s. They have been hurt too much in personnel losses and interruption of their command and control. ','2003-04-16 13:42:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1853,1,3336,'207.168.131.175','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','You forgot the last line,\r\n:No more Jenna or Barbara too.','2003-04-16 14:05:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1854,1,3335,'207.168.131.175','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','They have also used their element of surprise and the US won\'t be caught sleeping again any time soon. The down side is that we now have a patriotic right to bias and prejudice. I\'d rather wear a bulls eye on my back than a turban on my head in the US right now.','2003-04-16 14:15:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1855,1,3337,'207.168.131.175','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','There certainly do seem to be more excelent blogs popping up every day. If I had to check all that I liked I wouldn\'t get any work done in a day, er, I gotta go!','2003-04-16 14:16:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1856,1,3335,'64.231.124.187','Nicholas Packwood','nicholaspackwood@yahoo.com','http://ghostofaflea.blogspot.com/2003_04_13_ghostofaflea_archive.html#92714822','About 19 months ago, Americans were worried about shark attacks and some evil men thought Americans had grown weak. During the war in Iraq, American women flew A-10s, packed M16s in ground combat roles and even the supply clerks fought until they ran out of ammo.','2003-04-16 15:36:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1857,1,3335,'204.124.240.254','T. Hartin','zgolem@yahoo.com','','Chill, Dave. I don\'t think that most Middle Eastern looking folks in the US are experiencing any significant harassment. All you have to do is go to the CAIR website, where they will collect (and hype) any such harassment that does occur. When even CAIR can\'t claim massive discrimination and harassment, you can be pretty sure it aint happening in any large-scale or systematic way.','2003-04-16 15:37:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1858,1,3338,'12.111.129.60','Oceanguy','oceanguy_fl@yahoo.com','http://oceanguy.blogspot.com','Nicely done, thank you.\r\n\r\nPesach v\'Sameach ','2003-04-16 15:55:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1859,1,3329,'66.163.6.154','Kevin Brennan','strategy@rentagurkha.com','http://www.rentagurkha.com/','Why \"today\", Anon?','2003-04-16 16:53:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1860,1,3335,'65.165.63.60','Dan Darling','scorpius@shwiggie.com','http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com',' I tend to disagree, in part because of the five thwarted attempts to use chemical weapons against targets in Western Europe between November 2002 and January 2003. I also think that because of the nature of the conflict (assymetrical) many Americans have a skewed perspective on the nature of the enemy as well as their state of preparedness and willingness to act.\r\n\r\n Keep in mind that 9/11 was roughly two years in the making. The US Embassy bombings occurred in roughly the same time frame. Yet just in the last year we\'ve had Bali, Moscow, and Mombasa (which was thankfully thwarted due to the shooters inability to hit that El Al plane), all of which have been launched under al-Qaeda\'s aegis. Any one of these attacks could have been the worst terrorist attack of any given year.\r\n\r\n I think that we significantly damaged them in Afghanistan and that the capture of Abu Zubaydah pretty much put them out of commission for about three to five months. I fully expect the capture of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to do the same. But as long as the cash keeps on flowing and they still have safe havens, whether in Afghanistan or Chechnya or Somalia or anywhere else in the world, they\'ll come back sooner or later.\r\n\r\n More to the point, I think our initial assessment of the organization\'s capabilities was by and large inaccurate. If you look at the initial assessment of the group, they were estimated at only having around 3,000 members. Hell, we\'ve captured or killed twice that many and they still keep on coming, if not against us than certainly against our allies.','2003-04-16 17:51:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1861,1,3338,'66.105.229.74','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Excellent, Joe! You should get this published more widely. \r\n\r\nPS I worked your link into my running Pesach commentary on Kesher Talk. Hag sameach.','2003-04-16 18:54:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1862,1,3337,'66.105.229.74','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','That\'s a shame - LFG was one of my daily reads. Come back soon Diane!','2003-04-16 18:56:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1863,1,3338,'63.166.226.83','inkgrrl','kari@inkgrrl.com','http://www.inkgrrl.com/inkblog.htm','Beautifully done, Joe. I\'m a bad Jew and won\'t be celebrating Pesach anywhere this week, but hag sameach and have a good Pesach - thank you for reminding me what it\'s really about.','2003-04-16 19:35:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1864,1,3335,'209.103.239.3','Fred Boness','fboness@excel.net','','The link is to the New Rules Set Project of Dr. Thomas PM Barnett at the Naval War College. This pre dates 9/11 and the project involved some people at Cantor Fitzgerald who were killed.\r\n\r\nRead The Pentagon\'s New Map. This is the grand strategy for what the U.S. is doing. You will see why the U. S. went from Afghanistan to Iraq. The U.S. is closing the Gap. We are in for a long war and a much different world.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.nwc.navy.mil/newrulesets/','2003-04-16 19:37:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1865,1,3335,'216.194.194.226','Thomas Nephew','thomasn528@prodigy.net','http://pages.prodigy.net/thomasn528/blog/newsrackblog.html','Not to be a spoilsport, but where are the Al Qaeda in the reports you mention? I see Saddam Fedayeen, Al Quds, Republican Guard mentioned, all presumptively Iraqi as far as I know.','2003-04-16 19:51:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1866,1,3331,'4.60.16.17','Cassandra','tavernel@erols.com','','Silly protesters.\r\nWatch Iraqis dance for joy:\r\nNot in your name?','2003-04-16 20:09:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1867,1,3331,'4.60.16.17','Cassandra','tavernel@erols.com','','Poor news anchormen\r\nSo many words to eat...\r\nFeeling full yet?','2003-04-16 20:12:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1868,1,3337,'162.93.253.78','lurker','noydb@secret.com','','Was SDB referring to Diane?','2003-04-16 20:17:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1869,1,3335,'66.245.22.104','PhotoDude','reid@photodude.com','http://www.photodude.com/index.shtml','Well, Thomas, if you\'re right, perhaps the truth is more along these lines: Al Qaeda promised and promoted terror attacks on the US and its interests when we attacked Iraq, and then failed to fire a single bullet. While some worried this war would act as a recruitment drive, in the end, the Arab Street was/is mostly silent, and Al Qaeda has severely lost face in their eyes due to broken promises and apparent impotence.\r\n\r\nAbout 19 months ago, Al-Qaeda was ramming airliners into buildings. Today, to put it in Texas terms ... Big Hat, No Cattle.','2003-04-16 20:44:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1870,1,3314,'64.81.246.251','Rob Keogh','blog@keogh.net','','When I first read this piece I couldn\'t believe that it was being used to bash the Left. CNN is not a mouth piece of the Left nor are it\'s anchors. It frightens me to think how Right you have to be to consider CNN Left.\r\n\r\nIf CNN are Left why did they delete the few paragraphs of Blix\'s report to the UN that didn\'t support Bush\'s pro-war agenda? Why did they amplify the booing of Michael Moore\'s Oscar speech? ','2003-04-16 21:41:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1871,1,3336,'4.60.16.17','Cassandra','tavernel@erols.com','','How about a Hollywood Haiku? There\'s enough material there to last for years:\r\n\r\n*Actor Tim Robbins*\r\nRight-wing plots are all in your head\r\nActually, we\'re just sick of you.\r\n\r\nMr. and Mrs. Sarandon\r\nWhat\'s the sound of a peace sign\r\nWith a single finger?\r\n\r\nOK - I\'ll stop now.','2003-04-16 21:45:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1872,1,3335,'64.223.19.212','John Anderson','teqjack@wowmail.com','','Al Qaeda was not primarily an action group, they were suppliers, planners and financial administrators for a number of terrorist groups - sort of a clearing house. Until they ar reconstituted or replaced a number of groups will have trouble getting anything done. And as we continue to make governments\' funding unavailable, they will continue to have problems. \r\n ','2003-04-16 22:09:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1873,1,3334,'211.74.6.166','Malthusiast','thimblefulofthorns@yahoo.com','http://thimblefulofthorns.blogspot.com/','JK, Very kind of you! Best, M','2003-04-16 22:27:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1874,1,3335,'128.112.108.192','Ray','ray@princeton.edu','http://campuscgi.princeton.edu/~ray/weblog/','In retrospect, it seems the problem was never al Qaeda per se, but what it represented: the ease of catastrophic terrorism and the existence of states and captive populations sympathetic to it. \r\nAmerica would not have been much of a superpower if we couldn\'t take apart an organization of a few thousand fanatics whose idea of a successful operation involved blowing themselves up. \r\n\r\nThe much harder and more dangerous tasks lie ahead of us: draining the swamp that produced these monsters (i.e. the mess in the Mideast, aided and abetted by many states and a wilfully deluded population), and designing a future hardened against even more catastrophic attacks which does not impose large costs on our freedoms and our opportunities. ','2003-04-16 22:32:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1875,1,3334,'64.223.19.212','John Anderson','teqjack@wowmail.com','','Two points: \r\n1. the vaults were unlocked, not broken open. \r\n2. the museum (and some hospital) looting happemed before we even crossed the bridges. \r\n\r\n*LOOTING* \r\nHe does not come right out and say it, but reporter\'s story points out that yes, hospital looting preceded coalition arrival. Also gives lie to Fisk about no response to news of hospital looting - as soon as reported, four Humvees dispatched. - \"I went back to the Palestine and explained the situation at the Al Wiya to the Marine commander in charge, Lieutenant Colonel McCoy, a big strapping man who listened carefully. I told him that there was a British citizen there, a man who had been wounded when the American tank fired on the hotel. He and a junior officer pulled out a military map of Baghdad and I tried to show them where they should go. It seemed difficult to explain, so Sabah and I and a Frenchman working for Première Urgence, an organization that supplies emergency aid to hospitals, led a convoy of four or five Humvees to the hospital.\" \r\n*AND* Slightly older report by same guy, before airport taken \r\n \r\n*NYTimes - Pillagers Strip Iraqi Museum of Its Treasure* \r\nAs reporters returned from the national museum to their hotels beside the Tigris tonight, marines guarding the hotels were caught in a heavy firefight with Iraqis across the river, and the neighborhoods erupted with tank and heavy machine-gun fire. Western television cameramen who went onto the embankment beside the Palestine Hotel to film the battle were pulled from danger by helmeted marines who dragged them down behind concrete parapets and waved to reporters on the hotel\'s upper balconies to get down.','2003-04-16 22:33:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1876,1,3338,'24.221.41.128','David','David@Killough.net','','Regarding plague #9. you said \"For the spiritual darness suffered by the Iraqi people over the last 20 years.\" Do you not think it would be more accurate to say since the dawn of Islam? Granted the entire country is not Muslim, but Iraq is an Islamic state for the most part. I would say that they have been living in spiritual darkness for much longer than the reign of Saddam Hussein. Donald Sensing has a good blog on this titled \"God and Allah\". http://www.donaldsensing.com/2003_04_01_archive.html#200154917 ','2003-04-16 23:56:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1877,1,3338,'131.107.3.78','Fran','fran@northwestnotes.net','http://www.northwestnotes.net','Great metaphor and beautiful writing. Thank you.','2003-04-16 23:59:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1878,1,3335,'12.239.136.132','Joel Mackey','jkmack@spammedout.com','http://www.sp3ctator.blogspot.com','\r\n \r\n What is keeping Americans safe from terrorism in a renewed energy in our military and intelligence communities to this threat. Instead of an Administration who cuts defense spending to the bone, then sucks a little marrow out, we have an administration that will look at the nations defense needs and determine a reasonable outlay for those needs. \r\n\r\n Our Intelligence communities were decimated with political correctness and liberal bleeding heart fantasies of how intelligence should be gathered and acted upon. Now, after the attack, we have renewed focus and energy. \r\n\r\n Why this couldnt have come about after the first WTC attack, or the Terror attack in Saudi Arabia on our military residential buildings, or even after the yemen attack, is for you to ponder, I know who I blame, and my voting in the future will reflect that opinion.\r\n\r\n Clinton believed talking long and loud, and whipping twigs here and there for emphasis. Bush apparantly adheres to the Roosevelt doctrine of speaking softly and carrying a big stick. ','2003-04-17 00:33:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1879,1,3338,'64.81.34.133','Jeff','jps66@yahoo.com','','This is the second people shredder reference I\'ve seen. Is this true? The very idea makes me want to puke, cry and rage. Could someone post a link to a reputable report on it? Thanks. ','2003-04-17 05:49:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1880,1,3333,'12.103.251.203','Sanitation Engineer #6','ignore@b54.net','http://www.b54.net','The spam situation strikes me as being very similar to the Micro$hit virus situation. It\'s far more lucrative to sell \"anti-virus\"...er, \"anti-spam\" software than it is to deal with the actual problem. Paying the Mafia to protect you from the Mafia, in other words.\r\n\r\nI sincerely don\'t think more legislation will accomplish anything--except possibly lining the pockets of some lawyers. The biggest spammers are already located overseas. Tracking them down with the intent to sue will be very difficult and ultimately ineffective, because as long as they have lots of money to spend and lies to tell, there will be places for them to do business.\r\n\r\nWhat will help? One place to start would be the ISPs and email providers, some of whom are either selling their user lists to spammers. I\'d be suspicious of \"free email\" providers in particular.\r\n\r\nThere are already 100% effective solutions that don\'t involve filtering and place minimal extra requirements on the user. I\'ve been mostly spam free (average of one spam a month) for about five years now, and 100% spam free for almost a year. Services such as Sneakemail and MailShell really do work; I\'ve been using something similar for a very long time and with (obviously) good success.\r\n\r\nHow long before the email paradigm changes enough to make spamming difficult if not almost impossible? I don\'t know... but hopefully not too long. It\'s going to be up to the ISPs to start thinking outside their current box.','2003-04-17 07:24:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1881,1,3335,'24.90.251.209','someone','no@one.no','','You\'re still far safer walking around with a turban than a yarmulke. Gee, I wonder why?','2003-04-17 08:00:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1882,1,3329,'24.165.194.138','Ken Barnes','tpgfaq@tpgfaq.org','http://www.tpgfaq.org/','Even though this thread is old now, I find it interesting that Robert Bartley made reference to Thomas Sowell\'s work in a Wall Street Journal editorial this past Monday.','2003-04-17 12:59:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1883,1,3338,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','It\'s completely true, I\'m afraid. Typing \"shredder\" into the search engine here at Winds of Change.NET would get you this link. The reports were compiled and checked by left-wing British Labour MP Ann Clwyd.','2003-04-17 14:53:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1884,1,3316,'204.174.12.17','Mart iko','cheaptax@bcmyhome.com','','This is such spin that the National Post should be embarrassed! Here are the facts: Power Corp owns 67% of Power Corp Financial, which owns 100% of Power Financial Europe, which owns 50% of Parjointco, which owns 54.6% of Pargesa Holding, which owns, among many other things, 3.3% of TotalFinaElf\r\nSee here and here), \r\n \r\nTotalFinaElf has a market cap of $87B (link), so 3.3% is $2.87 B. Backing that out, 54.6% of 50% of 67% of $2.87B is $.525B. The Market Cap of Power Corp is 7.5B, so exposure to TotalFinaElf is less than 10%. And TotalFinaElf\'s exposure to Iraq must be pretty small, since their chart of share price (link) shows no changes related to the success or failure of US war in Iraq (share price has been between 68 and 76 for last 2 years). I dare say that the war in IRAQ will not cost Chretien\'s kids a single penny, and that cheaper oil will make all oil company shareholders - them included - lots more money.\r\n ','2003-04-17 17:52:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1885,1,3335,'172.151.188.236','Dan Hartung','lakefxdan@aol.com','http://www.lakefx.nu/','Thanks, Joel, for bringing such *subtle* partisan analysis to the situation. I\'m sure that will be *completely* helpful.\r\n\r\nI think Dan Darling is right in that Al Qaeda and its affiliates remain a potent force. They can continue to operate indefinitely anywhere their operations remain undiscovered, which is one of the strengths of unconventional warfare. Top-down disruption may only be temporary as independent elements seek other routes for funding and direction. At the same time, it\'s clear they may have used their A team up on 9/11, and many future attacks may be less competently planned, less robustly funded, and ultimately less effective. One one point I disagree: I suspect many, perhaps most, of the 3000 AQ captures are low-level or tangential operatives. Their fates largely serve as an object lesson in the consequences of being a hanger-on, which drives AQ further underground into trusted cells, at a cost to operational flexibility and effectiveness.\r\n\r\nLet\'s face it: Al Qaeda never really developed a defensive capability; they have always relied on safe havens. It\'s the easy refuge of local rebellions: just relocate to the next country over. In the Muslim world this is often a rival rather than a friend of the regime you face. In Afghanistan AQ thought they had a permanent haven, and that if we invaded we would a) face the same fate as the Russians, b) face a general uprising by a sympathetic population. Saddam, incidentally, had the same mistaken faith in the Arab street.\r\n\r\nBut people forget that most successful resistance movements have only done so with outside help, in the form of safe havens, funding, training, weapons, and recruits. Vietnam and Afghanistan both represented effective superpower occupations that were opposed with the support of another superpower. This time, Afghanistan and Iraq resistance, such as it was, had little backing locally or otherwise.\r\n\r\nI don\'t doubt that we\'ll see another 9/11-scale attack someday; it\'s too easy to pull off. (I\'m surprised the only imitators we\'ve seen, though, have been suicides.) But it\'s also become clear that AQ is the paper tiger here, capable of infrequent terror attacks, but incapable of thinking strategically, politically, and badly misjudging even Arab and Muslim culture. Finished? Hardly. But their wad is shot and their rally has failed.\r\n\r\nFred: Thanks for posting that excellent link, which I hadn\'t seen before. I don\'t think it\'s quite as relevant as, say, the neocon strategy documents from the PNAC and its (watered-down) Pentagon security strategy, but it\'s a great delineation of some of the philosophical changes in the offing. May we live in interesting times, indeed.','2003-04-17 18:23:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1886,1,3335,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Dan, I\'m really glad to see you here in our comments section. I\'ve missed your blogging and your thoughts.','2003-04-17 18:52:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1887,1,3341,'206.190.18.32','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','I think the most interesting development of the next 50 years will be the generals of the 2nd and 3rd world\'s armies pumping for the adoption of \"American\" sociopolitical economic culture.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-17 19:15:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1888,1,3338,'68.38.40.106','Bob','bob@bob.com','','You left out the 11th, 12th, and 13th:\r\n\r\n11)US invasion. Munitions include cluster bombs (which will kill and maim for decades) and depleted uranium (which will cause cancer and birth defects for generations. Hospitals are full and without electricity. Basra has not had water in 3 weeks. Disease is starting to run wild all over. \r\n\r\n12)Chaos and ethnic cleansing. The kurds are moving back from the north and forcing Arabs out of their homes and killing many. Any Suni is a fair target in a Shiite neighborhood. Life savings are dissapearing with the looting of banks and devalutation of Iraqi currency. At the moment, residents of Baghdad are not even allowed out of their own houses, inside their own country, at night, with a curfew eerily resembeling some policies in the occupied territories in Israel.\r\n\r\n13)Loss of history. Thousands of years of historical and cultural artifacts and texts gone. Looted. Burned. Destroyed. A tragedy on the level of the burning of the Library of Alexandria. Imagine if the West Wall were destroyed.\r\n\r\nYou can say that all of this is a small price to pay for the Iraqis liberation, but just remember that it is the Iraqi people, and not you, who will be paying the price. Maybe it will work out and a decade from now the Iraqi people will celebrate their liberation over quiet dinners with their loved ones. Or maybe it won\'t and ten years from now Iraq, and perhaps Syria and Iran, will look a lot like the Gaza strip. Or maybe it will devolve into civil war. Or a militant fundamentalist Islamic state.\r\n\r\nAs for Kanan Makiya thanking America, I worry that might be a minority view. Outside of the interim government meeting between 5 and 20 thousand gathered in protest chanting \"No to Saddam, No to USA.\" Some of the allies of both the US and Israel are brutal dictators much like Saddam; will we free them from their plauges? The world is so much more complex than your post would assume. ','2003-04-17 21:11:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1889,1,3335,'68.38.40.106','Bob','bob@bob.com','','Al Queda already got what they wanted out of attacking the US: a war between the west and the arabian peninsula. His goal now is to destabalize the goevernments that he doesn\'t want in power in that region. Notice how Osama didn\'t request attacks against the US in his last message? It is not that Al Queda is weak it is that they have a long term plan which doesn\'t require attacking the US again. We are moving like pieces from a chess board that he is controlling. Osama wanted Saddam gone. Hizbulla will attack occupying forces in Iraq and then the US will attack Syria. Osama wants a bigger war just as much as Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Perle do. US troops occupying a country on the sands of Arabia are like recruitment posters for Al Queda. You can dismiss what has been happening as weakness but I think you might be underestimating our opponent. Al Queda\'s biggest problem now might not be its weakness but could end up being competition from a hundred new Bin Ladens. Try looking at what is happening from his point of view.','2003-04-17 21:34:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1890,1,3115,'207.88.76.143','online casino','jenny_johnson_ca@hotmail.com','http://www.online-casino-expert.com','Why are they even teaching?','2003-04-17 22:17:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1891,1,3342,'141.156.94.23','JAB','JohnBeckwith@yahoo.com','','It\'s served its purpose. Phase it out.\r\n\r\nHope you keep other features up, as long as you have the time and energy, because your site is excellent.','2003-04-18 03:07:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1892,1,3342,'64.81.34.133','Jeff','jps66@yahoo.com','','Keep it. There\'s more to this war than combat, perhaps not as riveting. We will be over there in force for some time to come. Even after most forces leave, its just the beginning. Less and less attention will be paid by the mainstream media, and we need all the information we can get. ','2003-04-18 03:30:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1893,1,3342,'68.38.40.106','Sandy','all@all.com','','Keep it.','2003-04-18 03:59:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1894,1,3342,'68.154.166.107','Boris A.Kupershmidt','maps4u@hotmail.com','','This is a 100 years war, it\'s not likely\r\nto be over soon.\r\nOn burnout problem -- group blogs are the way,\r\nindividual blogs, with very rare exceptions,\r\ncan\'t sustain high quality and attractiveness\r\nfor the reader over time.','2003-04-18 04:28:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1895,1,3336,'12.253.20.38','scott h.','scott_helg@yahoo.com','','Hey Natalie Maines\r\nNo cowboys in Syria\r\nYour audience gone','2003-04-18 04:36:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1896,1,3342,'24.247.144.249','Miguel','miguel@centellas.org','http://www.centellas.org/miguel','I think you should keep them, but do more of the kind where your write the link into a sentence or short graph. It\'s a bit better than Instapundit, and more focused on a set of issues. It\'s also shorter than Command Post, which requires more reading. Your format\'s a good balance between the two extremes. \r\n\r\nYou don\'t have to post them as often if you don\'t want to. I copied your format a few times posting \"news digests\" of my own, but not every day, and only when I couldn\'t think of something \"long\" to write or there were two many threads to pursue at one time.\r\n\r\nNot sure if any of this helps you at all or not.','2003-04-18 05:22:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1897,1,3342,'198.81.26.113','Jan Zambas','skyjoy2@aol.com','','Winds of Change is one of my favorite sites. I think your commentary, links, and coordination of information is well thought out and contributes greatly to clarifying the news in the country and the world. Terrorism is with us for awhile. It goes beyond Iraq (unfortunately) -- Winds can be a good source in filtering out all the news, much of what is either missed or ignored by the print and TV news media. My vote is an emphatic \"yes\" in continuing this great site. ','2003-04-18 05:24:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1898,1,3343,'67.162.129.231','zombyboy','resurrectionsong@yahoo.com','http://resurrectionsong.blog-city.com','I say keep the feature, but pare it down just a bit. Of course, you should keep closing with something lighter (thanks).','2003-04-18 06:25:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1899,1,3342,'68.52.133.112','George Durham','Durham4@comcast.net','','Keep it I say, I enjoy the analysis, and as a previous poster stated, this issue is just beginning, not ending. KEEP IT PLEASE!','2003-04-18 06:39:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1900,1,3342,'129.7.228.99','refugee','refugee@svec.uh.edu','','If I have to choose...?\r\n\r\nCommentary, please. That\'s uniquely yours; other sites do quick linkage just fine.\r\n\r\nWinds of War is great, and I strongly recommend that you keep the briefing section, but yeah, I can see that the daily slog to find those links could be a burden. Winds of Change is too valuable a resource to lose to burnout. Save WoW for when things get hot.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-18 07:39:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1901,1,3342,'12.225.121.21','Vincent','vincent@plastic.com','','Like someone else said: phase it out. There\'s no need for it anymore, and I\'d certainly keep coming back without it.\r\n\r\nYou want honesty though? Get a better color scheme!! :) Or am I the only one for whom black text on white background on a computer monitor is a sure-fire way for one\'s eyes to glaze over? :)\r\n\r\nBut yes. Winds of War was a neat and useful feature when it was needed (and after the Agonist\'s little scandal, I tried to stay away from there), but it\'s served its purpose. Time to gracefully retire it. \r\n\r\nOr maybe just give it new monicker (Winds of Peace?) to keep track of developments during the reconstruction...\r\n\r\nThat\'s my (rambling) two cents.','2003-04-18 07:46:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1902,1,3342,'66.105.229.18','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','PLEASE no light on dark text - I rarely read blogs with that color scheme - too hard to read.\r\n\r\nJoe, anything you guys do is fine by me - I\'ve been reading WOC for about a year now.','2003-04-18 08:52:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1903,1,3342,'216.26.2.29','Michael J. Totten','michaeltotten001@yahoo.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','Joe,\r\n\r\nI enjoy your links, especially when you link me. But I like your own essays the best, and that is what I hope to find when I visit.','2003-04-18 09:16:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1904,1,3342,'65.128.20.81','Bob','questmuzz9@aol.com','','you guys do whatever you want and I\'m going to read it','2003-04-18 10:19:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1905,1,3342,'67.30.180.86','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','Your linkage is most often quite different, so it is still needed. MB likes the idea of \'Winds of Peace\'. \r\n\r\nAs to the color scheme, see what\'s the very lightest shade of grey you could put behind the black text; that is most effective for cutting down the \'flare effect\' that pure white induces in the visual processing center of the brain. \r\n','2003-04-18 12:35:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1906,1,3346,'208.187.143.167','Charles Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','','Chirac may be to the right of Kissinger, but he is another example of the American Left getting bed with whomever can move their agenda forward. There was nothing \"left\" about Hitler either, but after he signed the Nazi-Soviet Pact in 1939 the American Left, under the direction of CPUSA, did everything to encourage American nuetrality. Only when Hitler invaded the Soviet Union two years later was it ok for the Left to hate him again.','2003-04-18 15:22:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1907,1,3342,'4.47.9.41','Shirley Klock','we2dogs@mindspring.com','','I have just recently found this site. I like it just the way it is. I don\'t have a lot of pc experience, so I do not know how much work is involved in keeping the format going. But, I like what you have now.\r\nReally liked the piece on the 10 plagues of Iraq.\r\n\r\nMay the Lord renew your strength and give you rest in Him.','2003-04-18 15:44:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1908,1,3346,'207.168.128.95','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','The U.N. may be in it\'s death throes, no one can agree on anything, everyone is looking to \"get even\" for hurts, real or perceived. Getting anything done in conjunction with the U.N. would be like having to get your ex wife to approve everything you want to do after your divorce.','2003-04-18 16:07:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1909,1,3342,'12.111.129.60','Oceanguy','oceanguy_fl@yahoo.com','http://oceanguy.blogspot.com','It doesn\'t mean much to me.... I\'d rather see the original writing and link to something I won\'t find elsewhere...\r\nI enjoy the more original content!\r\n\r\nHag Sameach\r\n','2003-04-18 16:27:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1910,1,3342,'65.80.124.132','Barbara','goode_p@bellsouth.net','http://your site','I think this site is not \"fair and balanced\"','2003-04-18 17:06:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1911,1,3342,'12.129.7.100','TMS','biglost@hotmail.com','','The war helped me discover the blogosphere, but I\'ll keep coming back even though the fighting has subsided. I\'ve tapped into a resource I never knew existed, and it\'s an invaluable one for me now. It\'s your \"slant\" I keep coming back for, regardless of the content format. I also get the WSJ\'s \"Opinion Journal: Best of the Web\" daily email, which is very similar to \"Winds of War\". I enjoy both. You certainly provide interesting links I don\'t see anywhere else. I\'ll come back regardless. If something strikes your fancy, share it, but don\'t feel the need to sustain the \"Winds of War\" on a dialy basis if the content isn\'t out there. ','2003-04-18 17:15:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1912,1,3346,'205.188.209.8','barry','apache7tears@aol.com','','The UN and EU just know something we do not, these wogs are not capable of having a democratic form of government, they are happy as a pig in shit just the way they are, they love being miserable, they love being dominated by Tyrants.\r\nall they want is to die for allah (when the right time comes and not sooner) but until then it\'s easier to blame anyone and everyone for all their failings.\r\nI hate to say it but this was a waste of time.\r\n5 years from now we will be back to the same old Mullah and ayatolla in charge routine.\r\nthe only solution is the final solution and America won\'t use that. ','2003-04-18 17:21:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1913,1,3342,'172.148.93.75','Ivan','lester_ivan@hotmail.com','','Keep it. The war is not over. It will not be over in our lifetimes. In Iraq, the war will soon move into the Occupation phase, but plenty will be going on there which we need to know about and which the media will utterly ignore.\r\n\r\nBut the war is bigger than Iraq. It is a big as the whole wide world. What have our special operations forces been up to lately in the Phillipines? Just for example.\r\n\r\nSo let the focus of the feature drift away from Iraq, link less frequently, put less work into it when things seem (relatively) quiet, but keep the feature alive.\r\n\r\nYour balance of link and commentary is exactly right. \r\n\r\nYou have a great blog here. Whether you keep the feature or not I\'ll keep reading.\r\n\r\nPeace in our grandchildren\'s time.\r\n\r\nIvan\r\n','2003-04-18 17:31:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1914,1,3342,'206.66.36.178','Tim','blog03@pacificafund.com','http://www.pacificafund.com/blog','I like the feature, for its selectivity. I can get a raw dump at Commandpost. The (visible) pace of events will decelerate again now, so there will naturally be less volume, and less need to post every day. Ivan\'s right, the mass media will lose their focus, they are already moving on to the latest bleat. Blogs can and should counterbalance that lack of staying power.','2003-04-18 17:48:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1915,1,3342,'65.101.151.46','Insufficiently Sensitive','hankbradley@uswest.net','','The efforts that are invested in Winds of War are greatly appreciated. Other bloggers do shed a lot of light, but this site has quality and would be missed. Many thanks for your work to date.','2003-04-18 18:13:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1916,1,3342,'131.215.183.104','Erich Schwarz','emsch@its.caltech.edu','','I don\'t know whether \"Winds of War\" itself is something you need (for now, sigh) but it\'d be really interesting to have your site keep following the issue of WMD in Iraq. I think coverage of that issue has been pretty poor on both sides; the Right wants to forget that we were supposed to be looking for them, and the Left wants to claim ideological victory (i.e., since we haven\'t found them in a week, clearly they were never there!). Real coverage of this by actual adults would be a Good Thing.\r\n\r\nGenerally the site rocks; keep up the good work!','2003-04-18 18:19:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1917,1,3342,'140.180.135.3','Ray','ray@princeton.edu','http://campuscgi.princeton.edu/~ray/weblog/','I\'m greedy enough to want Joe to write more analysis pieces, and to keep up the linking, both. But if it comes down to a matter of time, I\'d take the analysis pieces. ','2003-04-18 19:19:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1918,1,3342,'171.161.160.10','Jeff Medcalf','medcalf@caerdroia.org','http://www.caerdroia.org/blog/','I\'m doubting 100 years, but this war will certainly go for a generation. The Iraqi campaign was just a short part of that. I think that the Winds of War fosters a kind of general discussion that is not present elsewhere, and the comments to these posts are a very valuable part of this blog. That said, with the current campaign essentially over, perhaps you could take it to a once-a-week, rather than once-a-day, post. At least until the next major campaign begins to heat up.\r\n\r\n-jeff','2003-04-18 20:01:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1919,1,3342,'206.222.52.18','Jeff Brokaw','jeff@nothanks.net','http://jeffbrokaw.net/weblog/','I like it - but realistically it probably is time to deep six it as a daily feature, or scale it way back to 3-5 links instead of the 10 or more you were doing, or just do it MWF, or whatever. ','2003-04-18 20:09:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103823,1,9802,'71.231.123.210','alphie','gmplayer@hotmail.com','http://alphavictim.blogspot.com/','Michael,\r\n\r\nDo you consider Eli Khoury\'s opinions on Lebanese politics unbiased?','2007-10-07 10:30:32','2007-10-07 02:30:32',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103824,1,9801,'72.183.109.82','Beard','the_beard7@yahoo.com','','bq. _Pew data on Party Affiliation._\r\n\r\nbq. _I wouldn\'t use Brad\'s term \"overwhelming\" to characterize it. A majority of single Americans are Democrats, and a majority of married Americans are Republicans, with a stronger Republican majority among married couples with children._ [Glen Wishard, #72]\r\n\r\nI really appreciate the pointer to the data. This kind of thing helps a lot in having a substantive discussion, as opposed to just shouting back and forth.\r\n\r\nAnd you are right: the majorities are there, but they are not \"overwhelming\". In fact, the report you point to is based on 2003 data, and much of it focuses on the changes over the 1997-2003 time period. It would be very interesting to see what changes have taken place between 2003 and 2007, since the country has clearly moved towards the Democratic Party during that time.\r\n\r\nObviously, I am partisan, but I would attribute this shift, in part, to people realizing that the Bush-Cheney administration does not embody the kind of conservative values, particularly fiscal responsibility, that motivated them to vote Republican. \r\n\r\n','2007-10-07 14:23:01','2007-10-07 06:23:01',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1921,1,3346,'24.247.117.35','Miguel','miguel@centellas.org','http://www.centellas.org/miguel','Chirac to the right of Kissinger? Of course. At least Kissinger was a liberal (in the philosophical sense of the word). Chirac is a straightforward nationalist. He is, after all, a Gaullist. And he won his election by beating Le Pen (a neo-Fascist). So no surprises here. Morality for Chirac is whatever strengthens the \"glory\" of France. No surprise also that Villepin\'s greatest hero is Napoleon (who\'s not even French, btw) and is fond of quoting: \"Victory or defeat, but glory either way.\"\r\n\r\nAh, Chirac! Camus, Voltaire, de Tocquevillie, Hugo, and so many others are rolling in their graves.','2003-04-18 21:08:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1922,1,3342,'67.162.128.202','zombyboy','resurrectionsong@yahoo.com','http://resurrectionsong.blog-city.com','More from me:\r\n\r\nYou should keep the feature. Judging from the number of click-throughs I\'m getting from a little tiny link, there must be quite a few people reading it.','2003-04-18 21:16:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1923,1,3344,'12.141.177.20','Daniel','reasonofvoice@att.net','http://reasonofvoice.blogspot.com','If this guy had a ripping WMD program, how many people would that employ? And out of those few thousand, wouldn\'t ONE of them have decided to tell the Americans to \'look over here\' ??','2003-04-18 21:32:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1924,1,3346,'66.69.0.109','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','>....these wogs are not capable of having a \r\n>democratic form of government, they are happy \r\n>as a pig in shit just the way they are, they \r\n>love being miserable, they love being dominated \r\n>by Tyrants.\r\n\r\nThat does seem to sum of the Left/Far Right agreement on Iraq.\r\n\r\nAnd they both are just as bigoted and racist.\r\n\r\nLiberty and Democracy is for everyone. It is a matter of building the civic institutions in the society for the graft to take. This will take time.\r\n\r\nLasting democracy in Germany and Japan came at the barrel of a gun. Such will be the case with Iraq as well.\r\n','2003-04-19 00:05:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1925,1,3346,'12.47.68.24','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Geez Louize, Barry, have you even conversed with anyone from this area? Mullahs and Ayatollas had better watch their keesters or they will be the next Saddam. The youth in this area are free thinkers and they aren\'t going to settle for the same old garbage for long. The people you talk about are the old guard, they are getting older, and fewer. Nice that you keep an open mind and all though.','2003-04-19 01:53:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1926,1,3344,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net/','(Trying... can\'t... resist...) Daniel, we need to give the inspections more time to work. The consequences are grave, and rushing into conclusions is the very antithesis of the sophisticated approach we need for dealing with this issue in a context of multilateralism among the various internal players in Iraq.','2003-04-19 04:02:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1927,1,3347,'129.100.154.131','Patrick Brown','brown5@uwo.ca','','AL - I\'m a regular reader, and I would like to engage with you on this topic, but I had some trouble understanding your post. The only thing I really understood was the third paragraph, and the distinction between tame and wicked problems - which sounds rather like the distinction cognitive psychologists make between well-defined and ill-defined problems (see, for example, the work of Herbert Simon on this).\r\n\r\nIs the difference between political philosophy and political theory the same as the difference between high-concept and the opposite (those undpredictable-seeming stories)?\r\n\r\nPolitics is the art of the possible, and the reason it is an art is because figuring out what is possible is non-trivial, as George Bush and Jacques Chirac have recently demonstrated. But is that aphorism part of political philosophy, political theory, or neither?\r\n\r\nSorry to be so dense on this issue. I have no background in PoliSci other than one first year course I slept through (because it dwelt on minutiae of the Canadian constitution, one of the great soporifics known to humanity). But I may be able to earn my keep by providing the perspective of a cognitive psychologist interested in issues such as decision-making, problem-solving, and creativity.','2003-04-19 04:12:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1928,1,3347,'4.61.2.117','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Well, briefly, \'theory\' and \'philosophy\' are defined academic subspecialties of what is typically called \'political science\'.\r\n\r\nEach claims a certain group of writers and thinkers...there is some overlap.\r\n\r\nThe philosophers are more enamored of formally-expressed Big Ideas, which the theorists are more into historically grounded explanations...\r\n \r\nRight now there is a lot of discussion about John Rawls, a Harvard political philosopher who recently died. I didn\'t much care for Rawls\' work, and part of what I want to do is articulate why.\r\n\r\nI\'m thinking that the reason (why I don\'t like his work) is also a good lead-in to a discussion of this \'4th Generation politics\' metaphor Joe and I keep using, which I\'m trying to articulate and which I think may actually be something kind of new.\r\n\r\nHow\'s that for a bit of clarification?\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-04-19 05:54:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1929,1,3338,'4.60.23.78','Samuel Tai','taiss@gte.net','','Bob,\r\n\r\nwhat would have done? Left the Iraqis to Saddam\'s tender mercies? Left them to be rescued by the appeasers?\r\n\r\nYes, there are difficulties. But consider the lives being lost now, and compare them to the number that would have been lost had Saddam remained in power. That, sir, in the real world, is the sole objective measure of whether we did the right thing or not.\r\n\r\nAs to each of your points:\r\n11) US weaponry. Yes, innocents were killed, maimed, and burnt. I do not deny it. I do deny that the number so killed and injured is vastly less than the number that were injured and killed in every torture chamber of every city and town over the last 12 years. I do deny that the number is vastly less than at Halabja. I do deny the number is vastly less than all the battle casualties suffered in the Iran-Iraq war. We have done our utmost, within the limits of the available technology and the fog of war, to avoid hitting innocents.\r\n\r\nFurthermore, we have also done our utmost to avoid damaging hospitals, water plants, electrical utilities, etc. It is more likely the lack of water, power, etc., is due to Saddam\'s regime not maintaining them even though it had much wealth.\r\n\r\n12) Chaos and ethnic cleansing. Unfortunately, this is par for the course as the various factions settle scores. Would you have us brutally put these down?\r\n\r\n13) Loss of history. You are not the first to blame the US Army for not protecting antiquities. First things first! Wasting combat power to protect antiquities (which are reported to have been appropriated by smugglers, not looters) just prolongs the end of armed conflict. In a war, the proper use of forces is to destroy all enemy forces as quickly as possible.\r\n\r\nI agree with you the Iraqis alone can determine their future. Faced with a choice between Kanan Makiya\'s optimism and your cynical nihilism, the Iraqis would do better to embrace hope.\r\n\r\nSir, just because the world is complex does not justify inaction in all cases. Why don\'t you state your hidden thesis? The US has vast power, unparalleled in history. Power corrupts absolutely, in time. Therefore, the US (and by extension its motives and actions) is corrupt in all it does. Anything that can blunt the power of the US is then a priori good.\r\n\r\nThe US is not Washington. The US is not corporate America. The US is me, the individual citizen. I, and my fellow citizens, are the force behind Washington. We determine which corporations live or die in the marketplace. We are the ones who have chosen this course of action, because we will not cower in fear. We refuse to wait behind ramparts for the next blow to fall. The best defence is a good offence. If you believe the polls, 3 out of 4 US citizens agrees with this position.\r\n\r\nI reject your categorization of me and my fellow citizens as corrupt. I reject your sophistry. I reject your shallow intellectual arguments for passivity.\r\n\r\nWe did not ask for war. The enemy has warred against us since 1978, when Khomeini took the US embassy hostage. We have had enough.','2003-04-19 06:18:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1930,1,3344,'209.248.81.246','Bloodthirsty Warmonger','hammerz@hotmail.com','','Let\'s say you\'re a dictator intent on having weapons of mass destruction, can\'t account for them all, and are crafty enough to deceive the inspectors with shell games before kicking them out altogether. This pattern of lies and deception calls for a military solution, and that\'s exactly what we did to Saddam Hussein.','2003-04-19 07:12:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1931,1,3342,'65.164.207.52','WildMonk','wildmonk@wildmonk.net','http://wildmonk.net','First of all - be pragmatic. *Can* you keep it without suffering burnout? I read Winds of Change mostly for your commentary. The links are nice because they generally go to bloggers who have something interesting and relevant to say but who are not simply regurgitating the news. \r\n\r\nThe links will be missed but if the greater cost is to have the blog go down in a few months out of burn-out, I\'d say to stop the feature.\r\n\r\nAnyway, it is not as if you won\'t still be providing good links...\r\n','2003-04-19 11:40:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1932,1,3347,'208.187.143.142','Charles Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','','A.L. Over the past decade my politics have moved rightward over the question of integrity. I hope to stay with you on this thread because I discern that you are one of the few liberals I know who has integrity, who wants to deal head on with wicked problems. Most liberals I talk with seem to hope all problems will remain tame. I have not read Rawls so I will probably remain on the sidelines and just read. So, continue.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-19 14:07:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1933,1,3342,'66.32.88.26','Alpha Wolf','wolf1@laughingwolf.net','http://laughingwolf.net','I vote to keep it, even if it is not done every day. This is a long war and Iraq is only one facet. The links provide access to important information that would otherwise be hard to find. Other than that, all I can say is keep up the great work! ','2003-04-19 14:09:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1934,1,3342,'66.129.135.82','xavier','buscaraons@netscape.net','http://www.buscaraons.blogspot.com','Joe:\r\nKeep it an an occasional series. As the need arises you can put the comments, links under the rubric\r\n\r\nxavier','2003-04-19 15:41:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1935,1,3348,'80.225.78.38','Tora','12@hotmail.com','http://islam4real.blogspot.com','wow-that\'s a lot of money.','2003-04-19 16:43:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1936,1,3348,'63.214.77.194','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','In which case, then, the refusal of the French, Russians, and the House of Saud to agree to lifting sanctions violates the \"It\'s for the Children?\" meme! How dare they!!! \r\n','2003-04-19 17:19:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1937,1,3346,'63.214.77.194','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','Does the name \'Napoleon\' ring a bell with anyone?! More and more, Chirac reminds MB of that bygone era. \r\n','2003-04-19 17:25:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1938,1,3348,'80.225.98.69','Nixon McVicar','nickslater@tiscali.co.uk','','Sanctions: I have wondered recently how much support has been given to the continuance of UN sanctions against Iraq by Russia, France, China etc; quite a lot it would appear. Also, the volume of nasty weapons sold to Saddam by Russia and France over tewnty years to 1991 seems quite impressive... they now insist on a hand in operating the new regime, as oponents to the USA, sorry \'Evil Empire\'. It all seems more about the politics of envy than ethics. Finally - why did Pilger et al presume the anti South Afica sanctions of the 1980s to be imperative, whereas Iraq sanctions evil ?','2003-04-19 19:06:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1939,1,3348,'207.168.128.36','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','The story didn\'t say it, but am I to assume that those were U.S. dollars, and genuine, not counterfit? Lets see, the soldiers don\'t get to keep souvineers, do they? I\'d like to know who they think that belonged to.','2003-04-19 19:11:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1940,1,3348,'68.69.25.53','Howard Veit','oracle2@adelphia.net','http://oraculations.blogspot.com','Re; accusations of children dying because of sanctions.\r\nI think we all ought to recognize that the Left is not making serious charges. Their intention is to \"throw enough shit on the wall to see what sticks\". And then take what sticks and run with it. They hate America. They hate capitalism. They mean to destroy us in whatever way they can.\r\n\r\nIn the bad old days of the cold war the Soviet was brilliant in doing Hollywood style blitz pieces almost every day about how bad we were in various places until something caught hold at the NYT or CBS and then they would blitz the entire world with the lie.\r\n\r\nNothing has changed. Stop taking their charges as if they are misguided people. They know the charges are false when they make them. It is we who are sucker enough to \"debate a false premise\" who make the mistake of honoring liars. It\'s like look at the war prognostications. Not one truth in the thousand or so, but they aren\'t bothered. They will keep on lying because that is what they do.','2003-04-19 22:03:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1941,1,3342,'216.99.197.137','jeanne a e devoto','jaed@jaedworks.com','http://bittersanity.blogspot.com','Make it weekly, perhaps, if scaling back to weekly will avoid burnout. Like many of those above, I value both WoW and the analysis pieces, but if I could have only one, I\'d rather the analysis.','2003-04-20 00:12:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1942,1,2561,'66.82.9.32','David Mitchal','awake1@mohaveaz.com','','Where can I get a 36 volt Alternator?????\r\nThanks,\r\nDavid Mitchal','2003-04-20 03:24:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1943,1,3322,'209.248.83.83','Old Patriot','mweather@codenet.net','','As a former cadet and an retired NCO, the entire situation has left a bad taste in my mouth. The entire military chain of command is based on trust. Violating the rights of another human being, which is what rape is, regardless of all the other fancy words, is a violation of trust. When anyone misuses a position of power to subvert the rights of a subordinate, that should automatically remove that individual from any position of trust, including serving as an officer in any branch of our military. \r\n\r\nBeing a member of any military service is both a privilege and an honor. Those who misuse that privilege should be expelled. Those who have committed criminal acts should also be tried, and if convicted, encarcerated for the maximum period allowed. ','2003-04-20 03:54:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1944,1,3347,'129.100.99.96','Patrick Brown','brown5@uwo.ca','','AL - OK. I will read about John Rawls and return. What little I know of Rawls\' work I don\'t care for. It doesn\'t seem to make much contact with reality, in the sense that it seems to me both to underestimate and overestimate humans at the same time.\r\n\r\nI will also check the archives to learn more about this 4th gen stuff. Sounds intriguing.\r\n\r\nCheers,\r\n\r\nPatrick','2003-04-20 04:44:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1945,1,3348,'64.28.56.229','Michael Lonie','loniem@dnc.net','','Kudos to those sergeants who, faced with untold wealth, did the honorable thing and turned it in. Honorable mention to their superiors who did not cover up the find and embezzle the money.\r\n\r\nIf genuine this is money belonging to the Iraq state, to be used on behalf of the Iraqis by whatever government succeeds the former Ba\'athist tyranny. If counterfeit, it looks like a weapon to be used against the US by Saddam and his pals.','2003-04-20 05:04:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1946,1,3343,'64.28.56.229','Michael Lonie','loniem@dnc.net','','Chuck,\r\nThe Iraq campaign is over but the War on Terror continues. We now have an army, and will soon have a larger one, in the central position between three states which are the primary enablers of Islamist terror throughout the world. These are Iran, Syria, and the Wahhabi Entity. Aside from relieving some of the troops presently in theater the reinforcements are ideally equipped to scare the hell out of all three. \r\n\r\nWith the threat of military force present, and covert as well as overt support for the Iranian democrats, we may be able to topple the Ayatollahs without another campaign. Syria is blathering about making Iraq another Lebanon, which would be an act of war against us. These divisions could take out Syria in that case. And the oil tick Princes of the Wahhabi Entity must be nervous about whether or not we intend to take them out too (I vote yes). What we need to do is deprive the terror groups of the funding and support that comes from the oil ticks. If the Wahhabi Entity does not cut such support off we could discover that the oppressed Shi\'a people of the Eastern Province have a yearning for independence, which I suspect they do. By freeing them from Wahhabi oppression we could deprive the Wahhabis of their oil. That would take the oil money away from the terrorists.\r\n\r\nSo you see, there is still much for soldiers to do there, even aside from keeping the peace in Iraq. We may be able to accomplish much of this without further military campaigning, but using the threat of force to coerce the region\'s governments into accepting our conditions or being overthrown by local people who want a decent government, in a region hitherto governed almost exclusively by tyrants. ','2003-04-20 05:30:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1947,1,3356,'65.59.70.203','Zogby Blog','k_zogby@hotmail.com','http://zogby.blogspot.com','Joe,\r\nI don\'t think there will be much explaining, at least in public, by the Germans, French, Russians, or anyone else. The money was just too large, the opportunity, too irristable, the post-modernist values prevent \"Old Europe\" from asking any embarrisng questions. Shhh, if no one says anything, the tree didn\'t fall.','2003-04-20 05:33:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1948,1,3342,'61.186.105.161','J Farr','jfarreast@hotmail.com','','I would like to see some intelligent pieces done on what it will take to bring a lasting peace in the world and about restructuring the United Nations rather than throwing it out all together. I don\'t know how to search beyond google (give me a break, I am a grandmother of 10 who is teaching English in central China) but have found some interesting reading on peace and recommendations for restructuring the United Nations. These links are a lot of reading but well worth it for me.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.bic-un.bahai.org/95-1001.htm\r\n\r\nhttp://bahai-library.org/published.uhj/world.peace.html\r\n\r\n','2003-04-20 07:21:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1949,1,3256,'213.42.1.171','hiro bachani','hirorajni@usa.net','http://www.sufijalalani.com','We request all our sufi brethren to visit our website- www.sufijalani.com and www.sufisattari.com for more information on an important URS being held in honour of a great sufi saint on the Qadiri path- regards-','2003-04-20 10:51:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1950,1,3256,'213.42.1.171','hiro bachani','hirorajni@usa.net','http://www.sufijalalani.com','dear sirs in my earlier post please correct our website to www.sufijalalani.com and not mentioned earlier - sorry for the inconvenience - regards- ','2003-04-20 10:53:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(106844,1,9933,'83.59.207.247','J Aguilar','joea321@yahoo.com','','The most intelligent thing to do is to locate your factories around the world to avoid such problems. However, defence industry is one of the few very profitable industries in Germany and France, which helps to underpin the Socialist economy there. In some way, it plays in those countries the same role of oil in Venezuela.','2007-12-11 08:52:29','2007-12-11 00:52:29',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1952,1,3183,'67.8.176.100','Charles Nelson','cnelson15@cfl.rr.com','','If I lived in Poland, Slovakia, Lithuania or any of the other eastern self-governing countries, I would be scared when Hitler’s Children and the appeaser France start talking with Russia about an alliance. Remember what happened in 1920’s and 1930’s when the parents of Hitler accepted a dictator and France appeased. \r\nNow Germany has again supporting a dictator in Sadam and his weapons of mass killing. It is essential that the world understand that France and Germany more than likely provided Sadam with his weapons capability, new German helicopters have been found, these gun ships are, I feel, just the tip of the iceberg. Further findings will embarrass the “Axes of Shame”. In addition France and Germany have over 100 Billion Dollars in oil and other contracts with Sadam – Just another reason to support and appease the dictator and try to undermine the United States. Does Vichy ring a bell? One of France’s largest battles in WW II was against the United States in North Africa, are they again showing their support for evil? According to reports France is now helping Syria provide false papers to Iraqi leaders so they may escape. Russia, as reported in newspapers, was providing classified information to Sadam and also provided a list of assassins living in the west for his use. It is time to void NATO and start another alliance with the free peoples of Europe who do not support Germany and the cowards in France.\r\nGermany, France and Russia do not want the truth revealed. They have helped Sadam and as Iraq is liberated evidence will point to Germany, Russia and France as the “Axes of Shame”. \r\n','2003-04-20 13:10:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1953,1,3357,'24.170.184.176','Andrea Harris','webmistress@spleenville.com','http://spleenville.com/','From what I\'ve been reading, a lot of Americans of non-Middle-Eastern dissent think the same way. It makes people feel better to believe the worst, especially when it comes to the doings of those you believe have power over your life, such as the government. It\'s easier for some people to deal with their own inability to change circumstances themselves by believing that there are sinister plans behind every event. The fact that random chance is the most powerful force in the universe, not a group of Old White Men smoking in a darkened room somewhere (or a cabal of Zionists, or a gathering of reptiles from outer space) is more frightening to some people. The idea that people in positions of power, like politicians and generals, actually have restrictions on their power and might not be able to control their own circumstances all that much, strikes some people as incomprehensible, because why would anyone want to get into a position of power only to be powerless?','2003-04-20 17:04:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1954,1,3357,'24.197.150.77','Ben Zipperer','benzipperer@diligenze.com','http://www.diligenze.com','It is sad. However, you can run into people with similar dementia in the US, and it does not follow that US society is in trouble. So, I remain optimistic about the region because I think people everywhere have the same positive potential that we see expressed in free, pluralistic societies. They just need a little help (from US).','2003-04-20 17:06:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1955,1,3357,'207.212.109.245','Mike','mikhalodalaigh@yahoo.com','','I agree with Ben. Go to any major college campus and you will find a probable majority of \"westernized, intelligent and well educated\" citizens holding the same or similar views.','2003-04-20 17:34:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1956,1,3034,'80.200.75.59','Phil','phil@nc.com','','First, I\'m french... My english is not so good, but I\'m gonna make some efforts to write in your language.\r\n\r\nHere\'s my profile :\r\n\r\n- I hate 15% of french people who voted for a nazi b*stard last year.\r\n\r\n- I don\'t want to think an individual is formated according to the country he live in. Many french men and women are bloody stupid and so is a part of american people. If you think someone is a crap because he\'s american, french, iraqi, muslim, christian or jew, then you\'re just a f*ckin\' facist.\r\n\r\n- Some want to punish french people boycotting french products. I personally boycott McDonald\'s, Esso, Nike, Danone... not because they\'re french or american, but just because I won\'t give a buck to leading companies that wish to rule the world. Boycott\'s not a problem to me, so do it, but chose products to boycott. I\'ll personally keep promoting Rage Against The Machine, AdBusters magazine and Fight Club the movie ;)\r\n\r\n- A lot of you and us are sheeps. You are not your government, not a Pepsi’s leader... G.W. Bush and J.Chirac aren’t gods. They can declare war, but will never fight near the frontline, so they don’t care about guilty or innocent dead people killed ‘cause of their decisions.\r\n\r\n- It made me sick to see twin towers collapsed. It made me sick to see iraqi children died ‘cause of adults’ games. It made me sick to see pictures of my grand father coming back from a concentration camp. It makes me sick to see people suffering ‘cause the élite turns out political status to their own advantage .\r\n\r\nThis is what I am not ‘cause I’m french but because I’m who I am : an individual from the human beings.\r\n','2003-04-20 18:01:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1957,1,3357,'129.44.33.154','Douglas','gillison@earthlink.net','','You dinner guest was most likely not an Arab.','2003-04-20 18:22:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1958,1,3357,'129.44.33.154','Douglas','gillison@earthlink.net','','Your dinner guest was most likely not an Arab.','2003-04-20 18:22:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1959,1,3357,'65.27.184.129','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com/','Very astute observation, Douglas, considering the guy is described as Iranian.\r\n','2003-04-20 19:22:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1960,1,3357,'67.24.253.252','Jim Watkins','james_g_watkins@hotmail.com','','The goal here is to change minds. If the Arabs believed that the US is a the solution to their problems, they would have changed their governments already. \r\n\r\nWhen someone doesn\'t trust you and persists in behavior that is directed at hurting you. (Think of a small child kicking a parent.) The way to to act is to restrain the person as gently as feasible and do what you need to in the way that you should. \r\n\r\nSooner or later the the child will trust you. The alternatives are to let the child throw stuff at you, to lock the child up, or to shoot the kid.','2003-04-20 19:51:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1961,1,3357,'66.57.16.248','enloop','enloop@yahoo.com','','Ask a Palestinian what he thinks about \'Arafat\'s political acumen, his corruption, and his failure to secure a Palestinian homeland, and you\'re almost certain to hear invective about \'Arafat\'s stupidity, morality, lack of courage, and, perhaps, his general toadiness towards the U.S. and Israel.\r\n\r\nAsk the same person why Palestinians don\'t abandon \'Arafat for a more effective leader, and you\'re almost certain to hear protests that \'Arafat is owed their allegiance because he, and only he, has sustained their revolution, and, ultimately, because he is simply \" the leader\".\r\n\r\nMove south several hundred miles into any number of sub-Saharan African countries and you can repeat the exercise by asking about the character who happens to be running the country: Yes, he\'s studid, corrupt, venal and ineffecive, but he is our leader and we own him our loyalty.\r\n\r\nThis widespread, ultimately tribal, notion that leaders are different from the people they lead, that they are owed loyalty due only to their position and regardless of any other disqualifying attributes, is, of course, the same notion that allowed Europeans to get away with the sham of divine monarchy for so long: Leaders are annointed, everyone else is destined to be a mere subject. \r\n\r\nThe crucial thing that subjects lose is the ability to act wih free will in a political environment. Society becomes structured to thwart any effort by a subject to influence, or even think about, the political environment in which he exists.\r\n\r\nHow, then, is a subject to explain the obvious failures of the \"leaders\"? It can\'t be the fault of the subjects, because they have no political power or influence, And, it can\'t be the fault of the leaders, because that would break the chains of obligation that bind society together,\r\n\r\nSo, what\'s left is the vast, unseen, behind-the-scenes conspiracy of the all-powerful who actually pull the world\'s strings. If my leaders is corrupt, these are the people who have corrupted him. If my leader makes bad decisions, it is because this conspiracy has bribed or threatened him. If my leader lies to me, it is because this conspiracy will reward him for the lie.\r\n\r\nThis is an idea that is almost impossible to refute, because the refutation requires proving the nonexistence of a conspiracy that...well, doesn\'t exist. Couple that with the fact that corruption is a fact of life in Africa and the Middle East (try to get a new landline telephone most places), and you quickly hit a stone wall.\r\n\r\nThe only way to counter this leader-subject thing is to start at the bottom and build grass root democratic structures that begin to give ordinary people the ability to make political decisions that influence their lives. Once people believe that they can influence what happens in their village, or in their neighborhood, they\'ll begin to see themselves as citizens, not subejcts. \r\n\r\nBut, if you start at the top and conjure up a grand new parliament to be filled by elected representatives, all you\'ll have done, from the perspective of the subjects, is create another building filled with toadies of the great conspiracy. ','2003-04-20 20:21:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1962,1,3357,'208.223.218.47','Jeremy','jer@connectria.com','','I\'m curious as to where you heard the 5000 figure. Even that Marc Herold wannabe site was only around 2000.','2003-04-20 21:17:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1963,1,3357,'213.29.60.159','sadjad','splendor1982@yahoo.com','http://light.blogsky.com','At first i\'m sorry for my poor English, But it\'s required to remember that Iranians are different from other Middle estern nations, becuase thire government have been ellected with democratic ways and iranians can freely choose their government. And i think it\'s really clear that they want this kind of government, otherwise they choose another method of government. ','2003-04-20 23:24:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1964,1,3356,'216.250.33.44','Ralph','rtacoma@allwest.net','',' I\'d not get too excited about this right now. The data is too sparse. While it is no more proven than \"treachery,\" what if this meeting was an attempt by German intelligence to start to infiltrate Iraqi intelligence to get more data. All such contacts have to have a first meeting.\r\n\r\n Remember also, that apparently the U.S. and Britan managed to contact a number of upper level Iraqi commanders and get them to at least sit out the war. Some of those intitial contacts are probably in beaucratic files somewhere in Iraq -- the first contact has to be done in a way that doesn\'t immediately compromise either player.\r\n\r\n I\'m NOT saying that the Germans are innocent, but I do believe that we need a lot more information than this first memo to come to any solid conclusions.\r\n','2003-04-20 23:36:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1965,1,3357,'128.194.186.202','Gary','seeton@trinity.tamu.edu','','I have a friend that is an expatriate Hungarian that deplores socialists and recognizes the counterpart in large organizations everywhere. He considers himself quite conservative (despised Clinton etc.) yet when the war started he started on the conspiracy theories similar to your friend. My friend reads extensively on the Web but even believes CNN is a wanton tool of the government. He has sent me links to very well written Russian and other sites that he likes (They are much better written than anything I see in the American Press but oh so wrong).\r\n\r\nHe is buying in to outright lies, misconceptions and long involved well written propaganda that appears to be ever so much more intelligent and in some cases superficially fair minded (at least presenting more of the \'other\' side)\r\n\r\nI was confident that as the war went on that I would be able to show enough contradictions and correct predictions that some of his view would become untenable. \r\n\r\nTo my surprise and complete frustration all my \'evidence\' is considered government lies that mirror the Soviet lies of his past. He can not believe that the US government is not in nearly complete control here.\r\n\r\nHe thinks, for example, that the pictures of people cheering in the streets of Iraq were staged by stooges and camera angles. I am sure that any weapons found will be considered planted. \r\n\r\nI have found the same attitudes/beliefs in other Cold War refuges (all PhD(s)!!) \r\n\r\nMy friend is an extremely good, intelligent man but I am desperately looking for ways to reach him. I too am now very worried about others, perhaps majority, that think as he does. \r\n\r\nTime and experience will/may enlighten my friend but what about others not here and/or as intelligent/inquiring? \r\n','2003-04-21 02:14:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1966,1,3357,'138.88.46.96','Libre','libre@freedom.free','','Wow enloop, what a loop. Where were you when they needed a general, as you sure can generalize.\r\nBut There is a litthe truth in your arg. But the very societies you condemn are just emerging politically. You recognize that now they do heap mountains of insults over their leaders. Some years ago this would not have been possible (under colonization, one-party dictatorial rule, etc...).\r\nI am willing to bet that the Arafat-syndrome is due to the fact that people symobolizes something for their constitutents(after all the US and Israel hate him). It is rather typical for the populace to rally around their positional leader in the face of foreign aggression. Kinda like how Bush\'s approval ratings shot through the roof on September 14th 2001.\r\nArmed Liberal problem is just plain stupid denial: \"But that here, in the West, while I saw structural issues in the media\'s coverage of government, that I could not conceive of the media missing out on a chance to embarrass the government in this way\". Wake up, my friend, they got shagged, they are IN (look up Adelman\'s tip to Bush for a clue). Or is it \"America Love It Or Leave It\"-head-in-the-sand-I-do-not-want-to-know mode again? I for one am happy that the FF were not of your stock, AL, lest I\'d be blessing the Queen.\r\n','2003-04-21 02:28:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1967,1,3357,'138.88.46.96','Libre','libre@freedom.free','','Gary\r\n\r\nEver consider the posiibility that he may be right and that you are living in Denial-land?\r\nRemember Operation Norwood? Clinton? Hoover? Tuskeegee and Cincinnati Experiments?\r\nThe media and gov are institutions not isolated from society and as such reflects the greatness and faults of their constituents. the media is simply a tool of people with agendas (to inform as well as not to). \r\nDo your part: read, analyze (emphasis here), make up your own mind. But blind trust? Hell no. That was Soviet, and you would not want to be where the believing Russian is now, would you!!!','2003-04-21 02:36:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1968,1,3357,'81.5.146.53','Perry de Havilland','pdeh@NOSPAMsamizdata.net','http://samizdata.net/blog','Sorry to make such a long comment but this rally interests me.\r\n\r\nI have experienced very similar situations on several occasions myself. Between 1991 and 1996, I spent a great deal of time in the former Yugoslavia (mostly in Croatia but also in Bosnia-Herzegovina). The circles I moved in tended to be very well educated professionals (doctors, lawyers, architects, media people, fairly senior levels of government and military).\r\n\r\nAlthough I was often struck by how \'western\' the people were, particularly in Zagreb, on several occasions I was left breathless by a sudden demonstration that I was \'not in Kansas anymore\'. For example in the middle of a lengthy dinner conversation about the hoped for shape of post-war Balkan economics I was once told by an otherwise urbane and well travelled Croatian colonel that \"of course the Jewish bankers in London and New York have a vested interest in keeping this war going as long as possible\". My utter astonishment was compounded when several people at the table whom I quite respected just nodded and the conversation continued. Naturally I was not going to let that one slide past uncommented, given that I have a financial background in both London and New York. When I challenged the colonel to explain, it became clear that even though there was no real basis for his remarks, it was accepted as axiomatic \"because everyone knows that\". No matter what I said or pointed out to them, that was ultimately what they fell back on, getting increasingly annoyed each time I tried to pin down the source of this received wisdom.\r\n\r\nIn my time there I encountered many other equally weird conspiracy theories uttered by educated people and not once did I ever get a rational explanation for how they came to believe these things. One recurring theme was that the media in the west is all lies and clearly their experiences of having grown up under communism have so coloured their views that even those who have lived in the west cannot really comprehend the profound differences. The notion of being essentially pawns of unseen, malevolent and directed forces is so deeply part of the meta-context that nothing can be analysed on its own merits. Your experience with the Iranian gentleman is eerily similar to what I found in the Balkans and I suspect the underlying psychology is probably pretty similar.\r\n\r\nI strongly suspect there is not direct way to bridge such gapsand only time and the corrosive drip drip drip of exposure to more open societies can change world views which are distorted at the meta-contextual level like this.','2003-04-21 02:37:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1969,1,3346,'81.5.146.53','Perry de Havilland','pdeh@NOSPAMsamizdata.net','http://samizdata.net/blog','\"There is nothing liberal or left about Chirac. He is well to the right of Henry Kissinger.\"\r\n\r\nHilarious.\r\n\r\nComplete bollocks actually. The socialist left and mercantilist right in France are both so statist that the US understanding of the terms is completely meaningless. Neither wing supports free enterprise or a less regulated society, they just argue over who gets to make the rules. Sound familiar?\r\n\r\n In French politics only Alain Madelin comes close to a truly differentiated position: a true liberal (i.e. not a statist nor on the left).','2003-04-21 02:50:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1970,1,3254,'64.172.50.2','syrus','syrus7@yahoo.com','','Tell me more about this story, time travel and all...','2003-04-21 03:09:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1971,1,3357,'66.57.16.248','enloop','enloop@yahoo.com','','Libre: \r\n\r\nI wasn\'t intending to condemn anyone. My comments reflect several years of living in sub-Saharan Africa and the Middle East. That relationship with leaders, and that belief in unseen powers pulling strings behind the scene, was made clear to me many, many times, often in response to direct questions on my part. By and large, gender, class, income and education didn\'t change the responses\r\n\r\n','2003-04-21 03:19:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1972,1,3357,'12.230.18.205','Marie Foster','mfos1@attbi.com','http://blogs.salon.com/0002237/','From the standpoint of democracy as participatory I think your problem is a provincial attitude. This is your frame of reference. My experience is that people are often more astute than that. They do not want to give up traditional connections between people that result when market economies replace subsistance farming, herding, or any number of alternative ways to put bread on the table and leave enough time to sit with your neighbor and enjoy telling stories.\r\n\r\nThis ultimately is the problem that globalization brings to people. Competition takes the place of cooperation and values between people break down.\r\n\r\nPeople resent this \'gift\'. Is it not their right to reject it if they want?','2003-04-21 04:31:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1973,1,3357,'66.57.16.248','enloop','enloop@yahoo.com','','Marie:\r\n\r\nI\'ve tended to consider anti-globalization sentiment as just so much repackaged Western racism, the bastard child of \"the white man\'s burden\" and all that rubbish. . But, even if it isn\'t, there is no way that Neolithic-style herding and subsistence farming can be considered to be an appropriate way of life for any human being, anywhere, in the 21st century. To assert the contrary is to deny any notion of human progress, and to idealize the harshness and misery of subsistence farming or herding as a benignly and happily cooperative way of life. They are neither benign nor cooperative.','2003-04-21 04:41:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1974,1,3357,'128.194.186.202','Gary','seeton@trinity.tamu.edu','','(I too must apologize for a long post but I have been very much at loose ends over this for the some months now and I am looking for any suggestions.)\r\n\r\nLibre, I am not speaking of blind trust in the American government but rather the illogical complete mistrust of everything the US or any government does. My friend was even worried that our emails back and forth might get him into trouble, this despite all the much more ‘subversive’ media content all around him that had not effect.\r\n\r\nI probably am at least as much a conspiracy theorist as you and I am well aware of how much the US press distorts news (mainly for their own, not government biases), alternately I am also aware how poor the press is at times at protecting us from US abuses.\r\n\r\nDoes anyone remember the Canadian’s jailing of supposed Islamic extremists for the Oklahoma bombings or the possible Philippine connection? When asked if they were going to release these men after McVeigh’s capture a Canadian official remarked “What for? They’re guilty.” How about the rifle that James Ray supposedly used to kill Martin Luther King that tested negative for a ballistic match at least twice a few years ago (the judge ordering the retesting was ultimately taken off the review of the case—I have never heard the results of the supposed third retest). The Tuskeegee study was no worse than the ‘radiation’ studies done on unwitting US soldiers.\r\n\r\nThe point here is that this evidence does come out in our society and the press in general is more free and unregulated here than anywhere else in the world. Thank God we don’t get the government we pay for. We don’t have to wait for the fall of our government for most truths to come out.\r\n\r\nThe ratio of right to wrong seems much higher here than most anywhere else in the world right now. I none the less wish to see continuing improvement of this ratio and in no way am I comfortable with the status quo nor am I at all sure how long our Republic/Democracy will survive.\r\n\r\nWhat I am sure of is that we don’t do a better job of communicating what we do stand for we will fail as a nation for lies and misconceptions will win out in the apparent vacuum that has been revealed by these posts.\r\n\r\nI have not even hinted at some of the theories I am hearing from some of my friends for they make Perry De Havilland’s example look tame. \r\n\r\nI am aware of how poorly the Russian Jews have been treated in Israel, their early terrorisms of the British and many other questionable actions but I can find no justification for the extreme anti-Jewish sentiment through most of the world. It seems to me that this simular to just before WWII. It seems even to be more acceptable or at least more open and possibly pervasive than in the 1930(s).\r\n\r\nBut what I decry most is this legacy of extreme paranoia that while often justified in localized circumstances leads to complete inability to have any sense of balance and leads one to easy manipulation by the very same type of forces that were the focus of the paranoia in the first place.\r\n\r\nIf I could afford to take my friends to Iraq I could fight some of their misconceptions by letting them talk directly to the people for themselves but such solutions are not economical on a mass basis. A society that can not or will not efficiently communicate with themselves and the outside world will fail.\r\n','2003-04-21 04:42:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1975,1,3357,'4.61.2.117','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Libe -\r\n\r\nFirst, while I\'m puzzled by my friend\'s positions I make a point not to insult him, and you\'ll have a lot more success in engaging me and others in dialog (as opposed to self-righteous mutual chest beating) if you\'d cut back on the level of insult.\r\n\r\nYeah, of course I\'ve considered the possibility that he\'s right.\r\n\r\nThat\'s why I look at as many diverse sources of data as possible, and try to get primary sources whenever I can.\r\n\r\nWhen they are largely in agreement - when CNN, the BBC, the Guardian, Arab News, and Le Monde all pretty much agreee and the commercially-available satellite photos all show mututally consistent data, I have ot turn to people who suggest an alternate reality and ask them for some fact to hang their position on.\r\n\r\nWhen I see one, I\'ll consider it.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-04-21 05:05:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1976,1,3357,'128.253.136.17','John Thacker','thacker@math.cornell.edu','','Marie, it\'s not that people reject the gift of modern civilization. In fact, the vast majority accept and welcome it. Just look at the directions in which immigration flows.\r\n\r\nOf course, people are free to reject modernity, there\'s nothing wrong with that. (Although, sadly, it means more work, a shorter lifespan, and, in most places in the world, fewer human rights, especially women\'s rights.) It\'s the people that decide to forcibly make other people reject it, when those other people don\'t want to, that\'s most troubling. \r\n\r\nIt\'s the people that get violent because they\'re losing, because others don\'t agree with them. It\'s like the French farmers who bomb McDonald\'s because too many French people choose to eat there. If there weren\'t plenty of people who wanted to eat at McDonald\'s, they wouldn\'t exist there.','2003-04-21 06:18:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1977,1,3357,'207.43.195.204','roublen vesseau','roublen@yahoo.com','http://hardheads.blogspot.com/','If this has been posted on a liberal blog, I\'m sure someone would have noted by now that large numbers of Amricans answer \"yes\" to the questions 1) \"Do you believe Saddam Hussein was involved and had fore-knowledge of the September 11 attacks?\" and 2) \"Were there Iraqis among the Semptember 11 hijackers?\". On a lighter note, a poll once found Americans on average believe we spend 15 percent of the budget on foreign aid. (actual number is a little less than 1 percent)\r\n\r\nThe percentage of the budget we spend on foreign aid is obviously a much less important issue than civilian casualties, but the factor error of 15X is the same. \r\n\r\nNow do large numbers of Americans *really* believe Saddam Hussein had fore-knowledge of September 11? I think in their heart of hearts they don\'t, but they believe he is *capable* of such a thing and they are not willing to give him an out *in any way*. Similarly, your Iranian friend in his heart of hearts may not *really* believe that CNN is all a mass of Government lies, but he believes the Americans (we) are morally *capable* of inflicting 75,000 civilian casualties without remorse, and he is not willing to give us an out *in any way*.\r\n\r\nI\'ve got more to say, but for now I\'ll say that the fundamental emotion that\'s causing all these lies to be believed is envy and shame, envy of American (Western) riches, freedom, cultural and technological achievements, and above all, American military dominance, and shame that their societies are lagging so far behind. So you attack these types of lies in two ways 1) by aggressively televising and promoting the truth. If the truth is on your side, then the more sunshine, the more cameras, the more debates, the more interviews the better. 2) by trying to reduce the envy that is the fundamental cause of these lies being produced and believed. \r\n\r\nWhen you\'re the richest man in town, some people, perhaps a lot of people, are going to hate you no matter what you do. But how you act makes a big difference as well. The poor and powerless have a responsibility not to succumb to feelings of envy, shame and hatred, but the rich and powerful also have a responsibility be generous, polite and humble. They could be doing better, but so could we.','2003-04-21 06:25:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1978,1,3357,'128.194.186.202','Gary','seeton@trinity.tamu.edu','','RE: \"envy and shame, envy of American (Western) riches, freedom, cultural and technological achievements, and above all, American military dominance, and shame that their societies are lagging so far behind.”\r\n\r\nRoublen, I used to think as you do but the people I am meeting in the last few years (cold war scientists—I am a physicist) mostly love America and fought hard to get here. Yet they feel we are loosing our own values (the very values they came here for) and are blind dupes to our ever more Soviet style government at it’s most doctorial, hence the extreme paranoia.\r\n','2003-04-21 06:39:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1979,1,3357,'203.45.127.72','wretchard','wretchardthecat@hotmail.com','','I think you can safely tell your friend that the 75,000 civilian casualty figure is implausibly high. I will advance several reasons, others may occur to you.\r\n\r\nFirst, the highest estimate of Iraqi military casualties, who were actively targeted, does even reach 20,000. In order to inflict 75,000 civilian casualties, US forces would have had to strike nearly 4 civilians for every combatant.\r\n\r\nSecond, apart from the first Marine division and the last stages of the 3rd ID\'s campaign, most US forces were deployed outside Mesopotamia, west of the Eurphrates. The Marines themselves thrusted up a narrow corridor to the Tigris. They were notoriously shy of towns, as lamanted endlessly by the media and claimed by the Ba\'ath themselves. These Marines were the only ground units capable of inflicting casualties on the scale your Iranian friend describes. There were embeds with the Marines. Had they inflicted casualties on this scale, it would be impossible to conceal.\r\n\r\nThird, the air bombardment was concentrated on IRG units in the southern defense arc of Baghdad, which was located outside the population centers. Apart from the fact that this would militate against civilian casualties, you have to ask yourself why the US military would waste expensive munitions on civilians when every weapon was desperately needed to thin out the IRG. Killing civilians on this scale could only be accomplished by a careful selection of targets: a policy, in other words. It would be impossible to conceal this targeting policy from the public: too many pilots and crew chiefs to silence. There was little bombing in Baghdad itself. Even the famous market attack, if you look at the photographic evidence, looks more like a 120 mm mortar or AA artillery strike than a 1,000 lb cruise missile warhead.\r\n\r\nFourth, the claimed scale itself. Seventy five thousand casualties is death on the scale of Hiroshima. All mass death sites take place in particular places and they leave indelible marks. Skeletal remains, mass graves, ordnance marks, etc are hard to clean up. Consider the Battle of the Somme, in which there were 57,000 casualties on the first day. That remnants of that battle are still viewable. Unexploded shells, and they were expended in their millions, are still turning up, 80 years after the fact. Where did the 75,000 die? Given the size of Iraqi towns, where could they have died? In the countryside?\r\n\r\nI do not doubt the sincerity of your Iranian friend, but he is probably wrong.','2003-04-21 07:38:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1980,1,3357,'210.50.134.127','Paul Johnson','pj@hotmail.com','','Bigotry comes in many shapes.\r\n','2003-04-21 11:08:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1981,1,3357,'207.164.54.212','Peter Burnet','pburnet@aserty.com','','Wretchard\'s cool analysis is both persuasive and naive. The point of the story was that the sophisticated Iranian preferred to believe street rumours from a village over the cumulative knowledge of the international media, the Internet, etc. Does Wretchard think he would read his post and now say: \"Oh, now I see.\"?\r\n\r\nAnyone tracking MEMRI or the Arab news will see how the Middle East is treated to the most fantastic fables. For example, the official Syrian press reported the Baghdad museum was looted by the Israelis as retribution for their captivity in Babylon. Unfortunately, too many \"sophisticated, anti-Baathist\" Arabs are likely to reply that that is nonsense--the Israelis did it to strip us of our history!\r\n\r\nAlthough Germany was effectively de-Nazified, it was well into the sixties before the Germans confronted en masse the reality of their history. The US is in for a big disappointment if it dreams truth or even common sense will reign in this part of the world soon. What Armed Liberal should be pondering is how far the US should go to protect its and Western security needs before it betrays its own values or shoots itself in the foot, and also how much he should really care what the Arab street thinks. Drawing lines in the sand may be more important than winning hearts and minds.','2003-04-21 11:45:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1982,1,3357,'209.254.96.100','Richard Aubrey','EAubrey103@aol.com','','Have you ever dealt with a certifiably delusional person? Probably not. You\'d have to be on the staff of an institution. But there are others, not institutionalized, who are delusional in one or another aspect of their lives.\r\nTrying to talk to them about their unfailingly counterproductive choices is like shooting BBs at a basketball. There is no penetration, and not even any traction. They always have a reason that your facts don\'t count. And they will think of wilder and wilder theories to discredit the facts.\r\nIt\'s tough enough dealing with one person like that.\r\nThink about dealing with people like that in multi-million lots.\r\nActing as if they will react reasonably to our actions or words is riding for a fall.\r\nWe need to be prepared to control them into rational behavior. Simple facts and persuasion won\'t do it.\r\nSpeculation as to what need their delusions satisfy may be enjoyable, but hardly likely to be useful.\r\nIt may be that we have to wait for a new generation to replace the hopelessly deluded.\r\n','2003-04-21 14:35:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1983,1,3357,'140.146.138.163','Andy','Andy00@aol.com','','Then there\'s the deal with numbers. During the 2000 census, I helped count living people in the U.S. as well as determine where they were living at a particular point of time. \r\n\r\nThat required a LOT of people, using sophisticated listing, training, etc. And this was more or less with the help of the people we were counting. Great care had to be made not to count the same folks twice, etc.\r\n\r\nCounting casualties would require even more elaborate coordination. \"Talking with some witnesses\" does not cut it. \r\n\r\nOne thing I\'ve always noticed about \"conspiracy\" people is they do NOT rely on evidence supporting their claim. After all, it\'s a distrust of any organized group that\'s behind the conspiracy.\r\n\r\nThe conspiracy mindset, even if it were true, dooms one utterly. You no longer rely on facts or even logical trains of thought. Plus, in order to have the \"victim\'s moral advantage\" you can\'t believe that there\'s anything anyone can do to have the truth come out. Thus, the argument that \"the numbers you\'ve been told are lies\" cannot ever be countered. \r\n\r\n','2003-04-21 15:35:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1984,1,3357,'207.164.54.212','Peter Burnet','pburnet@burnetlaw.com','','Well put, Richard Aubrey. Yes, I have had the experience of dealing with the certifiably delusional when I meet otherwise apparently rational types who tell me how great the world will be when the UN runs it.','2003-04-21 15:46:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1985,1,3338,'68.38.40.106','Bob','bob@bob.com','','Khomeini???? That was IRAN and not IRAQ. I know they are only one letter apart, but it seems like an important distinction to make. Unless by talking about \"the enemy\" that has \"warred against us\" you mean all muslims.\r\n\r\nYou label me a nihilist which is not fair. I am against pre-emption, another word for agression. I was against putting Saddam in power and giving him in power and selling him these terrible WMD. I understand it can be put in historical context, but that would mean admitting that Saddam was out allie in striking back against Iran after the hostage taking that you cite as a reason for this war. I was against encouraging the Iran Iraq war and supplying Saddam with the weapons that he would later turn against his own people. I was against us defending Saddam when he gassed th Kurds. I was against us telling Saddam that we had no interest in his conflict with Kuwait. I am also for things. I support the Syria resolution to to make the region free of WMD. I would like to see us sign the anti land mine treaty and the Kyoto protocal. I would like for us to engage in diplomacy instead of warmongering. I would like for us to encourage our allies to stop bahaving like Saddam (Ethiopia, Uzbekistan, Rawanda, Albania, Colombia, Eritrea, Uganda, etc.) and improve their human rights. This could liberate people from brutal regimes without a war. I would like for us to stop our silence about the genocide in the Congo. You might disagree woth what I support and oppose but it is unfair to label me a cynical nhilist.\r\n\r\nI have no hidden thesis as you insist. I am a US citizen and I do not think my country is evil. I do not think it is perfect either. I never catagorized you as \"corrupt.\" I believe that your post came from the heart. How could anyone not be sickened by Saddam\'s brutal rule? But you should accept that my post came from the heart as well.\r\n\r\nI did not put my real name or email address for fear that I would get hate mail. If you would like to continue this debate in private, let me know by posting something below and I will email you. I find your writing eleqount and I hope that we both could learn from the debate if you are interested.\r\n','2003-04-21 16:45:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1986,1,3357,'207.168.131.207','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','As for the idea that being educated and affluent should shield you from silly ideas, I have heard that President Bush doesn\'t believe in evolvution, he is a creationist. How\'s that for still reading fairy tales?','2003-04-21 16:51:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103821,1,9801,'69.181.124.101','Thomass','thomass@hotmail.com','','#2 from Beard at 3:04 pm on Oct 05, 2007 \r\n\r\n\'But it is the ones on the Right who currently control our nation and its future, and who have led us to the edge of the abyss.\'\r\n\r\nOr the democrats, devoid of new ideas, choosing to adopt the extreme paranoid rhetoric about their political opponents presented by the socialist / conspiracy theorists of the far left… as an alternative for serious thought... or serious program (wow, min wage hike, way to go… eye roll…)…\r\n\r\n#4 from Fletcher Christian at 5:09 pm on Oct 05, 2007 \r\n\r\n\' am a Brit, and we have our own problems,\'\r\n\r\nWow, a Brit trying to make arguments about America becoming an empire... that’s about as rare as a French person complaining about our over reaching [non] culture... or Germans saying that Bush has the media in lock step since he is a criminal and virtual dictator... Infantile... project your shadows onto the boogie man... and no one calls you on it back home I suspect... lame… \r\n','2007-10-07 08:31:01','2007-10-07 00:31:01',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103822,1,9802,'67.170.182.147','Michael J. Totten','michaeltotten001@gmail.com','http://michaeltotten.com','Alphie,\r\n\r\nYou asked me what you promised was a sincere question about Rafik Hariri and said \"Believe it or not, I come here to learn about Lebanon.\"\r\n\r\nI took you seriously and answered your question by directing you my my interview with Eli Khoury. Your response? \"Khoury has received millions of dollars from Karl Rove.\"\r\n\r\nIt is not possible to have an honest conversation with you, and you proved it once and for all with that paranoid and juvenile response. ','2007-10-07 09:45:11','2007-10-07 01:45:11',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1988,1,3349,'166.93.84.10','JB','jbh@jbholston.com','http://www/.jbholston.com/weblog.php','cool idea. place bloggers in many venues across israel to report on ... whatever ... from all over that beautiful land. with enough warning, (kids et al), i\'m interested...','2003-04-21 19:57:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1989,1,3357,'192.189.236.20','Dean','sunzi36@yahooo.com','','Quick observation:\r\n\r\nMost people (Americans perhaps a little less so) know VERY little about military affairs, equipment, etc. Their view of military capabilities are moulded by movies/Hollywood, (distant) memories of WWII and Vietnam, and what \"makes sense\" from those two starting points. \r\n\r\nIf you\'re not an American, it gets more warped. \r\n\r\nIf your friend is Iranian and spent time in Iran during the Iran-Iraq War, then what he knows is of blind bombing raids and blind missile attacks (the War of the Cities). \r\n\r\nThrow in the images of B-52s and B-2s and B-1s dropping bombs, and the American technological superiority (for which there is not necessarily an innate understanding of the real meaning), and the idea of killing 4 civilians for every soldiers becomes quite easy. \r\n\r\nThink about it: Massive bombing raids, w/ aircraft whose payloads are an order of magnitude greater than any SCUD. W/ virtually no opposition. And (if he lived through the War of the Citiets), knowledge of what the limited Iraqi long-range stuff could do, properly scaled up (and probably doubled and redoubled, given our fearsome prowess). \r\n\r\nThen, there\'s the image of the MOAB that went around (which some folks think were dropped). \r\n\r\nFinally, I suppose, there may be an element of personal bias. How would YOU go about fighting a war (remembering that you\'re not necessarily someone who\'s thought about this very much, in any systematic kind of way)? Probably like WWII and Vietnam, w/ massive bombing raids, etc. ','2003-04-21 20:02:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1990,1,3357,'152.163.190.1','Celeste','celeste@windsofchange.net','http://permagringirl.blogspot.com','As far as fairy tales go, I\'d rather a president who believed in creationism than in the international jewish conspiracy... or should we amend the constitution to permit only atheists to serve? I will, of course, change my position the second that President Bush moves to recognize creationism as the \'official\' truth.\r\n\r\nMy experiences are somewhat similar to A.L.\'s. I\'ve spoken to a number of well-educated westernized muslims - U.S. citizens - who still maintain that jews drink the blood of muslim infants, and take it as a given that the international zionist conspiracy is running the federal government. Trying to change their minds is like trying to argue evolution to a fundamentalist christian, and as satisfying as ramming my head into a brick wall.','2003-04-21 20:53:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1991,1,3357,'207.168.131.207','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','For Chuck(le) and Celeste,\r\nFair enough, Chuck, here are a couple of places I saw the references. I haven\'t spoken with the president face to face to ask him about it though.\r\nhttp://slate.msn.com/id/1006378/\r\nhttp://www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/PRES_BUSH.HTM\r\nand Celeste, no we don\'t need to have atheists in the white house. The point was to show that educated, affluent people aren\'t always rational, whether they are Americas or Iranians, or any other nationality. I think Celeste\'s comments just drove the point home all the more. Smile!','2003-04-21 22:23:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1992,1,3349,'199.4.20.2','Laura Antoniou','LauraBlog@aol.com','http://lantoniou.blogspot.com','My synagogue, Congregation Beth Simchat Torah, will be doing a trip to Israel in December 2003. My web log actually started as a journal of my trip this past December. The best place for linking that I found in the Old City was the Armenian coffee shop right near the Jaffa Gate, where they had high speed connections and about a dozen fairly new computers. The idea of a group of bloggers over there makes me wish I could be with whatever other trips are being planned!','2003-04-21 22:45:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1993,1,3357,'63.166.226.83','inkgrrl','kari@inkgrrl.com','http://www.inkgrrl.com/inkblog.htm','A.L., Celeste, I have to add a third nod of agreement to your experiences. Time after time, both with first-generation Arabs and Iranians, I have run smack into that brick wall of profound belief in conspiracy theories, etc. The strength of that conviction denies any possibility of rational thought or open-minded conversation - it is held to be as true as gravity and oxygen that The Super Secret Fascist Spy Government is running Everything (including your clothes dryer, which is bugged), but you\'ll have as much success debating its veracity in the face of zero proof as you would trying to hold a reasoned discourse about an ineffective course of action with someone whose motivation is love or religion - \"God told me to,\" or \"But I love him.\" It\'s infuriating and sad.','2003-04-21 23:00:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103819,1,9801,'68.228.68.130','SpellCheck','spellcheck@spelling.com','','You misspelled hysteresis.\r\n\r\nI only mention this because I tried to look it up. :)','2007-10-07 07:37:20','2007-10-06 23:37:20',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103820,1,9801,'209.159.228.61','Glen Wishard','nadi55us@aol.com','http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Glen_Wishard','Beard -\r\n\r\n\"Pew data on Party Affiliation.\":http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=750\r\n\r\nI wouldn\'t use Brad\'s term \"overwhelming\" to characterize it. A majority of single Americans are Democrats, and a majority of married Americans are Republicans, with a stronger Republican majority among married couples with children.\r\n\r\nThat\'s post-9/11 data. Obviously it was not always so, but anyone familiar with the changing political landscape since 1968 should not be surprised. ','2007-10-07 08:23:53','2007-10-07 00:23:53',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103818,1,9801,'72.183.109.82','Beard','the_beard7@yahoo.com','','bq. _Support of the inheritance tax means two things and two things only: DESTROY THE SUCCESSFUL! and CAPITALISM IS EEEEVIL!_ [Ric Locke, #66]\r\n\r\nWho told you this? \r\n\r\nFirst, the inheritance tax only applies to successful people who *die*. They have to die first. they are not destroyed by the tax, or even their fortune. It doesn\'t even destroy their children\'s ability to be rich with unearned wealth. It just decreases how much they get, and makes it less likely for the fortune to become self-perpetuating. If the kids are smart and hard-working, they have the capital to start getting rich in their own right. If not, they have to be more careful, or the money will run out, and they\'ll have to get a job.\r\n\r\nSecond, the inheritance tax *supports* capitalism, by somewhat increasing the extent to which wealth reflects one\'s own abilities, hard work, and luck, not your parents\' or grandparents\'. And the notion that only wealthy family fortunes accumulate investment capital is totally wrong. The world (especially California and South Asia) is full of venture capitalists, running large funds that pool money from wealthy people, looking for really smart entrepreneurs to invest in, so they can grow their pool further.\r\n\r\nWhat the inheritance tax actually does is make it more difficult for the non-productive children and grandchildren of successful people to stay wealthy without working. \r\n\r\nI don\'t have a problem with that. Do you?\r\n\r\n','2007-10-07 06:22:43','2007-10-06 22:22:43',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1996,1,3319,'66.124.8.14','bob','bob@eatit.com','','all i know is this kinzey report re: cnn is funny, he states to watch FOX news, he forget that fox new has such good rep[orters like \"oliver north\", \"mark furhman\" list goes on & on, i call CNN, FOX & MSANBC (WMD) weapons of mass distraction...\r\n\r\nbob\r\n\r\nps dont believe the hype','2003-04-22 01:05:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(1997,1,3357,'66.19.162.61','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Chuck, I dropped you an e mail but I will make the comment here that after you chided me, I did a bit more searching than just the one reference I had read, and it would appear that the president only said creationism should be taught, not that he didn\'t believe in evolution. I stand corrected. Also looks like I\'m in much over my undereducated head to even comment in places like this, I\'ll be leaving now, thanks again,\r\nDave','2003-04-22 01:22:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103816,1,9802,'71.231.123.210','alphie','gmplayer@hotmail.com','http://alphavictim.blogspot.com/','A.L.,\r\n\r\nI think that is close, but it would exclude the Founding Fathers and the soldiers who fought in the Revolutionary War, wouldn\'t it?\r\n\r\nIf the original patriots are no longer patriots, what were they?\r\n','2007-10-07 04:25:07','2007-10-06 20:25:07',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103817,1,9802,'71.163.145.21','Demosophist','demosophist-at-windsofchange-dot-net@nada.nix','http://windsofchange.net','If the original patriots are no longer patriots, what were they?
\r\n\r\nIt\'s both. Wretchard has a pretty good post about this on PJM. \r\n\r\nThe difference is that those who fought the Revolutionary War were fighting to establish ideals that had been specifically expressed in the founding documents. In fact, the Declaration of Independence is less a declaration than a statement of faith. If the truths expressed therein were actually \"self-evident\" then there\'d have been no need for a two hundred plus year struggle to establish them, both nationally and internationally. The common thread here is that they had faith in something that was rational, even if only dimly perceived. And that isn\'t the same as having faith in something that\'s not even self-consistent (such as multiculturalism or the post-modern diversity cult).\r\n\r\nThere were also a lot of counter-revolutionaries at the time. If you walk into the Old North Church in Boston you\'ll see the plaques to the Tory parishioners who skedaddled to Canada at the start of the Revolution. They were \"patriotic.\" They just weren\'t liberal (whig).\r\n\r\n\"We the un-British...\"\r\n\r\nThe Scots were a lot more sympathetic, I imagine.\r\n\r\n','2007-10-07 05:49:28','2007-10-06 21:49:28',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103815,1,9801,'67.173.230.242','Robin Roberts','finalprotfire@comcast.net','http://robinroberts.blogspot.com/','Alan #42, yes, the best I can do is come up with an example of something that you\'ve not refuted - that the case of Ex Parte Quirin was the law of the US with respect to when the executive could try unlawful combatants outside of the civil justice system and which remained the law of the land until just a few years ago with the Hamdi case.\r\n\r\nDan #48, see my #33 which is about that very topic. Habeus corpus was not applied to military detentions until very recently, there were several Civil War cases on the issue as well as Ex Parte Quirin in WWII. The idea that habeus corpus was a writ that extended to captured combatants is indeed a \"right\" whose life is best measured in months.','2007-10-07 04:04:40','2007-10-06 20:04:40',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2000,1,3357,'4.61.2.117','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','[sigh]...\r\n\r\n...no, Chuck, I banned you from my site (and looks like I\'ll be discussing doing it here as well) because you a) confuse invective with argument, and b) mistake a declaration of fact by you for absolute proof. Your post above is a brass-plated example of what I\'m talking about.\r\n\r\nSince a) is unpleasant, and b) makes arguments kind of moot, why don\'t you go write the Truth as You Know It down someplace else and try to share it with the rest of us? The rest of us are trying to have a discussion.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-04-22 02:06:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2001,1,3357,'12.47.68.22','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Well, Chuck, at least you were willing to dialogue with me a bit. Better than some of the one time \"eat shit and die\" type of comments I get from lesser writers. I sent the e mail to the e mail address you posted in the comments here. Sorry if you didn\'t get it but it basicly appologized as I did above for everyone to see, because I didn\'t do my homework. Now I am dissapointed to see you change a word I said, from \"not being rational\" to not being the \"brightest\" For someone as careful as you are, I was surprised you would try to put words in my mouth like that. For the record, I don\'t dislike anyone here, I don\'t dislike the president. Since when does everyone have to agree 100% or be considered defective? I will take your word on Clinton being a drag queen though. ,;-)','2003-04-22 03:16:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2002,1,3357,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Hi all. When it comes right down to it, this is my site. So, here are the rules. There are very few.\r\n\r\nRULE #1: Do not directly endanger others with your posts. EX: I\'ve deleted posts about Salam Pax that discussed details - amazingly, in response to a post asking folks to put a zipper on the details because it may endanger him. Jeeeez...\r\n\r\nRULE #2: No spam. I delete comments spams, and ban the IP. Fortunately, I can only recall one instance of that so far.\r\n\r\nRULE #3: If your post does not even have a chance of being relevant to the topics under discussion, I\'ll consider removing it. I\'ve done that exactly once.\r\n\r\nRULE #4: I expect a certain degree of civility and language here. If you post stuff liable to get my site filtered by certain firewalls, I\'ll act in self-defense.\r\n\r\nThat\'s pretty broad latitude. Basically, you all own your own words (but can be quoted on them here and elsewhere). Whether your choice of words makes you look like a genius or a moron is entirely up to you; whether one\'s reputation attracts thoughtful responses or gets one ignored is the choice of other readers. My preference is to stand back, and let that self-created advertisement and consequences operate in the court of opinion.\r\n\r\nChuck, you\'ve made some interesting and enlightening posts to this thread. The recent bit of off the rails invective directed at Armed Liberal wasn\'t one of them. Personally - I had NO idea where that came from, and it didn\'t make much sense. \r\n\r\nCan we all please get back to the issues at hand? The subject is important.','2003-04-22 03:26:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2003,1,3357,'4.61.2.117','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','So it seems Joe and I may see things slightly differently here.\r\n\r\nI see discussions like this as a way of learning something. Part of how I see things is that truth often emerges in dialog; people bring up facts and ideas that may contradict mine, and some of them are better - more powerful, more useful.\r\n\r\nThe problem is that this is a somewhat delicate balance to strike. On one hand, you have to support opposition and debate - even heated, passionate debate. On the other, we all something have a habit of arguing to win as opposing to arguing to illuminate.\r\n\r\nI have a simple line that I use to distinguish the two; it has to do with respect for the other people involved. It involves staying away from ad hominem arguments, namecalling, and invective.It involves working to make your arguments accessible, and refraining from cheap rhetorical tricks. It\'s about simple decency toward the other participants - however outlandish their ideas or arguments may be.\r\n\r\nOn my own blog, I\'ve deleted posts and banned two people because after substantial private email discussion, they couldn\'t get this seemingly simple idea. As you may have noticed, one of them is posting here.\r\n\r\nI delete comments like this not because they challenge my positions, but because they don\'t. They\'re the equivalent of slinging \"yo\' mama\'s\". And the problem isn\'t my thin skin (hint: it isn\'t) but the fact that the less-engaged commenters scan a discussion thread like this, and just leave instead of staying and contributing.\r\n\r\nJoe and I will have a further discussion on this, but from my point of view I\'m just going to ignore people who scrawl electronic graffiti here. \r\n\r\nAnd Chuck[le], I\'m happy to take your issues on privately; I\'m in kind of a bad mood today, missed my time at the dojo, and it\'ll give me something to do with the unused aggression. Drop me a note, just don\'t confuse that dialog with meaningful discussion.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-22 05:28:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2004,1,3357,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Not sure we\'re as far apart as we seem here.\r\n\r\nI\'m of the opinion that irrelevant ad hominem argument, lack of respect et. al. do teach... they teach that the person engaging in this conduct is not to be taken very seriously, surely a valuable lesson to all. \r\n\r\nOf course, everyone slips on occasion, and sometimes tempers flare. Folks who own up earn public credibility points, those who don\'t lose them.\r\n\r\n\"...from my point of view I\'m just going to ignore people who scrawl electronic graffiti here.\"\r\n\r\nWell, sure. Anyone can do that, for any reason at all. Just because I don\'t delete a comment, doesn\'t mean that anyone else has to give it attention - via email or otherwise. As is true anywhere, respect and attention are earned.\r\n\r\nI\'ve been very happy with the quality of discussion in our Comments sections of late, and wish to see that continue. I\'m also reluctant to play nanny in any way, believing that our readers are up to the challenge of dealing with these things. I\'m prepared to review that stance if reality mugs it, but my bet is that it won\'t be necessary.','2003-04-22 06:33:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2005,1,3359,'66.27.50.74','Steven Den Beste','sdenbes1@san.rr.com','http://denbeste.nu','Actually, we did get the jobs sorted out. And Russell Wardlow contributed by far the finest logo one could ever ask for.','2003-04-22 08:47:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2006,1,3254,'200.67.190.195','Clive','cliveste@hotmail.com','','Has anyone considered what the money would be worth in 200 years. After inflation, probably not much. Also wouldn\'t it seem a bit suspicious if he suddenly has 200 year old currency. If he invests it in some companies or trust funds, then how is he going to legally obtain this in the future. There probably is some method to transfer the funds to his future but what would it be worth? If he didn\'t research his being arrested then I doubt he has any idea about transferring the money. If the past is not immutable then how can he be sure he will recieve the money? Just some thoughts. Serveral co-workers actually thought this story was true and I have sold the Brooklyn Bridge five times, any other believers out there want a piece of the bridge.','2003-04-22 14:37:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2007,1,3349,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net/','Subject: trip to israel \r\nDate: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 1\r\nFrom: dvorah, at agri.huji.ac.il\r\n\r\nI work at the Faculty of Agriculture at Hebrew University, and if you do have a trip, I could help arrange a tour of the campus here in Rehovot, if you want. (the person in charge of visitors is a very nice english speaking lady, who also could put you in touch with her counterpart in Jerusalem)','2003-04-22 15:39:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2008,1,3349,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net/','From: \"Seebach, Linda\" (lastname; rockymountainnews.com)\r\n\r\nThe National Conference of Editorial Writers does one or two foreign trips a year - I was on one to Russia in 1999 (while NATO was bombing Kosovo) and one to Israel in October 2001 (the week an Israeli cabinet minister was assassinated).\r\n\r\nThe agency that organized these trips specializes in media travel, and did a terrific job. Here\'s a link to the web page describing the interviews Brian O\'Hanlon arranged for us.\r\n\r\nI don\'t know if Brian is still active, and I don\'t seem to have kept his e-mail address, but if he is (and the NCEW people ought to be able to tell you) he\'d be someone you ought to consider if you look for someone to arrange your trip. --linda seebach','2003-04-22 15:43:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2009,1,3349,'35.11.220.168','Jared Goldberg','goldbe49@msu.edu','http://jdgman.blogspot.com','Sounds great. Would this be over the summer, I wonder? ','2003-04-22 16:01:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2010,1,3361,'171.161.160.10','Jeff Medcalf','medcalf@caerdroia.org','http://www.caerdroia.org/blog/','I think that the American people are looking for a reason to like the Germans. Get rid of Schroeder and Fischer, and we\'d be happy again.\r\n\r\nIn contrast, Americans seem to be looking for reasons to dislike the French.\r\n','2003-04-22 16:15:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2011,1,3356,'209.254.96.100','Richard Aubrey','EAubrey103@aol.com','','While I agree that more proof is needed, there is another dimension which interests me.\r\nA certain component of the anti-war types believe with no evidence whatsoever, as an article of faith, that big corporations promote wars. But only American corporations.\r\nSomehow, with the occasional exception of the Brits, no other country\'s big corporations interfere with the peace and wonderfulness of the world.\r\nIf we apply the standard of proof necessary to satisfy these folks as to US corporations\' complicity in everything from WW I to Gulf II to the German situation, the Krauts would be irrefutably guilty. See, in this case, there is actually some evidence. A big change.','2003-04-22 16:17:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2012,1,3349,'12.111.129.60','oceanguy','oceanguy_fl@yahoo.com','http://oceanguy.blogspot.com','before October might be a stretch... after the first of the year would be great... I\'d love to join in!','2003-04-22 16:34:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103814,1,9801,'24.162.194.75','Warmongering Lunatic','anonymous@mailinator.com','','\"Social justice\" is a perfectly good phrase only in the same sense that \"People\'s Republic\" is a perfectly good phrase. Both, from the very day of coining, have been semantic frauds intended to disguise the ugly true nature of the concept promoted under the name, their advocates trying to claim the virtues (love of justice, love of democracy) of their opponents.','2007-10-07 03:54:35','2007-10-06 19:54:35',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103812,1,9802,'71.163.145.21','Demosophist','demosophist-at-windsofchange-dot-net@nada.nix','http://windsofchange.net','A.L.:\r\n\r\nI guess there\'s a meeting of the minds, then.\r\n\r\nHeh.','2007-10-07 03:38:09','2007-10-06 19:38:09',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103813,1,9802,'71.163.145.21','Demosophist','demosophist-at-windsofchange-dot-net@nada.nix','http://windsofchange.net','Jim:\r\n\r\nI should also say that I only disagree with Putnam\'s thesis in its absolute version. It\'s perfectly true that an ethnically homogeneous population has a much smaller set of social problems to deal with. That\'s why children with married parents can become the exception, rather than the rule, in Scandinavia, without total disruption of the society. Moveover, there\'s a finite limit to the speed with which the American Ideology can assimilate immigrant populations... or for that matter \"convert\" foreign populations. The future of the world, however, has to lie in the direction of that conversion, for precisely the reasons Putnam identifies. An ethnic identity can\'t assimilate another ethnic identity without the dilution of both, or the unwilling subjugation of the other. Well, except for the Japanese example of assimilating foreign cultures as part of your own. But the Japanese model is almost entirely unique.','2007-10-07 03:51:17','2007-10-06 19:51:17',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103811,1,9801,'71.165.153.44','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Dan, Churchill (Ward) was a minor figure; how about Howard Zinn? Chomsky? Michael Moore? I\'ll come back to the Netroots folks in a bit...Those are all pretty significant figured in the American intellectual left these days...\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2007-10-07 03:32:08','2007-10-06 19:32:08',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2017,1,3357,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','\"Something that transpired last Fall. You had to be there.\"\r\n\r\nSo why raise it here, if so? More bluntly... the rest of us don\'t care. Let\'s just stick to the issue at hand.','2003-04-22 17:38:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103809,1,9801,'68.80.40.186','Dan S.','ll@ll.com','http://angryfuzzy.blogspot.com','\"which in reality, of course, is hardly so\"\r\n\r\nthis is maybe a bit unclear? I\'m trying to say most of what\'s called \'the left\' today simply isn\'t, by most standards.','2007-10-07 03:24:10','2007-10-06 19:24:10',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103810,1,9801,'12.193.168.145','Ric Locke','warlocke@hyperusa.com','','Beard is fluent and almost persuasive, then destroys his(?) own argument. Sorry, Beard. One can almost think you believe your own BS.\r\n\r\nSupport of the inheritance tax means two things and two things only: DESTROY THE SUCCESSFUL! and CAPITALISM IS EEEEVIL! The first makes a mockery of any claims of favoring equality of opportunity over equality of outcome. Hammer those tall nails! The second is perhaps somewhat more subtle, because any industrial or post-industrial society requires amassing large pools of funds to buy and build the infrastructure necessary to support it. An inheritance tax accomplishes nothing except to require that such pools be the province of Government and Government alone.\r\n\r\nBut the real litmus test is Abu Ghraib.\r\n\r\nAmerican soldiers at that facility misbehaved in atrocious ways: take that as a given. Another soldier reported that misbehavior; higher authority took note, investigated, and tried and convicted the malefactors. The overall lesson should be that Americans are neither existentially \"bettor\" nor more virtuous than any other people; our population contains malefactors of all types, just as every other population does. The difference is that we try to discover, frustrate, and punish them, instead of giving them Civil Service sinecures complete with retirement plans and bonuses for energetic prosecution of their perversities.\r\n\r\nThe Standard Narrative about the events at Abu Ghraib posits that Americans are (or should be) existentially better than others in the world; considering that the behavior of the malefactors somehow stains the whole effort is pure and simple vanity and egotistical bigotry. The stains are already there, including on Beard. The real task is to try to do the right thing anyway, as the Army did in that case. Pretending some sort of saintly Virtue -- needing the capital letter -- that is somehow questioned by the existence of Bad People is an arrogant of self-importance not justified by the facts on the ground.\r\n\r\nRegards,\r\nRic','2007-10-07 03:30:14','2007-10-06 19:30:14',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2020,1,3357,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Well that\'s just the issue. For some people \"evidence\" just isn\'t in their lexicon... see today\'s follow up post of mine and its links.\r\n\r\nNow, in that situation A.L. could have demanded evidence and an apology. I\'d say it\'s equally valid in this situation to probe and try to find out where these statements are coming from. And when he does, the answer is basically somewhere between \"I made them up\" and \"divine revelation.\" Not said directly, but in so many words that was the response.\r\n\r\nA.L.\'s question then goes beyond the dinner, and my follow-up has taken that tack too. There\'s more than casual evidence from reading the Arab media and the experiences of people in this thread (like your brother-in-law) that this mindset is prevalent in the Arab and Persian worlds. In the Arab world, it may even be a majority mindset (Fouad Ajami\'s \"Dream Palace of the Arabs\"). At the very least, it\'s a significant minority.\r\n\r\nIf so, how will the U.S. be able to achieve its longer-term goals in the region? Because if it no rational dialogue is possible, all that\'s left is force - on a scale and of a nature that would be closer to the Mongols than it would to the current approach.\r\n\r\nHow to pierce this mindset, in order to avoid what would have to follow widespread failure to do so?','2003-04-22 19:07:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2021,1,3364,'68.164.38.244','iggy','iggy@hairyeyeball.net','http://blogalization.org','Yeah? Well I don\'t see the \"enslaved\" Shi\'ite cleric in Karbala feeling \"the soul within him climb /\r\nTo the awful verge of manhood.\" I hear him saying \"Our resistance to the foreign occupation will definitely take a nonviolent form ... at first.\" To rolling cameras from al-Jazeera. Are you the blogger from another planet, by any chance? \r\n\r\nWhat does it say about the millions of Arabs in the Middle East, and the gap between us, if this Westernized, educated, security-cleared man believes that we\'re essentially living in \"The Matrix\"? And what does that mean to our plans and hopes for the region?\r\n
\r\n\r\nthe issue and the discussion are not about whether or not 75,000 iraqis were really killed -- i don\'t think anyone here believes the anecdotal evidence A.L.\'s friend cited -- but the potential problems that may crop up when dealing with what one could describe as an entire society of paranoid schizophrenics?\r\n\r\njust an observation.\r\n\r\none of the great things to come out of the media\'s embedding within the armed forces is the clear character of our armed forces -- the most effective, efficient, precise, and humane military force the world has known. the ability to wage a war and topple a regime -- with a small, modernized force, causing fewer than 5,000 civilian casualties -- bespeaks an ability that, hopefully, will give our enemies pause and cause us to not need to deploy those forces in the future.','2003-04-22 19:50:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2023,1,3364,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','The Present Crisis extends beyond just Iraq, of course. I find it amazing that an Islamofascist government arrests a journalist, and you blame... George Bush. Then go on to chide ME for my grasp of reality? Hoookay....\r\n\r\nHere\'s reality. The crackdown in Iran is happening because this is the time when the USA is most distracted, and so this is the best time to try and remove or intimidate anyone who might lead a drive for real freedom in Iran.\r\n\r\nIran is currently very active in Iraq, in Karbala and especially in Kut. Their policy since before the war has been confrontation and subversion, and they know this will bring them into conflict with the USA (currently setting up its administration and securing the Syrian rear). Welcome to Phase 2 of the Iraq Military Campaign... which is still ongoing.\r\n\r\nSaddam\'s regime is over (yay!), but the war in Iraq is not. This will be nerve-wracking, but for people who study the way actual states have behaved throughout history rather than living in U.N. fantasy land, hardly abnormal or unusual.','2003-04-22 20:18:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2024,1,3361,'66.129.135.82','xavier','buscaraons@netscape.net','http://www.buscaraons.blogspot.com','Jeff:\r\nIt\'s precisely that attitude of looking for reasons to despise the French that really bugs me. As I\'ve argued at my blog, the French will still contribute to the ongoing war on terrorism. So one day the Americans will find themselves in the unenviable position of swallowing their disdain and get French help on a matter.\r\n xavier ','2003-04-22 21:06:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2025,1,3357,'32.97.110.67','Mike','topdog04@optonline.net','http://www.topdog04.com','Casualties are those injured AND those killed, not just those killed. Look it up. They are two different numbers. For example, the US has around 500 casualties compared to 125 deaths. \r\nThe number of civilian deaths hovers around 2,000. However, the injured must be in the tens of thousands by now. Given all of the high powered, precision munitions we\'ve used, which can damage buildings hundreds of yards away simply from the concussion, I would be surprised if the number of casualties was not over 20,000.','2003-04-22 21:24:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2026,1,3357,'32.97.110.67','Mike','topdog04@optonline.net','http://dearraed.blogspot.com','Typo: Here is the correct link to Salam Pax\'s blog and an excerpt:\r\nToday before noon I went out with my cousin to take a look at the city. Two things. 1) the attacks are precise. 2) they are attacking targets which are just too close to civilian areas in Baghdad. Looked at the Salam palace and the houses around it. Quite scary near it and you can see widows with broken glass till very far off. At another neighborhood I saw a very unexpected “target” it is an officers’ club of some sorts smack in the middle of [………] district. I guess it was not severely hit because it was still standing but the houses around it, and this is next door and across the street, were damaged. One of them is rubble the rest are clearing away glass and rubble. A garbage car stands near the most damaged houses and help with the cleaning up.
','2003-04-22 21:30:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2027,1,3349,'24.43.27.16','Ted Belman','tedbelman@rogers.com','http://www.israpundit.blogspot.com','I like the idea. Opportunity to connect with a lot of good people.\r\n','2003-04-22 23:11:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2028,1,3359,'66.185.85.72','Hossein Derakhshan','hoder@hoder.com','http://hoder.com/weblog','Thank you guys for listing my weblog on your blogroll.','2003-04-22 23:53:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103806,1,9801,'72.183.109.82','Beard','the_beard7@yahoo.com','','bq. _The single most powerful predictor of party affiliation is children. People with children vote overwhelmingly republican and vice versa for democrats._ [brad culkin, #60]\r\n\r\nYou got data for this, brad? It\'s an interesting claim, and I\'m deeply skeptical of its truth, but you must have heard it somewhere. Provide a link, please. \"I heard it on the web\" doesn\'t provide a lot of credibility.\r\n\r\n','2007-10-07 02:38:57','2007-10-06 18:38:57',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2031,1,3349,'209.246.80.26','Artemis','artemis_hunter@earthlink.net','','Well, I had thought of it before October but maybe Oceanguy is right. Let\'s kick the idea around and see what comes up.','2003-04-23 01:57:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103794,1,9801,'67.188.247.150','brad culkin','bculkin@vsep.com','','\r\n\r\nThe single most powerful predictor of party affiliation is children. People with children vote overwhelmingly republican and vice versa for democrats. In light of the above, this makes a lot of sense.','2007-10-07 01:33:05','2007-10-06 17:33:05',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103800,1,9801,'70.240.243.175','David Ross','zimriel@sbcglobal.net','http://pages.sbcglobal.net/zimriel','Rome did, indeed, do fine as an Empire, survived its periods of decadence, and adapted Christianity to its needs.\r\n\r\nWhat made \"Rome fall\", as a Western Mediterranean concern, was the indifference of its citizen elites coupled with a devaluation of Roman citizenship.\r\n\r\nRoman citizenship was extended to the whole Mediterranean in 212 AD: the Constitutio Antoniniana. After that, there was no Rome; only \"Roman-ness\" (Romania). The primary interest of \"Romania\" was control of the Eastern Mediterranean; and when the Eastern Mediterranean became threatened by Persians and Balkan Goths, the \"Romanians\" who meant anything moved to Byzantium and renamed it \"Constantine City\". In the sixth century the now-Byzantines gave up on the West, and in the seventh they gave up on the Near East.\r\n\r\nThe equivalent here would be if we gave US citizenship to the whole of Latin America, and then voted (majority rule!) to move our capitol to Caracas. Not that the Bush administration would ever propose such a thing...','2007-10-07 01:53:56','2007-10-06 17:53:56',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103801,1,9802,'71.165.153.44','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Demo - nah, it\'s simple. People who are in it for the money need to so disclose. It\'s totally legit for me to point out that the MyDD crowd is working at building jobs for themselves; it\'s equally legit for alphie to point out that a particular ME commentator has been the recipient of significant US cash.\r\n\r\nWe can all read what they say enlightened by that...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2007-10-07 01:54:21','2007-10-06 17:54:21',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103799,1,9802,'71.163.145.21','Demosophist','demosophist-at-windsofchange-dot-net@nada.nix','http://windsofchange.net','People who take money to push a particular political agenda are a different matter.
\r\n\r\nWell, I guess that lets Kofi Annan\'s son off the hook. No one could argue that he had any agenda other than getting rich.\r\n\r\nBut seriously, Kos takes money to push a particular political agenda. Is that what you mean? How about the people running Moveon? I mean, they\'re against huge wealth disparity, yet they take nearly all of their money from a multi-billion-dollar financier. Is that what you mean?\r\n\r\nI guess you could same I\'m having a little trouble with your definitions.','2007-10-07 01:47:48','2007-10-06 17:47:48',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103807,1,9801,'4.232.99.237','Tom W.','trickcyclist5@yahoo.com','','\"Social justice.\" \r\n\r\nOne of the most sinister phrases in the English language.\r\n\r\nIt means \"We\'re going to destroy everything you hold dear.\" ','2007-10-07 03:06:50','2007-10-06 19:06:50',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103808,1,9801,'68.80.40.186','Dan S.','ll@ll.com','http://angryfuzzy.blogspot.com','Tom - \r\n\r\n\'Elites have long hated capitalism, and with a special destructive envy against the rich\"\r\n\r\nYou do realize how little sense this makes, right? I mean, I realize \"elite\" has taken on an very interesting tinge in rightwing discourse, where it sketches out a demon-figure combining both populist anger and culture-war/anti-intellectual resentment - but still, this just doesn\'t actually make sense.\r\n\r\n\"Whether it really helps the working poor or not, the poor are used as an excuse to punish the rich.\"\r\n\r\nNah. I mean, I realize \"Nah\" isn\'t the most sophisticated argument, but this just isn\'t true. Get to know actually people involved in \'social justice\' work, or otherwise advocating such things: whether or not you agree with their methods or even aims, it\'s all about helping those in need, and building a more just society - this fantasy that it\'s all just some big lie used to justify \'punishing the rich\' for its own sake- Nah.\r\n\r\n\"Too many Leftist elites are looking for Unreal Perfection \"\r\n\r\nNo doubt \'Unreal Perfection\' could have been used back in 1850 or so (by some, at least) to describe an future America where slavery is blessedly abolished, where women can become doctors or lawyers or scientists, where everyone - black or white, male or female - has the vote, and where it is entirely possible that our next President could be a black man or a white woman. But we got here, y\'know (and that\'s definitely something to be proud of). America\'s a work in progress.\r\n\r\nTom and Rick - you both mention Ward Churchill as if he was some major and well-supported figure on the \'left\' - (which in reality, of course, is hardly so: most of the figures described as such are actually fairly centrist liberals). Again, let me be honest: when folks started making a fuss about his moronic essay - several years after it had been written, which should already tell you something about his importance - most of us liberals and lefties had absolutely no idea who he was (in fact, I was initially rather bewildered for a few minutes, thinking that for some bizarre reason people were denouncing Winston Churchill). Many of his \'supporters\' were actually people who quite bluntly stated that he was an offensive idiot, and were involved only because they felt that nevertheless, free speech and academic inquiry had to be protected.\r\n\r\nAL : I think we agree on that first point. The second - well, I hope you\'re wrong.','2007-10-07 03:20:36','2007-10-06 19:20:36',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2034,1,3367,'65.94.120.229','Inscrutable American','inscrutableamerican@hotmail.com','http://inscrutable.news-portal.com','Works for me :)','2003-04-23 04:36:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2035,1,3366,'66.74.67.107','inkgrrl','kari@inkgrrl.com','http://www.inkgrrl.com/inkblog.htm','Happen to have a sorta-cute blonde category? *hint*','2003-04-23 04:58:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2039,1,3357,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','It has been my experience that Eastern Europeans and Russians tend to be more prone toward belief in crazy conspiracy theories. Ditto for Turks and Arabs. Yes, I\'ve heard it from Ph.D. science and engineering types from those places as well. It is incredible. \r\n\r\nThis tendency toward the belief in conspiracies is an obstacle in the democratization of those societies. It makes them low trust societies. They think governments are controlled by hidden conspiracies and hence do not take policy debates as seriously and do not feel as connected to their governments. \r\n\r\nThe belief in conspiracies retards the development of a civil society because people do not think they can have any impact on what their governments do. After all, if conspiracies run everything then what is the point of writing to elected representatives, working for campaigns, studying policy issues, or working for public interest groups?\r\n','2003-04-23 05:16:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2037,1,3359,'63.208.242.120','Bill Whittle','bill@ejectejecteject.com','http://www.ejectejecteject.com','I don\'t know what to say, other than I am deeply flattered and hope to be able to live up to your too-kind recommendation.','2003-04-23 05:06:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2038,1,3366,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Pictures? *hint* :-) Actually, we have quite a few categories coming up. Folks, Inkgrrls site deserves a look for its design alone.','2003-04-23 05:09:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2040,1,3357,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Ah, the Conspiracists\' Credo: \"Everything is controlled by a small evil group to which, unfortunately, no one we know belongs.\"\r\n\r\nI\'ve noted this trend in Eastern Europeans too. The fact that in the case of the French they were right may hinder efforts to change this tendency, however. :-)','2003-04-23 05:32:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2041,1,3357,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Here\'s a model that may help us get a handle on the \"Dream Palace\" phenomenon: memetic epidemics.\r\n\r\nSome societies are indeed more prone to this behaviour than others, and conspiracy theories have a more \"contagious\" environment there. There\'s also a societal correction factor, which we might define as the \"immune response capability\" or \"Fisk Factor.\" When contagiousness is high and immune responses are low, conspiracy memes can and do go epidemic quickly.\r\n\r\nMalcolm Gladwell may give us a way of getting a handle on the phenomenon, as most members of a society are really passive players in this little drama. As he notes in his book \"The Tipping Point\" and in some of his articles, the people who really matter are a sequence of:\r\n\r\n* Mavens - experts with credibility, who can communicate with laypeople);\r\n\r\n* Connectors - who take the Mavens\' memes and quickly spread them widely within and among social groups; and/or\r\n\r\n* Salesmen - master convincers. \r\n\r\nYou also have the choice of attacking contagious environments directly (drain standing puddles to remove mosquitoes), and/or building response and immunity capabilities (vaccinations and/or a system of readily available counter-medication).\r\n\r\nIf we work from that common framework, a number of potential strategies and approaches open up aimed at one or more of these nodes. Try it, use your imagination, and post your ideas!','2003-04-23 05:51:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2042,1,3362,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Here\'s a model that may help us get a handle on the \"Dream Palace\" phenomenon: memetic epidemics.\r\n\r\nSome societies are indeed more prone to this behaviour than others, and conspiracy theories have a more \"contagious\" environment there. There\'s also a societal correction factor, which we might define as the \"immune response capability\" or \"Fisk Factor.\" When contagiousness is high and immune responses are low, conspiracy memes can and do go epidemic quickly.\r\n\r\nMalcolm Gladwell may give us a way of getting a handle on the phenomenon, as most members of a society are really passive players in this little drama. As he notes in his book \"The Tipping Point\" and in some of his articles, the people who really matter are a sequence of:\r\n\r\n* Mavens - experts with credibility, who can communicate with laypeople);\r\n\r\n* Connectors - who take the Mavens\' memes and quickly spread them widely within and among social groups; and/or\r\n\r\n* Salesmen - master convincers. \r\n\r\nYou also have the choice of attacking contagious environments directly (drain standing puddles to remove mosquitoes), and/or building response and immunity capabilities (vaccinations and/or a system of readily available counter-medication).\r\n\r\nIf we work from that common framework, a number of potential strategies and approaches open up aimed at one or more of these nodes. Try it, use your imagination, and post your ideas!','2003-04-23 05:52:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2043,1,3366,'4.61.2.117','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Hey, \"sorta cute\"?? May I beg to differ (in most gentlemanly and well-intentioned way)...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-04-23 06:37:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2044,1,3357,'24.221.8.212','John Moore (Useful Fools)','unrealaddress@yahoo.com','http://www.tinyvital.com/blog/','During the height of the cold war, my father, a Professor of Engineering, was once visited by a number of his Russian colleagues in Lawrence, KS. These were all extremely well educated, very smart scientists who were members of the Academy of Sciences. My parents had a modest midwestern house a mile from the university.\r\n\r\nThe Russians decided that they were seeing a \"Potemkin Village\" - an illusion of comfort (opulence by their standards) put on to entertain them. They asked to see how people \"really\" lived. \r\n\r\nMy father took them for a ride and told them to direct his driving. When this was over they were quite mystified, because this Potemkin Village was huge - they couldn\'t find the war zones and horrible poverty that all of America was supposed to be filled with.\r\n\r\nThis is the power of the big lie form of propaganda.','2003-04-23 07:24:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2045,1,3365,'65.128.20.129','Bob','questmuzz9@aol.com','http://jacksoncannery.blogspot.com','Definitely glad that Winds of War is back - especially since I\'m looking at a picture of a Foxhound that the Australians found!','2003-04-23 07:59:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2046,1,3357,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','Joe, Curiously, the French are much more into conspiracy beliefs. \r\n\r\nBTW, Didn\'t Daniel Pipes once write a whole book on the conspiracy mindset, its causes, and the ramifications of that sort of mindset? ','2003-04-23 08:23:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2047,1,3357,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','I meant say: Curiously, the French are much more into conspiracy beliefs than most other Western European nations. ','2003-04-23 08:24:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2048,1,3369,'207.168.131.93','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Your friend and his wife were in a very hard situation. My sympathies to him and to you. Many people are disenchanted with traditional health care. Especialy in situations that are terminal. True, the path they chose turned out no different than it might have with traditional medical treatment, but it reminds me of a saying offered by my boss, \"the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over expecting a different result\" Your friends probably thought anything different had a better chance at a good outcome than to continue doing what everyone else was doing. I hope you will recall the good times you had with this woman. We should all think about how we will be remembered after we are gone, everyone has a chance each day to do something good for someone else. Peace,\r\nDave','2003-04-23 14:59:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2049,1,3365,'68.58.56.23','Jim Treacher','howy@do.ing','http://jimtreacher.blogspot.com','Be sure to check out Brian Perry\'s prank posters too:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.broadmesa.com/anti_war/','2003-04-23 15:00:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2050,1,3360,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Hmm, would be interested in calculations that led you to the 250,000/ 3 million figure. And what is the \"official\" figure now?\r\n\r\nLots of factors in play, from rate of infection from exposure (what %age of the tens of thousands?) to cure rate to spread. China is fertile ground because it\'s such a tightly packed society with questionable health care. I\'ve seen the \"Dark Winter\" bioterrorism scenarios, so I know these things can grow pretty fast... but some level of showing the reasoning would be helpful.\r\n\r\nYour analysis of the consequences is excellent - but that analysis depends on the level of severity of SARS in China. To save Trent the calculations, has anyone else seen anything like this already performed elsewhere? ','2003-04-23 15:08:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2051,1,3349,'137.187.153.202','Sarah','sm381j@nih.gov','','Bloggers only? or blog readers as well?','2003-04-23 15:14:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2052,1,3360,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net/','This UPI article gives a number of official figures, and also discusses the risks and whether SARS can be controlled in China.\r\n\r\nNumber of official cases in China apparently sits around 2,000. Hong Kong is probably a better bellweather, since the factors you mention as discouraging reporting don\'t apply nearly as strongly. They\'re at 1,500 cases, which may be underreported but probably not by a factor of 10. Take that and go through similarly exposed metroplitan populations, and I could see 25,000 cases... but not 250,000. At least, not right now.','2003-04-23 15:39:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2053,1,3360,'218.104.4.120','valchn','vsjohnso@excite.com','','After reading your blog I wondered if you and your readers were familliar with Chinese hospitals. Unfortunately I have much first hand experience. I\'m not saying this is the way all hospitals are run in China. But this is a combination of my experiences in the 6 or 7 hospitals I have been treated at. They are roughly all the same, depending upon their size. As you walk into the hospital the first thing you notice are the scores of people who are sitting in all of the waiting room chairs with IV drips in their arms. I don’t know how many people are in a score but tens seemed like too little and hundreds was too much. \r\n\r\nThe first thing to be done is to stand in a line to give the hospital my information. Then they give me a card and a booklet to be filled out by the doctor. I then line up at the window to pay to see the doctor. Next I take the receipt that shows I\'ve paid and line up to see the doctor. The doctor examines me and handwrites orders for an x-ray and to have blood samples taken. Then you guessed it, it is time to go and wait in line for blood to be taken…the person taking the blood doesn’t wear protective gloves or a mask…they put the samples in this state of the art machine and give you the data to take back to the doctor. Next it is off to the x-ray area to wait in line again. They have absolutely no precautions, no leaded vests, etc. and I’m surprised that anyone working there can have children. But the machine seems to be very modern as per the blood machine. Too bad I don’t know any technical terms, at least I didn’t call it a blood thingy. They give me the documentation of what they see, and back I go to wait in line to see the doctor. The doctor looks at everything and handwrites all of the orders for dispensing and administering the medication. Keep in mind that there are at least 10 of us packed into this little room…there is no privacy, no masks, no gloves, and the doctors don’t wash their hands in between patients. \r\n\r\nThe thermometer that is used under the arm is never washed. The first time I almost stuck it in my mouth. A quick grab by the doctor saved me. The other 40 who are waiting to see the overworked doctor are crowded around the outside of the door for their opportunity to push through to take a number, which is on the desk beside the doctor. It is all done by numbers not at all by who needs help the most. Nervous relatives are jockeying to place their loved one’s medical folder closest to the doctor. \r\n\r\nWhen the doctor is finished writing, off I go to wait in line to pay for the medicine from the Pharmacy. Then I take that receipt to the Pharmacy and wait in line to get the medicine. Then I go back to the doctor and she sends a nurse to mix the medicine and hook me up to the IV. Then it is just sit and wait for the four hours required to let it drip into my body.\r\n\r\nDuring this time I look around and see sons carrying their mothers and fathers, husbands carrying their wives, brothers carrying their sisters on their backs to get to the doctor. Wheelchairs and gurneys usually aren’t available. I’ve never seen anyone at the hospital alone. There isn’t such a thing as going to a doctor’s office like we would in the U.S. Most doctors work in the hospitals. \r\n\r\nIn some hospitals they have few patients and so they have you lay on a bed while the IV is dripping. The standard of cleanliness is that you use the same bed each time you come. This makes it so that only four or five people use the same sheets and pillow during the week. I’m not certain they are even cleaned after that unless they are soiled. Often the people who would wait with me would lie down on the empty beds. No matter how many times I’ve been stuck with a needle I’ve yet to see any of the medical personnel wear gloves…or wash their hands. \r\n\r\nOne rule of thumb never move the nightstand…it is sure to gross you out. Last time I moved one so I could set down my bowl of noodles. I learned the hard way that the medicine makes me throw up unless I eat. Behind the nightstand were old chopsticks and wrappers and some spilled food and a bunch of dust bunnies that had been breeding like crazy. The last room I was in also had a leak in the radiator and so it would send out a fine mist of oily water into the air and onto the floor. But the thing that strikes me the most is the restroom. Okay maybe not the most, I was pretty stricken with them taking off peoples’ clothes in front of the window where everyone walking past could see and with many other people in the room who were not medical personnel. But it rates right up there. \r\n\r\nEveryone carries toilet paper with them because most restrooms don’t provide it. Before walking into the restroom I always say ni hao, and wait, the people rarely shut the restroom doors because usually there aren’t any and in this hospital the restroom is used by both men and women. When I have assured myself that I won’t be embarrassed I walk in. The floor is usually wet, because they mop up whatever splashes outside of the squattie with a mop. (A squattie is a toilet that is an oblong porcelain bowl in the floor.) Disinfectant is not used and it is the same mop used since the hospital opened, so I tread carefully, I would not like any part of me other than the bottom of my shoes to touch this floor. I examine both stalls to see which one is less filthy. I open the plywood door and hang up the IV on the rusty nail. If any part of the room has been cleaned it has been years. There is a basket in the corner of the stall to put in the tissue. It is usually spilling over onto the floor. It is difficult to do the chore with a needle in one hand so I always try to wear what I call my hospital outfit, a jogging suit which suits the situation perfectly. Then it is off to wash the hands. There is a trough with a few metal spickets and no soap. So I do the best I can with the cold water and off I trot back to the bed. \r\n\r\nAll of that to say the sanitation practices in the hospitals are not conducive to preventing the spread of germs. Other habits that people hold which promote the spread of germs is the sanitation practices in restaurants (although the restrooms are usually a step higher than those in the hospital), the custom of everyone using their chopsticks to eat from the same dish, lack of sanitation concerns when it comes to the food supply, spitting everywhere...inside and outside...(it is bad for health to not do it), and blowing the nose into the hand and then giving the hand a quick shake to fling the offensive matter onto the ground. While walking or riding my bike I pay careful attention to how close I am to someone…you never know what might happen next. In the big cities they are trying to outlaw spitting in certain areas. I think it will be difficult for this country to control any type of infectious disease, unless there is intervention from up above.','2003-04-23 15:55:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2054,1,3360,'207.224.23.109','corsair the rational pirate','corsair@philben.net','http://corsair.blogspot.com','That was something nice to read while eating lunch. Thanks for more info than I will ever need as any plans I had to visit China have now been... Well, I was going to say \"flushed down the toilet\" but I guess that doesn\'t make sense in this situation.\r\n\r\nSo let me just end this with \"ewww\".','2003-04-23 16:27:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2055,1,3360,'144.183.226.2','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Joe,\r\n\r\nHong Kong and China\'s statistics are reported seperately by the WHO. Hong Kong has roughly as many \"official cases\" as the whole of mainland China. \r\n\r\nMain land China had SARS for _months_ before the first case appeared in Hong Kong. A two order of magnitude difference is the _minimum_ you can safely say SARS is being under reported in China.\r\n\r\nHong Kong is densly populated and has lots of sealed modern buildings, so SARS would spread more quickly there than in rural China.\r\n\r\nThe problem is Shang High (sp?) and most of coastal Guangdon province are just as densly populated and they have closed the schools for two weeks in Beijing to slow the spread of SARS.\r\n\r\nWhat does that suggest to you?\r\n\r\n','2003-04-23 16:27:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2056,1,3360,'63.200.107.174','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','Joe, official Chinese medical statistics aren\'t worth the electrons used to write them.\r\n\r\nThe 250k figure for China overall was my estimate based on recent Hong Kong statistics of 1k known there. SARS started in one part of south rural China, spread to nearby cities, went from there to other rural areas in south China, to other Chinese cities, and to Hong Kong. It was first officially reported by Western doctors in Hong Kong MONTHS AFTER IT STARTED SPREADING. By then it was all over cities in southern China and was out of control.\r\n\r\nI am familiar with the math from graphing potential smallpox epidemics. 250k is reasonable. I don\'t know where Trent gets his 3 million from, but we\'re at most two months away from that.\r\n\r\nIMO the crucial propaganda event would be cancellation of the Bejing Olympics because of an out of control SARS epidemic in China. If that happens, Trent\'s scenario is plausible.\r\n\r\nSARS is rapidly mutating into less lethal and more contagious types. IMO it will won\'t be a major threat, save to the immune-impaired, in about 12-18 months.\r\n\r\nBut this will happen over and over until China is effectively quarentined as Trent suggests. The world will be much safer if such newly developed diseases rattle around in China for the 12-18 months it takes to mutate into less lethal varieties.','2003-04-23 16:30:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2057,1,3349,'199.67.140.210','Larry','ljp99@yahoo.com','','As a blog reader too, Id be interested post Jan 2004.','2003-04-23 16:31:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2058,1,3360,'144.183.226.2','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','>I don\'t know where Trent gets his 3 million \r\n>from, but we\'re at most two months away from \r\n>that.\r\n\r\nTom,\r\n\r\nThe math works if you assume the Chinese are lying more extensively than anyone wants to admit. \r\n\r\nI don\'t think the index #1 case in the article who\'s Toranto Star link I dropped is really the first case.\r\n\r\nI think SARS was around a few months longer than that in the rural areas before the official index #1 case. \r\n\r\n','2003-04-23 17:24:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2059,1,3360,'12.252.137.93','B. Durbin','dex_lives@yahoo.com','http://dexlives.keenspace.com','valchn: A score is twenty. (\"Four score and seven years ago\" = eighty-seven years.) And randomly, a fortnight is two weeks, and a league is three miles.','2003-04-23 18:03:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2060,1,3360,'128.84.234.106','John Thacker','thacker@math.cornell.edu','','As a side note, airlines used to bring in new air on the airplanes, but don\'t anymore. Sure, it was expensive (that\'s why they stopped), but in the old days, they didn\'t have a choice. Why not? Because smoking was still allowed, and smoking made the quality of recycled air so bad that they had to bring in fresh air and heat it.','2003-04-23 20:15:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2061,1,3360,'170.65.128.6','Jack M','elharro@otmail.com','','Maybe I wasn\'t reading carefully enough...if SARS can only live 24 hours outside of the human body, can\'t you just park the plane on the other side of the airport for a few days rather than doing the biohazard cleaning?','2003-04-23 20:49:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2062,1,3360,'198.26.123.36','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','>...if SARS can only live 24 hours outside of the human...\r\n\r\nThe term used by the doctors is \"at least\" 24-hours.\r\n\r\nGiven the lack of knowledge on SARS, it may be possible that it can survive in airconditioning systems like Legionaire\'s Disease. ','2003-04-23 23:06:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2063,1,3368,'138.133.17.9','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Most of the LEO\'s I know (and I know about a dozen) think that the War on Drugs has become a farce. None of them would publicly acknowledge this, as it would be the Kiss of Career Death here in Los Angeles.\r\n\r\nBut they see the costs every day; and while there would surely be costs to legalization, I\'ve got to believe that - relative to the costs in official corruption, the funding of narcoterror in Latin America as well as our own cities (Why do you think gangs are so powerful? Because in controlling turf for drug sales, they are an incredibly powerful economic force. And because they control drug turf through violence, the most violent gangs are those that are economically rewarded), those costs would be bearable.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-04-23 23:18:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2064,1,3360,'129.198.241.62','Michael Walsh','walshm@antelecom.net','','China\'s one-child policy has produced the 200 million man army of the Apocalypse. SARS may be the impetus to stop trading with the West and start taking what is wanted by force?','2003-04-24 01:13:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2065,1,3360,'211.144.76.156','Mike Friedman','mfriedma@alum.mit.edu','','Can we all get real?\r\n\r\nFirst off, Trent, SARS is a virus, not a bacteria, like Legionaire\'s disease so it can\'t live anywhere except inside cells of a host organism. So fantasies about it setting up shop in an airconditioning system are just that - fantasies.\r\n\r\nNext, all the airlines flying to infected places have already announced that they are no longer recycling air. Think they are total idiots?\r\n\r\nNext, unless Mr. Valchn was way out in the boonies or dead broke his description of a Chinese hospital is ludicrous. All the major cities have high quality hospitals charging high quality prices. And any foreigner from a modern country who spends a significant amount of time in China but is unhealthy enough to need to go to a hospital frequently enough to become an expert is frankly an idiot.\r\n\r\nFinally, no one is going to abandon trans-pacific routes or stop using Chinese shipping containers. The most that might possibly happen is replacing all the seat covers, etc. Sterilizing the planes is idiotic because anyone going to / coming from SARS infected areas will be / was exposed anyway. Sterilizing or not using containers is totally unnecessary because a ship from Shanghai or Yantian to Long Beach takes (if I remember correctly) 2 weeks, ample time for the SARS virus to die.','2003-04-24 01:27:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2066,1,3280,'66.20.96.194','Gary','garyd1@bellsouth.net','http://www.electgarylicksheriff.com','I would like to ask Martin Savidge about the where abouts is the marine he intervieved and was embedded with named Kyle?\r\nI would like to kbow if he is safe or did something happen to him?\r\nI noticed he was no longer seen as the end was neer to taking Bagdad!\r\nPlease emeail me and let me Know!\r\nthanks\r\nGary Lick\r\nVicksburg, Ms\r\nPS\r\nI would also like Martin Savidge\'s email address','2003-04-24 01:51:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103793,1,9802,'71.165.153.44','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','alphie - actually, I agree very strongly with the letter; patriotism is about loving the country you are a part of (one reason I hate the fanboy simile is that fans are not part of a team; they watch, the team plays) - even if you see ways to improve it - rather than holding out for the country you imagine you want. \r\n\r\nI\'ll play with that a bit...\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2007-10-07 01:13:50','2007-10-06 17:13:50',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2068,1,3360,'68.165.41.105','E. Nough','e.nough@NOSPAM.mail.com','http://thinkingmeat.blogspot.com','Mike, Mr. Valchn may very well be native Chinese, who happens to have lived in the U.S. for a bit.\r\n\r\nBut more to the point, it makes no difference that foreigners and VIPs in China have access to proper medical care. The majority of the people do not; many in the rural areas lack access even to the abysmal hospitals that Valchn describes. His point is that ordinary Chinese hospitals (and many other places) are breeding grounds and transmission hotbeds for the virus, which is not at all surprising.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-24 03:58:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103792,1,9802,'71.163.145.21','Demosophist','demosophist-at-windsofchange-dot-net@nada.nix','http://windsofchange.net','Jim:\r\n\r\nThe more diverse we are, with immigrants (particularly those who are not forced to cut ties to the distant, unreachable home country) dominating, the less patriotism we will have, given Putnam\'s conclusions. Which so far no social scientist has been able to refute.
\r\n\r\nCan\'t recall the print citation, but I\'ve heard Lipset refute Putnam pretty effectively... not only in terms of the Bowling Alone thesis itself, but that he apparently pulled some of his data out of thin air. I also heard him make essentially the same arguments to Nathan Glazer\'s defense of \"the lonely crowd\" thesis.\r\n\r\nThe US has always had far more \"associational life\" than nearly all European nations, in spite of the fact that we\'ve no coherent ethnicity of our own to fall back on. What we have, in its stead, is a set of principles expressed in the documents and correspondences of the founding, that amount to a common ideology established on Lockean principles: religious sectarianism, anti-statism, egalitarianism (of opportunity). It\'s strange that these would establish stronger bonds than bonds of common ancestry or even class, but we\'ve two hundred plus years of history to prove that they can.\r\n\r\nNot that there hasn\'t always been a challenge.\r\n\r\nOne of the keys to understanding what \"American\" means is the almost unique notion of the \"un-American.\" No other national identity has such a notion. And although there\'s bound to be some disagreement, most of us know perfectly well what \"un-American\" means, even though it involves the paradox that only an American can be un-American. It\'s John Walker Lindh.','2007-10-07 01:04:03','2007-10-06 17:04:03',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2070,1,3360,'4.46.89.151','Donovan Janus','donovan@dajanus.com','','According to a special aired by CNN a few night ago, SARS is not airborne, and more importantly, requires close physical contact with a person carrying the virus to contract it as well (hence the fact that so many health workers in China have it).\r\n\r\nStill seems like more of a local problem to me, rather than a global.','2003-04-24 04:32:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2071,1,3360,'67.116.52.237','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','CNN said SARS is not airborne? Well I\'m relieved to hear that from a reliable source. ','2003-04-24 04:46:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2072,1,3360,'67.121.244.149','David Vasquez','davidvasquez@sbcglobal.net','','\"seems like more of a local problem to me...\" - Donovan Janus\r\n\r\n4,400 people infected in 26 countries is a local problem?\r\n\r\nHere are some hard numbers for you to chew on:\r\n\r\nCountry: Cases, Deaths, Recovered\r\n-------------------------------------------\r\nChina: 2,305, 106, 1231\r\nHong Kong: 1,458, 105, 522\r\nCanada: 324, 15, 129\r\nSingapore: 186, 17, 110\r\nVietnam: 68, 5, 53\r\nUSA: 39, 0, 0 \r\nTaiwan: 38, 0, 21\r\n\r\nplus 19 other countries...\r\n\r\nSource: http://www.msnbc.com/news/885653.asp?0ct=-30h\r\n\r\nBy the way, the fatality rate has risen from 4% to 5.9%.\r\n','2003-04-24 05:07:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2073,1,3360,'67.121.244.149','David Vasquez','davidvasquez@sbcglobal.net','','\"All the major cities [in China] have high quality hospitals\" - Mike Friedman\r\n\r\nYou sound more like a propaganda spokesman for the discredited Chinese health ministry than someone with an informed opinion.\r\n\r\nMy wife is from Shenyang, the capital city of Liaoning Province (42 million people), and as an assistent nurse in one of their hospitals, she saw many of the same conditions described by Mr. Valchn, including lack of sterile equipment and gloves, bringing your own toilet paper to the restroom, used toilet paper sitting in baskets (I still gently remind her once in a while to flush used toilet paper down the toilet instead of throwing it in the basket), and doctors not washing hands between patients.\r\n\r\nAnd yes, the thermometer story is likely true - my wife bought a thermometer the other day and nearly fainted when I tried to stick it under my tongue - she explained that thermometers are not always cleaned between uses, and are only used under the arm or in the rectum.\r\n\r\nAs for the dirty restroom floors in the hospital, that is also quite believable - my wife has a custom of having separate shoes for each room, to avoid tracking what is in one room into another - a practice that I believe she learned due to living with dirty floors. Many Chinese people have an extreme aversion to putting their bare feet on the floor, and it\'s for a good reason - I doubt this is genetic.\r\n\r\nMike, you are grossly mis-informed if you think the hospitals in China are modern and clean.','2003-04-24 05:37:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2074,1,3357,'203.151.8.41','Eye Opener','okay@knu2.com','','re: Wretchard, Dave, Dean, ArmedLiberal...\r\n\r\nComing late to THIS discussion allows me to observe and comment: 1)I\'ve observed several very intelligent comments; 2)many of them documenting the lack of congruence between [Arab, for example] SOME opinion/viewpoint/belief AND [SOME] outwardly ascertainable \'objective\' reality.\r\n\r\nMy perceptual set leads me to side with those who choose the \'objectively verifiable reality\', WITH THIS PROVISO, and one which my perusal of previous postings did NOT find:\r\n\r\n\"What WILL you accept as proof?\"\r\n\r\nSometimes this question, asked EARLY in a discussion, will elicit a meaningful response, a response which leads BOTH (ALL) parties in the enquiry to a mutually-acceptable description of reality... while accepting that ALL descriptions are \'maps\' which more-or-less accurately depict the actual \'reality\' *whatever it is* !!\r\n\r\nSometimes, however, this question reveals what is revealed here, in a great number of posts: What will you accept as proof? \"Nothing!\" or \"If and only if MY FRIENDS come to me telling me its as YOU say...\" or \"Only if the Hand of God writes it across the sky... (read: \"Nothing!\")\"\r\n\r\nThat we live in a western society where, since before we were born, our \'leaders\' told us \"Christ did NOT return at the time and in the manner He promised, because that worked out to the Year of the Great Expectation, now known as 1844, and He didn\'t come as WE wanted THEREFORE He didn\'t come... but He will... at some unspecified, hazy future point somewhere... SO until then, DO AS WE CLERICS SAY...\" \r\n\r\nAnd in THIS manner, the untrustworthiness of the western, \'Judeao-Christian\' ethic is remarkably similar to the cleric-centered ravings of Islamicists, who acknowledge their Sacred Scriptural prophecies about the Holy One Who was to come in the Year 1260 AH (1844 CE) BUT... when He did come, the clerics had him shot by 750 Christian-Armenian riflemen at pointblank range, July 9th, 1850. And, when THAT didn\'t kill Him, they had to do it again, that same day, using 750 Muslim riflemen... and that DID kill Him...\r\n\r\nSo see? they claim, He was not the Promised One, and His resting-place on Mount Carmel doesn\'t mean anything, and His teachings about the oneness of all humanity doesn\'t include US, because we are Muslims, and we believe our clergy... \r\n\r\n...And after 159 years of this scoffing and denial, those \'Muslim\' nations are in a significantly dysfunctional, dysjunctive and non-congruent \'reality\', of their own making...\r\n\r\nWhat will YOU accept as proof?\r\n\r\nThat\'s a real Eye Opener!','2003-04-24 06:13:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2075,1,3371,'68.160.246.184','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Joe, thanks for the link. I added a few choice thoughts.\r\n\r\nI\'m going to indulge in a brief racist moment which is very unlike me, but it\'s late: I sometimes wonder if there is an Arab gene which predisposes one to utter credulity in the face of really dumb conspiracy theories. If so, the Jews could indeed distinguish between themselves and the arabs genetically, because we sure don\'t have that one.\r\n\r\nWell, it\'s a fantasy. Some of us believe the Lubovitcher rebbe is the messiah, so obviously we have credulity genes too. Darn.\r\n\r\nOkay, back to your regularly scheduled programming.','2003-04-24 07:20:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2076,1,3357,'68.160.246.184','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Just FYI:\r\n\r\nAfter about 4 of Chuck\'s posts I started skimming past them, because there were too many of them and they were all cluttered with fake \"memo\"-type headings and stilted verbal style. \r\n\r\nA word to the wise: just because you post a lot doesn\'t mean you\'re going to get read.\r\n','2003-04-24 07:41:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2077,1,3349,'68.160.246.184','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','I am involved with many Jewish orgs here in NYC that sponsor \"solidarity trips\" to Israel all the time, but so far I haven\'t taken the time and money to go. \r\n\r\nSomehow the idea of going with a buncha bloggers seems more appealing, maybe because I\'d be hanging out with folks I don\'t see every day. It would be nice to meet Tal and Imshin and Gil.','2003-04-24 07:50:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2078,1,3371,'152.163.189.131','button','button@nospam.com','','There is a pretty widespread confusion around the Arab Middle East revolving around the issue of social community and the implications of the concept of the Ummah. It\'s my impression that this confusion was deliberately seeded and encouraged by the Nazi refugees who settled into the region. He doesn\'t explain how the weapon will address the Arabs who are Druse, Bahai, Syrian Orthodox, Coptic Christian, Samaritan, etc. This stems from the Nazis designating the Jehovah Witnesses a genetic grouping with their peculiar circular argument. I start getting a headache from this.\r\n\r\nHey, Aziz dear, someone\'s been pulling your leg and filling your head with nonsense.','2003-04-24 08:18:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2079,1,3371,'68.62.130.159','Robin Goodfellow','aeglos@dualboot.net','http://aeglos.blogspot.com/','Rediculous beyond rediculousness. The diaspora and countless conversions make any genetic distinction between \"Jews\" and \"non-Jews\" nigh unto useless. Especially considering that the bigest enemy of the Jews (and of Israel) are arabs, and Jews are essentially genetically identical to them. It\'s no mere coincidence that the term \"semetic\" applies to many non-Jews as well as Jews.','2003-04-24 10:02:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103791,1,9802,'71.231.123.210','alphie','gmplayer@hotmail.com','http://alphavictim.blogspot.com/','A.L.,\r\n\r\n\"Here\":http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YWZlNTg2ZmQ1MmExMDhjYjc4NTc5NmUxY2IzZDI3NWY= is the Corner letter.\r\n\r\nM. Simon,\r\n\r\nToday\'s commercial airliners are based on Nazi-developed technology. But flying on a jet is rarely a political stateent, is it?\r\n\r\nPeople who take money to push a particular political agenda are a different matter.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2007-10-07 01:00:52','2007-10-06 17:00:52',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2083,1,3349,'134.114.63.99','Levy','israeliguitar@hotmail.com','http://not up yet','I\'d definetly go..:)\r\n\r\n!!!!\r\n\r\n-Levy','2003-04-24 11:57:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2084,1,3349,'80.178.41.53','Allison','allisonks@hotmail.com','http://www.allisonkaplansommer.blogspot.com','\r\nParty at my house!\r\n\r\nSeriously, if this becomes a reality, I can help with the logistics on this end. With the tourism slump in Israel, this is a time when a trip can be done extremely affordably if it is planned correctly.\r\n\r\nAllison','2003-04-24 12:35:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2085,1,3360,'64.91.161.77','iceman','nospamnospam@softhome.net','','I read somewhere on the net on how you can get the airlines to turn on the airpacs (airpacs are units that heat fresh outside air) this units cost a lot of money and fuel to run and airlines have been shutting them off to save money and have been doing this for years.\r\n\r\ninsist that all the airpacs be turned on so that the maximun about of fresh air comes into the passenger cabin.\r\n\r\nnote that the pilots get maximum fresh air to maintain alertness.\r\n\r\nyou will be able to tell by smelling the air coming in the vents above the seats.\r\n\r\nask the cabin attendants if all the airpacs are turned on and have a crew member come out and confirm that all the airpacs are turned on.\r\n\r\nTell them that you have a breathing condition and need fresh air and you are worried about the SARS virus as well as others\r\n\r\nYou will be able to notice the fresh air immediately.\r\n\r\nIf they wont do it then tell them you are going to ask for an oxygen bottle. They will not want you sitting there with an oxygen bottle so they will usually turn it on.\r\n\r\nThere are many other diseases that are spread in the airlines confined spaces and recirculated air makes this worse.\r\n','2003-04-24 12:46:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2086,1,3369,'164.107.69.50','Sartorius','abwinkler@columbus.rr.com','http://bfm.iasis.net','Your friends probably thought anything different had a better chance at a good outcome than to continue doing what everyone else was doing.\r\n\r\nThe problem is that \'everyone else was doing\' the standard therapies because they work better than everything else.\r\n\r\nHarsh though it sounds, it appears your friend and his wife put their faith in \"new age\" alternative remedies - and suffered the consequences.\r\n','2003-04-24 14:00:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2087,1,3371,'143.111.216.115','Aziz','azizhp@com.yahoo','http://unmedia.blogspot.com','\r\nHi friends,\r\n\r\nin my defense, I did not say I absolutely believed that Israel is currently manufacturing \"WMG\". But i do believe that it isnt entirely outside the bounds of possibility that Israel is *researching* them. They may well turn out to be impossible, but using mitochondrial DNA I could in theory design a genetic weapon that kills only my own imediate family. That\'s far more specific than the Jew-Arab genetic similarity. So such a weapon is indeed *possible*.\r\n\r\nForget if its possible. The issue I raised in my post is, why would Israel even *consider* it? Im not convinced 100% but I do think there is a high probabilty that it has been considered. \r\n\r\nDo I fear a Israeli WMG? no. even if they had one, I doubt it woudl be much of a threat to teh world (i dont lose much sleep over the US nuclear arsenal either). But given the unique history of teh Jewish people, mere consideration of the idea is monstrous and I am disappointed that amongst all eth critiques I have earned for my post, a denunciation of the concept has not been consistently put forth. \r\n\r\nI agree that WMG are very difficult. I dont agree they are impossible. DO you agree that it\'s monstrous? if so, then we seem to be at again a respectful detent. The implication of this WoF change post unfortunately is that I have an anti-semitic tendency which is indeed libel. \r\n\r\nI mean no disrespect and I hold all of you in the highest regard. ','2003-04-24 14:06:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2088,1,3371,'164.107.69.50','Sartorius','root@localhost.com','','The issue I raised in my post is, why would Israel even *consider* it?\r\n\r\nOh, perhaps the fact that they\'re surrounded by sick, delusional barbarians, all of whom happen to belong to more or less the same ethnic group.\r\n\r\nSomething like that.\r\n\r\nI somehow doubt that the IDF is willing to invest money in researching the obviously impossible, however... not to mention the fact that Israel has no interest in genocide.','2003-04-24 14:29:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2089,1,3371,'206.190.18.23','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','What proof is there that Israel is even considering such a weapon? Is it table talk in the government? The Israeli street? Idle speculation in Israel? What?\r\n\r\nSecond question. Has any money been invested in the project or is it just a dream?','2003-04-24 14:41:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2090,1,3371,'130.76.32.15','Eric','eric@randomtree.org','http://www.randomtree.org/eric/','They may well turn out to be impossible, but using mitochondrial DNA I could in theory design a genetic weapon that kills only my own imediate family. That\'s far more specific than the Jew-Arab genetic similarity. So such a weapon is indeed *possible*.\r\n\r\nThis is a non-sequitir, Aziz. There\'s no way to go from that extremely specific difference to a more general one that picks out \"Arab\" vs \"Jew\" -- especially given the numbers of Arab Jews. There is no genetic change whatsoever when one converts to Judaism.\r\n\r\nImagine a pair of identical twins, born to an Arab mother. One grows up and becomes a Jew; the other grows up to be a Muslim. There is no genetic difference between the two (identical twins are generated from the same egg and the same sperm, and thus are identical genetically), and thus no way for a biological weapon to target one and miss the other.\r\n\r\nWhile there will be some slight differences between two unrelated Arabs, none of those differences will allow you to determine the person\'s religion. There is simply no way to use genetics to determine that -- and Judaism is not a racial makeup or a genetic grouping, it\'s a religion (and culture).\r\n\r\nThis particular attempt to envision a Passover for the 21st century doesn\'t do much except display a sad lack of understanding of genetics, I\'m afraid.','2003-04-24 14:47:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2091,1,3360,'216.190.135.247','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','>First off, Trent, SARS is a virus, not a \r\n>bacteria, like Legionaire\'s disease so it can\'t \r\n>live anywhere except inside cells of a host \r\n>organism. So fantasies about it setting up shop \r\n>in an airconditioning system are just that - \r\n>fantasies.\r\n\r\nYou have a distinct point. You caught me out with fuzzy thinking.\r\n\r\nBe that as it may, the issue with SARS is what we don\'t know, what we suspect about it, and how we are going to act on that knowledge. \r\n\r\nIt is suspected but _not known_ that SARS is another Chinese multi-species disease caused by Chinese agricultural practices that put people, birds, pigs and fish and the waste products of them all in close proximity.\r\n\r\nIf true, that makes SARS a multi-species disease. Just which species does SARS infect besides humans? Bacteria?!? (I sure as hell hope not) That has a direct impact on how we deal with the disease. \r\n\r\nThe Chinese are in charge of that investigation and we know they are lying for maximum internal political advantage.\r\n\r\nWe also known disease producing agriculture (the USA is not without sin here) combined with poor cultural hygene and rapid air transportation turns any nation with that combination into a \"Typhoid Mary Nation.\"\r\n\r\nThat is the real problem with China. How is the rest of the world going to treat China if it will not change to deal with this problem?\r\n\r\n','2003-04-24 14:47:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2092,1,3371,'164.107.69.50','Sartorius','root@localhost.com','','What proof is there that Israel is even considering such a weapon? Is it table talk in the government?\r\n\r\n\r\nNone whatsoever. That\'s why Aziz\'s position is so shameful.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-24 14:51:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2093,1,3371,'4.61.2.117','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Aziz -\r\n\r\nWhat would be a productive addition to the discussion would be some direct research on the issue of \"Are the Israelis trying to do ______\" beyond recycling a 1998 article that was never picked up, expanded, or verified in any way. That one article has served at the root \'fact\' to support a hundred thousand or so citations, and the fact that we\'re even discussing it would be somewhat amusing to me were the subject not so serious.\r\n\r\nRumors aren\'t facts; they may lead you to them, but it\'s damn dangerous to act like they were.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-04-24 14:53:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2094,1,3371,'143.111.216.115','Aziz','azizhp@com.yahoo','http://unmedia.blogspot.com','AL< youre right, the issue isnt enough to base an entire topic of disucssion on. In fact, I didnt - if you look at my original post, youll see that it was in the context of broader questions about WMD in the Middle east. I\'ve replied to this oF post on my blog and there I have re-raised the actual points i was trying to to make. I regret bringing up WMG at all. \r\n\r\nGiven that you are interested in a debate on issues of real substance rather than (what I agree with you as) the fallacious issue of WMG, would you address those questions?','2003-04-24 15:31:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2095,1,3371,'12.23.2.98','Diana Moon','prairie_moon@earthlink.net','','and perhaps even more alarmingly, Israel has been developing what can only be called a Weapon of Mass Genocide (WMG) - a bioweapon targeted at Arabs which would leave Jews unaffected:\r\n\r\nAziz, the above is a direct quote from the referenced post, currently in contention. You now say that the issue of Weapons of Mass Genocide is \"fallacious.\" \r\n\r\nSAY WHAT??\r\n\r\nHow can you call \"fallacious\" what you flat out stated in your post that Israel IS developing these weapons?\r\n\r\nFirst I want an answer on that, then I will get to other issues about Joe\'s post, and some of the comments here, that bother me.\r\n\r\nBut first I want Aziz to respond to me.','2003-04-24 15:49:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2096,1,3349,'12.23.2.98','artemis','artemis_hunter@earthlink.net','','Bloggers, blog-readers, anyone who wants. \r\n\r\nAnd my idea is that it could be pretty free-form. We\'d go together and leave together but people could split up and do their thing if they feel like it.\r\n\r\nI like to hike, for example, and want to go on some SPNI (Society for the Protection of Nature in Israel hikes). That might not be other people’s cup of joe. But I’d love company and they aren’t giving English-language hikes anymore as a result of the damn matsav so it would be fun to have another English-speaker with me. (Or maybe an Israeli volunteer?) You can just show up that day, you don\'t have to reserve.\r\n\r\nMy idea is that we start out somewhere, say Tel Aviv, hit the major spots at certain points and do what we want in between.\r\n\r\nSpread the meme and email me. I\'m happy to be the email coordinator of the idea. \r\n','2003-04-24 15:56:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2097,1,3371,'4.61.2.117','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Aziz:\r\n\r\nHere\'s a proposal (I\'m out the door to my friend\'s funeral, so it will have to wait until the weekend): If, as you say, you agree that the WMG issue is fallacious, I think a lot of the pressure would come off of you if you\'d take that position publicly on your site. I\'m interested in exploring the issue of Israel\'s WMD and WMD in the Middle East in general, and would be happy to have a dialog site-to-site with you on that. My own thoughts and feelings are somewhat clouded on the issue, and so it\'s probably a good thing to have to write about.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-04-24 15:58:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2098,1,3371,'143.111.216.115','Aziz','azizhp@com.yahoo','http://unmedia.blogspot.com','\r\nThat seems fair, Diana/AL. I wasnt careful enough. Ive uopdated the original post and documented the change.','2003-04-24 16:08:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2099,1,3360,'129.112.109.250','Iagofest','iagofest@angelfire.com','','Trent,\r\n\r\nDon\'t worry about the SARS virus infecting bacteria. Those types of viruses are known as bacteriophages or phages and are completely harmless to humans. There\'s no way a phage could jump from bacteria to humans. Fowls or pigs to humans is a much shorter leap. If SARS were bacterial, it would be much easier to treat (with antibiotics). An antiviral has to be specific for the virus unlike broad spectrum antibiotics.','2003-04-24 16:15:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2100,1,3371,'143.111.216.115','Aziz','azizhp@com.yahoo','http://unmedia.blogspot.com','\r\nclarification - I meant that the assertion that Israel HAS a WMG is fallacious. I agree that WMG are very difficult. I dont agree they are impossible. Therefore I do take teh Wired story seriously. \r\n\r\nIve updated the original WMG/WMD in teh ME post and also the response post to this WoF post. ','2003-04-24 16:22:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2101,1,3371,'143.111.216.115','Aziz','azizhp@com.yahoo','http://unmedia.blogspot.com','\r\none more coment:\r\n\r\n\"Imagine a pair of identical twins, born to an Arab mother. One grows up and becomes a Jew; the other grows up to be a Muslim. There is no genetic difference between the two (identical twins are generated from the same egg and the same sperm, and thus are identical genetically), and thus no way for a biological weapon to target one and miss the other.\"\r\n\r\ntrue. Whats th erelevance? a WMG woudl target ethnicity but be deployed regionally. If the Jewsish Arab lives next door to his Muslim Arab brother in Damascus, he\'s dead. \r\n\r\nIf he lives in Tel Aviv, he\'s fine. Your argument applies equally well to nukes. ','2003-04-24 16:24:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2102,1,3371,'207.168.131.226','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','When I first read this I thought it might be a lampoon. I love the html tags
Aziz\'s only attempt to establish the validity of the story is to research its technical feasibility. Why? What is implied is that if its feasible, Aziz is going to automatically believe that Israel is working on it.
And that is the best evidence for Aziz\'s pull toward anti-semitism in my opinion.','2003-04-25 23:33:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2190,1,3377,'64.105.208.197','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://blastersblog.blogspot.com','Conspiracies are odd things. \r\n\r\nOne of the main ways they spring up is in the void of real information. \r\n\r\nPeople will make up stuff to fill the voids. \r\n\r\nSecrecy creates voids - intentionally.\r\n\r\nLike the whole thing about the Roswell incident. People said, look, they are covering something up. For decades, they (the Air Force) said, no, we\'re not covering anything up. Just a mistake, a weather balloon all along. And then they said, whoa, waitaminute, we were covering something up, it was a detection program. But we are telling the truth now.\r\n\r\nThen there are the just wack theories, like the Roosevelt/ Truman/ Eisenhower/ Kennedy/ Johnson/ Nixon/ Reagan/ Bush/ Clinton/ Bush (never seen it attributed to Carter) secret executive order that will cancel the elections and round everyone up that doesn\'t believe in the New World Order to put them in reeducation camps. \r\n\r\nThe CIA and other government agencies get hit on both sides. First, they have covered up things in the past. And if they have to keep secrets, they really can\'t refute the crazy stuff. Like the crack cocaine stuff.\r\n\r\nWhat is even stranger is that conspiracy like this is not a sign of inbred trailer parkness. I have seen a study that among African Americans, belief that AIDS was a CIA plot to kill the black man increased with education. I knew an African American Ph.D. who believed, really believed, that Newt Gingrich had Ron Brown\'s plane shot down because he was a black man in a powerful position. \r\n\r\nNot to mention the stuff our Arab friends believe to be true. \r\n\r\nAnd the worst part about the conspiracies is that the lack of evidence is just further proof of the conspiracy - why else would there be so little evidence than someone cleaning up behind?\r\n\r\nI guess my answer is I have no idea how to combat big lie propaganda. Education seems to make it worse. \r\n\r\nConfronting the believers just gets you tagged as part of the conspiracy, or brainwashed by the media which is part of the conspiracy.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-25 23:34:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2191,1,3370,'217.224.236.159','leo','antisemitismusstreit@gmx.de','http://www.antisemitismusstreit.tk/','Good point to bring up the PTSD-drugs link. I\'ve also thought about the WoT-WoD interferences and noted someting else. While 20% of world population are Muslim, only 20% of Muslim are Arab - most are Asian. Remember that, before 9/11, Colin Powell said that Afghanistan could only be dealt with in the broader context of a South Asia policy? \r\n\r\nOil cartelization is just one leg of terrorism. The finances of Al-Qaeda-affiliates like Abu Sayyaf don\'t rely on religious oil revenues abuse, but drug trafficking income instead, and Asia is not less shaped by the drugs than the Middle East is by the oil. If defeating Al Qaeda means liberating the states it hijacked or is impending to control, and searing dictatorship requires dismissing artifical profit margin expansion of their main export articles, then this could provide some idea of the behind-the-horizon political implications of the WoT. \r\n\r\nDrug prohibition was established after Wilsonianism failed after WWI, it could have some logic that it might be abandoned after Wilsonianism was picked up again after 9/11. From my vista as a dissident in Old Europe, I never understood why Americans do practice two so differing policies on two so similiar \"How much should the state restrict the market\"-issues like drugs and guns. ','2003-04-26 00:24:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2192,1,3370,'206.190.18.233','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Good point on the terrorist/drug connection.\r\n\r\nHere is possibly why the US is addicted to prohibition. Clue: follow the money.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.narconews.com/narcodollars1.html \r\nhttp://www.narconews.com/narcodollars2.html \r\nhttp://www.narconews.com/narcodollars3.html\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-04-26 01:42:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2193,1,3370,'66.41.150.17','Guy Hall','cdguy@attbi.com','','As a drug and alcohol counselor, I agree wholeheartedly with pain being the main cause of alcoholism and chemical dependency. PTSD is but an extreme example of the pain that alcoholics and drug addicts suffer. For many of my clients, abuse both phyisical and emotional was the means used to teach them destructive beliefs. The more \"energy\" used in the abuse, the more pain carried into adulthood. Consequently, that results in more \"energy\" needed to overcome those beliefs.\r\nOh, and the one emotional pain that I see? Shame.....whether it be men or women, it is shame that routinely surfaces as the undelying pain being covered up with drugs/alcohol. Women who suffered incest speak more about the pain they felt when, after the deed was done, they got the look of scorn and disgust from their father.','2003-04-26 03:08:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2194,1,3366,'81.5.146.53','Perry de Havilland','pdeh@NOSPAMsamizdata.net','http://samizdata.net/blog','You need to add Samizdata.net:\r\n\r\nLiberty: We are all for it. To the point of obsession.\r\n\r\nDiscovery: We once revealed to the world that our currently-on-sabatical contributor Natalija looks very fetching in a low cut dress. And Adriana is pretty hot too and has been known to wear see-through tops to blogger bashes... that was quite a discovery, I can tell you!\r\n\r\nHumanity: Yum. Tastes like chicken.\r\n\r\nVictory: Oh yeah! We are the pro-victory libertarians who SCARE PEOPLE we like victory so much.','2003-04-26 03:20:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2195,1,3371,'67.10.61.104','VoiceOfReason','tooscared@fearyouguys.com','','I can\'t believe I bothered to read as much of this mess as I have. You people attacked Aziz without so much as bothering to look into the facts of the issue, didn\'t you? A moments hunt through pubmed.org will show you that the British Medical Association (you know, those crazy anti-semetic science fiction doctors) made a formal announcement of the possibility of, and their desire to curtail the development of, genetic weapons of mass destruction (including, \'ethnic bullets\') in 1999. Serious discussion of the realities of this particular brand of WMD has since been linked (in the medical literature) to discussions centered on the problems of modern biological warfare.\r\n\r\nThe 1998 article from the UK stated Israel *may* be developing such a weapon. Oddly enough, this idea *may* have been reinforced by the fact that, around this time, South Africa revealed that they had been working on genetically targeted weapons and had working relationships with Israeli scientists.\r\n\r\nI\'m not leaving my email address, I certainly don\'t need to be attacked by this army of blood thirsty morons (nor have I the time to field such attacks). But hopefully this seed of knowledge will be read by one of you dolts so that you can look back and see how hysterically funny it is when you violently REACT without out of pure IGNORANCE.\r\n\r\nI hope at least one of you (maybe the host of this blog?)is big enough to apologize to Aziz, who was pretty nice about the whole thing! I\'m sure the rest of you will attack me without even looking into the issue at all. How very ... liberal?\r\n\r\n=)\r\n\r\n','2003-04-26 05:43:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2196,1,3360,'218.62.33.98','Mark','markradigan@yahoo.com','','Just for some info, I live in Northern China (ChangChun) right now. At the hospital the beds are not changed between patients, they did wear gloves and used a new needle when they took my blood, no thick lead vest protection when I got an X-ray (Do those things even help?),there are multiple people in the room waiting for the doctor while she is working on you, yes, everyone does carry toilet paper because there is none and it is put into a little basket next to the squater, and the first time I have ever seen (smelled) them use disinfectant anywhere was this Tuesday (April 22nd?) I assume because of SARS.','2003-04-26 07:19:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2197,1,3305,'12.254.47.78','Mr Soze','tr_34_gunaydin@hotmail.com','','I would like to point out couple things. \r\nFirst President of the USA KNEW that there was weapons of mass destruction and funny think he ALSO KNEW THAT IRAQ WAS THE SECOND COUNTRY HAD THE MOST OIL IN MIDDLE EAST. Well anyway they have FREED the iraqi people but the funny thing there iz a BIG BILL FOR IRAQ for about 400 billion :) But how the iraqis are gonna pay that oh let me think they have all the oil why don\'t you give to USA. Oh I almost forgot where are those CHEMICAL WEAPONS hahaha. Who can guaranty that USA is not gonna use their nukes against any other country like they did to JAPAN. It\'s in USA\'s history that killing civilians started with Indians killing women and children was their mission then i am gonna jump to ww2 bombing to civilian cities waz the biggest mascara in the world history. Now Iraq I wonder what is next. Let me point out couple more things then i\'ll leave in peace. YEAR 1993 TURKISH PRIME MINISTER WANTED FREE IRAQI PEOPLE BUT ANSWER FROM USA WAS \"NO\". USA doesn\'t want any terrorism in the world right? then why the fuck they are supporting the world biggest terrorist nation Kurds. Well that is interesting. Year 1991 in germany kurds killed 21 civilians, 1993 11 french students were murdered by kurds i can list hundereds of terrorist acts here done by kurds. Well I just have one more thing to point out that WHAT USA IS GONNA DO ABOUT NORTH KOREA. They have unknown # of nukes and chemical weapons?','2003-04-26 07:47:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2198,1,3377,'207.170.32.160','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','What you didn\'t hear about the CIA/crack/Watts story was that about a year after it broke the CIA admitted it was true.\r\n\r\nAs you know from my drug article here I follow the drug war quite closely. \r\n\r\nI believed the crack story when it came out (not necessisarily the CIA intentions part but the CIA behavior). I believed that the CIA facilitated selling crack in Watts because I have read the Iran/Contra transcripts. I have read parts of McCoy \"The Politics of Heroin in SE Asia\".\r\n\r\nhttp://www.pir.org/sources/PF.html \r\nhttp://www.akha.org/humanrights/drugwar/mccoy/chapters.htm\r\nhttp://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/3674/mccoy1.html \r\nhttp://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/3674/mccoy2.html\r\nAmazon.com for book\r\nhttp://serendipity.magnet.ch/wod/levine.html\r\nhttp://www.balkanpeace.org/our/our03.shtml\r\n\r\nSo you can see that selling drugs to help finance black operations is a well established CIA tactic.\r\n\r\nThe only part of the original CIA denial that rings true is that they did not intentionally target Watts or the black community. I believe that is true. They were just trying to sell their drugs to whoever could move them.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-26 09:21:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2199,1,3377,'207.170.32.160','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','What is interesting to me in the current context is that the CIA took advantage of the loonieness of the tinfoil hat brigade to disparage a report that was in the main factual even if it\'s conclusions about CIA intentions were over the top.\r\n\r\nWhich just goes to show that not every thing believed by the \"conspiracy brigade\" is false. The brigade is quite useful to cover up artists who want to smear a story.\r\n\r\nYou know the bit \"it is just another loony conspiracy theory, like the Oswald didn\'t act alone nuts.\"\r\n\r\nExcept that Congress came out many years after the fact with an investigation that said that Oswald wasn\'t alone. David Lifton\'s book \"Best Evidence\" convinced me many years before Congress came to it\'s conclusion.\r\n\r\nOne must investigate and then investigate some more. The thing is to look for patterns. Possibilities. Probabilities. Inconsistiencies. And the ability to parse statements. One nice thing about our government is that it rarely lies (except for the DEA). But you must be able to parse \"is\" correctly. You must look at every statement for hidden meaning. What is left out. Where is there misdirection.\r\n\r\nThe truth is out there. The question always is can you find it in the rush of current events. The net makes it much easier. If you can figure out where to look. In hard cases the noise to signal ratio is 20:1 or worse. There are no easy answers.\r\n\r\nWhich is why a reporter\'s or publication\'s reputation is everything.\r\n\r\nWhich is why sometimes when the coverup artists can\'t damage a story they try to damage reputations if they want to keep things hidden.\r\n','2003-04-26 09:51:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2200,1,3377,'209.244.103.31','diana','prairie_moon@earthlink.net','','The people who murdered Daniel Pearl and produced a recruitment/snuff video weren\'t Arabs, blaster. They were British-born and British-raised Muslims whose families originated in Pakistan.\r\n\r\nThe big lies about Jews permeate the Islamic world. \r\n\r\nThe difference between a wrong story about teachers in Maine, and what we\'ve recently been discussing here on this blog, is that no one is getting militias out to shoot teachers in Maine. I didn\'t follow the controversy because I was certain that it had been distorted or blown out of proportion, and also because I figured it was nonsense. Which eventually it was proven to be. And your point is?\r\n\r\nWhat we\'re discussing here are monstrous lies that have the potential to kill people. What we\'re discussing here is the fight between people who are willing to be reasonable and admit mistakes and those who are not.','2003-04-26 09:52:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2201,1,3371,'209.244.103.31','diana','prairie_moon@earthlink.net','','Voice of Reason: I just looked up the URL you provided. I entered various search strings and I couldn\'t find it. I found nothing. But no matter, I googled it and got a few hits. Most of them were the usual nutcase sites, but one pointed me to this:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.iatp.org/iatp/News/news.cfm?News_ID=44\r\n\r\nan article by the selfsame Marie Colvin who co-wrote the original Times article. The article breathlessly states that the Times revealed that Israel \"was\" working on such a weapon. Not maybe, was. But I did get this useful info: the BMA commissioned a report by one Malcolm Dando, \"professor of international security\" at Bradford University about genetic bioweapons. \r\n\r\nA further search shows that Malcolm Dando is Professor of International Security in the \"Department of Peace Studies\" at Bradford University, UK. He trained originally as a biologist.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/iwpList515/5B9B7EB3BFFF9FB3C1256C32004D730D\r\n\r\nThere is no mention on the website of the report he authored. I wonder why. Perhaps it wasn\'t one of his finest efforts.\r\n\r\nHere\'s another link:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.netlink.de/gen/Zeitung/1999/990121b.htm\r\n\r\nThe article describes the possibility that such weapons might be available in \"5 to 10 years.\"\r\n\r\nIt\'s 2003, and no such weaponry is in sight.\r\n\r\nThe BMA probably comes out with a lot of stuff, as does the AMA. Being humanistically inclined, they\'d rather err on the side of caution. A doctor\'s organization would be concerned of the possibility, however remote, of such a weapon being created. The gap between the remote theoretical possibility of genetic bioweapons being created and actually producing them is pretty large. The gap between the remote possibility that such weapons would be created and an ongoing program in Israel is larger.\r\n\r\nAnd your point is?\r\n\r\nAziz is now trolling around various sites, looking for evidence that such weapons are possible. Once he finds what he is looking for, presto! Israel is sure to be lurking somewhere around the corner.\r\n\r\nIn 1998, South Africa announced whatever. At the time, some South African scientists were working with some Israeli scientists on various projects. And your point is? South Africa always had a first-world medical system, is that some kind of crime? No. Connecting dots between the South African medical/scientific community and Israel\'s is a very flimsy basis upon to base this charge.\r\n\r\nVoice of Reason--not.','2003-04-26 10:34:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2202,1,3371,'209.244.103.31','diana','prairie_moon@earthlink.net','','Voice of Reason: why can\'t Israel simply immunize its own population and then pass the infected smallpox blankets to the Palestinians? Wouldn\'t that be much cheaper and easier than working on a bioweapon that would be so targeted it could tell the difference between an Iraqi Jew and Palestinian Arab?','2003-04-26 10:40:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2203,1,3349,'81.218.114.29','ExpatEgghead','egghead@suespammers.org','http://expategghead.blogspot.com','You will all be very welcome. Let me know if you need any help at all. I could even put someone up if they need digs.','2003-04-26 10:49:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2204,1,3371,'209.244.103.31','diana','prairie_moon@earthlink.net','','[[ Deleted at the request of the poster. ]]\r\n\r\nYes, I\'ll do that, part of the \"you own your own words\" bit I described in my post on Winds of Change.NET\'s Comments Policy.','2003-04-26 11:06:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2215,1,3377,'208.59.181.169','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','Oho! So this is the difference between the \"big lies?\"\r\n\r\n\"The difference between a wrong story about teachers in Maine, and what we\'ve recently been discussing here on this blog, is that no one is getting militias out to shoot teachers in Maine.\"\r\n\r\nNot yet, (Maine militias being different from militias in other partos of the country) although there were physical assaults and threats against anti-war protesters all over the USA, and that story contributed to the general and growing atmosphere of hatred against \"liberals\" in this country. If you go back to those posts, you can read for yourself the attacks on me when I questioned the authenticity of the stories.\r\n\r\nThe USA is the country that I live in, not Pakistan, and I\'m more concerned at this point about fascism in the USA than about foreign-origin terrorism. Not today, not tomorrow, but in ten or twenty years.\r\n\r\nThink about it: in ten or twenty years is it more likely that we\'ll be suffering from frequent Islamist terrorist attacks, or that we\'ll have seen many of the articles of the Bill of Rights abrogated or abriged?\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-04-27 00:14:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2216,1,3377,'208.59.181.169','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','And no, that \"Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction\" lie didn\'t get anyone killed, did it? Nor is it indicative of a fascist will to manipulate mass opinion, is it?\r\n\r\nBy the way, is this the same \"Diana\" I was reading about in the New Yorker? The one who ran off with that blogger-alleged-to-be-from-Baghdad\'s personal info, his alleged confidences? The one who couldn\'t put her name in the magazine quickly enough?\r\n\r\nWell, maybe we\'ll be finding him along with those WMD, right? The ones that my military friend in now Iraq called a \"hoax.\" Unless he was for real and Ambassador al-Douri subscribed to the New Yorker, right?\r\n\r\n\r\nI ','2003-04-27 00:35:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2217,1,3382,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','Joe, One of the reasons we have a huge conflict with the Muslims is their willingness, nay, eagerness, to believe dubious information sources that reinforce their hostility toward Israel and toward the West. \r\n\r\nFalse and dubious beliefs that feed the hostility and their embrace of these beliefs are both things to take exception to. That they feel justifed in their hostility due to their false beliefs does not let them off the hook of moral responsibility for their hostility. The Arabs and Muslims systematically delude themselves with bizarre conspiracy theories and pseudo-facts. Charles does a great job of pointing out the falsehoods and delusions that characterize that part of the world and that even characterize many Muslim believers in the West.\r\n\r\nAs for the implication seeming to come from Aziz of there being some good form of Jihad: Come on already. Jihad is built into Islam because Islam was spread at the point of a sword. Jihad is about the use of force to maintain and spread a religious belief. I see nothing good about it.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-27 00:39:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2205,1,3370,'217.235.20.205','leo','antisemitismusstreit@gmx.de','http://www.antisemitismusstreit.tk/','@ M. Simon: I clicked the Narco News, and the first thing which popped up was revisionist cartoonist Latuff, notorious for his Nazi-style Israel-bashing. Looks like that page doesn\'t provide useful information but rather represents a \"blood for drugs\" crowd who poke their fingers into the wounds the Cold War left behind and have nothing to suggest but disengagement. Poor, but at least it reminds us that a future reevaluation of Asia policy will have repercussions in South America.','2003-04-26 14:00:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2206,1,3349,'80.192.88.15','Alice Bachini','alicebachini@hotmail.com','http://libertarian_parent_in_the_countryside.blogspot.com/','Wow, what a brilliant idea. I would love to join in but have no money and two unschooled children, OTOH where there\'s a will. Meantime, expressing my support and enthusiasm.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-26 16:42:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2207,1,3382,'24.127.17.87','Charles','charles@littlegreenfootballs.com','http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/','Maybe a hypothetical example will help explain why I find these comments very offensive.\r\n\r\nSuppose I attend a funeral for a group of children killed in a car crash involving a drunk driver. At the funeral I launch into a tirade about taking back the language of \"moderate alcohol consumption,\" and even try to argue that drinking is a good thing because of the documented health benefits of moderate consumption.\r\n\r\nHow do you think the mourners would react? There\'s no disputing the substance of what I said, but the occasion and the context would make remarks like this extremely offensive. I\'d be lucky to avoid a punch in the mouth.\r\n\r\nI see Aziz\'s comments about jihad as very similar to this example. The mass murderer who slaughtered schoolchildren on a bus was following the dictates of jihad; this is indisputable. To invoke this word, the very cause of what happened on that day, as a positive thing, while the blood of children was still warm on the street -- well, the kindest thing I can say about it is that it\'s insensitive.\r\n\r\nAs for the Mohammed Al-Dura reference, that was even more offensive, because it\'s an attempt to draw an equivalence between the actions of the IDF, who were defending a guard post against a large group of Palestinian attackers that day, and the actions of a suicide bomber who boarded a bus with the intention of committing mass murder. And besides -- it has now been exhaustively shown that al-Dura could not have been killed by Israeli bullets, so the equivalence is dishonest on more than one level.','2003-04-26 21:13:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2210,1,3370,'209.83.111.76','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','leo,\r\n\r\nI was going to put a warning on the Narco news stuff about the owner of the site.\r\n\r\nHe is quite friendly towards me but he is a rabid communist of the \"we know what is good for you variety\". His reports on Latin American doings are excellent if you filter out his political bias.\r\n\r\nThe author of the articles on Narco money was part of the Bush 1 administration - HUD I think. And was high up in the Dillon Reed organization. She now has her own organization Solari. She is no fascist. I would call her a member of the liberal right.\r\n\r\nWhat this all points to is that good information can appear anywhere.\r\n\r\nThe other thing to remember is that other than my Sierra Times stuff and some libertarians out there the left basically owns the anti-prohibition movement. If it stays that way when the drug war ends the left will claim that because they were against prohibition that capitalism and liberal democracy suck.\r\n\r\nI think it is vitally important that the right become a major part of the anti-prohibition movement to avoid what happened in Vietnam where the left used the visible racisim of America against the war effort. Just think of the slogan popular at the time \"No Vietnamese ever called me ni**er\"\r\n\r\nThe other thing that Narco-news reports is that our drug war in South America is funding the FARC and giving ammunition to the other communists of the region. The drug war is ruining our relations with South America and setting back progress there by decades. All in all a very bad deal. In addition it is diverting our armed forces to fight and die in a mission that could be solved by the stroke of a pen.\r\n\r\nMy take on the drug war in South America - a real example of Yankee Imperialism. We ought to change our ways before we make things worse.\r\n','2003-04-26 22:16:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2211,1,3382,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','I hear you, Charles, and I do understand where you\'re coming from. The thing is, he\'s speaking to a different audience. And though I\'m not a cultural relativist by any means, in this case it matters.\r\n\r\nLet\'s start with Jihad. How could be possibly criticize what had just happened as a violation of Islamic principles without invoking the word used as a rationale for the act? I can\'t see how. Yes, it risks the reaction you had to it. But as you yourself point out, jihad is the given justification. Which means he can\'t talk to a Muslim audience effectively if he avoids it. The only way to deal with the issue on a religious level is to draw the distinction he draws: jihad vs. harabah. \"Yes, Mohammed told us jihad would always succeed - but this isn\'t jihad.\" Sort of like \"I served with Senator Kennedy - and you, sir, are no Kennedy.\"\r\n\r\nGot to meet your audience on its own ground in order to persuade anyone. The same dynamic is at work, too, re: Al-Dura. \r\n\r\nYou and I believe Israeli bullets could not have killed the boy, based on the German journalists\' report and other investigations from sources we\'re prepared to trust. I think that\'s where the evidence is. It\'s equally true, however, that Al-Dura has become a symbol of innocent victimhood in the Muslim world. Based on a lie? I believe so. Doesn\'t change the belief\'s existence.\r\n\r\nIn this context, Aziz is using Al-Dura as a recognized symbol. It\'s shorthand/allegory for \"as bad as you think that was, this is the same.\" Formulated that way it\'s pretty uncontroversial, isn\'t it? Using the popular Islamic debating tactic of allegory and drawing on the audience\'s accepted beliefs and outrage is what gives Aziz\' comparison its power, its cognitive judo to the people he\'s addressing. I remember reading that and going \"whoa - that one\'s going to fry some readers\' brain cells!\"\r\n\r\nArguing with his audience about that detail gets him nowhere. And if he does believe it - many do, and not just in the Arab world. I think they\'re wrong, but it\'s a legitimately debatable issue. If Al-Jazeera had done the investigation and concluded the Israelis were guilty, would you say \"oh, all right then?\" Me neither. The problem in this situation is that it\'s sort of like \"who shot JFK?\" - and there\'s no investigative source trusted by both sides. The only way out would be an \"unexpected\" conclusion (Al-Jazeera says the PLO did it, or Israelis say yes we did it which would be unexpected in the Arab world). We didn\'t get that. Meanwhile, I know what I believe.\r\n\r\nLike I said, I respect your position. And I have issues of my own with Aziz. But for the reasons above, this isn\'t one of them.','2003-04-26 22:18:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2212,1,3370,'209.83.111.76','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Here is a short bio of the Narco Dollars author from the Narco News site:\r\n\r\nCatherine Austin Fitts is a former managing director and member of the board of directors of Dillon Read & Co, Inc, a former Assistant Secretary of Housing-Federal Housing Commissioner in the first Bush Administration, and the former President of The Hamilton Securities Group, Inc. She is the President of Solari, Inc, an investment advisory firm. Solari provides risk management services to investors through Sanders Research Associates in London.\r\n','2003-04-26 22:19:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2213,1,3370,'209.83.111.76','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','I forgot to mention that Al Giordano the owner of the site won the Supreme Court case extending First Amendment rights to the net.\r\n\r\nAl is a very interesting guy despite his political leanings.\r\n\r\nWhat this points out is that even \"enemies\" may have useful information and their stand on certain issues may be correct.','2003-04-26 22:27:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2214,1,3370,'209.83.111.76','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','From the head of the first Narco Dollars page:\r\n\r\n\"The Latin American drug cartels have stretched their tentacles much deeper into our lives than most people believe. It\'s possible they are calling the shots at all levels of government.\"\r\n- William Colby, former CIA Director, 1995\r\n\r\nWhat he is saying is that the drug war dollars may be the reason we can\'t stop an obviously bad policy. \r\n\r\nIt is obvious that oil money (Saddam\'s, Saudi\'s, etc.) have corrupted our politicians - Galloway being the best known example. It is a certainty that narco dollars have corrupted our government.\r\n\r\nTo give an example: both Bush and Clinton talked of easing the prohibition laws on the campaign trail. As soon as they got into office they did 180s on the subject. Neither guy was unintelligent. What made them change their minds to support a bad policy?\r\n','2003-04-26 22:35:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2218,1,3382,'208.59.181.169','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','Joe, your arse-kissing of Johnson is nauseating. His site is one long rant against all Muslims.','2003-04-27 00:46:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2219,1,3382,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Charles Johnson is a colleague I respect. And most of the rants on his site come from Muslims - LGF just decides to publicize the hate coming from those quarters and make it an issue, rather than just rolling over and going back to sleep. Putting our heads in the sand won\'t make that hate go away; believe it or not, we\'ve got a few serious enemies out there.\r\n\r\nI\'ll also point out that Charles is quick to write about Muslims who share aspects of our values and put them into practice, from gas station attendants who save Jewish synagogues to today\'s bit about the editor of Pakistan Today.\r\n\r\nThat would tend NOT to make it \"one long rant against all Muslims\"... but I don\'t expect evidence to convince you.\r\n\r\nNow, some of LGF\'s commenters ARE off the deep end, in all directions. He prefers to let other commenters handle them, rather than remove those postings. As liberal as my comments policy here is, his is more so... and I respect his guts for running it that way, because it comes with real costs as well as benefits.','2003-04-27 01:31:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2220,1,3382,'24.127.17.87','Charles','charles@littlegreenfootballs.com','http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/','\"Klaatu\": not to put too fine a point on it, but you are completely full of shit. Maybe you\'d like to explain how these two LGF entries from the last few days fit into your little smear job:\r\n\r\nStraight from Afghanistan.\r\n\r\nThe Anti-Militant Muslim View.','2003-04-27 01:35:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2221,1,3382,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Randall, Aziz\' \"jihad\" is better translated as \"itjihad\". We have a choice: [1] We can break jihad by breaking Islam, with all that entails; or [2] We can shift their understanding of jihad to the \"itjihad\" promoted by folks like Aziz, and contrast it with a keener understanding of \"harabah\" to give it the limits it needs.\r\n\r\nEither success wins the long-term war. Only option #2 lets us avoid killing people by the hundreds of thousands.','2003-04-27 01:35:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2222,1,3382,'206.190.18.202','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Re: Who shot JFK,\r\n\r\n So far we have got to the point in that investigation that it was a conspiracy and that there were \"Mafia\" types behind it. \r\n\r\nThis is now the \"official\" government view based on the last congressional investigation.\r\n\r\nI personally think there were people behind the Mafia. i.e. that like Oswald the Mafia was a cut-out. Just one level removed from Oswald.\r\n\r\nWhat this points out is that the cultural significance of an event changes over time. For the first ten or so years after Kennedy was shot any one believing in a \"conspiracy\" was part of the tinfoil hat brigade.\r\n\r\nThe same is true now re: Dura in the Arab world. In time they will come to a true appriciation of the event once the political hysteria dies down. The conquest of Iraq has gone a long way to bringing the Arab world into ratoinality. Iran will be an even bigger push.\r\n\r\nThis all points out that communicating with others that don\'t share your \"reality\" is very difficult. Communication depends so much on a shared world view. It is somewhat analogous to sending information between computers. If they do not use the same protocol no useful data gets across except the data that useful communication is not happening.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-04-27 02:09:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2223,1,3377,'68.161.97.13','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Klaatu, on the topic of Diane and Salam Pax: you are full of crap. Diane has gone out of her way to try to shield him, and Joe K, Meryl, myself, and some others know that. In the interest of keeping Diane\'s and Salam\'s confidences, that\'s all I\'m going to say.\r\n\r\nBut your sneering and ignorant accusations tell me a lot about you.','2003-04-27 03:12:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2224,1,3360,'65.172.240.34','Russ Nelson','windsofchange.net@russnelson.com','http://angry-economist.russnelson.com/sars.html','Does anyone seriously believe that SARS isn\'t going to spread world-wide? I\'ve already run the numbers on my blog.\r\n-russ\r\n','2003-04-27 03:22:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2225,1,3382,'209.246.77.239','diana','prairie_moon@earthlink.net','','Joe, I understand the distinction you are trying to make between the words \"jihad\" and \"harabah.\" \r\n\r\nWhat I disagree with is that in the real world it makes much of a difference. \r\n\r\nTo a believing Muslim, we are infidels and will burn in hell everlasting. \r\n\r\nMaybe the Sufis developed a way to dance around this, but in the long run, you can\'t deny that Islam is what is written in the Koran. ','2003-04-27 04:34:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2226,1,3377,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','I\'m getting rather tired of Klaatu\'s focus on the Maine story. Mostly because his charges have far less honesty in them than our work here.\r\n\r\n* First, read what we actually wrote, especially our concluding post. The story was most certainly NOT false, as our research made clear.\r\n\r\n* Nor did it ever tar every educator in Maine. It was quite clear at all times that this was limited to a minority, and I never claimed anything else.\r\n\r\n* The crisis was 100% defusable at its inception - IF the education officials had acted properly and dealt with it in a serious manner. When they didn\'t, the Guard went back to the press... and the rest is history.\r\n\r\n* We made a point of being clear, several times, on what was known and what was less clear. I\'ll put that record up against, say, CNN\'s record of disclosure any day.\r\n\r\n* The story ran out of steam in the media because parents chose not to come forward to the media, instead dealing with the issue through regular channels. The Guard then declared the issue closed, which is NOT the same as a hoax by any stretch.\r\n\r\n* At all times we relied on reporting of a breaking story by local news organizations, and by national sources. Our role was mostly as a clearinghouse, keeping the focus on the issue and networking among sources by web, email, even by phone.\r\n\r\n* Our coverage of the story included vigorous debate, both in our comments sections and among the team.\r\n\r\n* We absolutely did do everything in our power to show people the story\'s evolution, from the Coverage History that was moved up every time we reported new material, to extensive promotion of each and every article we put out.\r\n\r\nI don\'t apologize for one word that I wrote.','2003-04-27 04:36:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2227,1,3377,'4.61.2.117','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Hey Klaatu:\r\n\r\nI\'m the guy here who counselled caution on the Maine story, and I think you ought to be ashamed of your last two comments in this thread.\r\n\r\nI\'m an honest-to-God liberal with a capital L who is tired of beating my forehead against my keyboard when I read what the people on my team -which I infer would include you - write.\r\n\r\nWhen we\'ve had twelve years of GOP hegemony, will some people on the left begin to get the idea that Rush Limbaugh\'s tirades work because he manages to tap into a core of belief; that without that core of belief - an ideological core that is conspicuously lacking in the Democratic and further left - it\'s just a temper tantrum?\r\n\r\nThere\'s a real point to make about the ways in which people tend to build stories that fit their beliefs, and how this shows up everywhere -yes, even in these august pages.\r\n\r\nBut with your mixture of self-pity, ad-hominem attacks, and footstamping, you\'ve just blown the chance to have that discussion.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-04-27 05:03:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2228,1,3376,'67.24.254.21','Jim Watkins','james_g_watkins@hotmail.com','','You mean someone expected me to believe them? Who in the media gets paid to tell the truth? \r\n\r\n','2003-04-27 07:10:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2229,1,3377,'207.170.32.21','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','A.L.,\r\n\r\n From what I can see politics in America is undergoing a radical shift.\r\n\r\n The essence of that shift is that economically we are now all on the capitalist road. Marx is dead.\r\n\r\n What will remain is a libertarian oriented left the \"I want to be left alone\" crowd and the cultural conservatives.\r\n\r\n The left will still be interested in social programs, unlike the strict Libertarians, but they will be as much as possible market oriented.\r\n\r\n Liberals will be going back to their original definition of removing, as much as possible, government restrictions. And looking out for the people near the bottom economically and socially. Still rooting for the underdogs without believing that the underdog is always right. Welfare to work is the program of the new liberal. \r\n\r\n The current resent on the left is that their God is dead and they are bitter. In fact the old left has much in common with the cultural conservatives: command and control. We know now without a doubt that it does not work economically. The next 100 years will prove it doesn\'t work socially either.\r\n\r\n Any way that is how I see it as a former socialist liberal. What do you think?','2003-04-27 09:16:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2230,1,3386,'207.170.32.21','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','I met Laura in 1975 when she gave a talk in Chicago.\r\n\r\nI don\'t remember much about the talk but I do remember talking to her afterwards and feeling what I would call an intense personal connection. So intense that I could barely talk. And as you know I am not easily silenced. She felt it too and was a bit more articulate. My future wife was with me at the time and she noticed it as well.\r\n\r\nGlad to hear she is still alive.','2003-04-27 10:09:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2231,1,3382,'207.170.32.21','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','diana,\r\n\r\nMature religions learn to dance around the incovenient \"truths\" in their revealed texts. The Jews have done it with rabinicle Judaism. The Christians have done it by mostly removing the sword as a metod of advancing their belief. \r\n\r\nTo believe that Islam cannot learn to dance around immutable truth is to say that the war they fight must always be against the outsider instead of their internal demons. it also says that their humanity is somehow fundamentaly different than that of the West. \r\n\r\nWhat will be required is that they go from \"literal truth\" to \"allegory\" in the understanding of the Koran. This is a very big deal of course. I think it can be done. \r\n\r\nWhat I am not sure about is if it will be done.\r\n\r\nWhat is needed is a switch from using allegory to explain every day facts with the Koran as the immutable linch pin to making the Koran allegorical and every day facts as the linch pin. In other words science brings the truth. Islam forms the culture but is not rigid. ( of course science is not so rigid either but that is another question )','2003-04-27 10:28:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2232,1,3382,'209.246.111.183','diana','prairie_moon@earthlink.net','','M Simon: I agree with what you say about mature religions. The various versions of the Talmud began to be redacted around the 2nd century AD; Judaism was already a couple of thousand years old at that point. It doesn\'t seem as if Islam is even close to that point.\r\n\r\nRegarding your charge that I am saying that Islamic \"humanity is somehow fundamentally different from the West,\" that is a slight mischaracterization. Allow me to clarify.\r\n\r\nThere are different ways of expressing one\'s humanity, and Islam is certainly different from both Christianity and Judaism in its channeling of various biological urges and characteristics.\r\n\r\nTake the issue of patriarchy and women\'s rights. Islam is fiercely patriarchal. All religions are, to an extent, which reflects a human predisposition to respect male authority. Read any anthropology text; patriarchy rules in every human society. It\'s sad, but it\'s a fact. \r\n\r\nBut none so much as Islam. The movement for women\'s rights will encounter violent resistance in ANY Islamic country. But that\'s the easy part. \r\n\r\nWomen\'s rights will encounter a thicket of scriptually-based objections, none of which can be overcome or fitted into Islam, unless it is reformed beyond recognition.\r\n\r\nRegarding Jihad, there is no religion on earth that I know of whose central tenet is spreading the faith by the sword. \r\n\r\nFor those who say that this is a misunderstanding of Jihad, may I refer them to this link:\r\n\r\nhttp://secularislam.org/articles/bostom.htm\r\n\r\nwhich explains the intimate relationship between Jihad, dhimmitude and the jizya. (Jizya was a cruel poll tax levied on all non-Muslims in the realm of Islam, and led to widespread depopulation by non-Muslims and eventual povertization of the non-Muslims who remained.)\r\n\r\nIn short, M. Simon, Islam is a vigorous, macho, proselytizing faith whose core DNA does not allow for co-existence with other faiths. That hardly makes them un-human (on the contrary; they are all too human); but yes, it is a different expression of humanity than we Americans are accustomed to encountering.','2003-04-27 14:24:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2233,1,3386,'63.189.33.48','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Very cool.\r\n\r\nOf course you know I agree with you completely on the centrality of ideas in all of this. But I am going to give a sort of half-defense of Huxley in one sense: for me at least it would be almost unconcievable to understand something like the EU (and even some trends here in the U.S.) without having read Brave New World - one of the ironies about all these guys is that in practice their ideology tends to resemble the very things they criticized. The fits of course are never perfect.\r\n\r\nIt\'s also one of the few sometimes effective arguments to identify the similarities between what a movement wants to avoid and what it produces.\r\n\r\nBut other than that defense (which arguably is of a \"previous\" Huxley, that is Huxley with somewhat different outlooks than the ones he came to hold later), I completely agree and yes; irony of ironies. 8-)','2003-04-27 16:13:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2234,1,3377,'4.61.2.117','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','M. Simon wrote:\r\n\r\n\"So you can see that selling drugs to help finance black operations is a well established CIA tactic.\"\r\n\r\nAFAIK, there are two interpretations to this:\r\n\r\n1) as a matter of policy the CIA and other officials used drug smuggling as a way of financing policy;\r\n\r\n2) as a matter of policy, the CIA and other officials used and associated with people who used drug smuggling as a way to make a living.\r\n\r\nThere\'s a pretty substantial difference between the two, and while a substantial body of evidence supports 2), I\'ve seen no credible reports that support 1).\r\n\r\nFrom my point of view, I have a hard time imagining that you can do intelligence or other covert activities while only associating with Dudley Do-Right. I have some direct contact with police officers, and it is clear from talking with them that they can\'t do their jobs without associating with and using people who they really ought to be arresting.\r\n\r\nIt\'s a judgement call...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-04-27 18:21:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2235,1,3386,'205.188.209.7','david','sowew84@aol.com','','I was reading Huxley in 1972 and based on something in the reading I suddenly was aware that he was in the room. I have felt since then that he likes to be around people who are thinking about him. I never expressed this to anyone, but it was interesting to read this post and was again think that this man is fascinated with communication from one side to the other, and back again. ','2003-04-27 18:58:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2236,1,3382,'24.90.251.209','someone','no@one.no','','It seems to me a bit... condescending to suggest that \"what a convincing argument against Palestinian terrorism looks like\" needn\'t acknowledge, you know, actual facts in (because of?) the \"Islamic context\". An argument containing an obvious Big Lie isn\'t convincing on this side of the cultural fence, and shouldn\'t cut it anywhere else either. We can and must expect better.\r\n\r\nNow if Aziz had meant to allude to the fact that both al-Dura and the bombing victims were killed by Palestinian extremists, it would be an impressively sharp argument. Unlikely though.','2003-04-27 20:13:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2237,1,3371,'67.75.55.222','Dr. Weevil','curculio@earthlink.net','http://www.doctorweevil.org','Ikram wrote: \"this [accusation] is special because some Jews associate it with Jew-hatred\". It\'s not just \"some Jews\". I\'m not Jewish, have never set foot in a synagogue or been to a seder, never even really knew any practicing Jews until I got to college (a side-effect of twelve years of Catholic school). Nevertheless, I don\'t just \"associate\" the accusation that Israel is working on a genetic bomb with Jew-hatred, I find it a very strong indication of same, especially when the person passing on the accusation can\'t find it in his heart to withdraw it when challenged. In other words, this isn\'t just a case of over-sensitive Jews finding offense where none is intended. Anyone with any decency and common sense should be offended by the accusation.\r\n\r\nWhether a genetic bomb is technically feasible isn\'t really the point. It\'s not scientifically impossible that a UFO crashed in Iraq, and that the U.S. invaded to get its hands on advanced anti-gravity technology: it\'s just absurd, and only a fool believes it.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-27 21:47:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2238,1,3371,'205.188.209.7','button','button@nospam.com','','O.K., so here\'s the deal, Aziz and Ikram:\r\n\r\nWe can develop a genetic bomb that singles out Presbyterians. That would be a lot easier that a g.b. that differentiates between Semites who subscribe to various and diverse religions and/or ideologies or creeds.\r\n\r\nHere\'s how to do it: we can just put the material into watercress and cucumber sandwiches, since Presbyterians are the only religionists who eat them.\r\n\r\nSimple solution to the problem, isn\'t it?! And what I really like about this targeting approach is the elegant economy of it.','2003-04-27 22:56:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2239,1,3382,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','No matter who killed the boy, I think we can all agree Al-Dura was an innocent victim. In which case, his use in Aziz\' analogy is entirely proper. Follow me here:\r\n\r\nThose who believe Al-Dura was killed by the Israelis hear the allegory one way (and it packs a real wallop), while those who believe (as I do) that the Palestinians killed him for the cameras can hear it in your \"impressively sharp\" form. Either way, it still makes sense. Al-Dura was an innocent victim, and he will be in heaven to meet those who are also innocent victims of wrongful violence, and that\'s true no matter who did it.\r\n\r\nWe can still argue with Aziz and others about who killed Al-Dura if we wish. But it\'s peripheral to the opinions he expresses in the post we\'re discussing, and the outcome of that argument doesn\'t change his post\'s propriety.\r\n\r\nUnless you\'re a Muslim who believes Aziz is referring to Al-Dura as a victim of Palestinian terror. Then you\'ll be offended. Ditto someone on our side of the fence who sees it as blaming the Israelis. Just see the story in your own preferred context instead of your enemy\'s, and the problem vanishes like a magic trick. Which, in a way, it is.','2003-04-27 23:10:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2240,1,3377,'151.203.217.21','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','Well, I\'ll let y\'all know that I followed Armed Liberal to this page, but was really dismayed by the Maine teachers story. Hence my focus on it.\r\n\r\nThe facts about it are this: no attribution, no names, no locations, no direct quotes. No credibility. But a great vehicle for Limbaugh, O\'Reilly, WorldNetDaily, Savage, Hannity, Coulter, etc.\r\n\r\nI\'m upset because I think that either (1) some teacher DARED to express some opinion against the war and was pounced upon by the right wing part of the crowd who believe that noone should ever hear anything that \"upsets\" them, or (2) some parent exaggerated an incident to act out their own internal crisis or personal problem.\r\n\r\nYou just don\'t get it, Joe: it\'s the very lack of specificity in the charge that would tend to chill and suppress free speech. Hence the legal doctrine: \"void for vagueness.\"\r\n\r\nSo I hereby declare and ajudge the charges against the teachers of Bangor, Maine \"void for vagueness.\"\r\n\r\nAnd I\'m not going to be ashamed of this:\r\n\"Think about it: in ten or twenty years is it more likely that we\'ll be suffering from frequent Islamist terrorist attacks, or that we\'ll have seen many of the articles of the Bill of Rights abrogated or abriged?\"\r\n\r\nbecause I think it\'s true.','2003-04-28 02:11:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2241,1,3371,'12.254.8.46','Robin Roberts','finalprotfire@attbi.com','http://robinroberts.blogspot.com/','\"Voiceofreason\" posts identical claims ( and identical misrepresentations of actual events ) as a poster on LGF calling himself \"USSR\". Both have been Fisk\'d.','2003-04-28 02:25:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2242,1,3377,'4.61.2.117','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Klaatu:\r\n\r\nThere\'s one large problem with your latest construction; the fact is that the previous administration - a Democratic one AFAIK - wasn\'t exactly a huge supporter of civil liberties either. So it\'s hard to make this the progressive/conservative issue as I see you attempting.\r\n\r\nWe have two fronts on which we need to struggle...we need to find a way to solve the problem of terrorism AND we need to do it in the context of defending our civil liberties. the problem is that doing one - defending civil liberties doesn\'t improve our odds on the other -- fighting terrorist-supporting ideologies; but it does work the other way around - successfully fighting terrorist-supporting ideologies DOES improve our odds of defending our civil liberties.\r\n\r\nMakes the priorities relative straightforward to me.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-04-28 02:47:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2243,1,3377,'151.203.217.21','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','A.L. I agree with you about the Clintonites.\r\n\r\nThere is no party of freedom in this country, unless you count the rag-tag bunch which includes people like Bob Barr, Dick Armey, Norman Mailer, Lewis Lapham, and a few others. And what do they have in common? \r\n\r\nPlease don\'t make me out to be a \"progressive.\" I\'m not. I grew up in the city and had to live through all the \"progressives\" bright ideas in the 60s, 70s and 80s.\r\n\r\nBut this Bush crew is much scarier than the Clinton crew. Ashcroft has a lot more momentum than Janet \"protect the children\" Reno ever had. Funny that Ashcroft himself was considered a civil libertarian, concerned with religious-rights issues, when Clinton was in power. And this whole right-wing media thing - what a mobilization of the mob! Don\'t get me back on the Maine teachers.\r\n\r\nThere may have been good ideas for going to war with Iraq. I told some near and dear to me - one who\'s there now, one who\'s going soon (for a year) that it\'ll be good for the Iraqis, one way or the other. It just may not turn out to be good for the US.\r\n\r\nWhatever the case, the whole WMD thing was the Big Lie. \r\n\r\nIt reminds me of the one invasion I participated in, little Grenada (although the casualties were almost as many as Iraq, I recall). That was about \"rescuing medical students.\" \r\n\r\nIn uniform, we knew it was about geopolitical struggle and the imperative to deny the Sovs the Point Salines airfield and an English-speaking Marxist-Leninist outpost in the Caribbean.\r\n\r\nTo me, it would have been better to have said \"We don\'t want the Cubans and Sovs to have this island.\"\r\n\r\nAs it would be better to have laid out the full plans for the region and not leave it to us to speculate whether we\'re invading Syria or Iran next.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-04-28 04:53:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2244,1,3377,'4.61.2.117','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Klaatu:\r\n\r\nActually, I agree with you. I think that the overture was badly played. I think the excuse was that we were anxious and weren\'t willing to take the heat that honesty would have generated. That\'s too bad, because I think that in the next round of diplomacy, candor will be our most powerful tool. And I think we\'re starting to get it, although the jury is still out on whether it is bluster or real candor.\r\n\r\nI think that the short and intermediate term will be worse for us than if we had done nothing; but I think our long-term future is brighter.\r\n\r\nNow for the major task of doing it all while fighting back the encroachments on our civil liberties...want to help figure that out?\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-28 05:08:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2245,1,3389,'65.147.94.251','Harm','harmisajedi@hotmail.com','http://nequidnimis.blogspot.com','\r\nHow are you gentlemen!! All your base are belong to us. You are on the way to destruction. \r\n\r\n\r\nahhhhhh, engrish... the universal language.','2003-04-28 05:23:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2246,1,3378,'217.136.19.235','Peter','linetech@iname.com','','In the West we have the homsexual rights activists in the place of the Chinese communists and HIV in the place of SARS:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/horowitz061201.asp\r\n\r\n--\r\n\r\nPeter','2003-04-28 10:56:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2247,1,3389,'209.83.111.70','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','\r\n\r\nBeautiful!!!!!!\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-04-28 14:52:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2248,1,3342,'61.149.57.159','Bright','BR@6w.com.cn','','I\'m chinese people.I want to know how many people sarsed in the china.Who know plase back me.Thank you!!\r\n','2003-04-28 15:34:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2249,1,3388,'68.160.247.157','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Joe, I have been reading Winds of War regularly, and I also post to the Command Post. A cursory reading would give one the impression that they cover the same ground, but although their links overlap a bit, they are quite distinct.\r\n\r\nI can\'t put that difference into words right now, but it is real, and you should put something in your job description that defines it, otherwise WoW could become just a pale imitation of CP.\r\n\r\nIf i can put my finger on the uniqueness of WoW, I\'ll write it down.','2003-04-28 16:54:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2250,1,3378,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','That URL makes some very solid points. Saving lives need to be placed above politics during disease outbreaks - otherwise, SARS in China is showing us the painful consequences. \r\n\r\nHad time-proven procedures been followed with AIDS, there would be a lot more gay mean walking around in the USA today. Certainly hundreds more. Maybe thousands more. One wonders exactly whom the \"gay activists\" in question have served? Other than themselves, of course.','2003-04-28 16:58:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2251,1,3371,'64.152.168.174','Diana','prairie_moon@earthlink.net','','For the record, Joe\'s comment disagreeing with me was highlighted on Tacitus\' blog. \r\n\r\n I also disagree with [Diane Moon\'s] definition of anti-Semitism... no culture \"owns\" its history as an exclusive possession, and anyone else is free to use it in argument. \r\n\r\nI let it pass when it was simply a part of this comment line, but since Tacitus singled it out, here\'s my response.\r\n\r\nThat\'s a mischaracterization of what I said, which was:\r\n\r\nI don\'t consider the essence of racism or Jew-hatred to be actual physical violence against the hated group, although both hatreds virtually always end up in a violent spasm. Racism and Jew-hatred are taking control of the other\'s history and using it against him. Racism and anti-Semitism are controlling the terms of the debate.\r\n\r\nI never said that a culture \"owns\" its\' history as an exclusive possession. \r\n\r\nAnd by the way, Jose, I think we can both agree that he didn\'t \"use\" Jewish history--he misused it.','2003-04-28 17:43:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2252,1,3387,'207.168.128.75','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','We need Baghdad Bob to rep the Tigers right now!','2003-04-28 17:48:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2253,1,3370,'217.235.26.175','leo','antisemitismusstreit@gmx.de','http://www.antisemitismusstreit.tk/','Unanswered questions provide the room for conspiracy theories to rise. I\'d add the international perception growing with the decades, which basically says if prohibition laws ever were abandoned the U.S. would have to be the starting point of this process, reversed domino wouldn\'t work. \r\n\r\nGenerally, I\'d assume that the political compass of right vs. left belongs to an historical era and prefer to use the compass of revisionist vs. progressive. Your stance is backed by my observation that in the anti-war crowd there were people who argued they backed the terrorists because the Middle East is another South America, just with desert instead of jungle. I recall it because you never hear that in Europe.\r\n\r\nI think that now as OPEC is damaged, the instrument to make the anti-prohibition movement adapt this new compass is to put the oil-drugs analogy in the frontline: both are essentially about trade cartels with fantasy profit margins, both are entwined by revisionist conspiracies not less fantastic, and both hinder the war on terrorism if not redesigned. \r\n\r\nOf course, in both cases revisionist sites can be worth reading when provided with proper introduction - the one you gave was way better than the one I got from recognizing that cartoonist. \r\n\r\nBut the $64 question is how to get on with it after the grand strategy of the anti-prohibition movement \"prove that there must be bribe by demonstrating that campaigning doesn\'t work\" seems to have led to nowhere.\r\n\r\nWe should monitor whether the Iraqis will establish prohibition. Sooner or later, they will start their drug debate with an (religiously-fed) argument how to deal with Alcohol and then the inescapable rest follows.','2003-04-28 17:54:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2254,1,3378,'208.187.72.93','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Joe,\r\n\r\nThe Taiwanese papers are reporting that the mainland Chinese are considering nation-wide martial law to deal with the SARS epidemic.\r\n\r\nI think the move would be wise at this point because the various local party cadres have been playing politics with the disease rather than doing their job to stop it.\r\n\r\nThe only Chinese national institution that can be trusted to do the job now seems to be the PLA.','2003-04-28 18:26:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2255,1,3389,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','Joe,\r\n\r\nI need to take pithy comment practice from you and Mickey Kaus. ','2003-04-28 18:45:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2257,1,3388,'171.161.160.10','Jeff Medcalf','medcalf@caerdroia.org','http://www.caerdroia.org/blog','Well, I think that the key is context. What CP and Agonist do is basically stream the news from multiple sources. What Joe has done with WoW is to select a smaller number of stories which provide a skeletal framework, to give a basic outline structure of current events. Then, the CP/Agonist stories hang off of that framework to fill out the news. It seems to me that whomever ends up editing WoW will need to be someone who can pick out the underlying threads of what is going on, put them into a historical/philosophical context, then link to those which demonstrate that context.\r\n\r\n-jeff','2003-04-28 20:55:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2258,1,3388,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Jeff, you get it exactly.','2003-04-28 22:02:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2259,1,3371,'65.97.22.232','Meryl Yourish','meryl@nospam.com','http://www.yourish.com/','Just as an FYI, I have a cousin who is a geneticist. I was waiting for her email, but I think I\'m done with posting about it on my blog. But here\'s her direct quote:\r\n\r\nWe are not capable of making a weapon that will just target \"Arabs\". It would be like trying to target \"rapists\". What does a rapist look like, are they all the same? It\'s ridiculous to even suggest Israel or anyone else is doing that!\r\n\r\nI rest my case.','2003-04-28 22:07:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2261,1,3394,'209.92.97.54','JD','jane.i.doe@yahoo.com','','Subject: Re: Hi, regarding Jessica Lynch.org\r\n\r\nPlease refer to http://www.missnycity.org. I am the Executive Director of the Miss New York City Scholarship Organization an official preliminary competition to Miss America. \r\n\r\nOn February 15th a young woman by the name of Jessica Lynch won the title of Miss New York City 2003. As part of my contract with the Miss America organization it is suggested that we buy the domain names of our contestants as to keep anyone from misusing them.\r\n\r\nAs stated above my registering of these sites has nothing to do with Jessica Lynch the POW. \r\n\r\nBest, \r\nShenan Reed Golimbu\r\n\r\nhttp://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0304/S00102.htm\r\n\r\nHTH,\r\nJD','2003-04-28 23:14:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2262,1,3391,'151.198.202.155','susanna','biasblog@nospam.com','http://bias.blogfodder.net','Actually, Sparkey, it\'s not up for me - I can\'t access it as of 6:15 EST from a LAN connection using IE 5.5. I get the full background, the banner and the left sidebar, but the posting area is missing. At the bottom is a box (in the blog colors) that says this:\r\n\r\n----------\r\nComment Leader:\r\n\r\nWarning: Access denied for user: \'johnstryker@66.139.78.175\' (Using password: YES) in /web/script/johnstryker/sgtstryker.com/connect.php on line 6\r\n\r\nWarning: MySQL Connection Failed: Access denied for user: \'johnstryker@66.139.78.175\' (Using password: YES) in /web/script/johnstryker/sgtstryker.com/connect.php on line 6\r\nI cannot connect to the database.\r\n----------\r\n\r\nWithout the line at the beginning and end, btw. I don\'t know what that means, but it may be relevant to getting SSDB ready for my business! :D','2003-04-28 23:19:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2263,1,3391,'134.215.202.133','JAGCAP','carrier.law@prodigy.net','','Me too! :(','2003-04-28 23:22:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2264,1,3394,'138.133.17.9','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','I love the Internet! Disinformation and correction whil I make a pot of tea!\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-04-28 23:27:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2265,1,3371,'205.188.209.7','button','button@nospam.com','','That O.K., Chuck. I believe that Aziz will realize that this is bunk after a while.\r\n\r\nAnd amen to Meryl\'s cousin!\r\n\r\nOh, and by the way, nuclear fission does NOT follow the Fuerer Principle! :-)','2003-04-28 23:38:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2266,1,3391,'24.170.184.176','Andrea Harris','webmistress@spleenville.com','http://spleenville.com/','I\'m getting just the sidebar, and then that error message appears on the bottom -- no posts. I feel bad -- my site is on Cornerhost, but on a different server, so it was only down for a few hours, apparently. :(','2003-04-28 23:43:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2267,1,2999,'66.183.43.31','Guy Cramer','gcramer@uniteddynamics.com','http://www.superforce.com/shuttle/','Lightning still probable cause in Shuttle Columbia accident. To date the lightning theory answers more questions such as unexpected communications drop-outs and the San Fran lightning-Columbia photo being taken at the same time as a comm drop-out than does insulating foam damage from take-off. A rare solar shock wave detected by the NOAA struck the earth at the same time which produced measurable increases in the energy within the ionosphere.\r\nsee: http://www.superforce.com/shuttle/ \r\n\r\nSincerely,\r\nGuy Cramer ','2003-04-28 23:49:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2268,1,3391,'209.233.238.162','jerry','fake@123street.com','','Please understand, I am not laughing at you, but when I see error messages that print themselves onto the webpage that state what the password is, well, that does make me laugh.\r\n\r\nIgnorant Software Developers!\r\n\r\n(me being one)','2003-04-29 00:03:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2269,1,3391,'165.121.148.86','joy','blog@cleverhack.com','http://www.cleverhack.com/blog/','Heh. I know that error very well. It is an error with the MySQL database. It is NOT a password error (i.e. you didn\'t just see the passwords), instead the user accounts for the posters were created, but the user accounts were not added to the database. \r\n\r\nWhy do I know this? Because when I was setting up my blog, this same error caused me trouble for nearly a day. ','2003-04-29 00:19:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2270,1,3391,'64.175.246.157','Rossz','rossz+blog@vamos-wentworth.org','http://blogs.vamos-wentworth.org/geek','Obviously they didn\'t set the permissions for MySQL. The command to do this is:\r\n\r\ngrant all on db_name.* to johnstryker@66.139.78.175 identified by \'password\';\r\n\r\nor\r\n\r\ngrant all on dbname.table_name to johnstryker@66.139.78.175 identified by \'password\';\r\n\r\nRossz\r\n(unemployed geek)\r\n\r\nP.S. They might want to use something other than \"all\" permissions. It depends on the situation. Personally, I prefer to use one login for posting privileges, and another for readonly access. That improves security.\r\n','2003-04-29 00:23:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2271,1,3378,'198.26.130.36','Samuel Tai','taiss@gte.net','','Trent,\r\n\r\nI doubt the PLA will be able to handle it either. Its leadership is just as corrupt as the CCP. And once the troops are stricken, the PLA will be powerless.\r\n\r\nThe death toll could reach into the millions, not just from the disease, but from the panic, the quackery, the hoarding of food/water/medicine. We may even see scenes not seen since the Black Death. Corpses left to rot in the street.\r\n\r\nIf the disease were just still restricted to Henan, I can see the PLA considering nuking the city to spare the rest of the country. Unfortunately, because of the cultural imperative not to lose face by admitting either bad news or weakness, it\'s now all over China.','2003-04-29 00:45:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2272,1,3391,'64.175.246.157','Rossz','rossz+blog@vamos-wentworth.org','http://blog.vamos-wentworth.org/geek','Jerry, \"YES\" is not the password. The error message indicates that a password was used, though it does not tell you if you used the correct password.\r\n','2003-04-29 01:41:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2273,1,3391,'68.99.109.130','Wind Rider','windrdr2002@yahoo.com','http://silentunning.blogspot.com','wow. one little error message and the server admins come outta the woodwork! :)','2003-04-29 02:11:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2274,1,3391,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Uh, not quite Sparkey. doesn\'t work in Netscape 7.02/Mozilla for some reason. I get just the blogrolls, then:\r\n\r\nGee-Whiz\r\n2020 Entries\r\n\r\n10923 Comments.\r\n\r\nComment Leader:\r\n\r\nWarning: Access denied for user: \'johnstryker@66.139.78.175\' (Using password: YES) in /web/script/johnstryker/sgtstryker.com/connect.php on line 6\r\n\r\nWarning: MySQL Connection Failed: Access denied for user: \'johnstryker@66.139.78.175\' (Using password: YES) in /web/script/johnstryker/sgtstryker.com/connect.php on line 6\r\nI cannot connect to the database.','2003-04-29 03:07:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2275,1,3393,'24.34.23.38','James A. Wolf','jawolf@attbi.com','http://jawolf.blogspot.com','The old \'semi-innocent\' passenger trick. Convince him (or her, like the preggo GF back in the 80s) to smuggle the \'drugs,\' which turns out not to be drugs.','2003-04-29 05:00:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2276,1,3393,'128.195.201.236','Michael Levy','privateerblog@hotmail.com','','In Sum of All Fears, doesn\'t one of the terrorists get curious and end up dead because of it? I thought that was a bit far-fetched, but I guess not.\r\n\r\nI guess now that Saddam has lost the war, he and Al-Qaida have absolutely no reason not to use everything in their arsenal against us (he might not have wanted a WMD strike during the war because he was hoping the UN would intervene on his behalf)\r\n\r\nIn any case, if this turns out to be Al Qaida and/or Iraq, it would certainly prove that they were a threat to us, they still are a threat to us, and if they had been planning this for a long time, our preemptive strike was absolutely justified. It would shoot down a lot of anti-war arguments.','2003-04-29 06:32:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2277,1,3393,'24.69.255.203','Jay Currie','jay-currie@shaw.ca','http://www.reviewing.blogspot.com','All of the worry seems exactly right; but I am amazed at the assumption that the anthrax was going to a target in the US. Or, at least, only the US.\r\n\r\nA suitcase full of weaponized anthrax is more than enough to cause mass casualties in several Canadian cities and a few American ones.\r\n\r\nFrom a Muslim terrorist perspective a dead infidel is just fine even if they don\'t live in the Great Satan. And I rather doubt Al Qaeda has given Chretien and Our Lady Peace much credit for whatever the hell their policy is on Iraq.\r\n','2003-04-29 08:05:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2278,1,3390,'193.128.170.146','mark holland','sword@shield.ddr','','In the Stasi Headquarters (now a museum) it said that West German TV\'s most famous East Berlin correspondent was on their payroll. ','2003-04-29 11:30:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2279,1,3393,'216.73.31.207','Mike Spenis','MikeSpenis@FecesFlingingMonkey.com','http://www.fecesflingingmonkey.com','\r\n\r\nI\'ve been watching this story with some concern as well. I think it is interesting that there are several small details here which don\'t fit together too well, which suggests to me that we have yet not heard the whole story.\r\n\r\n1) Presumably, the man was found dead in his hotel. How do we know the details of where he got the suitcase, or what it contained, or that he opened it up? Was this just some Brazilian official\'s speculation that was picked up by a reporter?\r\n\r\n2) Where is the suitcase now?\r\n\r\n3) 10 minutes with a microscope and a piece of lung tissue should resolve any doubts about inhalation anthrax. If our people are on this case, what\'s the delay? If they are not on this case, what\'s the hold-up? It\'s been almost two weeks since this was first reported.\r\n\r\nMaybe this was just a guy who suffered a rare medical problem, and the backstory is unsubstantiated, or maybe we had an honest-to-god problem here and they are keeping the details vague while they run down the badguys. Either way, I hope we get a straight answer soon.\r\n ','2003-04-29 12:54:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2280,1,3393,'209.89.187.236','John','jtilley@canoemail.com','','Jay Currie\r\n\r\nThe terrorists aren\'t interested in Canadian cities, yet. The Great Satan is the terrorists target and possibly Britain, i.e. anybody who stands up to them. Canada is a useful semi-ally against the U.S. and I would be very surprised if any Canadian cities were targeted. ','2003-04-29 13:10:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2281,1,3393,'64.65.206.96','Chuck','chuck@simmins.org','http://','The symptoms described for the sailor in the original story appear to be the type of anthrax when you eat it (forgot the name). If it\'s true. The medical people who found him are reported to have become ill and have to be treated at a hospital, not an anthrax occurance.\r\n\r\nGuys, why would you believe a news report from Brazil? A couple of years ago they reported flocks of flying pigs roaming the country.','2003-04-29 13:33:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2282,1,3390,'207.168.131.226','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Hmmmm. For each cruise missle we could have sent a Bentley. I wonder how the war could have been avoided if we spread enough of those around?','2003-04-29 15:23:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2285,1,3396,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','First of all, guys, welcome to the Blogosphere! Started yesterday, I see.\r\n\r\nI\'d be very, very interested in anything you can dig up. Point taken re: al-Qaeda, and I\'ll change the post, but in practice there is evidence of cooperation between them. Also seem to recall seeing some direct al-Qaeda references re: that area - but I\'ll change the wording until/unless I find them.\r\n\r\nThanks!','2003-04-29 16:09:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2284,1,3396,'137.18.255.41','Lad','windofchange@onlyalad.com','http://onlyalad.blogspot.com','I read the same story yesterday on yahoo, I have a friend scouring portugese websites looking for more information on the story. He\'s yet to get back to me. \r\n\r\nYou listed the area as a Al-Qaeda hotbed. The area on the border of Brazil and Argentina isn\'t a historically base for Al-Qaeda but rather Hezbolla and other Iranian backed terror groups.','2003-04-29 15:58:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2286,1,3390,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Avoided? Not at all, unless you believe a raging mob of journalists would have been driven to overthrow Saddam. At best, the war would have been covered more nicely.\r\n\r\nBribes are Saddam\'s game, and following that lead just entrenches the blatant media corruption that is the central problem of Arab media (ours too, as CNN shows - but not to the same extent). \r\n\r\nThe information in Saddam\'s vaults is currency of a different kind. Used properly, it can create real changes in the dynamics of the region. Give a jornalist a Bentley, he\'s set for 10 years. Help him establish a reputation in his field with solid scoops, and he\'s set for a lifetime.','2003-04-29 16:15:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2287,1,3393,'64.231.127.98','Nicholas Packwood','nicholaspackwood@yahoo.com','http://ghostofaflea.blogspot.com','Jay Currie is right. Canada might very well have been the intended target. I am certain many Australians felt fairly secure - if only symbolically - against islamist terror prior to the massacre in Bali. Canadians are making the same mistake. Canada is, if anything, among the most logical follow-on targets for al-Qaeda and its affiliated NGOs.','2003-04-29 16:49:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2288,1,3393,'66.66.164.79','Bob Young','ryoung14@rochester.rr.com','','Where\'s the suitcase now? Has anyone checked its contents? If full of anthrax, that thing is a WMD if anything is. The Whodunnit angle is interesting, I agree, but until the weapon has been determined or rendered harmless, whodunnit is of secondary concern. Pardon my prosaic concerns.','2003-04-29 18:03:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2289,1,3396,'200.148.111.114','Alan Myatt','amyatt@pobox.com','http://imagoveritatis.myatts.net','\"O Liberal\", a Brazilian newspaper in Pará state is reporting here that the first port of entry into Brazil for the crew of the dead man\'s ship was São Paulo. São Paulo is about a twelve hour drive from Foz da Iguaçu and could have easily been a point of pick-up for a package originating there. Of course, there is no evidence one way or another cited to support this, but in theory it is possible that the suitcase\'s contents originated there. Whether or not anyone in Foz has the facilities for creating anthrax, I have no idea. I do think that this area is closely watched by intelligence sources of the US, Brazil and Paraguay.\r\n\r\nI was in Paraguay on 9/11 and took a flight out from there back to São Paulo that afternoon. I was amazed at the presence of U.S. military at the Asuncion airport as I was leaving. I have been through there many times and never before had I seen anything like this.\r\n','2003-04-29 18:50:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2290,1,3393,'213.243.148.57','JH','jussimhamalainen@luukku.com','','The symptoms do indeed resemble intestinal anthrax,but they also match the inhalational form of anthrax.If the report\'s claim of \"multiple organ failure\" is true,that would sound more like inhalational anthrax,since the intestinal form is usually concentrated in the intestinal tract.\r\n\r\nI\'ll admit it\'s a bit inconclusive,though.However,if the report is true in claiming that several hotel employees also came ill,then intestinal may have to be ruled out also.That\'s because intestinal form can only spread if the victim ingests the spores,most commonly by eating diseased food.In addition,anthrax doesn\'t spread from person to person.\r\n\r\nIf I were a hotel employee and found a dead man lying in a pool of his own bloody vomit (I\'m guessing here),the first thing that I\'d do was to get the hell out of there.Instead of wolfing down his unfinished steak tartare,if you know what I mean.\r\n\r\nAll supposing that one can trust the Brazilian police on this,of course.Caveat emptor.\r\n','2003-04-29 19:07:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2291,1,3396,'65.28.0.48','Dan Darling','scorpius@shwiggie.com','http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com',' According to Rohan Gunaratna\'s \"Inside al-Qaeda,\" the group has operations in the Triple Border area as part of the agreement between them and Hezbollah. There was also a CNN story awhile back about Khalid Sheikh Mohammed traveling to Brazil in 1995, which is definitely enough to make one go, \"Hmm ...\"','2003-04-29 19:52:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2292,1,3374,'143.111.216.115','Aziz','azizhp@com.yahoo','http://unmedia.blogspot.com','I\'ve addressed this topic on my blog. Invite comments. \r\n\r\nhttp://unmedia.blogspot.com/2003_04_29_unmedia_archive.html#200217565\r\n\r\nBTW James, your version of events is rather differrent from my recollection. Dishonest indeed? Still, I fully intend to respect the privacy of our conversations last year. You\'re free to misrepresent them to score points anywhere you wish. ','2003-04-29 20:19:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2293,1,3393,'4.65.104.141','D. Raymond','spacemonqui@yahoo.com','http://www.canada.com/national/features/terrorist/','Montreal? OK, Class, and Ahmad Ressam was traveling from where....?','2003-04-29 20:31:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2294,1,3398,'143.111.216.115','Aziz','azizhp@com.yahoo','http://unmedia.blogspot.com','AL< great post. cant wait for part 2 - and what you wriote will have a definite impact on my own continuing exploration of the topic at UNMEDIA. ','2003-04-29 22:36:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2295,1,3393,'24.69.255.203','Jay Currie','jay-currie@shaw.ca','http://www.reviewing.blogspot.com','John,\r\n\r\nWhile I sincerely hope you will not be surprised I recall the utter indifference Al Qaeda displayed when it hit a French tanker rather than an American one a few months ago.\r\n\r\nAn infidel is an infidel whether in Toronto or Boston or Manchester.','2003-04-29 22:41:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2296,1,3398,'168.39.176.165','Daniel','kafka26@justice.com','http://trivialpursuits.blogspot.com','AL,\r\n\r\nI think you\'re seriously, fundamentally wrong that Israel is not an ally of the US, that it has little to contribute b/c its existence is challenged.\r\n\r\nIn the first place, Israel from 1975--1991 was THE testing ground for virtually every new piece of US weaponry. True, the US supplied arms to Israel, but the US got a tremendous amount in return: they got live, real-time field tests of their new-fangled technology. Such testing is and was absolutely invaluable, especially after Vietnam and during the Cold War, when the arms buildup accelerated but the US was not involved in any conflict whereby they could test their new technologies.\r\n\r\nIsrael, involved in constant conflict, provided the testing ground for those weapons.\r\n\r\nSecond, Israeli technology is quite important as well, especially semiconductor and chip research centered in Haifa. The exchange of technology in intellectual property is extremely important. Go tell Microsoft, Intel, or Sun that their abilities to exchange technical data and information with Israeli corporations has been prohibited, and see how they take it. Israeli technology play a fairly important role in American IP development, IMO.\r\n\r\nFurthermore, I question the basic assumption underlying your position: why does it follow from the fact that Israel\'s existence is threatened that it could not provide material support to the US if the US needed it?\r\n\r\nIsrael\'s policies thus tend to have a rather one-dimensional aspect which makes it difficult to rely on them as allies when any issue comes up that potentially impacts their self-perception of their ability to survive both as a nation and as a population.\r\n\r\nI don\'t know what this means. How does the fact that Israel is greatly concerned for its own existence and security prevent it from being a strong and serious ally to the US? What does it mean to be an \"ally\"?\r\n\r\nI also think that while your discussion of invasion and territorial ambition is generally accurate, you gloss over the impact of the War of Attrition, which is how many in Israel describe what has been happening in Israel since 1982. Namely, the firing of Katyusha rockets from the Bekaa Valley into Northern Israel; the intifada, the suicide bombings, etc. Does this qualify as an invasion? Probably not, which is why I generally agree with you. But neither can the impact of such skirmishes on the Israeli psyche and sense of collective security be ignored or minimized.','2003-04-29 22:47:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2297,1,3396,'213.243.148.57','JH','jussimhamalainen@luukku.com','','This just in:according to Reuters,the second tests on the Egyptian mariner have proven negative.No anthrax after all.','2003-04-29 23:29:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2298,1,3397,'213.243.148.57','JH','jussimhamalainen@luukku.com','','This just in:the anthrax case in Brazil a false alarm.I put the link to Reuters story on the anthrax incident post below.','2003-04-29 23:31:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2299,1,3398,'205.211.160.1','poikilotherm','poikilotherm51@yahoo.ca','','I like your essay, with a few caveats. As Daniel says, I do think you underestimate the contributions and the national attachments of Israel to the United States. Israel is in a tight spot, to be sure, and sometimes her percieved best interests will conflict with the USA, but push comes to shove, I think you have an ally there in a way that (say) Canada is at present not. I say that as a Canadian, BTW. But that is simply my opinion. \r\n\r\nYou ask: \"Does Israel have a right to WMD\"\r\n\r\nThere are two attacks on this topic: \r\n\r\n1. \"What are the \"rights\" of nations, how do we decide what our rights are vs anothers rights, how do we mediate disputes, how are these rights limited by othernations, and is a WMD unique enough to deserve particular concern?\" That\'s as opposed to \r\n\r\n2. \"On balance, is it better for Israel to have the bomb than no?\" \r\n\r\nThe former is a moral/legal question: a question of principle, casuistry, history and treaties. The latter is simple pragmatism. The answer to #2 is a no-brainer, in my eyes: if you think Israel is, on balance, Something To Be Preserved, the answer is \"yes\". When mobs and governments say \"Death to So-and-So\" on a daily basis, it is sensible to take them at their word, and risking suicide not to. You appear to be taking that tack, and I like it. I agree that the notion of Israel having \'territorial ambitions is ...odd. \r\n\r\n\r\nThe answer to #1 is, I think uselessly complicated and burdened with cultural/moral/intellectual baggage, and you could easily crank a yes or a no out of it, depending on a whole lotta definitions and nuances. It sounds ripe for a Marxist brain-sucking experience in some hands. ','2003-04-29 23:47:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2300,1,3398,'216.99.194.69','jeanne a e devoto','jaed@jaedworks.com','http://bittersanity.blogspot.com','I don\'t read Armed Liberal as saying that Israel hasn\'t contributed \"enough\" to be considered an ally... more that if it comes down to a choice betweeen \"be a good friend to the US\" or \"get thrown into the sea\", any country will choose the latter, and in the case of Israel (unlike, say, France, or Saudi Arabia), it\'s a real possibility.\r\n\r\nSo their friendship comes with some caveats that most countries don\'t have to make because most countries don\'t face a threat to their existence, only their interests.\r\n\r\nI myself would put it differently - I\'d say it makes Israel a stronger ally than most, that they\'re willing to consider American interests even when they think their safety is implicated. But I agree with the underlying statement.','2003-04-30 00:38:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2301,1,3370,'209.83.111.68','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','I agree with your point about fantasy profits. What we now know about the oil cartel is that they operate by bribery. There is no reason to believe the drug cartel doesn\'t operate the same way. Look at alcohol prohibition.\r\n\r\nNow you are correct that knowing about the corruption (in the general as opposed to the specific) may not help in the defeat of prohibition. A case in point is the knowledge now comming out about Saddam\'s payoffs to journalists and politicians. Before the war it was not something people wanted to believe. Even now as facts come out it is still hard for some to accept. Joe and I have had some exchanges about the problem of not being able to see what you don\'t believe. Moses\' answer to this was 40 years in the desert. \r\n\r\nSo where does that leave us? My point of attack in the basic compassion of people. Medical marijuana referenda pass despite fierce government opposition. So we know the compassion is there. \r\n\r\nI think that is why what I have uncovered is so critical to ending prohibition. I show that drug use is about pain relief. It is no more a moral queston than anesthesia for surgery is a moral question.\r\n\r\nBribery only works for questions where there is little public interest or a resevoir of support for the position that the bribee takes.\r\n\r\nThey way to destroy the effectiveness of bribery (other than uncovering instances of it) is to change the interest and support for an issue.\r\n','2003-04-30 00:47:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2302,1,3398,'128.61.79.66','ditariel','ditariel@yahoo.com','','Awesome essay, but too bad you didn\'t finish. I\'ll throw in some topics you were probably going to add.\r\n\r\nUnlike France (not now...please), Israel will always feel indebted to the U.S. for allowing it to exist. Israel really doesn\'t anymore land. I can\'t imagine Israeli farmers wanting even more desert. By shouting \"Israeli oppressors\" at every oppurtunity they can, they try to downplay their \"kill Israel\" aggression documented in several wars.\r\n\r\nWe have no right to force Israel to do \"such and such...\", as it isn\'t a party to any arms agreements, whether Palestinians and Syrians freakin\' like it or not. Jews in Germany disarmed under Hitler, and look what happened. Nothing will make them do it again.\r\n\r\nHowever, I would advise Israel to get of the \"chemical weapons\" as they serve no purpose in deterrence.\r\n\r\nditariel\r\nYour local source of power.','2003-04-30 01:08:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2303,1,3398,'217.224.236.190','leo','antisemitismusstreit@gmx.de','http://www.antisemitismusstreit.tk/','I think today most agree that Israel had the right to a preemptive conventional attack against French-built Iraqi WMD capabilities 1981. Another possible consensus could be that it has no right of WMD first strike, same as any other country, but to retaliation against missile WMD. Probably there is no consensus what in case of a rogue WMD incident without return adress in Israel. \r\n\r\nAs Iraq is no threat any more, who needs to be deterred? Iran runs long distance missile programs and booted the Bushehr and Natanz nuclear facilities with Franco-German-Russian assistance. Pakistan, the \"Islamic physics laboratory\" beyond Israeli reach, requires to be regarded as a possible source for rogue WMD supply. North Korea at least must be considered as one who just out of opportunity could follow up in case of an Israeli retaliation strike. \r\n\r\nFrance isn\'t a threat to Israel currently, but has spread WMD and is politically heavily burdened with the influence of Islamic dictatorship in its former African colonies. The British Island has come close to the U.S. because Continental Europe started to consider itself \"a different model of the West\" (Schröder-advisor Egon Bahr) after the Marshall Plan launched coevally with the setup of Israel never challenged anti-Semitism.\r\n\r\nWhatever stance on Israeli WMD one has, everybody with a brain will agree that Iranian WMD must be abandoned first. Looking forward to Iraqi war-crime trials one might add that it could make sense when French WMD disarmament came next. However, a coverage of Iranian WMD will reveal further details on European and Russian proliferation policy.','2003-04-30 01:57:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2304,1,3391,'216.99.228.76','Sparkey','sparkey@sgtstryker.com','','I\'m sorry folks, I was able to get on the site, in both Internet Exploder and Netscrape. Starting at about 4pm CDT on 4/28/03 we were able to start posting and take comments. Ans it was up when I logged off at 1am CDT this morning...\r\n\r\nI have no idea why y\'all weren\'t able to get to the site. \r\n\r\nWeird...','2003-04-30 01:58:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2305,1,3393,'209.89.187.236','John','jtilley@canoemail.com','','Jay Currie\r\n\r\nCanada is an easy and important point of entry into the U.S. and is a also passive ally in that Canada is more anti-American than it is anti-terrorism. Alienating Canada would not be in the terrorists interest, while the bombing of a French ship was, in retrospect, a warning to France not to back the U.S. in it\'s impending war with Iraq. It worked too. ','2003-04-30 02:32:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2306,1,3396,'61.186.104.199','farreast','jfarreast@hotmail.com','','But who has the suitcase now. Obviously it did not continue on the ship to Canada.','2003-04-30 02:46:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2307,1,3396,'131.215.35.25','Erich Schwarz','emsch@its.caltech.edu','','On the one hand, good if true that this isn\'t anthrax.\r\n\r\nOn the other hand, what the heck did the Egyptian sailor die of? Exactly?\r\n\r\nAlso, if this was such a non-incident, why the alert to Interpol?\r\n\r\nIt\'d be nice to have the feeling that everybody was actually telling everything that they knew, straight, without any convenient lacunae. :^P','2003-04-30 02:56:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2308,1,3390,'68.66.195.90','harhar','harhar51@yahoo.com','','Vietnam: the first real media war.','2003-04-30 04:53:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2309,1,3400,'66.9.106.146','Jay Solo','jaysolo@mindspring.com','http://jaysolo.blogspot.com','Indeed! I made sure to link and point it out on my blog as soon as I\'d seen it. It had me in tears, as these things usually do.','2003-04-30 05:31:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2310,1,3378,'218.79.239.70','from china','abc@yarebad.usa','','I had dinner with a couple of doctors from Huashan hospital a couple of days ago---I now realize how dark and evil your souls are,esp. Trent Telenko!\r\n\r\na guy from shanghai','2003-04-30 12:10:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2311,1,3400,'12.253.10.228','zombyboy','resurrectionsong@yahoo.com','http://resurrectionsong.blog-city.com','C\'mon. It\'s Dean.\r\n\r\n\'nuff said.','2003-04-30 17:16:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2312,1,3378,'198.26.123.36','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Samuel Tai,\r\n\r\nI don\'t see anyone in the PLA nuking any Chinese city short of a full scale civil war, and that city would be Taipai.\r\n\r\nI do see a period of martial law as a possibility if SARS breaks down Chinese societal cohesion enough.\r\n\r\nThere are numerous reports of what amount to regional blockades of people goods and services and riots by rural folks against SARS detention centers.','2003-04-30 17:48:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2313,1,3396,'200.148.111.114','Alan Myatt','amyatt@pobox.com','http://imagoveritatis.myatts.net','I hope that the report from Belem is correct and that there is no anthrax. However, I should point out that a couple of years ago, when I still lived in Rio, an investigative report of a number of health labs in Brazil showed that they had a notorious capacity to return false lab results. The reliability of health lab tests in Brazil is highly questionable, and given that there is an obvious political motive for not finding any anthrax, I would hold out for confirmation from other sources before ruling it out. But I hope that my skepticism turns out to be unfounded.','2003-04-30 17:48:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2314,1,3378,'198.26.123.37','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.ent','','\"from china\" said:\r\n\r\n>I had dinner with a couple of doctors from \r\n>Huashan hospital a couple of days ago---\r\n\r\n\r\nIf you are going to bring that up. Tell us what they said.\r\n\r\n','2003-04-30 17:54:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2315,1,3378,'209.63.137.164','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','From China:\r\n\r\nYou may want to see the article at this link:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57610-2003Apr30.html\r\n\r\nNearly 10,000 Quarantined in SARS-Panicked Beijing\r\nReuters\r\nWednesday, April 30, 2003; 12:46 AM \r\nBy Juliana Liu and Amran Abocar\r\n\r\nBEIJING/TORONTO (Reuters) - Beijing, acknowledging mass panic had hit the SARS-infected city, quarantined more residents on Wednesday, but Toronto was jubilant after a warning against travel to Canada\'s financial capital was lifted.\r\n\r\nNearly 10,000 people in the Chinese capital were under quarantine after the city confined residents of one building in the heart of the capital and another in a northern suburb, state media said.\r\n\r\n(snip)','2003-04-30 18:39:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2316,1,3371,'216.82.163.100','Babylonian','sven@REMOVE.netpimp.com','http://www.newsfrombabylon.com','Perhaps Israel wouldn\'t be vulnerable to such charges if they signed up for inspections of their WMD production facilities at Dimona and Nes Ziona\r\n\r\nAs it stands, Israel has taken the posture of a rogue state and refuses to comply with UN resolutions calling them to place their WMD stocks under international observation\r\n\r\nCalling this theory that Israel might be researching bioweapons that are gene specific \"anti-semitic\" or \"blood libel\" is just total trash talk - \r\n\r\nThe majority of Jews don\'t live in Israel for a reason. They could get free money from the state of Israel if they did have any desire to emigrate. But they don\'t want to.\r\n\r\nThe right wing militaristic Israelis are thugs, IMO and wondering about how nuts they are doesn\'t reflect on the majority of Jews in any way shape or form.\r\nAmerican Jews as a whole don\'t agree with and can\'t control Sharon or Ze\'evi or Kahane followers, or any of those other right wing \"settler\" lunatics\r\n\r\n\r\nbest-','2003-04-30 22:49:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2317,1,3398,'216.82.163.100','Babylonian','sven@netpimp.com','http://www.newsfrombabylon.com','So a big part of my attitude toward Israel comes from my belief, which I believe is supported by facts, that (past the initial grant of territory in 1948) they have no territorial ambitions, and that if their neighbors would leave them in peace, they would most likely leave their neighbors in peace.\r\n\r\nSadly this is a mistaken assumption which I believe is supported by facts\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\"While the Yishuv\'s leadership formally accepted the 1947 Partition Resolution, large sections of Israel\'s society - including...Ben-Gurion - were opposed to or extremely unhappy with partition and from early on viewed the war as an ideal opportunity to expand the new state\'s borders beyond the UN earmarked partition boundaries and at the expense of the Palestinians.\" Israeli historian, Benny Morris, in \"Tikkun\", March/April 1998.\r\n\r\n\r\n\"In internal discussion in 1938 [David Ben-Gurion] stated that \'after we become a strong force, as a result of the creation of a state, we shall abolish partition and expand into the whole of Palestine\'...In 1948, Menachem Begin declared that: \'The partition of the Homeland is illegal. It will never be recognized. The signature of institutions and individuals of the partition agreement is invalid. It will not bind the Jewish people. Jerusalem was and will forever be our capital. Eretz Israel (the land of Israel) will be restored to the people of Israel, All of it. And forever.\" Noam Chomsky, \"The Fateful Triangle.\"','2003-05-01 04:19:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2318,1,3398,'68.161.51.206','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Babylonian, you\'ve wandered into that part of the blogosphere where quoting Noam Chomsky or anything from Tikkun gets you giggles or eye-rolling. (And BTW after the horrors of the new intifada, Benny Morris recanted.)\r\n\r\nTry again, with some real facts this time, instead of selective quotes and discredited propaganda. One real fact: Israel gave up the Sinai for a genuine peace treaty, so Israel has a track record of giving up land for peace. What do the Palestinians have a track record of?','2003-05-01 06:10:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2319,1,3396,'68.161.51.206','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','The Forward has been following the \"terrorism triangle\" connections with Al Qeda for several years now:\r\n\r\nWhat was the top leadership of Al Qaeda doing in Brazil during the mid-1990s?\r\n\r\nU.S. Hand Seen in Paraguay\'s Pursuit of Terrorism Suspect \r\n\r\nU.S. Joining Terrorism Probe Along Lawless Brazil Border\r\n\r\nTracking Terror\'s Money Trail in Lawless Frontier\r\n\r\nParaguay\'s Ciudad del Este, on a remote tropical plain near the borders of Brazil and Argentina, is the Shanghai of modern-day South America.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-01 06:24:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2320,1,3398,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','As noted above, Part II got written and deleted as uninteresting. I\'m doing some reading and will try again tomorrow.\r\n\r\nBut I wanted to quickly respond to the comments.\r\n\r\nDaniel, poikilotherm - Jeanne got it exactly right in interpreting what I meant to say. When given a choice between \"be an ally\" and \"survive\", most rational people will choose survival, and I think the Israelis would as well.\r\n\r\nleo - I think your regional analysis is interesting, and it\'s something I\'ll try and play on when I get this thing done. I think the cold reality is that keeping WMD out of Islamist hands is a game where stalling is the best we can do. This has implications...\r\n\r\nbabylonian - I\'m not sure we\'ll agree, certainly not based on what you present here. I think the origins of Israel are tragic, in the classical sense (i.e. good intentions leading to conflict). But just as a starter, I\'ll point out that from what I\'m reading now, partition wasn\'t seriously proposed until 1945...so exactly how was it that Ben-Gurion seriously planned for responding to it in 1938??\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-01 06:44:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2321,1,3404,'216.250.33.158','Ralph','rtacoma@allwest.net','','Two books of particular value are:\r\nYosef Bodansky\'s \"The High Price/Cost of Peace\"\r\n(I\'m doing this from memory --- someething always weak in my case! and don\'t have the book in front of me) and Stephen Schwartz\'s \"The Two Faces of Islam.\" Both, in my opinion, very well reasoned and thoroughly documented works that avoid the trap of portraying all mulim/arabs as \"all\r\nsaints\" or \"all demons.\'\r\n\r\nAll the Best,\r\n\r\n Ralph\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-01 07:47:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2322,1,3381,'24.27.72.143','Kevin Shaum','kevin@lazypundit.com','http://lazypundit.com/','Immune response to a virus can be stimulated by innoculating the subject with a weakened form of the virus, a sample that has been killed or chemically altered so that it is not a threat. Yet the virus remains identifiable, the body learns to produce antibodies, and the immune response is engaged whenever the real viral agent is encountered.\r\n\r\nThe memetic equivalent to this is obvious: satire. The target meme is rendered inoffensive through hyperbole or paradox, and potential hosts are innoculated with the neutered meme. Their immune response (skepticism, ridicule) is thereby developed, and comes into play whenever the original meme is encountered.\r\n\r\nSo Scott Ott, Chris Muir, and Cox and Forkum are actually the best anti-Idiotarian memetic engineers we have.','2003-05-01 10:30:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2323,1,3404,'216.76.27.35','Mike Plaiss','Mike_Plaiss@kyfbins.com','','My admiration for Tom Friedman waxes and wanes, but I nevertheless read everything he writes. \"From Beirut to Jerusalem\" is fantastic. It may seem a little dated having been written in 1990 but there is an updated chapter (which I haven\'t read yet). If you are looking for a good foundation of knowledge for the recent history of the Middle East this is a great place to start.\r\n\r\nBernard Lewis\' \"What Went Wrong\" is also very good. In my opinion the REAL battle being fought among the Arab peoples is one against modernity - it has manifested itself as a battle against the West. That is an underlying theme of the book, and Lewis is the best on the subject.\r\n\r\nHas anyone read Fouad Ajami\'s \"The Dream Palace of the Arabs\"? That is on my list, but I have about a thousand other books on my list and don\'t know if I need to bump this one to the top.\r\n','2003-05-01 14:28:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2324,1,3398,'216.82.163.253','babylonian','sven@netpimp.com','http://www.newsfrombabylon.com','Yehudit wrote:\r\nBabylonian, you\'ve wandered into that part of the blogosphere where quoting Noam Chomsky or anything from Tikkun gets you giggles or eye-rolling. (And BTW after the horrors of the new intifada, Benny Morris recanted.)\r\n\r\nThat\'s OK. I\'m familiar with the tactic of ignoring the fact that it\'s a quote from Ben Gurion and dodging the issue to go for ad hominems at Chomsky and Morris. It\'s often called avoiding the topic and going off onto a tangent of ad hominem attacks, and saying literally nothing of substance about the actual quotations.\r\n\r\nDo you have anything that refutes the Ben Gurion quotes, or many other quotes in the booklet published by Jews for Justice in the Middle East that they came from?\r\n\r\nTry again, with some real facts this time, instead of selective quotes and discredited propaganda. \r\n\r\nI haven\'t seen you actually discredit anything.. You\'ve just claimed with nothing to back it up that anything Morris or Chomsky say is automatically \"discredited\". \r\n\r\nNot that I don\'t respect your opinion or anything, but If you\'re going to claim to have discredited the quotes, I\'d like to see some evidence having to do with the Ben Gurion quotes themselves, not with the people who cited them. IMO it doesn\'t discredit the Ben Gurion quotes if you say you don\'t like Chomsky or Morris.\r\n\r\nOne real fact: Israel gave up the Sinai for a genuine peace treaty, so Israel has a track record of giving up land for peace. What do the Palestinians have a track record of?\r\n\r\nThe Palestinians have a track record of spending literally years upon years working for a land for peace deal, though perhaps not always in good faith... But for at least the past 20 years or more, they have been willing to recognize Israel\'s right to exist and are clearly open to a two state solution.\r\n\r\nMore importantly, however, Israel has a track record of also negotiating but, unlike the case with Egypt, never actually giving up the land, and in fact consistently taking more and more.\r\n\r\nIf Rabin hadn\'t been assassinated by right wing Israelis then maybe there would have been an agreement. Clearly there are extremists on both sides who have no interest in peace. Or if Ehud Barak had made a REAL offer such as \"here\'s 100% of your land back\" IMO there would be peace.. But when the Israeli offers are like \"oh here\'s 40% of your land back broken up into 20 pieces, criss-crossed by israeli roads and guard towers and surrounded by 25 foot walls\" it\'s no wonder it hasn\'t worked out as well as things did with Egypt. I hope it does one day soon.','2003-05-01 16:06:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2325,1,3398,'216.82.163.253','babylonian','sven@netpimp.com','http://www.newsfrombabylon.com','Armed Liberal wrote:\r\nbabylonian - I\'m not sure we\'ll agree, certainly not based on what you present here. I think the origins of Israel are tragic, in the classical sense (i.e. good intentions leading to conflict). But just as a starter, I\'ll point out that from what I\'m reading now, partition wasn\'t seriously proposed until 1945...so exactly how was it that Ben-Gurion seriously planned for responding to it in 1938??\r\n\r\n\"In 1937, British promises to Zionists and Arabs were considered irreconcilable by the Peel Commission. The mandate was judged unworkable and partition of Palestine was recommended. The Zionists unhappily approved, but the Arabs rejected it, chiefly because the proposal included the forced transfer of Arab population out of the proposed Jewish state.\"\r\n\r\n\r\nBTW I like your site :)','2003-05-01 16:11:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2329,1,3381,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','That\'s a very intelligent point. Thanks, Kevin!','2003-05-01 16:53:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2330,1,3404,'216.82.163.100','babylonian','sven@netpimp.com','http://www.newsfrombabylon.com','couple of interesting titles:\r\n\r\nThe Making of the Arab-Israeli Conflict 1947-51 by Ilan Pappe\r\n\r\nImage and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict by Norman G. Finkelstein\r\n\r\nand if you want something quick and on the web:\r\n\r\nThe Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict published by Jews for Justice in the Middle East','2003-05-01 17:43:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2331,1,3405,'207.168.131.179','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','If that\'s what he and his family wanted then I\'m glad they got it. Its sad in another way, I\'m sure his country could use a man like him to stay there right now too.','2003-05-01 17:50:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2332,1,3404,'216.26.3.136','Michael J. Totten','michaeltotten001@yahoo.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','\"Six Days of War\" by Michael Oren\r\n\r\n\"From Beirut to Jerusalem\" by Thomas Friedman\r\n\r\n\"The Dream Palace of the Arabs\" by Fouad Ajami\r\n\r\n\"What Went Wrong\" by Bernard Lewis\r\n\r\n\"God Has 99 Names\" by Judith Miller\r\n\r\n','2003-05-01 18:25:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2333,1,3404,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Bill -\r\n\r\nI find myself in almost perfect agreement with Berman in terms of his policy prescriptions and in my shared belief that fighting tyrranical Islamist theocracy (as opposed to democratic Muslim theocracy or democratic Jewish theocracy...just cause you\'re theocratic doesn\'t automatically make you intolerably oppressive)is an extremely progressive thing to do ... not only in our interest, but in the interest of the people who will be freed. And his points about what Bush has done wrong are well-taken as well.\r\n\r\nI just think he should have dug deeper in the Western roots of terror, and the non-Islamist factions that we face as well.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-01 18:31:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2334,1,3381,'207.73.72.119','Dean Esmay','dean@deanesmay.com','http://www.deanesmay.com','I\'ll second that motion. Well put indeed, Kevin!\r\n\r\nIn fact, speaking of Chris Muir, tomorrow on my blog I\'ll be featuring a cartoon by him that examines this very theme!\r\n\r\nEntirely by coincidence, of course. Or so I\'d have you believe....','2003-05-01 19:10:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2335,1,3403,'66.222.35.136','Ron McCabe','rpmccabe@tds.net','','This Guardian story lists ricin symptoms as similar to that of anthrax. As I recall intital reports listed a white powder. I think anthrax is more often brownish in color. \r\n\r\n\"Victims die from multiple organ failure and there is no known antidote or vaccine. \"\r\n\r\nOne way we have all seen (TV, movies) for checking for drugs is to taste the powder.\r\n\r\n\"The bioxtoxin works by shutting down protein synthesis in the body and takes four to eight hours to incubate after being eaten or inhaled, so a victim would not necessarily realise they were in potential peril at the moment of contact. \r\n\r\n\"The poison inhibits protein synthesis and has widespread toxic effects on the body, which include damage to most organ systems and a combination of pulmonary, liver, renal and immunological failure which may lead to death. \r\n\r\n\"The exact early symptoms depend on the route of exposure. In all cases, fever, gastrointestinal upset, and coughing will be amongst the first effects noted - but of course these are symptoms of any number of benign ailments. \r\n\r\n\"Absorption via inhalation as a result of exposure to the toxin in aerosol form leads to particularly serious lung damage including adult respiratory distress syndrome. \r\n\r\n\"Swallowing ricin causes gastroenteritis, bloody diarrhoea and vomiting. People poisoned by a large dose could die of shock after massive fluid loss through severe diarrhoea \"\r\n\r\nI\'m sure there was also a false alarm in Brazil of anthrax after Sept. 11.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-01 19:55:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2328,1,3404,'63.72.70.149','Bill Allison','ideofact@hotmail.com','http://ideofact.blogspot.com','I read Ajami. I enjoyed it immensely, although a good deal of it traces intellectual developments rather than social ones -- he focuses more on poets than politicians, in other words. \r\n\r\nI\'m a little surprised you find Berman so shallow. I think the argument he was constructing was aimed at demonstrating why the war on terror (and to a lesser extent the war on Saddam) is a progressive cause, and I think he succeeds admirably in this. While I too would have preferred that he spend more time tracing the Arab reception and implementation of the Western ideologies of totalitarianism and terror (beyond Qutb). I\'m finding a lot of the same pattern as I read about the great secular movement that competed with (and seemed to leave in the dust for awhile) Islamism -- until the 1967 war.\r\n\r\nI\'ll get around to doing a post on it one of these days, but Adeed Dawisha\'s Arab Nationalism in the Twentieth Century is, a think, an important book. There are limitations to it -- in his narrative, \"Palestinians\" as a distinct, Arab group with national ambitions make their first appearance in the 1920s without any comment from Dawisha that \"Palestine\" as a term was resurrected by the British from Roman times -- but in tracing the influences of the early Arab nationalists, their means and ends, one can see many of the same totalitarian ideas at work. As I said, there are limitations, some of which are maddening -- he ignores entirely the influence of National Socialism on the Ba\'ath party -- but it\'s still a worthwhile read.','2003-05-01 16:30:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2336,1,3404,'172.139.114.146','Dan Hartung','lakefxdan@aol.com','http://www.lakefx.nu/','Excellent background for history that isn\'t often covered in Western schoolbooks is Hourani\'s A History of the Arab Peoples. It\'s a cultural history more than a political one; as a survey of some 1200 years of time it tends to mention some things once if at all; the 20th century section is detailed in some places but vague in others; organization throughout is often non-linear. But it discusses without rancor and political spin much of the \"clash of civilizations\", coming across simply as an honest (and sometimes hard) look at the Arabs as they see themselves.\r\n\r\nI would also recommend The Ornament of the World: How Muslims, Jews and Christians Created a Culture of Tolerance in Medieval Spain, though while it doesn\'t seem exactly relevant is generally well reviewed.\r\n\r\nTo learn about Qutb you may as well start with at least skimming Social Justice in Islam (in which I believe he writes of his trip to America), or perhaps Milestones/Signposts, (though In the SHadow of the Koran is thorough it\'s huge) though it would probably be hard going (Ideofact\'s chapter-by-chapter reviews begun last year might be more efficient).\r\n\r\nBerman has a new book you might like, Terror and Liberalism, essentially a set of leftist dissent from the Dissent line, supporting the war on terror. And of course Fareed Zakaria\'s Illiberal Democracy takes a neoliberal perspective on the balance between the rule of law and popular majority rule.','2003-05-01 19:59:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2337,1,3404,'172.139.114.146','Dan Hartung','lakefxdan@aol.com','http://www.lakefx.nu/','Whoops, you mentioned Berman. Teach me to post without previewing.','2003-05-01 19:59:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2338,1,3404,'68.160.208.35','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Historic documents on the web pertaining to history of Israel.\r\n\r\nmore historical documents - Middle East: 1916-2001\r\n\r\nMyths and Facts (also has historic documents)\r\n\r\nAnne Bayefsky, human rights lawyer has a site about the UN with many documents.\r\n\r\nUNRWA site\r\n\r\nIsraeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs Official Israeli POV - documents, press releases , etc.\r\n\r\ncritique of Israel\'s \"New Historians.\"\r\n\r\nspeech by Michael Oren + great Q&A\r\n\r\nThe definitive intifada casualty analysis\r\n\r\ndebunking website about the Liberty incident (in case you start running across thousands of conspiracy sites about this)\r\n\r\nThis is dated but respected:\r\nArab and Jew: Wounded Spirits in a Promised Land.\r\n\r\nBackground/context of Jews in the Middle East:\r\nCultures of the Jews: A New History\r\n\r\n','2003-05-01 21:26:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2339,1,3398,'168.39.181.211','Daniel','kafka26@justice.com','http://trivialpursuits.blogspot.com','Babylonian,\r\n\r\nFirst of all, pointing out the bias and selectivity of the source is an accepted tactic of impeachment. It is ipso facto not argument ad hominem. That does not by itself mean that the propositions asserted are invalid, but it is certainly relevant to point out that the quote you rely on comes from Benny Morris, who not only is a revisionist historian (and I like some of the work the revisionists do), but whose methods and techniques have been criticized as sloppy.\r\n\r\nYou also conveniently ignore Yehudit\'s point that Morris himself has recanted various of his more outlandish propositions after the latest intifada.\r\n\r\nSecond, I question what \"large sections\" of Israeli society means in the quotation. Surely, some had notions of a Greater Israel, including perhaps Ben-Gurion himself, but I find the claim that large sections of Israelis at that time wanted to invade neighboring Arab nations to expand Israeli territory exceedingly dubious. Don\'t forget; biblical Israel extended well across the Jordan River.\r\n\r\nThird, I\'m not sure what Morris\'s analysis, even if true, establishes. So there were Israelis who wanted more land. So what? AL\'s initial point referred to the period PAST 1948, and Morris\'s analysis refers to the War of Independence itself. AL\'s point is that once the 1948 war had ended, the majority of the Israeli polity did not seek to expand its territory by invading other sovereigns, or by seizing additional territory from the Palestinians. Nothing Morris says refutes this, even if he is accurate.\r\n\r\nFourth, even if individual Israelis did have territorial ambitions, it doesn\'t follow that they EVER, post-1948, acted on them without provocation. Any territory Israel obtained post-1948 was a direct result of Arab aggression. AL\'s point is therefore accurate in terms of history if not politics.\r\n\r\nFifth, I\'d like to say something about Israel\'s capture of East Jerusalem and the Temple Mount in 1967: while Jordan occupied East Jerusalem, they desecrated Jewish cemeteries and used the Kotel as a latrine. Promptly after capturing control of all of Jerusalem in 1967, Israel returned control of the Temple Mount, the spiritual center of Judaism, to the Waqf. I can think of no gesture whatsoever, on the part of any Arab or Muslim nation or leader, that even comes close to the kind of concession relinquishing control of the Mount under such circumstances constitutes.\r\n\r\nWhatever territorial ambitions Israel has or has had, their willingess to turn control over the holiest site in Judaism (which is NOT the Kotel, contrary to popular belief, but the Temple Mount itself) is a territorial concession the likes of which has not been seen in the entire history of the conflict, before or since.','2003-05-01 21:48:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2340,1,3398,'168.39.181.211','Daniel','kafka26@justice.com','http://trivialpursuits.blogspot.com','Cont\'d\r\n\r\nBut for at least the past 20 years or more, they have been willing to recognize Israel\'s right to exist and are clearly open to a two state solution.\r\n\r\nReally? Last I checked, the PLO Charter still does not recognize Israel\'s right to exist.\r\n\r\nYour statement is vastly oversimplified. To be sure, there are many Palestinians who recognize Israel\'s right to exist. But there are many who do not. Therefore, to say that \"the Palestinians\" recognize Israel\'s right to exist begs the question. There are, IMO, far too many, both Palestinians and in the Arab world at large, who most certainly do not support Israel\'s right to exist.\r\n\r\nHopefully, Abu Mazen does, and he will be able to actually proffer something meaningful on security. We shall see; I am not optimistic (not b/c of the Palestinians, per se, but I am simply deeply pessimistic about the entire process).','2003-05-01 21:56:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2341,1,3407,'199.168.33.60','Robin Roberts','finalprotfire@attbi.com','','To boil it down further, arab states have called and in some cases still call for the destruction of Israel. Israel has not called for the destruction of any Arab state. Arab states have fielded armies for the purpose of destroying Israel. Israel has not fielded any army for the purpose of destroying any Arab state.','2003-05-01 22:07:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2342,1,3407,'168.39.181.211','Daniel','kafka26@justice.com','http://trivialpursuits.blogspot.com','Bravo, AL! Nuanced, thoughtful analysis.','2003-05-01 22:22:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2343,1,3407,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','The core of this problem is very, very simple. It has nothing to do with weapons, and to a large extent the weapons are a distraction.\r\n\r\nAs long as the Arab world believes in destroying the state of Israel and killing many of its inhabitants, and pressures other states to facilitate their aim, and Arabs remain steeped in hate propaganda designed to create such beliefs, then THAT is the problem.\r\n\r\nGenocidal hate is the problem. The question of weapons is just a question of relative means.\r\n\r\nAs long as that remains true, therefore, Israel will develop WMDs and not give them up. Would, in fact, be beyond stupid to do so. There is NO guarantee, including the USA\'s, that it could afford to rely on.\r\n\r\nBut this same issue indirectly feeds into the \"comfort level\" debate in the USA as well, hence the discussion about \"right to WMD\". \r\n\r\nThe reason the USA wishes to keep these weapons out of the hands of Islamic countries who preach this hate is ridiculously obvious after 9/11. Let\'s see, suicidal Islamist blood-cult that hates Americans and shown a willingness to cause mass casualties in America wants nuclear weapons and other WMDs. If the USA believed Israel\'s nuclear weapons presented a similar potential threat via Jewish terrorists in New York, Los Angeles et. al., it would be looking at a war against Israel. Obviously, it doesn\'t.\r\n\r\nCountries don\'t have rights. It\'s a fictional concept. Countries may be protected by agreed-upon rules of behaviour, as long as their actions don\'t create enough of a problem to justify throwing the rules away in the eyes of interested and capable parties.\r\n\r\nAny country can choose to develop weapons of mass destruction. Its neighbours, and capable global powers like the USA, can in return choose their response. That it. That\'s all.','2003-05-01 22:33:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2344,1,3398,'68.160.208.35','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','First of all, I\'m not impressed by selective quotes of Ben Gurion\'s, especially when selected by Chomsky. Which is what I said.\r\n\r\n\"But for at least the past 20 years or more, they have been willing to recognize Israel\'s right to exist and are clearly open to a two state solution.\"\r\n\r\nReally? I don\'t know which is the latest revision of the PLO Charter, or the PA Constitution, or whatever it is now, but I doubt the version of 20 years ago recognized the state of Israel. But if you can find a copy on the web, let\'s see it.\r\n\r\nIf they truly want a 2-state solution, why are there several attempted suicide bombings every day, which push moderate Israelis into a more hardened stance? Why do they teach their children to hate and kill Jews? Why don\'t they demonstrate they can eradicate the loose cannons perpetuating the terror? If they can\'t, or if the \"loose cannons\" are part of Arafat\'s infrastructure, why should they be trusted with a state? Why don\'t they demonstrate they can run a state by getting rid of that murderous thug who steals their money and puts it in his Swiss account, and won\'t delegate power?\r\n\r\n\"More importantly, however, Israel has a track record of also negotiating but, unlike the case with Egypt, never actually giving up the land, and in fact consistently taking more and more.\"\r\n\r\nIsrael is willing to give up land in response to a true peace, which includes cessation of terror for long enough that it is clear that the pattern of terrorism has stopped. This has not occurred. \r\n\r\n\"Or if Ehud Barak had made a REAL offer such as \"here\'s 100% of your land back\" IMO there would be peace.\"\r\n\r\nYou reveal your preconceptions with the phrase \"your land back.\" Israel tried to give the land back to its most recent rulers, Jordan and Egypt, who wouldn\'t take it. You can argue about whether the state ruling that area should be run by Jews or Arabs, but the facts are: the last time it was an autonomous country, it was called Judea, and \"Palestine\" was never a country, only a designation for a region administered by various empires. The local Arabs started calling themselves Palestinians when the local Jews started calling themselves Israelis.\r\n\r\nIf we are going to talk of giving specific land \"back\" to individuals, tribes, or familes, then we have to ask: how far back are we going to honor land claims? and the whole area would look like a patchwork quilt, with some currently \"Palestinian\" land given back to the Jews, ex. Hebron. And if we extended this principle to Lebanon, Jordan, and Saudi . . . should we give Medina back to the Jews too?\r\n\r\nFinally, about Barak\'s offer:\r\nCamp David negotiations collapse\r\nCamp David: The Tragedy of Errors\r\nBarak responds\r\nDennis Ross responds\r\nThe authors counter-respond\r\nBenny Morris, Ehud Barak counter-respond\r\n','2003-05-01 22:34:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2345,1,3398,'68.160.208.35','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Good points, Daniel. Speaking of the Temple Mount, if Arafat &Co. want to show good intentions, they can begin by stopping the willful destruction of archeological evidence of Jewish occupation of the Mount.','2003-05-01 22:49:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2346,1,3407,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Joe:\r\n\r\nThe question of whether nations have \'rights\' is actually a pretty interesting one, and one that illuminates the difference between the European and U.S. positions on a number of things...\r\n\r\n...but in this case, you\'re right. A more direct way to rephrase would be:\r\n\r\n\"Will the U.S. tolerate Israeli WMD?\"\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-01 23:01:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2347,1,3407,'24.233.51.128','Aziz','azizhp@com.yahoo','http://unmedia.blogspot.com','I\'d say that the Arab states are outlawed from WMD from a strictly pragmatic perspective. They centralize responsibility at the \"executive\" level. In other words, dictators and madmen shouldnt have their fingers on the button. \r\n\r\nI think its equally pragmatic to assert that Israeli nukes are not really in any danger of being misused (not the same way that, say, a Pakistani nuke potentially could be).\r\n\r\nIm more interested in the Israeli WMD question from the angle of, \"does it need them to achieve its security goals\" (firmly placing it as a defensive issue). But of course given Israel\'s arms relationship to China, you have to wonder if there wont ultimately be transfer of technologyy outwards, obviously not to other Middle East states (that would threaten Israel as well), but other regions like Central Asia.','2003-05-02 00:07:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2348,1,3404,'65.210.86.226','Ben F','benf-dc@starpower.net','','1) Read the 1968 PLO Covenant (available everywhere). For bonus points, read the 1964 covenant as well.\r\n\r\n2) Read the 9/93 exchange of letters between Rabin and Arafat (available everywhere)\r\n\r\n3) Go to the Facts / Documents page at the Palestine Affairs Council.\r\n\r\n4) Look at the January 1998 letter from Arafat to Clinton that explains which portions of the Covenant are kaput. Read and reread this in conjunction with items 1 and 2 until you really understand, conceptually, what Arafat, Abu Mazen, and the rest of the PLO leadership told Rabin in order to get him to recognize the PLO. For bonus points, read the speech Clinton gave in Gaza on December 14, 1998 when that letter was ratified pursuant to the Wye River accords.\r\n\r\n5) Scroll up to the June 1999 report by the Pal. Ministry of Information on the status of the Charter. Read it. It\'s also available at the top of a Key Issues page on the ministry\'s website, but the site is frequently down. The Arabic version of this report seems to be off-line, but I have a copy if you need one.\r\n\r\nWhat more is there to say? Peace becomes possible the moment the Palestinian leadership repudiates document 5 and conforms its conduct to document 4.','2003-05-02 01:06:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2349,1,3398,'216.82.163.100','babyonian','sven@netpimp.com','http://www.newsfrombabylon.com','Daniel wrote:\r\nFirst of all, pointing out the bias and selectivity of the source is an accepted tactic of impeachment. It is ipso facto not argument ad hominem. \r\n\r\nthanks for the correction, my mistake\r\n\r\neither way it seems a little shifty to attack Morris and Chomsky and ignore the whole point, the quotes of Begin and Ben Gurion, and what has happened to make those quotes come true since then\r\n\r\nDaniel wrote:\r\nYou also conveniently ignore Yehudit\'s point that Morris himself has recanted various of his more outlandish propositions after the latest intifada.\r\n\r\nYes I didn\'t quite know what to make of it because to me, what she said was vague. Is she saying Morris recanted the quotation I cited? Did he recant some thing else totally unrelated to this discussion that has no bearing on the point at hand? (shrug). It seemed like more extraneous tangential info, but maybe Yehudit can fill us in?\r\n\r\nDaniel wrote:\r\nSecond, I question what \"large sections\" of Israeli society means in the quotation. Surely, some had notions of a Greater Israel, including perhaps Ben-Gurion himself, but I find the claim that large sections of Israelis at that time wanted to invade neighboring Arab nations to expand Israeli territory exceedingly dubious.\r\n\r\nWell to me that is again, a tangent. I\'m not saying large sections of Israeli society have notions of a Greater Israel/Eretz Yisrael etc\r\n\r\nBut I think the evidence shows that the people currently running the place, and the settlers leading them around do.\r\n\r\nIn fact in regards to the \"large sections\" issue, I\'ve read stories about opinion polls that say:\r\n\r\n\"According to June\'s findings by Mina Zemach, Israel\'s foremost pollster, 63% of Israelis are in favor of \"unilateral withdrawal.\" In fact, 69% call for the evacuation of \"all\" or \"most of\" the settlements.\" .. article continues citing other polls saying basically the same thing\r\n\r\nDaniel wrote:\r\nDon\'t forget; biblical Israel extended well across the Jordan River.\r\n\r\nTo me that\'s irrelevant. Most of the Israelis are secular too and I don\'t think they base their politics on what some dusty old story book says.\r\n\r\nDaniel wrote:\r\nThird, I\'m not sure what Morris\'s analysis, even if true, establishes. So there were Israelis who wanted more land. So what? AL\'s initial point referred to the period PAST 1948, and Morris\'s analysis refers to the War of Independence itself. AL\'s point is that once the 1948 war had ended, the majority of the Israeli polity did not seek to expand its territory by invading other sovereigns, or by seizing additional territory from the Palestinians. Nothing Morris says refutes this, even if he is accurate.\r\n\r\nWell the so what is that some Israelis want more land and steadily the government has been bulldozing towns and houses and building settlements on the land. Sure, Israel\'s government describes everything they do as defensive. I just don\'t buy that it\'s \"defensive\" to blow up or bulldoze the house of people that A) never did anything wrong or B) who allegedly did something wrong and have been dead for 4-6 months already. \r\n\r\nMaybe you could make an argument that the sezure of the Sinai was defensive, but how is building settlements on it defensive. It seem to me that\'s quite offensive, and a violation of the Geneva convention on top of it.\r\n\r\nFurthermore I don\'t necessarily accept that 1967 was completely a defensive war. Egypt\'s airforce was destroyed while it was on the ground. Look what Rabin apparently said:\r\n\r\n\"I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it.\" Yitzhak Rabin, Israel\'s Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68\r\n\r\nThere are a lot of other quotes from the NY Times, and from various other authors that I\'m sure some readers will find some objection to:\r\n\r\n\"The main danger which Israel, as a \'Jewish state\', poses to its own people, to other Jews and to its neighbors, is its ideologically motivated pursuit of territorial expansion and the inevitable series of wars resulting from this aim...No zionist politician has ever repudiated Ben-Gurion\'s idea that Israeli policies must be based (within the limits of practical considerations) on the restoration of Biblical borders as the borders of the Jewish state.\" Israeli professor, Israel Shahak, \"Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of 3000 Years.\"','2003-05-02 02:16:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2350,1,3398,'216.82.163.100','Babylonian','sven@netpimp.com','http://www.newsfrombabylon.com','Cont\'d\r\n\r\nDaniel wrote:\r\nYour statement is vastly oversimplified. To be sure, there are many Palestinians who recognize Israel\'s right to exist. But there are many who do not. Therefore, to say that \"the Palestinians\" recognize Israel\'s right to exist begs the question. There are, IMO, far too many, both Palestinians and in the Arab world at large, who most certainly do not support Israel\'s right to exist.\r\n\r\nWell when I said \"The Palestinians recognize Israel\'s right to exist\", I mean that the majority of the Palestinian population as well as the current leadership all do, and at Oslo the basis they were negotiating on was a return to pre-1967 borders. The opinion polls of the Palestinian people are sort of the flip side of the Israeli poll I posted earlier.. They said that a majority of Palestinians wanted to have peace and were willing to recognize Israel if they got their land back and the settlements were pulled. So basically the majority of Israelis and Palestinians are on the same page. But not the radicals on either side. And unfortunately the current Israeli leadership is fairly radical, and I don\'t believe they are actually interested in peace.\r\n\r\nDaniel wrote:\r\nThere are, IMO, far too many, both Palestinians and in the Arab world at large, who most certainly do not support Israel\'s right to exist.\r\n\r\nWell I don\'t really blame them. I question the right of Israel to exist as a \"Jewish state\". I question the right of Saudi Arabia to be a \"muslim state\". If France declared itself a \"christian nation\" and said that a Christian trust would own all the land exclusively for the Christians, and only christians could emigrate, I would question their right to do so. Wouldn\'t you?\r\n\r\nI\'m for a one state solution. One man, one vote, one state. It seems to me that was the solution in South Africa. Not partitioning the people and going separatist.\r\n\r\nIt seems to me that the idea of a \"Jewish state\" goes against the original spirit of Zionism which wasn\'t about having a state for Jews only, as far as I know. The original Zionists were moving to a place they referred to as Palestine to live among the people who already lived there and that was all well and good, until the whole Jewish State thing came about. And I think it\'s not evem good for the Jewish people, it creates anti-semitism.','2003-05-02 02:57:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2351,1,3407,'64.12.96.104','Tom Donelson','tjkbd52302@aol.com','','The problem with our nuclear proliferation is that certain states are not a threat with nuclear weapons and some are. There is a difference between Israel, England or France and North Korea have the bomb. \r\n\r\nThe key to nuclear proliferation is three fold:\r\nFirst if possible regime change for certain countries is a necessity. \r\nSecond, a nuclear program should concentrate on restricting rogue states from getting nuclear weapons. \r\nThird, SDI should be accepted and expanded among our allies. This reduces the utlity of missles technology. \r\n\r\nGood piece,\r\n\r\nTom Donelson','2003-05-02 03:46:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2352,1,3378,'218.79.238.6','from China','hatebloobsuckers@china.com','http://follishness prevails','trent telenko\r\n\r\ni dont want to help you fabricate stories, why didnt you just say that you are eager to see many many people die of SARS in China--i can read in your lines that you hope the number of death cases will be as, or much much bigger than, the number of unarmed iraqi people brutally slaughtered(so great, I see American people wildly happy today on TV today, celebrating the killing of enemies, whenBW Bush declared the end of the invasion), you can do endless unsypathetic and disgusting fabrication as you wish.\r\n\r\nbtw,i know the SARS statistics, and i got it from chiese websites\r\n\r\nfrom china','2003-05-02 04:35:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2353,1,3407,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Aziz -\r\n\r\nI have a hard time imagining Israel transferring WMD tech outward (although the whole South African nuke issue may lean against that); it would be the deathknell for their relatiuonship with the U.S., and while they don\'t need us militarily, they sure need us economically.\r\n\r\nTom -\r\n\r\nI\'m a lot more *worried* about TEU-loads of nukes (a 20\' shipping container) than I am about a hypothetical ICBM.\r\n\r\nThe SDI effort is interesting tech, and I\'d probably spend enough to keep development on a simmer. Deployment at this point in time, with this maturity of tech isn\'t really sensible, I think.\r\n\r\nA.L. ','2003-05-02 04:41:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2354,1,3398,'216.82.163.100','Babylonian','sven@netpimp.com','http://www.newsfrombabylon.com','Yehudit wrote:\r\nIf they truly want a 2-state solution, why are there several attempted suicide bombings every day, which push moderate Israelis into a more hardened stance?\r\n\r\nWhy did Herschel Grynszpan shoot the Nazi foreign service officer 1938? Why did the Warsaw ghetto uprising happen? Why did the Irish Republican partisan fighting which began with pistols and rifles eventually escalate to the point where they set off 1000kg car bombs in the middle of London? Are all the Irish guilty for what the IRA did? \"Why didn\'t they stop them?\"\r\n\r\nBecause, in any situation with grievances and occupation and deportation, etc the majority of people want peace, there are still quite a number of radicals that either oppose diplomacy or formal peace process, and think they can win by forcefully driving the other back, the way the Irgun and others drove the British out of what was then Palestine. The longer the grievance continues, the more the violence will escalate.\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nWhy do they teach their children to hate and kill Jews?\r\n\r\nWell I don\'t think that practice is limited to the Palestinians. I think all sides do that. You have right-wing Israelis like Ze\'evi who call the Palestinians \"lice\" and \"cancer\" (who ironically was the minister of tourism under sharon!) and what do you think he taught his kids? Do you doubt that the kids who live in really hard core settlements get indoctrinated in school politically? I mean there are a lot of heavily armed Kahane admirers over there, lets not hide our eyes from that reality. Sometimes they blow things up \r\n\r\n\"A radical right-wing Jewish group claimed responsibility for the explosion that injured 29 Palestinian children, Israeli army radio said.\"\r\n\r\nIt seems like that naturally happens when people view themselves as victims. They hate the people they view as their oppressors and that gets passed on to their children. As an American Jew I was taught in subtle and not so subtle ways to hate Germans.. wasn\'t everyone?\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nWhy don\'t they demonstrate they can eradicate the loose cannons perpetuating the terror?\r\n\r\nI think they would get killed themselves, like Rabin did, like Sadat did, if they tried to squash the terrorism without getting the land back. I figure that once Palestine exists as a state, the vast majority of radicals will focus their energy on infighting and building their state, and it will be much easier to control the remaining hold outs.\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nWhy don\'t they demonstrate they can run a state by getting rid of that murderous thug who steals their money and puts it in his Swiss account, and won\'t delegate power?\r\n\r\num they had every chance to get rid of him if they wanted to. they voted for him. he\'s the father of their country\r\n\r\nThe US and other international observers monitored the election process.\r\n\r\nAs for the accusations of him stealing money, I don\'t know if I accept that he really did, and if he did that is their problem if they decide to vote for him anyway, not mine.\r\n\r\nAs far as Arafat being a \"murderous thug\" is he really worse than Begin and others blowing up the King David hotel, the massacre at Deir Yassin and other such incidents over the years ? It\'s all disgusting as far as I\'m concerned.\r\n\r\nI really don\'t believe that Arafat controls the suicide bombers the way you seem to suggest. More often than not their actions work against Arafat. They hate his guts for conceding Israel\'s right to exist among other things. But once Palestine exists as a formal state I think most of them will be pacified, making the task of controlling them much easier.\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nIsrael is willing to give up land in response to a true peace, which includes cessation of terror for long enough that it is clear that the pattern of terrorism has stopped. This has not occurred.\r\n\r\nThat\'s backwards. The process is called \"Land for Peace\" for a reason - it\'s not called \"Peace for a chance at maybe getting only 40% or less of the Land, if we feel like it\"\r\n\r\nAny way how can we reasonably expect Arafat with his limited resources to stop all the suicide bombers for extended periods of time when:\r\n\r\n1) Israel can\'t stop them either with more resources than Palestine is likely to have\r\n2) Israel can\'t stop their own citizens from killing their own Prime Minister or from blowing up schools\r\n3) even the US with things that Palestine will never have, such as the NSA, often can\'t stop people like McVeigh and other Militia types who shoot abortion doctors and hide in the woods, or the 19 terrorists from 911, or even a couple of snipers in a car with a hole in the trunk\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nYou reveal your preconceptions with the phrase \"your land back.\" Israel tried to give the land back to its most recent rulers, Jordan and Egypt, who wouldn\'t take it. \r\n\r\nAccording to the UN partition plan Palestine belongs to the Palestinians. If I have a preconception that is the root of it. Israel has had chance after chance to give the land back but never has. To me, that\'s the bottom line.\r\nThe process is called \"Land for Peace\" and the land has never been given back, hence there has been no lasting peace. There have been a couple of years here and there with no major attacks though. Yet the land didn\'t go back.\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nYou can argue about whether the state ruling that area should be run by Jews or Arabs, but the facts are: the last time it was an autonomous country, it was called Judea, and \"Palestine\" was never a country, only a designation for a region administered by various empires. The local Arabs started calling themselves Palestinians when the local Jews started calling themselves Israelis.\r\n\r\nThis is starting to sound like that famous Golda Meier quote about how \"Palestinians don\'t exist\". To me, playing word games like this don\'t really help, they are a waste of time, and they kind of remind me of some kind of scary delusional history. I hate to make the comparison but it almost reminds me of holocaust revisionism.\r\n\r\nThe underlying message seems to be \"well we can\'t be doing any injustice to the Palestinians because there ARE no Palestinians\"\r\n\r\nCall the people whatever you want, but the UN partition plan gave more than half the land of Palestine to the Israelis who were a minority in the region, and either the Israelis respect the fact that the UN gave them their very existance as a state, and honor the resolutions or they should just be open about it, and declare themselves a rogue state that doesn\'t honor commitments it has made.\r\n\r\nIf we are going to talk of giving specific land \"back\" to individuals, tribes, or familes, then we have to ask: how far back are we going to honor land claims?\r\n\r\nBut that\'s not what I\'m talking about. I\'m talking about UN agreements and resolutions that Israel agreed to when it was admitted into the UN and since.\r\n\r\nWe don\'t want to dig up all that ancient history. We\'re trying to solve this problem right? Not add new problems to the pile.\r\n\r\nTo me, the arguments about Jerusalem, the temples, mosques, etc are kind of riduclous, the UN declared it to be an international city, not controlled by either Israel or Palestine. It\'s not on the table for negotiation legally speaking.\r\n\r\n\r\n\"The extended kingdoms of David and Solomon, on which the Zionists base their territorial demands, endured for only about 73 years...Then it fell apart...[Even] if we allow independence to the entire life of the ancient Jewish kingdoms, from David\'s conquest of Canaan in 1000 B.C. to the wiping out of Judah in 586 B.C., we arrive at [only] a 414 year Jewish rule.\" Illene Beatty, \"Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan.\"\r\n\r\n\r\n\"Palestine became a predominately Arab and Islamic country by the end of the seventh century. Almost immediately thereafter its boundaries and its characteristics - including its name in Arabic, Filastin - became known to the entire Islamic world, as much for its fertility and beauty as for its religious significance...In 1516, Palestine became a province of the Ottoman Empire, but this made it no less fertile, no less Arab or Islamic...Sixty percent of the population was in agriculture; the balance was divided between townspeople and a relatively small nomadic group. All these people believed themselves to belong in a land called Palestine, despite their feelings that they were also members of a large Arab nation...Despite the steady arrival in Palestine of Jewish colonists after 1882, it is important to realize that not until the few weeks immediately preceding the establishment of Israel in the spring of 1948 was there ever anything other than a huge Arab majority. For example, the Jewish population in 1931 was 174,606 against a total of 1,033,314.\" Edward Said, \"The Question of Palestine.\" (from here)','2003-05-02 04:43:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2355,1,3407,'203.6.164.50','Russell','russell_leslie@yahoo.com.au','','Each of the Arab countries in question are signatories of \r\n\r\n1. The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons\r\n2. The Chemical Weapons Convention and\r\n3. The Biological Weapons Convention.\r\n\r\nEach of them, therefore, has voluntarily accepted the restriction. They have voluntarily foresworn the right to hold any of these classes of WMD. No argument on basic \"rights\" is required - the Arab states voluntarily gave up those rights.\r\n\r\nIsrael has refused to sign these treaties - therefore Israel has never voluntarily given up any perceived right to hold them and the argument of \"illegality\" doesn\'t arise (the only other non-signatory States of the NPT are India and Pakistan). The Arab States submitted themselves to laws and have to abide by them - Israel didn\'t and so (arguably) doesn\'t.\r\n\r\nRussell\r\n','2003-05-02 05:01:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2356,1,3398,'67.9.167.88','Daniel','kafka26@justice.com','http://trivialpursuits.blogspot.com','Babylonian,\r\n\r\nBut I think the evidence shows that the people currently running the place, and the settlers leading them around do.\r\n\r\nI think this is way off. In his heart of hearts, I\'m sure Sharon would rather not concede land. But that\'s not the reality. As you note, the Israeli polity overwhelmingly supports disbanding the settlements, and the same polity has also show sensitivity to the cease-fire process itself--consider how Sharon got elected.\r\n\r\nSharon is a realist and a politician, whatever his personal thoughts may be. If he does not give the Israeli public what it plainly wants-a cease-fire that includes disbanding the settlements, he knows they\'ll just vote him out of office and elect someone who will.\r\n\r\nYour assertion that \"the settlers lead the government\" is woefully inaccurate, IMO. The vast majority of Israeli society views the settlers as radicals at least, and dangerous extremists at worst. Sharon may ideologically be closer to the settlers than the doves, but he\'s a politican in a democracy, and only an idiot couldn\'t see which way the wind is blowing.\r\n\r\nSharon knows full well the settlements will have to go in large part. The settlers hardly run the government in any way, shape or form.\r\n\r\nMy point about biblical Israel is not justification for land expansion, but to point out that if Israel really had territorial ambitions, they would have extended FAR beyond the current boundaries.\r\n\r\nI just don\'t buy that it\'s \"defensive\" to blow up or bulldoze the house of people that A) never did anything wrong or B) who allegedly did something wrong and have been dead for 4-6 months already.\r\n\r\nThe homes they bulldoze belong to people who gave succor to terrorists, who knowingly supported and associated with persons who they knew were planning to indiscriminately kill women and children. Is it defensive? No. It\'s retributive. The notion is that if you willingly associate with murderers of women and children, you are an accessory before the fact.\r\n\r\nIn any case, Alan Dershowitz makes mincemeat of this argument in his latest book. \r\n\r\nI think you mistake me as a supporter of the settlements, Bab. That\'s not so at all; I\'m more than happy to disband them.\r\n\r\nFurthermore I don\'t necessarily accept that 1967 was completely a defensive war. Egypt\'s airforce was destroyed while it was on the ground. \r\n\r\nIMO, this is the most fallacious proposition of your argument. EVERYONE, including the various \r\nArab states themselves, admits they were on the verge of invading. The fact that Nasser did not really want war is completely immaterial. He sent divisions into Sinai b/c he knew full well most of the rest of the Arab world was going to invade, and he needed to proffer at least token support for that effort.\r\n\r\nIt\'s burying one\'s head in the sand, IMO, to question whether Israel was defending itself by launching the Six-Day-War. Israel destroyed Egypt and Syria\'s air forces on the ground b/c they did precisely what those nations least expected: they attacked, before the Arab armies could attack.\r\n\r\nLet me get this straight: in the face of a patently obvious and huge military massing on the borders of Israel, in the face of indisputable intelligence on what was planned, you think Israel had no right to take the fight to the putative aggressors?\r\n\r\nThat\'s preposterous, IMO.\r\n\r\nI don\'t disagree that a majority of Palestinians support Israel\'s right to exist. But why does poll after poll consistently show high levels of support for the suicide bombings? Not for Hamas, per se, which accomplishes lots of good in the territories, but for the suicide bombings explicitly?\r\n\r\nWell I don\'t really blame them. I question the right of Israel to exist as a \"Jewish state\". I question the right of Saudi Arabia to be a \"muslim state\". If France declared itself a \"christian nation\" and said that a Christian trust would own all the land exclusively for the Christians, and only christians could emigrate, I would question their right to do so. Wouldn\'t you?\r\n\r\nI don\'t question that right at all, in any way, shape, or form. The existence of a Jewish state is the only realpolitik way to prevent another attempted genocide of the Jewish people. S. Arabia can be a muslim state if it wants, but it is a theocracy and Israel is not, so the analogy does not square.\r\n\r\nBab, 1.5 million Israeli Arabs live inside the borders of Israel. Your analogy is simply fallacious, b/c the land is not exclusively reserved for Jews. France is also a *tad* bigger than Israel, so it is a completely different situation. If Israel was the size of France, I doubt the conflict would appear the way it does today.\r\n\r\nThe examples you proffer are not similar enough in the salient aspects to constitute sound analogy.\r\n\r\nI\'m for a one state solution. One man, one vote, one state.\r\n\r\nI\'m not. I\'ve blogged on this before; two-state solution is the only viable one, if any is. In any case, it\'s not going to happen, so it\'s moot.\r\n\r\nI love the fact that Israel is a Jewish state. I think a Jewish state is absolutely crucial to the survival of the Jewish people. And I wouldn\'t have it any other way. \r\n\r\nSo I think we have quite a fundamental disagreement.','2003-05-02 05:32:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2357,1,3398,'216.82.163.100','Babylonian','sven@netpimp.com','http://www.newsfrombabylon.com','Daniel wrote:\r\nI don\'t question that right at all, in any way, shape, or form. The existence of a Jewish state is the only realpolitik way to prevent another attempted genocide of the Jewish people.\r\n\r\nby trying to concentrate them all in a tiny piece of land so they\'re all in one place, and then pissing off all the neighbors? To me that seems to be a recipe for further genocide. \r\n\r\nWhat\'s wrong with living peacefully in a multicultural society? It works for my family.\r\n\r\nThat\'s the recipe for security of the Jewish people? It\'s even causing major backlash for diaspora Jews.\r\n\r\nI had written:\r\nFurthermore I don\'t necessarily accept that 1967 was completely a defensive war. Egypt\'s airforce was destroyed while it was on the ground.\r\n\r\nThen you wrote:\r\nIMO, this is the most fallacious proposition of your argument. EVERYONE, including the various Arab states themselves, admits they were on the verge of invading. The fact that Nasser did not really want war is completely immaterial. He sent divisions into Sinai b/c he knew full well most of the rest of the Arab world was going to invade, and he needed to proffer at least token support for that effort.\r\n\r\n\r\nIn Israeli Prime Minister Moshe Sharatt\'s personal diaries, there is an excerpt from May of 1955 in which he quotes Moshe Dayan as follows: \"[Israel] must see the sword as the main, if not the only, instrument with which to keep its morale high and to retain its moral tension. Toward this end it may, no - it must - invent dangers, and to do this it must adopt the method of provocation-and-revenge...And above all - let us hope for a new war with the Arab countries, so that we may finally get rid of our troubles and acquire our space.\" Quoted in Livia Rokach, \"Israel\'s Sacred Terrorism.\"\r\n\r\n\"The former Commander of the Air Force, General Ezer Weitzman, regarded as a hawk, stated that there was \'no threat of destruction\' but that the attack on Egypt, Jordan and Syria was nevertheless justified so that Israel could \'exist according the scale, spirit, and quality she now embodies.\'...Menahem Begin had the following remarks to make: \'In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.\' \"Noam Chomsky, \"The Fateful Triangle.\"\r\n\r\n\r\nDaniel wrote:\r\nBab, 1.5 million Israeli Arabs live inside the borders of Israel. Your analogy is simply fallacious, b/c the land is not exclusively reserved for Jews.\r\n\r\nI suppose Israeli Arabs do reside inside Israel though when there are parties in the Knesset which openly advocate their forced ethnic cleansing, who try to ban arab parties from participating in the Knesset and who try to pass laws which make discrimination\r\nofficial policy (see below) I don\'t know if I would call it \"living\"\r\n\r\nAs far as the land being exclusively reserved, Um sure it is - the majority of the land is owned by a quasi governmental organization called the Jewish Agency which holds the land in perpetuity for the Jewish people. \r\n\r\n\"In the early years of the new movement, Congresses were heard annually or biannually. Among the institutions developed in those early years was the Jewish National Fund, organized to purchase land in Mandatory Palestine for the benefit of the Jewish People in perpetuity.\"\r\nhttp://www.meretzusa.org/wzorg.shtml\r\n\r\nThis article refers to pre-WWI times. But whether the Jewish National Fund or Jewish Agency was set up to purchase land or not, it also found itself in possession of seized land as well. And it still controls the land to this day.\r\n\r\n The de facto policy was to openly refuse to allow Israeli arabs to use the land. The supreme court struck down this practice (and were ignored), and then the ultra right wingers proposed to codify the practice as law. The law was eventually defeated but that doesn\'t change the fact that this went on for a very long time and probably still is going on.\r\n\r\n\"JERUSALEM -- Touching off a divisive national debate, the government of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has endorsed a proposed law that allows Jews to bar Israeli Arab citizens from buying homes in many communities.\r\n\r\nThe attempt to legalize \"Jews-only\" towns was swiftly criticized by many Israeli politicians and human rights groups, who said it was a discriminatory and racist proposal. Supporters praised the law for protecting what they called the essence of Zionism.\r\n\r\nThe debate goes to the heart of Israel\'s existential contradiction: How can it be both a Jewish state and a democratic state?\"\r\nfrom an article originally published in the Houston Chronicle\r\n\r\nor Read about the Law that was proposed by the right wing at the BBC\r\n\r\nDaniel wrote:\r\nI love the fact that Israel is a Jewish state. I think a Jewish state is absolutely crucial to the survival of the Jewish people. And I wouldn\'t have it any other way.\r\n\r\nSo I think we have quite a fundamental disagreement.\r\n\r\nI guess so. There\'s of course nothing wrong with a state made up of Jewish people, if that\'s how it worked out naturally. But I can\'t possibly approve of any form of ethnic cleansing in the name of Jewish nationalism, most of all, not in my name. It just seems like the most horribly cynical and ironic outcome.\r\n\r\nbest,\r\n','2003-05-02 07:01:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2358,1,3407,'66.14.124.105','Jeff Medcalf','medcalf@caerdroia.org','http://www.caerdroia.org/blog','And as the example of N. Korea shows, signing that piece of paper means so much. Of course, it would mean something for Israel or the US to sign such an agreement, as we tend to stick by them, but I don\'t for a minute trust any dictatorship to honor any international convention or treaty that they have signed.','2003-05-02 07:19:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2359,1,3407,'203.51.33.58','Russell','russell_leslie@yahoo.com.au','','Jeff, that is a part of the point I was trying to make. They signed the pieces of paper and so their subsequent attempts to proliferate were illegal acts. Without signatures on the pieces of paper it could be argued they would be acting within their rights.\r\n\r\nIssues of abstract morality don\'t enter into it.\r\n\r\nRussell','2003-05-02 08:07:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2360,1,3407,'143.111.216.115','Aziz','azizhp@com.yahoo','http://unmedia.blogspot.com','\r\nto be honest, I\'m not sure what Israel gains from denying its WMD capabilities. What possible advantage is there? since they are not signatories to the NNPT it isnt like they are in violation of anything by posession. ','2003-05-02 14:52:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2361,1,3407,'81.5.146.53','Perry de Havilland','pdeh@NOSPAMsamizdata.net','http://samizdata.net/blog','Issues of abstract morality are indeed not germane when discussing nation-states, which are amoral institutions at best. Likewise, discussing legal issues is also largely meaningless and they may provide excuses for action but never the actual reasons.\r\n\r\nNations do what they do because of the political pressures of interests within the confines of the power to do them. \r\n\r\nThe Chinese poses all matter of potential military threats to US interests, but China is strong enough so that nothing less than World War 3 is going to take China\'s nukes from them.\r\n\r\nAs Israel does not threaten anyone with the military capability and will to disarm them and WHO IS OUT OF RANGE OF THEIR NUKES, they will keep their nukes. Other states trying to get WMD which threaten people who are strong enough to disarm them AT A COST acceptable to the people trying to do so, will suffer the fate of Saddam Hussain. It is that simple.\r\n\r\nStates are not about morality or law, just interests and power. All of them. Always.','2003-05-02 14:56:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2362,1,3404,'12.23.2.98','Diana','prairie_moon@earthlink.net','','Unfortunately, many of the most best books on the ME are out of print or hard to get. For out of print books, go to www.alibris.com.\r\n\r\nYou can\'t understand the modern Middle East without understanding the true history and roots of Islam, as opposed to the received religious orthodoxy.\r\n\r\nI\'m trying to get my hands on John Wansbrough\'s Quranic Studies. Wansbrough, who died in June 2002, was the guy who came up with these startling and controversial theories:\r\n\r\n1. That the Arabs who burst out of the Arabian peninsula were pagan, and picked up the monotheistic religions of the conquered subjects. \r\n\r\n2. That the Quran is a document which was stitched together from extant Christian and Jewish literature, and then retrofitted to a glorious Arab past.\r\n\r\nPatricia Crone and Michael Cook picked up the ball and produced Hagarism, also out of print. I\'ve got that on order, too. If the library doesn\'t come through I\'ll go the used book route.\r\n\r\nCrone\'s Slaves on Horses: the Evolution of the Muslim Polity came out 22 years ago, and is being reprinted, so perhaps there is hope for a reissue of her earlier book, and of the Wansbrough book.\r\n\r\nDaniel Pipes came out with his first book, Slave Soldiers and Islam about the same time the Crone book came out. I remember reading it and being very impressed. At that point Pipes had not become the polarizing figure he is now; he was just a promising scholar of Islamic studies. \r\n\r\nSlavery in Islam is not a small feature of the religion. The recognized expert in Ottoman slavery is Ehud Toledano. Google him.\r\n\r\nJ.B. Kelly, an old British empire hand, wrote THE indispensable guide to Gulf politics: Arabia, the Gulf and the West. Published in 1981, it is obviously dated, but anyone who wants to know how the past impacts the present in the Gulf, must read this.\r\n\r\nKramer\'s Ivory Towers Built on Sand is a must-read. He just obliterates every sugary illusion anyone can have about the ME.','2003-05-02 16:08:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2363,1,3407,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','What gain from denying? Implies they aren\'t all the way there and on hair trigger. Which means good behaviour on the other side might keep them there. \r\n\r\nFor instance: \"We will not be the first nation to introduce nuclear weapons to the Middle East.\" That could mean \"all we have to do is clip some pre-assembled pieces together in about 20 minutes, but since none are actually assembled, we have not introduced nuclear weapons.\" Implicit point: \"...and if we\'re not given any reason to go further, it will stay that way.\"\r\n\r\nThe deniability also makes the country less of a political target for having them. Sure, you can say \"everybody knows...\" or \"they\'re believed to have...\" but that\'s a much smaller political \"radar signature\" than a government who admits having them. Not sure why, but it does seem to work that way.','2003-05-02 16:08:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2364,1,3407,'143.111.216.115','Aziz','azizhp@com.yahoo','http://unmedia.blogspot.com','\r\nI dunno. it seems that the semantic benefit from saying \" we wont be the first to introduce nukes\" is pretty small compared to th ebenefit from saying \"we have nukes on subs aimed at Damascus and Tehran. FYI.\" \r\n\r\nand anyway everyone pretty much assumes that the nukes are weaponized and aimed there anyway. In fact the conventional wisdom of even well-educated people in the middle east that I have met is that Israel has nukes pointed at Mecca and Medina. It\'s just a sort of fatalistic thing - \"yeah, they have the nukes pointed, you\'d be insane to think otherwise.\"\r\n\r\naside, given my religious convictions, I dont think that pointing a nuke at Mecca means anything. I just believe as a matter of faith that its impossible to harm the Kaaba by any force of Man. This is a pretty basic axiom in Islamic theology. Thus any rampant fears about Israeli nukes aimed at Mecca are in a sense an admission of a lack of faith. Aim away. ','2003-05-02 16:31:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2365,1,3407,'143.111.216.115','Aziz','azizhp@com.yahoo','http://unmedia.blogspot.com','\r\nand, can Israel be any less of a political target? :P','2003-05-02 16:32:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2366,1,3405,'65.97.22.232','Meryl Yourish','meryl@mylastname.com','http://yourish.com/','I\'ve noticed that Aziz seems awfully concerned with being called names, and going on ad nauseum to prove he wasn\'t what he was accused of.\r\n\r\nThink the Shakespeare quote comes to bear here, or is he just incredibly thin-skinned?\r\n\r\nWhat-EVER.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-02 17:03:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2367,1,3411,'207.168.131.98','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','When the looters started taking computers someone asked if the US inteligence was upset to loose that data, and I remarked I was sure that the US already had what they wanted off those hard drives. Now it seems that the museums had a similar program? Well good for them, glad to see something turn out better than expected for once.','2003-05-02 17:30:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2368,1,3412,'62.101.188.42','Iñigo de Gracia','n8hjpla02@sneakemail.com','','If believing half truths makes you relaxed, do it.\r\n\r\n90% of the people in Spain are against war, despite our government position and despite the media. Most of us do know where Irak is and a couple of things about Sadam and USA way of doing things. You do not need to hate cars to think that blood for oil is not fair.\r\n\r\nYou americans prefer to believe that your \"help\" is welcome, that the world loves you and wants USA to be the police of the world. Well, it isn\'t exactly like that.You are mostly hated, even here, in the EU. Your government use of power is a shame and american people are guilty of supporting it for so many years.\r\n\r\nWar has been made on Irak for many reasons and none of them is helping Iraki people. You have to see that, Don\'t you?\r\n\r\nIñigo de Gracia','2003-05-02 17:31:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2369,1,3407,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net/','\"can Israel be any less of a political target?\"\r\n\r\nIt can always be more of one. The semantic benefit may seem mild, but in practice it seems to operate and has worked for others as well. As for the Arab regimes, I\'m pretty sure they know the score. A classic \"have your cake, eat it too\" approach, in addition to the (primary) diplomacy benefits.\r\n\r\nRe: Mecca. There are a lot of axioms in Islamic theology crying out for testing - but if it\'s all the same to you, I\'d rather leave that particular axiom off the list.','2003-05-02 17:53:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2370,1,3412,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net/','\"If believing half truths makes you relaxed, do it.\"\r\n\r\nI dunno. Inigo seems to believe in a LOT of half-truths, and he doesn\'t sound very relaxed to me.','2003-05-02 17:55:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2371,1,3407,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Perry -\r\n\r\nI disagree pretty strongly that nations even believe they are rational in their international relations (rationality is implicit in your construction that they act out of interest). I\'ll suggest that if you amend your construction to \"States are not about morality or law, just percieved interests and power. All of them. Always. it\'s closer, but still not true.\r\n\r\nNations act based on \"moral interests\" all the time. Wahabbism is a moral interest, not an economic or physical one - they want to improve the world by making it devout. The U.S. often intervenes abroad (not just militarily) because of morally-based interest groups.\r\n\r\nPeople are funny, complex creatures. Countries, as collections of people are even more so.\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-02 18:17:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2372,1,3412,'138.133.17.9','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','\"...despite our government position and despite the media.\"\r\n\r\nHmmm. Where have I *heard* that before?? \r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-02 18:22:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2373,1,3398,'68.161.76.68','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','\"Most of the Israelis are secular too and I don\'t think they base their politics on what some dusty old story book says.\"\r\n\r\nAnother nail in the coffin of your credibility.\r\n\r\nThat \"dusty old story book\" contains national mythology, poetry, theology, and history. Just because something is described in the Bible doesn\'t mean it\'s true. Just because something is described in the Bible doesn\'t mean it isn\'t true. \r\n\r\nIt is a fact that in Biblical times (which is just a designation for a period of history) Jewish terroritory at various times included what is now the West Bank, Lebanon, Jordan and parts of Saudi Arabia. There is ample archeological evidence for this. Jericho, Nineveh, Babylon, Hevron, were all real places.\r\n\r\nIf your only reaction to the statement \"biblical Israel extended well across the Jordan River.\" (which is a simple fact) is to sneer at the Bible as a dusty story book - you are a very ignorant person, and you need to read some unbiased primary-document-based Jewish history of the period. \r\n\r\n\r\nThese sites might help:\r\nintro to biblical archeology\r\nBiblical Archeology Society\r\nAnother biblical archeology site\r\nDead Sea Scrolls\r\n\r\n','2003-05-02 21:08:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2374,1,3412,'207.168.131.98','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Inigia, yes, we know we are hated and not welcome many places in the world. Of course it is only the U.S.A. that is pushy, stupid, rude, unwelcome, etc, etc, etc. I can tell from your remarks that you are an open minded individual interested in peace and friendship with everyone, except Americans of course. There are many sides to every story. I\'d invite you to visit my blog and read a bit, you will find things there I think you may not expect from an American, who knows, oh and, Mi gusto Espana mucho. Hasta luego.','2003-05-02 21:19:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2375,1,3398,'68.161.76.68','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Another nail in the coffin of your credibility.\r\n\r\nI don\'t take seriously quotes by Israel Shahak either. It says something that the only way you can make your points is to quote either historians like Morris who have changed their minds about the intifada, or virulently anti-Israel propagandists like Chomsky and Shahak. In fact, Shahak is the paradigm of the self-hating Jew, since he wasn\'t content with just leaving Judaism but has made a career out of maligning the religion itself .\r\n\r\nSince Shahak spends a lot of time distorting the Talmud, here are two corrective sites.\r\n\r\nThe real truth about the Talmud \r\nA truth-based response to: \"TALMUD UNMASKED\" \r\n\r\nBTW when I googled Shahak I found that most of the sites which cited him approvingly were neo-Nazi, Holocaust revivionist, and Arab fundamentalist sites. Is that the company you like to keep, Babylonian?','2003-05-02 21:44:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2376,1,3398,'68.161.76.68','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','\"I just don\'t buy that it\'s \"defensive\" to blow up or bulldoze the house of people that A) never did anything wrong or B) who allegedly did something wrong and have been dead for 4-6 months already. \"\r\n\r\nMany of the houses in Gaza are terminals for tunnels from Egypt where arms are smuggled. Since Israel began the policy of tearing down houses of families of suicide bombers, more people have turned in relatives who were planning attacks, because they don\'t want their house torn down. It\'s harsh, but it seems to be working. \r\n\r\n\"Maybe you could make an argument that the sezure of the Sinai was defensive, but how is building settlements on it defensive. It seem to me that\'s quite offensive, and a violation of the Geneva convention on top of it.\"\r\n\r\nOnce Israel acquired Sinai through war, they could do whatever they liked with it. That\'s fully within the world-wide historical understanding of the rights of the winner of a war. What does the Geneva convention have to do with it? (Which Geneva convention BTW?) Chapter and verse please.\r\n\r\n\"I don\'t necessarily accept that 1967 was completely a defensive war. Egypt\'s airforce was destroyed while it was on the ground.\"\r\n\r\nWhat does that have to do with it being a defensive war? \r\n\r\n\"I\'m not saying large sections of Israeli society have notions of a Greater Israel/Eretz Yisrael etc. But I think the evidence shows that the people currently running the place, and the settlers leading them around do.\"\r\n\r\nSince polls of Israelis consistently show willingness to give land for true peace (as you cited), and since Israel is a democracy with no hesitation about taking down a government in which they lose confidence, how can you make a case that the leaders want to expand against the wishes of the populace?','2003-05-02 21:58:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2377,1,3398,'68.161.76.68','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','\"As an American Jew I was taught in subtle and not so subtle ways to hate Germans.. wasn\'t everyone?\"\r\n\r\nAs a matter of fact, no. My parents were both Holocaust refugees and they made a point of not letting that keep them from buying Mercedes, visiting, Germany, etc. But I agree that many Jews do what you describe.\r\n\r\nBut in the case of the Palestinians, we are talking about state-sponsored hatred taught in the school system, over a period of decades, even after they formally agreed to stop. If you follow my link, you see that even UNRWA corroborated this. There is no equivalent of this systemically-taught hatred in Israel.\r\n\r\n\"If France declared itself a \"christian nation\" and said that a Christian trust would own all the land exclusively for the Christians, and only Christians could emigrate, I would question their right to do so. Wouldn\'t you?\"\r\n\r\nSince that is an exact description of most Arab nations (substitute Islam for Christianity), I await your questioning of their right to do so. However, that is not a description of Israel. People of many different faiths are citizens of Israel, hell, the headquarters of the Bahai faith is in Haifa (because they are persecuted in their country of origin, Iran). You don\'t have to be Jewish to emigrate to Israel.\r\n\r\nHowever, most Arab countries not only don\'t allow non-Muslims to become citizens, they don\'t allow them to practice their religions at all, or allow anyone to become a citizen who isn\'t related to a current citizen. The only nations in the middle east which allow Palestinians to become full citizens are Israel and Jordan.\r\n\r\n\"I\'m for a one state solution. One man, one vote, one state.\"\r\n\r\nWhich - given the track record of the region - is a shortcut to dhimmi status for Jews, Christians, and any other non-Muslim in a Muslim-dominant state. Half of Israel\'s Jews came from such societies - why would they want to go back? (Instructive that the Israelis who lived under Arab rule tend to be more right wing than those from Europe). \r\n\r\nGiven the dismal state of human rights in Arab societies, why would anyone want this as a solution?','2003-05-02 22:17:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2378,1,3398,'68.161.76.68','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','\"As far as Arafat being a \"murderous thug\" is he really worse than Begin and others blowing up the King David hotel, the massacre at Deir Yassin and other such incidents over the years ? \"\r\n\r\nOh puleeze. If you look at what Arafat is actually responsible for - like the Munich massacres, the Achille Lauro, murdering US diplomats - how could you even doubt that? But you don\'t seem to want to look at his mafia-like rule of the territories, either, so you seem to be in a heavy state of denial.\r\n\r\nDo you think making excuses for Arafat helps the Palestinian people? Do you think his \"election\" was the equivalent of Sharon\'s election? \r\n\r\nDeir Yassin\r\nDeir Yassin\r\nAnd BTW, ifyou want to parade the rest of the dusty canards (Mohammed Al-Dura, Jenin, Sharon\'s visit to the Temple Mount, the USS Liberty) I\'ve got rebuttals for all those too. So don\'t bother.\r\n\r\n\"I can\'t possibly approve of any form of ethnic cleansing in the name of Jewish nationalism, most of all, not in my name. It just seems like the most horribly cynical and ironic outcome.\"\r\n\r\nYou are choosing frameworks for the selective facts you allow in, that lead you to the conclusion that \"Israel = ethnic cleansing.\" You are carefully screening out any facts that would lead you to a different conclusion. You are getting your info from people like Shahak who have demonstrably falsified facts about Judaism. You have shown you know nothing about Israel\'s legal system and immigration policy, Jewish history, or the history of the corruption of the PA, so I assume there are many other facts you are ignorant of as well. So your inputs are very faulty - please consider that your conceptual frameworks and conclusions may be faulty as well.','2003-05-02 22:58:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2379,1,3398,'216.82.163.100','Babylonian','sven@netpimp.com','http://www.newsfrombabylon.com','I had written:\r\n\"Most of the Israelis are secular too and I don\'t think they base their politics on what some dusty old story book says.\"\r\n\r\nYehudit replied:\r\nAnother nail in the coffin of your credibility...blahblah...If your only reaction to the statement \"biblical Israel extended well across the Jordan River.\" (which is a simple fact) is to sneer at the Bible as a dusty story book - you are a very ignorant person\"\r\n\r\nWhat\'s with all the ad hominems? Why is it a nail in the coffin my my credibility that you personally don\'t like the sources I quoted?\r\n\r\nMight it be a sign of your own closed mindedness?\r\n\r\nIf you mean my credibility as far as you\'re concerned, well fine. everyone\'s entitled to their opinion. but it seems like you\'re attacking my credibility in general instead of discussing the issues here to me.\r\n\r\nI stand by my original statement that I don\'t think most Israelis base their politics on the Torah.\r\n\r\nlater Yehudit wrote:\r\nAnother nail in the coffin of your credibility. [re quoting Israel Shahak]\r\n\r\nonce again, you\'re having a knee-jerk reaction and attacking Shahak while ignoring the quote:\r\n\r\n\"The main danger which Israel, as a \'Jewish state\', poses to its own people, to other Jews and to its neighbors, is its ideologically motivated pursuit of territorial expansion and the inevitable series of wars resulting from this aim...No zionist politician has ever repudiated Ben-Gurion\'s idea that Israeli policies must be based (within the limits of practical considerations) on the restoration of Biblical borders as the borders of the Jewish state.\"\r\n\r\nDo you have anything to say to the substance of these two sentences which were at the center of my point?\r\n\r\nOf what possible relevance is Shahak\'s personal feelings about religion in his life, or of the Talmud ? The quote is about zionism and expansionism and its effects on world Jewry.\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nIt says something that the only way you can make your points is to quote either historians like Morris who have changed their minds about the intifada, or virulently anti-Israel propagandists like Chomsky and Shahak.\r\n\r\n\"It says something\" ? what does it say? Why not come out and say what you mean?\r\n\r\nSo what if Morris had one idea about the intifada and then later changed is mind, if he did? That has nothing to do with the quote I posted which had to do with partition in the 1940s does it?\r\n\r\nAgain you are avoiding the point of the quote I posted saying that large portions of society including Ben Gurion were opposed to or extremely unhappy with partition and viewed the war as an opportunity to spread the borders. Why don\'t you address that?\r\n\r\nI also don\'t think it\'s particularly accurate of you to refer to Chomsky and Shahak as \"virulently anti-Israel propagandists\". \r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nBTW when I googled Shahak I found that most of the sites which cited him approvingly were neo-Nazi, Holocaust revivionist, and Arab fundamentalist sites. Is that the company you like to keep, Babylonian?\r\n\r\nThis is just cheap, uncalled for, and doesn\'t make you look very reasonable IMO.\r\n\r\nI don\'t \"keep company\" with neo-Nazis, Holocaust revisionists or any kind of fundamentalists, sorry to disappoint you. I showed you where the Shahak quote came from, a pamphlet from Jews for Justice in the Middle East.\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nMany of the houses in Gaza are terminals for tunnels from Egypt where arms are smuggled.\r\n\r\nOK, so arrest the people if they committed a crime and put them in jail. That\'s the way we handle smuggling tunnels under the Mexican/US border\r\n\r\nBut I\'m sure you know that they bulldoze and blow up a lot more than just houses that conceal tunnels. They blow up houses as retaliation all the time, even when the people they are supposedly retaliating against have been dead for months becuase they committed suicide bombings. They bulldoze houses that they claim don\'t have the proper permits all the time, with little or no notice given.\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nSince Israel began the policy of tearing down houses of families of suicide bombers, more people have turned in relatives who were planning attacks, because they don\'t want their house torn down. It\'s harsh, but it seems to be working.\r\n\r\nSo your point is that tne ends justify the means no matter what the means are?\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nOnce Israel acquired Sinai through war, they could do whatever they liked with it. That\'s fully within the world-wide historical understanding of the rights of the winner of a war. What does the Geneva convention have to do with it? (Which Geneva convention BTW?) Chapter and verse please.\r\n\r\nFourth Geneva Convention, Part III : Status and treatment of protected persons, Section III : Occupied territories, Article 49.\r\n\r\n\"The Geneva Convention requires an occupying power to change the existing order as little as possible during its tenure. One aspect of this obligation is that it must leave the territory to the people it finds there. It may not bring its own people to populate the territory. This prohibition is found in the convention\'s Article 49, which states, \'The occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.\'\" John Quigley, \"Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice.\"\r\n\r\nand...\r\n\r\n\"Under the UN Charter there can lawfully be no territorial gains from war, even by a state acting in self-defense. The response of other states to Israel\'s occupation shows a virtually unanimous opinion that even if Israel\'s action was defensive, its retention of the West Bank and Gaza Strip was not...The [UN] General Assembly characterized Israel\'s occupation of the West Bank and Gaza as a denial of self determination and hence a \'serious and increasing threat to international peace and security.\' \" John Quigley, \"Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice.\"\r\n\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nSince polls of Israelis consistently show willingness to give land for true peace (as you cited), and since Israel is a democracy with no hesitation about taking down a government in which they lose confidence, how can you make a case that the leaders want to expand against the wishes of the populace?\r\n\r\nFrom the very fact that expansion of the settlements has steadily continued for decades.\r\n\r\n\" As President Bush develops his latest approach to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the administration does not intend to make a significant effort to curb the continued expansion of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, one of the most troubling irritants to Palestinians.\r\n\r\nThe White House routinely calls on the Israelis to stop settlement activity, but U.S. officials have concluded that there is nothing to be gained in further pressing Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, an impassioned promoter and defender of a settler population that has grown by two-thirds during the past decade.\r\n\r\n...\r\n\r\n Monitors from the Israeli group Peace Now, which opposes settlements, say more than 40 settlements have been created since Sharon took office, many of them far from any land inhabited by Israelis.\"\r\nBush Won\'t Press End To Israeli Settlements\r\nBy Peter Slevin, Washington Post [US]\r\nSunday, July 28, 2002; Page A23\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\"Ariel Sharon has brushed aside an appeal by the White House to stop an unprecedented move by Jewish settlers into a Palestinian district of Jersualem which his critics say will further hinder a political settlement.\"\r\n\r\nhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,931141,00.html\r\n\r\n\r\n\"Ofra and other Jewish settlements across the West Bank are expanding nearly unabated, contrary to Israel\'s long-stated official policy. New housing, new roads and new construction are progressively chopping up the territory claimed by Palestinians for a future state.\r\n\r\nMuch of the growth has occurred since the start almost 27 months ago of a bloody era of Israeli-Palestinian fighting in which settlers have been fair game for Palestinian gunmen. Some of the neighborhoods that have popped up here are named in honor of residents killed in Palestinian attacks.\r\n\r\nJewish settlers see the land as their God-given legacy. Every Israeli government for the past three decades has allowed expansion of the settlements with few restrictions and often with overt support. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon regards them as a strategic imperative, a way of ensuring Israeli security by blocking contiguous Palestinian territory.\"\r\nSettling In for the Duration\r\nby Tracy Wilkinson, Los Angeles Times [US]\r\nDecember 24, 2002\r\n','2003-05-02 23:41:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2380,1,3398,'68.161.76.68','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','BTW here\'s one Benny Morris piece. I believe he also alluded to his change of heart in The New Republic but I can\'t find that one.','2003-05-02 23:53:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2381,1,3416,'63.189.32.119','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','My problem is twofold (actually, I\'m sure folks can identify other problems I have, but I\'m speaking in regards to this subject):\r\n\r\n1) I knew when I wrote the post that it could be criticized or dismissed (which you don\'t do, but others might) on the grounds that its critique is from the Right, with sources almost exclusively from the Right (I note in passing that what you consider the most incisive description of the matter at hand is from a source derived from a viewpoint that is also generally considered on the Right).\r\n\r\nI\'m largely unaware of, and think there is a great gap, in critiques of the philosophical roots of \"Bad Philosophy\" from moderate or (especially) Liberal positions. Which is ironic considering that in actuality the principle targets of this movement, that we both oppose, have foremost been Liberal ones (some Liberals, \"Scoop Jackson\" type Liberals, did confront this, but most of them, at least most of the ones I\'m aware of, ended up being cast into the Outer Darkness and are now associated with Conservatism or \"Neo-Conservatism\" as a consequence).\r\n\r\nThe best effort from a Liberal \"place\" that I\'m aware of is Arthur Schlesinger Jr.\'s \"The Disuniting of America\", which is (IMO) a very good critique of one intellectual consequence/derivation of this movement, but which ultimately does not aknowledge/recognize, much less confront, the source or the larger ideology and its dogmas. Thus it is really in a way a critique of one of the symptoms rather than of a cause (but it\'s very good for a short work - but, again unfortunately, as far as I\'m aware of Schlesinger did not continue to pursue that line of scholarship).\r\n\r\nPerhaps this is just a gap in my knowledge. I would (and I\'m sincere here, not trying to score a rhetorical point) be very much interested in links to Liberal critiques of the Frankfurt School\'s intellectual vision (now I will, though, go for a rhetorical point - my direct familiarity with Adorno\'s \"The Authoritarian Personality\" was in a class taught by a Professor, in a class on American Political Science, who - the Professor - was, I would say, a very mainstream Liberal - not a Marxist - who assigned the text and lectured on it rather uncritically; a method that is not by any means wrong but which does show, IMO, how these guys were and are able to take advantage of the fact that many decent Liberals do not want to be seen as giving credence to what they think are criticisms originating from the Right by expressing criticisms of their own).\r\n\r\nThus, IMO, by these types of means, a lot of Liberal institutions found it very hard to defend themselves (as predicted by the originators of the Frankfort School, despite all their blathering about what a \"repressive\" society this was they counted on its open-mindedness in advancing their cause) from essentially having the Leftist \"tail\" wag them.\r\n\r\n2) My second problem will take less space to express and it is related to the final paragraph in the above; while by no means sharing Buchananite ideology, I am pessimistic - I do not believe this problem will be overcome by the means available to a classically Liberal society like our own (argumentation, persuasion, and the like), and would not support other means of defeating it (the \"War on Bad Philosophy\" abroad may actually be the easier one to win than the internal one, the \"Pan-Western Culture War\"). So I have analysis and description and critique but lack solutions.\r\n\r\nIronically, even though I am unapologetically conservative (of the Hayekian type, even though Hayek himself rejected the lable \"conservative\", like others who resisted that he was pushed, essentially, into the conservative camp), I think the solution might have to come from (actual) Liberals (such as yourself) asserting themselves and confronting the non-Liberals masquerading in their own institutions (or our own institutions, but ones largely associated with Liberalism). But I don\'t see that happening on a wide scale any time soon, and even if it did, again, I\'m not sure how it can successfully be done in a way that adheres to the principles we hold dear.\r\n\r\n(I guess this #2 wasn\'t as short as I thought it would be).\r\n\r\nBarring that, I think we\'re looking at a long-term problem (where \"long-term\" is defined in Civilizational terms) and the best we can hope for is sort of like the image of midieval monks - preserve a \"saving remnant\" that can be used to rekindle the flame of liberty and (classical and otherwise) liberal society at some point in the future, after the Gramscian paradigm has attained power fully - that is, the last stage, overt control over political institutions, and burned itself out in a way that IMO will not be all that different from how Stalinist Marxism burned itself out (but remembering that it was given external pushes that assisted, were vital in, toppling it; waiting till it went over of it\'s own weight would likely have taken decades longer and thus resulted in even deeper societal damage).\r\n\r\nMyself I keep up my part because it\'s a worthy effort even if it might be futile, and in the hopes that someone (or several someones) will see a solution where I do not. But I haven\'t yet seen what I think would be an effective means of combatting and overcoming the procession of this paradigm (which, given the degree to which it\'s adherents are impervious to empirical feedback, the Kunnian \"collapse\" will come only in a terminal stage, very late, when the corrosion is so severe that it imposes itself on things; that is, the danger is that by the time this paradigm collapses, it will do so only as the consequence of larger societal or civilizational collapse brought on as a result of the paradigm itself - in the way Thomas Sowell describes as the danger, in the quote from his book in my post). Civilizations have \"a lot of ruin in them\" (that is, they can take a lot of abuse and aren\'t frail critters), and ours is pretty resilient. But nothing is impervious and it may be that the Frankfort School intellectuals and Gramsci identified a real opening to exploit - it\'s almost ju-jitsu, in a way, using the very strength (the openness that, ironically, they claim does not exist in our society, the tolerance that, again, they claimed to not believe to be substantive in our society, and the like) of the liberal (small \"l\") culture against it, in a way, as a means to (conciously and deliberately, if one reads their own writings) disolve and topple it.\r\n\r\nAgain, I\'d love to be wrong.','2003-05-03 01:42:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2382,1,3416,'63.189.32.119','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Btw; I\'m not exactly a prude and many of the critiques of \"Bad Philosophy\" from the Right have come from women (like Gertrude Himmelfarb, to name just one) who weren\'t exactly the steriotypical image of \'50s June Cleaver Housefraus, and the long quote in my post are the words of a black man who was a Marxist in the \'50s (didn\'t know Thomas Sowell had been a Marxist? I didn\'t, either, till I read his book, \"A Personal Odyssey\").','2003-05-03 02:29:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2383,1,3407,'63.184.64.237','jaiken','cntrst@yahoo.com','','<\"On balance is it better for Israel to have the bomb or not, and if they do, is it better for them to have the bomb alone or not?\">\r\n\r\nI\'m not sure it\'s the best question. When the calls come out for a WMD free Middle East, screaming \'hypocrite\' and \'we want our WMDs\' isn\'t going to convince a lot of people, no matter how reasonable it may be.\r\n\r\nSo I think the question should really be; what would have to happen in Syria and Iran et al for a WMD free Middle East to become a realistic possibility?','2003-05-03 02:39:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2384,1,3407,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','A: The political equivalent of a sex change, or maybe a species change. End to financial, moral, and logistical support for terrorism. No more terrorism practiced from their soil. Acceptance of Israel and normalization of relations. Complete change in both the curriculum and the media to inculcate tolerance instead of hate. Time measured in years required for the culture to process that, and recover from 40-50 years of hate propaganda that rivals anything the Nazis put out (and often builds on or uses that very source).\r\n\r\nBasically, it will not happen in any politically relevant time frame. Nor are the calls for a WMD free Middle East. The call is for keeping WMD out of the hands of those states who are not trusted to have them, because their possession of same threatens or potentially threatens the USA. \r\n\r\nIsrael isn\'t on that list, but the Arab states and Iran have behaved themselves onto it. There\'s nothing unfair about that - they did this to themselves as a long-term, conscious choice.\r\n\r\nQ: \"what would have to happen in Syria and Iran et al for a WMD free Middle East to become a realistic possibility?\"','2003-05-03 04:05:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2385,1,3383,'24.202.236.166','Nima Arian','nimaarian@canada.com','','National Homeland Security\'s conclusion: Nasruddin is an Al-Qaeda member! \r\nThreat Condition: Ultrared','2003-05-03 05:54:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2386,1,3407,'63.184.1.65','jaiken','cntrst@yahoo.com','','Well, it was a rhetorical question, but you did give the only possible answer.\r\n\r\nBut there are, in fact, calls for a WMD free Middle East. Because they\'re coming from Syria may make you want to discount them as not serious, but strange irrational things eminating from Arab countries do often find an echo box in China, Russia and the EU, and of course the UN. \r\n\r\nI think it will come up again and become a major talking point. When that happens, I think that raising the question I raised, which leads to the answer you gave, would be the more powerful response. The problem with defending Israel\'s rationale for possesing the bomb is that only reasonable and intelligent people are going to grasp the argument, and fewer still are going to admit they grasp it. \r\n\r\nSometimes it\'s just better to raise a question than to answer one. Or in this case the answer would be, \"there\'d be no reason for Israel to possess WMDs, if only ...\", and then the question answers itself.\r\n\r\nPlus, finally, if it\'s possible to guide thinking in a direction that would actually one day allow for a WMD free Middle East, why not do it?','2003-05-03 05:55:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2387,1,3407,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Good points all. Thanks, Jaiken.','2003-05-03 06:20:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2388,1,3417,'12.234.145.67','Captain Scarlet','cpt_scarlet6@yahoo.com','http://www.silentrunning.blogspot.com','i\'ll bet you that the orders are coming from lonely wives back in germany and not folks in the sand. ','2003-05-03 07:12:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2389,1,3383,'205.188.209.7','Robert','roboetal@aol.com','http://alphabetcity.blogspot.com/','*My Answer*','2003-05-03 08:21:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2390,1,3383,'68.52.70.6','Donald Sensing','thisis@notit.com','http://www.donaldsensing.com','Very simple. The preacher was unprepared three weeks in a row. He had failed to consult the lectionary and so did not even know what apssages were scheduled for that day. Furthermore, his ISP was down and he could not even download a sermon off the internet. \r\n\r\nFurthermore, he had just decided to retire and the congregation couldn\'t do anything to him anyway. ','2003-05-03 14:22:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2391,1,3421,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Yes there is (a viable blogging business model), but not as PeakTalk seems to think of it...as a venture-backed traditional-scale business.\r\n\r\nThink Nick Denton and nanopublishing.\r\n\r\nAt some point, some of the more popular blogs will try and go subscription, and a paying audience of 20,000 at $5/year is a pretty decent living. \r\n\r\nThat\'s the problem with Salon and many of the e-business models; scale. They assumed they could generate massive revenues, while the thing that the Net is best at is potentially generating very small ones.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-03 15:50:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2392,1,3416,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','No, I think you\'re right, and that the group we\'re both talking about has captured both the lecterns and levers of power of the Left in the U.S.\r\n\r\nPart of what I\'m scratching toward is a \"Reformation\" for the Left, a coherent body of theory and arguments that are robust enough to stand against the pomo left, the new libertarians, and the right.\r\n\r\nIt\'s a task...\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-03 15:54:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2393,1,3417,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','But Trent, you missed the best quote of all:\r\n\r\n\"...there were occasional purchases of more exotic wares. \r\n\r\nSeveral orders were placed for ankle and wrist cuffs, Garcia said, and a few requests were made for what he called \"spankers.\" \r\n\r\nOne can assume that either some of our soldiers were getting a little kinky out there in the desert or that Saddam Hussein is in for one heck of a surprise when we finally track him down. \"\r\n\r\nScarlet - the zip codes are pretty definitive; I sent a bunch of gun cleaning supplies to a Marine unit in Iraq...they apparently had their own zip code.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-03 16:29:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2394,1,3398,'216.82.163.100','Babylonian','sven@netpimp.com','http://www.newsfrombabylon.com','Yehudit wrote:\r\nBut in the case of the Palestinians, we are talking about state-sponsored hatred taught in the school system, over a period of decades, even after they formally agreed to stop. If you follow my link, you see that even UNRWA corroborated this.\r\n\r\nI think I addressed why this happens before when I said:\r\n\r\n\"It seems like that naturally happens when people view themselves as victims. They hate the people they view as their oppressors and that gets passed on to their children. As an American Jew I was taught in subtle and not so subtle ways to hate Germans.. wasn\'t everyone?\"\r\n\r\nYou concurred that many Jews also teach their children to hate the people they view as having oppressed them. That pretty much makes my point. People do that. It\'s unfortunate, but it\'s not unique to this situation IMO. Schoolbooks are created by human beings and are political. Just look at the way the Japanese schoolbooks deal with their role in the wars of the 20th century.\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\n\"If France declared itself a \"christian nation\" and said that a Christian trust would own all the land exclusively for the Christians, and only Christians could emigrate, I would question their right to do so. Wouldn\'t you?\"\r\n\r\nSince that is an exact description of most Arab nations (substitute Islam for Christianity), I await your questioning of their right to do so.\r\n\r\nUm why wait? I did that before. If you go back and read what I wrote it was:\r\n\r\n\"I question the right of Israel to exist as a \"Jewish state\". I question the right of Saudi Arabia to be a \"muslim state\". If France...\"\r\n\r\nAnd is it really a description of most Arab nations ? I think that\'s a bit of an exagguration. Arab nations still have Christian and Jewish populations. Some are better or worse than others in that respect. But as I clearly said from the onset, I don\'t approve of those states either.\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nHowever, that is not a description of Israel.\r\n\r\nBut I think it is - Israel describes itself as a Jewish state. Like many Muslim states which have the star and crescent on their flags, Israel has the star of david on its flag. And Israel gives special rights to members of the Jewish faith, as discussed earlier with the land being held for the Jewish people, and in other ways such as non-Jews do not get the benefits of the \"Law of Return\"\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nPeople of many different faiths are citizens of Israel, hell, the headquarters of the Bahai faith is in Haifa (because they are persecuted in their country of origin, Iran).\r\n\r\nI didn\'t say people of many different faiths weren\'t citizens of Israel. I only talked about their emigration rights, which are different from those of Jews.\r\n\r\nI had written:\r\n\"I\'m for a one state solution. One man, one vote, one state.\"\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nWhich - given the track record of the region - is a shortcut to dhimmi status for Jews, Christians, and any other non-Muslim in a Muslim-dominant state. Half of Israel\'s Jews came from such societies - why would they want to go back? (Instructive that the Israelis who lived under Arab rule tend to be more right wing than those from Europe).\r\n\r\nThe thing is you\'re assuming how things are going to turn out, and I think you\'re generalizing about how Muslim or Arab states work.\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nGiven the dismal state of human rights in Arab societies, why would anyone want this as a solution?\r\n\r\nYou\'re making a leap here.. the leap is that my suggestion that I prefer a one state solution means that I prefer Israel to become a muslim theocracy, when in fact I prefer a completely secular socialist democracy with a focus on Human and Civil rights for all.\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nOh puleeze. If you look at what Arafat is actually responsible for - like the Munich massacres, the Achille Lauro, murdering US diplomats - how could you even doubt that?\r\n\r\nBecause I also looked at how the Irgun blew up civilians including Jews in the King David Hotel and I also looked at the various massacres that took place in the early years. The Munich massacres were terrible. The Achille Lauro, horrible. I don\'t know if it can be conclusively proven that Arafat was personally responsible for them, but if it can then he should go to the International Criminal Court IMO.\r\n\r\nAs I said earlier: \"It\'s all disgusting as far as I\'m concerned.\" (referring to terrorism on both sides)\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nBut you don\'t seem to want to look at his mafia-like rule of the territories, either, so you seem to be in a heavy state of denial\r\n\r\nIf any leader isn\'t corrupt I am surprised. I tend to assume they are and I am surprised if they aren\'t.\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nDo you think making excuses for Arafat helps the Palestinian people? \r\n\r\nI don\'t believe I\'ve \"made excuses\" for Arafat\r\n\r\nIt seems like Sharon isn\'t exactly \"Mr. Clean hands\" either..\r\n\r\n\"The Haaretz newspaper, citing a document obtained from Israel’s Justice Ministry, said Sharon and his son Gilad are suspected of receiving bribes, committing breach of trust and fraud and deceiving the police and Israel’s state comptroller.\"\r\n\r\nSharon investigated over £1m bribe - report\r\n\r\nAnd of course we all know about his problems with Sabra and Shatila.\r\n\r\n\" In an astonishing letter to the Palestinian survivors of the 1982 Sabra and Shatila camps massacres, nine Israeli women\'s peace groups have told Palestinians in Beirut that they support their efforts to indict the Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, for \"war crimes\'\' committed against them almost exactly 20 years ago.\"\r\nProsecute Sharon for war crimes, Israeli women say\r\n\r\nYehudit wrote:\r\nDo you think his \"election\" was the equivalent of Sharon\'s election?\r\n\r\nIt\'s hard to compare elections isn\'t it. I\'m not sure what you\'re asking exactly. It would seem strange for me, as an American, considering what happened in our last elections to criticize the elections of other countries. You know, glass houses and all.\r\n\r\n\"RAMALLAH, West Bank (CNN) -- As Palestinian election officials emptied boxes brimming with ballots and began the momentous process of counting, two facts emerged quickly and clearly: Voters had turned out in phenomenal numbers, and Yasser Arafat was racing toward a landslide victory.\r\n\r\nWith 60 percent of the ballots counted under the watchful eyes of international observers, Arafat received 85 percent of the votes in the historic and mostly peaceful exercise of selecting a president for Palestine under self-rule.\"\r\n\r\n\r\nhttp://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9601/palestine_elex/01-21/12am/\r\n\r\n','2003-05-03 17:20:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2395,1,3407,'143.111.216.115','Aziz','azizhp@com.yahoo','http://unmedia.blogspot.com','rlevant to the discussion (and especially Joe\'s points) is this article in the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.bullatomsci.org/issues/1993/j93/j93Cohen.html\r\n\r\nby Avner Cohen. ','2003-05-03 17:50:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2396,1,3412,'217.224.225.178','leo','inipa@gmx.de','http://www.inipa.de/','advertising German dissent:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.wadinet.de/\r\nhttp://www.antisemitismusstreit.tk/\r\nhttp://www.redaktion-bahamas.org/ ','2003-05-03 17:56:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2397,1,3383,'207.168.128.20','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','If he were preaching in my area he would have the largest congregation of all the churches. Everyone would leave the pews where all those gas bag orators drone on for an hour or more. Those preachers know it all, no need to think for yourself. This man made people think. Check that, he\'s still making people think.','2003-05-03 18:47:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2398,1,3371,'216.82.163.100','Babylonian','sven@netpimp.com','http://www.newsfrombabylon.com','There are published reports (in the Washington Post for instance) that Israel collaborated with the Apartheid regime in South Africa on bio weapons, and that South Africa had both interest in and performed research into genetically targetted bio weapons.\r\n\r\nClearly this isn\'t concrete proof that Israel is doing so. But it adds to the evidence that they very well might be. Until Israel allows inspections of its bio and chem weapons facilities there won\'t be any concrete proof of what they really have or haven\'t done, and as this article makes clear, it\'s hard to figure things out even when there are inspections.\r\n\r\n\r\n\"PRETORIA, South Africa -- In three days of secret meetings last July, the man known throughout South Africa as \"Doctor Death\" astounded U.S. law enforcement officials with tales of how the former white-minority government carried out unique experiments with chemical and biological weapons.\r\n\r\nWouter Basson, the bearded ex-commander of South Africa\'s notorious 7th Medical Battalion, spoke candidly of global shopping sprees for pathogens and equipment, of plans for epidemics to be sown in black communities and of cigarettes and letters that were laced with anthrax.\"\r\n\r\n...snip...\r\n\r\n\" More sinister were the attempts -- ordered by Basson -- to use science against the country\'s black majority population. Daan Goosen, former director of Project Coast\'s biological research division, said he was ordered by Basson to develop ways to suppress population growth among blacks, perhaps by secretly applying contraceptives to drinking water. Basson also urged scientists to search for a \"black bomb,\" a biological weapon that would select targets based on skin color, he said.\"\r\n\r\n...snip...\r\n\r\n[article continues, talks about a modified version of anthrax South Africa\'s bio weapons program had developed which would be undecetable by current methods]\r\n\r\n\"Basson acknowledged to U.S. officials that the modifications stripped the microbe of some of its virulence, but said Project Coast scientists remained interested because of the strain\'s ability to sicken and debilitate targets without leaving a trace.\r\n\r\nBasson also told U.S. officials he had learned the technique from Israeli government scientists, a claim that could not be independently verified. Israel has persistently denied having biological or chemical weapons programs, although many U.S. weapons experts believe such programs exist. Israel also is widely believed to have assisted South Africa with the development of its former nuclear weapons program, a claim Israeli officials also deny. Basson and at least one other member of South Africa\'s biological and chemical weapons team made extended trips to Israel in the 1980s, according to testimony and documents cited by authors Gould and Folb.\"\r\n\r\nfrom the article \"Biotoxins Fall Into Private Hands\"\r\nby Joby Warrick, Washington Post [US]\r\nApril 21, 2003; Page A01\r\n','2003-05-03 20:18:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2399,1,3383,'4.60.23.78','Samuel Tai','taiss@gte.net','','This strikes me as an example of an Islamic koan. It appears Nasruddin was doing several things:\r\n\r\n1. Asking the congregation to challenge his own supposed authority. After all, if they are to submit only to Allah, why are they listening to him? Why can\'t they exercise their own judgment in interpreting scripture?\r\n2. Trying to get the congregation to see beyond rules and procedures. Or, to put it in a Jewish context: What does it mean to be a Jew? Is it only following the Law and the Prophets? Analogously, what does it mean to be Muslim? Is there anything beyond merely obeying the Qur\'an, and following the teachings of the Mullahs?\r\n3. Forcing them to examine why they are at the mosque. Can worship be performed only in sacred spaces? Must prayer only be offered at the five appointed times each day?','2003-05-03 22:02:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2400,1,3407,'216.82.163.100','Babylonian','sven@netpimp.com','http://www.newsfrombabylon.com','Aziz wrote:\r\nto be honest, I\'m not sure what Israel gains from denying its WMD capabilities. What possible advantage is there? since they are not signatories to the NNPT it isnt like they are in violation of anything by posession.\r\n\r\nAs far as I understand, US Law requires that the US cut off funding to any country who develops or possesses nuclear weapons who is not a member of the NNPT\r\n\r\n\"The double standards that scream at you whenever you see the words \"weapons of mass destruction\" cannot be excused on the grounds that Israel is abiding by international regulations. Israel refuses to sign any treaty regulating the use of nuclear weapons. All correspondence concerning the nuclear non-proliferation agreement, the nuclear test ban treaty and other copiously negotiated agreements on weapons of mass destruction go into the Israeli government\'s rubbish bins. Yet Israel receives $3bn* (£2bn) of aid, annually, from the US. This is despite legislation, the Symington Accord, to prevent US governments from granting aid to countries who develop nuclear weapons outside of international control and agreement.\"\r\n\r\nfrom an article entitled \"Israel\'s arms inspector\"\r\nby Hilary Wainwright, The Guardian [UK]\r\nOctober 4, 2002\r\n\r\nfurther background on US aid to Israel:\r\n\r\nAn inter-ministerial team headed by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon\'s bureau chief, Dov Weisglass, is working on a proposal requesting American economic assistance that could top $10 billion.\r\nfrom: PM plans to ask U.S. for aid that could top $10 billion\r\nBy Amnon Barzilai and Natan Guttman, Ha\'aretz\r\nTuesday, October 22, 2002\r\n\r\n* The Cost of Israel to U.S. Taxpayers: True Lies About US Aid To Israel\r\nBy Richard H. Curtiss, Washington Report on Middle East Affairs\r\nJanuary 8th, 2003','2003-05-03 22:49:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2401,1,3407,'216.82.163.100','Babylonian','sven@netpimp.com','http://www.newsfrombabylon.com','oh yeah and by the way:\r\n\r\n\r\n\" SYDNEY (Reuters) - Syrian Foreign Minister Farouq al-Shara has said his government is willing to sign a treaty making the entire Middle East free of weapons of mass destruction.\r\n\r\n...snip...\r\n\r\n Arab diplomats at the United Nations said U.S. ally Israel was the only country in the Middle East with weapons of mass destruction and added they would seek a U.N. Security Council resolution declaring the region free of such deadly arms.\r\n\r\n...snip...\r\n\r\n \"It is better for the Americans, for the Israelis, for every citizen on earth, especially in the Middle East, and it is good for the American forces in Iraq, to see that the whole Middle East is a zone free from all mass destruction weapons,\" Shara said.\r\n\r\n\"Also it is very useful to see this taking place because in this case no terrorist, as the Americans say and some Europeans say, no terrorists can have these mass destruction weapons with them.\"\r\n\r\nfrom article \"Syria Backs Middle Eastern WMD-Free Zone\"\r\nReuters Newswire\r\nApril 16, 2003','2003-05-03 22:54:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2402,1,3383,'24.202.236.166','Nima Arian','nimaarian@canada.com','','Nasruddin wants to say the people that he has the same level of knowledge as they do. So it would be better for them to THINK and learn what they don\'t know from those who do know. In other words, he wants to criticise mullahs\' ideology and tell the people they should think and learn by themeselves, not by someone whose knowledge is as limited as theirs.','2003-05-04 00:22:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2403,1,3383,'12.47.68.106','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','See? He\'s still making people think. ,;-)','2003-05-04 00:49:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2404,1,3383,'66.41.150.17','Guy Hall','cdguy@attbi.com','','He was forcing the congregation to take a look at their habit of asking \"the right\" question.','2003-05-04 03:29:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2405,1,3383,'165.121.129.11','fritter fratter','mlpvt@aol.com','','\"I don\'t know – and it\'s not knowable,\" ','2003-05-04 05:25:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2406,1,3383,'68.117.129.22','jhorak','pjhwittig@yahoo.com','','He was trying to show his people they need to learn to rely on themselves and their shared knowledge rather than wait for him to tell them what they already know.','2003-05-04 05:55:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2408,1,3191,'217.39.111.186','tony blair','a@a.com','http://www.a.com','lets nuke france no one will miss them \r\n\r\nwe win france','2003-05-04 13:31:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2409,1,3191,'217.39.111.186','george W','w@gov.us','http://www.gov','good plan tony','2003-05-04 13:33:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2410,1,3398,'67.31.29.65','Diana','prairie_moon@earthlink.net','','The CNN article is from 1996. I believe that there was another election scheduled for four years later but Arafat canceled it, following hte usual practice in third world sinkholes:\r\n\r\nOne person, one vote, one time.\r\n\r\n\"Palestine became a predominately Arab and Islamic country by the end of the seventh century. \r\n\r\nIt didn\'t become a predominantly Arab and Islamic country by the end of the 7th century, it was conquered. And the process of Arab colonization took much longer. Said is simply buying the whole Muslim myth, which is now being eroded by modern scholarship.\r\n\r\nSee Patricia Crone and Michael Cook: Hagarism.\r\n\r\nEdward Said may be a first class lit crit, but he is not a historian.','2003-05-04 15:39:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2411,1,3383,'132.236.166.213','Steve','sda9@cornell.eduspam','http://www.hoosierreview.com/','My guess is that he, like some Zen masters, simply had no interest in teaching people. But I like your explanations better.','2003-05-04 16:20:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2412,1,3419,'66.129.135.82','xavier','buscaraons@netscape.net','http://www.buscaraons.blogspot.com','Trent:\r\nThis is worrisome. I see a combination of hubris and agressivenss creeping in. The American administration is learning the wrong lesson. It isn\'t just muscular military action, there\'s diplomacy, intelligence sharing, free trad eetc. Quite frankly, I\'m not impressed at America\'s adeptness on those fronts. I\'m sure I\'ll be proven wrong but for now I\'ll maitian my position.\r\n\r\nIt\'s too bad Schorder and Chirac screwed up but I hate to break it to the administration: Germany and France are still important economies and no matter how much Eastern Europe will benefit with the eastward shif of NATO, Eastern Europe isn\'t the continents motor. To reiterate my turgid position, politically isolating France and Germany and tanking their economies ill-serves American interests. \r\nAmerica with a few countries on the good guys list can\'t run the world economy. Weak South Korean, German and French economies will only reinforce anti-Americanism in each country because the population will percieve that America maliciously damaged their economies to serve as both as a lesson (no one will ever dare oppose the U.S.) and as a warning (if you ever do, your economy tanks immediately)\r\nWorse is that it\'ll make the war on terrorism last longer than it should because of the cold relations between like minded countries.\r\n\r\nxavier ','2003-05-04 20:06:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2413,1,3419,'80.228.39.212','Scott Hanson','shanson@shcon.com','http://www.papascott.de/','I disagree that the withdrawl of US troops will have any national (as opposed to local or regional) impact on Germany or on Schröder politically. It\'s a point I\'ve repeated a few times at my own blog.\r\n\r\n- Most of the troops are already gone. The number of US troops in Germany in 1990 was about 400,000. By 2001 that was down to about 75,000. \r\n\r\n- Those troops are concentrated in southwestern Germany, areas that already voted against Schröder and the SPD in the last election. I, for instance, live near Hamburg, and the impact of the US military on our local economy is nil.\r\n\r\n- Assuming rather generously that each soldier supports one local job, the impact of an immediate total withdrawl would be the loss of 75,000 jobs. Germany currently has nearly 5 million unemployed. An extra 75,000 would be a drop in the bucket.\r\n\r\n- The presence or absence of US troops will make absolutely no impact on German defense spending, since homeland defence is no longer a priority for the German military. German military policy today is focused more on Europe (EU/NATO) and special forces.','2003-05-04 20:27:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2414,1,3419,'209.63.54.225','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','xavier,\r\n\r\n Ruthlessness and agression are signatures of the American government at war. Get used to it.\r\n\r\n France and Germany are irrelevant because they chose to be, not because of anything America did. Iraq simply forced the American government\'s Euro-phils to admit to that reality.\r\n\r\n As far as I am concerned, NATO and multi-lateral trans-Atlantic security lost it\'s moral credibility in Srebrenicia. It lost it\'s military credibility in Kosovo. It lost it\'s political utility over Afghanistan. And it became a flat hinderance and a tool of America\'s enemies in Iraq.\r\n\r\n The American Straussian neo-cons are winning the foreign policy debate inside the American government because they have *something* and their multi-lateralist opponents in the Federal Executive branch, Congress, Europe and the global media have *NOTHING.* \r\n\r\n You cannot beat something with nothing. \r\n\r\n Multi-lateralism has failed the audit of war and will cease to be anything but a minor and career ending (for the fools that suggest it) tool of American diplomacy.','2003-05-04 20:27:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2415,1,3419,'209.63.54.225','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Scott,\r\n\r\n I made no claim about all of Germany. I said the following:\r\n\r\n \"This pull out will tube the Bavarian economy, which at the moment is the strongest and most capitalist province in Germany.\"','2003-05-04 20:30:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2416,1,3419,'80.228.39.212','Scott Hanson','shanson@shcon.com','http://www.papascott.de/','Trent,\r\n\r\nYou did however argue that stationing troops is a way to reward friends and punish enemies. The German economy is simply too big for punishment to work here.\r\n\r\nIf only the Bavarian economy gets tubed, then Schröder will really enjoy it, given the permanent absolute CSU majority there and state elections coming up this fall. \r\n\r\n(And one could argue whether the interventionist policies of the Bavarian state government, e.g. massive loans to Kirch, are particularly capitalist or not.)','2003-05-04 20:52:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2417,1,3383,'169.207.130.33','triticale','triticale@hotmail.com','','At one time Nasruddin went to India, where he taught that all understanding was summed up in two holy words. He attracted a sizeable following. \r\n\r\nHe was approached one day by one of his old students, who complained, \"You claim to be offering complete understanding, but all you are saying, in the Arabic which your following does not understand, \'I don\'t know\' and \'nobody knows\'.\"\r\n\r\nNasruddin replied, \"What would you have me do instead, lie to them?\"\r\n\r\nBTW, altho the title has fallen out of favor in our circles, Nasruddin was honored as a mullah.','2003-05-04 21:30:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2418,1,3419,'209.103.239.3','Fred Boness','fboness@excel.net','','Relations with France and Germany will improve when the next political generation moves up. The current generation may have hastened their demise with their over the top anti Americanism and insensitivity to the internal politics of their countries.\r\n\r\nCorruption cedrtainly isn\'t helping them but, that seems almost a side issue to the trend.','2003-05-04 22:09:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2419,1,3419,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Hmmm, where to start with the disagreements.\r\n\r\n[1] That making every country in the world a democracy is a sane, desirable, or extant goal of U.S. foreign policy - extrapolates far too much from a regional solution to a global one.\r\n\r\n[2] The damaging or even slowing Russian oil production is U.S. policy, given the demographics and projected worldwide demand which this administration well knows. Both Iraq and Russia will be encouraged to ramp up, with diplomacy around Russia centered on keeping Central Asia from becoming Russian vassal-states by giving them other transport options for their oil & gas (that means Turkey, and one day maybe Iran too).\r\n\r\n[3] That the troop pullout itself will be an economic blow to Germany, though the Germans understand that it signifies weaker ties and distrust. THAT is what they fear, because lower American demand for their products WOULD be a serious punch.\r\n\r\nThere are moves afoot by the Americans to reduce their dependence on Germany, and France will be punished. South Korea is also learning that the U.S. will no longer be jerked around, and that their alternatives are narrowing to \"base the Americans where they choose, or kiss them goodbye.\" These are all good things (xavier and I disagree there), and rather than reinforcing anti-Americanism it will quiet it sharply by making the game cost something real. Living in Canada, where he can see the beginnings of this effect first-hand, I\'m surprised Xavier made this mistake.\r\n\r\n\"Salvage & Destroy\" isn\'t a bad way of seeing current policy, and it yields some real insights if used judiciously. But triumphalism ill-befits a country still in the middle of its war, and stringing together a number of leaps of logic on questionable foundations will yield a scenario whose uncertainties and unlikelihood multiply with each addition. I wouldn\'t put 5 cents on this plan as presented, a plan which obscures rather than illuminates the key point of the article.','2003-05-04 22:13:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2420,1,3419,'62.78.148.124','JH','jussimhamalainen@luukku.com','','Xavier,Chirac and Scroeder took the anti-American line partly because they calculated there wouldn\'t be any serious payback from the Americans.So far,they have been right.Both know that whatever the amount of invective created,USA will still protect their countries from external threats,just as it has done for the past 60 years.\r\n\r\nOn the plus side,Schroeder won the election that could have ousted him from power. Chirac,meanwhile has gained unprecedented popularity in his own country as well as lots of new friends in the Arab world.So what\'s there to lose?Anti-Americanism having proven a winning formula,it will now be used over and over again in European politics.In a short time,\"blaming the yank\" has gone from a marginal leftist position to a vote-winner in most European countries.\r\n\r\nIn other words,if you think this is it,well,you ain\'t seen nothing yet.\r\n','2003-05-04 22:31:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2421,1,3157,'68.75.60.200','John Scallan','johnscallan@sbcglobal.com','','The 2003 graduating class of the Air Force Academy appears to be 1% criminal scum and 99% gutless cowards. God help the USA.\r\n','2003-05-04 23:43:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2422,1,3417,'66.74.67.107','inkgrrl','kari@inkgrrl.com','http://www.inkgrrl.com/inkblog.htm','Hey, maybe we should have just done supply drops of vibrators and lube to rebel factions - let the Baathists draw their own conclusions about America\'s fighting strengths.','2003-05-05 01:30:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2423,1,3419,'203.5.41.210','Andrew','use@my.web.page','http://www.livejournal.com/users/anachronym','\"Too flippin\' late Fritz, America is leaving.\"\r\n\r\nOogh. I do hope that the \'adults\' in charge of our country have a plan that amounts to more than pouting and sulking, and taking our ball and going home. While it might feel good to be able to say \'So there, you rotten europeans, how do you like -that-? You won\'t have Dick Nix^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAmerica to kick around anymore!\' it really strikes me as something less than a... productive approach.\r\n','2003-05-05 02:10:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2424,1,3420,'24.69.255.203','mike','searider@hotmail.com','','Hello; if you haven\'t read this story I encourage you to do so. If it\'s for real, and I assume it is, it\'s one of the most encouraging ones I\'ve ever heard.\r\nmike','2003-05-05 02:49:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2425,1,3419,'12.254.8.46','R Roberts','finalprotfire@attbi.com','','Evidently, Andrew and xavier advocate approaches that result in France and Germany avoiding the consequences of their own actions. Trying to cast the action they disagree with as \"juvenile\" is a poor way to present an argument. Finding it sophisticated to continue to subsidize countries that undermine us is a rather bizarre position.','2003-05-05 03:34:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2426,1,3038,'216.222.109.153','steve lang','grep55@yahoo.com','','I don\'t know anything about this site, but will post this as a trial balloon. \r\n\r\nFrench population is 10% Arab, half of which are unemployed. French police have had pitched battles with Arab youths that have burned down whole neighborhoods. Textbooks in Paris are published in Arabic. France has political, cultural and economic ties with many Arab countries going back 100 years in some cases. It is supposed to alienate and endanger its own citizens and destroy long standing relations with other countries by agreeing to a war dropping bombs on Arab children for the reason of a college term paper read in England by Colin Powell, or forged documents on Nigerian uranium sales? Fortunately there are world leaders smarter than ours. \r\n\r\nFrench police stopped a former member of the Tunisian soccer team from driving a van of explosives into the American embassy within days of 9/11, and it was no doubt with such potential events in mind that its government rightly refused to sign on to our militaristic television show. \r\n\r\n\r\n*Arab relations in French politics*\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-05 04:36:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2427,1,3419,'12.207.130.197','Sandy P.','fakeaddy@hotmail.com','','Dailypundit has also covered this topic and 2 Germans actually gave their opinions.\r\n\r\nNo biggie. But we\'ve made our arguments, they\'ve made theirs and now it\'s \"wait and see.\"\r\n\r\nBesides, we move out and that\'s one less thing they can rag US about. I\'m tired of their whining AND it has been 60 years. However, with this last little collaboration and delusions of grandeur, move em out. Talk about not growing up, yeesh.','2003-05-05 04:36:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2428,1,3419,'151.203.217.21','Klaatu','sansevero@tera.com','','I hope we\'re not leaving Germany. I liked my duty there, when my son enlisted I recommended it to him.\r\n\r\nSo, my son just got to Germany in January, now has to go to Iraq for a year, has an enlistment contract for EUROPE, not some bleak place like Ft. Riley, Kansas.\r\n\r\nSheesh, bad enough to have occupation duty for one year, but then to have to go from there to Nowhere, USA instead of the pleasant Bundesland of Hesse, that sucks.','2003-05-05 04:44:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2429,1,3424,'64.12.96.104','Robert Stevens','roboetal@aol.com','http://alphabetcity.blogspot.com/','Joe, Dan\'s post exposing the Qaida London connection is an excellent first post.\r\n\r\nPardon the effusion, but Dan is a great choice for a guest blogger.','2003-05-05 05:25:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2430,1,3425,'64.12.96.104','Robert Stevens','roboetal@aol.com','http://alphabetcity.blogspot.com/','Great work Dan.\r\n\r\nI noticed that Islam Online refers to the murders in Tel-Aviv as a, gag, \"self-bombing.\"\r\n\r\nScroll down the page and on the right sidebar one finds *\"Palestinian \"Self-bombing\" Not Suicidal: Israeli Expert.\"*\r\n\r\nMy expert opinion? \"Palestinian \"Self-bombing\" Is Not Suicidal, It\'s Homicidal.\"\r\n\r\nAn Israeli who is a member of the Palestinian terrorist apologisti? Double gag. \r\n\r\n','2003-05-05 05:48:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2431,1,3383,'64.12.96.104','Robert Stevens','roboetal@aol.com','http://alphabetcity.blogspot.com/','The Upanishad says:\r\n\r\n\"He who knows, knows not. He who knows not, knows.\"\r\n\r\nThe sage says: \r\n\r\n\"Liberation is illusory. The one you are looking for is the one who is looking. Abandon all seeking. Abide in that which you always already are -the touch of beingness - the knower, and all else will happen of it\'s accord.\"\r\n\r\nLet those who know tell those who don\'t.\r\n\r\n ','2003-05-05 06:53:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2432,1,3425,'206.190.18.142','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','\r\nI call them Palestinian National Suicide Bombers.\r\n\r\n========================\r\n\r\nI think this development is in fact excellent. I think it will force some re-orientation in MI-5 & 6. Also it will strengthen Blair if he decides to be more supportive of Israel. \r\n\r\nIt is also a sure sign the road map is DOA. And not from a directly Palestinian source.\r\n\r\nIn addition the fiction that Israeli terror is different from other terror is not so easy to support. \r\n\r\nThe dead have paid a price that leads to victory. Their deaths are not in vain.','2003-05-05 08:53:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2433,1,3419,'217.2.182.79','brmic','brmic@freenet.de','http://brmic.blogspot.com','for one, the sf-chronicle is riddled with errors and misrepresentations. check my entry here and please tell me who the f%ck is Hasenstein. Second, Koch as a Christian Democrat will use anything (even 250 in 5 million) to attack Schroeder on economic issues. Finally, please stop confusing criticism with anti-Americanism. Where does that crap come from? Our countries have been good friends for over 50 years, we disagree with you and consequently don\'t support you on one issue, and suddenly we\'re anti-American?\r\nFinally, as to whether the US needs Europe, well it seems Kissinger disagrees here. And while K. may not be particularly influential (though he\'s on the Def. Pol. Board) he definitivly is an expert in foreign affairs.','2003-05-05 09:53:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2434,1,3419,'65.59.85.209','DSmith','dsmith@tnor.org','http://tnor.org/blog/','brmic, don\'t confuse anti-Americanism with criticism.\r\n\r\nBecause that\'s what\'s driving this whole thing from the European populace, anti-Americanism. It\'s been there for decades, and building. When it came up in public, which was often, Americans have previously been polite enough to pretend to not notice.\r\n\r\nWell, no more. We\'ve had it.\r\n\r\nAs to the European leadership, that\'s been driven by motives much more cynical and self-serving than anti-Americanism, but they were happy to piggyback on the anti-Americanism of the populace.\r\n\r\nSpare us the backpedaling and the \"oh we were only criticizing, can\'t we do that?\" Old Europe was actively conspiring with the enemies of the United States. Knowingly. In the expectation that the US would do nothing, and it would be a win-win for them. Well, this time it ain\'t gonna work that way. Get used to it.\r\n\r\nAs to all this claim that \"we\'re still allies\", keep telling yourself that. Because that\'s not how it looks from over here.\r\n','2003-05-05 12:13:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2435,1,3425,'68.160.206.191','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','I agree. When the coalition net was closing around Saddam, Arafat felt moved to publically distance his movement from Saddam. Now he may feel it necessary to publically distance his movement from Al Qeda. Having to say to his fellow Arab fanatics \"I don\'t want your support\" already puts him in the position of guilt by association.','2003-05-05 13:17:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2436,1,3425,'12.23.2.98','Diana','prairie_moon@earthlink.net','','Sure Arafat will publicly distance himself from al Qaida…...that\'s the pragmatic thing to do and he\'s always done the pragmatic thing.\r\n\r\n….Regarding Blair (et al), cooperating with Israel covertly to fight terror orgs. doesn’t stop them from thinking that “occupation causes terror”. They can do one and believe the other. And that’s what they do—so they won’t stop leaning on Israel to create a Pal. State.\r\n','2003-05-05 14:45:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2437,1,3424,'68.160.206.191','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Dan, I can\'t tell it\'s not Joe. It\'s seamless. Great job.','2003-05-05 15:13:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2438,1,3419,'66.129.135.82','xavier','buscaraons@netscape.net','http://www.buscaraons.blogspot.com','Joe:\r\nMy concern is just how sincere will the pro-Americanism be in some countries? To me, we\'ll just see a façade of pro-Americanism; at worse we\'ll see some will reduce their bilateral relationships because they\'ll conclude that right now it just isn\'t worth the aggravation to irriatate the Americans no matter how trivial a disagreement.\r\nI\'m preparing a blog article on a strange decision brought about by the Administrationn\'s desire to punish those countries that opposed the war.\r\n\r\nTrent:\r\nThe world might get used to ruthlessless and agression but that doesn\'t mean it\'ll put up with it for very long.\r\n\r\nRobert: No I don\'t advocate that France in particular should be immune from the consequences of its action. What I expect is proportionality that\'s lacking. I\'m not the only one increasing voicing this concern:\r\ncf:\r\nhttp://www.beautifulhorizons.blogspot.com/2003_05_01_beautifulhorizons_archive.html#93627928\r\nHe\'s American living in Brazil (Belo Horizante to be specific)\r\n\r\nxavier\r\n\r\n','2003-05-05 16:01:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2439,1,3419,'172.145.154.224','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','xavier,\r\nYou\'re daft if you think ruthlessness and aggression haven\'t always been the law of the land. It\'s just that before it was much more hidden.','2003-05-05 16:46:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2440,1,2274,'24.217.71.119','Dennis OFallon','dofallon01@earthlink.net','','Great article! I found Said\'s \"deconstruction\" of Bernard Lewis works to be so petty. E. Said has similar criticism of V. S. Naipaul(Among Believers) in the afterward of the 1994 edition of Orientalism. Bernard Lewis is a national treasure. ','2003-05-05 17:00:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2441,1,3316,'66.103.47.71','Jennifer','snoopy377@hotmail.com','http://nil','Jean Chretien sucks at hockey! He checked me when we played! I hate him! He hit me! He cheated on me!','2003-05-05 18:16:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2442,1,3316,'66.103.47.71','Jennelle','snoopy377@hotmail.com','http://nil','I hate Jean! Hes an ugly fruit with no sense of humor! I wish he would dissapear! how come we\'re not aloud to fish off the shores of our own province and other people are? Makes you wander, hunh? Plus when I was dating him(dont no why) I found a used condom on his floor! Vote him out!','2003-05-05 18:21:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2443,1,3419,'192.18.42.11','ruprecht','ruprechtschwarz@excite.com','http://www.ruprechtschwarz.com','Two comments about Germany: (1) It has often been said in the past that NATO in Europe was to keep the US in, the Russians out, and the Germans down. It will be interesting if the British people still feel that way. The troops have not been needed to keep the Germans down for decades but bad feelings sometimes last. (2) The divide between North and South Germany is even larger than that between East and West Germany these days. The US should suggest that Bavaria join the EU as a member state instead of as a state within Federal Germany. If the Germans are serious about the EU this shouldn\'t bother them but somehow I think the mere suggestion would drive them crazy.\r\n\r\nThe mere suggestion will cause the Spanish and the English (who have Basque and Scottish/Welsh independence movements to consider) to at least start debating the EU situation again.','2003-05-05 18:22:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2444,1,3419,'151.203.217.21','Klaatu','sansevero@tera.com','','ruprecht, it is my impression that the EU promotes regional identity at the expense of national identity, the better for it to supersede national identity. What I saw in Europe were constant references, celebrations and promotions of these \"regions,\" e.g. an exhibit/festival regarding the Castile/Leon region of Spain in Amsterdam, Sicilian exhibitions/food fairs in Ireland. All funded by the EU. Degrade the national to establish the supernational.\r\n','2003-05-05 21:38:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2445,1,3428,'151.203.217.21','Klaatu','sansevero@tera.com','','1. I went to the \"Orwell 2003\" conference at Wellesley last week. Prof Jonathan Rose from Drew U. said that \"the personal is political\" is an idea kin to \"war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorence is strength,\" citing the Anti-sex League in 1984.\r\n\r\n2. The regulatory state has been on the run for years. The result is a new rapaciousness not seen since the robber-baron days. If you don\'t believe me, do a Google search for \"Leasecomm\" or \"Leasecomm scam,\" to cite one example I have knowledge of.','2003-05-05 21:45:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2446,1,3419,'192.18.42.11','ruprecht','ruprechtschwarz@excite.com','http://www.ruprechtschwarz.com','Klaatu, I do not disagree. My point is that the Eu elites have considered this and probably accepted it as necessary but the masses have not absorbed the ramifications. \r\n\r\nIt\'s one thing to be proud of your province, its another to have direct representation.It\'s one thing for Germany to promote the EU, and another to watch the wealthy Bavarian taxbase leave the Federal Republic.','2003-05-05 21:53:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2447,1,3419,'151.203.217.21','Klaatu','sansevero@tera.com','','Yes, I agree, ruprecht. This is a totally EU elite-driven strategy: seemingly innocuous but insidious. They are trying to promote regional identity, get people to think of themselves as Bavarians, Sicilians, etc.','2003-05-05 22:10:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2448,1,3428,'216.168.239.87','Kevin Aylward','findit@atmyblog.com','http://wizbang.blogspot.com/','If they want to invade my hard drive, they will have to pay for that privledge. My proposal:\r\n\r\nhttp://wizbang.blogspot.com/2003_05_04_wizbang_archive.html#93810441','2003-05-05 22:23:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2449,1,3419,'138.133.17.9','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Trent - I know we don\'t see eye to eye on many issues around Europe, but skipping that, I think your hubris is writing checks that America really can\'t cash...\r\n\r\nThe thing that the anti-Americans forget is their irrelevance. America is strong enough now that it can dispense with unreliable allies....to do what?? Beat a third- or fourth-rate conventional military?? yes, we can do that, and no individual state - not even China - can realistically stand up to our military; but there are a lot of states out there. \r\n\r\nI think you\'re misreading changes in the American-European alliance...which were inevitible after the fall of the Wall...with sea chanegs in the role of America in the world.\r\n\r\nI\'ll chew on this and maybe blog something...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-05 22:47:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2450,1,3428,'62.252.96.6','David Newton','davidp_newton@hotmail.com','','What those clowns are proposing is highly illegal. It is hacking into people\'s computers, distributing what are effectively computer viruses or trojan horse programs, and possibly conducting denial of service attacks. I agree with the comment that if the industry does do this, then the big five record companies deserve to die as entities. I feel sorry for the employees who would lose thier jobs as part of that process, but not for the sheer blind stupidity of the bosses.\r\n\r\nThey have missed the boat with having too high CD prices for too many albums. They have missed the boat by not offering their catalogues for internet distribution by technically accessible and fairly priced means. They have missed the boat by trying to shut down services where people compensate for the second dose of idiocy (albeit through channels that are in themselves illegal). Now they are really trying to destroy themselves. Losing sales is one thing; getting hit by a multibillion dollar class action law suit (and given the number of people this could potentially affect, talking in terms of such figures is not outlandish) would literally destroy the companies.','2003-05-05 23:04:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2451,1,3428,'63.201.140.202','Andy Freeman','anamax@earthlink.net','','If you\'ve got a small biz and suddenly your computers start acting up, you might look more carefully at Windows.\r\n\r\nAt some point, it might be cheaper for Microsoft to simply buy the major studios and let \"record piracy\" flourish. The alternative - harden Windows or lose market share to secure platforms.','2003-05-05 23:55:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2452,1,3416,'204.124.240.254','T. Hartin','zgolem@yahoo.com','','A.L. - \r\n\r\nResistance is futile. Return to the roots of liberalism, that which is now called \"libertarian.\" \r\n\r\nThe Pomos are easy to beat out in the real world. All they have to offer is bluff disguised by cant. I have found the easiest way to deal with Pomos is to deny them the ability to discuss purely in terms of abstractions by confronting them with examples. \r\n\r\n\"Oh, so no culture is inherently superior to another because the standards by which we judge other cultures are designed to empower ours and denigrate theirs. I suppose that female genital mutilation is just another cultural expression that we would be wrong to outlaw. Do you think it should be covered by insurance?\" \r\n\r\n\"Are there any grounds for cultures that hold that slavery is a proper expression of their superiority over more primitive tribes?\"\r\n\r\nThe shallowness of Pomo thinking is easily exposed by the complexity of the real world.','2003-05-06 00:04:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2453,1,3416,'204.124.240.254','T. Hartin','zgolem@yahoo.com','','Oops, should be:\r\n\r\n\"Are there any grounds for criticizing cultures that hold that slavery is a proper expression of their superiority over more primitive tribes?\"','2003-05-06 00:05:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2454,1,3428,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','These guys apparently never heard of civil RICO either. Such attacks will impact work computers too - injury to \"trade or business\". I.e., treble damages and a reasonable attorney\'s fee. Not to mention the antitrust possibilities and state unfair trade practices laws. California\'s is vague and ominous - any business practice which a jury finds to be unfair.\r\n\r\nI hope these idiots try. Think of it as evolution in action.','2003-05-06 00:20:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2455,1,3428,'168.179.236.64','AST','thorpe@co.emery.ut.us','','They\'ve already charged me too much for music I had already paid for when it came out on vinyl or cassette tape. I believe in property rights, but I have no sympathy for these people. They\'re abusing their power and corrupting our democracy.','2003-05-06 00:20:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2456,1,3428,'68.62.4.187','Tomas','sorry@private-email.com','','While I agree that these proposed measures are onerous -- and legal eagles I trust have questioned their lawfulness -- I\'m curious about something: Have you reserved this same sort of passion for the widespread infringement of copyright that occurs on P2P programs? Or are you like so many others, who decry these RIAA tactics while making endless justifications for file-sharing?\r\n\r\n','2003-05-06 00:21:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2457,1,3430,'198.209.226.130','Paul A\'Barge','paul.abarge@email.com','http://ytmag.com','pale.\r\n\r\nNot Pail.\r\n','2003-05-06 00:29:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2458,1,3430,'151.203.217.21','Klaatu','sansevero@tera.com','','Guess what? The Germans ARE our friends, or at least will be if we let them. Maybe even more so if they warn us that the USA is turning into a police state. Plenty of Americans are saying the same thing.\r\n\r\nI lived in Germany for 2 1/2 years in the 70s, during the Baader-Meinhof days, as an American soldier. I\'ve been back in 84, 85, 88, 91, 99 and in February 03. I\'ve worked with the German military. I can read and understand enough German to get the jist of their newspapers and news programs. \r\n\r\nI\'ve had encounters with the German police for traffic violations and rowdiness and encounters with US police for the same. The German police were always professional and had a good sense of humor - something not always true of US cops.\r\n\r\nThe Germans hosted the presence of a large US force on their soil for decades. As allies, not as an occupied people, although some GIs I knew thought of it that way.\r\n\r\nGermany is now a democratic, tolerant, liberal state with much to admire, even to learn from. The unending attacks on countries which differed from us only on the risky war with Iraq are indicative of someone who never understood the value of the NATO alliance.','2003-05-06 00:35:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2459,1,3428,'65.71.151.234','Paul Victor Novarese','example@example.com','http://gammatron.novarese.net/','Debating the legality of these measures is moot. I\'m sure part of the plan is greasing enough congressmen to *make* these legal before actually unleashing them.','2003-05-06 01:04:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2460,1,3416,'65.164.200.33','WildMonk','wildmonk@wildmonk.net','http://wildmonk.net','Porphyrogenitus,\r\n\r\nI disagree with your sense of pessimism regarding the power of what you call \"Bad Philosophy\" (and that I have called the hard left). I wrote an extended essay on the roots of the hard left perspective (in Rousseau\'s critique of bourgeois society) over at WildMonk.net a few weeks back (search for \"Cold War\" to find the piece if you are interested). While it is framed in terms of foreign policy, it applies equally well to the internal cultural struggle.\r\n\r\nI think there is reason for optimism for two reasons. First, you worry that the liberal left has not developed philosophical antibodies to the hard left. You lament their assumption of the levers of power in key spots of the democratic party and in academia. To this extent, you are correct.\r\n\r\nBut society as a whole *has* developed a philosophical resistance to these ideas. We see it in the rise of the blogosphere, the popularity of more conservative media outlets, and even in popular culture. We see it in the strong electoral advantage the Republicans enjoy over Democrats whenever a Democrat begins spouting the hard left line (Cynthia McKinney anyone?). Finally, we see it in the rise of alternative intellectual centers of power such as the conservative think-tanks. Which do you believe truly has more power - the Heritage Foundation or the Women\'s Studies Department at Harvard?\r\n\r\nFurthermore, the arguments that you and others have made *are* being heard. I myself was quite deeply embedded in a hard left crew some years back and it took only a modest dose of real life experience for me to recognize the fundamental disconnect between the reality of American experience and the hard left descriptions of it. I remain committed to the ideals of liberalism that the hard left trades in but have come to recognize that the hard left is itself the biggest modern threat to those very ideals. I am not alone.\r\n\r\nFinally, Capitalism is itself a hard-assed beast. It has an amazing capacity to co-opt the forces that work against it; to assimilate them and render them impotent. I see little chance of it going willingly into that dark night.\r\n\r\nBest regards,\r\n\r\nMark Brittingham','2003-05-06 01:10:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2461,1,3430,'67.31.47.172','Diana','prairie_moon@earthlink.net','','Well, I guess they should know.','2003-05-06 01:19:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2462,1,3428,'216.17.46.234','veryretired','mbott@usinternet.com','','I do not download music from computers, so I do not have the obvious self-interested indignation of the author of this blog or the previous comments, so let me point out the two most obvious logical consequences of your position.\r\n1) No copyrighted material can be legitimately protected in the world of computers if enough people decide it is better, or at least more desireable, to have it endlessly copied for free. Companies who produce this material, if any manage to exist, are criminal if they try to stop people from taking it online without paying any appropriate fee. This would include printed, audio, and video material, from the least to the greatest in demand, including blogs. \r\n2)Intellectual property rights are meaningless if anyone can find and popularize a way of obtaining the material for free. It is therefore now adviseable to abandon any efforts to stop the production of unauthorized CD\'s, DVD\'s, or reprints of any popular book or magazine, as the very attempt to stop the copying is itself an assault on the rights of those doing the copying, and is akin to a criminal conspiracy. \r\nHow you holding this opinion expect any creative person to continue to produce material that you may then take for free at your leisure is not addressed in your previous comments. Perhaps you should consider it, especially if your ambitions to a future livlihood include any of the creative arts. \r\n ','2003-05-06 01:33:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2463,1,3428,'68.19.4.72','malory','cart6566@bellsouth.net','','I don\'t think the author is asking for the abolishment of copyrights. He is asking that they just sell the material online, so that he can continue to download music in his preferred format, rather than prosecuting him for making a mix CD for his girlfriend. Makes sense to me. Doesn\'t seem like it would be that hard, but even if it takes a while, don\'t go gestapo on your customers in the meantime.','2003-05-06 01:49:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2464,1,3428,'68.62.4.187','Tomas','nope@nope.com','','\"Doesn\'t seem like it would be that hard, but even if it takes a while, don\'t go gestapo on your customers in the meantime.\"\r\n\r\nWhere is this whole notion of \"customers\" coming from, anyway? Someone who swipes content off P2P doesn\'t exactly deserve the respect of those whose creations he\'s stealing.\r\n\r\nThat aside, could someone please tell me why a technology that\'s been around for about five years has taken on this kind of quasi-spiritual connotation? OK, so file-sharing technology suddenly exists -- wowee. That doesn\'t eradicate centuries\' worth of the principles that guide copyright law.\r\n\r\nIf certain record labels don\'t offer songs in your \"preferred format,\" then don\'t patronize them. If there are enough of you, then another supplier will come into the market to give you what you want. Meanwhile, their stuff isn\'t yours to take or to copy and give away.\r\n\r\nYou don\'t have a \"right\" to music. Why is this so hard to understand? ','2003-05-06 02:11:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2465,1,3430,'66.41.150.17','Guy Hall','cdguy@attbi.com','','Sorry to say this, but i agree, This Great Nation of ours is moving away from the freedom that is so loudly and fiercly states it is defending.','2003-05-06 02:21:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2466,1,3428,'68.158.16.48','malory','cart6566@bellsouth.net','','Tomas:\r\n\r\nI suppose then that you would condemn me to the 8th circle of hell because I made mix tapes for my friends by recording songs on the radio when I was in grade school? Get real. Music buyers (customers, if you will) figured out how to distribute files universally before the stupid RIAA did, so they should go to jail? For making mix CDs? Man, your sense of justice is whacked out. If the RIAA really wanted to make their artists money, they would have something up and running (like the latest Mac service) that offers universal catalogues at reasonable prices (dollar a song sounds about right). It just isn\'t asking that much.\r\n\r\nMore RIAA intransigence: \"labelling is censorship!!\" Like they care. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030505/hl_nm/lyrics_thought_dc_1','2003-05-06 02:30:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2467,1,3428,'4.61.200.154','Fiamma','fiamma@earthlink.net','','I have been buying music for approximately 50 years. First 78\'s, then 45\'s, then 33, then reel to reel, then cassette, and finally CD. Each time we had a leap in recording technology and the format changed you upgraded your collection if you could afford to do so.\r\n\r\nThe record labels made a lot of money from the technology changes in those days. Then suddenly technology changed again and they either couldn\'t smell the coffee or they froze up because they could not imagine how to use it to once again benefit (enrich) themselves.\r\n\r\nAll during this period they charged all the traffic would bear, and somewhere I read an article some time ago that they were in fact caught price fixing between themselves.\r\n\r\nI am inordinately fond of Bill Evans, a jazz pianist that has been dead for over 22 years now.\r\n\r\nMany of his vinyl recordings had never been converted to CD, but his \"cult\" following is so large that they are putting out CD\'s like crazy these days. They are even reformatting albums that were out on CD already in higher formats, and charging a very stiff price for them.\r\n\r\nJust this past Holiday season they released the second sets of his last concert at the Keystone Korner in San Francisco at a cost of $125.00. Mind you these are the \'second\' sets of that concert. The \'first\' sets have long been out in another boxed set at a similar price. In addition many of the tracks were issued within a month of his death by two different labels.\r\n\r\nI have to assume the various labels own his copyrights and of course they just got them extended again via the Congress some time back, so who is making the money? The label or his widow and family if they are still with us?\r\n\r\nThe feeble effort they have made to make any music available online does not portend well for the future. I seriously doubt we will ever see jazz, for example, available for download from a music service at a reasonable rate.\r\n\r\nI am a collector of music. Once I have it I want to make it portable. I want to play it at home, play it at work, play it in my car. Copying music under the Digital Millenium act is forbidden, so how do I make it portable? What happened to \'fair use\'? I PAID for the music, am I to pay for it twice again to have it at work and in the car?\r\n\r\nI have never traded files online, but sometimes I get so perturbed at the music industry and their attitudes that I feel like trying to learn how to make mp3 files out of my CD\'s and doing it as a form of protest. Now that they avow using software to invade computers, I think it might be unwise....however the urge still asserts itself everytime I read another article that purports to tell me what I can and cannot do with something I bought and paid for.\r\n\r\nMy personal opinion is that the recording industry has been shown to abuse the musicians and the songwriters when it comes time to fork over money, there isn\'t much new music out there that is worth buying and I am tired of making the labels and their officers rich. \r\n\r\nRant over ;)\r\n\r\n\r\n ','2003-05-06 02:37:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2468,1,3428,'68.62.4.187','Tomas','ugh@no.com','','Fiamma, the DMCA doesn\'t forbid you from making a copy of a CD you own, for your own use. Where\'d you get that idea?\r\n','2003-05-06 02:53:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2469,1,3428,'151.196.46.169','Daniel McAndrew','dwmcandrrew@hotmail.com','','!. The only thing the RIAA understands is money.\r\n\r\n2. My money will stay in my pocket and I determine where it goes. (Aside from recurring bills for food, shelter & sustaining working needs).\r\n\r\n3. If I want to download music that I decide to purchase, it may very well be through Apple\'s new site. (At $.99 per song, that should be a no brainer.)\r\n\r\n4. The rest of my purchases will never result an store bought audio cd\'s ever again. (Besides, I\'ve been buying DVD\'s instead for well over a year now anyway. Didn\'t anyone else suspect that was where our extra cash went anyway?)\r\n\r\nSo there, RIAA.\r\nNyah, nyah, nyah.\r\n\r\nP.S. My computer was bought by MY money, no one else\'s - so anyone else can\'t enter it without my permission. (Meaning, my firewall, my spybot, my anti-virus apps that I bought will always endeavor to keep idiots like them, & others, out.)\r\n\r\n','2003-05-06 03:17:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2470,1,3428,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Frankly, what we think of file-sharing is irrelevant. RIAA is proposing to unleash hostile computer programs through the Internet. These agents would damage property that does not belong to them, possibly beyond repair, because the software THINKS that person may have crossed a line.\r\n\r\nNo investigation, no warrant, no charges, no legal procedings. None.\r\n\r\nDoes this mean I\'m allowed to walk into record executives\' houses and shoot them, because my software tells me it THINKS they may have committed murder? Don\'t think so.\r\n\r\nThis isn\'t the first time we\'ve covered stuff like this, and it\'s not isolated. It\'s part of a long pattern by a group that truly seeks to place itself above the law, and failing that to monitor each and every person\'s viewing and computing activities. RIAA and its allies are more out of control than the problem they\'re addressing, and far, far more dangerous.','2003-05-06 03:19:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2471,1,3428,'68.62.4.187','Tomas','still@no-email.com','','\"It\'s part of a long pattern by a group that truly seeks to place itself above the law\"\r\n\r\nSorta like the pro-downloading contingent?\r\n\r\nAs I said, the RIAA\'s proposed measures are worthy of criticism. I\'m still curious, though, if you reserve this kind of passion for other violations of property, such as copyright infringement.\r\n\r\nIn the context of the question I\'ve asked, what you think of file-sharing IS relevant.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-06 03:25:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2472,1,3430,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','First of all, there are positive stories from Germany too. Second, I have real and serious concerns about recent developments, from RIAA efforts to Patriot Act II.\r\n\r\nThat said, it certainly isn\'t the place of a diplomat to make such comments. Especially comments with such an hysterical tone. It\'s a manifestation of the deeper anti-Americanism within Germany, and that\'s a real problem for the Germans if they want improved relations. Egregious politicking can be turned on and off at will - but deeper prejudices and even hatreds cannot.\r\n\r\nPersonally, I expect more of these incidents. I also expect them to have real costs over time. This relationship will get chillier before it gets warmer.','2003-05-06 03:29:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2473,1,3430,'208.187.72.105','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Paul A\'Barge,\r\n\r\n Thanks for the catch. I have corrected that. \r\n\r\nKlaatu,\r\n\r\n Some of the German people are our friends, not the majority. That is why Gerhardt the Frog wanna be is in charge in Germany. \r\n\r\n Face facts, the old relationship with Germany has failed the audit of war. \r\n\r\n Germany is in a peaceful backwater and the bases we have there are too far away from where America needs to project military power -- Central Asia and the Middle East. \r\n\r\n Exactly what is in it for America to more troops back to Germany from the Middle East? We did that after the first Gulf War. Why should we incur those costs to return troops to those bases again and chance their deployment being held hostage to much less friendly German political elites next time?\r\n\r\n Hells bells, the nominally more allied Italians held up the Deployment of the 173rd Brigade to Iraq for 2-3 days. \r\n\r\n The chances that the Germans will do the same in the future approaches certainty because the Italians got away with it this time.\r\n\r\n Nope. You are going to see a permanent rotating deployment of one to two heavy divisions to Iraq with Germany virtually American ground troop free.\r\n\r\n The advantages in sailing time for American fast sea lift ships to the Mid East with heavy equipment from the American East coast, compared to a German Baltic or North Sea port, amounts to 12-48 hours. It just is not worth putting up with continental European politics for the sake of that small time advantage.\r\n\r\n America will have a forward garrision in Iraq to cover heavy equipment preposition sets of another 1-2 heavy divisions for troops airlifted from America. \r\n\r\n Bases in Europe will be primarily for American air refueling tankers and naval stores.','2003-05-06 04:20:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2474,1,3419,'208.187.72.105','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','I said most of this in the comments section of another post, but it bears repeating here.\r\n\r\nTo start with, the old relationship with Germany has failed the audit of war. \r\n\r\nGermany is in a peaceful backwater and the bases we have there are too far away from where America needs to project military power -- Central Asia and the Middle East. \r\n\r\nExactly what is in it for America to more troops back to Germany from the Middle East? We did that after the first Gulf War. Why should we incur those costs to return troops to German bases again and chance their deployment being held hostage to German domestic politics next time?\r\n\r\nHells bells, the nominally more allied Italians held up the deployment of the 173rd Brigade to Iraq for 2-3 days. Something that was missed by the newsies during the war.\r\n\r\nThe chances that the Germans will do the same in the future approaches certainty because the Italians got away with it this time.\r\n\r\nNope. You are going to see a permanent rotating deployment of one to two heavy divisions to Iraq with Germany virtually American ground troop free.\r\n\r\nThe advantages in sailing time for American fast sea lift ships to the Mid-East with heavy equipment from the American East Coast, compared to a German Baltic or North Sea ports, amounts to 12-48 hours. It just is not worth putting up with continental European politics for the sake of that small time advantage.\r\n\r\nAmerica will have a forward garrision in Iraq to cover heavy equipment preposition sets of another 1-2 heavy divisions for troops airlifted from America. Bases in Europe will be primarily for American air refueling tankers and naval stores.\r\n\r\nAnd please note, Rumsfeld was planning this German base realignment back during the Bush Administration transition in 2001. The political manna from the Iraqi victory gave him his window to do what he wanted too anyway.\r\n','2003-05-06 04:38:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2475,1,3428,'209.83.111.76','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Business works like this for those who have never studied it:\r\n\r\nYou sell a product the customer wants at a price the customer is willing to pay.\r\n\r\nNew technology has lowered the price a customer is willing to pay.\r\n\r\nTough.\r\n\r\n=================================================\r\n\r\nLet me put it this way:\r\n\r\nThe Grateful Dead managed to make quite a bit of $$$ giving their music away. \r\n\r\nHow is it a bunch of hippie proto-communists are smarter than the record company capitalists?\r\n\r\n================================================\r\n\r\nThe secret is simple:\r\n\r\nYou sell a product the customer wants at a price the customer is willing to pay.\r\n\r\n================================================\r\n\r\nIf songs no longer command a premium you get out of the song business and into the merchandise buisness.\r\n\r\nBTW the music business with it\'s thinly disguised payola is one of the most corrupt in America.\r\n\r\nIn the 60s and 70s when I was an engineer at several radio stations the sales men regularly came around with bags of cocaine for the on the air talent, music directors, and station managers. To get their records played. The only thing that has changed is that the money goes directly to the station owners.\r\n\r\nGuess what. As long as the record companies pay the station owners the owners don\'t give a damn about their audiences.\r\n\r\nThe corallary to that is that the audience no longer gives a damn about the music.\r\n\r\n================================================\r\n\r\nMy sons who are deep into music prefer the 60s music on the oldies station to current pop offerings.\r\n\r\nSince when did teenagers like their parent\'s music?\r\n\r\nThis is proof positive the record companies are out of touch with their markets.\r\n\r\n===============================================\r\n\r\nThe record companies would be losing sales with or without file sharing. File sharing may make things worse but it is not the root cause of the problem.\r\n\r\nThe root cause is that the companies no longer care about their customers.','2003-05-06 06:03:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2476,1,3428,'209.83.111.76','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Copyright is a government granted limited time monopoly.\r\n\r\nThe content manufacturers have been going to congress frequently to get their \'limited time\' extended.\r\n\r\nBasically copyright has become an unlimited time monopoly. Practically nothing is going into the public domain any more.\r\n\r\nPrime example: Disney was about to lose the rights to the mouse. It went to congress and now the mouse is good for another 75 years (or is it 100?).\r\n\r\nAnd still they can\'t make enough $$$$. \r\n\r\nSo they come up with a way to destroy their customer\'s equipment to prevent loss of sales. \r\n\r\nIn effect they are making their product a danger to their customers. \r\n\r\nBrilliant. Fookin brilliant.\r\n\r\n==============================================\r\n\r\nLet us take a hypothetical.\r\n\r\nSuppose a spammer sends out snips of \"music\" that the \"anti-piracy\" software would recognize. The anti-piracy software then goes to town on your hard drive.\r\n\r\nNo criminal act has been comitted but your drive is trashed as if a malicious virus had gotten through your protective screen. \r\n\r\n===============================================\r\n\r\nWhen it comes to file sharing the law is as helpless as it is when it comes to drug prohibition.\r\n\r\nWe either face reality or keep pissing into the wind.\r\n\r\nLaws and virus attacks are not going to bring back the old model of the music business.\r\n\r\nLive free or die.','2003-05-06 06:21:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2477,1,3430,'150.69.89.131','Robert Long','long@dhs.kyutech.ac.jp','','Shame to see Americans SO INTOLERANT of other people\'s views. Having lived in Germany and had visited and even married there, I can say that the people are honest and friendly. Sure, you might not like what they say, but at least they are willing to tell the truth! Now that I have been living in Japan for over 9 years, I could see from my last trip to the states, in March, how bad things have gotten. Cable TV spits out this right-wing venom, CNN has gotten into the act by hiring right-wing thugs from FOX, and to see each TV channel glorify and praise Bush ENDLESSLY makes me sick. Today, Paula Zahn was interviewing Al Gore\'s daughter, telling her, \"Geez, how great it was to see Bush land on the deck of an AIRCRAFT CARRIER\" going on to say, how \"neat\" or impressive that was, and implying that was a good reason for staying with Bush. It just goes to show you that these Americans love being brainwashed and in the final analysis are no different from the Chinese under Mao. GLAD I LEFT. If you want to know the real truth about what is going on, read Michael Moore\'s book or read Norman Mailer\'s comments on Bush. http://www.commonwealthclub.org/2002.html\r\n\r\nFinally, it\'s interesting to note how Bush\'s ten nation (coalition) resembles that of the Roman Empire, and how the AntiChrist will rule the world with 10 nations. \r\n\r\nEnjy! ','2003-05-06 06:41:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2478,1,3430,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Bill Gates will rule the world with 10 nations! Who knew? (Michael Moore, maybe, or perhaps Norman Mailer)','2003-05-06 07:22:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2479,1,3419,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Trent - \r\n\r\nYou\'re making my point. This isn\'t a punitive response to Germany\'s bad behavior, it\'s a rational one to respond to the real threats our military needs to face.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-06 07:26:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2480,1,3430,'208.223.218.36','Jeremy','jer@connectria.com','','The US a police state? Hmmm, seems to me, Germany is the place with all those laws against free speech. And the EU is the place where laws in one member country apply to others, without any sort of recourse.\r\n\r\nYes, in the US, if you happen to be a member of a terrorist group, you might occasionally be hassled by the FBI. So in that aspect, it\'s much worse than the EU. ','2003-05-06 08:03:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2481,1,3430,'12.47.68.74','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Gee, I was going to chime in here with something witty, but all the deep thinking has already been done. \"AntiChrist\" Yeah, keep it highbrow folks.\r\nI would think/hope/bet that there are plenty of fine citizens in Germany who still think of the U.S. as an ally, a trading partner, and a friend. There are certainly those in America that hold Germans in that regard. As is demonstrated in the posts here though, there are probably enough jerks in both countries to drag us both down too.','2003-05-06 10:42:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2482,1,3419,'216.190.71.199','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','A.L.,\r\n\r\n Good politicans rarely do anything for a single reason. That is the mark of good policymaking.','2003-05-06 12:36:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2483,1,3428,'64.73.73.18','SparcVark','lanzknecht@hotmail.com','',' I think what\'s happening here is that RIAA is coming up against the philosophical issue of limits of control. Like it or not, they\'re competing against file piracy. Barring a totalitarian state, file sharing will continue. It\'s too difficult to lock down entirely without the collusion of OS programmers and the like.\r\n\r\n Taking measures like this that smack of arrogance and infuriate their remaining legitimate customers will not help. Passing Mickey-Mouse laws like the DCMA to defer copyrights in perpetuity will not help. RIAA honestly thinks that if they shout hard enough, mp3 files and the like will go away - and I think this is preventing them from making good business decisions.','2003-05-06 15:03:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2484,1,3428,'146.145.42.2','IB Bill','industrialblog@hotmail.com','http://industrialblog.blogspot.com','Lots of good thoughts here. I\'d like to expand on an idea in these comments. \r\n\r\nWhile the record companies have a right to defend their intellectual property, their own distribution methods are oligarchical and exploitative. That is, the major record labels have a near-monopoly on the distribution of music AND how it is distributed, except for P2P.\r\n\r\nThey\'ve been selling albums, CDs, cassettes, for years by requiring you to purchase inferior songs in order to purchase the songs you want. Making the sale of one thing conditional upon the sale of another thing has long been considered something close to an anti-trust violation. \r\n\r\nThe record companies have done this \"shoving of extra product for more money\" for years -- and were somewhat justified by the technology. It made sense to sell longer-playing albums (hence LPs). However, artists still had to pad a lot and you had to pay for it whether you liked it or not.\r\n\r\nNow the technology exists to easily sell one song, or any package of songs, to the consumer -- or even better, let the customer choose. But the record companies don\'t want to abandon their old technological formats because it\'s more profitable right now. \r\n\r\nTheir control of the distribution chain has squeezed the industry dry of most originality (though I\'m sure lots of great music is being made somewhere -- there always is) and they\'ve used that leverage to dominate the airwaves and turn them into marketing opportunities for their products. \r\n\r\nMy point is that the record companies have behaved badly; two wrongs don\'t make a right, but the second wrong (illegal file-sharing) sure as shit levels the playing field, which has been horribly tilted against the customer and even the artist for years. ','2003-05-06 15:24:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2485,1,3416,'172.169.111.217','ralph phelan','ralphph@aol.com','','I don\'t understand Porphyrogenitus\' pessimism about a liberal society\'s ability to resist Pomo bad philosophy. The free market is a very powerful force. There\'s just two bits of enemy dogma that we need to overcome to get out of the apparent bind\r\n\r\nFirst is the standard intellectual\'s trick of equating yanking their funding with censorship. It\'s not. You have a right to say what you want, you do not have a right to my money to pay for your doing so. The absurdity of rich Hollywood types crying \"censorship\" when they don\'t get an award is teaching this lesson very loudly and effectively. Free people have the right to withdraw support from that which they dislike.\r\n\r\nSecond is the belief that certain institutions have to be reformed, and if we can\'t reform them we\'ll lose. Not so. Nobody is indespensible, and that goes for institutions too. That\'s a lesson Bush is teaching the world right now, using the UN as his example. Those institutions that just can\'t reform themselves will learn about \"creative destruction\" the hard way.\r\n\r\nMaybe there\'s really no way for an institution like Columbia University to reform itself. But if dissatisfied customers withhold their support (i.e. students choose to go elsewhere, parents resist spending money on Pomo crap even if their kids want it, alumni start refusing to donate so long as anti-American professors are employed there - which is starting to happen) then they will have a choice: reform or die.\r\n\r\nColumbia is not Civilization. If they choose the latter, somebody else will buy their library and civilization will continue just fine.\r\n\r\nIt\'s kind of sad that the \"Bad Philosophers\" might destroy some famous old brand names (Harvard University, the New York Times, the ACLU, Amnesty International, the Democratic Party) but in the end it\'s not a big deal. \r\n.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-06 15:42:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2486,1,3254,'212.117.231.49','nevrar','nevrar@hotmail.com','','Time travel is an paradox as time is linear.\r\nBesides, if he\'s in the future, he would already be rich from his investments in the past (that he travelled back to in the past to make), Therefore, he would never need to travel into the past to make the investments. Therefore he never made any money, never got arrested in the past.\r\n\r\nAs for the comment about God, if God invented time, then time travel is irrelevant to him.','2003-05-06 16:14:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2487,1,3434,'207.168.128.138','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Hmmm. This isn\'t fully baked yet. Unknown number of Iraqis. Sensitive inteligence gathering means. If its true then it is interesting that the French would help these men at this time. Regardless of how much money changed hands prior to the war, the Iraqi leaders fleeing the middle east right now aren\'t in a position to funnel any more money to the French, and aren\'t likely to be in that position any time soon. Perhaps they would be in the position to roll over on some seedy scheme that will make the perpetrators look even worse than they do right now?','2003-05-06 16:24:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2488,1,3430,'12.23.2.98','Diana','prairie_moon@earthlink.net','','Will people stop exaggerating? The US is a police state like China is a free country. Y\'all have been screaming that the US is a police state since John Mitchell was attorney general. If that was true then John Ashcroft would have inherited a police state; he wouldn\'t be the creator of one.\r\n\r\nThis is ridiculous. The US has the most refined system of civil liberties on earth. Jeesh, keep a little perspective.','2003-05-06 16:53:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2489,1,3432,'198.63.198.100','heidi','heidi_0000@yahoo.com','','If I may - its Boba, not Bobba, and it was also his dads ship. (Jango)\r\n\r\n:)\r\n','2003-05-06 17:08:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2490,1,3428,'12.252.137.93','B. Durbin','dex_lives@yahoo.com','http://dexlives.keenspace.com','It is not illegal under the DMCA to make a copy of your CD to your hard drive. However, RIAA and the record labels are attempting to bypass this by creating copy-protection schemes that are not only badly implemented but keep your legal CD from being played or ripped on your computer. These CDs are not Redbook format, and there is a movement to get them clearly labelled as something other than a CD, since certain computers can choke on them and necessitate costly repairs. (Apple has a download to prevent this problem; if you own a Mac, go to their site before you pop in that new CD.)','2003-05-06 17:56:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2491,1,3434,'172.144.125.180','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','Dave, didn\'t you hear about Saddam\'s $1 billion bank withdrawal just before the war started?','2003-05-06 18:08:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2492,1,3434,'216.99.197.220','jeanne a e devoto','jaed@jaedworks.com','http://bittersanity.blogspot.com',' aren\'t in a position to funnel any more money to the French\r\n\r\nMaybe not (mod the above comment about Uday\'s bank withdrawal), but after all, action to frustrate the enemy\'s goals is not unusual even if you don\'t get paid for it. Pulling Iraqis out before the US can capture them would make sense here, because it would harm US interests - receiving a bribe would just be an extra.','2003-05-06 18:29:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2493,1,3435,'208.187.34.4','Jacob Proffitt','Jacob@Proffitt.com','http://www.jacob.proffitt.com/','Ever notice that when the \"two sides come together\", it\'s the conservatives that are doing the moving? In the link provided, it is conservatives \"joining\" the ACLU for example. Any mention of liberals joining, say, the Cato Institute? Both sides, liberal and conservative, claim idealogically driven activity. Yet the only politicians and organizations I ever see breaking ranks are conservative. Is it because the press only highlights conservative defections? Or is it that only conservatives are willing to sacrifice personal ambition for idealogical principles? Is Tony Blair the exception that proves the rule?\r\n\r\nFor the specific issues at hand, I\'m thrilled to see the defections as I believe the various \"Patriot\" acts are dangerous in the extreme and don\'t do a thing to achieve their stated goal--enhancing our security. They tend to enhance DoJ job/mission security and protect against criticism, though...\r\n\r\nJacob','2003-05-06 18:38:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL);
INSERT INTO `mt_comment` VALUES (2494,1,3428,'24.69.255.203','Jay Currie','jay-currie@shaw.ca','http://www.reviewing.blogspot.com','The RIAA is perfectly aware that what it is proposing is illegal. This from an article I wrote well over a year ago:\r\n\r\n\"The RIAA, the lobby group of the American Music Industry, clearly contemplates using hacking in all its forms to fight what it calls the anti-piracy battle. In the wake of September 11, the American Congress passed the USA Act aka the Patriot Act. In it, some computer hacking was effectively made a ?terrorist? offence and the scope of the privacy intrusions authorized by government in cases of suspected computer fraud or abuse was broadened. As well, civil liability for the destruction of property and programs held on hacked computers was increased.\r\n\r\nThe RIAA proposed an amendment to the USA Act which would have immunized all copyright holders from the civil law rules against hacking. \r\n\r\n\r\n\"No action may be brought under this subsection arising out of any impairment of the availability of data, a program, a system or information, resulting from measures taken by an owner of copyright in a work of authorship, or any person authorized by such owner to act on its behalf, that are intended to impede or prevent the infringement of copyright in such work by wire or electronic communication; provided that the use of the work that the owner is intending to impede or prevent is an infringing use.\" \r\n\r\n\r\nThe amendment was not passed. The RIAA believed that without this change its members attempts to break into and disable pirate websites or peer-to-peer networks would be illegal In Wired News, Mitch Glaizer, an RIAA lobbyist, is quoted as saying, \"We might try and block somebody, if we know someone is operating a server, a pirated music facility, we could try to take measures to try and prevent them from uploading or transmitting pirated documents.\" For the moment this sort of electronic self help remains illegal.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-06 19:03:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2495,1,3434,'207.168.128.138','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Thanks for the link, interesting, $650 Mil found might be part of the $900 Mil taken...makes the change in my sofa pale in comparison. You really have to watch where you leave your .9 billion more closely ,;-)','2003-05-06 19:09:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2496,1,3433,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','Regarding the NY Times report that the Bush Administration has given up trying to roll back NK nuclear weapons development and instead has tried to shift to blocking exports: Exports are impossible to block because nukes are so small. How would they detect it if North Korea tried to sell one to, say, Syria or Al Qaeda or Saudi Arabia? I do not see that as a workable strategy. I suspect it is a position that just one faction in the administration is pushing.','2003-05-06 19:10:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2497,1,3433,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','Joe, You are absolutely right about South Korea\'s position. This is all the more reason to move our troops back from the DMZ to create better options for unilateral action.','2003-05-06 19:11:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2498,1,3433,'207.168.128.138','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Does closing the barn door after the horse is out fit here? Just as we sold the WMD to Saddam years ago, it seems we sold the nuclear reactors to North Korea as well. The U.S. hasn\'t really stood for Democracy overseas, look at all the aid we\'ve given to the right dictators. What we\'ve tried to do in nationbuilding is buy our friends. Doesn\'t work for people, doesn\'t work for nations either. Eventualy when your gifts dry up they go back to hating you. And also like with people, it\'s hard to get the engagement ring back after you call the whole thing off.','2003-05-06 19:22:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2499,1,3367,'68.84.51.20','Debbie','dlwaltr@aol.com','','IT IS TIME TO RECONSTRUCT AMERICA\r\n\r\n{JK: is this a test of some sort? Comment deleted: no relevance, no value to the discussion. Warning conveyed.}','2003-05-06 19:36:11','2005-06-04 22:56:07',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2500,1,3430,'145.254.137.226','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','i am from germany and live in cologne.\r\n\r\nlet me say a few things.\r\n\r\n1. the article from the times of london was exaggeration very much and today in germany you could read that it\'s high likely that it turns out to be wrong. the diplomat himself told germany press the day after he never was talking about an \'policestate\' but wantet to warn about the restrictions in americas civil rights and liberties.\r\nand i think he his very honest about this, what you do not know is he was germans embassador in washington a couple of years and also sadi he loves america and would like to return someday.\r\n\r\n2. the same day in every newspaper you could read how germans from all parties and some none-political, too, are saying that if it turns out to be true that he talked about an \'policestate\' this is hardely to condemn and they recommend resignation.\r\n\r\nand i think there are some general things to talk about.\r\n\r\ngermany always where, and i think also in these day they are, the deepest friends of the USA in europe.\r\nevery generation in germany was even more \'american\' than the generation before - beginning with the first \'americanization\' after WWII was ended and the german \'economic miracle\' bagun.\r\nwe were listening to american music, we wore american jeans, we watched hollywood movies, and we at american burgers [even if HAMBURGERS originally came from the german city of hamburg, and a german pilgrim braught this to america. you didn\'t knew this, huh?].\r\nnone of these, nor this generation has any hatrets against america - we STILL hear american music, wear american clothes and watch american movies, and we STILL believe in democracy and freedom, and in morality and humanity in foreign policy.\r\n\r\nbut you are not all the way wrong, also if here are nearly no germans how fosters real hatred in these days there are very many germans that are confused and that are frustratet - and also ANGERED.\r\n\r\ndo you know whar rhe german chancellor, george w. bush now says about who \'never\' will become a friedn any more, said after 9/11? in these days he talked about \'infinite solidarity\', and he promised to help you and fight with you whereever he can, and whatever happens - and a BIG, BIG, MAYORITY (i think nearly EVERY german) thought the same way, and felt the same way.\r\nwe, like [in my eyes] the WHOLE WORLD were standing aside with america, we felt with you.\r\nin front of the american embassy lots and lots of flowers and candles where laid down, and people in whole germany came into the churches to pray with all americans, and especially with those that lost their lives at 9/11. even at OUR SCHOOL they planned a worship, and it tourned out that they have to make two because EVERY class wanted to participate.\r\n\r\nwhy things have changed so much? all germans gone evil in a few months?\r\ndo you really think this way?\r\nto talk about many people i know (and germany is not that big, you can read newspapers and can talk to people; you get to know what \'the country\' is feeling, so i think i can talk in the name of many germans) most of them changed their minds about the \'infinite solidarity\' in the month after 9/11, but not because they gone evil, but because of they seemed to not understand whats happening to america.\r\nthe WHOLE WORLD offered his support to you, and nearly EVERY COUNTRY (also states like SYRIA, some of your neocons now think of it may be a good party to invade) helped you in the \'war on terrorism\' - but you rejectet these most of these offers, you thought you should make this alone.\r\nwithout your old allys, without the propable new ones - and in the same breath you talked about your rejection of international agreements, like kyoto climate protocoll, like the biological warfare agreement, like the international court of justice.\r\n\r\ntwo worldwars, and centurys of european warfare have constitutet eurpean history. \'war\' in europe, and specially in germany, is not this glorious word and some thoughts about loyality and honor and \'support our troops\' - thinking of war let european think fo the dirty, the \'real\' face of war - of dead children, bombed cities, fallen soldiers, unworthy death of hundreds, thousends, somedays in european history there where millions.\r\nnone of these wars where great grand and glorious, none of them seemed to be worthy, every was cruel and brutal - THIS is german history. and thats what \'war\' means to nearly every german - you can talk to old woman and man and thes will have tears in their eyes and think back of bombed and bunrning cities where tens of thousends sayed dead, you can ask young teenies and they tell you about their fear, and what they heard about in history and from their grandmothers and -fathers.\r\n\r\ngerman citizens, and all german generations of \'peaceniks\' became moralists, they don\'t see the glorious war, and they don\'t want to.\r\nbut this does NOT mean they totally decline going to war - a majority of germans was pro kosovo war because they saw that IN THE MOMENT the war begun, and also BEFORE it begun that milosevic was murdering civilians.\r\nbut what we heard and read about your planned wars in order of your \'war on terrorism\', and, perhaps much more in order of your new \'grand design\' planned by the neocons, was not anything that convienced us about war.\r\nmany germans just where schocked - and can\'t believe waht amounts of disinformation was aired in america itself(just see agonist.org and know what i am talking about), and what the neocons in washington the same minutes where talking about.\r\nmany germans where suspicious about your resons in afghanistan, and when kissinger said \'and know to iraq\' they where convienced the reasons where not morally right, and when you snub the UNSC and presented faked or wrong \'evidences\' in the same minutes now they where convienced you are morally totaly wrong, and wantet to show you this.\r\nthe people talked about in the media, and demonstrators showed it on the streets - THIS was democracy - and then the politician understood and tryed to talk about it, even tried to find peacful solutions.\r\nbut was came back from the other side of the ocean was not what many germans had expectet - they thought of a honest discussion but what they got where snippy words from your defense minister and your presidential advisors, they came to germany and talked in our talkshow about taht \'america has to go it alone\'.\r\nyes, we where disappointet - and every day it became worse, and then we became angry - what we could read in american newspapers was not what we wished when we startet the discussion and talked honestly and democratic to a strong FRIEND of us.\r\nbut what came back where europhob, and germanophob utterances, and a mixture between \'germans are nazis\' \'shut up\' and \'we do this our way\' - this was NOT what you showed us is real democracy some 50 years ago...\r\n\r\nin the days of the iraq war, some time pre and even now i was (and i am) reading american newspaper and - what perhaps is even much more interesting - american blogs, like this one. and was i read made me still more angry. to ME it really seems, that not the germans are americophob but that many americans are europhob - i can honestly tell you i know nearly NO german citizen that feels ANY hatrets about america - yes many are angry and dissapointed and also try to go the european way in these days but the NEVER would think of renaming any food, or reject their american lifestyle, and i can tell that every german i know taht critizized america did it REALLY HONEST, and talked from \'friend to friend\', and didn\'t meant this any kind of anti-american.\r\n\r\nso what really made me angry in these days was reading wrong and false news about whatever any german did, or that the germans where collaborating with the saddam (let me say this is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE!!!) - and what some americans commented on. and sometime i also get sad because i see a great friendship breaking apart only in month\', and can\'t tell myself whatever we did wrong when we rejectet to wage a war that seemed imorallic to many germans, who still couldnt forget kyoto and the biological warfare agreement and your neocons that where talking about the \'great design\' that america has to do \'alone\'.\r\nand i think if you continue - then there is no other possibility left for you than doing it \'alone\', because nobody left in the \'grand sandpit\' who wants to play with the \'big brother\'.\r\n\r\nsome last words:\r\n\r\nare you aware that you are slighting many germans by saying things like this:\r\n\r\n\" Some of the German people are our friends, not the majority. That is why Gerhardt the Frog wanna be is in charge in Germany.\"[ - when you are talking about bringing your troops out of germany, you are aware that YOU brake the strong friendships many of your soldiers have here in germany, and that OUR GOVERNMENT is fighting for those troops to stay?]\r\n\r\n\"Germany is the place with all those laws against free speech\" [let me tell this is absolute idiocy - what do you wanne tell us by saying such nonsense??]\r\n\r\n\"It\'s a manifestation of the deeper anti-Americanism within Germany\"\r\n\r\n\r\ni would like to see i any of YOU now can explain to me why in these days america seems to me full of hatrets against germany and france, and full of wrong nightmare-stories, and full of slighting against our countries.\r\n\r\nps: sorry because of my not very good english, but i think you can read it :)\r\n\r\n','2003-05-06 20:12:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2501,1,3433,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Unsurprisingly, South Korea is dragging its feet on troop relocation; they prefer to have the hostages American Army firmly in place within Seoul. Our best indication that blovkades or more serious actions are in the offing is If the USA pushes this issue or takes unilateral action.\r\n\r\nRandall: \"This is all the more reason to move our troops back from the DMZ to create better options for unilateral action.\"','2003-05-06 20:17:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2502,1,3430,'216.194.194.226','Thomas Nephew','thomasn528@prodigy.net','http://pages.prodigy.net/thomasn528/blog/newsrackblog.html','I agree with Joe on this. Chrobog has a point about the US, regardless of whether he ignores similar points about Germany. He\'s definitely not who I\'d want to hear it from, but that doesn\'t make his charge less troubling. (Also note Maxim\'s comment that he may not have used the phrase \"police state\", although I couldn\'t find evidence one way or the other in the German online media.)\r\n\r\nDiana writes that the \"US has the most refined system of civil liberties.\" I\'d like to not have to revise that to \"had\". It\'s not the level of the system, it\'s the direction things are headed that is worrisome. Those liberties didn\'t get that way by saying \"oh, well\" every time an Attorney General came along and wanted to rewrite the rules. \r\n\r\nUS civil liberties have been eroded by Patriot Act I and threaten to be by II. The Patriot Act should remain a time-limited act, and should be shored up with increased Congressional oversight. II shouldn\'t be passed at all in its present form. Especially if Administration officials feel that Al Qaeda\'s losses have been *\"catastrophic\"*.','2003-05-06 21:06:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2503,1,3433,'67.75.31.119','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','Sounds like it\'s time to just pull our troops out of S. Korea, with the comment: Don\'t call us, we\'ll call you if it\'s in our own best interest! Nice knowing you. \r\n','2003-05-06 21:14:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2504,1,3433,'205.158.210.19','Mark Buehner','cripplerxface@hotmail.com','','The blockade is not ment to stop nuclear smuggling, per se. Sure it may keep NK from loading a full missile onto a barge, which is a small blessing, but it certainly cant stop a thermas full of plutonium. The blockade is ment to choke off NKs normal trade, especially its narcotics. Its a nervy plan but just floating it puts pressure on NK. What we should do is go back to the Security Council and give them a chance to redeem themselves by condemning NK and imposing a total blockade. Either the SC will take the opportunity to try to spit back at the US (and put the final nail in their coffin) or it will manage to present something of a united front to Kim Il Jung. A multilateral embargo enforced by the US would starve NK literally to death. Il Jung will either be forced to make a deal, allow his nation to whither away, or go to war with the whole world. He might take door #3, but if thats the case we would have had to fight such a suicidal madman eventually and better to do it with an international cloak if possible.','2003-05-06 21:21:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2505,1,3436,'152.163.190.1','Celeste','celeste@windsofchange.net','http://permagringirl.blogspot.com','The Poor Man makes good comments on James\' sloppy piece. I had a few more to say here: \"Good For He but Not for Thee as well.','2003-05-06 21:36:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2506,1,3433,'207.168.128.138','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Mark, I agree with your thinking there about letting the UN SC redeem themselves, but do we want to give them the chance to put the last nail in the coffin? (spitting back at the US) They have certainly acted like spoiled children lately. I don\'t think we want them to do something we all may regret later. If we do have to put down Kim, it would be nice if, as suggested by someone else, China and Japan acted with that international cloak this time around.','2003-05-06 22:53:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2507,1,3437,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Good catch on a very real issue, one that acts to strip democracy of its substance in ways the campaign finance bagmen can only dream of.','2003-05-06 22:53:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2508,1,3433,'68.161.137.69','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','\"Just as we sold the WMD to Saddam years ago, it seems we sold the nuclear reactors to North Korea as well.\"\r\n\r\nWe didn\'t sell Saddam WMDs - where do you get that from? France sold him a nuclear reactor, not us.','2003-05-07 00:08:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2509,1,3434,'64.172.25.57','crionna','crionna65@yahoo.com','','If it is true that these \"officials\" have made deals they made with the French, one might wonder how long they\'ll live to enjoy their freedom. The French may be getting them out to do them in....','2003-05-07 01:13:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2510,1,3437,'64.173.25.160','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','I too live in California and am, as I have been all my life, disenfranchised by living in a gerrymandered district. I have a minority opinion in the district where I live. Nonetheless, I don\'t see why this is \"a bad, bad thing\" except that it means a lot of my neighbors are dumb donkeys. The process may not be as exciting as you would like, but I am not sure the results are undemocratic, unrepresentative or unfair. \r\n\r\nThat the bodies of the legislature did not work out as the founders had anticipated is not the only unintended consequence of the convention. I don\'t suppose you would favor returning election of senators to the state legislatures to redress this situation?','2003-05-07 01:25:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2511,1,3434,'64.173.25.160','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','Did you mean \"have always been\" instead of \"have gone\"?','2003-05-07 01:35:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2512,1,3433,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','The South Koreans want us to help defend them and yet they are not willing to do anything to help defend us. \r\n\r\nThis demonstrates how the threat of nuclear terrorism causes the divergence of interests of countries who were natural allies in wars carried out solely as state-to-state conflicts. \r\n\r\n','2003-05-07 05:48:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2513,1,3440,'12.254.192.32','Jacob Proffitt','Jacob@Proffitt.com','http://www.jacob.proffitt.com','The problem with Graham\'s comments is that while they are well-informed by the physical reality of the terrorist situation, they ignore entirely the political reality of the United States. The fact of the matter is that there is literally no way that President Bush could have taken effective action against Hezbollah in Syria. Iraq was next for the simple reason that it was the next highest target we could take on after Afghanistan. Not because Syria is tougher than Iraq but because Bush could gather enough support to actually legally take action in Iraq and could not have against Hezbollah in Syria. Imagine if he had tried. Graham is essentially saying that Bush should have abandoned a policy that has proven wildly successful for one clearly Quixotic.\r\n\r\nIn addition, Graham\'s arguments have proven empty with regards to diverting resources away from al Qaeda and Afghanistan. Afghanistan is in a maintenance phase and doesn\'t need the forces that had been there initially and has not suffered because our troops are also in Iraq. And al Qaeda is a different fight entirely and uses different resources and infrastructure as a result of our action in Afghanistan.\r\n\r\nWhich isn\'t to say that Graham doesn\'t represent the best unified theory for Democratic Opposition to Bush. I\'m just pointing out that his arguments are vulnerable in the one sphere where they will be taken seriously--in analytical and critical circles.\r\n\r\nJacob Proffitt','2003-05-07 08:04:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2514,1,3438,'216.175.89.217','Peter Adler','adlerpe@hotmail.com','','The Germans haven\'t called their air force the Luftwaffe (literally, Air Force) since the end of WWII, for obvious reasons (it tended to upset the Americans and the other Europeans, whose civility the West German government desperately needed). The air arm of the West German (and now-unified German) armed forces is the Bundesluft (literally, Federal Air [Arm]).','2003-05-07 09:15:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2515,1,2274,'216.148.246.134','Omar Khayyam','khayyam2001@yahoo.ca','','It is well-known that Bernard Lewis is a Zionist and that Edward Said is an advocate of the basic rights of Palestinians. Lewis is the spokesman of the strong Iraelis, Said the defender of the weak Palestinians. \r\n\r\nIbn Warraq missed the point in this case, because Edaward Said was not defending Islam as a religion, he is not a Muslim, but cricising the colonial point of view of the orientalists.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-07 09:15:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2516,1,3430,'150.69.89.131','Robert Long','long@dhs.kyutech.ac.jp','','It\'s funny how Joe Katzman can twist common threads into absurdies; he must have learned from Rush Limbaugh or the other assorted right-wing cable TV thugs that now dominate the \"news.\" No, Joe, if you read Revelations seriously, though you might not be a Christian, the AntiChrist (Bush) will rule the world with 10 nations. Read today in the Japan news about this 10 nation peace-keeper force. Conservatives tend to be optimists, but fascism is NOT an exclusive German or Japanese problem. It is not in their DNA!!!!! Both countries had VERY highly civilized cultures (more than I can say about he US, and I am American--a country that copies food and ideas and makes them WORSE), but look what happened when a fanatic pushed the fear and nationalism button. Repeatedly! Now, we have the fear, nationalism, and terror button thrown in with the \"religous\" button--how we have to kill those muslims that disagree with us! Gosh, it makes me so sick. Maxim is very right--but I see young Americans as indoctrinated as the Germans were in the 1930s. The point is: people are people. Americans are not immuned from fascisim! In fact, I find them far more gullible than Europeans. You can make jokes, Joe, but frankly, you are the one who will suffer. Diana, likewise, says that Germany is a place with laws against free speech, but I read recently about a person in Florida being sued because he protested against a developer\'s projects. I likewise was threatened when I tried to put up a green zone around a state park and river. \r\nFree speech is only for the rich! Democracy is a JOKE in the US. Notice the nice zones in each city? All of the prisons, garbage dumps, and electrical power plants, incinerators, etc, etc, are in zone D--where the poor live. IN EVERY CITY!!!!! Yep. And I love how blacks are routinely denied jury trials in the US. And, Germany does NOT have laws which allow for unlimited detention and jail time WITHOUT trail, a law that was passed without a majority of senators and congressmen even READING IT! And to think that this has all come about with a \'president\' who wasn\'t even elected, but appointed! Yes, and I love the free speech of the individual who was arrested in a new york shopping mall because he wore a T-short that stated \"give peace a chance.\" You have to embrace the people who protest because if you don\'t, you won\'t have the RIGHT too. If you want to read more (though people like Joe won\'t) because they LOVE their closed mindsets---they have all the answers, and have read all of the books---even though they are probably only 22 years old, you can read the variety of websites that show the deception. Most right-wing \"Christians\" that Bush loves (Falwell, Graham, Tim Lahaye, Paul Crouch, Bill Bright, Robert Schuller, Pat Robertson, James Kennedy, Ralph Reed, Gary Bauer all have links to Reverend Moon and (and take money from) the Moonie Church. And these all influence Bush. It\'s actually quite interesting to delve deep into this nonsense, if you just want to be a mouthpiece for Bush, state this on your homepage. Call this \"Minion City\" or whatever. Try thought for once!\r\n\r\nRobert Long\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-07 10:07:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2517,1,3440,'150.69.89.131','Robert Long','long@dhs.kyutech.ac.jp','','Geez, Joe, it looks like you just don\'t want serious and thoughtful analysis to problems. Need that \"shock and awe\" don\'t you? How old are you? Seriously! Yes, as a Floridian I am somewhat proud of his achievements, which could have been better if Republicans like yourself weren\'t throwin up road block after road block to every single solid progressive reform! Notice how you have a link (pretty much copy and paste here--but I just chalk this up to your poor schooling) to the Washington Post. A Moonie pubication!!! Are you a moonie Joe? Why do you keep on citing Moonie literature, and treating it like gospel material. Get a brain, Joe, please. Sift things out, and think! It\'s hard, I know, with the American education system as it is--one reason that I now teach university students here in Japan. But, to deride a candidate because he is mild-manner just goes to how you that people don\'t want that: they want violence, they want \"shock and awe\" and they want their goddman \'Presidents\" landing on battle ships. Soooooo cool!\r\nAmerica is doomed with people like you! ','2003-05-07 10:17:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2518,1,3441,'81.5.146.53','Perry de Havilland','pdeh@NOSPAMsamizdata.net','http://samizdata.net/blog','Another example of \'bipolar disorder\'. There is far more to the world that \'liberal\' and \'conservative\'... and don\'t get me started on the issue that there is nothing \'liberal\' about the people in the USA who use that word.','2003-05-07 11:56:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2519,1,2991,'202.147.100.14','a','123@jhotmail.com','http://a','a','2003-05-07 12:54:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2520,1,3441,'67.75.31.4','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','Liberals, as currently running around, tend to want to hurt Conservatives by their building, with deliberately integrated actions designed to inflict damage to their opponents. They relish harming others on their way to a goal. \r\n','2003-05-07 13:10:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2521,1,3440,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','...Ad so, Robert goes way off the deep end. I think the publication he means is the Washington TIMES. Thanks for playing, Robert.\r\n\r\nThe history of the Washington Post is interesting as it relates to Bob Graham in particular, but it covers that in the article.','2003-05-07 13:39:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2522,1,3438,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Thanks for the tip. Will send the correction on to the source, who uses the term in their article.','2003-05-07 13:42:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2523,1,3440,'216.76.27.35','Mike Plaiss','Mike_Plaiss@kyfbins.com','','Good post Joe, and there is no question that people should be paying attention to Graham, especially on homeland security. However, there is a glaring error in his thought process that needs to be addressed. According to Graham:\r\n\r\nThere are many people with the ability and desire to kill Americans, so we\'d better kill them first. \"We\'ve taken the pressure off al Qaeda,\" he complains. \"We haven\'t done anything about Hezbollah. We need to take the fight to the terrorists.\"\r\n\r\nWhen he says we haven’t done anything about Hezbollah he is simply dead wrong. In fact, we may have struck a more effective blow against Hezbollah than we could have via a direct conflict with them.\r\n\r\nIt is a theme you have heard before. I know because you posted my thoughts on it. Our foreign policy does not take place in a vacuum. Our actions have far reaching consequences. Because of our actions in Afghanistan and Iraq the game has changed dramatically in the Middle East.\r\n\r\nBashir Assad now knows one thing crystal clear. If the next 9/11 is engineered by Hezbollah he has a life expectancy of around three months. Dictators really like staying in power and they like staying alive even better. We need to use this fact to our advantage.\r\n\r\nThere has been a paradigm shift in the Middle East, but like all such shifts they meet resistance and take a little time to fully take hold. When Ossama bin Laden told the Taliban leaders the U.S. was a paper tiger, and wouldn’t fight on the ground and take casualties, they wanted to believe him and they did.\r\n\r\nWhen Saddam’s yes-men told him the U.S. would never launch a pre-emptive attack and that he could drag out the inspections/diplomacy/UN game indefinitely he wanted to believe them and he did.\r\n\r\nThe Taliban and the Iraqi army fell quickly and best of all the U.S. made it look easy. As that reality sinks in, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, and the rest of the bastards are diminished. Why? Because they exist largely at the mercy of the dictators in whose countries they hide.\r\n\r\nThe U.S. can’t be in all places at once so we must create a world in which the dictators of the Middle East have a real interest in controlling their own radical elements. Three years ago they had virtually no incentive to do so – now they do. When we target the states that support terrorism (and Iraq did) we ARE “taking the fight to the terrorists.”\r\n\r\nI could go on and on about this but I have already taken up enough of your comments section.\r\n','2003-05-07 14:29:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2524,1,3440,'164.82.144.3','JAB','johnbeckwith@yahoo.com','','Graham may well be providing a useful service by reminding people of the threat. It is human nature to become complacent and the cost of complacency has never been higher.\r\n\r\nHowever, in performing this useful service he demonstrates why he should never be elected to national office. The tortured logic of his position on Iraq (basically, opposed military action against a low priority target compared to Hezbollah or Iran as it would provoke retaliation) demonstrates he is not capable of thinking strategically, only tactically. \r\n\r\nFor example, Iraq happens to border three countries he names as greater threats: Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia. Conquering it dramatically increases our strategic options with respect to these countries even if it is not the #1 threat (that itself is debatable). Graham never acknowledges this geostrategic argument. He understands tactical issues, like port security, better than anyone in the Senate. Maybe he should be director of Homeland Security someday but a President must think strategically as well as tactically.','2003-05-07 14:34:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2525,1,3437,'24.243.130.171','Richard Carr','richard@rmcarr.com','','I suspect that the system has its own built in corrective mechanism. One of the consequences of gerrymandered districts is elected politicians who are trying to energize their base. Today that often requires staking out inflexible positions on the judiciary. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of those positions, it is tending towards a situation of gridlock in the nomination process for new judges. It is collectively the judicial bench that has permitted gerrymandering to continue, they are also the only people capable of restoring order to the districting process. A judicial ruling that required districts to be drawn such that the sum of all the boundary lengths was the lowest would ensure that boundaries would adapt to population migration while allowing those populations who have shared interests, such as cities and towns, to choose a representative for the region. The fifty or so cities in America with populations greater than 1 million might end up splitting down the middle, but that would still be an improvement over the current situation.\r\n\r\nMy feeling is that if the judiciary starts to get concerned with the breakdown in the “advise and consent” role of the Senate, they may first threaten to take action on gerrymandering, and eventually take action if no progress is made.\r\nWhere this idea is weakest is that the Senate is unaffected by gerrymandering, but has still collapsed into gridlock on senate judicial confirmations. As senators, however, they are leadership figures within their parties, and so need to build alliances with federal and state representatives who are affected by gerrymandering. They also benefit from a motivated base as a fund raising device. Here in Texas, Phil Gramm played a significant role in the gerrymandering of the Texas districts, as Trent will be able to confirm.\r\n','2003-05-07 15:21:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2526,1,3441,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','MommaBear... see my further thoughts now that I\'ve slept on the question. Michael Totten is a liberal. So is Armed Liberal here. So are others I could name. JDAMs, please, not mass firebombing.','2003-05-07 15:28:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2527,1,3434,'129.240.190.13','Kjetil Kjernsmo','kk@kjernsmo.net','','You know, I follow this blog with great interest, but really, when I read things like \"French have gone flat evil.\" then, I just get scared. Whenever you think that there is something \"falt evil\" it is just because you haven\'t tried to understand, and you have fallen victim of misinformation.','2003-05-07 15:28:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2528,1,3441,'204.252.232.3','roux','rouxdsla@yahoo.com','','Liberals believe in symbolism over substance. That\'s why they wanted the UN to handle things in Iraq. Continued inspections and what we now know was a fraudulent oil-for-food program. Both symbolic.\r\n\r\nConservatives believe in action. That\'s why we support stopping Sadaam with force.\r\n\r\nIf there was a rapist in the neighborhood liberals would want to make a tougher law against rape, while conservatives would want to catch him and put him away.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-07 16:07:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2529,1,3434,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Kjetil, this is an important difference between attitudes in America and Europe, and it would serve you well to understand it better.\r\n\r\nExamine that comment for a minute: \"Whenever you think that there is something \"falt evil\" it is just because you haven\'t tried to understand, and you have fallen victim of misinformation\"\r\n\r\nIf I take that at face value, you\'re saying evil doesn\'t exist. That\'s a position I understand, but can\'t accept because it doesn\'t match reality. There is no amount of \"understanding\" that will excuse a regime that slowly feeds people into plastic shredders feet first so it can watch their facial expressions. Or regimes that murder millions of their countrymen. Or the genocidal violence in places like Rwanda, where whole families are hacked to death with machetes.\r\n\r\nTo believe evil does not exist, in the wake of the 20th century no less, is to either be living in deep denial or to possess a very crippled sense of humanity befitting \"Nietzsche\'s last man.\" But that may not be exactly what you meant. Is it?\r\n\r\nNow, a debate about whether the French and their \"reverse Raoul Wallenberg\" approach are \"flat evil\" is worthwhile and stimulating. We had that here on Winds of Change.NET a while ago, with members lining up for and against. \r\n\r\nIf that\'s what you\'re here to discuss, by all means fire away. And thanks for reading.','2003-05-07 16:20:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2530,1,3441,'172.160.141.250','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','Liberals wanted the UN involved (SC permission) so as to give the invasion a certain degree of international legitimacy because on the surface it does look like an unprovoked attack by a massive power on a weak power. I sometimes believe that liberals almost pathologically associate with the weaker foe in some mistaken belief that the \"little guy\" is honorable. In reality, the weaker power could be a budding homocidal maniac. \r\n\r\nYour assertion that \"conservatives believe in action\" is nonsense. I seem to remember quite a few conservatives opposing Clinton in Kosovo.\r\n\r\n\"If there was a rapist in the neighborhood liberals would want to make a tougher law against rape, while conservatives would want to catch him and put him away.\"\r\nI\'m a liberal. But I\'d prefer hitting the rapist with a bat, then sticking him in jail. Please don\'t generalize about people you don\'t know.','2003-05-07 16:30:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2531,1,3437,'198.26.126.12','Andrew Olmsted','andrewolmsted@andrewolmsted.com','http://www.andrewolmsted.com','This is just as serious a problem as AL says it is, (and as I\'ve noted in the past), because it is destructive of democracy. Democracy works best when it has an engaged citizen base on which to build. Gerrymandering erodes that base by making votes count for less, or even making them meaningless. In a gerrymandered district, there is no point in voting for Congress, because the election is already predetermined. This damages the process by reducing the incentive for voters to become involved in the process, as well as allowing extremists to dominate the process as AL and others have noted. The result is gridlock, partisan name-calling in lieu of governing, and an increasingly dysfunctional government.','2003-05-07 17:10:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2532,1,3441,'172.160.141.250','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','I also take issue with the idea that liberals are builders and conservatives are defenders. In the civil liberties arena, I see liberals as being both builders and defenders (against encroachments by big business and the government). Yes, there are definitely some voices on the Right opposing the Patriot Act, etc. but what I more often see is figures like Santorum who opposes the separation of Church and State, the right to privacy, the right to bugger another man. The most vocal opposition to the Patriot Act seems, from what I\'ve seen, to have originated on the left. Conservatives all too often seem to take the side of big business (and the wealthy) even if it means restricting civil liberties (or pushing policies/tax cuts that hurt the poor). I\'ve always found it odd that the ACLU has such a liberal reputation. In reality, every American should be a card-carrying member of the ACLU. ','2003-05-07 17:31:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2533,1,3441,'64.73.73.18','SparcVark','lanzknecht@hotmail.com','',' Mr. Totten makes some good points, and some weak ones. His explanation of the left\'s focus on Israel in the Middle East is weak. While it\'s true that protests are unlikely to move the vile government of the Sudan to change, the United States and United Nations certainly have some degree of authority that can be brought to bear against the Sudan. I see few, if any, leftists working for this. Why then Israel?\r\n\r\n I think he\'s missed the huge streak of anti-Americanism running through the modern left like a cancer, that prevents them from seeing evil beyond their own borders, or those of close US allies like Israel. Reflexive, and sometimes unconcious, anti-Americanism is the 800-pound gorilla in the middle of the left\'s parlor, and it must be addressed and dealt with before left-right relations can return to a position of mutual trust and respect.','2003-05-07 17:35:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2534,1,3442,'207.168.131.82','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Iranians and Americans can go two different ways here. Some of us (I\'m an American) will put the past in it\'s proper perspective and move on. We will become friends, we will have self and mutual respect, retain our autonomy and identity and things will get better. Others will point at the past as a red herring. They have always been filled with hate and spoiling for a fight. The past gives them their excuse. There may be some \"undecided\" folks, scared perhaps to trust that good can come from someplace that has been branded evil.(The Great Satan VS Axis of Evil) Those of us who can get along need to set an example for these nervous souls. Ever forward people.\r\nDave','2003-05-07 17:40:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2535,1,3441,'171.161.160.10','Jeff Medcalf','medcalf@caerdroia.org','http://www.caerdroia.org/blog','One thing I noticed about Michael Totten\'s article (which was, by the way, really excellent), is how he introduces his point. It exposes a difference between individualists on the left and individualists on the right.\r\n\r\nThose on the right tend to start out an idea that they know will be controversial to others on the right with something like: Chew on this: [insert point]\r\n\r\nThose on the left tend to start out an idea that they know will be controversial to others on the left with something like: I am a leftist. Here are my credentials: [insert credentials]. I\'m going to make a point that will shock you, but hear me out because I too am on the left: [insert point]. I am a leftist, too. Really!\r\n\r\nI wonder why this is? Certainly the levels of intolerance for dissent can\'t be that much different on the right and on the left?\r\n','2003-05-07 18:27:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2536,1,3445,'207.168.131.82','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','What a wonderful surprise! Thanks for the news.','2003-05-07 18:44:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2537,1,3441,'65.202.39.198','Timmy the Wonder Dog','nimrodusa@hotmail.com','','an interesting observation, i tend to view conservatives as pragmatic and liberals as romantic. i love history and look at it as a building block for the future and understand that liberals look at the here and now and dream of what could be.\r\n\r\nmy problem is that a lot of liberals (neo-conservatives) and have become conservatives, whereas alot of liberals of have become apologists for thugs. i believe i understand the neo-conservative movement (which has added depth and breadth to conservative thought as well as limiting the neo-isolationist) but i struggle with the liberal movement to the left (started in the 20s and 30s).\r\n\r\nsomeone please tell me how one can support the rights of the individual but then not support educational vouchers.','2003-05-07 18:56:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2538,1,3436,'151.203.217.21','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','Whaat? You\'re not an American?','2003-05-07 19:00:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2539,1,3430,'151.203.217.21','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','Thank you Maxim for you comment. I believe that your sentiment is close to the majority feeling in Germany. \r\n\r\nAs far as Schroeder\'s election being a sign of anti-Americanism, nonsense. The USA is not the only issue in the world. Maybe it had something to do with Kohl\'s long tenure and his scandals.\r\n\r\nElectorates get sick of one party after a too-long tenure, as parties\' ideas become stale.\r\n\r\nRemember the Schmidt gov\'t? It was SPD. Schmidt never received the accolates he deserved for his backbone in the Cold War.\r\n\r\nAs far as the war goes, the Germans did assist in many ways, force protection, transportation, etc. ','2003-05-07 19:11:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2540,1,3441,'151.203.217.21','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','I agree with Perry. As for most of the other comments (Timmy excluded), I see the dittoheads are out.\r\n\r\nThe terms \"liberal\" or \"conservative\" are meaningless, only useful for caricature and polemics. \r\n\r\nWhat are \"conservatives\" trying to conserve? Cultural or economic freedom? The environment? \r\n\r\nAre \"liberals\" always in favor of giving economic and cultural freedom?\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n ','2003-05-07 19:22:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2541,1,3445,'67.75.31.4','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','The Agonist was in no way the earliest at all! \r\n','2003-05-07 19:25:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2542,1,3441,'64.73.73.18','SparcVark','lanzknecht@hotmail.com','',' Well, Klaatu, I always thought that \"liberal\" and \"conservative\" referred to interpretations of the constitution, but that\'s just me speaking.\r\n\r\n Left-right is a simplification, but it\'s an awfully handy one.','2003-05-07 19:47:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2543,1,3436,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','No, sir. Canadian, eh!','2003-05-07 20:37:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2544,1,3445,'67.75.31.4','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','Like you, don\'t think he counts, as he had received a \'heads-up\' from Diane! ','2003-05-07 20:45:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2545,1,3446,'216.99.197.236','jeanne a e devoto','jaed@jaedworks.com','http://bittersanity.blogspot.com','Liberals are builders and conservatives are defenders. Liberals want to build a good and just society. Conservatives defend what is already built and established.\r\n\r\nRandom, unorganized thought: this isn\'t describing the difference between conservatives and liberals; it\'s describing the difference between conservatives and radicals. Preserving the basics versus making root-level changes.\r\n\r\nOne of the problems with the word \"conservative\" as it\'s generally used in modern politics is that it retains some of this connotation of \"preserving\", along with specific policy positions that can be fairly radical. And one of the problems with the adoption of \"liberal\" as the opposite of \"conservative\" is that \"liberal\" has picked up the connotation of radicalism. This leads to complete linguistic disconnects.\r\n\r\nPeople who favor absolute freedom of trade - just as one example - would be labeled \"conservative\", but their position is in fact a radical one. \"Radical conservative\" is not at all self-contradictory, although if you take the \"defender of the status quo\" definition of \"conservative\" seriously you might think so. The \"let\'s remake the Middle East into a prosperous democratic paradise (before they kill us all)\" approach is generally identified as conservative in modern political parlance... but it\'s a quite radical approach.\r\n\r\nSimilarly, as an example, people who favored retaining the traditional welfare program were labeled \"liberal\", but their position was a very conservative one (in the sense of \"preserving\", \"resisting change\"). The anti-war position generally identified as \"liberal\" gets a lot of its oomph from the idea that rocking the boat is dangerous, big changes are to be avoided... which is likewise a very conservative way of approaching a problem.\r\n\r\nThe distinction between \"left\" and \"liberal\" that some people make is, I think, an attempt to differentiate between \"conservatives\" and \"radicals\" on that side of the policy spectrum - those who emphasize preservation and gradualism versus those willing to consider root-level change. But there\'s no similar distinction between \"conservative\" and \"right\".','2003-05-07 20:48:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2546,1,3446,'64.73.73.18','SparcVark','lanzknecht@hotmail.com','',' A good point, AL, but I wonder if the search for the \"correct\" viewpoint which is superior to all other viewpoint is an error in itself. I\'m not accusing you of doing this, but I see that a lot of the left/right debate is framed in terms of people seeking to prove that their point of view is morally superior to the opposing point of view.\r\n\r\n I think that the best solution is in an ongoing conversation between a variety of principled viewpoints. A John Stuart Mill quote that\'s stuck with me:\r\n\r\n\r\n \"In politics, again, it is almost a commonplace, that a party of order or stability, and a party of progress or reform, are both necessary elements of a healthy state of political life; until the one or the other shall have so enlarged its mental grasp as to be a party equally of order and of progress, knowing and distinguishing what is fit to be preserved from what ought to be swept away. Each of these modes of thinking derives its utility from the deficiencies of the other; but it is in a great measure the opposition of the other that keeps each within the limits of reason and sanity.\"\r\n\r\n\r\n Although I\'m no leftist, and my own inclination is more towards order rather than progress, it\'s in my own best interest, and that of every modern \"conservative\", that the liberal viewpoint, whether classic or modern \"progressive\", stay strong and well-argued, since this will ensure the health of our own philosophy and help guarantee that good ideas are not overlooked simply because they do not fit with our way of thinking.','2003-05-07 20:50:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2547,1,3441,'144.9.158.97','Jonathan','JIsernhage@aol.com','','SparcVark:\r\n\r\nKlaatu has a point: I agree that \"liberal\" and \"conservative\" can be handy simplifications, but I believe they also lead to disagreements over differences which don\'t exist. \r\n\r\nWhenever I discuss a political topic with someone, I really want to know whether that person believes in individual accountability.\r\n\r\n1) If not, we just won\'t ever agree. This group seems to me to spend lots of time trying to justify divorcing actions from their natural consequences. I will probably never believe that Americans should pay for universal health care when the top six causes of death in the US are lifestyle-elective. It\'s pointless for me to argue with people who don\'t believe in the economic principle of internalizing externalities.\r\n\r\n2) If so, then any disagreements we have generally revolve around whether or not the American form of democratic capitalism approximates a meritocracy, and what adjustments are needed to get it there. A surprising number of \"liberals\" seem to agree in principle with a system that rewards the diligent and spanks the lazy, but they don\'t think our system does this fairly enough. And this can be a fair criticism. \r\n\r\nBut if I immediately generalize an unflattering characteristic to all liberals (I\'m not saying you have, but labels in general lend themselves to this), I lose my chance to reason with the ones who can be reasoned with, and finding common ground.','2003-05-07 20:54:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2548,1,3441,'151.203.217.21','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','No, SpacVark, as a lawyer I can tell you that \"liberal\' and \"conservative\" are useless even as terms of constitutional interpretation.\r\n\r\nThere are \"conservative\" judicial activists, and \"liberal\" strict constructionists, and there are many who switch back and forth as it suits them. ','2003-05-07 21:10:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2549,1,3436,'151.203.217.21','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','O.K., Joe, close enough for me, despite what the nuts are saying.','2003-05-07 21:12:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2550,1,3438,'217.185.237.26','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','sorry, but this is absolute nonsense.\r\n\r\nit\'s FOR SURE, the german air force is named \'luftwaffe\', and never in historie it was called \'bundesluft\' [wich sounds very funny to me]\r\n\r\ni can\'t imagine why somebody woul think somethink like this, but it\'s wrong.\r\nso german air force is called LUFTWAFFE, and their webpage is http://www.luftwaffe.de\r\n\r\nso, please send a new \'correction\' to the source...\r\n\r\n','2003-05-07 21:19:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2551,1,3438,'65.128.20.186','Bob','questmuzz9@aol.com','','Haha, yeah, I\'ve never known it as anything other than the Luftwaffe.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/ge-af.htm','2003-05-07 21:23:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2552,1,3438,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','\"Luftwaffe\" does appear to be the official name. In Peter\'s defense, \"Bundesluft\" does turn up Google hits.','2003-05-07 21:33:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2553,1,3428,'151.199.52.130','Froggi','orisfrog@bu.edu','http://rebeccafrog.blogspot.com','Actually, the DMCA does prohibit any and all copying of the materials it protects. (I don\'t recall the scope of the law, sorry.) The Copyright Act has a whole section devoted to \"fair use.\" The DMCA does not. This means there is no fair use under the DMCA, and as far as I know, the Supreme Court has not created a fair use clause. If someone knows otherwise, and can provide me with a citation, I would greatly appreciate being corrected. :)','2003-05-07 21:40:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2554,1,3433,'144.92.164.197','Mike','ctblog@yahoo.com','http://criticalthought.blogspot.com','Call me nuts, but moving troops out of the DMZ is exactly what one might expect before a series of air strikes. That is, there\'s no reason to put our troops in immediate harms way.\r\n\r\nEspecially since we\'d expect a strike on N. Korea\'s nuclear facilities to have military repercussions. I\'m pretty certain that any military planners in N. Korea have thought about this situation already.\r\n\r\nI wouldn\'t bet that the Bush administration has necessarily thought this through.\r\n\r\n---\r\n\r\nI\'d also like to point out that US\' involvement in Korea (and Europe, etc) have made the militaries of the countries we NEED to defend impotent. They haven\'t had to stand on their own before, why would we/they expect any different? Classic freeloader problem, not to be confused with free-rider.\r\n\r\n---\r\nYehudit -\r\nGo read \"Saddam\'s Bombmaker.\" We sure as heck didn\'t do anything to stop it, nor did we have any real qualms about funding chem/bio weapons. More to the point, we all but gave them the documents to the Manhattan project, among other things, for free.','2003-05-07 21:45:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2555,1,3446,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Sparc-\r\n\r\n*DING* *DING* *DING*\r\n\r\nBy George, I think you\'ve got it. You say: \"wonder if the search for the \"correct\" viewpoint which is superior to all other viewpoint is an error in itself.\"\r\n\r\nYou\'re absolutely right.\r\n\r\nThe grand visions of Le Corbusier made great models and looked good on paper, but they weren\'t liveable.\r\n\r\nNeither are the unplanned favelas surrounding Rio.\r\n\r\nThe messy, fine-grained, imperfectly planned cities that manage to combine grand vision with incompleteness are the ones that we like.\r\n\r\nMore later.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-07 21:53:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2556,1,3419,'130.76.96.19','D. Lee','dwbplee@earthlink.net','','What I detect throughout much of this thread is a blurring of personal feelings/perceptions about individuals (whether they be French, German, American, or whatever), versus what constitutes a coherent foreign policy and defense posture for the US or Europe. People can\'t decide if they personally hate Chirac, selected Frenchmen, all French, or just the policies of the French government. Americans, on the whole, have taken this a lot more personally than Europeans probably expected.\r\n\r\nI have friends throughout Europe and none of the events of the past 18 months has had any real effect on those friendships. I understand their concerns about the US throwing its weight around a bit recklessly, they understand my frustration about Euros giving us the middle finger after all the sacrifices we have made in protecting their freedoms. We leave it at that.\r\n\r\nHowever, as a coherent foreign policy for the US, it makes no sense to have unreliable allies, or to locate troops where they cannot be effectively brought to bear against the most likely threats. The \"facts on the ground\" are that Germany and France, as official policy, actively atempted to thwart us in a legitimate and morally admirable cause, and gave assistance to an adversary. Furthermore, this is part of a broad, ongoing pattern of behavior, and appears to reflect popular opinion in those countries. I think most Americans take the view of \"do your arguing inside the house, not out on the street\". France and Germany took it to the street.\r\n\r\nIf France and Germany believe that their foreign policy, economic, and defense interests are vastly different from ours, it is their perogative to form their own alliances and military force to defend those interests (personally, I think it\'s a crazy idea on numerous fronts). France has for many years had a \"let\'s have it both ways\" foreign policy, and they need to rethink that. As for a multi-polar world, we tried that 100 years ago and wound up with that lovely production known fondly as World War I.\r\n\r\nIt also makes sense for the US to reorient its policies and alliances. I don\'t think this is a one-time disagreement; it\'s a fundamental and lasting shift in foreign policy views. In the world of foreign affairs, it is better to have weak but reliable allies than to have unreliable ones. As mentioned in other posts, the nature of the threat has also changed dramatically since 1989.\r\n\r\nIt is now the policy of the US to remove terrorists and the rogue states that sponsor them, using unilateral force only as a last resort. The majority of Americans support this policy, and we need allies who support this policy. Americans are simply not going to let their national security be held hostage by French or German politicians trying to win popularity contests at home. If France and Germany believe that these regimes should be supported, defended, or negotiated with ad infinitum, let them do so separately and without the baggage of pretending to be our allies. On the other hand, a lot of Americans also have personal friends in Europe, and will continue to do so.\r\n\r\nRealistically, this argument only has two sides (ignoring abstinence as a \"side\"). If you attempt to thwart the US in dealing with terrorists and their sponsoring states, you are, de facto, supporting those states. The messages Americans are getting from Europe are \"we hate oppression\" and \"we\'re opposed to regime change\". It comes off sounding rather incoherent and silly. After all, you can\'t really be against hangovers and in favor of drinking binges. Noble though both causes may be, they are logically inconsistent with each other.\r\n\r\nThe Bush Administration, in spite of other shortcomings, reached the conclusion (rightly, I think) that these regimes (Iraq, Syria, N. Korea, et. al.) are not interested in negotiating, compromising, or \"making nice\" with us. As with any totalitarian regime, they play an elaborate shell game designed to extract concessions from us, keep them in power, and keep their citizenry oppressed. On the other hand, they understand the harsh reality of being on the receiving end of a smart bomb quite well - sort of a \"Big Carrot, Big (and accurately aimed) Stick\" approach.\r\n\r\nAs for personal feelings between Americans and Europeans, I\'m reminded of a conversation I overheard once between an American co-worker and an Indian co-worker. The American wondered why all the Indians he knew seemed so mellow, intelligent, and hard working. The Indian fellow said, \"because that\'s the kind who come over here; trust me, there are plenty of loud, lazy dumb-asses back in India\" (picture this being said in a lilting, Hindo-British accent).\r\n\r\nI\'ve run into a few rude, arrogant Frenchmen in several trips to Paris, but there were far more who were friendly and helpful. There\'s lots of stereotyping going on, and things being taken personally. It\'s entirely possible to have French and German friends, travel in Europe, be trading partners, and at the same time disagree with French and German foreign policy, or even, perish the thought, not be official allies. In the end, it\'s people who are friends, not countries.\r\n\r\nDL\r\nWashington, DC','2003-05-07 22:38:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2557,1,3419,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','DL, that was a remarkably well-argued and coherent comment. Thanks for taking the time, that was great.','2003-05-07 23:17:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2558,1,3446,'65.95.81.39','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Hey! No fair peeking under the disguise!\r\n\r\n\"Looking at this, I begin to get a new way of parsing contemporary politics, and an explanation of why the conservatives in power now are really liberals in disguise.\"','2003-05-07 23:21:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2559,1,3441,'64.73.73.18','SparcVark','lanzknecht@hotmail.com','',' You\'re right, Klaatu. I guess that \"conservative\" and \"liberal\" have spun off from their original meaning. Anyhow, I just use them as shorthand - when I use them. I prefer \"left\" and \"right\" personally, but even those are awfully elastic divisions. Are totalitarian communists \"far left\" for believing in income redistribution or \"far right\" for supporting martial law and strict surveillance of private behavior?\r\n\r\n Maybe I oversimplify, but I do it to try to avoid constructing group definitions from whole cloth each time I try to break political philosophies into groups. I *am* awfully lazy.\r\n\r\n That said, I don\'t accuse the left of anti-Americanism to score points, and it\'s not a blanket accusation. I just think it\'s a troubling flaw that is creeping into a lot of reasoning. I see it in people who are far smarter and wiser than I am, who I respect greatly. It\'s a tendency to blame international situations on the United States first, and only grudgingly look at scenarios in which Demon America is not at fault. Some of these people are quite patriotic in their own way, it\'s just that I hear things like \"maybe Stalin wouldn\'t have come to power had the US not had troops in Russia in 1918\" and acting as though the only possible reason for a Sandinista electoral defeat in Nicaragua was American bribery.\r\n\r\n All ideas wither and rot without criticism, and those who believe in an idea are reluctant to criticise it. In a sense, even though I\'m a \"conservative\", I - in a sense - rely on \"liberal\" folks to alert me to dangers in the TIA and Patriot act. And this is why I\'m worried about irrationality on the left, not because I want to show off how right I am.','2003-05-08 00:24:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2560,1,3419,'138.133.17.8','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Yeah!! What he (Joe) said.\r\n\r\nI\'m reserving much of my judgement on this to see if the more hyoperbolic claims of duplicity (passports in Syria, etc.) prove out.\r\n\r\nI am highly confident that France and Germany (along with much of the EU) supported Hussein in a number of legal and probably extralegal ways, and that they did so both because they saw it as their geopolitical interest, and because Saddam exploited the corruption inherent in any large bureaucracy.\r\n\r\nI need to talk more about corruption and bureaucracy, but have an *old post* on the subject.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-08 00:27:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2561,1,3441,'68.0.116.175','Cato the Youngest','catotheyoungest@catotheyoungest.com','http://www.catotheyoungest.com/','Klaatu, to qualify as a \"strict constructionist\", one must be willing to honor the text of the entire Constitution, and to the extent of one\'s understanding, the intent of its framers. You will find relatively few on the Right who obsess over violations of the \"non-establishment\" clause of the First Amendment (they tend to prefer the \"free exercise\" clause), and practically none on the Left who respect the Second or Tenth Amendments. \r\n\r\nIMO, there are practically no truly \"strict constructionists\", but you will find more people who come close, on the Right than the Left. While there are exceptions to every rule, the Right usually directs its unconstitutionalities at problems which threaten the peace and order of the community — the \"rights\" of criminal suspects, enemy aliens in time of war, etc. The Left tends to trample the rights of law-abiding individuals to keep and bear arms suitable for the protection of themselves, their families, and their communities. The Left is also prone to advocate the wholesale federal usurpation of responsibilities reserved to the states. \r\n\r\nPersonally, I expect government to stay out of my face and pocketbook, and to kick the bejeezus out of persons, organizations (foreign or domestic) or nations who threaten the security of our nation.\r\n\r\nRiyadh delenda est!','2003-05-08 01:18:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2562,1,3446,'68.32.175.138','omnibus bill','omnbsbll@aol.com','http://www.crimen_falsi.blogspot.com','Full disclosure: I\'m a neo paleo-con with substantial libertarian leanings. \r\n\r\nI like the two Pirsig books you cite, but one of the problems I have with Pirsig is that he is a neo-Platonist. He engages in this \"search for reality and authenticity\" - as if the punch in the gut in the night from Billy Petrole isn\'t authentic. (Bonus points if you know where that comes from...) Pirsig, in other words, chases his tale for the good and real things that are right in front of his face, that have always been there all along. \r\n\r\nI don\'t buy Pirsig fully because I\'m not sure a strip mall is any less authentic than what it is. Nor is a sailboat more or less authentic and real than any other thing in life; and my bogus job is no better or worse than hammering out horseshoes by hand at an old forge. There are fewer complexities to the smithy than my office... but a Platonist should be able to see that work is work, no matter where you are yoked. \r\n\r\nThe return to material and lifestyle authenticity - which is what I think Pirsig is doing - was sort of a hippie offshoot of the 60s. It is profoundly conservative in a lot of ways - witness Rod Dreher\'s work on the \"Crunchy Conservative\" idea. \r\n\r\nGuys like Pirsig make a big deal out of discovering the glory of a quiet morning on a farm, a sunset in the wilds of Montana, or the pleasure of a nice meal after a day of hard work, or hard travel. No offense to Bob Pirsig, but there is a big conservative tradition of that... welcome to the club. Read H.L. Mencken\'s memoirs of great breakfasts in a creaky old Victorian house, wood fires, old fashioned rye whiskey, and riding in horsecarts in the city. \r\n\r\nIs Pirsig a conservative by coming around to value things that plain ol\' red state folks value? I know it probably means more to him in that he had to journey from modern complexity to classic simplicity, but I don\'t think that makes his sunset better than mine... yr thoughts on this?','2003-05-08 01:27:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2563,1,3445,'68.65.105.126','Nick','Symblized@aol.com','http://www.agonist.org/','I posted on the Agonist. I was four hours late btw and Junkyard Dog two hours late. Metafilter posted at about 8:30 am.','2003-05-08 01:30:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2564,1,3445,'68.65.105.126','Nick','Symblized@aol.com','http://www.agonist.org','I assume Diane posted even earlier, but her site is down right now.','2003-05-08 01:33:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2565,1,3441,'68.0.116.175','Cato the Youngest','catotheyoungest@catotheyoungest.com','http://www.catotheyoungest.com/','\"Please don\'t generalize about people you don\'t know.\" — linden\r\n\r\nIf the Right is prone to generalize about liberals, it\'s because we learned it from your lot. In my 40-odd years, I\'ve discussed a variety of issues with both people on both the Left and Right, and when it comes to sheer obnoxiousness, the Left wins, hands down. When it comes to churlishness in debate, James Carville, Al Sharpton, Chuck Schumer, etc. make Limbaugh look like the \"lovable little fuzzball\", he claims to be. \r\n\r\nThe cold, hard, fact of political life in America is that the Democratic Party is a coalition dominated by groups who either want to live off the public treasury (bureaucrats and welfare clients) or who want the government to support their efforts at extorting a living out of others (trial lawyers and union types). If they don\'t win, they don\'t eat, and when they\'re losing, they can get really nasty.\r\n\r\nThe Republicans have their pressure groups too, but they have also attracted a lot of people who just want government to leave them alone.\r\n\r\nRiyadh delenda est!','2003-05-08 01:38:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2566,1,3445,'67.75.25.57','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','Diane was the one who was able to get his posts up through the convoluted system that Salam and friends in special places had put in place earlier to work around the difficulties of posting direct to blog*spot from Baghdad. \r\n','2003-05-08 01:40:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2567,1,3446,'205.188.209.7','Courtney','karina8680@aol.com','http://courtney.blog-city.com','Wow. I just wanted to say that this is a really amazing discussion. \r\nCourtney','2003-05-08 02:49:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2568,1,3441,'67.75.211.132','David D','daviddriscoll_75@hotmail.com','','Cato - being left alone or not would expain some of the red-and-blue map of the last election. \r\n\r\nI recently visited my uncle, who lives out west. His 2 next door neighbors are his sons - both of whom live a mile in either direction. In contrast, I can knock on my neighbors front door while standing in my home. Urban areas - \"my neighbors can be really annoying, and the law needs to control them\" - vote for Democrats. Non-urban - \"it\'s none of your business what I\'m doing\" - vote Republican.\r\n\r\nGun control - \r\n1) The police are 25 miles away. Of course I\'ve got a gun (well, several, actually).\r\n2) There was a shooting next door (really). Those crooks shouldn\'t have a gun.\r\n\r\nAnother factor is that anyone who lives off the government generally votes for Democrats, and that\'s much more common in cities. This isn\'t just - or even primarily - about welfare. My last job was at a research institute, and there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth about what the effect of a Republican administration might have upon grant funding. Unions, too - big government = big contracts = big unions.\r\n\r\nIt\'s a rather complex topic.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-08 02:52:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2569,1,3441,'66.8.181.254','Kimmitt','kimmitt32@hotmail.com','http://www.kimmitt.org','The notion that Conservatives, as a class, are more historically informed than Liberals is absurd on its face.\r\n\r\nThe average Conservative has just as little concept of how Hitler rose to power in Weimar Germany as the average Liberal -- and neither of them see the much more close parallels to Fascist Spain and Italy or wartime Athens. Educated people, in general, are a tiny minority in this country. Liberals call Conservatives Nazis because Hitler\'s regime is a shorthand for the kind of brutal suppression of dissent (and minorities, and gays, for that matter) that Conservatives would like to inflict on this country. Conservatives call Liberals traitors, because that\'s what Conservatives have always done; the cries have gotten louder lately because of fundamentalist millenialism. \r\n\r\nI mean, yes, it\'s nice to look into the Conservative psyche and grasp that decisions aren\'t made on anything resembling a rational basis; this gives us insight into what Liberals can do to nonrationally defeat them. But the basic dynamic was established in 1945 and hasn\'t changed since then.\r\n','2003-05-08 03:45:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2570,1,3441,'64.230.114.26','Tynan','tynan@planetunreal.com','','Liberals in general seem to be far more idealistic on every issue than conservatives, hence the insistence that inspectors were the solution to the problem of Saddam even after 12 years of noncompliance. Frequently they appear to be quite out of touch with reality because of this, and have their priorities(i.e. pleasing the UN over human life) and math skills(Iraq body counts varying over war/no war scenarios) badly screwed up.\r\n\r\nI think it\'s important to realize that one may be \"liberal\" on one topic and \"conservative\" on others at the same time. Labelling a person in a blanket statement as being purebred from either side would probably be very accurate.\r\n\r\nOne\'s political leanings may be radically different between issues of religion, gender equality, military, economy, welfare, etc etc. I, for example, fully supported the war in Iraq, while at the same time I also support homosexual rights and separation of church and state while at the same time opposing affirmative action.\r\n\r\nIt\'s perfectly possible to be all over the spectrum for different issues.\r\n','2003-05-08 04:09:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2571,1,3447,'216.17.147.99','Robi','rsen@department13.com','','one of the stories I forgot to mention was *this * which if you think about it is pretty damn hilarious.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-08 04:35:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2572,1,3447,'12.211.214.135','Mark','mobroner@attbi.com','','Good take on the india/pakistan situation which is something that should be talked about way more. ','2003-05-08 05:05:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2573,1,3446,'205.188.209.7','Matt Ward','wardamma@aol.com','','Armed Liberal,\r\n\r\nI think you\'ve got your definitions of romanticism and classicism almost completely backwards.\r\n\r\nRomanticism, as it developed in the early 19th century, believed that man was very much shaped by the world around him, especially by the past and by the limitations of nature, both his own and the natural world around him. True happiness was found by discovering your groove as a German, Frenchman, etc. and not by trying to remake your world. Romanticism was very deterministic, and thus conservative. In as much as it championed the irrational, it did provide underpinnings for many terrorists, but not as much for radicalism.\r\n\r\nRomanticism was a revolt against classicism, which was developed by the Enlightenment philosophes of the previous century. They \"knew their place\" only in the sense that they believed the world was run by natural laws (like a clock), which once understood, could be tinkered with to create a new, better world. It was the classists who were the forerunners for all those later radicals who wanted to remake the world, such as Marxists. ','2003-05-08 05:23:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2574,1,3445,'152.163.189.131','button','button@nospam.com','','I don\'t understand why Diane can\'t start another blog under another name. I don\'t understand why her employer told her she can\'t blog-- what if she were keeping a diary? I\'ve never heard of this. Lots of people keep journals and diaries. I can understand why CNN wanted their reporter to stop, since they could view the blog as competition, but for a person who is not a working journalist, this is ridiculous, and I can\'t really believe that her employer has total control over her 24 hrs a day-- it doesn\'t make any sense. I don\'t really get her perspective on the world, I really don\'t. During the New Yorker incident it seemed like she was just another Monica Lewinsky into self-promotion. I don\'t want to bad-mouth her but taking her blog down and claiming that her boss has total control over her 24 hrs a day just doesn\'t seem very credible to me. This is all too drama queen. And then there was her legal \"defense\" fund-- in defense of what? I am relieved that Salam has survived and that he already has a sat phone. Some people were talking about chipping in and buying him a sat phone. Well, now they don\'t have to. Happy ending!','2003-05-08 05:40:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2575,1,3446,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Matt-\r\n\r\nI\'ll disagree, and suggest that you\'re confusing the Romantic attachment for wild places and \'authenticity\' - much like Marie Antoinette\'s authenticity as a shepherd girl - with their belief that the self was outer-determined.\r\n\r\nI\'ll suggest Berlin\'s book (of which I\'m a big fan and have *blogged* a bit...\"The Roots of Romanticism\"...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-08 06:29:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2576,1,3441,'68.0.116.175','Cato the Youngest','catotheyoungest@catotheyoungest.com','http://www.catotheyoungest.com','David, you\'re quite right that there are a lot more \"consumers\" of government funds than just welfare clients, and many of them perform useful services. I also agree that being left alone sells better outside the major metropolitan areas. But my point that if Dems don\'t win, they don\'t eat, is still valid, and explains much of the nastiness on the part of the Left. \r\n\r\nThe Right tends to work outside the government sector, and most of them are a little more laid back about most issues (gun control and abortion being the main exceptions).\r\n\r\nRiyadh delenda est!','2003-05-08 06:38:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2577,1,3441,'24.69.255.203','Jay Currie','jay-currie@shaw.ca','http://www.reviewing.blogspot.com','The liberal/conservative debate is greatly complicated by the fact a great deal has happened since the terms were last revised - which, I\'d argue, happened shortly after WWII.\r\n\r\nAndrew sullivan suggested that there were a group of Americans hawkish on foreign policy but appalled by the religious right\'s social conservative agenda. He suggested these folks be referrred to as \"eagles\" to distinguish them from hawks or doves. The bird didn\'t fly.\r\n\r\nThe religious right in the US and, to a lesser degree Canada, has hijacked the social agenda of traditionally conservative parties. Similarily, the identity politicians of the interest group left have all but eliminated liberal, civil discourse by dint of pushing for politically correct rhetoric and outcome. \r\n\r\nIn both instances these are profoundly radical and marginal positions; but in the States, where the nation is divided right down the middle, mainstream politicians have no choice but to pander to the noisy fringes of their support. \r\n\r\nWhat is emerging in Canada, and, I think in the States, is a profound generational cleavage between the wrinklies on the far left and the far right and the sub-40\'s who like their pot, porn and partners without too much hassle from the State. \r\n\r\nAt the moment these are lazy libertarians; but the growing backlash against the inanities of the War on Drugs, the futility of net censorship and widespread acceptence of, as the fundamentalists would have it, \"unmarried lifestyles\" may get these people more actively involved in politics.\r\n\r\nIt may not, however, get them involved in mainline party politics. There is not the same sense of attachment to political parties that there was in the last century. And there is a general disgust for the carryings on of politicians of left, right or centerist inclination. \r\n\r\nThe liberal/conservative dicotomy is just as likely to collapse under the weight of its fringes as to carry on governing. And from the rubble assorted, loose, alliances of the willing will likely begin to set agendas which reflect the real world of the new century rather than the forgotten world of the old one.','2003-05-08 08:53:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2578,1,3441,'208.20.220.69','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','The decency question is paramount. I\'m surprised no other commenter has addressed it.\r\n\r\n\"Decent\" comes from the old Latin word decens, which means fitting or appropriate. What\'s appropriate is always contextual. However, context doesn\'t tell all; it doesn\'t address fundamental moral questions about right and wrong -- and here we come to the real cleavage issue that divides Left from Right.\r\n\r\nThe Left tends to maintain that there are no absolutes in morality, while the Right maintains the opposite. Which is why I generally identify with the Right: without a moral foundation, it\'s impossible to know when to act against, which is the only thing government can ever do, by its very nature.\r\n\r\nThe underlying impulse for the Left\'s position is comprehensible. It\'s an overreaction to traditional moral strictures, mostly about sex, that were based upon religious premises. But if ever there were a case of tossing out the baby with the bathwater, this is it.\r\n\r\nOn the other side of the aisle, Rightists have largely effaced the borders between those things that are wrong in principle, such as murder, and those things that are bad for you, such as intoxication. This, of course, feeds Leftists\' distaste for them and fear of their political intentions.\r\n\r\nCan we settle the question of \"what is politically decent?\" in any general setting?\r\n\r\nI think it\'s possible, but difficult. It will require a return to shared premises about moral fundamentals: the acceptable uses of force. It will require an agreement that those moral strictures are permanently superior to all other political goals. And it will require recognition that ours is a universe in which ends and means cannot be distinguished from one another.\r\n\r\n\"Decent\" people, in the colloquial sense, want the best for one another, and will exert some effort on others\' behalf out of pure fellow-feeling. But they would also be horrified and remorseful if, out of good intentions, they were to do one another actual harm. A true League Of The Decent would be most watchful of its own failures, because failure is the universe\'s way of telling you that you don\'t know enough to achieve your goals. It would admit its mistakes openly, make restitution for them, and strain mightily to avoid repeating them. It would never promote its intentions above its achievements.\r\n\r\nHow do we get there from our current, fractious, nearly unendurable political impasse?\r\n\r\nGet a few liberals and a few conservatives into a big room. Provide comfy chairs, lots of decaf and some first-rate jelly doughnuts. Then get them talking about their failures, and what they learned from them. Don\'t allow anyone to talk about a political achievement until he\'s first described the failure that taught him what he needed to know to achieve it. And don\'t allow anyone to characterize the passage of a law, or a court decision, or any other pure operation of government power as an \"achievement\"; achievements and failures are to be determined solely from changes in people\'s health, wealth, and security.\r\n\r\nInasmuch as the human race\'s principal product is mistakes, the restoration of political humility, whether in the above fashion or any other, is prerequisite to curing our other political ills. And there\'s a funny thing about humility: it\'s appropriate to any and every context. It\'s always decent.\r\n','2003-05-08 12:33:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2579,1,3445,'65.95.82.2','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Button, Diane\'s blog is apparently a problem because her workplace is leftist and politically intolerant. As for starting a new blog under a different name, it\'s not as easy as it appears. Having been warned by her employer, whatever she does needs to be leak-proof. If she is identified with a new blog, she could lose her job. She decided no blog was worth that.','2003-05-08 14:08:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2580,1,3446,'68.55.43.64','Gregory S. Hill','gregoryshill@comcast.net','','\"What works is a tension between the two things; a tension within each of us as people, within our politics as a society.\"\r\n\r\nIt takes a liberal to imagine the boat; a conservative to build it. It takes a liberal to imagine a new destination; a conservative to sail it.\r\n\r\nThat is why any great leader is surrounded by a tension of ideas, rather than sycophants.','2003-05-08 15:42:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2581,1,3446,'65.164.200.33','WildMonk','wildmonk@wildmonk.net','http://wildmonk.net','Matt,\r\n\r\nYou are correct insofar as you say \"Romanticism was a revolt against classicism\" in the sense that, especially as originated by Rousseau, it was a backlash against and critique of the rising commercial order. However, I have to agree with A.L. here because the Romanticists did *not* see the world around them on its own terms. They, well, \'romanticized\' it. Nature, for the Romantics, was an idealized world of perfect balance, wild beauty, and the forge of human perfection. Its vagaries and violence, when acknowledged, were part of a bigger plan for molding the perfection or character (or \'authenticity\') of human players. In time this morphed into wildly inaccurate - \'romanticized\' again - views of primitive societies and aboriginal peoples. \r\n\r\nBut, simultaneously, a practical, commercial order was rising whose continued success became absolutely essential to the survival of literally billions of human beings around the planet. Any attempt to return society to a state of nature - as Romanticists advocate - would inflict death and misery of truly horrific dimensions. Thus, defending the system that the classicists have built - the conservative position - should be the core mission of all modern governments. \r\n\r\nA.L. and Sparc have it right - where we differ should lie only in the degree to which we prevent stasis from growing into oppression and the degree to which we experiment with optimizations and improvements to the existing order.','2003-05-08 15:57:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2582,1,3446,'206.190.18.183','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Socialism is dead.\r\n\r\nWhat is replacing it is an evangelical democratic libertarianism. \r\n\r\nThe opposition will be the cultural conservatives.\r\n\r\nBush represents the new center well in foreign policy.\r\n\r\nClinton represented it well in actual (as opposed to desired) domestic policy. \r\n\r\nBush with his weak endorsement of Santorum is already moving to the new center.\r\n\r\nAs to parties: I think the Democrats are dead and the Republicans must split. Liberal and conservative will be restored to their original meaning.','2003-05-08 16:01:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2584,1,3446,'172.162.58.197','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','That\'s an interesting question in and of itself: are the Democrats dead? I can\'t see any of the current wannabes winning in 2004.','2003-05-08 18:19:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2585,1,3447,'172.175.82.117','Arthur','ArthurPoet@Hotmail.com','','I will tell you what I find to be the most disturbing thing of all, (though all and all I am heartened by much of what I am seeing ... there does seem to be movement and progress in lands and places where, heretofore, there had not been) ...\r\n\r\n... but France\'s culpability is, by far, the worst and most sickening to discover. \r\n\r\nTreasonous ... an act of war against one\'s own professed and proven ally ... Does anyone remember WW2 and D-Day? ... I have walked and slept upon French soil ... I have sipped espresso and wine in lazy cafe\'s in the beautiful and serene French countryside ... I have had dear and close friends in that land ... and though I do not hold those whom I know and have known personally responsible, I do take this act and betrayal personally. I do strongly believe that there should be some kind of punitive action for France\'s violations of the UN resolution. \r\n\r\nMy father, upon entering Paris, as an American soldier, shortly after we liberated her during WW2 ... said that he felt, *not* appreciation, but resentment ... and now that resentment has most definitely come to light. My father described the sentiment as being captured in the following French slogan (... reading between the lines, of course ...)\r\n\r\n\"Viva La France ... [and phuck everyone else] !\"\r\n\r\n... pardon my french ... but ...\r\n\r\nIf you cannot trust your \"friends/allies\", who can you trust ... and what does it take to achieve true peace with these volatile and brutal regimes when your efforts are being undermined and subverted behind your back?\r\n\r\nRobi ... excellent post and extremely informative ... where do you get the time to accumulate all of those links and references? Don\'t you ever sleep? \r\n\r\nPeace, \r\nArthur,\r\n','2003-05-08 18:37:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2586,1,3446,'131.193.113.117','Mike Van Winkle','mike@armchairanalyst.net','http://www.armchairanalyst.net','First, I think you hit on something important when you talked about the tension between liberal and conservative as working. It is one of the overlooked strengths of a two party system that this tension is optimized, in a manner of speaking.\r\n\r\nAlso, you said \"the conservatives in power now are really liberals in disguise\". This goes both ways. I know more than a few liberals whose answer to \"conservative\" insistence that people should take care of themselves is a simple \"but they won\'t.\"\r\n\r\n','2003-05-08 19:03:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2587,1,3446,'138.133.17.9','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','O. Bill - I don\'t know if you know what a serious question you raise, but either way, my hat\'s off to you for raising it.\r\n\r\nWhat you talk about - \"...I\'m not sure a strip mall is any less authentic than what it is. Nor is a sailboat more or less authentic and real than any other thing in life; and my bogus job is no better or worse than hammering out horseshoes by hand at an old forge. There are fewer complexities to the smithy than my office... but a Platonist should be able to see that work is work, no matter where you are yoked.\" you are talking about one of the central issues I\'m struggling with both personally and philosophically.\r\n\r\nI decided a long time ago that for me, working in the \'real world\' was more authentic than being a philosopher or artist, or being a wandering outdoorsman.\r\n\r\nAnd the world I live in - urban Los Angeles - is just as concrete to me as the world I see when I hike in the Sierra or sail past Big Sur on the way from San Francisco to Los Angeles.\r\n\r\nBut - there\'s always one, isn\'t there? - there is something in modern, rational society that tends to lead to anomie and alienation; a lack of opportunities for praxis (self-authentication action) that leaves too many people feeling empty and restless.\r\n\r\nThose are the two walls of the chimney I need to climb, and that I believe this society needs to climb if it is to survive.\r\n\r\nBecause that philosophical and - dare I say - spiritual weakness is what will ultimately destroy us, far before some environmental catastrophe or external attack. It is what produces, not only Al-Quieda, but Tim McVeigh.\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n','2003-05-08 19:11:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2588,1,3447,'217.185.237.144','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\njust _sometimes_ i think americans should\'nt try to write about european policy.\r\n\r\n\"64 years later, revenge at last. I bet the Poles think this is pretty damn hilarious. I sure do.\"\r\n\r\ni bet you\'re damn wrong... i can assure you...\r\n\r\nTHE POLES are PANIC - when rumsfeld told them they should administrate and secure one thrid of iraq they where in REAL trouble\r\n\r\ntrouble reason No.1: the polish population IS and was AGAINST THIS WAR, this makes it difficult for this government (wich is in trouble because of other reasons right now..) to consent in this question.\r\n\r\ntrouble reason No.2: they just have\'nt the money to do the job - so they asked mr rumsfeld for some money, but the only thing he could say them is he will ask some foreign contries for some donations .. which simply does\'nt solve the polish problem.\r\n\r\ntrouble reason No.3: they haven\'t the troops to do the job. in short history of post-cold-war polish armee they just where sometimes with small contingents in UN-Peace missions, but they never had any command.\r\nso their SOLDIERS are not expierienced in doing the difficult iraqi job, they haven\'t that good material nor supply abilities to send troops so far away under own command and responsibility, AND (which will cause even MORE PROBLEMS) they haven\'t got the staff to do the job, they haven\'t got experienced generals, nor officers to do a job of this kind. remember: FIRST they said \'YEA! we will send 9000 man to iraq [which is, in my eyes, absured understuffed], THEN they said, okay *OOPS* we can\'t do this, we will send 2200 man, and ask some other countrys to send another 5000 [7000 soldiers to secure and rebuild ONE THRID of iraq? this is absolute ABSURD]\r\n\r\ntheir only way out was the german/danish/polish corps wich is expierienced in international peace-missions, but was in the past _alway_s under german command. so the polish defense minister ASKED the germans if they would agree in sending this troops - but theri problem was THE WAY they asked so now we have:\r\n\r\ntrouble reason No.4: germans didn\'t want to send troops to iraq, ONE is their ability to do so: they have troops in afghanistan, AND have the cent-com there, they have troops at somalia\'s coast under own command, they have/had AWAYS in turky airspace, they have peacekeeping troops in kosova and mazedonia, and they have ABC-troops in Kuwait, so they have pretty much to do by now (TO HELP THEIR AMERICAN FRIENDS - BEAR THIS IN MIND!!!), and are not hot to get a new difficult job to do.\r\nthe other reason was their opposition of the irai invasion. and politically they wouldn\'t even get the idea to send troops UNLEAST there is a UN-Mandat.\r\nbut IF they where asekd politely by the polish to agree to send the german/dansih/polish corps, BACKED by US diplomacy it would have been difficult to say \'no\' .. BUT the polish DIDN\'T talk to the germans (nor the danish) but told the whole story to an AMERICAN NEWSPAPER - this was ridiculous, so germans easily could say \'no this was not arraged with us, we have no interest in this\' - and BY NOW the polish have a problem.\r\n\r\nby now the polish are in a FUCKED UP situation - and they are SURLY NOT HILARIOUS, and they never where - rumsfeld has braught them in a damn difficult \'how-the-hell-i-can-get-out-of-this-trouble\' situation.\r\n\r\n\r\nand some words in general: you should bear in mind, when you\'re philosophize about your \'new europe\' - you are an illusionist. POLAND, like ALL the \'new europe\' is hinging on european economy, they are addictet to the money and goods they get out of \'old-europe\', and they are addictet to the exports to \'old-europe\' - and in case of doubt POLAND is nearer to germany then to the US.\r\ni could read an article in a tcheska republica newspaper (which, for those who don\'t know is part of \'your new-europe\') about the american idea of removing the troops out of germany and send them to tcheska and poland. the article said the folloing:\r\n - it is a bad idea to accept the american troops, this will seem like a punishment to the \'unwilling germans\', wich will do damage to whole europe.\r\n\r\n - american troops are not longer needed in germany, nor elsewere in europe, the EU should to this job alone.\r\n\r\n - the new idea of an european-armee-union is great, and after germany,france and belgium other countries should join - ALSO, some time in the future, the states of the \'new-europe\'\r\n\r\nthis are the voices coming out of your \'new-europe\'.\r\n\r\njust let me bet a few things, i do not have to be right here, but I think the possibility is high:\r\n\r\n - POLAND will REJECT the american idea of securing one third of iraq, because of lack of money, experience and troops. [only way out: america pays some billions to Poland]\r\n\r\n - the whole \'new-europe\' will soon turn 180° and see germany, france and the other EU countrys are nearer, in history, economy and secruity intrests to them then the US.\r\n\r\n - a european-armee-union will develop in the not to fast future, beginning with france, germany and belgium but other european countries joining fast.\r\n\r\n - the US will be troubled in AFGHANISTAN _AND_ IRAQ, and will lose credit in the whole world (they just did).\r\n\r\nand last words: neither THIS, nor I am any kind of \'anti-american\' - i just do analyses out of my eyes, like you do. read brzezinski, he writes in the same diction about europe and russia, so i think it\'s okay to to the same with america.\r\nI KNOW, LIKE (in my eyes) NEARLY EVERY GERMAN, THE US IS A DEEP FRIEND OF US, but they make mistakes, and why should we remain silent on this??\r\n\r\n','2003-05-08 19:12:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2589,1,3444,'198.103.53.5','Ikram Saeed','saeedik@hotmail.com','http://canoe.blogspot.com','Good to see you post a few things about Canada, Joe. \r\n\r\nBruceR at Flit has had a few discussions about Canadian defence policy. What\'s feasible, etc. Defence is usually a pretty low priority for Canadians, so there are political constraints any increase in defence financing.','2003-05-08 19:15:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2590,1,3447,'217.185.237.147','MAXIM','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\n\"the more evidence comes to light of France not only aiding Saddam but the whole Ba\'ath party\"\r\n\r\ni think this is absolute nonsense. you should stop spreading this absurd conspiracys.\r\nfrance surly did NOT give any passports or help to saddam or any of his friend.\r\n\r\nin order to the passports: it is impossible to them to just distrubute european-union passports.\r\nto immigrate into EU is not very easy, or let\'s better say it\'s damn hard, and not every country can do what ever it wants to, because it affects every other EU member.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-08 19:19:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2591,1,3446,'64.73.73.18','SparcVark','lanzknecht@hotmail.com','',' A disclaimer: I know almost nothing about philosophy. I plan to remedy this in the future, but for right now my understanding is quite sketchy.\r\n\r\n That said, I largely agree with Matt. Romanticism, as Rousseau saw it at least, was intended as a counter to Classical ideas of empirical rationality. Locke and Hobbes had their idea of an undramatic but functional society, and Adam Smith would later assign the phrase \"enlightened self-interest\" to it. I think, based on a limited understanding (see above) that Romanticism lodged an argument against their hugely successful but conceptually boring society: its members had lost their \"authenticity\".\r\n\r\n This mythical quantity, possessed in spades by every \"noble savage\", had been ignored by modern society, and the Romantics wanted to reintegrate it into civilization. This led to an idealization of aboriginal cultures, rural communities, crying a lot, etc. Whether an action was rationally sound made less sense than whether it was an authentic display of feeling. See the French revolution\'s later stages for examples of why this might not be the best idea.\r\n\r\n I think the real poison of Romanticism was its concept of the \"general will\" - that the individual does not necessarily know what is best for himself, and that he can be \"forced to be free\" - by the collective state. This led to Marx\'s \"false consciousness\" and has served as an underpinning for dictatorial groups claiming that they know what\'s best for the unenlightened masses, and to tyranny.\r\n\r\n I\'m less certain of the Romantics\' position on the state of nature. While they unquestionably \"Romanticised\" nature and the \"noble savage\", it can be argued that this represents their fundamental misunderstanding of the world - in their own eyes, they may have been conforming to nature as it was. However, Romantic offshoots like Nietzsche and Marxism, even what I know of Rousseau\'s on \"Emile\", show a belief in, and obsession with, the perfectability of humanity. And I think it\'s that belief that has caused so much misery in the modern world.\r\n\r\n I don\'t think the Romantics, as I understand them, fit under any useful label of \"conservative\". I see them as quite radical, and indeed quite destructive.\r\n\r\n But A.L. has a point I often make - there is no denying the Romantic urge in people. The rational state of Locke and Hobbes provides security and plenty for the vast majority of its citizens, and a sound platform for life. But the Romantic longing persists. Humans have heroic tendencies, and the rational state is not heroic. People find themselves longing for a cause, a fight, a sense of purpose. \"How shall we then live with our wealth and safety?\" is an important question, and the crusading impulse in humanity will come out somehow. It behooves a society to have constructive and positive outlets for it available. I could go into why I don\'t think this is the state\'s concern, but I\'ve been long-winded enough for now.','2003-05-08 19:22:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2592,1,3440,'198.103.53.5','Ikram Saeed','saeedik@hotmail.com','http://canoe.blogspot.com','I see the Graham position as kind of nutty. There are also very dangerous Naxalite terrorists in Bihar, and Maoists in Nepal, but it\'s hardly the US\'s job to fight them. Same goes for HAMAS, who attacks Israel and causes trouble for Arafat. \r\n\r\nAs you know, Joe, it\'s never been a war against terrorism. It\'s a war against terrorists with global reach. Which I take to mean terrorist that can hurt the USA. \r\n\r\nFor political reasons, this includes HAMAS and the East Turkestan Islamic Movement. And to the extent those groups aid ALQ, or other enemies of the USA, they shoudl be targetted and pressured. But it would be easier (less blood and treasure spent) to use pressure and threats (and targetted violence) to prevent those groups from helping ALQ. \r\n\r\n(In fact, making war on HAMAS might hurt the USA, to the extent that HAMAS and ALQ begin co-operating. Right now, HAMAS is not a US problem. Wouldn\'t it be better to keep it that way?)\r\n\r\nBut, of course, the US is free to choose its own position. Neither you nor I have any sway in what they do. Here in Canada, we ought to defend ourselves against the enemies of Canada, which include ALQ, but do not include Naxalites, ETIM, or for that matter, HAMAS. ','2003-05-08 19:26:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2593,1,3438,'210.180.96.9','The Marmot','rjkoehler@yahoo.com','http://marmotshole.blogspot.com','Doesn\'t the USAF have its own fleet of Mig-29Cs that we bought from Moldovia? Last time I checked (which was a while ago), they were sitting in some airbase in Ohio.\r\n\r\nAs a fan of air power, I have been playing around with an idea for a while. Couldn\'t we invite some NATO wannabe (and in particular, I\'m thinking of the Ukraine) to participate in one of the big annual exercises that the USAF runs in Nevada? The Ukkies would not only benefit from learning from the best, but they\'d also earn brownie points from Washington. Meanwhile, our guys could learn what it\'s like to go up against PROPERLY flown Russian warbirds. I, for one, would pay to see an F-15 go up against a Su-27 in the hands of a reasonably competent pilot.\r\n','2003-05-08 19:41:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2594,1,3445,'151.203.217.21','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','If this guy Salam Pax doesn\'t show up pretty soon to claim his 15 minutes of fame and to cash in, it will start to smell bad.\r\n','2003-05-08 20:54:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2595,1,3445,'151.203.217.21','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','As for Button\'s comment, I agree in all respects. Ridiculous. If any employer in the US sought such control, they would be subject to legal sanctions.\r\n\r\nAnother reason why it will start to smell bad if Salam Pax doesn\'t show up soon. Like the cloned Raelian babies.\r\n','2003-05-08 20:59:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2596,1,3446,'171.161.160.10','Jeff Medcalf','medcalf@caerdroia.org','http://www.caerdroia.org/blog','There seems to be a rising agreement that the conservative/liberal and left/right classifications of political thought have broken down. The real discussion right now seems to be on what to replace it with. This is always, in the end, a discussion about the degree to which we will preserve and reform our current institutions and cultural norms, as opposed to overthrowing and replacing them with something new.\r\n\r\nThe formulation of this that has held sway from the middle of the Depression through to today has been to question the degree to which change would be radical, with the left arguing for fast and radical change, and the right arguing for slow or non-existent change. I believe that the Cold War ossified both the West and the Soviet Union, but with the end of the Cold War, the centrists have won the debate, with the consensus among the vast majority of people to change, reform or replace our cultural norms and societal institutions at a noticable, but not rapid, pace. We appear to have, as a general rule in the US and Europe at least, decided that we will neither be bound by the past, nor rush headlong into an unknown future.\r\n\r\nI have recently begun to think that the issue now is about who will control those changes. On the one hand, there are the former radical leftists (think A.N.S.W.E.R., Chomsky, Jane Fonda) and the radical rightists (think Buchanan, Pat Robertson, Pim Fortuyn), who believe that the collective expression of a people (whether it be a nation or an organization) is more important that the individuals who comprise it - that we are better off as a society if we allow the state to control vast expanses of our public and private lives. The radical left wants to control our political views while the radical right wants to control our social views. The internal debates within these collectivists are whether the power of the state will be manifested within a largely controlled or a largely self-regulated economy, and whether the US will be isolationist or internationalist.\r\n\r\nOn the other hand are those who believe that, while the state must have some power to keep civil order and defend against foreign enemies, the essential point is to allow individuals to control their own life to the extent that they can do so without the state\'s intervention. The centrist left wants the state to be more involved, thinking that, for example, individuals are not capable of providing for their own health care as well as is just and right. The centrist right wants the state to be less involved, thinking that, for example, individuals can best handle their own health care needs as long as the government provides for the indigent and very poor. The internal debates within these individualists are the degree to which government should be involved in provision of services, and the degree to which the US needs to be aggressive or reactionary to overseas threats.\r\n\r\nIn this spectrum, if looked at one dimensionally, the extreme individualists are the Libertarians, while the extreme collectivists are the various totalitarians (from unreconstructed Stalinists to the neo-Nazis and the KKK).\r\n\r\nWeb sites typical of the collectivist point of view include Democratic Underground and Indymedia, while websites typical of the individualist point of view include Winds of Change and InstaPundit.\r\n','2003-05-08 21:17:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2597,1,3446,'172.172.195.248','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','The radical left wants to control our political views while the radical right wants to control our social views. \r\n\r\nI\'m not exactly sure what you\'ve classified as constituting \"political views\" as opposed to \"social views\", but I would maintain that both sides want to control the social and the political through state coercion. They both desire (imo) much too high degrees of state control of the individual. The right seems to believe they have the right to legislate what happens in a bedroom between two consenting adults as well as what Americans are allowed to say while the left in many ways also wants control speech, just for different reasons/justifications.\r\n','2003-05-09 00:38:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2598,1,3446,'12.232.251.223','NF','nrfridge@aol.com','','When Totten talks about \"Building\" and \"Preserving\", I want to shift the focus to \"Imagining\" and \"Accepting\"...\r\n\r\nI don\'t want to be too incendiary in response to what is a very constructive line of thought, but let\'s be realistic: for far too many liberals the term \"Hallucinating\" fits better than \"Imagining\".\r\n\r\nTotten virtually makes this point himself when he describes the Nation\'s attempts to project its prejudices on a country like Iraq.\r\n\r\nI suppose in a way this is due to an inherent \'occupational hazard\'. If you are concerned about preserving what is in front of you there are at least facts to hand against which to measure your ideas. If your goal is to imagine an ideal future there is no corresponding restraint on loopiness.','2003-05-09 01:02:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2599,1,3446,'12.232.251.223','NF','nrfridge@aol.com','','The more I think about it, the more revealing Totten\'s thesis is.\r\n\r\nIn my lifetime leftists, in both the US and the UK, have been focused domestically on good vs bad (with themselves cast as the good vs. conservatives).\r\n\r\nFair enough, maybe they actually know something about their own country.\r\n\r\nHowever, wishing to sound like they have something to say about the world outside their own country (trying not to look ignorant) they have continually tried to project onto it a parallel dichotomy. \r\n\r\nThe problem is that unlike domestically they themselves can\'t be the \'good\' in this picture: they are not foreigners. \r\n\r\nConsequently, every time there is a conservative administration at home (and many are so far left that to them every real administration is conservative), someone else has to be cast in the good role overseas, so that the US (or the UK) can be the bad.\r\n\r\nBut as Totten suggests leftists typically are seriously ignorant about the outside world. Also, I would suggest, while they really care in a personal way about getting to be the good guys themselves domestically (it\'s the mainspring of their politics), they don\'t much care about the details of who gets to be the superior moral being overseas. These are the two sources of the succession of completely fatuous idolizations of the USSR, China, Nicaragua, Cuba and on and on. Anyone who opposes the US will do.\r\n\r\nIt\'s pathetic. It\'s pathetic because it is narcissism and ignorance proclaiming itself as moral superiority.\r\n\r\nOn the other hand I suppose it\'s a pretty neat trick to be able to serve it up in a way that it actually impresses people (and gets you tenure)!','2003-05-09 03:01:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2600,1,3452,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','I consider decency to be one of the foundations of real virtue; even in battle one can be decent, and much of the ritual that surrounds martial arts is the echo of those forms of decency. \r\n\r\nOur troops in Iraq...giving medical aid to the fallen Iraqui troops who they had, moments before, been shooting...demonstrated this last month.\r\n\r\nDecency is what allows relationships to last long enough to grow roots, and what allows bitter enemies to ultimately coexist.\r\n\r\nI\'m glad it\'s been brought out of the closet.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-09 07:16:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2601,1,3433,'66.25.120.111','Sal','sal@edge.com','','Think Armand Hammer.\r\n\r\nRemember when Presidents would consult with Hammer on how to deal with the Soviet Union? They did because he had business ties to the them. I believe they both used him to pass info back and forth.\r\n\r\nThere is someone with a lot more pull than that now, with NK. What is astounding is that NO ONE will talk about it.\r\n\r\nWe have a man who has given billions to NK to help keep them afloat. He has bought, according to DIA documents, at least 12 submarines for NK. He has an auto plant in NK and has signed billions in business deals with them. This man, who owns millions of acres of South America, exchanges birthday greetings and gifts with Kim Jong Il and met with Kim\'s father, Kim Il Sung, before he passed. \r\n\r\nThe good news is the Bushes, the Republican party and in particular the conservative theocratic movement have a long history of supporting and working with this man and his group. Bush\'s Dad has given numerous speeches on his behalf. Bush 41 called him \'the man with the vision.\" He gave Bush\'s father a million dollars for his presidential library. He was a VIP guest at the Reagan Bush inaugural in \'81. The republican\'s worked with his group to push Bush\'s Faith Based Initiative. He owns the paper which is the voice of the conservative movement. Why he even sponsored W\'s inaugural prayer luncheon.\r\n\r\nWhy doesn\'t anyone ask what advice Bush has asked for or received from this man on how to handle North Korea? Could it be that since this man had predicted in the 70\'s that presidents would come to him for advice and power and since that is true, Bush doesn\'t want us to know it? Could it be the conservatives are afraid to let people know about their benefactor? There \'go to\' guy. He printed and distributed 30 million voter guides for Poppy in \'88. No doubt that without his billions pumped into the conservative movement over the last couple decades, the election of 2000 wouldn\'t have been close enough to go to the Supremes. Without him Bush wouldn\'t be president. Heck, they are so close, Bush just named this man\'s long time operative to head VISTA.\r\n\r\nOne problem is, we don\'t know who\'s side he is on...my guess is he is all the way with NK. He has called America \"Satan\'s harvest\"...\r\n\r\n\r\nCheck out the DIA documents after you read this...\r\nhttp://www.consortiumnews.com/2000/101100a.html\r\n\r\nlearn a little about his power...\r\nhttp://www.mediachannel.org/originals/moontranscript.shtml \r\n\r\nPlay the Nov. 12, 2002 show here.\r\nhttp://wfmu.org/playlists/DX\r\n\r\nListen to what his daughter-in-law has to say about the republican go to guy.\r\nhttp://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1000731 \r\n\r\nHere this tells about this man selling tickets to see George and Barbara Bush in Japan. He made millions from Bush\'s appearance, not to mention lots of face.\r\nhttp://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/55a/018.html\r\n\r\nHere you have the republicans working with and empowering him, surely he owes them a favor...maybe not he is the one who put THEM in power.\r\nhttp://www.au.org/churchstate/cs6013.htm\r\n\r\nlearn how he is perverting the UN beyond what the Bircher\'s er a, Republicans think. They helped empower him, the conservative movement helped him.\r\n\r\nlike they say here...It\'s your country, It\'s your faith, it\'s your choice\r\nhttp://nomoonies.tripod.com/\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-09 07:17:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2602,1,3443,'66.25.120.111','Sal','s@msn.sec','','\r\nAnd I won\'t for get this....Think Armand Hammer.\r\n\r\nRemember when Presidents would consult with Hammer on how to deal with the Soviet Union? They did because he had business ties to the them. I believe they both used him to pass info back and forth.\r\n\r\nThere is someone with a lot more pull than that now, with NK. What is astounding is that NO ONE will talk about it.\r\n\r\nWe have a man who has given billions to NK to help keep them afloat. He has bought, according to DIA documents, at least 12 submarines for NK. He has an auto plant in NK and has signed billions in business deals with them. This man, who owns millions of acres of South America, exchanges birthday greetings and gifts with Kim Jong Il and met with Kim\'s father, Kim Il Sung, before he passed. \r\n\r\nThe good news is the Bushes, the Republican party and in particular the conservative theocratic movement have a long history of supporting and working with this man and his group. Bush\'s Dad has given numerous speeches on his behalf. Bush 41 called him \'the man with the vision.\" He gave Bush\'s father a million dollars for his presidential library. He was a VIP guest at the Reagan Bush inaugural in \'81. The republican\'s worked with his group to push Bush\'s Faith Based Initiative. He owns the paper which is the voice of the conservative movement. Why he even sponsored W\'s inaugural prayer luncheon.\r\n\r\nWhy doesn\'t anyone ask what advice Bush has asked for or received from this man on how to handle North Korea? Could it be that since this man had predicted in the 70\'s that presidents would come to him for advice and power and since that is true, Bush doesn\'t want us to know it? Could it be the conservatives are afraid to let people know about their benefactor? There \'go to\' guy. He printed and distributed 30 million voter guides for Poppy in \'88. No doubt that without his billions pumped into the conservative movement over the last couple decades, the election of 2000 wouldn\'t have been close enough to go to the Supremes. Without him Bush wouldn\'t be president. Heck, they are so close, Bush just named this man\'s long time operative to head VISTA.\r\n\r\nOne problem is, we don\'t know who\'s side he is on...my guess is he is all the way with NK. He has called America \"Satan\'s harvest\"...\r\n\r\n\r\nCheck out the DIA documents after you read this...\r\nhttp://www.consortiumnews.com/2000/101100a.html\r\n\r\nlearn a little about his power...\r\nhttp://www.mediachannel.org/originals/moontranscript.shtml \r\n\r\nPlay the Nov. 12, 2002 show here.\r\nhttp://wfmu.org/playlists/DX\r\n\r\nListen to what his daughter-in-law has to say about the republican go to guy.\r\nhttp://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1000731 \r\n\r\nHere this tells about this man selling tickets to see George and Barbara Bush in Japan. He made millions from Bush\'s appearance, not to mention lots of face.\r\nhttp://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/55a/018.html\r\n\r\nHere you have the republicans working with and empowering him, surely he owes them a favor...maybe not he is the one who put THEM in power.\r\nhttp://www.au.org/churchstate/cs6013.htm\r\n\r\nlearn how he is perverting the UN beyond what the Bircher\'s er a, Republicans think. They helped empower him, the conservative movement helped him.\r\n\r\nIt\'s your country, It\'s you faith, it\'s your choice\r\nhttp://nomoonies.tripod.com/\r\nyour pal, \r\nSal\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-09 07:25:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2603,1,3443,'66.25.120.111','Sal','12@sal.com','','ooops, here is the UN link. He has married people in the UN building.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.globalpolicy.org/ngos/analysis/1101moon.htm\r\n\r\nhere this is a picture you can save and carry in your wallet. it\'s a picture of the go to guy hugging one of his enablers. This sums it up pretty good...\r\n\r\nhttp://www.freedomofmind.com/presskitarticles/parry1.htm','2003-05-09 07:36:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2604,1,3443,'206.71.125.73','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Who is helping to get food into NK now? Is there a way to help them (monetarily) and know that the food will get to the people who need it most? Is Kim so paranoid that he won\'t let humanitarian aid enter the country now? This sounds like a concentration camp, not a country.','2003-05-09 13:01:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2605,1,3452,'216.76.27.35','Mike Plaiss','Mike_Plaiss@kyfbins.com','','Decency is a virtue. It takes a great deal more character to be decent than to be cruel.\r\n\r\nRemember - \"All cruelty springs from weakness.\"\r\n','2003-05-09 13:45:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2606,1,3452,'207.170.32.124','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The left will not get it together until it changes on two major points. These points cover decency in economics and government. They are to a certain extent intertwined. There can be no decent politics without decent economics. Theft is indecent. Whether from the rich or the poor. The government hand on the socially outcast is also indecent. Gays and drug users among others.\r\n\r\n1. Socialism is dead. The more socialist the country the worse it\'s economic performance. The average black in America is doing better than the average Swede - economically. Cuba and North Korea are both economic and human rights basket cases. This is not an accident as we have learned from such failures as the USSR, Mao\'s China (the Red Book was fun until the results were in), and a host of lesser cases - such as Germany, France, and Sweden.\r\n\r\n2. Militant limited government democracy is the new foreign policy of the center. i.e. Militant extension of the Bill of Rights to the world.\r\n\r\n#1 will be hard to swallow. But to be relevant this will have to be done.\r\n\r\n#2 used to be the position of the left when the right was supporting so many cold war despots. Just because the right has adopted this position does not mean it is wrong.\r\n\r\nWhat points #1 & #2 do is to take economic policy and foreign policy out of the realm of politics (relatively). What is left is social policy. The original liberal/conservative divide.\r\n\r\nThe drug war needs to be cleaned up desperately. (a very good case for less government intervention). We need to keep an eye on the Santorums in government, the Bill Bennetts (I don\'t care what beliefs they have as long as they don\'t get them enacted into law).\r\n\r\nThe center in America is for the most part libertarian. The left will have to move in that direction if it wants to remain viable.\r\n','2003-05-09 14:03:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2607,1,3443,'65.95.83.125','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','* BING * Got it in one, Dave. \r\n\r\nNK is one giant concentration camp. Those residents who live in concentration camps within NK face harsher conditions, but the fundamentale logic of their existence is no different.','2003-05-09 14:25:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2608,1,3439,'204.252.232.3','Roux','rouxdsla@yahoo.com','','\"Liberals have perfectly good policies\"\r\n\r\nNot really. But what liberals seem to miss is that policies don\'t get things done. It takes people and leadership and conservatives know this to be true.\r\n\r\nBTW. Most of the Democratic party so called leaders are just demogogue\'s and more interested in power and personal gain than in actually implementing any of their wrong headed policies.','2003-05-09 14:25:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2609,1,3452,'66.41.150.17','Guy H.','cdguy@attbi.com','','If God, being the most powerful Being that exists, had wanted your neighbor to be the way you think he should be, he would have made him that way. If you recognize that God did not make your neighbor to your liking, then you’ve made the first step towards humility. The final step in humility? Accepting your neighbor as God made him to be.','2003-05-09 14:29:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2610,1,3452,'199.50.29.41','George','ghjong@yahoo.com','','Well, here\'s my chance at being decent. I suppose I\'m a conservative, so here\'s my take on one of our big failures.\r\n\r\nFor far too long, conservatives were too keen to try to preserve democracy in America by undermining it abroad, often with terrible results. Installing and backing, Pinochet left thousands dead, countless more terrified and in grief. I\'ll never understand how conservatives can justify this with, \"But he brought about an economic revival!\" To those, I would ask, how much money would you be willing to sacrifice your family members for? For what level of GDP growth and inflation would you let your father be led off into the night, blindfolded?\r\n\r\nThese moral compromises of the Cold War were perhaps justified - perhaps! - but they are nevertheless a deep stain on our national honor. \r\n\r\nIt is this lesson which led to my complete support for the war in Iraq, and it is this lesson which leads me to despair at the administration\'s seemingly half-hearted attempts at nation-building in its aftermath. \r\n\r\nNow, where are the Krispy Kremes?\r\n\r\n','2003-05-09 14:32:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2611,1,3439,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Roux:\r\n\r\nAs opposed to...???\r\n\r\nI\'ll refer you to \"Arrogant Capital\" by that well-known liberal Kevin Phillips.\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-09 15:07:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2612,1,3439,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Oh...can\'t resist this...that 30-year mortgage on your house?? Liberal policy. The (relatively) clean air outside your window this morning...ditto. The state university and the medical school your doctor went to...but I go on...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-09 15:10:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2613,1,3454,'64.91.163.87','Jay Solo','jaysolo@mindspring.com','http://jaysolo.blogspot.com','Intriguing. I can\'t wait to see the rest...','2003-05-09 17:08:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2614,1,3454,'65.95.83.125','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','No. it\'s one of the basic definitions of statism. I think we have a terminology problem here, because some of the terms you use have very specific political philosophy meanings that clash with the ones you\'re giving them.\r\n\r\nThe result puts cracks all over your theses.\r\n\r\nClassical Liberalism, which the neocon political view approaches very closely, is exactly the reverse of what you describe; a \"not for the government to pick winners or impose its conception of the good\" philosophy. No Democrat I can think of is a classical liberal, or anything close. It IS a widely accepted political philosophy term, and it means something very specific that has no relationship to Tip O\'Neil.\r\n\r\nThe moral angle of enforcing ideals of human behaviour is part of any healthy polis, but is given special emphasis by the people political philosophy knows as \"Classical Conservatives.\" To make life even more fun, the American version of that species is very different from the European version because it defends/conserves a fundamentally liberal (as in, Classical Liberal) social order. If you\'re going to crawl into their heads effectively, that psychic cleavage is an important starting point.\r\n\r\nSo, the GOP is made up of classical liberals, AND classical conservatives. Some people use \"economic concservative\" and \"social conservative\" as shorthand.\r\n\r\nWhat keeps them together is the common perception that statist leftism is the problem. CLs see it as a drag on the economy, prone to bloat and abuses of authority, and given powers by its size that attract corruption. CCs see it as a directly hostile force attacking their values and communities. Some wish to remove the state and leave individual communities to govern themselves in local wisdom, other CCs have no problem with these powers but would use them differently. Romantic tendencies are definitely stronger in the CC camp, but the match is not always true. What is true, is that Romanticism as a philosophy is very rare on the CL side.\r\n\r\nThis all needs to be sorted out before classifying the right-wing side of American politics, and some of the arguments do need to be presented more fairly. The cleavages on the Left are equally real, of course, and will no doubt get their own treatment.\r\n\r\nAlso, if you\'re going to use a 2x2 matrix structure, shouldn\'t you tell us the axes?\r\n\r\nAL: \"In essence, GOP policies are aimed at using the power of the State to reward those who they think should be rewarded and enforce their ideals of human behavior.. one of the basic definitions of liberalism, no?\"','2003-05-09 17:10:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2615,1,3446,'160.81.221.42','DSmith','dsmith@tnor.org','http://tnor.org/blog/','Jeff said:\r\nThe radical left wants to control our political views while the radical right wants to control our social views. \r\n\r\nThen linden said:\r\nI\'m not exactly sure what you\'ve classified as constituting \"political views\" as opposed to \"social views\", but I would maintain that both sides want to control the social and the political through state coercion. They both desire (imo) much too high degrees of state control of the individual.\r\n\r\nI think I would put it (as long as we\'re playing the \"there are two kinds of people...\" game) that the radical Left believes in complete State control of your money (means of production, affirmative action, taxation as \"social policy\", etc.), but no State control of your body (drugs, sex, abortion, etc.). The radical Right wants complete State control of your body, but no State control of your money. They both are fully happy with State control of other things if it advances their basic agendas.\r\n\r\nThe individualists don\'t want any more State control than can be helped. I think the Founding Fathers would say \"a pox on both your houses!\"\r\n','2003-05-09 17:58:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2616,1,3454,'138.133.17.5','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Joe: You\'re absolutely right that I\'ve appropriated terms and probably should have either explained what I was doing more fully or used other terms.\r\n\r\nBut I think you\'re completely wrong when you define the right wing of U.S. politics as an admixture of \'Classical Liberals\' in the Lockean sense and \'Classical Conservatives\' a la Montesquieu. That grouping would be what I was going to classify as \'Classical Conservatives\'.\r\n\r\nI could replace the term \'Romantic Conservatives\' with \'Statist Conservatives\', but that misses the notion I\'m trying to get across. \r\n\r\nThe core ideologies of the dominant wing of the GOP are based in fantasies of what America was. And the policies they connect to them have a symbolic - hence Romantic - connection to their ideologies.\r\n\r\nThis process closely parallels the fantasy ideology of the Islamists, and the largely symbolic means that they have attempted to use to attain them.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-09 18:02:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2617,1,3454,'204.252.232.3','Roux','rouxdsla@yahoo.com','','\"give tax breaks and shift policies in favor of big businesses and big investors, thereby accelerating the concentration of economic power – which means shuttering the small businesses as they go under.\"\r\n\r\nWhere in GOP policy do you see this?\r\n\r\nThe president\'s tax plan is to lower income taxes for all brackets and generally conservatives are for less gov\'t control/interference in people\'s lives.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-09 18:03:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2618,1,3454,'207.170.32.124','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Joe,\r\n\r\n I was going to chime in here but you have said it so much better than I could.\r\n\r\n I think the real fracture point in politics in America today is what I call the radical center. You alluded to this when you mentioned statism.\r\n\r\n The radical center says out of my bedroom and out of my wallet. \r\n\r\n On either side of this center you have the statist: the country will not work properly without a lot of government intervention in xxxxxx. What xxxxxx is depends on whether you are right or left. \r\n\r\n My thesis is that the socialist left is dying. That leaves the liberals and conservatives - we are back to the original meaning of those terms since socialism is no longer viable for the left.\r\n\r\nThe real liberals of the future will be quite close to what we call today libertarians. The foreign policy will be agressively limited government militant democrat.\r\n\r\nWhat will be left is the fight over things like drug prohibition, gay rights, women\'s rights, etc. Economics and foreign policy will be argued at the margins as in the cold war but major disagreements will not appear.\r\n\r\nIn essence for the term of the war against the militant nihilists we will have a national unity government. Similar to what was had during the cold war. \r\n\r\nYou can see this in faint outline because people are calling for governmental fiscal discipline with an aggressively democratic (no more despots) foreign policy.\r\n\r\nThe other good point is that Santorum got relatively little traction for his calls to put gays under the thumb of the law. It shows we are learning the lessons of Germany 1933 - 45 and Jim Crow America.\r\n\r\nWhich means I expect the liberals to be ascendant for the next 50 to 100 years. ','2003-05-09 18:08:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2619,1,3454,'207.170.32.124','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The socialist left and the cultural conservative right are both romantic.\r\n\r\nThe cultural conservatives want what never was, the socialists want what never will be.\r\n\r\nThat is why they are statists. What they want does not arise out of the natural experience of men/women.\r\n\r\nThe politics of the future will revolve around the libertarian middle - the \"leave me alone\" guys. The cultural conservatives to a certain extent can live with them. After all it was Jesus who said: \"let he who is without sin....\". \r\n\r\nThe socialists absolutely cannot live without state intervention.\r\n\r\nWhat you see now in terms of the long march through the system is the peak of socialism/Marxism. They are having trouble gathering new recruits. Fox TV\'s rise is a harbinger.','2003-05-09 18:21:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2620,1,3452,'207.170.32.124','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Who knows what the real administration policy is? The thought that they can leave Iraq after installing it\'s elected government is nutso.\r\n\r\nIt isn\'t the first election that counts it\'s the second.\r\n\r\nTime will tell what is actually meant by \"leave\".','2003-05-09 18:31:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2621,1,3454,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','M. Simon:\r\n\r\n\"The socialist left and the cultural conservative right are both romantic.\r\n\r\nThe cultural conservatives want what never was, the socialists want what never will be.\r\n\r\nThat is why they are statists. What they want does not arise out of the natural experience of men/women.\" Yes!! Abso-damn-lutely right.\r\n\r\nMy only quibble is that I would find other adjectives than \'socialist\' and \'cultural\'; the issues blur past those two descriptions...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-09 18:35:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2622,1,3446,'172.165.179.215','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','Actually, DSmith, I would argue that the Radical Left wants complete state control of the body as well: national health care. I believe that every American should be assured access to health care regardless of the ability to pay, but I don\'t believe in government-administered papsmears or colonoscopies. We don\'t want the government looking into our public library use or tapping our phones, so why do we want the government to know everything about our health and even administer to it.\r\n\r\nRegarding the Radical Right and state control of money, I suspect that neither the left or right extremes are beneficial. What I mean is that the adoption of laissez faire economics could be just as oppressive as state control.','2003-05-09 18:43:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2623,1,3454,'66.182.132.51','Nathan Lott','ndlott@juno.com','http://nathanlott.blogspot.com','AL:\r\n\r\nSo, with four dominant ideologies and only two parties, what is the glue that holds the parties together? \r\n\r\nMore specifically, do variant ideologies coalesce into a party (as calculated compromise) or emerge from within as time changes? I surmise both—that the makeup of the Democratic and Republican parties as they now exist are the result of waves of coalescence and divergence.\r\n\r\nI also suspect that ideological incoherence in each party (particularly ideologically indefensible policy-making) often results when leaders attempt to retain some group that coalesced with the party in the past for a now-irrelevant reason. \r\n\r\nThe two-party system is so entrenched, that it is easier to imagine evolution within the parties (and party-swapping by voters) than the emergence of a new predominant party. (For similar reasons, long-standing third parties (libertarians, socialists) tend to be very ideological.) \r\n\r\nSo, I suppose I\'m inviting you to speculate on how the makeup of each party may shift in the future and how the parties will shift focus in order to retain unity. \r\n','2003-05-09 19:16:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2624,1,3446,'172.165.179.215','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','Both extremes employ different tactics (whether based on prejudice, ideology (religion, Marxism), or a romantic notion of \"how things should be\") to arrive at the same results: complete state control of the mind, body and economics of a country. This always, without fail, produces horror and degradation.\r\n\r\nNo wonder so many people seem to have dropped out of the election/voting process/active politics. There isn\'t a party that really represents the beliefs of the majority of the people. Whether this is good or bad.... A third party of moderates? Maybe this is what the Dems will or should become since democratic socialism is not performing well in this country. The more and more I think about it the more and more I believe Clinton completely blew it (no pun intended) during his presidency.','2003-05-09 19:17:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2625,1,3439,'64.58.12.42','Gary Farber','gfarber@savvy.com','http://amygdala.blogspot.com','I just read and find. And, oh, yeah, think. \r\n\r\nThe periodic table of dessert is particularly delicious, and from a long time friend, so I\'m particuarly proud. It\'s so sniffable, and lickable, and all that there. One finds it with good taste. ','2003-05-09 19:21:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2626,1,3454,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Nathan:\r\n\r\nI tend to think of the parties more as instutional frameworks...of activits, fundraisers, and electoral technicians than as ideological associations.\r\n\r\nImagine a semi-permanent, ideology-less infrastructure with a constantly changing ideological scrim in front of it.\r\n\r\nLet me think about this a little more...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-09 19:36:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2627,1,3454,'12.248.97.94','Dick Thompson','nowilliam@attbi.com','','I like your 2x2 analysis and look forward to the future segments, but I wish you would put a little more explicit definition ito your four categories, especially Romantic and Classical. It seems that Romantic only has the connotation of fantasy for you, where historically it has glorified the individual and the \"folk\". Fascism is the usual exemplar of Romantic politics.','2003-05-09 19:41:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2628,1,3454,'129.113.130.87','Michael Brazier','mdbrazier@juno.com','','A.L. -- there really are romantic conservatives in American politics; Patrick Buchanan and Trent Lott both wish to restore an imagined past. But they are not the dominant wing of the GOP; they are tolerated and sometimes rebuked.\r\n\r\nAlso, the \"fantasy\" you describe is, in fact, the dream world of classic liberals -- the world that Locke and Montesquieu would have thought ideal. If that is \"romantic\", what would you consider classical?','2003-05-09 20:17:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2629,1,3454,'198.26.123.36','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','A.L.\r\n\r\nRepeat after me, \"The Republicans and conservatives are not monolithic.\" Neo-cons, Paleo-cons, and hyphenated cons of every sort are all resident in the Republican party. \r\n\r\nLike most liberals you fixate on the social conservatives -- you call them \"romantic\" --because they are your boogie men.\r\n\r\nJerry Pournelle\'s two axis political model has been out there for years and works better than the one you posit. Statism versus rationalism were the axis and this is the link:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.baen.com/chapters/axes.htm\r\n\r\nPoint in fact, the real problem in American politics today is that National Democrats are monolithic. And on issues of American national security they are what California Republicans are to abortion -- hopeless losers.\r\n\r\nIt also doesn\'t help that Modern Democrats go insane when they are out of power.\r\n\r\nThe problem is that the Parties are no longer the place where factions work out who is going to be the candidate for the party. The emergence of primaries made moneymen, pollsters and the D.C. gate keepers far more important than the party rank and file.\r\n\r\nThe result is the parties are becoming shrinking mono-cultures driven by money and small vote count primaries. \r\n\r\nThis is surprisingly less of a problem for Republicans than the Democrats for two reasons. \r\n\r\nFirst, because Republicans have a large base of small \"subscription\" contributors that balance the \"deep pockets,\" so they have a wider base of people candidates need to be responsible too. Small businessmen, other than trial lawyers, are overwhelmingly Republican and this is where it shows.\r\n\r\nDemocrats, OTOH, are disproportionately dependent in the primaries on a few deep pockets who are to the left of the party base, let alone the general voting public. This has shown up in Lieberman\'s fundraising, specifically in its lack.\r\n\r\nThe second reason Republicans are less monoculture is due to two accidents of leadership. The Republicans bottomed out in 1992 and have since lucked out with two major party building national leaders. Newt Gingrich and George W. Bush are both once a generation national party builders and they literally showed up back to back.\r\n\r\nDemocrats on the other hand had President Clinton, who destroyed the Congressional wing of the party. \r\n\r\nNow the Democrats have nothing and the central issue in national politics is the one issue this generation of National Democratics cannot engage on. 9/11 was a searing paradigm shift in American culture that the Democrats are on the wrong side of, I just don\'t see them being competative for the Presidency until 2016 at the earliest.\r\n','2003-05-09 22:26:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2630,1,3454,'138.133.17.5','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Trent:\r\n\r\nI\'d never suggest that \"all Republicans are the same\" any more that I think you\'re suggesting that \"all Democrats are the same\". I do think that it\'s useful to talk about commonalities and themes of complex systems, rather than simply pointing out that they\'re complex.\r\n\r\nAnd I think that there are themes within modern American politics which need to be talked about; and it\'s only by a kind of gross oversimplification that we can do so. That doesn\'t mean that the oversimplifications can\'t be useful, or that we shouldn;t be mindful of what they are.\r\n\r\nAs far as the specific electoral analsyis you present...no competitive Dems until 2016...I thik that if you bet heavily on that you & your family will be eating a lot less well than you are today.\r\n\r\nPart of what\'s going on...part of the process in which I\'m a molecule...is that a lot of liberals are uncomfortable with the gross simplifications that represent our wing of politics, and we\'re scratching around for new ones.\r\n\r\nWhen we find them, I think they will be very powerful.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-09 22:58:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2631,1,3452,'12.15.133.9','James','james@iconics.com','','A major cause for the effacing of the borders between \"wrong in principle\" and \"bad for you\" is cost. \"Bad for you\" actions have an inherent cost associated with them. The left generaly wants society to pay these costs, while the right wants the individual to pay the cost. In depending on the action, the right ends up looking like an ogre. As politcal cover, the right moves \"Bad for you\" to \"wrong in principle\".','2003-05-09 23:14:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2632,1,3454,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Just followed Trent\'s link, went over and looked at the Pournelle article. Interesting. Close to what I\'ve been thinking about, but different enough to be v. damn useful.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-09 23:55:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2633,1,3453,'216.17.147.109','ROBI','rsen@department13.com','','I enjoyed your tech central article and thought people might like the link to the actual article on *netwar.','2003-05-10 00:32:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2634,1,3452,'68.194.193.162','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','I\'ve expanded on these thoughts in a fresh essay just posted to the Palace, at the Curmudgeon\'s Corner. Click here.','2003-05-10 00:39:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2635,1,3443,'148.78.243.51','Kathleen','kdogsnkids@netscape.net','','I wouldn\'t let Kim Il raise a dog. And he\'s in charge of a country. And the country is dying.\r\n\r\nI read this about NK and cry, too. And become enraged. That NUT, Kim Il, says he\'s going to nuke us. And his people - even his Army - they\'re all starving to death.\r\n\r\nHere\'s my vote for his assassination, and the liberation of North Korea.','2003-05-10 01:20:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2636,1,3447,'66.122.50.49','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','Maxim,\r\n\r\nYou make some good points, but as a clear eyed analyst you should recognize that many Americans will not consider themselves \"deep\" friends of Germany for a while and friends at any level of France for the rest of their lives. While Old Europe may be nearer in history and economics to the US than New Europe, New Europe is closer to the US in its love of liberty for themselves and others than is old Europe. Rumsfeld and the US will not let Poland fail because the success of it and the rest of new Europe is too important as a counterbalance to the hostile trends developing in Old Europe.\r\n\r\nFrance did too many things to stab us in the back in this war. We will be inclined to believe \"absurd conspiracies\" about them till proven untrue. The burden of proof has shifted to them.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-10 02:18:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2637,1,3452,'172.159.235.170','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','\"It is this lesson which led to my complete support for the war in Iraq, and it is this lesson which leads me to despair at the administration\'s seemingly half-hearted attempts at nation-building in its aftermath.\"You\'re kidding, right? It\'s only been a couple weeks at most that we\'ve been in the country. I strongly suspect we\'ll have troops stationed in Iraq for the next fifty years as in Germany and Japan.','2003-05-10 04:43:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2638,1,3454,'68.49.135.64','David Foster','photoncourier@yahoo.com','http://photoncourier.blogspot.com','Interesting model...but it\'s important to recognize that the economy doesn\'t consist only of Fortune 500 corporations on the one hand and mom-and-pop stores on the other. There are thousands and thousands of businesses in the range of, say, 50 to 1000 employees. Some are private, some are public. They represent both an important part of the economy, a key vehicle for social mobility, and a significant source of innovation. My perception is that many Republican initiatives are directed toward assisting these midrange businesses, more than either of the ends of the spectrum.','2003-05-10 05:04:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2639,1,3454,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','David -\r\n\r\nCould you suggest some specific ones??\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-10 05:13:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2640,1,3454,'208.186.193.174','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','>As far as the specific electoral analsyis you \r\n>present...no competitive Dems until 2016...I \r\n>think that if you bet heavily on that you & your \r\n>family will be eating a lot less well than you \r\n>are today.\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n\r\nI think differently. \r\n\r\nRepublicans have their political money contributions split about 52-54/48-46 percent between big money bags and their mailing list subscription small contributors. The Religious Right has about 15% of the vote over all in Republican primaries and more in Southern states, but they are not the deep pockets of the national party. This means over all the Republicans are a coalition of factions rather than a group of factions dominated and ruled by a single faction.\r\n\r\nDemocrats as a party are dominated by a hard left faction that has about 15% of the primary vote and over 50% of the money in the party. \r\n\r\nThis ruling faction is nothing so much as a cross between 1940\'s Trotsky-ites (sp?) and \"Jeffersonians\" as described by Mead. They are the mind children of the people Truman ran out of the Democratic Party in 1946 and they came back to power in 1972-74 with the McGovern primary victory and the aftermath of Watergate.\r\n\r\nThe dominant Democratic faction is opposed to nationalism, any nationalism and most especially American nationalism and the ordered liberty that arises from it. \r\n\r\nThere can be for them no \"American Exceptionalism\" in any sense of the word for them. Nor can their be federalism or anything outside the USA. They are big central government statists who are functional isolationists.\r\n\r\nAll this means Democrats are dead and damned because they have given up on America.\r\n\r\nIn order to win nationally, or for State wide Federal office, all a Republican has to do is point out who will be coming in with a winning Democratic candidate, however strong his national security credentials. The missed opportunities to grab Osama Bin Laden, to stop South Korea from funding North Korean nukes, Somalia, and Clinton\'s sales of secrets to China will all be hung out like banners.\r\n\r\nThe Democats already see losing four seats in the Senate in 2004. \r\n\r\nThat is their best case scenario.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-10 06:58:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2641,1,3456,'68.66.195.90','harhar','harhar51@yahoo.com','','Nice!! I agree. Flexibility and ability to adapt to unforseen changes in the plan/vision at the lower levels kinda thing. Pretty much why capitalism is superior to communism/socialism. Great in ideal terms but poor in real conditions vs. ok in ideal terms but better in real conditions. Although too far to the \"open-source\" side has its problems also. Gotta have some goals or something specific to work towards.','2003-05-10 12:35:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2642,1,3453,'68.66.195.90','harhar','harhar51@yahoo.com','','Limeys did it in the US during WWII before Pearl Harbor. ','2003-05-10 12:40:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2643,1,3452,'67.35.117.95','Excitableboy','dhalsted@bellsouth.net','',' I very much enjoyed your essay on decency in politics. However, two qubbles:\r\n 1. I cannot agree that because leftists (or others) believe there are no absolutes in morality, they are without a moral foundation. It seems to me that in politics the options are more often better-or-worse than good-versus-evil, and the ability to distinguish shades of grey is more useful than the compulsion to define everything as black or white. I seem to hear someone screaming about relativism and slippery slopes, so let me just say that often the slope seems slippery when you can\'t see the steps. The abilty to make distinctions, weigh options, predict consequences, and make reasonable decisions is the foundation of my morality, and, I believe, of everyone who hasn\'t suurendered his-or-her mind to some dogma.\r\n 2. Why is it that so many conservatives refuse to recognize the differences between liberalism and socialism, communism, anarchism, or any other political philosophy to the left of their own? It almost seems that they want to demonize liberalism by intentionally confusing it with other ideologies, rather than opposing it with rational argument. Not very decent of them, is it? ','2003-05-10 18:12:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2644,1,3452,'172.129.196.169','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','\" I cannot agree that because leftists (or others) believe there are no absolutes in morality, they are without a moral foundation.\"\r\n\r\nActually, I think leftists do sometimes take a very moral absolutist view of things. A good example of this would probably be Chomsky.','2003-05-10 18:26:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2645,1,3454,'172.129.196.169','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','Trent, South Korea funded North Korea\'s nukes? Huh?\r\n\r\n\"The Democats already see losing four seats in the Senate in 2004.\"\r\n\r\nWhere did you hear this? Also, I would like to join the Democats. ','2003-05-10 18:32:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2646,1,3454,'4.61.240.183','Ari Tai','aritai@hotmail.com','','Your numbers don\'t add up. There are more small businesses than ever since the 1920s move from the farms to the cities (considering the family farm as a business). \r\n\r\nThese are sole-proprietor and limited partnerships, and they employ the majority of the people - where these business owners pay the majority of the taxes (as personal income, vs business tax). And the trend continues. These are the first people to hire and the first to lay off. \r\n\r\nThey have the largest single lump political power (shear votes as an interest group, larger than the second voter block in the unions). And they are the ones who\'s average $100 contribution to the GOP makes the party so formidable wrt hard money contributions. \r\n\r\nIt\'s the DNC that has to rely on narrow special interest groups, the fat-cats & corporate (lawyers & those co-dependent on their regulators) to maximally contribute, and even then they can\'t touch what the small $$ contributors to the GOP add up to.','2003-05-10 20:01:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2647,1,3456,'129.113.130.87','Michael Brazier','mdbrazier@juno.com','','The guru of open-source software, Eric S. Raymond, drew exactly this antithesis in \"The Cathedral and the Bazaar\": the cathedral, a grand work of art built from a single fixed design, against the bazaar, a host of competing designers.\r\n\r\nBut ... as far as I can tell, the antithesis isn\'t useful in the field of US politics. Who are the cathedral builders today? Where are the people who are proposing a grand design for all society, and are ready to trim and stretch humanity to fit it? Not even the far Left qualifies -- they\'d trim and stretch humanity in a heartbeat, but they haven\'t a grand design to propose.\r\n','2003-05-10 20:36:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2648,1,3461,'205.188.209.7','button','button@nospam.com','','Yes, I\'ve been over to The Hasidic Rebel, and it looks like it could be interesting, so I recorded his URL, and will drop in on him again to see what\'s happening over there.\r\n\r\nIt might interest you to know that Larry Yudelman has established a special Yossi Klein Halevi Watch on his weblog with its own special URL. Because of the war situation going on with Iraq, I haven\'t had time to keep track of it. To begin with, I had no idea what this was all about, but bookmarked it because Larry seemed to think it was important. So, without further adue, if you want to look into it, here\'s Larry\'s URL for it:\r\n\r\n*YOSSI KLEIN HALEVI WATCH*\r\n\r\nI drop in on Larry once in a while on an irregular basis. Here\'s Larry Yudelman\'s weblog URL, in case you don\'t have it already. Check him out, too, when you have a spare moment:\r\n\r\n*YudelLine*\r\n\r\nEnjoy!\r\n\r\n','2003-05-10 22:40:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2649,1,3454,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Ari:\r\n\r\nI\'m certainly not mounting a defense of the DNC on these pages. But I\'ll suggest that you dig a bit into the numbers.\r\n\r\n\"The proportion of all firms that are small was virtually unchanged in the 1990s, while small businesses’ static share of total employment declined slightly over this period. Small firms employed about 51 percent of workers in the private sector economy in 1998, a slight decline from their 54 percent share in 1990; this share changed less than one percent in any one year over the 1990–1998 period (Table A.3.) The small business share in 1999 is believed to have remained at about 51 percent. The decline in the share of small firm employment may be the result of small firms growing into large firms and/or of a general increase in entry barriers that would adversely affect the viability of new small business ventures, or of small firms becoming more capital-intensive and relying less on labor.\" from http://www.sba.gov/advo/stats/stateofsb99_00.pdf.\r\n\r\nThere are a bunch of bad (conflicting, unclear) stats out there on this, but this one seems to be fairly telling.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-10 23:23:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2650,1,3462,'24.98.42.193','Marla','ratched@NOSPAM.happyvalleyasylum.com','http://www.happyvalleyasylum.com/ratched/','Thank you very much. I find the topic of TDP fascinating, because of the possibilities it presents. It is possible that with investment in technologies such as TDP, hydrogen fuel-cells, and solar-, hydro-, and wind-power, that we can build a reasonable program for avoiding fossil fuel depletion.','2003-05-10 23:38:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2651,1,3454,'24.98.42.193','Marla','ratched@NOSPAM.happyvalleyasylum.com','http://www.happyvalleyasylum.com/ratched/','You may find the *Political Compass* site interesting. If you take the quiz offered, you can see where you fall on their two-axis representation of the American political spectrum. I happen to think that their compass is a reasonably fair representation of the common clusters by ideology.','2003-05-11 03:13:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2652,1,3454,'68.49.135.64','David Foster','photoncourier@yahoo.com','http://photoncourier.blogspot.com','AL...the Republican initiatives I had in mind are the dividend tax cut, the inheritance tax elimination, and most especially tort reform.','2003-05-11 04:53:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2653,1,3461,'68.161.69.57','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','I was wondering what happened to Larry. I loved his Jewish Communication Network, was very sorry to see that site go down the tubes. It was the first large commerical Jewish website and had great commentary and news.\r\n\r\nThen he had a blog that stopped updating last year and then I lost track of him. Thanks for the tip!','2003-05-11 06:18:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2654,1,3456,'68.161.69.57','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Have you read Christopher Alexander?','2003-05-11 08:19:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2655,1,3456,'68.161.69.57','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','And Jane Jacobs of course.','2003-05-11 08:20:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2656,1,3439,'68.161.69.57','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','I forgot who pointed me to this, but don\'t go here unless you can block out 2-3 hours to browse around:\r\nthe Wooden Periodic Table Table','2003-05-11 09:09:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2657,1,3462,'216.254.81.130','A Chemist','anon@anon.com','','I was asonished by the Discover Magazine story. Sounds like it\'s real.\r\n\r\n*i dislike nation-based terrorism as well, but is it our job to stop terroists in Azerbaijan? is it our job to stop them in tibet, or everywhere terrorist groups fight for the souvereighnity of their nation/ethnic-group?\r\nare we capable to wage such an endless, and in fact not productive war?
\r\nYes, it is our job to destroy terrorists everywhere, even (in due time) those who only operate within a particular set of borders. Organized and sustained terrorism by one faction in a conflict must result in the end of that faction either through force, co-option or isolation (imprisonment or exile). To end the threat of terrorism will take, as it took with piracy, a sustained and worldwide effort to stamp it out. (And as with piracy, it can never be 100% successful, but can be close enough to make terrorism a minor problem rather than an existential threat.)\r\n\r\nAre we capable of doing this? I believe that we are. It will take a generation, but it can be done, and I believe that the US, with allies, will stamp out terrorism. We simply cannot afford not to.\r\n','2003-05-14 18:22:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2740,1,3474,'134.114.14.183','Lancer','lance.blyth@nau.edu','','The irony here is that the continual desire to identify with suffering and oppression in order to justify a privileged position that marks the current Democratic Left now is exactly what started the New Left in the 1960s.\r\n\r\nFollowing Paul Berman\'s essay, the New Leftists were raised on their parent\'s stories of repression, suffering, and resistance and were refused leadership roles by the left because they had not suffered. \r\n\r\nSo the New Left, raised in comfortable and affluent urban and suburban settings, set out to find oppressed and suffering people to identify with, since they themselves had suffered embarrisingly little repression. \r\n\r\nAnd they found them in Selma. And in Cuba. And in Vietnam. And in Central America. But the concern of the Democratic Left, the old New Left, was never solely for these people, but also for themselves. And so it remains today.\r\n\r\nA friend of mine, reflecting on why the anti-war movement was such a complete failure, said it all. \"Most people,\" he reflected, \"were in it to feel better about themselves.\" Exactly.','2003-05-14 18:27:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2741,1,3474,'138.133.17.8','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Actually, I\'d differ slightly with Lancer, in my view, Selma and the subsequent actions - the Civil Rights movement and the Great Society - was the triumph of the Old Left here in the U.S.\r\n\r\nThe New Left grew up in the shadow of those great achievements.\r\n\r\nAnd for those who doubt they were achievements, remeber that in the early 1960\'s rural American children had hunger diseases. Today they have obesity diseases...not good, but a damn site better.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-14 19:02:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2742,1,3457,'217.185.237.15','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\'This statement makes no sense.\'\r\n\r\nit does. and your answer shows _how_ important it is to seperate diffenrent types of \'terrorism\'. the word terrorism is very vague.\r\na clear definition of _what_ terrorism is is needed, and it is needed to seperate differend types of terrorism. and THEN you can analyse which terrorism is a can be fought which way.\r\n\r\n\'Yes, it is our job to destroy terrorists everywhere, even (in due time) those who only operate within a particular set of borders. Organized and sustained terrorism by one faction in a conflict must result in the end of that faction either through force, co-option or isolation (imprisonment or exile). [..] Are we capable of doing this? I believe that we are.\'\r\n\r\nthat\'s what you think?\r\nokay, have fun trying what generations of best trained anti-terror experts and years of repressen never could handle.\r\n\r\nhave fun to \'end\' the faction of katholics in ireland and imprison or exile the whole iland to stop IRA\'s terror.\r\ntry what london tryed in more than 100 years without any success. let your soldiers die in ireland. is this what you think of when you talk of \'imprisoning\' and \'destroying a threat to the US\'?\r\nhave fun in Nagorno Karabakh to prevent further terrorist attacks there you (i assume) never heard of.\r\ntry what israelis are now trying since the 50\'s in a bloody costly fight.\r\ntry to face problems the french faced in algeria, the british in israel when jewish-nationalists terrorized them - and let the british fail.\r\nis this what you want? a bloody war in Nagorno Karabakh a region nearly no one in the US ever heard from? or an endless fight in palestine to \'smoke them out\'?\r\nokay, try whatever you want to try, but you are warned. and europe will go on warning you, because riding the US in a bloody endless war in Nagorno Karabakh or elsewhere against an enemy that always hides never is seen and always gets stronger the more you beat him will ride the western world in crisis - maybe in a bloody crisis.\r\nthis is not what i want. and i can\'t imagine this is what the US wants. go out to your high-schools, ask the students if they are willing to thei in Nagorno Karabakh or elsewhere to fight a problem that never was your\'s.\r\n\r\nshourly we should defend also national terrorism, surly we should be aware of threats everywhere, but it is not our job to defend azerbaijans in Nagorno Karabakh.\r\n\r\n\'I strongly believe that Europe and many Europeans based their anti-war stance not on the facts of the case\'\r\n\r\ni strongy believe the absolute opposite. i do not want to discuss if it was right/not right to wage a war there. but be aware that europeans thought a lot before their decision of opposing this war, and they had good reasons.\r\nif they where convinced of a real threat from huge amounts of wmd\'s, perhaps even nuclear weapons, then they would have reactet different. but they wheren\'t convienced, and as you see their sceptism was right, because there wasn\'t a real threat in pre-war times which could have convienced the europeans of waging this war.\r\n\r\n\'The UN, however, since the end of the Cold War has been speeding its own demise by proving itself imcompetent\'\r\n\r\nbe aware that the UN is only as strong as their members wants them to be.\r\ni totally agree: the idea of UN peacekeeping troops never was a good one, especially when none of the western countries supportet it.\r\nit is verly obvious that peacekeeping troops coming from ghana or senegal are not _very_ good in training and are not _very_ experienced in action.\r\nbut the UN showed it COMPETENCE several times, their weapons-inspectors showed how reliable and how experienced and professional they are, and that they are able to get results even under hardest circumstances.\r\ntheir fugitive progamm showed how powerful this international organisation can help, and their administration for cultural means showed how positive this international efforts can be.\r\n','2003-05-14 19:56:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2743,1,3457,'217.185.237.24','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\'ask the students if they are willing to thei in Nagorno Karabakh or elsewhere to fight a problem that never was your\'s.\'\r\n\r\nperhaps this is not undersandable because of a speiiling problem here...\r\n\r\nit has to be \'..die in Nagorno Karabakh..\'\r\n\r\ni think i have to clean my keyboard, i can\'t imagine i wrote this... ;)','2003-05-14 20:02:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2744,1,3457,'217.185.237.24','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\'ask the students if they are willing to thei in Nagorno Karabakh or elsewhere to fight a problem that never was your\'s.\'\r\n\r\nperhaps this is not understandable because of a spelling problem here...\r\n\r\nit has to be \'..die in Nagorno Karabakh..\'\r\n\r\ni think i have to clean my keyboard, i can\'t imagine i wrote this... ;)','2003-05-14 20:03:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2745,1,3475,'65.95.83.125','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','The LAST thing communism is, is equal. Not even in misery. Party cadres are always a cut above - essentially, all it does is substitute political power for currency. Failure to understand this is an essential failure to understand Communism in any of its forms. Hmm, maybe Michael Totten was right.\r\n\r\nSub-titling \"unequal/open\" as \"Dickens\" without a similar pejorative up above doesn\'t foster serious debate. Not to mention the issue Francis Poretto raises re: equality. You can\'t dispense with the question \"what kind of equality\" when that IS a key question behind your matrix. To dispense with such an important argument and then go on to divide its 2 halves into \"equal/unequal\" is just rhetorical sleight of hand used to highjack the term.\r\n\r\nDifficult to hold a serious debate on foundations this rickety. This matrix needs a serious rethink.','2003-05-14 20:14:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2746,1,3475,'138.133.17.5','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Joe, did you read this?? \"The Socialist ideal. Soviet Russia, in the imaginations of its supporters. In reality, Pol Pot\'s Cambodia probably would stand as a good (that can\'t be the right word in this context) example\"\r\n\r\n(emphasis added)...want to reread and think through your response??\r\n\r\nI don\'t consider Dickensian to be a loaded term, if it is to you and others, I\'ll find one less loaded to describe a highly class-oriented society.\r\n\r\nYou raise a legitimate issue re equality; the distinction between the two types is significant. But I\'ll suggest that a commitment to equality of either type stands in opposition to a strongly class-based or hierarchical society.\r\n\r\nBack to you...\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-14 20:32:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2747,1,3473,'204.155.16.72','Chrees','condrieu@yahoo.com','','I hope the terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia follows the same pattern of gross miscalculation as previous attacks. At some point, these people will have to realize \"Black Hawk Down\" is a long way from the current state of the U.S. policy and mindset. Despite the tactical success on 9/11, in Bali, and in this blast, al Qaeda has made one strategic mistake after another, and they do not seem to understand (or care) that their actions only hasten their doom. This is beyond fantasy ideology. This is beyond a death cult. This is willful self-destruction on a grand scale.','2003-05-14 22:54:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2748,1,3476,'204.86.64.143','yak','yakzilla@mac.com','','This is true in naval aviation as well, particularly the carrier airwings. You are performing real-world missions, usually a finite set of them. The tacair guys do get to drop bombs (usually the 25 pound blue practice ones) but the amount of practice precision munitions, missiles and torpedos is very restricted. And there aren\'t too many instrumented ranges overseas that you can use either.','2003-05-14 22:58:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2749,1,3457,'199.168.32.7','Robin Roberts','finalprotfire@attbi.com','','Maxim, the allegations about France\'s active and material support of Saddam Hussein during the period of the sanctions and leading up to the recent military operation are not \"conspiracy\" theories, they are supported with actual evidence found in Iraq\'s archives. What the UN weapons inspectors showed was that Iraq could and did penetrate their operations. Iraq fooled them for years, the inspectors only made some progress in the late \'80\'s because of defectors from Iraq. They did not demonstrate any reliability nor competence of their own.
Your long comments would be more interesting if they actually dealt with real events.','2003-05-14 22:58:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2750,1,3457,'62.253.128.4','jimmy','jim.mangles@ntlworld.com','','I’ve been lurking, reading this correspondence with interest but increasing frustration. Now I’m going to inflict my views upon you! But firstly, you should know where I’m coming from; I’m British.\r\n\r\nIt is my view that the motives of Germany, Russia and France in opposing the US/UK move to a war legitimising UN resolution were significantly different in each case.\r\n\r\nGermany opposed war with Iraq because since the end of WWII the German people have become fundamentally pacifist. They have learned the lessons of their history, and we should all be appreciative of that. I suspect this trait might have become more visible before now if they had not been forced to become a (no, the) vital part of the front line between West and East in the long 40+ years of the Cold War.\r\n\r\nRussia opposed war with Iraq because it had oil and other interests there that it did not want to risk loosing (although a failed opposition to the war, the situation Russia now faces, greatly increases that risk) and as a trainee democrat, Putin when faced with a 90%+ popular opposition to war, ran with the crowd. Here, he needs lessons from Blair.\r\n\r\nFrance opposed war with Iraq because (a) it risked loosing far more from its oil, military and other interests invested in the Saddam regime than any other country; (b) it was almost in bed with Saddam and risked having this exposed if the regime fell, as is now happening; (c) Chiraq saw this as an issue that could be used to put new life into the Franco-German axis that drove the European programme for so long in the early years of the European Common Market (now the European Union); (d) Additionally, he thought that in the question of Iraq he had a rallying cry to bind the rest of Europe around French leadership in opposition to the perceived overweening power and arrogance of the United States.\r\n\r\nFrom this analysis, it is clear that each of these three countries should be dealt with in different ways.\r\n\r\nGermany is the only one that has acted from genuine conviction, an as such should be respected. It is also the only one that, despite that conviction, did not stand in the way of the US/UK when talking became shooting. Indeed, in various subtle ways, Germany did help the Coalition. It is distinctly possible that Germany would be prepared to assist in peace-keeping, etc. in Iraq in future. Also, when the present weak Schröder government is replaced, as will surely happen soon, it will be possible to consign this unfortunate episode in German-US relations to the history books and pick things up again from there.\r\n\r\nRussia made a mistake, probably led on by France. We should work to mend fences with Russia; perhaps going some way to help them recover their wounded pride, such as by compensating them in some not-too-obvious way from their lost investments. We must do what we can to ensure that Russia comes back onside sooner rather than later.\r\n\r\nFrance. Ah now, France. What do we do with France, which has now been exposed as acting as dishonourably and disloyally as any so-called ally could short of actually shooting at the Coalition?\r\n\r\nThe main thing to remember about France is that this is a nation that has never forgiven-- firstly; Britain for decisively settling the hundreds of years of cold and hot wars between the two superpowers of the day at Waterloo in 1815 with conclusive British victory and 99 years of Pax Britannica, and secondly; America for picking up the faltering British baton and becoming the new sole superpower. What really hurts the French is that because both of these upstarts speak English, French, once the world’s international language, has diminished in significance to little more importance than, say, Italian, while English has grown into the nearest thing there has been to a true world language since Latin.\r\n\r\nThe next thing to remember about France is that this not the first time it has behaved in such an outrageous manner. Anyone who looks at its behaviour during the negotiations leading up to the Versailles Treaty at the end of WWI, the impossibly grandiloquent manner adopted by de Gaulle while a refugee and guest of the British during WWII, and then his supercilious dismissal of the British request to join the Common Market in the 1960’s will see what I mean. (The ironic thing is that if had not been for Churchill’s insistence at the time it was being created, France would not have been a permanent member of the UN Security Council in the first place.)\r\n\r\nSo what do we do?\r\n\r\nI think the answer is simple. Nothing. France has already demonstrated that she has few followers in the rest of the EU and soon-to-be EU nations. Germany will fall away once the government changes and the true reasons for French behaviour becomes more and more obvious. This result will be an isolated France, which will hurt her more and more until she come to her senses.\r\n','2003-05-14 23:22:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2751,1,3474,'207.69.21.42','Chicken Pot Pie','cpp@cpp.com','','Good stuff, but when you say \"Democrats,\" I would have said \"Left Wing\" -- in my mind, a lot of Democrats don\'t belong in the left wing, anti-war, pro-let\'s-go-have-a-protest-crowd. (If you ever saw the movie P.C.U. these were the folks protesting something different every day.)\r\n\r\nThe DLC crowd headed by Clinton was in part a reaction against those attitudes, one that would be comfortable with compromising and governing from the center-left.\r\n\r\nAlso, your story about the bike shop doesn\'t have to be read as a cold-hearted sell-out. The fact is that every society, even a liberal student mini-society, has to allocate limited resources. They had a decision to make -- keep \"spending\" $50,000 on allowing a bike co-op or spend it on other student causes. \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-14 23:39:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2752,1,3474,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','C.P.P. - I think you\'re right about the Democrats, in that an increasing part of FDR\'s party has been up for grabs (hence the success of the GOP); this isn\'t news at this point. The DLC was, in part a reaction.\r\n\r\nBut what\'s been traded away is a core ideology - a justification - for the Party, or rather one that is consistent with the large body of voters needed to keep them in power.\r\n\r\nMy issue with the UC Berkeley story was that the elected officials there did what elected officials tend to do - they undermined their explicit objectives - in order to support their implicit objectives (stay in power). Principled elected officials are capable of doing both...and in fact, I believe that the voting public wuld respond well to that.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-15 00:04:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2753,1,3475,'4.33.33.18','Drumwaster','drumwasters.rants@verizon.net','http://drumwaster.blogspot.com','In the words of a very wise man:\r\n\r\n\"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good for the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.\"','2003-05-15 00:35:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2754,1,3475,'138.133.17.8','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','LOL - Fortunately, I\'ve been rereading Heinlein with my teenager...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-15 00:39:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2756,1,3384,'80.192.36.194','Ali','complacency@hotmail.com','http://www.islamicdigest.net/','Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim\r\n\r\n\r\nGreetings,\r\n\r\nThere is only one Islam. That is the Islam given by the Prophet(S). All other types of Islam are void.\r\n\r\nIslam is the supreme religion, as Allah tells humanity in the Qur\'an.\r\n\r\nSincerely,\r\n\r\n\r\nAli','2003-05-15 01:33:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103785,1,9802,'63.199.111.93','Jim Rockford','whiskey_199@yahoo.com','','Who was it, Robert Putnam of Harvard, who wrote \"Bowling Alone?\"\r\n\r\nA study that showed that \"diversity\" ALWAYS without fail increased distrust among citizens and led to less participation in civic affairs, increased distrust, even among like-formed ethnic/racial groups.\r\n\r\nThe implication is that more diversity = less patriotism and attachment to country.\r\n\r\nPatriotism may be impossible. Certainly it\'s illustrative that a man like Barak Hussein Obama, who spent the first 9 years of his life in a Wahabbist Madrassa in Jakarta, and has written of his dislike of America and \"love\" of Kenya (\"Dreams of My Father\") has said he does not like the flag or what it stands for and won\'t wear one on his lapel pin.\r\n\r\nThe more diverse we are, with immigrants (particularly those who are not forced to cut ties to the distant, unreachable home country) dominating, the less patriotism we will have, given Putnam\'s conclusions. Which so far no social scientist has been able to refute.\r\n\r\nParticularly, Mexicans in the US with ties to the nearby Mexico, with the ability to live an entire life never speaking English, and with Mexican-lobbying organizations, offer a dagger in the heart of patriotism. You can\'t be for La Raza and America. Be for Aztlan and the Constitution. Be for Reconquista and the US.\r\n\r\nMaybe we are destined to be somewhere between Belgium (corrupt, slow-motion collapse) and say, Yugoslavia circa 1988-1998.\r\n\r\nI certainly think that Putnam\'s research shows that patriotism and love of country/nation as a mutual defense pact between country and individuals (as Frank Miller put it) can only happen if we stop accepting immigrants and expel most of the illegal aliens now resident. Otherwise it seems fairly clear looking at Putnam\'s work \"here\":http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sunday/la-oe-rodriguez13aug13,0,4015315.column?coll=la-util-opinion-sunday\r\nor a better take \"here\":http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c4ac4a74-570f-11db-9110-0000779e2340.html\r\n\r\nMoney quote:\r\n\r\n\"His research shows that the more diverse a community is, the less likely its inhabitants are to trust anyone – from their next-door neighbour to the mayor.\r\n\r\nThe core message of the research was that, “in the presence of diversity, we hunker downâ€, he said. “We act like turtles. The effect of diversity is worse than had been imagined. And it’s not just that we don’t trust people who are not like us. In diverse communities, we don’t trust people who do look like us.â€\r\n\r\nProf Putnam found trust was lowest in Los Angeles, “the most diverse human habitation in human historyâ€, but his findings also held for rural South Dakota, where “diversity means inviting Swedes to a Norwegians’ picnicâ€.\r\n\r\nWhen the data were adjusted for class, income and other factors, they showed that the more people of different races lived in the same community, the greater the loss of trust. “They don’t trust the local mayor, they don’t trust the local paper, they don’t trust other people and they don’t trust institutions,†said Prof Putnam. “The only thing there’s more of is protest marches and TV watching.â€\r\n------------------\r\nNote Putnam delayed his publication out of PC-cant fear. I think it\'s very likely we will see a raw power struggle, between those who lose with diversity and win with patriotism (average Anglos) and those who win with diversity and lose with patriotism (elites and ethnic groups).','2007-10-07 00:33:23','2007-10-06 16:33:23',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2758,1,3482,'68.63.70.99','CBK','cbk@comcast.net','','I agree completely.\r\n\r\nI\'ve read his entire blog and the comments sections (which include his own) since well before the battle.\r\n\r\nHe\'s confused. He\'s young. He\'s a lot of things. But an agent?\r\n\r\nI don\'t think so.\r\n\r\nThanks for the citations. I was tempted to for the LGF comment section but didn\'t have time.\r\n\r\nI\'m sure there are many more that can be help up a example.\r\n\r\nAnd of course, the CIA/American plant accusation flew out a loooooong time ago, well before the first shot was fired.\r\n\r\nInteresting how some read \"anti-American\" in his writings, other\'s read \"pro-American\" in his writings. \"Of course he can\'t be openly pro-(insert Saddam or American here) or he\'ll blow his cover.\"\r\n\r\nHe\'s just a young man in an unusual place and at an unusual time.\r\n\r\nI wish him well and look forward to reading his future posts.\r\n\r\nCBK','2003-05-15 02:27:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2759,1,3285,'153.18.101.248','mike lanning','MDLann422@aol.com','','hard to think about gang rapes. The Bath party\'s porno has desensitized America and much of the world. About Lynch, I would say kill lots more Iraqi\'s, but it is not about Lynch. She is really just one of many...so I say MASS DESTRUCTION','2003-05-15 03:53:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2760,1,3472,'12.249.42.85','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','There are also some heavy anti-capitalist roots in the matrix as well.\r\n\r\nThe Matrix and the Society of the Spectacle[/url]\r\n','2003-05-15 04:02:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2761,1,3475,'169.207.134.254','triticale','triticale@hotmail.com','','This largely a result of the stage I was at when I read it, but no book did more to shape my worldview than _Tunnel in the Sky_.','2003-05-15 04:07:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2762,1,3475,'172.137.68.9','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','But I\'ll suggest that a commitment to equality of either type stands in opposition to a strongly class-based or hierarchical society.\r\n\r\nI would argue that commitment to \"equality of outcome\" which would require total state control actually reenforces the class-based system. Indeed, I\'m of the opinion that socialism has gained such currency in Europe because while it promises equality, it keeps the elite in power. The real European populists are the conservatives. It\'s a way of retaining an aristocracy which is analogous with past European governance. Witness some of the continuity between Czarist Russia and the USSR.','2003-05-15 06:03:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2763,1,3478,'12.242.185.169','Mike','mike@troutdream.com','','Windows XP\'s ClearType does indeed rock. By far the crispest display of text on a computer screen I\'ve ever seen. Way better than OS X\'s text rendering on my wife\'s Mac.','2003-05-15 06:12:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2764,1,3482,'207.170.32.5','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Before slipping in the misinformation you have to gain the trust of the reader.\r\n\r\nI was always a bit suspicious.\r\n\r\nOTOH perhaps I am giving him and his \"reputed\" intelligence operation too much credit for sophistication.\r\n\r\nI do agree that he is/was part of the Baathist family. How else do you get an internet connection without being noticed in a police state?','2003-05-15 08:20:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2765,1,3482,'65.95.83.125','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Ba\'athist family - as noted above, we agree. As for gaining the reader\'s trust - well, yes, but then you have to actually DO something with it.','2003-05-15 11:05:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2766,1,3482,'67.75.31.11','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','MB has read Salam since WAY before he became popular, back almost at his few weeks. The key is NAIF beyond belief. \r\n\r\nLiving in a protected class as he did, he spoke as the usual insulated youth who has yet to confront \"real life\". This is the only perspective that stands up to scrutiny. Trying to imbue his persona with anything more than that fails the reality test. \r\n','2003-05-15 14:20:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2767,1,3466,'67.75.31.11','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','And then there is this card deck of all those dim-bulb-donks in Texas. \r\n\r\n[ from Alan K. Henderson\'s blog]\r\n','2003-05-15 14:48:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2768,1,3482,'213.243.148.227','JH','jussimhamalainen@luukku.com','','If Salam had been a \"misinformation op\" by the Baathists,wouldn\'t he have sounded more like Robert Fisk with his \"impenetrable defenses\" and 100% support for Saddam?Try and remember that the Baathists weren\'t the most sophisticated bunch in the world.If they had been,they would have given Saddam something like 77% of the votes in his last election,and arranged several fake candidates to \"run\" against Saddam.Instead,he got every vote of every person in Iraq,with no abstentions.This was widely considered a joke,expect among the ANSWER-crowd.\r\n\r\nAs always,consider the source.KGB,in its day,was capable of quite sophisticated misinformation operations.For example,they forged a document in the seventies that seemed to connect E. Howard Hunt with Lee Harvey Oswald.The paper, supposedly written by Oswald to a \"Mr. Hunt\",fueled many a conspiracy theory before it was exposed as a fraud by a former KGB officer.\r\n\r\nThe Mukhabarat,on the other hand, was almost comically crude in its efforts.Even the North Koreans put up more believable demonstrations in support of their leader than the Iraqis did.Ditto with other media efforts.The millions allegedly bestowed upon Mr.Galloway,the kiss-ass interview of Saddam by that old Marxist,Tony Benn,or falsely claiming that Sean Penn had declared Iraq \'free of weapons of mass destruction\' while in Baghdad,these weren\'t the work of sophisticated pros who understood Western culture.\r\n\r\nTo summarise,I\'ll have to vote \'no\'.There\'s no way the Iraqi intelligence could have done this.','2003-05-15 14:48:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2769,1,3482,'24.69.255.203','Dale','searider@hotmail.com','','Hello; if this is a real person, where is he?','2003-05-15 15:24:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2770,1,3478,'63.118.119.54','Brian','bwohlgemuth@onlyinternet.net','http://wohlgemuth.megacity.org/blog','Oh my lord, this is what I\'ve been looking for. This is as good as OS X.','2003-05-15 15:37:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2771,1,3466,'65.95.83.125','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Shocker time... I actually SUPPORT what those Texas Democrats are doing, and consider it a legitimate tactic. \r\n\r\nGerrymandering is, at its very core, an attempt to insulate politics from democracy so citizens no longer participate meaningfully with their vote. To adopt a tactic of complete non-participation in the vote strikes me as a fitting counter. My only regret is that Republicans in states subject to Democrat gerrymanders hadn\'t thought of this earlier.\r\n\r\nPersonally, I\'d be very happy to see this tactic become widespread, on BOTH sides of the political spectrum. Armed Liberal has more on this issue.','2003-05-15 15:54:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2772,1,3482,'63.184.233.34','Kathy K','noway@dev.null','http://site-essential.com/','He\'s in Iraq. ','2003-05-15 16:07:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2773,1,3466,'207.168.128.93','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Regarding Salem Pax, Agent 00-Salem: \"DAVID WARREN SAYS that Salam Pax is a Ba\'athist and that his blog shouldn\'t be trusted.\"\r\nSo does anyone trust anything they read at just one source? Was he getting investment advice here or what? \r\n','2003-05-15 17:14:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2774,1,3482,'216.142.98.130','Charlie32','lancer_174@hotmail.com','','Read a lot of threads on this recently and just a couple of thoughts. When you are trying to evaluate a possible Sov-style disinformation or counterespionage operation one tool is to look at the cost-benefit aspect. What does it cost the opposition to run it vs what they get from it? Cost: chicken feed to run a blog on government controlled time and systems. Benefit: there\'s the question. What were there possible goals?\r\n\r\nRemember that a CE or Disinfo op can have several goals; one might be functioning as a communications channel to influence opponent thinking, another wold be to keep an eye on opponent actions and plans. Of course such a channel would be only one of many. Did it succeed in keeping Saddam in power? No, but neither did Mr Galloway, or TotalFinaElf and the French government.\r\n\r\nWhy would a defeated but not completely eliminated opponent continue such an operation? Cost/Benefit again. Prevent the complete eradication of your political party and allies. The book and film \"The ODESSA file\" were based on an actual organization of the defeated Nazi SS types, set up to help them hide out and then prosper in postwar Germany. Maybe there is a similar effort here?\r\n\r\nIn all the threads on Salam that I\'ve reviewed I keep seeing posts from people who argue he is not an \"intel agent\" (actually he would probably be an \"asset\" not an agent) by citing factors that make him seem appealing to them, and thus not an \"agent\". A good CE or Disinfo op would be designed to have just such traits to get you to buy into it. For Example:\r\n\r\nBack in the teens and twenties in the Bolshevik Sov Union, Dzherzhinski\'s CHEKA ran a fascinating op called the \"Trust\". The legend was that it was an anti-bolshevik underground, but in reality it was Mr D\'s thugs. They spun the story to expat Tsarists in the West and to Western governments to keep track of any real anti-Bolshevik efforts. They sold it by using the kind of people they expats and the West WANTED to believe in (right background right social class and education, right sort of former friends, etc)as assets to visit and ask for help, and gave up just enough (info, occasional staged attacks on Bolshie targets) to keep it looking good. Ultimately they got the target audience so sold on the story that the expats and the West used the Trust as \"their\" primary anti-Bol effort, sending lots of funds and gear back with the periodically visiting Trust reps. The West funded the Bolshies\' operation! When the \"Trust\" needed to lull the audience they would \"smuggle\" in an expat, give a him a good Potemkin-ing an send him out to describe how hard they were fighting the good fight. When they wanted to neutralize an opponent they would invite him in, but unfortunately the trip would be \"discovered\" by the Bolshies and he\'d be shot at the border or arrested inside. Watch or read \"Riley: Ace of Spies\" to see how the Trust was finally forced to close shop.\r\n\r\nThe Mukhabharat was trained by the KGB and SVR, organizational successors of the CHEKA. Very unwise to think they might NOT try such a ruse. Even thugs do smart things once in a while.\r\n\r\nConsider using a negative analysis--instead of looking at evidence that supports a hypothesis, look at what evidence shoots it down. The hypothesis with the LEAST number of negative evidences, rather than the one with more positives, could be the correct one. (Look up Dr Richards Heuer on the Center for Studies in Intelligence website, he\'s published some good material on this, much of it not classified).\r\n\r\nSorry for taking so long to say that. Hope it helps.','2003-05-15 17:18:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2775,1,3470,'198.26.132.101','Bill Robinson','charles.robinson@jfcom.mil','','Their drills were bloodless battles, their battles were bloody drills.\r\nJosephus the Histrian on the Roman Impreial Army\r\nCirca 1st Century A.D.','2003-05-15 17:51:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2776,1,3466,'210.180.96.9','The Marmot','rjkoehler@yahoo.com','http://marmotshole.blogspot.com','The Detroit Tigers? That\'s a little harsh, don\'t you think? I mean, even the Tigers have managed to win nine games this season.\r\n\r\nActually, it looks like Noh didn\'t have such a bad trip to Washington. The problem is, there are a lot of folk here who think he sold out. I just posted the media responses so far at my blog (as well as pics of my girlfriend, if anyone is interested).','2003-05-15 18:02:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2777,1,3482,'151.203.217.21','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','How about this theory: hoax\r\n','2003-05-15 20:14:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2778,1,3482,'12.33.164.7','Swopa','SwopaTwo@aol.com','http://www.needlenose.com','David Warren\'s column is chock full of lies.\r\n\r\nFor a detailed debunking of some of them, go here.','2003-05-15 20:53:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2779,1,3481,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','Joe, \r\n\r\nSo what do you think of the idea of helping the Shias in Saudi Arabia to revolt and break off from the rest of Saudi Arabia? They\'d take the oil and the oil money with them. Therefore the Wahhabis would be defunded. \r\n\r\nI think a key goal in the war against the Islamist terrorists has got to be the defunding of the Wahhabis. The area around the Saudi oil fields is majority Shia. The Wahhabis are Sunni. So splitting up Saudi Arabia seems like something that ought to be considered.\r\n\r\nComments?','2003-05-15 20:54:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2780,1,3482,'67.75.31.122','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','Take a peek *HERE* for more background information on Salam which may show more than has been mentioned. \r\n','2003-05-15 20:57:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2781,1,3482,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','Joe,\r\n\r\nI agree with you. Growing up in Baghdad he was bound to get all kinds of nutty ideas about the world. Heck, you can find Westerners who are nuttier on some subjects. Just because some of his views are ridiculous doesn\'t make him an Iraqi agent. \r\n\r\n','2003-05-15 20:58:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2783,1,3481,'65.95.83.125','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Once Iran is gone and we\'re comfortable with the results. We need to take this one at a time, however, and in order of threat (though Iran\'s interference in Iraq makes it an immediate target even as we rebuild Iraq, IMO - since the 2 are tied together). Meanwhile let\'s keep quiet pressure on the Saudis, encourage changes, and see what happens.\r\n\r\nThe goal of defunding the Wahabbis, however, is one I absolutely agree with. That has to be policy, and one of the top 3 eventual goals of the whole war.\r\n\r\nWhen Iran is dealt with, if Saudi Arabia isn\'t already performing to standard this is a card we should then consider playing. The end result would probably be to add the Saudi Shi\'ites to various sheikhdoms that exist now (Qatar, bahrain, Kuwait), or one could take a leaf from the British and carve out new Shia mini-state(s). \r\n\r\nWhether we do this and to what end, however, would all depend on circumstances. For instance, what if many Iranian mullahs end up in Saudi Arabia as a last major bastion of Islamism? Unlikely, but not impossible. In that case, secession is not a preferred option and a better policy would require other tools instead. \r\n\r\nAs long as we\'re clear on the end and willing to seize opportunities boldly we can weather the eventualities and win. Their societies present lots of opportunities for attack, and they\'re waking up to that fact now. The choice has to be \"reform or die\" before real reform is even possible, but we CAN force that choice. If we stay serious, we\'ll win.','2003-05-15 22:20:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2784,1,3472,'24.247.117.35','Miguel','miguel@centellas.org','http://www.centellas.org/miguel','And there are some heavy anti-Communist roots in the Matrix as well.\r\n\r\n;-)','2003-05-15 23:20:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2785,1,3474,'166.61.238.10','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','Did any of you see this week\'s cover of Time? Why They Don\'t Make Democrats Like They Used To. Unfortunately, I don\'t think they even begin to answer that question. More time is spent on giving advice to struggling candidates than asking where all the leaders have gone.','2003-05-15 23:41:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2786,1,3482,'207.151.249.204','Fred','fred@nospamplease.com','','Why is it so hard to believe that an Iraqi could be anti-Saddam and also anti-war? Some people in many countries believe that Saddam could have been taken out without war.','2003-05-16 01:53:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2787,1,3474,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Yeah, just saw it in the orthopod\'s office today...will possibly comment tomorrow (off to see The Matrix)...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-16 02:53:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2788,1,3483,'205.188.209.7','barry','apache7tears@aol.com','','\"Sarge roots for the machines\"\r\nThe sarge seems to have gone through a change of life lately, his last Blog calling most if not all military wives \"ho\'s\" and military men on TDY \"ho hoppers\" seems cheering for the bad guy is another page to the sarge change of life episode.\r\n\"Sarge if the heat in the kitchen is too hot, get out of the kitchen\" in other words take your RELACDU and move on.\"','2003-05-16 03:04:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2789,1,3483,'205.188.209.7','barry','apache7tears@aol.com','','Just so no one gets the wrong idea, \"I like Sarge he blogs like no other and I read him every day.\"','2003-05-16 03:08:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2790,1,3482,'208.223.218.27','Jeremy','jer@connectria.com','','The same people who believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth fairy, I guess. \r\n\r\nThe US couldn\'t even assassinate Castro. And lets not go into their track record recently, vs. Bin Laden and Mullah Omar. One is freakishly tall (well, for that part of the world, anyway) and the other has one eye.','2003-05-16 03:17:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2791,1,3472,'208.223.218.27','Jeremy','jer@connectria.com','','As a Gnostic, let me say there\'s only a thin veneer of it to the Matrix.\r\n\r\nIn Gnosticism, there is no belief that intelligent robots use human beings as batteries. \r\n\r\nThe material world is an illusion, yes (albeit a very convincing one). But that\'s it.\r\n\r\nThere are several science fiction films that are far more gnostic. Many written by Phillip K Dick (or rather, based on his works), because he was a Gnostic, and it permeated his writing. But others. And the movie Stigmata.\r\n\r\nI think the Matrix is something that people really want to overanalyze. Why? I dunno. Probably because the plot (and acting) are so shallow. \r\n\r\n','2003-05-16 03:23:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2792,1,3485,'24.214.6.165','Rock','foo@foo.com','','This is a damn good article and exactly the way my wife and I feel as well.\r\n\r\nFYI listen to Neal Boortz, www.boortz.com. He\'s a libertarian talk show host, and last I heard was #2 in the country behind Rush.\r\n\r\nHe was also called a \"vicious sob\" by O\'Reilly, so that has to count for something. :)','2003-05-16 05:00:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2793,1,3483,'67.193.60.32','Paul','wrenchmonkey@sgtstryker.com','','Hey, I only said half the wives are ho\'s and only 3/4 of the men ho-hoppers. \r\n\r\nAs far as the machines, it\'s never explained why the machines are supposed to be evil. We\'re supposed to take it for granted. The only evil thing the machines are shown to have committed is the maintenance of humanity in a dreamland and using their energy for power. The actions of humanity, as explained in the first film, are far more evil than anything the machines have done. \r\n\r\nPersonally, I think the whole thing will end up being revealed as a very complex version of The Sims being run on some guy\'s computer in 2040.','2003-05-16 05:11:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2794,1,3486,'24.25.13.131','John Thacker','thacker@math.cornell.edu','','The \"libertarian conservative,\" (or maybe it\'s the \"classical liberal\" or \"realist libertarian\") compromise here is to say that:\r\n\r\n1) Hierarchies are inevitable in human organization. It is impossible to have social relationships without differences in power, money, status, fame, attractiveness, what have you. In fact, as some differences decrease (availability of food, music choices, clean clothes, vacations, etc.) other status symbols will spring up to replace them, regardless of \"intrisic worth.\" (eating at the right places, wearing the right clothes, listening to the properly popular (or unpopular) music, being able to go to exclusive places, etc.) Anyone who claims otherwise is either deluded or merely trying to substitute a new basis for hierarchy. Any attempts to completely remake society to eliminate all hierarchy will end up creating a new hierarchy, all the more dangerous for denying its own existence.\r\n\r\n2) Despite this, it is possible to ameliorate this condition, first by insisting upon the moral and legal equality of all. Secondarily, one can endeavor to make the inevitable hierarchy as fair as possible-- such as by decreasing how much the hierarchy depends on rigid, inescapable facts of birth. (There are left-leaning and right-leaning ways to attack this. Rightists are concerned about things like taxes preventing both growth and people getting ahead; they lionize the entrepeneur. It\'s easier to see the policies favored by the left to attack this problem.) Thirdly, one can endeavor to make the differences in the hierarchy as trivial as possible-- to be about pure status rather than real human wants like getting enough food or clean clothes. (Again, leftists tend to slightly more focus on redistribution and how the pie is shared, rightists tend to focus on growing the pie, figuring that distribution will work itself out.) Of course, people still feel differences in status keenly, but this is still better.','2003-05-16 05:20:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2795,1,3482,'216.99.197.6','jeanne a e devoto','jaed@jaedworks.com','http://bittersanity.blogspot.com','Salam did not strike me as being anti-war so much as anti-being-bombed.','2003-05-16 06:47:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2796,1,3481,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','Joe,\r\n\r\nI agree that Iran must be dealt with first. Their huge uranium centrifuge enrichment effort is going to put them into the position to make a lot of uranium nukes. \r\n\r\nWe really need to be in a position to cart away or destroy all the Iranian equipment for making nuclear weapons materials. Plus, we need to get all the Russian technicians and engineers out of there (perhaps give some green cards) and similarly brain drain Iran\'s own native nuclear scientist and engineer pool with green cards.\r\n\r\nI don\'t know what the heck to do about Pakistan.\r\n\r\nAs for Saudi Arabia and the British example: how true. UAE, Bahrain, Kuwait, and Qatar are all small oil states on the Gulf. Why not add another one?','2003-05-16 08:06:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2797,1,3485,'172.169.108.244','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','I agree completely. The only problem I have really is where does this leave issues like universal health care and health care reform?\r\n','2003-05-16 08:29:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2798,1,3485,'208.20.220.69','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','Beware the one-party state, even if you think the party is absolutely right about everything.\r\n\r\nThe GOP, for all that it\'s immensely preferable to the Democratic Party at this time, is itself a political party: a power-seeking appliance, a vote-maximizing machine. It has no innate characteristics other than its pursuit of power through the electoral process. Therefore it should not be trusted, or left without competition.\r\n\r\nThe minor parties have proved incapable of providing that competition, for reasons beyond the scope of this tirade. It must come from some other source. For a hundred fifty years, that source has been the Democratic Party... but if Mr. Simon is correct, and I think he is, that condition won\'t last much longer.\r\n\r\nOnly competition keeps politicians honest. Without opponents to hold their feet to the fire, politicians start to drift -- from their espoused principles, from their consciences, from their electoral bases, and sometimes from reality itself. Consider the stories about Nixon\'s deterioration during the final days of his tenure in the White House.','2003-05-16 12:19:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2799,1,3485,'63.189.1.167','Bart Hall (Kansas)','bart.hall@prairiestarfarm.com','','Vastly over-simplified, as such things must be -- but not particularly wrong. \r\n\r\nFor instance, while communism sought (seeks) to prevent success, euro-socialism (and its American offshoots) seeks to prevent *failure.*\r\n\r\nAlso overlooked, for example, is the current strength of Gramsci\'s thinking in much of America -- that before socialism/communism can flower three things must happen: take over the press, take over the education system, and destroy christianity.\r\n\r\nOr again, the key role of Alinsky tactics in the Clinton-thought now dominating the democrats. \"Rub raw the sores of discontent.\" \r\n\r\nI don\'t think it is such a slam-dunk as you suggest, but my disagreement is more one of degree than of character.\r\n\r\nJust because something is an abject failure does not mean that it is dead. Look no farther than rent controls in New York.','2003-05-16 12:46:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2800,1,3482,'24.69.255.203','dale','searider@hotmail.com','','hello; when I asked where was he, I meant, has anyone actually seen him? Has he shown himself?','2003-05-16 13:19:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2801,1,3485,'208.20.220.69','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','That\'s an important observation you made about the Gramscian aspects of the thing, Bart. We should ponder whether the capture of the press and the educational system, and the destruction of Christianity, are sufficient for the triumph of socialism... or just necessary for it.\r\n\r\nAt various points in the past seventy years, it\'s felt as if America was hanging on by a thread. What kept us from sliding into the abyss? What little bit of influence, what extra measure of control or propaganda, did the Left narrowly fail to grasp, or simply overlook? Or was it just a matter of chance?\r\n','2003-05-16 14:35:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2802,1,3482,'24.170.184.176','Andrea Harris','webmistress@spleenville.com','http://spleenville.com/','Hello, none of us are in Iraq.','2003-05-16 14:36:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2803,1,3485,'208.187.143.163','Charles Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','','MS, I believe you\'re on the money. I have long been a fan of Strauss & Howe\'s \"Generations\" and find their generational categories perhaps the most effective description of what has gone on, is going on and will go on in America. The Democrats will indeed fade because their core constiuency is the Baby Boomer cohort. Boomers, for the most part, are idealists who never grew up. (Although GWB is a Boomer, he had a Road to Damascus experience when he gave up alcohol to save his marraige. So he grew up.) And they are now moving toward retirement. The Gen Xer\'s who follow are now moving into positions of leadership heavy lifting. Their key belief (or ideology, if you will) is that things must work. No fancy plans that must be adhered to but only successful outcomes. So all those dreams to make America an \"equal outcome society\" are so much mush to them. As they take over leadership positions look out for an economic boom. They are followed by \"millenial civics\" (they are now between the ages of 5 and 25, the baby in Raising Arizona) who are good followers. They do what the are told, few questions asked. When America has that combination of Gen X leaders and Civic followers amazing things happen. The last time this occurred was 1935-1965. Think of all that happened back then in terms of America\'s political and economic power. We may be headed into a period that will be a perfect fit for conservative-libertarians with little room for the Democratic Party, particularly if, as is their want, they refuse to give up their core beliefs.','2003-05-16 14:41:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2804,1,3485,'207.245.113.120','Undertoad','undertoad@cellar.org','http://cellar.org','You think that way, and I think that way, and blog readers think that way... but Joe and Josephine Voter don\'t give a slap whether Sweden is doing well. They just want to know what\'s in it for them, and if that means taking half their money so their vote can be bought by giving them a quarter of it back, then that\'s what the pols will do.\r\n\r\nAnd it will be another 10-15 years before gen-Xers are actually in power, and until that time the boomers and older are still voting. Voters swing older than the rest of the country which is why we still have a vein of GI thinking in pols with an older demographic - such as Santorum in PA.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-16 15:56:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2805,1,3488,'208.31.111.48','The Yeti','jmdurbin@yahoo.com','http://www.theyeti.blogspot.com','I wish the story had a better ending - but there\'s no doubt Bill\'s essay reminded me of how important confidence is. My experiences on the site pretty much started that night and haven\'t really stopped. I wonder if Bill created a monster. \r\n\r\nDefective Yeti is a different site than Tales from a Yeti Suit - he\'s in Seattle - but also very good. \r\n\r\nOr perhaps you were suggesting that it was perhaps me that\'s defective? ;)\r\n','2003-05-16 16:26:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2806,1,3467,'64.73.73.18','SparcVark','lanzknecht@hotmail.com','',' Call it what you like, I guess. I\'ll be studying philosophy before literature. Not sure how my weakness there is germane to the discussion, I confess.','2003-05-16 16:30:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2807,1,3482,'172.142.210.153','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','\"The US couldn\'t even assassinate Castro.\"\r\n\r\nOr the US didn\'t want to assassinate Castro.','2003-05-16 17:13:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2808,1,3485,'216.26.4.222','Michael J. Totten','michaeltotten001@yahoo.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','Germany is heading toward the Third World? That\'s a huge exagerration which doesn\'t help your case much. I have been to Europe and the Third World, and the distance between them is galactic.\r\n\r\nYou can count me as one of the Democrats who is disgruntled with their party. But connecting the 2002 election in any way to the implosion of Communism is also a huge exagerration which isn\'t helping your case much.\r\n\r\nHowever, the death of the Democratic Party as currently constituted is a likely event, for some of the reasons you say. And if that does happen, the Republican Party as currently constituted also will have to die. 9/11 really was the kind of event to make that happen. \r\n\r\nWe Americans were never fond of socialism, though, even those of us on the left like me who plugged for Ralph Nader. I think you overstate its significance here, and thus overstate the consequences of its dying elsewhere.\r\n\r\nI think it\'s a thoughtful piece despite my critique of it. ','2003-05-16 17:31:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2809,1,3488,'216.254.81.130','Anon','Anon@anon.com','','This is Seduction 101. Yawn.\r\n\r\nSee www.fastseduction.com for starters.\r\n\r\nThe shop term for insulting a bitchy woman is \"neg hit.\" Our hero should next have run some pattern language based on NLP and Ross Jeffries\' Speed Seduction techniques.','2003-05-16 17:40:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2810,1,3485,'67.74.133.174','M.','michaelel@earthlink.net','','The Dem problem is more than economic.The problems facing all western countries today are:\r\nPolitical\r\nEconomic\r\nSocial/Demographic\r\n\r\nThe Dems have yoked marxist redistribution to a tribal caste system of \"identity groups\",all whom have developed an unshakable sense of entitlement and privilage.But no one belives the fire is hot till they burn themselves.The system will continue till it collapse(likely) or reform(starting at state level)a kind of federal \"Thatcherism\"(possible,but not probable),but this reform will spawn great social and political upheavel along various fault lines.(inevitable what ever else happens)\r\nThere is ample reason to believe a libertarian/conservative alliance could succeed IF both control the extreme wings i.e. most Ameicans oppose \"gay rights\",not because they are religious homophobes,but because they see gays as yet another \"idenity group\" demanding a legally privaligaed postion,but are more than happy to live and let live if that is not an issue.Likewise libetarians need to understand that \"suck it up losers\" is not good economic policy to people to have seen their jobs exported or been reqired to train their H1-B replacements before being kicked to the curb.\r\n\"Actions have consequences\",libertarians have no hope of abolishing disabilty hand outs to drug users,but could possibly get drugs legalized by appealing to ppl\'s sense of hedonistic gratifiction,which would no doubt lead to many doobie tokers signing up for free housing,health care and money.Are you truly prepared for this?\r\nSocial conservatives tend not to compromise on socail issues(gays as an example,the line between\"love the sinner,hate the sin\" can get blurred)and libertarians tend not to accepct that they too often throw fuel on the very fires they want to put out(the drug example above).\r\n\r\n','2003-05-16 17:49:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2811,1,3481,'131.17.129.20','J S Allison','johnalli@swbell.net','','And while we\'re carving up SA, how about giving the west coast to Jordan including Mecca and Medinah, call it the Hashemite Restoration. Leave the wahabbi ***holes in the middle with their goats and the sand.','2003-05-16 17:57:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2812,1,3488,'65.95.83.125','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Sorry, Yeti... my mistake.\r\n\r\nAnon, I\'m familiar with NLP and agree on its usefulness, but colour me skeptical re: Mr. Jeffries. If our white-furred friend is looking for advice on what \"next\" might have looked like, I recommend a film called The Tao of Steve: \"Be desireless, be excellent, be gone.\" Yeti, you may have done better than you think.\r\n\r\nFor more comprehensive advice, the name to look up is a no-b.s. gentleman named R. Don Steele (he\'s also a published author). Don\'s stuff works, and it\'s simple. Just not easy.','2003-05-16 18:25:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2813,1,3485,'63.189.0.205','Bart Hall (Kansas) -- again','bart.hall@prairiestarfarm.com','','The \"third party\" dilemma in America ...\r\n\r\nWhat Mr. Simon does not address is the tremendous problem faced by large-L Libertarians. The recent history of the Reform Party in the US is but the latest illustration of a great American political truth -- politics (and parties) are a bottom-up endeavor.\r\n\r\nNo party based on a presidential candidate will ever draw more than a few percent of the vote. When Libertarians have a substantial (and growing) presence in 30 or more state legislatures ... and occupy a governor\'s chair or two ... they\'ll have a chance at the national level to start electing House Members and the occasional Senator. At that point (and not before) they become credible in a presidential race.\r\n\r\nIn raising the \"Generations\" issue, Mr. Rostkowski leads into another serious challenge for all libertarians ... in their 1997 book \"Fourth Turning\" the same authors describe libertarian thinking as ill-suited to a crisis period. They call it \'post seasonal\' -- more appropriate to the free and easy Unravelling, but decidedly unhelpful in the midst of an existential crisis for the nation.\r\n\r\nI\'m inclined to think that the crisis may ultimately hinge on the liberty issue to a significant degree. We are in a deepening struggle for survival with two powerful adversaries, both highly inimical to what America stands for -- islamo-fascism and secular-socialism (Gramsci and his ilk).\r\n\r\nOf the two, the latter is far more of a domestic danger, and has already won most of Europe.','2003-05-16 18:28:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2814,1,3456,'216.250.88.165','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','\"they\'d trim and stretch humanity in a heartbeat, but they haven\'t a grand design to propose.\"
-- M. Brazier\r\n\r\nWhy is one necessary in the first place. How is trying to plan society not an invitation to use force to achieve that plan? What does liberty mean if there is a grand political design?','2003-05-16 21:43:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2815,1,3485,'216.250.88.165','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','I am going to write something in response that might be a bit longer and host it on my site, but in the meantime...\r\n\r\nWe have a 380 billion dollar and growing military budget. I\'m not sure how many billions are in our budget for agricultural subsidy, which floods the markets of countries who\'s markets are opened by our military. \r\n\r\nI\'m not sure what aspects of \"Communism\" are \'dead\', because I\'m not sure which aspects of it aren\'t used to the advantage of the US. Certainly not the use of violence for political gain. You mention pol pot or Castro, no doubt you understand the historical conditions which caused regimes like these to emerge in the first place...(Vietnam, our policy towards US friendly Latin American dictatorships?) which brings me to my next point... State subsidy and centralized planning ensuring economic success of industrial powers was an aspect of the Soviet system, and is certainly an aspect of the US system.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-16 21:51:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2816,1,3485,'216.250.88.165','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','That got cut off.. sorry.\r\n\r\nBesides the use of violence for political gain, which we can\'t use because the US is the largest financier of violence, and has a rich history of supporting the violence of its clients, such as Suharto\'s genocide in East Timor, or the various Latin American death squad regimes...\r\n\r\nBesides economic power ensuring its dominance through the state, either through the massive direct subsidy or policy which allows them to gain power non-competitively, such as the media using the FCC to further monopolize...\r\n\r\nBesides the government serving as a welfare state...\r\n\r\nwhat part of Communism has proven to be a failure and is not used by the US?','2003-05-16 22:00:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2817,1,3485,'172.175.19.116','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','You don\'t know much about communism. \r\n\r\nHere\'s a thought... all types of government use violence for political gain! No one ever said democracy was inherently pacifist.\r\n\r\nIf this centralized planning you claim the US has is true, then why aren\'t all industries owned by the government?','2003-05-16 22:22:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2818,1,3485,'206.190.18.103','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','lindenen,\r\n\r\n Since the #1 problem with health care if you ask those actually providing the service is the government micro management, then I think you can say government supplied health care is dead. \r\n\r\n Before government got involved in heath care, health care inflation was running an astoundily unsupportable 5% a year. Once government got involved health care inflation is now running a reasonable 10% a year.\r\n\r\nBush with his tax cuts is trying to preempt the Democrats from using the money for health care.\r\n\r\nFrancis W. Porretto,\r\n\r\nThe one party state is a real danger. It would be better if the Ds. wised up. What I expect is that the Rs will split. It will be messy and there are many dangers on the road. However, knowing the dangeers well in advance is an advantage.\r\n\r\nBart Hall (Kansas),\r\n\r\nAs I point out the death is not obvious. There are hints. The recent Republican win in Minnesota is instructive. From the looks of him (before he has had a chance to govern) he appears to be in the libertarian mold. The Democrats today are weak but solid. By December 2004 they will not be solid or strong. The change is permanent. That is the key.\r\n\r\nFrancis W. Porretto,\r\n\r\nThe Gramscian problem is important but is not the sign of vibrancy. It is a sign of decay. \r\n\r\nLets look at the points.\r\n\r\n1. Capture of the press - they have doe it. In the process the press has lost it\'s credibility in America. No help here.\r\n\r\n2. The educational system - in spades. Yet again the system has lost it\'s credibility. In the colleges (exageration for effect) it is the teachers not the students leading the demos. Not much help here even with 85 to 90% penetration.\r\n\r\n3. Destroy Christianity. Not even close. Which is why this will be an important part of the resistance until the libertarian center is better formed.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-16 23:10:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2819,1,3485,'216.250.88.165','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','I was referring to the author\'s initial claim that Communism is dead, and doesn\'t work for the world, and definitely not for America. He then went on to imply that this was so because it kills, and destroys. You don\'t have to tell me that \'democracy\', if that is what we have here in the US, is not pacifist.\r\n\r\nThe US has a larger military budget than the rest of the world combined, and aside from this being a way to socialize the costs of high tech R&D in order to dump off any marketable technology on the private sector, to be sold back to the public who paid for it, it is also used to socialize the costs of \"kill and destroy\" policies that have been used quite successfully for the architects of those policies many times in history, whether the use of force was direct or through proxy armies supported by us. Our invasion of Vietnam, imposing on them a government they clearly did not want, is a fine example. Our support of Suharto in Indonesia, in the violent coup that brought him to power or his invastion of East Timor is another. All of these are cases where the costs of private profit are socialized among the public, which, even without the violence, is very \"Communist\".\r\n\r\nAnd I personally don\'t see any importance in making distinctions between \"State\" owned industries or \"Privately\" owned industries which are in extremely concentrated hands, made possible by the State, with its laws, subsidy, and protectionism. In both cases, economic power lies in the hands of unaccountable bureacracies. You don\'t exactly have control over the decisions made by General Electric or Exxon Mobil, though their right to make decisions which effect you and many others, who at the same time have no say in the matter, is protected by the State.','2003-05-16 23:23:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2820,1,3490,'138.133.17.8','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Re: the Lynch story. \r\n\r\nReading all the sources, it sounds like the Good Guys made an entry like one they would have made into a building full of possible bad guys and hostages, and didn\'t necessarily encounter any Bad Guys.\r\n\r\nFlashbangs would have accounted for a lot of the witnesses\' confusion about \'live\' weapons, and not knowing if there was a relief force (of Bad Guys) on the way, I can well imagine they would have just cut her out of whatever bed/mechanism she was in.\r\n\r\nThere\'s really no reason to doubt that both stories are true...and the fact that the building turned out to eb empty in no way compromises the heroism of the teams that walked in assuming that it was full of hostiles. The fact that all the witnesses are alive is testimony to the professionalism of the entry team.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-16 23:26:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2821,1,3485,'206.190.18.103','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Michael J. Totten,\r\n\r\n The slide of Germany is barely evident. So of course it looks quite solid. The USSR looked solid for a long time. Their problems are identical if of a somewhat different magnitude. It is a problem of demographics and productivity. They have been at around 10% unemployment for a decade. They know what they have to do but so far are unable to do it politically. Socialism is killing them. I want to repeat a point that is quite important here. They know what to do but can\'t do it. Of course France is worse and farther along in the slide. They knew what to do in 1995.\r\n\r\n One of the core philosophies of the Democratic Party is economic redistribution. They did it as it has been done in most socialist countries with programs. Social Security will be privatized over time, government control of health care will end. Welfare has already been reformed at least philosophically so we have already started down the road of reform. Socialism (and anti-capitalism) has been a very important wing of the party for a very long time. In many ways they are the core of the party just as the religious conservatives are the core of the Republicans.\r\n\r\nI am not predicting what will happen next week. I expect it will take 20 or 30 years for the changes to rumble through the system. The decline of the Democratic Party will take at least ten years. The restructuring of the Republicans a few years more.\r\n\r\nWhat is so interesting to me about the US vs France/Germany etc. is that we are much more flexible in terms of government run social policies. I see America on top economically for another 50 to 100 years. This will allow us to have a military that is unbeatable (in any major way) for 2 to 3% of GDP. Peanuts.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-16 23:55:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2822,1,3485,'206.190.18.100','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','M.,\r\n\r\n Latest polling on the gay right thing says you are wrong. Look at the article on Minnesota for confirmation. Acceptance of gays is in the 60 to 80% range depending on the question. Even gay marraige gets something like 40% approval. Andrew Sullivan had something on this in the last few days. This is why I think the libertarian center is so important for the transition. \r\n\r\n The gay thing has been decided. The next great question for the libertarian center will be drug prohibition. 70% or more Americans say prohibition is not working. 40% favor legalization of everything.\r\n\r\nYour questions about drug users is very important. I have studied the question intensively. Drug users are in fact disabled. Chronic drug use is caused by chronic pain.\r\n\r\nhttp://windsofchange.net/archives/003370.html\r\n\r\nThe question is what to do about it. Legalization will solve 1/3 to 2/3 of the problem. Lower the cost of drugs and it becomes possible for the \"addict\" to get the needed drugs at a reasonable price. Or take heroin users. The number of them working in a given cohort rises from 30% to 60% or better when they have a legal supply. The reason is cost. Theft by the treated cohort declines by 90%. So a lot of the drug problem will go away with legalization. \r\n\r\nEstimates are that prohibition costs any where from $40 billion to $200 billion a year depending on what costs you include. If we have to (and I\'m not necessisarily in favor of it) we can treat the hard core \"addicts\" and turn a profit with legalization. \r\n\r\nWhat you must remember is that prohibition is not built on a scientific basis. It is built on a \"moral\" basis. Because of that it is not sustainable. \r\n\r\nAs to doobie smokers and free rent. We have a lot of alcoholics in this situation and we manage. In fact if we can move a significant number from alcohol to doobies we will lower health care costs. And reduce a significat cause of violence. (alcohol is the only drug proven to have a statistical connection to violence caused by the drug according to the DOJ)\r\n\r\nThe key here is science. Once that is well known the solutions will be better tailored to the problem.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-17 00:24:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2823,1,3485,'206.190.18.100','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Francis W. Porretto,\r\n\r\n On the question of what the Gramscians missed I\'d say there were two major points.\r\n\r\n1. Religion is very strong in America. \r\n2. Americans are better educated about the world than the world knows.\r\n\r\nAs to point one it is very important that the religion is Christianity. Jesus did not believe in an all powerful state.\r\n\r\nThe Jews have also learned this lesson in the diaspora.\r\n\r\nThe average American can see what happens when religion does not resist the state in Islam. 9/11 has been a wonderful education tool. In that sense I would say the Gramscians are just unlucky. \r\n\r\nAnd that brings up point 2.\r\n\r\nWe can also see that the more socialist the state the poorer the economic performance. France and Germany are obvious. Britain is borderline. \r\n\r\nThe fact that 9/11 happened in the Internet Age means the people who care can get as informed as they like in a relatively unbiased manner.\r\n\r\nIn fact in a very small way I helped invent the Internet. I\'ll write about it one of these days.\r\nI\'m really happy with this baby. In fact in 1977 my wife to be and I made \"Support the Revolution - Buy A Computer\" T-shirts. In some small way we could see the future. And it has turned out way better than I would have predicted.\r\n\r\nSo I\'d say is that the Gamscians failed because the American public has outside sources of information not controlled by the Gramscians.\r\n\r\nThe internet is the key.\r\n\r\nNo way I could be having this conversation on any other medium. Computers, modems, and telecom are the keys.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-17 00:42:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2824,1,3485,'206.190.18.100','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Bart Hall (Kansas),\r\n\r\nLibertarians who want to have an effect on politics are joining the Republican party. Larry Elders did it the other day. Milton Friedman did it a very long time ago. Not to mention Ron Paul.\r\n\r\nIt is a move I have been considering for quite some time. This conversation may just push me over the edge. :-)\r\n\r\nOnce the Democrats fold the libertarians will separate from the Republicans. A lot of how all this turns out will be path dependent. i.e. it will depend on accidents of history. Just as the fall of the Gramscians was caused by an event that exposed their contradictions. 9/11. And tools to communicate the contradictions. The internet.','2003-05-17 00:51:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2825,1,3485,'68.21.92.226','Doug','ds46254@yahoo.com','','If the economy does not improve soon, average working families will look for a change and that change will be in the form of democratic socialism. ','2003-05-17 00:56:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2826,1,3486,'64.219.63.40','Joe D.','ramman31@sbcglobal.net','','I agree with your position that communism is theoretical a philosophy that consiers everyone as equals - even if, in practice, no communist country has come close to implementing that ideal.\r\n\r\nBut then again, in what way are people \"equal.\" \r\n\r\nHowever, I am struggling with this matrix for a couple of reasons. First of all, there seems to be some kind of relationship between the two axis. If a society doesn\'t see everyone as equal (as in the Dickensian you reference) then its not truly open in that everyone doesn\'t get a voice in shaping policies. Likewise, in a closed society such as communism, not everyone is equal because if you have a disagreement with how things are done, then you become an enemy of a state and become a second class citizen (if not dead). \r\n\r\nSecond, I am having a hard time placing American political ideologies into the matrix. All would claim to be in favor of an open, equal society but would differ in how to get there. Democrats tend to want a large government to enforce the open, equal ideal, while liberatarians seem to think that people would get to the ideal naturally if the government would just get out of the way. Democrats tend to want to focus on fixing things at home, while Republicans tend to focus on a strong defense to prevent outside forces from destroying what we have. \r\n\r\nIt seems I have more to say here, but I need to go and think on it a bit. ','2003-05-17 01:04:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2827,1,3485,'206.190.18.100','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Jonathan,\r\n\r\n What you fail to understand is that profits in a competitive system are the key to continually improving efficiency. Improving efficiency is the key to getting the masses tomorrow what only kings have today.\r\n\r\n What you fail to understand is that most of themilitary R&D was amortized years ago. The flow is now in the other direction. The military buys commmercial equipment as much as possible for military use especially when it comes to computers. Your military is powered by Microsoft and Intel. And the military business is barely significant from a business pint of view. it is called the COTS movement. Standing for Commercial Off The Shelf.\r\n\r\nI will also point out that from a historical point of view the more whole heartedly a country joins the American economic system the more it prospers. So imposing our system from time to time is long run good for those imposed on. The people get control of their politics and they get better economics. A record to be proud of if often imperfectly done. No other system has done so well.','2003-05-17 01:05:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2828,1,3485,'206.190.18.100','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Doug,\r\n\r\n The tax cuts being rammed through Congress show that the peolpe know that the problem is too much dead weight on business rather than insufficient theft followed by redistribution.\r\n\r\nAs I have said socialism is dead.\r\n\r\nLook at Minnesota. Probably our #2 socialist state. It just elected a Republican Governor who has promised to hold the line on taxes and make up the budget shortfall by cuts.\r\n\r\nIt is way too easy to see where France went wrong. What are the odds of getting the USA to follow the French these days?\r\n\r\nThe issue will not be settled here. It will be settled in Nov 2004 when the center abandons the Democrats. The #1 clue is that it is not the Republicans who are going through a wrenching re-evaluation.\r\n\r\nBTW so you will know where I\'m coming from:\r\nDemocrat, anarcho-communist, Libertarian, libertarian, heading towards Republican. Over a 40+ year period. I know a lot about the opposing views because I have held a lot of them.','2003-05-17 01:18:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2829,1,3490,'68.117.129.22','P.H.','pjhwittig@yahoo.com','','I think its a matter of \"hope for the best, but prepare for the worst\". Could anyone know for sure that the opposing forces were truly gone? ...that it wasn\'t a set up? Trust is a scarce commodity and a good amount of doubt can keep you alive. \r\n\r\nWar is not a hollywood movie. But I do think the press treats it as such. ','2003-05-17 01:21:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2830,1,3485,'206.190.18.100','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Jonathan,\r\n\r\n You are correct about there being a lot of communism in the system. It won\'t be thrown out all at once. But welfare reform shows the direction.\r\n\r\n Having worked for a number of mega corporations I\'d have to say that the effort for most of them is to continually improve efficiency and serve their customers.\r\n\r\n What keeps business honest is not government control (ask the USSR). What keeps business honest is competition. In other words Capitalism. Capitalism will not give you perfection. But it does self correct. Because voting with dollors happens more frequently than voting with ballots. ','2003-05-17 01:30:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2831,1,3484,'68.19.200.204','Boris A.Kupershmidt','maps4u@hotmail.com','','Don\'t bother wasting your time.\r\nThe questions are left-wing \r\nslunted and idiotic.','2003-05-17 03:45:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2832,1,3485,'68.194.193.162','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','Some fascinating stuff here!\r\n\r\nWith regard to the Gramscian Long March theme, one of the things that didn\'t happen in America was the use of acquired power to foreclose the development of alternatives in the three areas cited. The Internet as a response to the Old Media is fairly obvious, as is homeschooling (and other rebellions) as a response to socialized education. It\'s a little harder to see the development of alternatives in the world of religion -- people have a tendency to think \"New Age B.S.\" when you combine \"alternative\" with \"religion\" -- but if you squint just a bit, you can see the intramural fissures in the Christian sects, particularly in Catholicism and Baptism. Also, though the socialist elite did their level best to denigrate and defame traditional, nonpolitical religious faith, and succeeded in weakening it greatly in the coastal regions where their influence is greatest, they were unable to affect heartland America.\r\n\r\nThis is in stark contrast to Russia, where socialism established itself firmly. In that unhappy realm, alternatives to the State media and schools were suppressed by force. Religious practice, though never explicitly criminalized, was subjected to severe enough pressure to force it out of the national consciousness. (It\'s hard to run a service of any kind when all the priests, ministers and rabbis are in the Gulag for \"cosmopolitanism.\")\r\n\r\nI think that, had the capture of the media, the schools, and the churches been supplemented with big NO EXIT signs and armed guards, we would probably have slid the rest of the way down the slope into a central-planning system, complete with nomenklatura, secret police, re-education camps, and all the other wonderful frills of socialist tyrannies.\r\n\r\nThe war isn\'t over yet, of course. There are pitched battles taking place everywhere, most notably over education, the Left\'s most staunchly maintained bastion. Socialism in the West is going part undercover, morphing back and forth between its traditional form and several new guises: multiculturalism, postmodernism, and transnationalism. But for the moment, the counterinsurgency for freedom appears to have the upper hand.\r\n\r\nHere\'s another poser: To what extent has the drive for socialism been crippled by the bad behavior of its most prominent exponents? There\'s certainly been enough of that. How closely do people identify the virtues of an idea with the character of its champions?\r\n','2003-05-17 08:59:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2833,1,3485,'63.189.0.174','Bart Hall (Kansas) -- once again','bart.hall@prairiestarfarm.com','','I had figured to be done posting on this thread, but it\'s a rather (not Dan) good one, and I think it illustrates something quite important. It would be interesting to know the profession (and home location) of those posting on this thread -- I, for example, am a farmer, for Pete\'s sake ... which leads me to the point being illustrated here.\r\n\r\nGramscians do indeed control the education system in America and Canada; or more correctly the *school* system, particularly at the post-secondary level outside of hard sciences. The university is a rotten and dying institution, but one still considered the chief arbiter of thought and discourse in the modern world.\r\n\r\nAbout 850 years ago, that role was occupied by the Catholic Church. Equally rotten. Small groups of independent scholars and guild workers would gather together and --using Latin as a common language-- freely discuss ideas long-since shouldered out of church scholastics.\r\n\r\nThose independent groups on the intellectual margin grew into the entire university movement now in its decadence. What we have *here* is a group of independent thinkers --using English as a common language-- gathering on the internet. The similarity is to strong for me to ignore, especially in light of the potent libertarian flavor innate to much of the early university movement eight centuries ago.','2003-05-17 12:12:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2834,1,3491,'208.37.156.192','Jack','no@no.info','','I\'m using Mozilla 1.1 on Win2k ... but I kind of like the site without fonts and colors and punch-the-monkey banners and stuff.\r\n\r\nI\'ve always been a 10pt courier kind of guy though.','2003-05-17 16:36:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2835,1,3491,'65.95.83.125','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','This is really weird. Netscape 7.02 is doing it to almost ALL sites with MT and sylesheets. Insta, Laughing Wolf, CMD Post, everyone. \r\n\r\nLike it stopped rendering stylesheets all of a sudden. But the stylesheet code hasn\'t changed. Weird.','2003-05-17 16:53:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2836,1,3491,'67.75.43.219','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','Don\'t know what Jack meant by this: ... and punch-the-monkey banners and stuff..., but there is pale coloring on a link when doing a roll-over, blue headers in the side-bar, etc. MB is using Opera 7.1. \r\n\r\nIs there a \"punch-the-monkey\" banner here? If so, MB has yet to see that. She does NOT punch fellow critters. :-) \r\n','2003-05-17 17:04:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2837,1,3491,'80.228.40.253','Scott Hanson','shanson@shcon.com','http://www.papascott.de/','Under lynx on FreeBSD the site appears without fonts or colors. Of course, lynx is a text browser, so _all_ webpages appear without fonts and colors :-)\r\nSeriously, the site is very readable with lynx... a sign of good accessibility. And I\'m posting with it now.','2003-05-17 17:18:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2838,1,3491,'208.37.156.192','Jack','no@no.info','','No no ... I was just kidding about the punch-the-monkey banner ... sorry .... ','2003-05-17 19:43:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2839,1,3492,'24.27.72.143','Kevin Shaum','kevin@lazypundit.com','http://lazypundit.com/','Suffering for a belief doesn\'t make the belief true, or even significant. And suffering for a foolish or trivial cause doesn\'t make you wise or admirable, only pitiable. A trivial falsehood is still false, and still trivial, no matter how much your feet hurt from trying to prove it true.\r\n\r\nSpend your efforts on things that are true, things that really matter.\r\n\r\nFinding such a cause might require a lot of searching. On foot. So wear comfortable shoes.','2003-05-17 19:46:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2840,1,3485,'207.170.32.134','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Bart,\r\n\r\n My idea for the \"internet\" 25 years ago was to have an \"800\" number that top scientists and researchers could call to communicate with each other.\r\n\r\n Now we have something much better where difficult questions can be discussed in quasi-real time by any one who wants to pitch in.\r\n\r\nBTW I\'m an aerospace engineer. Hardware, software, real time controls.','2003-05-17 20:09:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2841,1,3492,'68.117.129.22','Horak','pjhwittig@yahoo.com','','If a belief is causing suffering,lose the belief. Would there be suffering if belief fit reality?','2003-05-17 20:51:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2842,1,3485,'12.249.42.85','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','Simon,\r\n\r\nIt isn\'t that I fail to understand that improving efficiency is supposed to bring \"the masses\" tomorrow what \"the kings\" have today. It is that I disagree completely, from a historical and economic perspective that it does, and from a environmental perspective that we ought to pursue that in the first place. To get the environmental part out of the way, if the masses today were as dependent on commodities and the consumption of natural resources as \"the kings\", we\'d need about four more planet\'s natural resources and waste absorbing capabilities to support it. And since we don\'t have those extra Earths, we need to find another imperative than increasing the \'efficiency\' by which we pillage the Earth\'s natural resources and produce ungodly amounts of waste in the process, for private profit. \r\n\r\nUp to this point, benevolent promises like yours aside, increased technological efficiency and the push towards Neo-liberal policies such as privatization, less state subsidy (on things for \"the masses\"), fewer restrictions on labor and environmental standards and less restrictions on capital flows has only served to polarize wealth, not spread it. Yes wealth has increased for the few, meanwhile so has poverty, war, pollution, disease, and the economic burden socialized among future generations of “the masses”. \r\n\r\nThese policies have been imposed on the masses by the kings, who never have to follow them themselves. Not one developed country today has developed because it has adopted free market policies, but because it was able to protect their industries and use the state to subsidize various economic interests, all in the name of decreasing competition. Personally I don\'t see this going away, while I do see arguments like yours seeking to erode the more benevolent aspects of that system to the benefit of corporations - \"the kings\" - who will decry \"Socialism\'s inefficiency\" so long as it isn\'t being used to guarantee their profits, but used as a way to ensure the trickle down of resources to \"the masses\". So to sum it up, based on your admission that there is still a lot of \"communism\" in the system, I\'d argue that it isn\'t \"communism\" that is dead, it is the free market. Indeed, it has been for quite some time. What I truly fail to understand is why businesses would seek to bring the free market back, when socializing the costs of private businesses as well as state protectionism is the only guarantee of their power. \r\n\r\nAs for your comment about military R&D, you are essentially adding to the point I was making. The military buys commercial equipment as much as possible... that is one way you can say it. Another way you can say it is the military, with their decision making completely sheltered from public participation based on the fact that the public doesn\'t want to have a say so in whether or not we build this bomb or that bomb, transfers public money into private profit -- an economic stimulus. Whether the US is paying private corporations to do R&D, or doing it themselves and then giving the results to a private corporation when a product becomes marketable, they’re just different means to the same ends. I don\'t know what you mean that it is \"barely significant\" to businesses either, being that the United State\'s role as protector of global capital flows is dependent on having a strong military, its cost socialized among the public. \r\n\r\nFinally, I’d have to ask that you back up your claim that countries that join the US system end up prospering. I’d have to ask that you be specific about who in each country prospers -- the investor classes, the foreign owned corporations, the middle classes, the poor masses, or all? We can easily see from looking at Latin America, that while it may be the case for foreign owned corporations or the local investor classes, it is not the case for either the poor masses or the shrinking middle classes. \r\n\r\nCompare Cuba and Guatemala for example. Both had revolutions at around the same time. In 1954, a Liberal Democratic regime in Guatemala with enormous popular support started enacting agrarian reforms threatening US financial interests. In Cuba, a guerrilla movement was combating a US backed dictatorship threatening longstanding US financial interests, also with enormous popular support, both within Cuba and throughout Latin America. Guatemala didn’t succeed. Their government was overthrown in a CIA organized coup and its supporters, mostly poor Mayan peasants, were killed at genocidal levels with the support of the US. Cuba on the other hand did succeed. So you have two countries, neither are models for civil liberties, a dictatorship of wealth controls in another and a communist dictatorship with a commitment to raising living conditions of the poor in another. One is outside the US system. The other is not. \r\n\r\nCuba, by far, has better living conditions for the masses than Guatemala, who is one of the poorest countries in the world. The situation generalizes across Latin America, almost every country in it having been a victim of US intervention at one point or another.\r\n','2003-05-17 21:00:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2843,1,3485,'12.249.42.85','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','And it deserves mentioning that Cuba has had to contend with decades of international terrorism and an embargo from the world\'s leading superpower who, only 90 miles away, would otherwise serve as a valuable trade partner.','2003-05-17 21:33:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2844,1,3220,'198.81.26.113','Caroline','Gatekeeper953@msn.com','','Dear Mr Blair:\r\n\r\n I want to Thank You for your help in the war against Iraq. I am an American and I know we all suffered allot of losses of our soldiers over there, It was a terrible loss to everyone, But without your countrys help we couldn\'t have done the job we all had to do.\r\n\r\nI have great respect for you and your country. I have little respect for France and Germany these days.\r\n\r\nIn summary Your speechs stay on my mind allot, And I THank You Again!\r\n\r\n','2003-05-17 23:29:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2845,1,3485,'206.190.18.150','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Jonathan,\r\n\r\n If you want input into the way military equipment is done become an engineer.\r\n\r\nI have worked on LANTIRN, Avenger, F16, and numerous other projects.\r\n\r\nThere is no reason to give unqualified people like yourself decisionmaking power over something you don\'t understand. \r\n\r\nIf being an engineer is not close enough for you you could get elected to Congress. \r\n\r\n+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\r\n\r\nCuba is a Communist basket case. If you believe anything coming out of Castro\'s Cuba you probably bought everthing Stalin said. \r\n\r\nBut any way thanks for the input. You are proof positive that Communism is not going to rise again.\r\n\r\n+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\r\n\r\nThe reason Cuba is failing is that everyone but the US of A will trade with it but without the US of A they can\'t make a living. Surely you are joking. If Cuba is so dependent on the US of A why don\'t they give up socialism so they can be prosperous? You know a bunch of signs went up in Cuba a few years ago. \"Socialism or Death?\" The grafitti artists painted \"What\'s the difference\" on the signs. So the Cuban people do get to express themselves despite Castro\'s crackdown on telling the truth about the People\'s Paradise of Cuba. \r\n\r\n++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\r\n\r\nTaiwan was a dictatorship until per capita income hit about $300 per month. So you really have to look at the economics to see where the politics is headed. Guatemala is advancing Cuba is declining.\r\n\r\n=============================================\r\n\r\nIf you really want to get me on your side you might mention the drug war which is criminal. Plan Colombia is a recipe for trouble. \r\n\r\n','2003-05-17 23:45:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2846,1,3485,'12.249.42.85','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','Simon,\r\n\r\nApparently another aspect of the Soviet system which is alive and well today is the tendency to want to silence critics...\r\n\r\nMoving along, I agree completely with you that the ability to impact the military industrial process shouldn\'t be open to unqualified people like me, or like the rest of the public. That was my whole point. Bush\'s proposed budget has the US spending about 380 billion dollars, or about half of the US federal budget, on something that is completely closed to democratic control, but instead chiefly handled by only a handful of unaccountable bureacracies. Spending more than the rest of the world combined, and already having a vastly superior military, much of this can hardly be attributed to actual military needs, but instead to economic stimulus. It has been a long time since, but you might want to check my earlier questions asking you to elaborate on which parts of the Soviet System were failures and not employed healthily by the US. Extremely centralized control of vast economic power through bureacracies by way of the state government, as opposed to a competitve free market or a democratic socialist system, sounds pretty US(A)RR to me.\r\n\r\nAs for Cuba, how is it more of a failure than countries in the US system like Haiti or Guatemala? I never called it Paradise, but as far as things like hunger, child poverty, infant mortality, homelessness, health care, or other measures of human progess that often have inverse relationships with profit margins, they are better off than comparable countries in Latin America, who are not showing signs of improving. All this while having to contend with an embargo from the USA, not to mention covert attempts to destabilize the government. Personally, I do not support Castro. I think economic justice and civil liberties should go hand in hand, but I understand, along with most Latin Americans, even if most North Americans don\'t, that non-violent and openly democratic movements do not survive the CIA and US intervention as well as closed military hierarchy. Just ask Juan Bosch, Jacob Arbenz or Salvador Allende.\r\n\r\nAs for Plan Colombia, I agree, and it is important to look at it and the drug war, which has only made drug lords richer, as part of a larger picture, not isolated events.','2003-05-18 00:22:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2847,1,3492,'65.95.83.125','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Good thoughts. I think of The Matrix these days, and their point that when given a world without suffering, the humans refused to believe it and rebelled. How much of our suffering ties to very deep beliefs, things that go beyond ideology? Some Zen masters and Sufis might say \"all,\" but getting there is no easy task.\r\n\r\nIdries Shah: \"For the purposes of Sufism, several elements in the human mind must be aligned before the interference that prevents higher understanding can be stilled. People are always supposing that they can realize their full potential if they can only discover the way, the key, the method, and apply it. But applying the method may involve taking care of all the things within them that are not helping them....\"\r\n\r\nLazypundit is right... have your comfy shoes on for this jouney.','2003-05-18 01:19:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2848,1,3485,'208.187.143.170','Charles Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','',' Jonathan seems to be fussing over the number of capitalist sins he can fit on the head of a pin so may I inject another of my favorite authors here? Hernando de Soto who, in The Mystery of Capital, declares that the key to Third World development is the establishment of clear property rights. No easy feat (it took us over a century to do it, but now we\'re very good at it) but a very necessary one. MacArthur did this in Japan and in just seven years of occupation created an economy that eventually became one of the world\'s best (although it has been a little shakey lately). He simply created a process for determining clear property title. DeSoto is now consulting with the Bush Administration on Iraq which is why I\'m optimistic about its future. Imagine what would happen if someone who lives in the slums of Sao Palo had clear title to the equity in the little shack he lives in. The process of wealth creation would be unlimited. If DeSoto ever gets traction with those third world leaders who are serious about developing their countries, look out. Millions of dollars of dead capital will suddenly come to life and peasants will have what only kings had recently. I know, slap me, I\'m an optimist.\r\nBTW, I\'ve been the director of a homeless shelter for past 18 years and am about to retire and start a real estate investment business. I studied to be a history prof once but quit to become a taxi driver.','2003-05-18 01:44:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2849,1,3485,'172.134.49.29','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','Apparently another aspect of the Soviet system which is alive and well today is the tendency to want to silence critics...\r\n\r\nHa! Find me a system where people don\'t want to silence their critics. The difference is that the FBI will not show up on my doorstep to take me to a work camp if I say \"Bush sucks\". Anyway, I guess this makes Rush Limbaugh a communist.\r\n\r\nIIRC, the US defense budget is 4 or 5% of US GDP. The USSR spent a much much higher percentage of its GDP on its military. If someone knows the exact numbers, I\'d be much obliged.','2003-05-18 03:21:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2850,1,3485,'12.249.42.85','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','Find me a system where people don\'t want to silence their critics....\r\n\r\nPlease take the quote in actual context. I was referring to Simon\'s response, several of which were bordering on trying to insult me. ','2003-05-18 03:30:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2851,1,3485,'65.95.83.125','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Military spending estimates are difficult because the Soviet system was not a real economy per se... 12-20% is the general range, which computes when you look at the relative economy sizes and amount each side was buying.','2003-05-18 03:32:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2852,1,3485,'172.134.49.29','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','Thanks, Joe. Also, iirc your Soviet numbers are about what the US spends on health care.','2003-05-18 03:40:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2853,1,3375,'128.205.233.97','Mart','lapoubelle_1@hotmail.com','','I completely fail to understand why Jewish and Israeli spokesmen do not challenge the legitimacy of the expression \"right of return\" every time it is used by West Bank Arab spokesmen. The existence of an Israeli Arab minority amounting to 1/5 of the population with full citizenship refutes any argument that Arabs were thrown out or even seriously threatened during the creation of Israel as a state. Those who left it during the wars were largely, like any ethnic group, more desirous and felt more secure in living in a country of their own culture, and expected to be integrated into other Arab countries. In other past situations where borders are changed, such substantial migrations occur and the emigrees are indeed integrated to the benefit of the host country. A number of Arabs also left in expectation of Israel\'s destruction and a wish to join in or at least to keep out of harm\'s way. Many of this group were indeed able to return when hostilities stopped. Israeli authorities should therefore demand that the Arab countries absorb these people just as Israel absorbed the Jews the Arab countries threw out. I am appalled by the Israeli acceptance of the expression \"Palestinian refugees\" when in fact the Arab states continuously got rid of residents of their own slums and bussed them en masse into UN refugee camps, where their origin was not recorded. They were thus supported largely by US funding to the UN. This fact was reported in the press decades ago. Surely it must be possible to get the UN to give the actual numbers of their refugee camp entries upon the creation of the state of Israel vs. the entries over the decades afterwards. The percentages from Israel vs. Arab states are less important than the fact that the Arab homelands considered them garbage to be gotten rid of - an army of unemployed with nothing to lose as suicide bombers. When I bring this matter up at discussions with Jews, they dismiss it as something of the past without understanding its importance as the proper answer to the propaganda of the governments manipulating these people. ','2003-05-18 05:17:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2854,1,3492,'4.60.22.46','Samuel Tai','taiss@gte.net','','This strikes me as an oblique reference to the key insight of Siddartha. Maisie suffers because of her desire to believe, and her physical pain confirms her need for belief. The deeper pain is her need to believe in something.\r\n\r\nOnce she frees herself from this desire for belief, she will come to realize her physical pain is foolish and unnecessary.','2003-05-18 05:54:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2855,1,3485,'12.213.148.9','Lizzel','xxx@xxx.xom','','Jonathan:\r\n\r\nCUBA:\r\n\r\n\" I never called it Paradise, but as far as things like hunger, child poverty, infant mortality, homelessness, health care,... they are better off than comparable countries in Latin America \"\r\n\r\nYou might be right, But why the people of Cuba do not have the right to choose ? Maybe in a free election they will still vote for Fidel and Raul (I doubt it.. When the people of Nicaragua got the right to vote they never voted the Sandinistas back into power). However, Some of the former USSR republics did vote the Communists back to into power and that\'s cool (as long as they can change their mind 4 years later)\r\n\r\n','2003-05-18 05:58:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2856,1,3485,'12.249.43.210','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','Lizzel, \r\n\r\nI\'d be asking why the Cuban people haven\'t been able to choose for themselves since at least the Spanish American war, when they had a war of independence from Spanish Colonialism that ushered in a century worth of Colonial intervention from the US. The Platt Amendment, signed into Cuba\'s constitution, gave the US the right to intervene at will. FDR repealed the Platt Amendment with his Good Neighbor Policy, but before the Cuban Revolution nearly all Cuban industries were foreign owned and their government was simply another dictatorship, the difference being he was our dictatorship. For the most part the Cuban people did get to choose when they supported the Cuban revolution against this dictatorship, but have been singled out since then. Since then Castro has remained in power because of this enormous support, but admittedly the revolution has been stagnate, and as is the case when any bureacracy becomes firmly entrenched, it works primarily for its own survival as the highest goal. But who is threatening it\'s survival? I\'d ask them why Cuba can\'t choose. I can\'t imagine a majority of them would choose life in El Salvador or Nicaragua either, but perhaps some of the landlords might.\r\n\r\nAs for the Sandinistas... could you blame them? Somozas old police forces, the Contras, were not very friendly guys. Hopefully Fox News will allow Oliver North to do a hour long special on his memories of smuggling them weapons. Or maybe Pointdexter could do so when he isn\'t too busy trying to run Total Information Awareness. \r\n\r\nO_o','2003-05-18 07:25:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2857,1,3485,'172.201.209.17','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','Since then Castro has remained in power because of this enormous support, but admittedly the revolution has been stagnate, and as is the case when any bureacracy becomes firmly entrenched, it works primarily for its own survival as the highest goal. \r\n\r\nAnd here I thought Castro stays in power by jailing dissidents and shooting people in the head. Incidentally, the revolution has been stagnant because it was a communist revolution. And I somehow doubt that the only result for Cuban democracy is to be like El Salvador or Nicaragua, who still do better than North Korea, Iraq and Iran. ','2003-05-18 07:42:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2858,1,3491,'69.22.15.40','Simian','simian37@aol.com','','I\'m using Microsoft Explorer 6.0 (all right, all right, back off!) and I\'m seeing different fonts. I also see four colors (purple, pale blue, light gray, and, of course, black.) And there are neat dotted lines around each post.\r\n\r\n(Now you know why we like Microsoft, guys!)\r\n\r\n','2003-05-18 08:10:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2859,1,3485,'63.189.1.130','Bart Hall (Kansas)','bart.hall@prairiestarfarm.com','','For decades I have evaluated the worth of peoples\' statements (or writings) on the following basis --if they make significant errors in a discipline I know, I do not trust or value their comments their comments about topics I *don\'t* know. Jonathan fails this \"Aw c\'mon\" test on several levels.\r\n\r\nI speak both Spanish and French with near-native fluency, and spent a day (in the mid-\'70s) translating for Raul Castro (Cuban agriculture minister). I have worked extensively as an agronomist in Central and South America, Jamaica, and Haiti.\r\n\r\nAcross that entire region land \'reform\' has been at best ineffective, and usually much worse at achieving anything remotely like its stated goals. One of the few places it worked well was Lambayeque, Peru where following the 1968 seizures of haciendas by the government, the peasants of two of them banded together and asked their duen~os to continue running things. All other former haciendas in the region are deforested (by the peasants) and two broken up for anyone to make a living. Bolivia is generally worse. Many peasants in Chiapas, Mexico detest the Zapatistas who sought to destroy their coffee business in order to disrupt the economy.\r\n\r\nJonathan, the middle class in Latin America --and Haiti-- is generally *growing* not disappearing. Those Haitians who leave that country for a better life don\'t head for nearby Cuba, but instead brave hundreds of miles of open ocean to get to the US. Apart from academics and their befuddled hangers-on you don\'t see *anybody* trying to get to Cuba.\r\n\r\nThe primary reason for a growing middle class in Latin America is the success of evangelical Christianity in the region. On any given \'Sunday\' there are more evangelical protestants in church than there are roman catholics. Sunday in quotes because the 7th-day adventists (saturday service) are quite numerous.\r\n\r\nEvangelical christians are persuading the men to be responsible husbands and fathers -- they tend to drink less, work harder, keep their jobs, and begin saving. Most saving is in the form of tangible wealth, not financial instruments, so it shows up only in quality of life, not in some academic\'s scan of the numbers. IOW, the old-fashioned \'protestant work ethic\' continues to be the best path to building better lives, much to the chagrin of secular-socialists.\r\n\r\nLast comments about military budgets. The world is governed through the aggressive use of force --or the credible threat of its use. Always has been. Always will be. Current US military budget (in wartime) is 3.7% of GDP. In 1938 (when we were so hollow and pacifist that the Japanese felt we could be beaten) military expenditures were 3.1% of GDP. In the late \'90s they actually dropped below 3% for awhile. \r\n\r\nIf you further work military numbers to compare them to the total *wealth* of the US they drop well below 1%. Any time you can get insurance (and that is what our military is) for under 1% of what you insure, it is a bargain indeed. We are insuring something that people wish to come here for. I have spent more than 20 years outside the US and believe me, we have something worth insuring. Something people all over the world seek for themselves.\r\n\r\nIncluding the freedom for people like Jonathan to emigrate to any so-called workers\' paradise he desires. Jonathan, I will buy you a one-way ticket to Cuba, North Korea, Senegal, Chaostan, Outer Slobovia, or any other such country, provided you renounce your US citizenship and attain permanent residency in the country of your choice.\r\n\r\nM.Simon -- personal note. My older son spent four years in the LANTIRN shop at Eglin ... Eagles mostly.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-18 14:03:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2860,1,3491,'208.37.156.192','Jack','no@no.info','','> (Now you know why we like Microsoft, guys!)\r\n\r\nYes, but can you turn off pop-ups from the prefs in IE?\r\n\r\nAnd tabbed browsing cannot be beat, especially for browsing blogs. You should give Mozilla a whirl ...','2003-05-18 15:04:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2861,1,3485,'66.41.151.19','Rook','cdguy@attbi.com','http://cdguy.blogspot.com/',' If socialism caused the so called failures of Germany\'s, France\'s and Sweden\'s economies, what is the cause of Japan\'s decade long recession? And can you seriously point to so called \"leftist\" politics as the cause of the dot.com collapses? And, if I follow M. Simons argument, then the depression of the 1930\'s proved that capitalism and democracy was a failure. Also, how does this rant against communism and socialism explain Japan’s decade long recession?\r\n If \"it\'s not guns that kill, it\'s the people holding the gun that kill,\" then, it\'s not the \"style\" of government that kills, it\'s the people that are in the government that kill. When governments are filled with ruthless, blood thirsty killers, then the government is bad. When it is filled with ethical, fair-minded people, then the government is good.\r\n Also, the economic health of a country is interdependent with the rest of the world and also has as much to do with the perceptions of it’s people then with any philosophical belief about government.\r\n Sorry, no points from me about any positive merits of M. Simon’s post. Hate is hate, and it’s never good.\r\n “It’s not the governments, it’s the people.”','2003-05-18 19:19:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2862,1,3485,'12.249.43.210','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','Good discussion guys. I\'ll be back around.\r\n\r\nThe failure of the USSR meant a couple things:\r\n\r\nOne, and end to a major pretext for US intervention in the third world. Two, the end of the reign of people in power in the USSR. \r\n\r\nNothing more. There is nothing inherent in the USSR system that \'failed\' or is \'dead\' and is no longer employed succcessfully, least of all governments which \"kill and destroy\". (There are far more governments that do so than the official enemies listed by Simon, and guess who funds most of them?) \r\n\r\nAll Industrial countries are \'Socialist\' in that the state serves as a source of protection and subsidy for economic power. Whether that economic power is \'privately\' owned or \'state\' owned is a matter of semantics -- whatever the coordinator class wants to call itself. \r\n\r\nCiao,\r\nJonathan','2003-05-18 19:36:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2863,1,3485,'68.161.54.179','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','\"What I truly fail to understand is why businesses would seek to bring the free market back, when socializing the costs of private businesses as well as state protectionism is the only guarantee of their power. \"\r\n\r\nwhaaa??\r\n\r\n(BTW you guys are being remarkably patient with our friend from Outer Marxlandia.)','2003-05-18 22:13:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2864,1,3485,'68.161.54.179','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','\"an end to a major pretext for US intervention in the third world. \"\r\n\r\nNot to mention Soviet intervention in the third world, which led to famine and repression in a number of countries and a skewed UN . . . .','2003-05-18 22:16:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2865,1,3485,'206.190.18.23','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The situation in Japan is the result of a different form of socialism.\r\n\r\nThe nature of socialism requires funding failures instead of liquidating them because of JOBs. \r\n\r\nYou do enough of this and an economy gets hardening of the arteries. Japan.\r\n\r\n====================================================\r\n\r\nTo all the socialists posting here: socialism will not die in a cataclysm tomorrow. The decay will be slow at first accelerating as time goes on. What I am pinting out is that it is slightly past it\'s peak. Because you cannot tax your way into prosperity. \r\n\r\nThe biggest clue here is that Germany is trying to reign in job protection laws in order to get some vigor in their economy. France tried to adjust it\'s pension system as far back as 1995.\r\n\r\nBTW you do not help your cause by saying socialist economics was not a big factor in the USSR collapse. Even the Chinese know better than that.\r\n\r\nWhen I was a socialist it was a lot of fun. Kind of like being a minister in a church. We always knew what was best and there for had no compunction in imagining forcing \"the best\" on others - for their own good. So enjoy your religion while it still has some repute. It is headed for the ash heap of history.\r\n\r\n================================================\r\n\r\nJonathan,\r\n\r\n How exactly do you propose getting in on deciding which microprocessor to use for which weapons system? You want to vote on every decision? How do you propose handling 100,000 votes a day?\r\n\r\n For good or ill we have a representative government. You influence the system by your votes and your opinion. How you spend your money. Where you work. Who you associate with.\r\n\r\n I do understand your distress. You in your wisdom know exactly what to do and the people in the country are not giving you the influence that is your due and they are not voting for what you want which is noble and good. \r\n\r\n There is always Cuba, or North Korea. Or if you are really hard up France. \r\n\r\n=================================================\r\n\r\nJonathan,\r\n\r\n I would never try to insult you (I have been in flame wars since 1979 or so so I do it pretty good). But I have no problem ripping your ideas. Held them all once upon a time. On further reflection and some years of experience I can tell you those ideas are a crock and the odds are good you will be personally sorry because of the injury those ideas have caused so many.\r\n\r\nThe best antidote is Hayek \"The Road to Serfdom\". You might also wish to study the economics of the dope market which is one of the purest expressions of capitalism available today. The key is - supply always meets demand at a profitable price. It is such a deep part of human nature that no government can stop it. If your economics are not market based they are not founded on human nature and will fail.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-18 22:20:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2866,1,3483,'68.161.54.179','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Nice to see someone else liked \"Waking Life.\" No one I know seemed to notice its plot resemblance to \"The Sixth Sense\". . . .','2003-05-18 22:21:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2867,1,3485,'206.190.18.23','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','From the NYT.\r\n\r\nStill, the loyalty of many older intellectuals has not waned, even as evidence of the injustices and economic failure of the Castro regime has grown.\r\n\r\n\"Ultimately, you may have to resort to a psychological explanation,\" suggests Paul Hollander, the author of \"Political Pilgrims,\" a book about the fascination of Western intellectuals with Communist regimes. \"It becomes very difficult for people to let go of these beliefs and commitments, especially when they were made at a young age. Their sense of identity derives from the political stance they have taken.\" \r\n\r\n=================================\r\n\r\nA young man is one who is still capable of changing his opinion. And old man is one who cannot. I have known 70 year old young men and 18 year old fossils. -- Simon','2003-05-18 22:24:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2868,1,3485,'206.190.18.23','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Jonathan,\r\n\r\n If capitalism allied with science has not raised the living standards of the masses what has? The USSR? Cuba? Mao\'s China? North Korea? The correlation between material wealth and these regimes is a negative one.\r\n\r\n I know you are incensed at what appears to be the obvious defects of capitalism. The only problem is that all other systems are worse in practice if better in theory.\r\n\r\n Never confuse theory with practice. That is the job of the French intellectual. They are quite good at it too.','2003-05-18 22:46:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2869,1,3494,'68.69.25.53','Howard Veit','oracle2@adephia.net','http://www.oraculations.blogspot.com','The thing we need to add in this very good essay by Den Beste is that our current situation in the \"occupation\" (reconstruction) of Iraq is totally wrong, has been obviously wrong for several weeks, and shows no sign of being \"fixed\". One of the most serious problems is the decay of the Democratic Party to an \"America is at Fault\" party that cannot involve us in a debate. I have a post at:\r\nhttp://www.oraculations.blogspot.com/2003_05_01_oraculations_archive.html#200304352\r\n\r\nWe are about to blow everything we gained by refusing to deal with the water and electricity problems in the country, events covered today with a ton of links at: http://www.oraculations.blogspot.com/2003_05_01_oraculations_archive.html#200307031\r\n\r\nKids are dying from the water, there is no decision to just jam American contractors down their throats and repair the electrical grid, and the absolute refusal to stop the looters until yesterday is awful. This is not a Den Beste \"setback\", this is a Bush disaster and we could have anti-American riots on our hands by Tuesday.','2003-05-18 23:46:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2870,1,3485,'12.249.42.85','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','Ok, first off, let me address all of the \"love it or leave it\" comments in one big bundle neverminding the fact that nobody actually knows where I live, or where I have lived...\r\n\r\nFor one, this conception of the government is diametrically opposite of any true concept of democracy. In fact, it is a fascist conception of government. It isn\'t the government that is granting me liberty, or the right to disagree with it, it is the people. You can appreciate these liberties, be critical of the government, and not be hypocritical. That is the whole point of having free speech and a democratic government in the first place. Someone suggesting that I leave for being ungrateful, seems to me, to have something similar to the abused wives syndrome. The government is not your master, you do not owe it a thing, not even your loyalty. It owes that to you.\r\n\r\nTo anyone that makes that suggestion, I suggest that you go live under the guns of some thugs that are supported by your tax dollars, who commit violence and political repression with impunity because they serve the political interests of US business. Go live in Turkey, Colombia, Indonesia, or Saudi Arabia... all rampant violators of human rights and at the same time leading recipients of US Aid and arms. Then come back to the US, and see if you\'re still comfortable being apologists for these policies.\r\n\r\nI for one, do not even attempt to argue life is better in North Korea, or Cuba. Notice the names people bring up... always official enemies of the US. But not once have I heard anyone be critical of a country who is obedient to the US, where the situation is far worse, both politically and economically. What was that wonderful quote from Orwell? The nationalist not only doesn\'t mind the crimes of his side, but often doesn\'t even know about them? \r\n\r\nSomeone mentioned people leaving Haiti and coming to the US, not Cuba. Do we let those refugees in? No. Do we let the Cuban ones in? Yes. Why? Because Haiti\'s suffering happens with OUR support. Anybody ever ask themselves why a country like Haiti, where a majority are starving, is EXPORTING food? Who pushes that policy on Haiti? \r\n\r\nWhat I realize, and what you all need to realize, is that our high standard of living is dependent upon the suffering of poor people in other countries. It is and has been dependent on subverting genuine democracy in the third world, who must serve their role as cheap labor sources and markets for excess production. But hey, out of sight out of mind. If the corporate media doesn\'t report on it it must not be happening.\r\n\r\nSomeone mentioned the military budget \"insuring\" the freedoms we have here. It is also insuring that no country, no matter how small, can choose an independent path that is hostile to business, lest the serve an example to anybody else, those more or less being the exact words of US policy makers describing Grenada, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Chile, Cuba, Guatemala, the list goes on.\r\n\r\nMany attempts at alternatives have failed, but not inside a vaccum and not solely of their own accord. Would they have failed if US intellectuals weren\'t making apologies and justification for the US supproted repression used to stop these \"rotten apples\"?\r\n\r\nSoviet Style Socialism is not the solution. It came to power by murdering democratic socialist movements. But, the world is not limited to two choices. Neoliberalism is also not the solution. These have all been failures for the world\'s poor. It is time to start thinking outside of a system that seeks to increase dependence on commodities, and the requisite pollution, whether from the state or from any other unaccountable, totalitarian structures. It is time to start thinking of a system that is both participatory, democratic, and sustainable. The system you guys obediently cheerlead is not it.\r\n\r\n\"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism, because it is a merger of State and corporate power.\" -- Mussolini','2003-05-19 06:16:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2871,1,3491,'69.22.15.40','Simian','Simain32@aol.com','','RE: \"Can you turn off pop-ups?\"\r\n\r\nI\'ve got a free-standing pop-up killer that works just fine for me.\r\n\r\nI\'ve also got my Bookmarks -- Favorites, (click.)\r\n\"Tabbed browsing\" seems to me like simply having several instances\r\n of browser pages open at the same time. Memory hogging?\r\n\r\n(But OK, I\'ll check out Mozilla. Thanks.)\r\n\r\n','2003-05-19 07:27:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2872,1,3498,'208.20.220.69','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','We need a new term of political derision: Roadmapping. (Once upon a time, in the Carter years, this would have been \"frameworking,\" but that was then.)\r\n\r\nRoadmapping is the practice of preparing fictitious peace plans that everyone knows cannot be executed, because the road -- the ideological infrastructure for them -- does not exist and cannot be built any time soon. The point of roadmapping is cosmetic, and sometimes financial (i.e., to get foreign aid to continue or resume). The effect of roadmapping is what Dr. Samuel Johnson called \"the general degradation of human testimony\"; with each nod to the counterfactual by statesmen and interest-group pleaders, the general public becomes less willing to believe anything they might say in the future.\r\n\r\nThe ideological infrastructure for a comprehensive peace between Israelis and Palestinians is mutual respect, however grudging. This cannot be conjured into existence. It has to grow over time, with trade, the development of endurance for differing customs and traditions, and the forcible suppression of violence.\r\n\r\nInasmuch as the Israelis have been doing everything in their power to promote that growth, and the Palestinians\' \"leaders\" have been doing everything in their power to prevent it -- the evidence of this is copious; I shan\'t trouble to repeat it all here and now -- we cannot expect any progress in the near term. When the Palestinians finally accept that Israel is here to stay and cease to preach its destruction, the growth can begin.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-19 13:25:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2873,1,3500,'66.122.50.49','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','I hope Maxim got a chance to read the Thom article. I look forward to his continued defence of the indefencible.\r\n','2003-05-19 16:22:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2874,1,3307,'12.236.181.150','guest pirate','noah@ark.net','','then there are the vast majority of the ppl who live on the net that have zero respect for copyright and only care to nag his butt for lameness - which is forgivable - he\'s gonna be here a long time, too - so might as well get in the habit of making peace with the neighbors...','2003-05-19 18:26:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2875,1,3485,'63.197.201.165','taylor','nomore72@hotmail.com','http://none','Joe, M. Simon and faithfull readers,\r\n\r\nAfter stumbling upon \"The Death of Socialism\" and subsequent comments (having never seen or read anything from this blog before) one thing is clear: comments by \"Jonathan\" have put you all to shame! He seriously challenged your thesis (e.g. Socialism is Dead) and I have yet to read a convincing response. Many of his points were totally ignored and his main argument remains unscathed: Socialism can\'t be \"Dead\" because almost ALL nations of the world are socialist (including the US) - the difference is merely in the degree of socialism. I remember learning this in high school, for Godsakes.\r\n\r\nThanks for maintaing the blog. It was very interesting, though I\'m still not sure what was more entertaining: Reading Jonathan\'s logical, clearly defined arguments illustrated and supported with numerous examples, or reading your backpeddaling and outburts as you faced glaring weaknesses in the logic of your own worldviews. As Jonathan points out: The \"success of capitalism\" you hail is even more of an illusion because 1) the wealth and prosperity enjoyed by the US population is at the expense of the rest of the world, and 2) current rates of consumption of natural resorces required to maintain this prosperity are not sustainable. \r\n\r\nThe freedoms we enjoy are also more limited than you might think...Noone espousing such views as Jonathan will ever be given a voice on a major media outlet, and if so, you better believe the FBI would be showing up at his door... \r\n','2003-05-19 22:31:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2876,1,3485,'199.168.33.61','Robin Roberts','finalprotfire@attbi.com','','\"As Jonathan points out: The \"success of capitalism\" you hail is even more of an illusion because 1) the wealth and prosperity enjoyed by the US population is at the expense of the rest of the world, and 2) current rates of consumption of natural resorces required to maintain this prosperity are not sustainable. \"\r\n
Both claims have long been debunked as complete myths.\r\n','2003-05-20 00:14:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2877,1,3485,'132.239.115.209','taylor','nomore72@hotmail.com','http://none','RR,\r\n\r\n\"Both claims have long been debunked as complete myths\".\r\n\r\nWhere was the shirt on your back made? How much were the workers who made it paid? How old was the worker? What are the environmental regulations in that country? What role did/does US influence play in establishing/maintaining the power structure of that country. What is the profit margin of the retailer and marketer of that brand of shirt? In other words, the US clothing industry is a prime example of how US companies turn much larger profit margins by \"taking advantage\" of lower wages, poorer working conditions, lax enviromental laws, etc. found in other countries. By having clothing \"assembled\" in other countries, companies like Nike turn a bigger profit. Some of the benefits are passed on to US consumers in the form of cheaper clothing prices. Meanwhile, other countries bear the environmental burden, rampant child labor, dangerous working conditions, slave labor (in some cases), etc. Are you suggesting that this does not happen? \r\n\r\nSecond, are you suggesting that there is an infinite supply of oil on this planet? Even the most optimistic reports suggest extractable global oil reserves will run out in this century. Please don\'t focus on minor details of these questions. Why not just give some credible references (i.e. which employ science, not idealogical rhetoric) that \"debunked\" either of these claims as \"complete myths\".\r\n\r\nAlso, I noticed that you have chosen to respond to my secondary comment. Will anyone acknowledge/respond to Jonathan\'s main challege to Mr. Simon\'s central thesis? ','2003-05-20 02:20:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2878,1,3447,'216.17.147.99','Robi','robi@robisen.com','http://www.robisen.com','Poland now has decided to take over control of Northern Iraq and is in the process of doing so. What’s interesting is that some people now see Poland as more of a world player than either *Germany or France*','2003-05-20 03:04:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2879,1,3267,'216.254.192.65','F. Horan','cub4itoff@primus.ca','','I was among those who felt great relief when PFC Lynch was rescued. What I do not believe was the way she was rescued as reported by CNN and others. I would like to know more about the report alluding to the fact that the Iraqis put her in an ambulance and tried to get her to the American authorities, only to be fired upon, requiring a hasty return to the hospital. Is this story factual? If so, it has certainly been played down. Mind you, true or not, this remarkable ending made us all feel so much better, as this teenager was adopted by all parents and her safety was our prime concern. She no doubt experienced an ordeal most of us don\'t want to think about. Our hopes and prayers are with her to have a happy life without the stresses and strains of the overly zealous media. She will need her privacy. I only wish that she is not placed in a fish bowl with the release of a movie depicting her ordeal. ','2003-05-20 03:11:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2880,1,3502,'64.81.34.133','Jeff','lajhs35@yahoo.com','','I say dose \'em with acid and play the Velvet Underground\'s \"White Light, White Heat\" over and over and over. If \'Sister Ray\' don\'t get \'em, we should immediately surrender!','2003-05-20 05:09:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2881,1,3502,'172.163.164.197','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','Oh, \"Sister Ray\" is perfect. They should get some Norwegian Death Metal. Bad bad stuff. Maybe some Rammstein and White Zombie as well.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-20 05:24:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2882,1,3495,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','I\'m always amazed at California\'s dream that we can unilaterally create a consumer market for technology that doesn\'t work yet.\r\n\r\nAnd as a liberal, I keep trying to explain to my friends that we could simply find the 5% of cars that really pollute badly, crush them, and give their owners shiny new ULEV Honda Civics, and both have cleaner air and save several hundred million in the higher vehicle costs for subsidizing the electric/hybrid car fleet.\r\n\r\nNot \"gosh-wow\" enough, I guess...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-20 06:12:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2883,1,3485,'12.249.42.85','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','The idea that there is even a free market that countries compete on internationally barely holds up to the most basic scrutiny. \r\n\r\nSeveral large bureacracies, multinational by name but more or less dominated by Washington, New York, Europe and Japan, have control of nearly all international trade. An overwhelming majority of the economy is speculative, as in more or less imaginary, and a majority of the world\'s wealth is in the hands of -- I\'d guess -- 5% of its population. Internally in the US the picture isn\'t that much different. I\'d like to have a debate with Simon or somebody else about just how much powerful US interests respect the free market, instead of using \"free trade\" agreements signed by governments which guarantee trade will work in favor of the wealthy, marginalizing entire sovereign goverments... or using other bureacracies which further the monopolization of wealth, and unaccountable, uncontested control over various sectors of life. \r\n\r\nPerhaps a debate about concentrated media ownership and the FCC\'s role in furthering it, which is major considering what the media controls in this digital age -- they virtually elect our government. Or we can debate about one of the free trade agreements or international institutions like the World Bank of IMF bureacracies, centrally controlled, and democratically unaccountable, just like the US(A)RR.\r\n\r\nOf course, the illusion that there is competition helps, but it helps more when intellectuals encourage it with religious devotion. The only real significant competition there is is between, for example... Haiti and El Salvador. Haitians are willing to dip their hands in corrosive chemicals to make baseballs for a quarter an hour. El Salvadorean children are willing to do it for fifteen cents, a more competitive offer. I have to take it, in order to increase my share prices by cutting labor costs, or my competitor will take it and I\'ll be out of business... but of course that is the market acting as an invisible hand to raise living conditions.\r\n\r\nBut other than that, no real free competitive market... So, a note to end on: if that is Simon\'s central idea -- that the free market and \"democracy\" has triumphed over \"Socialism\", then it was a good effort but I\'m not quite convinced.','2003-05-20 06:35:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2884,1,3485,'68.48.204.47','Gregory Arthur','arthurg@umd.edu','http://pointoforder.blogspot.com','M Simon said: If capitalism allied with science has not raised the living standards of the masses what has? \r\n\r\nThis is sort of like saying \"If socialism allied with a free market has not raised the living standard of the masses, what has?\" It\'s slightly misleading inasmuch as it seems to be assuming that the science portion naturally comes from capitalism.\r\n\r\nThat is, I am sorry to say, false. Look at practically any large research advance in the past hundred years - almost invariably, they are funded in large part by public money. As it stands, AIDS research is almost 96% government funds in the US. Look to things like the interstate system, the NIH, the NSF, the CDC, and on and on. This sort of public-good oriented facility is exactly the type of thing a socialist government tends to propegate in large measure.\r\n\r\nMoreover, many times people have acted as if the incentive for profit fails to exist within redistributive societies. Essentially, huh? The only argument which has actually been put forth is the following: The USSR, a totalitarian communist state, did not have as much money as the US during the Cold war. Volumes have been written on the subject, but realize that even if that\'s true, the logical consequent isn\'t that any form of redistribution within a society is bad, just that doing it stupidly is. Imagine if every employee in a company had a given number of shares of stock based on position. That\'s socialism implimented in a modern market society. Why would this remove profit incentive?\r\n\r\nThus far all I\'ve really gotten from M. Simon is that he agrees in large measure with the use of taxed funds towards socialist type programs which improve the standard of living, which he readily accepts as beneficial, yet he somehow wants a mystical \"capitalist\" economy. ','2003-05-20 07:29:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2885,1,3485,'68.48.204.47','Gregory Arthur','arthurg@umd.edu','http://pointoforder.blogspot.com','M Simon said: If capitalism allied with science has not raised the living standards of the masses what has? \r\n\r\nThis is sort of like saying \"If socialism allied with a free market has not raised the living standard of the masses, what has?\" It\'s slightly misleading inasmuch as it seems to be assuming that the science portion naturally comes from capitalism.\r\n\r\nThat is, I am sorry to say, false. Look at practically any large research advance in the past hundred years - almost invariably, they are funded in large part by public money. As it stands, AIDS research is almost 96% government funds in the US. Look to things like the interstate system, the NIH, the NSF, the CDC, and on and on. This sort of public-good oriented facility is exactly the type of thing a socialist government tends to propegate in large measure.\r\n\r\nMoreover, many times people have acted as if the incentive for profit fails to exist within redistributive societies. Essentially, huh? The only argument which has actually been put forth is the following: The USSR, a totalitarian communist state, did not have as much money as the US during the Cold war. Volumes have been written on the subject, but realize that even if that\'s true, the logical consequent isn\'t that any form of redistribution within a society is bad, just that doing it stupidly is. Imagine if every employee in a company had a given number of shares of stock based on position. That\'s socialism implimented in a modern market society. Why would this remove profit incentive?\r\n\r\nThus far all I\'ve really gotten from M. Simon is that he agrees in large measure with the use of taxed funds towards socialist type programs which improve the standard of living, which he readily accepts as beneficial, yet he somehow wants a mystical \"capitalist\" economy. ','2003-05-20 07:29:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2886,1,3502,'12.253.20.38','scott h.','scott_helg@yahoo.com','','Clarence Carter, Strokin\'.','2003-05-20 08:06:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2887,1,3502,'12.253.20.38','scott h.','scott_helg@yahoo.com','','But wait \"We\'ve only just begun!\" to torture you. \r\n\"Don\'t pull your love out\" on me baby! \r\n\"Tell me something good\", tell me that you like it, yeah. (Rufus and Shaka Khan) \r\n\"Don\'t it make your brown eyes blue?\"\r\n\"Midnight at the Oasis\" hah.\r\n\"Hello\", is it me you\'re looking for? (Lionel Ritchie)\r\nHow about the \"Superbowl Shuffle\"\r\n\r\nI bet you think you\'re tough. You probably think there ain\'t nothing gonna \"Breaka my stride\", ain\'t nothing gonna hold you down. Oh no. You\'ve got to keep on movin\'. (Matthew Wilder)\r\n\r\nWell, I\'m solid, \"Solid as a Rock\". And nothing changed it...the thrill is still hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot. (Ashford and Simpson).\r\n','2003-05-20 08:32:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2888,1,3502,'68.50.149.33','Lola','lola@his.com','','Anything by Tiny Tim.','2003-05-20 10:33:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2889,1,3501,'68.50.149.33','Lola','lola@his.com','','I think the difference may be that it is truly a global society now - you can access material on the net, and there\'s the tv media. So, news spreads very fast. Plus, the West is no longer occupied in fighting each other as was the case in the period from 1600s to 1800s, so their attention is very much directed towards the Middle East where the action is.','2003-05-20 10:39:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2890,1,3502,'205.188.209.7','perry d','apdcbd@aol.com','','Any Rap','2003-05-20 12:07:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2891,1,3502,'208.20.220.69','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','\"Knock Three Times,\" by Tony Orlando & Dawn\r\n\"Can\'t Take My Eyes Off Of You,\" by Frankie Valli\r\n\"Release Me,\" by Engelbert Humperdinck\r\n\"Like A Virgin,\" by Madonna.\r\n\"They\'re Coming To Take Me Away, Ha Ha!\" by Napoleon XIV\r\nGrand Funk Railroad\'s entire oeuvre\r\nAnything ever recorded by a soap opera idol or movie star, e.g., \"Respect Yourself\" by Bruce Willis\" or \"All I Need\" by Jack Wagner\r\n\r\n...and if that doesn\'t work, we\'ll whip out the Schoenberg!\r\n','2003-05-20 12:22:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2892,1,3502,'68.169.200.216','Trish Wilson','asherah@aol.com','http://users.adelphia.net/~enitria/trish_wilson/blog/','Didn\'t we already try to drive Castro nuts with loud music? If we did, it didn\'t work.\r\n\r\nThat said, I\'d recommend either \"Christmas With the Cowsills\" or \"Pat Boone In A Metal Mood.\" That should drive Hussein\'s henchmen mad cow crazy.','2003-05-20 12:30:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2893,1,3502,'205.188.209.7','Christian','chrisleb1@aol.com','','Forget music, put \'em in front of cable TV, and let my eldest son zap with the remote from station to station at 2-second intervals for days on end.','2003-05-20 14:22:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2894,1,3502,'205.188.209.7','Christian','chrisleb1@aol.com','','But if it\'s gotta be music, how about \"Nixon in China,\" or anything by Philip Glass?','2003-05-20 14:24:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2895,1,3492,'198.178.200.5','Lola','lola@his.com','','Suffering is meant to build up one\'s character. Life is not supposed to be an easy ride.','2003-05-20 14:47:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2896,1,3502,'214.3.86.10','jimbodogg','msgmassey@hotmail.com','','David Hasselhoff\'s rendition of \"Hooked on a Feeling\".','2003-05-20 14:53:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2897,1,3502,'128.222.32.10','cynic','noway@nospam.com','','\"Don\'t Worry - Be Happy\"\r\n','2003-05-20 15:06:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2898,1,3485,'206.190.18.9','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Gregory,\r\n\r\n The truth that we have learned from experience is this: the more capitalist the economy the more productive the economy.\r\n\r\n As you so correctly point out there is no \"perfect\" capitalist economy on the planet today. More is the pity. Milton Friedman says if we had a perfectly capitalist economy in America (government limited to it\'s constitutional functions) then the American economy would be growing at 10% a year. At that rate had we started down this road in 1953 the economy today would be 26 times larger than it is now. If the lowest segment of the population only captured 10% of that gain poor people today would be more than 2 1/2 times better off than they are now. Those scraping by on $12K per year would be gliding at $30K. Those getting by on $20K a year would be living large at $50K. If the middle class got 40% of the gain a person now earning $35K a year would be getting $350K. \r\n\r\n So I do agree that there are no perfectly capitalist economies on the planet today. What we do see is that the more capitalist the economy the greater the gain in welfare over time for the people living under a particular system.\r\n\r\n You can see the future if you look to Germany and France. Germany is trying to loosen it\'s labor laws to get some growth in it\'s economy. France is trying to reduce it\'s social security system which is slowly strangling it\'s economy. France has been trying to do this since 1995. They are currently giving it another try without much luck. Basically the public sector unions are strangling the economy.\r\n\r\nThe simple rule is this: socialism (however implimented) strangles economies. Hayek in \"The Road to Serfdom\" has said it much better than I can and he said it almost 60 years ago when the issue was still in doubt. In this respect I am just a street sweeper cleaning up long after the parade has passed.\r\n\r\nBTW I am going to go back and look at what taxed funds to improve the economy I favored. I don\'t think I have favored any other than the minimal government functions of roads, sewers, and rights of way, add in police and courts to settle disputes and minimize fraud and violence and that is the end of it. In addition I do not firmly hold the belief that all those functions mentioned must be public. In Minnesota they are starting a private road program. What I have said is that they will not all be eliminated over night. This is not the same as favoring them. ','2003-05-20 15:07:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2899,1,3485,'206.190.18.9','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','taylor,\r\n\r\nJust because socialism is dead does not mean all vestiges of it have disappeared. \r\n\r\nMy claim is that socialist solutions to economic/social problems are no longer the desired solutions. I give France and Germany as examples. I have yet to see the examples be refuted.\r\n\r\nWhen the horse pulling the cart dies, it\'s carcass is not buried instantly. Not only that but the wagon it pulled might stay in tthe barn for years after it is replaced by a horseless carraige, \"just in case\". With human institutions it often takes a very long time for institutions to die. There are still segments of our legal code that are influenced by the divine rights of kings despite the fact that there has been no king ruling America for over 200 years. \r\n\r\nTo expect all vestiges of socialism to disappear with it\'s death is silly. It is a straw man argument when it comes to how humans do politics. There is inertia. Tremendous inertia. Usually the best you can expect is that the bad solutions will no longer be applied to new problems. Any retroactive clearing of bad solutions from old problems is gravy. So let me recap a little history and then predict something. History: welfare reform. The future: school vouchers.\r\n\r\nI do think this points out one very important problem in American politics these days. Rampant utopianism. The belief in the perfect whatever. As I pointed out previously I have had these utopian dreams. Now what I hope for is not perfection but movement in the right direction.\r\n','2003-05-20 15:29:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2900,1,3495,'66.122.50.49','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','The problem is not the \"gosh-wow\" factor, it is the \"punish the innocent through command and control of all activity by unaccountable agents of the government\" default position the big governmenters take. This is usually liberals, but conservatives do it too, see airport searches of grandmothers. \r\n\r\nOnce a bureaucracy is given an assignment, it will broaden the definition of the assignment to maximize the scope of its activities and, more importantly, budget. The most egregious example is the public schools, now run by the CTA for the purpose of maximizing the dues paid to the CTA by members. If teaching takes place, that is coincidental but cannot be monitored by STAR testing for fear of endangering the dues base and giving power to the consumer through accountability.\r\n\r\nIf the problem originally identified is solved, the bureaucracy is penalized. Thus, it is in the interest of the bureaucracy to not solve the problem. That is why most problems are best left to the market. It is unattractive to see the baser human instincts at work, as they are in a marketplace, but ultimately it will reward those who solve problems for others.\r\n\r\nGovernment should restrict its activities to finding and punishing those who break bright line rules for behaviour that are below the level we wish to allow to operate in the marketplace; for example operating a gross polluter.','2003-05-20 16:04:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2901,1,3485,'206.190.18.9','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','I think another instructive example is Israel. They are seriously discussing the reduction of government interference in the economy for the first time in 50 years. The fact that the discussion is serious and at the highest levels indicates a shift. The fact that there is no immediate significant progress shows what kinds of inertia we have in human societies. \r\n\r\nOr we can look at a couple of examples in America of government helping some while hurting others.\r\n\r\nTake my town. We are steel consumers. The new steel tariffs are destroying our industry. Our unemployment rate is second highest in the nation. The problem here is that there is more supply than demand for steel in the world and Americans are the high cost producers. So we raise tariffs on American consumers to give American steel producers more income. This drives the business that would ordinarily go to American steel consumers overseas. Ultimately reducing the market for American steel because since we are the high cost producers in the world, American steel producers must rely mostly on American steel consumers and only for the amount of the transportation differential above market price.\r\n\r\nOr take another American example. Government in it\'s never ending quest for more money decided to tax luxury goods like large boats by an extra 10%. Boat building in America died. A lot of people lost their jobs. The boat buyers went to Europe to buy their boats and used the 10% differential to pay for transportation.\r\n\r\nStealing from the rich (through taxation) to help the poor is a sure way to destroy an economy. The examples I have given are of course concentrated so it is possible to see clearly the problem. What has gotten us in our current mess is that the rise in taxes hasn\'t been 10% in a jump on a few industries or a 40% tariff increase. It has been in nibbles of .25%, .75%, 1.1%, so we barely notice. And instead of being concentrated in one industry it is diffused across all industries so we can\'t compare to see what might be the results in other circumstances.\r\n\r\nWhat is possible to see because of the internet is what other countries are doing. Germany is a prime example. Government protects the jobs of the German workers. In the last ten years we have experienced on of the greatest world wide economic booms of all time. During that whole time German unemployment has been stuck at around 10%. American unemployment during that period went below 4% and seems to have peaked now at around 6%. Did I mention that the French are in a boat similar to the Germans and that they have been trying to reform their system since 1995 without success?\r\n\r\nThe time we are living in is an inflection point. What you will be seeing is countries competing by lowering their tax rates and decreasing the levels of government funded social programs and government regulations. Let us look at the past to see if we can see the future. The past: welfare reform. The future: school vouchers. \r\n\r\nOr take the Bush tax cuts. That will attract more rich people to make their homes in America. A good thing, no? Or how about lowering the cost of doing business in America to attract more businesses to America? A good thing, no? Now the defict is bad but that can be cured by holding the line on government spending for a few years. Which is not a bad idea.\r\n\r\nSocialism is dead. Because it is non-competative.\r\n','2003-05-20 17:10:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2902,1,3502,'68.173.27.144','briz','ivy231@hotmail.com','','That song, Welcome to our World of Toys, that you hear over and over when you enter FAO Schwarz.','2003-05-20 17:24:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2903,1,3485,'206.190.18.9','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The kind of economy we are living in requires us to constantly increase the skill levels of our population. The command and control systems currently in place do not fit our real needs. They are expensive but that is not the worst part. They do not work well.\r\n\r\nWe have a voucher system of sorts that seems to work reasonably well and that is our college system. The envy of the world. The key to college is that the consumer pays at least some of the cost and gets to chose the institution. So the move to vouchers is pretty obvious in the school system. \r\nSo where are we with vouchers? Under .1% penetration of the market. Who wants it the most? The parents of those most poorly served by the market.\r\n\r\nWhat is becoming clear is that we are in a competition not only with other businesses in the world but other governments. If we want to stay competative we will need to cut costs and improve services.\r\n','2003-05-20 17:30:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2904,1,3502,'65.64.234.165','ekg','evayario@lycos.com','','Turangalila by Messian. Horrid crap, a perfect example of the \"emperor\'s new clothes\" genre of avant-garde western art music. \r\n\r\nAlso the source for Lila\'s name in Futurama.','2003-05-20 19:12:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2905,1,3502,'62.254.223.103','Alexander','hokie04693@yahoo.com','','I only had to think about this for a few seconds. Only use it on the hard core Ba\'ath party members. Even then, you might get called on it by Amnesty Int.\r\n\r\n\"Stage Fright\" by Lynn Minmei (Reba West)\r\n\r\nFrom Robotech.\r\n\r\nAnd for the prison guards of the children\'s jail: Having write a five page dissertation on why Lynn Minmei is the greatest character ever.','2003-05-20 19:42:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2906,1,3502,'12.107.152.37','NYer','djn1234@aol.com','','\"My Girl Likes to Party All the Time,\" by Eddie Murphy, or an endless loop of \"Come on Eileen.\"','2003-05-20 20:11:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2907,1,3502,'199.168.32.10','Robin Roberts','finalprotfire@attbi.com','','\"You Oughta Know\" by Alanis Morrisette.','2003-05-20 21:14:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2908,1,3500,'66.176.136.29','Steve H.','steve@littletinywawa.com','http://www.littletinylies.com','Thanks for the link!','2003-05-20 21:29:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2909,1,3502,'65.95.83.125','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','I can\'t believe I left out Paul Anka\'s \"She\'s Having My Baby.\" \r\n\r\nThis would be particularly fitting for those of Saddam\'s associates who had rape as part of their job description; in fact, I\'d put them in a cell and run it for a month or so even if I didn\'t think they could tell us anything. Can\'t be too careful, and all that.','2003-05-20 21:31:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2910,1,3502,'198.175.229.250','Kevin Shaum','kevin@lazypundit.com','http://lazypundit.com/','\"The Safety Dance\", Men Without Hats\r\n\"I\'m Turning Japanese\", The Vapors\r\n\"You Spin Me Round (Like a Record)\", Dead or Alive\r\n\"Take On Me\", a-ha\r\n\"Karma Chameleon\", Culture Club\r\n\"Wake Me Up Before You Go-go\", Wham!\r\n\r\nWhat can I say: MTV scarred me for life.','2003-05-20 21:47:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2911,1,3501,'12.23.2.98','Diana','prairie_moon@earthlink.net','','Joe, give us a break. The Saudis have *always* been sensitive to US public opinion. Back in the 1970s and 1980s they trumpeted their religiosity to the born-again Texans who pumped their oil because it sold. They made analogies between Ibn Saud and cowboys because it sold.\r\n\r\nCharles is right and you are wrong. \r\n\r\nI don\'t care how much you and Charles may have in common, if you are taken in one tiny little bit by this then you are mistaken. This is no wedge. It is simply an illusion.','2003-05-20 22:01:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2912,1,3502,'162.84.139.153','Donna','kioman2000@yahoo.com','','Anything by \"Air Supply\".','2003-05-20 22:27:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2913,1,3501,'68.186.206.56','Tatterdemalian','tatterdemalian@hotmail.com','','\r\nThe Muslim world has had a history of intellectual movements asking very similar questions to the ones noted above, going back to the 1600s and picking up special force in the 1800s.\r\n
\r\nThe question is, where are those intellectual movements now?\r\n\r\nDead, destroyed, killed by their fellow Muslims and burned as heretics.\r\n\r\nIslam isn\'t like Christianity or Judaism. One of the ways it differs is not that it is extremely resistant to any kind or reform, but that, by placing all emphasis on pleasing an uncaring God (rather than an angry but just God, or a loving God), any religious figure can reverse any reform, no matter how much it improves their quality of living, simply by announcing that it is displeasing to Allah.\r\n\r\nThere is no height of intellectual achievement, no pinnacle of civilization, that Islam is not capable of backsliding from, right back into another dark age of terror and violence. We could make them richer and more civilized than the US, with equality for women, an enormous middle class of merchants and researchers, and a true democratic government, but the second the Judeo-Christian cultures let them free to pursue their own destiny, they would slaughter the heretics of the middle class, lock the women in their homes, and return political control to the mullahs.\r\n\r\nNo introspective or philosophical tradition has ever been able to change this, and I doubt any will be able to now.\r\n','2003-05-20 22:33:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2914,1,3502,'207.24.168.10','Adam','anhirsch@yahoo.com','http://www.daiblog.blogspot.com','REM: Shiny Happy People. Looped. A couple of hours of that, and I\'d confess to anything.','2003-05-20 22:43:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2915,1,3495,'65.95.83.125','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Here in Ontario, the government forces cars to meet emission testing standards periodically. I assume this happens in California as well. Result is to take the most polluting cars off the roads, though it happens without compensation to the owner so those penalized by this measure are often those who can least afford it.\r\n\r\nThe problem with all government scheme proposals is that they often assume a static target environment, rather than accounting for the results of both public-choice economics (which Richard discusses here) and incentive-driven behaviours.\r\n\r\nFor instance, if new cars or financial incentives were on offer in conjunction with an inspection scheme, mechanics and auto shops would start reporting MUCH higher rates of failure so their customers could get a government rebate on their new vehicle purchases. Figure out a way to minimize gaming of the system, and sunset it so the tendency to grow its mandate is cut off, and your \"crush & replace\" idea plus inspections would be very effective.','2003-05-20 23:33:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2916,1,3495,'172.153.82.37','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','Joe, you may find it interesting that Canada has been mulling a Kyoto pull-out.','2003-05-20 23:43:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2917,1,3502,'64.132.227.65','KevinM','kmunden@atec.com','','Invasion of the Dragonmen/Sadie Hawkins Atom Bomb/Escape through the Air Vent - Man or Astroman\r\nThe Battle of New Orleans - Johnny Horton\r\nServe, Obey - Servotron\r\nBitchin\' Camero - The Dead Milkmen\r\nInstitutionalized - Suicidal Tendancies\r\nMonday, Monday - Mommas&Pappas\r\nMesmerization Eclipse - Captain Beyond\r\nTotal Eclipse of the Heart - Bonnie Tyler\r\nThe Torture Never Stops/Ms Piggy - Zappa\r\nReligion - Public Image Ltd\r\nMiserlou - The Astronauts\r\nTrue Fuschnick/La Schmoove - Fu-Schnickens\r\nDoc at the Radar Station - Captain Beefheart\r\n','2003-05-20 23:55:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2918,1,3502,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','All great suggestions. How about these three-\r\n William Shatner\'s attempt at music-who the hell remembers what the title was\r\n\r\nFrank Zappa-\"Bobby Brown\" & \"Rat Tomago\"\r\nboth from \"Sheik Yerbouti\"\r\n\r\nDidn\'t Leonard Nimoy do something similar to Shatner?\r\n\r\nPhil Winsor\r\n','2003-05-21 00:18:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2919,1,3501,'65.95.83.125','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Tatterdemalian,\r\n\r\nOnce upon a time, simply switching the relevant religion to \"Catholic\" would have made your entire post equally true.\r\n\r\n\"...any religious figure can reverse any reform, no matter how much it improves their quality of living, simply by announcing that it is displeasing to Allah.\"\r\n\r\nSo, what happened? Bluntly, Christianity as a political force got its teeth kicked in, repeatedly. Starting with the serious extremists, and then moving up the chain. If many of today\'s Christian clerics and their \"kinder, gentler\" approach sound like pre-emtive surrender is their standard M.O., well, there are good reasons for that.\r\n\r\nLeft to their own devices, no, I don\'t believe Arab Islam can reform itself from its supremacist leanings and hatred of both the Other and modernity. The kick from the inside isn\'t strong enough. What\'s new here is a strong outside push from outsiders in the region, driven not just by a sense of supremacy (which can be placated or diverted) but by a perception of a direct security threat. Outside kicks, reinforcing ferment inside, and openly attacking political Islam both intellectually and militarily... yes, that combination has a chance.\r\n\r\nEspecially now, when I see Islamism as vulnerable. Remember what\'s going on in Iran and other places... what seems like small sparks are falling in a pretty dry environment. I am heartened by every little thing, because conditions are changing in ways that could make those little things add up in interesting ways soon. Everyone has their tipping point.\r\n\r\nBeyond a certain point, therefore, I don\'t care if the reasons for publishing are cynical (though it\'s important to acknowledge that and keep it in mind, so we don\'t relax). If the Arab News and others are still so afraid of the USA that 18 months from now they\'re still running these kinds of articles regularly, I\'ll be happy. \r\n\r\nOne, it does help lay the groundwork intellectually for a broader movement that may well become anti-clerical as well as anti-fundamentalist (there are signs of this in Iran), and it emboldens those who do share those views. \r\n\r\nTwo, it\'s a thermometer that says to me the war is going well and people see America\'s preferences as \"the stronger horse.\"\r\n\r\nMomentum matters.','2003-05-21 00:37:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2920,1,3502,'152.163.253.3','Kabar','kabar77@aol.com','','\"Party All the Time\" by Eddie Murphy ought to work.','2003-05-21 00:41:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2921,1,3500,'67.39.255.38','Aakash','uisconservative@yahoo.com','http://uis.blogspot.com','\"In contrast, Daily Kos gives the liberal view...\"\r\n\r\nSomeone should give the traditional conservative, and pro-liberty, views.\r\n\r\nThere needs to a greater representation of both types of conservative viewpoints, with respect to issues such as war and the state, in the Blogosphere.\r\n\r\n\r\n(My previous blog entries have been covering the war from a traditional conservative perspective. [Scroll down from the index page to the posts for March, February, January, and the archives.])\r\n\r\n\r\nI just came across this blog for the first time today. It looks very good, and contains many good links and commentary. Keep up the good work!','2003-05-21 01:18:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2922,1,3501,'67.31.12.52','Diana','prairie_moon@earthlink.net','','Ah, Joe, *now* you are talking!!\r\n\r\nJust don\'t expect me to believe that there has been any sincere change of heart due to a couple of well-placed editorials in the Arab Noose.\r\n\r\nFor now, I\'ll keep my powder dry and my suspicions at the ready, because I am sure that the only reason they put those editorials there (in English) was PR.\r\n\r\nThat said, I read something in the NY Times which was truly heartening.\r\n\r\nIt was in the first article about the recent terror attack on the \"foreign compound\" (which their spokesman Adel Jubair calls a \"gated community\"--he\'s *so* clever!); that 70% of the residents are Saudis who take the opp\'ty to live in these \"gated communities\" in order to get away from the restrictions of living in Saudi Arabia.\r\n\r\nIn these compounds Saudi couples can walk around together, Saudi women don\'t have to wear the abaya, Saudi men can wear shorts. The number of these compounds is growing. The number of Saudis living in them is growing. \r\n\r\nIn other words, Saudi Arabia is rotting away from within.\r\n\r\nNow, I call *that* grounds for optimism.','2003-05-21 01:21:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2923,1,3502,'216.99.192.234','jeanne a e devoto','jaed@jaedworks.com','http://bittersanity.blogspot.com','These young people today don\'t know what true pain is. I\'m astonished that no one has yet suggested \"Macarthur Park\". (\"Someone left the caaaaaaake out in the raaaaaain... I don\'t thiiiiink that I can taaaaaake it, \'cause it took so long to baaaaake it, and I\'ll never have the recipeeeeee again... Oh nooooooooooo!\")\r\n\r\nAnd do not go dissing my man Messian. Some early 20th-century twelve-tone, on the other hand.... hmmm.','2003-05-21 01:28:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2924,1,3502,'131.191.39.190','devils chewtoy','b_bakerm@yahuu.com','','anything by stevie nix','2003-05-21 01:46:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2925,1,3501,'65.95.83.125','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Oooh, good catch Diana.','2003-05-21 04:02:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2926,1,3503,'66.122.50.49','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','That things have not reached panic levels just yet can only be reassuring to Republicans and discouraging to those who favor a vigorous two party system. The donks are starting to look as pathetic as the Tories in the UK. Odd how we have become out of phase with them, but Blair has done the DLC thing much better than Clinton or Gore.','2003-05-21 04:55:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2927,1,3501,'81.67.220.231','Caton','bdm94120@yahoo.fr','','The key test is whether similar articles are still running 6, 12, 18 months from now
\r\n\r\nNo. The key test is, will the Saudi stop funding terrorism, both directly and indirectly? This includes funding to organizations like CAIR, and funding from Muslim \"charities\". \r\n\r\nTalk is cheap. The test is actions.','2003-05-21 05:04:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2928,1,3503,'172.153.82.37','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','They need some sort of vision. Optimism really is the key word. The Dems used to be the party of optimism about Americans and about the future. They need to offer real ideas and a vision that sells America. That we can be better than we are. \r\n\r\nFrom Peggy Noonan\'s article\"\r\nYour party won\'t even agree to ban third-term abortions--which is the abortion of a baby who looks and seems fully human and capable of life because he is. \r\nAren\'t third term abortions illegal unless the life of the mother is in question?\r\n\r\nBut Republicans by and large don\'t suffer from blind loyalty or blind antagonism.\r\nYeah, right. Not in my experience. Both sides have this in spades.\r\n{...}\r\nThey will kill his presidency if they conclude he is essentially destructive (it was his Republican base in Congress that ended Richard Nixon\'s career).\r\nAnd here I thought Nixon did himself in with some help from Woodward and Bernstein.\r\n\r\nRecently it was Republicans who did in their own Senate majority leader because they would not accept a certain kind of nonsense.\r\nOr really because he was too much of a political liability. \r\n\r\nIf George W. Bush begins to seriously compromise conservative political philosophy, or to behave in a manner grossly offensive in a leader, they will turn on him too.\r\nThey won\'t have to be forced with that choice. Rove isn\'t stupid.\r\n\r\nI agree with her on pretty much everything else.','2003-05-21 05:43:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2929,1,3503,'65.95.83.125','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','[1] Impeachment doesn\'t happen by magic, lindenen, it\'s an act of the Congressional branch. Nixon resigned because it was clear that if he didn\'t, he\'d be impeached. It was also clear that many votes for that impeachment (remember, this followed the Democrats\' 1972 debacle) would have come from Republicans. Would have to, in fact, given the votes required. Republican representatives were fully behind the hearings and playing prominent roles. So Noonan isn\'t wrong about that.\r\n\r\n[2] There are laws under consideration related to 3rd trimester abortions, so that\'s a live issue in the USA.\r\n\r\n[3] As for Trent Lott, if you read many of the conservative columnists at the time it was clear that this went beyond issues of political liability. They were genuinely ticked off.\r\n\r\nBeyond that, yes there are blind partisans on both sides (Totten did a good piece on that recently) and agree, Dubya isn\'t likely to really burn his base as long as Rove is around.','2003-05-21 06:24:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2930,1,3508,'65.95.83.125','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Breakfast of Champions.','2003-05-21 06:27:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2931,1,3503,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Saw this in the doctor\'s office (where I\'ve been spending too much time lately, hence limited blogging) and started a response.\r\n\r\nBasic rule: things are never as awful or wonderful as people claim they are. The Democratic Party, and progressive politics are definitely on the outs right now, but so was conservative laissez-faire capitalism fifteen years ago.\r\n\r\nI\'m happy to watch GOP triumphalism, because that\'s the feedstock for future Democratic success (as Democratic triumphalism was for the current GOP success). That\'s kinda how the Founders meant it to be.\r\n\r\nMore later.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-21 06:33:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2932,1,3508,'172.171.14.165','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','Enemy Combatants! Everywhere!','2003-05-21 06:36:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2933,1,3502,'67.115.131.42','BayAreaGorevotinghawk','wswindrem@yahoo.com','','Hey, if we\'re going to be condemned as hopelessly sinful infedels, let\'s at least have some fun with it. Just like that TV station we broadcast from a plane over Iraq, let\'s broadcast a special station into Saudi Arabia. Let\'s broadcast Jerry Springer, some raunchy women mud wrestling shows, World Wide Wrestling, let\'s see, what other kitschy stuff could we send in? Maybe we could get some high profile Hollywood actor to do a dramatic reading (in Arabic, of course) of the Naked Lunch. How about the Playboy Channel?\r\nAs I understand it, according to that article in Atlantic Monthly that talks about the inevitable fall of the House of Saud, alcohol, drugs, prostitution, and porno movies are (in the protected envoronment of the homes of wealthy Saudis) a hot item. I\'m sure a lot of THOSE Saudis would eat up that station, but, of course, they wouldn\'t cop to it.\r\nLooks like the Saudi Supreme Court, in a 9 to 0 unanimous decision, has come out four square in favor of privacy rights. And it\'s our duty as sinful, lowlife infidels to cater to the secret, unacknowledged inner cravings of these virtuous Muslims. Hey, where would the world be without infidels? Just like Chinese, Mexican, and Philipino immigrants who have to do the dirty work that nobody else wants to do in restaurants, sweatshops, and California farms, so also its up to us sleazy, sinful, lowlife infidels to do the cultural dirty work that upstanding, virtuous Saudis don\'t want to do (but do want to watch). Is there an Arabic word for Shabbatz goy? This is a job for THE CULTURAL OUTSIDERS-ooohoohoohoo!!!(and we all know who the CULTURAL OUTSIDERS are, don\'t we)\r\n I mean, really, have you ever seen any really first rate Saudi porno flicks? Marilyn Chambers quality? No, of course not. The Saudi porno industry is definitely turning out inferior schlock. So, in the spirit of globalization, where every country specializes in what it can produce most cheaply and efficiently, its up to us to produce porno flicks and Barbie dolls, and Darwinian as it may be, if we run the local Saudi porno industry and Barbie doll industry out of business, its their fault for being either less efficient producers, or turning out an inferior product, or not protecting the local porno industry with high tariffs and import quotas. They have to learn about capitalism, real capitalism, maybe in the school of hard knocks.\r\n','2003-05-21 08:52:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2939,1,3508,'208.20.220.69','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','Mmmm, Seawolf! Chock full of crunchy goodness, and good for gum health too!\r\n\r\nAll we need to go along with this story is an endorsement from the Arctic Circle Veterinary Dental Association. Come to think of it, it\'s a pity the sub wasn\'t a Trident.\r\n','2003-05-21 14:36:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2936,1,3502,'67.115.131.42','BayAreaGorevotinghawk','wswindrem@yahoo.com','','Hey, I like Linda Ronstadt, but \"You\'re no Good\" got Manuel Noriega out of his refuge. Go with the proven winner!','2003-05-21 08:59:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2937,1,3508,'217.110.91.19','wf','bromhead79@yahoo.de','','The next (and last) sub of this class will be named the \'Jimmy Carter\' - did they run out of great states and presidents?','2003-05-21 09:41:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2938,1,3485,'194.224.177.226','Javier','javier_gil_ruiz@yahoo.es','','Warning: this will be a long comment.\r\n\r\nI am in the field of those that see the benefits of the higher efficiency of an as real as possible market competition.\r\n\r\nThe issue IMO is not \"socialism vs capitalism\" but simply that people want things done. Which is the best way to do each? Most often than not each way has great flaws.\r\n\r\nTake for example the matter that makes you american economical liberals (I am a european) fume most: The welfare state. \r\n\r\nAs an aside, I personally find it intriguing that you people show so much visceral, relentless bile and hatred for it, given that you don\'t have to endure it much and you are in your way to endure it even less. If I were in your shoes I would deal with it as with other inefficient lifestyles I don\'t have much in common with as with the amish. The amish are inefficient wussies, and I love them for that. Why so much rage against the inefficient wussies in this side of the atlantic? \r\n\r\nBut I digress. To take an example of the welfare state: Having something to live of when we are old is something we all want. It can be achieved in four ways: Have children to care of you, have a state pension, have a company pension or have a private pension with a bank (or any other kind of long term investment).\r\n\r\nAll ways involve putting your money (or the money of us all) somewhere, and all have severe flaws. The Economist had recently a good article on that that covers most aspects of the choices. \r\n\r\nPrivate initiatives will be more efficient (not safe, though) and definitely more respectful for the individual. But what if a sizeable percentage of all the people were irresponsible or stupid? Classic economy tells us we are all perfect utility calculators, but I do know quite a few people who deserve to be called stupid.\r\n\r\nWhat if, for example, a great part of the population were to choose not to be responsible (care for your old age, pay for a private medical insurance) in a perfect capitalist state? We would end up with 20% of the elderly population living as street homeless (many more, if pension funds go as they have been going lately). And people dying darwinistically of curable illnesses would become common.\r\n\r\nIn short, a wholly capitalistic society would be very unstable at least if it weren\'t introduced gradually and together with an education effort. \r\n\r\nThen again you have another quirk: Perhaps a part of the population would not be able to access the most expensive medical pensions (which enable you to afford the really expensive treatments) or the more reliable pension funds even by being very hard working and very responsible. \r\n\r\nOf course in the perfect capitalist world where beggars live like kings this will not happen (and I don\'t doubt living standards will rise tremendously, mind you). But there may well be rather long transitional \"phases\" when this is the case. This is the conundrum that made bismarck (a guy more protestant and more conservative you will ever be btw ;-)) invent the welfare state in the first place.\r\n\r\nThen there are other fields of \"things we want done\" that can be adressed by the state in some ways and by the public sector in other ways.\r\n\r\nA perfect capitalistic world would not have state armies, as they are a huge source of inefficiencies (the nonchalant way american conservatives see the \"pentagon pork\" is puzzling). Privately run armies would be (literally!) much more bang for the buck, which is what all is about. So there would have to be several non-monopolistic \"condottieri\" companies that would compete for the assignment of defence contracts from the state (or the public sector!) much in the same way weapons manufactuers vie for contracts today. Anything else would be socialism waiting to be shedded. And socialism is a bad thing.\r\n\r\nSome muddled people say one should leave the state enough money to fund worthy causes that are surely not going to be adressed by the private sector. Or at least leave the state room to incentivate or disincentivate investments. Cure for aids and environmental protection come to mind. But this is not true, as any need people perceive will be a demand, and where there is a demand, there\'s a supply. Any fumbling with the market is anathema. Anything else would be socialism waiting to be shedded. And socialism is a bad thing.\r\n\r\nWhich brings us to another point. What to do with the cancer of the market, which is monopoly and oligopoly. These are clearly inefficiencies and should be fought. But not by the inefficient public sector!! No, we should have monopoly-preventing companies which compete fairly in the task of punishing other companies for unfair competition. Oh, in a private sector legal system, too. And on and on.\r\n\r\nOk, I have seen the opportunity to be tongue in cheek and I couldn\'t resist myself. But my case really is:\r\n\r\nYou can\'t stop statism (that which you erroneously call socialism, but existed long before socialism and will live longer than socialism too) completely. At some point you *will* have to stop and draw the line. \"No, we can\'t leave *this* to the public sector, even if it is much more efficient\".\r\n\r\nAnd, funnily, many people want that line drawn at the issues they care most about. Neocons too.\r\n\r\nBy the way, I hope for our own good welfare state reforms succeed around here. But there are more reasons for the european bad economic record: Even with the Schengen treaty we have no job mobility because of the language barriers and above all the price of housing (you marry your mortgage for life here). Which is one of the reasons for low natality too...\r\n','2003-05-21 11:24:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2940,1,3501,'12.23.2.98','Diana','prairie_moon@earthlink.net','','Thanks, Joe. I don\'t think that enough has been made of this, and indeed the focus of the article wasn\'t on it. But it\'s there.\r\n\r\nHere\'s the URL:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/16/international/middleeast/16RIYA.html\r\n\r\nScroll down to where it begins:\r\n\r\n\"It was only in recent years that Saudis started living in compounds, long a preserve of Westerners...\"\r\n\r\nTake it from a professional pessimist, this is GOOD NEWS.','2003-05-21 15:02:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2941,1,3505,'207.168.131.193','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','I had a less scientific idea when I wrote this poem titled Conspiracy, about building a better man','2003-05-21 19:54:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2942,1,3503,'216.250.33.101','Ralph','rtacoma@allwest.net','',' It seems to me that the Democrats do really need to decide what they BELIEVE in. Too often the discussions deal with \"how to present themselves\" so that they can be elected. Many times the efforts appear to be concentrating on how to avoid calling attention to things that people won\'t like, etc; so that they\'ll be able to get elected in spite of that.\r\n This apparent attempt to \"spin\" everything is, I think, causing many people --- and not just conservatives, but many Democrats who\'ve been with the party for 30 years or more --- to feel that the current leadership is much more interested in POWER for itself than in achieving particular goals for the country. I\'ve been conservative/libertarian for years; BUT I used to be able to respect Democrats like Hubert Humphrey who stood up for their beliefs and didn\'t try to \"repackage\" them to fit the current poll.\r\n When I debate with my Decomcratic friends now, even they get embarrassed when I ask, \"so what are you suggesting as an alternative?\" They have the problem because their party has spent its time saying that \"Bush is wrong on a tax cut,\" for example; but hasn\'t offered any serious alternative to it. \r\n Rather than trying to compromise and work out something more to their liking, they appear determined to spend all of their efforts blcoking everything Bush wants to do. I think that\'s bad for the country, both because negativism doesn\'t SOLVE problems, and because we\'d all benefit from a serious debate.','2003-05-21 20:15:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2943,1,3503,'199.168.32.10','Robin Roberts','finalprotfire@attbi.com','','A.L. says \"I\'m happy to watch GOP triumphalism, because that\'s the feedstock for future Democratic success (as Democratic triumphalism was for the current GOP success). That\'s kinda how the Founders meant it to be.\"
While its certainly how our nation\'s political system has worked for the last century or more, the \"Founders\" didn\'t intend it and it worked a bit differently for the first two or three generations. Depending on how you define \"Founders\", many of our early leaders were strongly against the notion of \"party\". ( And yet, many others of our early leaders were busy building their Party especially Federalists like Hamilton ). For the first couple of generations, the parties themselves evolved, adapted, sometimes died out and were born anew from ashes more than we\'ve seen post Civil War.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-21 20:24:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2944,1,3508,'171.161.160.10','Jeff Medcalf','medcalf@caerdroia.org','http://www.caerdroia.org/blog','I once read an article about a man who lived amongst polar bears. He noted how dominant polar bears are in their food chain. One quote in particular stuck with me:\r\n\r\n\"In the polar bear\'s world, there are only polar bears and food. You\'d better convince them that you\'re a polar bear.\"\r\n','2003-05-21 21:07:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2945,1,3503,'138.133.17.8','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Ralph:\r\n\r\n\"It seems to me that the Democrats do really need to decide what they BELIEVE in. Too often the discussions deal with \"how to present themselves\" so that they can be elected.\" \r\n\r\nAbso-damn-lutely.\r\n\r\nEveryone is talking about the Dems \"coming up with policies that give them traction with voters\"...how about coming up with policies that make sense?? The voters are pretty smart; if you give them something that they believe will work, you\'ll get traction.\r\n\r\nSheesh.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-21 21:08:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2946,1,3509,'24.100.247.27','marek','mmm@rogers.com','','...\"we are the progressive party\"...\r\nYou\'ve lost me here - you mean as opposed to Republicans? This needs more than a little justification. ','2003-05-21 23:34:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2947,1,3505,'12.47.68.108','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Sorry about the bad link. I don\'t know how to take Blogger these days. Sometimes it works fine and then there are times like this.','2003-05-22 00:06:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2948,1,3509,'66.122.50.49','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','I\'m not (a Democrat). I doubt I would be a part of any party that thinks the government should elevate any one above anyone else. As long as the Democrats look for equality of results, they will have a problem.','2003-05-22 01:13:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2949,1,3511,'66.62.43.230','bkw','ben@fuzzygeek.com','','Craft a coherent message that the Democratic Party and individual candidates can sell to the American public. \r\n\r\nThis talking point is interesting for a number of reasons.\r\n\r\n1. That they need to point this out. It seem as if a good part of the DP seems to be more interesting in bashing Bush than advancing their own agenda, and\r\n\r\n2. That they must \"craft\" a message to be \"sold.\" What about crafting a message that clearly and coherently conveys our Party\'s agenda? Hmm. Where\'s the focus here?\r\n\r\nSounds like politics for politics\' sake, to me. Although to be fair, I haven\'t read the presentation.','2003-05-22 01:35:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2950,1,3509,'68.164.54.158','Roger L. Simon','globalpix@mindspring.com','http://www.rogerlsimon.com','This was a big question... and a good one... and I had to answer it on my own blog.\r\n\r\nwww.rogerlsimon.com','2003-05-22 01:42:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2951,1,3511,'66.122.50.49','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','Drezner picked up on Bergreen and DONNA BRAZILE in the WSJ today. Who is their target audience? There have to be cheaper ways to reach the ATLA. His question, is it real or is it triangulation?\r\n\r\nhttp://drezner.blogspot.com/2003_05_18_drezner_archive.html#94691281','2003-05-22 01:48:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2952,1,3502,'198.26.130.36','Mary in LA','iam@inLA.com','','Oh, come on! Isn\'t it obvious?\r\n\"It\'s a small world, after all,\r\nIt\'s a small world, after all,\r\nIt\'s a small world, after all...\"\r\n\r\nThey\'ll be begging for mercy in mere hours.\r\n\r\n;-)','2003-05-22 02:04:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2953,1,3509,'152.163.253.3','tallan','tomnace@aol.com','','It is time for Democrats to decide what they are for and campaign on that basis. Focusing on bashing the opponents, especially popular presidents like Clinton and Bush, is losing politics.\r\n\r\nHowever, the biggest share of the votes are in the broad middleclass, not the bottom 20%. Catering to the bottom 20% is as losing a strategy as catering to the upper 5%. ','2003-05-22 02:26:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2954,1,3511,'68.168.50.163','Fred','justanoldman@excite.com','','My first impression is that anyone who considers Bill Clinton a bold leader who confronted threats is either deluded or simply playing politics. After viewing the power point presentation, I must conclude its another \"spin\" to make the democrats appear strong and supportive of an issue that they gutted and ignored for decades. Bottom line is that a majority the amreican people believe the democrats are weak on national security and defense because they have been since the late sixties. \r\n\r\n','2003-05-22 03:16:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2955,1,3512,'158.252.214.228','Peter','adlerpe@hotmail.com','','Good on Ms. Aguilera for being loyal to her consultant/staff nerd, instead of tossing him/her over for some dorky-loking middle-aged guy at a convention who offers to do it for free. Apparently, good work counts for something.','2003-05-22 09:33:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2956,1,3511,'208.20.220.69','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','During the Kennedy Administration and before, it was possible for the Democratic Party to be defense-positive, because the party had not yet become so beholden to special interest groups. Today, that posture is unavailable to it.\r\n\r\nSpecial interests see every pot of money available to the federal government as a target for their own excision. They tend to succeed at getting their hands into the till in proportion to 1) their size, and 2) their ability to stake some sort of claim to moral high ground. Thus, the defense \"special interest\" will always have less lobbying power than any of the others that possess significant popular allegiance and command, racial, ethnic, feminist, environmental, or other pseudo-moral foundations.\r\n\r\nMy estimate is that about 70% of the Democratic vote in any general election is provided by special interests -- one-issue voters. The Democrats will always weigh that figure against the few hundred thousand votes they might gain from arguing for increased defense spending, and slough defense. Nor is this likely to change; the special-interest dynamic has never yet been deposed by a more powerful force, once it\'s claimed the heart of a political party.\r\n','2003-05-22 12:12:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2957,1,3511,'172.162.248.121','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','IIRC Gore actually argued for a larger defense budget than Bush in the 2000 election.','2003-05-22 17:27:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2958,1,3502,'66.170.163.76','Warren Eckels','weckels@jorsm.com','','\r\nWOT? No mention of Hampster Dance?\r\n','2003-05-22 18:10:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2959,1,3485,'209.83.111.69','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Why aren\'t Americans distressed with the inefficient Amish way of life?\r\n\r\nThe Amish don\'t put a gun to people\'s heads (in the form of government) to support their way of life.\r\n\r\nIt is not ineficiency that Americans object to. It is theft.','2003-05-22 18:34:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2960,1,3511,'68.41.191.158','Haggai','helitzur@umich.edu','http://elitzur.blogspot.com','Yeah, Francis P., the Democrats are the only party with \"special interest, one-issue voters.\" No such thing would ever cross the mind of any Republican politician. Whatever.\r\n\r\nThe Dem. leaders in Congress missed a decent chance last summer to get together on Iraq and exert some credible influence on the debate. Almost all of them (Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt, Lieberman, Daschle, Biden, a few others) basically agreed that taking on Saddam was worth it, but that the approach had to emphasize the UN resolutions and their enforcement. None of Bush\'s \"pre-emption\" arguments stood up on their own. When asked why Iraq and not Iran, N. Korea, Syria, etc., the \"pre-emption\" crowd had to invoke Saddam\'s history of aggression against his neighbors and his banned WMD programs--precisely the things that were in the UN resolutions. The Dem. leaders should have agreed to put their differences aside (not easy when they\'re all gearing up for their primary campaigns) and speak with one voice on that message: yes, let\'s deal with Iraq, but we won\'t support a war resolution in Congress unless Bush goes through the UN. \r\nThe party was going to be divided between pro-war and anti-war no matter what, but the leadership could have taken some credit for the UN route that Bush ultimately chose if they had done that. Several of them--Lieberman, Edwards, Gephardt, and Biden--were pretty consistent throughout the Iraq debate in emphasizing most of those points, but the lack of a recognizably collective effort hurt the party. It\'s even more important to have an unmistakably consistent message from the top of the party when you don\'t have the White House to lead the agenda.','2003-05-22 18:52:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2961,1,3509,'68.41.191.158','Haggai','helitzur@umich.edu','http://elitzur.blogspot.com','AL\'s number (1) suggestion is, for me, the most important thing for Democrats to pursue and promote. In terms of economics, it\'s about getting the best deal for average working-class people no matter what the circumstances are. If that means some tax cuts, ok, and if not, that\'s ok too. The GOP seems to have gotten a lot more ideological in the past 10 years or so, what with the \"tax cuts forever\" mantra that they\'ve all adopted. It\'s not like tax cuts are ever going to be seriously unpopular, but can they really convince a majority of the people that this is the solution to all economic problems, forever?\r\n\r\nThe (1) suggestion makes sense for foreign policy, too. War with Iraq, yes, but for the purposes of enforcing international norms about punishing agression and WMD proliferation, not because of vague scare-mongering about \"pre-emption\" that alienates our reliable allies (like Britain) just about as much as it alienates our uh, less reliable ones, like France and Germany. ','2003-05-22 19:04:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2962,1,3485,'66.170.163.76','Warren Eckels','weckels@jorsm.com','','\r\n Another cause of Germany\'s financial malaise during the 1990s might be its decision to redeem East German marks at par, in effect printing reams of Deutschmarks. Germany also had a very bad experience with hyperinflation during the Weimar Republic, so the Bundesbank raised interest rates to stave off the inflationary effect caused by printing money. \r\n\r\n It did not help matters that continental investors could get double-digit returns by investing in dollar-denominated US Treasury bonds while the euro made its way from US$1.15 to US$0.85. (At that time, the euro was in stealth mode, with other currencies pegged to it but still in European pockets.) Thus investment flowed west across the Atlantic, as did jobs. \r\n\r\n Yamaneko \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n','2003-05-22 19:41:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2963,1,3513,'209.83.111.69','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Heroin is not paying for NK nukes. Drug prohibition is paying for NK nukes.\r\n\r\nWhat you have to ask yourself is if it is an acceptable price. Supporting criminals and terrorists and all.','2003-05-22 20:03:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2964,1,3512,'209.103.239.3','Fred Boness','fboness@excel.net','','So, for all these years those bugs in Microsoft products were just a ploy by this nerdy guy to meet girls?','2003-05-23 03:20:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2965,1,3515,'68.40.150.252','Dean Esmay','dean@deanesmay.com','http://www.deanesmay.com','Here\'s the thing though:\r\n\r\nWhile these projections of increased oil demand are likely to be correct, it\'s also unsurprising. Projections about future demand for oil always show significant growth in the future, and are usually correct. A similar survey done in 1970 would have predicted that we would be using a lot more oil by 2000, and it would have been correct.\r\n\r\nYet despite this steady growth in demand for oil, the price of oil has gone down every decade for the entire last century. On aggregate average, it is lower today than it was in 1993, and 1993 was lower than 1983, and 1983 was lower than 1973, and so on back as far back as you care to go.\r\n\r\nBecause proven oil reserves continue to expand significantly faster than demand.\r\n\r\nThe OPEC nations make far less money now than they used to on oil, and there is much reason to believe that, even with this growth, the trend toward oil becoming cheaper and less profitable will very possibly continue.','2003-05-23 07:42:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2966,1,3502,'203.39.119.127','Alan E Brain','aebrain@webone.com.au','','Leonard Nimoy singing \"Bilbo Baggins, Greatest Little Hobbit of them all\". The Video is worse.\r\n\r\nMax Bygraves records.\r\n\r\n\"Tiptoe through the tulips\" by Tiny Tim. Looped. Played backwards.\r\n\r\n\"It was an itsy-bitsy teeny-weeny yellow polka-dot bikini\" from a scratched record with the hole off-centre. (This was used as a torture technique by the Stasi in a movie IIRC)\r\n\r\n\"I like Traffic Lights\" from Monty Python, looped.','2003-05-23 07:45:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2967,1,3496,'172.157.93.69','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','This article on heroin from Reason.com was incredibly interesting.','2003-05-23 08:03:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2968,1,3515,'206.190.18.244','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','No mention of hybrid vehicles which will in time be predominant in the auto market. No mention of switching the auto auxilaries to electric power which means an end to power robbing belt drive. Even cam shafts for the valve train are expected to be electronic in the near future. Which means cam profiles can be optimised for every engine speed and power. Even if autos don\'t go full hybrid they will not idle when stopped for much longer. \r\n\r\nNo serious mention of wind power where a size increase from the current 1.5 MW turbines to 3 MW jobs will make wind electricity cost competitive with coal without the current subsidy. Wind is a compliment to gas. You get the most wind in the winter when gas is most needed for heating. Gas fired turbine plants can be throttled up and down easily to compliment wind availability. Texas (which sells a lot of gas) is going great guns in installing wind turbines. It means they can export more gas which is easier to transport than electricity.\r\n\r\nFor reasons other than Dean cites (and I think he is correct) I believe the report is bogus.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-23 12:27:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2969,1,3485,'206.190.18.244','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Warren,\r\n\r\n The EUros are now complaining because the dollar is too low. So which is it?\r\n\r\n=================================================\r\n\r\nOn the subject of the Gramascians. \r\n\r\nThe Marxist brand claimed to be universal. In the Gramascian brand you have first off whites separated from blacks. Of course as time goes on in these groups once the separations start there will be sub-catagories. Depending on the amount of victimhood. \r\n\r\nRather than being a uniting force the Gramascian branch of communism has built in a very large contradiction. Who is the greatest victim? Who decides? \r\n\r\nI\'m not sure the market for flagellation in America is as large as the Gramascians hope.','2003-05-23 15:19:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2970,1,3511,'207.73.72.249','Dean Esmay','dean@deanesmay.com','http://www.deanesmay.com','Actually, it is quite fair to suggest that Democrats are more special-interest oriented. Indeed, when Republicans talk about special interests, it\'s Democrats they\'re needling.\r\n\r\nThe fact is that the Democratic Party has, historically, always concentrated on building together groups of special interests. It\'s their raison detre as a party. How else can you explain the odd assortment of trade unionists, lawyers, gay rights activists, feminists, and minority groups under one single tent? \r\n\r\nDemocrats work this way. You can make a strong argument that it makes them a highly \"democratic\" party because concentrating on cobbling together a group of special interests and building a coalition that way means a huge diversity of views is represented.\r\n\r\nRepublicans, most especially over the last 25 years or so, have concentrated on a narrower and more specific agenda. They, too, have a coalition of interests, but the issues represented are more broad and diffuse. In one sense, you could say that theirs is less democratic and more ideal-driven. The question being whether you respect their chosen ideals or not--not everyone does.\r\n\r\n --\r\n\r\nBy the way, A.L. -- I don\'t suppose it would matter if I pointed out that the Bush tax cuts gave the people at the bottom, the single mothers especially, a huge benefit in a massively expanded earned income credit for children? That, indeed, the people on that end of the income scale are the ones to receive the biggest benefit from those tax cuts by far--especially since \"the rich\" haven\'t had their tax cuts phased in yet?\r\n\r\nNo, I suppose it doesn\'t matter. This is part of why I walked out of the Democratic party. Anything to give any benefit at all to \"the rich\" is considered axiomatically bad and evil and destructive. It\'s that sort of irrationality that really upsets me about the party.\r\n\r\nBut it may be necessary. Self-described \"liberals\" (i.e. leftists) are about half the number of self-described \"conservatives.\" Thus, Democrats must concentrate on more than an idea-based agenda. They have to have enough to attract the political left that loves the idea of government helping people, then have to find enough other special interests to fill up the remaining gaps.\r\n\r\nIf my analysis is correct--and it\'s built on a look at the history, not a partisan attack--the Democrats\' real problem is that the political left is out of ideas that fire the imagination, so all they have left is carping and, well, a cobbled together group of special interests that are increasingly dysfunctional in today\'s world.\r\n\r\nBecause let me tell ya: your average UAW or AFL-CIO worker doesn\'t give two shits about gay rights, quite possibly owns a gun, and may very well think that abortion is murder. Blacks, despite their visceral loathing for Republicans, actually are the most socially conservative ethnic group in America--including white anglo saxon protestants. They love school choice, they tend to view gay rights with suspicion, they see churches as an integral part of politics, and they often are pro-life.\r\n\r\nThe fissures are showing so badly within the party because the ideological basis for its various positions are badly aging and need updating. THat\'s going to take ideas. It will also probably take having the party decide to write off some of the special interests that have helped it in decades past, and working on pealing away some of the current Republican constituency.\r\n\r\nHard work, but do-able if you ask me.','2003-05-23 17:49:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2972,1,3509,'12.111.129.60','oceanguy','oceanguy_fl@yahoo.com','http://oceanguy.blogspot.com','You\'ve described a little of why many of us are no longer Democrats. Independent seems like such a cop out, but the Dems stopped representing me long before I gave up on them.\r\n\r\nAs a veteran of inside the beltway life, I\'m offended at the blind faith the party has in government solutions. Having seen and dealt daily with the waste and ineptitude of most of the federal bureaucracy makes me cringe at the thought of any new government programs eating up tax dollars and producing none of the desired results.','2003-05-23 22:12:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2973,1,3509,'68.49.135.64','David Foster','photoncourier@yahoo.com','http://photoncourier.blogspot.com','It seems to me that Democrats (and liberals) are no longer \"progressive\" in any meaningful sense of the word. Rather, they are reactionaries. Consider:\r\n1) The reflexive negative attitude toward science and technology (viz, GM crops)\r\n2) The obsessive focus on race and gender as the primary components of human identity\r\n3) The concern for protecting existing institutions (viz the public schools), regardless of how disfunctional these institutions may have become.\r\n4) The high level of concern for their individual status, and the strong need to differentiate themselves from the \"common sort\" (the awful bourgeoisie).\r\n\r\nProgressives? Actually, they are Tories...','2003-05-24 02:21:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2974,1,3511,'68.8.206.79','TK','tkoltpacvs@hotmail.com','','Dean Esmay,\r\n\r\nRe your comments on tax cuts, please refer to www.accuracy.com for wht I recall is a fairly good breakdown of the tax cut plan. The lower income filers w/ children see immediate refunds, however over about seven years, the highest income brackets will have their overal taxes reduced by about 50%. This is a very cusory eval and these numbers may have changed SOME during passage, but the final tally is still unbalanced in favor of the wealthy.\r\n\r\nAnd how dare any conservative feel they can presume to lecture anyone about the evils of special interests.','2003-05-24 06:33:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2975,1,3485,'68.5.158.96','Carl LaFong','info@antiplan.com','http://antiplan.com','Larry Elder, No \"s\", please. Go Sage!','2003-05-24 07:42:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2976,1,3509,'205.188.209.7','Tom L Lewis','tomllewis@aol.com','','would you please email me an article I read: \"Why aren\'t liberals interested in the outside world?\"\r\n\r\nI think it was May 12, 2003.\r\n\r\nI want to show it to my daughter, as I thought it a fair and balanced article.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-24 14:59:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2977,1,3509,'68.41.191.158','Haggai','helitzur@umich.edu','http://elitzur.blogspot.com','Democrats have a \"reflexive negative attitude toward science and technology\"? WTF? When was the last time (if ever) that any prominent Democratic politician made any issue at all out of GM crops? And how was the hi-tech industry doing under the Clinton administration?','2003-05-24 16:28:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2978,1,3511,'68.41.191.158','Haggai','helitzur@umich.edu','http://elitzur.blogspot.com','Ok, Dean, a lot of black people and UAW workers lean conservative on some social issues. What\'s your point? Why isn\'t there a big exodus among them to the GOP? What reason is there to think that there will be such an exodus in the foreseeable future?\r\n\r\nIt\'s not about reflexive hatred of benefits to the rich, it\'s about different priorities of what government should do. You can\'t implement Clinton\'s type of budget policies and government programs, if indeed you favor those (as most Americans did when he was pursuing them), while simultaneously cutting taxes by a trillion dollars every single year. It\'s not irrational to have an argument about priorities. ','2003-05-24 16:41:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2979,1,3485,'66.157.115.119','Mark','mark@rationalexplications.com','http://www.rationalexpilications.com','I used to have this same hypothesis, and it may very well be correct in the long-run, but what is distressing is that the Democrats aren\'t even \"market socialists\" but \"class-warfare\" socialists. \r\n\r\nI would define a market socialist as one who understands that markets are the way to organize economic activity, but feel sorry for those born stupid or for whatever reason will be at the very bottom of the distribution. These market socialists see nothing wrong with markets, just want to help out those at the bottom.\r\n\r\nSweden used to be an example of a market socialism country. The government didn\'t try to micro-manage business with all types of assisine regulations, they simply taxed and redistributed. Sweden was still able to prosper. Now the government micro-manages everything and Sweden has tanked.\r\n\r\nThe Democrat Party is not controlled by market socialist. The Democratic Party is a bunch of hard-core \"class-warfare\" socialists. The rhetoric coming from the Democratic candidate during a presidential election is horrifying -- nothing but claiming that poor people are poor because they have been exploited by rich people -- the \"decade of greed\" crap. Stirring up this sort of resentment is the kind of crap you see in the Arab world.\r\n\r\nSocialism is a long way from dead...I\'ll be happy if we can finally get rid of the class-warfare wing of it.','2003-05-24 17:07:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2980,1,3509,'68.49.135.64','David Foster','photoncourier@yahoo.com','http://photoncourier.blogspot.com','Haggai...\"prominent\" Demo politicians are probably avoiding making an issue out of GM crops because of political considerations; however, among the ideological left, GM crops are certainly a big issue. These are the people who increasingly seem to set the direction of the Demo party, even if their more extreme ideas take a while to make it into the mainstream.\r\n\r\nI don\'t think the successes of the \"tech\" industry during the Clinton administration had to much to do with any Clinton policies. Rather, they had to do with (a) the fact that certain technologies (such as WWW) had reached the point where they could be commercialized, and (b) large numbers of entrepreneurs were willing to step up to the bar and do so.\r\n\r\nIt\'s true that Al Gore used to give speeches about a \"national information infrastructure,\" but as near as I can tell, what he had in mind was something much more centralized than the Internet turned out to be...more along the lines of the fantasies which cable and media companies were enjoying during the early \'90s..','2003-05-24 17:25:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2981,1,3518,'143.111.216.115','Aziz','azizhp@com.yahoo','http://unmedia.blogspot.com','great example: The Liberty Ship, which revolutionized shipbuilding because it necessitated assembly-line methods which had never been tried on that scale before.\r\n\r\nThe Liberty Ship was a second-rate vessel by design. It was that second-rate design that made it so ideal as a testbed for massively automated and modular construction. And without it we would have lost the war.','2003-05-24 17:56:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2982,1,3516,'67.3.82.143','Insufficiently Sensitive','hankbradley@uswest.net','','Only the last Sufi understood that the kid would act on his own motivations, not those of the stuffy grownups around him.','2003-05-24 19:42:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2983,1,3509,'68.41.191.158','Haggai','helitzur@umich.edu','http://elitzur.blogspot.com','I guess we\'re talking about somewhat different things with the ideological left and the Democratic party. What basis is there for your contention that the extreme left is setting the tone in the Dem. party? If anything, the party has shifted to the right on several major issues in the past decade. The far left certainly wasn\'t in favor of welfare reform, and they\'re definitely not in favor of the smaller tax cuts that the top Democrats have been proposing since Gore\'s 2000 campaign. \r\n\r\nA lot more Democrats in Congress supported this Iraq war as opposed to the first one, where the large majority of them voted no. That might not exactly be an indication of anti-war sentiment waning in the party, but it\'s certainly evidence against any gain in it. And even if the tech industry would have boomed even with different govt. policies during the \'90s, there\'s nothing whatsoever in the Dem. party\'s record over the past decade to indicate any gain in anti-science or technology sentiment. What basis is there for the belief that anti-GM crop policies will ever become an issue for Democratic leaders? \r\n\r\nIf you want to bash the anti-war, anti-trade Luddite left, you\'ll get little or no argument from me. But vague assertions about how those types \"increasingly seem to set the direction of the Demo party\" are devoid of evidence and divorced from reality. ','2003-05-24 19:50:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2984,1,3509,'166.61.238.10','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','I think the \"anti-war, anti-trade Luddite left\" has been the most prominent voice on the left, not because they dominate the Dems but because they go out on the street and block traffic. Or vomit on the street as protest. They are simply the loudest. They\'ve been losing the ideological battle in the Democratic Party for some time. Imo this is why the Green Party developed (well also because of their naivete about the political system). Their ideas don\'t sell in the US because they are so fringe and most people with common sense see the ridiculousness of so many of their arguments. I\'ve begun thinking of the American Far Left as being pretty much the European Left. ','2003-05-24 20:23:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2985,1,3329,'65.50.16.128','Denise LaFrance','scrufflesgone@yahoo.ca','','Need email address for al goldstein and bill amerson of Screw magazine.Can anyone help?','2003-05-24 21:02:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2986,1,3329,'65.50.16.128','denise laFrance','scrufflesgone@yahoo.ca','','Email address for al goldstein and Bill Amerson send info to scrufflesgone@yahoo.ca please.\r\nThank you.','2003-05-24 21:04:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2987,1,3516,'64.230.168.117','Anonymous Coward','anonymous@coward.com','','Whenever possible, you must speak to people in thier own language.\r\n\r\nAnd the converse, from Chaim Potok,\r\n\"You must listen when someone is trying to tell you something\"','2003-05-24 21:33:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2988,1,3516,'65.95.83.125','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Very true in both cases.\r\n\r\nAs noted in the blog post, I also see a link to religious ritual, a \"noisy\" activity that serves an easily understood function, and may be taken to a point where the neighbours are annoyed. The Sufis focus, instead, on the understanding INSIDE the practice. It\'s the real secret behind religious practices\' effectiveness, just as it\'s the \"empty, unseen\" space in the drum that creates the sound. By focusing the punchline on what\'s INSIDE the drum, the story is implicitly asking for religious ritual to be broken in order to get at what\'s inside. This will enlighten, and also prevent any further annoyance to the neighbours.\r\n\r\nIdries Shah then takes the story to a different level than that...\r\n\r\nIS: \"The subjective self, which is made up of part ordinary human training, part instinct, and part obsession or conditioning may answer well enough for many purposes, but it must be possible to set aside that self in order to get to the real thing. Sufi teaching often has to resort to indirect methods in order to eliminate the destructive effect of those activities that give great pleasure to the individual but actually inhibit his potential -- as well as annoy everyone else around.\r\n\r\nIncidentally, a lot of diversionary activity such as musical assemblies, dressing up, and incantations -- well but erroneously know in the West and among ignorant people in the East as \"spiritual\" or \"esoteric\" -- originates in attempts to satisfy the demand for \"real mysticism\" by unsuitable people (or by suitable people who are thinking wrongly). Sometimes the only shortcoming is that they lack the right information.\"\r\n\r\nThis kind of mutlilayered meaning is entirely typical of Sufi stories, and all lessons derived from it are useful lessons. There is no \"one valid\" interpretation - the story is setting up a paradox to create thinking and enlightenment in the listener, and succeeds by working on a number of levels.','2003-05-24 23:03:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2989,1,3509,'65.95.83.125','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Tom,\r\n\r\nThis was a Michael Totten article, and it spawned a lot of debate in the blogosphere. It was also carried in the Wall Street Journal. So, not sure which WoC.NET article you mean.\r\n\r\nPosts related to it/linking to it included (in reverse chronological order):\r\n\r\n* The Decent Thing\r\nhttp://windsofchange.net/archives/003458.html\r\n\r\n* Decency & Political Discourse\r\nhttp://windsofchange.net/archives/003452.html\r\n\r\n* The Battle Over Liberalism\r\nhttp://windsofchange.net/archives/003446.html\r\n\r\n* Liberal Builders, Conservative Defenders & Political Debate\r\nhttp://windsofchange.net/archives/003441.html','2003-05-24 23:11:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2990,1,3509,'136.216.75.6','Green Baron','greenbaron@hotmail.com','','I\'m not a Democrat. Actually, I\'m a recovering uber-right-winger who\'s mind was opnened in College.\r\n\r\nBoth Democrats and Republicans have their ideologues and extremists. Both have members that go against the standard mantra, like Lincoln Chafee and Zell Miller. \r\n\r\nBoth parties also change over time. In 1860, up until the 1920s, the Republicans were the liberal party and the Democrats were the conservative party. Of ocurse that wasn\'t true in every case. \r\n\r\nMy grandfather was born in 1907 in Brooklyn, and like any good Irish Catholic, he grew up as a Democrat. In 1959, he became Chief of Internal Security for the Attorney General, and in a pragmatic move, became an Independent, which allowed him to keep his job through both administrations. Towards the end of his life, he reamined an Independent, but leaned more and more to the Republican side.\r\n\r\nPeople change and parties change. In fact, the very definitions of liberal and conservative are not what they were 300 years ago.\r\n\r\nI myself used to be overly partisan, and I still maintain certain sentiments of favoritism; Gene Taylor and David Vitter both went to my HS so I will support them regardless. Of course, I agree with Taylor and Vitter, so that is easy, but that preferences more speaks of Catholic high schools in New Orleans than partisan politics.\r\n\r\nI was quick to regsiter as a Republican when I turned 18, and it can be family tradition to choose a party. My father and his father were both Republicans. In fact, my grandfather was a Republican in the South back in the 40s, long before the GOP had a shot anywhere in the South, except for East Tennessee.\r\n\r\nI have gotten upset with my party time and again, and I tend to be more Libertarian than Conservative these days. I also have people on both sides of the spectrum I like. Mac the War Liberal and Michael Totten are two of my favorite blogs. I also enjoy Andrew Sullivan\'s daily dish, and the writings of Christopher Hitchens. \r\n\r\n','2003-05-25 11:45:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2991,1,3516,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','My reaction was that some adult should simply have taken his drum away. A good spanking would have helped too. But if no one is willing to discipline or control the child then it makes sense to trick the child into doing something that removes the source of irritation.\r\n\r\nI\'m skeptical of the idea that studying Sufism or other mystical schools of thought will make one wiser.','2003-05-25 21:16:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2992,1,3496,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','If recreational drugs are legalized then they will be cheaper. That will decrease the need to commit crime to get drug money. It will also eliminate the jailing of drug users and dealers.\r\n\r\nBut will it also so increase drug use that the externalities that recreational drug use causes swamp all the other social cost savings? Will there be more car accidents, fewer people able to hold jobs and fulfill their responsibilities toward family and so on?\r\n\r\n','2003-05-25 21:20:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2993,1,3522,'68.40.150.235','Dean Esmay','dean@deanesmay.com','http://www.deanesmay.com','Cow Tse Tung...!','2003-05-25 21:52:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2994,1,3520,'207.170.32.27','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Good theories have a good feel. \r\n\r\nI think the attempt to separate feelings from rationality is a mistake.\r\n\r\nWhat is needed is to train people to be moderately comfortable with confusion. Every new topic or old topic looked at in a new way brings confusion. If you can\'t stand the confusion until order is restored then you learn nothing new.\r\n\r\nConfusion is a sign of learning. Of course it can also be a sign of incompetence.\r\n\r\nBe careful out there.','2003-05-26 01:38:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2995,1,3516,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Since the child is actually a metaphorical stand-in for adults like you and me, \"taking the drum away and giving him a spanking\" probably isn\'t a good meme to encourage. All kinds of complications there, and of course there\'s no enlightenment value either.\r\n\r\nAs for whether studying mystical schools of thought makes one wiser, the answer is surprisingly prosaic: it will if you want it to, won\'t if you don\'t.','2003-05-26 04:51:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2996,1,3525,'12.224.128.148','Cowboy Kahlil','Kahlil@despammed.com','http://reachm.blog-city.com/','I had a few thoughts on Memorial Day, too, reminding folks to honor the living vets, too.','2003-05-26 05:50:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2997,1,3512,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Yes, he is. He\'s still letting down the side for geek Gates-wannabes everywhere. Nerd billionaires are supposed to gain cachet, not relive their high school embarassments. \r\n\r\nYou don\'t have to cheat, Bill, just get treated with respect (and perhaps a bit of desire) by hot chicks instead of crashing like a 6-month old installation of Windows 98. Surely that\'s not too much to ask?','2003-05-26 06:38:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2998,1,3525,'24.165.32.68','Venomous Kate','kate@electricvenom.com','http://www.electricvenom.com','Let\'s not forget that Memorial Day is for those who served and died fighting for the liberty of others. Veterans\' Day is for those who are living. \r\n\r\nI don\'t mean to sound petty, but this holiday should not be turned into a celebration of our current heroes at the expense of our deceased ones.','2003-05-26 07:33:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(2999,1,3526,'67.75.43.215','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','All those addle-pated twinkies who thought it great sport to poke and pester the giant are going to have to learn that they committed a collosal blunder. The price they will pay is large, but they\'ve only themselves to blame. \r\n\r\nToo bad for them! \r\n','2003-05-26 13:19:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3000,1,3526,'66.129.135.82','xavier','buscaraons@netscape.net','http://www.buscaraons.blogspot.com','Momma bear:\r\nI disagree. In fact the American decision to deny near space to any other country might have the opposite effect. It might just spur the countries to undertake the painful reform in order them to allow the resources to have a presence in near space. Some it\'ll be to spite the Americans. Others because they truly fear the havoc the Americans could do to their legitimate interests with such a monopoly. \r\nIn any case, the decision will only reinforce the perception that America will do anything to maintain its dominance and spur a new arms race.\r\nxavier','2003-05-26 14:50:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3001,1,3526,'165.121.131.40','Jay Solo','jaysolo@mindspring.com','http://jaysolo.blogspot.com','In any event, there\'s a current disconnet between what we can do in space, and what this policy would imply. It\'ll be interesting to see what concrete impact there is on space policy and infrastructure. Will NASA get a boost? Private firms? Will the military create a more independent presence? And if we\'re denying near earth space to other countries, what impact does that have on development of private launch firms anyway?\r\n\r\nI feel a post coming on...','2003-05-26 15:42:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3002,1,3526,'67.3.69.250','Insufficiently Sensitive','pootfontein@turkwad.net','','\"Spurring a new arms race\" is just one of the cliches usually employed to discourage the US from updating military capabilities. The antidemocratic European Union is already tied in a knot trying to salvage an economy- if they invested in an arms race at the expense of their beloved social programs, their citizenry might start acting democratic again and terminate some noble careers. And spiting the Americans is the national sport of lotsa places, it\'s way safer than spiting the Russians used to be. \r\n\r\nContrary to the received wisdom of the left, the US is not about to colonize the world any time soon, but it\'s not about to deliberately weaken itself to make some would-be Genghis Khan feel more comfortable, either.','2003-05-26 15:52:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3003,1,3526,'66.14.124.105','Jeff Medcalf','medcalf@caerdroia.org','http://www.caerdroia.org/blog/','This strikes me as eminently sensible. After all, we rely on our satellites for a lot of our edge - they are a huge force multiplier. We must protect them.\r\n\r\nOn the other hand, we\'d like to deny our enemies the chance to have such a force multiplier. In peacetime, I don\'t see any changes. In wartime, I suspect we\'d continue to buy every bit of commercial footage in our areas of operation in order to deny them to other users. In the case of satellites where we couldn\'t buy the tasking, and where the satellites were feeding information to the enemy (ahem, FRANCE, ahem), we could take them out with a relatively small cost to us, thus saving the lives of our soldiers.\r\n\r\nInterestingly, the best response to this would be to build a capacity to launch microsats (small, cheap) on virtually no notice - which would also be a nice spur to the kinds of capabilities needed for low-cost commercial exploitation of near-Earth space.\r\n','2003-05-26 17:53:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3004,1,3526,'66.129.135.82','xavier','buscaraosn@netscape.net','http://www.buscaraons.blogspot.com','Jeff:\r\nYes and that\'s what worries me tremendously (I\'m unconvincd that the French and Russian fed satellite photos to the Iraqis. No doubt Joe and the other members of the Winds of change will provide me with links. I have in the back of my head 2 scary scenarios:\r\n1) The 1997 ice storm that Quebec suffered. Half the province was without electricity for several weeks. There was a need to coordinate the evacuation and repair procedures. \r\n2) The Albright temptation: what\'s the point of having all this cool technology if we can use it.\r\n\r\nI worry that American could vote another Carter, Clinton or Nixon presidency. Imagine the temptation that some future administration will face. Now inmagine that the U.S. has a dispute with some country (let\'s say an allied country and decides to teach it a \'lesson\' but instead of temporarily disrupting the communications system ends up destroying it. Farfteched? Remember Clinton sent 2 cruise missile to blow up a camel and an aspirin factory.\r\n\r\nInsufficetly sensitive:\r\nWhat about the other countries? Do you really think they\'ll sit down and permit the Americans to update their capabilities without response? \r\nThe world won\'t trust American intention and won\'t be complacent while the American develop technologies than can clobber it.\r\n\r\nxavier ','2003-05-26 18:16:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3005,1,3526,'24.63.6.18','Steve Stein','szs@rcn.com','','Joe -\r\n\r\nYou say you \"remember reports that the French and Russians were feeding Iraq satellite data up to and possibly during the war\".\r\n\r\nI\'m sorry, but I\'m beginning to doubt most if not all the information my government was giving out before the war. (And this is beginning to make me angry, as it should anyone who remembers the Gulf of Tonkin resolution.)\r\n\r\nIn any case, up to now LEO has been international space, available to anyone who can get there. If we now start to deny it to whomever we feel like attacking, we\'re literally taking on the world. We\'re the biggest kid on the block now, but I think doing this will be disastrous in the long run.\r\n\r\nNot that that matters to the war-mongers who are running our country now.','2003-05-26 18:24:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3006,1,3520,'68.161.62.230','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Nice to see the link to the Bronowski book. I saw his TV series as a high-school student, and read several of his books. They made a profound impression on me. ','2003-05-26 19:18:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3007,1,3526,'208.187.41.29','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','\"He who controls space controls the future destiny of mankind.\"\r\n\r\nIt is simply logical for America to take control of near-earth space to ensure its dominance of the planet.\r\n\r\nSpace based weapons are one day going to replace American carrier battle groups as the primary tools of military force projection over the next 50 years.\r\n\r\nPoint in fact, the wide spread application of fiber optics to long haul telecommunication is removing the primary civilian application in space -- GEO com-sats.\r\n\r\nThe main paying customer for mobile satellite communications bandwidth in the 3rd world will be the US military because it pays its bills and 3rd world customers cannot be trusted to do that.\r\n\r\nPeople like to talk about \"asymetrical strategies.\" The bottom line is that American deployment of orbital missile defenses and kinetic energy strike weapons in orbit is the ultimate asymetrical strategy in dealing with other nation-states or kleptocracies claiming to control the territories of a nation-state.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-26 20:16:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3008,1,3525,'12.224.128.148','Cowboy Kahlil','Kahlil@despammed.com','http://reachm.blog-city.com/','There are many ways to celebrate Christmas, too, and ultimately such traditions are born in the heart, not within any rigid definition.\r\n\r\nA nation can participate in traditional ways, but individuals? I prefer to do what I can to keep the cemeteries less full, on Memorial Day and many others. ','2003-05-26 22:52:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3009,1,3525,'68.23.194.95','American Patriot','no-email@none.org','http://www.military.com','Col. David Hackworth, the famous American war hero and soldiers\' advocate (widely-read and respected by our military personnel and veterans, Col. Hackworth has been decorated more times than any other American alive today) had earlier posted at his website a good story that was written right before the start of the recent war.\r\n\r\nTHE WALL\r\nby Alfred A. Hambidge, Jr.\r\n\r\nThis is a very touching and very moving piece, which symbolizes the feelings of many of our veterans, and many of our fellow citizens, at a time like this. For today, it is especially appropriate.','2003-05-27 01:59:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3010,1,3516,'172.148.235.128','ecumenical jew','amdg001@aol.com','','There is another significance to the surprising punchline. Taking a hammmer and chisel to a drum to look inside it is the last thing that would occur to a person to do in the course of \"ordinary\" experience or as part of the \"ordinary\" understanding of things. Taking the truly extraordinary step, which perhaps only a learned mentor can suggest, is what leads to a new level of understanding, or a new awareness of what is possible. ','2003-05-27 06:30:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3011,1,3525,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Cowboy Kahlil, I think what Kate is saying is that you\'re free to do anything you like, but if it\'s not about those who died in uniform then you\'re being disingenuous by associating it with Memorial Day. She\'s right. \r\n\r\nYou\'re free to celebrate anything you like in your heart, and your actions in doing so may indeed be worthy - but a national holiday with a clear and explicit meaning cannot be celebrated by evading that meaning or appropriating it for another purpose. That\'s a hostile act, not a friendly one, howsoever it is couched.\r\n\r\nThe easy solution, of course, is BOTH/AND rather than EITHER/OR. You honour the fallen on Memorial Day, the living on Veteran\'s Day, and you keep the suffering of living veterans in your heart and your charitable activities every day.','2003-05-27 06:56:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3012,1,3254,'65.92.66.45','Joe','joe@hotmail.com','','Obviously if this was true he would\'ve taken the hundreds of millions that he had made and converted it into something that was valuable in his time: ie gold or diamonds etc and then taken it back with him on his ship.\r\n\r\nIn regards to all the people saying that he should\'ve already known he\'d been arrested that is simply not true. Once he came back in \"the past\" everything he does changes the future. So the future he knew would have never documented his arrest because it never happened until he went back and changed things.\r\n\r\nBy the way the only way this is all feasible is if you believe in parallel universes.','2003-05-27 11:51:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3013,1,3528,'211.28.96.43','parallel','parallel_nospam@optusnet.com.au','','As far as I know, the Free Aceh Movement (GAM) are not jihadi extremists, but nationalist separatists (of course, they are muslims). It is possible that I am misinformed.\r\n\r\nOf course, there are several jihadi movements in Indonesia, including those involved in the Bali bombing and those involved in attacks on Christians (and general inter-communal violence) in the Malaccas. ','2003-05-27 12:43:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3014,1,3529,'209.83.111.69','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Al Capone was a creation of prohibition law.\r\n\r\nAl was a consequence of government interference in markets.\r\n\r\nAl Capone was a self inflicted wound.\r\n\r\nThe article on Russia at the beginning points out the problem. No property law. \r\n\r\nWe are still at the point of human development where we know the answers but have failed to impliment the solutions.\r\n\r\nThe purpose of government\r\n1. Reduction of violence\r\n2. Reduction of fraud\r\n3. Protection of private property\r\n','2003-05-27 15:03:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3015,1,3526,'128.112.71.50','Ray','ray@princeton.edu','http://campuscgi.princeton.edu/~ray/weblog/','My two cents:\r\n\r\nWe shouldn\'t forget that we don\'t exist in a vacumn. Anybody who believes that the Russians, Chinese, and diverse others aren\'t working on ASAT capabilities is deluding himself. \r\n\r\nWe\'re just slightly ahead of the curve, because we have a better tech base. This sort of advantage can be fleeting indeed if not seized; the last world-spanning power very nearly came to a terrible end because they didn\'t maintain the edge in technologies they had, for the most part, developed. ','2003-05-27 15:14:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3016,1,3485,'146.126.51.51','Ptah','ptah@sixies.net','http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org','I\'m really sick and tired of the pro-socialist \"help the poor, unfortunate, lazy, and incompetent\" bleaters here and elsewhere who want to feed their sense of moral superiority by practicing their charity with other people\'s money.\r\n\r\nIf you want to help the poor, unfortunate, lazy, and stupid, then nothing is preventing YOU from using YOUR OWN resources from helping them. Nothing is preventing you from trying to convince others to join you in contributing THEIR OWN resources to help the poor, unfortunate, lazy, and stupid. \r\n\r\nBut oh no. YOU\'RE TOO DAMN LAZY TO DO THAT! You\'d much rather support a system where thugs TAKE THE MONEY from the productive and hard working WHO CREATED IT, launder it through their socialist government system, and hand it out to those YOU deem as \"worthy\" of blood money. That way, none of the beneficiaries will see who\'s really being bled to support them. Instead, YOU want them to see and give the credit to virtuous, glorious YOU, who voted for, set up, and supported such a \"generous\" \"compassionate\" system. \r\n\r\nDon\'t bat your puppy dog eyes at me and bleat, \"But I\'m not going to take MUCH! And it\'ll do so much GOOD!\" It\'t not the \"not much\" I object to, as much as the \"I\'m going to take\" part that pisses me off so much. You\'re not much better than crooks who try to salve their conscience by giving away to whomever they choose what they TAKE AWAY from people who demonstrate, by their hard work and efforts, their superiority in providing for themselves and refusing to be a burden on other people\'s backs. (YOU steal moral virtue, by the way, by stealing from the productive the opportunity to give that money away voluntarily, by taking that money away and forcing them to subsist on what YOU CHOOSE to leave them. Charitable giving SKYROCKETED during the Reagan years when people got more money back from the tax cuts, and were able to AFFORD being charitable. What\'s that? You don\'t think they\'d do that voluntarily? That choice is called FREEDOM, you damn bastard!)\r\n\r\n\"Morally superior?\" HAH! Crook! Thief! FAKE! I give away more than 10% of my PRE TAX income to various charities and organizations, but even if I only gave away one dollar, THAT ONE dollar, given of my own free will, has more moral backing than $1,000,000 YOU BLEED from the productive with the threat (and application) of force, and direct about with your imperial finger. ','2003-05-27 16:50:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3017,1,3526,'66.59.138.198','Jim','jimmylevendia@hotmail.com','','Steve Stein-\r\n\r\n\"We\'re the biggest kid on the block now, but I think doing this will be disastrous in the long run.\"\r\n\r\nI don\'t agree with you on this, but I believe I see your point. You believe that dominance in orbital weapons by the US will lead to the closing off of space to other nations, thus minimizing a peaceful human presence in space (this interpretation is open to correction, of course)\r\n\r\nI\'m with Trent and Ray over this. You\'re distrustful of the government, and to a great extent that\'s healthy and necessary. However, the US (percieved untrustworthyness notwithstanding) is preferable to the other possible contenders (eg Russia, China, the EU [aka \'Bureaucracy Triumphant\']) that can develop such a capacity. I\'ve heard that in politics, \"the perfect is the enemy of the good\". Not pressing ahead with this really will be disasterous for the US in the long run. Despite your reservations, that can\'t be what you want.','2003-05-27 17:05:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3018,1,3485,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','I\'m just amazed that this post continues to generate posts and debate. I think this is some kind of record here at Winds of Change.NET, as as always the debate has been mostly thoughtful on all sides.\r\n\r\nOn the whole, I think both Armed Liberal\'s quadrants and M. Simon\'s article have a similar flaw: they attempt to argue a political opponent out of existence. Socialism is not dead, nor is collapsing 2 radically different kinds of equality sufficient to end one of the primary philosophical debates in Western politics.\r\n\r\nSimon does put his finger on a growing trend toward the \"libertarian centre\", and since he laid it out in this article I\'ve been noticing evidence for it in a lot of places. I think the general divisions he outlines will manifest. That said, there is a substantial religious conservative base who will continue to play a role in future conservative coalitions (as uncomfortable as that may make some of us in that coalition). Likewise, the socialist Left has too many power bases in academia, the media, its direct economic clients et. al. to simply vanish during my lifetime. Both the Democrats and Republicans will likely be grappling with these internal contradictions for quite some time, and several major events would have to take place before Simon\'s prediction of \"the withering away of the Democratic Party\" became plausible. \r\n\r\nThe long term trends toward the \"libertarian centre\" look good at the moment, but events may yet intercede in unpredictable ways - and one should never underestimate the inertia and staying power of large human systems.','2003-05-27 18:06:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3019,1,3526,'171.161.160.10','Jeff Medcalf','medcalf@caerdroia.org','http://www.caerdroia.org/blog','The thing is, this is no different than maintaining weapons to deny the use of the sea to other nations, including our allies. We already do this. We in fact maintain the world\'s only credible seagoing area-denial capability: our carrier battle groups. If we decide that a nation is shipping goods to an enemy, we will intercept and if necessary destroy the ships of that nation which are in the war zone. All that this move does is treat space like the oceans: it\'s international territory - anyone can go there - but we are building the capabilities to ensure that that territory is not used against us, and can be used by us.\r\n\r\nI don\'t see this as a big, worrying development. We have a lot of capabilities, and it\'s nice to have more. Just because we have it, doesn\'t mean we\'ll use it on a whim. I would imagine that any nation would take the destruction or debilitation of one of its satellites as an act of war. We don\'t wantonly commit acts of war.\r\n','2003-05-27 18:14:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3020,1,3526,'208.187.141.139','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Ray,\r\n\r\n It is\'t a matter of \"tech-base.\"\r\n\r\n It is a matter of economic capability and political will.\r\n\r\n The USA has both. There isn\'t anyone else even close.\r\n','2003-05-27 18:25:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3021,1,3541,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','It is a great photo essay, and someone should tell Reid Stott. I\'ve been a fan of \"New Urbanism\" for a few years now, and Michael Totten\'s essay makes a real contribution by showing people instead of just writing about it.\r\n\r\nAs I\'m surprised you failed to point out, the reason for the improvements is an interventionist local government, who changed its codes and planning philosophy and now watches its city reaps the benefits... 100% slum clearance isn\'t shabby.\r\n\r\nIs there a clash between this approach and conservative political philosophy? I\'m not sure there is. Government does have proper functions, and there\'s a solid argument that places the strategy for a city\'s growth and development squarely within a government\'s core competence. The method chosen lets government regulate, then has the private sector build and develop on its own to create the results.\r\n\r\nThis kind of \"New Urbanist\" thinking ought to become an important centerpiece of debate and policy for conservative urban policy. If it does, I suspect the result will be a lot of common ground with centrist liberals. Since nothing less than that kind of consensus is required in order to fix the mistakes American (and Canadian) cities have made, the sooner we start the better.','2003-05-27 20:32:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3022,1,3541,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Joe:\r\n\r\nAgreed, but I think the implications are broader; not only does this model hold for urban planning, but I think that it can be a conceptual template for other kinds of policy.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-27 20:57:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3023,1,3254,'212.127.219.144','vormpie','vormpie@yahoo.com','','Not true actually... \r\n=he could not have come from \'\'our future\'\' because we died in it...\r\n=He came from \'\'HIS TIMELINE\'\' not ours.... so..\r\n=He did not change his future in his timeline... because he isnt there anymore\r\n=He cant change our future...because our future is now.. \r\n=he could only live his future together with us..... making a future together..\r\n\r\nsee.... our individual timelines would end where we end... if we could jump timelines.. you would instantly be lost.. never to go back again...\r\nBut we cant!...\r\n\r\nAlso... he could not know what was going to happen.... because he joined our timeline.. making it totally different from the one he lived before...\r\n\r\n(so.. if parallel unverses could explain this... then it isnt true)','2003-05-27 21:06:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3024,1,3541,'68.161.57.48','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','\"a conceptual template for other kinds of policy\"\r\n\r\nHave you guys heard of Christopher Alexander? He\'s an architect who was doing New Urbanism long before it became fashionable. In fact, he was doing an architectural version of Open Source too.\r\n\r\nIn a great example of cross-fertilization between very different disciplines, his ideas about housing profoundly influenced object-oriented programming.','2003-05-28 03:12:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3025,1,3543,'169.237.24.241','FH','scbaird@ucdavis.edu','','Fascinating. Would you consider yourself a Liberal Hawk? I assume that would be the case from your name, but want to be sure. I have always been stupified by the fact that those of the liberal(small L) tradition in contemporary society don\'t seem to understand the role violence played in creating and protecting our liberal freedoms(liberties). ','2003-05-28 03:12:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3026,1,3541,'68.161.57.48','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Never mind, AL - just read your reply to my comments in your other thread. Do you think CA\'s way of approaching building design works and is practical to teach builders and architects? It seems to address the issue of continuous improvement by creating small reusable chunks which can be combined with each other, which is why OOP developers like it so much.\r\n\r\nWhich brings up how this \"continuous and small reusable chunks process\" has gradually replaced \"the grand vision\" in software development also. Which has in turn influenced how competitive organizations are organized and led. Which probably in turn influenced how the US Armed Forces are organized.','2003-05-28 03:20:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3027,1,3535,'169.237.24.241','FH','scbaird@ucdavis.edu','','It is only a matter of time before Eco-terrorists start killing people in order to \"save animals.\" \r\n\r\nThe thing that really scares me is if these ec-freaks start getting together with Islamist terror groups to launch organized attacks on Western countries, specifically the US. They do share many of the same enemies(capitalism, globalism, judeo-christian tradition-they are mostly socialists after all-, and of course, \"the system\"). The Islamo-facists would be able to teach groups like ELF a lot, so we can only hope that their differences, which are quite big, prevent them from ever cooperating.','2003-05-28 03:24:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3028,1,3543,'64.171.3.74','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','People are human. They err. That is not a platform. That\'s a negative reason for being something or adhereing to some party. The question you raised was Why am I a Democrat, not, Why am I not a Republican.\r\n\r\nThis reflects much of the poverty of liberal Democrat thinking.','2003-05-28 03:34:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3029,1,3543,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Actually, I agree with every word A.L. just wrote.\r\n\r\nYes, there is \"...an epic struggle between religious fundamentalism and secular democracy\" going on, at least in the near to mid term. On a strategic level, that\'s the contest afoot. It\'s worth our attention. On a civilizational level, however, A.L. has described the contest properly:\r\n\r\n\"..a war of philosophies; of an alienated, frustrated, band of would-be warriors who are frustrated by what modernity means to them and mean to respond by pulling down the pillars of the temple. They are in Europe, and here in the U.S.\" \r\n\r\nIndeed, and that temple is being pulled down in ways both large and small. 9/11 simply threw that process, which lies beyond the present War on Terror, into sharper relief. As the war advances, it has clarified those dividing lines. It has asked people to claim sides, and having done so they may find themselves with strange allies. I suspect that if you had told Christopher Hitchens or The Village Voice\'s Nat Hentoff 5 years ago that some of their most reliable allies would be right-wing conservatives, they would have told you to go back on your meds. You\'d have received the same reaction had you told many right-wing Conservatives at the time that one day their hero would be \"Third Way\" Europhile socialist Tony Blair.\r\n\r\nDiversity has traditionally been one of the West\'s great strengths, and here we find it all unlooked-for. We will need it. As we will need our other great strength: the faith of a civilization in itself and its ideals, even as affairs within that civilization are open to discussion and fierce debate. That, too, is required for victory - and here, too, those who brand themselves as \"conservative\" cannot achieve it alone.\r\n\r\nAnd so we go on, hoping and working for a future in which many, many others will have the opportunity to share in our arguments, and invent some of their own... and maybe remind us, as so many newcomers to our way of life do, just what that way is worth.','2003-05-28 03:46:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3030,1,3541,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','True on all counts. Judith, the breadth of your interests and insightful comments rarely fails to amaze me.','2003-05-28 03:56:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3031,1,3535,'65.27.184.129','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com','FH: Don\'t clutch that reed too tightly. Differences have a tendency of being ignored by terrorist groups when it\'s convenient for them. In Netanyahu\'s book on combating terrorism, he gives the example of Mideast terrorist training camps being used -- simultaneously -- by neo-Nazi, Marxist, and Islamist groups. Granted, they were all being funded by the Soviets, but they were happy to live by \"the enemy of my enemy is my friend -- for now\".\r\n\r\nThough, to be honest, I think the white supremacists are the more likely bridge groups. They can find commonality with ecoterrorists and Islamists.','2003-05-28 04:16:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3032,1,3532,'64.171.3.74','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','The Army should offer the AH-64 for the A-10 and derivative craft.','2003-05-28 05:14:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3033,1,3532,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','If the Army goes ahead with this, they should be bought used at $1 million apiece. The Marines should buy 100-125. The ideal close air support aircraft for the best close air support pilots. It wouldn\'t deploy as a carrier wing, but their supplies can move by sea and once land bases are available, flying them into theater is no problem.\r\n\r\nBritain should pick up 50 or so, to up their leverage and importance in any future international deployments, and cement their status as the next-best fighting force to America\'s. It would give them a capability they currently lack, even with their Harriers and Tornados. I\'d recommend this as an amazingly smart move by Canada instead to create the Canadian Air Expeditionary Wing for U.S. cooperation and U.N. deployment, but they\'d never do it.\r\n\r\nSouth Korea should pick up 50-75, for all-too-obvious reasons. Israel should pick up 50 of its own, for equally obvious reasons. And we should give 20 to the Afghans, possibly via a \"Flying Tigers\" type setup.\r\n\r\nIdeally, however, the USAF would simply come to their senses and choose to just keep the planes.','2003-05-28 05:47:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3043,1,3543,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','So, Jeff, I\'m counting four parties??\r\n\r\nI think you\'re underestimating the resilience of the parties and the importance of the electoral mechanics (both in the human and systems sense) controlled by the parties. Perot found that out; Ventura is an interesting counterexample, but Minnesota politics are cheap and simple because of the population/media distribution in the state.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-29 05:25:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3034,1,3544,'169.237.24.241','FH','scbaird@ucdaivs.edu','','If the WOT has shown anything, it is that the air force needs more, and better, Air Support combat planes. The A-10 is good, but is based on dated 70\'s tech. Its time to start working on a replacement, perhaps something using vector thrust technology to give it better evasion capability.','2003-05-28 06:04:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3035,1,3532,'169.237.24.241','FH','scbaird@ucdavis.edu','','\"South Korea should pick up 50-75, for all-too-obvious reasons. Israel should pick up 50 of its own, for equally obvious reasons. And we should give 20 to the Afghans, possibly via a \"Flying Tigers\" type setup.\"\r\n\r\nHell, lets give \'em to the Iraqis! The terrain there is perfect for their use, at least in the South, West and parts of the South-East. Nice flat, open territory, no where to hide, no where to place a couple of SAMS for some up the kilt shots. And the Iraqis no doubt would fully understand their importance, considering how much damage the A-10 did to them. ','2003-05-28 06:11:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3036,1,3543,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','FH -\r\n\r\nYes, I certainly am a Liberal Hawk. I\'ve actually written on *that*, as well as being an \'*armed liberal*\' before; easier to click through than to restate.\r\n\r\nRichard -\r\n\r\n\"This reflects much of the poverty of liberal Democrat thinking.\" And that perfectly epitomized the intellectual laziness (I\'ve posted about a dozen specific policy documents on this site, not to mention what I\'ve put up at Armed Liberal) and narrowmindedness (you\'re not looking for a discussion, you\'re hoping to score points with the Big Debate Judge In The Sky - and guess what - she\'s dead) that keeps the doctrinaire Right from truly dominating American politics at a time when they should own it. \r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-28 06:24:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3037,1,3543,'66.14.124.105','Jeff Medcalf','medcalf@caerdroia.org','http://www.caerdroia.org/blog','I believe that the Democrats are about to self-destruct in a very thorough way, much as the extreme right did in the late-1980s to mid-1990s.\r\n\r\nI believe that politicians like George Bush and Zell Miller and John McCain and Joe Lieberman will pull towards each other, and will pull in certain Libertarian elements, together creating an agenda of muscular self-defense abroad, broad individual rights at home, with a true safety net for those who cannot help themselves, respect for individuals no matter the groups they belong to, and reasonable levels of taxation and regulation.\r\n\r\nI believe that the remaining far-right elements of the Republican Party and the remaining far-left elements of the Democratic Party, along with the Greens and such extremist groups as the ELF and KKK will end up together promoting an agenda of isolationism and militant self-loathing, combined with large-scale government interference in both personal and public affairs and a deep commitment to victimhood and victimization.\r\n\r\nI believe that the former group will end up being called Republicans and the latter group will end up being called Democrats, because the names haven\'t changed in a long time (and aren\'t likely to now) and that fit is closest to what\'s happening right now.\r\n\r\nI believe that the interesting part of this transformation will be where each current party splits (my guess: 75-80% of current Republicans and 35-40% of current Democrats go into the new Republican coalition, with the rest of each party ending up in the new Democratic coalition).\r\n\r\nI believe that this has already begun. I believe that it will accelerate. I believe that George Bush will win a second term. I believe that some time during that second term, likely in its third year, there will be another major terrorist attack within the Continental United States. I believe that the 2008 election will be the catalyst for the realignment I describe above.\r\n\r\nI believe that people will be asking me in 2009 how I could have gotten all of these predictions so terribly wrong. :-)\r\n','2003-05-28 06:56:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3038,1,3543,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','They might. Never underestimate the inertia and staying power of institutions. Especially those with long pedigrees and high levels of emotional attachment.','2003-05-28 07:18:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3039,1,3537,'207.168.131.202','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Makes you wonder why resistance continues to snipe at American soldiers and marines. They want this piece of crap and his father back?\r\nOr maybe they wish for the same Islamic fanatic regime that the Iranians have and wish to get rid of? ','2003-05-28 13:22:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3040,1,3537,'208.20.220.69','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','Words fail me.\r\n\r\nThere are all manner of monsters walking the Earth, but, as Dave said above, only today do we hear people actively defend the monsters\' right to continue their obscenities. If Uday Hussein isn\'t sufficient to evoke their condemnation, I can\'t imagine what would be.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-28 13:48:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3041,1,3543,'68.117.129.22','Jean Horak','pjhwittig@yahoo.com','','I think you\'re right, Jeff, but in reverse. No outside initiated terrorist attack (homegrown only) and the Democrates will be the isolationists -- the KKK and southern right wings will never be part of \"Lincoln\'s party\". ','2003-05-28 15:04:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3042,1,3532,'66.129.135.82','xavier','buscarons@netscape.net','http://www.buscaraons.blogspot.com','Joe:\r\nInteresting proposal. I also conclude that it\'s time for the Congress and the administration to take a very hard line with the 1947 Key west agreement and throw it out. The A 10 should go to the ground forces. The air force will scream and succumb to a temper tantrum but that\'ll be the moment to sack the dead wood. Those fighter pilot jocks have always been snobs when it comes to ground support so if they don\'t want the job give the planes to those who will.\r\n\r\nxavier \r\n','2003-05-29 02:14:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3044,1,3543,'66.14.124.105','Jeff Medcalf','medcalf@caerdroia.org','http://www.caerdroia.org/blog','I don\'t think that our system would comfortably support more than two large parties, because of its adversarial nature. I see two parties, called the Democrats and the Republicans, with somewhat different make-ups and positions than they now have. There is precedent, as recently as the 1960s.\r\n','2003-05-29 05:52:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3045,1,3531,'207.69.81.243','rdc','cart6566@bellsouth.net','','I think it does matter who defeats Hamas, et al. It has to be the PA. If it is Israel, the Road Map will not work, because it would entail the more and escalated military incursions which play into the hands of the Palestinian hate/murder institutions.\r\n\r\nNot holding my breath.','2003-05-29 13:03:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3046,1,3543,'208.187.143.162','Charles Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','','Over the last decade I\'ve come to accept Strauss and Howe\'s \"Generations\" as the template for our history: Eighty year cycles. What is going on now has occurred before (at least four times in the past 300 years). The Democratic Party is in decline because it refused to take the crisis we are now in seriously. They worried about union job security during the Homeland Security debate and that cost them the Senate. In the last crisis (1929-1945) the Republican party refused to take the depression and the rise of fascism seriously and it was marginalized for the next 50 years. It occasionally won the presidency (1952 and 1968) but never set the national agenda and only picked up Democratic crumbs. The Democratic party is on that same road now because it has developed such a tin ear. But remember, Strauss and Howe have said our history moves in 80 year cycles and at some point in the 2040\'s a new generation of hippies will emerge. When those members of the \"greatest generation\" were storming Omaha Beach they could never imagine the \"Summer of Love\" would happen in 1967. ','2003-05-29 15:04:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3047,1,3539,'67.89.203.188','Anne','annezook@allmail.net','','At least the U.N. is sending troops to the scene, even if too few. The USofA has done nothing.\r\n\r\nAnd I\'d say anyone sitting in the USofA under this Administration should be kind of careful about pointing fingers at people who are ineffectual and incompetent.','2003-05-29 15:15:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3048,1,3539,'143.111.216.115','Aziz','azizhp@com.yahoo','http://unmedia.blogspot.com','\r\nbut how did mass availability of guns prevent Saddam Hussein from carrying out his pogroms?','2003-05-29 15:20:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3049,1,3543,'67.74.139.47','JC','JC@earthlink.com','','Everyone seems to be ignoring the tribal dynamics coming into play now that the \"New Left\" boomer\'s program of abolishing the U.S. as it had evolved to 1965 is bearing fruit in the form of multiculturalism and mass migration(NOT immigration,we\'ve passed that point long ago).\r\nAs to the staying power of institutions,well,people are beginning to abandon public education in increasing numbers,prompting a predictable authoritarian reponse.\r\nWhite southern voters have the most reason of any tribe today to boycott elections,Democrats openly despise them and REpublicans betray them.But of course the Repubs can\'t win without them,so the WSJ\'s call to purge them is a stupid gesture to win yuppie approval,nothing more.I think there may be some potetntial for a regional party at least at state level to have some impact\r\n\r\nThe single biggest issue arising today is the insistance of neo-cons,leftists and libertarians to claim the U.S is merely an abstract concept rather than a concrete reality of a distinct population defined by a unique history and a distinct culture.\r\nPeople rarely hold deep emotional attachments to vaugue concepts,\"marriage\" is a concept but a marriage is something real,not abstract.','2003-05-29 15:29:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3050,1,3535,'152.163.190.1','Celeste','celeste@windsofchange.net','http://permagringirl.blogspot.com','There was also, if I recall correctly, IRA collusion with the KGB, and I\'ll try to hunt down news accounts of it, and I also seem to recall IRA involvement with columbian narco-terrorists.\r\n\r\nI think it more likely you\'ll find a structure closer to that of the relationship Sinn Fein has with the IRA. Groups like PETA, and the Sierra Club act as the political mouth-pieces of these groups. PETA, in particular, has used the funds it receives through charitable donations to directly support the ELF, and animal-rights terrorists. PETA helps ecoterrorists out with their funding, and they in turn publish information on websites with instructions on how to commit terrorist acts. PETA consistently refuses to condemn ecoterrorism. Sounds kind of like the House of Saud.\r\n\r\n\"Our nonviolent tactics are not as effective. We ask nicely for years and get nothing. Someone makes a threat, and it works.\"\r\n? Ingrid Newkirk, in the April 8, 2002 issue of US News & World Report\r\n\r\n\"I will be the last person to condemn ALF.\"\r\n? Ingrid Newkirk, in the New York Daily News, December 7, 1997','2003-05-29 16:35:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3051,1,3535,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','We\'ve blogged the IRA\'s connections with FARC here before... just run a search for \"IRA\" here at Winds of Change.NET, there\'s lots of stuff.\r\n\r\nRe: connections with the KGB and its satellite intelligence services (incl. the Czechs, providers of SEMTEX explosive and arms), the best source is Claire Sterling\'s \"The Terror Network.\"','2003-05-29 17:15:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3052,1,3539,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Anne, since I\'m not sitting in the USA, I guess I have carte blanche. That\'s French, a language some of us speak up here.\r\n\r\nSending \"some troops\" but too few to do anything and under rules of engagement that prevent them from being effective even if there were enough, is in fact worse than sending none at all. As we saw at Srebrenica in Bosnia. All that does in endanger the troops and provide a dangerous illusion of security for the locals (but good PR optics elsewhere). It is the essence of uncaring cynicsm. We saw that in Rwanda, too, as Kofi Anan denied requests for reinforcements or timely action.\r\n\r\nThe USA is busy, and so are the Brits (and in fairness, the Germans who are on station in several places). China is a Security Council member with the world\'s largest army. Where are they? Where is India, a country with traditional ethnic ties into Africa? Italy is not a poor country, and has a fine army. Belgium actually bears some direct responsibility because of its history in the Congo. France has a Security Council seat. So does Russia. Why is it that none of them seem bothered enough to lift a finger, or criticize half-measures known to be useless even as this tragic crisis played out?\r\n\r\nThe U.N. in a nutshell: cynical people who pretend to care, even as they ignore or facilitate mass murder.\r\n\r\nThe USA isn\'t the only country in the world that has global responsibilities. And if the UN wishes to pretend it has them too, it had better step up and prove that it deserves them.','2003-05-29 17:42:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3053,1,3539,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Aziz, re: the Kurds... that\'s easy. It forced Hussein to carry out pogroms instead of wholesale genocide. With the Kurds armed, Saddam had to send in full army formations (expensive), show some restraint in urban areas like Mosul and Kirkuk, and resort to chemical warfare in order to reduce the risk to his own troops while carrying out mass-murder.\r\n\r\nIf the Kurds had been uniformly disarmed, does anyone really doubt that Saddam would have rounded up tens or even hundreds of thousands more of them, and efficiently killed them in an orderly and continuous program - rather than less efficient pogroms? Ba\'athist ideology is directly descended from Fascism, and Saddam\'s record overall is quite clear. I don\'t doubt it at all.','2003-05-29 17:45:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3054,1,3539,'143.111.216.115','Aziz','azizhp@com.yahoo','http://unmedia.blogspot.com','agreed, Joe - but the simple fact that Saddam could indeed still carry out pogroms suggests that arming the Congolese alone isn\'t going to be much of a solution. It might even make things worse because there\'s no way to guarantee that the guns are selectively dispensed to the \"right\" people.','2003-05-29 18:02:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3055,1,3548,'216.68.253.1','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com/','The jerk that made the accusations against Col. Collins not only was trying to get even, he\'s a high school guidance counselor.\r\n\r\nSure, there are some good counselors out there. But remember the scene from \"Clerks\"?','2003-05-29 18:16:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3056,1,3543,'207.162.229.11','Yaron','yaron@toast.com','','I hold out the faintest hope that the two-party system could transform into Republicans vs. Libertarians over, say, the next 20 years. By Libertarians I mean possibly but not necessarily what is now the Libertarian Party, which has so far proven ineffectual and sort of kooky. It\'s unlikely that mainstream politics could become dominated by two right-wing parties, but not impossible: some section of the Democrats\' current broad base of voters (by this I mean not the party loyalists) have be considered \"protest\" voters, turned off of the Republican Party mostly on civil-liberties issues like abortion, or gay rights, or some Republicans\' historical associations with racism, or concerns about military spending (not saying the Democrats differ substantially on any of these but abortion, but at least that\'s the perception). If a viable 3rd option came into play that neutralized these issues, and voters could be convinced they weren\'t throwing their votes away, a large portion of these people I think could be brought over to the libertarian side. As for the true liberals and statists, the more reasonable of them might be brought over into the \"moderate\", Olympia Snowe/Arlen Specter wing of the Republican party, the rest would just have to make do with being ignored in mainstream politics... not so different from the current situation, really.','2003-05-29 18:37:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3057,1,3539,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Arming the pygmies would probably be difficult. \r\nNot sure it would work, either.\r\n\r\nFirst, you\'d have to pick small, almost-never jam, low-recoil weapons. Training them would be the biggest hurdle (language? and this ain\'t no blowgun, folks), though once trained their environment would make them a real threat to those who invaded their territory. But how would one make contact? Arrange that training? Difficult.\r\n\r\nNot sure it isn\'t worth trying, though, given the alternative of waiting for a UN that will do nothing or worse, and an America too preoccupied elsewhere (Iraq, Iran, Korea) to help. It\'s the sort of immediate thing that could be done cheaply and immediately, using just a few Special Forces teams plus helicopter support, 2-3 medium transport planes, and a small wing of 4-5 jets. The rest of the country would still be a hellhole, but at least the Pygmies would have some protection and we\'d begin building a base for future action.\r\n\r\nMy preferred solution would be country-wide, using about 50,000 troops backed by armored vehicles, portable artillery (mortars and 105s), helicopters, and an air squadron or two, having few rules of engagement and given a command to restore order by any means necessary. Those last clauses and heavy support are what allow the numbers to be that low - it has been done before in Africa, and we\'re long past the point of half-measures.\r\n\r\nBut again, the USA has Iraq, Iran and North Korea to worry about. They\'re fully booked. The UK is as committed as it can be. If anything is going to get done in the Congo, others will have to step up with the tools to do the job - or reveal both their global pretensions and moral authority to be empty.','2003-05-29 19:15:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3058,1,3544,'65.32.209.64','Bill','wrouse@tampabay.rr.com','','Transfer the A-10 to the Army and/or the Marines.\r\nThe Marines would know how to use the A-10 in close air support!','2003-05-29 19:56:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3059,1,3547,'4.42.48.175','Rand Simberg','windsofchange@interglobal.org','http://www.interglobal.org/weblog','I wondered at the time how they knew she \"fought fiercely,\" but one of the news articles said it was based on enemy chatter. There does still seem to be a tremendous lack of public knowledge about this entire story, with no effort on the part of the Pentagon to rectify that situation. The Lynch family has said that they\'re under restrictions as to what they can and cannot talk about.\r\n\r\nWhich is not, of course, to defend Bob Scheer in any way...','2003-05-29 20:06:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3060,1,3544,'198.26.130.36','Skid','skid@theriver.com','','I flew with Dave Deptula (we were F-15C pilots together in USAFE - Soesterberg AB, NL), and I suppose my resume would qualify me for the fighter mafia as well.\r\n\r\nI now work as a civilian contractor at Davis-Monthan AFB AZ, where I provide academic and simulator training courseware to support the USAF\'s central A/OA-10 schoolhouse, or flying training unit.\r\n\r\nOur current five-year contract ends this September 30th, and we\'re currently competing for the next five-year gig which starts October 1st. Several other contractors have put in bids.\r\n\r\nMy point is that we\'re still training A/OA-10 pilots, and we\'ll be doing so for at least five more years.\r\n\r\nMany of us at the grunt level of the fighter pilot mafia are strong supporters of the A/OA-10, and wish the USAF had a stronger commitment to close air support.\r\n\r\nRegards,\r\nSkid','2003-05-29 20:08:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3061,1,3547,'68.85.101.77','Alene Berk','lene1@myrealbox.com','','Sorry; IMHO you\'re missing the target, and so, disingenuously or maliciously, did Scheer, the Star, and the BBC.\r\n\r\nIt\'s the Pentagon that\'s being accused, but what did the official briefings, and the (dull) released video say? Here is some video of a rescue of a POW; we rescue our own when we can; good news! No firing inside the hospital, but had been used for military purposes. Unforthcoming about much that was rumored and asked by the press, citing both privacy policy and lack of knowledge.\r\n\r\nIt was the media that hyped this, on unconfirmed and unattributed rumors. The ultra anti fringe hated the story and the joy some took in it, whatever the details. So why point the finger at the Pentagon, which was very cautious in its statements?\r\n\r\nWas there media hype? Yes. Was the official tale as told at briefings consistent with the \"staged event\" \"big lie\" theory? On the contrary, at almost every point, Brooks cooled things down. So take the overexcited fog-of-war coverage, and blame the Pentagon! Yeah, right. ','2003-05-29 21:02:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3062,1,3547,'138.133.17.9','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Alene, I\'m puzzled...where did I blame the Pentagon? I think it\'s pretty clear that there was spinning going on, but that\'s a world away from a \'staged for TV event\' which is what Scheer and the Beeb certainly seemed to me claiming the rescue to be.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-29 21:23:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3063,1,3552,'204.128.192.103','BigFire','dyingearth@hotmail.com','','And is it no wonder that Turkmenistan is currently run by a Stalinistic despot? Hell, this deal even beats the TotalFinaElf deal with Iraq.','2003-05-29 21:31:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3064,1,3545,'68.161.137.203','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Thanks for the link, AL. I added a brief addendum.','2003-05-29 21:36:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3065,1,3552,'216.250.88.165','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','\"If the USA did this, it would be called the worst kind of energy imperialism.\"\r\n\r\nRightly so, no? Why is this important? Maybe I\'m missing something, but if you\'re an American, it should be your responsibility to expose US crimes and conflicts of interest, not Russia\'s. Unlike the latter, you can, at least in theory, do something about the former.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-29 22:37:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3066,1,3532,'198.26.130.36','Skid','skid@theriver.com','','I speak as a former USAF F-15 pilot, and someone who happened to fly with Dave Deptula back in the day. Most fighter pilots I know have nothing but respect for the A-10 and fully support the CAS mission.\r\n\r\nThere\'s no snobbery to it. Those guys on the ground may well include our brothers, or sons, or brothers-in-law. Or even one of us, pulling a ground FAC tour with the Army.\r\n\r\nThat said, I\'d be a liar if I denied that the USAF, as an entity, has never gotten behind the CAS mission or the A-10, despite the A-10\'s demonstrated success. Right now the USAF\'s wagons are circled, protecting the F/A-22. Let\'s hope some of that energy is left to protect the JSF in three or four years, because it will replace the A-10 in the CAS role.\r\n\r\nRegards,\r\nSkid\r\n','2003-05-29 23:12:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3067,1,3547,'64.102.241.5','Annoying Old Guy','aog@thought-mesh.net','http://blog.thought-mesh.net','A.L.\r\n\r\nAlene is referring to the context you set, Scheer vs. the Pentagon. In particular for items (2) and (3), what evidence is there that the Pentagon made such claims? By making the accuracy of such claims determine advantage to or against the Pentagon you associate (\"blame\") the Pentagon for those stories. If the Pentagon didn\'t start or support such tales, then even if the stories are total fabrications it doesn\'t advantage Scheer against the Pentagon. In fact, one might argue \"advantage: Pentagon\" on the basis that Scheer is attacking the wrong target.','2003-05-29 23:36:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3068,1,3547,'138.133.17.9','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','A.O.G. -\r\n\r\nI\'ve probably spent too much time with politicians; I tend to listen for the spinner behind each news story. You\'re right that that\'s my assumption, and that I should chalk more up to the \'fog of press deadlines\'...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-29 23:45:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3069,1,3552,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Oh yes, rightly so. This has \"ripoff\" written all over it in big neon letters. I\'m not an economist, but to my eye it sure looks like energy imperialism.\r\n\r\nWe stop agreeing when Jonathan intones the mantra of America-haters everywhere:\r\n\r\n\"...if you\'re an American, it should be your responsibility to expose US crimes and conflicts of interest, not Russia\'s. Unlike the latter, you can, at least in theory, do something about the former.\"\r\n\r\nThis excuse is ages-old, and \"excuse\" is exactly what it is. It\'s an open declaration that one will not see evil anywhere but America. Its logical end point is James Hudnall\'s line that \"No one seems to get outraged by mass murder unless Americans or Israelis are involved.\" This is, I submit, despicable.\r\n\r\nTranspose one identity, and rewind to 1940, and presumably it would remain equally true:\r\n\r\n\"...if you\'re an American, it should be your responsibility to expose US crimes and conflicts of interest, not Nazi Germany\'s. Unlike the latter, you can, at least in theory, do something about the former.\"\r\n\r\nWhich was, of course, an argument put forth by Joe Kennedy and others of the extreme right wing at the time. One they shared with the American Communist Party, at least until Hitler dissolved his alliance with Stalin and invaded Russia.\r\n\r\nIt was the same argument heard in the 60s, 70s and 80s, too, by demonstrators who protested U.S. policy in Europe and said not a word for the people like Vaclav Havel and others. Real Havel and his compatriots as they talk about this - they\'re still bitter about it, and still hold those people in the most abject moral contempt. Rightly so.\r\n\r\nI covered this very tendency in greater depth back on May 7th, and the materials in the UPDATE are worth re-reading. The leftist Michael Walzer makes this point better than I, and it\'s a point worth heeding. At least, if one wants to belong to a decent left that has any credibility with mainstream American society... or serious people elsewhere.','2003-05-29 23:50:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3070,1,3523,'67.74.133.134','Jack Cluth','yuppieskum@yahoo.com','http://intellectualize.org','Thanks for the kind words.(I always love the \"He\'s a liberal, but...\" part!) Too many people associate Liberals with being fuzzy-headed morons. Well, I\'m here to plead the case for clean-cut morons!! Cheers....','2003-05-30 01:56:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3071,1,3510,'64.91.160.203','Jay Solo','jaysolo@mindspring.com','http://jaysolo.blogspot.com','Wow! That is a truly impressive analysis, which I have no reason to believe is anything but 100% on the nose. Great job.\r\n','2003-05-30 05:55:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3072,1,3510,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','\"This ruling faction is nothing so much as a cross between 1940\'s Trotskites...\"\r\n\r\nNo, no, no. Those became the neoconservatives, who now run the Republican Party thanks to disciples like Richard PERLE. Viva el revolucion!\r\n\r\nI think the Democrats got the Maoists or something :-)','2003-05-30 06:07:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3073,1,3510,'24.90.251.209','someone','no@one.no','','2004 is one thing. The question is, who\'s going to be running in 2008? Hillary, yes. But on the Republican side, unless it\'s Rice I\'m not sure our candidate will be someone who\'ll really drive home the national security advantage.\r\n\r\nThere\'s still a lot that can happen anyway. Wasn\'t everyone talking about 50-50 America before 9/11? One event can change everything.','2003-05-30 06:16:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3074,1,3510,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Trent, want to make this a bit interesting?? I think the Dems will lose the White House in \'04 - but it is going to be fairly close. The DLC controls the levers of cash, and McKinney and Sharpton will provide the Sistah Soljah\'s needed for the eventual candidates to push to the center.\r\n\r\nThe war in the M.E. is going to be in that difficult long-term phase, requiring patience and sacrifice - something I haven;t seen in long supply from the GOP leadership.\r\n\r\nDinner at Arthur Bryant\'s on the loser??\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-30 07:03:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3075,1,3553,'68.40.150.235','Dean Esmay','dean@deanesmay.com','http://www.deanesmay.com','Excellent, Joe, just excellent.\r\n\r\nWe need a sane and decent Left. God, it\'s got to be hard to be one these days. When virtue is defined by cynicism and contempt for your own nation and culture, something\'s wrong.','2003-05-30 07:54:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3076,1,3552,'12.249.42.123','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','\"The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them. \" \r\n\r\n-- George Orwell, \"Notes on Nationalism\"\r\n\r\n\r\n\"...if you\'re an American, it should be your responsibility to expose US crimes and conflicts of interest, not Nazi Germany\'s. Unlike the latter, you can, at least in theory, do something about the former.\"\r\n
\r\n\r\nOr how about:\r\n\r\n...If you\'re a German, it should be your primary responsibility to expose Nazi crimes, not France\'s or Englands.\r\n
\r\n\r\nMr Katzman, \r\n\r\nThe demagogic value of your Nazi rendition of my quote aside, as much as it might be shocking, it is still true and rational. You should not seek to highlight crimes of your enemies at the price of ignoring the crimes you have a capability of ending or preventing. Perhaps if American intellectuals paid less attention to the fabricated fears of enemy workers movements overseas who threatened centralized control of industrial power, they would have noticed US military and economic support for fascist regimes throughout Europe, like Nazi Germany and like Fascist Italy, or Fascist Spain under Franco, when knowledge of their atrocities was not at all a secret. Hopefully you wouldn\'t argue that the US entered World War II because it was opposed ideologically to Fascism or to what Hitler, instead of it being ok so long as it didn\'t conflict with US power interests. As bad as Nazism was and as easy as it is to manipulate it to make emotional arguments half a century later, the rational minded person should still apply the same principles to themselves as they would their enemies. If Hitler didn\'t have unquestioning, patriotic support from Germans he might not have been able to commit his crimes. \r\n\r\nThat doesn\'t mean we shouldn\'t understand the crimes of our enemies, we should seek understanding about anything we can change for the better. However, If you\'re an American, and have an American audience, where is there any moral value whatsoever in exposing the crimes of regimes you can do little about, if it requires neglecting crimes you can easily stop? What would the benefits to humans be if American Intellectuals spent more time highlighting the crimes of regimes the US government sells arms to, paramilitaries the US trains, or regimes which commit crimes against humanity with US support, and, importantly, the US official involvement in these crimes?\r\n\r\nWhat if instead of American intellectuals spending hours writing trying to educate other Americans about the crimes of Russia, China, Cuba, North Korea, or Iraq, they spent as much time writing about the crimes of countries that go on with US support, funding, arms, training, etc? Why not spend half of that time educating Americans about, for example, their government\'s diplomatic, military, and financial support for a violent coup in Indonesia which cost hundreds of thousands of people their lives, bringing to power a despot named Suharto who then invaded the small island of East Timor and killed another half a million people or more. Or why not the history of a coup in Guatemala which resulted in another near Genocide, or a coup in Chile which installed a neo-fascist regime, or how these events generalize throughout Latin America, again, with the support of US taxpayers. \r\n\r\nSurely plenty of people could benefit from these things coming into public debate, and then at least you\'d be in a better position to talk about the crimes of enemies, being that you don\'t tacitly support, and seemingly refuse to acknowledge, those same crimes when they\'re commited by your friends. \r\n\r\nPerhaps a productive project for the Winds of Change staff would be to start coming up with ways to hold the US accountable for its genocide in Vietnam? Surely there\'s more moral value to that than trying to hold Hitler or Stalin accountable genocides that happened twice as long ago, the US is, afterall, still in power and Americans can have an effect on its policy.','2003-05-30 07:58:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3077,1,3510,'169.237.24.241','FH','scbaird@ucdavis.edu','','Interesting read. It seems to me that 2004 is pretty much over, barring, of course, any major economic damage. The question is whether or not the GOP can hold the Congress in 2006. Because once Bush is in his second term he won\'t be able to support Congress as much, and voter\'s will be much more willing to punish the GOP for a bad economy, feeling that enough time has passed since 9/11. As for 2008, that could be real interesting. It depends on who is running. A crappy GOP candidate could lose, even if the platform is better. But I think Hillary will go for the Dem nomination, and likely get it. And then get creamed in the general election by a decent GOP contender. I tend to agree the GOP will have the advantage in the presidential race, unless the Dems somehow dramatically beef up their national security stats. The real question is who will run for the GOP nomination in \'08. It sure isn\'t going to be Chaney, who, IMO, should drop out in \'04. ','2003-05-30 08:44:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3078,1,3552,'12.249.42.123','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','It might be a useless exercise arguing with someone with totalitarian tendencies. The term \"America Hater\" is despicable. That you can\'t be honest about American crimes without hating America is the logical equivalent of saying you couldn\'t understand the crimes of your brother without hating your brother.\r\n\r\nWhat is the purpose of learning the history of Russian crimes? It has to be purely intellectual. But there is also a practical purpose of history, which is something foreign to a lot of intellectuals. In practical terms, learning about Russian or Chinese crimes rates low compared to learning about the crimes that happen with our tacit support or behind our backs because people are too uncomfortable to talk about facts that are under their nose. If the mainstream media refuses to discuss them, as independent intellectuals with an audience, I don\'t see how the moral imperative doesn\'t become clearer.\r\n\r\nIf your audience can\'t use the knowledge you\'re giving in a practical way to make lives better, there is only limited value to it. There is practical and moral value, and arguably moral necessity, to bringing American crimes to light to an American audience, because the lives of many people in the third world living under the gun of thugs the American government and corporations support, for reasons of economic dominance, could immediately be made better.* But that is if and only if this was something people could freely debate without being called \"American Haters\" by people who would otherwise be Fascist cheerleaders if, for some weird reason, we were ever conquered and then occupied by the murderous Fascist dictatorship the US supported in Brazil in the 1960\'s.\r\n\r\n*and if the principled approach isn\'t enough, there are pragmatic reasons as well. In Saudi Arabia 15 people decided to commit suicide by flying planes into buildings into two symbols of US military and economic might. Saudi Arabia was the recipient of, off the top of my head, 43 billion dollars in military and security sales over the past decade, much of it funded by US and Saudi taxpayers. Saudi Arabia also is one of the leading violators of Human Rights on the planet, and a large supplier of oil to the West. It would be impressive ignorance to think these things don\'t have any relationship. ','2003-05-30 08:54:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3079,1,3553,'68.5.110.43','Kevin Drum','calpundit@cox.net','http://www.calpundit.com','Well, just so I can be clear here....\r\n\r\nAre you suggesting that we should stop criticizing our own government and our own actions? Or only that we should criticize anyone who betrays our ideals?\r\n\r\nI assume the latter, but it\'s not entirely clear from your post. It sounds like you think anyone who opposed the war is ipso facto indecent.','2003-05-30 08:58:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3080,1,3553,'68.5.110.43','Kevin Drum','calpundit@cox.net','http://www.calpundit.com','Dean: it kinda strikes me that the right has just as much cynicism and contempt towards American culture as the left. They just have it towards different aspects of our culture.\r\n\r\nIf you guys are trying to conflate liberals with the small group of extreme lefties in America, you\'re really barking up the wrong tree. Unless, of course, it\'s OK for me to assume that everyone on the right is represented by Joe McCarthy and Jerry Falwell.\r\n\r\nMaybe you\'ve noticed that I\'m *really, really* tired of this idiotic trope about how the left hates America. It\'s simply untrue, and you guys should quit pretending that anyone who favors a more moderate use of American power hates their country. It\'s contemptible.','2003-05-30 09:05:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3081,1,3510,'12.236.106.110','roublen vesseau','roublen@yahoo.com','http://hardheads.blogspot.com/','I found this post viscerally angering, but when you find yourself angry over something as harmless as political kibbitzing, it\'s almost always better to bite your tongue, so that\'s what I\'m going to do.\r\n\r\nFWIW, my take is that the Democrats have a somewhat better chance on winning in 2004 than 2008. My reasoning is that in 2004 they will be running against George W Bush, with a mediocre record, while in 2008 they will be running against someone like Bill Frist or John Kasich, both of whom are much stronger, more appealing candidates than President Bush.\r\n\r\nThere have been three successes of this administration:\r\n\r\n1) Military victory against the Taliban\r\n2) Military victory against Saddam\'s regime\r\n3) After 9/11, there has not been a mass-casualty terrorist attack on American soil\r\n\r\nI think it\'s fair to say on everything else, the Bush administration has made an absolute pigs\' breakfast: the record ranges from mediocre to indifferent to downright awful.\r\n\r\nLet\'s keep it simple: the Democrats will win if they convince a majority of Americans that either the voter personally, or the country as a whole, will do better if the Democrat gets elected. I\'ll just state categorically that given this Administration\'s record, there is plenty of room to make that case. \r\n\r\nOf the all-important war on terror, there are three aspects to it:\r\n\r\n1) preventing terrorist attacks from happening \r\n2) bringing the perpetrators to justice and avenging our dead\r\n3)reforming the dysfunctional societies which produce these terrorists, and even worse, large swaths of the population who sympathise with terrorists\r\n\r\nand a conservative would add a fourth:\r\n4) Restoring the American Aura, so that America & Americans, even if they are resented, are feared and respected throughout the world.\r\n\r\nThis may evoke howls of outrage from the Right, but as a Democrat I\'m quite sure that it is possible for a Democratic administration to do as well or better at the first three of these tasks, and to make that case to the American people. The fourth one is the the real ideological dispute, between those who are obsessed with America being feared, even at the cost of resentment, and those who are obsessed with America being liked, even at the cost of contempt. You can go too far in either direction.\r\n\r\nLastly, on a demographic/sociological note, I would say that if the Democrats are to win, they need to increase their share of the white vote, and in particular white men. I would say that either the parties get close to parity in the white vote, and the Democrat\'s advantage in the minority vote makes them the majority party, or the Republicans increase their percentage of the white vote, and they become the majority party, and our politics becomes the politics of the South writ large on a National scale.\r\n\r\nIn terms of issue-terrain, I am optimistic and feel the advantage lies with the Democrats. In terms of demographics/tribal factors, I am pessimistic and feel the advantage lies with the Republicans. We\'ll see how it plays out.\r\n ','2003-05-30 09:09:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3082,1,3554,'12.236.106.110','roublen vesseau','roublen@yahoo.com','http://hardheads.blogspot.com/','Very good post. A point I think is important is that even people who are violently opposed to redistributing income in principle actually support it in practice. For example if the entire public education system was scrapped and replaced with school vouchers, something conservatives presumably would support, it would be clear that the function of such vouchers would be nothing more and nothing less than the coercive redistribution of income from one group of citizens to another group, in order to achieve societal goals decided by the government to be in the public interest. \r\n\r\nLet\'s see if the teacher\'s unions try that one out for their next anti-vouchers ad. \r\n\r\n','2003-05-30 09:20:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3083,1,3552,'68.161.116.75','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','\"Unlike the latter, you can, at least in theory, do something about the former.\"\r\n\r\nI don\'t understand why Jonathan keeps reiterating that we can\'t do anything about the crimes of other countries. We have, over and over. Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia and its satellites (to the extent that Reagan\'s policies accelerated their downfall), the Balkans, Iraq come to mind. Have we had mixed motives? Sure? Did our intervention save lives? Absolutely. Are all those areas better off today than when they were under the grip of tyranny? No question.\r\n\r\nDoes Jonathan think groups like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty Intl. should just fold up because they advocate for people in countries other than those of their subscribers? Would Jonathan\'s argument also apply to the UN? \r\n\r\nWhy does Jonathan think that holding our own country accountable to its principles and challenging tyrannies in other places are mutually exclusive? All the progressives I know try to do both, and understand their interconnectedness.\r\n\r\n\"start coming up with ways to hold the US accountable for its genocide in Vietnam\"\r\n\r\nWhat genocide in Vietnam? Links, please. Or did you mean Cambodia? Wouldn\'t that genocide by Pol Pot qualify as one of the crimes we shouldn\'t stick our noses into (don\'t worry - we didn\'t)?','2003-05-30 09:24:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3084,1,3541,'68.161.116.75','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Thanks, Joe. I\'ve been a proud intellectual dilettante my whole life. :-)\r\n\r\nNow if i could just figure out a way to make a living at it .....','2003-05-30 10:55:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3085,1,3541,'68.161.116.75','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','I forgot to mention Jane Jacobs. She\'s the theory - Christopher Alexander is the practice.\r\n\r\nJoe, did you ever read Art Klein\'s The Age of Heretics? That reminds me that a lot of my worldview comes from a 20 year subscription to Whole Earth Review, way back to when it was Co-Evolution Quarterly. It\'s really declined in the last few years - turned into a run of the mill environmentalist mag. A shame. \r\n\r\nI am very clear that Stewart Brand is one of the most influential people of the 20th century. Hippies, environmentalists, international corporations, cybergeeks . . . the guy has touched everyone who\'s mattered for the past 35 years.','2003-05-30 11:18:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3086,1,3547,'169.207.138.43','triticale','triticale@hotmail.com','','One recent report suggests that it was Pfc Lynch\'s roommate, killed in the ambush, who actually \"battled fiercely.\" Apparently she was in the cab of the truck and Lynch was in the back. Sigint that a female had returned fire could easily have gotten linked to Lynch\'s name in the excitement over her rescue.','2003-05-30 13:09:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3087,1,3554,'169.207.138.43','triticale','triticale@hotmail.com','','And the current government school monopoly isn\'t forcible redistribution? Vouchers would eliminate a concentration of power while keeping the existing redistribution in place. The societal goals currently being imposed are as much those of the NEA (part owners of the Democratic Party) as those of the government, but that doesn\'t make vouchers any less a means of increasing freedom.','2003-05-30 13:31:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3088,1,3534,'81.49.115.6','the dissident frogman','thedissidentfrogman@hotmail.com','http://www.thedissidentfrogman.com/','I\'ve been posting this comment on the post linking to the Amazon review for the books at Blogcritics but I think it\'s worth repeating here, particularly since you\'ve just put up two excellent post dealing with the Communist concentration system and oppressive apparatus:\r\n\r\n\"I\'m sure it\'s not a deliberate negligence on your side, but - widening the scope from the Soviet Gulag to the Chinese Laogai and beyond - I think this list would be more complete with the rather comprehensive work of Stephane Courtois, Nicolas Werth, Jean-Louis Panne, Andrzej Paczkowski, Karel Bartosek and Jean-Louis Margolin, \"Le Livre Noir du Communisme : crimes, terreur, répression\", translated to English by Mark Kramer and Jonathan Murphy as *\"The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression\"*.\r\n\r\nFrom October 1917 to Ethiopia 1990, via Afghanistan and Nicaragua, this is a careful record that may come as a shock but is indeed a must read for anybody serious about fighting one of the most criminal utopia and its modern extensions, including the most unexpected (really?) ones -- I\'d love to know, for instance, what were the Palestinians doing alongside the Cubans, the East Germans and the Bulgarians, deporting populations for the Sandinistas in Nicaragua between 1982 and 1987 -- This book is definitely one of my bedtime/all time readings.\"\r\n','2003-05-30 14:04:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3089,1,3510,'208.8.57.2','glen','goojopa@yahoo.com','','Roublen,\r\n\r\nI really don\'t mean this as an attack on you, but you said, you were \"quite sure that it is possible for a Democratic administration to do as well or better at the first three of these tasks\". The tasks you refer to were:\r\n\r\n1) preventing terrorist attacks from happening \r\n2) bringing the perpetrators to justice and avenging our dead\r\n3)reforming the dysfunctional societies which produce these terrorists, and even worse, large swaths of the population who sympathise with terrorists\r\n\r\nHow can the Democrats do this? I\'m trying not to bring up the horrendous failures of the clinton administration in this very arena, but it\'s hard to ignore that aspect of this subject. Clinton failed miserably, and it seems that he and most Dems consider the military as just another group of social workers. Clinton had a chance to get bin Laden and passed on it (although he did take out a tent with a \"Osame slept here\" sign on it). There have been less terrorist attacks in the last year than in any year since at least 1981 (see http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/pgtrpt/2002/html/19997.htm for chart)\r\n\r\nSo I\'m really curious if you have some new ideas that the Dems could try or if you just feel that clinton was an aberration as President (I don\'t mean it that way... really) in the defense arena (don\'t forget carter either)or what?\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-30 14:07:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3090,1,3553,'66.59.138.198','Jim','jimmylevendia@hotmail.com','','(Some of) the Left may not hate America, Kevin, but it does sometimes have a rather parochial attitude towards some important issues.(This is the impression I get from Joe\'s article)Criticizing the actions of the government isn\'t wrong...if it is done in good will. Unfortunately, many people (not all of them on the Right) are becoming less convinced that this is the case. The relationship between liberals and conservatives should be similar to a good cop/bad cop routine...different means to the same ends: the security, prosperity, and freedom of the country. The perception is that the Left has rather different ends in mind.\r\nKevin, I hope you understand that this is meant as honest criticism, not as a partisan shot.','2003-05-30 14:07:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3091,1,3553,'68.50.63.200','Clio','kmkobor@hotmail.com','','Kevin,\r\n\r\nI hope you don\'t mind if I enter the fray. I agree with your comment that the right in this country also has contempt for wide swathes of American culture and society--they are just different swathes than those despised by the left.\r\n\r\nBut attributing this problem to political tribalism doesn\'t get us very far. That\'s because your logic overlooks the reasons lefty critiques of \"Amerika\" are more damaging to that side than are righty critiques. Partly, it\'s because lefty criticism takes as its mantra that American ideals have NEVER been realized: first there was slavery and sexism, then union-bashing and civil rights abuses, then things seemed to be getting better but Reagan zapped everyone\'s brains and we lurched into conservative hell. The right can always hold up bits and pieces of American history as the golden age to which we must return, but the left has trashed everything except the evanescent \"Progressive Era\" and MLK Jr. \r\n\r\nMoreoever, while the right can cast its critical eye across the rest of the world and declare (not without justice) that not much else even comes close to the US in terms of prosperity and social justice, the left must keep its \"diversity is good\" blinders on at all times. So what if this means you cannot take a strong stand against maniacs like Saddam Hussein or Robert Mugabe? Mugabe must be given a pass because he led Zimbabwe out of its colonialist purgatory into the promised land of African rule. \r\n\r\nI could go on, but let\'s see if someone else wants to pick up the ball.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-30 14:22:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3092,1,3510,'208.20.220.69','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','I intend to use some of the ideas in Trent\'s post as jumping-off points for a Palace essay. Therefore, I\'ll confine myself to a single observation that, for me, delineates the most important characteristic of the political process:\r\n\r\nPolitical parties are devices by which ambitious men seek power: vote-maximizing machines. They have no ideology. They\'re incapable of adopting one for any reason other than pragmatic electoral advantage. Therefore, whatever a party espouses today, it will cheerfully betray tomorrow if the electoral indicators suggest that it should.\r\n\r\n\"Put not your trust in parties.\" -- Me.\r\n','2003-05-30 14:26:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3093,1,3510,'208.187.143.146','Charles Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','','It may be that the \"Scoop\" Democrats will have to walk out of the Democratic Convention and form a new party down the block rather than nominate someone who will drive the leftist nuts. That, of course, is what happened in the 1850\'s when the future Republicans left the Whigs over their (the Whigs) lack of seriousness on the question of slavery. When a political party refuses to confront the \"nation altering\" crisis it either dies (the Whigs) or is marginalize for one or two generations (the mid century Republicans). The current Democratic Party is obsessed with cutural issues. But during a \"nation altering\" crisis the nation always puts its survival on the front burner and cultural issues seem silly. These days the Democrats just seem silly and in need of adult supervision. Maybe the DLC simply needs to walk away. In the 1850\'s the Republicans succeeded after just two election cycles and then ran things for nearly 70 years. Is there a lesson there?','2003-05-30 14:48:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3094,1,3553,'80.126.15.21','InFilling','InFilling@nonexistent.com','','\"..if you\'re an American, it should be your responsibility to expose US crimes and conflicts of interest, not Nazi Germany\'s.\"\r\n\r\nResponsibility starts at home. The remark by Jonathan really hits the spot. If the Germans in Nazi Germany had had the moral fortitude to do something about Hitler the world would have been a much, much better place.\r\n\r\nInstead the people of Nazi Germany, like Stalinist Russia, and post-1945 USA, have taken it upon themselves to export \"revolution\", \"regime change\" and \"liberation\" to the citizens of the world.\r\n\r\nAnd each regime has its own home-grown apologists. Mugabe is a monster, but Zimbabwe does not have the world\'s most powerful army, or the world\'s most impressive nukes, or a penchant for invading other countries as regular as clockwork, nor has Zimbabwe killed as many people as the US has. But we have to go after Mugabe first instead. (Ironically enough Mugabe feels it necessary to point out the UK\'s colonial evils in almost every speech he makes. The mote in thy neighbor\'s eye ...)\r\n\r\nFace it, the US as a State is a hyperpower, it is a largely amoral hyperpower, and since the end of the second world war a hyperpower unparalleled in terms of invasions and occupations, and second only to Mao\'s China in terms of human lives taken. \r\n\r\nAnd we\'re supposed to get excited about Robert Mugabe.\r\n\r\nThis is the sort of drivel we get when people start worshipping the State. Drivel from people who do not even know what conservatism means, and expect that the innate moral superiority of whatever buffoon they choose to vote for, will reform the world in a wiser, more kindly, and humane way than all the Marxist, Statist, and Leftist buffoons who preceded him. ','2003-05-30 15:24:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3095,1,3547,'138.145.200.42','Bill Herbert','chocolate_salty_balz@yahoo.com','http://cointelprotool.blogspot.com','This is good analysis, but I take vehement exception to your first point, giving the advantage to Scheer. Although Vernon Loeb and Susan Schmidt apparently got their hands on some raw intel that they should not have had access to, there is no evidence whatsoever that the pentagon was trying to put this false story out there. The Loeb/Schmidt story did include a paragraph noting that official other than their anonymous source had warned against putting too much faith in that report, which was unconfirmed battlefield intel. \r\n\r\nAn Army doc at Landstuhl set the record straight on her injuries immediately thereafter, long before the Washington Post/Toronto Star/Telegraph stories on which the BBC documentary and Scheer\'s drivel were based. \r\n\r\nMoreover, Scheer makes the utterly baseless contention that the pentagon \"had to have known\" that the information was false when it was given to Loeb and Schmidt, and that they did nothing to challenge it. Both these allegations are preposterous.\r\n\r\nI don\'t think Alene was accusing YOU of blaming the Pentagon, but you gave the advantage to Scheer on this point, and he clearly did blame them.\r\n\r\nContrast this whole mess with the BS stories about looting in the Baghdad museum. When it turned out the initial claims of over 17,000 stolen artifacts had been wildly inflated (if that\'s not understating it too much), the media pretty much said \"oops, our bad.\" But no one is accusing them of anything more than sloppy reporting.\r\n\r\nWhy then, is the pentagon immediately accused of a deliberate disinformation campaign (\"one of the most stunning pieces of news management ever\") when their own statements have to be revised, however mildly?\r\n\r\nThere\'s a fundamental hypocrisy in the expectations of the military in these situations. Whenever a plane crashes, a sub collides with a fishing boat, or a sex scandal is uncovered at a service academy, the initial response from the military is to be very tightlipped, until all the facts are in, and then be very deliberate in its release of information. For this, they receive a steady stream of abuse, being accused of \"stonewalling\" and far worse.\r\n\r\nBut then, when some reporter gets his hands on info that hasn\'t been evaluated or confirmed, and decides to run with it despite warnings from the Pentagon Spin Machine, it\'s the military\'s fault???\r\n\r\nGive me a break.\r\n\r\nBTW, triticale: where did you read that info?','2003-05-30 15:27:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3096,1,3510,'80.126.15.21','InFilling','InFilling@nonexistent.com','','\" Clinton had a chance to get bin Laden and passed on it\"\r\n\r\nSo did Bush. Trashed Afghanistan, didn\'t find Osama. For that matter, where\'s Saddam?\r\n\r\nTruly we have had the misfortune to be ruled by a long succession of bumbling idiots.','2003-05-30 15:37:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3097,1,3553,'192.18.42.10','ruprecht','ruprechtschwarz@excite.co','http://www.ruprechtschwarz.com','InFilling, US history since 1949 looks pretty bad if you ignore the actions of the Soviet Union. If you include the Soviet Union into the equation your comments look dillusional. \r\n\r\nPut Chomsky down and read some Hitchens for a change.','2003-05-30 15:46:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3098,1,3553,'206.55.130.233','Taeyoung Jensen','madralthas@hotmail.com','','One reason it\'s reasonable, I think, for us to try and export our idea of common decency across the world is that *every* other political system tries to do the same, or would if it could. It\'s a prisoners\' dilemma. We could be nice, and live and let live, but socialists want to spread world socialism, communists world communism, fascists world fascism, and theocrats universal theocracy. That they don\'t do so, except on a teensy local scale, is because we\'re stopping them from doing so. Our power looks mighty and secure right now, but that\'s a passing, transitory thing. If we fold up, disengage from the world, crawl into our little shell, and concern ourselves only with what *we*\'re doing, we\'ll lose that preeminence, and some power hostile to our way of life will come to the fore.\r\n\r\nThe other thing is that it\'s not just American groups who spend all their time hyperventilating about American atrocities (or mild inconveniences). It\'s international groups, and foreign groups as well. They certainly don\'t restrict themselves to complaining about their own governments. Why must Americans alone do so?','2003-05-30 15:51:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3099,1,3553,'67.225.186.189','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','That \"we should focus on America\" line is an old Chomskyite canard, usually engaged in by folks that are uncritical of their ideological kindred; it\'s exposed by the fact that these people *will* engage in criticism of foreign countries, as long as they\'re opponents of Leftist ideology (and especially if those foreign countries are allied with America). They just are uninterested in the misbehavior of those who are on their side, ideologically.\r\n\r\n(So this canard is really misleading, considering that the \"Citizens of the World\" who use it often identify more with certain foreign countries than they do with AmeriKKKa, so they\'re not *REALLY* criticizing their own. They\'re just creating an excuse for a double-standard.)\r\n\r\nSo, for example, when the *REAL* \"Blood for Oil\" is on the hands of the Russian and French governments, for example, well, that\'s just uninteresting. . .\r\n\r\nGuys like InFilling demonstrate their complete lack of concern for moral categories when they start making the comparisons they do. What matters foremost is hatred for Western Civilization and especially America, with absurd claims about how uniquely muderous we are (and absolutely no ability to distinguish between behaviors). As with Chomsky, they are quick to make comparisons with Hitler and the NAZIs.\r\n\r\nThis, of course, is rubbish, but rubbish of a particular sort.\r\n\r\nKevin Drum may *really* *really* hate to see this discussed, but that\'s the usual reaction of someone who\'d rather see a certain problem ignored than dealt with and faced up to. It\'s not really arguable that there is a rather significant and vocal segment of the Left that is hostile to what this country is, that would like to see it transformed (at best) into something unlike what it is, and replaced with something else.\r\n\r\nProblem is, Kevin, I\'ve read far too much and seen far to much and heard far to much to accept the self-deluding falsehood that this doesn\'t exist or is (as some others claim) \"tiny\". It\'s not. Folks like you will have to stop pretending it is - because only folks like you will really be able to solve it, by doing more to confront your fellows who are like this (if the \"Decent Left\", to use Michael Walzer\'s phrase, spent half as much time confronting the indecent Left as they did asserting that they were sick of seeing conservatives bring this stuff up, then the problem would be half way to being solved).','2003-05-30 16:06:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3100,1,3553,'65.239.46.153','Bird Dog','birdnest@lwol.com','','Infilling,\r\nThe U.S. has killed more than Pol Pot? Stalin?\r\n\r\nAs for \'getting excited about Mugabe\', Zimbabweans say something publicly against their ruler, they get jailed or killed. You can say practically whatever you damn well please on U.S. soil. And we\'re amoral?\r\n\r\nAre suggesting moral equivalence between our democracy and the \'Marxist, Leninist and Leftist buffoons\', that they are not morally inferior?','2003-05-30 16:07:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3101,1,3553,'67.225.186.189','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','I\'m going to add one thing to my previous comment that ties it all together:\r\n\r\nKevin Drum\'s reaction shows that the idea that the Left is really about self-critique (and that is the reason they criticise our country) cannot be true. Self-reflection of this kind is one of the things that is notably lacking in broad swaths of the Left today; and Kevin\'s post is reflective of that.\r\n\r\n(Plus, Drum, your comment is rather contemptable - it sets up a straw-man \"you guys should quit pretending that anyone who favors a more moderate use of American power hates their country.\" - Joe isn\'t writing about \"anyone who favors a more moderate use\" of American power, it\'s contemptable for you to misrepresent his words or those of anyone else in such a way. Indeed, that\'s one of the things that makes it so frustrating to try and have a civil discussion with most people on the Left - their all-too-ready willingness to distort out of recognition what we write or say, and turn it into some kind of ad hominem).','2003-05-30 16:13:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3102,1,3554,'207.245.113.120','Undertoad','undertoad@cellar.org','http://cellar.org','And how to resolve the notion that, post welfare reform, the poor appear no worse off and actually seem to be getting richer? How to explain the studies showing pockets of middle class in the ghettos of the last few decades? How to explain why these pockets didn\'t appear until now?\r\n\r\nDoes redistribution actually support the rich and powerful by developing an \"entitlement society\", which by its very nature keeps the status quo?\r\n\r\nDoesn\'t any government system quickly become bureaucratic and wedded to the status quo?\r\n\r\nDoesn\'t any government agency *manage* problems, instead of *solving* them? (If they actually solve the problem they lose their budget and raison d\'etre.)\r\n\r\nThe best way to ensure a turnover of power is to argue for free markets to remain in place, with little bureaucracy to ensure its stability. Walmart may be powerful now, but in a free market the only thing we can count on is continual productive change. This ensures that, unless it performs spectacularly, in 2 generations Walmart will be where Kmart is today, and in 4 generations it will be where Woolworth\'s is today.\r\n','2003-05-30 16:26:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3103,1,3553,'12.15.133.9','James','james@iconics.com','','InFilling,\r\n\r\nThis is exactly the concepts the article was referring to. \r\n\r\nIn 1940\'s Germany it was obvious the citizens of Germany had no intention of stopping Hitler. That left two choices, outside intervention (regime change) or compliance. The attitude that US should have only been concerned with its own actions are what lead to the rampant expansion of Nazi Germany in the first place.\r\n\r\nSo you dont like Bush as President. I dont see bands of Republican hit squads roming the country killing Democrates, alla Mugabe style. Mugabe as also killed more pople in the last year than the US has in the last 10. This with the US just finishing a major war in Iraq. If you also include the starvation Mugabe is directly responsible for, the number of deaths could exceed 6 million. So ya, it is important.\r\n\r\nYes responsibility starts with your actions. Sometimes, fulfillment of your responsibilities requires an intervention in your neighbors actions.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-30 16:27:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3104,1,3552,'12.249.42.123','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','What genocide in Vietnam. Ha ha ha. Pol Pot wasn\'t the one who dropped more bombs on a peasant country than all of the bombs dropped in World War II combined. Pol Pot wasn\'t the one who left unexploded ordinance and dioxin in Vietnam which kills people to this day. Yehudt, I\'d let me support my arguments, instead of proving them for me. I say genocide in Vietnam and you offer the knee jerk Pol Pot... no he wasn\'t the only one who killed massive amounts of people in Cambodia, either. \r\n\r\nWhich brings me to my next point... I don\'t argue that exposing the US for their crimes and exposing other countries for theirs is mutually exclusive. Just do a little test, and look at the archives on winds of change.net. Tell me how many times you see Mr. Katzman post about the US involvement in supporting human rights violations, and tell me how many times he posts about the crimes of official enemies. Lunch on me for a month if the ratio is higher than one to twenty.\r\n\r\nYou\'re also right that we can do things about other countries crimes... we can convince the US to go to war with them. That\'s a great democratic option for the people of this country.\r\n','2003-05-30 16:30:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3105,1,3553,'68.5.110.43','Kevin Drum','calpundit@cox.net','http://www.calpundit.com','You guys claim that liberals hate American and then complain about the problems of having a civil discussion?\r\n\r\nWow.','2003-05-30 16:30:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3106,1,3553,'204.124.240.254','T. Hartin','zgolem@yahoo.com','','Both the left and the right in the US have their extremists and their nutballs, granted. However, the right has done a much better job over the last 15 years or so of rejecting and marginalizing theirs, while the left has done far too little of this.\r\n\r\nExamples abound on the right, but Pat Buchanan is probably the best. He was well connected, highly visible, appealed to a not insignificant subset of the Republican Party, but when he went off the rails into nativism, he was read out of the Party without a backward glance.\r\n\r\nOn the left, however, the old \"no enemies on the left\" credo still seems to have hold. When the left gladly makes use of Stalinist organizations like ANSWER, with little if any vocal repudiation of their ideals, then it should not be shocked if people begin to regard it as anti-American. Further, many of the left\'s spokespeople never have anything positive to say about \"Amerikka,\" and these same spokespeople are not repudiated by Democrats or liberals, so Dems or liberals should not be shocked if the hard left\'s views are attributed to them.\r\n\r\nThe liberals and the Dems must purge the loonies from their ranks, or the loonies will become the face, if not the substance, of liberalism. Until this happens, it is not unreasonable to expect those outside of the movement to be extremely skeptical of those who are apparently willing to consort with blatantly anti-American organizations and individuals for political advantage.','2003-05-30 16:34:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3107,1,3553,'24.60.161.253','Mike Siegel','dont@spam.me','','Mass murder and genocides are always atrocities, no matter who commits them. Actions should be taken to prevent these atrocities.\r\n\r\nHowever, I don\'t think expecting \'more\' from the US implies a hatred of America. There was recently a story about the imprisonment of some Chinese students for holding political talks. This is outrageous. But if it had happened in the US, people would go berzerk. It would be on the front of every news paper. \r\n\r\nFrom the Right\'s perspective, which would they consider more offensive: a total ban on hand guns at home, or the fact such laws already exist in many countries?\r\n\r\nI don\'t hate America. I think that foreign dictators should be help responsible for violations of human rights. I do expect better behavior from the US government than foreign regimes, I think everyone does. Isn\'t this the land of the free? Shouldn\'t we strive for a high moral standard?\r\n\r\n-Mike Siegel','2003-05-30 16:37:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3108,1,3554,'195.12.141.174','Tom Grey','GreyT@ca-ib.com','','Redistribution; yes, but limited. Old Welfare failed because it didn\'t encourage enough behavior change in the able but lazy/ irresponsible.\r\n\r\nBetter alternative: National service corps. Guaranteed job for all US citizen residents, 90% pay of an enlisted person, 6 month-minimum enlistment -- with UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice), or some other more restrictive code of behavior. Voluntary -- but phase out all other gov\'t support programs.\r\n\r\nCorporations ARE a problem, with too much political influence -- but mostly because the politicians have too much power.\r\nA) add a minimum corp tax of 1% of Total Revenue (not profit). Corps \"losing money\" still pay 1%. Lot\'s of tax dodges look less attractive.\r\nB) MORE direct democracy in FUNDING gov\'t.\r\nEvery IRS 1040 (long; mid) form should include a one page list of the largest 50 line items in the prior year\'s budget, and the amount given.\r\nEvery voter gets 100% to vote/allocate; eg 2% for all, or 4 x 25%, or any percentage to any line items. Total less than or equal to 100% is accepted. More than 100% is normalized to 100%.\r\n\r\nThen congress will have LESS money/ power to play around with, directly -- PLUS the yearly tax vote %s can be increasingly reflected in other budgetary battles.','2003-05-30 16:48:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3109,1,3510,'165.201.76.84','Dakota Loomis','bix010@yahoo.com','','Everyone should examine the report Glen has posted. \r\n\r\nApparently, the Bush regime is doing a great job of rooting out terrorism in... Latin America and Africa?????\r\n\r\nThe reason for such a drastic drop in terrorist attacks has more to do with the drop in Latin American industrial oil line bombings than a strong stance by the Bush administration. Just look at the type of institutions that have been bombed and notice the MASSIVE drop in business bombings. \r\n\r\nAnd if we want to do a bullshit statistical analysis, how about the number of American deaths under Bush and under Clinton. Looks like Bush is getting his ass handed to him 1,466 (in two years) to 47 over Clinton\'s second term. \r\n\r\nBush has done nothing to stop terrorism other than place American soldiers in harms way and create a Department of Homeland Security more interested in gerrymandering Texas congressional districts and curtailing Americans civil liberties than protecting American citizens. \r\n\r\nI just don\'t see how Bush has been great for American security other than to increase our paranoia and manipulate said fear to his own political gain. \r\n\r\nFinally, somebody give me a reason to think that Clinton has a horrible record on terrorism? Just some facts or something besides Democrats and Clinton in particular hate America and would rather see France succeed than our own God damn country. With the exception of white boy McVeigh and the first World Trade Center bombing, what were the events that threatened American security or took American lives? Where did Clinton screw up so royally? (I\'m open, incredibly open to evidence about this because Clinton screwed up a number of things during his 8 years. I just don\'t remember terrorism being one of them)','2003-05-30 16:52:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3110,1,3553,'130.126.54.53','Bruce','ceremony@net66.com','','Mike Siegel says:\r\n\r\n\"However, I don\'t think expecting \'more\' from the US implies a hatred of America. There was recently a story about the imprisonment of some Chinese students for holding political talks. This is outrageous. But if it had happened in the US, people would go berzerk. It would be on the front of every news paper.\"\r\n\r\nExactly. But this is exactly the point that the Left fails to acknowledge, at least in the sense that it shows the preferability (I\'ll even say \"superiority\") of the US system. If you expect more of the US, isn\'t that because the US is, in fact, better than Communist China? But the Left wants it both ways - it wants to criticize the US without acknowledging that in most other countries the situation is far worse. In fact, those countries happen to have political and economic systems favored by the Left. Defending or ignoring Chinese human rights abuses while criticizing far less egregious problems in the US (all the while making ludicrous comparisons of Bush to Hitler) seems like prima facie evidence of \"America-hating\" to me.','2003-05-30 17:04:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3111,1,3534,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','What he said. I focused in on one aspect of human evil in those systems today, but there is of course much more and Dissident Frogman gives you the all-time best book on that subject.\r\n\r\nI also used Admin. powers and fixed DF\'s link. Should work now.','2003-05-30 17:10:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3112,1,3554,'208.139.7.64','Tongue Boy','robbin_smith@corvel.com','','The real potential problem is with \"artificial\" aristocracy; that is, an aristocracy which gains and maintains power in society without producing concomittant (sp) value for that society. Those aristocracies are, for the most part, overturned or modified over time through some combination of revolt, forced internal reform, or force external reform (the neighbors are fed up). The mistake many liberals make is to equate \"artificial\" aristocracy with the \"meritocracy\" that naturally arises in free societies with open markets and societal mobility. You make a useful distinction between offensive and defensive redistribution but I\'m not sure that even defensive redistribution contributes much to the general welfare, except in very rare, and therefore atypical, instances. Anti-trust law seems like a pretty good example of defensive redistribution but it\'s application rarely makes much sense and it is subject, like all things where the government is involved, to political manipulation.\r\n\r\nAnother problem with redistribution is that it absolves individuals from any moral responsibility for the conditions in which other individuals live. \"Aww, let the government do it. They bite off enough of my paycheck anyway.\" Increased government involvement in ameliorating societal conditions deemed wrong or substandard serves to blunt the moral sensibilities of the individuals composing that society. That\'s not to say that government should do absolutely nothing, as a libertarian might argue, but it must be very careful and any actions should be taken by the appropriate governmental unit to keep the process at the most local level (syntax) that is feasible.','2003-05-30 17:15:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3113,1,3510,'216.68.253.1','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com/','\"requiring patience and sacrifice - something I haven;t seen in long supply from the GOP leadership.\"\r\n\r\nI haven\'t seen it in the Democrat leadership, either. ','2003-05-30 17:24:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3114,1,3532,'170.148.92.44','Nichevo','noah@brainlink.com','','Pray tell, how well armored is JSF? How is ANYTHING supposed to do CAS without the titanium bathtub, etc? Or are you going to pray it won\'t get hit? ','2003-05-30 17:27:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3115,1,3553,'66.25.184.85','eateneye','eateneye@hotmail.com','','\"The liberals and the Dems must purge the loonies from their ranks, or the loonies will become the face, if not the substance, of liberalism.\"\r\n\r\nYeah, otherwise they\'ll end up like the religious right and the Republican Party. We all know how people turned away from them in droves as soon as the lunatics took over. ;)\r\n','2003-05-30 17:27:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3116,1,3544,'66.238.122.118','Terry','terry@surfnetusa.com','','Just goes to show that the Army should be allowed to run its own close air support and design and operate an updated follow-on version of the A-10. Right. Like that\'ll happen.','2003-05-30 17:43:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3117,1,3553,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','As always, a sharp, smart comments section. I\'m going to focus on Kevin, since the other stuff has been dealt with.\r\n\r\nKD: \"Are you suggesting that we should stop criticizing our own government and our own actions? Or only that we should criticize anyone who betrays our ideals?\"\r\n\r\nPretty clearly #2, and shown so by example. I\'ll tighten it a bit to make that even clearer. Amidst InFilling\'s inspired effort to prove my points by example, one good point is made: \"Responsibility starts at home.\"\r\n\r\nIt just doesn\'t end there.\r\n\r\nKD: \"you guys should quit pretending that anyone who favors a more moderate use of American power hates their country. It\'s contemptible.\"\r\n\r\nYou\'re reading something into this article that just isn\'t there.\r\n\r\nKD: \"Dean: it kinda strikes me that the right has just as much cynicism and contempt towards American culture as the left. They just have it towards different aspects of our culture.\"\r\n\r\nThere\'s some truth to that. Conservatism always has the temptataion to fall into the Euro-conservative tendency of \"it\'s all going to hell, there\'s nothing worth saving, best just enjoy the inevitable decline (or worse, join a militia).\" When it does - and this has happened before - it too tends to cut itself off from the mainstream body politic and become much less effective. For the same reasons Walzer describes for the Left.\r\n\r\nSee - it isn\'t so hard to face stuff like that.\r\n\r\nFortunately, the post-9/11 national reaction surprised and quieted many of these conseratives outside of Buchanan\'s circle. That would still make an interesting and valuable article... but it won\'t help the Left deal with its own, real, problem.\r\n\r\nKD: \"You guys claim that liberals hate American and then complain about the problems of having a civil discussion?\"\r\n\r\nYou\'re evading a clear argument: that a very specific meme, one I\'ve heard way beyond the far left (in your blog\'s comments section, in fact, was the first place I saw it and had the light go on), inelecutably leads toward a position that can only become excited about evil in America, while giving others a clear pass. That this meme is highly corrosive in numerous ways, and hurts both liberals\' political standing and the body politic of which they are a part. That removal of this meme and sharp, sustained criticism of it from within could do much to restore liberal fortunes and shore up their philosophy\'s foundation in America.\r\n\r\nCompare that argument to your characterization (and Yglesias\' equally energetic evasion on his blog), and yes, we do have an issue with civil discussion between reasonable people.\r\n\r\nAs has been pointed out here by others, some liberals clearly DO hate America. It\'s so bad that even people on the Left are pointing it out, it\'s damaging the liberal side badly (note poll gaps of 20-30%+ on national security issues), and as I\'ve shown here there is a particlar meme that\'s responsible for a good deal of the problem.\r\n\r\nWhether you like it or hate the discussion is irrelevant. As long as this meme continues to operate in wide swathes of the lib-left coalition, the logical consequences apply (ask yourself: \"Why do they hate us? Distrust/accuse us so often that I\'m tired of it? Could we have done something to provoke them or foster these perceptions?\"). The Right may have an albatross meme or 2 of their own, and if you want to write about that, great. That would be a big help to them. Doesn\'t solve your side\'s problem, though, does it?','2003-05-30 17:47:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3118,1,3534,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','And by the way, note where this book was written and published. That\'s right, France. \r\n\r\nThe country may be a bit if a write-off these days, but that shouldn\'t blind us to the fact that it also has a cadre of intellectuals like these fellows, Jean-Francoise Revel, Levy, and others. They are stars in the firmament of Western Civilization, and some of the best people its defenders could hope to fight alongside. They deserve wider recognition.','2003-05-30 17:55:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3119,1,3553,'24.77.20.70','murray','seaview35@hotmail.com','','Mike S.\r\n\r\nI think it\'s entirely reasonable to expect more of liberal democracies than despotisms. And Kevin, no one (here) is saying that we should stop criticizing the actions of our governments.\r\n\r\nWhat befuddles the conservative/libertarian hawks, I think, is the single-entry bookkeeping practiced by many on the Left, whose rhetoric implies that America is the only actor on the world stage. No one else seems to have the capacity for independent action -- if someone does something terrible, it can usually be construed to be America\'s fault, somehow.\r\n\r\nThus, in the Cold War, the bellicosity of the USSR and other members of the ComIntern were simply defensive reactions to American aggression. The atrocities and abuses committed by Fidel Castro\'s government, to the present day, can be laid at the feet of the American embargo, or somesuch. The North Koreans wouldn\'t be attempting to get nuclear weapons if we hadn\'t posed an existential threat to their government. The atrocities of the Khmer Rouge were a direct result of US policy in Southeast Asia. Because the US once gave tacit and some material support to Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran, America is reponsible for the abuses he committed thereafter. For that matter, the rise of Khomeini was due to US support for the Shah. US support of Afghan resistance against the Soviet invasion was the major factor in the rise of the Taliban. The squalor and despair in the Palestinian Authority is a direct result of America\'s support for Israel. The WTC attacks were initially held by some to be a reaction to America\'s opting out of Kyoto and/or refusal to sit still and be harangued at the Durban conference on whatever-it-was. Or to US-led globalization. And it goes on. Virtually anything bad done by anyone anywhere can be laid at the feet of the US.\r\n\r\nSee, not only do conservatives and libertarians think it\'s ludicrous to compare the world\'s leading democracy unfavourably with retrograde despotisms, we also believe that people are responsible for the choices they make. That\'s why the vision held by so many Leftists -- a world in which individuals and governments are mere automatons, forced into murder, war, and terrorism by American provocation -- is so deeply strange to us. Pol Pot CHOSE to embark upon a campaign of mass murder. Stalin CHOSE to do ... well, all the things he did. Fidel Castro CHOSE to suppress free speech, imprison dissidents, and impoverish his country. Khomeini CHOSE to establish a bloodthirsty theocracy in Iran. And Saddam Hussein CHOSE to invade neighbouring countries, use chemical weapons on internal opposition, and turn his own country into a charnel-house.\r\n\r\nAnd no, I\'m not arguing that America is entirely blameless, or that some American actions haven\'t had terrible consequences. And yes, Augusto Pinochet CHOSE to commit the abuses he did, with tacit American support. But I believe that America has also been, on balance, a great positive presence in the world. If more people on the Left recognized the good America does in the world as well as the bad, we wouldn\'t have to have these discussions.','2003-05-30 18:04:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3120,1,3553,'67.225.186.189','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://porphyrogenitus.net','Kevin Drum distortively wrote:\r\n\r\n\"You guys claim that liberals hate American and then complain about the problems of having a civil discussion?\"\r\n\r\nOnce again, you demonstrate your compleat inability to take an argument on its face, and instead substitute this straw man; I for one never said \"Liberals\" (all Liberals) hate America. But it\'s obvious that quite a few Leftists do - more than a tolken number, more than an insignificant amount of Leftists do. Indeed, I for one never mentioned \"Liberal\" at all in this context, nor did I even say \"all Liberals\", nor did Joe (who approvingly referenced the remarks of Dissent editor and Leftist Michael Walzer).\r\n\r\nBut to avoid grappling with that, you continue to absolutely distort what is written and said, and you\'re the good person in your own mind for doing so, I\'m sure.\r\n\r\nIts bovine fecal matter and, indeed, I\'d say you\'re an example of \"Bad Philosophy\" at work; this is the romanticized view of things (Kevin Drum defends the Left from sweeping generalizations, incorrect ones, launched by the Evil Right Wing on innocents) that you have to fit everything into in order for your world-view to be sustained.\r\n\r\nFact is, what went on the last year plus, was not a situation where Conservatives harassed anyone who \"favored a more moderate use of American power\" - quite the contrary, and either you\'re ignorant, or you\'re pretending not to know it out of some sort of animus or need, so as to preserve your ideological illusions.\r\n\r\nIn this very thread, though, there are examples of folks comparing the U.S. to fascism or Maoist murder, who are clearly uninterested in \"a more moderate use\" of American power, but simply hostile to America as such. So one had and has people who are effectively the propaganda arm of world fascism (which I always thought the Left opposed) by directing all sorts of misrepresentations and falaciously invidious accusations at free market democracies, such as America.\r\n\r\nYour position is akin to those anti-anti-Communists, who were opposed confronting those dictatorships and their many admirers, and in your efforts you (apparently) will find no distortion of your opponents (mine, or Joes, for example) too unacceptable to commit.','2003-05-30 18:07:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3121,1,3553,'216.68.253.1','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com/','Joe:\r\n\r\n\"Fortunately, the post-9/11 national reaction surprised and quieted many of these conseratives outside of Buchanan\'s circle.\"\r\n\r\nI\'m not sure what you mean by this. \"Buchanan\'s circle\" has been very much aligned with the anti-war left, and he\'s been very vocal in attacking the \"neo conservative warmongerers and imperialists\".\r\n\r\nDid you mean \"inside\" instead of \"outside\"?\r\n\r\n','2003-05-30 18:07:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3122,1,3554,'65.164.207.251','WildMonk','wildmonk@wildmonk.net','http://wildmonk.net','AL,\r\n\r\nYou make some good points but I think that you really have not taken the primary conservative argument - that redistributionist policies can easily devolve into tyranny - head on. Now, there *are* some weakness in the argument but there is a grain of truth as well.\r\n\r\nThere is an obvious allure to the idea that government power be used to guide income flows so they are more \"fair\" or so they otherwise meet social goals. But the allure rests on a certain degree of abstraction from the truth of markets and of the means by which wealth is produced. When an individual or team guides a company through the challenges necessary to create genuine wealth, there is almost always a great deal of hard work, risk, and discipline required. That is, it requires a certain degree of personal virtue - as it is typically understood in Western culture - to be able to *create* wealth (note that I do not argue that such virtue is required to defraud). \r\n\r\nThe bureaucrat or legislator - who is unlikely to be familiar with the mechanics of wealth production - will scarcely acknowledge such virtues and will certainly find them too abstract to guide action. Indeed, from the lofty position of the legislator seeking the \"social good,\" any attempt to point out the work and discipline involved in creating wealth will appear selfish or even reactionary. \r\n\r\nHistorically speaking, the vast majority of cultures occupying human history have demonstrated an outright hostility for those who would, by dint of their commercial efforts, place themselves above their fellows. Power has almost always been gained, held, and lost in battle and political intrigue - not in commerce and wealth creation. Throughout most of history, commercial enterprises have seldom grown larger than what a single family could manage (for more on Warrior vs. Commercial cultures, see Jane Jacobs\' brilliant \"Systems of Survival\"). \r\n\r\nSubcultures and racial groups that have historically been most adept at commercial success (the Jews in Europe, the Ibo in Nigeria, and Han Chinese throughout Southest Asia) have been subject to some of the most brutal repression in history (See Sowell\'s Race and Culture).\r\n\r\nAs Steven Pinker points out in his recent book \"The Blank Slate,\" the cognitive foundations for a capitalist understanding of economic activity seem to be largely missing from the human brain. It is only through the somewhat tortuous application of logic (rather than gut-level common sense) that we see the benefit of free commerce between independent, powerful organizations (small-scale barter, on the other hand, seems quite natural to us).\r\n\r\nIt is only with the rise of Mercantilism and, later, Capitalism, that explicit efforts to encourage *private* wealth creation have flourished. This is a radical idea and one that by no means has gone unopposed. Within our own society this continuing opposition manifests itself in screaming headlines every time a business entity is found to have stuffed the channels to inflate its profits or an executive is found to have purchased gold-plated geegaws with company money. *Of course you can\'t trust these people,* we reason implicitly, they are *businessmen.* They are out to scrape the money out of the pockets of the poor!\r\n\r\nSuch zero-sum thinking is very human, very natural and dead wrong from a macro-social perspective. The problem for an explicitly redistributionist policy is that any government implementing such a policy - and the electorate that benefits from such policies - are almost guaranteed to fall prey to such biases. Perhaps the most flagrently tyrannical examples of this very human impulse were China\'s \"Great Leap Forward\" and the Soviet Union\'s collectivization of agriculture.\r\n\r\nTo counteract these forces and protect their own interests, businesses put together powerful mechanisms for self-defense (lobbyists, Chambers of Commerce, political contributions, etc.) Of course, human nature will not be denied: many people find the very existance of these political lobbying groups as evidence of a horrendous problem. Are they not simply a means for the rich and powerful to \"buy off\" the government of the people? \r\n\r\nAs a conservative, I would argue that a free, democratic society cannot afford to demonize the acquisition of private wealth. Indeed, business *must* argue its case before government because \"the people\" - understood as those who do not have the appetite for creating wealth on their own - would surely tear apart the collected private wealth of society in an orgy of envious retribution if there were not a counterbalance against them...just as they have repeatedly and predictably throughout the history of humankind.\r\n\r\nTo return more directly to your point: we should indeed remain on guard against efforts to turn wealth directly into political power. However, it is a mistake to assume that an unequal distribution of private wealth is, per se, evidence of a social problem. In particular, I would point out that your quote of Jefferson\'s to Mann Page should be taken at full value: the issue for Jefferson is not the acquisition of wealth per se but the use of the tools of state to maintain this position artificially. This is a negative cause - an insistence that we prevent the government from colluding with such attempts. It is a far cry for arguing the positive case that government must be in the business of standing astride the flow of commerce in our society and divvying up the results.\r\n\r\nThe wealthy business interests among us do not oppose social spending per se and the vast majority do indeed see the virtue in programs such as Social Security and Medicaid. However, we also see what happens when such programs run amok (such as has happened in New York State). We explicitly do not believe that such programs are a panacea for the poor and have little tolerance for those who would take the fruits of our labor while simultaneously slapping us down for having the temerity to generate such wealth to begin with.\r\n\r\nBest regards,\r\n\r\nWild Monk','2003-05-30 18:09:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3123,1,3553,'62.31.92.147','Martin Knight','mohknightremove@hotmail.com','','This thing about the \'Religious Right\' really gets to me. Whenever I challenge a Lefty who sounds that buzz-phrase to \'show\' that the GOP is full of extremists, the answer is usually \"Jerry Falwell!!\" as if that explains everything - sort of reminds me of the \"Enron!!\" episode. Exactly what is lunatic about the \'Religious Right\'?\r\n\r\nWhat laws have the \'Religious Right\' tried to have passed since they became a fully fledged in the GOP? The Legalization of Anti-Gay Discrimination Act? The Women Belong In The Home Act? The Banning of Divorce Act? Have they actually tried to ban the existence of all other religions in the United States?\r\n\r\nSo exactly what is lunatic/extreme/just plain wrong about the \'Religious Right\'? ','2003-05-30 18:12:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3124,1,3552,'216.250.88.165','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','\"Does Jonathan think groups like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty Intl. should just fold up because they advocate for people in countries other than those of their subscribers? Would Jonathan\'s argument also apply to the UN? \"\r\n\r\nNo it doesn\'t apply to the UN. The UN is an international organization where member states agree to submit to its laws. \r\n\r\nMy argument doesn\'t really apply to international watchdog groups... they can still operate if their purpose is to expose crimes where they see them, free from ideological pressure to be dishonest. When either group becomes nothing but an arm of the US to demonize its official enemies meanwhile refusing to be honest to Americans about crimes of The US, US clients or allies -- which they can easily have some influence over -- for ideological purposes, then yes. They, like many net intellectuals, should fold up because they\'d have become morally bankrupt.','2003-05-30 18:18:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3125,1,3554,'130.127.14.72','Bill','Bill@rationalexplications.com','','Jefferson\'s description of the \"artificial aristocracy founded on wealth and birth, without either virtue or talents\" made me think instantly of the Kennedy clan, a collection of mediocrities who trade on nothing but the presumption that the accident of birth has qualified them for public office. You, undoubtedly, are more likely to think of GWB. Perhaps we can both agree on \"Pinch\" Sulzberger.\r\n\r\nThe serious point is that an intrusive government--and that is inevitably what a redistributive state will be--offers as many if not more opportunities for the perpetuation of artificial aristocracy as does a market economy.\r\n','2003-05-30 18:22:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3126,1,3554,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Triticale: \"And the current government school monopoly isn\'t forcible redistribution?\"\r\n\r\nIt isn\'t, at least not in the way AL means. If you mean \"redistribution from poor people to teachers\' unions,\" what you\'re really talking about here is not redistribution per se but privilege in its classic political sense. The teachers as medieval guild, if you will.\r\n\r\nI\'d say AL is broadly right about redistribution being connected to legitimacy, and there are precedents for societies (incl. Sparta) that have been destroyed by a creeping concentration of power and wealth that eventually do create something like an entrenched aristocracy and sap their vitality. America isn\'t there yet, but AL isn\'t crazy to be concerned either.\r\n\r\nThat said, to create a serious alternative means dealing with fundamental aspects of the conservative critique of government as the mechanism, from \"public choice\" economics that sees the state and its agencies and revenue maximizers instead of neutral agents, to the issue of information/interest disparity (direct recipients of largesse more interested in keeping it regardless, than indirect contributors are of taking it away), etc. Some steps have been made via books like Gaebler and Osborne\'s \"Reinventing Government,\" but liberal policy still has a ways to go before it can face its opponents from a firm foundation.\r\n\r\nIronically, American conservatives and liberals mirror image each other domestically and abroad. Domestically, conservatives have effectively dissolved large chunks of the belief base upon which liberal policy rests. What they don\'t yet have is a compelling alternative that\'s fully fleshed out. The electorate is starting to see some attractive solutions from them, but the Right is still working that through. Until it\'s clearer, there will be polarization and also a trust deficit on these issues. \r\n\r\nLiberals have done much of the same vis-a-vis foreign policy, dissolving large chunks of the belief base upon which conservative policies rest. They\'ve barely begun the serious solution stage, however, and so both the polarization and the trust deficit approach stratospheric (20-40%) levels. \r\n\r\nBecause of that, and because they believe themselves to be on more defensible theoretical ground, the Right\'s reaction has been to work at rebuilding the belief base. They may yet succeed. Ironically, if this happened it would probably HELP the Democrats, as the focus of competition would then shift strongly to domestic differences. Can the Right build a strong, compelling social vision before it destroys the Left\'s international vision and tilts the playing field back to domestic issues? Stay tuned.\r\n\r\nTrent\'s probably right that the Democrats are toast in 2004, therefore, but much can happen between now and then and so more qualification and less chest-thumping would be wise. The broader issue of the Democrats\' long term future is more mixed, and depends on a number of variables. Wilderness status of the type the Republicans faced from the New Deal to the late 70s is indeed a very possible fate. It is not a certain one, however, and a liberal movement that faced its weaknesses squarely and got rid of the extremes could also ride some favourable demographic trends and become a solid majority again.\r\n\r\nAL intends to do his bit to make that happen.','2003-05-30 18:33:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3127,1,3532,'198.26.130.36','Skid','skid@theriver.com','','Nichevo,\r\n\r\nHow did we do CAS before the the A-10 came along with its titanium bathtub?\r\n\r\nAre you suggesting we didn\'t?\r\n\r\nSkid','2003-05-30 18:34:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3128,1,3553,'68.164.71.9','Ken Hahn','kghahn@earthlink.net','','The problem is perception. The right sees the left as misguided. The left sees the right as evil. It is the moral indignation of the left that prevents civil discussion. There are many on the right who behave uncivilly, but it is difficult to find anyone on the left who does not take every political discussion personally.\r\nPerhaps my ideas are evil, but you\'re going to have to persuade me of that, not just attack. ','2003-05-30 18:37:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3129,1,3553,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Robert asks: \"I\'m not sure what you mean by this. \"Buchanan\'s circle\" has been very much aligned with the anti-war left, and he\'s been very vocal in attacking the \"neo conservative warmongerers and imperialists\".\"\r\n\r\nYes. In his case, he still sees America as going to hell in a handbasket. Immigration, multiculturalism, and now backstabbing Jews uh, neoconservatives are hijacking America\'s foreign policy. Fill in gloomy Marvin the Paranoid Android rant here, woe is us... and so the togetherness, heroism, and basic decency we saw post 9/11 rolled off of those conservatives like water off a duck\'s back.\r\n\r\nMany other conservatives, however, paused, thought about it, and began to say things to the effect of \"you know, we have our issues but this is still America, and this new generation, they\'re pretty good.\" It kind of took out some of the memes they were poisoning themselves with during the Clinton years.','2003-05-30 18:51:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3130,1,3553,'12.43.229.2','Charles Hueter','drizz@drizzten.com','http://www.drizzten.com','Mr. Knight, my answer to your question is the Religious Right, if given the opportunity, would generally like to impose it\'s view of morality on the nation through legislation. Social conservatives are fine until they try to regulate private behavior.\r\n\r\nOf course, this also goes for the Left and it\'s attempts to regulate the economic sphere, as well as the private sphere in some instances.\r\n\r\nAs to the main point of the discussion, I feel it is more important to hold everyone to a high moral standard and treat rights abuses with equal vehemence. Of course, since we all have limited time and resources, we can\'t always denounce every example of wrongful state action. Ditto for the media, who I think has a larger role in this than is being commented upon.\r\n\r\nRegardless of political bias claims, it has to be acknowledged that the mainstream news media has a tendancy to downplay foreign human rights problems and inflate our own. This is natural simply because the audience is not overwhelmingly Sudanese, Belgian, or Korean...it\'s American and the assumption that we prefer to track and address our own problems is probably true. So I think some of us on both sides are coming into this with a mindset shaped by the things we read on a daily basis.\r\n\r\nSince my country and my state (Texas) have the ability to affect me in a far greater capacity in both the short- and long-term timeframes, I feel like my attention is best spent on focusing on the local problems and keeping an eye on the rest of the world. I acknowledge the widespread problems elsewhere, but they honestly don\'t impact my life with the power our governments can bring. It\'s personal preference, but the standard is the same (to the best of my ability) across all nations and peoples.','2003-05-30 18:56:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3131,1,3553,'68.5.110.43','Kevin Drum','calpundit@cox.net','http://www.calpundit.com','Guys, I don\'t even know what you want me to respond to. You\'re just saying that liberals (or leftists, or many leftists, or whatever) hate America, but providing no evidence. You\'ve got to give me something to respond to.\r\n\r\nI have no doubt at all that there are some extreme lefties who are critical of all American use of military power, just as there are extreme righties who think we ought to make it illegal to be gay. But talking about the extreme 5% of the political spectrum is just dumb. Who cares about those people?\r\n\r\nI\'ll be happy to respond if you can point to ordinary Democrats/liberals/leftists who have said things indicating that they hate America. Hell, you don\'t even have to go that far. There are lots of popular liberal blogs, so just find some stuff there.\r\n\r\nTell you what: why don\'t you collect quotes from liberal blogs in, say, the top 30 in Bear\'s ecosystem? If you can find a substantial amount of stuff to back up your contention, then I\'ll respond. But you\'ve got to give me some meat to chew on.','2003-05-30 18:57:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3132,1,3553,'68.161.99.195','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','\"What laws have the \'Religious Right\' tried to have passed since they became a fully fledged in the GOP? \"\r\n\r\nOff the top of my head I can think of a few:\r\n\r\nGovernment-supported faith-based social engineering.\r\nVarious attempts to restrict abortion.\r\nVarious attempts to ban teaching evolution or install teaching creationism.\r\nAttempts to legislate putting the 10 Commandments in government facilities, violating the establishment clause.\r\nVigorously opposing gay rights, sometimes taking the form of trying to pass laws banning in advance gay marriage or domestic partner legislation.\r\nAttempts to regulate expressions of violence and sex in entertainment media.\r\n\r\nMost of these haven\'t passed, but it\'s not for want of trying. I\'m sure others in this thread can think of more.\r\n\r\nBTW it\'s great to see people calling Kevin on his vacuous and evasive debate style and over-simplification and mis-representation of other people\'s arguments. I don\'t visit his blog anymore because it\'s like eating cotton candy - there\'s no there there.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-30 18:59:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3133,1,3554,'152.10.83.108','Mark','mark@rationalexplications.com','http://www.rationalexpications','\"It is about keeping those who have from using what they have to take from those who don\'t.\"\r\n\r\nI agree with that statement, but I think we would have different solutions.\r\n\r\nThe way to prevent entrenchment is to have no barriers to entry. That means more laissez-faire, not less. I\'d guess in Europe with all their regulations, that there is less social mobility than here. We do not want to allow the rich to use the apparatus of the state to maintain their position, and the best way to do that is to be reflexively free market!\r\n\r\n','2003-05-30 19:00:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3134,1,3553,'24.60.161.253','Mike Siegel','no@spam.please','','\r\n\"If you expect more of the US, isn\'t that because the US is, in fact, better than Communist China? But the Left wants it both ways - it wants to criticize the US without acknowledging that in most other countries the situation is far worse.\" --Bruce\r\n\r\nWhile you do find Stalin apologists on the far Left, I don\'t think this is representitive. Any political movement has its extremist whackos.\r\n\r\nI think a lot of us on the \'sane\' Left want to know why China gets a \"most favored\" trade status with us. No sane individual is advocating waging war on China to free Tibet. We seem to ignore Saudi Arabia\'s oppressive regime and the fact that most of the 9/11 hi-jackers were Saudis.\r\n\r\nThe Right claims \"moral clarity\" but the US has often followed a relativistic policy of \"the enemy of my enemy is my friend\". Neither Fidel nor Batista was a fit leader or a decent human being. Both the Left and the Right seem to blame one and ignore the other.\r\n\r\n-Mike Siegel','2003-05-30 19:03:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3135,1,3552,'64.222.71.4','Tom Collins','pv1595@yahoo.com','','Jonathan,\r\n You are mistaken. The genocide did happen but not in the manner you state. It happened in Vietnam by the communists after the Americans had left. \r\n ','2003-05-30 19:09:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3136,1,3553,'209.116.70.133','ChrisL','no@no.no','','\r\n\"...if you\'re an American, it should be your responsibility to expose US crimes and conflicts of interest, not Russia\'s. Unlike the latter, you can, at least in theory, do something about the former.\"\r\n\r\nThis excuse is ages-old, for \"excuse\" is exactly what it is. It\'s an open declaration that one will only see evil in America\r\n\r\nThere is nothing in the statement you quote that says the author will limit what he/she complains about to America, or that he will only find fault with America. Your \"only\" is totally inaccurate.\r\n\r\nYou might find this helpful.\r\n\r\n-c','2003-05-30 19:16:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3137,1,3553,'172.163.224.56','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','I\'ve often heard it said that the right has Christianity while the left has Liberalism.\r\n\r\nThis article on Huntington makes some excellent points on this topic.','2003-05-30 19:25:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3138,1,3553,'68.5.110.43','Kevin Drum','calpundit@cox.net','http://www.calpundit.com','Jeez, Judith, one or two posts saying I don\'t like Ariel Sharon and I\'m vacuous and evasive? Goodness.\r\n\r\nAnything in particular you think I\'m evasive about? I\'d say I\'m pretty direct about my opinions.','2003-05-30 19:25:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3139,1,3553,'24.77.20.70','murray','seaview35@hotmail.com','','Whoa there. What straw man? \r\n\r\nThe original quote was:\r\n\r\n\"...if you\'re an American, it should be your responsibility to expose US crimes and conflicts of interest, not Russia\'s. Unlike the latter, you can, at least in theory, do something about the former.\"\r\n\r\nIt is perfectly reasonable to interpret this as:\r\n\r\nSince we cannot influence Russia\'s [or by implication, anyone else\'s] behaviour, we should not spend time exposing them -- time that would be more productively spent exposing [putative] \"US crimes and conflicts of interests.\"\r\n\r\nYour responsibility as a citizen of the US is apparently to expose its evils, and not waste time on anyone else\'s. I thought it was pretty clear, myself. Perhaps the author of the original quote would care to clear this up?','2003-05-30 19:27:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3140,1,3554,'64.167.150.20','Gabriel','elkaim@stanford.edu','','\"It is about keeping those who have from using what they have to take from those who don\'t.\"\r\n\r\nI also agree with this statement, and even what is proposed by Mark, but I\'d like to take it one step further. I will argue that one of the things that has helped prevent an entrenched aristocracy has been the much maligned estate tax, which presents the wealthy with a simple choice: Give it to the Govenment, or give it away.\r\n\r\nHere is a radical proposal: Increase the estate tax (with an inflation indexed amount allowed to be tranferred to your children) to the point where you can do away entirely with income tax.\r\n\r\nI think that most (small l) libertairians would accept the compromise of paying all of your taxes at the end of your life, rather than taking a small chunk throughout.\r\n\r\nAnd that would provide a huge growth boon to the economy. Now, there\'s a position bound to generate some fireworks.','2003-05-30 19:31:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3141,1,3553,'209.116.70.133','ChrisL','no@no.no','','Whoa there. What straw man? \r\n\r\nIt\'s an open declaration that one will only see evil in America\r\n\r\nupon further consideration, i see that i\'m reading that sentence as: \"It\'s an open declaration that one will only see evil in America\" or maybe \"It\'s an open declaration that one will only see evil in America\". Joe probably meant the emphasis to be on \"in America\". My mistake - though one easily made, considering the tone of the rest of the piece.\r\n','2003-05-30 19:39:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3142,1,3553,'216.68.253.1','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com/','Yehudit:\r\n\"Attempts to regulate expressions of violence and sex in entertainment media.\"\r\n\r\nWhoah there. Since when was Tipper Gore part of the Religious Right?\r\n\r\nI\'m no fan of the Religious Right, but you can\'t blame them solely for this.','2003-05-30 19:52:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3143,1,3553,'128.135.181.132','Ted','notreally@address.com','','\"Your responsibility as a citizen of the US is apparently to expose its evils, and not waste time on anyone else\'s. I thought it was pretty clear, myself. Perhaps the author of the original quote would care to clear this up?\"\r\n\r\nSo if I\'m following the logic right, if (as seems to be the case from the polls) the vocal lunatic fringe of the Left is damaging the Left\'s credibility, the appropriate course of action for the Left is...[rereads Drum]...to deny the problem exists and declare that evil conservatives are persecuting them. What was that again about solving the problems in one\'s *own* backyard and not wasting time on things you can\'t change?\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-30 19:52:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3144,1,3554,'207.245.113.120','Undertoad','undertoad@cellar.org','http://cellar.org','JK, so the first such step to the left facing its weaknesses squarely and getting rid of the extremes is to... defend redistribution?\r\n\r\nNot by utilitarian arguments, but by touchy-feely hand-wringing over some rogue aristocracy? Class warfare II: in the post-scarcity era, the rich don\'t actively kill us or enslave us any longer, but they sure do make us FEEL bad, what with their driving Hummers and getting needless plastic surgery. Plus they get to boss us around at work. It\'s not FAIR! Let\'s USE those FEELINGS to support our politics!\r\n\r\nSmells like the same-old same-old to me, winds of stagnation.\r\n\r\nIf you want to face the weakness square in the face, ask yourself why the biggest redistribution plan ever conceived in this country led to two decades of lower economic growth -- and the return to that growth in the last decade has been the best thing to happen to the poor since... I dunno, since those wallets with chains attached were invented.\r\n','2003-05-30 20:01:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3145,1,3532,'64.73.73.18','SparcVark','lanzknecht@hotmail.com','',' Skid:\r\n\r\n You\'re an old Eagle driver, I just used to code for them. Well, flight computer and AFMSS, but I digress. Still, wouldn\'t you agree that CAS + single engine = uh-oh ?\r\n\r\n The problem is that CAS is treated as a stepchild role by the USAF. They don\'t believe in it, don\'t take the time to make sure it\'s done well, and sometimes have to be hassled to see it\'s done at all. That \"A\" on the 22 has to be some kind of marketing stunt.\r\n\r\n CAS is critical, and ignoring it means lives lost. Seriously, if the Air Force isn\'t willing to take care of it, the role should be handed to someone who is more willing.','2003-05-30 20:03:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3146,1,3553,'67.225.186.189','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','\"But talking about the extreme 5% of the political spectrum is just dumb.\"\r\n\r\nIt\'s far more than that; the problem is, you have your head buried in the sand, apparently - unable to see the world around you (in the very circles you run in). Hey, I ran in those circles myself: this is a case of \"who am I supposed to believe - Kevin Drum, or my lyin eyes?\"\r\n\r\nThere are bumper stickers, comments every day in coffee shops, at magazine stands, even super-market checkout lines (one doesn\'t try to overhear other people\'s conversations, but one does whether one wants to or not). There are prominent Dems consistently comparing their opponents to NAZIs - it\'s not just some \"fringe element\" in protests (that in other contexts we\'re told are massive mobilizations of the Left).\r\n\r\nIf you want more evidence, I refer you to the archives of my Blog. If you want me to spoon-feed you links, well, you need to excersise a little initiative yourself. You\'ll even find a link in there from within the last month, approvingly linking to one of Richard Cohen\'s (no conservative, he) columns, wherin he fingers this same problem (and he didn\'t, and neither does Michael Walzer, think this is some sort of \"tiny\" problem for that side of the political spectrum).\r\n\r\nAs for the constant harping on the Buchananites and their ilk, well it\'s a demonstration of the distinction I made in my initial post: if decent Leftists (and Liberals) would do what decent conservatives did, and take efforts themselves to marginalize the Hate-America fringe on the Right, rather than making common cause with them and rising (as you have here) to defend them as part of the movement (and accuse anyone on the right who\'s critical of them of being critical of the entire set of Liberals or the entire set of the Left - which speaks, IMO, to the still-remaining \"No Enemies on the Left\" mindset of the Left as a whole).\r\n\r\nThere have been long pieces, not just recently but over the years, in magazines like National Review and the sort, identifying disreputable \"conservatives\" and calling them out on it. The same is true of generally \"conservative\" Blogs (though even moreso; \"conservative\" blogs have been most critical of so-called \"conservatives\" of the sort that have been mentioned here) From the Left, though, the reaction tends to be along the lines of your comments here: misrepresenting the critique made by folks like Joe and myself, deliberately (it doesn\'t seem to be unintentionaly) generalizing it even when it was rather careful (one looks at, say, Joe\'s post and my comments, and see\'s a clear distinction between varieties of people on the Left - a distinction that absolutely disapears in your mischaracterization of them).\r\n\r\nSo we get from even the supposed \"decent\" Left a indifference to those among them who are rather openly hostile about the country and its institutions, and (especially) their political opponents (to the point that it\'s often fairly clear that, if they had their way, this would be a one party state if they ever got the opportunity) - again, you want examples, I refer you to my archives as a start (they only scratch the surface), but the reason this persists, and the sort of people organizing rallies & protests and acting as if they were spokesmen for the Left generally get away with it because folks like yourself, who might otherwise take back their own movement (and thus creating a \"Decent Left\" again), instead join not in criticizing such extremism (as you yourself term it), but in condemning the criticism of it and saying it shouldn\'t be bothered with (well, people do bother with the obligatory condemnations of Buchanan et al, and of Falwell).\r\n\r\nIndeed, one of the things that makes Armed Liberal so refreshing is he cleaves to his principles - all of them - and doesn\'t play that game. (Arthur Schlesinger, Jr, did it in one memorable book, \"The Disuniting of America\", but the reaction he received among the circles he runs in was apparently so harsh that he went back to toeing the line).\r\n\r\nIndeed, if one looks at the folks who are painted as \"Neoconservatives\", many of them started out as Scoop Jackson Democrats who spoke and wrote openly about the extremists among what they, at the time, still considered their own political movement: people like Jeanie Kirkpatrick and even Paul Wolfowitz, among a vast number of others. The reaction to them was about as your reaction here (that they were \"contemptable\" for finding some among the Left to be worthy of criticism), and were, essentially, excommunicated (\"Neoconservative\" being a term invented by their enemies to describe them) for their heresy. So this is an old problem. (and, yah, we Right Wingers so hate and loathe all Liberals and paint them all with such a broad brush, that they were accepted into the conservative movement and Republican party, and those - like the Buchannanites - who refused to accept them were the ones that we disassociated ourselves from; Being one of these Refugees from Liberalism myself, I know how conservatives are on this score, btw).\r\n\r\nOr another example: Harrold Bloom is often seen as a \"conservative\" by the ignorant, because of his criticism of some varieties of academic, cultural, and intellectual Leftism. But the man is a self-described Socialist who never voted for a Republican and never would. So, like the recent writings of Christopher Hitchens, Bloom finds more admirers on the Right than among the \"See No Evil on the Left\" Liberals to whom one might more naturally expect his critiques to appeal to.\r\n\r\nBut mentioning all this is, of course, \"contemptable\". These things simply shouldn\'t be examined, or even said.\r\n\r\nI could go on, but time is short. In closing, though, if you know of no examples of these things, it\'s not because they don\'t exist, nor it is because they haven\'t been linked to and discussed when they appear on Leftist blogs and websites by Conservatives (only to have each example, no matter how numerous they are, in turn dismissed as isolated). It\'s because you don\'t want to know. Indeed, I shouldn\'t toot my own Blog\'s horn so much - one can check out a variety of conservative blogs and see countless examples over the last - well, how long have Blogs been around? (But, then, your position apparently is: on the one hand, you\'re sick of seeing so many such posts, but on the other you need to be presented with more examples of them). Samizdata, a Libertarian (rather than conservative) site is another who\'s archives can be plumbed for countless examples of this sort of thing in action.\r\n\r\nThey are blind, who will not see, and all that.','2003-05-30 20:08:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3147,1,3553,'24.77.20.70','murray','seaview35@hotmail.com','','Uh, Ted, as long as you don\'t think those are my views. I was paraphrasing an argument that I think is ridiculous and immoral. Otherwise, I agree with you entirely.\r\n\r\nBut it\'s possible that my viewpoint is skewed. I work at a very Left Coast Canadian university, and the place is suffused with delusionary anti-Americanism. The media milieu in Canada leans largely towards our purported moral superiority vis-a-vis the US -- nation of peacekeepers, universal substandard healthcare, monstrous regional redistributionism, knee-jerk internationalism etc. It sounds like Europe is similar, as is my homeland of Australia. And large segments of the chattering classes up here do subscribe to the notion that America is the primary thing wrong with the world over the last half-century. Maybe these people are a tiny minority in the US, as Kevin asserts, but I sure seem to hear and read a lot from them -- on the letters page, in the op-eds of the Globe and Mail, in alternative weeklies, on CBC Radio, on NPR, and all over the internet. Do they hate America? I don\'t know, but I do know that they blame America whenever they can find the slightest pretext for doing so.','2003-05-30 20:08:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3148,1,3510,'66.59.138.198','Jim','jimmylevendia@hotmail.com','','InFilling,\r\n\r\nThe more you spout on about Bush or Clinton being bumbling idiots, the less intelligent you make yourself look. However good or bad the choices they made, I\'d bet against either of them doing what they did because \"they so stooopid!!\". Clinton was well known as a \"details man\", while Bush...well, the man gets 90% of what he wants, domestically and internationally, almost everytime. I should be such a bumbling idiot. Perhaps it makes YOU feel better to carry on thinking of them as idiots...in that case I charge for psychoanalysis. Reasonable rates.','2003-05-30 20:10:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3149,1,3552,'216.250.88.165','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','Tell that to the multimillion civilians who died as a result of three decades of US policy toward Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos.\r\n\r\n\"Destruction of locks and dams, however -- if handled right -- might....offer promise. It should be studied. Such destruction doesn\'t kill or drown people. By shallow-flooding the rice, it leads after a time to widespread starvation (more than a million?)unless food is provided -- which we could offer to do at the conference table.\"\r\n\r\nAsst. Secretary of Defense John McNaughton, 1996\r\n\r\n
\r\n\r\nHo Chi Minh wrote in a letter to President Truman in 1946:\r\n\r\n\r\nI wish to invite attention of your Excellency for strictly humanitarian reasons to following matter. Two million Vietnamese died of starvation during winter of 1944 and spring 1945 because of starvation policy of French who seized and stored until it rotted all available rice.... Three-fourths of cultivated land was flooded in summer 1945, which was followed by a severe drought; of normal harvest five-sixths was lost.... Many people are starving.... Unless great world powers and international relief organizations bring us immediate assistance we face imminent catastrophe....\r\n
\r\n\r\nThe French war against Indochina was funded and supported by the US, on a large scale. You read it right -- forced widespread Starvation. \r\n\r\nThe Impossible Victory: Vietnam\r\n\r\n','2003-05-30 20:15:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3150,1,3553,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Personally, I happen to like reading Calpundit. So, it\'s worth going back to the argument.\r\n\r\nKD: \"...you can point to ordinary Democrats/liberals/leftists who have said things indicating that they hate America.\"\r\n\r\nI do point to one, who made his statement very clearly. Even more clearly now that ChrisL has helpfully pointed out how it could be misread - I just italicized it so it won\'t be.\r\n\r\nBut Kevin, my point is NOT that all of even most Democrats hate America. Let\'s take that off the table, it doesn\'t belong there.\r\n\r\nTo reiterate:\r\n\r\nI\'m arguing that a very specific \"can\'t do anything about...\" meme, one I\'ve heard way beyond the far left, inelecutably leads toward a position that can only become excited about evil in America, while giving others a clear pass. [ALERT: not logically equal to hating America, though in extreme forms it could become that] \r\n\r\nI\'m argiung that this meme is highly corrosive in numerous ways, and hurts both liberals\' political standing and the body politic of which they are a part (q.v. Walzer, Havel, Shalala, Bloom, 25-40% security poll gaps, et. al.). Finally, I\'m arguing that removal of this meme and sharp, sustained criticism of it from within the lib-left could do much to restore liberal fortunes and shore up their philosophy\'s foundation in America.\r\n\r\nIs that clearer?','2003-05-30 20:28:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3151,1,3510,'68.162.209.163','Chris C.','ccha0@yahoo.com','','Dakota>>\r\n\r\nOff the top of my head, the U.S.S. Cole bombing, Kohbar Towers bombing, and the embassy bombings in Africa all happened under Clinton\'s watch.','2003-05-30 20:33:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3152,1,3510,'209.116.70.133','ChrisL','no@no.no','','glen,\r\n\r\nre: that state department chart,\r\n\r\nYes the number of terrorist incidents is down from past years (first chart). But, look at the second chart and you see that the decline is primarily due to the decrease in the number of incidents in South America. I believe the South American incidents are mostly Colombian pipeline bombings: property damage, not killings, and so are simply irrelevant to the real reasons for the War on Terror ™, IMO, and aren\'t the focus of Bush\'s attention in any case. In fact, if you ignore the South American numbers, the number of incidents worldwide drops from 154 in 2001 to 149 in 2002: a difference of 5. Now note how many North America had in 2001: 4 (compared to 0 and 0 in 2000 and 2002). \r\n\r\nSo, unless you\'re willing to give Bush and the US Republican party credit for keeping the FARC under control in Colombia (which I don\'t), and if you consider the North American incidents (9/11, anthrax) to be exceptions (which i do), the number of incidents from 2001 to 2002 didn\'t change much at all.\r\n\r\nI see absolutely no reason to think the Ds would be any less capable of reducing the number of terrorist incidents by 5. ','2003-05-30 20:34:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3153,1,3553,'67.225.186.189','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','I was reluctant to use this example, because I\'m really not into draging relatives into these things. But I have a sister who lives in New York and is in the theater community, and a mother who lives near me and is in the education community.\r\n\r\nSo they still run in broadly Liberal-Left circles. My mother\'s been a Democrat all her life, and a Liberal. She still considers herself a Liberal, but she voted for Bush in the last election, and supported the war. When political topics come up, she\'s been screamed at by her friends (not just one of them), who talk about the country being a dictatorship and launch into rambling tirades about the evils of the country.\r\n\r\nMy sister has encountered similar experiences with the people she works with and has befriended in New York, whenever the topic of politics has come up (my sister is, I would say, moderate and mostly apolitical but does have some views and doesn\'t think ill of the country - which is what gets her in trouble).\r\n\r\nAs I mentioned, I\'ve had my own experiences - and mostly in a completely different State from the one I live in now.\r\n\r\nThis is not a minor, or isolated thing at all. I don\'t say it\'s everyone, or even a majority. But these are fairly typical, average people I\'m talking about here (not simply a handfull of aging Marxists mimeographing issues of some newsletter or something). Right now I live in Southwest Colorado, which is about as far from the enclaves of \"notorious Leftism\" one can get. And there\'s hardly a day of the week that this attitude isn\'t encountered, in some form or another.\r\n\r\nIt\'s not rare.','2003-05-30 20:35:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3154,1,3510,'206.190.18.205','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The Democrats are losing on two fronts despite the cheerleading and whistilng past the grave evidenced here.\r\n\r\nThe national security front so well examined here. And the economic front examined here: \r\n\r\nhttp://windsofchange.net/archives/003485.html#003485\r\n\r\nWhat the Democrats fail to realize is that it is time for national unity politics. The most important thing they can do for the country is to protect civil liberties in time of war. In this effort they find significant support on the right.\r\n\r\nDespite what the Democrats who have posted here think, Bush\'s tax cut will jump start the economy in the next 12 to 18 months i.e. just in time for the election. \r\n\r\nThe economic question has been settled. The security question has been settled. That leaves only civil liberties for the Democrats. To win elections the Democrats will have to move towards the center. As I pointed out in the above url, the Republican social conservatives can live without a government enforced social situation. The Democrats cannot live without government enforced redistribution. Redistributionist policies are falling out of favor all over ther world, not just in America.\r\n\r\nI think the idea that the Ds are in for at least a 16 or 20 year hard ride are right on the money. In fact I predict the demise of the Democrats. It is the only way to cohesively restructure the elements of the party that are properly aligned for today\'s politics.','2003-05-30 20:38:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3155,1,3553,'67.225.186.189','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','(Oh, and just to be clear: I\'m not talking of simple anti-Republican, anti-conservative animus here. I\'m talking things that make it clear that the premise, the \"given\", is that this country is unique not in a positive way, but uniquely aweful, uniquely corrupt, uniquely wicked, uniquely murderous, etc. etc.)\r\n\r\nAnd we see that, again, in this thread. Indeed, there\'s hardly a comment thread (be it on Leftist, Liberal, or Conservative sites) where this isn\'t a commonly found aspect of comment threads (I\'ve seen it in message boards for games).\r\n\r\nIt\'s not rare (nor is this \"dissent\" \"suppressed\" - it\'s right out there. That\'s one reason why I have to express disbelief at the idea that Kevin is unaware of examples of this and needs to have someone show some to him. Pick a board and start talking politics or history).','2003-05-30 20:42:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3156,1,3553,'68.5.110.43','Kevin Drum','calpundit@cox.net','http://www.calpundit.com','Porph: the DLC has been railing against the extreme left for years and years. They\'re doing the same thing that the GOP leadership did to Buchanan. And pissed off liberals ranting against Bush is not the same thing as believing that America is evil. It\'s just pissed off liberals ranting against Bush.\r\n\r\nNo party will ever succeed in purging all of its extremists. But if we get into a pissing contest about whose extremists are worse, it gets pretty ugly pretty fast.\r\n\r\nI\'ve posted several times on my site that Dems need to have a more muscular foreign policy. That\'s a subject I\'m happy to talk about. But America being evil? Nah.','2003-05-30 20:47:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3157,1,3553,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','\"No party will ever succeed in purging all of its extremists. But if we get into a pissing contest about whose extremists are worse, it gets pretty ugly pretty fast.\"\r\n\r\n...Or leads into some good arguments in favour of space colonization. I often think it would be poetic justice to send them all out on the same ship.','2003-05-30 20:52:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3158,1,3532,'170.148.10.49','Nichevo','noah@brainlink.com','','Bathtub, redundancy, etc. Skid, wasn\'t the previous dedicated CAS aircraft the AD-3 Skyraider? Between them I believe the F-105 was highly used--but I also believe that aircraft had a checkered record and took many losses. CAS is a low-and-slow mission. You are certainly welcome to ask for the Skyraider back if you like, or the P-51 or P-47.\r\n\r\nIf you like to drive your F-15 ($50MM vs $3MM for the A-10, BTW, IIRC) at 200 knots and 200 feet into a nest of T-80s and Zsu-23s and try to pick off tanks with your 20mm, well you are very brave, but IMHO underprepared (yes I understand you can carry missiles and bombs, all of which could equally be used by B-52s or UAVs) and, I should think, at the edge of your crate\'s performance envelope. Which I imagine would not be well served by retrofitting a few tons of armor and a GAU-8/A.\r\n\r\nThe A-10 is precisely optimized for its mission. A successor airframe would constitute more of the same, plus maybe refinements like composite armor, vectored thrust engine, etc. Perhaps Rutan\'s Scaled Composites prototype from a few years back will please you. But that ain\'t aupersonic either, though it is pretty. If you don\'t want the mission why don\'t you give it to the Army?','2003-05-30 21:02:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3159,1,3554,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Redistribution is a core facet of the liberal-left argument, Undertoad. In fairness, there\'s an historical/civilizational case for it that goes well beyond feelings. Facing the weaknesses pointed out by the neoconservative critiques of liberalism is what must be done in order to create a more defensible postition re: redistribution, and that will probably mean a new set of systems around it and limits upon it.\r\n\r\nA.L. is starting with a defense of the core as something that still has some value. Because it still has some value, and because the \"legitimacy\" he talks about has political consequences, he\'s saying (I think) that predictions of the Dems\' demise may be premature. I\'m inclined to agree. Still, as I pointed out above, true success must go further or they\'ll remain vulnerable on social policy too. Can\'t expect A.L. to lay out the whole alternative all by himself in one blog post, though.','2003-05-30 21:14:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3160,1,3510,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','Trent,\r\n\r\nYou are missing one really big factor: demographics is destiny. Hispanics are the most rapidly growing segment of the US population and for decades they have never voted for Republican Presidential candidates at more than 36% or 37% and usually less than that. \r\n\r\nKarl Rove is naive to think the Republicans can make significant in-roads among Hispanics by supporting amnesties. An ethnic group that does not get as much education and does not get trained in the highest skill occupations at the same rate as whites is going to want government benefits for medical care and other purposes and the Democrats are going to offer them that.\r\n\r\nEven in Texas the Republican ascendancy is due to white people voting Republican at much higher rates than nationally. The gap between white and hispanic Republican voting is 20 or 30% (been a while since I saw the figures but it is large). \r\n\r\nPoor people are going to place a higher priority on domestic spending than on foreign policy. The growing ranks of the lower classes are going to become Democrats. If you want to see the future of the Republican Party look at California. \r\n','2003-05-30 21:15:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3161,1,3510,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Good comments section, as usual. The thing about analysis is that (a) events are not static, and change the playing field; and (b) the more \"maybes\" one strings together, the less the likelihood of a \"yes\" at the end.\r\n\r\nLots can happen between now and 2004, let alone 2008. The Democrats are definitely in trouble, for many of the reasons Trent mentions. That said, the generalizations we make about groups of people aren\'t uniformly true - and in those exceptions lies the potential for changes that could make a big difference. Especially when external events are thrown into the mix.','2003-05-30 21:22:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3162,1,3554,'207.245.113.120','Undertoad','undertoad@cellar.org','http://cellar.org','Okay, well, I\'m still listening/reading, and I\'ll be more patient.\r\n','2003-05-30 21:23:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3163,1,3554,'152.10.83.108','Mark','mark@rationalexplications.com','http://www.rationalexpications.com','Joe Katzman writes:\r\n\r\nIn fairness, there\'s an historical/civilizational case for it that goes well beyond feelings. Facing the weaknesses pointed out by the neoconservative critiques of liberalism is what must be done in order to create a more defensible postition re: redistribution, and that will probably mean a new set of systems around it and limits upon it.\r\n\r\nAll but the most radical libertarian support some redistribution of wealth. Those of us on the Right just want it to be done in a way that minimizes some weighted sum of the amount of statism necessary and the perverse incentives created by redistribution.\r\n\r\nFor instance, most of us on the Right support public FUNDING of education, but certainly not the public PROVISION of education the way it is today. It benefits teachers\' unions and the educational bureaucracy. What was meant as a policy to level the playing field has morphed into into a government program that seeks only to redistribute wealth to teachers\' unions.','2003-05-30 21:29:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3164,1,3510,'165.201.76.84','Dakota Loomis','bix101@yahoo.com','','Chris C. -\r\n\r\nThanks for the reminders, I had the World Trade bombing, but completely forgot about the African incidents and the Cole. \r\n\r\nStill, I\'m not sure how to blame Clinton OR Bush for terrorist action they have no control over. I\'m certainly not blaming Bush for 9-11, but he was president then. I\'m sure someone can blame Clinton for all these terrorist events, I just don\'t see how. It\'d be like blaming Roosevelt for WWII.\r\n\r\n ','2003-05-30 21:37:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3165,1,3534,'130.76.96.19','D. Lee','dwbplee@earthlink.net','','I\'ve almost finished reading Applebaum\'s book, and a few more key points bear mentioning:\r\n\r\nThe GULAG was, in fact, a severe economic drain on the USSR. They were never profitable in a real business sense, and in many respects they retarded Russia\'s development. Russia\'s best and brightest were sent to the camps because of Stalin\'s paranoia and brutality. They worked under the worst conditions, and had to be coerced and brutalized to perform any productive work. Many died in the camps, or were sentenced to exile in remote logging camps after their release. Stalin\'s \"enemies of the people\" included just about anyone having intelligence, initiative, and the capability for independent thought. In other words, the most innovative and productive people in Russia were systematically eliminated. The resulting loss to Russia\'s economic development is incalculable.\r\n\r\nA large Russian criminal class was also firmly established as a result of the camps (a rather sad legacy that Russia still lives with). Estimates vary, but about half of the camp inmates were ordinary criminals and thugs, including mass murderers, rapists, and the psychotically violent. Many camps were, in effect, run by a well-organized criminal heirarchy, and in the camps they perfected the arts of intimidation, violence, extortion, secrecy, and clandestine economic activity. They carried these \"skills\" with them to the outside world after their release. Most of Russia\'s present economy is run by criminal camp veterans and their descendents, or by the corrupt local party officials with whom they were often associated.\r\n\r\nThe camps caused severe disruptions to the social fabric of Russia that are still in evidence today. Families were torn apart, mothers (sometimes accompanied by their children) were sentenced to hard labor for \"offenses\" such as telling a political joke. In spite of claims made by Soviet propagandists, Russia was plagued with street criminals, orphans, homeless children (who often turned to crime as their only means of support), and destitute families whose fathers had been sent off to remote GULAG camps. The lessons learned by the general population were all negative: not to think, not to be creative, not to show initiative, not ot criticize any government action, not to share one\'s thoughts with others.\r\n\r\nThese are the sad legacies of Communism that Russia still lives with. Anyone having the slightest shred of sympathy for coerced socialism should read this book and feel very ashamed.','2003-05-30 21:40:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3166,1,3548,'151.203.217.21','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','So let me get this right. Iran\'s next, then maybe Pakistan, or North Korea or Syria.\r\n\r\nO.K. and when do we start the draft? \r\n\r\nAnd how many bonds are we going to sell to pay for this after the tax cuts?','2003-05-30 21:41:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3167,1,3548,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','In order: Yes, probably not, maybe, doubt it, never, lots.','2003-05-30 22:06:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3168,1,3553,'216.68.253.1','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com/','\"(I\'ve seen it in message boards for games)\"\r\n\r\nDitto. I\'ve seen a mailing list dedicated to a wargame turn into a flame war over the \"evil\" of the US.\r\n\r\nScary, that.','2003-05-30 22:13:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3169,1,3553,'216.68.253.1','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com/','BTW -- I\'ll give credit where it\'s due. It was EXTREMELY good to see Cynthia McKinney and her father run out of office. That she lost in the primary was especially heartening.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-30 22:18:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3170,1,3553,'64.60.186.15','Yar\'s Revenge','vengeanceisyars@lycos.com','http://yarsrevenge.blogspot.com/','Ah yes, the old \"your party\'s extremist ideologues are more dangerous than our party\'s extremist ideologues\" argument (I\'m sorry, \"meme\").\r\n\r\nIt seems that a week can\'t go by without somebody on the right trying to explain why the left needs to turn in on itself (who was it who used the delightful word \"purge?\") and eat their own until they start sounding more like good conservatives. \r\n\r\nAnother deadly \"meme\" is the idea that the government (provided it isn\'t helmed by a Clinton) is so deserving of our unqualified trust and support that we must refrain from criticizing it if there exist other, worse regimes elsewhere in the world, because really, who wants to aspire to anything more than being the lesser of multiple evils? Somebody once called that attitude \"unpatriotic and servile,\" but that was probably just some old America-hating Chomskyite scumbag. ','2003-05-30 22:22:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3171,1,3553,'66.32.177.28','clue','clue@bcke.com','','There are some common themes that recur in liberal (or leftist) and conservative thought, both in the extremes and in the \'mainstream\'. Some of them are:\r\n\r\n- The government is out to enslave us all (anti-government leftists and anti-government right-wing, militia-inclined types)\r\n- The difference between us and them is that we tolerate different viewpoints, but you have to sign up on the party line to be on their side (a frequent sentiment on both right- and left- leaning blogs when a \"troll\" appears in the comments)\r\n\r\nAnd of course\r\n\r\n- Your party\'s extremist ideologues are more dangerous than our party\'s extremist ideologues (espoused by the \"reasonable\" people on the other side of the aisle)\r\n\r\nI don\'t have the time to do a detailed study, but I think there are probably many more examples where partisan political ideologies, if stripped of the overtly partisan terms (\"Democrat\", \"Republican\", \"right\", \"left\", etc) are in fact nearly identical, the only difference being Team A or Team B.','2003-05-30 22:38:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3172,1,3510,'151.203.217.21','Klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','I disagree.\r\n\r\nYou heard it here first:\r\n\r\nKerry/Edwards or Edwards/Kerry or Graham/Edwards or Gephardt/Edwards or Lieberman/Edwards or Gephardt/Graham will win in 2004.\r\n\r\nBut I think Edwards will be somewhere on that ticket, barring he doesn\'t run or some scandal: South Carolina native and North Carolina Senator.\r\n\r\nCould be other things like Kerry/Zell Miller.\r\n\r\nLook at the vote totals and the electoral college map for 2000. What state that voted Dem in 2000 is going to switch to Repub?\r\n\r\nMy God, Gore almost won Florida, but for Nader and butterfly ballots. This just after Elian Gonzalez and the Clinton scandals! \r\n\r\nMy prediction of what\'s going to happen between now and then:\r\n\r\nA deflating economy with rocketing deficits and unemployment;\r\n\r\nReal pain in local governments as social programs and educational aid are cut due to lack of federal support\r\n\r\nOsama is still going to be free, jumping out once in a while to raise the threat level to orange without any major terrorist attack actually happening.\r\n\r\nNo Nader - Greens endorse Dems. Even if Nader were to run, he\'s a spent force. Nader pulled big votes away from Gore in Pac. NW, Cal, Maine, Minn. Gore would have won several states more w/o Nader running\r\n\r\nWhat could happen:\r\n\r\nAnother preemptive attack on Iran/Syria/North Korea predicated on WMDs being there. \r\n\r\nWar might help an incumbent to some degree, but too much war might not. The WMD threat, fairly or unfairly, will be viewed ith suspicion.\r\n\r\nNo conclusive results/improvement/continued conflict in Afghanistan/Iraq.\r\n\r\nMore estrangement with our old allies in Europe, more opposition to the USA there.\r\n\r\nWild card:\r\n\r\nMcCain runs as independent.\r\n\r\n \r\n','2003-05-30 22:50:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3173,1,3553,'64.60.186.15','Yar\'s Revenge','vengeanceisyars@lycos.com','http://yarsrevenge.blogspot.com/','Right you are, Clue. Somebody up above pointed out the fact that the right \"hates America\" just as much as the left -- but what they \"hate\" about America is different from what the left \"hates\" about America. If I had to make a glib categorization, I would say that the left\'s disapproval is usually aimed at American policy (foreign and domestic), while the right often trains its guns on American culture.\r\n\r\nOf course, the right usually blames the degradation of American culture on \"the Hollywood left,\" which I suppose makes it, in their eyes, criticism of something that is not and never can be identified with anything truly \"American;\" but by the same logic, liberals often claim that the policies they criticize are those which run counter to our country\'s founding ideals of freedom and equality, and are therefore \"un-American\" despite being endorsed by the current American government. So, in reality, neither side is attacking \"America,\" they\'re attacking ideas, values, and actions that they don\'t approve of -- and good God, what on Earth is wrong with that?\r\n\r\nAny criticism, left or right, is perfectly valid if you can make a sensible case for it. But to say that \"your form/angle of criticism is morally unacceptable to me and my like-minded brethren; therefore we do not have to listen to or consider a word of it\" is as ridiculous as it is intellectually dishonest.','2003-05-30 22:58:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3174,1,3553,'68.50.63.200','Clio','kmkobor@hotmail.com','','I\'m gonna second Porphyrogenitus\' recent comments. The level of hysteria coming from certain corners of the left is sky high and rising. I can\'t really speak to whether Republicans who have serious points of difference try to oust each other from the Party. Maybe another reader can enlighten us there. What I can say is that zealots on the Left are ever vigilant for signs of independent thinking (it is ALWAYS punished) and that such guardians of the \"Democratic wing of the Democratic Party\" are eager to show the door these days to anyone who does not agree that Bush=Hitler and the Iraq War was a greater evil than the Holocaust. At a recent dinner party in my own home I was informed by friends that I was no longer a Democrat (?!) because of my support for the War and Bush\'s policies in the War on Terror. It hardly matters who carries the party\'s banner in November; the blood is flowing at the grassroots level.\r\n\r\nAnd just to add a little personal insight into the larger battle du jour. In my doctoral history program Americanists far outweighed \"third world historians\" like myself and Europeanists combined. And apart from a few colleagues who studied a bit of African or Caribbean history to round out their knowledge of the slave trade, none of the Americanists took a secondary field in a foreign region. They simply didn\'t care. Thus friends called me a \"Southeast Asian historian\" when I am a South Asianist (yes, there\'s a huge difference). The point is, don\'t assume the smart critic of American foreign policy has a clue what anyone else is up to. And no, Kevin, it can\'t just be attributed to our greater ability to influence the local over the global. Chalk it up to sheer laziness.','2003-05-30 23:14:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3175,1,3553,'66.32.177.28','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Clio: ...such guardians of the \"Democratic wing of the Democratic Party\" are eager to show the door these days to anyone who does not agree that Bush=Hitler and the Iraq War was a greater evil than the Holocaust.\r\n\r\nCase in point: Maybe I never got the memo because I\'m not a registered Democrat, but who the hell actually thinks that the Iraq war was worse than the Holocaust or that Bush equals Hitler? Certainly not the gatekeepers at the DLC. If anybody believes that kind of lunacy, it\'s either the anti-Semitic America-hating IndyMedia leftist fringe, or the anti-Semitic America-hating FreeRepublic rightist fringe. To plaster this on \"Democrats\" is as absurd as it would be to apply it to \"Republicans\".','2003-05-30 23:23:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3176,1,3510,'66.32.177.28','clue','clue@bcke.com','','The economic question has been settled.\r\n\r\nMy god, really? Yet somehow my state (pick a state, any state) is under a huge budget crisis, meaning all kinds of services (social, transporation, security) are being cut at the local level. Unemployment here (pick a place, any place) is at an 8 year high, there are no jobs, formerly middle-class and upper-middle-class are seeking support services previously required only by the poor and working poor. Yet around here (wherever it is) you can still plainly see that the rich are doing very, very well, and no matter how you spin it it\'s indisputable that the rich are far and away the greatest beneficiaries of tax cuts. Lining the pockets of the wealthy now and suggesting to the struggling that the excess wealth of the wealthy will somehow tricke down does not a sane economic forecast make.','2003-05-30 23:45:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3177,1,3553,'12.15.133.9','James','james@iconics.com','','Obviously both \"views\" have a hates America group. The right\'s hate America group (militia groups) don\'t end up getting major face time. When was the last time you saw a militia group given face time as a representative of the right? When they do manage to get press, the right readily disavows them.\r\n\r\nChomskey, who clearly fits this category, has been given television time, newspaper space, magazine space, etc. This is not the wisest of political moves. Especially right after 9/11. How many on the left spoke out against his ideas? Better yet, how many from the left spoke out against the whole \"understand the root causes\" idea? Anybody whose grown up in a tough neighborhood will tell you, answer that question after the fight not during it. \r\n\r\nIf the majority of the \"left\", had said. \"We appreciate your view, but you don\'t represent our position.\" This would not even be an issue. Silence has been equated with agreement.\r\n\r\nPersonal Note: I dislike Chomskey\'s politics.','2003-05-30 23:48:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3178,1,3553,'66.32.177.28','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Sorry, but what\'s wrong with the \"understand the root causes\" idea? Keeping the question seperate from the answer you\'re likely to get from some quarters, don\'t you think it\'s a worthwhile question to ask? And, since this fight may go on for years, whatever the root causes are, it seems prudent to devote some resources to figuring them out and addressing them before the next big fight.','2003-05-30 23:59:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3179,1,3553,'64.60.186.15','Yar\'s Revenge','vengeanceisyars@lycos.com','http://yarsrevenge.blogspot.com/','Chomskey, who clearly fits this category, has been given television time, newspaper space, magazine space, etc. This is not the wisest of political moves.\r\n\r\nExcuse me, but what are \"mainstream liberals\" supposed to do about that? Leave a severed donkey\'s head in Chomsky\'s bed for him to wake up to? \r\n\r\nBy the way, next time Chomsky is scheduled for a TV appearance, please drop me a line; I\'ve managed to miss every single one of them so far. \r\n\r\nBetter yet, how many from the left spoke out against the whole \"understand the root causes\" idea?\r\n\r\nProbably not very many, because it\'s a widely-held left-wing belief that understanding and addressing the \"root causes\" is absolutely critical to preventing terrorism. Note that you can go out and drop bombs on current, active terrorists while simultaneously taking steps to ensure that you aren\'t breeding generations of future terrorists. \r\n\r\nIf the majority of the \"left\", had said. \"We appreciate your view, but you don\'t represent our position.\" This would not even be an issue. Silence has been equated with agreement.\r\n\r\nWell, I didn\'t hear the \"right\" disavow Jerry Falwell\'s remarks that atheists, feminists, and homosexuals were responsible for 9/11, and yet I am somehow able to accept that this does not necessarily mean that they endorse his viewpoint. \r\n\r\nOnce again, this boils down to \"your party should be arguing with itself, not with our party.\" Just another way of evading a substantive debate. ','2003-05-31 00:07:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3180,1,3554,'66.32.177.28','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Any government spending is, in effect, a redistribution of wealth from the general taxpaying citizenry to some combination of a subset of said citizenry and public or private organizations. Criticizing the provision of education funds as primarily benefitting teachers\' unions may be valid, but not necessarily more so than criticizing no-bid contracts awarded to private companies that are run by close associates of the current Administration. As Mark points out, the issue is more the provision of funds than the funding itself, but if you\'re going to look at how government expenditures redistribute wealth, it\'s only fair to look at all the expenditures.','2003-05-31 00:13:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3181,1,3554,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','clue -\r\n\r\nI\'ll extend that to note that you also have to look at tax preferences, regulatory policy, etc., etc., all of which have substantial redistributive effects (not necessarly progressive...)\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-31 00:55:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3182,1,3555,'66.32.177.28','clue','clue@bcke.com','','I spent most of your well-thought article wondering if and how this was going to apply to the Administration\'s own (public, at least) absolute insistence of the presence of WMD, and here it is.\r\n\r\nSo Saddam believes he has them, and from that, we infer that he does, and what is really going on is a bunch of nervous paper-shuffling\r\n\r\nI\'m sorry, but I find the notion that the Bush Administration was lead to the belief that Hussein\'s regime was in possesion of large quantities of chemical and biological weapons (not to mention a nascent nuclear weapons program) solely on the basis of knowledge (acquired how?) that Huseein himself believed so to be totally unconvincing.\r\n\r\nBillmon has an excellent post listing some of the claims made by Bush and other Administration officials, as well as other hawkish associates thereof, and several commenteers have contributed to the list. Basically, if the people making these statements believing them to be true, including those which cited American intelligence, and if American intelligence itself believed this to be true (and we know that there was quite a bit of dissent within that community), then we\'re faced with the prospect that we were all duped by accident into believing this, because the people responsible for faking Iraq\'s WMD program to Hussein did such a good job that they fooled us too.\r\n\r\nHonestly, I\'d rather believe that my government just lied to me about it, rather than believe they were fooled hook, line and sinker by Dr. Germ. It would be an outrage, but at least it wouldn\'t be embarrasing.\r\n\r\nI also strongly question why this conjecture has, as far as I can tell, been solely created and floated by Americans trying to explain the absense of Iraqi WMD. Why have none of the Iraqis involved in the non-programs come forward? At this point, they have nothing to lose or fear by telling the truth. Yet as far as I\'ve read they continue to state that there was no active program and the stockpiles were destroyed. Why would they still claim this?\r\n\r\nI would suggest as a more likely scenario that much of what American intelligence there was supporting WMD claims was provided by Iraqi expatriots with huge axes to grind and much fortune to be made in a post-Hussein Iraq with powerful American liberators to help install them in power.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-05-31 00:59:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3183,1,3555,'138.133.17.10','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','clue -\r\n\r\n...partially explains my problem #2 (Bush) i.e. he chose to believe expats and others with agendas, but I\'d still be anxious about facts coming out afterwards; but not #1, i.e. why did Saddam act as he did, which looked even to Blix like he was working to hide something?\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-31 01:05:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3184,1,3555,'68.3.164.223','TomK','thud20@cox.net','','Sorry Clue, but I\'ve gotta side with A.L. on this. If the stories about WMD were a lie, the whole damn world was in on it. No serious thinking people argued they weren\'t there at all. Every government, on both sides of the debate pretty much agreed they had WMD, they just argued about how to deal with it.\r\n\r\nHell, we KNOW they had them, they used the damn things twice, on a major scale! Where did they go?\r\n\r\nI\'ll say this much: I support Bush and the war, but if it comes out that we do have evidence right now and we\'re sitting on it until the opposition embarasses itself, I\'m not exactly going to be happy. I mean, I\'ll be as happy as the next guy if the opposition is sidelined, but this doesn\'t seem like an issue to play politics over.','2003-05-31 01:47:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3185,1,3555,'66.32.177.28','clue','clue@bcke.com','','A.L. my problem with #1\r\n\r\n1) Miller\'s sources were right about WMD, and it\'s just a matter of time before the United States finds evidence to back them up;\r\n\r\nis not so much that Hussein acted as though he had WMD, but that the Administration and the Pentagon repeated claimed that they had very specific intelligence about the type, quantity and location of WMD in Iraq. Unless all of the offending toxins were moved (and, one hopes, our satellite surveilance would have easily identified tankerfuls of chemicals being shipped to Syria, regardless of what some would have us believe) between the time the purported intelligence was gathered and the time we were able to inspect the sites ourselves, the intelligence was just plain wrong.\r\n\r\nUnless a secret underground mountain of chemical weapons is found somewhere in Iraq, I just don\'t see how the administration can logically spin this in their favor (note my use of the term \"logically\", as distinct from \"successfully\"). The only question to be asked of any of the number of people who clamored for war based on the threat of Hussein\'s WMD will be whether they were lying or were simply, tragically wrong.','2003-05-31 02:01:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3186,1,3555,'66.32.177.28','clue','clue@bcke.com','','TomK:\r\n\r\nIf the stories about WMD were a lie, the whole damn world was in on it.\r\n\r\nNot really. I\'m not claiming they were a lie, but it was in fact the hawkish arms of the American and British administrations who were providing the reasoning and citing their own intelligence. Most of the rest of the world (and significant constituencies within those countries) was and remains fairly skeptical of those claims. \r\n\r\nHell, we KNOW they had them, they used the damn things twice, on a major scale! Where did they go?\r\n\r\nA large quantity--nobody can claim \"all\", but many claim \"most\"--of Iraq\'s chemical and biological weapons were destroyed during the inspections between 1991 and 1998 (correct me if I\'m wrong on the dates). I\'m not going to claim that the inspections were robust or successful enough to identify and eliminate all of their WMD, but the did eliminate a lot and probably kept enough pressure on Hussein that he had to focus his efforts on concealing production capability and scientific knowledge, not arsenals.\r\n\r\nthis doesn\'t seem like an issue to play politics over.\r\n\r\nWhat issue that effects people\'s lives is? But that\'s what happens.','2003-05-31 02:08:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3187,1,3555,'66.32.177.28','clue','clue@bcke.com','','My lord, just saw this on CNN.com\r\n\r\nDisarming Iraqi President Saddam Hussein\'s regime of suspected chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear weapons was a primary reason the Bush administration gave for launching the war. No such weapons have yet been found. \r\n\r\nDid I miss school the day where the administration informed us that Hussein was suspected of having radiological and (gulp) nuclear weapons? Somebody forgot to give me that memo?\r\n\r\nDid CNN get taken over by the restrained voices of Debka?','2003-05-31 02:19:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3188,1,3555,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Sorry...#1 was my #1 \"why Saddam would risk war to hide weapons he knew he didn\'t have...\"; sorry for the confusion...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-05-31 03:11:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3189,1,3555,'209.103.239.3','Fred Boness','fboness@excel.net','','So, what HAS Dr. Germ been up to? Was she no more than a sparkling dinner conversationalist to be at Saddam\'s right hand constantly?','2003-05-31 03:20:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3190,1,3555,'66.32.177.28','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Sorry...#1 was my #1 \"why Saddam would risk war to hide weapons he knew he didn\'t have...\"; sorry for the confusion...\r\n\r\nAh, much clearer. And a good question.\r\n\r\nI have three questions in return. \r\n\r\n1: What is the evidence that he was hiding something? \r\n\r\n2: How can there have been evidence that he was hiding something but yet, to date, nobody has found what he was hiding or where he was hiding it? One suspects the evidence of being largely anecdotal and not based on harder data, say surveillance or reconnisance. \r\n\r\n3: If he did have WMD to hide, what explains his failure to either openly declare and destroy them to prevent war, or to use them in battle to either make a heroic (in his mind) last stand or go out (in his mind) in a blaze of glory? \r\n\r\nI ask the questions, of course, because I don\'t believe that he would mislead the US into believing he had WMD without actually possesing them, either. But I don\'t see alternatives based on the predication of his posession of WMD as any less stupidly suicidal.','2003-05-31 04:07:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3191,1,3510,'68.22.242.91','Sage','baconfortress@ameritech.net','','Yeah, clue, and the Democrats are interested in taxing their way out of those same crises. That\'s why they\'ll get hammered on econmics. You can\'t spend WAY too much of someone else\'s moeny, then tell them that there\'s nothing for you to do but take still more of it--and promise not to overspend this time around. Those budget shortfalls can\'t be pinned on either party, and only solutions matter come election time. The really key point, though, is nationalism, which is at its strongest point in half a century.\r\n\r\nAs long as people like Chris Hedges are dong anti-American theatrics at graduation ceremonies, and Democratic voters dominate in the flag-burning department, that party is going to have a mighty difficult haul ahead. \r\n\r\nYou have to spend just a little time on a college campus to see how deep the intellectual rot goes. The view from the leftist brain trust (which, through graft and corruption, amounts to the entire American higher education system) is so steaming awful on defense concerns that the Dems are painted into a corner they can\'t get out of. Their strategy of funding people and institutions that despise American capitalism and military strength worked just fine as long as we never got attacked at home.\r\n\r\nWe did. And they\'re really f*cked now.','2003-05-31 04:07:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3192,1,3555,'169.237.24.241','FH','scbaird@ucdavis.edu','','Clue, I tend to agree with AL on this. Saddam had a program all right, but it was far less spectacular than most people believed. I also think that we(Bush, Blair and co.) \"knew\" this, or were fairly certain of it. Their plan to reshape the ME(yes, there is one, and is shaped by neo-cons) involved removing Iraq as a first step. To get Iraq out of the way, the US realized help from other nations would be really nice. This meant the UK in particular, with Poland and Australia helping as well. The problem is, Blair leads a party with strong socialist tendencies. This means he would have trouble going after Saddam unless he could get support from his party. So he and Bush went to the UN, and when the UN(lead by the axis of weasels) balked, Blair got the domestic support he needed. And WMD was the issue at the UN. Hence the trupming of WMD as the main issue.','2003-05-31 05:44:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3193,1,3553,'24.28.2.101','Matthew','portablematthew@yahoo.com','http://fearfulsymmetry.blogspot.com/','I\'ll start with a somewhat controversial proposition. When it comes to foreign policy -- and foreign policy only -- the majority of the \"right\" is in the political mainstream of the US, and the fringes of the right are becoming ever more isolated into obscure little camps. Imagining the \"left\" is perhaps more difficult than imagining the right because the left has so many facets. For starters, there\'s the intellectual left, which I would identify as Chomsky, Said, much of The Nation readership, most university professors and nearly all self-described left-wing authors. They are absolutely the kind of people who Joe is talking about in his post, the people who literally hate America first.\r\n\r\nAfter them comes the Social Democratic/liberal left, people who see America not as a contagion but as an experiment in governance, people who still lionize the New Dealers, and have faith in the ability of government to do anything, given enough time and resources. I\'d place Matt Yglesias, Thomas Friedman, and many other mainstream liberals in this category. For the most part, Joe\'s criticisms can apply to this cohort only in the sense that they hate American unilateralism and favor multilateral responses to a fault, which sometimes seems to suggest that America must be \"wrong\" if no one is standing by her.\r\n\r\nYet another facet of the left is the bureaucratic left; those self-styled progressives who still dominate in the State Department and many other government agencies. They tend to be philosophically shallow careerists, having spent most of their life in foreign service, and draw upon both the intellectual left and the Social Democratic left for their political inspiration. One thinks of Madeleine Albright, Richard Holbrooke, and the like (though not Sandy Berger, who is a Social Democrat). As far as foreign policy is concerned, these people form the bulk of the Democratic Party\'s brain trust, and they are often fond of making apologies for America.\r\n\r\nFinally, you have Democrats, who are not always liberal and are even less likely to self-identify as \"left,\" but who generally vote Democrat out of tradition, or because they hold a disfavorable view of business, believe the Republican Party to be racially insensitive, or because they have fond memories of government activism in years past.\r\n\r\nIn short, Joe\'s criticisms are best reserved for the intellectual left and those members of the bureaucratic left who put the programs of the intellectual left into action. From my readings, most Social Democrat/liberals aren\'t guilty of Ameri-skepticism/hatred in the same manner as the extreme left, but they are unduly credulous about the benefits of multilateralism. Rank and file Democrats, on the other hand, tend to be very positive about America and even bellicose in their foreign policy beliefs. How else are we to explain Bush\'s poll numbers? There aren\'t that many Republicans out there!','2003-05-31 07:15:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3194,1,3534,'206.190.18.213','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','I note no mention of America\'s drug war gulag.\r\n\r\nWe imprision people at a furious rate for using or distributing the wrong kind of drugs. Drugs that were at one time in America sold over the counter.\r\n\r\nAmerica has about 6% of the world population and 25% of the world\'s prisoners.\r\n\r\nThe system has many of the same features as the Russian gulag. It destroys families. It is an over all economic drain, but certain favored groups and individuals profit handsomely.\r\n\r\nNo one notices.\r\n\r\nWe are all good Germans or is it Russians here?\r\n\r\nDrug users are enemies of the state. Welcome to America.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-31 08:40:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3195,1,3534,'24.28.2.101','Matthew','portablematthew@yahoo.com','http://fearfulsymmetry.blogspot.com/','I just snagged Applebaum\'s book myself, after re-reading Kundera\'s The Joke, and I have to wonder what Applebaum herself wonders in the Introduction -- why is there no Schindler\'s List about the Gulag? Why is there no effort by producers of cultural products to remind us constantly about the lessons of the Gulag and the Great Terror the way we are (justifably) reminded of the Holocaust?\r\n\r\nI\'ve very much enjoyed the openness with which Chinese cinema has presented the evils of the Cultural Revolution. Ironically, these films are well-received by Hollywood. Could it be that Hollywood will only accept anti-Stalinist films from Russians and Europeans themselves?','2003-05-31 08:42:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3196,1,3510,'206.190.18.213','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','clue,\r\n\r\nThere are eddies in any stream. A certain movement that appears to go against the flow.\r\n\r\nWhen I say the question has been decided I do not mean to say that all vestiges of the struggle have disappeared. What I mean is that we have passed an inflection point.\r\n\r\nThere are many examples of what the future holds but let me talk Europe. The Germans know they can\'t grow their economy without cutting the strangle hold labor has on the economy. The French know that their pension funds are destroying their economy. Have they done much about it yet? No. The critical point is that they know the problem. Because of politics it will take quite some time to fix.\r\n\r\nBut. The hand writing is on the wall.\r\n\r\n','2003-05-31 08:52:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3197,1,3543,'136.216.75.6','Green Baron','greenbaron@hotmail.com','http://www.livejournal.com/users/greenbaron','This Republican is about to add Armed Liberal to his list of favorite liberal blogs, along with the War Liberal and Michael Totten.\r\n\r\nAs a Republican and someone who is still fairly conservative (I have a statue of Attila the Hun on my desk), I think people of all sides of the specturm, who are reasonable (that excludes the John Birch Society, Pax Christi, and Michael Moore) shoudl come together at the right times and while dsiagreeing on many issues (perfectly reasonable in a free society), we will coem together for a common cause. If Pat Schroeder teamed up with the Christian Coalition and Pat Buchanan joined the anti-war crowd or the Ralph Nader anti-globalization brigade, then Republicans and Democrats can team up, especially when this is about our nation\'s safety.\r\n\r\nI don\'t see the sensible Democrats and sensible Republcians merging. This would actually be bad and make us like the PRI in Mexico or the (US) Democrats or (Confederate) Whigs in Harry Turtledove\'s Great War series (I recommend anyone with an interest in alternate history read it). \r\n\r\nAs for the GOP\'s rise today, it is cyclical, mainly. From 1930-1994, the Democratic party had controlled the Congress for taht whole time save four years, so it would seem normal cyclically for the Republicans to have power in the US House for some time. The pendulum will swing time and again, but that\'s politics.\r\n\r\nI just hope the aftermath of all that is going on reverse the polarization in America that started with Kennedy\'s death and Vietnam. I regret my partisan views from my teens.','2003-05-31 09:06:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3198,1,3553,'68.186.206.56','Tatterdemalian','tatterdemalian@hotmail.com','','One lady I knew worked as a secretary for a Colonial Bank executive. One day she received a notice from the IRS, demanding that her boss pay $2.2 million in taxes; apparently he hadn\'t filed a single tax return for over thirty years. She phoned the IRS, to ask if they would like to set up an appointment with her boss, and they responded that they weren\'t interested in her boss. They wanted HER to pay the money that her boss owed, and threatened to have her jailed if she didn\'t.\r\n\r\nShe asked why they were demanding the money from her instead of her boss, and the reply was, \"Because he won\'t return our calls.\"\r\n\r\nSame mentality as Chomsky\'s, really. I still think of it as a fine example of typical bureaucratic idiocy.\r\n','2003-05-31 09:37:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3199,1,3532,'203.97.2.243','Wanderlust','shifting_paradigm1@yahoo.com','','\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
\r\nOnce upon a time, back in days of yore, military projects were smaller, and were \r\nspread across a varied and viable industrial infrastructure that was chock-full \r\nof ideas and innovation. While some might argue that smaller projects entailed \r\nhigher costs, I point out that if a weapons system was unsuccessful, or else \r\nfailed to live up to its advertised expectations, it could either be used for \r\nanother mission (a la F-111, which, as I recall, was originally planned as a \r\nNavy fighter as well as USAF, but grew too heavy for carrier ops), or else \r\ncancelled without a great deal of fanfare (a la AH-56, still one of the best \r\nhelicopters that never flew). Thems were the old days, though, and like all \r\nother history, are long gone.
\r\nNow that the Boeing/NorthGrum/LockMart troika rule aerospace procurement, and \r\naerospace weapons systems development project scopes have grown so large (and so \r\nvery, very expensive), these projects run the risk of sinking not only \r\nthemselves under their own weight, but also the sponsoring company, \r\ncongressional/senatorial districts, and the sponsoring service(s). You know the \r\nstory: every project is initially borne out of someone\'s idea of combating a \r\nstrategic issue. To gather momentum within political, military, and industrial \r\ncircles, the project sponsor makes promises that expand scope (and cost). Once \r\nthe project gets funded, the industrial partner attempts to build to scope while \r\nremaining within budget, while the military project managers demand additional \r\nscope without the budget to pay for it. If the project is "sold" well, project \r\nmanagers will cover scope creep by stretching the development cycle (even though \r\nthe AH-56 project was over budget and behind schedule, when has an air vehicle \r\nproject EVER fielded ten flying prototypes within three years of initial \r\nfunding, after 1968???). While development cycles are stretched, and flying \r\nprototypes are cut back, the military/political/industrial team fights ongoing \r\nbudget battles on the Hill and at the Pentagon to keep the project "sold". \r\nStretching development timelines increases obsolescence potential, especially \r\nwith electronics and software, causing the development budget to become further \r\ninflated by the fact that items developed at the beginning of the phase are \r\nobsoleted before initial units are fully tested. Meanwhile, to further cover \r\ninflated development costs, planners and politicians sacrifice production units \r\nin an attempt to "prove" that they reduced the overall project cost. Eventually, \r\nthe air vehicle gets fielded, and by the time it does, the infrastructure \r\nguarding its existence (and procurement funding) is so solid that strategy must \r\nbe re-arranged to fit the vehicle\'s capabilities.
\r\nOnce in a proverbial blue moon, someone comes along with an idea that is not \r\nonly technically feasible, but is also practical, cost-effective, and fits \r\nmilitary strategy solidly. Ususally such humans are weeded out of existence by \r\nthose who jealously guard budgets. Back in the old days, as such, there were \r\nenough weapons systems available to allow alternative uses if something didn\'t \r\nget built, or if it (once deployed) didn\'t meet original goals. Now, however, if \r\na weapons system development project fails, its failure is so large that it \r\nbrings down with it the contractor and tribal knowledge used to build similar \r\nsystems. Meanwhile, development cycles that once took 5-7 years now stretch \r\nbeyond 25.
\r\nFor example, if JSF development cycle gets stretched once F-16 reaches the end \r\nof its useful life, what will replace it? Ditto E/A-6B? Or, who can say with a \r\nstraight face that JSF can adequately replace A-10? If Comanche ever gets \r\ndeployed, given that its mission was originally intended combat high-technology \r\nSoviet AA radars on a European battlefield, what will its role be? With a \r\nreduced Russian air force, what will F/A-22 fight against? Bin Laden on a \r\nPersian flying carpet?
\r\nI don\'t have a spectacular resume like Skid\'s. Mine is littered with the detrius \r\nof spending other people\'s money, and includes a stint at a major aerospace \r\ncontractor, where I once had clearance. I purchased electronic equipment for an \r\nair vehicle in development, and recall fondly the military and industrial \r\npartners scrambling to cover their collective asses when the project was \r\nstretched without budget to cover IT obsolescence. Intel had given the military \r\nin general a collective thumbing back in the late \'90\'s when it stopped \r\nmanufacturing dedicated CPUs and other chips to military specs. So when the \r\ndevelopment timeline was stretched, and dollars to upgrade aircraft computer \r\nsystems dried up, there was a mad scramble to locate enough Pentium (not Pentium \r\nII, III, or IV) processors to last through air vehicle #89, now slated for \r\ndeployment in 2011. Remember, the Pentium CPU was brand new in 1995. They \r\nfinally found some sitting in a warehouse in the Far East. Also, if that \r\nparticular computer system is not upgraded, the systems contractor will have to \r\nbuild its own version of another important chip, no longer built by the \r\ncommercial sector. Unit costs for this chip as-built by the military contractor \r\nwill be tens of times higher than initially priced when the chip was being \r\nmanufactured commercially. Meanwhile, although plans continue to upgrade that \r\ncomputer system, as of late last year, those plans were funded only through \r\ninitial planning stages.
\r\nThere are PC software simulations available for aircraft such as F-22 and \r\nComanche. I used to joke to colleagues that the next version of those simulators \r\nshould not be ones that you fly; instead, the simulator is a project planning \r\nsoftware system such as MS Project: if you can build and deploy the aircraft \r\nwithin 25 years or less, you win! Your opponents are: your "co-opetition" \r\nindustrial "partners", other project managers within your own service branch, \r\npoliticians, and anyone else who suckles at the Federal Budget Teat for a \r\nliving. Can you beat the odds...?\r\nThe nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.\r\n\r\nGeorge Orwell\r\n\"Notes on Nationalism\", 1945\r\n
\r\n\r\nProve this quote wrong, not by offering an argument, but by your actions. Go through the archives of each of your respective weblogs, or in Mr. Katzman\'s case, go through winds of change.net\'s archives, and give us a reasonable ratio of the times you\'ve criticized or exposed the crimes of a US client state or ally, as well as highlighting US involvement in the crime and the US parties benefitting from the crime, compared to time you spent making similar criticism of a competitor of the US. \r\n\r\nMy guess is it is less than a one to twenty ratio. \r\n\r\nHow many times have you questioned US business profiting off of serious human rights violations? I’m not sure, but perhaps you think that United Fruit\'s ‘right’ to run a banana republic in Guatemala was saved because the first democratic government in Guatemala was coincidentally overthrown in a CIA supported coup circa 1954, and its supporters were coincidentally murdered in a policy of genocide carried out by Guatemalan soldiers, who were just coincidentally armed and trained by the US. Or perhaps it was another coincidence when Iranian parliament tried to nationalize British owned oil and the Iranian government was violently overthrown and replaced with the Shah of Iran who, according to Amnesty International, was the leading human rights violator of the era, along with his SAVAK police forces trained and armed by the CIA. The Shah ran the country for 25 years as an ally of the United States, until he was overthrown around the same year Saddam Hussein coincidentally used chemical weapons against Iran with US economic and diplomatic relations in good standing… this justified by the fact that Iran no longer wanted to live under US supported dictatorship, so their lives weren’t important enough to consider asking one of our clients to, uhh, kindly not use Chemical Weapons on them.\r\n\r\nSo I start with the 50’s, and we can come up with a lot of other similar crimes in other places on the globe. My guess is that we can learn a sad little of them in the archives of winds of change.net. That\'s unfortunate, because unlike Pol Pot, Henry Kissinger is still quite active and influential politically. His rap sheet includes bombing Cambodia and murdering thousands of civilians while US intellectuals looked the other way, authorizing Suharto\'s invasion of East Timor which resulted in genocidal levels of killing, again, with US intellectuals looking the other way, and supporting a coup in Chile which brought a Fascist dictatorship to power... \r\n\r\nIn fact, if I remember correctly, that happened on... September, was it the tenth? No.. it was the eleventh. September 11th, 1973. Now I remember! \r\n\r\nFunny, if I recall corectly Kissinger almost landed a job investigating the 9/11 terrorist attacks thanks to his good friend George W. Bush. Clever George sure thinks of nice anniversary gifts! *\r\n\r\nAnyway....That the US has had involvement in serious human rights abuses is a matter of public record, and not really something there is much debate about, either, so if your argument is going to be that we haven’t, I’d advise reading some of your own government’s documents. Here are links to some government documents at the George Washington University\'s National Security Archive \r\n\r\n\r\n* I wasn\'t sure if I should have used Kissinger\'s role in investigating 9/11 or John Pointdexter of Iran Contra fame being appointed over the agency that would monitor all of our email,phone, and web activity. I think Kissinger was more effective, tying one 9/11 terrorist attack with another, and all.','2003-06-01 07:41:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3229,1,3553,'172.130.54.150','marcus','lindenen@aol.com','','So I start with the 50’s, and we can come up with a lot of other similar crimes in other places on the globe. My guess is that we can learn a sad little of them in the archives of winds of change.net.\r\nI sincerely doubt Winds of Change.net was around in the 50s. Just an fyi. \r\n\r\nAlso, this is a blog, not an archive of the past century\'s many horrors. Indeed, no one here has even argued that the US has a spotless human rights record. You will be hard-pressed to find even one nation not splattered with blood. What has been argued however is that when examining human rights records around the world a disproportionate amount of the blame is placed on the US. We\'re a scapegoat in many ways. It is also the omnipotence/impotence divide: do something and you\'re an imperialist murderer, don\'t do something and you\'re an impotent as well as selfish imperialist murderer. I myself am a liberal and will even admit this is true. ','2003-06-01 08:14:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3230,1,3553,'12.249.42.123','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','Interesting that you bring up impotence and disproporationate blame...\r\n\r\nWhy shouldn\'t we take the power for somebody to do something into consideration when examining their actions? Certainly we ought to ask less of a small group of people than we should a country that spends more on its military than the rest of the world combined. \r\n\r\nIndividually speaking, the US government probably doesn\'t, itself, have a very spotty human rights record, at least relatively speaking. Saudi Arabia, Colombia, Turkey, and Indonesia, have awful human rights records, but another interesting statistic is that they\'re some of the leading recipients of arms and gfunding from the United States, which needs to be taken into consideration. So the US isn\'t violating human rights directly, but it wasn\'t always Nazis putting Jews in the Gas Chambers, it was other Jews... that doesn\'t mean we shouldn\'t hold the people who had them do it accountable.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-01 08:51:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3231,1,3561,'24.151.126.15','Jim Linnane','jalinnane738@earthlink.net','','Congratulations on a great catch! Too bad about the final score, though. And $35 (was that US or Canadian?) for a seat behind home plate sounds like an excellent deal.\r\n\r\nA few weeks ago the wife & I went to Fenway and paid $96 (US) for 2 seats in the left field grandstand. They were good seats, but hard to get. Last year a friend who has season tickets right behind home plate at Fenway lent them to me and another guy on a night when Pedro was pitching - it doesn\'t get any better than that!\r\n\r\nUsed to go to Fenway 2-3 times a year with my Dad, but it is not affordable now. I will not go to anymore Red Sox home games unless I get a deal.','2003-06-01 09:32:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3232,1,3561,'24.128.238.126','SageOne aka True Red Sox Fan','sager1219@attbi.com','http://sageone.blog-city.com','I am a Bostonian. Are you as well? Needless to say, very cool about catching the foul ball. I\'ve been close a few times, but no luck. I visit Fenway a number of times throughout the year, since my wife gets free tickets. I also can use my former Boston Globe connections for press passes and get in that way too. Though I am die hard Red Sox fan, I will not pay the outrageous pricings for tickets. I can justify the 22 bucks for bleachers and the 40 for grandstand. Anything more than that though is a bit much for my liking. I\'m going to syndicate your log and keep track since you\'ve posted something about the Sox on your site. I\'ll hope you do the same.','2003-06-01 14:18:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3233,1,3510,'207.237.122.44','Sam','Sam@hotmail.com','','Who was the last first-term president to preside over 4 years of net job losses, and was this president re-elected to a second term?','2003-06-01 14:26:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3234,1,3561,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Jays fan, actually, though Fenway does have the distinction of being the best baseball atmosphere I\'ve ever been in. The ticket prices up here are a lot cheaper, it seems. Sad to see baseball pricing itself out of the mainstream.\r\n\r\nSage\'s Matrix is a good site - thanks for bringing it to my attention.','2003-06-01 15:56:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3235,1,3556,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','First of all, great blog, with many great comments.\r\n\r\n\"The Tale of the Parrot\"\r\n\r\nI was hoping someone else would break the ice, but I guess I\'ll have to take a swing at it first.\r\n\r\nLevel One:\r\n\r\nThe cage: Not only does the parrot (TP) note he lives in a cage, but the cage is in a house, and the house is in Persia, a fair distance (especially in pre-modern times) from India. This signifies being thrice removed from TPs original home. Merchants offer of bringing a message to TPs relatives (TPR). The outward appearance of \"wellness\" is tempered by separation from home and family.\r\n\r\nLevel Two:\r\n\r\nHumanity is also separated from his/her (h/h) spiritual origins by several barriers. While material needs are met at several levels (food, shelter, enough wealth to keep and feed a pet, travelling long distances for trade) the spiritual needs of humans are lacking.\r\n\r\nLevel One:\r\n\r\nTPR: TP\'s message was interpreted by the relative as a call for help, TPR knew that a direct request for freedom for TP would be ignored, so an oblique demonstration was required. TPR reasoned that the merchant, since he carried the message in the first place, would relay the reply.\r\n\r\nLevel Two: ??\r\n\r\n\r\nLevel One:\r\nTP, realizing merchant\'s concern, repeats the relative\'s reaction, hoping to get the cage open as a first step towards freedom. The merchant complies, bringing TP to an open window, thinking the air would revive TP. Merchant is correct, but did not realize TP\'s desire to leave his comfortable home for the wilds of his natural habitat.\r\n\r\nLevel Two: When humans feel enclosed by cages and walls, no matter how much comfort is derived, the urge to escape (or the feeling of enclosure)is present, whether consciously or unconsciously. When the cage is openned (a sudden insight appears, via Scripture, words of a holy man, or from the subconscious) the spirit \"escapes\" its materially wealthy bonds to live in spiritual harmony, which, the teller of the tale believes is a better life.\r\n\r\n\r\nThis was a tough assignment. I\'m sure I\'ve missed a lot, but may have found a few nuggets. I hope we get more comments on this, because my curiosity is piqued.\r\n','2003-06-01 16:14:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3236,1,3553,'65.95.81.253','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Jonathan, you\'ve made your mindset abundantly clear, both in this thread and in the other. America as major force for evil in the world, while excuses or evasions are the order of the day for regimes like North Vietnam and the Khmer Rouge. It is the very essence of the INdecent, Chomskyite left. I don\'t accept or respect \"challenges\" from that perspective, any more than I\'d pay attention to a \"challenge\" from the leader of the Aryan Nation wondering why I don\'t devote enough coverage to the evils of the Jews.\r\n\r\nAbout the only things we seem to agree on are that the Saudis need to go, and the Indonesians are not to be trusted.\r\n\r\nWinds of Change.NET will continue to cover events from the eclectic perspectives our readers have come to expect: international events, liberty, science, cultural spiritual wisdom and trends from many different perspectives. We will not make phony efforts to \"balance\" equal coverage of America\'s evil\'s with the rest of the world\'s, but will pursue our own sense of the stories that are important wherever that leads us. Those who want to see a different kind of coverage or a very different perspective are welcome to suggest items to us, or write well-argued guest blog pieces for consideration... or to start their own blog.','2003-06-01 16:48:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3237,1,3555,'129.174.111.13','Steve','sda9@cornell.eduspam','http://www.ivorytower.hoosierreview.com/','I think A.L.\'s on the mark here--for both sides. Saddam\'s people blew stuff out of proportion to him, and then W.\'s blew stuff out of proportion to him. Not that W.\'s had the same incentive (torture) to exaggerate, but every member of a bureaucracy wants to give the boss what he wants. My guess is that facet of human nature was operating on all sides, kind of like a cascade.\r\n\r\nThat being said, I\'m still convinced he thought he had WMD. His actions simply make no sense otherwise. I have literally seen no rational explanation for his behavior for the last ~5 years that takes as a premise that he had no WMD.','2003-06-01 17:29:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3238,1,3555,'66.82.9.46','mike','mpeck1@ix.netcom.com','','Here\'s a *link* from today\'s Observer (UK) that indicates my suggestion that we might be sitting on evidence could be right (hope I did that html link thing right. If not, here\'s the money graphs:)\r\n\r\n\"Stung by claims that the Government exaggerated the threat from Saddam, Blair said he was waiting to publish a \'complete picture\' of both intelligence gained before the war and \'what we\'ve actually found\'. \r\n\r\nAsked if he knew things he could not yet reveal, he said: \'I certainly do know some of the stuff that has been already accumulated as a result of interviews and others... which is not yet public, but what we are going to do is assemble that evidence and present it properly.\' \"\r\n\r\nLink came via Rantburg.\r\n\r\nFrom the rest of the story it seems Tony Blair is under greater pressure to produce some evidence of WMD than Bush.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-06-01 17:32:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3239,1,3555,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','clue asks:\r\n\r\n1: What is the evidence that he was hiding something? Well, simply, his unwillingness to openly cooperate with the UN over a twelve-year period... \r\n\r\n2: How can there have been evidence that he was hiding something but yet, to date, nobody has found what he was hiding or where he was hiding it? One suspects the evidence of being largely anecdotal and not based on harder data, say surveillance or reconnisance. First, my point in the post was that he (Saddam) thought he had something he didn\'t. Surveillance would have shown behavior characteristic of having them, but the \'facts on the ground\' wouldn\'t have been there...\r\n\r\n3: If he did have WMD to hide, what explains his failure to either openly declare and destroy them to prevent war, or to use them in battle to either make a heroic (in his mind) last stand or go out (in his mind) in a blaze of glory? As I noted, he thought he had WMD; think of the cargo cult \'airplanes\'...why didn\'t they use them to fly to other islands? Because they weren\'t real...\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n','2003-06-01 18:24:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3240,1,3563,'67.75.43.159','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','Could a corollary also be made for the inequity of power distribution v.a.v our electoral choices? Without term limits, the concentration of that kind of power is not subject to true market pressure, either. \r\n','2003-06-01 18:28:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3241,1,3510,'208.187.40.94','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Randall,\r\n\r\n Your RINO/aging population arguement runs directly into the the 401(k) Mac truck. The investor class is made up of the very people who\'s investments are hurt by higher government spending. \r\n\r\n Your hispanic demographics argument falls apart on the face of two words -- \"Cuban-Americans.\"\r\n\r\n As Hispanics get more wealthy, they get more conservative, AKA Republican.\r\n\r\n So yes, \"Demographics Is Destiny.\" Just 180 degrees out of phase with what you intended.','2003-06-01 18:49:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3242,1,3563,'213.243.148.15','JH','jussimhamalainen@luukku.com','','Speaking of unequal distribution of wealth,could it be the result of the way that most societies tax creation of wealth so lightly?If I invest money in something,be it stocks or items of art or whatever,and the investment subequently rises in value,the profit will be completely mine.Most countries only charge some sort of \'sales tax\'(usually low) when those investments are resold.\r\n\r\nThis contrasts with the way most modern governments gather revenue - by taxing income.In Europe as in North America,the tax system is heavily weighted towards income,corporate income and capital gains taxes.Let\'s look for a fair system of taxation.Wouldn\'t it mean that wealth gains from the appreciation of property ought to be taxed with the same rate as income from \'services rendered\',be it work or interest on loans?\r\n\r\nIf one looks at the \"super-rich\" of the world,it is almost without an exception the case that the source of their riches is the appreciation of property value (usually stocks).Would a shift from taxing income to taxing wealth create a better society?\r\n\r\nOpinions please.\r\n\r\nPS.The above is in no way an endorsement of \'big government\' or class warfare.I\'m against tax progression in general.Spare the straw men.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-01 19:04:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3243,1,3553,'12.249.42.123','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','Very mature and decent, Mr. Katzman. I didn\'t expect you\'d take the \"challenge\". Your writings are morally bankrupt, obedient and unquestioning of something unjust, anti-humanity, and anti-liberty. In the logo of your website, it would seem you\'re making use of a little doublethink. Impressive. \r\n\r\nWe agree that Indonesia can\'t be trusted, as well as the Saudis. Or in other words, we agree that they\'re some of the leading violators of human rights on the planet. However, you lack the decency and intellectual honesty, maybe even the courage, to talk about the involvement of our government, whose leaders you elect and whose salaries you pay. You refuse to talk about WHY the US (illegaly) spends billions of taxpayer dollars propping up regimes such as these, and how US corporations profit from it.\r\n\r\nYou choose to not give information to Americans, who can then take that information and make somebody\'s life better because of it. And then compare me to a racist. Again, impressive. Model decency. \r\n\r\n(If I\'m wrong, change your mind, accept the challenge, and prove it.)\r\n\r\n\r\n\"I could never again raise my voice against the violence ... without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today: my own government.\"\r\n\r\nMartin Luther King\r\n\"Beyond Vietnam\", 1967\r\n
\r\n \r\nHe must have been another America Hater, that Martin Luther King, realizing and being able to honestly discuss the fact that the US is the largest exporter of arms to human rights violators across the globe. Wish he would have been more \"decent\" according to your standards, Mr Katzman. ','2003-06-01 19:21:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3244,1,3553,'64.206.90.149','Yar\'s Revenge','vengeanceisyars@lycos.com','http://yarsrevenge.blogspot.com/','It blows my mind when people\'s response to any sort of criticism or analysis of our country\'s less-than-honorable actions, past or present, is to say \"there you go again, calling America evil and letting all these other bad countries off the hook. Well, I\'m not listening...\" \r\n\r\nThis is truly indecent, because it is this attitude that will allow America to drift further and further away from its ideals, further and further towards something that will, one day, no longer be worthy of our admiration and pride.\r\n\r\nIf you love your country, shouldn\'t you want to hold it to high standards? Shouldn\'t you understand that by taking an honest look at our missteps, you aren\'t casting aspersions on America as a nation, or as a concept, but on the decisions of the people who, at the time, were in charge of the government? Can\'t you make that distinction? \r\n\r\nI\'m an American, I love my country, and you\'d better believe I\'m going to focus on what my government has done wrong in the past and what is doing wrong now. I want my country to live up to its ideals and be something I can always be proud of.\r\n\r\nDon\'t you dare tell me there\'s anything \"indecent\" about that. ','2003-06-01 19:22:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3245,1,3547,'198.26.123.36','Rifle308','Rifle308_76544@yahoo.com','','For what it is worth, a recent issue of Army Times had a short report on J. Lynch\'s brother visiting her. The story says she cannot remember anything of the ambush after an RPG hit the vehicle she was riding in. \r\nI understand the Army is trying to recreate the events of the ambush to figure out what did happen for \"lesson\'s learned\" purposes. ','2003-06-01 20:14:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3246,1,3510,'208.187.40.94','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Randall,\r\n\r\nThis was from the Donald Lambro link in the above post:\r\n\r\nThere is growing fear among Democratic strategists that George W. Bush is making gains in their party\'s base, especially with minorities and labor. If true, this could be the most important political sea change in America in 70 years.\r\n\r\nDonna Brazile, the black turnout specialist who ran Al Gore\'s 2000 presidential campaign, has been telling the Democratic National Committee and anyone else who will listen, \"don\'t take African-Americans for granted\" because their loyalty is eroding and Mr. Bush is courting them aggressively.\r\n\r\nA survey last summer by the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, which focuses on black issues, found black partisan identification with the Democrats declining. Only 63 percent of black voters now call themselves Democrats, down from 74 percent in 2000. Self-identified independents were up 20 percent. Ten percent now identify with the GOP, up from 4 percent in 2000, as I reported last year.\r\n\r\nNotably, internal polls conducted for the DNC in preparation for 2004, reveal similar signs of partisan erosion among younger black voters, a party adviser told me this week.\r\n\r\nThis slippage is even more evident among heavily Democratic Hispanic and Latino voters. Some 35 percent of all Hispanics voted Republican in 2002, according to postelection surveys. Gov. George Pataki of New York won 50 percent of their vote. Florida Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida won 40 percent. Texas Gov. Rick Perry won 35 percent against an Hispanic challenger.\r\n\r\nThis erosion in the Democrats\' base, plus increased Republican turnout of its own voter base, led to Democratic losses in governors and Senate races in Maryland, Georgia, Florida, Missouri, Minnesota and elsewhere.','2003-06-01 20:37:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3247,1,3553,'24.98.225.95','whats in a name anyway','nospam@here.net','','The \'root cause\' is either the big bang or the creation. Now that I\'ve identified it for you, can we go on? Or had you a plan for working on either of these?','2003-06-01 20:51:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3248,1,3564,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','A.L.\r\n\r\n\"And blindly smiling and waving flags when your country does something wrong is not an act of patriotism.\"\r\n\r\nIn my personal case, I did not engage in the above. It was my judgement, based on large quantities of information from various and diverse sources, that the invasion of Iraq was the correct course. \r\n\r\nBased on information that has come to light, it was the correct course. The current course of the \"peace\" is far less clear, and open to criticism from all sides.\r\n\r\nThe appearance was certainly given, and noticed by a majority of people in this country, that critics of a possible invasion of Iraq preferred to leave Hussein in place. While this point was marginally debatable before the war, evidence that came to light during/after the initial battle phase removed any logical reasons to support the premise that Hussein should not have been toppled. Critics who have not repudiated this argument give the appearance of siding with a brutal dictator against the US. How could they not be viewed as \"unpatriotic\"?\r\n\r\nIt also didn\'t help that the anti-war movement was coordinated by extreme Leftist/Marxist organizations that explicitly announced their contempt for the US and its form of government, before, during and after the war.\r\n\r\nI don\'t so much feel as if I was more \"patriotic\" by supporting the war, but felt the opposition displayed contempt for the US govt and the suffering of the common Iraqi people.','2003-06-01 21:08:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3249,1,3564,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Phil, in the specific case, I\'ll point out that I\'m a *liberal hawk*...in this case, after a lot of thought, I decided to support the Iraq war...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-01 21:20:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3250,1,3563,'12.239.211.18','KCat','KCat@kippercat.net','http://www.kippercat.net','JH:\r\n\r\n\"If I invest money in something, be it stocks or items of art or whatever,and the investment subequently rises in value,the profit will be completely mine.\"\r\n\r\nIn the US, the profit is taxed as a capital gain. You have a capital gain when you sell a capital asset for a profit. Any asset you hold as an investment (stocks, bonds, real estate, artwork, for example) is a capital asset.','2003-06-02 00:14:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3251,1,3563,'12.221.104.43','Annoying Old Guy','aog@thought-mesh.net','http://blog.thought-mesh.net','JH;\r\n\r\nI\'m not sure if it would create a better society, but I\'m sure that it would create a poorer one.\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n\r\nYes, I believe that \"trust busting\" was an ill-conceived, counter-productive action and that the country would be better off today if there had never been any anti-trust law. Here\'s how it works:\r\n\r\n1) If you sell for less than your competitors, you\'re dumping.\r\n2) If you sell for more than your competitors, you\'re gouging.\r\n3) If you sell for the same as your competitors, you\'re colluding.\r\n\r\nMoreover, anti-trust efforts certainly didn\'t significanly reduce the wealth of any of the rich it alledgedly targeted (one of your key goals) and has been used far more as a political weapon than an economic fairness one.\r\n\r\nI\'m not a fan of Microsoft but one notes that the anti-trust case against it was driven essentially by (1) resentful competitors and (2) money hungry attorneys. One notes the conspicious absence of any significant representation of the alledged victims. Beyond that, Microsoft managed to get off with basically a slap on the wrist. And on top of that, Microsoft, which previously had shared a a single K-street guy in Washington DC, now has an entire phalanx of them, buying legislation. In terms of preventing the consolidation of economic and legal power the Microsoft action made things worse. How can this not be considered an abject failure all around? Except of course for people like Joel Klein who used it to become famous.','2003-06-02 00:22:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3252,1,3553,'171.159.64.10','copithorne','copithorne@hotmail.com','','\"A handful of Americans died, and few Iraqi civilians were killed, other than by falling Iraqi ordinance.\"\r\n\r\nThat\'s the amazing thing to me about people who support the war. They talk about \"supporting the troops.\" But the lives of American soldiers are cheap to them. Absolutely disposable in fact. \r\n\r\nHere are some of the lies by the major liars as cited by today\'s Washington Post. \r\n\r\nOn Aug. 26, 2002, Vice President Cheney told the VFW National Convention: \"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.\"\r\n\r\nOn Sept. 12, 2002, Bush told the U.N. General Assembly: \"United Nations inspections also revealed that Iraq likely maintains stockpiles of VX, mustard and other chemical agents, and that the regime is rebuilding and expanding facilities capable of producing chemical weapons.\" \r\n\r\nOn Dec. 2, 2002, White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said Hussein would be \"misleading the world\" if he denied having the banned weapons. A month later, on Jan. 9, Fleischer asserted: \"We know for a fact that there are weapons there.\"\r\n\r\nIn Bush\'s State of the Union address on Jan. 28, he cited evidence that Hussein had enough materials to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin and as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agents. \r\n\r\nSecretary of State Colin L. Powell, in the same speech to the U.N. on Feb. 5 in which he discussed evidence of the mobile weapons labs Bush referred to last week, argued: \"We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, he\'s determined to make more.\" \r\n\r\nA month later, on March 7, Powell told the United Nations that Hussein has \"clearly not\" made a decision to \"disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction.\"\r\n\r\nIn his Feb. 8 radio address, the president asserted: \"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have.\"\r\n\r\nOn March 30 on ABC News\'s \"This Week,\" Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said of the prohibited weapons: \"We know where they are. They are in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.\"\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-06-02 01:04:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3253,1,3553,'171.159.64.10','copithorne','copithorne@hotmail.com','','I was asked a question:\r\n\r\n\"Tell me. Do you believe that because then-Governor Bush declined to add a symbolic slap on the wrist to a death penalty, that he somehow approved of the pickup truck lynching?\"\r\n\r\nNo. This is just more daydreaming to avoid responsibility for your complicity in killing American soldiers. ','2003-06-02 01:09:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3254,1,3564,'165.247.41.155','Sam','samcalvin47@hotmail.com','http://www.kapshow.com/newcities','Worse than just isolating the left, it paralyzes it. People will forgive a lot of foolish talk from someone who is doing something useful, but the crisis of the left is a product of all talk, no action. Fundamentally, both of the parents you describe seem to experience love as mostly talk: adulation or blaming, it is not the same thing as involvement and guidance.\r\n\r\nThe left that views its whole purpose as explaining how everything is \"our own fault\" is fundamentally depressed and paralyzed. Yes, our government from its inception has fought for certain things and not for others, protected the interests of some and ignored the suffering of others.\r\n\r\nBut this is not \"us.\" The populace is not the same as the goverment: we need to be clear about this in order to move past this confusion. We can love or hate the U.S. Goverment, we have to live and work with the populace. The left needs to stop holding America at arms length and start figuring out how to be a part of it.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.kapshow.com/newcities','2003-06-02 02:37:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3255,1,3555,'65.27.184.129','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com/','AL: Your theory is similar to this one.\r\n\r\nI have absolutely no doubt the government thought he had an active program that he wanted to use against us. Ask Clinton -- he said as much, repeatedly. ','2003-06-02 03:36:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3256,1,3564,'12.249.42.123','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','See, now that is something I can agree with, and a criticism I have made, not just of the left, but all intellectuals. The goal of an intellectual outside of any official academic setting, should be to further understanding about the truth among non-academics...so the people. But the goal of an intellectual who wants to make an impacting change on people, should not only be to further understanding... because not everybody is a history buff and not everybody has a the desire to spend their time in strictly book/newspaper type learning environment...but to further understanding in a way that will allow a person to change their actions in order to make their lives better, more humane, or more just. For the most part, my criticism has dealt with how intellectuals interact with others who aren\'t intellectuals. The general elitist attitude, being argumentative and trying to prove you\'re right, turns people away. Writing filled with jargon and words that have no use in every day speech, nonsense talk about political theories, isms and what not, is, simply, irrelevant to most people, and is for sure boring the shit out of them. The left should especialy be ashamed of their failure to reach the working class, because they claim to represent them. \r\n\r\nWhat this has to do with criticizing your own country, before you criticize Russia, is that Russia, or politics, diplomacy, war, foreign policy or other national affairs are something most people can only really experience through intellectuals, either the ones who write the books, the essays, or in the media. We live in America. The people around you, your friends, neighbors, and co-workers, they all live in America. They care about America, and not some monolithic national entity, but the America they live in, work in, participate in every day. If you\'re communicating to them, communicate to them about America, in a way that they can relate with their every day experiences. In their every day lives, Americans have a potential to act in such a way that defines American life, based on the knowledge they have, this includes how America interacts with the rest of the world. In one word, practicality. Knowledge about the nature of institutions they participate in every day, rates far higher on this scale, than knowledge about Russia which they can only experience indirectly. Of course, I feel this way because I believe it is important to actually interact, if I wanted nothing but to have an exclusive intellectual circle jerk I might find it important to waste my time talking about countries and governments I have no possible way to interact with and effect directly.\r\n\r\nAnd finally, if you acknowledge that there is the US government, and the powerful, and then there is the American people... do you also acknowledge that this is a failure, and not how it is supposed to be? Doesn\'t that make the imperative clearer? Americans need to understand the society they live in so they can actually have a say in their own government. Talking about Russia\'s crimes instead of the crimes that happen with their support and taxes, alienates people from politics, because Russia can only really be dealt with through the official government, but that\'s the purpose. All of the great propagandists know that dissent is killed when the people fall in line and unite against an outside enemy.','2003-06-02 04:00:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3257,1,3564,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Jonathan, let me add one key point to your interesting comment. There is an issue of \'standing\'. When I was a young Vietnam war protest organizer, the VVAW (Vietnam Vets Against the War) had extraordinary standing because they had been there. \r\n\r\nWhen I hear the tiresome litany of \"Vietnam, Guatemala, El Salvador, imperialism, etc. etc.\" from someone who makes no effort to frame it in any context (Latin America in the destructive Latin heritage and the actrive competition between the Left and Right in each country, etc., etc.), and more, when I see it from someone whose *associations* are cosmopolitan rather than national, I don\'t give much standing to the criticism, and I\'m a liberal. How well do you think it goes over in Peoria?\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-02 04:16:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3258,1,3564,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Four key points I\'d like to make.\r\n\r\nFirst point: I see completely agree with A.L.\'s parenting formulation. I\'ve seen both kinds of parenting. I\'ve seen both kinds of policy. Both are disastrous, and I was very clear that uncritical support is not what is called for. \r\n\r\nSecond point: What I\'m addressing is, I believe, an important \"root philosophical cause\" of the abusive dynamic A.L. describes. Understand it, understand its consequences - and the causality chain that leads to this \"abusive parent\" dynamic breaks. Perspective is restored by seeing America in context, and concrete action that extends beyond America reinforces a sense of both balance and engagement with (not against) mainstream society. That\'s the goal. When it is achieved, liberals and conservatives will still see these issues differently, but it won\'t be such a corrosive difference.\r\n\r\nThird point: This isn\'t about Iraq. Iraq is not germane to the arguments I was making in \"The Left\'s Excuse\", except to the extent that it may furnish illuminating examples of a specific meme at work and its consequences.\r\n\r\nIt\'s entirely possible to seriously examine and even agree with the issue in \"The Left\'s Exscuse\", and be AGAINST the war in Iraq, because one has seen the results of this meme turn the anti-war movement into something categorized even by prominent leftists as a pro-Saddam movement. Which it accomplished by presenting a picture of people absolutely willing to catigate the USA and absolutely unwilling to carry even a single sign demanding human rights in Iraq, or cooperation and compliance with the UN resolutions, etc. etc.\r\n\r\nWhy? Because \"we can\'t change/ affect Saddam.\" \r\n\r\nSorry, that excuse (which has been used many times, in many situations) is inadequate, immoral, and politically fatal. It\'s also untrue - indeed, it is designed to prevent serious thought about the levers that do exist. THAT, and not any one example, is the point of my argument.\r\n\r\nNow, why should liberals care? This is just a fringe Chomskyite argument, right? Unfortunately, with Dean, Pelosi, Kuchnich, Bonior, McDermott et. al. visibly signing on to and supporting the anti-liberation demonstrations referenced above, the stain did indeed tarnish the Democratic Party and mainstream liberalism. Look at the polls on national security and the 25-40% trust gaps. That\'s not PR, not an illusion, and not something the Republicans could have created by themselves even if they wanted to. \r\n\r\nThe Democratic Party did this to itself. It behaved its way in. If it addresses the meme, it can behave its way out. Addressing Jonathan\'s paralyzing \"can\'t do anything, not worth trying\" meme head on may be the best and fastest route available. Failure to address it means PR and window dressing, that don\'t really change belief or actions at the grassroots level. Which would mean that the public perceptions and problems continue. A parent who doesn\'t see what they\'re doing as abuse, or doesn\'t see how their belief in \"discipline\" is corrupting more important values, can\'t really make a genuine, sustainable change.\r\n\r\nOnce upon a time, \"Republican\" was nearly synonymous with \"isolationist.\" Not any more, and largely because the key meme of \"entanglement abroad threatens us, while disengagement will spare us problems\" is dead, dead, dead outside of Pat Buchanan and his small coterie (now under sustained attack from the neoconservatives). 9/11 took another hammer to this meme... how many readers had that particular change in belief change much of the way they see the world, and even their behaqviour and engagement with politics post-9/11? Quite a few war-bloggers I know. A change in just one key meme can be very, very powerful.\r\n\r\nFinal point: The issue of standing. Standing requires credibility. In the thread concerning the Russia-Turkmen deal, Jonathan [1] blames the USA, entirely, for \"genocide\" in Indochina; [2] makes not a single mention of incidents like Hue, or other wrongful conduct by the North Vietnamese - all the West\'s fault; [3] ignores the Khmer Rouge. This is not, to me, a person or a viewpoint with any legitimate standing. I might as well listen to the Aryan Nation rant about the Jews, it would be equally productive and equally credible. So kindly spare us the \"I just want to engage Americans\" and \"furthering the goal of truth\" speech - I don\'t believe a word of it.\r\n\r\nThere\'s a glimmer of truth in the argument of intellectuals needing to be engaged, but it cannot, will not, and should not be taken seriously if the intent of the engagement is abusive, or hateful, or dishonest. Calpundit is none of these things. Yglesias is none of these things. Jonathan is apparently all of them, he is not by any means alone, and the core meme that justifies his view (and lets commenters like InFill in \"The Left\'s Excuse\" shrug at Mugabe\'s conduct and contend it should not be of concern) is both widely shared and widely damaging to the liberal side.\r\n\r\nRemoving Jonathan from the body politic is not an option. Engaging and destroying an unsound and immoral meme that provides both intellectual cover and a linchpin for his arguments, is.','2003-06-02 05:55:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3259,1,3564,'12.249.42.123','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','Somebody who makes arguments out of context, needs to learn how to better make arguments. It\'s a matter of skill and training, not a matter of whether they\'re wrong or right, justified or unjustified. \r\n\r\nAs to you being a liberal -- The New York Times is pretty liberal as well. If youre anything near an NYT style liberal, it wouldn\'t surprise me that you get uncomfortable talking about very real cases of US imperialism... you shop at the gap and bernini, for christ\'s sake. Without the benefits of US dominance their summer and fall line ups would just be atrocious. ;)','2003-06-02 06:04:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3260,1,3564,'12.249.42.123','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','Katzman,\r\n \r\nYou\'re taking comments out of context... we never even discussed Khmer Rouge, or my position on the atrocities of North Vietnam. North Vietnam came into existence, as an independent body, a decade into US policy in the region on independence. They didn\'t exist and weren\'t fighting the government in Saigon until after the US established itself in the region. So in the context of the actual discussion about US Imperialism, what the NLF did didn\'t come up. You have no idea about my opinions on the matter so quit pretending you do. As for Khmer Rouge, I don\'t willingly discuss Khmer Rouge partly because there is absolutely no shortage of people willing to talk about the crimes of official US enemies. You prove this...and you don\'t talk about US involvement in crimes in any reasonable proportion to the number of times you help the US demonize official enemies for crimes that US elites otherwise support and profit from when commited by clients or allies, which again, I don\'t see you criticizing.\r\n\r\nI did a little search on windsofchange.net... curious I didn\'t find any pages containing the word \'suharto\', which is funny because he was involved in a genocide which your tax dollars supported and whose spoils fueled the car you drive to work rather cheaply.\r\n\r\nI\'ll make you a deal and learn a little bit about Khmer Rouge, if you turn around and do the same for something that should be entirely more relevant to any decent American: where their tax dollars go and where their high standard of living comes from, and at who\'s expense. ','2003-06-02 06:26:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3261,1,3564,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Jonathan -\r\n\r\nYou\'re making a fairly classic \'dumb leftist\' argument which I\'ll reject out of hand as something I dealt with in my undergraduate days; that the reason we in the West have our stuff - oil, Gap and Bernini clothes - because we\'ve brutally extracted them from the Third World, and that if we weren\'t so selfish/blind/immoral, they\'d have it all too.\r\n\r\nI\'ve got to tell you that extractive colonialism as practiced throughout human history reached a peak with European colonialism in the 18th and 19th centuries; the Congo comes immediately to mind. \r\n\r\nSo in the sense that the surplus resources that fueled the Industrial Revolution were extracted from colonies, there may be something to talk about. \r\n\r\nBut late-industrial economies make those kinds of colonies uneconomic, which is why everyone got shed of them in the 20th Century (and coincidentally, everyone got enlightened and guilty about them as well). So we have a mercantile system instead.\r\n\r\nNow it is possible to imagine that our \'stuff\' is somehow stolen from everyone else, but that\'s a pretty 19th century view of things. The reality - sadly - is that most of the undeveloped world lives pretty much like humans always have, with marginally better health care and much better guns.\r\n\r\nThere are huge issues involved in our support of kleptocracies in extractive countries - where taking control of the country means being able to sell oil, or diamonds, or bauxite, and keep the cash in Switzerland.\r\n\r\nBut the \'crimes\' you describe are a) hundreds of years old; and b) not too dissimilar from the crimes committed by societies throughout human history. I wasn\'t aware that Western society had somehow repealed the laws of human nature. I am damn interested in figuring out how to make our society better, but orbiting in tight circles around contextless \'crimes\' doesn\'t really get me too far.\r\n\r\nAnd, since I\'m obviously as incapable \"making better arguments\" as you are of understanding history, I won\'t waste any more of your time - or mine - in discussion with you.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-02 06:45:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3262,1,3564,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','In a comment that dealt with genocide in Indochina, no less. I think that pretty much says it all, myself.\r\n\r\n\"J: You\'re taking comments out of context... we never even discussed Khmer Rouge, or my position on the atrocities of North Vietnam...\"','2003-06-02 07:02:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3263,1,3564,'12.249.42.123','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','Because there was another genocide Katzman, and and it was by the French, with forced starvation as just one of many methods used to quell a popular movement for colonial independence, which began with a declaration that contained the same language as the declaration of independence written by Thomas Jefferson: \r\n\r\n\r\n\"All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.\" \r\n
\r\n\r\nThe US helped the french supress this rebellion. The US financed nearly the entire project. Then when the French couldn\'t hold it together, the US escalated and got involved directly, and dropped more bombs on a third world country than all of the bombs dropped in World War II. It used chemical weapons and cluster bombs, which claim victims to this day. The US attacked food supplies, not only in Vietnam but in Laos and Cambodia. The US military claimed the lives of millions, in order to impose on a country a government the people clearly did not want. \r\n\r\nI was talking about that genocides, because you flat out refuse to.\r\n\r\n\r\nArmed Liberal, \r\n\r\nthe sum of your argument is that the US no longer uses military force to exploit the third world, to maintain friendly governments, or to impose regimes who commit human rights violations with impunity because they offer easy access to cheap labor or resources. This is patently absurd, to the point of being comical. Can I hear you say one more time that these things are of the 19th century?\r\n\r\nContextless crimes is mentioning any crime in the forum we\'re in. You want to discuss a crime in detail, the comments section of a weblog is not the place to do it. That that is your best criticism thus far, is also comical. I appreciate you taking the time to amuse me.','2003-06-02 07:24:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3264,1,3564,'12.249.42.123','Jonathan','jonathan@thinkerforum.com','http://www.thinkerforum.com','Who was it that said a liberal is only a power worshipper that lacks power? I hope you don\'t mean armed in the conventional sense. eek.\r\n\r\nIt was a pleasure, gentlemen. ','2003-06-02 07:31:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3265,1,3564,'66.59.138.198','Jim','jimmylevendia@hotmail.com','','Boy, who ever said religion was in decline? Looks like the fanatics just reorganized under other names: leftists, socialists, progressives, \"thinkers\", et al. God (or \"History\") forbid that they would ever admit anything that would harm their worldview. The American workers crassly prefer more more consumer goods rather than revolution; ergo, they are now \"oppressors\" (\"They\'re ignoring US\") and we must put our hope in the oppressed of the Third World, where the West robs the poor oppressed populace of their machine tools, their Lexus\'s and their laptop computers to increase its own standard of living. Ignorant peasants of the world unite! You have nothing to loose but your lattes! Don\'t worry, Jonathan, \"The Revolution is Coming\"...when Satan skis.','2003-06-02 15:06:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3266,1,3553,'12.15.133.9','james','james@iconics.com','','The United States of America has done some truly horrendous things in its past. \r\n\r\nThe United States of America has done some truly heroic things. \r\n\r\nBoth statements are absolutely true. For some reason, there are individuals that are only willing to acknowledge the truth of the first statement. Unfortunatly, these individuals are unwilling or unable to apply the same set of standards to the actions of other countries. They demand a level of perfection that is humanly unattainable. This, while simultaneously justifying the horrendous actions of others. Even when these actions are current rather than historical. All this while refusing to acknowledge any current good deeds or good intent on the part of the United States.\r\n\r\nIt is this double standard that has become associated with the ideologies of the left. This needs to be addressed. ','2003-06-02 16:27:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3267,1,3553,'216.20.115.117','Dan','dansomone@yahoo.com','','This is truly amazing to me. I live in MA, right near Boston. I worked in Bob Reich\'s campaign for gov here, I\'ve worked with many peace and justice groups, as well as health care and other \"leftist\" causes. I have yet to find one person who \"hates\" America. \r\n\r\nI have found many people who want to IMPROVE America. I\'ve found people who want America to stop supporting \"allies\" that have horrible human rights records (objectivley pro-boiling, anyone?). I\'ve found people who hate the fact that large corporations have spent the past decade escaping paying taxes. Or people who hate the fact that the CEOs of large tabacco corps went up and lied before congress. I\'ve even found people who hate the fact that the Iraqi death toll is higher then the death toll from the 9/11 WTC terrorism.\r\n\r\nI\'ve also found people who work at places like \"Seeds of Peace,\" who believe that ending terrorism will happen through understanding, not through bombing. I\'ve found people who volunteer for \"food not bombs,\" who believe that the gov\'t spends far too much on military needs, and not enough on domestic needs.\r\n\r\nThere are a few, a very few left leaning intellectual who tend to see bad things happening where ever America steps in. Of course, just to cite one example, a few days after Tianamen Square, Henry Kissinger was writing about how we should ignore gross human rights violations becuase, well, China is a great business oppertunity... and then going to China five months later with AIG to negotiate expanded business there. So maybe they don\'t \"hate America,\" maybe they hate betrayals of the core American values of human dignity and poltical freedom by those who are supposed to treasure it most? \r\n\r\n','2003-06-02 16:33:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3268,1,3564,'12.15.133.9','james','james@iconics.com','','Passed wrongs does not mean that the US can not do the right thing today. \r\n\r\nShowing a historical wrong does not mean that we should ingnore current wrongs done today.\r\n\r\nMoral standards that are not applied equally are not moral standards.\r\n\r\nIn the past the United States had slavery and massacred an indigenous population. This should not prevent the United States from seeking to prevent anyone from doing such actions in the future. Some are demanding that the United States not seek to stop current atrocities, because the US is not morally or historicaly pure. ','2003-06-02 17:00:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3269,1,3564,'134.114.14.144','Lancer','lance.blyth@nau.edu','','Interesting discussion, but it seems that the basic disagreement is one of dates.\r\n\r\nFor The Left the seminal and terminal date is 1968.\r\n\r\nFor Liberals the important date is September 11, 2001.\r\n\r\nGiven the immense historical differences between these two dates, \"never the twain shall meet!\" The two sides are simply talking past each other since they have two different points of reference.','2003-06-02 17:19:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3270,1,3565,'204.128.232.211','Mike Connor','go_nd@yahoo.com','','If the Moro Islamic Liberation Front wants me to be scared, they should come up with a name that doesn\'t turn into such a comical acronym.','2003-06-02 17:20:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3271,1,3555,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Robert Crawford:\r\n\r\nGood point- why is it that the \"WMD Hoax\" crowd doesn\'t consider that? Is that \"ancient history\", and, as such, not worthy of consideration?','2003-06-02 17:31:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3272,1,3556,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Phil, that was outstanding. There\'s always more to be found in a Sufi tale, but this was a great start.\r\n\r\nTo build on Phil\'s comments about the way the Parrot\'s family helps the Parrot, it\'s been pointed out to me the the teaching was wholly indirect, by story and example, in order to create a behaviour in the Parrot that would give him an opportunity to be free if he chose to take it. That\'s very Sufi, and also a good reminder that much of a real teacher/guide\'s teaching is through example and conduct not words.\r\n\r\nAnyone else out there with some thoughts?','2003-06-02 17:45:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3273,1,3553,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','A little late, but here it is anyway:\r\n\r\nMatthew:\r\n\r\nWhat if there really ARE that many Republicans in the US?','2003-06-02 17:56:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3274,1,3365,'66.109.105.52','celia','penchita9@cs.com','http://Hi!',' Sorry that this had to happen to and not to me. Well g2g now\r\n\r\n bye always celia ramirez','2003-06-02 18:44:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3282,1,3526,'216.17.147.99','robi','r@robisen.com','http://robisen.com','Xavier your write \r\n\r\n\"Insufficetly sensitive:\r\nWhat about the other countries? Do you really think they\'ll sit down and permit the Americans to update their capabilities without response? \r\nThe world won\'t trust American intention and won\'t be complacent while the American develop technologies than can clobber it.\"\r\n\r\nThe thing is.. this has actually been going on for decades (I mean the policey to control space and thats part of what Space Command was setup to do). Other countries have seen what was happening and several times European, Asian, and the UN have actually tried through policy and polotics to control US hegemony in Space but failed.\r\n\r\nAs for the Wolrd trying to counter US control of space.. they wont do it via technology because they simply can not afford to. They will continue to do what they have before and what has continued to fail which is trying to control US space power via poloitcal means.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-02 19:44:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3283,1,3564,'66.32.177.28','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Now it is possible to imagine that our \'stuff\' is somehow stolen from everyone else, but that\'s a pretty 19th century view of things.\r\n\r\nLooking at the amount of 3rd world cheap labor and natural resources that the first world, let\'s say \"utilizes\", would you characterize that relationship as satisfactory to all parties? If not, than put it on a map somewhere between \"fairly traded\" and \"forcibly extracted\".\r\n\r\nThe reality - sadly - is that most of the undeveloped world lives pretty much like humans always have, with marginally better health care and much better guns.\r\n\r\nThis is an argument for what? The same reasoning could be applied to any chronic condition--high infant mortality, say, or high crime in the inner city. \"It\'s just the way it\'s always been.\" \r\n','2003-06-02 20:20:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3284,1,3564,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','clue -\r\n\r\nWell, a classic critical analysis of international trade would suggest that \'unequal terms of trade\' means there can never eb \'fair trade\' between the developed and undeveloped world...I find that to be an uninterestign analysis, since it by extension suggests that there is really no such thing as fair trade at all, since the terms of trade between any two parties almost always suggest some inequality.\r\n\r\nI\'m actually dinking away at a blog post on this...it\'s a really significant question.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-02 21:02:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3285,1,3563,'207.245.113.120','Undertoad','undertoad@cellar.org','http://cellar.org','It\'s true. A free marketplace never guarantees perfect operation; in fact, it will almost certainly produce a wide range of results, including failures.\r\n\r\nThose failures are painful because they have real human consequences; people are forced into change, sometimes painful change. Heck, in the old days, people would starve.\r\n\r\nBUT, the market also produces enormous economic growth through encouraging innovation, good logistics, increased production, etc. etc. In the long run, that growth solves even the biggest problems.\r\n\r\nSo it\'s a tough question: how to fairly prevent the hardships of failure without preventing the productive rewards? How to reduce the pains of failure without reducing the productive motivation to avoid it? How to establish guidelines without preventing productive risk?\r\n\r\nI\'m not sure, but of one thing I\'m certain: anything that pushes back against market forces, instead of using them, is swimming against a strong river current and probably doomed.\r\n','2003-06-02 22:14:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3286,1,3567,'207.168.128.11','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Darn, you mean just when I get done reading on so many other sites that the US is just plain evil, wicked, and nasty, we do something nice just because its the right thing to do? Wow. Thanks.','2003-06-02 22:36:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3287,1,3565,'216.17.147.99','Robi','rsen@robisen.com','http://robisen.com','I actually have been keeping a list of titles about MILF. If you read them altogether it provides some good comic relieaf','2003-06-02 23:00:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3288,1,3565,'216.17.147.99','Robi','r@robisen.com','http://robisen.com','Here is something worth reading!\r\n\r\n*Wolfowitz Highlights Saddam Hussein\'s Terrorist Links*','2003-06-02 23:01:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3289,1,3565,'66.32.177.28','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Interesting reading:\r\n\r\nPW: I mean, without that perception of\r\nthreat, I don\'t believe the President would have considered it something that American lives should be risked for, as terrible as the\r\nregime is\r\n\r\nSo does this mean we can disregard the currently favorable post facto reasoning that Hussein\'s brutality and mistreatment of his own people was justification enough for a war to remove him?\r\n\r\nPW: There were 15 NATO nations on our\r\nside and France had Belgium and Luxemburg and Germany with it, in what seemed frankly like a rather cynical disregard of facts and disregard of the suffering of the Iraqi people.\r\n\r\nBut why should the President of France have considered the \"suffering of the Iraqi people\" as something that their own citizen\'s \"lives should be risked for, as terrible as the regime is\"? And Wolfowitz sportingly acknowledges a \"range of views\" regarding both Hussein\'s WMD and ties to terrorism.\r\n\r\nPW: In fact, let\'s be clear, if you read Bin Laden\'s proclamations, the thing that he most complained about was the presence of American forces in Saudi Arabia as part of the containment of Iraq. So that I believe is progress also -- that the Saudis have no longer have to carry the burden of large American forces on their territory, bombing Iraq almost daily, to support a containment policy that was failing.\r\n\r\nAnd, of course, we addressed bin Laden\'s primary complaint. Happy birthday, OBL! The Infidels have left the holy land! (Of course, now we\'re parked right on the Shi\'a holy land, so let\'s see if a new crop of wannabe Shi\'a bin Ladens pop up. If they do, where do we go next? Turkey?)\r\n\r\nOh, but what did Wolfowitz say to justify the headline (written by the State Dept, mind you): Wolfowitz Highlights Saddam Hussein\'s Terrorist Links?\r\n\r\nSecond was the Iraqi connection with terrorism, about which there is a range of views, although everyone agrees that there is a connection there.\r\n\r\nReally? Everyone? News to me.','2003-06-02 23:40:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3290,1,3534,'204.155.16.72','Chrees','condrieu@yahoo.com','','I\'m a little over halfway through the book... excellent all the way through. There seems to be a constant thread in some of my recent readings, about how thin the veneer of civilization truly is...','2003-06-03 01:24:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3291,1,3569,'65.27.184.129','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com/','Ideally, the machine thief \"keeps\" only the portion of taxes the business owner and employees pay to keep him in prison.','2003-06-03 04:15:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3292,1,3556,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Joe- Thanks for the comments.','2003-06-03 17:01:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3293,1,3570,'67.75.31.106','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','We have two distinct kind of opponents; those that should know better because they, too, are ostensibly free, and those who are bound by dictators who subjugate either by brute force or messianic enthrallment. We need to ignore, benignly, the former, and battle, ferociously, the latter. \r\n\r\nWe also need to develop the ears of a mother who knows the difference between when her children are just screaming harmlessly or when they are in pain. For the former, selective deafness is best; for the latter, swift action is needed. \r\n','2003-06-03 17:10:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3294,1,3562,'64.101.208.209','Annoying Old Guy','aog@thought-mesh.net','http://blog.thought-mesh.net','Absent new laws, what exactly can the RIAA do to us that\'s Orwellian? Their vision depends entirely on new legislation, such as that mandating anti-piracy hardware. Without such law, there will be plenty of manufacturers putting out hardware that avoids content management.','2003-06-03 19:38:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3295,1,3562,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net/','This can be accomplished in many ways, legislation being just one approach. As for your assertion that alternatives will spring up, you\'re not taking into account the potential of a \"Microsoft strategy\" that forces the hardware to be in place or content won\'t play.\r\n\r\nAs for the \"Orwellian\" aspect of all this:\r\n\r\nRIAA has gone after backbone Internet providers, invaded P2P networks, and sponsored bills that would allow them to hack your PC. The consistent trend is toward a strategy of \"sniffing, surveillance, and legalized attack\" which reaches beyond even the extinction of \"fair use\" and the public domain. See our CIVIS: Copyright Wars category archive for more.\r\n\r\nThink about it. A pervasive system that looks at digitally transmitted content and filters based on required codes can filter a lot more than just copyright.','2003-06-03 20:19:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3296,1,3569,'4.46.18.219','Donovan Janus','donovan@dajanus.com','','Why is the question complicated? Assuming that the workers do not have to work harder, I see no reason why the enterpreneur can\'t keep the extra 100 pins. A good entrepreneur will do profit-sharing down the line anyway, and it is better for the workers if the entrepreneur can keep a competitive advantage than for the business to shut down and the workers to lose their jobs because of a) a competitive disadvantage b) premature profit sharing and not having enough money to invest when necessary.\r\n\r\nEntrepreneurs have, other than paying a decent living salary and providing a stable and safe working environment, no responsibility to have their workers profit from their investments unless it substantially changes the workers\' jobs, in which case it is up to the workers to either renegotiate their salaries or to find another place of employment. \r\n\r\nFound a semi-related joke this morning. \r\n-------------------------------------------\r\nFrom:\r\nwww.lonestarcoffeebar.com\r\n\r\nThe Ant & The Grasshopper\r\n\r\nAmerican-style:\r\n\r\nCLASSIC VERSION:\r\n\r\nThe ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks he\'s a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed. The grasshopper has no food or shelter so he dies out in the cold.\r\n\r\nMORAL OF THE STORY: Be responsible for yourself!\r\n\r\n\r\nUPDATED VERSION:\r\n\r\nThe ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks he\'s a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving.\r\n\r\nCBS, NBC, and ABC show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food. America is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so? Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper and everybody cries when they sing \"It\'s Not Easy Being Green.\" Jesse Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant\'s house where the news stations film the group singing \"We Shall Overcome\". Jesse then has the group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper\'s sake.\r\n\r\nAl Gore exclaims in an interview with Peter Jennings that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and calls for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his \"fair share.\" Finally, the EEOC drafts the \"Economic Equity and Anti-Grasshopper Act,\" retroactive to the beginning of the summer. The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the government.\r\n\r\nHillary gets her old law firm to represent the grasshopper in a defamation suit against the ant, and the case is tried before a panel of federal judges that Bill appointed from a list of single-parent welfare recipients. The ant loses the case. The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant\'s food while the government house he is in, which just happens to be the ant\'s old house, crumbles around him because he doesn\'t maintain it.\r\n\r\nThe ant has disappeared in the snow. The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the once peaceful neighborhood.\r\n\r\nMORAL OF THE STORY: Vote Republican.\r\n\r\n---------------\r\n','2003-06-03 21:32:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3297,1,3550,'64.132.227.65','KevinM','kmunden@atec.com','','The orginal PDF can be found at:\r\n*HERE*\r\nit\'s the first report of many such\r\n\r\nA professional assessment from Cordesman, Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS): \r\n\r\n*HERE*\r\nit\'s quite extensive','2003-06-03 22:41:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3298,1,3570,'68.35.28.36','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','To continue MBear\'s analogy, we also need to recognize or dispute whether they are our children, or merely truants and scapegraces running amok in the neighborhood. How a neighbor might enforce restrictions on unacceptable behavior is different than how a parent might do so. But for the US to take responsibility for all of its indirect influences on the rest of the world is both unrealistic and logically defective. Having international veto over US policies leaves these international agents with the latitude to hide behind national sovereignity when they desire, while assymetrically constraining the US.\r\n\r\nIn other words, hegemons are dominant powers because they are not constrained. But if they are to be constrained, they must be constrained by countervailing strength, not by unilateral weakness.','2003-06-03 22:54:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3299,1,3568,'165.224.148.243','Omnibus Bill','omnbsbll@aol.com','http://www.crimen_falsi.blogspot.com/','Thanks for the hits, boys. I still haven\'t had any trolls pop up in the comments on that one... which sort of surprised me. But then I haven\'t checked the email since ya linked it. Oh well, the least I can do is blogroll ya for it. Consider yourself rolled. \r\n\r\nCheerio. ','2003-06-03 23:03:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3300,1,3570,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','It is very simple. We will be safe at home or we won\'t be. If we aren\'t, we will rearrange the world until we are. We have the power to do so. We did not start doing so until we were attacked at home.\r\n\r\nThose who fear American exercise of power have two basic options: oppose our use of power, ineffectually or otherwise, or make it unnecessary.\r\n\r\nThe ones who choose the latter are, if not our friends, at least not our enemies. Those who choose the former are definitely not our friends given that we only started to exercise that power due to being attacked at home. They might graduate to the status of enemies if they try hard enough.','2003-06-03 23:10:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3301,1,3572,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','A.L.\r\n\r\nDemocrats are starting to sound like religous zealots, which does have its place and time. But it sure sounds like they have hitched their wagon to the wrong mule this time.\r\n\r\nDo people that support the war sound like that to the anti-war crowd? I\'d like to think that we don\'t, but who can be objective about their own feelings?? \r\n\r\nIs there anyone on this planet that can speak objectively?? If there is, would partisans of any stripe listen??\r\n\r\nPolls, at this time, support the pro-war position. In the 90s, didn\'t the Democrats live and die by the polls? What\'s different this time?','2003-06-04 01:08:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3302,1,3570,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','\r\nMuch of the world distrusts and fears the US because of our strength, and what we might do with that strength.\r\n\r\nIt seems we have been stong (or viewed as strong) since the end of the Spanish-American War, the Great White Fleet, etc. This appearance of strength has not been continuous (isolationism before the WW I, and to a lesser extent before WW II, and various times since.\r\n\r\nIs there a correlation between US weakness and major wars/attacks on the US? We were also viewed as weak by OBL before 9/11.\r\n\r\nSo far, after battles in Afghanistan and Iraq, the US is viewed as strong once again, and the only terrorist attacks seem to be limited to a small area, as opposed to worldwide in the run up to 9/11 (USS Cole, Kenya embasy, Khobar Towers, etc)\r\n\r\nI submit that the world is a more peaceful and safer (relatively) when the US is viewed as strong.\r\n\r\nAny comments??','2003-06-04 01:24:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3303,1,3570,'138.133.17.5','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','As I noted, Phil, I think the art is in being seen as being \'strong enough\'. To the extent that we get intoxicated with our power - and I think that\'s a real risk - we wind up in Paul Kennedy\'s imperial overstretch. To the extent that we\'re seens as pusillanimous, people who measure themselves by strength will decide that fighting us is a good idea.\r\n\r\nI like the notion that Puff The Magic Dragon needs to be seen as having teeth and claws...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-04 01:29:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3304,1,3570,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','A.L. Right- It seems to me that most of the US ( I\'m referring to the population)generally wants to be left alone, and it take a lot to get us riled up. But once we switch to aggressive mode, there is little that can stop us. Will the US ease off when we perceive we are safer?? Or will the \"blood lust\" carry us into the \"imperial overreach\"? IMHO-yes.\r\n\r\nBut as they say, lets see what happens.','2003-06-04 01:51:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3305,1,3570,'172.150.142.142','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','Khobar, Kenya, and the USS Cole all took place in the majority Muslim world. The only difference is that the terrorists were fools and targeted civilians this time. We\'ve no idea if they\'re in the US and just waiting.\r\n\r\nI posted a link to this on a friend\'s blog a few days ago. This is the response I got:\r\n\r\n\" Calling it a Theory of Everything is a bit of ironic self-mockery, of course. There\'s nothing really revolutionary or new about his theory (although it may be new to the sort of people who were puzzled by why \"they\" hate \"us\" in the first place). \r\n\r\nBut what bugs me about Friedman is the way he can somewhat coherently state the criticism of the US but he doesn\'t really buy it. \r\n\r\nThis guy loves globalism -- I mean, he literally wrote the bestselling book on it, it\'s like globalism is his personal brand or something. He sees it as progress and can\'t admit that, at best, it\'s an inevitability, at worst a tragic mistake. And he understands why other countries wouldn\'t like an American hegemony over the world, but since he believes that hegemony is benign he doesn\'t get it that there is something inherently unjust about a system where the US has the bulk of the power and the rest of the world only gets to kibitz from the sidelines. It is unjust the way slavery is unjust, or the disenfranchisement of women. But he only asks how the US should \"manage\" this situation, not what a just international order would look like. \"\r\n\r\nI can\'t roll my eyes far enough back in my head.','2003-06-04 01:53:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3306,1,3570,'172.150.142.142','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','A.L., it\'s funny you mentioned Paul Kennedy\'s book, I told him he should read it.\r\n\r\nImperial Overstretch is my worst nightmare. Just how big is the military budget becoming?\r\n\r\nAlso, Phil, I completely agree that the majority of Americans would just like to be left alone. The strangest thing about 911 to my mind is how many people who seem to be in denial about that day. After Pearl Harbor were there so many who believed we \"deserved\" it? The response from people in Europe and the far left is mind-boggling imo. What would it take to knock them back into reality?','2003-06-04 01:58:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3307,1,3572,'172.150.142.142','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','You should have just said \"Without those lights, I\'ll die.\" \r\n\r\nThis reminds me of the bitch in the SUV who told my friend she shouldn\'t smoke because it pollutes. The anti-smoking fascism makes me want to start smoking.','2003-06-04 02:04:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3308,1,3570,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','linden:\r\n\r\nGreat questions-\r\n\r\nWhat would it take to knock them back to reality?--a Democratic President would do it. Then the question would be-what happens after the next attack? OBL and his ilk read the papers, and would certainly have reason to doubt any Democrat\'s resolve. What would the current critics of the war say then??\r\n\r\n\"Why can\'t we all just get along??\" (Rodney King)','2003-06-04 02:06:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3309,1,3570,'172.150.142.142','lindenen','lindenen@aol.com','','What would it take to knock them back to reality?--a Democratic President would do it.\r\n\r\nBut that would just be petty partisanship. What will convince them and change their minds? They would just claim he was acting Republican again.\r\n\r\nThen the question would be-what happens after the next attack? OBL and his ilk read the papers, and would certainly have reason to doubt any Democrat\'s resolve. What would the current critics of the war say then??\r\n\r\nThat we incited it by not prostrating ourselves before OBL and Hussein in asking for forgiveness. We brought it upon ourselves by invading Iraq, Afghanistan...','2003-06-04 02:11:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3310,1,3572,'68.32.175.138','Omnibus Bill','omnbsbll@aol.com','http://www.crimen_falsi.blogspot.com','I\'ve ridden in the LA area. You take your life into your own hands. \r\n\r\nOn the other other hand, the fact that lane splitting is allowed and encouraged by the CHP does make the commutes fun and fast. \r\n\r\nGood call on the headlight modulator, BTW. Professor Harry Hurt would certainly approve. I understand they cut down on the dreaded \"I didn\'t see him so I turned left killing the biker\" accident, which was the most common two-vehicle crash in the Hurt study. ','2003-06-04 02:13:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3311,1,3572,'63.166.226.90','inkgrrl','kari@inkgrrl.com','http://www.inkgrrl.com/inkblog.htm','See, that\'s where the platypus-mounted death ray comes in handy.','2003-06-04 02:58:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3312,1,3573,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','This isn\'t unheard of, and is almost to be expected in starvation situations. Widespread, credible reports of this practice in Mao\'s China finally surfaced during the 1990s, a byproduct of both the famines and the fanaticism that accompanied his \"Great Leap Forward.\" There are similar reports from the Ukranian famines that Stalin perpetrated.\r\n\r\nGiven the deliberately callous policies adopted by South Korea with respect to North Korean refugees, I must say that I won\'t feel a bit sorry for them if their eventual reunification process is a generation-long national hell.','2003-06-04 04:56:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3313,1,3571,'68.62.130.159','Robin Goodfellow','aeglos@dualboot.net','http://aeglos.blogspot.com/','The airforce doesn\'t like the \"artillery\" or ground support missions, because they\'re not sexy. I\'ve looked at the plans they have for close air support and bombing, they\'re sad, very sad. The B-3 is a joke compared to the bomb trucks capable of flying around the world like the B-1, B-2, and B-52 (it is planned to have less payload capacity and less range). And if I\'m a grunt on the ground facing heavy armor I\'d rather have a GAU-8/A with several tons of ammo on the other side of the radio rather than just a few hellfires or JDAMs. The A-10 is an armor killing monster, the Apache is merely an armor killing animal, the JSF has armor killing functions. Which would you want on your side?\r\n\r\nPerhaps more importantly, which would you rather have developed into next generation systems which would be even more capable than their last generation? Would you want to upgrade strike fighters to match the capabilities of helicopters, or would you want to upgrade the A-10 design and role to exceed all past ground attack capabilities?\r\n\r\nIf you want my opinion the job of ground attack should be given over to the Army, and the airforce should be dedicated to achieving air superiority. Either that or a lot of high level generals need to get a dent in their asses to get them to realize that running bomb dump trucks and dedicated ground-attack planes might be unsexy but it\'s a cornerstone job of air power in the modern military.','2003-06-04 05:05:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3314,1,3567,'152.163.253.3','Jeffery','jeffj408@aol.com','','The aids virus , and healing ; first seek ; the Lord ; and give him the glory for your healing;\r\nCURSE the aids virus , by speaking to the body\r\nand giving the command for the blood to be clean\r\nfor the hemoglobin ; in THE NAME OF JESUS ;\r\nTHEN LOSE YOUR healing into the blood system;\r\nfollow all Drs orders tell released from care\r\n \r\n THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS\r\n \r\n \r\n Jeff , editor','2003-06-04 07:27:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3315,1,3567,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Jeff\'s advice sounds nutty on first reading. It may not be, as long as people follow that last sentence about \"follow all doctor\'s orders...\" um, religiously.\r\n\r\nVisualization has been shown to be helpful against cancer cells - if prayer works for people as a way to lead them there and connect with a larger source of meaning, great.\r\n\r\n(Sorry, can\'t resist this one...) So Jeff, I assume this advice remains valid for gays, yes?','2003-06-04 07:38:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3316,1,3574,'216.26.4.28','Michael J. Totten','michaeltotten001@yahoo.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','I never get to read about the Stans. Yes, by all means, tell me what\'s going on in the Stans.','2003-06-04 07:54:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3317,1,3570,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','\r\nPhil said:>>>\r\n ...\"Or will the \"blood lust\" carry us into the \"imperial overreach\"? IMHO-yes.\r\n\r\nI meant to say \"No\"-US will NOT go into \"imperial overreach\" Sorry for the late correction.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-04 11:21:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3318,1,3570,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','lindenen\r\n\r\nBut, what are they waiting for?? There are more than enough reasons to act. Could it be that they have seen what\'s happened to Hussein and the Taliban and are not so enthusiatic to go to Nirvana any more?\r\n\r\nI don\'t believe this 100%, but greater than 50%.','2003-06-04 11:26:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3319,1,3571,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Robin: Amen!!','2003-06-04 11:29:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3320,1,3570,'208.20.220.69','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','The disjunction between how we would like to be seen and how we are seen is captured in Phil Winsor\'s statement:\r\n\r\n--- Much of the world distrusts and fears the US because of our strength, and what we might do with that strength. ---\r\n\r\nThe key term is might do.\r\n\r\nMilitary analysts use the word \"threat\" to describe a possible adversary\'s capabilities, without reference to his intentions. If our intentions were as bad as many of the world\'s horror regimes, we\'d use our fantastic power to make ourselves slaveowners over the whole world. Hell, if our intentions were even as bad as those of the Chirac Administration, the world would be in for a very rough ride.\r\n\r\nSince there is absolutely no chance that America will ever deliberately diminish herself militarily just to make other regimes comfortable, all we can do is promote our intentions. This will be a matter of both words and deeds, and the congruence between them.\r\n\r\nJust now, the protestations of a few Old European powers notwithstanding, we\'re doing well at it. Not perfectly, but well. Keep your fingers crossed that we continue to do so.\r\n','2003-06-04 15:41:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3321,1,3573,'208.20.220.69','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','I renew my prediction that, barring a sudden failure of will in Washington, by New Year\'s Day the Kim Jong Il regime will be only a bad memory.\r\n\r\nIt\'s tragic that we have to topple a tyrannical government in this fashion. Had we acted before the North Koreans could credibly claim to have nuclear weapons, this could have been avoided. As matters stand, it\'s the best solution available, even though millions will suffer horribly before the denouement.\r\n','2003-06-04 15:45:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3322,1,3570,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Francis:\r\n\r\nWell said. \r\n\r\nDespite my disagreement with the Democrats, their rhetoric is a necessary weight on the scales of justice. Too much weight on either side is bad, but Democrats view the swinging of the pendulum away from their cherished views as unstoppable. While this scenario is possible, I judge it as doubtful. After all, look at the firepower the Right has had to overcome to start getting the scales to tilt the other way-In 1992, the Democrats had the Presidency and both Houses of Congress, along with a stranglehold on the Media. If the scales tip too far from balance, forces will act to correct the imbalance. (We all fervently hope)\r\nI think we have seen this happen over the last 10 years.','2003-06-04 16:06:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3323,1,3573,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Francis:\r\n\r\nI don\'t think NK possession of nukes made much of a change- the deciding factor was the proximity of Seoul to the DMZ meant that any war, unless started by the US with nukes dropped on NK artillery emplacements, would have killed millions and crippled SK\'s economy\r\n\r\nHowever, I would not bet against you.\r\n\r\nJoe:\r\n\r\nDid SK have much choice in the matter? How many times did NK attempt to infiltrate sabateuers (sp?) into the South?','2003-06-04 16:23:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3324,1,3570,'193.60.129.71','John F','farren_john@hotmail.com','','I shouldn\'t think \"imperial overstretch\" is a serious problem at the moment. The US budget for 2003 spends about 3.3% of GDP on the military.\r\nIIRC, the comparable figure for the British Empire in 1937 was around 5%.\r\n\r\nAs the US appears able at present to balance increased commitments in Iraq etc with reductions in Europe, the situation is hardly dire.\r\n\r\nWhat might be a problem is if deficit financed tax cuts fail to reinvigorate the economy, and produced long term structural deficits if the US is unwilling to reduce total govt. expenditure. Similar to the Reagan deficits Paul Kennedy was concerned about.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-04 16:45:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3325,1,3572,'63.166.226.83','Stephen','stephen@shadowshow.net','http://slapthemonkey.blogspot.com','I commute from Long Beach to Agoura Hills. For those of you not familiar with Los Angeles it\'s an ugly ~60 mile drive. I frequently take PCH. AL, you have my sympathies. Every day I see situations where people are not thinking, not paying attention. I do it myself some times. More than I care to admit, I\'m sure.\r\n\r\nThere\'s a saying that goes, \"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.\" Though this could certainly apply in this situation, I don\'t think it\'s entirely true. Though stupidity certainly causes so many problems, I think that a more likely reason, especially in the case of this woman, and many others, is that people tend to be highly self focused but not very self aware. I think we all exist in our own bubble from time to time, some more than others.\r\n\r\nIt is this inconsiderate egotism, I think, that is more of a root cause of, not just what you ran into, but so many other situations. Watch people in a mall some time. Or talk to them about their politics. NIMBY-ism, one of California\'s favorite pastimes, is a great example. So is voter apathy, or the \"Oh, it can\'t happen to me\" attitude. And then there\'s the one most heard in Hollywood. \"Don\'t you know who I am?!\"\r\n\r\nI don\'t believe that, for the most part, people are stupid. A lot of them don\'t bother to think, though. And that\'s where this comes in. If that woman, for example, stopped to consider that there might be a reason for your headlights flashing besides trying to give her a headache, she might not have said anything. \r\n\r\nOn NPR last night, heading home, I listened to an article by an author, who had been receiving emails from students assigned his books as homework asking what they were about. It was nice to hear that his responses boiled down , \"Dunno. Tell me when you figure it out.\" It was sad though. Sad in that it underscores how much we, as a people, aren\'t trained to think for ourselves. I wonder, did that woman think much about her position on war before she put her \"No Blood For Oil\" sticker on her car? If war was not the answer, what was? Did she bother to consider that? Or was she too tied up into thinking she was the center of the universe?','2003-06-04 17:01:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3326,1,3572,'146.153.144.33','Bob Hawkins','bobhawkins@rcn.com','','I live on the other coast. A classic Cambridge, Massachusetts sight is someone in a car held together by the Peace&Love stickers, screaming obscenities at a parent who isn\'t herding the toddlers through the crosswalk fast enough. Probably making the driver late for a Save the Children protest.\r\n','2003-06-04 17:17:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3327,1,3553,'208.223.195.2','Anticipatory Retaliation','bravoromeodelta@yahoo.com','http://AnticipatoryRetaliation.blogspot.com','These are the kinds of things that do grate on my nerves. \"I\'ve even found people who hate the fact that the Iraqi death toll is higher then the death toll from the 9/11 WTC terrorism\"\r\n\r\nFirst of all, I\'ve seen no factual evidence to back this claim up, anymore than I\'ve seen evidence to support the Iraqi information ministry\'s claim of a million dead from sanctions or that hair-brained notion that 100,000 Iraqi soldiers died during the first Gulf War.\r\n\r\nSecondly, S. Hussein axed about (very roughly) half a million of his own countrymen. That breaks down to, what, an average of roughly 20,000 per year. The most recent war killed approximately one tenth as many people as Hussein manages to wax in a year.\r\n\r\nWhen you folks who start telling me that the war shouldn\'t have been fought because it hurt Iraqi civilians seem to be quite content with Iraqi civilians being killed by Iraqis, I become confused. Heaven ever forbid that thousands of Iraqis get killed and hundreds of thousands are saved.\r\n\r\nWhat special kind of madness is this that makes it alright to kill Christians who are killing Muslems (Kosovo), looks for \"root causes\" apologies for Muslims killing Christians (9/11), or simply nods with approval whem Muslims kill Jews and Christians (suicide bombers) and then finds it despicable that the Christians kill Muslims in order to prevent more Muslims slaughtering each other?\r\n\r\nIs there some sort of \"Get Out of Perdition Free\" card that Muslims are given when they kill each other? Are the brown people of the world to be exonerated if they whack each other right, left and center, but we\'re the bastards if, in the process of stopping wholesale slaughter, some people die?\r\n\r\nTell me it isn\'t so. Tell me about the marches to protest the human rights abuses in Sudan. Tell me about the recent clamor to get the US involved in the Congo. Or at least refresh my memory about how we stepped in the middle of the Rwanda genocide. Tell me about how you\'re not going to get involved in the moral calculus of saying 5 Iraqi civilians killed by US troops is an even match for 50 or 500 killed by Iraqi soldiers. And then square that with the Kosovo war.','2003-06-04 17:29:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3328,1,3572,'138.133.17.5','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Stephen -\r\n\r\nYou\'re exactly right (and have my sympathies for having my commute but doing it in a car!); the issue I\'m noodling on is the ... thoughtlessness? ... of the position, and more, the willingness to take on the \'trappings\' of a position without doing the heavy lifting of actually having the position.\r\n\r\nI talked about \'standing\'; I once did some business with a community activist who ran a nonprofit hosuing organization. My respect for him (and willingness to give him things he wanted in a negotiation) skyrocketed when I discovered that he had started and lived in a limited-equity cooperative - thereby personally forgoing hundreds of thousands of dollars in profits that he could have made (italics erroneously left out in 1st version).\r\n\r\nSimilarly, when I see progrssive activists who internalize their ideals ... who act peacefully, who are aware of the contradictions in a \'No Bloof for Oil\" bumpersticker on a car ... my respect for them and willingenss to take their positions seriously also rises.\r\n\r\nA.L. - whose household has a 25mpg minivan, and who commutes on a 40mpg motorcycle','2003-06-04 17:29:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3329,1,3570,'68.35.28.36','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','Comparisons with the British Empire pre WWII are difficult. Most of the British colonies were \"self financing\" and raised territorial troops and taxes to run the country without much input from the UK. I.e., the Indian Army in WWII was the largest volunteer army in the world, and this army was able to keep order up till 1948 even when London was doing its best to undermine British political suzerainity over the subcontinent. The current US situation in even Iraq isn\'t going to be self financing, and will be open ended as was the Palestine Mandate for the UK post WWI, and the situation in the Balkans is even less self supporting.','2003-06-04 17:41:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3330,1,3571,'67.75.43.158','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','It\'s been patently obvious for years that the A-10 is basically a flying tank; therefore, assigning it to the Army makes a whole lot of sense! \r\n','2003-06-04 18:04:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3331,1,3570,'208.223.195.2','Anticipatory Retaliation','bravoromeodelta@yahoo.com','http://AnticipatoryRetaliation.blogspot.com','From 1989 to 1999 worldwide, the percentage of GNP spent on military expenditures dropped from 4.7% to 2.4% (the share of military expenditures as a percent of central government expenditures -CGE - fell from 16.9% to 10.1%). Similarly the number for the US fell from 5.5% to 3.0% (and ME as % of CGE fell from 25.5. to 15.7).\r\n\r\nWhat does this tell us? We spend more, proportionately on defence than most folks - not a surprise. Particularly when viewed as a portion of CGE - again, not a surprise, since the US doesn\'t spend nearly as much on social programs and healthcare as do other nations.\r\n\r\nWhat is actually significant, however, is that the portion of GNP spent on military expenditures has fallen over the last decade. This runs directly contrary to Kennedy\'s central thesis.','2003-06-04 18:29:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3332,1,3579,'131.17.129.22','J S Allison','johnalli@swbell.net','','It would also be nice if we could point to our track record which on the hegemonic scale is pretty darned benign, screeching moonbats notwithstanding.','2003-06-04 19:40:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3333,1,3571,'198.26.123.36','J S Allison','johnalli@swbell.net','','I\'m in favor of splitting up the Air Force so as to leave the fighter generals all alone with their cute little pointy nose fuel burners. Recast the Defense Department as the Navy Department and the War Department and get those yoyos back under some adult supervision.','2003-06-04 19:49:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3334,1,3570,'138.133.17.5','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','It would be great if folks would post links or sources for their stats; that way we can all go dig around...\r\n\r\n...just a thought.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-04 19:53:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3335,1,3572,'131.17.129.22','J S Allison','johnalli@swbell.net','','Sounds like the idea that one should be able to have handed to them a \'good self image\' rather than crafting it one day at a time is predictably bearing it\'s wilfully arrogant fruit.','2003-06-04 19:55:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3336,1,3570,'208.223.195.2','Anticipatory Retaliation','BravoRomeoDelta@yahoo.com','http://AnticipatoryRetaliation.blogspot.com','My numbers are from the US State Department, Bureau of Verification and Compliance report \"World Military Expenditures and Arms Transfers 1999-2000\" and can be found in Table i*here*.\r\n\r\nIf you care to really dig into the numbers, take a look at China\'s increase in military expenditures, drops in both North Korean GDP and military expenditures, as well as regional trends in the Middle East. The inability of those folks to generate economic growth may have nothing to do with anything other than their insistence on arming themselves to the teeth.','2003-06-04 20:15:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3337,1,3571,'64.101.208.209','Annoying Old Guy','aog@thought-mesh.net','http://blog.thought-mesh.net','Isn\'t the essential problem that Army is not allowed to fly fixed wing aircraft? It would seem that relaxing that would solve the problem.','2003-06-04 20:27:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3338,1,3550,'208.223.195.2','Anticipatory Retaliation','BravoRomeoDelta@yahoo.com','http://AnticipatoryRetaliation.blogspot.com','IF you want a genuinely WOW weapons system, the *small diameter bomb* (SDB) is the one that astonishes me no end. It is a 250 lb bomb with the lethality of a 2000 lb bomb. Hence you can start doing things like the bastard offspring of carpet bombing and precision bombing. A B-2 is set to carry from 64 to 192-216 SDB on a single sortie - that\'s right, from 64 to 192-216 targets on a single sortie. An F-22 will carry up to 8.\r\n\r\nSo, let\'s say that this munition gives planners the ability to hit roughly 8 times as many targets per sortie as we can now. During the 1991 Gulf War each carrier hit an average of 162 targets per day. By Operation Enduring Freeedom this number has risen to roughly 700 targets per carrier per day. (*SOURCE*\r\n\r\nThis should give, approximately, up to another 8-fold increase inside of 5 years. That\'s right, each carrier could hit as many as 5600 targets in a day. By way of comparison, the heaviest day in Gulf II was 1,200 targets in a day. When planners spoke of shock and awe, they had originally envisioned something like hitting 10,000 targets on the first night. That may soon be possbile.','2003-06-04 20:33:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3339,1,3562,'64.73.73.18','SparcVark','lanzknecht@hotmail.com','',' I feel like I owe you a comment here, Joe.\r\n\r\n RIAA\'s actions are part of what I see as a philosophical disconnect that a lot of other parties share - they are unable to accept that there are things they cannot control.\r\n\r\n Pirating music is theft. It costs artists and labels vast sums of money. I know people who have huge music libraries for which they haven\'t paid a dime, people who have $400 to blow on an iPod but who \"can\'t afford\" CDs. I actually agree with RIAA that piracy is wrong.\r\n\r\n But stopping it is beyond RIAA\'s power. It\'s beyond Microsoft\'s power, it\'s beyond the power of the US government as presently constructed. If people are willing to break the law to get free stuff, piracy will continue. Like drug prohibition, like gun control, the people most affected by attempts to control the situation will be those who are already law-abiding.\r\n\r\n New OS-level/file-level restrictions will serve to madden the remaining legitimate customer base for music, and will have a limited effect on piracy. Allowing RIAA to hack into private computers will make them far more hated than they are, and grant pirates a legitimacy they did not previously possess. As strange as it may sound, RIAA needs to admit that the primary check on piracy is the conscience of the consumer, and look at making their product more convenient and affordable, as with the new Apple iTunes venture.\r\n\r\n Like it or not, well-ordered societies function because their members voluntarily obey the rules and maintain order, not because of control by authority. And ignoring this fact leads groups like RIAA to expend their time, money, and reputation on fruitless attempts to exercise a control that does not really exist.','2003-06-04 22:28:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3340,1,3570,'68.35.28.36','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','You can also get the gory US defense stats, to include the portion of DoE\'s budget devoted to nuclear arms, from the budget links at www.defenselink.mil (the green books at http://www.defenselink.mil/sites/b.html#budget , year by year). CSIS is also good for foreign countries which are significant militarily (http://www.csis.org/burke/mb/index.htm).','2003-06-04 22:44:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3341,1,3579,'68.35.28.36','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','Not in the introspective political sense, but in the extroverted international sense, America is the first great 21st century Liberal nation. Notably, the \"old Europe\" axis is merely a reactionary phenomena trying to retain past patterns as a mold for casting the future. As the US shifts over the next decade from a post 911 Jacksonian motivation to a more balanced Wilsonian/Hamiltonian approach (it only took 3 weeks to do this with respect to Iraqi policies), the US is going to be forced to define what it represents as its interests internationally. Fortunately, unlike the old school myrmidons who run the Russian, Chinese, and Franco Prussian Foreign Ministries, we seem to have come to recognize that the world no longer is aligned to conform with static alliance structures (a\' la mode of the Cold War or pre WWII Fascist/anti Fascist polarities). Just as the antiterror effort requires diffuse and malleable policy alignments, the rest of foreign policy will exhibit shifting roles for the US and its friends. But what is the axis about which the US must turn is what the US stands for in this world, and it should stand for classic Liberalism rather than the casual reactionary role it played sometimes in the latter 20th century.','2003-06-04 22:57:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3342,1,3579,'63.166.226.115','Stephen','stephen@shadowshow.net','http://slapthemonkey.blogspot.com','The perception of intent is something that is built upon trust. If we want to show the people of the world that the United States doesn\'t intend to use its military and economic might for empire building, then they need to be shown in a way they understand. For some this is as simple as just not bombing their country. For others it\'s more complex, such as having policies that benefit, or at least don\'t work to their detriment.\r\n\r\nBut there\'s a balance in that. We also need to show that we have that strength, else we get taken advantage of. It\'s not unlike any other dysfunctional relationship. The difficulty, I think is that the relationship isn\'t just between nation and nation, but between people. Just because a government has policies in line with American interests, doesn\'t mean that the people of that nation feel the same way, or vice versa. Terrorists might be funded by governments, but they\'re created out of resistance to outside forces. Anger at a nation doesn\'t come from its being perceived as benevolent, just as attacks against it don\'t come from its being perceived as too strong to fight.\r\n\r\nThe world\'s trust in us has taken some serious hits. I\'m not saying that we haven\'t been justified in our actions recently, quite the opposite. But we\'ve scared a lot of people. Regaining, or in some cases creating outright, that trust is going to be difficult, especially in those areas where we\'ve had to use strong arm tactics. Yes, we\'ve saved the people of Baghdad, but they still don\'t have running water and electricity. They still don\'t have jobs.\r\n\r\nRemoving a despotic regime isn\'t enough. People don\'t like change. They don\'t deal with it well. In times of flux it\'s easy for things to fall apart, for things to shift from one direction to another. The trick is in working toward change, without throwing things into such a state of flux that we make the situation worse. When there is no stability, people will go toward the most stabilizing force around. Hitler used this to great effect in the 30\'s.\r\n\r\nTo start, I think that as a nation, as a people, we need to understand the world around us. Whether as friends or enemies, the key to changing various nations\' perceptions is by understanding who they are, and, just as importantly, who we are. \r\n\r\nListening to NPR yesterday morning, there was news of the order in Iraq for the populace to surrender all of their heavy weapons (RPGs, etc.). It was reduced in scope from all firearms. The comment from a general in the area about it was that he figured they would be happy to do it, because by having fewer weapons around things would be safer. \r\n\r\nThis is a classic misunderstanding of people. They have their guns because things are unstable and they don\'t trust the invading force. Granted, it\'s a chicken and egg problem. How do you create stability with all these weapons around? How do you make people want to surrender their weapons without stability?\r\n\r\nRegardless of what economists think, people aren\'t rational. Many, especially in a war zone, are going to react out of fear. Until stability can be re-established, people won\'t want to give up their weapons. This doesn\'t mean they can\'t be taken by force, which might be the necessary solution. But taking things by force means risking more distrust.\r\n\r\nThis matter of trust is a sticky problem, and one that we\'re going to be combatting for years to come, I\'m thinking.','2003-06-04 23:33:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3343,1,3579,'208.223.195.2','Anticipatory Retaliation','BravoRomeoDelta@yahoo.com','http://AnticipatoryRetaliation.blogspot.com','You misunderstand, perhaps, the meaning of \"rationality\" in classical economics. In that sense, \"rational\" behavior is action consistent with one\'s own best interest. In other words, we do things because we want to do them and don\'t do things we don\'t want to do. Cigarette smoking is something that we \"don\'t\" want to do, but the satisfaction of the addiction outweighs the disinclination to smoke, hence smnokers \"want\" to smoke.\r\n\r\nIn the larger economic context, you might be interested in doing some reading on behavioral economics, which, if my guess is right, is a field that will net itself a Nobel prize in the not too distant future.','2003-06-04 23:52:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3344,1,3579,'63.166.226.83','Stephen','stephen@shadowshow.net','http://slapthemonkey.blogspot.com','Thanks, AR. I stand corrected. My understanding of rationality in economics stems from not paying as much attention in school as I should. ;-)\r\n\r\n','2003-06-05 00:04:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3345,1,3582,'172.148.119.62','Dan Hartung','lakefxdan@aol.com','http://www.lakefx.nu/','Working link: Because We Could. It could easily be argued that the Iraq war was a kind of \"broken windows\" neighborhood clean-up. The idea is going around lefty circles that Saddam was a \"scapegoat\" for 9/11 and our failure to find Osama, but the truth has more to do with the tolerance of misbehavior. The Saddam regime had flaunted its flouting of norms of international behavior, apparently certain it would never be called on this. That provided breathing-space for other misbehavior, and allowed some pretty radical ideas to be presented as moderate by comparison.\r\n\r\nI find it remarkable, every day, to hear reports from Baghdad: 1991 we were told, repeatedly, that we \"didn\'t want to see American boys patrolling the streets of Baghdad\", as if it were some bogeyman nightmare-land on par with the Nostromo in Alien. Yet here we are, and oddly, it isn\'t so bad. Oh, it could still go disastrously wrong; we\'re not out of that woods yet. But it has to worry lots of people that the US has rediscovered its confidence (even if, at times, there is overconfidence).\r\n\r\nThus the irony of 9/11 is that suddenly, patrolling the streets of Baghdad didn\'t seem so scary anymore, compared with the towers coming down.','2003-06-05 00:49:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3346,1,3579,'208.223.195.2','Anticipatory Retaliation','BravoRomeoDelta@yahoo.com','http://AnticipatoryRetaliation.blogspot.com','I\'ve met precious few who actually did. I only managed to figure that rational bit out on the fourth or fifth class (and I\'m not telling how many were repeats.) ;-)\r\n\r\nYou do hit, however, on one of the most central elements in the gun control debate - the relationship between firearm availability, feeilngs of security and actual crime rate do not show a simple, easy one-for-one relationship.','2003-06-05 00:50:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3347,1,3577,'172.148.119.62','Dan Hartung','lakefxdan@aol.com','http://www.lakefx.nu/','This isn\'t the first story I\'ve seen on these lines -- one had a soldier saying that if you wanted to send anything to support the troops, send baby wipes.\r\n\r\nRather ironic in light of the childish jeering that Charles Johnson & Co. engaged in regarding their presence in Arafat\'s briefing rooms (especially after the AC was likely dead for good). They particularly seemed to link it, for no obvious reason, to Arab toilet facilities and the eating hand / wiping hand business.\r\n\r\nI mean, it\'s the Middle East. It\'s hot.\r\n\r\nThe only thing I don\'t get is why nobody in the Middle East is enterprising enough to sell them with more suitable packaging. (But maybe that strays into the whole Arab development problem ....)','2003-06-05 01:01:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3348,1,3582,'198.108.224.174','markm','mm@xyz.com','','\"flaunting the flouting\" Great phrase there. Darn, it\'s good to see someone else who still remembers those are two distinct words! ','2003-06-05 01:57:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3349,1,3581,'169.237.24.241','FH','scbaird@ucdavis.edu','','Good ideas on the soldier\'s part. By being directly involved like that they can establish a special bond with the people in that neighborhood. Building trust on the small scale may seem minor, but it actually provides some real faces for the Iraqis to associate American\'s with. So when they think of American\'s in the future, the faces of those soldiers comes to mind.','2003-06-05 03:17:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3350,1,3577,'172.134.193.158','Andrew','nova88@aol.com','','OK, anonymity helps here, but I have to admit to wearing pantyhose only, and that\'s ONLY.... for skiing. For that, they are the best. They weigh, what, a tenth of an ounce, they are completely skin-tight, they keep heat in, keep moisture out, there\'s no way to tell you\'re wearing \'em. All in all, they are perfect for that purpose.\r\n\r\nThen, of course, there\'s the lingerie for bowling.... Oh.... what a giveaway.... did I say that out loud.....?','2003-06-05 03:28:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3351,1,3571,'209.195.154.34','Mohawk T.O','hawk60@alterfurz.com','','The Army has fixed wing birds. But there is a 50ish year-old agreement that limits the gross weight of the aircraft, and their ability to defend them selves. Check out the OV-1 Mohawk, 2 seater Reccon, heavily armed with two (2) .38 cal revolvers!\r\nPhotographic missions, Near InfraRed, and Side Looking Airborne radar (SLAR), were the tasking of the OV-1, and RV-1D models flew Electronic Intel (ELINT) missions.\r\n \r\nThey flew many penetration missions in VN, I just flew cold war border missions in Germany. Mohawks were also assigned to the DMZ in Korea, and had some air time in Honduras and the First Gulf war.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.ov-1mohawk.org/\r\nhttp://nasaa-home.org/asa/buley/memorial.htm\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-06-05 04:08:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3352,1,3571,'64.164.113.79','49erDweet','busmaster@at_msn.com','','As former USAF I recognize horse manure from chicken feathers, and I\'m afraid a bunch of overly-promoted chicken colonels masquerading as generals are wrong - wrong - wrong about phasing out the warthog and \'multi-tasking\' CAS. Can\'t be done! Didn\'t work in Korea, didn\'t work in \'Nam, didn\'t work anywhere else! Flying too fast to be shot up means you\'re flying too fast to hit back and be of any use.\r\n\r\nGet real or give it up to the ground-pounders, guys. You ain\'t fooling nobody but yourselves. ','2003-06-05 04:50:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3353,1,3571,'168.143.113.143','mojito','mojito@indiatimes.com','','In its June 9 issue, Air Force Times reports that Maj. Gen. David Deptula has no idea what Robert Coram is talking about. The article is available (for subscribers) at http://www.airforcetimes.com/story.php?f=0-AIRPAPER-1900398.php.\r\n\r\nExcerpts:\r\n\r\n\"I was shocked when I woke up and read that thing,\" Deptula told Air Force Times. \"It is absolutely not true.\"\r\n\r\nCurrent ACC plans call for keeping some A-10s flying through 2028, Deptula said.\r\n\r\nThe jet eventually expected to replace the A-10 — the stealthy F-35 Joint Strike Fighter — won’t start operational testing until 2010.\r\n\r\n...\r\n\r\nDeptula said he hadn\'t spoken with Coram or the New York Times before or after the piece was published.\r\n\r\nThe column said Deptula ordered one of his staff members to write a report justifying the retirement of the A-10 by as early as 2004.\r\n\r\nDeptula said he didn\'t ask anyone to write such a report and couldn\'t think of a report that might have been mistaken for what Coram described. \r\n\r\n(End excerpts)','2003-06-05 04:53:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3354,1,3582,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Tom Friedman, the Kelvim Escobar of the New York Times. Proving it again in this column. Gotta keep him on the roster because of his raw stuff. Just don\'t make him your closer.','2003-06-05 05:21:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3355,1,3571,'67.26.121.39','Paul','wrenchmonkey@sgtstryker.com','','Of course the Air Force has no plans to get rid of the A-10 in the immediate future. This is just one of those seasonal things that seem to pop-up every Spring and Fall. It\'s the typical Chicken Little shit we\'ve been hearing from know-nothings for the past ten years. ','2003-06-05 05:52:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3356,1,3549,'172.128.31.61','Arthur','ArthurPoet@Hotmail.com','','Robi ... you know, every time I read one of your posts, I have to spend three to ten times as long, reading all of the links and pondering the implications and ramifications. And this does not even include the books that you reference. I must say that I simply do not have the time to read even them too ... my book reading list is growing faster than it is shrinking ... but I must thank you for continuing to give me a greater and greater breadth of understanding about world events and the shifting tides. I was not aware of the state of affairs of US / India / Pakistan relations ... but I am glad to see them evolving to a more civilized arena. And, given the recent events between Israel & Palistine ... I wonder if this is a growing world trend that is emerging ... a positive fallout of the successful conclusion of the recent wars ... maybe ? Maybe it is too soon to be optimistic, but one can hope. And if this does prove to be true and we do begin to see a profound shift in world events .... I wonder if the anti-war proponents would admit that maybe, in this instance, they were wrong.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-05 10:43:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3357,1,3585,'24.128.238.126','SageOne','sager1219@attbi.com','http://sageone.blog-city.com','Yes, Sammy deserves a suspension. You are right though, he might be telling the truth. Imagine that.','2003-06-05 12:17:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3358,1,3571,'55.192.24.31','Earl','cliffie1960@comcast.net','','A little information can often lead to overblown hand-wringing. When HAF recently told its MAJCOMs to find money in the budget for (unspecified program), some commands had the bright idea to offer up the A-10 as a chop option. They knew dropping the A-10 early is a non-starter. It was just a ploy to make it look like they had savings to offer. Of course the option was dropped, and those commands are again scrambling to find other ways to \"do more with less.\" Media caught a whiff and ran with it.\r\n\r\nI remember reading after Desert Storm that McPeak offered the Army the A-10 in exchange for TACMS. Reason was the deconfliction hassle related to the use of TACMS on the battlefield: \"20 Aug 92 - USAF Chief of Staff General Merrill McPeak and US Army Chief of Staff Gordon Sullivan meet to discuss air defense and fire support coordination issues. McPeak would like the USAF to take over the US Army Patriot and long range Tactical Missile System (TACMS) which engage targets well beyond the Fire Support Coordination Line (FSCL) in exchange for fixed wing aviation for the Army to do its own Close Air Support. This is the latest in the \"Roles and Missions\" war going on in Washington for a larger share of the Clinton Administration\'s budget.\"\r\nhttp://www.sci.fi/~fta/1992-ops.htm\r\n\r\nFor a really good description of why, take a look here: http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/96spring/winton.htm Summary: Changing weapons systems and Army doctrine are expanding the fire support coordination line (FSCL) (no air weapons release before this line without coord of a ground commander). Target deconfliction during Desert Storm required Army TACMS targeteers to coord with AF targeteers over which service got to hit which targets.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-05 13:10:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3359,1,3584,'208.20.220.69','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','Now, why would a Samizdatista, one of which I am, have a problem with that?\r\n\r\nI think, A.L., you might be reading more into De Soto\'s capsule than is actually there. Of course property is a consensus attribute. No one could reasonably dispute that. But it\'s also indisputable that certain consensuses about property work far better than others -- predictably so, whenever and wherever they\'re tried. Just because the consensus is a matter of people\'s aggregate opinion doesn\'t insulate it from the verdict of reality.\r\n','2003-06-05 13:59:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3360,1,3585,'66.129.135.82','xavier','buscaraons@netscape.net','http://www.buscaraons.blogspot.com','Joe:\r\nDoes a corked bat really allow a batter to hit a ball further?\r\n\r\nSorry I don\'t follow sports :)\r\nxavier ','2003-06-05 14:12:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3361,1,3584,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','I\'m sorry; I meant to be wry, and on reading it this morning, can see that it didn\'t come across...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-05 14:45:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3362,1,3585,'171.161.160.10','Jeff Medcalf','medcalf@caerdroia.org','http://www.caerdroia.org/blog','A corked bat is assumed to add about 20 or 30 feet to a fly ball\'s overground distance. This mostly has to do with the lighter weight allowing more speed as the bat comes around. It\'s the velocity of the bat that is most important to the distance of travel.\r\n\r\nBarring further evidence, I\'m inclined to believe Sosa, for three reasons:\r\n\r\n1) He has always been an honorable person. I would assume differently if this were Darrell Strawberry.\r\n\r\n2) The other bats all checked out legit.\r\n\r\n3) He\'s mentioned before (don\'t have the cite in front of me, but it was in 1999 or so that he said this) using corked bats in practice to give the die-hard fans a show, so his statement is not out of line with known past behavior.\r\n\r\nYes, he should get a suspension. No, this shouldn\'t ruin his career, put an asterisk in the books or cause a loss of confidence in baseball generally.\r\n','2003-06-05 16:52:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3363,1,3585,'63.99.214.57','Tim G.','tim@tpg1.com','http://www.tpg1.com/blog.weblog.php','He has to be given the benefit of the doubt now. However, any good agent will have told him to \"deny, deny, deny.\"\r\n\r\nThen hope the whole thing blows over.\r\n\r\nAh the life of a public figure. Why would anyone want it?','2003-06-05 16:57:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3364,1,3584,'152.10.83.108','Mark','mark@rationalexplications.com','http://www.rationalexplications.com','This discussion is very applicable to Iraq. Some seem to be preoccupied with hastily establishing a democracy. What the primary concern should be is establishing the rule of law and an enforceable private property rights system.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-05 16:59:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3365,1,3584,'207.245.113.120','Undertoad','undertoad@cellar.org','http://cellar.org','It makes sense. Who would want to live in a shantytown, in shacks that will blow over in the first stiff wind? Who would not improve their own living conditions, their own house? Lay down proper sewage lines and roads? It\'s not hard to do, why don\'t they do it?\r\n\r\nBecause it makes sense for them -- because they have either a weak government that doesn\'t or won\'t issue deeds and/or protect rights -- or a strong government that will nationalize anything built well enough to stay standing.\r\n\r\nThis, too, is the door to proving the existence of a social contract, which will really irritate the Samizdaten.\r\n','2003-06-05 17:17:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3366,1,3571,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Very sharp stuff, Earl. I\'d say McPeak\'s idea might have a lot to recommend it. Wonder how \"deconfliction\" worked in Gulf War II, generally acknowledged to be a big leap ahead in having services work together.','2003-06-05 18:41:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3367,1,3585,'157.130.29.226','Leslie','lspiller@intecap.com','','As a Chicagoan and a Cubs fan, I\'ve got news for Sammy: You are NOT using a corked bat in batting practice for the benefit of your fans. You are doing it to make yourself look better than you really are. Hit all the home run balls you want in practice, Sammy, and that\'s not going to make the fans happy. Hitting home runs with an uncorked bat during a real game will make us happy. So there.','2003-06-05 18:53:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3368,1,3575,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Joe:\r\nThose Hillsdale students received a blessing beyond measure from Hume. I can see why he left ABC. He really nailed Koppel with the cynical/skeptical distinction\r\n\r\nI would like to see Fox take the lead on this constant \"Dowdification\" by nearly all news organizations. Fox has the opportunity to leap far ahead of the pack by pointing out the distortions and outright lies disseminated as \"all the news thats fit to print\" by most other media orgs. I note that \"The Guardian\" has made a full retraction and correction of the Wolfowitz \"war for oil\" quote fairly quickly, but I\'m still waiting for the NYT to correct Dowd\'s distortion- AND to send that correction to all the papers that reprinted Dowd\'s May 14th column.','2003-06-05 19:04:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3369,1,3584,'128.253.136.23','John Thacker','thacker@math.cornell.edu','','In actuality, there are few people more in favor of bringing the underground economy into the mainstream than libertarians. All libertarians I know recognize the importance of government in establishing law in order to protect contracts and property rights that allow the economic system to function. All the libertarians I know are big fans of De Soto.\r\n\r\nWe wouldn\'t want to confuse libertarians with anarchists, now would we? But I\'m sure you knew that already and weren\'t being serious. :)','2003-06-05 19:12:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3370,1,3584,'208.20.220.69','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','\"The social contract isn\'t worth the paper it\'s not written on.\" -- John Seymour\r\n\r\nWhereas simple majorities can sustain certain kinds of consensuses, some agreements, such as those about rights, can be destabilized by tiny minorities. Look at any highway where even a handful of the drivers have decided that the law does not apply to them, and you\'ll see what would happen if a comparable fraction of a society were to abrogate the consensus of private property.\r\n\r\nA stable, property-respecting society is not a social contract. It\'s the result of a multigenerational winnowing procedure, over the course of which dissenters from the propertarian ethic were gradually expunged from participation in the system. New dissenters, so long as they remain below a certain threshold, will not destabilize the ethic. However, according to studies done by Robert Axelrod, Douglas Hofstadter and others, it only takes about a 2% dissent fraction to destroy a propertarian system.\r\n\r\nMathematician Martin Gardner called the study of such effects renormalized rationality, a term by which he hoped to capture the progressive nature of the processes involved. The mechanisms bear a strong resemblance to the properties of distributed cybernetic systems.\r\n\r\nThe propertarian ethic is easily destabilized. Riots, with their accompanying looting, are a good demonstration.\r\n\r\nIf our consensus on property rights were a contractual matter, then a sufficiently powerful enforcement agency could put down the dissenters and restore the ethic. But surprise! This agency, which we usually call \"the State,\" is overwhelmingly more likely than not to have been intimately involved in the destabilization, through taxation and similar property seizures that exceed *the value of the overhead-cum-externality goods which private actors would not make for themselves.*\r\n\r\nSo the \"social contract,\" of which the State is normally held to be the primary expression, fails to possess one of the requisite properties of a contract: enforceability of a predictable kind. More: once the State gets beyond the citizenry\'s ability to restrain it, which usually happens rather quickly, it\'s not social but anti-social, as it impedes the economic progress and self-organization of society with its excisions, while simultaneously robbing private individuals of the means of self-defense...for obvious reasons.\r\n\r\nThe late Don LaVoie once argued that the error that usually collapses the propertarian ethic is the unchallenged assertion that the State is the proper representative and conservator of \"society\'s interests.\" This is not so. The State is, at any moment, a discrete entity with hegemonic privileges over everyone else; society is amorphous and anonymous, and its relationships are continually changing. Society\'s interests are better represented and conserved by a comparably amorphous and anonymous entity, such as the free market -- a venue in which truly contractarian behavior takes place, in contrast to the hegemonic behavior that characterizes the State.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-05 19:15:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3371,1,3584,'128.253.136.23','John Thacker','thacker@math.cornell.edu','','Conservatives of course are less likely to want to integrate portions of the underground economy. However, they\'re also very likely to respect De Soto\'s claim that the most important part of making capitalism work is to change attitudes.','2003-06-05 19:15:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3372,1,3585,'152.43.34.20','Ara Rubyan','ara@rubyan.com','http://www.rubyan.com/politics','POTUS got caught corking his bat too. ','2003-06-05 19:47:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3373,1,3572,'165.224.148.243','Omnibus Bill','omnbsbll@aol.com','http://www.crimen_falsi.blogspot.com/','I grew up in one of those left leaning, upper-middle northeastern towns. My old man, R.I.P., had the limousine liberals\' number down pretty well. Whenever we\'d see one in the Merc or Volvo with the peace stickers, and the pained smile, as if the botox needle was still stuck in, he\'d say, \r\n\r\n\"Dammit! What they hell are they smiling at? They wouldn\'t slow down to keep from running you down in a church parking lot. Never trust anybody that goes around smiling all the time.\" \r\n\r\nThat about sums it up: Sugar coated razor blades and bile. ','2003-06-05 19:57:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3374,1,3580,'64.70.24.50','Snowleopard','snowleopard@alaska.net','','I read Lilek\'s column yesterday morning, and it is telling that I spent more than an hour searching before I could find coverage of the discovery of the children\'s grave. Today there are a few more articles, but only a few. As Lilek said, it doesn\'t appear very newsworthy. Here\'s a link, if anyone is interested. What he didn\'t mention was that it is believed that the babes were buried alive. Where was God? Where were we? \r\n\r\nhttp://www.kurdmedia.com/news.asp?id=3953','2003-06-05 20:04:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3375,1,3581,'67.75.31.52','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','As an aside, MB would like to say that not all MC riders are thugs; MB & PB have been riding for 30 years, but we\'ve yet to exhibit ANY thuggish tendencies. \r\n','2003-06-05 20:05:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3376,1,3580,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','G-d was there to provide comfort to both the children and the parents, if they wanted it. G-d was also there to tell us, long ago, that we cannot be indifferent in the face of evil. Finally, G-d was there to give us free will.\r\n\r\nComfort, teachings, free will. What we do with them is up to us. So indeed... where were we? This was something we could have stopped if we had acted earlier.','2003-06-05 20:33:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3377,1,3584,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','John, the \"underground economy\" De Soto refers to is primarily the impossibility of owning legal property in many Third World countires. Since people have to live somewhere and settle these issues somehow, underground arrangements spring up instead. \r\n\r\nIn many countries, the amount of capital that can be released by such efforts is tens of times larger than the TOTAL amount of foreign aid they have EVER received.','2003-06-05 20:36:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3378,1,3575,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Maybe their NEW EDITOR IN CHIEF will held speed that process along at the NYT.','2003-06-05 20:40:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3379,1,3582,'64.171.177.139','Katherine','katherine@kudrycki.com','','This is not exactly news. That this was the main reason for the war was obvious from the very beginning. Since 9-11 I knew we had to hit them and hit them hard to disabuse the terrorist of their Hollywood version of American resolve in response to serious threat. Saddam was an easily justifiable and hence obvious target. There were discussions along those lines on Samizdata and other blogs months ago. The real news is that Friedman wrote it in plain language and that NYT published it.','2003-06-05 21:50:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3380,1,3582,'138.133.17.8','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Yes, many blogs - including mine - made the same argument (part of why I\'m happy to see it become more common). But there\'s a dramatic difference when it becomes a part of mainstream discourse, which Friedman has now helped do.\r\n\r\nThat\'s a damn good thing, and I\'m happy to recognize it.','2003-06-05 22:08:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3381,1,3580,'66.127.212.5','clue','clue@bcke.com','','There are so many places in the world where this kind of thing continues, even today.\r\n\r\nCause for prayerful reflection on the previous comments. How much can we stop?\r\n\r\nProbably somewhere far south of \"all of it\" but for north of \"just in Iraq\".','2003-06-05 22:12:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3382,1,3580,'66.127.212.5','clue','clue@bcke.com','','\"far north\", that is.','2003-06-05 22:12:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3383,1,3571,'63.201.59.188','Timothy Fox','tpfox@sbcglobal.net','','The F-35 JSF sounds like a replay of the TFX (aka \"Flying Edsel\"), a wish list with wings that mutated into the F-111, F-14, and F-15. All of these _eventually_ became very capable aircraft, but only after years of problems and compromised performance due in large part to unrealistic emphasis on commonality as a cost-saving measure. (Thank you, Robert MacNamara and your \"Whiz Kids\")','2003-06-06 00:20:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3384,1,3584,'203.166.57.11','Nakkiel','nakkiel@ozemail.com.au','http://usurer.blogspot.com','The first sentence is true, but it is not as important as its author makes it out to be - but we can overlook this as we have bigger fish to fry. The second and third sentences are true, but each in its own way omits a fundamental point about property. By the fourth and fifth sentences, this ommission leads to a somewhat ugly conclusions about theory. In turn, that ugly theoretical conclusion leads to an equally ugly practical conclusion in the sixth and last sentence.\r\n\r\n\r\nQuoth Francis:\r\n\"Of course property is a consensus attribute. No one could reasonably dispute that.\"\r\n\r\nCare to wager on that??\r\n\r\n\r\nThe fundamental point that the de Soto quote fails to recognise is the importance of the *moral* status of ownership. I recognise that the quote is from a wider piece of writing and may be at least partly out of context, but even despite this there is no excuse for the failure to mention morality in the middle of the block so provided.\r\n\r\nProperty is a MORAL issue long before it becomes a political or economic point. The closest that the quote comes to it is the implication that property is something that is merely tolerated in order that society may prosper. That is, the quote is saying that society is an end in itself and that individuals and the relationships among them are merely means to that end. THAT IS NOT CAPITALISM - that is nothing more than a species of socialism that just happens to embrace outsourcing on the largest scale possible. If THAT kind of attitude is what underlies a push for private property, then the pushers hand moral victory over to the socialists free of charge. The result will be a partial boost given to the economy, which will then be used to fuel the incremental imposition of socialism. Economic collapse is inevitable, but the pseudo-free-market system present will be turned into a beast of burden and allow socialism to last longer than it would on its own feet. And, without a proper *individual-morality-based defense of property*, the amorality of capitalism will get the blame. The theoretical musings of Smith, Mills, and de Soto, will be ignored because the moral disdain for capitalism will lead to bastards like Keynes and Krugman getting the benefit of the doubt.\r\n\r\n\r\nQuoth Undertoad:\r\n\"This, too, is the door to proving the existence of a social contract, which will really irritate the Samizdaten.\"\r\n\r\nPrecisely.\r\n\r\n\r\nTherefore, the challenge is NOT to institute the politics of property, but to institute the MORALITY of property in the people themselves. That means secularism, reason, primacy-of-individuals, and upholding the propriety of rational self-interest, rather than pragmaticism, primacy-of-society, and outsourced-socialism theories such as utilitarianism. Politics is a derivative, not a primary. Take care of the morality and the politics & economics will take care of themselves. The priority of morality over politics is one major reason why Objectivists are NOT libertarians, incidentally. The particular policies might be similar, but the reasons behind them are WAY different.\r\n\r\n\r\nUnfortunately, I don\'t see the advocacy of the requisite morality happening widespread any time soon. As I wrote in a samizdata comment, since altruism is still taken seriously the borg nanites are still in the bloodstream, which is why socialism is the demon that will not die a well-deserved death. Result: socialism is still upheld - by leftists and conservatives alike - as the moral ideal with dissent merely about whether it is practical. This in turn leads to incrementalism and hence disaster after disaster, where capitalism and free markets and property get the blame time and time again. The words of the likes of the author of that quote will not do a damn thing to stop it as they are part of the *cause* because they STILL give moral credence to socialism, whether directly or indirectly through primacy-of-society undertones.\r\n\r\nJJM','2003-06-06 02:54:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3385,1,3584,'64.24.154.28','George Turner','gturner6ppc@yahoo.com','','I think De Soto\'s point is very valid, which might be why many economists are hailing him as the greatest thinker in the last 1000 years. The people in third world countries have property arrangements, but they aren\'t enforceable. If assets aren\'t seizable they can\'t be used as capital. Without a system of legal ownership, as opposed to defacto \"my neighbors all know this is mine\" an outside entity can\'t seize property, which means that property can\'t be used as collateral.\r\n\r\nMy house is capital, but a third world house is just a dwelling, because if a loan officer went to foreclose on it because the owner was in default, it would turn out to be somebody else\'s cousin\'s house. There is a saying in Arab countries that you can never take a man\'s camel, because it is never his.\r\n\r\nDeSoto also talks a great deal about business law, and why third world businesses are so inefficient. To run a legal business in many countries requires literally years of jumping through hoops at a wide array of ministries.\r\n\r\nYou have to hire employees, but not enough to draw attention to yourself. You can\'t put much money into capital, because the bank account would draw attention to your illegal business. You can\'t often go legal, because the cost of all the bribes and beaurocracy will drive you bankrupt. The best you can do is stay small, and avoid attention.\r\n\r\nBasically, the institutions in these countries don\'t work, and harken back to mercantilism from the 1600\'s. All the rules are based on \"managing\" the resources, instead of growing the pie. A legal business is viewed as a fiefdom, to be passed on to heirs, and lawyers are hired to make sure the various ministries don\'t allow another competing business to start up. Instead of the king letting you own an estate, the government gives you legal rights to run the city\'s soap monopoly.\r\n\r\nThese countries go through a bewildering sequence of left wing and right wing governments, but the basic flaws in the system never change. As De Soto says, the fox and the wolf are very different, but to a chicken it\'s only the teeth that matter. The people in these countries are trapped in a system filled with institutions that work against them. In Egypt it would take about 20 years to gain legal title to your house, after which you\'d be sent to jail for having been living in a house that you didn\'t legally own.\r\n\r\nMuch, if not most, of the economic activity in these countries takes place in the black market.\r\nFrom DeSoto, you might argue that the reason America doesn\'t have a black market is that America is a black market. We just made the rules in common use in our black market the legal law of the land. For a sound and functioning economy, you don\'t really need any fancy theories or institutions which weren\'t already common in the early U.S. His book \"The Other Path\" goes into more depth about the black markets.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-06-06 08:02:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3386,1,3574,'66.81.164.140','Brad','donnor@dontspammenowhotmail.com','','Coverage and analysis of Chechnya.','2003-06-06 08:45:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3387,1,3588,'67.75.31.49','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','Wear those laurels with pride, laddie! \r\n','2003-06-06 15:47:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3388,1,3587,'24.28.2.101','Matthew','portablematthew@yahoo.com','http://fearfulsymmetry.blogspot.com/','Joe, I\'d say Sierra Leone produced mixed results when it came to the effectiveness of ECOWAS and other African forces. That said, one military force that was HIGHLY effective in Sierra Leone was the option that dare not speak its name -- PMCs, or private military companies.\r\n\r\nDuring their time in Sierra Leone, the PMC Executive Outcomes (EO) peformed a vital stabilizing role which protected several diamond mines in the Kono district from repeated RUF attacks. But like ECOWAS itself, EO bent to outside (UN/US/South African) pressure and abandoned its operations in Sierra Leone. Facing restrictions placed upon them by the South African government, the Pretoria-based EO eventually disbanded in the late 1990s. But other companies like Sandline are still around.\r\n\r\nThe idea of employing \"mercenary\" units leaves a bad taste in the mouth of idealists, but it seems to me that a well-trained, well-equipped PMC authorized to, as you put it, \"aggressively kill those involved in and organizing the violence,\" could make a world of difference in the Congo and elsewhere in Africa.','2003-06-06 16:15:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3389,1,3587,'66.41.151.19','Rook','cdguy@attbi.com','http://cdguy.blogspot.com/','The more I think about this, the more I wonder if Democratic colonization isn\'t such a bad idea. Honestly, isn\'t that what Iraq\'s rebuilding is all about?','2003-06-06 16:30:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3390,1,3587,'134.114.12.45','Lancer','lance.blyth@nau.edu','','A few months back I read Samantha Powers\' _A Problem from Hell_ on the US and genocide and it left a weird taste, metaphorically, in my mouth.\r\n\r\nI was left with the feeling that while Powers felt genocide was bad, she believed that intervention by the US would have been, well, worse. Thus her solution was wanting us to stop supporting dictators (although the genocides of the 90s were done by governments that the US did not support--Serbia, Rwanda, etc.), to feel bad about genocide when it happens, but not really do anything to stop it. ( I need to re-read the book.)','2003-06-06 16:32:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3391,1,3587,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Matthew, good points. As the UN becomes obviously useless even to liberals during this crisis, we might see some interesting ideas floated around as necessity births some new approaches. \r\n\r\nPrivate companies like EO are one, but this will make many governments (and statists) nervous as hell. A related option that builds on your idea is Foreign Legions, built on the French model, staffed mostly by Third World citizens with \"good enough\" equipment, for use in just these kinds of conflicts. Citizenship at the end is the prize, and given Europe\'s demographic reality it may be an attractive option that wins support left (moral intervention, immigration) and right (military boost, acculturation).\r\n\r\nAs I say, interesting on so many levels. A moral crisis, revealing the failure of the UN (who said \"never again\" after Rwanda, and hardly waited a decade), graphically pointing to the limits of sovereignty and requiring intervention that can only be described as \"colonial.\" Lots of cracks coming in the edifices of peoples\' ideologies.','2003-06-06 16:53:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3392,1,3587,'172.171.43.163','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','They don\'t have to use Third World citizens, though I\'m sure that would be preferable, they could just use their unemployed.','2003-06-06 17:48:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3393,1,3587,'216.68.253.1','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com','Mercenary companies are not an option. Mind you, I agree they SHOULD be an option, and I think a reasonable system for policing them could be set up, but, sadly, there\'s a HUGE hurdle to their implementation:\r\n\r\nMercenaries are not protected by the Geneva Conventions - They are, in fact, specifically EXEMPTED from getting either legal combatant or POW status.\r\n\r\nWithout the removal of this bit of bizarro-world thinking, it would be unthinkable to send mercenaries into any combat.\r\n','2003-06-06 18:07:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3394,1,3588,'204.155.16.72','Chrees','condrieu@yahoo.com','','Too funny. But of course, you usually hear tons of crap being spread around in Santa Cruz, but it goes with the territory...','2003-06-06 18:56:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3395,1,3587,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Because you know, if we sent regular troops in there against the tribal bands who\'ve murdered 3 million of their countrymen, we know they\'d be fully protected by the existence of the Geneva Conventions if captured...?\r\n\r\nRobert, you\'re normally clearer-thinking than this.','2003-06-06 18:56:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3396,1,3587,'204.155.16.72','Chrees','condrieu@yahoo.com','','Lancer, that\'s not the feeling I got from Power\'s book at all. I thought her point was more that we would repeat over and over \"never again\" while turning a blind eye to what was going on most of the time... not wanting to see it until it was a foregone conclusion. Her analysis was that there are many tools that can be used (diplomatic as well as force) in these situations, and the U.S. rarely opened the lid to the toolbox.\r\nThe case of Rwanda is classic that it probably would not have taken much in the way of force... but the force that is there has to be determined instead of only for show.','2003-06-06 19:00:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3397,1,3588,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','I would think anything that went beyond surfer slang might have a very willing market in Santa Cruz...','2003-06-06 19:08:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3398,1,3587,'216.68.253.1','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com/','Joe, you\'re absolutely right that the typical bands of murderers wouldn\'t obey the Geneva Conventions for any group. I wasn\'t clear as to why I think the particular exemption of mercenaries is a problem, so I\'ll try to do better. Don\'t know if I can. \r\n\r\nIt\'s not just the treatment of captured mercenaries that\'s at issue, but also the ACTIONS of mercenaries. It\'s a reasonable position to say that since the GC doesn\'t protect mercenaries, they are not bound by it.\r\n\r\nI have confidence that (real) GC violations by US forces are aberrations, and that the US armed forces work hard to find and punish violators. If the US hired a mercenary force to take part in peace-keeping actions, so long as there\'s no incentive for the mercenaries to obey the GC, I don\'t have the same confidence that they will.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-06 19:21:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3399,1,3587,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Ahh, now I understand. That makes sense. Though it might be churlish of me to point out that the same problem would apply in spades to, say, Indonesian or Chinese troops in theatre.','2003-06-06 19:43:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3400,1,3587,'64.73.73.18','SparcVark','lanzknecht@hotmail.com','',' Also, Joe, remember the likelihood of ICC or other third party prosecution of any troops involved in ugly counter-insurgency work of the type that would undoubtedly be common in Africa.\r\n\r\n Having a bunch of \"francs-tireurs\" not subject to the GC or its legal protections would produce a field day for the kind of forces that are now trying to indict Gen. Franks.','2003-06-06 19:55:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3401,1,3587,'216.68.253.1','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com','\"Though it might be churlish of me to point out that the same problem would apply in spades to, say, Indonesian or Chinese troops in theatre.\"\r\n\r\nNot churlish at all. But even if they\'re there at the UN request, they\'re not there on my dime.\r\n','2003-06-06 20:01:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3402,1,3587,'66.27.50.74','Steven Den Beste','sdenbes1@san.rr.com','http://denbeste.nu','They\'re in there on your 2.3 cents. The US provides 23% of the UN budget. Where do you think the money comes from?\r\n\r\nThose peacekeeping forces don\'t get provided for free by the nations they come from; they\'re being rented by the UN.\r\n\r\nWhen we send forces to be part of a UN peacekeeping mission, we pay the bill. But when someone like Indonesia or Pakistan sends such troops, they\'re paid to do so.','2003-06-06 21:12:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3403,1,3590,'68.35.28.36','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','Like in the \"emperor has no clothes\", the emperor can\'t stop keeping up the appearances even if he\'s frigid in the winter and sunburnt in the summer. If SH had said that he was a duped fool, well, that would have sealed his doom just as well as GWB did. In fact the US might have been a better one to surrender to than the rest of the Baathist thugs, but we\'ll not know that plot twist for some time.','2003-06-06 22:03:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3404,1,3588,'138.88.52.5','lightning','lightning@toadmail.com','http://lightningbug.blogspot.com','(Insert witty remark about Wittgenstein\'s poker.)\r\n','2003-06-06 22:03:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3405,1,3590,'12.41.190.52','rc5','rc5-junk@dragonwerks.net','','I\'ve never known a buerocrat to admit that the sand in the shipping container was a complete ripoff, usually it \"fails to meet standards\"','2003-06-06 22:12:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3406,1,3587,'68.35.28.36','Tom Roberts','inviscid@comcast.net','','The issue of mercenaries vs regular troops can be dealt with as it has been dealt with by the British and French armies for two centuries. You just make the mercenaries part of regular regiments in the army, just as the Gurkas are in the British Army or the French Foreign Legion (they are \"etrangers\" because they are non citizen mercenaries, n\'est ce pas?) in the French Army. The usual objection to purely mercenary armies is similar to issuance of martime letters of marque in the post Napoleonic period, if you want to pay for the results you need to have these forces within your military command structure. That way if they create murder and mayhem as well as killing your enemies, the murder and mayhem is on your head, and you shouldn\'t be able to say \"they are privateers or mercenaries and we don\'t really control their specific actions...\"\r\n\r\nActually, the Highland regiments for the Brits started out this way also, but later came to be recognized as fully British after London recovered from the Jacobite scare. So there is a long history of shades of gray in this area.','2003-06-06 22:13:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3407,1,3588,'138.133.17.10','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','lightning -\r\n\r\nI bow in shame. I can\'t believe I didn\'t use that in a line ... although I might not have enjoyed the ones that it picked up...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-06 22:24:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3408,1,3587,'63.166.226.90','Stephen','stephen@shadowshow.net','http://slapthemonkey.blogspot.com','Saving the Sum of Things for Pay: Executive Outcomes in Sierra Leone\r\nby Michael van Maanen\r\n\r\nHere\'s an interesting analysis of Executive Outcomes\' work in Sierra Leone, their connections with the mining industry and what this means for the future of using mercenary units to stabilize governments. The information is somewhat dated, and I can\'t vouch for the source, but an interesting read nonetheless. Also has an interesting overview of other PMCs and their capabilities.\r\n\r\nFrom the article:\r\n\r\n\"The attractiveness of private militaries is also enhanced by the fact that the UN and key western states such as the United Kingdom, France and the United States have essentially declared themselves to be out of the business of military intervention in Africa. The disasters of Bosnia, Somalia, Rwanda and Angola have thrown the political, military and financial costs of such interventions into sharp relief. With the end of the Cold War, Africa has lost almost all of its strategic significance. Against this backdrop, senior western policy makers are increasingly unable to justify potentially costly military involvement in Africa\'s \'dirty wars\'. This is a view supported by a senior United States diplomat who acknowledged that \"Africa is a sideshow as far as [the Clinton] administration is concerned…Ever since [the end of the Cold War] Africa has barely made it onto our radar screen\".\"','2003-06-07 00:42:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3409,1,3593,'63.166.226.90','Stephen','stephen@shadowshow.net','http://slapthemonkey.blogspot.com','I\'ve always had mixed feelings about sanctions. On the one hand they choke a government of much needed funds, hopefully drying them out to a point where they feel the hurt. At the same time they affect the population. It reminds me of chemotherapy. The tumor dies (sometimes), but the rest of the body gets hammered in the process.\r\n\r\nI\'m not saying to not have them. I think they\'re a useful tool when used in conjunction with other diplomatic pressures. I get the feeling sometimes, though that they\'re used too sweepingly, too often, almost as a quick fix. Something to say, \"See! We did something!\" when nothing really is being done at all.','2003-06-07 00:56:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3410,1,3593,'138.133.17.8','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','I\'ve usually seen sanctions as more of an organizing tool and as a public repudiation of a government.\r\n\r\nI\'m not someone who believes that because Nike moves a plant out of fear of boycott that a repressive government will fall. But not only do I feel it\'s useful to send a message to repressive thugs, but I am coming to think that if correctly implemented, it\'s a way of making kleptocracy less attractive.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-07 01:09:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3411,1,3573,'68.74.72.98','Tricia','cashcando@prodigy.net','',' Trent,\r\n\r\n I linked over from \"Gweilo Diaries\"\r\n\r\n The disregard for societal mores and taboos indicative of a severe breakdown in North Korean society, because of the dire deprivation.\r\n\r\n The North Korean people may become stigmatized by the South Koreans.\r\n\r\n After the collapse of Kim Jong il\'s regime, who will fill the power vacuum? What will happen to the North Korean\'s standing army? Will it become factionalized and pillage the countryside? Will these smaller armed former military groups be subject to the whims of a new class of \"Korean warlords\"?\r\n\r\n North and South Korean reunification may prove to be a situation rife with prejudice, conflicts and possibly even violence.\r\n\r\n Think China will then, intervene and annex the Korean peninsula \"for the good of the Korean people\"?\r\n\r\n I don\'t know...\r\n \r\n Tricia\r\n\r\n ','2003-06-07 03:31:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3412,1,3575,'172.136.106.137','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','Please. Fox is just as bad about skewing facts and making shit up.','2003-06-07 06:02:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3413,1,3594,'66.32.178.168','clue','clue@bcke.com','','I\'m a little reluctant to bravely hoist the \"What Liberal Media?\" flag, but you have to wonder where the coverage is, and where it would have been four years ago.\r\n\r\nI figure the reason there\'s no huge controversy about this is that the majority of career active duty military personnel aren\'t aware that it\'s happening.\r\n\r\nNow why is that?','2003-06-07 07:08:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3414,1,3587,'203.45.127.72','wretchard','wretchardthecat@hotmail.com','http://belmontclub.blogspot.com','There\'s plenty of unemployed military manpower around. What\'s lacking is leadership. For example, there are the armed forces of New Zealand, Ireland, Belgium, the Netherlands, Canada and Japan. Japan has the second largest military budget in the world, after the USA and is not, nor has ever been doing anything in particular since the end of World War 2.\r\n\r\nWhat is required is the establishment of regional commands the equivalent of CENTCOM, SOUTHCOM, PACOM etc, which consists of non-UN professionals who will serve as a command and intelligence element for peacekeeping operations to which these national forces can be chopped for purposes agreed.\r\n\r\nAfrica in particular is crying out for a general staff that will gather intelligence, study deployments, build scenarios -- all the things a headquarters does. Right now the French are going over the old Dragon Blanche files to see how they can deploy to Bunia. But is that any way to run a railroad?\r\n\r\nIf we build it, they will come.','2003-06-07 10:32:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3415,1,3593,'203.45.127.72','wretchard','wretchardthecat@hotmail.com','http://belmontclub.blogspot.com','Sanctions will have little or no effect on the Burmese junta. Most of their money comes from drug trafficking or money laundering, which is proscribed anyway. Sanctions will simply close down the last legitimate business in Rangoon. They are a weasel way to lending an appearance of action.\r\n\r\nThe practical way to topple the Burmese junta is to instigate a destabilization program against them. The Burmee government is the equivalent of a narcotics cartel in control of a UN-recognized nation. It\'s like the Taliban in principle, but written smaller.\r\n\r\nWhile Burma is not a national security priority, to the extent that the War on Drugs is valid effort, the junta in Burma must be destroyed. The United States has attempted to oppose them on the cheap, using Aung San Suu Kyi as an army of one. That\'s shameful for so mighty a nation as America, and it\'s time to invest the appropriate amount of energy in making certain this result happens. Sanctions are not and will never be enough.','2003-06-07 12:38:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3416,1,3587,'24.28.2.101','Matthew','portablematthew@yahoo.com','http://fearfulsymmetry.blogspot.com/','The use of PMCs is a matter of trade-offs. Yes, I\'m sure that any mercenary company commander is aware of the limits of Geneva convention protections when it comes to his troops, but find me one rebel group in Africa which actually follows the convention\'s guidelines. (Answer = none.) But there\'s a bigger problem with PMCs and that\'s the charge laid at Executive Outcome\'s feet during the Sierra Leone campaign, namely, that EO was exploiting local resources in areas it came to control. This, and the fear that mercenaries might be used to overthrow established governments (if employed by rebels or foreign powers) is a reason why African countries (and Western diplomats) are leery about PMCs.\r\n\r\nThat said, because the attitude has always been that PMCs are somehow \"illegitimate\" and must be regulated out of existence, a potentially valuable force for peace missions on the continent of Africa has been retarded. Rather than eliminate PMCs as a viable force, a better path for the international community would be to set up an accreditation system whereby PMCs would be allowed to engage in peacemaking/peacekeeping operations on behalf of the UN or member-states, with assurances that the mercenaries not work against the interests of peace and security by destabilizing local governments.','2003-06-07 13:41:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3417,1,3597,'24.145.162.48','Graham Lester','gclester@excite.com','http://www.grahamlester.com','Since I appreciate the ecumenical spirit behind your Saturday tradition, I shall throw in a couple of cents.\r\n\r\nThe apparent meaning is that the teacher will adapt to the specific environment in which he is teaching.\r\n\r\nHowever, that is not the case at second look. He does *not* say, \"I would teach my disciples a totally different kind of commandment,\" He says, \"I would have to get myself a totally different kind of disciple.\"\r\n\r\nThis implies that his current disciples are individuals who will respond well to the \"mulberry\" tradition, whereas, in a different social context, he would pick out individuals who needed a different type of training.\r\n\r\nUnderlying this, however, is a precondition that I do not personally accept, namely the assumption that the teacher would be able to pick out the individuals in need of the appropriate tradition in either case. I don\'t believe that individuals with such abilities actually exist, but the story is worthwhile nonetheless.','2003-06-07 18:51:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3418,1,3597,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','I agree with most of Graham\'s comments, but would add:\r\n\r\nInstead of\r\n\"picking out individuals who needed a different type of training\",\r\nthe culture as a whole is vastly different than the \"mulberry\" one, and would have different needs and desires, and respond to alternative inputs.\r\n \r\nThe Sufi master would adapt his methods to attract the type of disciple that is ready/able to accept his teachings, and could identify those needs based on the culture he finds or the type of potential disciple that comes forward and/or their reactions to Sufi teachings.\r\n\r\n\"precondition\"\r\n\r\nThe teacher would not seek the individuals; instead, those willing to accept his teachings would seek out the teacher. \r\n\r\n','2003-06-07 22:10:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3419,1,3597,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','I\'ve got to find a way to bring you 2 plus Samuel Tai and Lazypundit back here every week. Great stuff!','2003-06-07 22:24:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3420,1,3587,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','The UN\'s inability to act:\r\n\r\nWhat it boils down to is that there are too many chiefs and NO indians. Each chief only looks out for his tribe, and doesn\'t care about any others, unless there is something in it for them.\r\n\r\nAt one time (not sure when) Poland was ruled by an assembly of a couple of hundred princes, each representing a small locality. The problem was, the assembly had to agree unanimously to get anything done. How much was done?? Next to nothing. \r\n\r\nThe UN is in virtually the same boat. Until that changes, nothing of import can be accomplished- except by individual nations that decide to act on their own, or in concert with a few other like-minded states. (GW II)\r\n\r\nMy suggestion?? Pick one good man- give him complete authority for what actions to take, and the responsibiity for the results. If more than one person is responsible, then in actuality, no one is responsible.','2003-06-07 22:54:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3421,1,3590,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','This is a real possibility, but just to take the other side of this issue:\r\n\r\nWe know that Saddam had several Iraqi expatriots killed by his assassin squads (oops, diplomatic envoys) in various countries. Wouldn\'t someone fear for their life if they ripped Saddam off, no matter where they lived?','2003-06-08 00:24:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3422,1,3587,'209.167.133.22','angua','nospam@nospam.com','http://angua.blogspot.com','wretchard,\r\n\r\nI can\'t speak for Japan or New Zealand, but I know that between its commitments in Afghanistan, Bosnia, and a couple of smaller overseas postings, Canada really doesn\'t have troops standing around with nothing to do at the moment. \r\n\r\nhttp://www.snappingturtle.net/jmc/flit/2003_05_01_archive.html#94943654\r\n\r\nCounting other countries\' armed forces is like counting other people\'s money: unless you are damn sure of all your facts, don\'t.','2003-06-08 02:52:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3423,1,3594,'62.253.128.6','Alexander','hokie04693@yahoo.com','','Something I\'ve learned from the Navy: \"If it ain\'t in print, it ain\'t gonna happen.\"\r\n\r\nIn fact, when we join up, we don\'t sign a contract, though I don\'t know the term, it\'s not a contract. We agree to do what our leadership tells us with respect to rules and regulations, but we are not guaranteed to get anything in return (not even wages). If there\'s one organization that needs help in telling the truth, it\'s the military recruiters. Yes, I know, I\'m painting the good as well as the bad, but I think the good are in the minority.\r\n\r\nNow with that, am I upset I joined? Nope, I\'ve enjoyed... well most of it, plus I get the great feeling that I\'m contributing something to our society.','2003-06-08 08:22:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3424,1,3604,'68.161.101.104','Matthew Yglesias','matt@matthewyglesias.com','http://www.MatthewYglesias.com','Good post, but just to be clear about the impact of the Khmer Rouge, it was the anti-Communist government of the United States that supported the rise of the pro-Chinese K.R. as a counterweight to the pro-Soviet Vietnamese Communist movement. It was also the United States that tried valiantly in the UN to prevent Vietnam from invading Cambodia and ending the bloodshed.','2003-06-08 20:02:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3425,1,3604,'216.73.131.240','BMcBurney','bmcburney@fgpp.com','','The comment by Matthew Yglesias is an outrageous lie. Saddly, it is also typical of the type of analysis we get from those infected by Comsky Induced Amensia Syndrom (CIAS).\r\n\r\nThe United States supported the anti-communist Lon Nol Government in every possible way until it was overthrown by the Khmer Rouge in 1975. The Cambodian geocide commenced immediately after the fall of that Government. During the \"killing fields\" period the United States Government opposed, and every left wing existance supported, the Khemer Rouge. \r\n\r\nIt is true that the genocide was eventually terminated by communist government of Vietnam. However, the underlying dispute between pro-Soviet Vietnam and the pro-Chinese Khemer Rouge was hardly based on the great respect for human rights felt by the Vietnamese. Please note, that although the anti-Chinese feelings in Hanoi lead to the end of the \"killing fields\" those feelings also led to the persecution of ethnic Chinese in Vietnam and added significantly to the humanitarian disaster of the \"boat people\" episode. ','2003-06-08 20:47:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3426,1,3604,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Hmm, on the one hand the \"Khmer Rouge\" question is a digression - irrelevant to the Congo argument in every way. On the other hand, I\'m not prepared to let Matthew Yglesias\' response stand unchallenged. BMcBurney, good start - thanks.\r\n\r\nMatt... 2-3 million Cambodians die at the hands of fanatical Maoists backed by China, and it\'s America\'s fault? This also evades the point I was making, which is the failure of this event (or the \"boat people\" mass exodus from Vietnam) to shake the lib-left\'s general faith in their views and the consequences of same. In some ways, actually, this response is a good illustration.\r\n\r\nI can\'t see why a similar debacle in the Congo would have more effect on the lib-left mindset - except that Bosnia has already created a mental wedge.\r\n\r\nI also have a bone to pick with the Cambodian history you present. Some support for these views on your end would have been nice. As for the \"we spawned the Khmer Rouge\" stuff...\r\n\r\n\"on March 18, 1970 -- one year to the day after the first U.S. bombing strike -- he was overthrown in a coup led by Lon Nol and Prince Sirik Matak. The new regime was instantly recognized by Washington; the Americans surmised, correctly, that Lon Nol would be willing to permit more aggressive moves against the sanctuaries. Meanwhile, on March 23, Sihanouk announced that he would join his former enemies -- the Khmer Rouge -- in a bid to overthrow Lon Nol. The battle lines were drawn.\" (Bruce Sharp)\r\n\r\nLon Nol was a strongly pro-America General, long in favour of aggressive action against the Vietnamese and, as you can see, the Khmer Rouge.\r\n\r\nRead, too, Stanley Karnow\'s \"Vietnam: A History.\" It notes that: \r\n\r\n\"The Cambondian Communists, originally organized and trained by their Vietnamese comrades, began to assert their autonomy in the early 1970s\" (p44).\r\n\r\nLater, he goes on to mention that:\r\n\r\n\"Early in 1969, after Sihanouk acquiesced to the American bombing of their sanctuaries, the North Vietnamese had expected him to swing against them completely. They had been arming and training guerillas of the Khmer Rouge - the Cambodian Communist movement- in North Vietnam. To exert pressure on Sihanouk, they infiltrated a Khmer Rouge force of some 12,000 back into Cambodia, spurring an incipient civil war...\" (p604)\r\n\r\nThese accounts from one of the definitive books about the war do not square with your account. If the Americans helped the Khmer Rouge in the belief that this would aid their war against Vietnam, they not only had to betray Lon Nol and Sihanouk, they also got suckered to the max. So, if you want the claim to be credible... how about providing some real support for it?\r\n\r\nFinally, moving on to the obvious:\r\n\r\n\"tried valiantly in the UN to prevent...\" Isn\'t that an oxymoron? \r\n\r\nIf the UN is the limits of your trying, you\'re not serious about preventing anything. Especially during the Cold War, when nobody even pretended that the UN had any real infuence (that\'s the biggest difference: these days, they pretend). If the USA realy wanted to prevent stuff, Afghanistan is an example. Guatemala, Iran, Greece, Berlin, Nicaragua. That\'s prevention.\r\n\r\nThe UN is not. Then, or now. As I fear the Congo is about to make very clear. I hope I\'m wrong - but I don\'t think so.','2003-06-08 22:10:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3427,1,3604,'172.202.208.239','Giles','gilward@hotmail.com','http://www.gpwgpw.blogspot.com/','In your prescription, I think you overestimate the importance of \"massive overweling firepower\"\r\n\r\nAs the South Africans and mercenary groups have repeatedly shown and the British and French occaisionaly (IC, SL) relatively small lightly armed forces can acheive a great deal in Africa \r\n\r\nThe real issue is whether the force has the required ruthless ness, military and political. ','2003-06-08 22:13:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3428,1,3604,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','The clarity and will required are of course the fundamental issues. Without them, it doesn\'t matter how much firepower one has.\r\n\r\nThe force I advocate is about more than firepower, it\'s also about mobility in a very, very large country. Air strikes would give Special Forces a much bigger punch all over the country. Armor and helicopters give fast reaction time, the ability to quickly address multiple threats with less dispersion of one\'s forces (dispersion makes them more vulnerable), and also make village-based CAP efforts more viable.\r\n\r\nI advocate the accompanying firepower for several reasons. One is that, like Somalia, a serious intervention in this case could find the international forces at odds with entire clans/tribes. If that happens, the backup had better be there. If it\'s there, and used, major clashes will only happen once or twice until word gets around. That\'s reason one.\r\n\r\nSecond, because it\'s necessary to keep an international coalition together. Single-state actors can absorb setbacks, coalitions can too but only as long as nobody feels they were hung out to dry. If support is there, and used, everyone will be bolder and no-one will feel abandoned come what may. A serious force would also deter neighbouring states from game-playing, also an important goal in this particular situation.\r\n\r\nFinally, the composition suggested allows different nations to contribute different things: air power, helicopters, troops, armored vehicles and crews, etc. Communication would be a nightmare and response efficiency would be pitiful by American standards - but compared to their opponents, they\'d still look great.\r\n\r\nCould intervention be done without this level of backup? Maybe. Would I plan it that way? Not if I could help it. This effort looks chancy enough without adding to that.\r\n\r\nOf course, the real question right now is: will France, China, India, Italy, Indonesia, Turkey, Egypt and other nations with large militaries and/or funds actually step up and provide a force like this when the USA is too stretched to do so? I think I know the answer already, but let\'s wait and see.','2003-06-08 22:38:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3429,1,3604,'203.45.127.72','wretchard','wretchardthecat@hotmail.com','http://belmontclub.blogspot.com','The more fundamental problem for the UN mission is that their logistical bases are located within the territories of the masterminds of this conflict. The Hema and Lendu tribal milities are mere proxies for the Rwandan and Ugandan governments who are vying for control of the mineral-rice northeastern corner of the Democratic Republic of the Congo; and it is through these countries that the UN lifeline goes.\r\n\r\nIndeed, without the cooperation of Rwanda and Uganda, it would be doubtful if the European UN force could supply it\'s airhead in Bunia at all, given that the town is 800 miles from the nearest coastline. The militias have demonstrated the possession of mortars, and it would go ill with the Uruguayans and the EU force if they were to attempt to clear the militias, with their airhead vulnerable to bombardment and the support airfields in Rwandan or Ugandan territory.\r\n\r\nYet if the UN and the European Union were to take the bull by the horns, it might be possible to rout the cannibal militias. For the supply lines of the militias lead east and south, too, back to Rwanda and Uganda, across the Great Rift Valley across difficult terrain obstructed by the great lakes Edward and Albert on the other side of the Blue Mountains watershed.\r\n\r\nThe first step, would of course be to create an alternative line of supply through territory that is not compromised by the squabble over the control of the disintegrating Democratic Republic of the Congo. If the UN were willing, the Europeans could seize or negotiate forward airbases in Kenya or the southern Sudan and simply overfly Uganda whether the Ugandans agreed or not. \r\n\r\nThe second step would be to deploy an airmobile battalion, possibly based in Bunia, to conduct deep attacks on the lines of communication of the Hema and Lendu and raid their leadership centers. In order to prevent another repetition of the \"Blackhaw Down\" incident in Somalia, the Europeans must ensure the availability of heavy close air support, possibly with the cooperation of the United States. AC-130s would be ideal for this fire support mission. This would give the UN enough leverage force the Rwandans and Ugandans to compel the disarmament of the militias, as part of restoring peace in the region.\r\n\r\nUnfortunately, the UN and the EU have opted for a public relations exercise aimed at deflecting the accusation that they are leaving hundreds of thousands of Africans to their deaths, which is precisely what they are actually doing. By perpetrating this charade, they are not only abetting genocide, they are doing so with deception and malice aforethought.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-09 00:31:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3430,1,3605,'68.40.144.136','Dean Esmay','dean@deanesmay.com','http://www.deanesmay.com','The best thing about Glenn\'s roundup? His use of the term \"bogosity.\" :-)','2003-06-09 01:02:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3431,1,3605,'66.32.178.168','clue','clue@bcke.com','','That\'s funny, I was just about to suggest that as the most idiot part of Insty\'s post.\r\n\r\nHe does himself and his readership an intellectual disservice by reacting only to the \"Bush Lied!\" camp. There is in fact very great cause to be extraordinarily concerned about our inability to turn up a single germ or toxin. Insty\'s predictable indignation and Howard Owen\'s more reasoned responses aside, there are in general only two possibilites, both of which are very bad news.\r\n\r\nPossiblity 1: There are no weapons of mass destruction. There are a subsequent number of possibilities as to why the Bush and Blair administrations and various (though by no means most) intelligence agencies asserted in the strongest terms that there were--among these theories the \"Bush Lied!\" camp, but also several more plausible scenarios. However, it all comes down to some combination of incompetence and/or lies.\r\n\r\nPossiblity 2: There are weapons of mass destruction, and we don\'t know where they are. Honestly, I think I prefer possibilty 1, because at least I don\'t have to wonder who toddled off with a few thousand liters of VX. The possibilty exists that they could still be hidden in situ, but the notion that the kinds of quantities that the administration was claiming existed could still be hidden in Iraq, at this date, with full run of the country and numerous government and military personnel up and down the chain in custody, stretches credibility.\r\n\r\nThe point has been made that the strongest indication that the Bush administration itself does not believe that significant quantities of WMDs are still in Iraq is said administration\'s failure to emphasize the danger that the weapons pose should they fall (or have fallen) into the wrong hands before their discovery by friendly forces.','2003-06-09 06:23:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3432,1,3605,'66.32.178.168','clue','clue@bcke.com','','And, sigh, that was supposed to be \"idiotic\".','2003-06-09 06:24:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3433,1,3593,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Interesting tidbit - Charlie Wilson\'s actual quote isn\'t the same as the one he\'s credited for. At his Senate confirmation hearing, Wilson actually said: \"For years, I thought what was good for our country was good for General Motors -- and vice versa.\"\r\n\r\nImportant change in emphasis and primacy there. That said, I don\'t have a lot of patience for the activities you describe here.','2003-06-09 08:01:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3434,1,2982,'203.31.213.161','anon1','asbeb@hotmail.com','','We don\'t want Islamofascists down under, despite what The Greens and the Labour Party and the Democrats have to say.','2003-06-09 08:04:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3435,1,3593,'209.83.111.74','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','If the War On Some Drugs is a not valid activity (it is not, \r\nsee http://windsofchange.net/archives/003370.html )\r\n then the best way to economically impact the Burmese government\r\n is to legalize the distibution of opiates to those who want them.\r\n','2003-06-09 11:48:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3436,1,3591,'208.20.220.69','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','No defense of Ashcroft\'s amicus brief could satisfy me. The real problems arise from the attempt to determine how far the responsibility for the participation of slave labor extends.\r\n\r\nMany products consumed in the U.S. are made in countries that tolerate or actively employ slave labor. To what extent does the individual consumer bear the odium for the enslavement of a worker whose products he buys? Does it matter whether the purchase is made knowingly or unknowingly?\r\n\r\nThe question is important, because it bears on whether the use of government\'s ability to close the borders to such goods would be morally defensible -- or morally obligatory.\r\n\r\nI can\'t find it in me to hold consumers responsible for conditions they did not know about and would not knowingly support, but once knowledge is added to the balances, the situation becomes much murkier. And of course, a multinational corporation that uses forced labor has no moral defense.\r\n\r\nBut does this add up to a case for embargoing goods made in other countries, if they might have been made, in whole or in part, by forced labor? Suppose forced labor wasn\'t involved in \"proximate\" production, but was used in producing the raw materials that went into the products? What about subassemblies? How certain do we have to be about the knowing, willing collusion of responsible executives with slavemasters before we place blame and penalties? Ought the penalties to affect only knowledgeable executives, or ought the stockholders to be held responsible as well, whether they knew or not? Where does the line properly go?\r\n\r\nI\'m still not sure -- and I\'d be extremely wary of anyone who delivered a simple, uniform answer in a tone of moral righteousness.\r\n','2003-06-09 12:18:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3437,1,3587,'68.32.117.88','Candace','skullcrusher@s-mail.com','http://www.skullcrusher.tk','One of the problems that the UN faces in dealing with genocide lies in how it defines \'genocide\'. According to the official UN deffinition, an act cannot be called genocide if it\'s against a political or socio-economic group. If that\'s not loophole saying \"tyrants slaughter the masses here\" then I don\'t know what is.','2003-06-09 13:11:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3438,1,3610,'63.189.1.29','Bart Hall (Kansas, USA)','bart.hall@prairiestarfarm.com','','It seems to mee that the problem is much deeper (and of much longer standing) than you suggest. In that respect, the muslim problem is simply the latest fruiting-body of a mushroom with very deep and widespread hyphae (roots).\r\n\r\nI spreak French with near-native fluency and lived in \'la francophonie\' for nearly 15 years. I have worked in former third-world colonies of England, Spain, and France. In my opinion, most former English colonies have it reasonably well together, most of the time, even in Africa. The Spanish colonies are a mixed bag, and the former French colonies are pretty universally rough.\r\n\r\nOne need look no farther than Jamaica, Republica Dominicana, and Haiti -- all starting with nearly identical racial and geographic situations and resources -- to see a living illustration of my point.\r\n\r\nFrance itself has had more lurching changes than some former Spanish colonies. I think that part of the problem is that French concepts of individual and property rights are generally weak (in regard to the government) and the French legal system generally stinks.\r\n\r\nThe French have within that system developed an oppressive bureaucracy that is supercilious, elitist, detached, and domineering. Bureaucrats are well-paid, have (or learn how to take) numerous fringe benefits, get to retire early, and are impossible to get rid of. Mothers swell with pride and say, \"Mon fils est bureaucrate.\" (my son is a bureaucrat). Only in french have I heard government officials say (with a completely straight face) \"We have our best technocrats working on the problem, don\'t worry.\"\r\n\r\nTo follow the legal requirements to register a property for transfer in Haiti, for just one example, requires hundreds of steps and nearly twenty years (based on stated regulatory delays at each step).\r\n\r\nAll through \'la francophonie\' employment and what little entrepreneurship there is possible is closely regulated by a system of Regies (no good english equivalent, but \'para-governmental control committee\' is close). There is no incentive to create a job because you can almost never get rid of an employee, no matter how bad the employee or over-arching economic conditions.\r\n\r\nIn Quebec, bureaucrats removed all Passover-kosher foods from the shelves in Montreal because the labels didn\'t look \'french\' enough. Montreal has several hundred thousand Jews, about a third of them Hassidim. This was thinly veiled anti-Semitism, and a far-from-unique example thereof.\r\n\r\nOf the sixty states/provinces in the US and Canada, Quebec ranks firmly at the bottom as a place to establish a business.\r\n\r\nI could go on (and on), but I hope you\'re getting the point. The entire socio-political culture of the French-thinking world has massive problems -- and has had them for generations.\r\n\r\nIt is entirely typical that Valery Giscard d\'Estaing recently tried to sneak into the European constitution (currently under development) a provision that would have allowed the thing to be amended by a select committee without ratification by any of the member government.\r\n\r\nTotalement pourri et sensiblement malin. [totally rotten, and palpably malignant/maligne/evil]. ','2003-06-09 13:53:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3439,1,3610,'63.189.1.29','Bart','bart.hall@prairiestarfarm.com','','OMISSION above -- Para. 4, line 1 -- ... more lurching changes __of_government__ than some former Spanish colonies.','2003-06-09 13:58:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3440,1,3591,'216.68.253.1','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com','Do you have a non-commentary source for this?','2003-06-09 14:21:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3441,1,3610,'145.254.140.41','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\n\"Law and order have disappeared\"\r\n\r\nmurdered people on 100.000 citizens (1998):\r\n\r\nFrance: 0,9\r\nUSA: 6,6\r\n\r\nso in france there is no law and order - my god what a hell must be going on in the united states, do you have anarchy there?','2003-06-09 14:27:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3442,1,3604,'192.189.236.20','Dean','sunzi36@yah00.com','','Wretchard, \r\n\r\nUnfortunately, I think the same fundamental problem you identify for UN intervention (logistics) would also plague any kind of intervention by the US. \r\n\r\nSince Congo is land-locked, any logistics effort to support a force would HAVE to pass through one or more of its neighbors, few of whom seem to have an incentive to truly stop the conflict. \r\n\r\nMore importantly, for Joe Katzman\'s force, you\'d be talking about a massive effort. The tonnages involved for maintaining helicopters and mechanized forces (as compared to light infantry) is enormous. Unfortunately, my understanding of African infrastructure suggests that there is neither a road nor rail network that could sustain such a supply line. And its length means that it would be enormously vulnerable to any group unhappy with the intervention. \r\n\r\nThis is apart from the further infrastructure required to keep air support available on a regular scale. While long-range bombers (e.g., B-52s) could fly from Diego Garcia or even the US, A-10s and F-15Es would have to be based in-theater----in a region which neither flies such aircraft, nor where we have basing rights (i.e., prepositioned stocks of parts). \r\n\r\nOf course, this would all be exacerbated further, if the force wasn\'t a coupla battalions, but entire divisions or even corps (not completely unthinkable, given the size of the place). \r\n\r\nAll of this suggests that any Western-style intervention (as opposed to UN beret-waving) would require enormous planning, and even more extensive diversion of resources. The closest equivalent that comes to mind would be the infrastructure build-up for Vietnam (remembering that Cam Ranh Bay was a sleepy sea-side port in 1963 or so), in order to sustain the kind of intervention that Joe and you are suggesting. And, even there, the port was IN-COUNTRY. \r\n\r\nColor me skeptical....\r\n\r\nWhether we\'d be prepared to sustain such a multi-year effort, ','2003-06-09 14:40:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3443,1,3610,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Maxim:\r\n\r\nCould you please amplify your comments?','2003-06-09 15:00:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3444,1,3604,'24.128.64.66','Keating Willcox','kwillcox@shore.net','http://www.wnsh.com','The Congo, as well as other African military conflicts, have no real end in sight. They have the capacity to absorb an unlimited number of outside troops, UN or not. And, there are trees, lots of trees. Is this important? Well, the US military, or any modern military force equally equipped, can win any battle in the desert with almost no casualties. And any conflict in the mountains, almost no casualties. But in a dense forest environment, we are back to being blind, simply targets for any guerilla warfare. I would not be willing to serve in any military force that is going into a jungle to keep order.\r\n\r\nAre there reasonable solutions? Yes, entirely humanitarian....food packets delivered to areas of refugees, small water purification devices delivered to the same areas,and occasional air-drops of easy to use medical supplies. Taken by private agencies or airlifted directly to where the refugees are.\r\n\r\nThat\'s it. Cheap, available now, moral, zero casualties for us, and a realization that these unbelievable wars and the culture of warfare in Africa is their own doing, and their own responsibility. We can do our best to take care of refugees, and let the others fight until they are exhausted, and ready to make peace.','2003-06-09 15:49:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3445,1,3610,'66.129.135.82','xavier','buscaraons@netscape.net','http://www.buscaraons.blogspot.com','Bart:\r\nWith respect to Quebec, you make the lack of entrepreneuralism is something essentialist in the French character. It\'s not. After all Charest\'s election was a signal that the Quebec population is fed up with the old statist model and want some major transformations. Whether that\'ll happen is really up to us; yet there\'s a real desire for change. It won\'t be the thatcherite style revolution that Anglophone will recognize but it\'ll still a signficant idelogical shake up for the Francophonie mentality.\r\n\r\nxavier ','2003-06-09 16:35:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3446,1,3610,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Reminds me of an important point my history teacher Neil MacLean once made: we think of \"law and order\" as going together. The 2 are actually seperate - one can have law without order, and social order without law. Failure to realize that often confuses our debates.\r\n\r\nMaxim\'s comments are a simple \"people who live in glass houses\" warning. Taken. For a fuller picture, however, one would also have to note that there are many place French police simply will not go any more. That\'s a powerful indicator of disorder, something that speaks to the nadir of the U.S. experience with its urban centers in the 1970s. No wonder the Americans gasp when they hear that, given the associations it raises. Couple it with the unintegrated Muslim demographic time-bomb, and the massive public sector \"no longer servants and no longer civil\" strikes that bring to mind the worst years of Britain, and France really is in trouble. Bart\'s points and comments are well taken in that light.\r\n\r\nBut collapse, Trent? Societies are very resilient things. Nigeria is a pest-hole, but even that hasn\'t collapsed. You have to get to Afghanistan, Congo, or Somalia to get real collapse, and France is a very long way from that. Political turmoil and economic consequences? Lots. Wrenching change? Yes. (Ah but what kind... and here our crystal balls darken.) Collapse? No.','2003-06-09 17:33:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3447,1,3610,'63.206.168.183','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','Maxim\'s post assumes that French statistics are not merely honest, but accurate. Neither are true. And he knows that if he is French.\r\n\r\nOfficial European crime statistics are political fabrications, including those of Britain.','2003-06-09 18:03:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3448,1,3610,'63.88.212.164','Michael J. Totten','michaeltotten001@yahoo.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','Whoa there, Trent. \r\n\r\nTeaching the French colonial era in school is not self-hate. It just is not. It is no more inappropriate for France to teach colonialism than it is for American teachers to assign Mark Twain\'s novels against slavery.\r\n\r\nIt is true that France wallows in self-loathing, but your \"fourth root\" cited above is not evidence of it. It appears you think France should stop teaching the truth of its own history, which is another way of saying the French should lie. \r\n\r\nI don\'t think that\'s what you mean, but it appears so. ','2003-06-09 18:50:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3449,1,3610,'62.78.148.207','JH','jussimhamalainen@luukku.com','','The line on \'leftist teachers\' was said by French politician Alain Madelin.My interpretation of it is that this is an identity question:The teachers in France,according to Madelin, are treating young Muslims not as French,but as members of a separate group who have a legitimate grievance against France because of its actions,in the past,against other Muslims.\r\n\r\nHowever,the quote is vague enough to allow several interpretations.My take is that Madelin wasn\'t just referring to pupils being told facts of history;that doesn\'t seem like something that he would oppose in itself.Of course,I could be wrong.','2003-06-09 19:10:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3450,1,3610,'145.254.140.108','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\nthanks to joe for amplyfieing my comment.\r\n\r\nthe point is: you tell us about the \'death\' of france - WHY do you do, and WHICH facts can you present us?\r\n\r\nexplorering your psychie is not my job, so i won\'t speculate WHY you want us believe in the \'death of france\', but giving facts which fit in reality should not only be my job.\r\n\r\nsometimes it seems to me you are living in a bubble, not realizing nor willing to realize the world outside of this.\r\nthe \'death\' of france is something that could happen in your imagination, but not in THIS world in the forseeable future.\r\n\r\nspeculating about problems one society can face is one thing, but giving incorrect analysis together with wrong assumtions is another.\r\n\r\nyou believe because you WANT to believe. you can not do analysis with this point of view.\r\n\r\nmodern liberal societies face various problems because of various reasons, one would be the integration of immegrants and problems with unintegratet and illegal aliens. these are problems the whole western world is going to face - and american should know about their own problems with immigrants and illegals.\r\nyou should\'nt be blind on one eye and forget the problems you are talking about are problems not only france is going to face.\r\nare you really aware of the problems of unintegratet hispanics? you can look out in the future and ask those who are experts in social questions, and they tell you in not too far future \'new mexico\', \'texas\' will be mexican again, not because of different borders, but because of changed societies. and these societies cause problems, because they are mainly uneducated and poor.\r\nyou should be aware of these facts before looking at ONE western country and telling us these are problems only this country alone will face.\r\n\r\nthere are problems that are solely french problems - but there are others that are solely german, solely british and solely us-american ones.\r\n\r\nand should you be the one who speaks about not enough \'law and order\' in foreign countries?\r\nyou should watch your \'law\', your \'order\' and your \'safety\' before telling us about enormous problems others are facing.\r\nyou have \'law\'s that can cause the collaps of a company because of damage compensations.\r\nyou have the \'order\' with the highest rate of prisoners in the industrialized world - together with a poor meaning of \'security\'. crime rates in the US are often a few times higher than in other western countries, i told you about the rate of murder.\r\n\r\nyou can acknowledge the problems the WHOLE western world has to face in the future and in the present, or you can close you\'re eyes on your own problems and on these general problems and look out to problems the french will face and hope you\'ll see the death of them, but you will wake up baleful if you are doing so.\r\n\r\nyou should find the way out of this bubble. who searches will find, and if you\'re going to look for signals of the arising of guinea as a world power you will find these signlas, but this is not the way of serious analysis which let you know better than others.\r\nyou should be aware that closing your eyes for some parts of the problems and only looking on some others will be the way to a baleful awakeing.\r\n\r\nfor those who want to know: i am not french, but german. i am living in a small town (juelich) near cologne.\r\n\r\n ','2003-06-09 19:43:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3451,1,3610,'169.237.24.241','FH','scbaird@ucdavis.edu','','Couple of points to make:\r\n\r\n1. France isn\'t a liberal democracy anymore. They are a leftist/Gaullist technocracy now. The power of the people to organize and try and control government is pretty much non-existent. I suggest that you read Steven Den Beste\'s web site to see some examples of how France isn\'t a democracy but an oligarchy.\r\n\r\n2. Hispanic people living in the US are much closer ethnically, culturally and religiously to \"mainstream\" America than North African Muslims are to \"mainstream\" France. This means in the US that Mexiancs and other Latinos are able to integrate easier, and that society is much liklier to accept their integration. Arab, North African Muslims come from a completely different culture than French people, and thus the two will have trouble living together.\r\n\r\n3. France\'s current welfare state is extremely unstable, the reason why the strikes are going on is because of reforms that the government tried to pass to keep the system floating. If the reforms fail then the system will collapse. Yet the \"public servants\" will not accept these reforms because it will be the first time in living memory where the government would actually make things tougher for civil servants. Progress means that things are supposed to get easier on everybody, remember? Yet the current system will not work, the demographics don\'t allow it, and the economy prevents it. \r\n\r\nI for one think that France will survive this. But I also feel that it will be much weaker afterward. The people who know what the problems in France are and are trying to solve them don\'t have the power they need, and the government is full of cowards. So I suspect that the government will back off many of its reforms. France will survive, for now. Joe, in regards to the resilience of a society, think how bad things could have been if the Great Depression hadn\'t led to FDR\'s presidency. I think you overestimate the sheer economic shock that France could experience. I don\'t think France will die per se, but I do think you could end up with something similar to Russia, with very few regions under real government control\r\n\r\nOk, enough rambling for now.','2003-06-09 21:06:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3452,1,3610,'62.246.5.82','Miranda','quitecontrary@vodkaorange.com','http://mirandica.blogspot.com','In my experience, regarding the FPM as a serious source on European affairs is the next best thing to deriving information on Israel from some \"electronic intifada\".\r\n\r\n\r\nTom --\r\n\r\nif I interprete what you were trying to say correctly, where does the amazing notion that European crime statistics (all of them, I assume?) are cooked to such a degree that were they true the official murder rate in France would be worse than the one in the US come from?\r\n','2003-06-09 21:35:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3453,1,3610,'145.254.140.108','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\nyou see signals for the french getting in a situation russia was in 1992?\r\n\r\ngo on try to find signals the US will be, and you will find [trade deficit, enormous debts (those of the country and those of the citizens are the highest in the western world), increasing joblessness which means often personal ruin for those who lose their job (thats different in europe where you have efficient insurances), the decrease of the industry etc.]. but you will get a wrong picture if you focus on this, because these are not the only facts that move the world.\r\nand there\'s the same problem with your \'french has problems\' \'analysis\' - you forget an amount of factors.\r\n\r\nyou don\'t believe in european statistics? [by the way can I believe any longer in you president?]\r\nthen go on and read other ones:\r\n\r\nmurders per 100.000 citizens:\r\n\r\nazebaijan: 4,7\r\ntajikistan: 6,1\r\nhungary: 2,9\r\njapan: 0,6\r\ngreat britan: 0,7 [oh, sorry this is EU, too. i think it is cooked]\r\nargentina: 4,6\r\nUSA: 6,6\r\n\r\nin relation to the US the \'law and order\' in the collapsing society of azerbajian must be enormous - how do they exercise their cops?','2003-06-09 22:10:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3454,1,3610,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','In a way, \"societal failure\" analyses for countries like France are similar to those Club of Rome studies that said the world\'s oil would be running out about now. \r\n\r\nYes, the things mentioned in this article will create disruptions and failures. Whereupon, the system has enough self-correction in it to adapt. It may not adapt well. It may not adapt smoothly. It may not remain as strong. But adapt it will.\r\n\r\nLaw and Order becomes too big a problem in French cities? You get the rise of a LePen, and if it continues you can guess how the problems will be dealt with. Public service forces the government into an untenable economic position? Then the bill comes, sooner or later, and instead of reforming the bureaucracy\'s priviliged position they may shatter it or at least crack it badly. Failure piled on failure? Never forget that this is a nation that has always exported intellectuals. It would be an irony indeed if the France neocons like myself love to hate becomes the next intellectual and cultural center of the movement - but it\'s not impossible to imagine that.\r\n\r\nFrance won\'t die. Weaken, yes. But the article isn\'t titled \"The Weakening of France.\" The cracks are easy for an analyst to see, the equally important sources and levers of stability not so easy but every bit as important, and the way the system will adapt long-term almost unforseeable.\r\n\r\nAs a wise being once said: \"always in motion is the future.\"','2003-06-09 22:27:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3455,1,3611,'68.48.20.182','Ray','ray@princeton.edu','http://campuscgi.princeton.edu/~ray/weblog/','I am the child of two professors, and I have never, in all my years, heard the American Association of University Professors mentioned at the dinner table. \r\n\r\nI suspect that, like paying attention to school board elections, the politics of such organizations are run by the few who have the time and the inclination to be interested. ','2003-06-09 22:57:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3456,1,3610,'203.45.127.72','wretchard','wretchardthecat@hotmail.com','http://belmontclub.blogspot.com','Maxim,\r\n\r\nThe murder rate for Britain is not 0.7\r\n\r\nIt is double that. The BBC quoting Home Office figures, says: \"Home Office figures showed the murder rate in the US in 1998 was 6.3 per 100,000 people compared with 1.4 per 100,000 in England and Wales.\"\r\n\r\nhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/810522.stm\r\n','2003-06-09 23:33:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3457,1,3591,'204.124.240.254','T. Hartin','zgolem@yahoo.com','','I don\'t know enough at this point to have an opinion on whether Ashcroft is wrong on this one. However, it might not be as simple and straightforward as some would have it. \r\n\r\nThe US courts should not become a forum for foreign nationals to slug out their legal disputes with one another that have no real nexus with the US. To allow this to happen will lead to a couple of bad results. \r\n\r\nFirst, it will tend to legitimate the intervention of the courts of other nations in matters to which they have no real nexus. Exhibit A here is, of course, the attempts to sue US nationals in Belgian courts for alleged human rights abuses in Iraq and Afghanistan. Just as the Belgian courts have no business hearing cases against US citizens for alleged violations in foreign countries that have not harmed any Belgian citizens (that we know of, anyway), the US courts have no business hearing cases against, say, Burmese citizens for alleged violations in Burma that have not harmed US citizens.\r\n\r\nThe second reason has to do with maintaining the legitimacy of US courts. A court is only legitimate when deciding matters within its jurisdiction. Just as the Belgian courts have no jurisdiction over matters involving US nationals in Iraq and Afghanistan, it is hard to see the basis for any US jurisdiction over matters which are purely internal to, say, Burma. Overextending your jurisdiction is a good way to piss away your legitimacy.\r\n\r\nNow, there may be good reasons for US courts to exert jurisdiction over Burmese scumbags, but their mere status as scumbags does not make them subject to the jurisdiction of any court with a hankering to smack them around. We have jurisdiction over Osama bin Laden because he, or his agents, committed a tort on US soil. I\'m not sure what basis we have for exerting jurisdiction over these Burmese warlords, but the question should not be passed over lightly in our eagerness to open up a can of legal whupass on them.\r\n\r\nNow, Unocal we do have jurisdiction over, so if Unocal can be shown to be legally responsible for the abuses in Burma, they should fry. There may be a tryable case here, but at some point we have to recognize limits to the jurisdiction of US courts, unless we truly do want to be globocop.','2003-06-09 23:35:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3458,1,3591,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','T. Hartin, your last 2 paragraphs summarize my position well. \r\n\r\nIf this is the position, however, then the Amicus brief should seek simply to prevent extension of the existing legal doctrine and let Unocal stand or fall on its own after that. Yet that doesn\'t seem to be what Ashcroft has done.\r\n\r\nOf course, I\'m not a lawyer and I could be wrong. Any lawyers out there who think that IS what Ashcroft did here?','2003-06-09 23:43:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3459,1,3610,'145.254.133.237','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\nbecareful: this is only the rate of england and wales, i gave those of whole britan.\r\ni do not know where the bbc gets it\'s data, i have mine from an United Nations report. if you are interested in this more deeply you should ask the statsitical offices in each country, i think this data would be the accuratest one.\r\n\r\nbut you see the point, no matter which data you take: the murder-rate in the US is a few times higher then in the whole western world. does this mean they have anarchy and will collaps soon? no. does this mena their system of \'law and order\' is inefficient? yes, i think so.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-06-10 00:13:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3460,1,3591,'204.124.240.254','T. Hartin','zgolem@yahoo.com','','As always, the critical legal issue is buried in weasel words. In my post, I posed the question as \"if Unocal can be shown to be legally responsible for the abuses in Burma.\" I don\'t really know what it would take for Unocal to be \"legally responsible,\" but as a rule you are legally responsible for the actions of anyone that you hire to do something, such as provide security, for you. The basic idea is that the employer is vicariously liable for the actions of their employee. \r\n\r\nHow that would play out in the context of a case where the \"employee\" is a sovereign government that is generally immune from lawsuits is a mystery to me, but generally speaking, there has to be primary liability on the employee before the employer can be held vicariously liable.','2003-06-10 00:16:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3461,1,3610,'172.154.164.137','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','There was a recent report I read published by some European organization that addressed Europe\'s economic future and without massive societal/governmental change, Europe is not looking good. I cannot remember if it was addressing specifically Europe or just France. \r\n\r\nIf anyone knows what report I\'m referencing, please post it! It was sobering.','2003-06-10 01:22:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3462,1,3591,'24.90.107.21','Randy Paul','randinho@yahoo.com','http://beautifulhorizons.blogspot.com','I am not a lawyer, either, but I think that there are two issues here that merit attention.\r\n\r\n1.) The issue of timing or in other words, why now, why this case? As I mentioned in my original post, the Reagan administration did not fle an amicus brief on the Filartiga case, this administration did not file an amicus brief in Presbyterian Church of Sudan, et al. v. Talisman Energy Inc. and they haven\'t filed an amicus brief in Raymonde Abrams v. Societe Nationale Des Chemins De Fer Francais.\r\n\r\n2.) The fact that an amicus brief has been filed at all. What is so compelling about this case that the DOJ has to address this issue on behalf of an American oil company now, especially after the administration is touting its accomplishments as a protector of human rights in Iraq and vigorously asserting that the Iraq war had nothing to do with oil? Are they that blind to perceptions?\r\n\r\nIt just doesn\'t pass the smell test for me.\r\n\r\nRegarding universal jurisdiction, I do know that this has been in existence for some time. Piracy has for centuries been subject to universal jurisdiction. The Convention Against Torture and the Convention Against Genocide also call for universal jurisdiction by the state parties that are signatories and have ratified these documents. The Pinochet case in the UK confirmed that regarding the CAT.\r\n\r\nWhile the Torture Victims Protection Act may provide some relief in certain circumstances, it seems it would be time barred in this case, and secondly, it requires proof that the victim has exhausted all remedies in their home nation. How can these peasants in Burma attempt to pursue their claims in a Burmese court?\r\n\r\nAccording to Earth Rights, \"in September of 2002, a federal appeals court held that the plaintiffs had presented evidence that Unocal knowingly provided substantial assistance to the military in its commission of forced labor, murder and rape, while the military secured the project and built project infrastructure. Accordingly, the court held that Unocal could be held liable for aiding and abetting the military’s abuses.\"\r\n\r\nWhy not let it go forward?','2003-06-10 01:59:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3463,1,3604,'24.80.23.100','Jay Currie','jay-currie@shaw.ca','http://www.jaycurrie.com','Keating,\r\n\r\nI suspect you are a bit pessimistic in your assesement of what could be done if the West really put in an effort. Trees are not an insurmountable problem. But I agree that the likelihood of anything more than a pure PR exercise is dim.\r\n\r\nI would suggest an addition to your refugee relief suggestions. Create well protected zones where refugees could be safe and in those zones train and arm a force which would first, take over the protection of the zones, second, begin to expand the zones.\r\n\r\nWhile fighting a guerilla war is not at all acceptable, protecting the victims of such a war and creating a counter force to take over that protection makes moral and political sense. \r\n\r\nIt would also make miltary sense in that while Western advantages in airpower and armoured strength would simply be lost in the jungle, they can provide truly awesome perimeter defence.','2003-06-10 03:40:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3464,1,3591,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Randy - Works for me.','2003-06-10 05:07:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3465,1,3610,'203.19.130.254','wretchard','wretchardthecat@hotmail.com','http://belmontclub.blogspot.com','Maxim,\r\n\r\nYou realize of course that if you concede that the murder rate for England and Wales, where the bulk of the population live, is 1.4 per 100,000, that the murder rate in Scotland and Northern Ireland would have to be negative in order to arrive at the figure you gave.\r\n\r\nThe BBC got its figures from the Home Office, which is in charge of the UK police forces, and which is certainly more authoritative than the \"UN\". You will also note the the trend in the US murder rate has been steadily going down. \"In 1973, there were 9.5 murders for every 100,000 Americans. In 2001, the figure was 5.5.\" -- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/09/15/wjail15.xml\r\n\r\nThe crime trend in the UK, on the other hand, has been steadily going up, as per the Telegraph article cited above. I believe your figures are wrong.\r\n','2003-06-10 05:21:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3466,1,3610,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Trent, it\'s frustrating for me because you manage to leap from a reasonable explanation of real issues facing France (and Germany and the other Social Democratic European states) to the Isle of Conclusion (sorry, reading \'Phantom Tollbooth\' to Littlest Guy) and hyperbolic assertions that don\'t begin to hold water, and aren\'t supported by current events or the historic record.\r\n\r\nFrance isn\'t going anywhere. The French aren\'t going anywhere. Their social-welfare state is about to have some immense problems, because a) their productivity doesn\'t grow as fast as ours does; and b) the low-wage labor they import assimilates worse than ours does.\r\n\r\nThere are an array of possible futures that come out of those problems; some of them are definitely worse than others and worse than things stand today.\r\n\r\nI can\'t tell if it is just a form of rhetoric you\'re using, of if you genuinely believe that France will somehow implode into cantonments or some other subnational \'statelets\'.\r\n\r\nBut I\'d love to find out...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-10 05:38:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3467,1,3592,'172.202.208.60','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','The EU may simply destroy itself. And a good thing if it does. The current US Constitution wasn\'t the first attempt at government and they should really chuck the current structure and start over. I fear though that given recent events, any American criticism of the EU may just drive Europe into its arms. I think the recent split over Iraq has been excellent for demonstrating the various agendas of France, etc.\r\n\r\n\"But the whole system could eventually collapse, given the problems when one central bank has to steer an entire continent of nation states. Certainly, the more countries that join, the more ungovernable it will become,\" Nolling says. \"In that sense, the euro was born to die.\"\r\n\r\nGiven Germany\'s economic problems, I ask, and if the euro is inherently unstable, how does Germany view a possible UK referendum on British membership?\r\n\r\n\"Many Germans privately feel that given the chance, they would have voted against, and we wouldn\'t be in this mess,\" he says. \"That\'s why we feel the UK is a very privileged country.\"\r\n\r\nFrom the Telegraph. Imagine if a German politician actually began asking the tough questions?\r\n\r\nTransnational socialism aka \"transoc\". Old Orwell nailed it.','2003-06-10 05:42:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3468,1,3610,'68.85.34.142','someone','no@one.no','','Trent, you make one mistake. School funding decisions are being driven by the state courts -- the last bastions of all-out judicial activism east of the 9th Circuit -- based on state constitutions. (Florida\'s \"Supreme Court\" differs only in that it embarrassed itself publicly.) If it were a federal court issue the Supremes would have reined them in by now.\r\n\r\nAs for the Islamist population bomb, denial only makes it worse for the French.','2003-06-10 08:05:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3469,1,3592,'208.20.220.69','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','There\'s no way to avoid saying it: The EUrocrats are setting up an oligarchy. Its thrust will be the same as that of any other oligarchy: to preserve and extend its barons\' power and perquisites.\r\n\r\nIt\'s time every European read Friedrich Hayek\'s The Road To Serfdom. Pay particular note to the chapter \"Why The Worst Get On Top.\"\r\n','2003-06-10 13:00:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3470,1,3592,'62.78.148.207','JH','jussimhamalainen@luukku.com','','In case you need reference,this website has the text of the Commission proposal.\r\n\r\nThe details are right:Only parties with activity in several different countries may take part in parliamentary elections,and a majority of MEPs (europarliamentarians) may decide to drop off the parties that are considered insufficiently committed to \"the principles of freedom and democracy, human rights and fundamental freedoms, and the rule of law.\" \r\n\r\nWhat is dubious is that the documents at hand don\'t specify exactly what kind of activity would result in expulsion.It appears to be enough that the majority of MEPs consider it so.\r\n\r\nFurthermore,the article on expulsion says:\"Before carrying out such verification the European Parliament shall hear the representatives of the European political party concerned and ask a committee of independent eminent persons to give an opinion on the subject within a reasonable time.\"\r\n\r\nWho are these independent eminent persons?(The committee)\"...shall consist of three members, with the European Parliament, the Council and the Commission each appointing one member. The secretariat and financing of the committee shall be provided by the European Parliament.\"\r\n\r\nThat\'s not all.The parties that wish to take part in elections to the Europarliament would be eligible for party funding from the Union.The article five says,among other things,that to receive funding,a European political party must have \"received at least five per cent of the votes cast at the most recent European elections in at least one third of the Member States.\"\r\n\r\nHas this deck been stacked or what?','2003-06-10 13:03:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3471,1,3591,'216.177.59.133','Max Power','safblog@yahoo.com','http://maxpower.nu','A defense of the DOJ position on my blog.','2003-06-10 13:18:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3472,1,3592,'63.189.0.249','Bart Hall (Kansas, USA)','bart.hall@prairiestarfarm.com','','Something important seems to be emerging from the inchoate mists of the last decade or so in world events. I think it goes something like this...and is directly linked to the \'death\' of France discussions of yesterday.\r\n\r\nIn the US, \"all politics is local\" is not just a throwaway line. A succession of so-called third parties has failed to go anywhere because American political parties arise and flouorish from the base. To have a Libertarian or Reform or even the Bull Moose party run a candidate for President is an exercise in futility because there is nothing underneath it.\r\n\r\nFor non-Americans -- and Americans who graduated from high school after about 1975 -- YES, there really was a Bull Moose party. In 1912 the popular former President Teddy Roosevelt ran for President under that banner, and lost badly.\r\n\r\nThe Libertarians (or whomever) will almost certainly never elect a President until they have hundreds of seats in state legislatures, several governorships, and a respectable number of seats in the House, along with a few in the Senate.\r\n\r\nAmerican politics is decidedly bottom-->up. Not so in Europe, and only true to a limited extent in places like Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.\r\n\r\nWhat seems to be emerging from the mists in Europe is a virulent return to the top-->down power structure that has prevailed there for centuries. They dabbled in American-style bottom-->up politics for a couple of decades, but the power-elite figured out quite quickly that they didn\'t like it.\r\n\r\nBoth the EU and the UN reflect a vigorous attempt to re-impose the old (some would say \'natural\') order of things.\r\n\r\nWe have then, in front of us in the \'West\" a looming power struggle of considerable magnitude. There are the Islamo-fascists, the Euro-statist secular socialists (National Socialists, if you will) and the Americans (grass-roots democratic republic).\r\n\r\nTwo of the three are decidedly opposed to freedom.\r\n\r\nWhat will make things interesting is that the Islamo-fascists have a strong beach-head in Europe (particularly France, where within a generation they could constitute an effective voting majority). \r\n\r\nSimilarly, the Euro National-Socialists have a strong beachhead within the US, most notably in academia and the media.\r\n\r\nThings are likely to get rather ugly between now and the late \'20s. And as they do, it will be interesting to see how (and where) the Middle Kingdom [China]--which has pretty much the same type of government it had 800 years ago--will respond.\r\n\r\nI suspect most Americans do not yet understand that we are in the early phases of what will become a struggle for the very existence of this nation, its liberties, and its freedom.','2003-06-10 14:14:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3473,1,3617,'206.190.18.7','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','There is no easy replacement for tantalum. It is a necessary metal for a modern industrial economy. \r\n\r\nGold is too easily sold on the black market. \r\n\r\nDiamond prices are propped up by the diamond cartel. Saphires are rarer than diamonds but I believe their market price is 1/10th that of diamonds.\r\n\r\nGiven the above how do you cut off the cash flow?\r\n\r\nWe do know how to reduce American gang violence by 75 to 90%. Stop denying those in pain legal pain relief. (Heroin, cocaine, and marijuana are not recognized as legal relief for PTSD type problems. Yet that is their main purpose in chronic users.)\r\n\r\nThere is no such easy solution for diamonds, gold, tantalum, etc. because they are already legal.\r\n\r\n================================================\r\n\r\nThe only reason drugs and violence go together in America is that we are unwilling to provide those in PTSD type pain a low cost legal source of relief. Instead we keep the low cost stuff illegal to prop up the profits of American pharmaceutical companies who take in some $40+ billion a year for anti-anxiety drugs. Replacing those drugs with home grown pot would destroy a significant source of drug company profits. Check out the major funding sources for the Partnership for a Drug Free America. Drug companies are at the top of the list. \r\n\r\nThe drug war is not an effort to protect us from drugs. It is rent seeking. An attempt to protect drug company profits through government coercion. Drug prohibition is a disease vector, a violence vector, and the largest source of criminal finance. Yet here we are speaking as if prohibiting drugs was a positive accomplishment or talking as if it was the drugs causing the problems and not the prohibition.\r\n\r\nWe will never solve this problem until the discourse rises above the level of DEA handouts.\r\n\r\n \r\n','2003-06-10 14:25:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3474,1,3591,'204.124.240.254','T. Hartin','zgolem@yahoo.com','','Definitely check Instapundit, Max Powers, and the rest. It turns out that the real wrong-doer, the government of Burma, is not a party because it has sovereign immunity. It also turns out that TotalFina ELF, the corrupt French oil company, ran the joint venture, and is also not a party. Unocal is named solely because it is the only person remotely involved that the US can claim any jurisdiction over, and is being asked to pay for the actions of a joint venture that it had no control over.\r\n\r\nIt also turns out that the 9th Circuit\'s position is, yet again, contary to that of the majority of other courts that have considered the issue. The basic problem here is that the 9th Circuit is trying to convert a statute that gives jurisdiction into a statute that creates a claim. \r\n\r\nThe problem with \"universal\" jurisdiction is that it severs jurisdiction from nexus and accountability, leaving the court open to politicization. If a US court can try and convict someone from, say, France, who has no connection to the US, then there are no checks or balances, no accountability of any kind, on what the court does. This is not true when courts are limited to trying only people who have real connections to the court\'s community.\r\n\r\nIt is exceedingly odd, isn\'t it, that (a) universal jurisdiction is a project of the left, and (b) it has only ever been invoked against conservative or right-wing governments and individuals. This is even odder when you realize that in recent years most of the blood has been shed, and most of the worst human rights violations have been committed, by left governments and individuals. Why no universal jurisdiction lawsuit against Castro, or Pol Pot, or Kim Sung Il, or Kaddafi, or Yasir Arafat, or the Red Chinese, or any of the many many surviving members of the Communist regimes of Eastern Europe? Why only universal jurisdiction lawsuits against Pinochet and the US?\r\n\r\nA court is perceived as political has lost its legitimacy. Until universal jurisdiction can get beyond being a political tool, and I don\'t think it can because the critical elements of accountability are not there, it won\'t be legitimate.','2003-06-10 14:47:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3475,1,3591,'216.3.242.162','Randy Paul','randinho@yahoo.com','http://beautifulhorizons.blogspot.com','Re: TotalFina ELF, The ATCA has also been used in cases against Talisman, a Canadian Oil Company as well as Societe Nationale Des Chemins De Fer Francais, a French Company. I don\'t know why then it couldn\'t be used against TotalFina ELF.\r\n\r\n>It is exceedingly odd, isn\'t it, that (a) universal jurisdiction is a project of the left, and (b) it has only ever been invoked against conservative or right-wing governments and individuals.\r\n\r\nReally? Slobodan Milosevic and some of his cohorts were communists when Yugoslavia was communist and there have been successful prosecutions in these cases.\r\n\r\nI don\'t know the political leanings of those who have been successfully prosecuted in Rwanda, but Hussein Habre, the former dictator of Chad is under indictment as well as Charles Taylor of Liberia and I don\'t believe they are right-wingers.','2003-06-10 15:01:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL);
INSERT INTO `mt_comment` VALUES (3476,1,3592,'63.206.171.40','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','Bart,\r\n\r\nIt has been obvious for some time that the EU is an attempt by European elites to get around democracy. They loathe and abhor the concept of popular sovereignty.\r\n\r\nHere\'s a short summary of the roots of the latter in America, from one of my columns elsewhere:\r\n\r\n\"American actions in the war on terror can be better understood if the unique role of the American people in American nationalism is considered. They feel they alone constitute the nation. This is quite contrary to other countries\' nationalism where the \"people\" are considered one of many domestic factions, and often an illegitimate one (\"the rabble\"). This distinction arose because the American people have always deemed America\'s sovereign power to reside in themselves, while most other nations began their national consciousness with a hereditary monarch expressing the sovereign power. Other peoples identify themselves with their nations. Americans instead identify the nation with themselves, feeling they collectively are the nation. \r\n\r\nMany distinctive American traits grow from these feelings - exaggerated self-reliance and individualism, disdain for elites, self-confidence, etc. The American phenomenon of \"populism\" is a perfect example - a feeling that factions are illegitimate usurpers of power properly exercised solely by the people through governments which are supposed to be their servants. The American people are rightly confident they collectively can bend their governments, including the national government, to their will when necessary, but don\'t hesitate to act on their own, as individuals or in spontaneously formed groups, to address issues as those arise. The unique vitality, power and independence of American local and state governments compared to those of other countries arises from the fact that sovereignty and power reside in the American people collectively and flow from the bottom up.\"','2003-06-10 15:47:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3477,1,3610,'80.62.189.246','jweeld','scott_temporary@hotmail.com','','Re murder rates:\r\n\r\n\"The FBI asks police to list every homicide as murder, even if the case isn’t subsequently prosecuted or proceeds on a lesser charge, making the U.S. numbers as high as possible. By contrast, the English police \'massage down\' the homicide statistics, tracking each case through the courts and removing it if it is reduced to a lesser charge or determined to be an accident or self-defense, making the English numbers as low as possible.\"\r\n\r\n[source: http://reason.com/0211/fe.jm.gun.shtml]\r\n','2003-06-10 16:58:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3478,1,3592,'216.26.3.76','Michael J. Totten','michaeltotten001@yahoo.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','The EU has lots of problems. But even glancingly comparing it with the USSR is too much. \r\n\r\nThe EU will never set up a gulag system, nor will it starve millions on purpose in the Ukraine. Nor will it invade and conquer its neighbors and foment totalitarian revolutions on the other side of the planet. ','2003-06-10 17:21:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3479,1,3592,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Never? \"Never\" is a long time, and history laughs at us all. I wouldn\'t make that \"never\" claim about any country, including America, though of course there are sharp differences in probability depending on which polity one is talking about. My concern is that the probability meter is going up significantly in Europe, and even if it\'s not headed for gulags the consequences are grave.\r\n\r\nAs for the the comparisons to the USSR, they were made by people who had lived under it - and \"Back in the USSR?\" was the title of the Telegraph article. If a Polish MP sees similarities, that\'s news and worth reporting as such. The piece also mentions, specifically, that gulags are not in the offing here. So I\'m not worried about a perspective problem.\r\n\r\nWhether it wishes to become a threatening USSR-style state or merely a softer \"Brave New World\" tyranny matters to a point, but in either case the EU as envisaged is an increasingly dangerous actor on the international stage. The events of the last century were no accident - there is a deep, deep hole in Europe\'s soul, and it\'s still there. We are not unwise to watch them very carefully, and to see the developing anti-democratic EU with trepidation.','2003-06-10 17:39:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3482,1,3617,'12.109.58.126','PG','pganti@hotmail.com','http://bertrandrussell.blogspot.com','Have these huge conflicts in Africa been a constant feature over the last century? I had an idea that they only popped up with the end of colonialism. Did they happen before the white man showed up?\r\n\r\nWhile recognizing the on-point humor of Ethnikistan, I don\'t think that separations based on values and culture are necessarily a bad thing.\r\nThe British tried to pretend the Sudan was a single nation, favoring the Arabized Muslims of the north over the Christians and animists of the south, and left the country in perpetual convulsion because it has no business being one country at all. \r\nThe north wants to impose Sharia law and be part of the Arab world; the south wants to speak English and be part of modern Africa. \r\n\r\nDoes it make sense for a nation to remain undivided just for the sake of nominal unity? It reminds me of those marriages that were a mistake to begin with and should be ended as quickly and painlessly as possible, being kept together for \"appearances.\"','2003-06-10 19:05:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3481,1,3592,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Hmm, thanks for sharpening my arguments Michael. Made a couple changes that bring the comments I just posted into the main article.','2003-06-10 18:05:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3483,1,3617,'63.166.226.83','Stephen','stephen@shadowshow.net','http://slapthemonkey.blogspot.com','I\'ll preface this with saying that I don\'t have a strong background in African history or politics. This is just my gut talking, here. \r\n\r\nOn reading Kaplan\'s \"The Coming Anarchy\" I find myself with disturbing thoughts. It reads like a post-apocalyptic horror novel, and though I see his points, I don\'t necessarily agree with his premise that Africa is a direct harbinger of doom for the United States. A destabilizing force, to be sure, one with international consequences, but I think that, on a more local level, it might not be so bad.\r\n\r\nThis looks odd to me as I write this, since I\'m known for pessimism, and in fact some of what I\'m thinking is pessimistic, but I can\'t get away from a sense of, not so much opportunity, but hope. Yes, Africa is going to hell in a handbasket, has been for centuries. It\'s famed for it. Just ask Conrad\'s Mr. Kurtz.\r\n\r\nBut to my mind, I see a contrast that makes me think that, though Africa\'s problems will run aground on our shores and already have to some extent, we can spare our nation a large chunk of the difficulties that Africa has and will continue to experience. Not to jump on the \"Oh, it can\'t happen here,\" bandwagon, because it can. But I have hope that it won\'t, because I think that the key to having it happen is apathy, something that is in far greater supply among a debilitated continent of third world nations than it is over here.\r\n\r\nA sense that nothing can be done about it will doom us. A sense of \"Oh, hell we\'re already screwed, why fight it,\" will drive us screaming into the void. The West is different from Africa.\r\n\r\nSome of what Kaplan describes seems to me, at its core, to be something that already happened in the U.S. \"It is worth noting, for example, that it is precisely the wealthiest and fastest-developing city in India, Bombay, that has seen the worst intercommunal violence between Hindus and Muslims.\" \r\n\r\nSounds like New York in the late 1800\'s and early 1900\'s to me. Jews and Italians, Hungarians and Irish all beating the crap out of each other because... well, because they could. But there\'s a difference. I think it\'s a sense of greater community. People came to the United States because it was a fresh start. They wanted to be part of a greater whole. They wanted to be American. Africa has no such analogy.\r\n\r\nIn order to make a new start in America people had to give up their previous home, sail across an ocean for a month in steerage, burn away their old family ties to place. Africa\'s all one big connected plot separated by loose borders and disease ridden terrain. People travel from place to place in a more migratory fashion, herded by circumstance and war, like geese being run to ground by wolves.\r\n\r\nBut Africa has exposure to the West. It\'s got Coca-Cola, and Marlboro. It\'s got the images of the fruits of the West, but no real understanding among the people of how to get there. I think that the West, inadvertently created a half baked model for African politics to follow and then, when colonialism went out of fashion, pulled the plug and left them to fend for themselves. There\'s no sense of communal alignment. Individual family units / tribes are vying for some kind of adolescent supremacy without taking into account the collective as a whole. Without this there can be no long term government institution that wields any real power. With an unstable government comes a lack of resource management. With no resource management the Tragedy of the Commons is exponentially compounded. Waste treatment is nonexistent. Disease is rampant. Foreign investment is almost nil. With the exception of South Africa, who in the region has the stability to have any real economy?\r\n\r\nSo we end up with a situation where a series of larval societies, still stuck in an pre-feudalistic city state mentality, has been trying to shove a post-modern identities onto itself. It\'s like watching children play at being adults and accidentally setting fire to the dog.\r\n\r\nClearly something needs to be done. And this is where my thoughts start to bother me.\r\n\r\nI find myself, through acculturation and inclination, despising the colonial idea of The White Man\'s Burden, but that\'s what this sounds like to me when I say these thoughts out loud. Every fiber in my being screams \"racial stereotype\" and I don\'t like it. This is not the time of Kipling. I\'m Hawai\'ian (among other things), and the whole idea is anathema to the way I was brought up.\r\n\r\nBut something still needs to be done. But what? Aside from the fact that we have troops already committed everywhere else, the EU (okay, France) is already sending troops to the Congo. Whether it\'s because they honestly want to deal with the issue, or it\'s just a political \"kiss off\" to the U.S. to prove they can do it alone remains to be seen. From what I understand their only objective is to take the airport they\'re heading into and open up the routes for humanitarian aid to flow into the country.\r\n\r\nBut is it enough? Do parts of Africa need to be taken over by outside powers just to impose order and government? If not, will their destabilization leak over to the rest of the world? God, I hope not. I don\'t think it can be done. It\'s too goddamn big. Simply throwing money out there doesn\'t seem right to me. Humanitarian aid is a great idea, when it gets to the right people. Who do we make the checks out to? Who do we give the food to? How do we make sure it isn\'t stolen to feed rebel troops? Who are the rebels? These are countries known for rapidly shifting governments and corrupt politicians. Sending donations and avoiding the purchase of conflict diamonds has the feel of soccer moms holding a bake sale to free political prisoners. It just doesn\'t seem enough.\r\n\r\nThe problem won\'t solve itself. So, I ask myself, what can I do about it? How can one person make a difference? And the easy answer, the one that far too many people give, the one that I fear the most, the only one that comes to mind, is nothing. And this disturbs me most of all.','2003-06-10 19:11:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3484,1,3617,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Stephen, this is very, very good. Care to make it a formal Guest Blog piece here with its own posting, or would you rather put it up on your own blog?','2003-06-10 19:31:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3485,1,3592,'217.185.237.184','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\nreading these comments makes clear nobody here has knowlege of european poloitical systems.\r\nthe described mechanisms of forbidding political parties and not let them participate if they do not get more than 5% of the votes are special mechanisms that existed in the german political system since the end of wwII.\r\n\r\nthey were established in the inner knowlege of what made hitler and the nsdap possible.\r\nthe principle of this system was and is \'nor freedom for the enemys of freedom\' which means no partys are allowed who want to abolish the constitution and the democratic rights, and there are other mechanisms which should guarantee that what happend in the 1920s and \'30s never could happen again.\r\none of these mechanisms is that no party can participate if it has less than 5% of the votes. this results in an stable political system, just look at the working (and NOT working..) of the israeli or italian parliament: there are very many, very little parties which just got a few votes but are in parliament with one or two MP\'s and can decide which of the big parties gathers the political power in an coalition. this mean unstability and often chaos, what you can see if you look at the work of the parliament in these two countries.\r\n\r\nand one thing to add: the polish MP who was cited is one of the facist, extreme-nationalist, anti-europe party, i would query if _this_ man should be cited about democracy.\r\n\r\n\r\nand should those, who have no knowlege about the political system in the european union, and about the great democratic tradition complain about a lack of democracy?\r\nfor those who have no knowlege, doubts about the democracy in america itself can arise, and not without reason, there are mechanisms in the american poltical system that show themsself as not very democratic in these times.\r\namerica has only two political parties that could participate in national politics, schould someone out of this system complain about the forbidding of extreme-nationalist anti-democratic parties in europe? at least we HAVE more then two parties who participate in daily political live.\r\nand a system in which one party can get 49% percent of all votes in the whole country can be not represented because the \'winner takes all\' is only very doubtly a good democratic system.\r\ntheres the same problem with presidential elections, a candidate can get the majority of all votes in the country but his opponent can be president (as happend between gore and bush).\r\n\r\nand should you REALLY complain about a lack of european democratic if not the half of your population votes? in germany ind important elections about 80% of the populations goes voting -> THIS is lived democracy.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-10 20:02:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3486,1,3592,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','I think 100% of Iraqis voted in their last set of elections under Saddam. Guess you\'re in second place, Maxim.\r\n\r\nMay be a valid point about the Polish MP, but it doesn\'t address his argument. Is the mechanism the same as the one in Warsaw Pact Poland? If it is, he could be a worshipper of Cthulhu for all it matters. Same ad hominem problem re: JH, who has text to cite, an URL, and a coherent argument. All you offer are insults in return.\r\n\r\nIgnorance cuts 2 ways, too - America has a national 2 party system because American voters choose not to support other parties enough to establish them. Though the Reform Party has contested national elections, and even won a governorship. This is rather different that saying \"we\'re going to let existing political parties vote on whether to allow or disallow others,\" which is what the EU proposals amount to. That IS Soviet - and given the rest of the pattern cited in this article, extremely disturbing.\r\n\r\nRe: banning the Nazi party... a system invoked to deal with very unique German circumstances may not work very well across the entire EU. Just a thought. If that\'s a critically important goal, one could say that a party must be accredited in the country it runs in, in order to put up EuroParliament candidates. Problem solved without excluding Eurosceptics or a Soviet-style accreditation system - but that isn\'t what they did at all.','2003-06-10 20:27:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3487,1,3592,'172.167.216.11','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','And Maxim reveals his ignorance of the US system. \r\n\r\nand should you REALLY complain about a lack of european democratic if not the half of your population votes? in germany ind important elections about 80% of the populations goes voting -> THIS is lived democracy.\r\n\r\nIirc 100% of Iraqis voted for Saddam. Elections, whether free or fair or not, are not the sole arbiter of whether a country is democratic. Indeed, being allowed to NOT vote is even a sign of democracy. If a law was passed requiring I vote, I\'d protest and howl. But \"democracy\" has been fetishized too much. A pure democracy would be nothing but a tyranny. Certain safeguards for the rights of minority groups have to be included in the system. \r\n\r\nThe emerging EU is anti-democratic on its face. An enormous bureaucracy with no political accountability? No public elections? That\'s asking for corruption (watched the news in Europe lately?) and structurally, well, it even looks like the USSR.','2003-06-10 20:48:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3488,1,3592,'217.185.237.169','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\ni know the favours of the US systems (for example it is very stable), and i know it is democratic, because i know how this systems works.\r\nand i also know the problems this system causes in these times (especially in the party financing system there are problems that can cause further problems), there are other problems in the US, especially the low rate of voters in elections. [and i think you KNOW this is a problem, and you should ACCEPT this is a problem, and not just lie to your self that it is no problem.]\r\n\r\nbut all in all i know it is democratic, although it has it\'s problems, like every single state-system on the world, because i know how iot works and i know it\'s mechanisms.\r\nAND i know the mechanisms of german and european state-system, how partys and parliaments work, what commisions do and don\'t do. and i KNOW that it is absolute nonsense to claim this system is \'soviet\' [by the way, WHAT exactly should this mena, \'soviet\'??], because it is a democratic system. it works different than in the US, but it works, and it works in favour of its citizens, and it works in approbation of it\'s citizens.\r\nthere are mechanisms that are difficult to understand, and that would look strange on the first view for those who have no inner knowlege of the working of this system. but this should not mean somebody should think this system is in any case not democratic.\r\n\'democracy\' is a difficult word, and also saddam hussein claimed his state was \'democratic\'.\r\nbut the EU and every single country in it is democratic in the meaning the western world has established since the french revolution, since the birth of the United STated in 1776 and since the end of WWII and the birth of an new european democratic century.\r\n\r\ninstead of demonising the EU and it\'s single members as a new enemy of freedom and a new \'evil empire\', it should be accepted the western world can only be strong an vital, and the party who makes world policy in the new century if it\'s two importent parts, the US and Europe stand together in favour of each other, and in inner knowlege of each others favours, in knowlege of commons and differences, and in knowlege of common intrests in the world and in the single countries.\r\n\r\nthe EU is NOT a new sovielunion, nor a new \'evilempire\', it is a new factor in worldpolicy, and it is a factor taht is allied to the US because of common intrests and a deep friendship, but beeing an ally does not mean beeing a vassal. so critic will be there where it has to be out of european sight, but this never will mean the US and the EU stand diametric against each other.\r\n\r\nso instead of demoniseing the EU with claims that are not true, or should be explained there should be writings about our commons and our common intrest. about the US view on the world and the way it changes in these and later days and perhaps the european one. on each side of the atlantic there are sceptics about the future of the western world, sceptics that want to divide, but if they win, WHO will be the laughing third?\r\nso it also up to you, if the sceptics win, and the new century will be those of china and islamic radicals, or the visionaries win and the new century will be those of the western world and new victorys of humanity and democracy.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-06-10 21:43:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3489,1,3592,'217.185.237.190','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\nsorry because of the bad spelling, i am german ;)','2003-06-10 21:46:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3490,1,3592,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','It\'s OK, we understand. \r\n\r\nMaxim, I agree with your last 2 paragraphs. My fear is that unless something is done to change the EU\'s current direction very significantly, we risk a future in which common interest and common traditions won\'t be much in existence. A Europe with a strong economic and political counterbalance via TAFTA to the EU\'s tendencies described above, one that lets its member states find their own way while cooperating in areas they wish within and beyond Europe - that New Europe could be our good friend and ally.\r\n\r\nA Europe under the firm grip of a centralizing bureaucracy who shows consistent contempt for both democracy AND liberty, one with no mechanism for secession or national second thoughts - that New Europe raises all kinds of very serious, and justified, fears. History teaches us clearly that it will not remain free - and worse still, may not remain at peace. It looks, smells, and behaves like the Europe that made us go over there twice before. \r\n\r\nThis is the nuclear age. We can\'t afford that again. Neither, if you think about it, can you.','2003-06-10 22:02:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3491,1,3591,'204.124.240.254','T. Hartin','zgolem@yahoo.com','','True enough, Randy, although Slobo no longer bills himself or is really called a communist by anyone (I note on a quick Google search that various Communist parties have come to his defense). I don\'t think the African kleptocrats really register on a left-right scale.\r\n\r\nAnd none of this really answers the question of why lefty dictators have gotten a free pass from the human rights prosecutors, which in turn tends to politicize and thus delegitimize the whole project. \r\n\r\nThere are a plethora of brutal human rights abusers living out their lives in peace right there in Europe, all of whom happen to have done their dirty work in the service of left-wing governments. Eastern Europe is a target-rich environment for human rights prosecutors asserting universal jurisdiction, so they have to cross the ocean and go after Pinochet? Pinochet, after he has been out of power for decades, is a target, but its hands off Castro while he is actively violating human rights? C\'mon. Legitimacy is earned, and so far the supporters of universal jurisdiction haven\'t earned it in my book.','2003-06-10 22:13:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3492,1,3617,'204.86.64.143','yak','yakzilla@mac.com','','Stephen,\r\n\r\nGreat job!','2003-06-10 22:20:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3493,1,3592,'172.162.245.60','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','Maxim, I\'m for European integration. I also don\'t think we\'re demonizing the EU so much as pointing out it has some serious structural problems that I don\'t think many would deny. The system being built is an emerging Soviet Union imo. I\'m worried by what I see coming out of Europe: the anti-Semitism, anti-Americanism, laws that limit free speech, etc. I think the current structure should be tossed out. It\'s ok to start again and restructure the EU to make it more accountable and democratic. The current US system wasn\'t the first attempt at government either. ','2003-06-10 22:31:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3494,1,3617,'63.166.226.90','Stephen','stephen@shadowshow.net','http://slapthemonkey.blogspot.com','Thanks.\r\n\r\nJoe, I\'d love to have it posted here at Winds of Change. Tried sending you a mail about that, but my system\'s choking for some reason. Thanks, again.','2003-06-10 22:37:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3495,1,3591,'216.3.242.162','Randy Paul','randinho@yahoo.com','http://beautifulhorizons.blogspot.com','>And none of this really answers the question of why lefty dictators have gotten a free pass from the human rights prosecutors, which in turn tends to politicize and thus delegitimize the whole project. \r\n\r\nWell, as I said Milosevic and his ilk did not get a free pass, Pincohet never faced justice for his crimes, so your claim on its face is not accurate. Also Mengistu, the former communist dictator of Ethiopia fled South African exile facing prosecution to shelter by Mugabe in Zimbabwe.\r\n\r\nCzechoslovakia (back when it existed in that form) agreed not to pursue action against it\'s former communist leaders, largely at the behest of Vaclav Havel. It was wrong, wrong, wrong for Erich Honecker to be released from custody to go to Chile, but at least he was prosecuted.\r\n\r\nThe right has also been openly hostile to universal jurisdiction. When Pinochet was being detained in London, his supporters said that it was a matter for Chile to decide, ignoring the fact that through self-amnesty and creation of the Senator for Life position with parliamentary immunity, he couldn\'t be prosecuted there.\r\n\r\nWhat would be more constructive would be for the right to support such efforts instead of seeking to undermine them as they dd in the Pinochet case. It will certainly make the efforts to go after the Castros of the world a lot more credible and I\'m all for going after him.\r\n','2003-06-10 22:39:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3496,1,3617,'138.133.17.10','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','M. Simon - \r\n\r\nI understand that tantalum (and oil, and gold, and cocoa etc. etc.) are at least useful and often necessary to the West\'s industrial economy.\r\n\r\na) That would suggest that stable sources of supply are in our interest, no? Do you believe that the current policies encourage medium- or long- term stability?\r\n\r\nb) It doesn\'t excuse us for happily trading with the kleptocrats who work to ramp up production (see the cited article) to generate cash.\r\n\r\nPG - \r\n\r\nPost-colonial Africa certainly has been a violent and unstable place, but the levels of violence in the last decade have ratcheted upward dramatically. To a large extent, I wonder if the Soviet/U.S. tensions kept some measure of stability going in the Third World, as each power attempted to ensure the stability of it\'s client states.\r\n\r\nStephen - \r\n\r\nI certainly don\'t think that the U.S. (or even, to contradict Trent, much of the West) is directly at risk for the kind of political and cultural collapse discussed by Kaplan. But we are indirectly at risk, in two specific areas - first, economically, as nations with resources on which we depend can no longer be looked on as reliable suppliers; and as the human cost mounts, the \'failed states\' become places where medical and political pandemics are liable to breed.\r\n\r\nWhile I firmly buy into the argument that poverty is not itself the cause of terrorism, I do believe that an increasing population of people living in Hobbes\' world is something that can only have negative consequences for us. They will be desparate and pissed off. And poor - did I mention poor? So the economic growth necessary to keep feeding the Western economies will come from...where, exactly?\r\n\r\nI tried to personalize the point in talking about buying \'conflict diamonds\'. Please don\'t assume tat\'s where I believe this should end; I certainly don\'t think that a \'buy from De Beers or don\'t buy\' campaign is a serious matter. I do think that we (both personally and through our Western governments) need to think carefully about who we want to do business with, and how we can raise the cost of doing business with the kinds of evil kleptocrats we see in the Congo. I don\'t see embargo as anyting but a blunt tool, and I\'d love to see us deveop better ones - but sometimes blunt tools work.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-10 23:51:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3497,1,3592,'63.189.16.18','Bart','bart.hall@prairiestarfarm.com','','Hmmm ... what was the name of that Swedish leftist who was arrested for putting up a poster announcing an anti-EU meeting -- and promptly declared persona non-grata throughout most of the EU?\r\n\r\nWhen you can be arrested and declared PNG for trying to organise a meeting at which people *might* be expected to express opinions in contradition to the party line ...\r\n\r\nThe EU *already* resembles the Soviet Union in certain characteristic aspects.\r\n\r\nDo not make the error of assuming \'democracy\' to be the opposite of \'totalitarian.\' They answer two different questions -- WHO has the power, and HOW MUCH power do they have.\r\n\r\nDemocracy can be an effective path to totalitarianism as Hitler so clearly illustrated.\r\n\r\nIn Europe.','2003-06-11 02:08:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3498,1,3617,'172.165.43.119','ralph phelan','ralphph@aol.com','','Much of Africa and the Middle East\'s trouble comes from the fact that decolonization occured at a time that many in Europe, and even in the universities of the US, thought that socialism and central planning were good ideas. Those are the ideas their elites held at independence, and as a result they wasted most of their initial capital and many decades trying to make the impossible work.\r\n\r\nSome nations in Africa are starting to make major immprovements by embracing some market-oriented reforms. In an environment where even some semblance of property and oportunity exist, some people will finnd better things to do with their time than kill each other over existing wealth - like create wealth instead.\r\n\r\nWhat can the US do?\r\n\r\n(1) First, do no harm. Stop any policy that helps shore up kleptocrats or, worse, socialists, in the name of stability. \r\n(2) Use diplomatic pressure to encourage free market reforms.\r\n(3) FREE TRADE!\r\n(4) Reeducation of local elites - and not by our universities, who are part the problem.\r\n\r\n1 & 2 \"merely\" require an attitude adjustment at State (just one of many needed.)\r\n3 will be politically painful (SC textile interests, etc.)\r\n4 I\'m not even sure who could do it. US companies? Chambers of Commerce? The Heritage Foundation? Doingit right will be a political minefield.\r\n\r\nOf course, most of this will work best in semi-stable countries like Uganda. But even in the Congo we can pick the least-bad warlords and reward them with trade agreements for respecting property and business in the areas they control, and educate them about the long-term benefits to them of such policies.','2003-06-11 02:25:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3499,1,3617,'66.214.28.160','Stephen','stephen@shadowshow.net','http://slapthemonkey.blogspot.com','No criticism meant, A.L. My apologies if it came across that way. I agree with your points, and didn\'t think you were implying that that\'s where you thought it should end. I was merely giving voice to my own frustrations at not knowing what to do. When it comes down to it, my post was really more a comment on Kaplan\'s essay, which I have to thank you for linking to. Fascinating reading.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-11 05:10:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3500,1,3592,'172.145.15.24','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','So incredibly troubling. On the emerging Euro-wide Arrest Warrant... (link from Samizdata.net)\r\n\r\nWhen the warrant comes into force next year court hearings will be a formality and the requesting country will not have to present evidence of a well-founded case. Nor will the accused be allowed to argue that he will not get a fair trial. It has been a long-standing principle in English law that extradition would not be allowed to a jurisdiction where the procedures were considered unjust.\r\n\r\nThe Government says that because the rest of the EU has signed up to the European Convention of Human Rights, their judicial systems can be considered fair. But most other EU countries do not have habeas corpus or trial by jury and, as in Ms Daniels\'s experience, can reactivate a legal case years after it was apparently brought to an end.','2003-06-11 05:21:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3501,1,3611,'65.57.27.125','cj','thejohnsonsmc@yahoo.com','http://dubitoks.tripod.com','As a non-faculty employee of an american university for the past 17 years, I can attest that there is a component of the AAUP which has a socialist (even communist) mindset. \r\n\r\nBut I also personally have witnessed the AAUP being a stand-alone body against the abuses of power that can prevail in university administrations and state legislatures.\r\n\r\nSo I guess it\'s a case of not throwing the baby out with the bath water.','2003-06-11 05:29:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3502,1,3619,'172.145.15.24','infamouse','lindenen@aol.com','','Let Africa Sink.\r\n\r\nI don\'t agree totally with this essay but it is interesting nonetheless and addresses these exact issues.','2003-06-11 06:14:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3503,1,3608,'65.28.97.15','Dan Darling','scorpius@shwiggie.com','http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com',' I believe Fazul Abdullah Mohammed (who is a native of Comoros, if I recall correctly) also has ties to al-Itihaad al-Islamiyyah in Somalia, the Eritrean Islamic Jihad, and the Allied Democratic Forces in Uganda. He\'s a major player within al-Qaeda\'s African leadership, which is one of the reasons that his presence in Kenya is so disconcerting.','2003-06-11 06:16:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3504,1,3620,'68.161.63.75','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Joe, it\'s Judith Weiss. I am flattered at being mistaken for veteran reporter Judith Miller but I have a ways to go . . . ','2003-06-11 07:01:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3505,1,3620,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Point taken. And hey, it\'s 2am....','2003-06-11 07:10:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3506,1,3592,'193.60.129.71','John Farren','farren_john@hotmail.com','','As a moderately sceptical pro-European Brit (pro Single Market, and other economic/social policies, dubious about the single currency and the Euro-warrant without safeguards, against a common defence and foreign policy) I regard the unelected nature of the EU Commission as a feature, not a bug.\r\n\r\nEssentially, the Commision is a limited executive body which:\r\n- implements the European legislation adopted by Parliament and the Council; \r\n- presents legislative proposals to Parliament and the Council (in practice, those agreed in outline by the Council in advance); \r\n- represents the EU in international agreements, mainly trade and technical. \r\n\r\nBy contrast the the Council is where the real power lies:\r\n- it is the supreme legislative body (for some issues it invites input from the European Parliament); \r\n- coordinates economic policies of Member States; \r\n- concludes agreements with one or more States or international organisations (where these do not remain under national purview); \r\n- is the main budgeting authority; \r\n- acts as the executive for foreign and security cooperation (insofar as this exists at all), and police and judicial. \r\n\r\nThe European Parliament, the only directly elected body, is largely an irrelevant talking shop, except in acting as watchdog over the Commission. \r\n( see http://europa.eu.int/inst-en.htm#3 )\r\n\r\nWhy does this not worry me? Because the Council is comprised of ministers from each of the governments of the member states. The legitimacy in EU decisions derives from the agreement of states. The democratic accountability is via the elections of those govenments at national level. The lack of democratic standing for the Commision, and power for the Parliament, discourages attempts to widen their field of operation, and helps to encourage resistance to such pretensions.\r\n\r\nIn American terms, it might be loosely compared to the Executive and the Senate being replaced by a committee of all the State Governors, or their representatives. Of course, the vital difference is that the EU is not a nation, the USA is.\r\n\r\nAs long as the EU is, at base, an association of nation states, which is constrained within limits, (ie a \"Confederacy\", not a \"Federal Union\") that\'s fine by me. \r\nIf not, not.\r\n','2003-06-11 11:52:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3507,1,3613,'195.92.67.67','Abiola Lapite','abiola_lapite@hotmail.com','http://reti.blogspot.com/','I wrestled with this issue a while back, *< a href=\"http://reti.blogspot.com/2003_05_25_reti_archive.html#95031065\"> here*, \r\nand I don\'t see that a new word is necessary when there\'s a perfectly good old one lying right in front of you - \"trusteeship\", as with the old League of Nations\' mandate system.','2003-06-11 13:22:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3508,1,3619,'208.20.220.69','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','Please see also this.','2003-06-11 14:46:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3509,1,3616,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','\"shiver with antici........ pation\"...Joe, that\'s a scary damn image!! (Joe as Frank N. Furter, for those who managed to miss the Rocky Horror Picture Show...)\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-11 14:49:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3510,1,3620,'12.23.2.98','Diana','prairie_moon@earthlink.net','','If you haven\'t got anything better to do, you can also submit a comment to Arab News on the subject of their new newspaper just for women. \r\n\r\nArticle link:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.arabnews.com/?page=0§ion=1&article=27165&d=9&m=6&y=2003\r\n\r\nI did, and asked them whether they would do an investigative report on the Mecca fire, in which the selfsame mutaween murdered 14 girls for not being modestly dressed. Fiends. Murderers. Devils.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-11 15:26:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3511,1,3616,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','One of my favorite sayings: \"What goes around, comes around\"\r\n\r\nOr, as Salvor Hardin put it:\r\n\r\n\"Its a poor atom blaster that won\'t point both ways\"','2003-06-11 15:36:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3512,1,3618,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Joe, et al:\r\n\r\nIts not so important what your rank is, but that you keep walking out into the street and say:\r\n\"Thay ain\'t room enuff in this here town for the both of us--Draw, Podner!!\r\n\r\nI don\'t care what your rank is, as long as you keep the Saturday Sufi Wisdom posts, I\'m HERE.\r\n\r\n(;^)','2003-06-11 15:43:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3513,1,3622,'66.122.49.120','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','There outta be a law...\r\n\r\n\"While I\'m not a fan of the intrusive measures designed to catch petty money-laundering,\"...\r\n\r\nSo how do you write and enforce laws to distinguish between your favored petty money-launderers and the evil thugs? Laws are laws and they will be used by those in power against those they dislike.Those in powere are going to change in a representative government. Sooner or later you will be the one out of favor. Do you want this law enforced against you?','2003-06-11 16:29:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3514,1,3619,'128.104.29.32','James','jnbt@hep.physics.wisc.edu','','I was sent this \r\narticle on Western institutions in Africa and\r\nhow they changed in the face of indigenous\r\nattitudes. ','2003-06-11 16:57:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3515,1,3591,'216.61.195.161','Stuart Buck','stuartbuck@msn.com','http://stuartbuck.blogspot.com','Randy Paul said: \"the Reagan administration did not fle an amicus brief on the Filartiga case.\"\r\n\r\nThis sentence is technically true, but vastly misleading:\r\n\r\n1. The Filartiga case was argued in the fall of 1979 and decided by mid-summer 1980. During this time period, the Reagan administration did not even exist. So while it\'s technically true that the Reagan administration didn\'t file an amicus brief, well, you get the point.\r\n\r\n\r\n2. The Carter administration, on the other hand, DID file an amicus brief. It\'s not available online, so I can\'t say what position they took. \r\n\r\nHere\'s the headnote from LEXIS, for your information:\r\n\r\n630 F.2d 876, *; 1980 U.S. App. LEXIS 16111, ** \r\n\r\n\r\nDOLLY M.E. FILARTIGA and JOEL FILARTIGA, Plaintiffs-Appellants, v. AMERICO NORBERTO PENA-IRALA, Defendant-Appellee \r\n\r\n\r\nNo. 191, Docket 79-6090 \r\n\r\n\r\nUNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS, SECOND CIRCUIT \r\n\r\n\r\n630 F.2d 876; 1980 U.S. App. LEXIS 16111 \r\n\r\n\r\n \r\nOctober 16, 1979, Argued \r\nJune 30, 1980, Decided \r\n\r\nPRIOR HISTORY: [**1] \r\n \r\nAppeal from a judgment of the United States District Court for the Eastern District of New York, Eugene H. Nickerson, District Judge, dismissing appellants\' complaint for want of subject matter jurisdiction, pursuant to Fed. R. Civ. P. 12(c). \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nDISPOSITION: Reversed. \r\n\r\nCORE TERMS: torture, international law, human rights, inhuman, degrading, treaty, cruel, declaration, alien, federal jurisdiction, customary, criminal proceeding, binding, civil action, public official, national law, universal, instigation, civilized, domestic, common law, Law of Nations, custom, usage, subject matter jurisdiction, jurisdictional, transitory, conveniens, offender, observe \r\n \r\n\r\nLexisNexis(TM) HEADNOTES - Core Concepts - Show Concepts \r\n\r\nCOUNSEL: Peter Weiss, New York City (Rhonda Copelon, John Corwin and Jose Antonio Lugo, Center for Constitutional Rights, New York City, and Michael Maggio, Goren & Maggio, Washington, D. C., of counsel), for plaintiffs-appellants. \r\n\r\nMurry D. Brochin, Newark, N. J. (Lowenstein, Sandler, Brochin, Kohl, Fisher & Boylan, P. C., Newark, N. J., of counsel), for defendant-appellee. \r\n\r\nIrving Gornstein, Atty., Dept. of Justice, Washington, D. C. (Drew S. Days, III, Asst. Atty. Gen., John E. Huerta, Deputy Asst. Atty. Gen., Roberts B. Owen, Legal Advisor, William T. Lake, Deputy Legal Advisor, Stefan A. Riesenfeld, Charles Runyon and Linda A. Baumann, Attys., Dept. of State, Washington, D. C.), for the U. S. as amicus curiae. \r\n\r\nDonald L. Doernberg, New York City, and David S. Weissbrodt, Minneapolis, Minn., for Amnesty International-U. S. A., Intern. League for Human Rights, and the Lawyers\' Committee for Intern. Human Rights as amici [**2] curiae. \r\n\r\nAllan Abbot Tuttle, and Steven M. Schneebaum, Washington, D. C., for The Intern. Human Rights Law Group, The Council on Hemispheric Affairs and the Washington Office on Latin America as amici curiae. \r\n','2003-06-11 17:41:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3516,1,3591,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Very good research, Stuart. Thanks! If anyone out there can tell us where the Carter administration came down on this one, let us know. It could be decisive to this controversy.','2003-06-11 18:51:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3517,1,3622,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','That\'s a tough one; I was thinking about it on the ride in to work this morning.\r\n\r\nPractically, I have two responses:\r\n\r\n1) I absolutely don\'t believe in asset forfeiture as it is currently applied. It simply puts the police on commission, and moves us back toward the days of letters of marque and reprisal.\r\n\r\n2) But it is typically applied now to mid- and low-level drug dealers as a part of our foolish \"war\" on drugs.\r\n\r\nIn the same sense that I have no trouble distinguishing between the treatment I think domestic arrestees are entitled to - even those arrested for potential acts of terror - and the treatment enemy combatents taken on the field of war are entitled to, I have no problem distinguishing between the consideration that should have been given to Donald Scott (Malibu landowner killed as a part of a botched police raid - a raid aimed at attaching his valuable property) and that which is due to one of the thugs currently running Burma or the Congo.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-11 18:54:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3518,1,3613,'67.75.31.9','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','... and couldn\'t possibly be relevant to events today...\r\n\r\nBWAHAHAHAHAHAHA and a hearty har-dee-har-har !! \r\n','2003-06-11 19:30:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3519,1,3592,'217.185.246.234','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\n*brrr* it is really disillusioning to read all these wrong and dangerous allegations about the reality in the EU.\r\n\r\n\"When you can be arrested and declared PNG for trying to organise a meeting at which people *might* be expected to express opinions in contradition to the party line ...\"\r\n\r\nsorry, but you really reveal your deep ignorance of the EU system, and you reveal your big lack of knowlege.\r\ni have to wonder WHO inside of the US propagates this horror-pictures..\r\ni can ASSURE you we have enough oppositional meetings, and we have enough demonstrations and even strikes. besides this we have a vital press which can be very investigative and very oppositional in cases that need opposition to the gouvernmental line.\r\nwhat I could see in the US pre Iraq-war was much more concerning, there where different efforts to stop oppositional or gouvernment-critical speech, and you couldn\'t find ANY critic in any larger news paper or on any TV-Station. FOX-News is just the peak.\r\n\r\ndon\'t complain about lack of democracy and free speech without knowlege about Europe. as i said before - we are a liberal democracy, we value human rights, democratic tradition, liberty, freedom, free speech - and we act this way.\r\n\r\nit makes me sad to read all these horror-stories about lack of free speach in Europe, and i really would be interested in WHERE this comes from.\r\n\r\nfor sure some demonstrators get jailed if they don\'t act legally. but can i remember you of seattle \'99? not only a few demonstrators where jailed... and a suit at law in europe is for sure very fair and very democratic. you should just stop to propagate these horrific (and wrong) allegations.\r\n\r\ni would liked to have said a few more things about the importence of an strong and vital (and democratic, of course!) europe in the future of new world policy, but now i haven\'t enough time to do, but perhaps you can read again my former comment and try to comprehend what i really meant, and how important it is.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-11 20:13:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3520,1,3592,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','maxim -\r\n\r\nThigs are a little more complex over there...from *Dagens Nyheter*:\r\n\r\n\"On Sunday night Per Johansson, from Ornskoldsvik, was putting up posters critical of the EU in Brussels. Now the Belgian police have decided to send him back to Sweden - without giving any indication of how long this decision (of him being denied the right to entry Belgium again) is going to last. \r\n\r\nPer Johansson has been asked to leave Belgium before Wednesday (12 December). The decision by the Belgian police also means that he is not allowed to enter any of the other 15 countries within the Schengen agreement apart from Sweden, unless he has “appropriate documents”. The police in Brussels do not mention when he will be allowed back into Belgium.\"\r\n\r\nA.L. ','2003-06-11 20:34:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3521,1,3623,'68.165.59.45','Mark Basich','markbasich@earthlink.net','','He\'s been nominated to be the new Army Chief of Staff -- not Secretary of the Army. James Roche, who was recently Secretary of the Air Force and was a Navy officer well before that, has been nominated as Secretary of the Army. Rumsfeld\'s pretty serious about changing the Army.','2003-06-11 21:17:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3522,1,3591,'141.154.112.161','Martial','martial@modernprometheus.com','http://www.modernprometheus.com/despectaculis','TotalFina is being sued, but in Paris (in the French courts) and Brussels (the European courts). They were originally a part of the suit in the US too, but they somehow got out of it; I\'m not sure what happened.','2003-06-11 21:18:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3523,1,3623,'217.24.152.2','M','M@yahoo.com','','PLEASE dont miss the student\'s anti gov. demonstrations in IRAN','2003-06-11 21:23:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3524,1,3592,'217.185.237.60','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\ni wasn\'t there, and you wheren\'t there - who can say what has happend?\r\ngo, read \'indymedia\', it is full of these \'horror-stories\' you can look at german, belgian, canadian or US-American Indymedia....\r\n\r\ndo you want to tell me, you really think it is forbidden in europe to organize demonstrations and meetings that are gouvernment-critical? i will invite you to colonge and we can organize so many anti-EU meetings as you like.\r\n\r\nand all i know, in the US there are really serious problemns concerning expelations.\r\nyou are going to expel more than 18.000 muslims in the next months. go look at the US/Canadian border: it is full of refugees who say goodby to the US because they fear being expeled. and i know no one in europe has to have fear because of this. nor because of the possibility of beeing sent to kuba without reason, without prosecution, without rights.\r\nyou have problems inside of the US, if you want to close your eyes about this and realize someday in future how much these things destoyed your reputation in the world, or if you want to do something now for democracy and freedom is up to you.\r\n','2003-06-11 21:45:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3525,1,3623,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','We won\'t, M. Coming tomorrow...','2003-06-11 21:56:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3526,1,3616,'66.32.188.141','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Maybe the way isn\'t really to say...','2003-06-11 22:08:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3527,1,3592,'172.144.65.28','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','Maxim, why do you think those people are being expelled? I have issues/a lot of anger with the Ashcroft Justice Department, but those people are being asked to leave because they\'re illegal. Or they\'ve violated some immigration-related rule. I\'m sure some of them are just innocent victims of what\'s happening in the world, but many are here illegally. Why are we doing this? Because, before our lax attitude toward immigration violations/illegal aliens contributed toward the death of 3,ooo + Americans, American Muslims included. Why do so many of the people I speak to behave as if much of what has happened in the US in the past two years has no cause?\r\n\r\nNevertheless, those people weren\'t expelled for political views as Per Johansson was. ','2003-06-11 22:23:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3528,1,3592,'172.144.65.28','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','Also, as a liberal, even I would say that Indymedia is the last place one should go for correct information. Although I have in the apst read some rants over there that border on neo-nazi screeds.','2003-06-11 22:27:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3529,1,3591,'216.3.242.162','Randy Paul','randinho@yahoo.com','http://beautifulhorizons.blogspot.com','Stuart,\r\n\r\nMy mistake. My chronology was off as I thought the final appeal at the 2nd Circuit level was denied in 1981 and that it was not pursued any further as Pena-Irala had fled back to Paraguay. I apologize.\r\n\r\nIn any event, the present Bush administration did not (to my knowledge) file an amicus brief with regard to the Talisman Energy case filed in 2001, nor have they done so (to my knowledge) with the Raymonde Abrams v. Societe Nationale Des Chemins De Fer Francais case which is on appeal.\r\n\r\nThe lawyers Committe for Human Rights has a short backgrounder here (Acrobat reader required). They mention that the 2nd Circuit, 11th Circuit and 9th Circuit having supported actions based on the ATCA. They mention that the plaintiffs would have to meet a high standard to prevail when the defendant is a corporation, but \"At the same time, we reject the claims of those who contend – without any compelling evidence – that courts and corporate defendants are facing a proliferation\r\nof ATCA lawsuits, when in fact there have been only a small number of such cases filed to date, with most still at only a preliminary stage.\"\r\n\r\n','2003-06-11 22:41:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3530,1,3172,'216.115.231.178','R. Piper','piper@mail.com','','TO: Armed Liberal\r\n\r\nYour brief for Israel is the fact that it is a country that promotes values that you can support?\r\n\r\nYou mena values like ethnic cleansing, killing, torture, land stealing, destruction, right?\r\n\r\nYou surely do not appear to be either intellectually or morally armed.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-06-12 04:10:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3531,1,3616,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','\"But maybe the rain\r\nIsn\'t really to blame.\r\nSo I\'ll remove the cause...\r\nBut not the symptom!\"\r\n\r\n(Full Rocky Horror Picture Show soundtrack lyrics)','2003-06-12 05:09:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3532,1,3172,'172.140.97.144','infamouse','lindenen@aol.com','','You mena values like ethnic cleansing, killing, torture, land stealing, destruction, right?\r\n\r\nPuh-leeeeeeeeeeease. ','2003-06-12 05:15:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3533,1,3604,'64.58.12.2','Gary Farber','gfarber@savvy.com','http://amygdalagf.blogspot.com','I\'ve written a lot about this. \r\n\r\nAnd I have a very simple take. Perhaps it\'s too simplistic, but there it is.\r\n\r\nSubstitute the word \"Jews\" for \"Lendu\" or \"Hema.\"\r\n\r\nThen say, gee, gosh, it would cost a lot to save them. \r\n\r\nTough luck if millions die, because it\'s expensive, it\'s awkward, it\'s tough, to save them.\r\n\r\nBye, bye, Jews. Too bad. It\'s expensive to save them. It\'s expensive to save you black people, you Hema, you Lendu. It\'s tough to keep track of your names, even. Even your clan, your tribe, your people.\r\n\r\nBye-bye. Die in peace. Die by the thousands. Die by the tens of thousands. Die by the hundreds of thousands. Die by the millions. I have fast food. Bye-bye. I don\'t need to go to trouble. Bye-bye. Die well. Bye-bye. My conscience is untroubled. I could have saved you for a few days of work, but I don\'t want to be troubled. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.\r\n\r\nDie well. \r\n\r\nI can\'t be bothered to take a few minutes or hours to help stop it. \r\n\r\nBye-bye. \r\n\r\nDie well. \r\n\r\nDie. ','2003-06-12 05:27:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3534,1,3592,'67.119.9.160','Valentine','valentine_rodrigues@hotmail.com','','there are other problems in the US, especially the low rate of voters in elections \r\n\r\nAn American Govt. professor I once had said that while media and sometimes those in politics complain about low voter turnout this is in actuality a good thing. Why? Because the low turnout is usually due to voter apathy. Yes an apathy towards goverment. This happens when a voter is generally pleased (not necessarily completely) with the way things are going or when the candidates have both good standings. I\'m actually pleased we have a low voter turnout in some cases. While it means decisions hang on fewer votes, it also tells me that the general public are CONFIDENT in our government and also in ourselves to correct the government if necessary.\r\n\r\nOh and indymedia isn\'t what I would call a reliable source of information. This is the same type of site that denies the holocaust or its numbers. So if you want to be deemed credible if I were you I wouldnt spout just about ANYTHING from their site.','2003-06-12 06:01:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3535,1,3623,'65.129.100.61','TJ Jackson','Swaziland2@msn.com','','Good sign? Given the multitude of government lies surrounding Waco it appears the government has selected another careerist who will not rock the boat. I was marooned in Laredo during the hearings so had ample time to witness the exposure of government lies and cover-up. When a professional soldier cannot access an assault, can we expect any degree of candidness or honesty in the future? ','2003-06-12 07:32:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3536,1,3592,'62.104.216.89','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','seeing an advantage in a low voter rate really surprises me. do you really think many people without knowlege about policy are a good thing in a democracy?\r\nand do you really think those out of south-central LA and out of the worst neighborhoods in new york don\'t vote because of their general confidency in US gouvernment? i would doubt this.\r\n\r\nfor sure, SOME of those who don\'t vote cant decide, have no time etc. thats the same in every western democracy, but seeing voting rates of less than 50% in presidential elections means for the most people who didn\'t vote: they are not interestet or they are disillusioned.\r\nyes, perhaps a mount of them are really confident in general - but is NOT patricipating nor interesting in national policy RALLY a good thing in a democracy.\r\n\r\nmore to come, have no more time by now.','2003-06-12 07:40:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3537,1,3591,'63.229.223.184','Stephen M. St. Onge','saintonge@hotmail.com','','Having actually looked at the DOJ brief, at http://www.unocal.com/myanmar/doj.pdf, it is not clear that the Justice Dept. is right, but it does seem intellectually defensible.\r\n\r\nI don\'t know what past administrations have done in other cases, but I don\'t see that the question is relevant. The Buchanan administration did not try to prevent the Confederate seccession, therefore Lincoln should have allowed it to go forward because Buchanan didn\'t act? That\'s the kind of argument being made there.\r\n\r\nI note for the record that, even if Unocal pays through the nose on this, it is not clear that anyone still stuck in Burma will be any better off.\r\n\r\nThat said, if the Supreme Court ultimately finds that U.S. courts have jurisdiction, then the suit would seem to turn on questions of fact: did Unocal know the Burmese military would behave the way it did? Should it have known? Did it make any attempts to stop their atrocious behaviour?\r\n\r\nStuart Buck says:\r\n\"But I have a visceral trust for the sort of \'legal analysis\' that consists merely of 1) deciding ahead of time which side you like better, 2) claiming that your preferred side should automatically win regardless of what the law actually says (this is \'prejudice\' in the most literal sense) and 3) claiming that anyone with a different view of what the law says must be an evil person because they didn\'t like your preferred outcome. You\'d think the left would be more attuned to the vacuousness of this sort of argumentation; think of how many left-wing defense lawyers have been accused of supporting criminals when they got someone off \'on a technicality\' [i.e., by following the law].\"\r\n\r\nhttp://stuartbuck.blogspot.com/2003_06_01_stuartbuck_archive.html#200414306\r\n\r\nBut claiming that Ashcroft and Co. are defending the use of slave labor would appear to be a lie.','2003-06-12 07:45:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3538,1,3626,'216.26.4.38','Michael J. Totten','michaeltotten001@yahoo.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','Good Lord, what an article. Such infighting. Wow! Grab the popcorn, indeed.\r\n\r\nThanks for linking it. \r\n\r\nOne thing I like about Stephen Schwartz: The man does not mince words. ','2003-06-12 07:54:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3539,1,3604,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Gsry, if you\'re making the beginnings of a moral argument, you\'re on solid ground. I know you\'ve posted about this, so I know you go beyond this beginning. For those who haven\'t read Amygdala, it\'s important to note that thinking must not end at that point.\r\n\r\nThere are always practical considerations. Saving the Jews was more than hard - it took the whole Second World War, fought for other reasons, to do it. It was not \"a few hours or minutes,\" either, just as Iraq was not. Just as Congo would not be. For many, it would be ALL their hours and minutes. Let\'s not forget that, or trivialize what\'s involved.\r\n\r\nI\'ll also note that even WWII largely failed as a vehicle for saving the Jews, and would have largely failed even if the allies had made it a focus by bombing the camps. Europe\'s Jews were in the wrong place, at the wrong time, unarmed and facing real human evil. \"Die well\" was indeed the order of the day for many.\r\n\r\nAs it is for many people in Africa, and will be whatever we decide. \r\n\r\nI\'ve been very impressed by the people in this thread, many of whom have posted well thought-out options and noted important constraints. There are indeed limits to America\'s capabilities, and short of wartime mobilization it has reached them and more. There are also limits for any international force to take into account, which is why Jay\'s idea, if conducted seriously rather than as Srebrenica II, is a useful contribution.\r\n\r\nOutside those safer zones, and in other places like the Sudan, tens of thousands and more will die. We can\'t be everywhere. We should be in some of these places. Practical considerations, cold-blooded capabilities analysis, and confidence in the long-term plan forward (or belief that survival offers no alternative) will determine both where we choose to be and how much can and will be done to bring down those numbers.\r\n\r\nSometimes, the depressing answer to how much we can do is: \"not much,\" or \"not much, unless we\'re prepared to jettison many of our existing beliefs.\" In which case, tragedy may be all that\'s left. Sometimes, in a fallen world where human evil is real, the only legacy for the future is a cautionary tale.','2003-06-12 08:00:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3540,1,3592,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','RE: Indymedia comments. Linden, Valentine, in fairness to Maxim he was making the same point you are - that anyone getting their news from it would have a very warped view of the world. At which point, he implicitly draws the analogy to say that many of the things he reads here seem to be analagous: products of selective and biased sources that paint a false picture of the EU.\r\n\r\nI don\'t necessarily agree with that last bit, but thought it only fair to set the record straight on what he\'s arguing.\r\n\r\nVoter turnout is a digression to me - I\'d just as soon we stuck to the topic of the article. Is the EU structurally \"safe\" in a political sense, basically trustworthy but preoccupied with the usual bugs and stupidities of human foibles? Or is it a danger to political liberty whose untrustworthy essence lies in its very structure, and what we\'re seeing now is just the thin edge of a darker wedge?\r\n\r\nThe answers matter. A Lot.','2003-06-12 08:17:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3541,1,3626,'68.161.132.156','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','This is all so . . . arcane. . . .','2003-06-12 09:53:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3542,1,3626,'172.155.174.244','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','Trotskycon? Or Donkey Kong?\r\n\r\nIt\'s a relief to see someone classifying \"neocons\" not as Jews as so many not-son-in-the-closet-but-in-denial anti-Semites have been doing lately...','2003-06-12 13:02:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3543,1,3623,'65.169.153.225','Unlearned Hand','unlearned@unlearnedhand.com','http://www.unlearnedhand.com','TJ, I think the relevant point is that Schoomaker\'s unwillingness to assess the plan, either positively or negatively, suggests he understands the important divide between civilian and military affairs, will not try to blur that line, and may bring this understanding to Iraq, where we are trying to use a military force to conduct police operations.','2003-06-12 13:51:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3544,1,3592,'66.26.230.90','Justin','stumpybregman@hotmail.com','','\"what I could see in the US pre Iraq-war was much more concerning, there where different efforts to stop oppositional or gouvernment-critical speech, and you couldn\'t find ANY critic in any larger news paper or on any TV-Station. FOX-News is just the peak.\"\r\n\r\nMaxim, you really need to spend some time in the United States or get your information from better sources. This statement is a joke. Fox News is one of FOUR major television news networks, and the ONLY one that shows a pro-American/pro-conservative slant. All of the others show a distinct liberal slant (though Fox News\'s popularity is changing that some, gotta love the free marketplace of ideas). And maybe you should watch Fox News, because they often have some of the most vigorous debates about the most controversial topics.\r\n\r\nCouldn\'t find any critic in larger newspapers? Um, ever heard of the New York Times? The LA Times? That\'s just the tip of the iceberg of news media that ripped into Bush and his foreign policy without pausing for a second, even STILL criticizing the fact that we went to war. \r\n\r\nEfforts to stop oppositional speech? I must have missed that story. But I guess if you consider arguing for war and criticizing anti-war protests \"efforts to stop oppositional speech\" you would be right. I consider that healthy debate. \r\n\r\nI just couldn\'t sit and let this terribly simplistic and propagandized lie go unchallenged. Maybe I also am getting bad information, but I\'ve heard that the debate in Europe over the war was very one-sided, at least in France, where the state-run media was a constant stream of anti-American, anti-Bush propaganda. \r\n\r\nIf you still think America is a land of gun toting religious redneck cowboys who are too stupid and simplistic to have an intense debate over important foreign policy decisions, GET REAL. \r\n','2003-06-12 13:56:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3545,1,3624,'208.187.143.149','Charles Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','','Joe, as a third generation Red Sox fan (my earliest baseball memeory is of Enos Slaughter heading home while Pesky held the ball)I concur. But remember as good as this is, it is only June and in the pennant race, September is usually the Yankee\'s month.','2003-06-12 14:13:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3551,1,3592,'216.99.197.33','jeanne a e devoto','jaed@jaedworks.com','http://bittersanity.blogspot.com',' products of selective and biased sources that paint a false picture of the EU\r\n\r\nUm, the proposed EU constitution? ;-)\r\n\r\nSeriously, we are not talking about vague presentiments of doom here; we\'re talking about structural problems, lack of checks and balances. For example, John Farren remarked that the European Parliament is pretty toothless, and then says:\r\n\r\nWhy does this not worry me? Because the Council is comprised of ministers from each of the governments of the member states. The legitimacy in EU decisions derives from the agreement of states. The democratic accountability is via the elections of those govenments at national level.\r\n\r\nHowever, the elections of those national governments will be profoundly influenced by the EU power structure, because that structure decides which political parties are legitimate enough to participate in EU elections. They can\'t (as far as I know) forbid a party from standing in national elections... but the difference in perceived legitimacy will probably be great, particularly in countries that are more deeply invested psychologically in the EU, so the EU structure will be exerting a great deal of control, in practice, over the range of viewpoints considered legitimate in the elections that indirectly determine the EU\'s composition.\r\n\r\nThat\'s a bona fide structural problem. So is the fact that the only way for the people to exert influence over the EU is indirect - people -> national legislators and executive -> national bureaucracy -> EU bureaucracy.\r\n\r\nNow structural problems do not imply that the people of Europe are slavering to set up gulags and whatever else Michael Totten mentioned, but that\'s not really the question; the question is whether the structure will prevent anyone who lusts for power from gaining too much of it.\r\n\r\nIf you\'ve got a governmental structure that\'s conducive to tyranny, you may be lucky for ten years, or for several generations, but eventually such a person or party will appear and the weakness will catch up to you. (If you have as well a credulous population that can be easily swayed to feelings of unity if you tell enough lies about an invented enemy, it\'s even easier, and in such a case a sound structure is even more essential.)','2003-06-12 17:33:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3547,1,3621,'129.29.227.2','rkb','studio@fcc.net','','Yesterday\'s Wall Street Journal reported that the US is considering small bases in a number of African countries, including Mali, Somalia, Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco ... \r\n\r\n','2003-06-12 14:57:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3548,1,3623,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','TJ, note that he was asked to review the plan before the assault, and thereby participate in it...\r\n\r\n...not afterwards in order to exonerate the participants.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-12 15:07:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3549,1,3591,'216.3.242.162','Randy Paul','randinho@yahoo.com','http://beautifulhorizons.blogspot.com','Stuart, also, to his credit, acknowledges that he has not read the brief in response to the DOJ brief (which was also easy to find). It\'s in MicroSoft Word format here.','2003-06-12 16:05:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3550,1,3627,'62.49.247.244','Ali','complacency@hotmail.com','http://www.islamicdigest.net/','Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim\r\n\r\n\r\nSalaams to the Believers,\r\n\r\nTehran, Islamic Iran,June 11, 2003 - Nineteen members of a political group allegedly backed and sponsored by the United States have been arrested in Islamic Iran, Information Minister Shaykh Ali Yunessi said Wednesday.\r\n\r\n![](\"http://www.islamicdigest.org/gallery/albums/userpics/younesi1-jam.jpg\")
\r\n\r\nThe group \"has been formed and financed by the U.S. to create chaos in Iran\'s political circles\", Yunessi told the Iranian Student News Agency (ISNA). \r\n\r\nThe minister gave no further details and did not clarify whether the group was involved in a gathering early Wednesday where some 1,500 students and others protested against university privatization plans. \r\n\r\nYunessi said that 80 persons who he termed \"hooligans\" were arrested and documents were found to prove their linkage to Iranian monarchists abroad.Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi had earlier called on his U.S. counterpart not to incite Iranian youth ag ainst the Islamic administration. \r\n\r\nU.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said on Sunday that although the U.S. was not seeking to overthrow the Islamic system, his country would like to see political change in Iran to make the country less troublesome in the world community.\r\n\r\n(Source: islamicdigest.net\r\n\r\nIn related news, Imam Khamenei(HA) said in a speech to the people on the June 12th, 2003, \"The enemies bluntly support those adventurers who can become their mercenaries by perturbing people\'s security. Thus, the whole nation, the youth and and officials in particular, must remain vigilant,\" the Supreme Leader told a gathering of jubilant people in Varamin, south of Tehran. \r\n\r\n![](\"http://www.iribnews.com/newspic/03/06/12/leader/002.jpg\")
\r\n\r\nUS plans to stir up unrest and tensions in the Islamic Republic reveal the enemy\'s weakness since Washington has confessed it is unable to directly confront Iranians, Imam Khamenei(HA) said.\r\n\r\n\"If Americans had been able to eliminate the Islamic establishment, they would not have hesitated even for a day; but the enemy has realised that it cannot do anything against the valiant Iranian nation, especially the brave youth. Thus, it [the US] frankly declares that \'our strategy in confronting Iran is not a war and we have to create unrest in Iran\',\" Imam Khamenei(HA) added.\r\n\r\n![](\"http://www.iribnews.com/newspic/03/06/12/leader/008.jpg\")
\r\n\r\nThe Supreme Leader also advised the country\'s \"faithful and Hezbullahi youth to avoid the scenes which the trouble makers have prepared\".\r\n\r\n\"It must not be allowed that the atmosphere becomes tense and a handful of individuals contaminate the society and universities by creating insecurity. \r\n\r\n![](\"http://www.iribnews.com/newspic/03/06/12/leader/005.jpg\")
\r\n\r\n\"However, if the Iranian nation decides to deal with rioters, they will act like in July 2, 1999,\" he said in reference to a mass show of support for the establishment following days of violent unrest, in which police, students and vigilantes clashed at the Tehran University campus and neighboring streets.\r\n\r\nWasalaam to the Believers,\r\n\r\n\r\nAli','2003-06-12 17:16:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3552,1,3627,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Thanks, Ali, that was funny. The Iranian government are definitely running scared. Let\'s keep them running.','2003-06-12 17:35:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3553,1,3171,'199.218.243.147','Kevin Gildea','gildea@dayton.net','','David Henze\'s arguments only serve to heighten the level of the problem at the academy. I wish that I had seen his post sooner to post a response. The entire problem is that the cadets did not live up to the honor code. They did something far more serious than oversleeping. First they committed a felony and the \"No excuse sir\" was never forthcoming. A cover up and intimidation of the victims and witnesses ensued. Additionally, obstruction of justice could probably be added depending on the circumstances. Rather than acting like officers and gentleman your cadet leadership and the academy hierarchy acted like thugs and convicts. \r\n\r\nThese individuals ability to make sound decisions in high pressure situations is in doubt. They made very poor and felonious decisions and then couldn\'t honestly face the consequences of those choices. These choices only involved themselves and a few other people. How will they do when the stakes are much, much higher in a combat situation.','2003-06-12 17:53:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3554,1,3591,'216.61.195.161','Stuart Buck','stuartbuck@msn.com','http://stuartbuck.blogspot.com','Mr. Paul: Perhaps your Google skills are better than mine. I gladly cede you that point, although I\'m not sure why you deem it so significant.\r\n\r\nI can\'t get your link to the plaintiff\'s brief to work. Can you try again? ','2003-06-12 18:10:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3555,1,3591,'216.3.242.162','Randy Paul','randinho@yahoo.com','http://beautifulhorizons.blogspot.com','I\'ll let the entire URL get listed rather an HTML link this time: http://www.earthrights.org/atca/oppositionbrieftodoj.doc\r\n\r\nIt\'s not so much googling skills. I just note that Earth Rights, the Lawyers Committee for Human Rights and Human Rights Watch, three organizations backing the use of the ATCA under these circumstances also provided a link to the DOJ brief.','2003-06-12 18:54:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3556,1,3629,'192.189.236.20','Dean','sunzi36@yah00.com','','I think you\'ve opened a can of worms that one side of the political spectrum has sworn never to absorb. \r\n\r\nBecause once you accept that talking is simply pointless in ONE case, say the Arab-Israeli situation, then you have to accept two things: \r\n\r\nA. It is useless in other venues. \r\nB. There is a difference in the standings of the two parties. \r\n\r\nSo long as one can dismiss BOTH sides (be it moral equivalency or \"pox on both houses\"), then one can be \"above\" the violence. Suggesting an end to negotiations, unless you\'re prepared to walk away entirely, means that, ultimately, you favor one side or the other. \r\n\r\nThat creates a fundamental bit of cognitive dissonance: alienate the Jewish vote by walking away, or recognize that the Palestinians, despite being the putative \"under-dog\", less well-armed and a \"third world\" entity and all the rest, may also be in the wrong. ','2003-06-12 19:46:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3557,1,3626,'194.205.123.3','Harry','formercommunists@hotmail.com','http://hurryupharry.blogspot.com','Thanks for the link but Blogspot permalinks not working (what a surprise)\r\n\r\nUntil I move to MT best to link to the main page\r\n*HARRY\'S PLACE*\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-06-12 20:15:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3558,1,3629,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Your comments decsribes well the deliberately-blind mindset of the left, and its consequences. But many liberal hawks (and many Jews who are just plain liberals or leftward) are beginning to question this and other assumptions. I know I won\'t convince wilfullly-blind ideologues... but I can write for those who will give me a hearing, and I do.','2003-06-12 20:15:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3559,1,3629,'66.127.212.5','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Speaking of cognitive dissonance, there is a great difference between legitimate complaints of non-combatant Palestinians who do indeed suffer under Israeli occupation and the motivations of the terrorists. Terrorism by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc. is not a response to the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, or to the building of settlements. They are motivated by their hatred of Israel, true, but mostly they do what they do because it keeps them in power.\r\n\r\nWhat would Hamas be without terrorism? Would one-eyed clerics who have spewed venom all their lives, given the appropriate set of concessions, easily redirect their energies to the administration of social services?\r\n\r\nThese people know as well as anyone else that they\'re not going to destroy Israel, and they know damn well that every act of terrorism extends the occupation and suffering of the Palestinians--that\'s why they do it.','2003-06-12 20:28:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3560,1,3629,'217.2.15.53','Person of Choler','ghry2003@yahoo.com','','I read lots of criticism of the \"roadmap\". Everybody says that it won\'t work, and they might be right. So, can somebody explain in plain language some specific steps that WILL work? And skip the the parts about how bad the Palestinians are, we know that and fully agree. The question is: What do you recommend to DO with them?','2003-06-12 20:59:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3561,1,3629,'213.243.148.103','JH','jussimhamalainen@luukku.com','','I do have a suggestion:an international occupation force of the West Bank and Gaza,fully armed and with the mandate,and obligation, to take down any organisation that defies the ceasefire.In return Israel would retreat its forces and ease some of the restrictions on the Palestinians.\r\n\r\nWhy it could work:even if the Palestinians chose the fight the \"IOF\",the most they could achieve,militarily,would be the return of the IDF.And if,say,Hamas and others managed to send some Swedish soldiers back home in bodybags,that would only create a lot more understanding on the part of the international community for Israel\'s actions.In short,it would be a lose-lose strategic situation for the Palestinians.\r\n\r\nWhy it can\'t work:no nation with any sense would sent their soldiers to that hell-hole,let alone take the responsibility for securing peace.But,apart from that,it could just work.','2003-06-12 21:13:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3562,1,3629,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','JH, Who would staff that force? The French? The EU? The Chinese? No Israeli believes that any force sent would actually live up to the mandate you specify - a belief reinforced by the conduct of international forces sent to the area since the 1970s. so, that solution is out.\r\n\r\nClue, here\'s one: if one of the parties is absolutely determined to wage war, there cannot be peace no matter how much you want it. Indeed, as we saw with Serbia, \"peace processes\" are just a tool to restrain and weaken their enemies. Worked, too.\r\n\r\nHamas and Hezbollah are openly genocidal. Arafat\'s Fatah has spent years inculcating genocidal hate, and openly murders in the streets any Palestinian even believed to be friendly toward Israel. Until Hamas, Hezbollah, and Arafat are dead, there will be no peace AND THERE CAN BE NO PEACE. You wish for peace? Guess what - your wishes are irrelevant because they do not.\r\n\r\nWhen PA PM Mazen said he would never use force against Hamas or Hezbollah under any circumstances, he said there was no alternative to war. Because confronting them from within was the only real long term alternative. Hamas, Hezbollah, and Arafat have to dissolve or die - and then peace might have a real chance.\r\n\r\nIsrael plays along with the roadmap because U.S. actions in the reason hold the hope of doing what they cannot - remove the state support and weaken the organized hatred that keeps these evil men and organizations alive. To do so is a major act of trust, especially given the USA\'s poor record with allies. On the whole, however, that\'s a defensible strategic decision with acceptable casualty rates - IF the USA does what they say they will, and holds Palestinians to a similar standard with real cosequences for refusal or failure.\r\n\r\nIf the USA does not hold Palestinians to a similar standard, this is either the beginning of the end of Israel\'s existence or the beginning of a slide toward total war between Israel, a future Palestinian state, and any allies it has. Them\'s the stakes.\r\n\r\nSo far, the Palestinians and Arabs are being held to nothing, and asked for nothing. Comes a point where such behaviour needs to mean either real punishment until behaviour changes (no aid, no assistance, listing Fatah as a banned terrorist organization, etc). If that fails, it must also mean at minimum the end of talks, and public shelving of US support for a Palestinian state until and unless these requirements are met.\r\n\r\nWhich they will not be, until Hamas and Hezbollah are destroyed, and Arafat is dead. They have left no alternative to war, and will not change - the only questions are war with whom, and on what terms. They would prefer a war against a maximally-disarmed and fettered enemy, of course, both in the immediate term and in future.\r\n\r\nWhich is why intoning the term \"peace process\" as if it has any real meaning is not only foolish - it\'s immoral.','2003-06-12 21:57:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3563,1,3629,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Dean:\r\n\r\nI disagree with your point A:\r\nWhat has become poinless is talking in this specific case. Conflict between nations/cultures/religions is far too complex to generalize.\r\n\r\nPeople who think they can obtain what the want through violence will only be stopped by violence. Hamas, et al are hooked on violence, and the power violence gives them. They will never give up until all the Israelis are dead(spoken by their leaders countless times).\r\n\r\nSome addictions may only be broken by going cold turkey; and sometimes, the addict dies.\r\n\r\nIs there any doubt who is wrong now?? Israel takes one step forward for peace, and Hamas takes ten steps backwards.\r\n\r\nJoe:\r\n\r\nI am leaning closer and closer to your position as the minutes go by. I was very hopeful, until Hamas pulled out last w/e (yes?) then knew it was only a matter of time before they attacked again, knowing that Israel would retaliate.\r\n\r\nBut I still believe the attempt had to be made. It should be more clear to the world (but of course, there will always be some that take the Palestinian\'s side) that Israel did take steps in the direction of peace, by meeting with Abu Mazzen and closing some outposts. The fact that they were small outpost doesn\'t negate the fact that Sharon, who has been allowing new settlements to be built all along, reversed course and took steps towards peace.\r\n\r\nOn the other hand, Mazzen talked the talk, but couldn\'t walk the walk.\r\n\r\nA peaceful solution between two parties in conflict cannot be found unless the people in control of each party wish for peace. I think that three out of the four parties are ready:\r\nthe Israeli people, the Israeli government and the Palestinian people (a majority, but probably not large.\r\nHowever, the Palestinian \"government\" does not want peace, and probably never will.\r\n\r\nSo the choices boil down to this:\r\n\r\nIsrael is destroyed\r\n\r\nor\r\n\r\nthe Palestinian government is destroyed\r\n\r\nI think you can guess my choice, and I am certain that the Israeli government will make the same choice. The question is, when??\r\n\r\nWhen your leg is caught in a trap, or you have gangrene in your arm, there is no question what you must do. There is no reason to wait any longer-delay can only make things worse.','2003-06-12 22:58:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3564,1,3592,'217.185.237.43','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\nat least is think we have to learn MUCH, MUCH, MUCH about each other.\r\neven if we thought all the years during the colad war europe and america stand together as near as its possible, by now i think this part of time has alienated us.\r\nto me it looks as the europeans and the US have much more in common, and much more common intrests and ideas then many would think - because they are alienated to each other and really lack depper knolege about each other. not every single person here and there fits in this sheme but enough people on both sides of the atlantic do.\r\n\r\nthanks to Joe for explaining this indymedia thing. i hope the lack of understanding was not caused by my bad english.\r\n\r\nyou summarized the whole problem very good. is the EU generally a democratic, safe and good thing featured with the results of human foibles. or is it the way to a new ussr, or at least a new totalitarian system because of a lack of checks and balances, because of too much power concentrated to few elites and the permanent danger of beeing misused?\r\nwhat is europe and what will it be? a strong, free, safe haven; or a ne danger to world order in the new century.\r\n\r\nand i know, the EU is democratic, and does not lack checks and balances, and it has not the \'feature\' of much power beeing concentratet on few elites - but i also klnow it IS \'featured\' with a lack of functionality, with general problems, with strange arrangements, with all these results of human foibles. and it is a normal process als these will be eliminated - and have to be eliminated.\r\nby now, ideed, there is a lack of clear transparancy, but not because the structure is made intransparent for it\'s citizens but because of it is too difficult, too big, too unweildy - but it is a normal process, and it will take place (and it already takes places, IN THESE DAYS at the EU konvent) that these structures will be opened and made more transparent - because this is no longer a europe of kings, no longer a europe of nationstates, but has become a europe of the people. and this EU is the result not of a europe of kings or nations but of their people who came together after centurys of bloody wars and recognized what they had in common - and what are their diffenreces - and joint a leage of nations who are themselfes no longer are nationalstates[this is a german word i don\'t know if it exists in english: it should mean a state defined by a nation in the meaning of nationality/race].\r\n\r\njustin: what you said about NYT (and WaPo, too) is true and i know, because i read them during the war and in the end of the war: you are absolutely right there where critical comments during all the time - but you can\'t deny even in these papers the patriotism (and sometimes the border to nationals is a very thin one) was represented broadly. and this was even more the case in other newspapers.\r\nit is okay, and this is democracy too(or at least economy..), to write what the people buy and want to buy. but that there IS a danger to free speach if on the broader media only patriotic themes are noticeable is not denyable.\r\nand if this danger came or came not reality in the days of war: if FOX does not more than just repeat what the gouvernment said about things without only to think about questioning it, is dangerous if it spreads.\r\n\r\nbut if this what you wrote is true - then i was as wrong about american media as you are about european one.\r\n\r\nfor sure the media was critical on the things Bush said, and on the things Rumsfeld said (at least because of he was wonderful in deeply insulting us) - but they where at least so critical to schroeder and chiraq as to blair and bush.\r\nthere was a wide debate about schroeders foreign policy, and about it\'s mistakes, and the critics, those who offended and those who supported the war, had mainly a common opinion: what he did, and the way he did was very wrong. i think in the days of war and in the days of the UNSC meetings in the german media, and between the german intelectuals the critic on schroeder was harder than those on bush ever was.\r\nfor sure there where questions about the honesty of bush\'s and blairs efforts, and the where doubts and critical question about their stories on wmd\'s. but THIS is exactly what a free press should do - and by now we can say they where not wrong in asking these questions, and they wheren\'t wrong in their doubts.\r\nyou can believe me our press was never the way you described, and i belive you the american press and media was better than i thought.\r\n\r\n\"If you still think America is a land of gun toting religious redneck cowboys who are too stupid and simplistic to have an intense debate over important foreign policy decisions, GET REAL.\"\r\n\r\nif you read the posts above, and those out of other articles, you should know, and i think you do know, i do not think this way.\r\ni wouldn\'t underline the importance of going together if i would think we would go together with a stupid, redneck happy trigger cowboy.\r\nbut to be fair this is (perhaps not this hard, but it is in this direction.) the view of some europeans by now - these are not the majority, but they are growing. this is not the picture presented us by an state-controlles television and print-media, but this can be the view of those who only recognize small cut-outs of a whole picture. and these cut-outs are normally the strangest and the extremest ones - this does not mean these cut-outs are wrong, but it means they are not representative.\r\nseeing people in a house full of guns, loving to shoot all they, talking about theri love of guns - perhaps it is a true picture, but it is not representative.\r\ni know this problem, i know it exists on both sides of the atlantic, i know it exists all over the world. what is out, what is the averange americans view about \'the arabs\'? how those about \'the french\'?\r\n\r\nthe picture of \'the american\' you described is as wrong as the picture some, also here, draw about french/europeans/the EU/the arabs/[..]. i only can say it with your words: GET REAL! and this should mean _all_ those who know evidently much to less about \'the others\'.\r\n\r\n\" because that structure decides which political parties are legitimate enough to participate in EU elections\"\r\n\r\nNO, NO, NO!!!\r\n\r\nthis is not the case, this sounds like horror, and if this where the cas i can assure you i would take THE NEXT pilgrim ship to america.\r\nwe have very free elections, we have elections on the EU-parliament. and there is NO structure in any nation who can forbid any partys (except of germany, where the \'supreme court\' can do this after a long and difficult procedure where it has to proof that this party is against the german constitution and it\'s freedom and democracy. this has taken place one time in history; in the 1950\'s the KPD the communist party who wanted to abolish the german constitution)\r\ni agree that there is not as much democracy and transparency inside of the EU as some can wish, but it really has enough of legitimacy. their structures, their members, their parliament get legitimacy either through elections, or thruogh the national gouvernments.\r\n\r\nand perhaps theres a general thing to clarify: the EU is a supranational organization. this means it IS what their embers allow it to BE. it is not a big black organization that decieds anything and every nation has to follow.\r\nthe nations themself decide, the EU is the federation of these nations, but the only one who decides are the nations themself. there is no \'EU bureaucracy\' that decides and every country has to follow. the countries themself decide the way they want to go. they fund it, they send the people who talk, and their governments decide.\r\n\'the EU\' does not mean any abstract building, or state-like organizations, but it means \'all neations who are together in this organization called EU speaking with one voice\' - remeber this if you think of \" \'the EU\' decieded...\", \" \'the EU\' said...\".\r\n\r\nsorry for not having any good last words and ideas, but by now it is 1.22am here ant i am tired now... good night :)\r\n\r\n','2003-06-13 00:23:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3565,1,3592,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','This is a great thread. Congratulations to all.','2003-06-13 01:12:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3566,1,3592,'216.99.192.120','jeanne a e devoto','jaed@jaedworks.com','http://bittersanity.blogspot.com','Maxim, shouting \"NO, NO, NO!!!\" does not change what the draft constitution says about political parties. JH, above, posted this:\r\n\r\nOnly parties with activity in several different countries may take part in parliamentary elections,and a majority of MEPs (europarliamentarians) may decide to drop off the parties that are considered insufficiently committed to \"the principles of freedom and democracy, human rights and fundamental freedoms, and the rule of law.\" \r\n\r\nWhat is dubious is that the documents at hand don\'t specify exactly what kind of activity would result in expulsion. It appears to be enough that the majority of MEPs consider it so.\r\n\r\nDo you disagree with this analysis? If so, can you specify which provisions of the draft EU constitution would prevent it? This would be far more helpful in understanding your position than vague assertions about how wonderful the EU is, how it is democratic, and so on. I have noticed that your response to arguments here has mostly been to hold up the good underlying values of Europeans. I understand that it is your sincere belief that these things are true.\r\n\r\nBut we are talking here about constitutional structure, not about wishes. A constitution is like an engineering project: its exact construction is more important than good intentions in determining the result. And so referring to specific parts of that structure, to show how these values are protected, would be best.\r\n\r\n we have very free elections, we have elections on the EU-parliament. and there is NO structure in any nation who can forbid any partys\r\n\r\nMaybe I wasn\'t clear. I am not saying that Europe does not have free elections, or that there are not elections for the EU parliament, or that any country can forbid a political party. What I am saying is that the draft constitution allows the EU to decide what parties may participate in elections for the EU parliament. This is dangerous for two reasons:\r\n\r\n1) It lets the EU use this method to insulate itself from its only democratic structure. (The EU might not forbid a party in order to protect itself from challenge, but that isn\'t the point. The point is that it can, because the structure of the constitution lets it.)\r\n\r\n2) It also lets the EU use this method to affect politics in national elections. It cannot forbid a party from participating in national elections, but if it forbids a party from EU elections, that will affect the party\'s legitimacy in the eyes of voters. In this way they can damage a party\'s prospects in national elections, even though they cannot forbid it directly. Because the main control over the EU is exerted by national governments, this is dangerous, because it allows the EU a way to subvert this control.','2003-06-13 02:16:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3567,1,3629,'216.26.7.124','Michael J. Totten','mike.totten@netiq.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','To the \"Person of Choler\":\r\n\r\nJoe was kind enough to link to my blog essay above. In this essay, I answer your question with a list of steps that might actually solve the problem. \r\n\r\nIf someone can come up with a better list of steps than mine, I\'d love to see it, but the \"road map\" ain\'t it.\r\n\r\nMichael J. Totten','2003-06-13 03:36:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3568,1,3629,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Phil,\r\n\r\nDean\'s point was that the transnational progressivists cannot EVER admit that diplomacy is useless, because then they\'d have to admit it could happen elsewhere, and that means having standards. So you two agree.','2003-06-13 03:41:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3569,1,3613,'12.231.54.69','Andrew Mayo','aplamm@attbi.com','','Moral imperialism? By jingo, what a genius. Imperialism to fight slavery in Arabia in \"the first decade of the nineteenth century?\" What do you think was goin on in Dixie at that time? And our moral superiority in the Phillippines? 200,000 civilians killed. And finally, quoting Washington and Jefferson as somehow promoting empire-building -- what a sad display of intellectual dishonesty. America\'s \"morality\" is the same as its policy toward \"free trade.\" It\'s strictly \"Do as I say. Not as I do.\" Johnson\'s article is bunk. ','2003-06-13 04:54:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3570,1,3629,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','Joe,\r\n\r\nWhat the heck are you doing up at 3:41 AM? It is 3:29 AM PST and so I\'m as bad as you are. \r\n\r\nRegarding the recent terrorist attacks: Hamas is no more going to stop conducting terrorist acts than ducks are going to wake up tomorrow and decide that they do not like paddling around in water. Negotiating with them using Egyptian proxies just emboldens them. What\'s the point? Why bother?\r\n\r\nOf course, it is a joke that Arafat is President of the PA. He\'s no better than Hamas. He just pays more lip service to the idea that he\'s willing to be reasonable and is not totally committed to the complete destruction of Israel.\r\n\r\nI think the Israelis needs to build very good walls to separate themselves from the Palestinians. It is absurd to imagine that a negotiated deal is going to end the attacks. Israel is going to have to give up on using Palestinian labor and just isolate themselves from the Palestinians. They should evacuate the Gaza settlements and all the remote West Bank settlements and erect tall walls with lots of sensors. \r\n\r\nThe Arabs are not going to really make peace in their own minds with the existence of Israel. ','2003-06-13 11:32:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3571,1,3629,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Joe:\r\n\r\nAfter a second (and third,...) reading, I see what you mean.\r\n\r\nDean, I stand corrected.\r\n\r\nRandall:\r\n\r\nGood walls will cut down on attacks for a while, but I doubt this would be a permanent fix. In the battle between offense and defense, given the time and resources, the \"impregnable fort\" will always fall. When you are at war, the only long term solution is defeat/destruction of your enemies\' will to fight. This may include physical destruction.','2003-06-13 12:12:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3572,1,3629,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Randall,\r\n\r\nBecause we have contributors from all over the world, Winds of Change is on GMT. I\'m at GMT -500, so 3:41am = 10:41pm where I sit. As for the rest, I agree.','2003-06-13 12:40:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3573,1,3613,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Andrew, if you had actually followed the link and read the article, you would have seen that Johnson was talking about the British in that paragraph.\r\n\r\nEarlier comments in other threads about the \"one true religion\" mindset of the modern left just rang a bell. This is just like those preachers who condemn movies and books as obscene without having to be bothered to see or read them...','2003-06-13 13:01:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3574,1,3628,'206.190.18.220','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Rommel had learned by 1942 that if you don\'t control the air you don\'t control the battle. By mid 1944 that lack of control put him in a hospital.\r\n\r\nYou will note that the emphasis of the articles is on fixed based aircraft. That is a problem that is solveable in part politically. What politics can\'t solve is aircraft carriers. We have 2 more on the way.','2003-06-13 13:57:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3575,1,3628,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Actually, missiles can solve those too. This is another reason the Chinese are worried about missile defense plans - they will allow America to project power to Taiwan, Korea et. al. without being deterred by a Chinese \"missile umbrella\" intended to keep their conventional forces at arm\'s length and establish a clear Chinese sphere of influence.\r\n\r\nRE: \"2 more carriers on the way\"... Pentagon procurement policies ensure that we may have the carriers, but we won\'t have the aircraft. Like every other part of the military, Naval aviation is already below capacity. Unless they turn those 2 carriers over to Marine aviation (hmmm...), they\'ll probably move to mothball 2 of the old non-nuclear carriers shortly thereafter.','2003-06-13 14:34:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3576,1,3628,'209.210.28.47','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Joe,\r\n\r\n Go read my article link to Jerry Pournelle\'s site.\r\n\r\n The most important part of missile development is an independent test and evaluation system to wring out the technical bugs.\r\n\r\n The Chinese test and evaluation system is hopelessly compromised and so are its missiles. ','2003-06-13 14:42:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3577,1,3628,'208.187.143.163','Charles Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','','In 1944 Rommel was a consultant to the Atlantic defense in France. Von Runstad (Sp) was the actual commander. Rommel had experience allied air power in the African campaign and realized that the defeat of the invasion of Europe had to occur on the beaches. Von Runstad wanted to keep his tanks in reserve and move them to the invasion spot once it was clear where that would be. Rommel realized that allied air power would make mincemeat out of moving tanks and they would never get to where they were needed. Fortunately for the Allies on D-Day, Von Runstad\'s carried the day and when the allies invaded they were able to get ashore in strength. Of course, Hitler loved it when his generals were arguing over strategy. In addition to sleeping through the early hours of D-Day, he also chose to listen to the wrong general. ','2003-06-13 14:55:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3578,1,3626,'65.222.181.131','Moe Lane','moelane_1999@yahoo.com','','It\'s the venue that startles me so: heck, I read NRO, and I never noticed until you pointed it out. Thanks!','2003-06-13 15:13:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3579,1,3617,'12.2.14.2','stever','steverar@execpc.com','','There are many things that can be done depending on what you want to accomplish.\r\n\r\nFeeding starving people? You can do that, but why are they starving? Are they dependent on you for food or can\'t they farm or what?\r\n\r\nHealth care? You can do that but why are they in need? Is the local UN/NGO the defacto health dept or do superstitions prevent or what?\r\n\r\nIdeally something like US/Western democratic government & lifestyle. Which means that people in any African country have representative govenment, can have a job, can get an education, are not subject to roving bands of thieves, bandits, rebels, etc.\r\n\r\nHowever, current Western debate stalls at how best to implement, filter and apply. The UN, EU, Environmental orgs and NGOs all have their say. In the meantime central African\'s lives suck.\r\n\r\nStephen\'s comment that US imigrants had lose their place has relevence, but most Africans have to do this in their place. They have to drop the tribal idea and traditions. For instance applying Hutu and Tutsi logic to the US is like having locals in Colorado kill Californians because they build vacation homes increasing taxes and skewing the zoning.\r\n\r\nRemember that idea of human progress? You know eliminating diseases, feeding everyone, being able to \"live to eat\" instead of \"eating to live\"? Many in the West seem to have forgotten this.\r\n\r\nHow can you help? Support economic force against the despots and if that doesn\'t work supporting regime change. Will good, innocent people die? You bet. But they do die now and have been. The hope is that this will stop and they can get lives.','2003-06-13 15:13:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3580,1,3615,'152.163.253.3','C. Bensing','cabensg@aol.com','','Acts of violence may not be done because of poverty but those in poverty are more likely to\r\ngo along. Example - Germany. There is no excuse\r\nbut show me a civilization without this kind of \r\nimmorality and I\'ll go there.\r\nCB','2003-06-13 17:18:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3581,1,3615,'66.32.188.235','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Who\'s been blathering about poor, downtrodden terrorists?','2003-06-13 18:25:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3582,1,3628,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Trent:\r\n\r\nI looked for the link to Jerry Pournelle site, couldn\'t find it. Went to Chaos Manor, looking for missle testing, etc. but no luck. HELP!!','2003-06-13 18:27:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3583,1,3628,'196.40.69.57','David Gillies','daggillies@yahoo.com','','Charles: Generalfeldmarschall Gerd von Rundstedt.','2003-06-13 19:07:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3584,1,3628,'208.187.72.39','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Phil,\r\n\r\nThis is the relevant section:\r\n\r\n\r\n\"Even assuming a \"Paramount Leader\" could arise to control the factions in the near future, the Chinese still couldn\'t pull off any of these strategies. The PLA Air Force is known as the \"Center of Corruption in the PLA,\" according to James Dunnigan. The independent budget and testing oversight that force test after test of American weapons is lacking in the PLAAF. Tests are expensive and an embarrassing lost of face if they uncover failure. Testing is kept unrealistic, and done as few times as possible, as a result. A good historical analog is the performance of both American torpedoes and the U.S. Naval Ordnance branch early in WW2.\r\n\r\nThen there is the final threat to this scenario: the Chinese version of the \"DOT COM\" brain drain. The foreign joint venture companies are raiding the Chinese military industrial complex for talented engineers and managers.\r\n\r\nThe brain drain of the \"Dot Com\" economy is blamed for several recent U.S. space launch failures. Reports are that the same is happening to the Chinese military in a much more threadbare industrial economy, as its technological culture is \"one deep.\" That is a major drag on any Chinese military buildup and ensures what they build cannot be maintained.\r\n\r\n\"Building missiles\" does not mean, \"building missiles that work.\" This is a fact the Chinese are well aware of in light of their reaction to the possibility of American strategic missile defenses.\r\n\r\nThe wonderful thing about building ballistic missiles rather than a large air force or navy is that you can parade junk and it looks threatening. That is why American ballistic missile defenses are so fundamentally unacceptable to the Chinese. They neutralize the implied political threat those missiles represent, and destroy Chinese illusions of power because they will believe our defenses work while their missiles won\'t. When you combine the brain drain problem with the rampant corruption loose in the Chinese PLAAF, and lack of direction above, the odds approach certainty that any long-range missile built by the Chinese, and launched by the regular military under combat conditions, will fail.\r\n\r\nRemember that even in our checks and balance driven procurement system, the USA did not build reliable SLBM/ICBMs during the Cold War.\r\n\r\nThe Polaris missile had corroded safety interlocks that rendered its nukes inert until the mid-1960s. A Titan 2 missile blew up because someone dropped a tool on a fully fueled missile in the 1980s. Only 3 of 7 \"combat ready\" Minuteman were successfully launched from active silos in early 1980s realistic tests ordered by then Defense Secretary Casper Weinburger - realistic compared to the standard phony tests from Vanderberg AFB silos of carefully reworked Minuteman ICBM\'s. Our MX Peacekeeper ICBM\'s were rendered unusable for half a decade because of a defense contractor defrauding the government with faulty guidance gyros.\r\n\r\nThe kicker here was that the Soviets missile serviceability rates were half what American ballistic missiles were.\r\n\r\nIf we had such problems, and the Soviets\' were far worse, how reliable will Chinese ICBM\'s be? How much of drain on China\'s economy will an attempt to build lots of land-based ICBM\'s be?\"\r\n','2003-06-13 19:11:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3585,1,3630,'216.17.147.99','robi','robi@robisen.com','http://robisen.com','Great post. I think its sad but true that the only way to deal with these organized and state funded terrorist groups is to pound them so hard that they feel the need to come to the peace table. What also needs to happen is Europe and the US just need to stop giving the PLO money until they take steps to stop terrorism instead of in sighting it. They currently give the PLO about ½ a billion dollars a year and none of it seems to be getting to the people.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-13 19:30:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3586,1,3628,'208.187.72.39','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Phil,\r\n\r\nFor the whole article over on Jerry\'s, try this:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/special/sdi1.html','2003-06-13 19:37:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3587,1,3615,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Answer to both posts... read Jarvis\' article.','2003-06-13 21:43:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3588,1,3629,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','Phil,\r\n\r\nWhat do you propose? That Israel mobilize enough soldiers to occupy every street in the West Bank and Gaza? Also, say they do that and kill a bunch of suspected terrorists. Then what? They pull out and the terrorist groups rebuild. \r\n\r\nI do not see how to defeat their will to fight using any method that is morally acceptable to Western Civilization in the early part of the 21st century. We are not going to see the US use WWII tactics let alone see Israel do it. \r\n\r\nWalls and abandonment of the remote settlements of the West Bank and of all settlements in Gaza will put Israel in a position that is easier to explain and to understand. To people who do not follow the twists and turns in detail it is hard to understand the root causes of the conflict. But well defined borders would make the moral position of Israel a lot easier to explain and defend to casual observers.','2003-06-13 22:38:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3589,1,3592,'217.185.237.177','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\ni like to see that you at least accept and agree in my sincere and honest belief in the democratic structures of europe and the EU.\r\n\r\nbut as we see some very general things are to clarify.\r\ni agree on your points about the importence of constitutional structure. so we can talk about the structures of the EU.\r\n\r\nthere are some general things to say that are, perhaps, not clear to everybody:\r\nthe EU exists not as alone-standing institution, but it is the together of all the gouvernments of it´s member states. it is not a gouvernment-like organ, because it only exists in the agreement of the single gouvernments and has no power without these gouvernments. the EU is no gouvernmental organization who controles it\'s members, but is controlled by it´s members.\r\n\r\nall this is expressed by the laws and organs that build the EU.\r\nthe main organs are:\r\n[i do not know the exact english names; the given names may be the real ones or they may not. i just translated the german terms, so i will give these german names in brackets after the englisch translation] \r\n - the european council [Europaeischer Rat]\r\nthis is the meeting of the 15 [in the future 27] heads of state\r\n - the european parliament [Europäisches Pralament]\r\nit is elected by the europeans\r\n - the council of the european union [Rat der EU]\r\nin this council the ministers of each member state are sitting.\r\n - the european commission [Europaeische Kommision]\r\n it´s commissars are chosen by the national gouvernments and elected by the E. parliament.\r\n - the european court of justice [Europaeischer gerichtshof]\r\nthe judges are chosen by the national gouvernments.\r\n\r\nalthough these instituitions indeed lack of direkt democracy, the don\'t lack of legitimacy which is expressed by the national gouvernments. the EU does not a job alone, the EU means all the european gouvernments deciding one thing together. this will be clearer if it\'s organs are explained.\r\n\r\nin council of the EU the national ministers sit together. this means there are many different \'councils of the EU\': the meeting of the ministers of finance, the meeting of the m. of justice, the meeting of the m. of agriculture. the councils can agree on laws, major laws have to be decided together with the european parliament, others, for example those in world-trade policy can be decided directly by the councils. all these laws are products of common national decicens. all of these laws have to be ratified by the national parliaments.\r\n\r\nin the european commision are 20 commisars with one president of the commision. he has to be nominated consensual by all the national gouvernments and the european parliament. the commisars are nominated consensual by all national gouvernments and the commision president.\r\nthe commision has the alone right of initiative, which means it has the right (and the duty) to formulate laws on suggestion by the parliament. the council and the parliament can ask the commission to formulate laws on specific topics.\r\nbut the decicion about these laws have only the council and the parliament.\r\nbesides this the commision is the \'executiveorgan\' of the EU. if it thinks one member transgresses against european law it can accuse it at the european court of justice.\r\n\r\nthe judges at the european court of justice are nominated by the national states. every state has to nominate one of the 15 (in future 27) judges.\r\nthe ecoj decides about the lawfulness of new european laws, it is an administrative tribunal, an labour court who can decide about fundamental social rights of equalrights and fair environments.\r\n\r\nthe european council, the meeting of the heads of state is responsible for the guidelines of the further development of the EU. it also can decide in question where the ministers at the european council couln\'d get an consensual agreement.\r\nthe european council meets four times a year.\r\n\r\nall this is a bit difficult, but follows straight lines:\r\n - the european policy is made together by the national states\r\n - ALL DECISION HAVE TO BE RATIFIED BY THE NATIONAL PARLIAMENTS\r\n - the whole system is based on the political systems of the member states.\r\n - by now all important decisions are consensual. [this will change in some cases when the new members joins us]\r\n - the organs are legitimated by the elections of the european parliament wich has to agree to many of the decisions and can ask for new laws and the national gouvernments who are those who nominate the members of the commision and provide the members of the council.\r\n - the EU is checked by it court of justice.\r\n\r\na \'EU bureaucracy\' does not exist, because the EU is not a gouvernment-like institution who can decide and it´s members and citizens have to follow, but it exists only through these members. the members themselfs decide about their own future.\r\nso what the people decide in their nations and in the elections to the european parliament is what´s decides about their futrue.\r\nthis has to be understood, the EU is not a \'central commitee\' like in the ussr, but exists only through it´s members and the legitimacy through the national gouvernments and the parliament.\r\n\r\nthere are some words to say about the parties in the european parliament. these are not the same oney, sitting in the national parliament. this is understandable, because every member has it´s own parties. the parties in the EU are associations of the national parties which represent the political spectrum. there is a association of social-democratic parties [this would be \'labour\' in britan and SPD in germany], conservative parties, liberal parties (not in the meaning \'liberal\' has in the US, but in the meaning of \'liberal\' has for example in the UK and Australia. in general these parties fight for a freer market economie and less regulations on them (i.e. less labour rights)), or green parties.\r\nthis means the parties in the european parliament rerpesent the different parties throughout the EU, but they differ from them by their name and their nature.\r\nby now i have not enough information to solve the problem of the exclusion of parties who don\'t follow the principles of human rights etc. but i try to find out what\'s this all about and write about it. please bookmark this discussion, there was so much output by now; it would be very bad if all this would be losed to quick.\r\n\r\ni hope i could give some insight in the work of the EU and how it works. for deeper insight i would recomend to buy a book about the structure of the EU, especially to all those who couldn\'t stay from the accusation that the EU is a new ussr. before making such blessing accusations a deeper insight in the structures and the work of the EU should have taken place. doing otherwise is, in my eyes, very unprofessional and does help neither those who want to inform themself about developments inside europe nor the position of europe in the world.\r\nto construct a safe and stable world in the new century both are required.\r\n','2003-06-13 23:08:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3590,1,3629,'12.15.133.9','james','james@iconics.com','','Here\'s an idea.\r\n\r\nDivide Israel into two seperate countries. No Gaza strip, no settlements. Let the Palestinian side rebuild. Make it known that any loss by an agressor will be perminent.\r\n\r\nThis will satisfy the majority of Europe. For some reason Europe sides with Palestinians as a way of appologizing for their colonies. The US lacks such guilt.\r\n\r\nHistoricly speaking, the Palestinians (or other arab countries) will attack Israel. Also historicly speaking, they will lose.','2003-06-13 23:34:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3591,1,3615,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Joe -\r\n\r\nI\'ve actually had to work hard this week, so had little time to blog, but had to add something to this.\r\n\r\nTo solve this problem, I\'ve always argued that you need to do three things simultaneously:\r\n\r\n1) defend against terrorist acts;\r\n2) defeat the terrorists by destroying their infrastructre and denying them the financial and logistical support they need;\r\n3) stop growing them.\r\n\r\nThe reasons they grow are complicated...certainly they have little directly to do with poverty (but much indirectly to do with it), and much to do with softer issues like legitimacy and alienation.\r\n\r\nOne of the problems is that many of the things you can do to improve 1) and 2), in the long run make 3) worse (and vice versa).\r\n\r\nI think the Palestinians and Islamists use each other, but I\'d be very careful about assuming that we\'re dealing with the same problem in either case, or that the solutions are the same in either case.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-13 23:39:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3592,1,3592,'217.185.246.215','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\ni looked up a few things, to clearify the question wheter a party can be expeled from elections from a majority of the parliament (which would be very undemocratic) or not.\r\n\r\nthe things are VERY different than whats presented by JH and others in the beginning of this commentary section [i hope he still reads it].\r\n\r\nwhat i found is, that this is indeed a proposal of the european commision. but it is NOT about the status of european parties NOR is it a part of the draft constituion presented these days.\r\n\r\ni had to find and read the proposal in german, because it is difficult to read, and i am not a lawyer...\r\n\r\nbut one-time reading clearified the situation. this proposal is one about the financial support of the european political parties.\r\nthis is not really a big thing because of:\r\n - by now there is no financial support of the EU for the european parties themselfs (afaik); the parties are financed by the different national parties that represent the european ones.\r\n - the financial support would be not very much money.\r\n\r\nthe proposal has a more symbolic meaning to underline the importance of the european party associations. for different reasons, especially to avoid the financial support of parties that do not get any financial support in their nations because of their anti-democratic sense there is a unbureaucratic mechanism to stop this financial support.\r\nto GET this support the party must be a European party in the meaning of the laws of the EU, it has to have the organs to manage the money and it has to agree on the principles of freedom, democracy, human rights, fundamental freedoms and the rule of law.\r\nalso the support is only given to parties that are in the parliament or reached more than 5% in at least three member states.\r\n\r\nif there are doubts about lawlessness of a political party, and as i wrote above especially to avoid that undemocratic parties who don\'t get any financial support in their nation get financial support from the EU, the parliament can, after some hearings and proofs decide a party does not get this financial support any more.\r\n\r\nthe affectet party would be in the situation as, by now, are all european parties are.\r\n\r\nso they would loose something a party in, for example, the US never has and never had: somer financial support. and, by the way, this is just a PROPOSAL and i don\'t know if it came real or not, and if when. if anybody could find further information here i would be grateful, and i will search agin by myself.\r\n\r\nthis has absolutely NOTHING to do with expelation, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with forbidding a party, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with an \'oligarchy\' or an \'eu-bureaucracy\'.\r\n\r\nthis shows again what i wrote in the comment above: before claiming any fabulous accusations some should inform themselfs and should think about if this accusation is really _possible_ in any way. perhaps one more time the sentence of Justin finds it place: GET REAL.\r\n\r\ni give you some details out of the document who show what it is about.\r\n\r\n\"[the treaty of nice] also recognises that in order to perform the role that the Treaty wishes to assign to them, it will be necessary that they should be at least partially financed from the Community budget.\"\r\n\r\n\"This financing is not intended to replace the autonomous financing of the European parties\"\r\n\r\n\"Accordingly, Article 2 (dealing with the definition of a party) and Article 3 (dealing with registration) lay down that to be registered by the European Parliament [to get financial support] a party must:\r\n- have participated or declared their intention to participate in elections to the European Parliament;\r\n- have clearly defined bodies responsible for financial management;\r\n- ensure that the statute and activities of the European political party respect the basic purposes of the Union with regard to freedom, democracy, human rights, fundamental freedoms and the rule of law.\r\nArticle 4 establishes a procedure for verification of respect for these obligations contained in the third indent above and would enable the European Parliament to deregister a party which no longer satisfies the conditions for registration.\"\r\n\r\n\"Verification\r\n1. At the request of one quarter of its members, representing at least three political groups in the European Parliament, the European Parliament shall verify, by a majority of its members, that the condition laid down in Article 3 (2), second sentence, continues to be satisfied by a European political party. Before carrying out such verification the European Parliament shall hear the representatives of the European political party concerned and ask a committee of independent eminent persons to give an opinion on the subject within a reasonable time.\r\nIf the European Parliament finds, by a majority of its members, that the condition is no longer satisfied, the statute of the European political party in question shall be removed from the register.\"\r\n\r\nfurthermore you have to consider that the affectet party has the possibility to go to the european court of justice and lamentate for their financial support.\r\n\r\nthe proposal can be found here','2003-06-14 00:24:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3593,1,3620,'172.148.86.166','Nikita','nikitawindrider@yahoo.com','http://lifebynikita.blogspot.com','\r\nspeaking of our enemies the Saudis, this is good:\r\n\r\n*The Oil Kingdom - A Royal House of Cards*','2003-06-14 01:11:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3594,1,3591,'172.148.86.166','Nikita','nikitawindrider@yahoo.com','http://lifebynikita.blogspot.com','\r\n*More on Unocal* (scroll down to \"Unocal can stand trial for benefiting from Burma\'s slaving regime\", and check out Forbes reference)\r\n','2003-06-14 01:16:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3595,1,3629,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Randall:\r\n\r\nYou are right. You would still have to build the wall and pull back settlements. But you would have to have two walls, probably about ten miles apart (whatever the range of the Katuska (Katruska??)rockets) and vigorously patrol the space between them. (Could passive and active sensors, backed up by helicopter gunships suffice?)\r\n\r\nWhat would you do with Jerusalem? Would there be other cities in a similar predicament? (I\'m not familiar with Israel\'s geography)\r\n\r\nYou still have to eliminate the will to fight. I\'m not saying carpet bomb the Palestinian territory, but you must seek, find and destroy the enemy (#2 is definitely the tough one) They will find a way to continue sending bombs into Israel. Until the people that think that way are dead (or change their minds-- not impossible, but not likely, either), there can be no peace. However, the wall will make things better.\r\n\r\nLet\'s say the wall is built, and bombings are limited to Jerusalem, and there are only 3-4 per year. Is this acceptable to Israel? Or is one more too many?\r\n\r\nIt will not be an easy fight, but what happens if you give up??\r\n\r\nAt the end of WW II, nearly the entire population of Japan was ready to die gloriously in battle against the American barbarians. Due to their extremely regimented society, once the leadership had lost the will to fight, the population followed their lead, and for the most part, the Japanese people honored the surrender.\r\n\r\nWould this happen in the Palestinian\'s case?? I don\'t know, but we know that it has happened in the past, and could happen again.\r\n\r\nIf Israel takes this route, I think they will attempt to limit true civilian deaths. Will that matter to the rest of the Islamic world?? The $64K question.\r\n\r\nI think we will see the answers to these questions very soon.\r\n\r\nPS- I also agree with your defined borders point in the last graf.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-06-14 03:49:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3596,1,3629,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','One more thing-What happens to the balance of poweer in the Middle East if the Iranian theocracy is toppled in the near future??','2003-06-14 03:52:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3597,1,3630,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Right on, robi. You can a lot of Semtex and AK-47 ammo for $.5 billion.','2003-06-14 03:55:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3598,1,3628,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Thanks, Trent.','2003-06-14 03:57:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3599,1,3628,'218.102.39.131','Conrad','conrad@gweilodiaries.com','http://gweilodiaries.com','My dad is a former airforce fighter pilot and his mantra is that pilot quality is directly proportional to the amount of flight time they receive. Flight training is expensive and everything I\'ve seen indicates that Chinese pilots don\'t spend nearly the time in the air that US (or Taiwanese) pilots do.','2003-06-14 04:31:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3600,1,3596,'24.157.76.229','Biased Observer','settlehouse@-at-rogers.ca','','My wife has been complaining about my \"premature enlightenment\" for years. Hopefully following your weekly Sufi parables will cure my problem.','2003-06-14 05:22:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3601,1,3604,'66.170.161.107','Warren Eckels','weckels@jorsm.com','','\r\nIf it took minutes or hours, it would be done a la Haiti. Do remember that it took us four months to get 300,000 troops to the border of Iraq, three weeks to carry out the battle (in the desert, against a rational and immoralized army supplemented by a poorly trained rabble) and there is still shooting going on.\r\n\r\nThe logistical problems have been covered in some detail. Rules of engagement are an issue, and it is interesting that Congo\'s rulers are not filling the headlines by begging for UN or international assistance in reclaiming their east. \r\n\r\nIt brings up the issue of dereliction of sovereignity under international law. If Congo is being negligent about restoring its sovereignity over those territories, then it can be argued that it has relinquished its right to sovereignity over its East. Any movement of more that $10,000,000/year from government coffers to government officials\' bank accounts would count as dereliction of sovereignity, as would national policy short of a mobilization along the lines of the US Pearl Harbor (which included a 100% tax bracket for income over $1,000,000.) \r\n\r\nAt that point, a conference could be held to redraw Congo\'s borders, or it could become a No Man\'s Land with enclaves guarded by UN or EU troops with robust rules of engagement. \r\n\r\n','2003-06-14 09:41:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3602,1,3604,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Gary: One small difference between Israel today and the Congo today is that Israel has a potent self-defence mechanism in place, while the persecuted Congolese pretty much have nothing.\r\n\r\nI think Jay\'s idea presents the most feasible long term chance of success. After all, who has the greater will to fight, the people that have been on the front lines for years, and have seen their neighbors/family, etc. slaughtered?? Or a national/multinational military force whose members might prefer to be somewhere else?\r\n\r\nThis solution, or a variant, would be the slowest, but which is better:\r\n\r\nFast and fail?\r\n\r\nor\r\n\r\nSlow and succeed?\r\n\r\nThe logistical and transport problems are very troubling. ANY outside force, short of overwhelming manpower and the concommitant massive supply effort, will face a daunting task.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-06-14 13:45:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3603,1,3591,'24.90.108.148','Randy Paul','randinho@yahoo.com','http://beautifulhorizonsblogspot.com','Great link, Nikita.','2003-06-14 15:30:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3604,1,3596,'65.240.61.194','billhedrick','billh@eetc.com','','I\'ve always appreciated Sufi thought, more and more as I grow older and get more into an Ecclesiastis (sp?) state of mind, I find them the best medicine','2003-06-14 15:40:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3605,1,3615,'203.216.52.9','Michael Turner','leap@gol.com','http://www.idiom.com/~turner','This is a silly, splenetic comment (starting with the title: \"There is no reason for terrorism\") on an article that makes a good point: terrorism might have a lot more to do with oppressive government than with poverty per se.\r\n\r\nSo where do those oppressive governments come from? How are they maintained?\r\n\r\nBefore I get into this:\r\n\r\nThere is a difference between a moral defense (an excuse), and an explanation that could lead to solutions. For example, Israeli defense strategists have articulated for a long time the value that Israel has for despotic Middle East governments -- it is easy to make Israel an external focus for their subjects\' hatred, and it saves those governments from becoming the focus themselves. Israeli defense intellectuals don\'t rant about how terrorism is unreasoning (at least not in their private conversations). They know better. The individual suicide bomber may be deracinated, but not the organization delivering the human bomb.\r\n\r\nGetting back to the point about despotism:\r\n\r\nUnfortunately, it\'s been pointed out that a certain kind of national wealth -- primary resources such as, yes, petroleum -- will predispose a new nation toward despotism. Sure, if you\'re Norway, with a long history of democracy and liberty, you\'ve built up the political antibodies: North Sea oil won\'t corrupt you. If you\'re Iraq, or Kuwait, however, forget it: he who has the gold makes the rules, and when you have foreigners with the resource extraction technology coming into somewhat anarchic political situations seeking deals, the tribal chieftain who makes the most arms-enforceable extraction deal makes the rules for the rest of that society, until the resource runs out.\r\n\r\nSo whether a Saudi Arabia or an Iran is rich or poor in per capita terms because of its resource wealth is less important than the fact that there are huge economic blocs -- Western Europe, the U.S., Japan and the Asian Tiger economies -- whose industrial systems are critically dependent on oil, not on palm dates or pistachio nuts, the traditional exports of these regions.\r\n\r\nLet\'s look at where all this can be seen in one piece: Israel and its relations with the Palestinians and its neighbors. During intifada/suicide-bombing fugues, Israel perhaps goes through the rough equivalent (in per capita terms) of a 9/11, cumulatively, every few months or so. A major reason is now pretty easy to see: the United States needs this oil, that oil props up those regional despotisms, those despotisms need to focus their subjects\' rage away from themselves, the Palestinians make a good spearpoint symbol for this purpose, and that symbolic spearpoint has a convenient target that will take it (up to a point): Israel\'s founding ethnicity is one that is historically inured to being a scapegoat race under the protection of a bigger power.\r\n\r\nI\'m all for rejecting simplistic explanations. However, this particular submission seems to reject explanations, period. Even with a pretty good explanation being cited directly. My God ... it\'s just ... just ... inexcusable irrationality ;-)\r\n\r\n-michael turner\r\nleap@gol.com\r\ntokyo','2003-06-14 15:40:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3606,1,3628,'204.128.192.72','BigFire','dyingearth@hotmail.com','','Well now, PLA has no Air Force worth a damm. Their navy is a joke. The Army is famous for their ability to trade man for bullets (their ONLY capability). Unless they decided to nuke Taiwan with terrorist, there is no way in hell they can even get close to Taiwan.','2003-06-14 16:58:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3607,1,3599,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Don\'t forget Melville\'s \"furlongs and furlongs\" description in Moby Dick...his other descriptions were pretty accurate.\r\n\r\nOh, and one thing about Cthulu...wait...what\'s that noise?\r\n\r\n\r\naiiiii....','2003-06-14 17:01:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3608,1,3615,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Michael:\r\n\r\nOne point to add- the oil selling nations may need us to buy their oil as much as we need them to sell it to us. Several years down the road, Russia (and other non-OPEC countries) may become far larger petroleum exporters than OPEC.','2003-06-14 18:46:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3609,1,3599,'66.54.1.38','Kalroy','kalroy@yahoo.com','','I wonder what they taste like?\r\n\r\n\r\nKal','2003-06-14 21:19:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3610,1,3625,'203.145.12.207','Eye Opener','okay@wethai.com','','And please remember that July 9th (Commemorating the Martyrdom in Tabriz of The Holy Gate) has been set as the date for a nation-wide general strike.\r\n\r\nWe can urge unions, NGOs and US Government officials, as well as ordinary Americans, to support the Strike, that it sets the stage for results like those experienced by Milosevic and the Marcoses!\r\n\r\nJuly 9th, 1850 - July 9th, 2003\r\n\r\nOne Eye Opener after another!','2003-06-15 11:25:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3611,1,3385,'203.145.12.207','SharpShooter','okay@knu2.com','','That\'s the spirit! Doesn\'t hurt anybody AND it promotes something good. \r\n\r\nNow how long will it take to investigate those outcast scum and vile misleaders, the Baha\'is?\r\n\r\nWill THEY ever be offered solace and understanding? Or will we continue to scorn them, and pretend that Muhammad and Jesus and Isaiah ALL chose the wrong words when they promised that the Holy One would come in the year (1260AH) 1844?\r\n\r\nBut, hey! They\'ve put that Universal House of Justice atop Mount Carmel, Haifa, Israel... maybe when the Palestinians get into killing Jews, they can take some of those wild-eyed \"Christ has returned! Jesus told the TRUTH!\" idiots with them, eh?','2003-06-15 12:02:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3612,1,3620,'198.108.224.194','markm','mm@xyz.com','','Regrettably, besides not reading or writing arabic, most of us do not know enough about Saudi Arabia to file a really convincing report. E.g., how would I form a fake address to send them to for confiscation of unislamic items? Or how about a list of official\'s addresses???','2003-06-15 17:10:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3613,1,3620,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','I just figured we\'d deluge them with crank emails in english. But, that\'s not a bad idea markm! Will contact Bigwig.','2003-06-15 17:22:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3614,1,3634,'24.28.2.101','Matthew','portablematthew@yahoo.com','http://fearfulsymmetry.blogspot.com/','One would imagine that the PA, if it was serious about statehood, would regard Hamas as a threat to its sovereignty and invite outside parties to \"stabilize\" the Palestinian territories by removing Hamas. This is, of course, wishful thinking.\r\n\r\nThe PA and Hamas were once enemies, and Israel backed Hamas(!) in that fight until declaring the organization illegal in the late 1980s. In the event of the creation of a Palestinian state, no matter what its shape or size, Hamas would again emerge as an enemy of the PA, since Hamas wants to create a Palestinian Iran.\r\n\r\nThe US should make it clear to the PA that Hamas is its enemy NOW, since so long as Hamas continues to target Israelis, there will be no state for the PA to control. Accordingly, one could then judge the seriousness of the PA\'s desire for statehood on the basis how it deals with Hamas.\r\n\r\nBut again, this is wishful thinking.','2003-06-15 21:13:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3615,1,3634,'66.32.178.194','clue','clue@bcke.com','','As I\'ve suggested elsewhere, were the PA actually a rational actor the PA itself would make it clear to the Palestinian people that Hamas is their enemy more than Israel--Hamas can only thrive under occupation, and as long as it knows it can single-handedly continue the occupation and still survive as an organization, it will continue to to so.','2003-06-15 22:02:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3616,1,3634,'66.32.178.194','clue','clue@bcke.com','','As I\'ve suggested elsewhere, were the PA actually a rational actor the PA itself would make it clear to the Palestinian people that Hamas is their enemy more than Israel--Hamas can only thrive under occupation, and as long as it knows it can single-handedly continue the occupation and still survive as an organization, it will continue to to so.','2003-06-15 22:02:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3617,1,3599,'142.167.33.5','Andrew Ian Castel-Dodge','lagwolf@mac.com','http://coldfury.com/Sasha','Well there is a great site for all your Cthulhu needs: Shoggoth.net. It is also the home for my Cthulhu short stories.\r\n','2003-06-15 22:23:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3618,1,3572,'4.43.220.106','gerald garvey','gerald.garvey@cgu.edu','','I used to commute by bicycle about an hour each way in the very PC city of Vancouver. Most drivers were polite and careful. The exceptions to this rule often sported greenpeace stickers.','2003-06-15 22:39:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3619,1,3634,'68.161.61.27','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','I have a lot of links on this topic here.','2003-06-15 23:08:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3620,1,3629,'217.185.246.220','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\nespecially to \'JH\', \'Armed Liberal, \'Joe Katzman\' and \'jeanne a e devoto\':\r\n\r\nplease recognise my last two answers in the \'back in the USSR\' comments: http://windsofchange.net/cgi-bin/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=3592\r\n\r\nalthough the article isn\'t anymore on the first page, the topic matters and the facts matter, too.','2003-06-15 23:36:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3621,1,3633,'66.122.49.120','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','Joe,\r\n\r\nVisit Mt. St. Helens. Mother nature will have her way, regardless of the trifling efforts of man. ','2003-06-16 02:58:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3622,1,3636,'217.185.237.177','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','especially to \'JH\', \'Armed Liberal, \'Joe Katzman\' and \'jeanne a e devoto\':\r\n\r\nplease recognize my last two answers in the \'back in the USSR\' comments: http://windsofchange.net/cgi-bin/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=3592\r\n\r\nalthough the article isn\'t anymore on the first page, the topic matters and the facts matter, too.','2003-06-16 15:57:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3623,1,3636,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Maxim (putting admin. hat on...),\r\n\r\nThis is a blog. Debates last for a limited time, it\'s just the nature of the medium. Posting this kind of message once in another thread is acceptable, but twice is pushing it under the Winds of Change comments policy that comments must be relevant to the post they\'re attached to. Consider this a warning.\r\n\r\nI\'m still not convinced these measures you describe are innocent, and I still believe the EU as envisaged has a serious problem with lack of both accountability and meaningful checks and balances. That may be a worthy topic for another blog post or posts. In the meantime, your comments remain attached to the post that inspired them and may be viewed by the people who read it.','2003-06-16 16:42:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3624,1,3616,'18.157.4.246','Otter','jsing3r@yahoo.com','','It should be noted that Orange County is not a city in California but -- get this -- a county. I hope their accuracy improves from that bit...','2003-06-16 17:33:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3625,1,3638,'12.232.251.223','JK','nn@nnnn.com','','Off-topic but topical this am: what the hell are we doing sending marines to Liberia?\r\n\r\nIf the US is judged to have critical national interests in Liberia then surely there is no rat-hole on the planet insignificant enough not to suck us in.','2003-06-16 17:59:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3626,1,3638,'172.147.45.26','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','Wait. We\'re sending troops to Liberia? I just read about how we aren\'t and probably should send troops there. ','2003-06-16 18:47:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3627,1,3638,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','I think that MEU is kind of stopping by on the way home, in case they have to evacuate American nationals et. al, protect the embassy, or whatever. Not a bad idea to have them do that, gives you troops in the area for immediate deployment, but no-one sitting on the ground so the USA is completely removed from this if it wishes to be.\r\n\r\n\"Winds of War\" is really the place for these kinds of inquiries, and I\'ve placed an update and link to the situation in today\'s briefing.','2003-06-16 19:29:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3628,1,3634,'68.52.70.6','Donald Sensing','thisis@notit.com','http://www.donaldsensing.com/','The PA was founded to be a semi-autonomous government for the Palestinians with an eye to work toward full autonomy and independence. That\'s what everyone thohght, except the leader of the PA, Yasir Arafat, who has never abandoned his goal of eliminating Israel as a Jewish state. \r\n\r\nScott M misses the point altogether - the reason the PA does not have a monopoly on the use of force is that Arafat was never interested in the PA having true state power. In his mind, it was always just a front for continuing the fight against Israel. \r\n\r\nThanks for the link!','2003-06-16 20:03:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3629,1,3635,'66.127.212.5','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Billmon received his 15 minutes of fame for starting a great list of administration quotes about WMD in Iraq, dating from August 2002. There\'s a link off Billmon\'s homepage that has a more updated list (with sources, I believe) but it\'s broken right now.\r\n\r\nRegardless of where you come down on the issue, we should all keep in mind that there\'s a hell of a difference between with the administration did claim were reasons for war, and what now, with benefit of hindsight, it claims would have been good reasons. In other words, watching Humanitarian Concern bubble up to the top of the list from at least third (as Sgt. Stryker points out, it was after WMD and Terrorism) should be an exercise to disturb both hawks and doves alike.','2003-06-16 22:53:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3630,1,3636,'217.185.246.139','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\nit\'s okay, i am sorry. but can you imagine i am not very satisfied to write pages and pages to find out in the end \'the point\' just based on not reading the questioned document, it was based on prejudice and fabulous accusations?\r\nand then realizing, after uncovering this, nobody is interested anymore in the truth? building their own truth seems to be their goal, not objectivity and unbiased view.\r\nsome may be beliefe in ideology, this way or any other, i let them but they should not claim to be interested in unbiased, objective discussions if they are not able to challenge them.\r\n\r\nyou may believe in whatever you want. to your own favour, to those of your country and, if you\'re interested in, to our favour you should try to endeavor an objective debate and view on things. this is not a question of belief, structures and constitutions are understandable, you can inform yourself. and if you are intereste in an unbiased debate you should inform yourself.\r\n\r\nhumans fail, and humans do wrong, so we can see their mistakes even in cases in which they had the best intentions.\r\ni would agree that further direct democracy is needed, some things should be thinked twice of. even if it is not a big think i would agree that indeed the in the proposal descrebed way to exclude a party from these financial support is not the best way [though i don\'t know if this proposal was realized] to realize the principle \'no freedom for the enemies of freedom\', and there are better ways to realize this principle and such an exclusion from financial support.\r\nbut does this mean there is a general problem about checks and balances [that you claim this shows you have\'nt understood what the EU is by now. it is no \'federal gouvernment\' that stands really above it\'s members. did you read my posts?]\r\nand it does absolutely not mean the EU will be a new ussr [also to claim this shows the one hadn\'t understood what the EU is, and how it works].\r\n\r\nsometimes humans need an enemy they can fight to stand tight together and to feel as one, this may or may not be a motivation here. whatever is it\'s spririt. and unbiased debate, and informing about reality and trouth is possible here and would be in favour of the people living in the US, those living in this one world, and last but not least those living in the EU.\r\nto face the problems of the new century a new western alliance is necessary, if there are doubts inside the US about the honesty of europe or if there is lack of knowlege abiout it\'s structure or if there are fabulous accusations and prejudices, these should and could be removed in open and unbiased debate where one hears to the other. i am sorry to write all this HERE, but as you can guess there is need to talk on my side, and there is disappointment about the starving of the debate in the original thread.\r\nso you may or may not reopen the debate in it\'s original thread or you may or may not initiate a new one, but if you decide not to you at least close on channel of american-europe debate and discussion, the one thing that is needed for both to consist in this new world order.\r\n','2003-06-16 23:51:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3631,1,3635,'66.127.212.5','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Billmon\'s searchable WMD quote database is back online. Among my favorites:\r\n\r\n\"One thing is for certain: Saddam Hussein no longer threatens America with weapons of mass destruction.\" President Bush, 5/25/2003, in a statement as logically true as \"I no longer beat my wife\".\r\n\r\n\"How the United States should react if Iraq acquired WMD. \'The first line of defense...should be a clear and classical statement of deterrence—if they do acquire WMD, their weapons will be unusable because any attempt to use them will bring national obliteration.\'\" Condoleeza Rice, \r\nJanuary/February 2000 issue of Foreign Affairs 2/1/2000\r\n\r\n\"We know where they are. They\'re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.\" Donald Rumsfeld, ABC Interview 3/30/2003 \r\n\r\n\"We never believed that we\'d just tumble over weapons of mass destruction in that country.\" Donald Rumsfield, Fox News, 5/4/2003\r\n\r\nAnd don\'t miss the related Democracy In Iraq quotes database','2003-06-16 23:51:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3632,1,3636,'65.95.87.101','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','No, Maxim, it\'s based on differing interpretations of those documents, and sometimes a different way of looking at the world.\r\n\r\nI\'ll be running another post on this subject, and will refer people to your views as part of that. BUT... that too will be a blog post, and so debate will only last a couple of days there too.\r\n\r\nEver think of getting a membership in europundits.blogspot.com, and writing Blog Articles that would have their own unique URLs? The site is led by your cvountryman, Nelson Ascher. That way, your work wouldn\'t be hidden - you could reference articles like mine, and I\'d link back in the course of debate. Indeed, you would have your first post already: repost the comments you were pointing to in this thread, and link to the piece in question.\r\n\r\nThink about it.','2003-06-17 01:44:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3633,1,3644,'24.51.148.245','Kevin Aylward','kaylward@myway.com','http://www.aylwardfamily.com','You pretty much got it all in one post!\r\n\r\nThanks for the link the the Running List of BlogSpot Defectors. The list was started May 26, and as of today I have 93 names listed. We should be at 100 in less than 30 days. \r\n\r\nThanks for the heads up on Borzoiblog.com...\r\n\r\nPS - The trackback pinger is mine too... Just doing my part.','2003-06-17 04:09:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3634,1,3645,'65.95.81.195','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Good story. What I\'d be really interested in, is how you talked the contract officer (CTO) into changing his tack and going along with this approach, instead of trying harder to \"motivate\" these people.','2003-06-17 04:43:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3635,1,3645,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','LOL - I just told him what I\'d been told...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-17 04:52:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3636,1,3645,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Actually, I should take that a bit more seriously, as it\'s a good lesson for we consultants. Having suggested that I go to an outside expert to get direction, he was going to have a very hard time rejecting the advice he\'d asked me to get.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-17 04:58:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3637,1,3644,'68.4.244.239','Xrlq','xrlq@xrlq.com','http://xrlq.com/','Well said. The only thing I have to add is that Dean is ready for a well-deserved breather. Now is the time for the rest of us tech-savvy bloggers to step up to the plate. And when I say \"tech-savvy,\" I mean that loosely; if you managed to install MT for yourself, then you\'ve already established that you\'re \"tech-savvy\" enough to help out a few other people, too. Dammit.','2003-06-17 05:53:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3638,1,3642,'172.128.19.199','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','Am I the only person who finds the South Korean attitude toward the North and Kim Jong Il completely baffling? Yes, he\'s just a nice fluffy Stalinist mass murderer bunny! I too would be ecstatic at a reunified Korea, just not a reunified Stalinist Korea. I don\'t get it. It seems to be wishful thinking completely overpowering reality.','2003-06-17 06:52:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3639,1,3636,'68.161.119.175','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','maxim, people are also more likely to take you seriously if you edit a bit. I tend to scroll past large chunks of text in comment sections - they scream \"rant.\"','2003-06-17 09:40:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3640,1,3642,'203.5.41.210','Andrew','not@applicable.net','http://www.livejournal.com/users/anachronym','Keep in mind that both sides are thoroughly steeped in intense propaganda efforts. Kim Dae Jung\'s \'Sunshine Policy\' was pretty much a direct response to the North\'s unceasing vitriol. Would replying with more of the same improve matters for South Korea? I sorta suspect not. The South Korean leadership know that it\'s just a matter of time before the North collapses in on itself. From their point of view the most important thing is keeping the paranoid regime from feeling cornered and lashing out in the meantime. While it might make us in the States feel safer to take out the North by force of arms, thus removing the threat it represents, it would be practically suicidal for the South to advocate such a course. So they say calming things, and wait.\r\n\r\nIf you ever get the chance (and you\'d probably better hurry) I highly recommend taking a tour of the DMZ (from the southern side). They show you the giant signs with korean propaganda phrases (which are on both sides of the river), and you can listen to the loudspeaker broadcasts (from the north in the evenings, the south during the day). Of course there\'s not really anybody on the northern side to receive the propaganda, except for a few token humans riding bicycles around the fake village. You can scope them out via binoculars from the museum. And they let you go down an interception tunnel into one of the invasion tunnels that the North was caught digging under the DMZ. It\'s sealed up with concrete and two ROK soldiers standing guard 24 hours a day. The one facing the wall has to be bored out of his mind...\r\n\r\n','2003-06-17 10:00:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3641,1,3642,'24.28.2.101','Matthew','portablematthew@yahoo.com','http://fearfulsymmetry.blogspot.com/','One thing that\'s noticeably absent from the Christian Science monitor piece is the increasing popularity of Neomarxist thought among South Korean intellectuals. Every South Korean I\'ve encountered in graduate school has demonstrated a Neomarxist take on world events, and spouts Marxist dogma about inperialism and globalization.\r\n\r\nThis is not to say that South Korean youth have adopted a Stalinist outlook to support North Korea. They\'re quite aware of the wrongs that Kim Jong-il has done, but they are very likely to interpret the situation on the peninsula as a case of the two Koreas being exploited by \"hegemonic powers\" (specifically the US).\r\n\r\nI think \"victimhood\" may be the defining characteristic of many South Koreans these days. For example, if you refer to the Sea of Japan in conversation, many South Koreans will throw a hissyfit and shout \"East Sea! East Sea!\" (Such is the perceived indignity of giving a body of water a Japanese name reference.) A kind of generational amnesia has set in; lacking any knowledge of the Korean War, South Korean youth look eastward to Japan and westward to America and see their \"victimizers.\" Ask them about Kim Jong-il, on the other hand, and they\'ll tell you he\'s made \"mistakes.\"\r\n\r\nOther than the fact that North Korea proliferates for profit, I cannot think of a single reason why US troops should remain on the peninsula anymore. The South Koreans should be left to deal with Kim\'s mistakes on their own.','2003-06-17 10:02:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3642,1,3642,'218.145.25.12','The Marmot','rjkoehler@yahoo.com','http://marmotshole.blogspot.com','As someone who did his graduate work in IR at a major South Korean university, I think I can offer a little bit of insight on Matthew\'s comment. South Korean scholars show a distinct tendency to favor models of international relations, such as Wallerstein\'s world system model and dependency theory, that emphasize Korea\'s \"powerlessness\" in determining its own destiny. There are several reasons for this - perhaps most important among them is that such models play to deep-rooted feelings of \"victimization\" shared by many Koreans. This sense of victimization, in tern, has been utilized to the extreme by both governments on the Korean peninsula - in the South, it has been used both to generate enthusiasm for ambititious national projects (i.e. we have to work for slave wages because we gotta beat the Japs!) and to deflect responsibility away from the government for its own policy mistakes (i.e. it was Bush\'s fault that the Sunshine Policy failed, not Kim Jong-il\'s or Kim Dae-jung\'s). Even among \"pro-American\" Koreans, the depth to which these feelings exhibit themselves can be truly astonishing; when Koreans discuss among themselves the (perceived) need for the US military in South Korea, little is ever mentioned of the historic ties between the two countries, or the common interests between Seoul and Washington. Rather, the arguments run something like this - Korea is a small, weak country, and it has no choice but to rely on the US. If the USFK leaves, then foreign investors will run away and our economy will be destroyed. If the US leaves, then Japan will re-arm, and we\'ll once again be a \"shrimp between two whales.\" Poor, helpless Korea! Of course, the reality is much different - South Korea possesses the world\'s 13th largest economy, one of the world\'s largest (and toughest!) militaries, and is a major foreign investor abroad. Still, the feelings are there, buttressed by an education system that indoctrinates \"victimization\" from a very early age.\r\n\r\nIt should be pointed out, however, that in the Korean context, there are very few \"Marxists,\" per say. \"Progressive\" Korean students simply use the language of Marxism to cover an intellectual system that, at its base, is really quite reactionary and disturbingly similar to the racial theories expoused by Japanese militarists during the 1930s. Despite recourse to such terms as imperialism and the \"masses,\" the Korean \"Left\"\'s beef with capitalism, globalization, and the US has nothing to do with its concern for the international working class, and everything to do with globalization\'s \"assault\" on Korea\'s (supposedly uniquely unique) cultural identity. The work \"minjok,\" which most closely corresponds to the German word \"volk,\" is one of the most oft-used in Korean radical student discourse (and in North Korea, as well). It\'s used all the time; in fact, one almost never hears referrences made to \"class struggle.\" \"Struggle,\" when the term is used, is almost always used in a racial context. The Japanese have the same work - minjoku - except that in the Japanese context, the word carries strong connotations of the 1930s, and only re-entered common use in Japan after Nakasone\'s prime ministership in the 1980s (the term was actually banned by American occupational authorities).','2003-06-17 11:23:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3643,1,3645,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','A.L:\r\n\r\nI think I have a slightly better answer to Joe\'s Q-After your explanation, CTO realized, as you did during your \"class\", that your answer was correct.\r\n\r\nBTW, this is very close to the regular MBA methods.\r\n\r\nPhil Winsor CPA, MBA','2003-06-17 12:01:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3644,1,3644,'66.129.135.82','xavier','buscaraons@netscape.net','http://www.buscaraons.blogspot.com','Hi all:\r\nI\'m thinking about moving off Blogspot but it\'s the price tag that\'s a bit stiff.15$U.S./month is still a bit steep for me.\r\nBesides, I\'m somewhat intimidated by installation and tweaking of Moveable type. I\'m somewhat tech literate but Moveable type strikes as quite formidable :)\r\n\r\nxavier \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-06-17 14:34:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3645,1,3644,'65.95.81.195','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Xavier, you need to join DeanEsmay.com\'s Blogspot Jihad. \r\n\r\nUSD $20 for conversion to MT, then $5/month for hosting, plus a domain name of course but domainsatcost.ca makes that CDN $15.','2003-06-17 15:52:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3646,1,3627,'157.29.192.85','lombezzi','mimmo.lombezzi@mediaset.it','','I\'m an italian journalist working for Italia Uno (national channel)\r\nI\'m writing to your Organisation because we would like to \r\nbroadcast in our tv news some letters or e-mails written by Iranian\r\nstudents concerning the present crisis in Iran and the students\' s\r\nprotest going on in Teheran.\r\n \r\nbest wishes \r\n \r\nmimmo lombezzi \r\n\r\n ','2003-06-17 15:55:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3647,1,3645,'63.166.226.83','Stephen','stephen@shadowshow.net','http://slapthemonkey.blogspot.com','My dad was an army drill sergeant, though he was out by the time I came along. There\'s the old adage, however, that you can take the boy out of the army, but you can\'t take the army out of the boy. When my brother and I came along and got old enough he got us into Boy Scouts and eventually became the scoutmaster. Nothing quite prepares a group of 4 foot tall, 10 year old boys for the motivational and management methods of a seasoned army drill instructor. He had much the same take on things and it\'s something that, for the most part, stuck. Granted, I don\'t always apply them in my own management style, and kick myself when I slip up, but the philosophy is sound, whether it be with software development teams, special forces or snot nosed brats in the Sierras freezing their asses off.','2003-06-17 19:59:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3648,1,3636,'217.185.237.25','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\nthanks for your help and your suggestions joe, i think i can accept the rules of blogscene, but in this special case i was very annoyed about my pagelong writings without an answer at the point of the discussion where some details where at lenght clearified.\r\n\r\ni like your suggestions relating a own blog, but i think i lack of time and knowledge to make a real thing. participating in another blog sounds good, but i couldn\'t see the \'europundits\' where bloggers who would need further support.\r\nyou have to consider i am a greenhorn in blogging scene, i have absolutely no idea about their rules, their working and the scene.\r\ni was reading some blogs, right-wing, left-wing, news-boards [especially dailyKos, winds of change, daniel drezner and agonist.net made an excellent job in my eyes], since the war and enjoyed there texts and debates, their different points of view.\r\nthey gave me insight in america\'s point of view on daily political affairs and much further information and stimulation.\r\nso at least i have to say thank you to all of you otu there, you\'re doing a gorgeous job and i like it every day (even if i would contradict on some opinions ;).\r\n\r\n','2003-06-17 22:03:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3649,1,3186,'152.5.96.253','Mark Bahner','mark.bahner@sbcglobal.net','','\"Welcome! You\'re another fine example of why Iran is not in the axis of evil.\"\r\n\r\nI can\'t absolutely know what--if anything ;-)-- is in G.W. Bush\'s mind, but I think you (and many others) completely misunderstand Bush\'s \"Axis of Evil\" comment.\r\n\r\nIt seems pretty clear to me that he was referring to the *governments* of Iraq, Iran, and North Korea...not the *people* of those countries.\r\n\r\nOne would hope that it\'s not at all controversial to identify the *governments* of Iraq (under Saddam Hussein), Iran, and North Korea as \"evil.\"\r\n\r\n','2003-06-17 22:16:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3650,1,3613,'152.5.96.253','Mark Bahner','mark.bahner@sbcglobal.net','','\"And finally, quoting Washington and Jefferson as somehow promoting empire-building -- what a sad display of intellectual dishonesty.\"\r\n\r\nOr ignorance. Both Washington and Jefferson made pretty clear their disdain for people who wanted to meddle in the affairs of other countries.\r\n\r\nFrom Washington\'s Farewell Address:\r\n\r\n\"Observe good faith and justice toward all nations. Cultivate peace and harmony with all. Religion and morality enjoin this conduct. And can it be that good policy does not equally enjoin it.\" Above all, \"The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is, in extending our commercial relations to have with them as little political connection as possible.\" \r\n','2003-06-17 22:54:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3651,1,3201,'194.109.194.175','Hiram','hiram@mac.com','http://hiram.nl/ipsedixit/English/Politics/','War will not liberate the Iranian people. The Iraqis now know this, too. They see it with their own eyes. The US and UK forces are occupying their country because it is in the interest of the rich nation states to do so. Did you not notice that UK and US soldiers never lifted a finger when looting took place in Baghdad -- except when the Ministry of Oil was attacked. That they defended.\r\n\r\nPlease wake up and realize that it is only the ordinary people of Iran (and Iraq, and every other country in the world) that can liberate themselves. Why exchange one tyrant for another, who just uses sweeter words (like \"liberty\" and \"democracy\") to voice his commands?\r\n\r\nDemocracy according to Bush means executing minors and mentally handicapped people, attacking other countries without a UN mandate, and tolerating that over half the US population has no medical insurance (causing the child mortality rate to be at third world levels in parts of the US). \r\n\r\nDemocracy according to Marx, Lenin, Trotsky and their comrades means that the working class, that is, the vast majority of the people, get to decide what happens. It\'s as easy as that, and there can be no more civilized and \"libertarian\" form of government than that.\r\n\r\nRead some: http://www.marxists.org/archive.\r\n\r\nAnd if you disagree with all this, please ask yourself why capitalism and liberal democracy have been unable, for over 150 years, to provide even a small majority of the world\'s population with elementary things like food, shelter, schools, medical care and possibilities for personal development.\r\n\r\nI could go on much longer. But hey, it\'s midnight here in Holland.','2003-06-17 23:03:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3652,1,3627,'152.5.96.253','Mark Bahner','mark.bahner@sbcglobal.net','','\"so I believe that they didn\'t choose a right way & what they did last years & what they have planed to do this year, ( a big & crowded, but without these kinds of violence) is more intellectual...\"\r\n\r\nI agree. It hurts the cause of the protestors when they break things, or shout, \"Death to...\"\r\n\r\n','2003-06-17 23:09:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3653,1,3201,'152.5.96.253','Mark Bahner','mark.bahner@sbcglobal.net','','\"Please wake up and realize that it is only the ordinary people of Iran (and Iraq, and every other country in the world) that can liberate themselves. Why exchange one tyrant for another, who just uses sweeter words (like \"liberty\" and \"democracy\") to voice his commands?\"\r\n\r\nSo you think the people of Iraq aren\'t liberated? Do they not yet have freedom of speech? Freedom of the press? Freedom of religion? Freedom to peacefully assemble? \r\n\r\nDid they have any of those freedoms under Saddam Hussein?\r\n\r\n\"Democracy according to Marx, Lenin, Trotsky and their comrades means that the working class, that is, the vast majority of the people, get to decide what happens. It\'s as easy as that, and there can be no more civilized and \"libertarian\" form of government than that.\"\r\n\r\nWhoa! Wait a second! I *am* a Libertarian! I can absolutely guarantee you that Marxism has absolutely NOTHING to do with libertarianism!\r\n\r\nhttp://www.lp.org/organization/history/\r\n\r\n\"Libertarians believe the answer to America\'s political problems is the same commitment to freedom that earned America its greatness: a free-market economy and the abundance and prosperity it brings; a dedication to civil liberties and personal freedom that marks this country above all others; and a foreign policy of non-intervention, peace, and free trade as prescribed by America\'s founders.\"\r\n\r\n\"And if you disagree with all this, please ask yourself why capitalism and liberal democracy have been unable, for over 150 years, to provide even a small majority of the world\'s population with elementary things like food, shelter, schools, medical care and possibilities for personal development.\"\r\n\r\nCapitalism and liberal democracy have done more than *any other system* (especially Marxism!) to provide the world\'s populations with \"elementary things like food, shelter, schools, medical care and possibilities for personal development.\"\r\n\r\nMark Bahner (Libertarian)\r\n','2003-06-18 00:23:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3654,1,3649,'68.166.85.232','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://www.overpressure.com','The Left hates it when the Right is right.\r\n\r\nThey still defend the Rosenbergs.\r\n\r\nDamn Commie spies.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-18 02:04:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3655,1,3635,'62.252.96.6','David Newton','davidp_newton@hotmail.com','','Actually, sending the GSDF to Iraq would not be the first deployment of Japanese troops overseas since 1945. That happened almost 10 years ago when the Japanese sent peacekeeping troops to Cambodia. They have gone beyond that since then, as a JMSDF taskforce has been in the Indian Ocean since October 2001 providing fuel for ships engaged in martime interdiction operations.','2003-06-18 04:09:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3656,1,3649,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','\"The Left hates it when the Right is right.\"...\r\n\r\n...as opposed to the Right, which is forthright and magnanimous when proved wrong...not...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-18 05:59:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3657,1,3647,'65.95.81.195','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Hmmm, I think part of the problem is failure to see the glorious opportunity inherent in all this. Oddly, the more I read about this the happier I\'m becoming, because I\'m starting to see an interesting parallel. The things these people described in their symposium sounded very familiar. I wonder if history will repeat itself... but this is all the subject for a future blog post of my own.\r\n\r\nMeanwhile, I think it\'s safe to say that the French government, and a large section of its citizenry too, have indeed become \"the ally of tyranny everywhere.\" Iraq, Mugabe, China, Iran, etc... it\'s pretty close to an inversely perfect record. Even the opportunity they\'re presenting us for the future should not restrain us from proper criticism in the present.','2003-06-18 06:58:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3658,1,3649,'65.95.81.195','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Very, very few people are magnanimous when proved wrong. That requires people whose conditioning to what Jacob Bronowski called \"The Habit of Truth\" and its corresponding social values is stronger than their ego or other human instincts. Such individuals are to be cherished, regardless of their specific political positions.\r\n\r\nHaving said that, social movements do have identifiable pathologies and blind spots. That the Rosenbergs could still be defended and lionized after the revelations Celeste describes is so obviously pathological that it becomes dark farce.\r\n\r\nAs Mona Charen and others have noted in chilling detail, a free pass for Marxist totalitarians has been, and remains, a major blind spot of the Left. Post-modernist leftism (neomarxism) simply extended and legitimzed that framework in other contexts such as Islamists, Third World racists, etc.\r\n\r\nSo, to put it in more personal terms, the dynamic Blaster describes is indeed part of the \"war on bad philosophy\" you talk about.','2003-06-18 07:15:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3659,1,3652,'80.228.37.89','Scott Hanon','shanson@shcon.com','http://www.papascott.de/','You shouldn\'t make the 404 page too interesting. People might start linking to it instead of your posts.','2003-06-18 07:21:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3660,1,3652,'65.95.81.195','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Go ahead...','2003-06-18 07:31:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3661,1,3647,'217.2.107.236','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\nit is not my job to change your views on france, which i won\'t even try to do.\r\nbut at least i can rectify a few of your wrong facts:\r\n\"I read a number of articles where France was actively assisting Hamas, a genocidal terrorist group\"\r\n\r\nwhat the situation was: on an EU summit on Monday britan and fracne chlashed about whether the political arm of the hamas should be blacklistet or not.\r\nthis has so far nothing to do with their opinions and actions on the military arm of the hamas, which is blacklistet throughout europe and the US.\r\nth problem with blacklisting their political arm is especially their importance as a political player in the middle-east, which does mean there is no way to find a peaceful solution without negotiating with them.\r\nand as you know even israel doesn\'t blacklist their political arm, but nogatiate with them on cease-fire. [so is israel sponsoring islamist terror? i dont think you would say this, or?].\r\nthere is nothing to palliate about hams, but it is indeed more than only a terrorist organizations, things are in reality much more complicated then they sound from far away.\r\nwhen hamas is the only \'humaitatrian\' organization working in the fugitive camps then the things are not as simple as destroying them would be succesful, because there they can agitate their members and supporters. i myself dont think this is a good reality, but this doesn change it. changeing it would mean to send humanitarion aid to the fugitive camps with other organizations, but it is obvious this is complicated too. [if the agitation basis is there already, you only would sponser terrorist by feeding them].\r\nwhatever is a solution i future, cracking down the whole hamas is no option by now, which is why israel does peace-talks with them. this does not mean israel sponsors islamist terror, but is searching for a solution that fits reality.\r\n\r\nbesides this, if the \'opinionjournal\' even talks about bush who \"marginalize[s] Islamist terrorists\" i myself wouldn\'t think this can be called unbiased journalism.\r\n\r\nand to the iranian islamist group: the US themself blacklistet them as terrorist. now, when the groups terror should be ended you call for pardon for them?\r\nso what does it mean if a group is on your terrorist list? there are \'good\' terrorists and \'bad\' terrorists?\r\nthe US themself fightet this militant group throughout iraq in the days of war and beyond, but cracking down their financing basis [1,3 million dollar in cash where found in their headquater] means \'supporting tyrrany\'?\r\n\r\nperhaps by now you should think of splitting your list of terroristic groups in those who should be supportet and those who should be cracked down. so its easier for you\'re allies to fulfill your wishes...\r\n\r\n','2003-06-18 07:51:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3662,1,3650,'209.101.51.33','Dan Simon','dummy@dummy.com','http://icouldbewrong.blogspot.com','As I pointed out in my blog posting, these exact same arguments were raised against Sharon\'s original isolation of Arafat during Operation Defensive Shield. Declaring Arafat \"irrelevant\", it was claimed at the time, would only salvage his declining credibility among both the Palestinians and the international community. In fact, Sharon\'s aggressive decision had the opposite effect, further eroding Arafat\'s stature over time, and ultimately leading to his coerced appointment of a prime minister with a more moderate reputation.\r\n\r\nAs with Arafat, why not also with Rantisi? ','2003-06-18 08:11:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3663,1,3647,'65.95.81.195','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','If the Iranian dissident group was MKO, Trent, France has a legitimate case. \r\n\r\nRe: Hamas, France has no case. Hamas does work in the refugee camps? Well, Hitler lowered the unemployment rate and Osama Bin Laden built roads. So freaking what? There is NO complexity involved, these people are openly genocidal and there is no separation in practice between any part of Hamas and its military arm. One either recognizes naked evil or one does not. France, whose record of winking at terrorism aimed at Jews is long and distinguished, just added to that shameful history.\r\n\r\nAnd yes, there is an alternative to negotiating with Hamas. Just as there\'s an alternative to negotiating with al-Qaeda. Unlike negotiation, the alternative works.\r\n\r\nThrow in the rest of France\'s actions lately, including open efforts to prop up Saddam Hussein, and it\'s hard to quarrel with Trent\'s assessment (and that of more than a couple French observers) that there\'s an unhealthy climate in France. I will in fairness point to Phil Carter\'s blog INTEL DUMP, where he notes some constructive good being done in Afghanistan. Everything else I\'ve seen has been a mess at best, enabling evil at worst.\r\n\r\nAs Armed Liberal has noted before in these pages, there is a \"war on bad philosophy\" whose outcome will be determinative in the long run. Right now, France is on the other side of that war.','2003-06-18 08:44:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3664,1,3647,'212.234.231.51','GGonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','I agree that France has become a willing ally of tyranny, but I tend to agree with Maxim that the examples you give here are not particularly apt. The Iranian militant mujaheedan who are the subject of the current crackdown are an extreme left-wing militant group with no popular base in Iran and little if any relationship to the current pro-democracy activists there. There may have been independent reason to reign them in. Maxim also corrects the record on Hamas, though I remain suspicious of French intentions on this score notwithstanding.\r\n\r\nYou seem to imply that France is aligning with its domestic Arabs out of multiculturalist leftist sympathies (I am referring more to Part I of your series here). Nothing could be further from the truth: the French are hardly multiculturalists, they are exclusionary. They hate their local Arabs far more than they hate their Jews, and the growth of militant Islamists in France is not a result of over-inclusiveness, but rather of exclusion.\r\n\r\nThe French relationship with Arab and Islamic tyranny abroad stems from a different tradition: a nationalist and mercantalist foreign policy that has no concern for human rights or collective security. In the last two months, de Villepin\'s itinerary has basically been limited to Libya, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iran and the Palestinian Authority. \r\n\r\nThis is simply a continuation of French Iraq policy as applied to the rest of the Arab world. The French tend to dig around in the sewers abandoned by the Americans (Jordan being somewhat of an exception here). The advantage to them is twofold: these countries have oil money and represent huge markets for French business: in particular, infrastructure projects (construction, utilities, highways, etc.). Second, they allow triangulation vis-à-vis the U.S. to enhance their stature (and ego).\r\n\r\nThis policy also explains in large part French support for the Palestinians and official tolerance or downplaying of the resurgence of anti-semitism at home. France abandoned Israel after Suez and the six-day war simply because the Arabs supply a crucial commodity and represent far more profitable markets for French exports. Israel-bashing is a key element of this policy and, given the public consensus on the primacy of national strategic and commercial interests in foreign policy, this attitude is present throughout official circles and in throughout the political classes.\r\n\r\nThese policies have virtually universal support among the populace across the political spectrum, from left to right. There are two attitudes: one is complete ignorance or at best indifference. The other holds that everybody does the same thing: the tu quoque argument. This explains in part their reflexive anti-Americanism, which imputes the vilest of motives to any U.S. intervention abroad. It\'s called projection.\r\n\r\nG Gonzalez, Paris, France','2003-06-18 08:54:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3665,1,3647,'80.13.121.252','GGonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Addendum to above:\r\n\r\nI should nevertheless add for the removal of doubt that the recent French actions on Hamas and the Iranian mujaheedan do reflect indirectly France\'s policy of allying itself with tyrannical regimes, if not for the reasons given. If the policy may be sound, the timing is entirely suspect. In particular, the mujaheedan group has used France as a safe harbor for over 20 years. The decision to crackdown on them now almost certainly is a signal to the Iranian regime that France is on the side of the regime in its spat with Washington. ','2003-06-18 10:24:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3666,1,3647,'193.60.129.71','John Farren','farren_john@hotmail.com','','G Gonzalez analysis is very plausible: in terms of cynical realism, Villepin = Kissinger exp10\r\n\r\nBut there are other factors too. After all, this realism is not very realistic, in the long term. \r\n\r\nIt requires ignoring the costs of antagonising the USA, exaggerating the benefits of aligning with economically flatlining African and Middle Eastern kleptocracies, and overlooking the dangers of \"rogue\" states, WMD, and international terrorism.\r\n \r\nI suspect that postmodernist philosophy, evading the questions posed by the failure of Soviet Communism, erodes serious analysis among French opinion formers.\r\nInstead there is a mixture of frivolity, cynicism, populist \"pacifism\", gestures to activists, and the sort of America-baiting that pleases former Gaullists, and old Communists and New Left radicals.\r\n\r\nThere was an interesting article by Philip Delves Broughton in the Telegraph touching on this:\r\n\r\n\"Politics, they feel, is just politics. Cynicism about politics ... in France ... is terminal. Politics is trivial, ephemeral. Poetry is Prometheus\'s stolen gift to man. As a result, the gap between rhetoric and reality here is ocean-wide.\"\r\n\r\nI\'m not certain if Villepin\'s refusal to break links with Hamas is necessarily malign, however. (I certainly think it\'s wrongheaded, morally obtuse and above all a mistake). \r\nBeing very charitable: France may still hope Hamas will sign up for a ceasefire, or split on the issue, and/or show Hamas rejection as totally unreasonable to the wider Arab. As I said, if they do think this, they are misleading themselves. \r\n(Alternatively, they may just be being a bunch of mendacious frogs :)','2003-06-18 12:31:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3667,1,3414,'134.219.102.209','Yorks Ranter','a.r.harrowell@rhul.ac.uk','http://yorkshire-ranter.blogspot.com','Which is, of course, why the Sea Harrier has been such an (unexpected) success in air to air. You can\'t do better in changing energy state than actually going backwards. No wonder the mad USMC liked it. No wonder the mad Fleet Air Arm liked it. No wonder, then, that the Govt have decided to get rid of the FA2s before the new carriers and the F35 come into service....','2003-06-18 13:28:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3668,1,3647,'63.189.1.76','Bart Hall (Kansas, USA)','bart.hall@prairiestarfarm.com','','France\'s anti-americainisme runs very long and deep. Clemenceau spat in Woodrow Wilson\'s face in 1919. Ever since they figured out we were surpassing the UK in world leadership they\'ve been working against us.\r\n\r\nAfter Pearl Harbor the first nation we attacked was Morocco, and we had to fight ... France ... to get in there. [I can almost hear the left if that had happened today: Morocco hasn\'t attacked us, they\'re no threat, it\'s about oil, etc ad nauseum]\r\n\r\nTalk to the pros in counter-espionage. I think you\'ll find that France is considered one of our top espionage problems.\r\n\r\nFrench anti-semitism runs even longer and deeper than its anti-americanism, and it is endemic to the culture. In 1987, in Quebec, there were two blatantly anti-semitic \'jokes\' printed on placemats in restaurants along the main route between Motreal and Quebec City.\r\n\r\nAs late as 1991, when I moved out of Quebec permanently it was still a *common* occurence to hear educated people referring to \"ces sales juifs\" --those dirty jews-- in what they thought was \'polite\' conversation.\r\n\r\nThe intersection of anti-americanism and anti-semitism is Israel. No further explanation needed.','2003-06-18 14:31:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3669,1,3650,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Because Arafat is one of the key causes of the conflict, and has been so for his entire career. I have nevetr believed that Arafat was interested in a genuine state or peace with Israel; he\'s one of the kleptocrats, and the resource he loots is the suffering of the Palestinian people, which he mines for billions a year in support.\r\n\r\nAnd, more important, because when Arafat was being isolated, the Talib and Saddam Hussein were in power and the U.S. was a \'toothless giant\'.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-18 14:32:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3670,1,3649,'68.166.82.92','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://www.overpressure.com','When has the Left been right?\r\n\r\nHeh.','2003-06-18 14:46:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3671,1,3583,'67.31.22.123','Jonathan Edelstein','jonathan9@earthlink.net','http://headheeb.blogspot.com','Mr. Shahbandar now has a blog.\r\n','2003-06-18 15:16:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3672,1,3649,'68.166.82.92','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://www.overpressure.com','Less flippant.\r\n\r\nActually, let us examine this objectively. After being proven wrong, does the Right really cling to old lies? \r\n\r\nFor example, Republicans opposed US entry into WWII. FDR was right - the US needed to enter into that war. Are there any Republicans today sitting around and moaning about how Hitler really wasn\'t a threat? Okay, Buchanan, but he isn\'t a Republican anymore, but he is still a crank.\r\n\r\nMaybe Nixon. Are there any on the Right sitting around saying that Nixon really wasn\'t crooked? \r\n\r\nI would also use civil rights for blacks in the US, but that it was Republicans, or the Right, that was most opposed to them is a myth.\r\n\r\nThe Left just can\'t let go. The Rosenbergs did give atomic secrets to the Soviets. Alger Hiss was a Soviet spy. There were Communists in the State Department. \r\n\r\nAnd they still argue that these things were untrue even today.\r\n\r\nAnd they use those lies to try to deligitimize actions today - i.e., calling the war on terror McCarthyism. \r\n ','2003-06-18 15:23:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3673,1,3649,'152.163.190.1','Celeste','celeste@windsofchange.net','http://permagringirl.blogspot.com','The right still has its own blind spots, and pockets of the right do continue to cling to some silly notions:\r\n- Nixon actually is a good example. There are still people out there who try to justify his behavior with an \'everyone was doing it, he just got caught\' defense. Apologists for Nixon, however, don\'t sink to the level of disrespect I have for apologists for Stalin.\r\n- As we saw with Trent Lott, there are still folks in the Republican party who can\'t see why people get so upset over the issue of segregation. This doesn\'t detract from the fact that it was the democratic party that was so strongly opposed to the civil rights act, but groups on both end of the spectrum have some blind spots regarding their party\'s record on civil rights.\r\n\r\nAgain, however, nostalgia for segregation doesn\'t spike my outrage meter nearly as well as support for murdering dictators, or traitors.','2003-06-18 16:12:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3674,1,3652,'66.222.35.136','Ron McCabe','rpmccabe@tds.net','','I have been wanting to make some comments, but haven\'t really been able to define what I would like to change. Since your change near the end of the war, it seems to be more difficult to locate information (at least to my dyslexic brain). I wish you well in the new changes - I read WoC at least twice a day.\r\n\r\nDyslexics of the world UNTIE!\r\n\r\n','2003-06-18 16:58:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3675,1,3647,'212.234.231.51','GGonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','John Farren does a good job describing French cynicism, hypocrisy and problems with reality as additional background. Much of the present social, cultural and, I would say, moral crisis in France arises precisely from the increasingly apparent unsustainability of the rhetoric / reality gap when a society in decline discovers its inability to adapt.\r\n\r\nBart Hall also points out the deep historical roots of anti-semitism in France. The dependency on oil and Arab markets and use of Middle East regimes for geo-strategic leverage have resurrected that ignoble tradition and given birth to new strains of antisemitism as well.','2003-06-18 17:05:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3676,1,3649,'68.166.82.92','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://www.overpressure.com','Celeste, you point out a major difference between the Left and Right. \r\n\r\nYou note on Nixon there are still those who argue the \"everybody does it\" defense of Nixon. \r\n\r\nSure. But they don\'t try to say he wasn\'t crooked. And you surely won\'t gather 5,000 in a park to proclaim that.\r\n\r\nIf some prominent person of the right tried to make the case that Nixon wasn\'t crooked in the Watergate thing, he\'d be laughed off of the national stage. Not cheered by adoring throngs. \r\n\r\nAnd look what happened to Lott. He was criticized from the Right - and made to give up his leadership post. Note there has been no similar reaction to say, Senator Byrd and his use of the n-word, for example. \r\n\r\nSeriously, the Left does hate it when the Right is right - hates it so much that it will deny the truth way past the point of deniability. The Right doesn\'t have similar attachments to being wrong. \r\n\r\n','2003-06-18 17:47:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3677,1,3652,'68.63.70.99','CBK','cbk@comcast.net','','Love your blog.\r\n\r\nDid notice today that when I click the \"continue reading\" link, the window opens up beyond the span of my window. I must scroll right to left and back to read.\r\n\r\nCould be my browser - Safari on Mac - but never had that problem before on your blog.\r\n\r\nCBK','2003-06-18 18:44:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3678,1,3647,'148.129.74.42','Rick Reed','reedrick@aol.com','','Zut alors! So Pierre Laval wasn\'t so very far off base, after all.\r\n\r\nCordially...','2003-06-18 20:05:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3679,1,3647,'66.122.49.120','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','Neither the French nor the Islamofascists are recent enemies of the United States. The first six frigates built by the U. S. were to suppress the piracy and enslavement of Americans by Algerians, \"millions for defence but not one cent for tribute\", but found their first use in an all but declared naval war with France from 1798 to 1801. ','2003-06-18 20:41:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3680,1,3647,'67.114.136.220','Cy Kologis','cykilogis@yahoo.com','','How do we know the following statement is true:\r\n\r\nThe sickness of France has been largely created by people who want only one thing: to destroy freedom and to destroy Western civilization. \r\n\r\nOne indication is this: \r\n\r\n1) It is certainly true that the only way to get two groups to cooperate when normally they would be at odds with one another, is to present them with a common enemy. \r\n\r\n2) The Left and Islamism are natural enemies: the former is a philosophy informed mostly by secularists and materialists while the latter worldview is informed by a rigid, legalistic (in my opinion a worldly, widely-held, and probably quite orthodox) interpretation of Islam.\r\n\r\n3) The Left and Islamism are cooperating to an unprecidented degree - with the academic Left touting Islam as a religion of Peace, and Islamists coopting groups like A.N.S.W.E.R to further their cause.\r\n\r\n4) The common enemy of both the Left and Islamism is Western Civilization, which both view as inherently disordered, and in need of radical reform. (By the way, Western Civilization is defined broadly here, to include not only the political tradition of the West, but also its philosophical and religious tradition.)\r\n\r\nFrom this it is possible to conclude that the Left and Islamism are working together to tear down Western Civilization. France, dominated politically by the Left with a large consituency sympathetic to Islamism, is caught up in the dynamics of this struggle against Western Civilization.\r\n\r\n-- Cy','2003-06-18 20:43:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3681,1,3647,'129.186.232.17','W. Smith','wsmith@autopr0n.com','http://www.livejournal.com/~autopr0n','I did a little research into the guys the french busted on my blog \r\n\r\nApperantly they are seeking a mix of Marxism and Islam, and call themselves the \"people\'s mujahadeen\". They were \"disarmed\" in Iraq by the US government after the war\r\n\r\nThese people also supported the Mullas orgionaly after the revolution, and opposed the US backed Shah. Who knows if these are people we really want to deal with? \r\n\r\nAnd this was obviously bad timing on France\'s part.\r\n\r\n----\r\n\r\nAs far as Hamas goes, I don\'t know. In the past I would have said we should have at least tried to engage them in negotiations. After all, they are the ones who control a lot of the anti-isreal terrorism. Their actions in the past couple weeks though have really shown them to be pretty evil. I mean, they didn\'t even wait for the talks to break down. It could very well be that they simply want the violence to continue in order to make violence the only solution.','2003-06-18 20:45:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3682,1,3647,'66.214.13.141','Paul Siegel','paul@learningfountain.com','http://www.learningfountain.com','I think all of you are getting carried away. Just because France did not agree with the U.S. about going to war with Iraq, does not mean it is not a democracy, and that it is trying to help tyrants.\r\n\r\nOf course, you can always find news items to support your thesis. But every news item may have varying interpretations. I\'m not here trying to be an apologist for France. I\'m an American and proud of it. But I never say that America is always right and France always wrong.\r\n\r\nLet\'s be careful what we accuse others of. We in the U.S. have supported dictators in Africa, the Middle East, South America and in other places. One exampe: We helped build the Taliban that we later had to fight in Afghanistan. Does this make us a proponent of tyranny? \r\n\r\nLike U.S., France is a democracy. Like U.S., France sometimes does bad things. Like U.S., there are people in France who think their country is always right and other countries are always wrong. \r\n\r\nIt is this tit for tat business that should be stopped on both sides. Ths is the only way we both could fight terrorism, our mutual enemy.\r\n ','2003-06-18 20:50:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3683,1,3650,'68.85.101.77','Alene Berk','lene1@myrealbox.com','','The PR game is a rearguard action. I don\'t think it\'s winnable; too many people are too tired of \"this cycle of violence\", and too ignorant of of the history and ideology, and too rational and well-meaning. Data is filtered so that it supports the gestalt of the perceiver. So no matter what time Sharon might choose to act against the \"political wing\" leader of Hamas, it would be the wrong time.\r\n\r\nIsrael can\'t weaken Abbas\' 3-4% support, and she can\'t make significant moves to lighten up on the Palestinians (which, in theory, would redound to his credit) while Hamas, PIJ, et al are on the rampage. The time to act against Hamas is now, earlier not later.\r\n\r\nCertainly we\'re seeing some triangulation, the differentiation of Hamas as a terror group with irredentist goals. I have noticed AP and Reuters stories which refer to Hamas, \"whose goal is the destruction of Israel\", \"opposed to peace and the roadmap\", and similar stuff. That seems new to me, and welcome. As do the EU responses to the French apologia.','2003-06-18 20:59:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3684,1,3650,'65.95.81.195','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Mean Mr. Mustard has an idea or 2 about this...','2003-06-18 21:05:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3685,1,3628,'63.100.125.11','Terry','onkka@earthlink.net','','Rommel was appoited by Hitler in early 44, to inspect the Atlantic Wall. He found the defenses in a poor state, except at the Pas de Calise, were the 15th Army was based. At the time of the invasion Rommel was the Commander of Army Group B which had responsibility for the Normandy coast. It was in this capacity that Rommel was serving when the Hawker Tyhpoon shot up his car. ','2003-06-18 21:25:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3686,1,3647,'24.193.224.92','ForNow','twexclor@yahoo.com','','Regarding the timing of the raid on the Mujahedin-e Khalq (MEK or MKO), this might be the time that the US would actually like to see the Islamo-Marxist, long war-absorbed, & probably cultlike MEK taken out. Iran may be on the verge of a revolution, in which the US, I suspect, probably sees little good in the MEK\'s taking part &, after which, much less good in the MEK\'s taking part in a new Iranian government. I don\'t defend Chirac or de Villepin. To the contrary. But I can\'t help wondering whether the raid came with US support or prompting. Anyway, I\'m glad to see a reduction in the MEK\'s potential role in Iran.','2003-06-18 21:32:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3687,1,3647,'65.95.81.195','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Me too. (\"Anyway, I\'m glad to see a reduction in the MEK\'s potential role in Iran.\")','2003-06-18 21:37:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3688,1,3647,'24.60.103.254','Colin Mathews','colin_mathews@yahoo.com','','It\'s true that the U.S. supported a lot of very bad people in the past, under the \"better our bastards than their bastards\" strategy. It\'s tough to defend a lot of the specific horrors of the U.S. proxies around the world. But at least the U.S. fighting a proxy war against the demonstrably evil Soviet Union; we supported bastards to prevent nations from falling under the yoke of one of the most murderous philosophies in history. What\'s the French excuse for supporting Mugabe, Hamas, Hussein, et al.? Is the U.S. as bad as the Soviet Union, and so must be resisted by supporting similarly evil regimes? That\'s a rhetorical question.','2003-06-18 22:00:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3689,1,3647,'24.243.53.232','Terence Blakely','tblakely@austin.rr.com','','I have noticed that the apologists for Frances’ current support for terrorist organizations and vicious dictators like to point out that the U.S. has supported dictators in the past. What they forget to mention is that in the main the U.S. supported those dictatorships during the Cold War to fight the spread of communism. What is Frances’ excuse for her current behavior? I have come to conclude that for many of these apologists any action that thwarts the U.S. is a good thing regardless of its cost.','2003-06-18 22:05:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3690,1,3647,'24.193.224.92','ForNow','twexclor@yahoo.com','http://4now.blogspot.com','Just wanted to say, in case I\'m not heard from again, that I found this site through Merde in France (with whose author I just traded a few interesting emails under my real name). You guys (Merde in France, Winds of Change, Dissident Frogman, etc.) have a terrific set of sites going, the France section of my \"Favorites\" menu has expanded rapidly.','2003-06-18 22:09:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3691,1,3649,'206.222.52.18','Jeff Brokaw','jeff@nothanks.net','http://jeffbrokaw.net/weblog/','Re: \"Nixon actually is a good example. There are still people out there who try to justify his behavior with an \'everyone was doing it, he just got caught\' defense.\"\r\n\r\nHow much difference is there between Nixon\'s dirty tricks and Clinton\'s? Clinton used DOJ to dig up dirt on political enemies. Clinton used shady/illegal tactics to raise campaign funds (Buddhist monastery, taking Chinese government money). Etc.\r\n\r\nNixon used / attempted to use DOJ and CIA to influence the independent counsel Watergate investigation. Nixon broke into Ellsberg\'s psychiatrist\'s office to dig up dirt on him. Etc. \r\n\r\nObviously there is lots more; I don\'t have all the facts available for instant recall. I\'m just not sure I get - now or back then - all the indignation about Nixon. He did some stupid/bad stuff, he got caught, he paid a price. He hardly invented the practice.','2003-06-18 22:28:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3692,1,3650,'138.133.17.5','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Alene - \r\n\r\nMy whole point is that it is more than PR; what matters in this drama is how the willingness of the true underwriters of this drama to keep writing checks.\r\n\r\nWhen the checks stop, we will see a rapid decline in terrorism.\r\n\r\nThe U.S. military has given them one major reason to stop writing checks; that\'s the kind fo PR I\'m talking about.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-18 22:35:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3693,1,3647,'216.175.73.241','Whaq','twnicholson@mindspring.com','','This astonished me: the quote from Guy Milliere\'s article \"France is Not A Western Country Anymore\" to the effect that in \"many\" French cities, teenaged girls -- all of them, not just muslim girls -- have to go out at night in burqas, lest they be harrased or attacked.\r\n\r\nIf that\'s true, it really is troubling -- even if it\'s just one city. That\'s just not acceptable in any western society--not under any circumtances or according to any major western ideology, left or right, that I can think of.\r\n\r\nSome of the comments presented in the symposium are so dire they\'re hard to believe. (As Kamins said -- they\'re very French comments!!) \r\n\r\nI honestly don\'t know what to think -- I don\'t doubt France is facing (or rather, not facing up to) a boatload of problems, but how deranged, really, is their society becoming? I\'ll want more evidence before I\'ll accept that the short-term is as bleak as protrayed in the symposium.','2003-06-18 22:35:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3694,1,3647,'203.26.24.216','al','eabru20@hotmail.com','','The Australian intelligence services too recently raided the homes of alleged MEK members and arrested many. It is believed they did so in collaboration with U.S. intelligence or that the latter were aware of the raids. MEK are revolutionary communists and would perhaps not make good leaders of a post-mullahcracy Iran. On the other hand, perhaps the Australians (and the French) simply noticed this group on a list of proscribed (i.e. terrorist) organisations and decided, in the new, more anxious climate, to take them out. The people caught in the dragnet had lived here for a long time, but (as in the French case) that doesn\'t mean that until now the government was supporting terrorists.','2003-06-18 23:25:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3695,1,3647,'12.253.20.38','scott h.','scott_helg@yahoo.com','','About Hamas\r\n\r\nFirst, Maxim, Israel has never negotiated with Hamas, and never will. This is mainly due to the fact that the Hamas Covenant specifically calls for the destruction of Israel, and rejects any attempts at negotiation. \"Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.\" Also: \"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.\" Whenever you hear of negotiations with Hamas, these refer to negotiation between the PA and Hamas, not Israel and Hamas.\r\n\r\nFurthermore, Israel \"rejects Hamas\' claim that the group\'s political leaders are strictly separated from the military wing\". The US and Canada do not differentiate between the \"political and military\" of Hamas, only the EU makes the distinction. (Canada did make a distinction between the \"political and military wing\" of Hezbollah, but has recently banned Hezbollah completely.\r\n\r\nMore info on Hamas here and here. \r\n\r\nIs this Iranian group bad? Sure. It just looks extremely suspicious when the French crack down on them, yet refuse to label the \"political wing\" of Hamas a terrorist organization, which nations like the US, Canada, Israel, and Germany (apparently) have all done.','2003-06-18 23:29:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3696,1,3647,'12.253.20.38','scott h.','scott_helg@yahoo.com','','Dang it, I knew I\'d screw up one of those tags. There are 2 links in that big block.','2003-06-18 23:31:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3697,1,3647,'24.193.224.92','ForNow','twexclor@yahoo.com','http://4now.blogspot.com','The news about the raid by the Aussies is interesting & welcome. But I don’t think that the French “just noticed” something about the MEK group which they’ve been providing with poice protection for decades now.','2003-06-18 23:38:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3698,1,3647,'67.72.207.136','Watcher','watcherofweasels@mail.com','http://www.upsaid.com/watcherofweasels/','If you think that France\'s anti-American viewpoint is bad enough now... just wait until their 10% Muslim population doubles or triples.','2003-06-18 23:54:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3699,1,3647,'217.185.237.45','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\ni really do support Paul Siegel\'s view of things.\r\nlooking into history tells me (everybody has his own view of history, and that\'s a part of mine) that there is and was never \'the big conpiration\', \r\n\'the one and only evil\'. things often go this way or that way, and everything could have been going any other way if any accident or chance would have happend. would there really have been second world war if the \'terrorist-attack\' against him _before_ he became what he got \'famous\' for would have succeded? looking into history tells me it is will, its circumstances, it is biography of few, it is dumb contretemps that made and makes histroy.\r\nfinding an ultimative \'plan\' and \'conspiration\' behind every decision deflects from reality.\r\n\r\nand Paul is right when he talks about every thesis can find it\'s facts.\r\n\r\nfor a long time i couldn\'t accept intelligent and wise people can have so different opinions on things. but it really shows one thing: \'the one and only thruth\' is not existing, people are doing right, and they are doing wrong. and even the intelligent ones do their mistakes - or to make it more radikal can be wrong throughout their lives.\r\ndo you really think the chiefs of KPdSU in the soviet-union always where as dumb as a post? and every of hilter\'s helpers where stupid idiots? no, they where not, they just where wrong. [this does not make their doing a better one, of course]\r\n\r\nhow interpretable \'news\' are, how difficult facts are to recover - doesn\'t the news about the MKO show it?\r\nthanks to joe, ggonzales, w.smith and others for uncovering this.\r\n\r\nis there really this one big conspiration of french anti-americanist islamo-marxist behind every of de\'villepens steps?\r\nin france we have the most conservative government in france\' history, why _they_ should fight for leftists? or extreme nationalists? both are their hardest enemies. JUST THINK.\r\n\r\n------------------\r\nabout the hamas thing:\r\n\r\n\"Hamas does work in the refugee camps? Well, Hitler lowered the unemployment rate and Osama Bin Laden built roads. So freaking what? There is NO complexity involved, these people are openly genocidal and there is no separation in practice between any part of Hamas and its military arm.\"\r\n\r\nmy intention was not to marginalize hamas\' terrorism and the problem they are to a working peace-process.\r\ni know the facts scott has cited. but the problem with this is another one, than recognizing they are unusful for palestinians future and they are a terrorist group, which is not hard to dicover.\r\n\r\nbut you should _recognize_ they _are_ the only ones helping in the refugee camps, they give financial support, they build kindergardens, they give food. this shouldn\'t marginalize their terroristical aims - but it should show that there is a problem that lies deeper than just the obvious way of \'good\' and \'evil\'. in our way of sight, they are, indeed, evil. but how would you think of if they are you\'re only delivery of bread and humanitarian aid? they give another thing to the refugees, which makes the situation as complicated as it is: \'education\'. you know what this means. their education is agitation for their aims.\r\n\r\nis there a real peace thinkable without hamas, or by trying to destroy them? NO.\r\nis there a real peace thinkable with hamas, or by trying to negotiate with them? NO.\r\ndo i have a solution for this to offer? NO.\r\nbut i can say things are not as simple as they may be looking on the first looking, but they are not. destroying hamas does not only mean destroying an terrorist organization, but it also does mean destroying an humanitarian organization - and thats not a solution those who live in these refugee camps will give up without fight.\r\n\r\n\"And yes, there is an alternative to negotiating with Hamas. Just as there\'s an alternative to negotiating with al-Qaeda. Unlike negotiation, the alternative works.\"\r\n\r\nyes? really? is it that simple? the news i can watch from israel since 40 years have to be different to yours. i can see how helpless a high-tech army can be against those who have to offer their live for killing innocent ones.\r\nand what about the news in iraq? the news that i was watching told me since may1 51 soldiers died, more than one a day. and the numbers are increasing week by week.\r\n','2003-06-19 00:54:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3700,1,3653,'138.133.17.9','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','I\'d love to get some direction on what we could specifically do - what point we ought to try to get across - that would havethe maximum effect on the events over in Iran.\r\n\r\nI\'m happy to research, write, or otherwise put some real effort into this...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-19 01:03:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3701,1,3647,'24.90.251.209','someone','no@one.no','','Whaq: I believe he was referring to the \'cités\' -- the projects surrounding major cities and towns in France. Not the cities themselves.\r\n\r\n(See, e.g., this.)','2003-06-19 01:34:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3702,1,3647,'24.193.224.92','ForNow','twexclor@yahoo.com','http://4now.blogspot.com','It is so simple.\r\n\r\nHamas provides kindergartens, & teaches children from a young age to hate & dream of murdering Jews. Like the refugee camps, Hamas is part of the multigenerational project of the weaponization of minds & culture of the Palestinians.\r\n\r\nHamas has always wanted to eliminate Israel.\r\n\r\nIf somebody is determined to kill you, if that is what he pursues as his life’s work, then with him you do not negotiate except as a ploy.\r\n\r\nThere is nothing to negotiate about. For Israel there is only to destroy Hamas & Hizbollah. For the US there is only to destroy the Taliban, to destroy Saddam’s regime, to destroy the regimes of Iran, Syria, & North Korea. By means military or otherwise.\r\n\r\nHere in the United States the majority of us are determined for an active policy of destroying, by means military or otherwise, all regimes & organizations who would destroy us. Barring unforeseen extraordinary events, that policy is set in granite until 2008 at the earliest.\r\n\r\nSeptember 11, 2001 is an important date in US history, & an important date in French history, whether France likes it or not. France has no choice in the matter.','2003-06-19 01:48:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3703,1,3650,'68.85.101.77','Alene Berk','lene1@myrealbox.com','','A. L.--\r\n\r\nI hope the kind of PR you\'re talking about is enough. Follow the money, and I\'ll follow the English-language Arab press and Memri. \r\n\r\nAlene','2003-06-19 01:51:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3704,1,3647,'217.185.237.181','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\nThere is nothing to negotiate about. For Israel there is only to destroy Hamas & Hizbollah.\r\n\r\nat least one question still open: what do you do with the thousends of \'weaponizeds\'?\r\n\r\nit\'s the same question as: what do you expect to face in afghanistan after winning the war?\r\nand it is the same question as: what do you do with the weaponized country of iraq after \'freeing\'?\r\n\r\nin either case the answer seems to be trouble, deads and failure.','2003-06-19 02:15:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3705,1,3647,'68.69.59.140','Alisa','alisa@silentrunning.tv','http://alisainwonderland.silentrunning.tv','Maxim, the IDF (the Israeli military) is not at all powerless against Hamas or anyone who is \"willing to offer their lives\" to kill Israelis. The military power is there. The reasons for not exercising that power are purely political.\r\n\r\nAll: as an American, I am absolutely disgusted by the French behavior during the past year (and during previous years as well). As an Israeli and a Jew I am even more disgusted with it, but I do have just a bit of a problem with some of the American self-righteousness while criticising the French. I suspect that self-righteousness to be somewhat newly-acquired, most likely following 9/11. And I am not talking about support of tyrants (although I certainly could). I am talking about ignoring murderous gangs like Hamas. It certainly looks like the US did not mind them before, because (as DenBeste puts it) \"they were only killing Jews\". I wish this country did not have to go through 9/11 to finally open it\'s eyes, and I sure hope that neither France, nor any other country has to go through the same to realize who our (the humanity\'s) common enemy is.\r\n\r\nA side note: I agree that the timing of the French crackdown is suspicious, but it could as well be true that they did have specific intel on the group\'s intent to blow-up Iranian embassies in Europe. Stranger things have happened.','2003-06-19 02:25:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3706,1,3647,'68.22.243.114','Sage','baconfortress@ameritech.net','','No, Maxim, goddamn it, Hamas is NOT the only organization \"helping\" in the refugee camps. Where in the hell did you get that crazy idea? It so happens that the UN, and EU, and a thousand Arab charities around the globe pour mountains of hard currency and humanitarian assistance into the West Bank. The Palestinians are, in fact, the only nationalist movement in the world currently living off of a flood of international welfare.\r\n\r\nYou have to be really, really, really stupid to fall for the good cop-bad cop routine put on by Hamas, even while they take credit for one suicide bombing after the next. The fact that they raise money for humanitarian purposes is completely tangential, and the ONLY reason they do this is because it keeps them popular with the Palestinians themselves--even as they serve as magnets for IDF troops and missiles. The fact that reasonable people can be so easily duped shows a staggering ignorance. Just admit it, for god\'s sake--Villepin\'s suggestion that Hamas ought to be treated with kid gloves, only days after they have slaughtered scores of women and children in cold blood, is indefensible. Your calling attention to their humanitarian efforts--which you know to be a smoke screen--in some attempt to whitewash the facts on the ground is utterly offensive.\r\n\r\nI wonder how much humaitarian assistance they\'ll be doling out to the families of the children they murder.','2003-06-19 04:57:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3707,1,3647,'171.75.238.95','cj','thejohnsonsmc@yahoo.com','http://dubitoks.tripod.com','Maxim\'s post, ending \"in either case the ending seems to be trouble, deads and failure\" reminds me of a similar thread by a French national (I think on Samizdata). I think there is evidence of a fundamental difference of philosophy between the French and Americans.\r\n\r\nTo Maxim I would ask: And what is the alternative? \r\n\r\nYes, the road ahead is fraught with trouble and potential failure -- and possibly a few deads (not sure if you mean deaths or deadends). But I think America(ns) are willing to face these possibilities, because to not do so seems the greater evil.','2003-06-19 05:03:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3708,1,3653,'171.75.238.95','cj','thejohnsonsmc@yahoo.com','http://dubitoks.tripod.com','I would like to add that blogging about something is fine -- and certainly can have real results. But don\'t forget to write to your elected representatives, your local newspaper, etc., to voice your opinion (about this or any other matter you feel strongly about). There are many avenues of expression (and the US political system is still a powerful force for change).','2003-06-19 05:14:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3709,1,3650,'171.75.238.95','cj','thejohnsonsmc@yahoo.com','http://dubitoks.tripod.com','I\'d like to commend this site for highlighting here and in other posts (i.e. humanitarian aid financing Pali terrorism) the financial aspect of this situation. I think you are on to something, and I haven\'t seen it publicized elsewhere.\r\n\r\nI also agree with your assessment of the Israeli attack on Rantisi. I do not dispute the right of Israel to respond to terrorism; nevertheless, Sharon\'s actions were ill-timed, it would have been better to allow someone else to \"play the heavy.\" What I mean by this is, the action was immediately parlayed into, \"Oh, it\'s all Israel\'s fault for retaliating.\" I think when Bush condemned Sharon\'s actions, what he was saying was, \"give this fish a little more line to play. It will exhaust itself, and be easier to catch.\" Sharon did not do this, and thus I think it DID delay what ultimately will be accomplished.\r\n\r\nThe two arguments against my own position are: 1)Israel\'s right to defend it\'s sovereignty, and 2)Israel may have had intelligence indicating that Rantisi was spearheading a major terrorist action (I\'ve read of hints of same).\r\n\r\nNevertheless, if Israel can allow the US to play the heavy (hey, Pali\'s, we\'ve given you every opportunity to fulfill your word that you accept the roadmap and you haven\'t, and now there are going to be real consequences...) and Abbas has been given time to either prove he is independent of Arafat, or prove that he is no different than Arafat and/or has no power to govern, any quasi-plausible arguments against \"taking out the Pali\'s governing structure\" will have been effectively dealt with politically, and real progress could be made. And I\'m talking a timeline of several weeks/couple months, not years.\r\n\r\nAnd let me state that I, personally, believe these arguments have already been made (decades ago). But I think that the Bush administration is trying/needs to set up a game plan existent during it\'s lifetime to have the political legitimacy to defend future actions. Sharon\'s actions threw a monkey wrench into that, and I think that is the reason for the sharp tone of Bush\'s initial reaction. Iraq set the stage by underscoring the Bush administration\'s seriousness and willingness to deal with terroristic regimes, and I don\'t think anyone can doubt that he plans to do the same with the Pali\'s (and probably Syria next). But in light of the pre-Iraq war events (UN, France/Germany, etc.), and the post-Iraq war events (demands for WMD evidence, puffs re: impeachment, upcoming election), he has to carefully set the stage to carry out his plans. I think Bush not only believes that he was meant to be president at this time, I think he is very aware of how he will look HISTORICALLY, and he wants it documented that he worked as much as possible within a global political climate, while not flinching from making hard, unpopular decisions he feels are right.\r\n\r\nI bet he goes to sleep at night thinking, \"just give me a little time, WORK with me.\"\r\n\r\nThat said, I fully understand the political and moral pressures on Sharon to act expendiently. I\'m just not sure his actions are the best, given a long-term view.','2003-06-19 05:46:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3710,1,3647,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','maxim -\r\n\r\n\"is it that simple? the news i can watch from israel since 40 years have to be different to yours. i can see how helpless a high-tech army can be against those who have to offer their live for killing innocent ones.\"\r\n\r\nmaxim, the only reason the hi-tech army can be seen as helpless is that the soldiers and commanders are humane almost beyond understanding.\r\n\r\nIf Israel chose to, they could readily level every village in Palestine. It is the restraint - and yes, I\'m aware of civilians killed in cross-fire, and injured in thousands of other ways. But compared to the capabilities of the modern armies, the levels of destruction in Palestine (and Iraq and Afghanistan) represent a triumph of humane military action.\r\n\r\nRead histories of urban warfare in WW II, and understand that the capabilities of the modern armies - the sheer destructive capability - are probably an order of magnitude greater per combatant than they were then.\r\n\r\nSo whatever we believe about the political causes and eventual solutions, please understand that the issue isn\'t the relative ineffectiveness of the modern (Israeli or American) military, but its restraint.\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n','2003-06-19 05:58:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3711,1,3647,'66.21.136.226','cubanbob','cubanbob1956@yahoo.com','','For Maxim and like minded individuals I pose this question: If the Palestinians are Arabs, and as Arabs like to point out that all Arabs are brothers, why is the political arm of Hammas so sucessful in the refugee camps,since Arabs as brothers, should accept their Palestinian brethern into their homes and not cast them into camps as barely tolerated strangers.\r\n\r\nCould it be that these camps exist in large part due to the funding of these camps by the French dominated EU and by the aquiesence of the US by it\'s funding (along with further EU funding ) of the UN created Palestinian refugee camps? After 50 years one would think the Arab Palestinian brethern would at the minimum hold dual citizenship in the Arab countries they presently reside in,as brothers, being able to integrate themselves in those countries (like they are able to in the US and in most non-Arab countries) instead of still being \"refugees\" amongst their \"brothers\".\r\n\r\nCould it be that in fact these terrorist (Hammas,Hezbollah,Al-Aqusa Martyrs Brigade to name a few) are in large part a creation of and whose continuing existence is due to the funding and acceptance of the EU and the UN?','2003-06-19 06:45:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3712,1,3647,'212.234.231.51','GGonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','The France defenders (Paul Siegel and others) don\'t give much objective support for their position other than a presumed need for more perspective, as well as their tu quoque argument. I also think that the theme of the (extremely uncomfortable) alliance between the Left and Islamism (Cy Kologis) is a bit overworked. I think this involves making the wrong assumptions and applying the wrong categories to French motivations.\r\n\r\nMy criticism of the French has little to do with their opposition to the war per se. Indeed, its extreme form of realpolitik, devoid of any regard for human rights, decency, and responsibility, is hardly new. Moreover, French leftism is only marginally similar to American leftism in their shared collectivist approaches. American leftism is far more superficial and diffuse. French leftism is harder to define, since the French parties on the right support a great deal of \"collectivism\" that Americans would label as \"leftist\" and the French left is hardly multiculturalist. Indeed, both the left and the right in France have been coopting National Front hyper-nationalist and xenophobic themes for some time. Another important difference is that on neither left nor the right in France do you find any self-reflection, let alone criticism, regarding the morality or even wisdom of that country\'s own actions abroad: there is a common advocacy of the \"Raison d\'Etat\".\r\n\r\nWhat unites the Right and the Left in France in the realm of foreign policy is the shared primacy of French national interests, to the virtual exclusion of other considerations, coupled with a virulent anti-Americanism whose center of gravity is its hostility towards the perceived American threat to those French nationalist interests, rather than, say, a blanket objection to imperialism or concern for the Third World.\r\n\r\nOne need look no further than the dozens of French military or intelligence service interventions in Africa over the past 40 years to protect French strategic and commercial interests, with nary a discouraging word among the political classes or the press. Also instructive is the French position in the first Gulf War - the one that really was about oil. The U.S. Senate could barely eke out a majority (52-48) in support of that war. In contrast, the French government approved the intervention by a 92% vote in the National Assembly and a 95% vote in the Senate. And that was with a Socialist Party majority in power! In that case, French commercial and strategic interests truly were at stake: France in contrast to the U.S. produces no oil and is 100% dependent on imports. The French are hardly pacifists.\r\n\r\nAll nations look out for to protect their strategic and economic interests. The line is a certain sense of basic morality (Bosnia, Kosovo) and responsibility. The U.S. may at times approach that line but, leaving aside a few cold war excesses, it tries not to step over it. Examples of stepping over the line are: (i) sales of weapons-capable nuclear reactors to a tyranical regime, (ii) sales of 8 billion $ in arms to that same tyrannical regime (the comparable U.S. figure is 5 million $, (iii) sales of military parts through \"third countries\" to resupply that equipment, (iv) entering into \"conditional\" oil drilling contracts worth in excess of 50 billion $ that are dependent upon the regime\'s remaining in power and the lifting of sanctions.\r\n\r\nOne might add the recent consolidation of relations by France with Syria, Iran, Lebanon, Libya, Sudan and the Palestinian Authority. The French of course will cite their so-called \"historical ties\" with the region and the need for another force to counter the U.S. hegemon. But the whole rapprochement has a distinctly commercial and obstructionist smell to it. It certainly has nothing to do with concern for third world peoples or collective security. Indeed, France more or less openly supports the perpetuation of dictatorships in the Arab world (and elsewhere) in the interests of ensuring the stability necessary to cultivating its commercial and strategic interests in the region. Do we hear French voices rising up to condemn such dubious policies? Of course not.\r\n\r\nThese policies may not be realistic or far-sighted. But they certainly are cynical and fundamentally irresponsible.','2003-06-19 07:04:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3713,1,3647,'65.95.81.195','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Folks, I think we\'ve discovered another commenter who needs to be elevated to Guest Blogger status. GGonzalez, come on down!','2003-06-19 07:36:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3714,1,3641,'138.180.190.68','someguy','igraineyoko@libero.it','','According to an article I read in SPIN several years ago, the main dangers posed to TGD are the fact that it\'s built on an earthquake fault, and the rapidly accumulating silt that jams the sluice gates, relief valves etc.\r\n\r\nThe second is not a theoretical problem either. As the SPIN article pointed out, it was the clogging silt that was responsible for the breaking of the several dams that were on the Yangtze in 1975. This happened during a rainstorm of several days, and the resulting flooding, disease, and lack of potable water led to tens of thousands of deaths.\r\n\r\nSo whether or not the cracks make any difference, the dam is a great danger. Maybe the best thing that can happen is that it bursts soon before the resevoir (which will be long enough to stretch from New Orleans to St. Louis) is completely full.\r\n','2003-06-19 08:22:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3715,1,3653,'193.172.125.25','Wijnand','wijnand@zonnet.nl','','Joe,\r\n\r\nExcellent idea to have WoCh serve as coordinating site, but I would suggest to start now, as the key things blogs can do is support the Iranians in the run up to July 9, and create as much awareness as possible beforehand.\r\n\r\nCheers,\r\nWijnand','2003-06-19 08:33:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3716,1,3647,'195.6.223.153','Jean','jean@busherie.com','','Tu oublié de lire les article concernant la vente des airbus A380 (20 appareil deux fois plus gros que le plus gros des boeings) a larabie saoudite\r\ndommage pour boeing, il ont le pétrole et nous les avions\r\nbye ','2003-06-19 12:26:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3717,1,3647,'195.6.223.153','jean','jean@busherie.com','','Quel beau matos ils ont 10 ans d\'avance ces américain sur leur 30 ans de retard','2003-06-19 12:43:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3733,1,3634,'198.103.53.5','Ikram Saeed','saeedik@hotmail.com','http://canoe.blogspot.com','The \'typical\' path to nationhood you describe is not typical at all. France was a state before a nation. As was Canada. As was the UK. As is Iran. As was Turkey. And Mst South American countries. And India. And Spain. And Italy. And Macedonia. And Libya.\r\n\r\nI would say that the typical path to nationhood is\r\n\r\nstate-->nation','2003-06-19 16:10:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3719,1,3647,'195.6.223.153','blogographe','blogographe@hotmail.com','','ça c\'est vrai','2003-06-19 13:06:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3720,1,3647,'212.234.231.51','GGonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','\"ils ont le pétrole et nous les avions\"\r\n\r\nEh les gars, vous nous rendez un peu trop facile la tâche. Vous pourriez au moins nous laisser réfléchir un peu au lieu de faire la démonstration de la thèse à notre place ! Et bravo pour les airbus ! Quel progrès pour l\'humanité !','2003-06-19 13:25:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3721,1,3647,'212.234.231.51','GGonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','QED','2003-06-19 13:26:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3722,1,3647,'195.6.223.153','blogographe','blogographe@hotmail.com','','D\'ailleur une chose que vous n\'aurais jamais c\'est notre liberté de penser.\r\n','2003-06-19 13:42:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3723,1,3647,'208.187.23.182','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','GGonzalez,\r\n\r\n No. It is alot simpler than that.\r\n\r\n France is becoming Greater Algeria.\r\n\r\n The French elites hate their own nationality and anyone who is any good is leaving France. A joke all the rage in London goes something like this \"Where do you find a young, hustling French entreprenure (sp?)...London, of course.\"\r\n\r\n France is well on its way to becoming the first Arab nuclear power. Of course, it will then run into the American 9/11 doctrine -- \"No Arab state will be allowed to own or credibly pretend to own WMD.\"\r\n\r\n France is doomed to live in very interesting times. \r\n ','2003-06-19 14:06:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3724,1,3647,'195.6.223.153','Blogographe','merdeinfrance@hotmail.com','','![](\"http://www.attrition.org/gallery/signs/business/tn/eat_here_get_gas.jpg.html\")
','2003-06-19 14:12:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3725,1,3647,'195.6.223.153','blogographe','blogographe@hotmail.com','','![](\"http://www.ilportoritrovato.net/risorse/twintowersattac.jpg\")
Mon wallpaper préféré','2003-06-19 14:27:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3726,1,3649,'64.65.206.96','Chuck','chuck@simmins.org','http://blog.simmins.org','Today is ![](\"http://www.attrition.org/gallery/politics/bush/time_bush.jpg\")
\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-06-19 16:11:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3735,1,3647,'195.6.223.153','blogographe','blogographe@hotmail.com','','![](\"http://www.attrition.org/gallery/politics/bush/tn/time_bush.jpg.html\")
','2003-06-19 16:13:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3736,1,3649,'152.163.190.1','Celeste','celeste@windsofchange.net','http://permagringirl.blogspot.com','Jeff -\r\nThere isn\'t much difference between Nixon and Clinton, which is why I have little respect for either. That there are folks out there who will defend one\'s behavior while condemning that of the other\'s is hypocrisy. It\'s alive and well in both parties. Its just that, to me, while both parties might have a pretty high tolerance for dishonest, petty criminals, the left has a much more dangerous blind spot for murdering dictators.','2003-06-19 17:29:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3737,1,3647,'207.247.0.36','osasha','a_osipov@thermalengint.com','','To: Phil Winsor\r\n\r\nMy French is sketchy, but the posts are very simple. \r\n\r\n\"jean\" was bragging that Saudi Arabia purchased 20 A-380 planes from Airbus recently, twice more than from Boeing, and that was a defeat for Boeing, which might have the oil, but they (\"jean & co.\"?) have the planes.\r\n\r\nNext one by \"jean\" was celebrating 10 years of their (\"jean & co.\"?) advance against 30 years of US retreat, I didn\'t quite get it.\r\n\r\nThen \"blogographe\" said that it is so true.\r\n\r\n\"GGonzalez\" criticized \"jean\".\r\n\r\nThen \"blogographe\" said that what we will never have is their freedom of thought.\r\n\r\nThen \"blogographe\" posted 9/11 pictures with a comment that it is his preferred wallpaper.','2003-06-19 17:34:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3738,1,3647,'212.234.231.51','GGonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Phil\r\n\r\nI actually sent you a private message translation, which I might as well republish:\r\n\r\nBEGIN\r\n\r\n\"You forgot to read the articles about the sale of the Airbus 380s (20 planes twice as big as the biggest boeing) to Saudia Arabia. Too bad for Boeing, they\'ve got the oil and we\'ve got the planes.\r\nbye \r\nPosted by: Jean on June 19, 2003 12:26 PM \r\nGreat stuff, they\'ve got a ten year lead over the Americans on their thirty year lag.\r\nPosted by: jean on June 19, 2003 12:43 PM \r\nThat\'s certainly true.\r\nPosted by: blogographe on June 19, 2003 01:06 PM \r\n\"they\'ve got the oil and we\'ve got the planes\"\r\nHey guys, you\'re making it a little too easy for us. You could at least let us think a bit instead of proving the point for us. And congrats on the Airbuses! What progress for humanity!\r\nPosted by: GGonzalez on June 19, 2003 01:25 PM \r\nQED\r\nPosted by: GGonzalez on June 19, 2003 01:26 PM \r\nMoreover, one thing you will never have is our freedom of thought.\"\r\n\r\nEND\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-06-19 17:46:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3739,1,3647,'212.234.231.51','GGonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','It is too bad when a thread descend into name-calling and mindless bragging. There are in fact very good arguments one can make re: French foreign policy (and certainly its domestic policies). Mitterand for example strongly supported against his political foes the U.S. stance on placing Pershing missiles in Europe to offset the Soviet threat during the Cold War. Mitterand was also the first European leader to draw attention to the Bosnia problem and even landed in Sarajevo under a hail of sniper fire (à la George Bush carrier landing). Mitterand also mandated Hoechst to produce the RU-486 \"day after pill\" after Reagan banned it and tried to kill the market for it.\r\n\r\nOn French problems with their Arab population, they face difficulties and traditions that are such that they cannot simply adopt wholesale the American assimilation model. There has also been greater consciousness about addressing problem of racism, so widespread that it is the majority held view in France according to their own public opinion polls... Oops! Here I go again! These arguments are best left for others to formulate, but there certainly is a countercase to be presented on a number of issues.','2003-06-19 18:21:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3740,1,3647,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','osasha & GGonzalez:\r\n\r\nThanks for the help- Your translations confirm my guesses, based on the graphics posted by \"blogographe\"\r\n\r\nAirbus 380- if I recall correctly, this aircraft needs special handling at airports due to its size-what good will they be if an airport won\'t make the effort and passengers can\'t disembark?\r\n\r\nblogographe:\r\nBe careful what you wish for-- you just might get it.','2003-06-19 18:34:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3741,1,3647,'216.175.73.241','Whaq','twnicholson@mindspring.com','','Well, one thing you gotta admit, even when it\'s meant to provoke or insult you--French is a grand and lovely language.\r\n\r\nToo bad the French own it. . . .','2003-06-19 18:35:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3742,1,3643,'216.175.108.227','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Sorry, but Howard knew not what he spake:\r\n\r\nTHE White House has undermined John Howard\'s claim that a trailer found in northern Iraq has been confirmed by British and US intelligence agencies as a mobile weapons laboratory.\r\n\r\nThe White House admitted the trailer Mr Howard cited as evidence of Iraq\'s weapons of mass destruction was not \"irrefutable\" proof of the arsenal nominated as the chief reason for war. \r\n\r\nGeorge W. Bush\'s spokesman, Ari Fleischer, said the US believed two trailers found in Iraq were mobile weapons factories but he conceded there was no certain evidence of that. \r\n\r\nHas anyone told Fox News yet?','2003-06-19 19:54:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3743,1,3649,'66.202.98.142','butch','butch_bornt@hotmail.com','','Jeff -\r\n\r\nActually, Clinton has less class than Nixon. Nixon never bad mouthed his successors, per tradition since Washington. Funny how our two most recent Dimocrat Presidents (BJ & Carter) have ignored this precedent.','2003-06-19 20:44:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3744,1,3647,'24.193.224.92','ForNow','twexclor@yahoo.com','http://4now.blogspot.com','It may be that the French have glamorized the criminal for too long in too many ways. A certain sociopathy of expression, that goes rather beyond classic sang-froid, seems to have become fashionable among many of them. I speak not only of the comments & pictures that I find here, but also elsewhere, in non-political forums too. A kind of sang-froid plus post-modernist disrespect for meanings of words plus reactionary political motivation that borders on the contrarian, opportunistic, & insincere way that a somewhat educated criminal tends to argue -- the kind of argument that tends, when pushed, to dissolve into an pathetic assertion of the kind: “I was just playing with your head, you fool.” It is as if French intellectual culture were tending toward a renunciation of humanity as any kind of ideal. I suppose blogographe may be proud of Frenchness, but he should wonder whether Frenchness can be proud of him.','2003-06-19 21:11:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3745,1,3656,'66.57.84.42','bigwig','bigwig@nc.rr.com','http://silflayhraka.com','We\'ve got a new url, btw.\r\n','2003-06-19 21:48:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3746,1,3647,'64.73.73.18','SparcVark','lanzknecht@hotmail.com','',' Ah, the A380. Son of Concorde. Not so neat, but really, really big. It\'s kinda sad to tout airline orders as some kind of major accomplishment in these circumstances. If this were an airline industry board, I still worked for Boeing, and there was commercial aircraft one-upsmanship going on, maybe.\r\n\r\n The 9/11 stuff is beneath comment. Guess France wasn\'t \"All Americans Now\" for very long, huh? I prefer honest hatred to insincere sympathy, anyway.','2003-06-19 22:10:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3747,1,3643,'67.72.211.134','Watcher','watcherofweasels@mail.com','http://www.upsaid.com/watcherofweasels/','It\'s fairly obvious what those trucks were meant to be used for.','2003-06-19 22:45:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3748,1,3643,'216.175.108.227','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Then surely we don\'t need Howard to make the case?\r\n\r\nReally, no matter what you\'re talking about you ought to be nervous when the people most confident in the answer are those the farther removed from it--Bush, Blair and Howard couldn\'t tell a mobile biological weapons research lab from Luluk Purwanto\'s Stage Bus.\r\n\r\nThere\'s no proof that those trailers were used for WMD, much less have any agents been recovered there or anywhere else, and several analysts give credence to the Iraqi \"hydrogen production\" claim. \r\n\r\nYou want to tell the families that this is why a soldier or so is dying every day in Iraq? Even if you can establish without doubt that these trailers could have produced biological weapons, you\'ll never be able to show that they did.','2003-06-19 23:17:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3749,1,3643,'65.28.97.15','Dan Darling','scorpius@shwiggie.com','http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com',' Actually, the article you cited states that Howard didn\'t have irrefutable evidence for his claims, which doesn\'t conflict with the initial blog, that Howard said that the trailers were biological weapons factories and did have evidence to support that assertion. If one truly desires to split hairs, there isn\'t \"irrefutable evidence\" that we landed on the moon.','2003-06-20 00:01:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3750,1,3641,'64.60.157.194','Prince Roy','franc_shao@yahoo.com','','not that I don\'t welcome a China briefing, but it begs the question of why have an HK blogger do it when there are many excellent bloggers in the PRC? It takes me back to that sentimental time during the GPCR when Westerners couldn\'t go to China and so all the China Hands congregated in HK wistfully gazing over the border and pontificatting on what they thought was going on over there.... ','2003-06-20 01:09:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3751,1,3646,'64.12.96.104','button','button@nospam.com','','Joe:\r\nI blogged a disturbing item early this morning from Al Bawaba which informs that they\'re cracking down on the Internet with new, stricter rules. See my blog for this morning\'s group of entries or Al Bawaba.\r\n\r\nhttp://eclectchap.blogspot.com','2003-06-20 01:24:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3752,1,3657,'68.13.192.6','Wind Rider','wind.rider@silentrunning.tv','http://silentrunning.tv','He left a comment at my place too, and asked if he could use one of my writeups - told him sure, but the story is them, not us...','2003-06-20 01:30:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3753,1,3501,'66.218.230.104','Res','reschevalier@cableaz.com','','Strange my finding this page. I was looking for editorial once written and displayed at a site named The Winds. One certainty here is the remark about regardless the changes made, the religious elements of the Islam world would returned its society again to the past. Nice view, rather truthful, but it would be best remembered what Hitler once said, \"that it made no difference if the older generation approved of him and the Nazi form of socialism, for he (Hitler) was set to change the minds of youth.\" I believe it is there that is the means of change. When the minds of youth are captured, there is no returning to the past. It has happened in Western and Eastern World, and is presently happening in the Middle Eastern World. It may take a couple hundred years, but it will happen. Hitler lost the war, but the changes he made are still felt and in place. Once stout religious America has changed, and there is no going back. We should all hope and strive to make the system one which looks upon human life as precious, as well, the world in which we must live. ','2003-06-20 03:57:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3754,1,3658,'65.95.81.195','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Dunno, seems reasonmable to me too. It\'s even free publicity, guaranteeing the author time on TV and roles as an analyst during the trial. If anything, this move should boost sales sharply when the book does come out. \r\n\r\nThis one has \"bestseller\" written all over it, though I\'d also expect a couple of imitators to be taking advantage of the delay and rushing toward print.','2003-06-20 05:24:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3755,1,3612,'67.74.110.105','Nathen','nathanroberthamm@earthlink.net','','as a former agent of US policy in Uzbekistan (I\'m an RPCV; we\'re covered by diplomatic protocols, so I consider us foreign policy tools), I\'d love to see Central Asia a regular feature. Hell, I should start my own C. Asia blog...','2003-06-20 05:42:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3756,1,3643,'216.175.108.227','clue','clue@bcke.com','','If Howard isn\'t saying anything in stronger terms than Ari Fleisher, then it isn\'t news.\r\n\r\nBoth articles put words into Howard\'s mouth that may not have been there, so let\'s hear from the man himself:\r\n\r\n\"I have been informed as follows: that United States and United Kingdom intelligence agencies have concluded that at least one of the three vehicle trailers found in Iraq is a mobile production, biological weapons production facility.\"\r\n\r\nI\'m fairly certain that the highlighted section isn\'t true. From what I read there\'s a fair amount of disagreement among intelligence analysts, with (as I noted) skepticism rising proportionally with proximity to the evidence. \r\n\r\nI\'m not looking for irrefutable proof in the logical, a priori sense of something that just can\'t be rationally denied. I\'d be satisfied with consensus from the analysts on the ground, but not with consensus from the heads of state alone.','2003-06-20 06:08:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3757,1,3643,'216.175.108.227','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Bad italics, bad...','2003-06-20 06:09:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3758,1,3631,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Trent:\r\nOutstanding analysis.\r\n\r\nOne question on the forces needed to police after combat troops have cleared an area:\r\n\r\nWould you have to liberally sprinkle seasoned combat troops in these new formations to get the quality needed?\r\n\r\nRegardless of technological advances, I would like to see Army combat power increase to 12-14 divisions, instead of reduced to 8. The need to rotate troops, preventing burnout and increasing retention is critical.','2003-06-20 10:04:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3759,1,3658,'80.15.71.189','GGonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Eva Joly has near heroic status in France. She was the first French judge to vigorously challenge the system rather than to acquiesce in in it or defer to higher political authorities more interested in protecting their own or some presumably overriding national interest, usually commercial or political, than in seeking truth or justice. She is the French equivalent of Baltazar Garzon, the famous Spanish magistrate who hounded Pinochet.\r\n\r\nHowever, the notion that postponing publication until after closing arguments (July 7) in the Elf trial amounts to crushing of dissent or a cover-up is ridiculous. \r\n\r\nAfter all, Eva Joly was one of the principal investigating magistrates looking into the very charges now in question in the Elf trial. There is nothing outrageous or novel about a short-term restraining order here, and it hardly sets any precedent at all: such orders to protect the presumption of innocence have long existed in France, not to mention the United States or Great Britain. Imagine Rudy Giuliani publishing an exposé of the mafia in the midst of a hypothetical trial of John Gotti.\r\n\r\nFrance does not have a solid tradition or well-defined system of balance of powers, in particular as far as the judiciary is concerned. Eva Joly is part of an inchoate movement to enhance the power of the judiciary. Some fear, justifiably, I think, that there is some risk of investigating magistrates (who act as a sort of mix between D.A. and judge) gone wild resulting in an abuse of judicial power, and this is indeed a matter of debate.\r\n\r\nIndeed, my suspicion is that if Eva Joly were the judge actually presiding over the Elf trial and were to rule on publication of another judge\'s \"memoires\" concerning the charges in question, her integrity is such that she would likely have made the same decision.\r\n\r\n ','2003-06-20 11:08:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3760,1,3631,'68.158.14.105','Ron C','cart6566@bellsouth.net','http://www.terminus-weblog.net','Wow, nice piece there. Great article in Atlantic this month about the transforming military as well.','2003-06-20 12:13:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3761,1,3631,'208.187.73.120','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Phil,\r\n\r\n The point is that we don\'t need combat troops in Iraq now. We need lots of military police and other service and support troops. \r\n\r\n If we had them, the 3rd ID would be home right now.\r\n\r\n Doctrinally M.P.s are supposed to deal with anything up to a company sized parachute drop with attack helicopter support. The less than squad sized sniping and the terrorist training camp recently destroyed is very much in the M.P. doctrinal threat template.\r\n\r\n Unfortunately many of the reserve M.P. brigades, engineer brigades and other support specialists we had in the Army Reserve and National Guard were disbanded after 1991.','2003-06-20 12:19:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3771,1,2986,'81.198.76.114','Ruslan','null@null.com','http://null','Russia - rulezzz. Good work comrades :).','2003-06-20 14:32:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3772,1,3658,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','...who is this guy?? (GGonzalez) And why doesn\'t he/she have a blog??\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L. ','2003-06-20 14:48:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3773,1,3658,'67.225.186.176','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','\r\nI have posted a reply. Basically, G. Gonzalez is right, but Armed Liberal is wrong. How can that be? See for yourself:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.porphyrogenitus.net/archives/week_2003_06_15.html#001416\r\n\r\n','2003-06-20 15:10:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3774,1,3612,'199.67.140.20','Stephen','stephenanalyst@myway.com','http://www.acepilots.com/opinion/blogger.html','\"Done a great job on the Agonist\"\r\n\r\nPerhaps. But the News Board there has degenerated into an invective-ridden, Bush-hating, conspiracy theory-loving, anti-Semitic, propagandistic exercise that would make al Jazeera blush. Read it for yourself.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-20 15:36:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3775,1,3631,'63.166.226.88','Stephen','stephen@shadowshow.net','http://slapthemonkey.blogspot.com','Winning a war is easy, winning a peace is hard. We clearly didn\'t require such massive numbers of troops to take Iraq as Rumsfeld\'s critics have suggested. We won. The question we having face us, though, is \"Now what?\" Nation building requires a scalpel, not a bandsaw. The types of troops used in fighting a war are great for fighting a war. But what about policing a nation?\r\n\r\nDuring the Los Angeles riots a friend of mine in the Army was stationed down here to help put it down. One thing that he was told by his CO was that they would be working with local police forces, and they would have to react differently than they were trained for. When a police officer asks for cover he\'s usually asking that somebody watch his back and fire if a threat appears. Ask a soldier for cover and he tends to lay down suppressing fire.\r\n\r\nThough we still need actual combat troops in Iraq, as has been made clear by recent attacks and operations to clear out remaining Baathists, it needs police forces as well. You can\'t win a peace by having men trained in how to do nothing but kill (and yes, I know that is a gross oversimplification). We need a hell of a lot more MP\'s and support personnel over there than we currently have and we need it now.\r\n\r\nGranted, many are already over there, and headway is being made to bring the local police forces in line with our philosophies. NPR recently had a report on MP\'s training local police on how to walk a beat in Baghdad. As one MP put it, they need to be retrained to not think that it\'s acceptable to get a confession from a prisoner by hanging him upside down in his jail cell. It\'s a slow process, but the longer it takes the more difficult it gets.','2003-06-20 16:06:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3769,1,3631,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Trent:\r\n\r\nWould you create separate formations of MPs, or increase the size/number of MP units organic to combat formations?\r\n\r\nMy guess would be separate formations-would they also have their own aviation/armor? Or just a few Bradley units? ','2003-06-20 14:20:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3770,1,3631,'65.179.137.52','Don','nukday@earthlink.net','','The American military authority also ignors the use of locales in the process. Some of the heavy lifting can be filled locally. The old Roman concept of Auxillia or the French Foreign Legion, and even the American experience as seen in the use of Apache Scouts in the Southwest Indian campaigns or the mountain tribes of Vietnam, can provide the manpower right in the area where it is needed. The American forces are capable of providing cadre now. It\'s only the willingness to carry it out that deprives the force structure of the manpower. It\'s just not combat power. Several of the WWII Free Pole units, unable to return to Soviet occupied Poland, morphed into labor battalions in Germany after the hostilities.','2003-06-20 14:20:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3776,1,3021,'67.225.186.176','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Xavier, the problem that many of us have with being lectured by you all is that while you\'re happy to point to examples of American bad acting in international affairs, you all act as if, say, the French never supported any dictatorships in the Middle East or Africa, propped them up, supplied them with arms and nuclear programs (but enough about Chirac\'s relationship with Saddam Hussein), and the like.\r\n\r\nAt least we tend to want to get rid of \"ours\" (like Ferdinand Marcos in the Phillipines, which is now a fairly stable democratic Republic, or in South Korea, or in Taiwan, or El Salvador, in Nicaragua we got rid of one of \"yours\", and the like. We deposed generals in Haiti who, frankly, would likely have been more \"friendly\" to America than Aristide, so that we could return Aristide to power, because he was elected, and the like).\r\n\r\nI\'m not sure the French have such a record. They certainly don\'t in the Middle East or Africa or in the rest of their former colonies (well, really, current colonial preserve, La Francophone and all that). You all rely on ignorance to point fingers at us, as you did with Vietnam which became a huge cause celeb of opposition to America in France during the \'60s, when the problem origniated because of, well, France (had America followed the policy that we were inclined to at the end of World War II, rather than listened to the French who wanted their colonies back, then arguably that whole mess would not have come to pass. You all leave us holding the bag in the end and then claim to be innocents. . .)\r\n\r\nYes, America has at times supported dictatorships when in our sincere (if sometimes misguided) belief the alternative would have been worse (as it ended up in Southeast Asia - more people died and were made refugees in the few years after the war ended than had during the entire decade of American involvement). France often just supports dictators because they promise to keep the French language part of the region\'s heritage. French involvement in, say, Rwanda in the \'90s was particularly despicable, and yet you condecend to us as if we\'re the source of all the world\'s problems. Then the French have the gall (gaul?) to claim to be a wronged friend, abused by America.\r\n\r\nThis is rather shameful.','2003-06-20 16:24:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3777,1,3659,'198.26.123.36','J S Allison','johnalli@swbell.net','','iirc we didn\'t go into Afghanistan with the primary goal of nation-building. We went in to remove an organization that was a demonstrable threat to our country and a pseudogovernment that provided it support. In a Realpolitik sense as long as a further threat to us does not arise there, we don\'t care. Wouldn\'t want to be accused of budding imperialism now, would we?\r\n\r\nHaving said all that, if we do try to make things \'better\' for the inhabitants it should be understood that our historical track record speaks volumes in terms of our actions towards former enemies that we\'ve beaten and our intentions for the future.','2003-06-20 16:53:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3778,1,3631,'63.189.0.128','Bart Hall (Kansas, USA)','bart.hall@prairiestarfarm.com','','Thirty years ago my brother-in-law made an important observation ... \"The US has got to decide whether we are going to be an imperial power, and if the answer is yes, we\'d damned well better get *good* at it.\"\r\n\r\nHistory has forced us into a quasi-imperialism by default, the secular-socialist nations being financially unable to act effectively against the bad guys that their world-view refuses to admit exist.\r\n\r\nThe Jeffersonian isolationist response, while probably tenable for the US for a few generations would almost certainly prove disastrous for the rest of the world, even, perhaps, generating greater anti-Americanism than is now the case --- the gulf between America and The Others having widened substantially.\r\n\r\nUnfortunately, two specific US administrations -- one post-VietNam and the other post-Gulf War -- drastically (and intentionally) undermined three of the most important elements of effective imperialism: security, intel, and covert/special ops.\r\n\r\nEffective imperialism does not require that you be *liked,* only feared and respected. \'Liking\' is a very volatile, temporary, and highly unreliable emotion, nearly useless in international relationships. It is here that the Left has gone so very wrong.\r\n\r\nFear and/or respect, however, are much more durable motivators. I think we\'ve been altogether too \"nice\" in the past generation or so, for little benefit and much grief.\r\n\r\nEffective imperialist nation-building (and that is what we are attempting in Iraq) probably requires niceness backed up by fear and respect. I suspect that our lack of MPs, combined with weak intel and overstretched special ops, is going to make the task in Iraq rather more difficult than it might otherwise have been.\r\n\r\nJust as we had to delay the Iraq Campaign while we restocked on ALCMs and JDAMs -- to say nothing of basic spare parts -- we have some serious staffing, training, and retention challenges ahead of us before we can effectively carry the Terror War to some of the places (Libya, Sudan, etc) that it needs to go. That will take another 4 to 12 years under an administration dedicated to getting the job done.\r\n\r\nEven so, the task is daunting. In the end we have to sanitize and reform a culture with no theology of suffering other than revenge, and which has translated fewer books into Arabic in the last 1000 years than Spain translates into Spanish in a single year.\r\n\r\nOrder first. Then law. Not easy, but not impossible. And we\'d had indeed better get good at it, because the alternatives to our present default-imperialism are not at all pleasant to contemplate.','2003-06-20 17:16:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3779,1,3631,'66.13.162.166','Lloyd','Lloyd.Albano@hemetinvestments.com','','A much needed review. Outstanding stuff. I forwarded this to Den Beste and Kaus. ','2003-06-20 17:19:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3780,1,3631,'198.26.123.36','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Phil, \r\n\r\nThe Military police were supposed to handle the \"Rear Battle\" under the old Cold War doctrine. That included the full range of Spetnaz and paratroop assaults of up to a dismounted company in size. The divisional M.P.s handled the division rear area and seperate M.P. battalions and brigades handled Corps and Army group rear areas.\r\n\r\nTher mission in Iraq calls for more than just MPs. Iraq can eat the entire active and reserve civil affairs force structure full time by itself.\r\n\r\nWe need Signals units to reestablish basic telecommunication infrastructure and to over see contractors in the long haul.\r\n\r\nMedical units will be needed to evaluate and establish goals for Iraqi medical needs.\r\n\r\nMilitary civil engineering will be required everywhere because Military engineers can take care of themselves in uncertain security situations over the long haul in a way contractors will not.\r\n\r\nQuartermasters will be needed to supply all of this and transportation units will be needed for those uncertainly secured area transportation.\r\n\r\nShinseki kept pushing for more combat troops when what we really needed was \"Tail\" and not more combat animal \"Teeth.\"\r\n\r\nRumsfeld rightly ignored him.\r\n\r\nWe don\'t need \"Supertroopers\" in Iraq. \r\n\r\nWe need \"Garri-troopers.\"\r\n\r\nRumsfelds malign influence in Iraq is his resistance to establishing a McArthur-like \"Shoganate\" that is directly responsible to the President.This is what we did with both Japan and Germany. \r\n\r\nThese \"Governors-General\" were overseen by the Joint Chiefs for day-to-day policy and operations questions.\r\n\r\nRumsfeld\'s problem is that he does not trust the Joint Chiefs to do this job and won\'t let anyone else do it.\r\n\r\nThis issue can only be resolved by President Bush.\r\n\r\nBush should appoint a Governor-General answerable to him and establish an oversight board made up of Jim Baker as chair , VP Cheney, one or more retired generals Rummie trusts, and a senior level State Department official Collen Powell trusts.\r\n\r\nThis would answer Bush\'s problems of getting them mission done without to much impact on his limited span of control.','2003-06-20 17:23:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3781,1,3631,'165.121.209.185','Rick','rkirka@nospam.net','','The first two-thirds of your article is great, Trent. The last third is on shakier ground, because there are far more political considerations in the mix. For one thing, it won\'t help to bash Democrats, even though what you said is true. Some truths can\'t be handled yet.\r\n\r\nThe problems you discuss have deep roots. The \"killer hardware\" and the troops that use it have a great attraction to the military brass, because it\'s what they professionally grew up with, and is usually the path of career advancement. Except Artillery, which is a semi-poor relation to the flashy stuff. These are also the things the politicians on both side of the question like for photo ops. \r\n\r\nAssuming accelerated technical advancement, which I think is reasonable, the biggest problem is that the military is being unintentionally transformed into something that nobody quite grasps. It will be a bigger disparity than Maxim guns vs spears. I wouldn\'t compare it, yet, to \"Martians vs. British Army\", but more like the scene in \"Robocop\" where he strolls through the drug lab. \r\n\r\nThe only physical constraint on these transformations will be a constantly-shrinking military budget. The intellectual constraint comes from not recognizing what the changes mean, and how to capitalize on them. \r\n\r\nJapan could do it, but there is no will. Europe certainly could, but they\'ve rejected the process. China most certainly wants a similar transformation, but it is questionable whether they can pull it off with the overall backwardness of most of their society, and the criminal greed of their princelings.','2003-06-20 17:33:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3782,1,3631,'216.178.85.27','Jon Acheson','acheson@nospam.rcn.com','','What are the chances of being able to recruit Afghan troops as peacekeepers? It would give us more manpower, and alleviate the Afghans\' problem of too many ex-soldiers with nothing to do.\r\n\r\nIf you gave them the equivalent of a GI bill that promised schooling at local universities, they\'d probably jump at it.','2003-06-20 17:44:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3783,1,3654,'67.75.198.247','Lucky','rrpryne@earthlink.net','','Take the San Diego FW south to Newport Beach Fw. Go to Newport Beach, near McFadden Pier, and have pizza at Steves Original Pizza. The place is unchanged in the 30 yrs I\'ve been going. No shirt, No shoes welcomed. Get a cheese pizza. load it up with extra parmesan and oregano and eat the cheese topping. Then reload with more parmesan and oregano and finish the crust. Go for lunch and enjoy beach girls while you relax on the beach. Then body surf some or walk to the back bay for a casual swim. Finish with cold ones at Blackies around the corner.','2003-06-20 17:51:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3784,1,3631,'208.251.221.13','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://www.overpressure.com','Pardon my rambling - lost of thoughts here. I\'ll probably sharpen this up as a post over on overpressure.com later.\r\n\r\nI don\'t see the \"chaos in Iraq\" problem as Rummy\'s fault.\r\n\r\nThe no occupation force policy is not the result of Rummy not trusting the JCS - the problem is that we went into Iraq as liberators, not conquerors. \r\n\r\nExcept we had to conquer it, not liberate it, because it was an internal, not external power.\r\n\r\nThe US is accused of imperialism - and we are assuredly NOT an empire - so we have to prove that we aren\'t. So we aren\'t occupying Afghanistan and Iraq. That comes from the President. So yes, he\'s the only person that could make that call. But let Dean or Kerry get a hold of that. \"I thought we were liberators, not conquerors!\"\r\n\r\nAs for how many troops it takes to do stuff, the size of our military is capped by law. The Congress would have to change the size of the military, and choose to fund it. The inclination to do either of these is non-existent - even among those who say our troops are overstretched or those who say we need a draft. \r\n\r\nThe Army has not been in the occupation business for about 50 years. It is simply not organized to do it. After WWII, we had to change organizations from combat commands to occupation commands. We won\'t be doing it for Iraq, so we have the combat organizations to work with. Large support troop organizations outside of the divisions are largely notional and populated by reserve and guard units - we have some 70,000 folks on active duty from guard and reserve now - are we willing to activate another 100 or 200k? \r\n\r\nThat is why we are working on freeing up our European and Asian commitments (and Saudi as well). If we take these static requirements off the table, we handle it demand-side, not supply-side. ','2003-06-20 18:13:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3785,1,3226,'128.173.191.16','chris hall','cdhall@vt.edu','http://www.aoe.vt.edu/~cdhall/Space','Beautiful slide show. Thanks for pointing me to it. Shame ~American Patriot had to spoil it.\r\n\r\nChris','2003-06-20 18:18:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3786,1,3631,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','Blaster,\r\n\r\nTrent\'s point about Rumsfeld is that his empire-building is perpetuating disorder in Iraq, and delaying its reconstruction, not that Rumsfeld is responsible for creating the disorder. Iraq caused the disorder.\r\n\r\nWe need one man in charge to speed the recovery. Rumsfeld and just about every other faction don\'t want one man in charge unless it\'s their guy and they own him, i.e., they don\'t want one guy in charge. This is how power games work, and it isn\'t intentional.\r\n\r\nPresident Franklin Roosevelt had the same problem with the economy/military production in World War Two, and things just muddled through until FDR finally put one of his best and most trusted operatives, Jimmy Byrnes, in charge.\r\n\r\nAn alternative is to use someone with less actual independent power (though apparent total idependent power) who is subject to close supervision by a trusted committee. Trent notes that this was done in Japan after World War Two, and named potential members of such a committee for Iraq.\r\n\r\nBoth should work, but both require President Bush to make a command decision here, and he don\'wanna. The person to blame is him.','2003-06-20 18:36:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3787,1,3658,'66.163.1.73','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','He lives in France. As for the blog part, I think we may be about to solve that...','2003-06-20 18:44:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3788,1,3631,'208.251.221.13','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://www.overpressure.com','I think Rumsfeld is resistant to turnover to someone who is going to eff it all up. His Department won a great victory - he is not interested in watching the Arabists in States throw it away.\r\n\r\nBremer comes out of State, but Rumsfeld supports him. Why? Because he won\'t lose it the way Bodine would have. \r\n\r\nAnd Rummy doesn\'t oppose a Shogunate - I bet he would prefer to have Abizaid in one of Saddam\'s palaces than wht we are doing now.\r\n\r\nBut again, that\'s the President\'s call. And he is constrained by way more than not wanting to make the call. I bet he\'d rather see Abizaid there, too.\r\n\r\nWe will continue to see this issue come up. We have to be prepared for Iran, because when it falls, it will have partly been because we pushed. And we won\'t have divisions there.\r\n\r\nThis nation-to-nation stuff is rightly the purview of State, but State will hose it. (Not because Powell is a squish, but because basically State is full of Commies still.) \r\n\r\nThat is what needs to get fixed. ','2003-06-20 19:05:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3789,1,3631,'64.73.73.18','SparcVark','lanzknecht@hotmail.com','',' Trent makes a great case here for some kind of parallel force structure for occupational duties. The strange thing, to me at least, is that an occupational division would be much more manpower-heavy than an equivalent \"assault\" division. All the gee-whiz stuff streaming out of various DARPA and other projects - Land Warrior, assorted exoskeletons, UCAV, \"brilliant\" weapons - reduces the number of soldiers required to destroy hostile organized forces.\r\n\r\n Still, occupation and pacification remains time-consuming, dangerous, and requires well-trained humans to do properly.\r\n\r\n This is a brainfull, and I\'m not sure it all makes sense, but I can see the Army splitting into \"Assault\" and \"Occupation\" formations in the future, maybe combined with the Air Force splitting up into a number of function-based services or losing functions like CAS.\r\n\r\n Plenty to think about.','2003-06-20 19:42:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3790,1,3631,'152.163.253.3','Frank P','lawguy2003@yahoo.com','http://www.lawguy.blogspot.com/','With respect to the role the MP\'s, there has been much debate over where the MP\'s will fit into the modern Army. In order to save the existence of MP\'s in the regular army, they took on the role of Force protection. This has over stretched the limited resources of the MP\'s in the army limiting their effectiveness in Nation building operations. Furthermore, MP\'s in Reserve elements are stretched thin fulfilling the US\'s obligations in Bosnia. What is need is a specialized detachment of MP\'s that are trained to deal specifically Nation Building operations. The Combat elements, however, are not willing to take back the role of force protection nor the MP\'s willing to give up that role in fear that budget will be cut. \r\n\r\nhttp://www.lawguy.blogspot.com/\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-06-20 19:53:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3791,1,3631,'192.45.72.26','Karl Gallagher','karl.gallagher@ngc.com','','We need more troops, definitely, but I don\'t think we need a draft to get them. A serious recruiting campaign--with the President and other leaders making speeches at high schools and colleges--would turn out a lot more recruits than are coming in now. Failing that we can enlist non-citizens, but I wouldn\'t want to take anyone from the occupation zones--they have too many connections to the existing factions. If we go to the countries providing our current immigration and promise citizenship after a five-year hitch we\'d get plenty of volunteers. The Army probably has enough Spanish-speakers already to provide cadre for a division at least.','2003-06-20 20:09:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3792,1,3631,'155.13.48.17','Steve','steve@steveverdon.com','http://www.steveverdon.com','A nitpick first. Its inflection point, not deflection point. An inflection point is where the curve changes from concex to concave or vice-a-versa.\r\n\r\nAs for the draft....why? It isn\'t necessarily cheaper. While you only pay them a pitience you have opportunity costs (i.e. not they are working at whatever you are forcing them to work at, which you clearly value less than whatever else they could be working at...and making more money at).\r\n\r\nThere is not really any savings in the draft except in a limited and narrow accounting sense.','2003-06-20 20:29:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3793,1,3631,'63.189.0.130','Bart Hall (Kansas, USA)','bart.hall@prairiestarfarm.com','','Draft would probably do *far* more harm than good. Draft was appropriate in the era of massed firepower and massed troops (2nd generation warfare) but is totally unsuited to the type of 4th generation conflict now current.\r\n\r\nWe need more special ops people, and the primary criterion for success is *motivation.* With draftees motivation drops off the table and the snivel factor goes through the roof.\r\n\r\nBesides, what do you do with them? Most of \'em you can\'t train to do anything important in the two years you\'ve got \'em. And most 18-year olds don\'t have any skills that matter when they come in. \r\n\r\nThere was a serious re-enlistment problem during the whole eight years we didn\'t have a commander in chief, and we\'re now paying the price of that era\'s drawdowns in ugly deployment schedules that burn our best people out.\r\n\r\nI think there\'s a quiet crisis out there at the E-5 and E-6 level, and if we don\'t address that crisis it\'s gonna bit us in the ass. Odds are that a draft would make things a lot worse.','2003-06-20 21:09:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3794,1,3631,'63.189.32.4','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Very thoughtful post on the whole. I had just a couple quibbles, which I posted here:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.porphyrogenitus.net/archives/week_2003_06_15.html#001418\r\n\r\n','2003-06-20 21:31:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3795,1,3631,'199.168.33.61','Robin Roberts','finalprotfire@attbi.com','','Perhaps the \"nation building\" force should be paramilitary in nature rather than Army. Build on military retirees, ex-police, ex-firefighters, construction workers, etc. with refresher training through advanced infantry tactics.','2003-06-20 21:34:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3796,1,3631,'64.73.73.18','SparcVark','lanzknecht@hotmail.com','',' That\'s a good thought, Robin, but \"Occupation\" work would also be difficult and dangerous, as evidenced by the fighting still going on in Iraq.\r\n\r\n Like the MPs Trent describes above, \"Occupation\" troops would have to be capable of fighting pitched battles on a company scale. They would have to be well trained and motivated - more than a refresher course would be required, I think.\r\n\r\n Another thing to bear in mind would be making sure that the reputation and prestige of any \"Occupation\" formations remained high, and that they would not be viewed as stepchildren to the more glamorous, respected \"Assault\" formations to the point the \"Occupation\" troops became starved for recruits. Making \"Occupation\" duty attractive would be quite the tough sell.','2003-06-20 21:59:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3797,1,3631,'68.73.80.209','Dave Himrich','dghimrich@sbcglobal.net','','It\'s interesting that \"Rear Battle\" doctrine comes up in the comments here. I don\'t think the Army has updated the primary Field Manual from the one that was in use when I got out of the National Guard in 1992. But the basic framework seemed sound, and the heavy lifting was mostly to be done by Engineer and MP units. Maybe they need to form brigades of primarily MPs and Engineers to pull occupation duty. I was an Engineer officer, so of course that sounds kind of cool to me. They could have formed these from Reserve Component units at one time, but as someone observed above, many of those are gone now. It would have been most unpopular, anyway. I don\'t quite see why a draft would be an advantage over recruiting for them, although it would be expensive in either case. Maybe some Foreign Legion-type entity is called for.','2003-06-20 22:08:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3798,1,3631,'66.213.114.164','Tresho','adembinski@att.net','','The current US leadership seems pretty good at toppling unfriendly regimes with a minimum of damage, but p***-poor at nation-building. They\'re not all that effective at domestic anti-terror measures, either. ','2003-06-20 22:22:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3799,1,3631,'68.49.135.64','David Foster','photoncourier@yahoo.com','http://photoncourier.blogspot.com','We need lots of people who can do things like fix power plants, phone systems, and rail networks. Contractors are fine for big, long-term efforts, but they aren\'t the right way to go for rapid response under insecure conditions. Perhaps a major increase in the size and mission definition of the Army Engineers would be the best approach.\r\n\r\nWe also need to give troop commanders more financial resources in working with and supporting civilian neighborhoods. Glenn Reynolds has a post up about some very laudable initiatives that a unit is trying to carry out; however, they can\'t get the small amount of $ that the need to be really effective.','2003-06-20 22:24:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3800,1,3659,'66.213.114.164','Tresho','not@hotmail.com','','The US abandoned Afghanistan to its own devices after the USSR pulled out in the early 1980\'s and the Taliban appeared and filled in the gap. Afghanistan appears to be on the brink on the same process all over again, with Taliban: the Next Generation, in production.','2003-06-20 22:26:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3801,1,3631,'209.195.63.179','Vidya','vidya@home.com','','Excellent article! The bottomline is \"a different capability is required for nation building, peace keeping type roles\". Fortunately, this type of force does not need expensive \"killer\" training (though they need training with respect to dealing with hostile civilians, armed resistance, etc. Do what the American private sector does!\r\n\r\nOutsource to offshore \"contractors\"!! Not literally, but see what is happening in the IT and some manufacturing industries. What we need is large number of trained men. Draft is NOT cheap and is counter-productive for various reasons. Ask (and pay) several 3rd world, neutral countries to contribute forces. In the case of Iraq, it is better to go with Muslim countries such as Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malasia, and even Afghan as another comment suggested. US can pay these soldiers their native wages (much cheaper than American salaries) and hardship allowance or something. They have the men and we have the resources & leadership. Sometimes it works better if the UN is the label on their uniforms, but this is the best option to pursue.','2003-06-20 22:42:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3802,1,3631,'198.26.123.36','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Porphyrogenitus,\r\n\r\n The US Army is taking 2-year enlistees because it is short of bodies. We are 3/4 of the way towards a draft right now. They haven\'t cut standards such that they are taking more catagory IV troopers...yet.\r\n\r\n Please also remember that the British carefully retrain their combat forces before a peace keeping rotation and then retrain them again back to the combat role afterwards. A draftee garrison/occupation force would be only trained once. \r\n\r\n The issue is how long to keep in the draftees in their term of service (at least 3 years, IMO) and how large a cadre of long service professional officers and NCOs would be used to create it.\r\n\r\n A standing 150,000 man Iraq occupation force means 450,000 total people based on rotation or troops in and out of theater.\r\n\r\n The current active duty US Army strength is 480,000 men. The 1980\'s Cold War strength peak was 780,000. Totaling 480,000 and 450,000 pushes us into the one million man army range.\r\n\r\n I see no alternative to the draft, if only to lower personnel costs to managable proportions.\r\n\r\n The best is the enemy of the good enough and we do not have the time to train up enough long service professionals for the mission.\r\n\r\n Training up this occupation force will defacto cut our combat forces from ten division to eight simply from the cadre we need from the standing forces to fill out the draftee formation\'s leadership slots.\r\n\r\n The answer to the overstretch of our combat forces is to withdraw from South Korea. We are not wanted there and with the defacto collapse of the North Korean state means we are no longer needed either.','2003-06-20 22:53:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3803,1,3631,'12.203.229.114','ErikZ','ezolan@ezolan.com','','\r\nHonestly, what country is good at nation building? I can\'t imagine doing what needs to be done under the glare of the supercritial media.\r\n','2003-06-20 22:59:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3804,1,3631,'172.201.157.217','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','obviously the lack of support troops is a very big problem, but the draft is now a good answer. the cost of making the draft work for us would outpace any benefit from having support troops in the first place. while you have written a very good overview of our current military situation, its important to recognize when you simply dont have an answer for a question yet and to not make leaps with your writing that will diminish the value of the rest of what you have said.\r\n\r\ni honestly do not yet know what the best choice for dealing with our military support problem would be. i have heard a few shreds of ideas in various places that could turn into something, but i just dont think weve found a solution yet. \r\n\r\ni agree with you that rumsfelds approach to iraq is missing a few pieces to hammer the victory home, but i also think you shouldnt jump to the conclusion that iraq wont work out on its own better than we currently think. if we end up lucky enough for iraq to work without those support troops we are all talking about, we might just be able to come up with a better solution by the next time we need one. \r\n\r\none question i havent seen answered fully is just what happens to all those troops we now use for combat if we keep achieving orders of magnitude of higher combat effectiveness with fewer and fewer troops... why wouldnt we simply be able to shift future training for the large number of former combat troops into victory and post victory support roles?\r\n\r\nalso, i think you overestimate how many places our extended military presense will be needed on a large scale. we are pulling out of saudi arabia, reorganizing in europe and east asia, and must be in an endgame with north korea for our sake as well as everyone elses. if north korea collapses, american occupation will not be needed. the south will be our support troops while we coordinate. something very close to the same could be said for iran if the theocracy is overthrown from within. in iran, unlike in iraq, their own population would be more likely to rise to the challenge of forming their own new government. if we succeed in north korea, iran, afghanistan (which will take some more than we are doing now.. but not a whole lot), and iraq, just what locations do you expect such massive numbers of support troops being needed that it would make you think for even a moment of instituting a draft?','2003-06-20 23:00:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3805,1,3631,'172.201.157.217','balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://http//www.yrnyc.org','of course the second i posted the above i saw a typo that i really should have caught. \r\n\r\n\"but the draft is now a good answer.\" \r\n\r\nthat should obviously say \"the draft is *not* a good answer\"\r\n\r\n','2003-06-20 23:04:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3806,1,3631,'198.26.123.36','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','SparcVark,\r\n\r\n The Land warrior system interfaced/networked with facial identification programs, arabic-english translation programs, low level UAVs and modern passive millimeter wave sensors for hidden gun/RPG detection holds great promise for reducing the number of bodies needed for population control missions.\r\n\r\n \"Americans love the technological solution.\"\r\n\r\nSteve,\r\n\r\n The inflection/deflection nit has been picked.\r\n\r\nVidya,\r\n\r\n The planning was to use the Turks as a part of the post-war Iraq occupation force. That failed miserably.\r\n\r\n Remember this contracting out to 3rd world/european militaries idea was tried in Somalia with less than stellar results. The Pakistanis were incompetent and the Italians were passing intelligence to Aideed. That is why we brought in the Rangers in the first place.\r\n\r\n So if we can\'t trust the 3rd worlders or Europeans, who is left? \r\n\r\nThe Brits and Aussies are in leaker boats than we are in terms of force structure.\r\n\r\n\r\nBalagan,\r\n\r\n I don\'t see the Iranian Mullahs falling without an outside American military push, even if only symbolic or \"black.\"\r\n\r\n The War on Terrorism will not end with the current axis of evil. Syria, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are all on the \"to do\" list.\r\n\r\n There are 150 million Pakistanis that the Indian Army wants no part of any more than the Turks did 2 million Iraqi Kurds.','2003-06-20 23:24:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3807,1,3631,'216.250.33.131','Ralph','rtacoma@allwest.net','','The analysis of the overall force structure is a fascinating topic and I agree that Trent has done a great job of laying out the issues even if I don\'t completely agree with him on his conclusions --- which is not surprising given how complex the issue is in total\r\n\r\nFor now though, I just want to suggest that in the process of coming to conclusions about what is going on in Iraq, we need to avoid \"jumping to them.\" Even though many of us have made acerbic, though quite valid in my opinion, comments about how quickly the press has over-reacted to individual incidents in Iraq, I think that in this age of nearly instantaneous communication we are all often guilty of the same thing. Iraq is quite large, and reasonably populous. It\'s by no means clear to me that things would be moving significantly better and/or faster even IF we could commit another 100,000 line of communications troops at this time. They may very well still be needed, and it would be much better if we had them available, but even another 100,000 troops would be a small number in comparision with the population.\r\n\r\nIf we committed much larger resources right now, I personally doubt that they would be effective since we\'re still really fully defining the problems. Anyone who has ever worked on a large engineering project (even one far smaller that the scale of what\'s required to deal with Iraq) is aware of how important it is to fully define the problem if you are to be effective. That\'s not to say that you can\'t start \"muddling in the right direction\" and refine things as you go along, but you need to be careful that the things that you are doing are not actually making the problem worse. \r\n\r\nAt this stage of the game, I think that the questions about how effective we\'re being are very valid and appropriate, but I DO NOT believe that we know enough to really come to conclusions yet. \r\n\r\nThink of the sheer difficulty one would face if one had to restore the water supply system in New York City if it were not working after a war, or natural disaster, and you were starting out as unfamiliar with the system as we must inherently be with the systems in Iraq. Simply figuring out what needed to be done is a MAJOR task. \r\n\r\nThe fairly large number of reports, even though not particularly highlighted in the press, showing significant portions of Iraq are already in better condition than they were BEFORE the \r\nwar suggest to me that we\'re really not doing such a bad job right now. Remember, it\'s just barely over two months since the \"statue fell.\"\r\n\r\nSaddam had 30 years to screw up Iraq; we can\'t make it \"right\" in 30 weeks. (though, of course, we want to get as close to that as we can.)\r\n\r\nI really suspect that things were at least as screwed up in Germany and Japan 60 days after their surrender and there were far greater resourcees available at the time.\r\n\r\nBy this I\'m not meaning to suggest that we should be questioning how we can \"do it better,\" but just pointing out that we need to include a LARGE \"grain of salt\" in our confidence in our own conclusions at this time. We need to remember that our conclusions are very definitely \"PRELIMINARY\" and will be for some time yet.\r\n\r\nThanks for the GREAT commentaries.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-20 23:26:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3808,1,3631,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','Ralph,\r\n\r\nA lot of our problems in Iraq are caused by enemy action - the enemies being principally Saudi and Iranian theocrats. W and company need further education, at the expense of our troops and Iraqi civilians, concerning the former.','2003-06-21 00:12:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3809,1,3612,'217.185.237.188','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\n\"U.S. stands shoulder-to-shoulder with \'Old Europe\' in Afghanistan\"\r\n\r\nreading this should give insight in the real goal in \'old-europe\'s policy and honesty. it is not to confront the US, but helping them on their way against global threats - as long there is a minimum of unaviodable rules, and we can see both sides of the atlantic are willing to pull on the same end.\r\nthis is neccesary if the western world wants to gain a stable and humane world in a century where different threats to our security, democracy and to humanity in general arise.\r\nbeeing allied, and beeing in a partnership means giving and taking from each other and it means critizing each other and it means to hear to the demands of each other.\r\npre-iraq war this rules where broken by each side of transatlantic partnership. to develop a future in peace and democracy means to reestablish this alliance and to reestablish this rules.\r\n\r\na future in peace duns to standing together and pulling on the same end. perhaps we are really in a tug of war between humanity and \'bad philosophy\' - this would demand standing together at the right side of the rope.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-21 00:26:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3810,1,3659,'217.185.237.188','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\n\"In a Realpolitik sense as long as a further threat to us does not arise there, we don\'t care.\"\r\n\r\nthe US tried this tactic 15 years ago.\r\nthe result was the arose of an imminent and lethal threat. you should not try to repeat this tactic.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-21 00:26:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3811,1,3658,'217.185.237.188','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\"But on its face, the request to delay publication until the trial is complete - ostensibly to improve the chances of a fair trial - doesn\'t seem outrageously repressive to me.\"\r\n\r\ni like to see some realistic analysis about french policy.\r\nthere are things to critize, and to do this is the best and most neccessary thing in a democracy, but this should not include unrealistic, biased \'bashing\'.\r\n\r\neven if i personal thing it is questionable to delay the publication of this book (simply because i am one of those old-fashioned that think _every_ information should be free, at every time and place) it is notable and acceptable that there are reasons for this and there is quite a mount of honesty in doing this.\r\n\r\nafter reading some unrealistic and unjustified critic it is notable to see some critical, but realistic views on french policy. i seem to like your blog more and more by every day. (at least because of the good discussions).\r\n','2003-06-21 00:27:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3812,1,3555,'64.173.241.66','Tladatsi','dkimbrough@clwa.org','','Well that is all very interesting, the original article and the postings. However everyone has missed two key points.\r\n\r\n1) Sadam benefited by having the world believe he had WMD. Everyone knew that had had them at one point and that he had used them. So even if he didn\'t have them, if everyone thought he did, why it is every bit as good as actually having them. So no one wanted to mess with Sadam, he had WMDs. (Is that a gun in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?)\r\n\r\n2) Lots of leaders other than GW Bush thought Sadam had WMD. However none of them thought it was enough of a threat to start a major war. Only GWB (and his side-kick Tony Blair) thought Saddam\'s WMD were a \"clear and present danger\" and worrysome enough of a threat to justify killing thousands of people. \r\n\r\nSo the question is not what evidence did those two have that Saddam had WMD, but what evidence did they have that the WMD were of such immediate threat that the UN weapons inspectors could not be allowed to complete their tasks?','2003-06-21 01:56:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3813,1,3653,'67.162.246.148','Jennie Taliaferro','JenLArt@comcast.net','http://www.greatestjeneration.com','Joe, terrific idea!\r\nCount me and Greatest Jeneration in!\r\nI\'ll make a post about WoC being Iranian BlogBurst HQ as soon as I can.\r\nDon\'t forget to let Glenn \"Mac\" Frazier know--he\'s been blogging his heart out about Iran for a long time.\r\nCheers, guys!','2003-06-21 05:48:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3814,1,3555,'65.95.81.195','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','No, that\'s a completely idiotic question based on premises known not to be true.\r\n\r\nThe weapons inspectors could not complete their tasks, since Saddam (unlike, say, South Africa) was not cooperating. There goes your premise... but the rest nicely illustrates why the Left is being listened to less and less in the USA.\r\n\r\nWhy go in? \"Probable cause\". That\'s all you need to secure entry (and shoot your way in, if resisted) even as a policeman under the rule of law. Which does NOT characterize the international order - it is an anarchy, and thus the rules are \"Wild West.\" As one sees all over the globe, if one looks at the actions and not the words of the major states opposing the Iraq war.\r\n\r\nBush & co. had probable cause - as you admit. 9/11 changed Americans\' beliefs, which changed public willingness to remove the threat before it became a problem. There isn\'t even a valid legal counterargument, since the cease-fire no longer applied given that its terms had been breached by Saddam. Hence America was at war, and it chose to pursue that by actively going to war in Iraq with consistent majority support and a Congressional resolution.\r\n\r\nActing on the international stage, a resolution of Congress is all the USA needs. Did others believe there were sufficient grounds? Yes, about 30+ other countries did, which is why they signed on to the war. Your point #2 is so transparently untrue that it removes you as a rational debating opponent: Britain, Australia, Poland were all very much a part of this war, as were others.\r\n\r\nWhich brings us to the final problem: point #2 is irrelevant anyway. No other nation has to agree. Once a Congressional resolution is passed, the USA need not justify its actions to anybody at all unless your leaders decide to do so for operational reasons.\r\n\r\nWelcome to reality. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.','2003-06-21 06:53:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3815,1,3660,'65.95.81.195','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Anyone with the \"Clinton\" surname seems to have a similar effect on your Republicans. Still, being in power seems to have nostly cured them - and perhaps some huffing over Hillary\'s book will serve as an innoculation against future outbreaks. \r\n\r\nMeanwhile, McArdle\'s Law wins again. ','2003-06-21 07:09:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3816,1,3631,'67.73.22.229','Louis Wheeler','lwheeler@highstream.net','','I think you are missing something; whether we are perceived as an empire depends on what we leave behind us. Will Iraq become a friend and a trading partner or a captive after the occupation? I am betting on the former.\r\n\r\nIn the meantime, we have a mess; how do we inculcate freedom, independence, competence and self discipline in a country where those values were systematically denigrated? There are hopeful signs: local self government is popping up in Baghdad in response to the civil disorder. The local groups are supposed to have a city wide meeting in July. Out of this could come legitimate government. It is far better that the Iraqi\'s do this themselves than for us to impose it by force.\r\n\r\nNext, we don\'t need a draft. What we need is an effective Iraqi army (and police force) to leave behind us. Arabs don\'t have ineffective fighting forces because they are cowards; they have them because they are improperly lead. All their incentives are wrong. Arabs are good soldiers in our army. There are between 300 and 400 thousand soldiers out of work. Very few of them were Ba\'athists and those can be eliminated. Volunteer Iraqi soldiers staffed with American NCO\'s and officers would be very effective at quelling rebellion and would be popular with the citizenry. If we intend to leave behind us a democracy, it must be able to defend itself. The sooner we build an army loyal to Iraq, and its friend and ally America, the better.','2003-06-21 07:34:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3817,1,3660,'64.233.66.58','John','wonderbingo@yahoo.com','','Well, all those people hating Clinton certainly didn\'t cost him any elections. It did cost the Democrats control of Congress, however. I wonder if Bush will have the same effect?','2003-06-21 08:34:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3818,1,3649,'64.233.66.58','John','wonderbingo@yahoo.com','','On the Rosenbergs- the equivilant modern example would be if they had given the atomic bomb to Iraq. Actually, it was worse because the USSR was far more powerful and better able to make use of their espionage. It still amazes me that so many people give the Communists such a free pass. \r\n\r\nOther blind spots of note: Fidel Castro, Any Chinese Leader, the Mullahs in Iran, Africa (the whole continent), Any Marxist Terrorist (not so much anymore, since the USSR went away), Yasser you-know-who, France (ELF, the Congo, the odd crack down on the Iranian opposition), Wacky Oil Conspiracy Theories (where\'s the Afghan pipeline, Mr. Vidal, Chomsky, et al? It\'s been almost two years! And, going back a bit, where\'s the pipeline through Albania? Inquiring minds want to know), FARC, UN peackeeping missions that don\'t include the US (ever hear of UNPROFOR?), farm subsidies, free trade (OUR tariffs), and I could go on. For equal time- \r\nBhopal (corporations can do bad things in the third world), Guatamala, overfishing, past US support for various bad governments (you know who you are), Nixon going to China (we legitimized the Communists), the failure to overthrow Saddam in 1991 (when we had 3 times as many troops over there), and why hasn\'t anyone gotten fired over 9/11? Kimmel got it over Pearl Harbor, and he had a better case. ','2003-06-21 09:03:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3819,1,3385,'217.128.180.15','GGonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Paris, France\r\n\r\nBeautiful sunny day in Paris today, with temperatures expected to reach the upper 70s. \r\n\r\nThis augurs well as tonight Paris celebrates that wonderful annual tradition, the \"Fête de la Musique\", held each year on the Summer solstice. The entire city is tranformed into a massive street festival with outdoor concerts, corner groups and solo acts of every musical stripe and political persuasion - even the Communist Party has its own ball! From the most famous to the most humble, there is room for everyone, and Parisians spend the night out dancing and partying.\r\n\r\nAmong the many participants will be the three kings of modern Rai music Khaled, Faudel and Rachid Taha. For those who have not heard it, Rai is a fascinating music genre that blends Arabic, Egyptian and North African themes with rythym and blues, rock and flamenco. Rai is one of the most original trends on the current \"world music\" scene (oh, how I hate that term!). The undisputed superstar is Khaled, with \"Abdelkader\" (blows you away), \"Didi\", and the famous love song \"Aicha\" (in French and Arabic), written for Khaled by the renowned and oh-so-talented French songwriter/performer Jean-Jacques Goldman, who will also be performing this evening. Another great Rai song is Rachid Taja\'s Arabo-Andalusion masterpiece \"Ya Rayah\".\r\n\r\nShould be fun.','2003-06-21 09:50:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3820,1,3631,'66.69.0.109','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Louis,\r\n\r\n What you are talking about is what the American Army did in the Philipines with the Filipino Scouts. I had a great uncle in them when the Japanese invaded in 1941 and he died in Japanese hands.\r\n\r\n The problem with that solution is the same objection some have made to a draft army, the over stretch of our mid-level NCO and officer corps. To which I will add the problem of exactly how many American NCOs and junior officers speak Arabic?','2003-06-21 14:57:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3821,1,3660,'66.69.0.109','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','John,\r\n\r\nHaving Senator Orrin Hatch has cost the Republicans any chance at a filibuster proof Senate when the Democrats go off the cliff in 2004.','2003-06-21 15:11:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3822,1,3631,'68.109.209.187','Rob','robgski@hotmail.com','','Great article on many levels. Maybe I should put Bottom Line Up Front; we need more people in uniform voluntarily. It is a shame that so few of our leaders have spent time in uniform, because I firmly believe that if politicians who were veterans, as well as other prominent public figures who are veterans, were to make personal ads calling our youth to uniformed service, it would make more of an impact. I train new soldiers, most of them enlisted because they weren\'t sure what they wanted to do, but they saw that there was a need for them in the military, so they went where they were needed. More people need to have that need expressed to them, cool commercials aren\'t enough.\r\n\r\nWe may not need more divisions, but we need more subordinate elements within those divisions. In the 80\'s, each division had 3 infantry/armor Brigades (plus a reserve \"round-out brigade\", each brigade had 3-5 battalions, and 3-5 line companies in each. This was pared down, after the Cold War ended, to far fewer personnel at each echelon, so that we not only cut out divisions, but we cut the number of personnel within those divisions as well.(Many reserve elements were also eliminated, further diminshing the pool of reinforcements in times of need.) If we had kept the unit manning of the \'80\'s throughout the constant deployment \'90\'s the impact would be far less. It is no stretch of truth that many servicemembers are now rotating form one hot spot long enough to do their laundry and kiss their spouse and kids before getting on a plane to another hot spot.\r\n\r\nAs for MP\'s and other support personnel, they were cut in equal measure, or shifted to the reserves, no one thought we\'d need so many on active duty, another short sighted expenditure. This impact the civilain world as more police, fire , EMT, health care, and other professionals are called to extended service away from their community. The answer is not a \"Peacekeeping Division\" however; any place that needs peacekeepers in the first place needs warriors able to fight to maintain peace if necessary. Look at how many civilian aid workers are killed in countries without a friendly military presence.\r\n\r\nCivilians already support the military in great numbers, the key point is, few civilians will willingly go into harm\'s way to provide those services in a combat environment.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-21 15:16:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3823,1,3657,'64.201.178.56','big ed','actor@dunno.com','','http://iraniangirl.blogspot.com/','2003-06-21 16:17:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3824,1,3660,'172.171.91.162','ralph phelan','ralphph@aol.com','','\"I can\'t say I like this. America needs are real opposition party to keep the Majority Party honest, most especially during a war. \"\r\n\r\nI\'m sure either the Independent Party or the Libertarians will step forward to fill the gap.','2003-06-21 16:19:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3825,1,3655,'172.171.91.162','Ralph Phelan','ralphph@aol.com','','This article would be greatly enhanced by the mugshots, just in case one of your readers happens to see any of these guys around.','2003-06-21 16:26:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3826,1,3657,'65.95.81.195','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','... is a team member right here, big ed.','2003-06-21 18:11:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3827,1,3661,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','\"God\" can be likened to a mountain peak.To reach the wisdom, comfort and serenity of God, one must climb this peak.\r\n\r\nThere are many routes to the top. For some people, only one route works for them; they may have to try (and fail) at several before finding their route.\r\n\r\nOthers try, one, or many different routes, and fail, and finally give up, saying \"there is no God\"-and sink into despair.\r\n\r\nOthers try, and fail, yet continue to seek--and in this seeking, find God (Wisdom, comfort, serenity) whether they reach to top of the peak or not.\r\n\r\nAre Sufis relativists? No- there is one deity, but many paths to reach him.\r\n\r\n-End-\r\n\r\nPS-Had no time last week to attempt last week\'s Sufi Wisdom. I did read it, and let it steep for a few days, but...\r\n\r\nPPS-tried to print the poem out, but was not readable. I had to rely on my imperfect memory.\r\n\r\nfootnote:\r\nFrom the otherwise undistinguished movie \"Remo Williams\" comes this unforgettable line:\r\n\r\nMaster Chun (Joel Grey??)-\"Perfection is a road-not a destination\"','2003-06-21 18:47:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3828,1,3661,'66.222.35.136','Ron','rpmccabe@tds.net','','Yea, probably, if they have true wisdom. One of the viewpoints that seems to be prevalent in the blogosphere is the acrimony to the concept of \"moral relativism\" and it really makes me want to rant. I understand it will take more than a few words from me to get people to understand - but the longest journey begins with one step. \r\n\r\nRelativism is the nature of Reality. Einstein discovered this on the level of physical reality. If anyone reads the great teachers of the past (with an open mind) they will discover that they all are talking about moral (spiritual) relativism. Lets look at a few words from a very popular Jew - Judge not lest ye be judged. That is just one example. Almost every Master can be found to speak of the same type of concepts, Rumi is another great one. His lines at the end of the poem are very poignant - \r\n\r\nWhen you eventually see through the veils to\r\nhow things really are, you will keep saying\r\nagain and again, \r\n\"This is certainly not like we thought it was!\"\r\n\r\nThis is a theme repeated again and again in the writings of the great Masters.\r\n\r\nA great physicist once said - the universe is not as strange as we can imagine, it is STRANGER than we CAN imagine.\r\n\r\nI understand why people are ranting against moral relativism - it seems to them that it is exploding their own worldview and that can be a scary prospect. I have found the \'Conversations with God\' series a very mind expanding set of books. I don\'t agree with every concept in them, but it certainly gives one pause to review their own worldview.\r\n\r\nThanks for a great blogsite!!\r\n\r\n','2003-06-21 18:57:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3829,1,3631,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','I think Iraq needs (at this time) both combat troops and MP/engineer types.\r\n\r\nReduce the combat troops to a rapid reaction airmobile unit, with a squadron of Warthogs and Puffs on call, maybe a few armor units on the side, and vastly increase MP/engineer formations.\r\n\r\nre: Arabic speakeing NCOs-Time to get cracking on that Universal Translator gadget.\r\n\r\nSeriously, have contractor/native interpreters while the NCOs/JR officers undergo intensive language training?\r\n\r\nI don\'t think the draft is the way to go. You may wind up with a two level military- the volunteer combat troops, who look down on the \"draftees\", while the draftees look up in resentment.\r\n\r\nWhat really makes our military strong is teamwork. Anything that damages the team spirit may/will have disasterous(sp?) consequences.','2003-06-21 19:00:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3830,1,3655,'65.28.97.15','Dan Darling','scorpius@shwiggie.com','http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com',' Good idea.\r\n\r\n Adnan el-Shukrijumah:\r\n\r\n http://www.fbi.gov/terrorinfo/adnan.htm\r\n\r\n Known members of the al-Rabeei cell:\r\n\r\n http://www.fbi.gov/terrorinfo/terseekinfo.htm\r\n\r\n ','2003-06-21 19:05:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3831,1,3661,'65.95.81.195','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Great comments. \r\n\r\nI wonder about the relativism label for the Sufis, as that\'s a very difficult fit with ethical monotheism of any sort. It\'s one thing to make a distinction between form and spirit in the experience of divine grace, and to acknowledge the limits of human comprehension and varied paths to the truth. Relativism\'s denial of the fundamental ground of truth itself, however, strikes me as a very different ball game. The 2 may look similar to casual observation, but are they?\r\n\r\nI see another angle to this poem... and here\'s where Ron & I have more common ground. Let\'s use a concrete example, too - the concept of Creationism. the common theme? Our limited comprehension of the divine, and tendency to cloak that in human-like forms. As Rumi notes:\r\n\r\n\"When you look in a mirror, you see yourself,\r\nnot the state of the mirror.\"\r\n\r\nZen thought also takes the mirror as a symbol of ultimate reality, because it reflects what IS. Yet we look at creation, and cannot help seeing ourselves.\r\n\r\nWe look at an omnipotent, omniscient being... and when we imagine creation, we imagine it like some 8 year old with a magic LEGO set. Huh? Such a being would understand and practice \"creation\" far, far beyond human comprehension, manipulating underlying forces we aren\'t aware of to produce goals whose subtlety and very nature speaks to language and concepts we don\'t have. In sum, such a being would create like G-d - not like mankind.\r\n\r\nFor me, my problem with strict creationism goes beyond science (though it includes that), and into the territory of idolatry and blashphemy.\r\n\r\nStill, it is worth applying understanding to this conduct. Applying human notions of what creation is and how it ends was appropriate to our level of understanding when the Bible was written, and some levels of explanation even today. It\'s a glimpse of the divine through the \"mirror\" that those who receive this understanding have to use. Shattering that reflection because it offends \"higher sensibilities\" was Moses\' mistake in the poem - let\'s not make it ourselves. \r\n\r\nNeither must we be bound up in that reflection\'s limitations, however. As Rumi points out:\r\n\r\n\"When you eventually see through the veils to\r\nhow things really are, you will keep saying\r\nagain and again,\r\n\"This is certainly not like we thought it was!\"\"\r\n\r\nIndeed. As Ron notes, the world is stranger than we CAN imagine.\r\n\r\nThere\'s a secondary point I see here as well, the corrective that helps keep us from making the above mistake and leaves the road open to higher possibilities:\r\n\r\n\"The flute player puts breath into a flute, \r\nand who makes the music? \r\nNot the flute. The Fluteplayer!\"\r\n\r\nThe Sufis aren\'t big on religious formalism. substitute that for \"flute\" - both are complex, fixed structures designed to take breath (spirit) and turn it into music (ecstatic union with the divine reality). Without breath, the flute is just a paperweight. Yet the flute, too, has value here, as anyone who has ever heard a good flautist can attest. \r\n\r\nThe Sufis do not denigrate the flute, simply assign it its proper place - and implicitly acknowledge that music can be made in other ways too.\r\n\r\nAs Rumi notes:\r\n\r\n\"Whenever you speak praise or thanksgiving\r\nto God, \r\nit\'s always like this dear shepherd\'s simplicity.\"\r\n\r\nSpirit first. Seeking, even \"burning\" first. Breath first. If it\'s sincere and persistent, the instrument will appear, music will follow... and we may enter into an understanding that at last transcends our human mirror, and the words we use to describe what we see in it.','2003-06-21 20:15:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3832,1,3553,'203.145.14.25','Eye Opener','okay@wethai.com','','Excellent posts, excellent thread. I\'ll come back and read more of it. \r\n\r\nIn the meantime, keep up the good work. There\'s a \'war on shoddy thinking and bad philosophy\' to be won, by Americans of all shades and hues.\r\n\r\nWe can win it, too. Don\'t need many eye openers...\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-06-21 22:31:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3833,1,3600,'64.168.244.22','Russell','mrmustard1980@yahoo.com','http://meanmrmustard.net','IIRC, squids have very different brain structures than octopi. The octopi have centralized brains, and squids have lower-order neural nets, which means no center for cognition. ','2003-06-21 22:33:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3834,1,3600,'65.95.81.195','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Interesting, wonder how that connects to their apparent signalling behaviour.','2003-06-21 22:38:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3835,1,3631,'198.108.224.168','markm','mm@xyz.com','','As a veteran who grew up in the 60\'s (and would have strongly supported the war in Vietnam if LBJ had actually been trying to win), I think the draft is simply too socially divisive, except for wars that require pretty near all the healthy young men in the country. In WWII, the draft was fairly popular because it was almost universal and the need was obvious. In Vietnam, a lot fewer men were needed, the selection process that picked a few percent for service in Nam seemed grossly unfair, and the necessity of fighting at all was arguable. Draft-dodging was dead easy if you had any money or connections at all. All it took was a cooperative doctor or psychologist, not to mention that the manpower pool was so larger the army could even reject kids for obesity that basic training itself would have solved, so more than half the kids were failing the physical. It led to a whole lot of craziness back home - I think led mainly by middle class draft-dodgers with guilty consciences. And the present nuttiness of the entire Democratic half of the political establishment is at least partly lingering effects of the Vietnam era...\r\n\r\nI\'d definitely support going after more volunteer manpower to fill the \"nation-building\" military slots, increasing the pay and benefits if needed. If there are any sane Democrats left, they should too. Military service was a road out of poverty for millions of Americans, but a tiny elite combat force reaches a lot less men and doesn\'t need to accept the more disadvantaged recruits. MP\'s, engineers, medics, etc., would need a lot of training, but generally cost far less per capita than well-equipped modern combat troops. Much of that training would be transferable to civilian jobs.\r\n\r\nJob training isn\'t the most valuable part of military service. In the last decade, I\'ve seen many young men from welfare families that lack even the basic idea that to hold a job, you\'ve got to get up every morning and get to the job on time. I wish I could get them into boot camp even for just a week, with a screaming drill sergeant overturning their bunks at 5 AM... Beyond that, all servicemen learn teamwork, following both oral and written instructions, and functioning within a heirarchy. That doesn\'t mean blind obedience (once you make it through the training), but paying attention to what you are supposed to do, doing it if possible, and knowing when and how to tell the boss that his plan needs some changes.','2003-06-22 01:01:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3836,1,3631,'172.201.157.217','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','\"I don\'t see the Iranian Mullahs falling without an outside American military push, even if only symbolic or \"black.\"\r\n\r\nThe War on Terrorism will not end with the current axis of evil. Syria, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are all on the \"to do\" list.\"\r\n\r\ntrent, i never said i thought our problems would end with the current axis of evil. i dont know why you assumed that. \r\n\r\nyou were talking specifically about massive numbers of support troops. i dont see the need for them in pakistan, saudi arabia, or syria. \r\n\r\ni think dealing with iraq, iran, afghanistan, and the israeli conflict (dismantling hamas, etc) could go a very long way to changing the calculus for syria, saudi arabia, and pakistan... as well as for the rest of our world. \r\n\r\non the iran note, we may or may not need to have special ops or black ops involvement, but again i dont see the need for the draft rationalizing massive number of support troops you were invisioning in your post. ','2003-06-22 01:40:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3837,1,3603,'207.212.109.219','Mike Daley','mikhalodalaigh@hotmail.com','','Geez,\r\nWhen will this crap about \"endangered\" species and a \"static\" environment ever end.\r\nEvery species, save man, is either extinct,due to natural causes, or endangered. Man, with his ability to control his species environment, is immune to this law. And, with this control, can temporarily decide which species can survive beyond its\'time. \r\nBut nowhere in environmental thinking do I ever see the always has been, always will be, fact; the environment changes. Without any human influence the environment of 1,000 years ago bore little resemblance to that of 100,000 years ago.\r\nThis religious like fetish that Earth\'s environment, and species, are to remain as they are now is a conceit with parallel. With or without human influence the environment will change and species will disappear.\r\nWhy do I even bother posting to a comments section?\r\nI only care about the bloggers thoughts,JK in this instance,and never read comments. Guess I just want to piss a bunch of people off.','2003-06-22 03:22:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3838,1,3631,'66.69.0.109','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Rob,\r\n\r\nMP and other support troops were cut disproportionately because the politics of the National Guard meant that Army Reserve units, where more of the units were support compared the Guard, took the hit.\r\n\r\nPhil, \r\n\r\nI was told by e-mail that we should be aiming for 2-3 COSCOMs (Corps Support Commands) and a TAACOM (Theater Army Area Command). A COSCOM is a roughly division sized force of support units and a TAACOM has several COSCOMs under it with additional support units of its own.\r\n\r\nThis is the ending text of a series of e-mails:\r\n\r\n\"That\'s right. The mix of logistics, medical, administrative and MP units that would support combat-arms forces of corps size (or theater army level) could also serve, sans combattants, as a ready-made, tailorable relief force (with the field combat units still occupying able to more fully utilize their own COSCOMs and TAACOM without hardships to our own combat troops).\"\r\n\r\nBalagan,\r\n\r\nEvents drive policy and the path to empire we are on was created by the attack on 9/11/2001.\r\n\r\nThe attacks on our troops in Iraq are supported by Syria and Iran who are acting as sanctuaries for jihadists. This will drive us to over run both, and then leave us vulnerable to the same sorts of attacks from Lebanon and Pakistan.\r\n\r\nThe jihadists we chase out of Iran and Syria will destabilized the Saudis. The end result of our controlling Iraqi and Iranian oil means we will detach the Saudi oil rich but now non-producing, mainly Shia provinces from the failed Saudi Arabian state.\r\n\r\nAll of this means we are going to need those support and population control troops and we are going to need them on a speed and scale that only a draft can provide. Whatever the political fall out from that need are.\r\n','2003-06-22 03:57:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3839,1,3663,'207.73.72.115','Dean Esmay','dean@deanesmay.com','http://www.deanesmay.com','I\'m caught halfway in that place. I know exactly what you mean by this, but I continue to find most of the things that most people enjoy to be boring and uninteresting.\r\n\r\nPerhaps I\'ll come to see it differently as I age. Part of me hopes so. My son is a constant source of joy to me, yet I find sitting around at soccer games not particularly fun--I enjoy his enjoyment, but that\'s about all, and keep hoping hell find interest in more intellectual endeavors. That\'s where his dad\'s always been, ever since he was a young boy.\r\n\r\nI\'d never pressure him in that direction, merely show him the way. I wonder at times if I\'m a bad father, because normal things like sports and socializing with neighbors mostly bores me, and I prefer solitary persuits.\r\n','2003-06-22 05:45:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3840,1,3663,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','It bored me at first as well, and I \'tolerated\' it because I wanted to be a good dad. Sounds like you do too...\r\n\r\nBut somehow I\'ve found something in it that\'s hard to explain....not impossible, I hope. \r\n\r\nAnd I\'ve come to believe that there is a philosophy and politics one can advocate that\'s based on it.\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-22 06:31:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3841,1,3660,'66.32.188.60','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Interesting choice of terms. If you wanted to make an analogy between the Democratic party\'s asserted adoption of non-violent techniques that are obviously against its own self-interest, you could have compared it to a number of other groups (say, the Green Party U.S.A.). Yet you choose to associate it with a group who has broadly supported violent, murderous terrorism.\r\n\r\nNice touch, Trent. What\'s next, Hitlery Klintoon?','2003-06-22 06:55:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3842,1,3658,'66.32.188.60','clue','clue@bcke.com','','The currently right-wing-chic anti-French hysteria is really embarrasing. If you want to point out abuses of justice, there are better examples. If you want to talk about the repression of free speech, there are better examples. If you want to address state support for terrorism, there are better examples. If you want to address diplomatic hypocrisy, there are better examples.\r\n\r\nIf you want to take cheap shots to make yourself feel better, then there\'s the French, I guess.','2003-06-22 06:58:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3843,1,3659,'66.32.188.60','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Let me chime in: J.S., for God\'s sake review how the Taliban came to power in the first place. ','2003-06-22 07:01:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3844,1,3600,'165.247.41.108','Joseph Hertzlinger','jhertzli@ix.netcom.com','http://hertzlinger.blogspot.com','Does this mean that octopi have socialist brains and squids have capitalist brains?','2003-06-22 08:24:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3845,1,3631,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','Trent,\r\n\r\nI was with you up to the point where you suggested bringing back the draft to staff an army big enough to do peacekeeping. It takes no less training to do peacekeeping than to do combat. It just takes different training. Heck, I\'d say it takes even more training to do peacekeeping because basically the peacekeepers need to know how to do police work, understand cultural differences, and know a local language. It also takes the kinds of skills that security types have who do bodyguard work. Gotta spot that nut in the crowd who wants to blow up a bunch of people. \r\n\r\nAll of that is really beyond the ability of a 19 year old to do well. He lacks the maturity, knowledge, and experience. You\'ll spend most of his two years training him. Even three years is not long enough. Then he\'ll be in the field for several months inadequately trained and then shipped home to get out once he has developed some experience. \r\n\r\nThe only way that we could get a big, well-trained, and yet cheap force would be to create a foreign legion. We could recruit our own Gurkhas. Have them serve for 10 or 15 years with a big pay-out at the end to take with them back to India. They could be trained in Arabic and other relevant languages. \r\n\r\nI agree with Brad Hall about the need for more special forces. But special forces will never be sufficient enough in number to be usable as a large occupying police force. \r\n\r\nYou can\'t have an empire on the cheap unless you are willing to have a foreign legion. We need more skilled peacekeepers just as we need more skilled fighters. ','2003-06-22 08:44:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3846,1,3663,'68.109.209.187','Rob','robgski@hotmail.com','','I know what you mean, though my children are still small, I rarely feel obliged to be there, I want to be there when something is going on. Maybe it is because I waited until I was in my 30\'s to have kids; I was finally willing to give some of my time to kids.','2003-06-22 13:53:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3847,1,3650,'63.203.96.101','Eric Pobirs','epobirs@pacbell.net','','Criticizing Sharon this only a few months after our own military attempted the assassination by cruise missile of the head of a sovereign nation is hypocritical at best. Personally, I hope Saddam and his sons were blown into tiny dictator bits but how is this justified and not the attempt to do the same to a leader of a group we ourselves classify as a major terrorist group?\r\n\r\nThe idea that there can be anything like a peace process while people like Rantisi are still drawing breath is the single greatest impediment to anything meaningful ever happening. Cut off all of Hamas funds would involve collapsing so many government and organizations that it would surely be cheaper to simply kill off the organizers. Without these leader the rank and file of assorted Palestinian terror gangs cannot long stand against a legitimate government. Of course, the first step in creating a legit government for them is to remove Arafat and anyone connected to him and PLO/Fatah and all their offshoots from any role in power. They can retire and live in peace or die. They cannot be the basis of a government that isn\'t simply a revived \'destroy Israel\' PLO.\r\n\r\nIsrael itself had these sorts of problems early on with internal factions among the Zionists fighting among themselves and vying for control but the got that sorted out pretty quick. THe Palestinians are nowhere near even attempting such because almost noone in power is sincere about peace as viewed by a Western perspective.','2003-06-22 14:03:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3848,1,3663,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Dean/A.L.\r\n\r\nI think you are both describing feelngs that all parents go through. I have two girls, 11 and 16, but the issues are similar.\r\n\r\nWhen they were younger, I too resented going to the Grade 1-6 concerts, where every song grated on ears used to listening to CD quality sound produced by professional musicians.\r\n\r\nThat started to change when I noticed the effects on them when the grandparents did or did not show up. I got to thinking, \"How would they react if Mom and/or Dad were no-shows\"? This could be seen in the faces of kids whose parents did NOT show.\r\n\r\nThe conscious decision to start a family is usually accompanied by much soul searching and introspection, and the realization that another entity will have future claim on your time. The days of all fun and play are over! Unfortunately, not every parent reaches, or maintains, this feeling of responsibility.\r\n\r\nThe events are still boring on one level, but on the deeper level of raising a child to take his/her place as a considerate, responsible adult to take YOUR place in society, this boredom is replaced by a deep and satisfying sense of pride and joy that \"Yes, I have taken on the ultimate responsibility (raising the next generation) and am succeeding.\"\r\n\r\nThis becomes especially prominent as they get older, and you see them acting in more adult ways (debate teams, high school sports, field trips to faraway locations [the 16 y/o went to France in April 2003]) the boredom is completely overcome.\r\n\r\nAs for \"pressuring\" a child?? Forget it! It is guaranteed that if you try to force your child in a particular direction, the child will go in the opposite direction. The most you can do is break trail for them, and hope they follow you. They may branch off on their own, and follow a different path, but as long as you continue on, the chance exists that they will return to your path. (In my own case, I returned to my parent\'s recommended path at about 39 y/o, after heading down many dead end paths)\r\n\r\nIf they take a different path, and they ask for help, you should give it. Who knows, you might learn something new and useful.\r\n\r\nPhilosophy & politics-\r\n\r\nI agree you can articulate and follow a P&P based on the above.\r\n\r\nIMO-\r\n It boils down to the desire to see your family, neighbors, society, and race (I\'m speaking of the entire human race, not the different colors found) continue successfully after your death. Your actions in life can be totally selfish, giving you all the material comforts and power you want, but leaving the world worse for your children, or you can devote the effort to leave things better for your kids than they were for you, while still getting some of the things you want. This is not an either/or decision, but covers a large range of actions. You can choose where you stand on this range, and most probably will move about during your life.\r\n\r\nI\'ve just run out of time, but hope I\'ve given some food for thought here.\r\n\r\nThanks for posting on this most interesting topic and giving me (and others) a forum for discussion,','2003-06-22 14:30:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3849,1,3663,'203.145.12.203','Eye Opener','okay@wethai.com','','Dean, Armed-Lib and Friends,\r\nWhen I get present to the miracle of life, MY life, then I am in awe of virtually everything. I am aware that today, NOW, is MY LIFE. I have LIFE, HERE... NOW... and on to the next here, now, and the next, and the next...\r\n\r\nI\'ve been hooked, addicted to \'some day\', \'real soon now\' and \'we\'ll see\'... I\'ve sacrificed them for \"I bear witness... I testify AT THIS MOMENT...\" because there IS NO OTHER moment.\r\n\r\nAm I gushing? Do you feel turned off by my openness? And yet, you have the courage to admit that things in your life aren\'t working too well, so I share with you... being present to the miracle of life, here and now, lets me enjoy what is enjoyable to my sons, my wife, me, us, those with whom we\'re sharing our life... I\'m in love.\r\n\r\nFriends, this is NOT a practice for the \'real thing\', despite the clergy who want us to wait for \'someday\'... I\'m alive! I AM ALIVE, so help me God! \r\n','2003-06-22 15:23:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3850,1,3660,'66.69.0.109','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Clue,\r\n\r\n You need to find one, as David Brooks is the one who made the comparison and he strictly limited it to the Palestinian verbal assaults we see every day translated in MEMRI.','2003-06-22 15:23:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3851,1,3663,'24.163.108.27','Cliff','not@really.com','','AL, Phil, et. al.\r\n\r\nMy kids are 7, 5, & 2 so I am right with you.\r\n\r\nI\'ve learned to use soccer, piano recitals, and dance recitals as time to turn off my mind until my kid is actually doing something.\r\n\r\nI chat with the other parents, but don\'t expect much from it. Part of this is my absolute inability to remember names, though I will remember what they *do* for years.\r\n\r\nBut I have slowly been assembling an interesting group of could-be-friends (who are not in the High-Tech field!) for cookouts and a monthly poker game. A car sales manager, a retired lawyer and late-life dad, a finance manager at a cell phone company, a marketing consultant, the CEO of a local biotech.\r\n\r\nNot a computer/software person in the lot. And quite a variety of education, from high-school to Ph.D. \r\n\r\nAnd all of them effortlessly take my money on alternative Saturday nights on the back porch.\r\n\r\nSomehow I\'ve turned into what I always wanted my parents to be - there, involved, less-frequently-pissed-off-than-other-dada, friends with their friends parents.\r\n\r\n-C','2003-06-22 15:41:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3852,1,3658,'4.47.144.170','Les','les.meade@verizon.net','','Just because there are better examples in this world of abuse of justice, repression of free speech, and diplomatic hypocrisy doesn\'t make the current behavior of French politicians any less valid as examples of them. \r\n\r\nWhen it comes to these qualities, as Bogie said, \"There will always be Paris.\" ','2003-06-22 16:08:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3853,1,3663,'68.107.247.180','Jim','jimsjournal@yahoo.com','http://www.geocities.com/jimsjournal/','I can relate so well to your entry -- and it appears that everyone commenting also knows just what you are talking about. From the moment my eldest was born I knew that I had to treasure each moment, to savor all of those mundane daily events -- a baby\'s laugh, a toddler piling blocks, \"Look Daddee, see birdie,\" and soccer games and softball games and music lessons and computer games and hikes and \"Dad, can I borrow your car?\" -- and now my youngest, my baby, will be starting college in the fall. Never fear, my eldest and his wife will be producing a grandson next month and the cycle can being again. ','2003-06-22 16:22:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3855,1,3663,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','\"...when you get away form the Washington-New York-Los Angeles media axis, and out to the Little League fields, lots of people do center their lives around the small accomplishments that real life is made up of.\"\r\n\r\nA society without these \'small\' accomplishments doesn\'t HAVE any Grand Romantic gestures - unless it\'s self-immolation, because that society will be coming apart.\r\n\r\nWhat we see at these times is mundane, but this kind of low-level civil get-together is the base of the \"democracy food chain.\" Like plankton in the ocean, it\'s everywhere, almost unnoticed, and the building block for all of the grand stuff that sits on top.\r\n\r\n\"But somehow I\'ve found something in it that\'s hard to explain....not impossible, I hope. And I\'ve come to believe that there is a philosophy and politics one can advocate that\'s based on it.\"\r\n\r\nI look forward to the explanations. As for the philosophy, Amitai Etzioni\'s Communitarian movement is probably your best place to start:\r\n\r\n\"The easy part is identifying what has gone wrong with America: the pendulum has swung too far toward a preoccupation with individualism. Too many people shirk their communal and civic responsibilities. Special interest groups have gotten out of hand. Moral agreement has crumbled.\r\n\r\nThe difficult part is finding effective ways to restore social and moral consensus without a small group of people imposing a set of behaviors and values on all of us. We need ways to restore the family, without reviving a 1950\'s mentality; to stop criminals and drunk drivers, without opening the door - even a crack - to a police state; to curb the spread of AIDS, while protecting privacy. In other words, to restore social responsibilities and a commitment to community, without puritanism or authoritarianism. This centrist philosophy is at the core of the communitarian movement.\"','2003-06-22 16:51:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3856,1,3631,'4.60.205.251','Steve','steve@steveverdon.com','http://www.steveverdon.com','The current active duty US Army strength is 480,000 men. The 1980\'s Cold War strength peak was 780,000. Totaling 480,000 and 450,000 pushes us into the one million man army range.\r\n\r\nI see no alternative to the draft, if only to lower personnel costs to managable proportions.\r\n\r\n\r\nWhat is it with the love of command-and-control as a way to reduce costs? The Soveit Union did this on a massive scale and look at the mess they had at the end.\r\n\r\nThe costs \"savings\" you are talking about are only accounting savings. Here is the deal\r\n\r\nYou have Bob. You want Bob to do this military duty for you. Bob also has the option of earning $30,000 (plus benefits)/year out in the job market. But hiring Bob (and people like him) at $30,000 (plus benefits)/year would cost way too much. So you insitute a draft and pay Bob $15,000(plus benefits)/year. Sure on the accounting books you have saved $15,000/year for each \"Bob\" you hire.\r\n\r\nThe problem is that you have also taken $15,000/year per \"Bob\" out of the economy! Bob can\'t be doing his military service and working in the job market (even part time).\r\n\r\nSo in the end, you haven\'t really saved anything (at best....government is notoriously shitty at keeping bureaucratic costs down).\r\n\r\nThis applies in many instances not just the draft. Nixon tried it with wage and price controls and that was pretty much a fiasco. Now instead of paying a higher price at the pump, you paid a higher prices in terms of waiting and having to forgoe consumption.\r\n\r\nThe same thing applies here, IMO. There really ain\'t no such thing as a free lunch. With these types of schemes you are merely moving the costs around and making them less observable, the costs will still be there.','2003-06-22 16:52:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3857,1,3603,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','\"Every species, save man, is either extinct, due to natural causes, or endangered.\"\r\n\r\nUmmm... Rat? Pigeon? Fire Ant? QED. I\'ll also note that in a world fitting your description, you could add homo sapiens to that list. If we destroy enough of the structure around us, we are NOT immune (Ethiopia, anyone?).\r\n\r\nWhat we\'re doing to the deep sea is akin to throwing grenades into a dark room. Just because you can\'t easily see the damage doesn\'t mean it doesn\'t matter. There are in fact 2 arguments to be made - one humanocentric, one not.\r\n\r\nHumanocentric: These ecosystems have a also a \"net present value\" for their future existence, one we\'re simply squandering. It\'s like someone living off $200k in retirement savings at age 30. Considering the fact that the ocean is a major human protein source, many current fishing methods are like farming with semi-salt water... a practice that has caused agricultural and societal collapse more than once in human history, as yields decline year over year. \r\n\r\nWe\'re seeing the same trends on the ocean, and several fisheries have simply collapsed. More will follow unless we change. If you think the geopolitical \"zone of disorder\" is bad now, give the biosphere a few more whacks and see how much worse it can get.\r\n\r\nRobert Kaplan\'s work on international disorder and anarchy, and a book called \"Top Guns & Toxic Whales\", are both highly recommended.\r\n\r\nThere\'s also an argument that says Steve O\'Shea\'s point goes beyond any one species to an entire ecosystem - one we don\'t know very much about, either in absolute terms or in terms of its relationship to other ocean ecosystems. Such ecosystems have value in themselves, and destroying them would mean a repetition of the kinds of mistakes our civilization and learning are supposed to help us avoid. ','2003-06-22 17:56:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3858,1,3623,'24.124.66.71','Ryan','devlinrh@yahoo.com','','Folks, I have seen where people are bashing General Schoomaker, & I have one word about that: STOP!! You all who bash General Schoomaker don\'t know squat about what happened at Waco! I don\'t, only to say that I saw on t.v. newscasts the fire on the compound that destroyed a building but worse it destroyed the lives of those Davidians\' families & this nation. General Schoomaker was in no position to assess where the military was or what the FBI or ATF might have done wrong.\r\n\r\n Another thing, General Schoomaker is decisive & is a great choice to lead the Army\'s soldiers into the future. If you all want to bash anybody in the government\'s defense structure, it is Rumsfeld, at whom you all & I & all Americans need to point fingers. Rumsfeld couldn\'t find anybody, why? I know why, the active duty generals DID NOT want to work for somebody who jabbed at General Shinseki. I could go into it all day where Rumsfeld likes unconventional warfare, & dislikes conventional guys like General Shinseki, but I won\'t. Instead, you all who complain about General Schoomaker better wake up & smell the coffee, otherwise, you get your sorry butts out to Germany or Korea & stand at attention at your posts with a rifle in hand!!!','2003-06-22 19:43:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3859,1,3631,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Trent:\r\n\r\nI agree with your view that time is of the essence in raising the new formations, but will a draft really be the quickest? How long would it take Congress to revive the draft? (Or am I missing something- can the President use an executive order??)\r\n\r\nIt looks like, whatever we do, we should be mobilizing the Guard and Reserves ASAP. This would be the fastest way to get trained boots on the ground. We would then have to ramp up recruitment (draft and/or volunteers) to replace the Guards and Reserves quickly.\r\n\r\nAs long as destabilizing forces have a refuge (Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc), they will be difficult to defeat. We can, and will, continue to bloody their noses, as they inflict casualties on our forces, but the wicked problem is-how do we deal with the refuges with our current forces in place?','2003-06-22 20:31:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3860,1,3658,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Maxim:\r\n\r\nI\'m not familiar with the French jurisprudence system, but one of the basic assumptions of the American one is the concept of a \"fair trial\" If information is released too soon, a fair trial could be jeopardized. This knife cuts both ways, so either prosecution or defendant could be harmed. Judges have used a \"gag order\" where they feel necessary, and it sounds like the French court made a similar decision. Once the trial is over, gag orders should be rescinded.','2003-06-22 20:42:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3861,1,3663,'68.161.130.250','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','This is why the Left falls down a lot. People who are attracted to the Left like Grand Gestures and Meaningful Actions. They see themselves as Special. The last thing they want to do is live in a suburb and get to know their boring neighbors and run for city council or attend a zoning hearing or something. \r\n\r\nThen they decide that mainstream society is too \"stupid\" or \"deceived\" to follow them. No, mainstream society is just rolling its eyes and being polite to people too self-absorbed to respect them.','2003-06-22 21:21:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3862,1,3663,'68.161.130.250','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','PS Any political position has characters like this - Objectivists come to mind - but the Left these days seems to be nothing but these characters. There used to be an unpretentious working class Left, but they\'ve been gone since WWII, I think.\r\n\r\nA few of the SDSers went to work in auto plants and steel mills on assembly lines, organizing the workers. I don\'t agree with their politics but I respected those guys much more than the Abbie Hoffmans and Bernardine Dohrns.','2003-06-22 21:25:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3863,1,3658,'158.252.223.52','jeanne a e devoto','jaed@jaedworks.com','http://bittersanity.blogspot.com','>Judges have used a \"gag order\" where they feel necessary\r\n\r\nThe comparison of a gag order to the order in this case to prevent publication of the book is a misunderstanding of American legal practice.\r\n\r\nIn the United States, a gag order may be applied to principals in a trial: defendant, plaintiff (and their attorneys), and occasionally prosecutors. The practice is not applied to other parties writing about the trial, and attempting to suppress the publication of facts about a current trial while the trial is going on is, well, a clear facial violation of the first amendment. To start with.\r\n\r\n(However, this is not generally a principle that is given much importance in other countries, including other Anglo-Saxon jurisprudence countries. There was a case in Canada a few years ago, for example, a very gruesome kidnapping/rape/murder perpetrated by a husband and wife. The wife was given a light sentence on a manslaughter guilty plea, in exchange for her testimony against her ex-husband, who was about to be tried for first-degree murder. The prosecution obtained a court order forbidding publication in Canadian media of the guilty plea and the fact that the sentence was pursuant to a plea bargain [but not the relatively light conviction and sentence] to create a public perception that the husband was the mastermind and the guiltier of the two. In the United States, there is no way this would have been allowed, but at the time I got the impression that this was not too uncommon in Canada.)\r\n\r\nThat being said, it\'s true that there are many countries that are far, far more repressive than France.','2003-06-22 21:33:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3864,1,3658,'145.254.184.67','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\ndear jeanne a e devoto, i hope you read my two last posts in this article:\r\nhttp://windsofchange.net/cgi-bin/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=3592\r\ni wasn\'t very pleased to see noby answering after uncovering what these accusations against europe really where.\r\n\r\nand i hope you recognised the new story armed liberal wrote, based on comments by G Gonzalez, who said:\r\n\r\n\"However, judging from Armed Liberal\'s initial post, he didn\'t know, either, that Eva Joly was involved in the case.\"\r\n\r\nas you see she is NOT a thrid party, but involved in the case. which makes it logical her book is not pblished as long the case is ended.\r\nbut biased information and wrong realities about europe\'s political system won\'nt uncover this, but create a prejudiced hatred picture that is indeed wrong.\r\n\r\nsome should recognise european reality and think again, before making their statements, and before thinking about the world and it\'s design in the new century.\r\n','2003-06-22 23:12:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3865,1,3663,'68.50.63.200','Kelli','kmkobor@hotmail.com','','Wow!\r\n\r\nIf I may add a comment from the distaff side, I\'d like to thank you all for letting me peer into your male psyches for a moment or two. I don\'t want to come off as angry, just mystified really. Now I know what is going on in the head of the man who\'s eyes have just glazed over as I answer his benign question--what do you DO?--with the response, I\'m home with two small boys. Tick, tick, the drift begins...well, one of the eternal verities of life in the suburbs is that married men and married women should not be seen engaged for too long in thoughtful conversation. It just won\'t do.\r\n\r\nForgive me, but your collective ruminations about the simple life of the suburban family have a ring of condescension about them--rather like one of the English Romantics contemplating the joy of manual labor, a thing he\'d observed from time to time from the comfort of his sitting room. \r\n\r\nYou are either a member of your family and your community, or you are not. You cannot deign to speak when it suits you, remain aloof when it doesn\'t. Well, of course, you can, but then you are not really of the community and do not kid yourself. Community is a process, not a static thing. You can\'t visit it once in a while. You have to do your part to maintain it and keep it up. This can be a part time job or full time one, but it is a job either way. I little respect, even a month after Mother\'s Day, would go a long way.\r\n\r\nThanks.','2003-06-23 00:41:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3866,1,3661,'66.250.185.246','Charlie','chasrmartin@netscape.net','','The world is the flute. We\'re the music. Who is the Musician? Can there be music without a Musician?\r\n\r\nCan there be a Musician ... without music?','2003-06-23 01:10:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3867,1,3659,'172.203.117.219','Dan Hartung','lakefxdan@aol.com','http://www.lakefx.nu/','In a Realpolitik sense we don\'t care if the Taliban come to power again, as long as they don\'t constitute an imminent threat to our security at home or in the region. Recent reports have suggested the US has opened talks with the Taliban, at least to the extent of setting the terms of a truce (e.g. no Mullah Omar). And even the Taliban may be able to play a role in bringing needed stability, which is why the Clinton administration made its infamous overtures in the 1990s. (Then as now they have virtually only one card to play: handing over Osama bin Laden at the time, and laying down their arms today.)\r\n\r\nIt\'s also untrue that we simply abandoned Afghanistan. That didn\'t happen immediately; it only happened after the government had fallen for the third or fourth time and, IIRC, Hekmatyar had taken to shelling Kabul. We gave them some help but when they couldn\'t get it together we concluded that our efforts were better spent elsewhere. (It was, to be sure, a busy period, with democracy blooming everywhere from Eastern Europe to Latin American and even Southeast Asia. One couldn\'t be faulted for the optimism that it would eventually spread even to remote backwaters.) It was only after this that Pakistan mounted its concerted efforts to turn Afghanistan into a client state, for \"strategic depth\" with India, and backed the Taliban. At the time, Pakistan was working, to some extent, on our behalf: we hoped they would succeed.\r\n\r\nToday, I think the same holds true. We can\'t confuse our ideals with our interests. We would *like* Afghanistan to bloom into a nascent mountain democracy, but our interests do not require it. They only require that we retain enough influence to prevent a renewed rise of al Qaeda.\r\n\r\nAlso, it\'s important to consider the value of strategic instability. I have a number of thoughts along those lines. Hmm. Perhaps a guest blog?','2003-06-23 01:43:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3868,1,3631,'172.201.157.217','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','\"Events drive policy and the path to empire we are on was created by the attack on 9/11/2001.\"\r\n\r\npeople drive both events and policy, trent. \r\n\r\nyou seem to be taking a very static and determinate view of what will happen, rather than recognizing what is beyond the realm of your total understanding. there is knowledge of what will happen that you simply dont have. knowledge of our own futures none of us can have. while our american actions are the most important ones in this global dance, we are not the only players. we may have more freedom to choose what we will do, rather than simply reacting to circumstance like many of our opponents are forced to do, and rightfully so, but that does not mean you have enough information to sustain some of the assertions you are making. \r\n\r\nwhether what we are pursuing is \"empire\" or simple common sense is up for argument. of course i agree that sept 11th called for all that we have done, and more. but it does not follow that simply because this is true, that you happen to automatically be right about everything else. \r\n\r\nwhile i completely agree that we must hold nothing back if we are to win this fight, you must also remember what it is we are fighting for. otherwise we have lost anyway. a static, unsustainable, draft enforced military support mega-force would not be good for our nation and would do nothing to help us win this very important fight we are in.','2003-06-23 01:59:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3869,1,3664,'66.122.49.120','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','Well done, sir.','2003-06-23 02:11:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3870,1,3664,'63.189.16.206','Bart Hall (Kansas, USA)','bart.hall@prairiestarfarm.com','','I hope some trial attorney in Canada sets me right about this if I\'m wrong, but when I was living there I recall that gag orders regarding court proceedings were fairly common.\r\n\r\nIn fact I\'d say it\'s what Canada tends to do rather than sequester the jury.','2003-06-23 02:14:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3871,1,3660,'172.203.117.219','Dan Hartung','lakefxdan@aol.com','http://www.lakefx.nu/','I found this article a little disturbingly spot-on. I\'ve said such things before; I think it\'s a little sad that the current Democratic party has nobody inside who\'ll say it to them now, and has to get David Brooks to make the analysis, which makes it sound partisan (well, it probably is!), mean-spirited and such.\r\n\r\nI\'ve despaired as the party ranks have concentrated on complaining that the Republicans outmaneuvered them in (chiefly) Florida, rather than figure out exactly what they could have done differently to capture legitimately those measly 16,000 votes that accidentally went to Pitchfork Pat, which would have won them the state and the election. Or just the matter of nominating a candidate who can, in fact, win his own state. (They seemed previously to be in a slump where they only nominated candidates who would win their own states -- and nearly no others!)','2003-06-23 02:56:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3872,1,3663,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Gosh, Kelli, there is so much annoying about your comment that I\'m hard-pressed to pick a place to begin.\r\n\r\nAs a (not for long) single dad who has been lucky enough to be able to work part time for the last few years, I find it a constant source of amazement and amusement that moms somehow believe they are the only ones who have the keys to parenting or any commitment to it. When I worked full-time (50 hours+), I also managed to spend time with my kids, and had the interesting experience of meeting lots of stay-at-home moms who were checked out of the PTA and T-ball and AYSO because they felt that delivering the kids fulfilled their obligations, and who - liki their male counterparts - had other things that were far more important than the activity going on right in front of us.\r\n\r\nSorry, but what I\'m talking about is not a sex-linked characteristic.\r\n\r\nI am amused and sad that you manage to see the entire world through the lenses of gender, and would like to gently encourage you to consider the possibility that some things may be gender related - and others not.\r\n\r\nAnd to close, I\'ll suggest that the only place I see any \"ring of condescension\" is in your comment...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-23 03:03:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3873,1,3664,'212.234.231.51','GGonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','AL,\r\n\r\nHear hear! Or would it be \"oyez! oyez!\".\r\n\r\nTake heart. Glenn Reynolds has posted a new challenge for you: http://www.instapundit.com/archives/010221.php. (Maybe you should get the T.V. first: http://www.plasmavision.com/)','2003-06-23 03:33:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3874,1,3664,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','GG -\r\n\r\nWell, if I\'m gonna watch sadomasochistic orgies (!!). a 50\" plasma screen TV would be the minimum, wouldn\'t you say??\r\n\r\nMore on France and personal experience with corruption later.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-23 03:43:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3875,1,3663,'67.116.217.254','Skeej','skeej@hotmail.com','','Concur with AL, there Kelli, on a couple things, but sympathize with what I think is your meaning. I\'m a stay at home dad with two preschool kids, retired from business while wifey continues the career.\r\n\r\nI too see the lack of appreciation of how important and how hard the parenting job is, especially when as you say, sometimes people seem to think its a copout to be doing that rather than working. \r\n\r\nBut to be fair to men, I think I can say with some authority that you just cant realize how hard it is until you do it full time. It was actually easier to be a \"good dad\" when working a 60 hour week, than to do it all day. Dont ask me why, but I think its something about our genes. \r\n\r\nHow do single parents do it? I dont know, but god bless em. \r\n\r\n-my two cents.\r\n','2003-06-23 05:06:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3878,1,3663,'205.242.224.241','AST','asthorpe@yahoo.com','','I remember having this conversation a few years ago, with a group who seemed to think it was immoral to bring a child into this world, so full of evil and suffering. I couldn\'t help but wonder if there were a future for the race, if people really believed that. \r\n\r\nThis discussion has given me hope.','2003-06-23 06:01:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3879,1,3647,'195.6.223.153','benladen','benladen@hotmail.com','','![](\"http://www.scottishspca.org/images/education/bat%20animated.gif\")
','2003-06-23 13:44:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3884,1,3647,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','benladen:\r\n\r\nGot anything new to offer? Otherwise, crawl back under your rock.','2003-06-23 15:22:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3880,1,3647,'195.6.223.153','benladen','benladen@hotmail.com','','Et ça sa marche encore','2003-06-23 13:48:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3881,1,3667,'129.29.227.2','rkb','studio@fcc.net','','That about sums up my reaction to this book, too.\r\n\r\nReminds me of the first principle of fiction: show, don\'t tell, character\'s motives etc. ','2003-06-23 14:34:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3877,1,3664,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Yes, those sorts of things do happen here in Canada. Do I object? No. It\'s one of the things that helps keep the trials from becoming O.J. circuses, and even in the case of Paul Bernardo, it worked. The authors still get to publish their books, so it\'s not like they\'re being gagged unreasonably.\r\n\r\nDoes this mean people can\'t talk about it? No, it does not. Again, the Bernardo trial is a good example. It was all over the newspaper for months, including editorials and commentary. But the trial wasn\'t televised, reporting of certain items was banned, and books based in part on evidence applicable to the trial were held up, I believe.\r\n\r\nAgain, I haven\'t the slightest problem with this. There are some things more important than the next episode of \"Entertainment Tonight,\" and proper administration of justice when the future liberty of a citizen is at stake is one of them.','2003-06-23 05:14:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3885,1,3668,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Gabriel:\r\n\r\nGreat Fisking of Christophe. It has gotten so that every comment from the usual suspects on the Left, no matter the title of the essay, will contain some variation of \"Bush lied\"\r\n\r\n\r\n\"...partly because they wanted a good story to build political support for the war\"\r\n\r\nAt that point, public support for the war was already solid and increasing. Why spread a BS story, knowing the truth will come out?\r\n\r\nThanks for your insight into this, and other subjects.','2003-06-23 15:41:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3886,1,3631,'144.183.226.2','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Randall,\r\n\r\n Drafting recent immigrants who have the proper language skills and training them in the military is going to do more for our language skills gap than anything else I can think of.\r\n\r\n Using the Special Forces to create the equivalent of the \"Indian Scouts\" the US Army used in the Old West comes in as a close second.\r\n\r\n After that, hiring english speaking Kuwaits for administrative translation services in Iraq comes in third.\r\n\r\nPhil,\r\n\r\n The Reserves have been burned out and early signs of their collapse are now appearing.\r\n\r\n The intent of the reserves is to fill in the gap until the country mobilizes its resources for protracted conflict.\r\n\r\n The Bush Adminsitration is making mistakes on the mobilization front that look too much like that of the LBJ Administration, with the Reserves and the draftees switching roles.\r\n\r\nBalagan,\r\n\r\n>you seem to be taking a very static and \r\n>determinate view of what will happen, rather \r\n>than recognizing what is beyond the realm of \r\n>your total understanding.\r\n\r\n\r\nQuestion: Would the Bush Administration have invaded and occupied Iraq without the events of 9/11/2001.\r\n\r\nThe answer is *NO*.\r\n\r\nThe Bush Administration and the political class has to deal with the American people who will not tolerate attacks in America. That is the 800 pound gorilla in the room that everyone of a is desperately trying to ignore(Democrat)/placate(Republican).\r\n\r\nSome stuff from this link for you to consider:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.strategypage.com/strategypolitics/articles/20021128.asp\r\n\r\nThe World\'s Coming Encounter With Andrew Jackson \r\nby Tom Holsinger\r\nNovember 28, 2002\r\n\r\nThe American people won’t tolerate being attacked at home by foreign terrorists. This is THE dominant factor in the war against terror. Americans\' definition of victory here is security from attack at home, which even the Democratic Party does not understand, let alone foreigners. This war began when we were attacked at home and will end when further danger of that has passed. We’re fighting for our security at home, not to create a better world elsewhere, but the latter is all the Democratic Party proposes. \r\n\r\nThe Democrats banished their national security faction long ago, and feel military policy is merely a variant of domestic policy - either pork-barrel spending or armed social work among ungrateful foreigners. Every problem looks like a nail if your only tool is a hammer. Democrats are unable to accept the existence of evil or the necessity of winning in war. This resulted in collapse of public confidence in the Democrats\' ability and willingness to protect the American people, even if many Democratic internationalist proposals have merit. \r\n\r\nand\r\n\r\nWhich brings us back to the American people. Failure to defeat terrorism means further attacks at home, so lack of resolve is not an issue. Ditto for ability. Americans in general, particularly their Jacksonian element, tend to believe in using all available force when involved in a serious war, and being attacked at home qualifies as one. Walter Russell Mead said in Special Providence: \"The only reason Jacksonian opinion has ever accepted not to use nuclear weapons is the prospect of retaliation.” \r\n\r\nThe United States will use whatever means are necessary to win the war against terror, up to and including genocide against whole countries and peoples. See the Autumn 1997 article by Polmar & Allen in Military History Quarterly for what would have happened to Japan had it not surrendered in 1945. The American people, unlike those of Europe and Israel, have a very tribal attitude towards enemy civilian casualties in a major war. Those concerned about fanaticism by foreign peoples are ignorant of American history and power. Japan was fanatical. A clash of civilizations involving the United States would be short, brutal and totally one-sided - significant portions of Asia and North Africa might be reduced to subsisdence-level agriculture and population levels. \r\n\r\nThat America is capable of genocide doesn’t mean it will happen. Its people made great adjustments and sacrifices to win the Cold War, and showed amazing patience, flexibility and inventiveness. America’s ability to teach a horse to sing should not be underestimated, but the differences between the war on terror and the Cold War should likewise be kept in mind. The U.S. was not constantly involved in military hostilities during the Cold War, and was never attacked at home. There may be a limit on American patience with prolonged military hostilities in the war against terror, though that prospect is unlikely and remote. \r\n\r\n','2003-06-23 15:56:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3887,1,3631,'208.251.221.13','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://www.overpressure.com','The Army had 785,000 folks in it in 1989, prior to the invasion of Kuwait (actually, I think we were overstrength at 800k or so, and had Kuwait not happened and stop-loss gone into effect, the Army would have had to kick out 20 or 30 thousand people on October 1. Conspiracy theorists discuss. Somewhere else.) The Army at that point was a volunteer service, had crappy pay in comparison to the \"real world,\" had long duty hours and the expectation that you might have to go somewhere and get killed all rolled into it. The outside economy was going like gangbusters up until then.\r\n\r\nAlso, IIRC, 1989 was the year that the Army was able to meet its recruiting goals without letting in any CAT IV\'s, and there were no non-HS graduates allowed in. It was a good thing it didn\'t take no GED, because it didn\'t help you.\r\n\r\nWhat happened between then and now? A lot.\r\n\r\nBut if we needed to add another 200k or 300k troops, it wouldn\'t need a draft.\r\n\r\nIt needs what I constantly point out - an increase in the statutory size of the service and cocommitant increase in the budget.\r\n\r\nUntil we do those things, everything else is just talk. ','2003-06-23 17:12:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3888,1,3631,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Trent:\r\nI agree with your comment to Radall 100%, but imagine the howling from the Left if you limit the draft to Arabic speakers.\r\n\r\nHow about an enlistment bonus targeted at the people we want/need?','2003-06-23 18:25:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3889,1,3668,'12.254.166.252','Charels Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','','The Baby Boomer left and their minions have two basic options in their playbook: Vietnam and Watergate. Re. Iraq, Vietnam didn\'t work; there was no quagmire. So now they are left with Watergate: \"What did the President know and when did he know it\". That wil be the refrain until we come up with Saddam and/or the weapons of mass destruction. The liberation of the children\'s prison or the mass graves simply don\'t count. Then as we take on the next target (North Korea, Syria or Iran) it will be back to the Vietnam motif: \"I see a quagmire in our future; there\'s got to be a quagmire out there somewhere\". ','2003-06-23 18:40:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3890,1,3663,'66.12.121.50','Stan','stanyoungs@hotmail.com','','Folks,\r\n\r\nThis is a great line of discussion - one that should happen more often between parents AND those not elbow deep in family routines.\r\n\r\nNow my comments: I have 4 chldren, now 15-23. Call me crazy, simple-minded, \"boring\"? - but I enjoyed the recitals and games (even practices! -coached many and observed and helped out -the \"coaches\" so need admind help - extra adult bodies etc...). \r\n\r\nOldest was a daughter / ballarina (not necessarily in that order) - I volunteered to participate in a pas de deux class for a couple years and it was one of the most treasured experiences of my life. Getting to truly understand her passion, commitment, effort and amazing ability as well as an inside introduction to performing arts was very enriching. She danced professionally for a couple of years then moved on - but I learned so much.\r\n\r\nMy son enjoyed the outdoors (and so do I) so we did the Scout thing - then together we did Search & Rescue. It was fabulous and I learned about and appreciated a community of people dedicated to helping. I also learned about my son - his physical capacity, endurance or tolerance of discomfort and his tenacity - up close and personal. It was not to be missed.\r\n\r\nRather than go on (my other two children and their activities are just as compelling) - the point is, for me, the seemingly mundane was not when the participant was my child and I could even \"get into\" the drama for the chldren surrounding them I grew to know. Whether it\'s performance, competition or doing a task/job the \"stuff of life\" is how people (children and adults) react to the conflict, interpret the art or perform the job or deal with the drudgery of practice or exercise. You encounter the spectrum of success and their reaction to it - there are tragedies and triumphs - all fodder for the active mind. And, yes, some of it is \"routine\" but that is a lesson to be learned and mastered also.\r\n','2003-06-23 19:06:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3891,1,3660,'216.231.38.171','Raoul Ortega','r.ortega@mouse-potato.com','','Sheesh. Can you cite a reputable, non-partisan source that there were 16,000 morons in Florida who cast the wrong vote? If that\'s true, I would suspect there would be just as many morons who accidentally voted for Nader instead of Bush. So statistically, the moron vote would just cancel itself out.\r\n\r\nBut I do agree with your main point. The Democrats only hope seems to hinge on how better to capture every moron vote, as the huge plurality they currently enjoy won\'t be enough.','2003-06-23 20:03:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3892,1,3669,'216.231.38.171','Raoul Ortega','r.ortega@mouse-potato.com','','I saw the headline as ThankYouToNY.com, and was wondering what New York needed to be thanked for. D\'Oh.\r\n','2003-06-23 20:07:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3893,1,3668,'66.32.77.209','Laughing Wolf','wolf1@laughingwolf.net','http://laughingwolf.net','Great Post! Thank you for doing this.','2003-06-23 20:37:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3894,1,3660,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Raoul,\r\n\r\nPat \"WW2 was a mistake\" Buchanan won a number of Jewish districts. Ahem. I\'m a right-winger, and that sure looks like a mistake to me. \r\n\r\nThat said there\'s just no possible option except going by what people marked on the ballot, period. No \"do-overs,\" either. Anything else is way too open to serious abuse.','2003-06-23 20:43:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3895,1,3668,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Flit neatly encapsualtes my issues with this. We have enough real heroes and achievements to go around without having to make them up.\r\n\r\nAs an explanation of why the initial descriptions were so glowing and why subsequent information has largley met disinterest, Gabriel\'s piece works. The point about the Left\'s motivation is a good one, too, and this blog has dealt with why we simply don\'t buy the \"it was all staged\" line. \r\n\r\nWish the post has stopped there, or just jumped to the final paragraph rather than going into the \"mythology is good\" digression. Good? Not when real soldiers are involved. Such projects begin with the intent of reinforcing heroism - and always, always end up merely cheapening it. \r\n\r\nNot now. Not when we need it more than ever.','2003-06-23 21:31:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3896,1,3668,'66.255.8.100','AMac','ammackay@usa.net','','I thought journalism was supposed to be about getting the story. Story as in factual occurrences, with allowances for mistakes of omission or comission, as the reporter stumbles about in the fog of the here-and-now.\r\n\r\nNot story as in Spin, or Myth, or 4-Act-Play.\r\n\r\nNot story as in \"Bush Lied, so they must\'ve staged a rescue.\" Equally not as in \"Lynch is our Joan of Arc.\"\r\n\r\nAs a reader, I understand that reporters will get things wrong. This message that mistakes are okay? That facts don\'t matter, are unknowable, that the story is the story?\r\n\r\nEr--remember Jayson Blair? ','2003-06-23 22:24:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3897,1,3668,'80.13.121.150','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','A fair point. And not an unexpected one. We\'re maybe debating about terms. Perhaps \"glorification\" would be closer to my intended meaning than \"mythologizing\", and \"celebration\" might be more neutral. What I really wanted to bring out (and perhaps didn\'t quite get across) was the solidarity of citizens with their defenders. War - ie, fighting for something - is not a clinical, sterile enterprise, but also entails an emotional investment that I would hope has not become off limits (and need not, in my view, be either \"authoritarian\" or \"fascist\"). My sense was that this facet of the story had become lost in the search for \"facts\".','2003-06-23 22:30:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3898,1,3649,'68.43.74.36','Varchild','macmillan_jeff@hotmail.com','','As a Right Winger I try my hardest to check myself. I never like thinking that I am right when I am clearly wrong. I go out of my way to admit that I am wrong when proven wrong. I go so far as to let people know that I am open for being proven wrong. \r\n\r\nI just went to Eastern Michigan University which is much more than 90% Left Wing. In all honesty, no matter which left wing college student or professor I talk to on any subject, I have yet to find a single left wing individual ever tell me that, \"hey, I guess I\'m wrong about that. Thanks for letting me realize it.\"\r\n\r\nAnd yet I can count dozens of cases in which I openly admit to being wrong to a left winger. I don\'t know whether I am *Unique* or not. I feel though that it is my Right Wing Conservatism that guides me into analyzing whether I am right or wrong on everything I discuss with people. I wish I could meet a single Left Winger who could admit they were wrong on occasion.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-23 22:52:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3899,1,3670,'68.52.70.6','Donald Sensing','thisis@notit.com','http://www.donaldsensing.com/','CLP is a very fine cleaner, but in very dusty conditions as they had in Iraq, it catches too much airborne matter.\r\n\r\nSo what? \r\n\r\nThe problem is that weapons must not only be lubricated, they must be cleaned - not the same thing. The dry lubricant you referenced does not clean. \r\n\r\nThe M16 rifle and variants thereof are all gas operated, meaning that some of the propellant gases are rerouted backward, through a thin metal tube, to push the bolt carrier assembly backward and cycle the mechanism to eject the fired round and load the next one. \r\n\r\nThis kind of recoil mechanism always gets incompletely burned propellant matter on the mechanisms, which if not cleaned off regularly and well will adversely affect weapons performance. \r\n\r\nWhen I was a battery commander in the mid-1980s, the troops tended to soak their rifles in CLP, wipe them off fairly superfically, and reassemble them. All this did was make the rifle a dust magnet, of course. The CLP must be rubbed off thoroughly, until the metal feels dry to the touch. A very thin film still remains for lubrication. Dry lubricant can be added with no adverse effect.\r\n\r\nThe weapons must be cleaned, not merely lubed. And only CLP or something like it can do that as of now. \r\n\r\nAnother point - experienced combat soldiers clean or lube their weapons a lot, almost every chance they get. If the desert dust had built up in the 507th\'s rifles to the point they would not fire, it tells me they neglected to check and clean them regularly. Just taking the bolt carrier out and wiping the dust off with a rag works wonders, and takes only a couple of minutes. \r\n\r\nThat is a leadership and training issue. \r\n\r\nI agree that the Army needs to find a cleaner better than CLP for desert operations, but the rush to blame CLP alone, without considering the leadership and training responsibilities, is irresponsible. \r\n\r\nAnd the people yelling the loudest in the article you cite should (A) know that and (B) understand the difference between cleaning a weapon and lubricating it.\r\n\r\nBut soapboxes are such great fun, and get such great publicity, why let a comprehensive look at the issue spoil the fun?\r\n\r\nI have learned to be as wary of military reformers who promote some cause \"for the troops\" as I am of the liberal-left who wants to start some program \"for the children.\" \r\n\r\nIt makes we wonder what the real agenda is . . . .','2003-06-24 01:13:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3900,1,3670,'64.230.168.253','seanca2000','seanca2000@ynaohsopoam.com.com','','Here:\r\nhttp://www.jouster.com/articles30m1/index.html\r\nis an utterly fantastic article about the ins and outs of the M16 (and descentants) and jamming problems. Written by an expert.\r\n\r\nRead and enjoy.\r\n\r\nSean C.','2003-06-24 01:17:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3901,1,3670,'68.52.70.6','Donald Sensing','thisis@notit.com','http://www.donaldsensing.com/','It is true that the early-issue M16s had the design problem that Sean\'s cited article explains. And I am not defending the M16 per se, I can think of a number of things I don\'t like about it. And I am pretty sure that there are other combat rifles that would not be as adversely affected by the dusty condtions as the M16. \r\n\r\nAgain I say, \"So what?\" \r\n\r\nThe M16 is what we have, and some version of it is all we\'re going to have for years to come. That is fact, so the issue is making the best of it because that\'s all there is. And to dismiss leadership and training as part of doing that is irresponsible. ','2003-06-24 01:38:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3902,1,3670,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Or, you could just design a rifle that simply doesn\'t jam in desert conditions, even if poorly maintained. Israel\'s Galil, for instance. Bet the AK-47 wsith its simple, robust mechanism does well, too.','2003-06-24 03:31:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3908,1,3670,'68.166.80.225','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://www.overpressure.com','Troops armed with M16s have been kicking the asses of troops armed with AK47\'s force on force for almost 40 years.\r\n\r\nThe Israelis have the Galil, but whenever you see video of IDF, they are carrying M16s.\r\n\r\nSF guys can choose the weapons they would like. They choose M16\'s or, more likely, the M4 variant.\r\n\r\nBut the M16 isn\'t the problem that the convoy from the 507th faced, and neither is CLP. The problem they faced was that they got into bad guy territory, away from the patrolled MSR and were ambushed.\r\n\r\nThis is fog of war stuff, and it isn\'t unique to this Iraqi war. The highest ranking EOD soldier killed in Desert Storm (a Command Sergeant Major) was killed when the HMMVW he was in took a wrong turn, they came up to an Iraqi patrol, and they were shot and killed.\r\n\r\nPS, Joe, the AK is commie junk. ','2003-06-24 05:01:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3909,1,3670,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Donald, I think your info on maintenance is somewhat dated. The current line on M-15/-4 maintenance in the training community is MPro7 - a cleaner that leaves no oily film.\r\n\r\nBut my core point here wasn\'t Breakfree good v. Breakfree bad, but the overall issue of attention to detail and, more important, how the folks actually doing the work - whether line military or assembly line workers - need to be enabled to deal with issues like this.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-24 05:08:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3910,1,3665,'68.166.80.225','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://www.overpressure.com','Commercial EOD work really took off in the post Desert Storm world. The size of the UXO problem in Kuwait was (is) huge. Companies like EODT and UXB in Ashburn, VA recruited a lot of techs.\r\n\r\nIf the US were to take on the challenge on our nickel, it would take a significant number of our active duty troops YEARS, and the cost massive.\r\n\r\nKuwait pays most of the bill for that work even today. There really isn\'t a mechanism to work a contract for pay for US soldiers - and that\'s probably a bad precedent, anyway.\r\n\r\nIt just makes sense to take non-combat activities and have non-soldiers do them. That way the steely-eyed killers can spend their time doing just that. The killing people and breaking things thing. The part that the non-soldiers can\'t do.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-06-24 05:15:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3911,1,3670,'216.250.33.81','Ralph','rtacoma@allwest.net','','Joe,\r\n\r\n Don is completely correct that you need to address the leadership and training aspects. Making the hardware better is a good idea, but there are also always tradeoffs. The AK-47 does tend to \"keep on humping\" no matter what, but it\'s accuracy leaves a LOT to be desired. (That did have an effect on the casualty ratios in Iraq; though poor training of Iraqi troops in terms of marksmanship and proper small unit tactics was probably more important.) Good troops always take care of their weapons. I haven\'t heard of any complaints of jamming problems from the line units in either Iraq or Afghanistan. \r\n \r\n That makes me think that Don is really on to something, and it suggests that there MAY \r\n(remember I\'m the one who\'s written about not jumping to conclusions based on limited data!) be a problem with \"support troops\" remembering that they are TROOPS and that means that they are supposed to be COMBAT READY even if combat is not their primary job. \r\n\r\n I\'m not saying that we shouldn\'t get the best lubricant and cleaning compounds to the troops, OF COURSE we sould, but even the best cleaning supplies will not do the job if not properly used.\r\n\r\n Similarly, a \"better designed\" weapon MIGHT be an improvement, but you\'ve also got ot be careful that you don\'t give up to much in order to get a weapon that will always fire --- it is nice to be able to hit a target with it, for example. The GALIL, particularly in 7.62 NATO is a fine weapon, but Israeli troops don\'t neglect its maintenance. Designing a better combat rifle always runs into very serious confliets as to the best balance of conflicting design priorities, and no one weapon every is 100% on all of them. It simply can\'t be done. \r\n\r\n The M16 was often maligned in Vietnam for being unrealiable, yet years before it was \"offically approved\" I knew Special Forces guys who loved it and wanted it (it was still being specially purchased as the \"AR15\" at that time) and they didn\'t have a reliability problem with it --- but THEY took care of their weapons. The same guys often had both an M16 and an M14 and used whichever was more appropriate for the mission at hand, and sometimes humped both of them along on patrol to deal with \"unforeseen circumstancees.\" Those guys preferred the M16 to the AK because it was much more lethal and they accepted the cleaning burden to have that lethality. Now, their choice may well not be right for everyone since they were, admittedly, what might be called \"weapons fanatics,\" but it does suggest that the right answer isn\'t just to junk the M16 either.\r\n\r\n There\'s a plausible argument that what\'s needed is a different \"side arm\" type of weapon for support troops that\'s optimized to be most effective out to perhaps 200 yards Something along the lines of the \"M1 Carbine\" of WWII, but with a more effective round. Personally, I always thought that the M1 Carbine should have been chambered for 0.45ACP since it really wasn\'t intended for use at long range. (Again, that\'s a topic that is open to legitimate debate in its own right.)\r\n\r\n One advantage to a larger cartridge is that it has more power available that can be used to overcome resistance in the weapons mechanism --- 0.50 mgs rarely jam, dusty or not. Lighter cartridges let you carry more rounds. PERHAPS for the support troops the weapon should employ a heavier cartridge to make it easier to design a weapon that is less sensitive to proper care, while still able to maintain decent accuracy and lethality. Support troops aren\'t as concerned with the weight of ammunition\'s impact on individuals --- and generally don\'t carry the \"basic load\" of a line infantryman.\r\n\r\n Of course, if you tried to do that, you\'d have to keep everyone from trying to design the weapon to be the \"ultimate weapon for every purpose\" and . . . . \r\n\r\n One good thing that has come up is that unit commanders have a lot more authority to very equipment to meet their needs than used to be the case (M14s have come back into fairly wide use in Afghanistan, and if my understanding is correct with some units in Iraq, because their longer effective range can be used in that situation)\r\n\r\nStill for that to work, we\'re back to Don\'s observation that it\'s a COMMAND RESPONSIBILITY and the leaders have to train their people to use whatever weapons they have, and see that they are properly maintained.\r\n\r\n This is a good discussion, but, as with most of them, simple answers are hard to find.\r\n \r\n','2003-06-24 05:27:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3912,1,3670,'68.52.70.6','Donald Sensing','thisis@notit.com','http://www.donaldsensing.com/','Yes, leadership problems go all the way up! I\'d like to know whether the AARs from the Gulf War pointed this problem out - I can\'t believe they didn\'t. Why weren\'t they heeded?\r\n\r\nI use CLP to clean my competition shotgun and wipe it down very dry, then lube as needed with dry graphite spray - and I don\'t compete in anything like the environmental conditions Iraq has. ','2003-06-24 05:28:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3913,1,3676,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.futurepundit.com','At the risk of getting repetitive: The United States needs to develop weapons that can take out artillery dug into mountainsides. Maybe FAEs? Maybe artillery shells that have radar that can guide them to where the shells are coming from? Maybe small robots to drop down by parachute that can crawl around and find holes in the ground that have artillery coming out of them? \r\n\r\nThe US also needs to pull its troops back from the DMZ more rapidly. It also needs to build up air power projection capabilities in the Pacific. \r\n\r\nCan Israel make Arrow2 systems faster than Raytheon can make PAC3 systems? Relative costs and capabilities?\r\n\r\nBut most of all: We need to break the North Korean regime\'s information monopoly over its own people. ','2003-06-24 07:04:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3914,1,3670,'64.233.66.58','John','wonderbingo@yahoo.com','','M16 maintainence: When it\'s wet, use a lot of oil. This prevents rust. When it\'s dry, don\'t use very much. This prevents sand from getting stuck to the rifle (keep a magazine in when it is dusty, even an empty one). Not too tough. \r\n\r\nThe truth is, the M16 does fine if you clean it. M16\'s have killed a lot of people. The M16 has been in service for over 40 years. The bugs have been worked out. M16 variants regularly win high power rifle matches. \r\n\r\nMaintainence units spend a lot of time on things other than cleaning weapons. They\'re really mechanics. There isn\'t a lot of time to learn infantry stuff too. I think they just neglected their gear. I was in a (National Guard) maintainance company (1/3650th if anyone cares). We took pretty good care of our weapons, but we were exceptional (we had some guys who had been in Desert Storm back when we were an ambulance unit. Our armourer was also a very good spec-4). Some of the weapons from other units were definately not given the best of care. I cleaned some of them. Are there any reports from the 101st or 82nd of rifle jams? \r\n\r\nI\'ve heard some stories about the British SA-80 rifle. It is supposed to be a jamming POS, too. I\'m sure it jams without proper maintainence.\r\n\r\nTake care of your weapon, and it will take care of you. \r\n\r\nOh yeah. Try hitting anything with an AK-47 at 300 yards. Good luck. You\'ll need it. \r\n','2003-06-24 09:50:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3915,1,3663,'209.254.96.100','Richard Aubrey','EAubrey103@aol.com','','There are two comments I\'d like to make.\r\nFirst, there are a good many parents who are not involved in their children\'s lives. I speak as one who was, and especially as one who coached AYSO for five years. About the second year, the parents stopped showing up. Some were downright ugly about the requirements such as getting the kid to practice or the games. So when you participate, you are with a select community; parents who value their kids.\r\nSecond, as Tocqueville observed, the Americans are notable for the facility with which they can form ad hoc groups to deal with situations, getting along just fine despite social and other distinctions, and then just as easily break up when the need is past.\r\nNo matter how high-falutin\' you think your brain is, and how superior you are to the underclass who actually seem to like this stuff, it would be useful to at least pretend, on account of you might need a friend sometime, or at least an acquaintance who isn\'t too proud to help another person with the mundane stuff.','2003-06-24 13:34:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3916,1,3676,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','[1] PAC-3s are point defense, not theater defense. Japan needs theater defenses to start.\r\n\r\n[2] Artllery dug into mountains can survive even nukes. There may not be a solution that lets us remove the threat. Copperhead shells are guided, but you have to know where before the enemy artillery fires. Research into point defense against artillery is ongoing, but no v1 system would not be able to handle the volume the NKs could throw at it. \r\n\r\nThe traditional solution, used by Israel for the Golan Heights, is to have the enemy\'s Asst. Defense Minister as your spy and learn where all the emplacements are. This may or may not e realistic.\r\n\r\n[3] Agree with the DMZ pullback. You know South Korea will work to make that as difficult as possible. Airpower projection is being enhanced at Okinawa, at least.\r\n\r\n[4] The information monopoly should be done because it\'s safe and it accomplishes something. I believe we could be completely successful and it still wouldn\'t lead anywhere in terms of regime change. This is not a 1990s communist regime gone soft, and as long as they are willing to commit mass murder to stay in power information alone means little. ','2003-06-24 15:09:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3917,1,3677,'66.118.27.132','quark2','quarksahead@warpmail.com','','Why am I not surprised? If Bill Gates is involved you know it\'s questionable. Of course he\'s so rich now it will be almost impossible to stop him doing what ever it is he\'s inclined to do.\r\nI think he\'s also making money hand over fist off of viruses too.\r\nRedmond is not to ever be trusted.','2003-06-24 15:18:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3918,1,3631,'172.161.154.9','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','trent, i dont know if you are doing this on purpose because you simply dont have the ability to respond or if you simply dont realize it, but you are totally ignoring my point and saying stuff i agree with as if it was a response. \r\n\r\nexample:\r\n\r\n\"Question: Would the Bush Administration have invaded and occupied Iraq without the events of 9/11/2001.\r\n\r\nThe answer is *NO*.\r\n\r\nThe Bush Administration and the political class has to deal with the American people who will not tolerate attacks in America. That is the 800 pound gorilla in the room that everyone of a is desperately trying to ignore(Democrat)/placate(Republican).\"\r\n\r\ni am one of those americans who will not tolerate attacks against america or the willfully ignorant democrats and placating republicans who would do less than enough to prevent them.\r\n\r\nwhere exactly did i say our invasion of iraq wasnt preconditioned or made politically feasable by the events of sept 11th? what keeps giving you the impression that i dont recognize the impact of the 11th? i was downtown on that day and missed being right at the trade center only by (thankfully) sleeping just a little bit late. i fully support the military actions in iraq and afghanistan, am strongly in favor of the dismantlement of hamas and the rest of the palestinian infrastructure of terror, want aggresive policies with saudi arabia and syria, would be totally in favor of increased action on iran, dont trust pakistan in the least bit, etc.\r\n\r\nwhere you get the impression that im discounting the importance of sept 11th or am advocating a less aggresive response to the obvious threats we face in our world is beyond me. \r\n\r\nwhat i am specifically taking issue with in your writing is your assertion that a) we need massive numbers of static support troops and b) that we need a draft to do it.\r\n\r\ni agree that we need support troops. i dont agree with your projections on what will happen over the next few years. it is in your assesment of future conflict and deployement that i see a leap that is not substantiated by anything other than assumption on your part. it strikes me as useful for conversation but ultimately stale thinking. \r\n\r\nthe exact same is true with your belief that a draft would be a positive solution for the military problems we have. again, let me be very clear here: we *do* have military support problems. we *do* have problems with recruitment, retention, and rotation. we *do* have a larger gap between the number of troops with skills we need and the number we have, than those of us who recognize the difficulties we face in the world would like. but that *does not* automatically mean a draft is the answer. \r\n\r\njust because a draft is the only solution that you can think of, that does not make it the winning choice. the hard truth of this situation is that we dont yet have an answer for the military support problems we face. \r\n\r\nnow it has already been mentioned by others in these comments that you seem to have a soft spot for a pull-em-up-to-the-top command and control type of approach. the problem with this is that the strength in our military, as in our nation, is in pushing autonomy to the end points as much as possible. just exactly how do you propose training and motivating these draftees to do the job required of them without excessive amounts of hand holding? are we going to have an enforced draft that requires 5-10 years of heavy training? since when does turning military service into a prison sentence make this nation any better than the ones we are fighting against? why not increase the incentive and compensation for joining the military *voluntarily* at a time where the need is so obvious, instead of forcing a social control solution on our own population? if its a question of time, it would be so many years before your draft is in place and our young draftees are ready for the job required of them that your point of urgency is moot anyway. \r\n\r\nwhat you are advocating in a draft is the creation of a military dependancy. this would *not* be a military asset. it would be a weakness. the military cost of a draft exceeds its speculative benefit. \r\n\r\nthe sooner we face up to reality on this and admit to ourselves that we both have a military support problem and that we *dont* have an answer for it yet, the better our prospects will be for finding a *real* solution that doesnt leave us worse off than where we started.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-24 15:39:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3919,1,3677,'152.163.190.1','Celeste','celeste@windsofchange.net','http://permagringirl.blogspot.com','It\'s also possible that they\'re opposing the bill because it exposes them to a huge amount of liability. With as many millions of subscribers (including free trial accounts opened specifically for the purposes of spamming) as MS and AOL have, they stand to lose a lot if the law is passed.\r\n\r\n\"SB 12 allows any Californian who receives unsolicited ads to sue the sender and the advertiser in court for $500 per spam and the judge can triple the fine if he or she finds the\r\nsender willfully and knowingly violates the California ban.\" (bold type mine)\r\n\r\nIf the law is passed, how are AOL and MS going to protect themselves against lawsuits brought against them for spam sent on their servers? By going through everyone\'s email accounts, and verifying that they aren\'t sending spam? And how long will it be before they\'re sued for violating people\'s privacy by doing that?\r\n\r\nAnd I feel like I should take exception to \"...pushing measures to wipe out this bill and every single anti-spam law that states have adopted over the past half-dozen years,\" given that Virginia\'s Anti-Spam Law was signed on the AOL campus.\r\n\r\nIn the interest of full-disclosure, I work for America Online.','2003-06-24 17:33:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3920,1,3676,'12.209.132.54','Plunge','plunge@mac.com','http://chiefwiggles.blogspot.com','I agree that information control is vital, but how do you propose breaking that control that Pyongyang has?','2003-06-24 17:48:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3921,1,3670,'12.87.129.50','Tresho','not@hotmail.com','','This discussion needs context. Some reports of the 507th ambush mention the group had been traveling 60 hours without sleep breaks. They had been stopping to do their jobs - maintenance/repair of other\'s equipment. Where does that leave opportunities for frequent small arms maintenance? How quickly will an M16 get dirty while driving through Iraq? Is it possible to clean an M16 in the dark in a moving Hummvee? ','2003-06-24 18:25:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3922,1,3665,'63.166.226.90','Stephen','stephen@shadowshow.net','http://slapthemonkey.blogspot.com','I find it interesting that the role of these companies (KBR, EODT, etc.) is not restricted to simple logistics / training within the military. The line about EODT handling minesweeping duties, a hazardous, if not necessarily combat oriented role (i.e. people actively shooting at them) struck me in particular. These are companies that have hired ex-military personnel, understand the military culture and mindset, operate within a corporate pseudo-military structure. Sounds like a PMC to me. At what point, I wonder, will companies like this be used to handle more combat focused roles? With the problems that the military has had with recruitment, especially within the reserves, and the idea of a draft unpopular for a host of reasons, will companies like KBR and EODT some day be used to fill the ranks? It raises questions of conflicts of interests, oversight, etc.\r\n\r\nI would agree that it might not be the most efficient use of money, for the reasons you state; these companies can lobby for higher contracts. We saw problems like that in the aerospace industry during the cold war. What makes us think we can\'t see it now? At the same time, from the perspective of the man in the trenches who just needs the job done as quickly as possible with as little noise in the process, I think privatization beats the military peace time mentality hands down. Private contractors have more incentive and make more money. I don\'t think the military is necessarily as flexible. Building a base in 9 weeks in Kuwait, for example, would have been beyond them.\r\n\r\nIt\'s a tough nut to crack. On the one hand outsourcing can get things done more quickly. On the other, the client doesn\'t necessarily have control over the contractor. I see it all the time on a much smaller scale. At some point the contractor can become indispensable. If you don\'t want to pay his fees, he walks. It\'s easy to get stuck in that trap, and I suspect in some ways the U.S. military already has.','2003-06-24 18:34:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3923,1,3670,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Weren\'t the combat formations in front travelling at the same pace? What are the AARs saying about their M-16s?','2003-06-24 18:43:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3924,1,3670,'63.166.226.90','Stephen','stephen@shadowshow.net','http://slapthemonkey.blogspot.com','Wasn\'t there a similar problem with the propellants used in the early .223 ammunition for the M-16 when it was first introduced? I recall something about there being an abundance of old WWII propellant being forced on the military by congress because noone wanted to pay for the stuff. Screwed with the ballistics.','2003-06-24 18:44:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3925,1,3677,'138.133.17.5','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Celeste -\r\n\r\nFrom the language of the bill:(n) \"Sender\" means a person or entity who initiates the transmission of a commercial e-mail advertisement or whose product, service, or Internet Web site is advertised or promoted by the message. A sender does not include a person or entity whose product, service, or Internet Web site is contained in, or accompanied by, a\r\ncommercial e-mail advertisement initiated by a third party where the third party has not obtained authorization from the person or entity to advertise the person or entity\'s product, service, or Internet Web site.
Doesn\'t sound like ISP\'s would be included...\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n','2003-06-24 18:45:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3926,1,3677,'63.166.226.90','Stephen','stephen@shadowshow.net','http://slapthemonkey.blogspot.com','I suspect that AOL and MS are doing this for a couple of reasons. Like any industrial giant they don\'t want any part of their industry regulated by the government. It\'s a one for all mentality. Of course they\'re going to sue spammers, but they don\'t want the government to do it. That just opens to door for increased regulation, and they\'re walking a fine line right there.\r\n\r\nFor another thing, they may want to send unsolicited email at some point and they wouldn\'t want to close that door.','2003-06-24 18:57:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3927,1,3670,'206.149.40.36','tagryn','tagryn@NOSPAMhotmail.com','','John & blaster,\r\n\r\nThe AK-47 may not be as accurate or quite as effective overall as the M-16, but it seemed to serve both sides well in Iraq, where most of the combat was at short range. As noted in http://windsofchange.net/archives/003286.html , a number of our guys riding in Bradleys regularly used captured AK-47s for close-in protection. And Don had an excellent analysis of the range of combat in Iraq at http://www.donaldsensing.com/2003_06_01_archive.html#200378330 :\r\n\"...Almost all [Marine riflemen in Iraq] interviewed stated all firefight engagements conducted with small arms (5.56mm guns) occurred in the twenty to thirty (20-30) meter range. Shots over 100m were rare. The maximum range was less than 300m...\"\r\n\r\nSo, really, criticizing the AK-47 for being inaccurate at long ranges seems to be missing the point. That\'s not what its designed for; at the ranges most of the fighting occurred in Iraq, it appears to have been very well-suited.','2003-06-24 19:25:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3928,1,3670,'64.233.66.58','John','wonderbingo@yahoo.com','','I\'ve read your links. The Bradley crewmen had AK-47\'s because they were better than their Beretta pistols. Entirely true. Our infantry were using M16\'s or the M4 carbine. The AK-47 is adequate at short range, but what happens when you get someone shooting at you from a ways off? I suppose you can get him with a heavy machine gun or grenade launcher, which is what happened most of the time. \r\n\r\nInterestingly, many soldiers started using old M21 rifles or Stoner SR-25\'s. Or just M16\'s with scopes. It\'s not a real sniper rifle, but it\'s better than nothing. \r\nThis May 21 entry over at strategypage.com is illuminating. \r\n\r\n\r\nThe AK-47 will kill you dead. But it is interesting to note that no major power uses it any more. The Russians have the AK-74, which they would love to replace but don\'t have the money. The Chinese have moved to a bullpup design. The AK-47 is a rifle for those who can\'t get anything better. It will work, but it is obselete and not as good as a modern infantry rifle. By way of analogy, in WW2 the British Army used the Enfield bolt action rifle. It worked, but was inferior to the semi- auto American M1 rifle, and very inferior to the fully automatic German STG44, the first assault rifle. \r\n\r\nI like the AK. I have one (the semi- auto civilian version). Ammo is very cheap for it (around $.07 a round mail order.) I can\'t hit small game with it. It is just too inaccurate. I suppose I could hunt deer with it, but I don\'t want to wound the animal and have it run off. My AR-15 (civilian M16) can get small animals, but the bullet is too small for deer hunting, by law. I have an M1A with a scope, which is a semi- auto M14 made by Springfield Armoury. It is a wonderful rifle. Very accurate. It is also very heavy. Not a lot of fun to carry long distances. So I\'d have to say the best rifle, if I were still a soldier (I am now too old, too fat, and too married), would be an M16. It\'s accurate and light. \r\n\r\nBack to the 507th; they were being pushed really hard and probably didn\'t have time for basic maintainence. The problem is, in war, that you can\'t give excuses if you are dead. I\'m not being hard on them. The Iraqi Fedayeen were hard on them. The 507th paid for their mistakes. Hopefully the Army will learn from those. \r\n\r\n','2003-06-24 20:12:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3929,1,3677,'152.163.190.1','Celeste','celeste@windsofchange.net','http://permagringirl.blogspot.com','A.L. -\r\nThanks for the clarification. I confused myself, by looking at the original, not amended, text of the bill, which had the following definition for sender:\r\n(n) \"Sender\" means a person who initiates a commercial e-mail advertisement.\r\n\r\nAnd that was it. There wasn\'t anything in it that would protect ISPs from liability for what their subscribers send out.\r\n\r\nNow that I\'m reading the amended text of SB 12, I think it\'s not that bad. I\'ll have to tend to agree with Stephen, for their likely motives in opposing it.\r\n\r\nNow if only they could do the same thing for actual junk mail - the paper sort that fills up my mailbox and takes up massive amounts of space in my trash.','2003-06-24 20:39:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3930,1,3665,'192.45.72.26','Karl Gallagher','karl.gallagher@ngc.com','','\'Course, those contractors would probably be happy to be under military discipline if they:\r\n1. Got paid a competitive wage for their skills.\r\n2. Got to concentrate on their mission instead of BS paperwork.\r\n3. Got to stay at the same base long enough for their kids to graduate from high school.\r\n\r\nInstead we have a personnel system that pays a skilled engineer the same as a clerk, stresses performance reports and \"sensitivity training\" above doing the mission, and moves everyone to the other side of the continent ever 2-3 years. The contractor system is an attempt to cover some of the holes left by the personnel system.','2003-06-24 21:33:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3931,1,3670,'66.220.231.231','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','John:\r\n\r\nI think you covered all the bases. For whatever reason, the 507th forgot they were in a combat area, and paid for that error. Most of the blame can probably be placed with the CO/ senior NCOs.','2003-06-24 23:29:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3932,1,3665,'172.161.154.9','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','now this entry i mostly agree with. \r\n\r\ni do think there is cause to be a little more optimistic for this kind of outsourcing, if only because there is plenty of room for future improvement. a bit of innovative troop tranformation, from a static force to a more versatile force structure could go a long way in making better use of outsourced military support and contracting. \r\n\r\ni am a bit concerned about the rules governing corporations acting as extensions of our military objectives, but as long as there is decent auditing and attention given to the whole ball of wax i think my concerns can be relatively easily adressed. ','2003-06-25 02:02:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3933,1,3665,'63.226.134.65','shawn randall','mauser7@msn.com','','This is not really a new wrinkle. If you read your history you will find that the US Gov. has been using outside contractors particulary in engineering, for better then 60 years. Many \"civie\" construction workers fought, died and were captured in the Pacific during the first year or so of WWII. And no, I am not talking about the SeaBees. They came about once the actual \"killing and breaking things\" started in earnst on our side. Read the story of Wake Island. Most of the constuction was done by contactors, not the Corp of Engineers. Contractors who didn\'t take that last boat. Or that nuke boat we lost in the early/middle 60\'s. It was on a shake down cruise, with a number of contactor/builder rep\'s on board. So this is not new. But at least it sounds like this time the companies that are hiring on to do these jobs, take the risks seriously.\r\n','2003-06-25 04:23:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3934,1,3665,'208.180.173.3','Phil Fraering','pgf@globalreach.net','http://thenostromo.com/pgf/weblog/','I\'ve been wondering how many of the people who do the work for these companies are senior NCO\'s and\r\nthe like who were good at their technical work in\r\nthe service, but didn\'t advance in rank fast enough\r\nand ran into \"up or out\" rules.\r\n\r\nI don\'t know if it\'s the case, but I wonder.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-25 06:47:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3935,1,3682,'68.40.144.136','Dean Esmay','dean@deanesmay.com','http://www.deanesmay.com','Aw, twern\'t nuthin\'.\r\n\r\nMaybe I\'ll get on that blogroll of yours yet. ;-)','2003-06-25 08:41:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3938,1,3673,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Bad news, weasel. Shouldn\'t have included that URL this time. Today\'s home page entry notes: \r\n\r\n\"A troll whose IP address begins with 195.6... brags about having used my name to post comments on other blogs. I never really commented on other people\'s blogs, and now on, I will simply not.\"\r\n\r\nNow you won\'t either. Your IP address just got banned.','2003-06-25 14:14:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3937,1,3673,'195.6.223.153','blogorrhee','blogorrhee@blogorrhee.net','http://www.blogorrhee.net','*ça c\'est vrai*','2003-06-25 11:00:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3939,1,3673,'63.170.109.103','Joshua Chamberlain','joshua@chamberlain.com','','The conventional wisdom about UBL and Al Qaeda is becoming more and more entrenched, and this paper is typical of the thinking of every counter-terrorism expert in the U.S. government and the policy think thanks.\r\n\r\nI want to hear more about state sponsorship. I want to hear from the \"loose networks\" advocates like George Tenet how UBL and Al Qaeda have been able to do something never before seen: plan and execute the largest terrorist attacks in history without any assistance from a hostile state. I want to understand how Al Qaeda obtains the resources that its needs to operate that the terror groups of the 1970s and 1980s (PLO, Abu Nidal, Abu Abbas, Carlos the Jackal, Bader-Meinoff, IRA, Red Brigades, Hizb\'Allah) needed to get from the Soviet Bloc, Sudan, Libya, Iran or Syria: weapons, training, money laundering, safe houses, passports, visas, unsearchable diplomatic pouches, etc. Somebody needs to explain to me how UBL created in Al Qaeda an \"NGO of terror,\" supported entirely by private, non-governmental resources.\r\n\r\nIt makes no sense. We\'ve never seen it before, and it needs to be explained.','2003-06-25 14:17:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3940,1,3673,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Joe:\r\nAs distasteful as the weasel\'s \"comments\" were, I take them as compliments to the outstanding job Winds of Change does, and he is reduced to insults because he can\'t even come close to presenting a logical argument. \r\n\r\nI don\'t think banning his ISP will prevent his reappearance for long, but at least will make him work a little bit harder to try to bust our balls.\r\n\r\nWhile I would not hesitate to contract the muscles in my forearms if the weasel\'s neck happened to find itself between my hands, I am not obsessed with him, nor do I let his images drive me into a raging frenzy (his most fervent wish, I\'m sure). I also note that no other commenter paid him much attention (a troll\'s nightmare).\r\n\r\nSo when he comes back, we should continue to display our indifference to his cries for attention, and he will shrivel up like a plant without water.','2003-06-25 17:06:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3941,1,3673,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','I didn\'t bust him because he was an idiot - we can deal with those. I busted him(?) for impersonating someone else. Apparently, this wasn\'t the first time either. People like that, we can do without. \r\n\r\nYour advice is sound if our troll returns, but from now on I\'ll be banning on suspicion in this case so it won\'t last long.','2003-06-25 17:19:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3942,1,3682,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','You\'re on the blogroll, Dean - in a new category, no less: \"The Medal of Service\"','2003-06-25 17:21:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3943,1,3665,'131.17.129.22','J S Allison','johnalli@swbell.net','','There tends to be quite a few former military in these kinds of companies. Much cheaper for the company to hire the skills, rather than train them. \r\n\r\nThe downside for the employee tends to be the \'once a noncom, always a noncom syndrome\' and the militaryesque attitudes of management (comprised of former officers with an occasional senior noncom). They tend towards thinking that they retain the authority but don\'t have to sweat that icky responsibility thing.\r\n\r\nI walked away from a lucrative contract overseas because of the inept handling of the human remains department. If I\'m doing a difficult job under challenging conditions and all you offer come contract renewal time is \'same terms take it or leave it, you are easy to replace\' after telling me for a couple of years how monstrously wonderful I was and how we couldn\'t do without me well, color me gone.','2003-06-25 17:52:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3944,1,3670,'216.254.81.130','Nik Willmore','nik@e-dot.com','','I have not had time to read this thread yet but I wanted to drop a pop culture tidbit...that WD-40 was named due to it\'s being page 40 of a researcher\'s notebook of WD = \"Water Displacement\" formulations for use on the M-16 rifle. After the war (Vietnam?), it was resold as a consumer product for bicycles, squeaky hinges, and early assault rifles that you filed the pin off of to make them fully automatic.','2003-06-25 19:48:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3945,1,3665,'131.44.121.100','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://www.overpressure.com','Anybody who thinks that contractors can just lobby their way into more money hasn\'t worked any actual government contracts. \r\n\r\nOutsourcing is good for the military because there is a statutory limit on the number of servicemembers on active duty. If you put an active duty soldier to work doing something a contractor can do, then you have taken that person off the line and you cannot replace them. Except maybe by an activated reserve/guard person. \r\n\r\nAnd that has its own issues.\r\n\r\nThe manpower \"problem\" if you will is one that is codified in law.\r\n\r\nLike the Colombia thing that Rep. Schakowsky is complaining about.\r\n\r\nColombia is not a mission that the military said, hey, that looks cool, lets go do it. It is something that our foreign policy apparatus, as funded by the Congress, does. Congress approved it, but said only 400 soldiers. But the job is bigger than just 400 soldiers - it includes stuff that the State Department is doing. \r\n\r\nI am sure the Army or Air Force or whoever would fly defoliant missions would prefer to have their pilots behind the wheel of a gunship in Afghanistan instead of doing drug interdiction stuff in Colombia.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-25 21:35:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3946,1,3686,'12.109.58.126','PG','pganti@hotmail.com','http://bertrandrussell.blogspot.com','People make the mistake of binary morality because they think it\'s the only way to make an impact on people. \r\n\r\nUnless Ashcroft\'s actions are as bad as it gets, they\'re afraid we\'ll just shrug. \r\nUnless Israel\'s actions are as wrong as Hamas\'s actions, they afraid we\'ll assume Israel is completely in the right and any anger toward them is utterly unfounded.\r\n\r\nAnd looking at how indifferent the American public seems to be about abuses of police power, I can see why exaggeration appears necessary. If you\'re pro-Palestinian and see how much American policy is weighed in favor of Israel, you can think that moral equivalence is justified.\r\n\r\nNo one yet has found a way to have a discussion about Palestinian troubles without someone\'s saying \"Well, they deserve it for the attacks on Israel,\" nor about anti-Israel terrorism without \"This is what people do when they are desperate.\"\r\n\r\nIt\'s like we can\'t contemplate suffering without trying to line it up against something else. We can\'t look at something and say, \"This sucks, we should do something about it\"; we always say, \"This isn\'t nearly as bad as ---\"\r\n\r\nI think if we could stop making comparisons, there would be fewer exaggerations.','2003-06-25 23:15:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3947,1,3686,'63.166.226.115','inkgrrl','kari@Inkgrrl.com','http://www.inkgrrl.com/inkblog.htm','I\'d blogged about something similar to this from a more ad misericordium/emotional perspective last year in a post titled The Sliding Scale of Atrocity, but you\'ve nailed the crux of the meta-issue, as usual.','2003-06-25 23:41:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3948,1,3684,'12.109.58.126','PG','pganti@hotmail.com','http://bertrandrussell.blogspot.com','Like many people more interested in domestic than international affairs, I find \'Brave New World\' a much closer dystopia to our current state of affairs, partly because it predicted what Orwell failed to foresee: what technology would make of us. \r\nHuxley thought that science could change us much more fundamentally than Orwell did. In an Orwellian world, there\'s not much difference between getting your propaganda via radio or TV or PalmPilot; in a Huxleyan world, being able to create new people meant one could create a new world.\r\n\r\nI think Gibson made a mistake in failing to point out the relative powers that various actors have in their access to information. \r\nGovernment has a monopoly on the legitimate use of force, so its access to information about you that it finds problematic has a different effect than your access to information about the government. \r\nMoreover, the free flow of information can be stifled by government power -- witness our lack of knowledge about who is being detained, for what reason or for how long. Even if the governmenmt has put this information into a database, the penalty for hacking into it must be enormous.','2003-06-25 23:47:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3949,1,3684,'138.133.17.10','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','PG -\r\n\r\nAs I noted *below*, there\'s a material point missing in your \"monopoly on the use of physical force\" point...what Weber really said was \"the right to use physical force is ascribed to other institutions or to individuals only to the extent to which the state permits it.\" \r\n\r\nI agree re BNW, but largely because I think Huxley caught the tone of the era better - not fear and grim dispair, but a kind of mindless attraction to the trivial and the pleasurable.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-26 00:07:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3950,1,3686,'208.223.195.2','Anticipatory Retaliation','BravoRomeoDelta@yahoo.com','http://AnticipatoryRetaliation.blogspot.com','There is an interesting tie in between different views of morals and economics. Which, unfortunately, I\'m not slick enough to do concisely.\r\n\r\nAnd I don\'t know how to use the Trackback thingy either.\r\n\r\nSo.\r\n\r\nHere\'s a *LINK*\r\n\r\nIf you\'ve the inclination, drop by and take a peek - I would welcome any commentary.','2003-06-26 00:38:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3954,1,3686,'68.49.135.64','David Foster','photoncourier@yahoo.com','http://photoncourier.blogspot.com','Good post and good discussion. I am reminded of the Communist in Koestler\'s novel \"Darkness at Noon\" who told his prisoner: we must paint the opposition blacker than night, and our side in colors of pure gold, because that\'s the only way the uneducated can be made to understand. (approximate quote).\r\n\r\nThere\'s another side to this, though. From many people, we see an obsessive focus with \"shades of gray,\" as in the desire to show that 9/11 was somehow our fault. This even extends to children\'s books; just yesterday someone criticized Harry Potter for presenting too black & white a view of morality.\r\n\r\nAnalogy: When one becomes a structural engineer, one first learns how to analyze a single force on a single beam--even though there are no real buildings that are that simple. Might the same not be true in the field of ethics--you need to understand black & white *before* you can understand the shades of gray?','2003-06-26 02:53:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3953,1,3670,'24.153.129.58','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://www.overpressure.com','From wd40.com:\r\n\r\nIn 1953, a fledgling company called Rocket Chemical Company and its staff of three set out to create a line of rust-prevention solvents and degreasers for use in the aerospace industry, in a small lab in San Diego, California.\r\n\r\nIt took them 40 attempts to get the water displacing formula worked out. But they must have been really good, because the original secret formula for WD-40—which stands for Water Displacement perfected on the 40th try—is still in use today.\r\n\r\nConvair, an aerospace contractor, first used WD-40 to protect the outer skin of the Atlas Missile from rust and corrosion. The product actually worked so well that several employees snuck some WD-40 cans out of the plant to use at home.\r\n\r\nA few years following WD-40\'s first industrial use, Rocket Chemical Company founder Norm Larsen experimented with putting WD-40 into aerosol cans, reasoning that consumers might find a use for the product at home as some of the employees had. The product made its first appearance on store shelves in San Diego in 1958.\r\n','2003-06-26 02:31:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3955,1,3673,'68.52.70.6','Donald Sensing','thisis@notit.com','http://www.donaldsensing.com/','Joshua, of course OBL had state sponsorship, at least two: Afghanistan and covertly, Saudi Arabia.\r\n\r\nThe difference was that the Taliban were actual allies with OBL (although I read reports that they were beginning to tire of him about a year before the WTC/Pentagon attacks) and Saudi\'s government was buying him off, paying him protection money, as it were. \r\n\r\nBut as Jane\'s Defence documented even before 9-11, OBL had established al Qaeda cells in up to 60 countries by the attacks. OBL funneled money and orders to them.\r\n\r\nWhat Iran\'s direct involvement was, I do not know. I suspect rather more than Saddam Hussein\'s. But I can\'t cite it. \r\n\r\nDon\'t forget Pakistan, which started the Taliban to begin with, ably supported by Saudi money. \r\n\r\nThat\'s all the state sponsorship they needed. \r\n\r\nAnd just because wisdom is conventional does not mean it\'s wrong.','2003-06-26 03:07:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3956,1,3631,'172.167.121.191','Keith','northern_87@yahoo.com','','I have a questions. I hear a lot about MP\'s but I don\'t know much about them. Do they ever engage in firefights? If so, how do they perform and what is there purpose in a combat mode? I thought they just write traffic tickets on bases.','2003-06-26 04:38:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3957,1,3686,'138.88.11.176','Anticipatory Retaliation','BravoRomeoDelta@yahoo.com','http://AnticipatoryRetaliation.blogspot.com','David,\r\n\r\nGood analogy. To take that a smidge further (perhaps a bit further than is warranted) the behavior of a complex structure can be determined (or at least approximated) by modeling the whole as a complex assembly of simpler elements. Just because the whole may not be amenable to a direct mathematical solution doesn\'t mean, however, that the individual elements act the same way. To an uncritical eye, one might deduce that the only reason that the whole cannot be solved directly is because one of the pieces cannot be solved directly. However, this fails to take into account that two simple elements can interact in a way that is indeterminate - thus the whole structure can be much more complex in its behavior than the individual element.\r\n\r\nWow. That was way too verbose.','2003-06-26 05:16:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3958,1,3687,'172.171.232.102','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','There are no words to describe the brilliance that is \"Gay Bar\". It deserves to be all over television.','2003-06-26 14:40:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3959,1,3687,'63.118.119.54','Brian','bwohlgemuth@onlyinternet.net','http://www.woogieworld.org','Oh my lord, this is too damn funny. And I\'m a conservative dammit. :-)','2003-06-26 15:56:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3960,1,3687,'152.163.190.1','Celeste','celeste@windsofchange.net','http://permagringirl.blogspot.com','Score! That\'s hilarious!','2003-06-26 16:29:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3961,1,3685,'63.170.109.103','Joshau Chamberlain','joshua@chamberlain.com','','I think Phil Carter\'s overreacting a bit. For anyone who\'s read combat memoirs, the experiences of the soldiers of the 3 ID will come as no surprise. In fact, you\'ll find similar sorts of observations and complaints in Ambrose\'s \"Band of Brothers.\" In addition, while I believe 3 ID should be sent home to rest as soon as there is a replacement unit available, I think it is really stretching it to suggest that a unit in combat for 4 months is going to be in danger of losing unit cohesion. For example, during WWII, the 3 ID itself was in combat for 531 continuous days, four times longer than what we\'re talking about here! And all of that combat was against German formations infinitely more dangerous than the Iraqi army or Fedayeen Saddam.\r\n\r\nWe should appreciate the sacrifice of the men of the 3 ID. We should also trust Gen. Abizaid to know what he\'s doing.','2003-06-26 16:59:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3962,1,3665,'66.105.113.234','Doug Rivers','drivers@ehdlc.com','','Spent 30 years in the AF interfacing with contractors, often touching directly on he contracting-out issue. Its not simple. As it stands today, the contractors are more efficient (don\'t fight it, they can do it cheaper and usually better) and effective, and the ones I have dealt were perfectly willing to go in harm\'s way - and did. BUT most of the contractor personnel that did that were ex-GIs and if we substantially increased the level of contractor logistics, I believe the ex-GI pool would run out quick and I\'m not so sure that a broader-based civilian pool would be as reliable/courageous. \r\nBut we also must keep wholesale and retail logistics separate. Wholesale could do with more contracting out. The people who man the stateside depots don\'t need to be massively green or blue suit. Where there\'s a chance of combat - reverse that. Another issue is the ever-increasing technology. Some of our airplanes had/have state-of-the-art technology (FLIRS, low light TVs, TF/TA radars, whatever) that breaks in the field. The technology is great, but a lot of times the problem can\'t even be properly diagnosed without a contractor technical specialist - much less repaired. Technology will MANDATE having a contractor presence in the field. You know what. It ain\'t particualrly broken- don\'t fix it.','2003-06-26 17:06:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3963,1,3687,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Brian: I share your views and sentiments- it just goes to show that the Right (for the most part) can laugh at itself (we know the Left is laughing just as hard) But could the Left laugh if the same joke was on a Democrat?','2003-06-26 17:21:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3964,1,3687,'63.118.119.54','Brian','bwohlgemuth@onlyinternet.net','http://www.woogieworld.org','Phil, right now the left would be scurrying into court to have the video banned, the web server admin arrested, and to setup counseling for the victims.','2003-06-26 18:01:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3965,1,3687,'194.154.128.25','hairofthedawg','zzyzzy@yahoo.com','http://www.wildwoodrugby.com','For those who haven\'t seen this version...\r\n\r\nhttp://www.rathergood.com/gaybar/\r\n\r\ncheers,\r\n\r\nDick','2003-06-26 18:07:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3966,1,3687,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Folks, if it was the Left, they\'d laugh too. You could dub this into the recent Democratic Party primary debates, for instance, and it would be almost as hilarious. Or, you could just use Clinton. Bill or Hillary, wouldn\'t matter - but footage of Bill is probably easier to find.\r\n\r\nAnd Dick... sorry, but the version w. Bush & Blair is wayyyy funnier.','2003-06-26 19:10:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3967,1,3687,'194.154.128.25','hairofthedawg','zzyzzy@yahoo.com','http://www.wildwoodrugby.com','Joe, \r\n\r\nI agree and was surprised when others didn\'t. The Viking kittens version was the first I saw and thought it deserved mention.\r\n\r\ncheers,\r\n\r\nDick','2003-06-26 19:30:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3968,1,3665,'68.0.138.207','David Mercer','radix42@cox.net','','I find all this fascinating, especially the historical aspects. Using contractors for combat ops isn\'t at all without precedent: what the heck is the \"letters of marque and reprisal\" clause in the Constitution for otherwise? :-)','2003-06-26 19:49:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3969,1,3665,'68.1.150.42','Lou T Fixer','l.t.fixer@xoxy.net','','Having been a military (20 yrs) and contractor for 13 years supporting military one would expect that I would endorse contracting out. But I don\'t and here\'s why:\r\n\r\nReducing military slots to actual combat slots makes quality of life for a family hell. Op tempo has to be in the middle. Too little equals incompetence, too much equals high turnover and a \"soldier of fortune\" self selection process. But the recruiters promise skills and work after the military - doing what ? Killing? Stateside jobs, depot jobs, and training jobs provide a rotation and family stability needed as well as skills for later in life. They also reduce the potential for a \"military for life\" class of people and provide diversity.\r\n\r\nMilitary contractors have coalesced (under Clintonian bribery schemes like Loral\'s, to call off the anti trust folks) into huge, vertical, dominant and increasingly bloated bureaucracies, that manage to the bottom line, not military preparedness. For example Lockheed years ago made aircraft, and when they sold one, their job was to kick all the suppliers into providing a quality product. They provided COMPETITION both in price and quality. Today the parts are made in another Lockheed Martin division and once the initial contract is awarded NO COMPETITIVE PRESSURE is possible. (My car dealer will gladly give me a car if I agree that I\'d buy parts and service for life only from him. Once I buy it the costs will rise to whatever level can be squeezed out of me. More replacements provide profit so why have reliable systems? Is this a good deal??)\r\n\r\nStability can be provided by civilian government workers but they are managed badly and forget their real goals easily without real military to oversee them. But this is because they are paid a fraction of the contractor wages and thus don\'t keep the best and brightest. Secondly support military have been taken away from the maintainers - those who understand and will go back to using that equipment when their life depends on it. But if you use military people for support \"management\" which requires experience, empathy with the soldier you get lifetime COMPETITION and QUALITY. This means that rather than a one time competition for radar repair, engine overhaul etc. you get recompetition. MOTIVATION, QUALITY and COMPETITION thus come from a mixture of civilian and military supporters.\r\n\r\nI participated in providing spare parts support for an electronics system which, due to priorities in available dollars, was extended in life many times. The manufacturer flat refused to provide support (although some individuals helped the government under the table) because they wanted to sell their new greatest whiz bang system to replace the old one. Corporate policy was to deny help, refuse engineering assistance etc. and the government was forced to hire companies like mine to engineer and qualify new spare parts just to limp along. Corporate profit will drive contractor decisions and lack of COMPETETION will provide them enormous leverage.\r\n\r\nThe theme of this long post is simply that COMPETITION and QUALITY need to be assured from the time systems are initially bought, \'till they go to the boneyard. Outsourcing as practiced today is highly non-competitive and lacks motivations for quality. Continuing blind outsourcing your sons and daughters will use deficient systems and have no other skills after their military service, so if they live long enough, they will be forced back into a mercenary army \'till they do die. And taxpayers will guarantee great incomes for the contractors.\r\n\r\nUnintended consequences abound with mindless outsourcing to huge companies .','2003-06-26 21:00:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3970,1,3668,'69.3.26.78','Green Boy','needlenose@needlenose.com','http://www.needlenose.com','So let me summarize - you like being lied to, particularly if the story resonates?','2003-06-26 21:06:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3971,1,3683,'204.142.130.8','Henry IX','carmich@bigfoot.com','','Just what is meant by \"disappear?\" muslimpundit disappeared without a trace some time ago - and up until the time he showed up as one of the breezes on this site, I checked his site for any traces. Zonitics \"Edward Boyd\" disappeared for some time, with a sort of a promise to return, perhaps. I often (every two, three, four weeks) checked to see if he had reappeared.\r\n\r\nI don\'t know Natalie, but she\'s wrong. \"Everyone\" will not forget.','2003-06-26 21:26:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3972,1,3687,'166.61.238.10','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','But could the Left laugh if the same joke was on a Democrat?\r\n\r\nOh, please. The joke\'s also on Tony Blair who just happens to be on the Left. Despite the more self-righteous, obnxious behavior of some on the Left, most of us have pretty good senses of humor. Could the same be said for the \"Religious\" \"Right\"?','2003-06-26 21:52:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3973,1,3688,'63.88.212.164','Michael J. Totten','michaeltotten001@yahoo.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','It\'s best to buy from the artist when you can. Buying a used CD cuts out both the company and the artist.\r\n\r\nThe Internet may end up undercutting the entire industry soon. If a band like Metallica were to self-produce their own album and sell it online, they would probably sell almost as many copies as if a company produced it for them. And they would make a heckuva lot more money.','2003-06-26 22:09:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3974,1,3686,'207.170.32.179','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Here are some nice shades of grey for you.\r\n\r\nThe DEA is using the RAVE Act to squelch free speech.\r\n\r\nThe government first tries out on the dopers merasures that will later be more widely employed. Of course since America is not Iraq (and may not be for quite some time) there is nothing to worry about. Pay no attention. Move along. It can\'t happen here.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03/n937/a03.html?397\r\n\r\nhttp://www.sptimes.com/2003/06/22/Columns/New_law_isn_t_just_an.shtml\r\n\r\nhttp://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03/n937/a04.html?397\r\n\r\n','2003-06-26 22:40:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3975,1,3670,'24.25.175.189','Chris','Chrisjhickey@yahoo.com','',' I just returned from service with an Infantry battalion that saw a great deal of combat. I also spoke to soldiers from many of the various units that fought. My experience, and that of my comrades, was that with any lubricant, or none at all, the M16A2/M16A4 and the M4/M4A1 are vastly supeior to the poorly made AKs and assorted European weapons we saw on the battlefield. Using live ammunition they almost never jam (with blanks they jam allot). In fact, marksmanship was, in my opinion, uniformly superb.\r\n\r\n I always felt we needed to improve marksmanship training in all the services over where it was just a few years ago. In Operation Iraqi Freedom, America did so in a way that saved countless Coalition and civilian lives. I personally saw accurate fire delivered (from a variety of weapon systems) on targets I could barely make out with binoculars and I know that in close quarter fights in trenches and buildings, American\'s with M4s and M16s time and time again beat enemies armed with every weapon in the book. The 5.56 MM round itself was lethal to a much greater degree than the rounds being shot back at us. \r\n\r\n This success is due to lessons learned from Somali and elsewhere, that resulted in improved techniques and training and in the worlds best close combat optics and night fighting gear.\r\n\r\n I personally carried what had to be one of the oldest M16\'s used in the war, and never had an problems with it in anyway and found it to be more accurate at longer ranges than I had expected.\r\n\r\nChris','2003-06-27 01:06:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3976,1,3688,'12.83.20.238','Peter Koren','p.koren@worldnet.att.net','','As far as popup/popunder ads, I no longer suffer the infestation. I use Mozilla as my browser and set it to not launch popups/popunders.\r\n','2003-06-27 01:49:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3977,1,3688,'172.152.228.230','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','The problem with that is Metallica would have to pay directly to the indies to get onto the radio. Unless, they charge the bands for that as well at the end of the day. I also can\'t be the only person who wonders whether MTV gets kickbacks. Would the industry tolerate free agents?','2003-06-27 01:59:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3978,1,3692,'206.190.18.135','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The rich and well connected have always controlled government. To think it could be otherwise is an illusion.\r\n\r\nWhat this great republic gives us is the chance of ordinary citizen input on issues the citizens can mobilize on.\r\n\r\nDemocracy is a safety valve; it is not the engine.\r\n','2003-06-27 09:34:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3979,1,3692,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','To his credit, Christophe shows a capacity for self-reflection and openmindedness that I frankly didn\'t think he was capable of. Let\'s hope this is the beginning of a trend...','2003-06-27 09:38:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3980,1,3692,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','As for Krugman, as long as he stays on pace, we\'re likely to have one-party rule quicker than he thinks.','2003-06-27 09:50:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3981,1,3692,'68.48.20.182','Ray','ray@princeton.edu','','Kristof\'s very thoughtful and considerate whenever he remembers to be ;-)','2003-06-27 13:32:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3982,1,3692,'208.187.143.166','Charles Rostkowski','chuckr@webpipe.net','','I believe it was Andrew Jackson (D-TN) who made a Democratic Party slogan out of \"To the victors go the spoils\". Krugman\'s schock at Republican hard ball is simply disingenuous. ','2003-06-27 15:11:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3983,1,3688,'207.245.113.120','Undertoad','undertoad@cellar.org','http://cellar.org','listen.com. Rhapsody. $9.99 a month for all the streaming 128k WMA you can eat, .79 a song if you care to burn, and it\'s legal and somebody gets paid.\r\n\r\nThis is getting closer to the models that we demand; it\'s not there yet, but it\'s getting closer. I pay less than a disc per month and I spend about an hour a day of listening. That\'s a fine deal! Plus I get to send a message to RIAA that there ARE models that are consumer-friendly, AND to labels to tell them I\'m not hearing/buying/recommending anything they won\'t allow on the service.\r\n','2003-06-27 16:03:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3984,1,3692,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Mr. Kristof, welcome to reality. On that note, Jeff Jarvis has a really good post up today, with updates from Salam Pax and G. in Baghdad. Read G.\'s article especially.','2003-06-27 16:12:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3985,1,3690,'63.189.0.179','Bart Hall (Kansas, USA)','bart.hall@prairiestarfarm.com','','I would add to this list \'The Unravelling of Latin America.\'\r\n\r\nPay close attention to the emerging Habana-Caracas-Brasilia axis being actively developped by presidents Castro, Chavez, and Lula da Silva.\r\n\r\nDo not ignore the Hizbullah-FARC-narcoterrorist collaboration that has resulted in the development of a terrorist training camp in Mato Grosso state of Brazil. Neither ignore the quiet re-starting of Brazil\'s mothballed nuclear program.\r\n\r\nNow *there\'s* a comforting thought -- lax US immigration meets Hizbullah-trained latino terrorists with access to nuclear materials, or just a bunch of Cuban C-4.\r\n\r\nAdd to this FARC\'s clear involvement in Ecuador and with the attempted resurrection of Sendero Luminoso in Peru; Brazilian interference in Bolivia after an election so close it was settled by the Congress.\r\n\r\nThere are a LOT of quite negative developments in the region, and it doesnot appear that we are yet anywhere near up \'to speed on the magnitude of the problem.','2003-06-27 17:08:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3986,1,3640,'67.225.186.141','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','This is the obverse my response to the question often raised of \"if you\'re going to do X, then why not Y, Z, P, D, and Q, too?\" - IMO the proper response to that is just because we cannot do something everywhere doesn\'t mean we should do nothing in X.\r\n\r\nPeople have a hard time seeing just how big Congo is and the fact that this particular aspect of the situation there isn\'t necessarily the only one in the Congo (news media just happen to have been around to report this particular piece), or throughout a region (just as right now Liberia is getting some notice; \"intervene\" - ok, how? Just to keep a cease fire together until next time - which is how Liberia arrived at where it is now? Or take a side and take the other side out? Or find both sides to be horrible, attrocity-committing scumers and take them both out and then stay to build from scratch?)\r\n\r\nFact is, we have finite resources. IMO if we want to do *IRAQ* right we need to pay more and send more. It\'s easy for some to say \"oh, you just want to let them die in Congo, eh?\"\r\n\r\nNot necessarily. But are the people asking that question willing to pay the price - in considerably higher defense spending, considerably more Americans sent abroad for a considerably longer period of time, and considerably more wounded?\r\n\r\nWe could eliminate the tax cut AND eliminate various social spending programs (both those about to pass *ahem* and those passed or increased in funding over the last couple years), tighten our belts and do what it would take to sort these places out.\r\n\r\nI\'m actually more or less up for it (as I\'ve been writting the last two days on my blog). I just wonder how many of those for whom it is easy to say \"oh, we\'re going to stand by and watch them die\" are willing to commit the resources it takes not just to go in and calm things down for a few months so we feel warm and fuzzy about ourselves (then fly out again, as, IIRC, the last UN presence in this region did) and pat ourselves on the back while it slides back into the status quo ante.\r\n\r\nI also think that those who act as if this is easy and cheap and the only reason we don\'t bother is indifference should at least read this Atlantic Monthly article:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2001/10/langewiesche.htm\r\n\r\n','2003-06-27 17:53:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3987,1,3640,'208.187.72.127','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','This is a case of be careful what you wish for.\r\n\r\nTyranny anywhere is a threat to Americans everywhere. As a policy objective in the War on Terrorism no pirate/terrorist bases will be allowed in Africa to support Al-Qaeda or its mind children.\r\n\r\nMilitary Professional Resources Incorporate (MPRI) was an instrument of American policy in the Balkans and effectively replaced American ground Forces for the Clinton Administration in dealing with the Bosnian Serbs. Operating as a combination of several Special Forces A-Teams and General Staff planning cell, they turned the Croation Army into the forces that shattered the armed forces of the Boslian Serb state-let. This in turn made the Dayton Peace Accords possible.\r\n\r\nGiven the lack of American occupation ground forces, an American PMC approach to dealing with African disorder seem to me to be inevitable.\r\n\r\nThe \"American East Africa Corporation,\" anyone?','2003-06-27 18:12:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3988,1,3692,'207.168.131.162','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','\"So, facts got in the way of my plans for this column. But sometimes that\'s a good thing.\"\r\n\r\nDid he really expect to find a different answer?\r\nDidn\'t he ever hear the saying, \"The enemy of my enemy is my friend\"?','2003-06-27 18:22:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3989,1,3571,'136.2.1.101','_Jon','no@thanks.com','','Considering that the Marines are a Department Of the Navy, does it make sense for the Air Force to become a Department of the Army?\r\n\r\nThe long-term goal is the same - destroy the enemy.\r\n\r\nThe Navy has their own Air Force. Now that I think about it, the Navy is a self-contained military outfit - land, sea, air.\r\n\r\nWhy *shouldn\'t* the Air Force be considered a Department of the Army?','2003-06-27 20:00:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3990,1,3571,'63.229.222.121','Stephen M. St. Onge','saintonge@hotmail.com','','Yeah, it\'s the same ol\' same old.\r\n\r\nThe Air Force exists to bomb things. Give it a transport aircraft, and it designs bombs for it. Give it a \"fighter,\" and it makes it into a \"fighter/bomber.\"\r\n\r\nThe Air Force does not want the A-10 because they can\'t bomb things with it. That\'s their whole argument.\r\n\r\nAnd, if they get their way, they will retire the A-10 and replace it with the F-35 which won\'t be a good CAS plane, and won\'t be a good fighter either, but WILL BE ABLE TO BOMB THINGS. And they will say it is better than any alternative. And they will be right, if by \'better\' you mean \'better at bombing things.\'\r\n\r\nTake CAS away from the Air Force, and give it back to the Army.','2003-06-27 20:40:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3991,1,2296,'206.49.102.172','Syed Ali Kazmi','cyborg1995@hotmail.com','','The message is crystal clear - shall we ever stop lying to ourselves and feed our ego with varying degrees of self-deception?','2003-06-27 20:51:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3992,1,3571,'12.234.92.177','Captain Scarlet','captainscarlet6@aol.com','http://silentrunning.tv','as a former planner for USFK in Korea.. i have to agree with robin. the air force loves the dog fight and hates the ground fight. it was a constant battle to get them to weaponeer their planes for our fight. the CinC was an Army 4 star and the Air Force 3 star never wanted to listen to the CinC about ground support. ','2003-06-28 03:02:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3993,1,3697,'209.83.111.70','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','You wish.\r\n\r\nShort of an East German type border complete with barbed wire, kill zones, mine fields, and attack dogs covering the Mexican border and shores of California you will not keep the Mexicans out.\r\n\r\nA better plan would be to turn them into Constitutional revolutionaries. ','2003-06-28 04:05:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3994,1,3697,'65.102.54.115','chris','cw_nw@yahoo.com','','I think it would be perfectly appropriate to construct a 15 foot wall (with 5 foot long steel palisades lining the top) along the entire U.S./Mexico border, as the cost of construction would be far less than the cost of uncontrolled immigration. The Israelis are cordoning off the West Bank by constructing such a wall (well, without the palisades :) along with trenches and motion detectors. As a result of the earlier construction of a similar wall fencing off the Gaza Strip, there have been no suicide bombers who have entered from Gaza. \r\n\r\nConsidering that most Mexicans aren\'t terrorists, in our case, the goal wouldn\'t be to completely cut off entry. The entry points would be the current border checkpoints along major highways.\r\n\r\nI\'m not in favor of prohibitting all immigration, but I think it\'s imperative that we establish both control over who enters and stricter conditions for immigration. I think that there should be a ceiling upon the number of new permanent residents (100,000 a year sounds reasonable). We should give priority to those who are highly skilled and who already speak English, and require that they have a long-term job already waiting for them. I favor eliminating bi-lingual education, denying automatic citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants, launching a nationwide sweep upon illegals immediately after the construction of the aforementioned wall, and devising a new policy to settle refugees in places that serve as a better cultural fit than the U.S. \r\n\r\nIf we can pull this off, within a generation, America should become a significantly less ethnically and culturally Balkanized place.','2003-06-28 05:30:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3995,1,3697,'66.32.188.60','clue','clue@bcke.com','','In regards to significantly reducing the immigration of unskilled laborers, illegal and legal alike, the basic question always comes down to:\r\n\r\n\"How much are you willing to pay for a head of lettuce?\"','2003-06-28 06:08:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3996,1,3694,'130.253.204.194','jb','jb@ritingonthewall.com','http://www.ritingonthewall.com','i thought george martin was \"the 5th beatle\".\r\n\r\nshrug.\r\n\r\ninteresting one way or the other.','2003-06-28 09:07:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3997,1,3693,'212.72.5.37','ali','alishe@hotmail.com','','Until when will you beseech God, \r\nas Moses did, to show Himself \r\nRather, with your own existence,\r\nlight the fire on Sinai \r\n\r\nIqbal','2003-06-28 12:43:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3998,1,3697,'208.187.143.148','Charles','chuckr@webpipe.net','','There is an anger building among residents of those communities that have been overrun in the past decade by Hispanic immigration. In Ogden, Utah where I live the Hispanic population has reached 25% and it continues to grow. In the past year there were two sensless crimes of random violence committed by Hispanic gangs. I sat in court while the families of one of the victims of those crimes spoke at the sentencing of one of the \"perps\". The anger was thick and I suspect will not go away anytime soon. As VDH suggests, Mexican immigration is an issue we will have to tackle soon or the Balkans will be upon us before we know it. ','2003-06-28 14:55:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(3999,1,3697,'165.247.80.251','Hale Adams','ahadams1@ix.netcom.com','','I agree that we may have problems on the horizon about groups of immigrants who refuse to assimilate. But is that because we have relatively free immigration, or is it because we have too many people in positions of authority (in academia as well as in government) who don\'t insist that these immigrants assimilate? (Indeed, they often PROMOTE separateness as a way to further their own careers. But then, I\'m only restating the obvious, I guess.)\r\n\r\nI do know one thing, though. I would say to the Pat Buchanans of this country, who want to send the latest bunch of immigrants \"home\" to whatever hell-hole they came from, \"Why don\'t YOU go \'home\' to Ireland/Poland/Russia/Germany/Italy, you \'stinking immigrant\'?\"\r\n\r\nHale Adams\r\n(Most of MY ancestors made it to these shores prior to 1700. Take THAT, Mr. Buchanan! Go \'home\' to Ireland, you new-arrival.)','2003-06-28 15:01:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4000,1,3697,'208.186.193.35','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','M. Simon,\r\n\r\n The means exist to control our borders, given the political will.\r\n\r\n Consider what has happened in Arizona when the locals in Texas and California finally forced the Federal government to put in real border barriers and controls. The coyotes who move large numbers of people basically shifted their operations from Texas/California to Arizona because the risk/profit ratio was better there.\r\n\r\n Yes, we will never stop all illegal immigration, but stopping 70% or more of it is both possible and very much worth doing. If we are good enough at doing it to make it less costly for Mexicans to use legal immigration than illegal, then the coyotes are done and the problem is solved.\r\n\r\n My point is that the techtonic plates of politcal will are moving and VDH is the voice of that cultural shift.','2003-06-28 15:08:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4001,1,3696,'24.71.52.32','Nero','jennlayn@hotmail.com','http://www.proudcanadiangeek.tk','If that happenes to me I wouldn\'t ever get married either. What a terrible thing to do. If one is not happy they should say something and then say, hey you know what? I thought about cheating on you, that\'s how upset I was about this, that\'s usually more than enough to get someone to smarten up. Worked for my best friend\'s husband.','2003-06-28 16:04:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4002,1,3690,'24.90.111.72','Randy Paul','randinho@yahoo.com','http://beautifulhorizons.blogspot.com','>Brazilian interference in Bolivia after an election so close it was settled by the Congress.\r\n\r\nProof?\r\n\r\n>Do not ignore the Hizbullah-FARC-narcoterrorist collaboration that has resulted in the development of a terrorist training camp in Mato Grosso state of Brazil.\r\n\r\nProof?\r\n\r\n>Neither ignore the quiet re-starting of Brazil\'s mothballed nuclear program.\r\n\r\nHasn\'t happened. The Minister of Science made mention of it and it was quickly kiboshed with a major retraction. A few kooks talk about it on occasion, but it hasn\'t happened.\r\n\r\n>Pay close attention to the emerging Habana-Caracas-Brasilia axis being actively developped by presidents Castro, Chavez, and Lula da Silva.\r\n\r\nWrong again. Lula has moved towards the center, he met with Bush for the third time last week and he has succeeded in pissing off the most fervent, doctrinaire members of the PT. Why take my word for it when you can check it out here. Castro is busy alienating his largest group of trading partners (the EU) on whom he now depends and Chávez has two problems: 1.) an economy that contracted 29% in the past year and 2.) facing aa plebiscite that if he blocks it, will cause him to lose the support of the OAS (who brokered the deal) and may very well toss him out of office. Neither of them have the resources to do much of anything, despite whatever revenue may flow to Venezuela through the oil purchase negotiated by Jack Kemp recently.\r\n\r\nEarly in Lula\'s presidency Chávez, made a statement that Chávez, Lula and Castro should form an \"Axis of Good.\" That\'s as far as it went. Lula has won over the financial markets since then and received a lot of support from the center, including having a centrist party in Brazil join his coalition and a far left one leave his coalition. I don\'t always agree with Lula, but there is one indisputable fact about him that clearly distinguishes him from Castro and Chávez: he has always sought to achieve his goals through democratic means. Why would he abandon this now? The only thing that the US should be concerned about with Lula are his efforts to unite Mercosur and the Andean trade groups to deal with the US head on in the negotiations for the Free Trade Association of the Americas. They want to challenge the US on the protectionist policies, especially regarding steel and agriculture.\r\n\r\nYes there are problems in South America, especially with the Andean countries: Peru, Colombia and Venezuela all have serious problems, but the Southern Cone countries are making strides. Argentina has elected a president who so far has given the impression that he is dedicated to transparency. The jury is still out on Paraguay\'s new president who certainly has a tough job ahead of him. There is unrest in Bolivia, but that is hardly new and Chile continues to be a model for much of the region.\r\n\r\nThe gravest problems in Central America are in Guatemala, where corruption and support from narcotraficantes combined wth the attempted reemergence of the most human rights abusive leader in the 1980\'s appears to be setting things back.','2003-06-28 20:43:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4003,1,3693,'4.60.16.51','Samuel Tai','taiss@gte.net','','This sounds a lot like the Tao Te Ching:\r\n\r\nThe Way that can be experienced is not true;\r\nThe world that can be constructed is not real.\r\nThe Way manifests all that happens and may happen;\r\nThe world represents all that exists and may exist.\r\n\r\nTo experience without abstraction is to sense the world;\r\nTo experience with abstraction is to know the world.\r\nThese two experiences are indistinguishable;\r\nTheir construction differs but their effect is the same.\r\n\r\nBeyond the gate of experience flows the Way,\r\nWhich is ever greater and more subtle than the world.\r\n','2003-06-28 20:43:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4004,1,3697,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','I don\'t disagree entirely with Trent Telenko\'s basic thesis here (and VDH\'s) regarding the defeatist, segregationist effects that at least some aspects of multiculturalism can have upon immigrant groups, and Latinos in particular, and Mexicans/Mexican Americans more in particular. However, a number of assumptions (some would say stereotypes) and inferences are either clearly wrong or grossly oversimplified, leaving me with the impression that VDH and I did not grow up in the same California.\r\n\r\n1. Multiculturalism is hardly new. That\'s why Americans have historically been proud of their ethnic heritage and often identify themselves as Irish-Americans, Italian Americans, Jewish Americans, Chinese Americans, etc. Sometimes, they even have their own parades or sections in a multiethnic parade. As much as multiculturalism can go overboard in its tolerance of the intolerable (or the plain stupid), multicultural bashing can go overboard as well in its intolerance of the tolerable.\r\n\r\nMy experience of multiculturalist attitudes– even in their most flaky let\'s-all-hold-hands Californian manifestations – is that they tend to co-opt foreign ethnicities through inclusiveness into a common, dominant, host culture that is in fact hardly multi-ethnic in nature, but rather follows a distinctly American tradition of Anglo-Saxon tolerance. In this sense, multiculturalism can be a force for assimilation.\r\n\r\nThat is where VHD\'s reference to France\'s unassimilated Muslim communities holds only limited water: France, unlike America, is not multiculturalist – it is exclusionary - and this holds for most of Europe outside of Great Britain. Not coincidentally, the UK has been far more successful in assimilating immigrant groups than any other European country and is easily the least racist country in Europe and probably, together with the US, in the entire world (leaving aside a few special cases, such as Singapore).\r\n\r\n2. The implication that the notion of \"La Raza\" implies racial supremacy is false. To my knowledge, la Raza comes from the Latin American expression for Columbus Day, \"El Día de la Raza\", known in Spain as \" El Día de la Hispanidad\". The Spanish proposed this as a day for celebration of common Hispanic heritage to certain Latin American countries – I believe Mexico was first – at the beginning of the century and it was adopted in most of Latin America as \"El Día de la Raza\". The reference to \"Raza\", meaning \"Race\", was to provide a unifying concept of identity to mestizo peoples who regarded (and correctly so) the Spaniards as the original conquerors. Given that there are hundreds of distinct tribes indigenous to Latin America racially intermixed with dozens of European and other groups (including blacks, Asians and Arabs) all of whom are part of La Raza, the construct is not really racial. An imperfect analogy would be to describing all indigenous Indian groups in the U.S. and Canada as a unified civilization of \"Native Americans\". The analogy is imperfect in that La Raza is more of a cultural than a racial concept and some would say that the vast majority of Native Americans live South of the Rio Grande. I might agree, nevertheless, with the rightwing politically correct that, at least in a U.S. context, the term could be regarded as offensive. (So, let\'s ban it!)\r\n\r\nThe real problem of racism among Mexicans is what is referred to as \"auto-racismo\" or \"self-racism\". Mexicans themselves are far more racist in their own domestic context than Americans will ever be and the racism is directed towards those with darker or more \"Indian\" complexions. (Think Malcolm X ogling white women from his jail cell.) Whiteness is equated with greater intrinsic worth and this leads to a national problem of self-image. There are a great number of \"Indian jokes\" in Mexico making fun of indigenous Mexicans. The problem is that those making the jokes are usually at least half-Indian themselves. The self-deprecation phenomenon is less apparent in the U.S., probably thanks in no small measure to those misguided multiculturalists. \r\n\r\n3. It is misleading to equate European anti-Americanism to its Mexican counterpart. While there are some shared characteristics, Mexico lost one-third of its territory to the U.S. in the Mexican-American War, the U.S. has historically posed a real (not imagined) military threat to Mexico, intervened in the Mexican Revolution, invaded Veracruz in the Tampico Incident, not to mention the tensions created by Cardenas\' nationalization of the oil industry in the 1930s. The Mexican Constitution forbids foreigners (read \"Americans\") from owning land within 100 kilometers of the border or 50 kilometers of the coastline. Mexican anti-Americanism may sometimes border on the paranoid, but there is definitely a history there.\r\n\r\n4. The vision of Mexican immigrants (both legal and illegal) as largely unassimilated and resistant to assimilation of the local culture is contrary to my experience. (The example of the illiterate farmworker who doesn\'t speak English after 20 years is hardly convincing. Often, his children do not even speak Spanish. In fact, despite widespread assumptions and Latino group claims to the contrary, the vast majority of Mexican Americans no longer speak fluent Spanish by the age of 18.) I am also baffled as to why and how the problems of assimilation that DO exist can be attributed to a supposed overdose of multiculturalism or cultural relativism.\r\n\r\n5. I focus here on my experience of Mexicans, and Mexican Americans, rather than \"Latinos\" as that seems to be VHD\'s primary focus, even if he is making a larger point about Hispanics and third-world immigrants generally. In part, it is also that I find it impossible to compare Mexicans with Argentines, Cubans or Puerto Ricans, all of whom are entirely distinct groups that have about as much in common as Parisians, Moroccans and Haitians. The category \"Hispanic\" is more a political construct than a cultural reality. \r\n\r\nFinal note: When I listen to (Mexican) Spanish language radio in California, I can\'t avoid noticing how much of the agenda concerns topics, such as child abuse, Ritilin treatment for hyperactive kids, the pros and cons (mostly the pros) of abortion, and other specifically American political and social themes - treated in distinctly American terms of debate – that are non-existent in Mexico, at least in such form. It is true that the agenda is dominated by a more liberal viewpoint, perhaps naturally so, but it is distinctly American. I suggest that VHD and Trent Telenko\'s case is somewhat exaggerated and, in any event, overlooks some of the background mentioned above.\r\n','2003-06-28 21:15:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4005,1,3693,'172.152.107.52','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','i hope you do realize that while sufism is undoubtedly the mystic heart of islam, it is not limited to islam. sufism stands apart from islam as well as within it. the confusion i think stems from what is best said by an essential bit of advice in the sufi tradition: wherever you find yourself, put the holy book of that land on your mantle place, and continue to seek the truth within. (yes i am paraphrasing, but its a pretty basic sentiment). \r\n\r\nto be fair, we really must ask ourselves whether our association of sufism with islam is implicit or whether it is simply the result of most sufis happening to live within the islamic world. \r\n\r\nthere is a wealth of wisdom and culture to appreciate in islam and a sufi would of course make use of that. but a sufi also knows that there are many levels to wisdom. some obvious on the surface, some hidden beneath layers of code. a good example of this would be the arabian nights (which many people dont realize is a sufi text)... the stories within function as allegory and achieve a good purpose. yet hidden within is layer after layer of additional wisdom. the entire collection is literally written in code.\r\n\r\nit is not hard to see a connection between claiming the holy practices of the land you live in as your own and keeping your more intimate belief close to your heart but hidden in plain view from those that might react with hostility or even violence to a tradition of questioning, passionate living, and a personal relationship with the divine that allows for no other authority. so is sufism actually islamic? i would say no. however islam would not have a mystic heart without it. ','2003-06-28 22:09:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4006,1,3693,'172.152.107.52','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','by the way, i absolutely agree with your samuel. it is a lot like the essense of the tao. honestly, it is wrong for us to even call anyone sufi, because there is really no such thing. it is just a bit of shorthand we use for the sake of conversation.','2003-06-28 22:11:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4007,1,3697,'151.203.231.164','klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','Why don\'t you and Hanson tell it to these guys:\r\n\r\n Cpl. Jose A. Garibay 21 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment Orange, California Killed in action near Nasiriya on March 23, 2003 \r\n \r\n 1st Sgt. Joe J. Garza 43 1st Battalion, 30th Infantry Regiment, 3rd Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division Robstown, Texas Killed on April 28, 2003, when he was struck by a civilian vehicle \r\n \r\n Pfc. Juan Guadalupe Garza Jr. 20 1st Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division Temperance, Michigan Killed in action on April 8, 2003, in central Iraq \r\n\r\nJust to take three in order off the alphabetical list of casualties.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/\r\n\r\nEven my son\'s squad leader, now in Baghdad, is a Mexican from the Yucatan, not even a U.S. citizen yet.\r\n\r\nWho\'s going to fight all these imperial wars that Hanson and you are so in love with?\r\n\r\nHow about a battalion of right-wing bloggers?\r\n\r\nC\'mon now, you can get a direct commission in an Army reserve or National Guard unit if you\'re not too old.\r\n\r\n','2003-06-28 22:32:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4008,1,3692,'151.203.231.164','klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','Krisof\'s been there. And, like Thomas Friedman, he notes that piss poor planning has led us to the edge of disaster in Iraq.\r\n\r\nWe can\'t even get the U.S. message out, weren\'t even doing TV broadcasting until a week or so ago, and even now only a few hours per day of rehashed entertainment programming.\r\n\r\nI assumed that we would have a public information and broadcasting apparatus that would follow the troops up to Baghdad, broadcasting on all channels. Instead, flailing f-ups and delays in this and almost every sector of nation-building.\r\n\r\nAs others have pointed out, however, this crowd running the USA now is hostile to the idea of government. They are not the New Dealers who stepped into rebuilding Germany and Japan in 1945. Their solution to every problem is cutting capital gains and inheritance taxes.','2003-06-28 23:15:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4009,1,3697,'216.190.135.60','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Gabriel Gonzalez,\r\n\r\n Your translations of \"La Raza\" isn\'t what Hanson is talking about. Rather, he is referring to the \"let\'s steal back the southwest from the gringos\" activists he has seen in the California universities.\r\n\r\n They are the left wing/latino \"blood and soil\" counterparts to the anglo \"Buchannon Wall\" brigades.\r\n\r\n Hanson\'s book as opposed to the article clips I have posted and linked too, goes into the very assimulative effects of American popular culture that you talk about.\r\n\r\n Much of the problems we are having with young latino males is universal with all males. For the last 20 odd years the public school system has given up its role as a civilizer of young men. Now those men are reaching college age with very little in the way of impulse control.\r\n\r\n\r\nklaatu,\r\n\r\n Get a life. Neither Hanson nor I am Patrick Buchannon. Take your straw men elsewhere to beat up.\r\n\r\n \r\n \r\n ','2003-06-28 23:54:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4010,1,3697,'216.190.135.60','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Gabriel Gonzalez,\r\n\r\n>It is misleading to equate European anti-\r\n>Americanism to its Mexican counterpart. \r\n\r\nNo, Hanson is correct here. \r\n\r\nWhatever the historic roots, anti-Americanism in both places is used by the elites as an excuse or booggie-man to ignore/deflect domestic problems.\r\n\r\nAnd in both places its resolution will only come via regime change.','2003-06-28 23:59:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4011,1,3697,'207.170.32.114','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Trent,\r\n\r\nI\'ve changed my mind.\r\n\r\nIf they can stop illegal drugs from coming in there is no doubt that illegal people can be stopped. As we all know Americsa has stopped all cross border drug traffic and has been drug free since 1995. At least according to Congressional promises of the 80s. Let us hope they do as well with people trafficers.\r\n\r\nAs to building a big fence. Once the fence is up it will need to be patrolled. You got any idea how many people will be required for 24/7 coverage of a 4,000 mile fence? Say 10 people per mile for 3 shifts. Times 7/5 to allow for weekends off. That is about 200,000 troops. (Actually the fence eventually will have to be twice as long as the smugglers try the easy ways first).','2003-06-29 00:29:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4012,1,3697,'80.13.121.151','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','La Raza: Hanson may be referring to the phenomenon you mention - which I would describe as both extremist and marginal - but suggests that the term is per se racist. It can be appropriated that way, and might even fairly be described as inappropriate, but there is more background to it and the term is widespread and has been in use without those connotations for a long time. My point was limited to that.\r\n\r\nMulticulturalism: I think the assimilationist effects are not merely limited to pop culture. Maybe we are speaking at cross purposes or I am focusing on a different part of the multiculturalist spectrum than you are. I still think that multiculturalism derives from principles of liberal democracy, perhaps pushed to extremes. I also view it as a distinctly American (or at least Anglosphere) phenomenon that has nothing to do with, for example, transnationalism.\r\n\r\nAnti-Americanism: Yes. In the respect you mention, there is a similarity. Again, I was trying to bring more perspective and I think there are actually substantive differences in the manifestation of Anti-Americanism in Europe (France in particular) and Mexico. There has been some debate in Mexico on the very point you mention: using it to divert blame.\r\n\r\nMexicans, unlike the French, are extremely distrustful of authority and of their government - for good reason. They may dislike Americans for historical reasons and, in part, for the reasons you mention. But they pretty much separate blame for their own domestic mess from aversion to Americans (in a way that I don\'t think the French, for example, do). \r\n\r\nTheir are also basically two sets of elites in Mexico: Traditional old money elites, whose reference is the grand culture of Europe, and modernist elites, more new money, who regard the U.S. as their reference. The former tend to be far less anti-American. But of course I\'ve heard it said that no self-respecting Mexican cannot not be anti-American.','2003-06-29 00:43:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4013,1,3697,'209.83.111.76','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','I forgot to add in another 20% for reserves sickness leaves, training etc. That is up to 250,000. Figure a cost per person of $100,000 per year including salaries, vehicles, training, buildings, etc. That is a running cost of $25 billion per year. Probably doubling once the 8,000 mile job is done. Pensions probably extra. You got any idea how many carrier battle groups we could support with the same money? Don\'t we need them more?\r\n\r\nI also forgot the easiest way to evade the patrols. Bribery. Just what we need. Another corrupt Federal Department.\r\n\r\nDid I mention that by making so expensive to get in few will want to leave once they get here? As usual with any socialist plan backed by guns the incentives are all in the wrong direction. The coyotes (the capitalists) will defeat the border patrol (the socialists) every time. Did I mention the war on drugs?\r\n\r\nI still think there are not enough Spanish speaking Americans spreading the words of Thomas Jefferson. Assimilation is the answer. ','2003-06-29 00:50:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4014,1,3697,'80.13.121.151','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Correction: \"The LATTER tend to be far less anti-American\"','2003-06-29 00:55:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4015,1,3698,'208.187.143.61','Charles','chuckr@webpipe.net','','The Democrats need only look to the mid century Republicans to see their future. In the 1930\'s the nation faced two crises: the Depression and the rise of European fascism. The Republican leadership took neither seriously and led the party down a blind alley. For the next forty years or so (until the election of Ronald Regan) the Democratic Party set the national agenda. During those forty years Americans considered Republicans penny pinching isolationists. These views stem from a time when the nation faced serious crises and one political party (the Republicans) simply refused to take those crises seriously. Now the Democrats are on a similar path. Their concern for union jobs during the Homeland Security debate sealed their fate. Their current movement toward Dean simply compounds that fate. Who, among the Democratic leadership, can come forward as an expert on and committed to national security? That is their dilemma. Trent, I\'m with you and I\'ve already bet the farm on a Bush sweep. ','2003-06-29 01:51:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4016,1,3693,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net/','Balagan,\r\n\r\nI\'m always wary of trying to define a religious movement out of existence, or out of its self-claimed category. It\'s especially wrong when that attempt comes from outside the religious movement itself. Tread carefully there... not out of fear but out of the same respect you\'d want for yourself.\r\n\r\nThat said, you\'ve actually hit upon a very complex question. Suffice to say that many Sufi orders regard the basics of Islam as their foundation, and believe that access to Sufiism as a serious quest is not possible outside of an Islamic context. There are also historical precedents worth consulting. Suffice to say that many Sufis see themselves in very explicitly Islamic terms. \r\n\r\nAt the same time, their tradition of seeking direct access to the essence of the divine of necessity transcends specific religious training, and they also acknowledge this. There is even a Sufic joke around the concept of asking \"what is a Sufi\" - and the question itself is the joke, because the realized Sufi IS NOT (in the same sense that Ab\'il Khair WAS NOT).\r\n\r\nThe whole issue is complicated by the fact that not everyone who assumes the mantle of a Sufi really merits the term.\r\n\r\nWhich is a short way of saying that you\'ve taken us into very deep waters indeed, that getting safely back to shore requires a lot of background, and that a deeply true answer to your question is probably difficult to answer or communicate outside the Sufi quest itself.','2003-06-29 02:48:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4017,1,3694,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Usually, people mean Pete Best when they use that term, though George Martin was truly indispensible. I highly recommend the CD \"George Martin: In My Life,\" which has a number of artists under his direction recording Beatles\' songs. Some very surprising performances from people you wouldn\'t think were capable of what they achieve here.\r\n\r\nIt was his last album before deafness took his hearing away.','2003-06-29 03:26:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4018,1,3697,'209.83.111.76','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','We have to get used to the fact that Mexico and America are now economically integrated. Social integration is well along and political integration is bound to follow.\r\n\r\nNo fence or East German style border is going to change that. The process is too far along.\r\n\r\nThe question now is not how to stop the process. With such a long border and so much cultural integration already you can\'t. Mexicans blend in.\r\n\r\nMuch better to put your efforts into how we will make them Americans. I see nothing wrong with another 70 or 100 million Americans in the world. Especially if they conquer Mexico and points South by the force of American ideas.\r\n\r\nThe only question is: Canada first or Mexico first?\r\n\r\nIn the end the logic is that powers must (or tend to be) continental. In the American case it will be two continents. The American advantage is that there are only three major languages. English, Spanish, and Portugese. Europe is fractured by a number of languages as is the Russian empire. Africa is a basket case and the East has Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Indian etc. Then you have the Africans, hopeless. Followed by the lands of Islam, held back by their beliefs.\r\n\r\nLook for the empire of the Americas to dominate the world. Thank you Munroe. Our allies will be Spain, Britain, Australia, Portugal. All former naval masters (I include Austrailia in the naval masters category because of what it did in WW2)and mother countries of the Americas. ','2003-06-29 04:23:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4019,1,3697,'209.83.111.76','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Of course Australia isn\'t a mother country. However, since they too got their start as a dumping ground for criminals we are glad to have them in the grand world conspiracy. Did I mention Israel? They punch very far above their weight.','2003-06-29 04:29:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4020,1,3571,'68.13.192.6','Wind Rider','wind.rider@silentrunning.tv','http://silentrunning.tv','Looks like everyone has had a lot of fun here with the A-10 football. \r\n\r\nI\'d have to say that Scarlet is probably right about it being a constant fight to get the AF to weaponeer for \"their fight\", probably because their idea of weaponeering is usually pretty myopic. That and that they inherently don\'t seem to trust the AF can deliver if simply given a requirement, with out also being given specific instructions how to carry it out. This is known as telling the other guy exactly how to suck eggs. \r\n\r\nAnd its also the reason the Army lost the airplanes in the first place - the groundpounder\'s view of the proper employment of airpower, which looks remarkably like the groundpounder\'s view of tube artillery, or mess kits, for that matter. You assign it to the coprs, division, or battalion level, and they are the only ones that get to use it, unless you get into a really stylized mother may I dance. \r\n\r\nWith some of the complimentary weapons coming online to go along with the F-22, the F-35, the F-15E, and the Super Hornet - the CAS mission will be covered, a couple of ways to Sunday. And I still have yet to see anyone mention the C-130U in all this back and forth. \r\n\r\nJeez, you guys might as well be carrying on about the claw hammer being the ultimate tool for putting in drywall screws.','2003-06-29 04:55:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4021,1,3697,'165.247.36.192','Joseph Hertzlinger','jhertzli@ix.netcom.com','http://hertzlinger.blogspot.com','Using the disastrous effects of combining muliculturalism and immigration as a reason to restrict immigration is similar to getting a hangover after drinking scotch and soda and resolving to give up soda. If we stop immigration and continue to let left-wing loons run the schools, they\'ll come up with other ways to stir up trouble (they can use ehtnic groups already here or provoke a fight between \"red states\" and \"blue states\"). If we tar and feather multiculturalists and continue immigration, the immigration will be harmless.\r\n\r\nBTW, immigration does not mean the left will win more elections. The left was most entrenched when immigration was restricted.\r\n','2003-06-29 05:17:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4022,1,3699,'24.198.153.225','Jim H.','jharrin1@maine.rr.com','','Mostly a lurker. But, instant expanding posts work great in Safari.','2003-06-29 05:27:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4023,1,3571,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','C-130 Spectres are counter-insurgency aircraft, incredibly useful in low-threat environments but rather expensive. One does NOT send them in to go after, say, dug-in Republican Guard divisions. They\'re great aircraft, and we should have more, but they don\'t replace the A-10.\r\n\r\nThe \"complementary weapons\" you speak of... it would help if you were more clear about what you envision, exactly. More precision weapons on multi-role aircraft just entrenches the procurement death-spiral of fewer and fewer weapons that are more and more expensive. That is not a good trend, for a whole host of reasons.','2003-06-29 05:53:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4024,1,3693,'68.161.121.59','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','\"At the same time, their tradition of seeking direct access to the essence of the divine of necessity transcends specific religious training, and they also acknowledge this.\"\r\n\r\nAll mystical traditions I have explored end up saying pretty much the same thing, in different words and with different cultural flavors. As Rabbi Zalman Schachter put it, the nutrients of \"experience of the divine/unknowable/whateveryouwantocallit are the same, but the cuisines are different.\r\n\r\nThis is not to say cuisine is not important - none of us want to get our nutrition from gray mush, and we all have very specific ideas of what is flavorful and comfort food. We will continue to seek spiritual experience from different traditions, but when you compare their descriptions of mystical experience, they are very similar.\r\n\r\nThe exoteric traditions of each religion are more different and can often be hostile to each other, but the mystics of each religion are like pure scientists - they just want to get together and compare notes and keep exploring.','2003-06-29 06:51:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4025,1,3696,'68.161.121.59','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','This is one of the best things I\'ve ever read about marriage (via Real Live Preacher, one of the best blogs out there.)','2003-06-29 06:53:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4026,1,3697,'24.210.247.181','some guy','no@email.com','','Nothing will ever be done about illegal immigration.\r\n\r\nDemocrats view illegal immigrants as potential welfare clients and voters.\r\n\r\nRepublicans want to ensure a steady supply of cheap labor for their corporate buddies. \r\n\r\nNeither wants them to go away. The plutocrats and the race hustlers won\'t stand for it. ','2003-06-29 06:56:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4027,1,3688,'24.80.23.100','Jay Currie','jay-currie@shaw.ca','http://www.jaycurrie.com','Can we say \"desperate bluff\"?\r\n\r\nThe cost of litigating a couple of thousand lawsuits against defendants who are, at best, young and struggling would be silly. So would the delights of suing little Billy for his 400 shared songs - at a $150,000.00 per count that is a $60,000,000.00 lawsuit.\r\n\r\nThe RIAA realizes that even if the ITunes experiment works no one is ever going to buy much more than the hits from a given artist. Which means the aggregation of the hits with the rubbish is over. How many pop CDs do you listen to all the way through more than, say, once?\r\n\r\nCDs are the business model. Even with the silly cuts the Record companies take on ITunes, a couple of bucks versus 10-12 wholesale on a CD is a huge revenue cut.\r\n\r\nWorse, if ITunes takes off as the \"legit\" end of music and there is a windows version launched why would any artist sign with a record label? Or at least sign for more than an album or two.\r\n\r\nThe internet, with the capacity to share tunes and talk about artists and find people with similar tastes eliminates the need for record companies promotional and marketing efforts, (which are losing credibility as more and more teen product is floated and sinks on contact with actual teenagers,)\r\n\r\nFinally, the record companies whip hand used to be the fact they would finance the recording, engineering and mastering of records. All hugely expensive and requiring hours of time in high rent studios. Now a lot, if not all of that production work can be done on a sub $1000.00 computer.\r\n\r\nWhen you are holding a pair of twos raising the bet shows confidence...or desperation.','2003-06-29 07:13:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4028,1,3698,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','OK, I\'m gonnma have to get my \'02 taxes done and start doing some writing...\r\n\r\nTrent is, as usual both right and wrong. Then again, so is pretty much anyone else who talks about anything more complex than AAA baseball.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-06-29 07:35:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4029,1,3698,'172.152.107.52','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','i have a feeling that the dems are definately going down the same path as the mid 20th century republicans. i dont think however that the republicans will be as dominant as the dems were. if there is any lasting trend to be seen in our current politics it is the sharp rise in personalization and information sharing. the entire blog phenomenon is just one small part of this. id be very happy to see the emergence of real (non-fringe wacko) alternatives to the democrats and republicans. both of the big parties right now have very very deep divisions that are an enormous vulnerability if any other consistant group of challengers gets their act together and can reach a broad mainstream audience.','2003-06-29 07:42:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4030,1,3688,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Jay -\r\n\r\nIf I\'m making a tens of million dollars a day, every day I can hold back the tide is a good day.\r\n\r\nI can hire lawyers to file litigation that more-skilled lawyers have crafted for $75K/year, including benefits. They can probably each file and manage 300 - 400 suits at a time...so for $750K/year, I can create 3,000 - 4,000 lawsuits across most of the bigger jurisdictions in the US. Discovery, expert witnesses, etc. are cookie-cutter.\r\n\r\nI don\'t think that they\'re bluffing; I think they have a real weapon, and that they\'re hoping to use it to buy time.\r\n\r\nIn a year, as the prisoner said, the king could be dead, I could be dead, or the horse could learn to sing.\r\n\r\nOr, friendly legislators could be persuaded to pass laws tilting the field even more firmly, and large software and hardware companies could be persuaded that there\'s a business in it, as long as we can keep the keys in the locks.\r\n\r\nIt\'s a good rule to be careful when you assume your opponent is bluffing...\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-06-29 07:42:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4031,1,3697,'66.170.163.185','Warren Eckels','weckels@jorsm.com','','\r\nSome incidents: \r\n\r\nA few years ago: PBS covered the Mexican-American war, in which we grabbed most of our Southwest. Apparently the US troops who landed in Veracruz faced desperate resistance right up to the gates of Mexico City. Instead of arming the city populace to repel the Yanquis, the rulers of Mexico let them march into town unmolested. Apparently they feared their own people more than the Americans. A wicked land-grab to be sure, but it could not have happened to a more deserving government. \r\n\r\nSeptember 12, 2001: For unadulterated flag-waving, tune to Univisión or Telemundo. The green, white and red go down, the red, white and blue go up.\r\n\r\nNovember, 2002: At the terminal of the Chicago brown line, went to \"Taquería El Pastor\". Asked for \"tacos al pastor\" which were on the menu and was informed on the spot that \"we don\'t e-speak e-Spanish\". Yeah, right. Tasty pork tacos (but not al pastor...)\r\n \r\nMarch, 2003: More flagwaving on Telemundo; evening news invites listeners to send in pictures of their family\'s soldiers for the \"roll of honor\". Interview of the \"rapping Marine\" Alex Rivera\'s parents. \r\n\r\n\"Mi Soldado\" by Los Tigres del Norte on rotation. Father\'s son goes off to war even though father taught him to respect life. THe son responds \"...my country was attacked, and for her I will fight.\" Very deliberate play at the heartstrings. \r\n\r\nApril, 2003: Talking to my students in ESL class, one of my students mentioned how the poor cannot go to school past the sixth grade and that people call them \"burros\" -- donkeys. Fumed for several hours since you don\'t call my students rude names. Had stupid idea about grabbing another row of Mexican states and turning their government over to Mexican immigrants. \r\n\r\nApril 9, 2003: \"Mi Soldado\" every hour with another US-patriotic song on the half hour. Same for the next three days. \r\n\r\nEarly June 2003: Compared Mexican \"basket of basic foodstuffs\" with American and Mexican poverty guidelines. At three times food expenses, the Mexican poverty line would be about $32/day for a family of five. The highest poverty line given by Mexican sources is $28/day. In America, it\'s about $70/day. Perhaps we should let Mexicans know that living expenses here tend to be over twice as high as they are in Mexico. Chasing $2.80/hour is a lot less attractive than chasing $6.00/hour.\r\n\r\nNineteen migrants found dead in Victoria, Texas, left in a trailer to stew in the 100 F sun for several days. Mexican government goes into conniptions, Texas and US begin inquiries. One of them a father who can\'t afford uniforms for his five daughters; survivors tell Chicago Spanish-language paper that they knew the US gave them good things...\r\n\r\nBishop of San Luis Potosí writes \"A Catholic Votes This Way\" -- forget about birth control. Government debates pressing charges against him.\r\n \r\nMid-June 2003: Found \"7 Dias de Los Altos\", a newspaper serving the arm of Jalisco that stretches northeast from Guadalajara. Apparently remittances play a major role in the economy...and the people who run the place seem rather proud of that. Ms. Tepatitlán looks distressingly like Miss Spain. \r\n\r\nLate June 2003: Passed translation class with flying colors. Went to Supermercado \"El Rancho\" to celebrate with a little shopping spree. A truly nasty place offering expired merchandise for the undiscriminating shopper. American flags still all over the cars, sometimes sharing place of honor with the Mexican flag. \r\n\r\nFound it hard to believe that Mexicans prefer their pastries very stale and dry and a smelly meat counter, but the store will cash checks as long as your purchase comes to 10% of the check. \r\n\r\nOn web development site based in Spain, a Mexican web designer says he wants to set up a site for Latino immigrants. Another Mexican replies that the majority of migrating Mexicans are campesinos and would not know how to get on...can La Migra work in cyberspace? \"HAHAHA LA MIGRA GOT \'EM! I\'m not a racist, just a realist...hehehe\" Reminded the first that there are lots of sites geared to Latinos but that there\'s always room for the best. Reserved a boot to the head for the second. \r\n\r\n','2003-06-29 08:36:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4032,1,3697,'80.13.121.151','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','\"I\'m not a racist, just a realist\"\r\n\r\nOn realism: The Web came to much of Latin America before it even arrived in Europe. In 1996, while the French and German authorities, who had no idea what the Internet was, were throwing managers of ISPs in the burgeoning European Internet in jail for allowing access to pornography, many Latin Americans were already connected to the web. Until recently, Mexico was miles ahead of France or Spain in internet access and Mexico had a fixed fee per call telephone tariff for local calls, allowing internet access at low cost. This has changed as the internet has spread and European capacity to provide infrastructure for broadband has allowed it to take a lead.\r\n\r\nStill, the amount of web communication, websites, etc. in the Latin American world is quite amazing.\r\n\r\nIf you go into an internet café in Paris, Madrid or London, often half or more of the customers are Latin American, most often students, but immigrants as well, in particular in Spain where there are a great number of educated Latin American immigrants. I don\'t have statistics, but I do know that on my MSN messenger I have a dozen or so contacts from the U.S. and Canada, a dozen or so from Latin America, and none from France. And I live in Paris.','2003-06-29 10:00:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4033,1,3698,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Chrystal ball gazing is always precarious. (I thought for a long time that the Republicans were doomed in 2000 because of their hysterical extremism leading up to the impeachment proceedings.) That being said, I don\'t see a scenario where the Dems win in 2004. Their best chance is a candidate with strong national security positions and credentials, but the voters will still mistrust the party as a whole. As for a third-party pro-security, pro-social welfare movement, that would just do more damage to the Dems. The fractures in the Republican party are not fatal. The same cannot be said of the Democrats.','2003-06-29 11:31:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4034,1,3699,'67.75.31.50','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','Ditto Opera 7.10...open and close perfectly. \r\n','2003-06-29 13:43:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4035,1,3698,'216.190.71.219','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','The best one-line I have seen on the Democrats Dilemma was someone over on Andrew Sullivan\'s letter page calling Howard Dean \"Barry Dean-Water.\" Too many Democrats want to use the 2004 election as a means of emotionally expressing themselves rather than something to win.\r\n\r\nEven leaving that aside, there are structural reasons the Democrats are behind the eight-ball for 2004.\r\n\r\nThe primary source of winning presidential candidates are the state governors. The bigger the state the better. The Republican\'s virtual wipe out of all the major governorships in 1994, and retention of them since then, has left the Democrats without the best source of chief executives for the 2004 election cycle.\r\n\r\nThe exceptions, California and New Jersey are not in play. Davis of California is a disaster and the Democrats took back new Jersey too late for the governor there to be a factor for 2004.\r\n\r\nI think Dean\'s relatively good performance is as much due to the fact he is a governor with executive experiance as to the lack of new faces in the Democratic Party.\r\n\r\nFor the Democrats to win nationally they need \r\na) Peace and \r\nb) a populist Democratic governor of a large southern state.\r\n\r\nThey lack both for 2004 and I think Hillary Clinton will be their pick for 2008, assuming she wins Senate reelection in 2006.\r\n','2003-06-29 13:54:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4036,1,3697,'209.63.54.76','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','M. Simon,\r\n\r\nPeople are not drugs. They cannot be put into little baggies and be stuffed between the inner and outer walls of a tractor truck trailer. People have a certain irreducable size, they need to breath, drink, eat, excrete, sweat and radiate body heat. \r\n\r\n>You got any idea how many people will be \r\n>required for 24/7 coverage of a 4,000 mile fence?\r\n\r\nThere you go again with that \"Wall of Buchannon,\" it\'s impossible, and if not impossible it is too expensive strawman riff.\r\n\r\nControlling, monitoring and intercepting all vehicle traffic between the USA and Mexico and directing it through controlled ports of entry is doable. \r\n\r\nIt will take time, it will cost money and it will start with high speed transit areas and spread out to more remote areas over time. From there, technology will help with the rest. Americans love technological solutions and a sensor net built up over a period of years will reduce the need for bodies.\r\n\r\nIncrease the costs of people smuggling and reform the legal immigration system to lower the cost and wait and you squeeze out the coyotes.\r\n\r\nHanson\'s arguements for what ammounts to an immigration pause while we culturally digest the latest wave of immigrants are sound, as is his point that the problems of Mexico that drive immigrants north begin in Mexico City and require a regime change to correct. \r\n\r\nsome guy,\r\n\r\nIt has only been the power of the Plutocrats in both parties that has prevented action on immigration to date. \r\n\r\nThey also prevented our rearranging our global military committments to Europe and South Korea after the Cold War ended. \r\n\r\nJust as 9/11/2001 changed that for the military, and focused the politicians on the changed politics of the post-Cold War world. So to will it be with immigration.\r\n\r\nControlling our borders is a national security imparitive that is recognized dimly, but with growing focus by the American public. \r\n\r\nThat focus will be shaped by Hanson\'s Mexifornia.\r\n','2003-06-29 15:14:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4037,1,3697,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','\"People are not drugs. They cannot be put into little baggies and be stuffed between the inner and outer walls of a tractor truck trailer.\"\r\n\r\nI think I need to introduce you to some paisans in New Jersey, who have a very different opinion on this issue. :-)','2003-06-29 18:56:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4038,1,3697,'208.180.173.58','Phil Fraering','pgf@globalreach.net','http://thenostromo.com/pgf/weblog/','\r\nMost are suffering from severe political, economic, social, cultural, educational and media problems as a result of the absence of democracy, the sidelining of people with real skills and the spread of negative values like individualism, cronyism and sycophancy.\r\n
\r\n
A.L.','2003-07-02 02:03:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4092,1,3710,'68.166.80.225','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://www.overpressure.com','Optimism in the face of adversity is qunitessentially American. Think of the 1939 World\'s Fair - ten years of crushing depression, the world literally going up in flames, and those silly people go to New York to take a look at Futurama.\r\n\r\nI am optimistic in the face of this adversity because the United States, the vast majority of people here, have chosen to defend our country and our culture from those who would destroy it. \r\n\r\nWe chose to defend it, so we must think it worth defending.\r\n\r\nWho couldn\'t take heart in that?\r\n\r\nAnother good question for klaatu is that he says that post-war Iraq is not as sold to the American public. How exactly was post-war Iraq sold to the American public? Was someone saying it would turn into Switzerland or something?\r\n\r\nAs I recall, the President said we would stay as long as it takes - no longer than that, but not less than that either. ','2003-07-02 03:13:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4093,1,3710,'68.166.80.225','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://www.overpressure.com','Oh, and what is with the canard that we have abandoned Afghanistan?\r\n\r\nIs that really so? Don\'t we still have troops there? Aren\'t we building schools and hospitals and roads there? Aren\'t we putting hundreds of millions of dollars in aid in there?\r\n','2003-07-02 03:17:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4094,1,3705,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','<June Cleaver voice>\r\n\r\nI speak jive!!\r\n\r\n</Cleaver>\r\n\r\n...actually he gets double points because he both mocks the rhetoric and makes some valid points.\r\n\r\nThe policies of the looney left, if implemented would go a long way toward simultaneously immiserating the population of the Third World and making the population of the First World feel good about itself.\r\n\r\nBut here in California, we\'ve seen what self-esteem based curricula can do.\r\n\r\nWelcome!!\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-02 04:37:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4095,1,3705,'67.225.186.129','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Some valid points, yah.\r\nBut a few things that are, IMO, common errors in appraising/critiquing this phenomenon and thus, IMO, unhelpful.\r\n\r\nLets just go at \"Pacifism\" - The pacifist veneer is very superficial. Scratch it even lightly and we find a reveling in the romanticism of Revolution, a much greater willingness to understand and find explicable violent acts (including deliberately against civilians) when engaged in by (to use Thomas Sowell\'s term) \"Mascots\" (thus the internal contradiction in the critique between the \"Pacifism\" and the \"Pro-Palestinianism\" elements; it isn\'t the non-violent, moderate elements in Palestinian society that the Left that Gonzalez is analyzing identify with. It is precisely the more extreme elements.\r\n\r\nThe long love affair with Che, with the Panthers, with Franz Fanon\'s vision, and all. What we see are expressions of admiration for Ghandi but a identification with the methods of revolutionary violence.\r\n\r\nThis is often confused with pacifism because they consistently believe that we should not resort to violence. All this amounts to, though, is that they do not believe Western Civilization is fighting for - but they are often willing to entertain the idea it is worth fighting against. (I do not think this is an unfair characterization and I think that the \"rebuttal\" to this would in large part consist of rationalizations for why this is appropriate given a belief that Western Civilization is uniquely the font of racism, slavery, classism, sexism, exploitation, &tc &tc ad nausium - prooving rather than refuting the point).\r\n\r\nBut that means that this isn\'t principled pacifism (violence is never acceptable) - those who are \"opressed and exploited\", the Damned of the Earth, have just cause to rise up if that is the only way to overthrow their imperialistic, colonialist opressors. But of course the opressors do not have just cause to resist such a uprising.\r\n\r\nSo it\'s not pacifism as such though it\'s often confused with that (because these movements have expropriated the nome de guerre of \"Peace Movement\" and the like, but for them, as for many of us, peace is achieved through victory. They just hope to see the other side triumph over \"opressive\" Western \"domination\", especially AmerikkkanHaliburtunBushCheneyNAZIFascism).','2003-07-02 05:01:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4096,1,3712,'165.121.146.122','Jay Solo','jaysolo@mindspring.com','http://elhide.com/solo','Winds of Change.NET will be hosting the Carnival next week, on June 9th. Submissions should be sent by June 8 to Joe, right here @windsofchange.net.\r\n\r\nI trust you mean July 8 & 9, not June... ;>','2003-07-02 06:09:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4097,1,3709,'66.74.67.107','Stephen','stephen@shadowshow.net','http://slapthemonkey.blogspot.com','I think before going into whether things in Iraq are going or not going according to plan, I would have to question exactly what the plan was.\r\n\r\nI think it\'s naive to believe that the Pentagon and State Department went into the situation honestly believing that we would go in, clean up and walk away a few days later with Iraq deep in the throes of democracy.\r\n\r\nThe military was fully expecting Saddam to blow up his oil wells and were planning on how to prevent that as much as possible. Repairing the kind of damage they expected from that is not the sort of thing that has a weekend turnaround. It takes time. Details are forced to change according to shifting circumstances. They knew this.\r\n\r\nDid the administration lie to us? Looked at from a particular point of view, certainly. It\'s called spin. It\'s a necessary part of politics, whether on a government level or within one\'s own personal life. We\'re all politicians to some extent and we all spin our stories. That\'s how we convince those around us to our way of thinking.\r\n\r\nFor the most part, the American people didn\'t want to hear that it was going to be a long, torturous road ahead. We\'re talking about a largely sound bite culture here. There are a frightening number of people getting more news from MTV, not NPR.\r\n\r\nSo, I would agree that it\'s not going according to the plan we were sold on, but I would disagree that it\'s not going according to the plan as it was laid out. ','2003-07-02 06:10:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4098,1,3711,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Yeah, but this is also France these days. Nothing wrong with French women, it seems... but we already knew that.\r\n\r\nAs for the French ruling class - a corrupt and growing failure that exhibits some of the symptoms you describe. But that is not the same thing as France.','2003-07-02 06:17:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4099,1,3712,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Yes. Thanks for the catch. Bedtime, I think.','2003-07-02 06:25:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4100,1,3712,'216.190.71.172','Laurence Simon','file13@ev1.net','http://amish.blogmosis.com/','Have fun!','2003-07-02 06:37:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4101,1,3711,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Trent, you really need a heavier spring on that trigger. Let\'s go to the source:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.thedissidentfrogman.com/dacha/000185.html\r\n\r\nAnd a quote:\r\n\r\n\"Before you jump to conclusions, before you decide to post about it on your site, blog or forum, it is crucial that you read this article that provides essential information on this issue that may not be as bad as it\'s being reported. Thanks.\"\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n','2003-07-02 07:00:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4102,1,3711,'208.187.40.18','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Joe,\r\n\r\n Much the same was said of Pym Fortune and the Netherlands.\r\n\r\n If you see the hate speech directed at her that you saw for Fortune, it will be all over save for her murder.\r\n\r\n And we will see that hate speech from the French elites.','2003-07-02 07:03:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4103,1,3711,'208.187.40.18','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','A.L.\r\n\r\nThis is what D-F says:\r\n\r\n\"Get back to the source, read my article again and extract its basic meaning:\r\n- I went to Bayeux and visited the Memorial Museum of the Battle of Normandy.\r\n- I noticed three - and only three - troubling omissions.\r\n- I have no information on the reasons why their was obviously something missing.\r\n\r\nThis is what this article means; this is its basic meaning, its \"substantifique moelle\". And it should be pretty obvious for anybody wishing to keep his/her self-control and try to find out.\r\n\r\nBefore you start making assumptions, jumping to conclusions - which I didn\'t even do myself - and, in some regrettable cases, distort the original message and concoct stories that will spread possibly even better than the bare truth, or, on the other hand deny the facts and pretend I doctored the photos, I really think it would be better to take the time to think, understand what you read and ask yourself if there could be a rational explanation for these undeniably bizarre coincidences.\r\n\r\nI witnessed them and shot the pictures. I presented them on my weblog, with the usual sarcastic tone that - I guess - keeps my regular readers remaining so (\"regular\" and \"readers\" of course). I was indeed, troubled by these three - and only three - omissions (and so were the people accompanying me), particularly taking in consideration the current state of the US-French relationship and that\'s the reason why I decided to post about it.\"\r\n\r\nThere is an old saying:\r\n\r\n\"Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.\"\r\n\r\nGiven the state of French-American affairs, how would you slice with Occums Razor?','2003-07-02 07:11:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4104,1,3705,'4.60.26.69','Samuel Tai','taiss@gte.net','','God Damn! All this Marxist twaddle makes my head hurt, and it\'s all 3-day old BS that ain\'t worth the ground underneath the crapping bull.','2003-07-02 07:44:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4105,1,3705,'24.80.138.38','jcthomas','jcthomas@hotmail.com','','Great parody (or is it !?) - especially liked the part about the left\'s \"self-contradictory dynamic in which inconsistency is meaningful\". it would be even funnier if I didn\'t have so many graduate students, and colleagues, who actually express themselves like that!','2003-07-02 08:20:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4106,1,3710,'12.236.106.110','roublen vesseau','roublen@yahoo.com','http://hardheads.blogspot.com/','I think one of the key things here is \"television\". I don\'t find the world depressing, but watching and listening to today\'s broadcast/cable political media is on the whole a depressing, infuriating, soul-deadening experience. The more of it you watch or listen to, the worse you will feel about the state of your country and your fellow citizens.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-07-02 08:40:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4107,1,3710,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Just a couple of centuries ago, which is the recent past for humankind, childhood mortality rates in the West were above 75%, 1 in 5 women died during childbirth, and life expectancy was around 25 years of age. My cynical optimism keeps me from romanticizing the past, demonizing the present or expecting too little (or too much) from the future. I\'ll stick with the comic books and popular culture.','2003-07-02 09:54:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4108,1,3711,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Am I confused? I think D-F\'s original post was clear in its implications (in French and English language versions). The subsequent clarification looks more like a retreat. I wonder if he shouldn\'t be issuing a retraction or apology, rather than a warning, if he no longer wishes to stand by the original post. Am I missing something?','2003-07-02 10:20:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4109,1,3705,'24.28.2.101','Matthew','portablematthew@yahoo.com','http://fearfulsymmetry.blogspot.com/','Shades of Alan Sokal\'s prank on the journal Social Text. Brilliant -- if intentional.','2003-07-02 10:44:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4110,1,3705,'203.151.8.41','Eye Opener','okay@knu2.com','http://www.tw3.wethai.com','I\'ll hold on the \'parody/sarcasm\' pronouncement, as it MAY have been unintentional self-parody.\r\n\r\nMy clues? The assumptions that capitalism IS (unfairly) exploitative *[and that distinction, fair and unfair exploitation, is another clue]* and as such falls loosely into 4 areas which we, the Left, can articulate...\r\n\r\nAnother clue is the \'inherent activation of rhetorical obfuscation by reification of poly-syllabic formulatives not specifically dis-allowed by ideative-examinative processes\' which is NOT something he said, but is definitely a fair example of his way of speaking, a way which increases the difficulty of understanding WHAT he\'s saying, all the while using big words in a proclaimed desire to clarify the questions being examined. \r\n\r\n\"It was clear as mud, but it covered the ground...\r\n the con-fu-sion made me head go round...\r\n If the woman peeyabah, and the man, peeyabah\r\n And the tonton, collbacka lemon-grass\r\n The lily root, gully root, belly-root UNH!\r\nAnd the Famous Granny scratch scratch!\" \r\nH. Belafonte, noted Leftist Apologist and Theorist','2003-07-02 11:21:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4111,1,3711,'208.187.72.63','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','A.L.,\r\n\r\nThe reason D-F is surprised at the size and feeling of the blogburst he set off is because very few want to admit how *pissed off* the American people are with the French. This is Dick Morris\' latest column and it is on the French:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/2226.htm\r\n\r\n\"The American people are not nearly as eager as their ambassador to make peace after the French seemed to value Saddam Hussein over their traditional ally (us). We are voting with our mouths and our feet against reconciliation with France. \r\n\r\nAccording to Wine Spectator Magazine, sales of French wine in the United States fell by 26.2 percent between April 21 and May 18 of this year. The French global share of wine exports has fallen almost in half since Jan. 1. \r\n\r\nAnd Americans are staying home, refusing to travel to France. The very depressed Leon Bertrand, the French tourism secretary, reported that American tourism to his nation has dropped by 20 percent - likely quite an understatement of the looming reality of a massive summer boycott. \r\n\r\nA May Fox News/Opinion Dynamics survey indicates that half of Americans favor a boycott of French products. The ripples will soon be felt by the perfume, fashion, fabric and other industries on which France depends. \r\n\r\nWhy did France betray us? \r\n\r\nLook at last year\'s presidential elections: 18 percent backed either the Communist Party, the Trotskyite Socialist Workers Party, or the Communist-allied French Green Party; another 19 percent voted for Jean Marie LePen, the anti-Semite who said that the Holocaust was a \"detail of history.\" So, between the anti-Americanism of the left and the racism of the right, 40 percent of French voters are nuts. \r\n\r\nIt doesn\'t take much to create a majority for total insanity.\"\r\n','2003-07-02 12:16:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4112,1,3711,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','1. Trent\r\n\r\nRe: \"anti-Americanism of the left and the racism of the right\", it actually runs much deeper and wider than that. Some of the most virulent anti-Americanism comes from Jean-Marie Le Pen\'s National Front as well as the Gaullist Party. I would double the 40% to at least 80%. It\'s worse than you think.\r\n\r\n2. D-F\'s correction/retraction\r\n\r\nIt occurs to me that D-F may actually fear political reprisals against his site and himself personally. Given greater French regulation of web-speech, recent closure of websites, recent proposals requiring sites to publish rebuttals, and the (somewhat anti-democratic) tradition of libel suits by the government (through government ministers and other officials claiming personal defamation), he may actually be concerned.','2003-07-02 12:46:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4113,1,3712,'137.237.13.204','Pietro','pietro4bush@go.com','http://smarterthanbart.blogspot.com','Joe -\r\n\r\nAre you specifying email to send you the COV post? Is it as simple as joe is your identity, at the domain of @windsofchange.net..?\r\n\r\n','2003-07-02 13:56:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4114,1,3712,'204.65.17.24','Norbizness','Norbizness@yahoo.com','http://norbizness.blogspot.com','Better start brewing some Folgers (NOW with crystal meth) for next Tuesday night! Good luck, Joe','2003-07-02 13:57:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4115,1,3702,'216.68.253.1','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com/','\"The only good thing is that the passions of youth won\'t be driving this.\"\r\n\r\nExcepting the \"guest workers\" they bring in to do the scutwork they\'re too old/snooty for.','2003-07-02 14:26:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4116,1,3705,'63.189.0.174','Bart Hall (Kansas, USA)','bart.hall@prairiestarfarm.com','','The Gonzalez piece is either not particularly serious, or (if serious) not particularly competent. Any more-than-cursory examination of the Left, worldwide, reveals three prevailing themes -- a) nature worship expressed as radical environmentalism b) a generalised rejection of technology, and c) virulent hatred for Western Civilisation.\r\n\r\nThe GMO food issue, for example, has such vehemence because it is at the intersection of all three themes.\r\n\r\nThe intellectual ancestry of current Left-think is clearly (and predeominantly) in the line of Martin Heidegger (1889-1976). That Heidegger was a leading philosophe of the Nazi movement has either been forgotten, or conveniently ignored.\r\n\r\nOn the whole, however, the Gonzalez piece reminds me of a joke commonly played on new farm hands. When a machine breaks down they are sent to town with the broken part, but have been informed (and told to explain at the service counter) that \"the disgronificator is completely deflammulated.\"\r\n\r\nAmongst the world\'s [m]academia nuts the disgronificator is indeed completely deflammulated.\r\n\r\nWhat makes the Left far more dangerous than a batty uncle in the upstairs room is the fact that for nearly fifteen years they have been the nexus not only of Heideggerian neo-Nazis, but also of neo-Communists in the tradition of Gramsci.\r\n\r\nThese are people who will confiscate your wealth and attempt to control your lives if given half a chance. That is no laughing matter.','2003-07-02 14:32:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4117,1,3710,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','roublen -\r\n\r\nCould the fact that we have no T.V in our house be the difference??\r\n\r\nIt\'s something that I suggest pretty strongly, particularly for families with kids...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-02 14:56:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4118,1,3711,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Trent -\r\n\r\nI\'ve eaten my words once or twice as well. They don\'t taste very good, but somehow the willingness to eat them when called for makes a pretty good diet.\r\n\r\nYou demonstrate your honor when you do.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-02 15:08:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4119,1,3710,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','A.L. - Not the TV thing again! Cable TV, that great (post)modern opium of the masses. Actually, I think there is such a thing as intelligent viewing. (http://www.plasmavision.com/)','2003-07-02 15:46:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4120,1,3705,'12.159.90.101','HA','ha@bogusaddress.com','','\"...structuration...\"?\r\n\"...conflictualities...\"?\r\n\"...phenomenological...\"?\r\n\r\nUgggh! I vote for unintentional self-parody. This guy sounds like the jail-house philosopher from In Living Color.','2003-07-02 17:46:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4121,1,3710,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','\"The Story of the Two Frogs\"\r\n\r\nTwo frogs are hopping along, and happen to both jump into a large vat of milk. One frog, seeing the futility of ever getting out, gives up and drowns. The other frog continues splashing around until he has churned up an island of butter. He climbs onto the island, until the milkmaid comes along and chucks him out.\r\n\r\n-Unknown, but adapted from the writings of Robert A. Heinlein\r\n\r\nIf you want to give up, go ahead, but get the f**k out of the canoe so your dead weight doesn\'t drag the rest of us down.\r\n\r\nklaatu:\r\nPlease excuse me for disagreeing with you, but tax cuts do not cause deficits. Tax collections doubled during Reagan\'s time in office, due to his tax cuts. Unfortunately, spending increased 3X, which is the true cause of the so-called Reagan Deficit\"\r\n\r\nThe tax cuts you mention have just barely started to have an impact on government revenues. They are, for the most part, scheduled to go into effect in later years. Probably the main cause of our currect deficits are the bursting of the dot.com bubble, two wars and the effects of the September 11 attacks.\r\n\r\nMy guess is that we won;t have to attack Syria, Iran or North Korea- they will collapse on their own, worrying about when the US will attack.','2003-07-02 18:25:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4122,1,3702,'66.32.120.129','Whaq','twnicholson@mindspring.com','','If it keeps up, Europe is definately screwed, but this kind of thing could reverse quickly and dramatically.\r\n\r\nFor instance, seems like I read recently that France is undergoing something of a baby-boomlet, and among indigenous french people at that -- not among immigrants or their progeny (though their birthrates are already high). I don\'t know how reliable the news was or how significant the boom.\r\n\r\nIt does appear as though Europe has a deathwish, even though it supposedly \"understands the art of living\", ','2003-07-02 18:53:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4123,1,3705,'206.190.18.53','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The reason Marx is not a Marxist is that he believed that capitalism with all it\'s painful aspects had to triumph before communism could triumph. He believed that without the advance of capitalism to it\'s end stage that communism wouldn\'t have the necessary resources.\r\n\r\nWhat is interesting about Marx is that he institutionalized Jewish 19th Century ghetto culture. Communists are people who want to live in a Jewish economic culture developed to deal with extreme external political and social stress.\r\n\r\nIt is one of the reasons the kibutzim in Israel are dying out as communal institutions. Insufficient economic and political stress.','2003-07-02 19:01:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4124,1,3705,'206.190.18.53','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The conclusion paragraph is a classic.\r\n\r\nTranslation of the conclusion: the left is clueless.\r\n\r\nLOL','2003-07-02 19:05:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4125,1,3710,'66.32.120.129','Whaq','twnicholson@mindspring.com','','Heck, I can\'t even take Klaatu\'s lament seriously.\r\n\r\nQuote:\r\n\r\n\"Knowing that every day, in every way, the administration is trying to screw over the working man in favor of the corporation.\"\r\n\r\nSheesh. That\'s right. People your thoughts with cant. Say it over and over until you BELIEVE.\r\n\r\nBarata Nictu >this<, K.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n ','2003-07-02 19:15:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4126,1,3711,'66.32.182.239','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Trent,\r\n\r\nYour obsession with all things French is bordering on pathetic. To accuse the French of being petty and mean-spirited does an absolute injustice to the preposterous, childish, petty and ignorant acts taken by our own elected Representatives to rename \"French Fries\" to \"Freedom Fries\" and \"French Toast\" to \"Freedom Toast\"--especially since niether originated in France, and French Toast was actually named after an American.\r\n\r\nTo accuse the French as a whole of forgetting the history of Normandy is arrogant hypocracy, given the stunning ignorance among Americans of the beneficial role France has played many times in our own history. It also implies, quite incorrectly, that we entered the European war for the benefit of France. We all know that isn\'t true, and that we (along with the rest of the world) were happy to let France whither under a murderous dictatorship until our own interests were attacked.\r\n\r\nTo accuse (again) France of being the Friend of Tyranny is the height of hypocracy, unless you believe America\'s responsibility for the consequences of its own foreign policy vis a vis support for tyrannical regimes has a half-life of, say, 4 to 8 years.\r\n\r\nTo note that \"the government of France uses our dead as a political weapon against us, and spits on their graves when our back is turned\" ignores the strong (but thankfully brief-lived) movement within this country to remove some of our war dead from France, not because we always wanted them here in the first place, but merely as a way to manipulate our fallen heroes to score petty political points.\r\n\r\nFrance is no paradise and America no demon. But your continued small-minded, petty harping on that country at the expense of paying attention to the majority of nations and groups that pose a greater threat to us does you and Winds of Change a great disservice.','2003-07-02 19:16:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4127,1,3713,'68.106.126.5','robi','robi@robisen.com','http://robisen.com','Here is a article that really did not fit into my briefing but I wonder what other people think of it\r\n\r\nhttp://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jun/20rajeev.htm','2003-07-02 19:18:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4128,1,3710,'206.190.18.53','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Gabriel Gonzalez,\r\n\r\nOpium decreases pain. TV increases it. TV is bad. Opium is good.\r\n\r\nWe would be better off with opium over the counter than TVs at appliance stores.\r\n\r\nOpium addicts are wise: too much pain in their lives and they try to relieve it.\r\n\r\nTV addicts are unwise: too little pain in their lives and they try to increase it.\r\n\r\nFear will keep the masses in line. That is why we have TV. In addition it is not imposed but desired.\r\n\r\nGo figure. This guy has:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/nikolas.lloyd/evolve/evolmenu.html\r\n\r\nSimon\r\n','2003-07-02 19:29:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4129,1,3713,'199.18.97.220','-= ds =-','dswitzer@pengoworks.com','http://blog.pengoworks.com','Good info there. The past couple of weeks have been very active over in Asia and in the Middle East. I hope it continues on the positive tracks that it\'s on. I\'m sure there\'s more rough sailing ahead--it\'s the nature of us as humans. I\'m thinking we might all benefit from a little dose of \"Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation.\" :)','2003-07-02 19:53:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4130,1,3711,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Trent,\r\n\r\nI might disagree with your representation of France in the details, but agree entirely on the big picture. Your obsession is only excessive in that we are approaching a point where we will stop trying to demonstrate that the French - the government and the people as a whole supporting its policies - are a special case of a morally challenged, selfish, hypocritical and treacherous nation that we should be wary of. We will then move on to the only serious remaining issue of \"why?\" and \"to what extent?\", if that\'s worth pursuing. (I think Ralph Peters has correctly reached that point.)\r\n\r\nClue, like other apologists for French behaviour, make the \"U.S. is just as bad argument\", which in my opinion does not come close to withstanding any serious analysis of the evidence.\r\n\r\nI rack my brains to find something redeeming to say about French policy. I live in the godforsaken country, my wife is French, my kids are French. But I can find very little positive to say, and have come to the conclusion that I am in a futile self-delusional struggle to avoid the inescapable conclusion that the policies and attitudes of the French government, with broad popular support, are condemnable and beyond the pale, and should be unambigously recognized as such. If anything, Trent\'s condemnation here (and in other pieces) is an understatement that gives the French more credit than they deserve.\r\n\r\nThere may be positive things to say about French culture, society, history, people, etc. They are not in the realm of a cynical foreign policy that has little regard for collective interests, decency or human rights.','2003-07-02 20:07:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4131,1,3711,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','clue;\r\n\r\nI will let Trent speak for himself, but I totally disagree with your opinion of him.\r\n\r\nTrent:\r\n\r\nKeep on hammering away.','2003-07-02 20:10:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4132,1,3712,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Pietro... yes, but I won\'t put it in a fashion that makes it easy for spambots to harvest. Which is why I\'ve radacted your post.','2003-07-02 20:17:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4133,1,3705,'68.161.133.39','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','I have seen posts by GGonzales before, and he can be very lucid, so I think this is intentional parody.\r\n\r\nThe pacifist veneer is very superficial. Scratch it even lightly and we find a reveling in the romanticism of Revolution . . . it isn\'t the non-violent, moderate elements in Palestinian society that the Left that Gonzalez is analyzing identify with. It is precisely the more extreme elements.\r\n\r\nThe long love affair with Che, with the Panthers, with Franz Fanon\'s vision, and all. What we see are expressions of admiration for Ghandi but a identification with the methods of revolutionary violence.
\r\n\r\nAbsolutely. Great article on this syndrome in particular.','2003-07-02 20:23:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4134,1,3705,'68.161.133.39','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Garbriel Gozalez\r\n\r\n??? typo?\r\n\r\nI think it\'s\r\n\r\nGabriel Gonzales','2003-07-02 20:26:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4135,1,3711,'66.32.182.239','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Clue, like other apologists for French behaviour, make the \"U.S. is just as bad argument\", which in my opinion does not come close to withstanding any serious analysis of the evidence.\r\n\r\nNo I didn\'t, and I certainly don\'t believe so, and I\'m damn glad to be living in the U.S., and my condolences to your unfortunate intersection with geography. I don\'t think French policy is great, or even as good as American.\r\n\r\nMy problem is with Trent\'s obsession with France--the criticisms he makes that could equally be applied to the U.S., but more broadly with his laser-like focus on France that makes it seem like a much more significant influencer of events (and threat to the U.S.) than it is. Trent is obviously experienced and intelligent, and I\'d love to see him focus that experience and intelligence on a nation or group that actually poses an immediate problem for me and my country--and there are plenty of candidates closer to the front of the line than good ol\' France.','2003-07-02 20:38:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4136,1,3711,'145.254.135.229','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\n\r\nwhat happend here is just the sort of thing i was adressing in former posts about France - some here at winds of change work biased against them and with childish accusations and wrong assumtions - which results in wrong andbiased articles about franch reality.\r\nif you accuse other for not recognising the truth or not beeing honest - you at least should try to be this yourself.\r\n\r\ni give my FULL ACK to clue, even if his comment shouldn\'t be addressed to trent but to others writing and commenting here at winds of change.\r\n\r\n\"But your continued small-minded, petty harping on that country at the expense of paying attention to the majority of nations and groups that pose a greater threat to us does you and Winds of Change a great disservice.\"\r\n\r\nthere\'s just not more to say.\r\ngo on writing about the french, and go on criticising them where they need to be. but stop the childisch accusations and allegations. stop drawing an absolutely distorting picture about french (and european) reality. your goal should be getting deeper knowlege about the true reality and finding the undistortet true - this can\'t become reality with more of these wrong, ashaming, biased and anti-french articles.\r\n','2003-07-02 20:50:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4137,1,3711,'145.254.135.229','Maxim','santos.helper@gmx.de','','\r\nanother interesting picture:\r\n\r\nthe inner city of beyeux:\r\n\r\nhere\r\n\r\nwhich flag is flying for all to see?','2003-07-02 20:54:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4138,1,3710,'151.203.231.164','klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','Here\'s a reason to be gloomy: \"Bring them on,\" Bush says to Iraqi attacks.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63296-2003Jul2.html\r\n\r\nExcuse me, what good is that kind of talk going to do??? \r\n\r\nI doubt the Fallujah diehards firing RPGs will be intimidated by macho posturing.\r\n\r\nI can only imagine the sardonic and obscene responses this will bring from the members of the 3rd and 4th ID, 1st AD, 1st Marine Div, 101 Abn and miscellaneous National Guard and Reserve units.\r\n\r\nSpeak for yourself, CINC, being the mildest of them. \r\n\r\nIt\'s either he really is a shithead, or Rove thinks that this kind of talk will play well to some shithead part of the electorate.\r\n\r\nEither way, cause for gloom.\r\n\r\nWould FDR have said the same thing during Guadalcanal? Truman when the Chinese crossed the Yalu? Johnson during Tet?\r\n\r\nAs for TV, I don\'t really spend much time watching it, although with a kid in Baghdad I flip through the cable news channels frequently, usually finding nothing of value (my son called two weeks ago and said he and some others in his unit were interviewed on Fox (!!), we missed it or it wasn\'t shown). I spend more time reading the NYT, the NYRB and other lily-livered pubs. I watch the talk shows on Sunday morning. Other than that it\'s movies on TCM, IFC, the subtitled ones on French TV5, and \"King of the Hill\" after Nightline.\r\n\r\nBlaster, as to Afghanistan, see:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.iht.com/articles/101369.html ','2003-07-02 21:17:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4139,1,3702,'172.203.57.131','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','what i would love to see is a groupblog based website dedicated to freedom and democracy in europe. something along the lines of a hybrid between command post and tech central station. it could be manned by bloggers like merde and dissident and so many others who have a passion for europe coupled with disgust towards european stagnation, delusion, and anti-americanism. \r\n\r\nwonder if we can find a few people to make it happen...','2003-07-02 21:28:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4140,1,3711,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Clue, \r\n\r\nSorry to have misrepresented your views. \r\n\r\nI do not think that Trent\'s obsession is misplaced. While France is not the greatest threat to American interests - we have other fish to fry - France is bent by its nature on actively undermining U.S. interests (and I believe global security interests generally) for the purpose of advancing its own narrow self-interested agenda. It is more than a nuisance. Its current organization of global opposition to U.S. policies and alignment with hostile Middle East regimes AGAINST the U.S. results in real harm, causes the U.S. to expend political and financial resources, and ultimately costs U.S. lives as well. \r\n\r\nEven China and Russia have acted with more responsibility and sanity, and at least do not pretend to be on our side. And the German position, in contrast to the French, is more a function of the current political leadership (in the same way the Spanish and Italian support for U.S. policy is more an accident of the current political leadership than any abiding alignment with U.S. concerns).\r\n\r\nThe case of France however is special. It is not simply a matter of expressing paranoid and irrational anti-Americanism for a domestic audience, which is bad enough. France has an active and hostile policy to work against U.S. interests and exploit anti-Americanism, in particular in the Third World, to promote its own strategic and commercial agenda. That cannot and should not be ignored.\r\n\r\nTrent may at times be wrong on the details, but the thrust is on point.','2003-07-02 21:30:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4141,1,3711,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','In a recent poll in Arab countries, Jacques Chirac was voted the most popular Western politician and third most popular political figure worldwide. (Bin Laden took first place.) The oil and infrastructure contracts are close behind. It\'s the French way...','2003-07-02 21:37:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4142,1,3711,'138.133.17.10','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Gabriel, I\'ll beg to differ in one small area: I think that France is one of the leading rivals, in that it intends to catalyze the emergence of a counterforce to U.S. power (I\'ve *already noted* that most of French diplomatic history is centered around opposing the center of power). They have their own interests which are sometimes parallel and sometimes in opposition to ours, and because of France\'s diplomatic history, they bring a swarm of smaller states with them.\r\n\r\nTrent would have us denounce and crush them - diplomaticaly, I assume. I think that\'s a waste of effort, and that we need to firmly defend our positions when they are in opposition, and exploit our alliances when they are aligned. The axis of opposition - much like the opposition between a teenager and a parent - brings it\'s own dynamic into play, and itself becomes an organizing principle. \r\n\r\nDon\'t allow that opposition to gel, and you deny them an organzing principle, have the potential to move some of the swarm of ancillary states toward our orbit, and do so with less energy and investment that you would spend in open conflict.\r\n\r\nThink aikido, not karate.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-02 21:39:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4143,1,3710,'138.133.17.9','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','klaatu -\r\n\r\nActually, as I recall form some of the Turman biographies I\'ve read, he did say some things like that.\r\n\r\nAnd we\'re certainly better off fighting enemy forces now than waiting for them to organize and fight on their own schedule and terms.\r\n\r\nklaatu, let me raise a challenge to you - and we\'ve cross-commented before over at my old bog.\r\n\r\nWhat would you have done on September 12, 2002?\r\n\r\nWhat is your projected policy for the Middle East, as it exists today?\r\n\r\nMost of what I read from you is critical of Bush\'s policy - which certainly presents legitimate targets for criticism. What\'s your alternative path?\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-02 21:43:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4144,1,3702,'144.183.226.2','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Whaq,\r\n\r\n What I recall of reading that recently was that it was of French born women of Algerian heritage responsible for the boomlet.','2003-07-02 21:51:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4145,1,3711,'66.32.182.239','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Gabriel,\r\n\r\nThanks for your measured response. I don\'t find the argument that France directs its foreign policy towards \"advancing its own narrow self-interested agenda,\" and that it uses exploitve and hostile tactics to \"promote its own strategic and commercial agenda\" incorrect, only hypocritical. I\'m not making a statement of equivalence about French society, polity or policy, or consequences thereof, but I do see a fair amount of equivalence in motivation. \r\n\r\nI can certainly concur with a denouncement of French policies that foster anti-Americanism that might indeed eventually cost American lives, and there are clearly writers here at WoC who have a profoundly greater grasp of those issues that I; I don\'t seriously doubt those claims.\r\n\r\nBut to condemn France for acting out of self-interest at the expense of the welfare of others is to ignore the same motivation that guides some significantly percentage of policy decision made by every nation that has ever existed, including our own. \r\n\r\nYou and Trent (and many more) are clearly in much greater posession of the facts of French policy than I am. I would be very interested and open to reading information about how French policy (foreign, military, commercial, etc) negatively affects or actively opposes U.S. interests, global stability, etc. What I\'m objecting to is the one-sided petty sniping about percieved slights, and more importantly the air of moral superiority when in fact France is little more guilty of acting selfishly in the world than any of the rest of us.','2003-07-02 21:57:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4146,1,3711,'198.26.123.36','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','A.L.; G.G.;\r\n\r\n American government will be doing very little overtly to the French. The over all government opinion is that, outside the U.N., the French are toothless and not worth the effort.\r\n\r\n The purchasing power of the American people is a different matter. As are the policies of the Rumsfeld run Defense Department. It will be a very cold day before Airbus or Ariane gets an American defense contract.\r\n\r\n This American government opinion will change radically if French intelligence services are caught aiding anti-American terrorism. Watching French-Iranian relations as the Mullah\'s wobble will be a leading indicator of French intentions.\r\n\r\n French pro-Serb espionage activities in Bosnia in 1995 and Kosovo in 1999 are still the talk of the Defense Department old hands.','2003-07-02 22:03:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4147,1,3714,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','Defense is not offense. The American people correctly feel the Democratic Party is inherently incapable of offense - specifically that the Democrats are opposed to destroying our enemies overseas. Winning is quite different from not losing - consider Israel if you don\'t understand the distinction. Wars can only be won with offense, and we are at war. Internal security efforts alone against terrorism originating overseas just makes us perpetual targets at home.\r\n\r\nIMO the Democrats are dead in 2004 for this reason. If they won\'t confront their own extremists, the 2004 Democratic convention in Boston may have the consequences of the 1814 Federalist convention in Hartford, Connecticut. I.e., the Democratic Party has a limited time window in which to avoid being damned.\r\n\r\nI left the Democratic Party because Senator John Glenn would not fight the nuclear freezers in 1984. \"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing\" - Burke. \"The best lack all conviction; the worst are full of passionate intensity\" - Yeats.\r\n\r\nFocusing on internal security is only a way to dodge a confrontation within the Democratic Party on military policy. If the only Democratic voices the public hears on the latter all denounce use of military force against terrorist threats abroad, the continued survival of the Democratic Party is an issue, because this war will go on for at least a generation.','2003-07-02 22:47:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4148,1,3714,'165.66.72.212','Tim','tj@hotmail.com','','This is nonsense. The war on terrorism will be won overseas or lost at home. No amount of money spent on \"homeland security\" is going to win the war on terrorism. Funding for first responders might protect some of us some of the time - which is undeniably a virtue - but playing defense is not going to defeat terrorism. We can only win by taking the fight to the enemy and defeating him in his home.\r\n\r\nThen we have the not inconsiderable issue of Democrat hypocrisy on homeland security. According to them, the Patriot Act might as well be the revival of the Sedition Act - and they complain incessantly about lack of funds for first responders. The Democrat policy of choice is \"we dare not try to stop them before they act for fear of violating their civil rights, but we damn well better be sure our cops, firefighters, paramedics and trauma centers have the means to deal with them when they do.\" Forgive me for wanting to live my life as a free man rather than a scared bunny - but fully funding every urban public safety and health department for every possible contingency is not an effective or responsible national security policy. It is a political dodge from the bloody and unfortunate work required overseas - while throwing rhetorical bones urban Democrat constituencies hungry for more tax dollars. \r\n\r\nUltimately it is a dead end. We cannot be absolutely secure at home and retain our freedoms. Does anyone really think we can do it better than the Israelis, who face unrelenting security threats? We cannot buy enough homeland security here. But we can win homeland security overseas by killing terrorists before they kill us - but that is not part of the Democrat \"national security\" platform.\r\n','2003-07-02 22:48:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4149,1,3631,'198.26.123.36','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofcahnge.net','','O.G.M.,\r\n\r\n First, we don\'t have several years. We need it quickly because Iran and particularly Syria are going sooner than that. After both we face the prospect of dealing with Pakistan. That means bodies, a lot of them and soon.\r\n\r\n Second, we don\'t need a larger highly trained fighting force. The one we have right now is large enough to defeat *any* conventional armed force we face. What we need is a constabulary, administrators and support force...Peace keepers, not peace makers, for post-war operations. The skills sets are different and the draft will get the necessary bodies sooner for less.\r\n\r\n Third, your numbers are way off. We need 250,000 to effectively administer Iraq given the foriegn fighters being fed in by Iran and Syria. We have ~150,000 with two divisions worth of Europeans and other allies headed for Iraq right now.\r\n\r\n We cannot let our combat forces be pinned down in the garrision role in Iraq. We need them free for other campaigns in the war.\r\n\r\n So if we have a force of 250,000 in Iraq just for garrision. Just how large a force structure are you going to need for mission there? The ratio of two units preparing for or coming back from a peacekeeping assignment means an on-going commitment to Iraq will require 750,000 troops in the force structure and they are not combat troops.\r\n\r\n The US Army is ~480,000 men while the USMC is ~ 160,000 men total. \r\n\r\n Add 750,000 to 480,000 and that gets 1,230,000.\r\n\r\n It is going to take a draft.\r\n\r\n ','2003-07-02 22:52:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4150,1,3714,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Nope. Gotta call BS on both of your comments. the war will be won by doing three things:\r\n\r\n1) eliminating the cadres, support, and resources of the terrorists as they sit.\r\n2) raising the cost of terrorist actions - makingthem more difficult and expensive to carry out.\r\n3) reducing the political, social and economic drivers - draining the swamp is the best way to kill the mosquitoes.\r\n\r\nIf you guys really think that the only path through this is offense, why do the Israeli\'s disagree with you?\r\n\r\nAnd if I\'m right in *my assumption* that we\'re dealng with something broader than just the Arab world, we\'re going to facing these issues for a while as we figure out how to stop them from happening.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-02 22:58:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4151,1,3710,'151.203.231.164','klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','A.L. - \r\n\r\nOn Sept 12 I would have done the same things Bush did, minus maybe some of the \"with us or against us\" rhetoric in public. \r\n\r\nIf anything I would have deployed more forces more rapidly, just to put bodies on the ground to get more of al-Qaeda, but I won\'t dispute that the Afghanistan campaign was a good idea.\r\n\r\nI expected an airborne forces/Spec Ops raid on Afghanistan in 1998 after the embassy bombings. Shoulda been done then.\r\n\r\nBush did a great job in 2001. It was the runup to the Iraq war where things started to go wrong.\r\n\r\nI admit I\'m ambivalent about the Iraq war, not just because my kid was always on the list of those going to go at some point. I always agreed with Hitchens\' view that Saddam was very evil to his own people. I would also grant that he was a potential threat to the USA, although not near as much as he was made out to be. I am intrigued by the idea of remaking Iraq - which has all the human and material resources required - into a democracy to revolutionize the Arab world. This is what I believe was the true reason for the war. Really, though, a risky experiment. The Iraq war might focus more enmity against the USA, recruit more al-Qaeda types. \r\n\r\nIraq was talked about on September 12, 2001, and if the war was decided on then or soon after, then the public and private diplomacy should have started then, not a year later. After all Seymour Hersh wrote in March or April 2002 that the war was coming, and his script played out almost exactly, as far as the timeline went. We had this campaign in fall and winter 2002 that seemed more designed to accomplish the objective of splitting Europe than gaining support for war with Iraq.\r\n\r\nYes, I know the French are playing their own game. You deal with that in private, or moderately in public. The French had announced and allocated substantial forces for Iraq before the end of 2002. \r\n\r\nThe Germans are helping us in Afghanistan, big time. Why do they have to have their noses rubbed in it?\r\n\r\nWe need mend our old friendships (yes, even with France) and put a lot more $$ into Afghanistan and Iraq than we have been doing.\r\n\r\nThere has to be a solution to the West Bank situation, and not one involving expulsion of the Arabs out of the West Bank or tank battles on the plains of Megiddo leading to the second coming. \r\n\r\nIt\'s insane that a few thousand settlers can stymie ending the occupation. It\'s time for the Israelis to pull out, build a wall if they have to, but pretty close to the 1967 borders. The demography demands it. Otherwise in 20 years Israel is a state with more Arabs than Jews within, except that the Arabs can\'t vote and have no rights. \r\n\r\nThe stuff about secure borders is a bunch of B.S. The Israelis have air and sea launched nukes, an unmatchable army and they have the USA backing them up. We just removed one of their major threats. What\'s the threat of invasion now? Make them cut a deal on this \"roadmap.\"\r\n\r\nAs far as other stuff goes, I\'m in favor of protections for labor and the environment, fair trials, decent wages and fiscal responsibility.','2003-07-02 23:00:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4152,1,3714,'198.26.123.36','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','A.L.\r\n\r\nWhat I said before still applies:\r\n\r\n\"America is in the chaos elimination business because tyranny anywhere is a threat to Americans everywhere, even at home. That is the searing lesson of 9/11. There is no such thing as defense in this war - only the complete elimination of our enemies. This means killing terrorists and reforming at gun point the societies that breed them.\"\r\n\r\nDemocrats are not for winning the war. \r\n\r\nThey are for _not losing it_, just like in Vietnam.\r\n\r\nThat is why Bush/Rove is going to kick their collective butts in 2004.','2003-07-02 23:02:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4153,1,3714,'138.133.17.9','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Well, I\'m in agreement that (absent my leaking the pictures I have of Bush and Michael Jackson in the hot tub) Bush comes out on top in 04 - although I\'m still willing to bet on how much he winds by.\r\n\r\nBut we\'ve got to combine offense and defense to win. \r\n\r\nBush has done a damn good job on offense. He\'s done a terrible job on defense. And I think that what he\'s done re pay and benefits for the military is both shameful and counterproductive in an era when retention and expansion of the military will be critical.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-02 23:23:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4154,1,3711,'217.128.180.172','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','AL\r\n\r\nIt\'s all a question of degree. I actually think that French and American interests are pretty much aligned on most major security and commercial issues. The question is how much free-riding, back-stabbing and profiteering at your expense (as opposed to cooperation, collective responsibility, etc.) can I justify under the labels of tradition and mulipolarity? I don\'t mind aikido, as long as the other guy doesn\'t have a jackknife in his boot.\r\n\r\nOtherwise, I concede the French do have a limited point about multipolarity. Even we recognize the principles of checks and balances. Indeed, I think balance of power is supposed to be a sacred and essential principle of liberal democracy and, to some extent, world order. Maybe. But do we really need the specifically French implementation of that concept in its most cynical form in these dangerous times? As they say in French, \"it may work in practice, but does it work in theory?\"\r\n\r\nPS- I hear CostCo is having a sale on home theatre systems.\r\n\r\n\r\nI don\'t mind aikido, as long as the other guy isn\'t armed with a dagger.','2003-07-02 23:27:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4155,1,3710,'207.170.32.195','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','I was wrong. Actually we need stress and relief from stress. Instead of complaining we should be enjoying the alternations of light and dark. It is inherent in us.\r\n\r\nVying for power and wealth is inherent. Man\'s seeminly fallen nature is part of man. As a Darwinist I don\'t see man as fallen but as adapted. The end result is the same. It is a good idea to either have a common bond or keep an eye on the guy over there. \r\n\r\nThere will be opposition to every policy and plan. To expect otherwise is to expect a human not yet widely available.\r\n\r\nThe objections will keep coming whether they are smart or stupid. The outs will always contest the ins. Money, sex, power. Children.\r\n\r\nAmerica because of it\'s wealth and power is fashionable. Act like the wealthy and powerful. It gives you a leg up with the women. Human nature.\r\n\r\nWhich is why America is opposed yet imitated. \r\n\r\nPeoples is strange.','2003-07-02 23:33:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4156,1,3714,'66.32.182.239','clue','clue@bcke.com','','...reforming at gun point the societies that breed them\r\n\r\nWhen has reform-at-gunpoint ever successfully elminated or even significantly reduced a society\'s production of new terrorists? It\'s the people most likely to become terrorists that are the least put off by the gunpoint.\r\n\r\nJust how this \"war\" could possibly be won by gunpoint is a mystery to me. The only conceivable way I can think of to completely wipe out the threat of terrorism would be to impose a global totalitarian system based on ubiquitous surveillance and law control.\r\n\r\nSure, with military operations around the globe smashing states, launching strikes against suspected terrorist locations or camps, carrot-and-sticking other nations to tow the line, share intelligence, engage in their own crackdowns, etc., you can probably prevent the reorganization of a centralized, massively funded and global organization like al Qaeda. What you get instead, especially because of the boot heel you\'re walking around the world with, are hundreds or thousands of smaller terrorist cells or even individuals, mostly unconnected, with axes to grind that are more local or regional than global. Maybe if you make our own country into a fortress you can even keep most of them out, but the higher you build the walls the more people will see them as targets.\r\n\r\nHow successful has the gunpoint been in Afghanistan? Sure, we destroyed the regime that sheltered a murderous, even genocidal organization. Good for us. But the country has decended a long way back towards the chaos that made the Taliban seem like an appealing alternative to the common people, and the U.S. gets at least its fair share of the blame for that. But this adminstration is incapable of thinking about more than one or two countries at a time, and now that Liberia seems to have gotten Karl Rove\'s attention, we can reasonable expect that Afghanistan will get even less, not the much, much more that it should get if we were actually concerned with not repeating the mistakes of the past.\r\n\r\nIf the Bush administration could actually reverse its mistakes in Afghanistan and not fuck up Iraq I\'d gain a lot of respect for it\'s foreign policy. But I\'m not holding my breath.','2003-07-02 23:35:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4157,1,3710,'207.170.32.195','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The bit about secure borders klatuu is about ending the Palestinian National Suicide Bombers etc. Of course if you think the nuclear option is the answer to those problems I won\'t disagree with you.\r\n\r\nI however would be kinder and gentler. One ton of high explosives delivered every minute for a day might reduce the problem to manageable proportions. Followed by tanks and infantry. To reduce the problem further.','2003-07-02 23:39:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4158,1,3711,'138.133.17.8','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Practically, I agree that we\'re talking about levels of behavior. I do think that we need to be \'firm but frank\' when our interests are at stake, but I am wary of the kind of hyperbolic demonization I\'ve read in some of Trent\'s more intemperate posts (and elsewhere, to be honest). Certain things, once said, are hard to back away from.\r\n\r\nAikido is actually one of the more useful arts in dealing with an opponent with a knife...in some ways, at close distances, better than being armed with a pistol. <g>\r\n\r\nAnd we do have a WEGA at home...it\'s just that the only thing it\'s connected to is a DVD player. <vbg>\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-02 23:48:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4159,1,3711,'217.128.180.172','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Well, I think Trent\'s take on the French is a bit to gentle and I commend him for his restraint. I\'ve even tried to add a little more muscle to some of his posts. Otherwise, I\'ll keep my distance and hold on to the dagger (I think Bruce would agree. Do your kids get to watch that sort of stuff?)','2003-07-03 00:09:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4160,1,3714,'198.26.123.36','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.ent','','A.L.,\r\n\r\n There is no defense in this war. Either the world changes or America does by becoming less free. The American people will not stand for the latter.\r\n\r\n All the Democrats are proposing is a bigger more brain dead \"War on Drugs.\"\r\n\r\n The current \"War on Drugs\" is a bigger threat to my rights as an American than the \"Patriot Act.\" Why the hell should I want a bigger one?\r\n\r\n Israel\'s problem is that today\'s Jews are not serious about doing what it takes to win for fear it would damage their Jewish identity after the tramas of the Lebanese war.\r\n\r\n The survivors of the Holocaust did not have that illusion. \r\n\r\n Nor do current day Americans outside the ruling factions in the Democratic Party.\r\n\r\n \r\nclue said:\r\n \r\n>When has reform-at-gunpoint ever successfully \r\n>elminated or even significantly reduced a \r\n>society\'s production of new terrorists?\r\n\r\n We did a damned fine job of stopping Japanese Kamikazies by fire bombing and finally nuking Japanese urban areas.\r\n\r\n If Americans get tired of \'herding cats\' in the Arab world plus Pakistan after we defeat their armies. That solution is still available.\r\n\r\n Pray that it does not come to that.\r\n\r\n America is going to do what ever it takes to be left alone at home. That is why America is going to win this war. When the American will is engaged fanatical resistance to American power simply increases the body count for non-Americans.\r\n\r\nclue also said:\r\n\r\n>Taliban seem like an appealing alternative to \r\n>the common people, and the U.S. gets at least \r\n>its fair share of the blame for that.\r\n\r\nThe reason Taliban fell so quickly was that it had simply become a bigger warlord gang by catering to the Al-qaeda\'s demands on the locals, particularly the women folk. The loss of security was already happening to the people with Islamic police state terror besides.\r\n\r\nWhat we are seeing now in Afghanistan is the Islamist wing of the Pakistani ISI starting to run a terrorist campaign from the Pashtun tribal territories into Afghanistan the way they have run one from Pakistan into Khasmiri India for the last 20 years.\r\n\r\nFor all that, the facts on the ground argue that things are better in Afghanistan. Several million refugees have returned home from Pakistan. That kind of thing only happens when the relative security situation for the refugees is better in Afghanistan than Pakistan.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-03 00:11:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4161,1,3702,'203.202.144.223','bargarz','bargarz@hotmail.com','http://bargarz.blogspot.com','I guess another consideration that hasn\'t received much attention is where the respective immigrants are coming from. \r\n\r\nFor example, according to US INS figures from 2002, five countries account for 40% of all legal immigrants to the US (Mexico, India, China, the Philippines, and Vietnam). No doubt, the vast bulk of illegal immigrants are from similar countries, especially Latin America. By comparison, most of Europe\'s immigrants (excluding those immigrants from Eastern Europe) are from the Middle East, North Africa, India and China.\r\n\r\nIt may not be entirely PC to raise a question that compares immigrants (comparitive quality is a loaded term) but history would tend to support my guess that the US will have a far easier time assimilating its immigrants than most European nations will. \r\n\r\nAdditionally, a significant bulk of immigrants to the US are Catholic whereas many to Europe are Muslim. This observation is not to demonise Muslims but to point out that there will be differences in relative assimilation due to those factors as well.','2003-07-03 00:16:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4162,1,3705,'66.47.140.59','BushisworsethanHitlerSatanandKennyG','goodlookingui@earthlink.net','','Brilliant satire! That read just like the jacket description of \"Reluctant Warriors: Re-Evaluating and Imperialism the Urban Revolutionary Struggle\" (which I was forced to purchase for my Political Economy class in college). I especially loved the swipe at leftists -- false bougouise consciousness leftists -- although quoting Marx to criticise leftists doesn\'t sting quite as much ever since Noam Chomsky supplanted Marx as the leading leftist theorist.\r\n\r\nMy only criticism is that you didn\'t use the word \"contextualizing\" nearly enough.','2003-07-03 00:16:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4163,1,3705,'217.128.180.172','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','I guess I agree with everyone. I had frankly never read Sokal\'s parody, but just have, and am amazed to find how much the themes and a lot of the language is actually similar. Actually, I think you could trace far left themes and language to the romanticism of Che or the angst of Heiddeger, or even to John Locke or John Stuart Mill or puritans or Rousseau or whomever. Hey, maybe I am losing my mind! Actually, I think the key turning point for the Left was when Clairol came out with Herbal Essence Shampoo: the ultimate romantic projection of naturist animist revolutionary anti-science themes into that superstructure sitting atop your scalp. Before that it was all about Ph and some liquid formulated by a guy in a white coat.','2003-07-03 00:27:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4164,1,3705,'208.197.9.62','Joe Schmoe','joe_t_schmoe@yahoo.com','','Brilliant! That is one of the funniest things I have read in a long time. Kudos to Gabriel Gonzalez! ','2003-07-03 00:28:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4165,1,3714,'172.203.57.131','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','oddly enough, i agree with both trent and a.l. here. \r\n\r\nthe democratic approach - including that of the so called democrats for national security - is half hearted at best. the current homeland security initiatives are also lacking in various ways and over-reliant on social control stopgap measures rather than an innovative and effective approach that would get and deserve as much respect as this administrations current strategy on the attack component of this situation. \r\n\r\nhow long it will all last depends on how we look at it. as far as im concerned, the most important factors of all of these arguments are not the short term negatively defined sacrifices we make, but rather the positively defined total policy changes that will be beneficial to us without the limit of any time stamp. a vigorous and unpredictable military that is fully capable of defending and advancing our freedom and intervene to ensure the basic freedom of the world, is not something that will lose its value in 2 years, 10 years, or in a generation. \r\n\r\nthe same is true with effective homeland security that recognizes that safe air travel, nuclear threat prevention, biochemical response, health system overhauls, and coordination between all facets of emergency services, etc are all just as important as hunting down any terror threat, anytime, anywhere. \r\n\r\ni have come a long way personally from voting against bush in 2000 to the point where i am adamant in my support of bush in 2004. i appreciate what bush has done well, to the point where i have personally changed my opinion of him. that does not mean i think his administration is as succesful at homeland security as it could be. but for the democrats to have any chance of gaining my vote back in 2004 they will have to show much more than a desire to not lose. they have to go above and beyond the current admin in proving to all of us that they want to win, and arent just saying so as a political calculation. \r\n\r\nhonestly, i have come to have so many problems with the democratic party as a whole (mostly because of my feeling that the party has so deeply and permanently betrayed the principles i had always thought we shared) that i may never enthusiastically vote for a democrat again. that isnt to say of course that the republicans automatically have my vote either. they have a habit of destroying any chance they get with that -- what with the rampant homophobia, the constant lapses into hysteria just as bad as the worst of the ultra-left, and all the rest. \r\n\r\njust going to have to wait and see which candidates actually earn my vote. their reasons for making their choice of positions on foreign policy and homeland defense will be critical to my decisions.','2003-07-03 00:32:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4166,1,3698,'66.47.140.59','Sean','goodlookingui@earthlink.net','','All this speculation is dependent on who the Democrats nominate as their standard bearer in 2004.\r\n\r\nIf the Democrats nominate Liebermann, they would have a candidate with significant understanding of National Security issues, hawkish in temperment, eager to build coalitions but unwilling to give earstwhile allies veto power over US foreign policy. Combine that with a sharp critique of the Bush administration\'s irresponsibility over the federal defecit, and this election would turn on voters\' perception of the state of the economy in 2004 (not a bad situation for the Democrats to be in).\r\n\r\nIf the Democrats nominate Gephardt or Edwards, they will have a candidate who can partially neutralize Bush\'s strength on national security, thus giving them a chance at victory under the right conditions.\r\n\r\nBut Dean? He doesn\'t appear to be serious about national defense, or about developing a strategy for winning the war on terrorism. In light of 9/11, I doubt swing voters will elect a candidate with so little interest in this issue. Vietnam combat notwithstanding, Kerry\'s highly visible efforts to play both sides of this issue makes him appear equally flighty (a President, unlike a Senator, can\'t declare, un-declare, declare, and undeclare war like a kid picking daisy petals). Either of those candidates would doom the Democrats even if the economy is still sour in 2004.\r\n\r\nOf course, since I think Dean is the likely nominee, I can understand why people are already writing the Democrats\' 2004 obituary. Still, the primary voting season hasn\'t started and Lieberman IS leading in the polls, at least at the moment.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-03 00:35:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4167,1,3714,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Balagan -\r\n\r\nWait till this wekeend, when I write my screed on the Democrats...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-03 00:39:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4168,1,3714,'165.66.72.212','Tim','tj@hotmail.com','','A.L.,\r\n\r\nYou aren\'t wrong about the need for a better homeland security - but you are wrong in stating that the Democrats are for national security when all they want is \"homeland security\" and we can never buy enough \"homeland security\" to make us secure. Or do you really think we can?\r\n\r\nYou may not believe Bush is paying enough attention to homeland security, but I prefer a president who places a priority on taking the war to our enemies rather than passively awaiting for the next attack. Too many of us have forgotten that Clinton\'s limp-wristed response to Mogadishu, among other events, led bin Laden to perceive us a paper tiger. Bush offers us Churchill - and as no Democrat is yet able to offer full-throated support for unilateral military action in defense of the nation - the Democrats offer us Chamberlain. And until they can, it is preposterous to claim the Democrats have a \"national security\" policy.\r\n\r\nIf the Democrats don\'t change, I think we both know which way America is going to choose in \'04, and probably in \'08 as well.\r\n','2003-07-03 00:39:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4169,1,3705,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','\"BushisworsethanHitlerSatanandKennyG\"\r\n\r\nWorse than Kenny G!?! Alright, them\'s fightin\' words....','2003-07-03 00:45:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4170,1,3714,'207.245.113.120','Undertoad','undertoad@cellar.org','http://cellar.org','Ennh, you\'re all wrong. The US public rewards Bush in 2004 with solid majority as a reward for being a strong leader. By 2006 we will be back to 50%-land as the American public forgets about terrorism as an issue and interests start to eye another peace dividend. BUT all bets are off if there is another serious hit or the revealing of a serious plot. I can\'t imagine what kind of spin cycle that would set off.\r\n','2003-07-03 01:44:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4171,1,3714,'66.32.182.239','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Bush offers us Churchill? My God, have you ever listened to the *man speak*?\r\n\r\n\"Well, first of all, we\'ll put together a force structure who meets the threats on the ground. And we\'ve got a lot of forces there, ourselves. And as I said yesterday, anybody who wants to harm American troops will be found and brought to justice. There are some who feel like that if they attack us that we may decide to leave prematurely. They don\'t understand what they\'re talking about, if that\'s the case.\r\n\r\n\"Let me finish. There are some who feel like -- that the conditions are such that they can attack us there. My answer is, bring them on. We\'ve got the force necessary to deal with the security situation. Of course we want other countries to help us -- Great Britain is there, Poland is there, Ukraine is there, you mentioned. Anybody who wants to help, we\'ll welcome the help. But we\'ve got plenty tough force there right now to make sure the situation is secure. We always welcome help. We\'re always glad to include others in. But make no mistake about it -- and the enemy shouldn\'t make any mistake about it -- we will deal with them harshly if they continue to try to bring harm to the Iraqi people.\"\r\n\r\nChurchill? He\'s not even FDR. We got attacked by stateless Islamic fundamentalists and in response we\'ve destroyed the dispicable though secular government of an Arab nation. Instead of \"We shall fight them on land...\" we get \"Bring them on!\" And this, of course, in response to the death and injury of American soldiers. Please.','2003-07-03 02:21:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4172,1,3714,'66.32.182.239','clue','clue@bcke.com','','And by the way, since people are so happy to trot out poor limp-wristed Chamberlain\'s ghost, let\'s not forget that bin Laden\'s primary complaint against the U.S. was the presence of our troops in Saudi Arabia. Now we\'re pulling out our troops. Where are the cries of \"appeasement\" now?','2003-07-03 02:22:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4173,1,3705,'66.32.182.239','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Katzman,\r\n\r\nWe\'ll let Kenny G live if you take back Celine.','2003-07-03 02:32:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4174,1,3705,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','I\'m sorry, clue, you leave us no choice. Celine Dione is hereby sentenced to stay in your country for the rest of her days.','2003-07-03 03:00:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4175,1,3714,'65.27.184.129','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com','\"Bush offers us Churchill? My God, have you ever listened to the *man speak*?\"\r\n\r\nSo Churchill was more eloquent. There is more to leadership than eloquence; I\'m sure there were some mighty fine talkers among the Vichy French.\r\n\r\n\"And by the way, since people are so happy to trot out poor limp-wristed Chamberlain\'s ghost, let\'s not forget that bin Laden\'s primary complaint against the U.S. was the presence of our troops in Saudi Arabia. Now we\'re pulling out our troops. Where are the cries of \"appeasement\" now?\"\r\n\r\nSo you\'re incapable of telling the difference between conceding to terrorist demands and making a decision based on a different situation? Troops were in Saudi Arabia in order to defend the Saudis against Saddam. That need isn\'t there anymore, for some reason that escapes me, so we\'re moving the troops where they\'ll be more welcome/less in danger/more useful.\r\n\r\nOr would you rather we just keep them there out of spite?','2003-07-03 03:10:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4176,1,3705,'66.32.182.239','clue','clue@bcke.com','','That\'s unConstitutionally cruel and unusual. The woman\'s Vegas dressing room is twice the size of my house.\r\n\r\nCan we send you Whitney Houston?','2003-07-03 03:12:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4177,1,3705,'67.32.251.86','Chris Lawrence','blog@lordsutch.com','http://blog.lordsutch.com/','It reads just like a normative theory article in the American Political Science Review, except I actually understood some of it. Ergo, it has to be parody.','2003-07-03 03:41:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4178,1,3705,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Gee, what a shame that OUR constitution has no such clauses. The key test we have to meet is \"reasonably justified in a free and democratic society.\" Hmm, cruelty to Americans vs. Canadian peace of mind... don\'t like your odds there, clue.\r\n\r\nWhy don\'t you bundle them all up with Michael Bolton and Mariah Carey send them on a goodwill tour of Iran? We\'ll throw in Rita \"MOAB\" McNeil, but you\'ll have to supply the C-5 to get her into theater.\r\n\r\nFor a catchy name, I suggest \"The Win Without War Tour 2003.\"','2003-07-03 03:47:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4179,1,3710,'68.166.80.225','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://www.overpressure.com','klaatu - the article you link does not represent abandonment. \r\n\r\nIs Afghanistan a rough place? Sure it is. But we ARE there, and we ARE building roads and hospitals and schools. \r\n\r\nTry here and here.\r\n\r\nAs for the \"bring it on\" statement, get the whole thing in context:\r\n\r\nQ Mr. President, a posse of small nations -- like the Ukraine and Poland -- are materializing to help keep the peace in Iraq. But with the attacks on U.S. forces and the casualty rates rising, what is the administration doing to get larger powers, like France and Germany and Russia, to join the American occupation there? \r\n\r\nTHE PRESIDENT: Well, first of all, we\'ll put together a force structure who meets the threats on the ground. And we\'ve got a lot of forces there, ourselves. And as I said yesterday, anybody who wants to harm American troops will be found and brought to justice. There are some who feel like that if they attack us that we may decide to leave prematurely. They don\'t understand what they\'re talking about, if that\'s the case. \r\n\r\nLet me finish. There are some who feel like -- that the conditions are such that they can attack us there. My answer is, bring them on. We\'ve got the force necessary to deal with the security situation. Of course we want other countries to help us -- Great Britain is there, Poland is there, Ukraine is there, you mentioned. Anybody who wants to help, we\'ll welcome the help. But we\'ve got plenty tough force there right now to make sure the situation is secure. We always welcome help. We\'re always glad to include others in. But make no mistake about it -- and the enemy shouldn\'t make any mistake about it -- we will deal with them harshly if they continue to try to bring harm to the Iraqi people. \r\n\r\nI also said yesterday an important point, that those who blow up the electricity lines really aren\'t hurting America, they\'re hurting the Iraq citizens; their own fellow citizens are being hurt. But we will deal with them harshly, as well. \r\n\r\nWhat good does that kind of talk do? A hell of a lot more than hemming and hawing and letting some street toughs scare us away from doing what has to be done by killing a few of our guys.\r\n\r\nI\'m not dismissing the deaths as trivial. Every single loss of life is a personal tragedy. Every loss is terrible.\r\n\r\nBut in the grander scheme of things, it isn\'t that bad, and the President is right - those who think they can chase us off are wrong - we DO have the force to deal with them. ','2003-07-03 04:23:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4196,1,3710,'166.61.238.10','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','\'I can\'t even watch the TV news anymore,\' one friend said. \'Three dead in Gaza gets one minute, followed by another American shot in Iraq, a minute and a half - and then they cut to Scott Peterson and I turn the thing off. Even in 1968, in the worst of everything that year, there was some hope. Not now. It\'s gone, and I don\'t think it\'s coming back.\'\r\n\r\nThis is a very strange comment. Haven\'t these people paid any attention whatsoever to the homicide rate in the US? It must hurt to pull your head out of the sand for the first time in 30+ years. Or do the deaths in America not count?\r\n\r\nAlso, I consider myself a social Darwinist, but I also believe that society/the government have a duty to care for those Americans who cannot care for themselves. How strange the enmity the left and the right have for Darwin.\r\n\r\nThe wall built around (is it) the Gaza Strip (? I forget which) has stopped the suicide bombers. I\'d say that was a \"secure border\". Although it won\'t prevent them from chucking things over the wall... Ever wonder if Israel would have to pull out into the ocean to get the suicide bombers to stop?','2003-07-03 18:34:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4181,1,3716,'24.28.2.101','Matthew','portablematthew@yahoo.com','http://fearfulsymmetry.blogspot.com/','I\'d like to thank the academy for my No-Prize and thank Gabriel for his delicate grasp of the minutiae of left-wing gibberish.','2003-07-03 04:58:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4182,1,3705,'66.32.182.239','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Oh no, if anybody\'s riding a MOAB into Tehran, it\'s Toby Keith.','2003-07-03 05:10:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4183,1,3714,'12.246.71.234','Tim','tj@hotmail.com','','Clue,\r\n\r\nBush as Churchill relates to his desire to take the war to the enemy rather than nervously pacing the halls waiting for the next attack - which is all the Democrats offer with their incessant complaining about \"homeland security.\" I\'m not a big fan of Bush\'s speaking style - but I just don\'t care about that relative to national security and defeating our enemies where they live. Pick your most articulate Democrat and, despite that chances are he or she is flat wrong on this issue.\r\n\r\nAnd if you don\'t understand how state support is vital to al-Queda carrying out attacks like September 11, then you don\'t much understand the threat. Sure, they can hurt us in small ways without state support - and after Afghanistan and Iraq, my bet is few states are willing to step forward as al-Queda\'s host. Because if they do, I bet they understand \"regime change\" no matter how poorly Bush articulates it or how little they know English.\r\n\r\nBut Bush\'s speaking skills are beside the point, aren\'t they? What this really comes down to is we either win the war on terrorism overseas or lose it here at home. Bush as clearly chosen to win overseas - whereas the Democrats believe they can somehow win by federalizing public safety programs in major urban areas. \r\n\r\nBut they really aren\'t serious, are they? Democrats are going to give drivers licenses to immigrants, legal or not, in California, without regard to security. Democrats complain that we are still vulnerable - but they complain about the Patriot Act - and does anyone really believe a less intrusive set of security measures will be more effective in protecting us? The Democrat focus on \"homeland security\" is really about four gross political calculations: an opportunity to poke at Bush, since we can never do enough to protect homeland security; an opportunity to burnish \"national security\" credentials without endorsing the cruel but potentially necessary need for war; an opportunity to lobby on behalf of big city mayors and public employee unions (or have you forgotten the Democrat hold-out for union power in the Homeland Security Dept. authorizing bill?) for more federal cash; and finally an opportunity to highlight the opportunity cost of Bush\'s tax cuts. It\'s about all of those things, but it isn\'t about homeland security. ','2003-07-03 05:28:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4184,1,3714,'172.203.57.131','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','i really dont see how keeping our troops in saudi arabia just so bin laden is happy is any different than pulling our troops out of saudi arabia just so bin laden is happy. bin laden and his psychophants are going to hate us and use what we do against us either way. i vote we do what we think is militarily best to hunt him and his down instead of letting our fear of his video tapped pronouncements dictate our military strategy. robert is 110% correct (gets bonus points for stating the obvious :) ), our troops have been pulled out of saudi arabia because the reason they were there no longer exists. not to mention the additional benefit of allowing us to exert much more pressure on the house of saud and to move our military around with less restriction. personally i see the withdrawl as a win-win situation for us and a means of depriving bin laden of 1 topic out of 1000 to rant about. ','2003-07-03 05:31:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4185,1,3702,'68.154.168.43','Boris A.Kupershmidt','maps4u@hotmail.com','','Future economic/demographic projections for more than 10 years forward \r\nare worthless and should be ignored, \r\nbecause so many variables that are involved are unpredictable.\r\n One should look instead for stable trends.\r\n I see just one such: the percentage of\r\n_private_ pension savings vs future total\r\npension spendings.\r\nThe US is light years ahead in this respect\r\ncompared to Europe. This is the real European time-bomb ticking; \r\nand the way the European tax system has evolved, there is no conceivable practical solution to the problem before the revolution sweeps away the whole socialist house of cards.','2003-07-03 05:35:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4186,1,3714,'172.203.57.131','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','\"Democrats complain that we are still vulnerable - but they complain about the Patriot Act - and does anyone really believe a less intrusive set of security measures will be more effective in protecting us?\"\r\n\r\ntim, i dont think its a matter of more or less intrustive. we have to remember what we are fighting for here. there is a validity to the claim that if we give away our freedom then we are playing right into the hands of the terrorists and the ultra-paranoid. there is an equal validity to the claim that if we spend all our time navel gazing over the remote possibility of becoming a police state that we will ignore the very real police states, terror states, and terrorist organizations without state borders which are staring us right in the face - at the expense of our own lives and freedom. \r\n\r\nin a soundbite: it is a fool who chooses between security and freedom. what we need to advance is both. \r\n\r\nour strongest weapons against terror happen to be our freedom, military, economics, and ability to coordinate the information we have. a winning strategy combines all of these along with the smarts to use them. ','2003-07-03 05:41:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4187,1,3705,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Rita isn\'t riding a MOAB, clue. She IS the MOAB.','2003-07-03 06:15:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4188,1,3711,'64.169.130.151','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','It appears the memorial is for a single British regiment, the Sherwood Foresters, and the empty flagpole is used only for its regimental flag. I.e., the only French connection here is geographic. The calls were made by British regimental protocol.','2003-07-03 06:25:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4189,1,3671,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','\"Get there fastest with the mostest.\"\r\n - General Nathan Bedford Forest','2003-07-03 06:27:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4190,1,3711,'81.67.220.231','Caton','bdm94120@yahoo.fr','','Trent,\r\n\r\nThere\'s some confusion here... In Bayeux, there is the Memorial Museum of the Battle of Normandy. At the entrance of the Museum, you will find the flags of all the Allies.\r\n\r\nOn the grounds of the Museum, there is the Sherwood Rangers Memorial -- the one with the empty pole. It\'s the only unit memorial in the Museum, and it\'s there because the Sherwood Rangers liberated Bayeux. The Memorial has been built in 1993.\r\n\r\nPersonally, I\'m shocked at the presence of a French flag on the Sherwood Rangers Memorial :-)','2003-07-03 11:54:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4191,1,3714,'12.246.71.234','Tim','tj@hotmail.com','','Balagan,\r\n\r\nI do not disagree. I do not wish to sacrifice essential liberties and civil rights to secure ourselves from terrorism - which is why I think the Democrat notion of \"we\'re failing homeland security\" is mendacious. They want it both ways: Patriot Act is a dire threat to individual liberties and rights; but the Administration is lax on security. O.k., I don\'t know how they square that circle, but I\'m not a Democrat so I\'m not genetically hardwired to drink that Koolade.\r\n\r\nWe cannot fully secure ourselves at home without completely recasting our society - we are too big, too free, our borders are too long and there are far too many targets to think we can immunize ourselves from terrorism without imposing a near-totalitarian police state. And no amount of money spend on first responders will protect us either. We simply cannot win the war on terrorism without defeating the enemy in his home - and the Democrats have no stomach for that.','2003-07-03 14:45:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4192,1,3703,'65.82.128.126','Eric Lindholm','MadSwede10@aol.com','http://vikingpundit.blogspot.com','Did you see the BBC headline: Saudi Bombing mastermind \"kills himself\"\r\n\r\nYes, they left the quotes in the headline. Oh boy.\r\n','2003-07-03 16:27:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4193,1,3703,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Yes, indeed, thanks to M. Simon. Guy apparently \"blew himself up,\" no less. Blogged it over at Command Post, as we\'re pretty full up today and the al-Ghamdi shennanigans are the more critical long-term story.\r\n\r\nBut I agree with your take on this. To quote the SNL Church Lady: \"isn\'t that conveeeenient.\" Doesn\'t leave a body to identify, or a suspect to talk.','2003-07-03 16:37:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4194,1,3710,'151.203.231.164','klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','blaster: I\'m not saying we\'re doing nothing in Afghanistan, I\'m just saying we\'re doing it half-assed.\r\n\r\nM. Simon: Right: the so-called \"secure borders\" have not stopped suicide bombers. I believe the \"secure borders\" are the main cause of the suicide bombers.\r\n\r\nLook at it this way: who has the choice here, Israel or the Palestinians? The Palestinians can keep doing the suicide bombings. On the other hand, if Israel does not pull out of the West Bank, or creates phony \"bantustans\" for the sake of a few thousand settlers, the suicide bombings will surely continue, no matter how many Palestinian houses are destroyed, how many raids are conducted, etc. As the demographic weight of the Arabs west of the Jordan increases, Israel either becomes an extremly oppressive apartheid state, or ceases being a Jewish state.\r\n\r\nAs for social Darwinism, this is just another robber-baron era doctrine being revived, like imperialism. Is this 1903 or 2003?\r\n\r\nPeople that post on the internet tend to be of above-average intelligence. I\'ve noticed that many of them subscribe to these harsh social Darwinist policies.\r\n\r\nI happen to belive that mentally retarded people, for example, have a place in socety, deserve to earn a living and be treated with dignity. Not only is it the right thing to do, but I know from experience in the criminal courts that ignoring and degrading the less-favored results in violence and social disorder for the more-favored.\r\n','2003-07-03 18:04:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4195,1,3710,'151.203.231.164','klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','M. Simon - \r\n\r\nOh, I missed that point that you made about just killing the Arabs with \"one ton of high explosives delivered every minute for a day\" (would those be precision-guided?) or nukes.\r\n\r\nUm, that\'s not the solution either. ','2003-07-03 18:12:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4197,1,3709,'66.47.140.59','BushisworsethanHitlerSatanandKennyG','goodlookingui@earthlink.net','','Stephen:\r\n\r\nGood point. And might I also add that the war and occupation of Iraq isn\'t going NEARLY as badly as the opponents predicted. Are we at the predicted 250,000 casualty figure yet? How about 100,000? 10,000? 5000? Hell, Saddam murdered more people than that on an average month.\r\n\r\nAnd, has anybody noticed Martin Sheen\'s recent dissappearing act? That wouldn\'t have anything to do with his claim that (paraphrasing) \"you don\'t have to be an expert on foreign policy to know that this war will be a catastrophe,\" would it?\r\n','2003-07-03 22:35:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4198,1,3717,'151.203.231.164','klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','Well, 20 teens and post-teens in Maghrebi \'hood in France do not a \"threat\" make. Besides, some of the comments about Judaism were quite positive.\r\n\r\nDoes anyone ever think that maybe what the US is doing and saying is threatening to other countries, and not just the \"axis of evil\"?\r\n\r\nFor another perspective, the incomparable William Pfaff commented on the French and European threat today:\r\n\r\n\"Those Americans who still think that current trans-Atlantic differences are a relatively harmless disagreement - with Europeans \"from Venus,\" possessing virtuous illusions about international legality and multilateral institutions - are today being told that they are badly mistaken.\r\n\r\nA prominent theme of neoconservative writing and television talk is that a Franco-German-dominated European Union, rebuilt according to the new Giscardian constitution currently under debate, threatens to become \"superpower Europe\" and a mortal danger to the United States.\r\n\r\nThe New Republic, an influential Washington weekly, has just announced that \"America must wake up!\" to the danger from an expanded and united Europe and the newly strengthened European currency, the euro.\r\n\r\nFew Americans acknowledge any moral weight in \"old\" Europe.\r\n\r\nIt may even be too late, one author claims. Britain, Spain, Italy and others who supported Washington in the Iraq war may next time be dragged into the Franco-German orbit by economic integration and dependence, and other constraints of EU membership.\r\n\r\nAnother writer warns that Europe\'s low growth and productivity statistics conceal the great advantage a stable Europe possesses over an unstable and erratic U.S. economy, undermined by corruption and excess.\r\n\r\nFrance is systematically denigrated, as to a lesser extent is Germany - Germany is thought salvageable, or open to intimidation, once Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder is gone. France is portrayed as suffering from \"a profound pathology,\" and America\'s enemy. In Washington power-corridor leaks to the press, in neo-conservative magazines and on the Internet, France is said to be driven by hatred, national vanity and the personal vanity of Jacques Chirac, and as allied with the radical Arab world out of fear of France\'s unassimilated Muslim population.\r\n\r\nIt is described as incorrigibly and dangerously anti-Semitic. The French, like the Germans (the Daniel Goldhagen argument), are described as instinctively anti-Semitic and culturally disposed to totalitarianism.\r\n\r\nFrance even is \"not a Western country anymore\" since in \"many\" cities \"no teenage girl can go out in the evening, at least without a full burqa.\" (These quotes are from the neo-con Web site www.FrontPageMagazine.com, whose contributors include quite well-known figures, including some from the political right in France itself).\r\n\r\nThis kind of nonsense sets the tone. Few Americans acknowledge any intellectual or moral weight or merit on the \"old\" European side, and certainly not on that of France.\"\r\n\r\nThe complete article: \r\n\r\nhttp://www.iht.com/articles/101523.html\r\n','2003-07-04 00:41:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4199,1,3119,'64.231.121.196','Ghost of a flea','nicholaspackwood@yahoo.com','http://www.ghostofaflea.com','I read Mr. Sensing\'s post shortly after he wrote it only to realize later I should have bookmarked it immediately. Thanks for writing about his piece as you helped me to find it again.','2003-07-04 02:54:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4200,1,3718,'4.61.200.35','Martin','Martin@nospam.com','http://www.patiopundit.com/','Wow.','2003-07-04 03:37:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4201,1,3698,'208.187.40.26','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','The problem for the Democrats is that Dean is dragging the whole field so far to the left in the primaries that they will not be able to recover the center for the general election.','2003-07-04 04:01:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4202,1,3718,'68.194.229.245','John','moonburns@earthlink.net','','A.L., thanks for this. I have a smaller child, and it\'s good to see the future (at least, I hope I can raise my child to have the same self-posession that your son has).\r\n\r\nGood luck,\r\n\r\n- John','2003-07-04 04:20:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4203,1,3718,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Others in the blogosphere are dealing with the same thing. Marine, Don... good choice.','2003-07-04 05:08:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4204,1,3703,'12.90.102.102','Patrick Walsh','walshp@worldnet.att.net','','Dan, Great roundup of the war. I have to say that while I agree with Dunnigan\'s assessment of the enemy\'s current course of action; I disagree somewhat with Greg Buete\'s recommended friendly course of action or perhaps forcefully disagree with his characterization of friendly troops available and what their capabilities are. Neither one adequately addresses the current friendly strategy.\r\n\r\nIn short, I think General Shinseki, the outgoing Army Chief of Staff was probably correct in his estimate that we needed somewhere in the neighborhood 200k troops to effectively occupy Iraq. And while the Special Forces are absolutely essential to an effective counter-guerrilla, counter-insurgency campaign they simply cannot, by themselves, carry out the full range of Support and Security Operations that are needed. There are not enough of them in the whole Army to begin with and they don\'t have the equipment or expertise to do the full range of missions.\r\n\r\nIt is funny that the implied criticism of conventional forces that Greg Buete makes is that all they know how to do is kill people and break things in large numbers and then all he talks about is how the SF is so good at killing people in smaller numbers.\r\n\r\nHe totally ignores the concept of Combined Arms which is when different types of forces operate in a mutually supporting manner, so that the complentary and reinforcing effects combine synergistically to produce an effect greater than any individual part could do. \r\n\r\nLook, there are a whole bunch of things that need to be done in Iraq. On the support and nation building side; roads, hospitals, sewage treatment plants, water purification plants, electrical generation plants etc, etc need to be built and maintained. The conventional Army and other services have folks who can do just that. SF can\'t or can only do it on a small scale and they are more valuable and better at going and finding the bad guys and killing them. At some point civilian contractors, NGO\'s or reconsitituted Iraqi agencies will take over those jobs but until they do, thousands of guys in BDU\'s will do it. A large number of the 146,000 troops in Iraq are engineers, medical units, and logistics units. A good case can be made that we need more of these guys and sooner. Not fewer. Now, so that they and eventually the contracors, NGO\'s and reconstituted Iraqi agencies can do their thing we have to have security.\r\n\r\nThat is where all the conventional Armor, Infantry and Aviation units come in. Iraq is a big country. Baghdad alone is a huge city. The friendly forces engaged in nation building have to be guarded, the main roads have to be kept open, the key infrastructure has to be secured, the bad guys we capture have to be secured. That, flat out, takes lots of people. And, while a tank is not a good tool to use searching houses it is great for setting up a checkpoint (along with a squad of infantry) at a road intersection twenty miles into the desert or patrolling the main highway to make sure the bad guys don\'t set up their own check points or lay mines. It is also a great thing to have around when the bad guys get a bunch of SUV\'s with .50 Cals and RPG\'s and go roaring around the countryside shooting things up. Ditto helicopters, only more so. Of course it takes 10 log and admin types to keep one tank or helicopter running and another couple infantry guys to secure all of them. Speaking of infantry, if you want to keep a single infantryman on a street corner 24 X 7 you need at least five guys to do it. You need one guy for each 8 hour shift, one guy to replace anyone who gets sick or wounded and another guy to be in charge of the other four. There are literally thousands of points we want to secure....we need lots of troops to do that.\r\n\r\nBuete talked about intelligence. The SF and CIA types are good, maybe even great, at setting up human intelligence networks but what about collecting signal intelligence, satellite and aerial photography, prisoner interrogation, document translation and then tying all that data from all those different sources together in some coherent form? That takes intelligence battalion\'s. Hundreds of girls and guys crunching all that data and assimilating it using very sohpisticated processes and equipment. And of course, people to supply them and people to secure both the intel folks and the log folks suporting them. Some of that can and should be done out of theater, but some of it has to be done right there on the ground.\r\n\r\nThen there is the business of finding the bad guys and killing them. In Afghanistan our SF guys were working with thousands of Afghani militia who had their own tanks, SUV\'s, infantry and mortars. If they had been alone on a hilltop with their radio and GLD the bad guys would have just overrun them and killed them with small arms and mortars. The bad guys couldn\'t do that because our allies would have shot them as they approached. Complementary and reinforcing effects.\r\n\r\nThere is no force equivalent to the Northern Alliance in most of Iraq and until there is we will have to rely on American units. Our conventional forces can be a safe refuge (and rescue/extraction force) for the SF while they are working the counterguerrila ops and they can be the heavy muscle to destroy any concentrations of the bad guys that we find. \r\n\r\nIn Panama, our Light Infantry forces and SF operated in small combined forces teams to secure the outlying barrios and villages after the main fighting in Panama City took place. In a typical scenario an Infantry platoon and an SF NCO would go to a village. The Infantry would surround the vilage and the SF NCO would address the Panamanian Defense Force in Spanish and negotiate their surrender. If the SF NCO had been alone he probably would have just been shot. If the Infantry had gone in alone there probably would have been a firefight and lots of casualties. Complementary and reinforcing effects.\r\n\r\nFinally, there is the pyschological effects of our forces. While there is a danger of our guys being unwelcome guests it is certain that most Iraqi\'s did not believe Hussein\'s regime had been destroyed until our troops came to their town and took down the statues. A single SF soldier or even a dozen simply does not have the same effect. Handled correctly, our presence in Iraq, in large numbers, demonstrates our resolve and our power, reasures our allies and those who fear the Baathists, and intimidates those other countries in the region who now know that we can drive into their capital in a matter of hours.\r\n\r\nI would argue that the problems we are having are not due to having too many troops in Iraq but to not having enough. We have enough troops there to annoy people but not enough to overwhelm those who are predisposed to cause trouble. Every town and tenement which does not have a regular American presence is a potential refuge for the bad guys. It would be harder, although not impossible, for them to assemble and plan their operations if Americans were constantly patrolling the streets and observing the neighborhoods and (tactfully) searching buildings and questioning people. Yes, this would have the potential for antagonizing people but that is a risk I prefer to not having enough forces and it is one that could be mitigated by training and assigning the right troops to the job. One of the reasons the 4th ID is forced to conduct foot patrols is because there isn\'t anyone else there. It sure would be nice to have one of Light Infantry Divisions that were deactivated in the 1990\'s there to do that patrolling instead of dismounted mech infantry or artillerymen.\r\n\r\nWell this has gone on too long. I still haven\'t addressed what I think our strategy is in Iraq and the potential risks and rewards associated with it. Maybe next time.\r\n\r\n\r\n ','2003-07-04 05:42:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4205,1,3671,'12.90.102.102','Patrick Walsh','walshp@worldnet.att.net','','Awesome! Now if we can just get the Navy to purchase ten or twelve more fast Roll-on, Roll-off (RO-RO\'s) ships we\'ll be set. We could then have a Heavy-Light Army Corp anywhere in the world in about three weeks.','2003-07-04 06:11:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4206,1,3703,'65.95.80.7','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Patrick, this post plus that post = a full Guest Blog. The invitation is open.','2003-07-04 06:48:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4207,1,3671,'61.9.192.172','wretchard','wretchardthecat@hotmail.com','http://belmontclub.blogspot.com','I suspect it\'s not the packaging, so much as the computer and tagging systems that are truly revolutionary. The containers make the physical handling easier, but its the ability to treat them as logical units which can married to needs that is the real breakthrough. It\'s what enables the logistics manager to route packets onward to their eventual destination without periodic resorting, through alternative routes when their are breaks in the system. If that sounds suspiciously like a physical implementaiton of TCP/IP it\'s because it is.','2003-07-04 10:39:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4208,1,3671,'208.187.72.106','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','wretchard,\r\n\r\n You are missing a couple of implications for the truck fleet. The Army has a large number of individual specialist truck types that they need and absolutely have to have for specific missions that have very low usage rates most of the time.\r\n\r\n With things like Fuel Tankracks and Forward Repair System modules you can drop those modules for static operations and use the trucks for other missions. Or when you habe intense mobile operations you can turn have more trucks into fuelers with fuel tankracks picked up by these specialist trucks.\r\n\r\n That kind of swing capability in your truck fleet is like getting 15-20% more total lift capability right there for the same number of trucks.','2003-07-04 14:28:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4209,1,3720,'68.13.192.6','Wind Rider','wind.rider@silentrunning.tv','http://silentrunning.tv','And if it changes, we got screenshots over at SR\r\n\r\n','2003-07-04 16:05:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4210,1,3720,'68.41.42.88','Ara Rubyan','ara@rubyan.com','http://www.rubyan.com/politics','Oh. My. God. \r\n\r\nThat is TOO funny. \r\n\r\nDid you click the \"Bomb\" button?\r\n\r\nhoo-ha!\r\n\r\nThank you for the best laugh I\'ve had in days.','2003-07-04 17:19:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4211,1,3706,'67.193.227.157','Pejman Yousefzadeh','pejman64@yahoo.com','http://http;//www.pejmanesque.com','Joe, I e-mailed this to you earlier, but since you were interested in a link to a post that I wrote, it is here.','2003-07-04 17:57:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4212,1,3718,'172.201.209.164','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','I graduated from UVa in 2000 (majoring in Foreign Affairs and Studio Art). It\'s an excellent school and Charlottesville is a great town as well. I hope he likes it there! ','2003-07-05 00:03:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4213,1,3716,'66.57.84.42','bigwig','bigwig@nc.rr.com','http://silflayhraka.com','Someone should post it to Indymedia.','2003-07-05 01:18:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4214,1,3723,'69.140.137.155','David Foster','photoncourier@yahoo.com','http://photoncourier.blogspot.com','This applies on the corporate level, too. If Xerox PARC had had a few talented salesmen attached to it, it might have become a profit center for Xerox instead of a source of ideas for others...','2003-07-05 16:13:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4215,1,3727,'67.83.61.173','UziDoesIt','snwbrd77@yahoo.com','','I had the opportunity to watch Lance and the Tour go through Grenoble a few years ago and enjoyed it immensly.\r\n\r\nI\'d really love to be there - it is such a spectacle - but since I refuse to spend my money on anything French I\'ll just have to content myself with cheering him from here.\r\n\r\nAllez Lance. America Loves You!','2003-07-05 21:47:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4216,1,3725,'68.62.130.159','Robin Goodfellow','aeglos@dualboot.net','http://aeglos.blogspot.com/','Ping!','2003-07-05 22:10:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4217,1,3725,'65.169.153.225','Unlearned Hand','unlearned@unlearnedhand.com','http://www.unlearnedhand.com','I entered Harvard College 5 years ago with the world at my feet, and the smartest thing I ever did was join Army ROTC.','2003-07-05 22:53:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4218,1,3727,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Let me add my words of support for Lance Armstrong: consummate sportsman and a true gentleman. His ability to transcend pettiness in responding to the French and U.S. press on the current poor status of relations between the two countries is also, truly, admirable. An example for all.','2003-07-05 23:16:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4219,1,3714,'64.28.49.65','Michael Lonie','loniem@dnc.net','','The roots of terrorism lie not in economics but in the dysfunctional character of the Arab/Muslim political culture. David Pryce-Jones\' book \"The Closed Circle\" describes this. The long-term solution to terrorism is to change that political culture, as we changed the political cultures of Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany after WWII. The conquest of Iraq and the injection of consensual government amidst the ubiquitous tyrannies of the Middle East is the first step in this campaign. That is what Bush is doing, quite consciously. That so many seem unable to understand this strategy is evidence they are a lot less intelligent than Bush is.\r\n\r\nThe group within the Democratic Party that understood National Security affairs and worked to enhance the security of the US died with Henry Jackson back in the 1980s. Zell Miller is the last survivor. ','2003-07-05 23:23:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4220,1,3718,'198.26.125.12','drlivipr','drlivipr@msn.com','','I hope he realizes what he\'s asking for. The PJ\'s are a very specialized bunch.\r\nOne of our PJ\'s in Kuwait was a real screwball, about the most anti-military stereotype you\'d ever hope to meet. Couldn\'t keep a stripe to save his life. Consistantly ace\'d our field rescues, and taught the aeromedical doctors that came through.\r\nEvery PJ I\'ve ever been exposed to was the stand-up kind of guy that made the term \"hero\" inadequate. Best wishes to him and to you.','2003-07-06 01:02:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4221,1,3728,'24.208.118.183','Wince and Nod','winceandnod@yahoo.com','http://winceandnod.blogspot.com/','Ayn Rand agreed completely with Adam Bellow. Francisco d\'Anconia, who was the hero\'s second in command of her culminating work Atlas Shrugged is the last in a line of good nepotists. I am not a disciple of Ms. Rand, but I am afraid I agree that if I make a lot of money I want my girls to inherit it, and I also want them to deserve it. We have always had old money in this country, and we have always had new money too. I don\'t think we need an estate tax to level the playing field.','2003-07-06 07:04:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4222,1,3671,'195.69.143.178','Kevin Mickey','kevin@chinpokomon.com','http://chinpokomon.com','Speaking as someone who was heavily involved with the logistics side here in UMEC, I can say without qualification, that if we had not been able to rent local trucks we would have failed miserably. \r\n\r\nUsing LCU 2000\'s and barge ferries, we were able to move over 350 containers/day of 3rd and 4th ID ammo from ships to the staging yard on base. On good days, the army was able to move 200 out of the staging yards. On bad days they moved zero.\r\n\r\nI can\'t tell you how many times we had to stop operations because we seriously exceeded our net explosive weight restrictions. \r\n\r\nMaybe they were saving the PLS\'s and other army trucks for areas closer to the front, but I\'d guess that at least 90% of our linehaul was locally procured. The army does not have enough linehaul to accomplish it\'s mission - at least when there\'s a rapid build-up like we saw in March.\r\n\r\nRe: buying more ships, that\'s something for the Army to budget for. They already have a bunch, but I think they made a big mistake by making the ships bigger than the Navy\'s MPS ships. This seriously restricts their ability to use ports. Yeah, they work great at Long Beach, but if you don\'t have a 35\'+ dredged harbor and 800\' of pier space, you\'re not going to get into port. Bigger is not always better.','2003-07-06 09:20:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4223,1,3728,'216.254.21.24','NBarnes','nw_barnes@yahoo.com','','\r\n Wince And Nod says:\r\n\r\n > I don\'t think we need an estate tax to level the playing field.\r\n\r\n Refer to the line above where Hanson refers to, \'The increasing concentration of wealth, income, and power\'. The statistics (and good, rock solid statistics they are, if you care to look them up) do not support your assertion.','2003-07-06 09:57:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4224,1,3639,'62.39.222.247','Alain CORREA','alain.correa@nanodata.com','http://www.nanodata.com','Thanks a lot for the link and comment.\r\nRegards.','2003-07-06 12:45:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4225,1,3728,'67.75.31.116','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','Why should the state rob my children; that is wrong. \r\n','2003-07-06 12:53:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4226,1,3728,'66.140.227.29','slimedog','m_t_anderson@hotmail.com','','Nice for Adam Bellow to come clean on this issue; I\'ve always thought that our elites had their thumbs on the scales. This is really going to heat up the populist-elitist debate in American politics, and about time, too.\r\n\r\nI don\'t think an estate tax is the fix--these guys will come up with fancy tax dodges to keep their dough. Even if one of them ends up broke, he\'s so rich in connections that he\'ll get a good stock tip, a consulting job, or lots of free NPR coverage for his latest book to put him back in the chips.\r\n\r\nHow about something non-economic to level the playing field? I suggest this: No one can hold a federal office, elected or appointed, unless they have an honorable discharge from the armed forces, the Coast Guard, or the equivalent from the US Public Health Service or the Peace Corps. This won\'t cure nepotism in business or the media, but it would certainly put the brakes on connected guys buying their way into Congress, State, and Justice.','2003-07-06 13:28:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4227,1,3728,'68.76.192.70','Barry','Barry@yahoo.com','','Wouldn\'t work. See our current president for an example - he got into the TANG quite quickly when he needed to, was commissioned right out of basic training, and didn\'t show up for a year or two when that was convenient for him. He stopped taking flight physicals when they started drug testing, was taken off of flight status with no repercussions. Connections all the way. And this was in Texas, not exactly a Librul PC place. With a father who was a WWII vet.\r\n\r\nThat Heinlein Starship Troopers stuff was totally disproved by the post-WWII history of the US. Right after a large, popular and necessary war, with a high level of military service, the US set up an exemption-riddle draft system. It was even necessary for a few generations to pass, to grow that corruption; it was already there.','2003-07-06 14:37:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4228,1,3728,'68.13.192.6','Wind Rider','wind.rider@silentrunning.tv','http://silentrunning.tv','Congrats to Barry for dragging out the \'draft dodger\' meme, thus putting on display his complete ignorance of the facts of the matter, including, but not limited to: \r\n\r\nHow the Guard/Reserve structure works\r\n\r\nService commitments requirements of Guard/Reserve duty\r\n\r\nThat Bush actually EXCEEDED those requirements\r\n\r\nAnd, that at the time of sign up, the unit Bush was joining was sending PILOTS to the \'nam.\r\n\r\nGo borrow a quarter, buy a clue.','2003-07-06 14:55:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4229,1,3728,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net/','There\'s an article on MSNBC that sketches out some of the wider implications and connections related to Bellow\'s attitude.','2003-07-06 16:04:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4230,1,3728,'203.145.3.1','Eye Opener','okay@knu2.com','','I\'ll read the MS NBC link, but these li\'l window links always destroy the li\'l window, so I\'ll post first:\r\n\r\nI respect your right to have a vehement reaction to something, but I can\'t yet get a grip on what it is that you\'re vehemently arguing against. The author, Bellow, makes some acknowledgements about nepotism, and you jump from there to classism and elitism and... more... \r\n\r\nAs if you believe that middle-class fathers are not allowed to give meaningful bequeathments to their children; as if you believe that only monetary wealth, real estate estates and friend-of-a-friend connexions are valuable or valid tickets to the American experience, or human value... \r\n\r\nI\'m missing something here, and I\'m respectfully asking for clues. I\'ll keep my finger on THIS pulse for the next several months. Now, however, I\'m off to MS NBC.','2003-07-06 16:32:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4231,1,3702,'68.63.173.96','George\'s Grandson','not@realemailaddress.nu','','Balagan: take a look at http://www.samizdata.net/blog/','2003-07-06 16:43:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4232,1,3728,'138.88.5.190','gberke','blog@geraldberke.com','http://political_data.blogspot.com','Nasty word, that: nepotism.\r\nConsider its rigorous and complete absence: what would substitute for long association, connections, experience, judgment, tradition? Will we completely forgo our experience and our long term associations? Shall everyone we draw to our side in service be subject to an exam as if we know nothing of this person that we admire and trust, but thrust out for a stranger and some numbers?\r\nWe, alas, remain biological creatures. Until and unless we ran reach the dispassionate judgment of thinking machines, we shall have to live far away from digital certainty in this analog world of senses, emotions and experience.\r\nSir: I am clearly more qualified than your son, (as far as you or anyone can tell from the available data) and therefor, you must take me?\r\n','2003-07-06 16:46:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4233,1,3728,'68.164.0.242','Spoiled Rich Kid','srk@yahoo.com','','\r\nWhen I show this to Dad, he\'s going to have your ass!','2003-07-06 16:46:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4234,1,3728,'68.78.67.178','db','dbenner@uchicago.edu','','Bellow has a point on a micro level, but this should never be taken into policy. I\'m going into the same profession as my father, law, and I may well wind up practicing in the same market, but not for the same firm, partly for personal reasons and partly because of what type of law he does (zoning). I know that not embarassing him will be important to both of us, and that if he opens a door, it\'s my job to walk through it, as it were. \r\n\r\nTo say from this that legacy admissions in colleges, or tax cuts for the wealthy, or the abolition of inheritance taxes, naturally follow, is silly. A parent can give comparably more to his own child, but should not do so at the exclusion of opportunities for others. Maybe I get a minor career boost, only possible because my own talents make it not embarassing for him to help me out, but neither of us would say that now is the time to defund public schools.\r\n\r\nIt also seems to me that, while I still hold out hope of being as good a lawyer as my dad, Adam ain\'t writing \"Augie March.\" ','2003-07-06 16:53:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4235,1,3728,'66.167.91.237','Don','dondale@mindspring.com','','\"Refer to the line above where Hanson refers to, \'The increasing concentration of wealth, income, and power\'. The statistics (and good, rock solid statistics they are, if you care to look them up) do not support your assertion.\"\r\n\r\nWhere might I find these \"rock solid statistics\" providing a comprehensive empirical measurement of this thing you call \"power\" and demonstrating its increasing concentration?','2003-07-06 17:06:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4236,1,3728,'128.253.136.23','John Thacker','thacker@math.cornell.edu','','\"The decline in income and class mobility for the average American is one of the three or four most dangerous issues that we face as a nation today.\"\r\n\r\nExcept that there is NO decline in income for the average American. There also appears to be no decline in class mobility. Your statement is EXTREMELY flawed.\r\n\r\nThere is a trend towards some wealth concentration, but only in many middle class people moving to lower upper class, but it\'s nearly impossible to separate that from other factors, including: the increase in women\'s participation in the workforce, especially in high income families (leading to double income wealthy families), the increase in the divorce rate (leading to single parent families, who have low income compared to the double income families), and the increase in the college student and graduate student population. (College students and grad and professional students make less money while in college than they would if working, but more money than otherwise once they get out. This increase their personal income inequality over their lifetimes. Since different people in the population are at different stages in their life, in the aggregate this increases income inequality.) Also, the increase in divorce means that the average size of households has decreased, which means that the same income per person leads to a smaller income per household in some case. (That\'s why the income per household measure is extremely flawed.)\r\n\r\nTake a full look at the latest Census report, which has many interesting pieces of data. Page 21 especially has interesting data, showing that median income has had steady growth, and that all income groups have benefited. Fewer people are in the very poor (inflation adjusted) incomes of below $10,000. The inequality has still increased, but that is entirely explained by the massive increase in the number of people in households making $75,000 or more in 2001 constant dollars. (These are undoubtedly largely double income families.)','2003-07-06 17:08:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4237,1,3728,'209.83.111.79','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','My question for AL is this:\r\n\r\nWould you prefer an economy where the wealth of the rich grew 30 times what it is today and all the rest of us had 2.5 times what we have today; or would you prefer today\'s situation?\r\n\r\nAs Bill Whittle has said so well: do you love the poor more than you hate the rich?\r\n\r\nMilton Friedman says we could have had the economy I describe (a growth rate of 10% a year) had we not gotten those thugs with guns (the government) to steal from the rich in the name of Robin Hood economics.\r\n\r\nA growing disparity of wealth is created by a growing economy.\r\n\r\n \"Concentration of wealth is a natural result of concentration of ability, and recurs in history. The rate of concentration varies (other factors being equal) with the economic freedom permitted by morals and the law … democracy, allowing the most liberty, accelerates it.\r\n\r\nWill and Ariel Durant\r\n\r\nDo we really want to hobble the best wealth producers in the name of fairness? Not me. There are still a lot of hungry people on the planet. In fact it is why I am no longer on the left. The politics of envy no longer appeals to me. It hurts the poor too much. In fact given the outcome every where it has been tried Robin Hood economics is the most illiberal system you can devise. Worse than Kings even.\r\n','2003-07-06 17:17:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4238,1,3729,'203.145.3.1','SharpShooter','okay@knu2.com','','As long as the Left could keep America from actually DOING what was necessary in Iraq, they could present their lies and half-truths as reality, and no one could claim a more accurate representation... it was all informed opinion.\r\n\r\nBut -I LOVE IT!- America took the action steps, and in the 17-Day Battle for Baghdad portion of the War on Terror, there were SO MANY CASUALTIES on the Left, it was truly delightful!\r\n\r\nThe 1 million refugees problem, wasn\'t. The 100,000 sick humanitarian problem, wasn\'t. The tens of thousands murdered by American carpet-bombing, weren\'t. The thousands of American/Brit troops slaughtered, weren\'t. The Iraqis who would support Saddam with their lifes-blood, didn\'t. \r\n\r\nThe fedayeen who fought for Saddam, weren\'t Iraqi!\r\nThe embedded reporters saw the truth for themselves, and had to deal with it, some for the first times in their wretched professional lying lives, dammit!\r\n\r\nAnd the WMD? We\'re learning the truth. But the Left is setting itself up for another ugly pratfall by shrilling \"Liar! Deceit!\" at the top of their discredited, twisted little lungs!\r\n\r\nAnd as for retractions? clarifications? apologies? The Leftist/Liberal silence is NOT going unnoticed. They mark themselves as gutless and without courage of conviction OR sufficient integrity to deal with their own mistaken spew.\r\n\r\nAh, what a wonderful time we live in!','2003-07-06 17:18:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4239,1,3728,'66.124.230.194','Kilroy Was Here','kilroy@openspaces.net','http://kilroy.blogspot.com','John Thacker writes:\r\n\"Except there is NO decline in income for the average American.\"\r\n\r\nI believe the sentence you\'re criticizing John is not claiming a drop in income, but a drop in income mobility.\r\n\r\nAs for the claim of that class mobility has not decreased, I point you to\r\nthis article in the Regional Review (via CalPundit) at http://www.bos.frb.org/economic/nerr/rr2002/q4/issues.pdf\r\n\r\n\r\nTo bring that article home, just take a look at these graphs.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nLink to Image: http://www.calpundit.com/blogphotos/Blog_Inequality_Mobility.gif\r\n\r\nKilroy','2003-07-06 17:25:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4240,1,3728,'66.124.230.194','Kilroy Was Here','kilroy@openspaces.net','http://kilroy.blogspot.com','M. Simon quotes the Will and Ariel Durant in arguing that the primary measure of ability in a society is wealth.\r\n\r\nI believe Mr. Simon is under-valuing the role of chance. It is not guarenteed in our society that those with wealth have ability. For example, in California, we have over 20 new millionaires a year whose sole source of wealth is winning the California Lottery. Certainly, Mr. Simon wouldn\'t argue that those new millionaires are guaranteed to have more ability than doctors, journalists, teachers, etc with less wealth.\r\n\r\nSecond, when one has a greater basis of wealth to begin with, one can accumulate more wealth with less ability. For example, a person who amasses a great deal of wealth (say $10 million) from a baseline of $0 may be likely to have a good deal of ability. A person who amassess $10 million dollars from a basis of $100 million dollars has invested in Treasury bonds, which requires no ability whatsoever.\r\n\r\nUsing wealth as a measurement of ability in our society takes a very simplistic view of the role of contingency. Most of the mega-wealthy in our society either inherited that wealth (a form of birth lottery) or found themselves in the right place at the right time (for example, the bull market of the late 90s in Silicon Valley). For a more detailed view of this as it relates to the stock markets, I suggest the book Fooled By Randomness by Taleb.\r\n\r\nIn fact, if you have to find a single measurement of ability based upon money, you would be more accurate to measure a person\'s income mobility with greather positive change indicating greater ability, rather than absolute wealth. \r\n\r\nKilroy Was Here\r\n','2003-07-06 17:43:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4241,1,3728,'208.180.59.2','Phil Fraering','pgf@globalreach.net','http://thenostromo.com/pgf/weblog/','\"The French and Germans have since convinced the Turkish political class that Turkey will never be admitted to the European Union if it supports American policy in the Middle East\".
\r\n\r\nThat claim was made by Michael Leeden, and he never offered any evidence to support it. There also is tons of coverage that indirectly contradict his claim, like Turkish officials admitting that they had thought that they could prevent the war by denying the US troops a northern front.\r\n','2003-07-12 09:26:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4410,1,3719,'208.187.23.7','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Igor,\r\n\r\n Campaign promises of politicians don\'t have to make sense.\r\n\r\nKarl,\r\n\r\n The military need to expand _fast_ and the draft is how that is done. Mere recruiting with a huge troop strength target to recruit against isn\'t going to cut it.\r\n\r\nRandall,\r\n\r\n I replied to the private army idea in another thread.\r\n\r\nRalf,\r\n\r\n The resolution to let the 4th Infantry Division in failed by two votes. Neither the Islamist party nor the secular parties delivered the votes they promised the American negotiators.\r\n\r\n The French and German governments pressured the _secular politicans_ in Turkey and not the Islamist party. Which was operating from internal stimulii as statements from it after the war showed.','2003-07-12 14:38:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4411,1,3756,'12.246.71.234','Tim','tj@hotmail.com','','Curious debate here. It seems that a discussion of competing worldviews between Dems and Reps would clarify matters. I\'ll leave that for someone else. In short, while neither party has perfect ownership of truth, each does represent a largely consistent view of how things work and should work. \r\n\r\nAs this pertains to foreign policy, regardless of rump elements of the Scoop Jackson wing, Democrats by and large believe and act on the principle that the U.S. is complicit in all that ails the world, if not directly responsible for those ailments. This is especially true of the party\'s intellectual elite and most partisan activists - those who hold the party\'s decisive power in primary elections. Ultimately this view is dangerous to America, because it means the effective leadership one of the nation\'s two major parties essentially views the nation unworthy of defense. \r\n\r\nTotten and his allies are waging a fight they lost in 1968 - if not earlier. This is why no major Democrat candidate is running on a foreign policy platform of taking the war on terrorism to the enemy\'s home, unilaterally if necessary, to defend American. Democrat voters in the Iowa Caucus and in New Hampshire would punish that candidate - which is why the Democrats will nominate a candidate most Americans will not believe is committed to winning the war on terrorism and defending America.','2003-07-12 18:44:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4412,1,3756,'68.166.83.182','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://www.overpressure.com','Again, a difference between Right and Left. W will end up sending troops to Liberia for much the same reason that his father sent the troops to Somalia - after pounding Iraq into the dust, he has to prove it wasn\'t all about oil, and that people of color matter.\r\n\r\nNot that the two men are/were not moved by the moral arguments, but that in the political calculation, the builtin bias for hard heartedness and plutocracy creates a threshhold that Republicans feel they have to cross just to alleviate the fears of the Great Middle.\r\n\r\nThe Left, on the other hand, can just go for the piddly non-national interest deals, and not have to make a case for the other side - national security. Well, that was true prior to 9/11, but no longer.\r\n\r\nAnd now that this builtin advantage is gone, they are whining about it - we need to craft a message about national security. (Like the way \"Message: I care\" thudded down like a lead balloon.) \r\n\r\nThey have to be real about national security the way W is about AIDS in Africa. And if everyone else is skeptical even when you\'re sincere about it, well, welcome to our world. \r\n\r\n','2003-07-12 18:53:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4413,1,3756,'208.187.23.7','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Joe,\r\n\r\n What is left of national security Democrats don\'t make up a corporal\'s guard with respect to the Democratic party.\r\n\r\n When President Clinton came into office, the best national security Democrats were those on the Congressional staffs for the Armed Services committees and their members. They were taken enmass over the Clinton\' Defense and NSC staff without adequate replacements, and as executive level appointees, they are now too senior to go back to those staff jobs on the Hill. They have now either burrowed into the Senior Executive Service or gotten jobs as lobbiests. In either case they are lost to the Democratic Party as paid political, pro-national security, activist cadre. Democratic members of Congress on the Armed Service Committees have been hiring Republican national security experts as their staff since for lack of qualified Democrats. \r\n\r\n Outside those groups, those who are left have no institutional $upport in the Democratic party to put them in think tanks or foundations to develope ideas when out of power. The creeping PC/leftist group think in academia hiring and tenure has denied them of that hidey hole as a place to develope ideas as well. So there is no career ladder inside the Democratic Party any more for national security minded Democratic operatives to climb.\r\n\r\n At best, compared to Republican hawks perched in the Republican-funded think tanks and foundations, credentialed Liberal Hawks are third raters.\r\n\r\n Worse, none of the potential \"Liberal Hawk\" Democratic leaders are going to get professional class advise without the \"Republican taint.\" The Democratic Party\'s \"Liberal Hawk\'s\" inability to accept that 9/11/2001 made America\'s deployment of global anti-ballistic missile defenses a certainty, and communicate that to the rest of the party, is a case in point of the problem. \r\n \r\n So, Joe, where is the downside of thwacking the Democrats every time on national security in the Ann Coulter style? \r\n\r\n At this point buiding a bridge between the remaining \"Liberal Hawks\" in the Democratic Party and the Republicans will see their final exidous of the former into Republican neo-con ranks.\r\n\r\n The only way Democrats as a party are going to learn on national security is to have their face rubbed in it such that Democratic political leaders and money men create a career ladder for Democratic national security experts the way the Republicans have.\r\n ','2003-07-12 20:10:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4414,1,3756,'66.47.140.59','Sean','goodlookingui@earthlink.net','','Michael J. Totten:\r\n\r\nI agree with most of your points. Hawkish Democrats do exist. Liebermann not only supported the President\'s resolution, he fought Sen. Levin\'s effort to condition use of force on UN approval. Edwards and Gephardt also supported the use of force resolution and have demonstrated admirable backbone in sticking to their guns before hostile Democratic Primary crowd (especially in Iowa, which is so dovish even the REPUBLICAN congressmen opposed the Iraq war).\r\n\r\nThe problem I see for the Democrats is that, although Liebermann isn\'t the only Democrat who favored the use of force resolution and continue to support that position, he is the only one who has consistently demonstrated an interest in foreign policy in the years prior to 9/11. \r\n\r\nEdwards and Gephardt both appear to recognize that it is essential for a Democratic candidate to demonstrate his or her committment to America\'s security. However, neither Edwards or Gephardt really demonstrated any interest in national security prior to 9/11. Edwards is STILL quite green, and Gephardt has a long record of falling in line with his party\'s \"Ostritch\" wing. I\'m not questioning their committment to National Security now, but they have a lot of catching up to do.\r\n\r\nBTW: I realize Bush\'s resume was slim on National Security prior to his election as well. However, National Security wasn\'t a defining issue in the 2000 election, and since then he has articulated the \"Bush Doctrine\" for combatting terrorism. Liebermann has gone a long way towards coming up with a \"Liebermann Doctrine\" -- which looks a lot like the \"Bush Doctrine\", except that he promises to try harder to get international concensus behind military action (before, um, going in anyway), and he promises to get tougher with Saudi Arabia. In order to be credible alternatives, Edwards and Gephardt need to do the same.\r\n\r\nAs for Kerry -- forget it. He\'s showing his true (ie: calculating peacenik) colors right now. He\'s nothing but Howard Dean or Dennis Kucinich without the integrity.\r\n','2003-07-12 21:22:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4415,1,3752,'66.47.140.59','Sean','goodlookingui@earthlink.net','','Another justification for intervening in Liberia:\r\n\r\nThe US-led war in Iraq damaged US\'s diplomatic standing in many countries in the world. The war was still justified in my opinion, and the damage was caused more by the craven opportunism of key allies than American bellicosity, but the diplomatic rift remains. Placing a relatively small (by US standards) number of troops in this region under UN command is a sort of fig leaf that doesn\'t force the US to compromise its security interests in Iraq (including our very reasonable desire to punish France by shutting them out of the postwar reconstruction).','2003-07-12 21:45:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4416,1,3721,'4.60.26.69','Samuel Tai','taiss@gte.net','','This reminds me of an Old Testament passages:\r\n\r\nJob 1:21 \r\nNaked came I out of my mother\'s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-12 23:23:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4417,1,3577,'67.75.198.12','marcus Huiseman','manlyhose007@sbcglobal.net','http://groups. yahoo.com/group/pantyhosefor pansies/','Gay male, 38, looking for Men with BIG BUTTS w/PANTYHOSE- TAN COLORED, 18-45 YEARS OF AGE\r\n\r\nFOR REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\r\n','2003-07-12 23:26:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4418,1,3756,'208.187.23.7','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Tim said:\r\n\r\n>This is why no major Democrat candidate is \r\n>running on a foreign policy platform of taking \r\n>the war on terrorism to the enemy\'s home, \r\n>unilaterally if necessary, to defend American.\r\n\r\nYep. This is why Democrats are dead and damned.\r\n\r\nTom Holsinger mentioned once before the Federalist Hartford convention during the War of 1812 as a parallel to the predicament that Democrats are facing for the 2004 convention during the War on Terrorism.\r\n\r\nThe Federalists debated seccession because of the effects the anti-British tariffs and the British blockade were having on New England. \r\n\r\nThe Federalists after much debate, voted down seccession.\r\n\r\nThe problem for them as a party is every other American took that to mean that the Federalists were not on the same side as every other American and the Federalists quickly faded from history.\r\n\r\nThe Democrats have a very small window of time to get a candidate with the message \"Lets kill terrorists where they live because they are evil bastards who want to kill us\" or they will join the Federalists.\r\n\r\nAnd the Democrats are not going to do it.\r\n\r\nWe are going to see a Democratic Boston convention where the protestors outside will have people on the inside agreeing with them and no one inside willing to publically call the lot of them American traitors.\r\n\r\nThen you will see the Republican convention in NY City just prior to the 9/11 anniversary with flag waving patriotism and in your face confrontations between Republican activistss and anti-war protestors with the former calling the latter traitors on national TV.\r\n\r\nA lot can happen between now and Nov 2004, but that particular turn of events looks more and more set in stone.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-13 00:00:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4419,1,3577,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Given that the URL doesn\'t work and the comment is on topic in a bent sort of way, I think I\'m going to leave this one up just for the amusement value.','2003-07-13 00:47:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4420,1,3719,'192.45.72.26','Karl Gallagher','karl.gallagher@ngc.com','','Trent, I think a serious campaign to ask 18-yo\'s to enlist, including urging parents/uncles/girlfriends to pressure the boys to sign up, would produce a dramatic increase in enlistments. So far Bush has told people wanting to support the war to go shopping, that\'s not going to get guys to the recruiting office. Imposing a draft OTOH would probably put all increases in troop strength on hold past the 2004 election has the arguments, votes, and court challenges got sorted out. And then we\'d get cranky conscripts instead of enthusiastic volunteers, which is a big difference.','2003-07-13 00:56:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4421,1,3756,'63.206.171.37','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','The Democrats\' problem here is that the Party speaks with just one voice, and it is the wrong voice. The so-called Democratic hawks aren\'t picking fights with their party\'s loony left, which means the latter have no public opposition inside the Democratic Party.\r\n\r\nThe reason for this is that the Democrats lack non-loony leaders, other than Ted Kennedy who picks his fights carefully (and this isn\'t one of them), willing to fight for what they believe in. Moynihan is dead and no one has replaced him. Everyone else is only in it for personal advantage - none have any issues bigger than themselves.\r\n\r\nDemocratic hawks died or left when Senator John Glenn wouldn\'t oppose the \"nuclear freeze\" concept in 1984, let alone attack it. I was one who left.\r\n\r\nAnd I did the same thing to the California GOP in 1968, for Republicans who wanted to vote against the Vietnam War and couldn\'t in the 1968 GOP presidential primary because then Governor Reagan ran alone as a favorite son. I got the anti-war Republicans in my county (Santa Cruz - I was then a freshman at UC Santa Cruz) to change their registration to Democrat to vote for Eugene McCarthy. Almost 10% of all the Republicans in the county switched in a month, giving Santa Cruz County its first Democratic majority in a long time and McCarthy his second biggest county majority in the California Democratic Presidential primary.\r\n\r\nHaving a big tent is important in politics. It lets people express themselves inside the party on issues important to them. If they can\'t, they\'ll walk. I did in 1987, as did thousands of Santa Cruz Republicans the other way in 1968.\r\n\r\nBut there is no way for Democrats who believe in their country to do so through the Democratic Party these days, and that has been true for almost a generation.\r\n\r\nOnly it is a defining issue right now, and the Democratic Party is on the wrong side. Tough for them. The Federalists are waiting.','2003-07-13 01:36:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4422,1,3751,'172.141.142.132','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','do we have any more information on the precise type of blocking that is taking place? \r\n\r\nit could help with figuring out solutions against it. ','2003-07-13 01:51:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4423,1,3756,'63.206.171.37','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','Post-script:\r\n\r\nDemocratic hawks don\'t need to win, but they do need to fight and, in particular, they need a presidential candidate who fights for them at the convention. The latter is even more important for the party\'s long-term interests, and not merely for the interests of Democratic hawks.\r\n\r\nIMO the Democratic Party _must_ have a visible hawk faction at the Boston Convention if the party is to have a future. If its Boston Convention is as one-sided concerning the war on terror issue as most of us think it will be, IMO the party has a significant and growing chance of dying like the Federalists, and for the same reason - the taint of treason.','2003-07-13 02:02:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4424,1,3719,'172.141.142.132','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','\"Also, just because of time it would take to do recruitment and training an appropriation to expand the size of the military would take two or three years to produce more divisions that can actually be fielded. Well, what to do about the deficiency now?\"\r\n\r\nrandall if you think a draft can be put into effect in a shorter time frame you are delusional. to begin with the current administration is against a reinstatement of the draft. how precisely do you propose getting them to change their mind, or ramming it past them, within the time frame you are talking about? \r\n\r\nadd to that the reality of the 2004 campaign season being in full swing... do you really think karl rove would go anywhere near a draft? can you say DEAN 2004? it would be an administration nightmare. maybe this draft talk is just an anti-war democrat plot to make bush lose office. heh. \r\n\r\n***the return of the draft would be about the only thing that can at this point get me to NOT vote for bush***\r\n\r\nthinking about the draft as a solution for a military problem is all fine and good, but it is nothing more than speculation. for it to become a reality you must think of the draft in a *political* context. \r\n\r\nwhat i would really like to see is all these people that would like the draft in place to solve our military problems, to think for a moment about what other solutions they can come up with. the reality is that a draft is not an immediate option... so what else can you think of?','2003-07-13 02:24:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4425,1,3756,'165.121.176.101','flinch','jcast144@boinkers.mindspring.com','','The worst part of the impending Democratic foreign policy implosion is this: it\'s entirely avoidable.\r\n\r\nThere\'s a small but vocal segment of the Democratic party that believes that the Republicans are going to send homosexuals to the gulag, eliminate women\'s rights, and impose a theocratic state.\r\n\r\nWhen faced with an Islamist movement that actually advocates these things (and worse), the reflexive Democratic response is to blame George W. Bush, or opine about \"how we deserved it.\"\r\n\r\nI\'m not a Democrat, but I can build a short argument for the WoT on equal rights, economic opportunity, and tolerance. I\'m pretty sure that Michael Totten and Armed Liberal have built far stronger platforms that dovetail well with traditional Democratic values, and justify a more active foreign policy.\r\n\r\nThe party doesn\'t want to listen, and they\'re going to take a bad situation and turn it into a debacle. \r\n\r\nPain is a good teacher. Right now, the Democrats are about to experience a big, heaping spoonful of it.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-07-13 02:53:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4426,1,3719,'12.211.19.8','Robert','rmonical@restek.com','','Chill out dude!!!!!!!\r\n\r\nIt is not the Army\'s job to pacify Iraq. It is the Iraqi\'s job. The Army merely has to hold things together long enough for the de-Baathified Iraqi police and military to take over.\r\n\r\nAs usual, the control freaks in the Army are trying to do too much and not letting the Iraqi\'s do enough. \r\n\r\nRemember that 2/3 of Iraq is not a serious problem. \r\n\r\nThe Iraqi\'s can take over the job faster than we can expand the Army to do it. I do believe we need a larger Army, just not for Iraq.\r\n\r\nDon\'t foprget the 3 Marine Divisions that are mostly in strategic reserve. They now constitue 30% of our ground force strength.','2003-07-13 05:54:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4427,1,3721,'216.175.85.123','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Amen. Also, it can\'t escape notice among those learned in the various religions of the world (of which I count myself a junior member at best) that not only is the message very Zen, but that the poem itself is almost an extended Zen koan--it\'s almost a riddle.\r\n\r\nJoe, the weekly Shabbat Shalom, and especially your corner on Sufi wisdom, is an excellent example of the diversity here at WoC that gives \"diversity\" a damn good name. Thanks.','2003-07-13 05:54:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4428,1,3721,'206.190.18.183','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The Sufi is not entirely correct. In many cases I can make the electrons go where I want them to go.','2003-07-13 08:16:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4429,1,3721,'66.32.180.3','clue','clue@bcke.com','','How can you be sure that it\'s not simply where they intended to go in the first place?','2003-07-13 09:21:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4430,1,3755,'66.32.180.3','clue','clue@bcke.com','','How stupid, even diplomatically, do you have to be to ask this question:\r\n\r\n\"... Would it be of interest to the Americans to know that Saddam had an ongoing relationship with Osama bin Laden?\"\r\n\r\nWell, no, we haven\'t really thought much about that, but thanks...\r\n\r\nReally, the only conceivable reason that Hussein and bin Laden would be any less than mortal (if preoccupied) enemies would be that, in fact, these people are really motivated because they (hate freedom*). Such a kindergarten view of the world, while reassuring to the intellectually feeble, fails (often tragically) to appreciate the actual motivations of our enemies.\r\n\r\nThe only plausible incentive for Hussein to part with chemical or biological weapons would have been significant amounts of cash, amounts so significant that they would offset the high risk of said WMD being used by Islamic terrorists against his own secular regime, thereby picking a destabilized Iraq rather than Saudi Arabia or Iran as the first domino in the plan for the reestablisment of the Islamic empire.','2003-07-13 09:35:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4431,1,3755,'68.21.245.193','Michael Ubaldi','fc@figureconcord.com','http://www.figureconcord.com/ublog/','Intellectually feeble, eh? Unfortunately, Clue, authoritarians of all stripes follow one credo above all other ancillary beliefs like, say, National Socialism, Communism, Pan-Arabism or Islamist fascism: the rule of force. Strongmen will ally with strongmen whenever their otherwise self-exclusory goals of selfish conquest coincide in a temporary, mutual challenge.\r\n\r\nHistory is replete with such instances - indeed, most nations being monarchical dictatorships - which does tend to describe the nature of your factual basis. Under the self-described non-\"kindergarten\" worldview for modern times, for instance, the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was never made. \r\n\r\nExcellent research has been done to show that Communist Moscow was a resource and training center for numerous terrorist groups - a model that would certainly appeal to Hussein, whether he knew of it or not. \r\n\r\nMost pertinent, al Qaeda is notably and reliably ecumenical.','2003-07-13 14:02:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4432,1,3755,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Clue, there\'s also such a thing as cultural patterns. Asking the judge the question this way could easily be a form of politeness, even though the answer is known. Consider all the possibilities before going off like that.\r\n\r\nWhat has no evidence to back it is the kindergaten notion that al-Qaeda could never cooperate with a secular regime, without anything in Islamic thought, its own pronouncements, or more important its own correspopnding behaviour to back it up. Pakistan\'s regime is a lot less than Islamic, but working with the ISI has never seemed to present much difficulty.','2003-07-13 16:26:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4433,1,3760,'24.148.46.146','Kenneth G. Cavness','kenn@cavness.org','http://www.cavness.org/cogicophony/','At what point will Arab nations and populations in the region cease to be seethingly ambivalent about American interventionalism in the area and actually be angry enough to publicly denounce and/or attack American forces? We\'ve attacked Iraq and Afghanistan; attacking Iran will definitely make it look like we\'re trying to take over the Arab world one nation at a time.\r\n\r\nI\'m not saying we should never have attacked Iraq, or that we should never attack Iran; I\'m saying that overtly attacking Iran less than three months after we\'ve attacked Iraq could possibly cause us far more trouble than it could help the Iranian people.','2003-07-13 16:35:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4434,1,3760,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Trent, you\'re right that there\'s a clock here, and considerations are at play that trump the wish to see Iran\'s democracy develop from within. I have no idea what possessed Rafsanjani to issue the threats he did, buit there\'s a Russian saying that \"once a word is out of your mouth, you cannot swallow it again.\" Even without 9/11, the moment he said those things he made ending Iran\'s nuclear program a top priority for any sensible international players. If the Iranian regime won\'t leave and won\'t bend, then there\'s only one option left and that\'s force. That may even be what the mullahs hope for, but it can\'t be helped.\r\n\r\nAt the same time, ground invasion is not the only military option. It all comes down to the quality of intelligence - is it good enough, and are the key locations vulnerable to air strikes and such? Retaliation isn\'t much of a concern; given that the Iranians\' ability to undertake offensive operations is limited, the NG heavy divisions may not be necessary. \r\n\r\nAs you pointed out in your \"Ground Troop Shortage\" article, however, this activation may be justified for other reasons. It\'s all a military and intelligence judgment. As is the state of Iran\'s nuclear program. But the need to make some hard decisions is certain, even with incomplete information.\r\n\r\nThis is not a situation where the USA can afford to be wrong.','2003-07-13 16:41:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4435,1,3761,'24.148.89.69','Steve Antler','santler@roosevelt.edu','http://.econpundit.blogspot.com','Hi, and thanks -- but we\'re EconoPundit not Econoblog (also worthy, but not me)!\r\n\r\nSteve Antler\r\nEconoPundit','2003-07-13 18:06:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4436,1,3755,'216.162.118.91','Joel Eissenberg','flylab1@yahoo.com','','Here\'s what I don\'t understand:\r\n\r\n1. Why Glen Reynolds, the self-appointed scourge of the NY Times, would credit a list published in a newspaper run by Uday Hussein?\r\n\r\n2. Why would Reynolds report the article by Merritt and not the other article in the same newspaper which renders the whole meaning of the list gibberish?','2003-07-13 18:08:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4437,1,3760,'4.60.26.69','Samuel Tai','taiss@gte.net','','Let\'s be very sure. Ground invasion will take too much time to get the forces in place. We need to deal an overwhelming nuclear blow to Iran now. We wouldn\'t need to destroy the whole country. Tehran, and the nuclear facilities alone would both remove the nuclear threat and the command and control.\r\n\r\nThis will really make the Arab world sit up and take notice. It will also put North Korea on notice.','2003-07-13 18:16:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4438,1,3760,'208.187.73.12','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Joe,\r\n\r\n The problem isn\'t the WMD, it is the regime behind them. Irrational regimes become more irrational under pressure. And there is a great deal of pressure in Iran right now even if we do nothing.\r\n\r\n If we are going to strike the Iranian Mullahocracy, then the blow must be mortal and that blow must be in the next three years, before the Iranians develope a nuclear tipped IRBM.\r\n\r\n The only way to change the regime is on the ground with troops.\r\n\r\n The only other alternative to kill the regime is with the genocidal use of nukes. I want to avoid doing that in the war on Terrorism until _all the other options_ have been tried first.\r\n\r\n Those who try and avoid a conventional ground war to overthrow the Mullah\'s make a nuclear war with them inevitable. That is the logic of nuclear preemption when you are dealing with an irrational regime.\r\n ','2003-07-13 18:32:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4439,1,3760,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','The problem is the regime AND the WMDs. Britain has the WMDs. No problem. An Iranian regime with no nuclear program? Just wait for the revolution. It\'s both, together, at once.\r\n\r\nIF you believe the regime is destined to lose its struggle with the people eventually, AND you believe that there are ways short of invasion to derail their niuclear program for a while, then those measures are an acceptable response that buys time for the revolution. \r\n\r\nIf one believes that the Iranian regime can maintain itself indefinitely, however, then yes, invasion or annihilation are the only serious options left after Rafsanjani\'s threats (the outcome of which would be a big heap of radioactive glass where the Arab world, Iran, and Israel used to be).\r\n\r\nObviously, my vote in that dark scenario would be for either invasion or a strong program of armed subversion (basically guerilla war or coup) backed by the threat and real possibility of full scale invasion.\r\n\r\nGiven that I do believe the Iranian regime will lose its fight with its own people, however, and that its decline is terminal, the question then hinges on: do we have the intelligence and the capability to put Iran\'s nuclear program back to square one without using nukes?','2003-07-13 19:30:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4440,1,3760,'4.42.48.81','Rand Simberg','winds@interglobal.org','http://www.interglobal.org/weblog','Kenneth--\r\n\r\nIran is part of the Arab world?\r\n\r\nWho knew?','2003-07-13 20:22:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4441,1,3760,'68.21.245.193','Michael Ubaldi','fc@figureconcord.com','http://www.figureconcord.com/ublog/','I agree with Trent. \r\n\r\nAs wonderful as a homegrown rebellion - completely instigated, carried out and completed by Iranian civilians and any allies they can scrounge - would be, we may begin to see the prospect fading away into wishful thinking. \r\n\r\nIn that respect, I fear that modernity has finally galvanized any and all established dictatorships into having the ability to indefinitely quell dissent with globally acquired resources and technological advantages. Perhaps we didn\'t learn the right lessons from Tiananmen.\r\n\r\nI\'ve said before: no judicious man wants war; but then, no judicious man will forego the option when more lives will be lost as a consequence of not taking up arms.','2003-07-13 20:22:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4442,1,3760,'208.187.73.12','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Joe,\r\n\r\n As a terrorist supporting regime that has run attacks on the USA for decades, Iran is on the list. As a state getting both IRBMs and WMD (nukes, bugs and gas) it is in the \"Axis of Evil.\"\r\n\r\n Tyrannies survive unless they are killed or there is a collapse of will at the center. The Mullahs have proven they have the will to maintain power, at least for a little while longer.\r\n\r\n The timing of our action against them is predicated upon thier _capabilities_ and not their _intent_ because they are irrational to begin with by definition. That they might fall eventually is irrelevant beside their capability to pass WMD to terrorists going after us.\r\n\r\n The failure of the July 9th movement means we don\'t have the luxuary to wait for events. We must act and to act decisively later means we have to activate the National Guard heavy divisions now.','2003-07-13 20:23:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4443,1,3755,'68.21.245.193','Michael Ubaldi','fc@figureconcord.com','http://www.figureconcord.com/ublog/','Well, Eissenberg, the point, if verified, was that the publication was an inciminating mistake. Villains, out of their gob or not, can benefit those fighting them by being downright stupid. Hell, if it weren\'t for Hitler and his sleeping late, Normandy might have turned out quite differently. \r\n\r\nThe second article is a grain of salt, not a refutation.','2003-07-13 20:32:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4444,1,3760,'172.141.142.132','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','trent, a ground invasion takes time. it may be needed at some point, but it would take such a long amount of time to line up the political will and the military preparations that it is not the immediate solution you make it out to be. i understand your desperate desire to have a stronger military position than we do, but our troops are not just pieces on a game board. our actions have implications for our troops, our domestic politics, and our international strategy. attacking iraq against \"international opinion\" was a good thing. it shook things up. attacking iran may indeed be needed, but we cannot do it yet. there is too much strain, too much war fatigue at risk. what exactly makes you think the administration could even succeed at getting authorization for a ground war against iran so soon after the battle over iraq? \r\n\r\nof course the iranian people need more support than just words, but lets not overextend ourself and believe we are capable of things that we are not. ','2003-07-13 20:34:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4445,1,3760,'172.141.142.132','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','i really should be a little more awake before i comment. otherwise i would have noticed that you yourself gave the perfect words for why we cannot yet attack iran: \r\n\r\n \"The timing of our action against them is predicated upon thier _capabilities_ and not their _intent_\"\r\n\r\nyou just got one thing wrong. \r\n\r\nthe timing of our action against them is predicated upon *our* capabilities and not only *our* intent. ','2003-07-13 20:39:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4446,1,3760,'24.148.46.146','Kenneth G. Cavness','kenn@cavness.org','http://www.cavness.org/cogicophony/','Rand: Perhaps not, but do you not think that the Arabic world identifies more with Iran than, say, Bolivia?\r\n\r\nAlso: damn, but that was annoyingly nitpicky.','2003-07-13 20:46:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4447,1,3765,'24.247.144.249','Miguel','miguel@centellas.org','http://www.centellas.org/miguel','Of course, the Indymedia.org types will say: \"What does this have to do w/ bin Laden?\"\r\n\r\nTo which a rational person should respond: \"Isn\'t it obvious?\"','2003-07-13 22:02:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4448,1,3760,'68.46.88.44','Eric','tsrec@yahoo.com','','1. Only 2% of Iran\'s population is Arab. Most Arabs, whether Islamist or secular, supported Saddam during the Iran-Iraq war, and most Iranians have contempt for Arabs, at least on a collective basis.\r\n\r\n2. An invasion isn\'t needed to take out the nuke facilities. Being a bit less totalitarian than North Korea, we\'ve already managed to ascertain where they are in Iran. A few dozen GPS-guided cruise missles would be more than enough.\r\n\r\n3. Militarily speaking, I hope you realize all the huge differences between Iran and Iraq. Iran\'s population is 66 million, compared with Iraq\'s $23 million. Their per capita GDP is much higher, and they do have a bit of an industrial base. Their military, unlike Saddam\'s, hasn\'t been crippled by sanctions, and they\'ve been able to buy a lot of stuff from Russia and China. And we\'re just about certain that they have large stocks of biological and chemical weapons on hand.\r\n\r\nI think the mullahs will still be gone within a few years, and at least by the end of the decade. The real problem with the student uprising wasn\'t the mullahs\' brutality; it was the existence of a \"silent majority\" in Iran that isn\'t yet willing to shed blood, or even go on strike, in the name of regime change. It was only a couple of years ago that they were throwing their weight behind Khatami, and you just don\'t move from placing hope in the system to violently removing the system that fast.\r\n\r\nThe fact that the regime has had to hire Arab and Afghan thugs, that the police often restrained the Basijis, and that everyone and their sister is willing to talk candidly about their hatred of the regime shows that the mullahs\' grip on power is still nowhere as strong as Saddam\'s was. The Chinese example also doesn\'t apply because the mullahs still haven\'t done anything on par with Tianamen Square, and because, since 1978, China had been seeing a gradual economic revolution that made large swaths of the public at least somewhat satisfied with the status quo. Iranians, by contrast, are more dissatisfied than ever with the mullahs.\r\n\r\nMuch of that silent majority will eventually come around in Iran, and when it does, the regime is doomed. It just looks like we\'ll have to wait a while. For now, our best bet is to provide moral and financial support to the opposition, do a cruise missle strike on the nuke facilities, and brace for the nationalist public opinion backlash that will come from the latter move.','2003-07-13 22:54:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4449,1,3760,'68.21.245.193','Michael Ubaldi','fc@figureconcord.com','http://www.figureconcord.com/ublog/','Eric, your scenario would certainly be the best of all futures. But how long would it take, we\'d have to wonder; in the meantime, the mullahs would be free to coordinate terrorist activities. Strikes against atomic abilities and not the establishment itself might delay a nuclear standoff but wouldn\'t necessarily introduce any pause into covert operations from Tehran. Again, I\'d have to agree with Trent that it\'s not the weapons so much as it is the regime. (I wouldn\'t mind a pro-Western, pluralist, stably democratic Iran [an ally] with nukes at all.)\r\n\r\nLike both the Ba\'athists and al Qaeda, the cockroach doesn\'t stop twitching until it\'s completely dead.','2003-07-13 23:39:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4450,1,3755,'216.162.118.91','Joel Eissenberg','flylab1@yahoo.com','','Oh, I got the point of the article. I just don\'t see why a list published by Uday Hussein\'s newspaper has any credibility in the first place. The assumption here appears to be that the government\'s effort to recover/destroy the newspaper was specifically in order to cover up an alleged connection to Osama bin Laden. \r\n\r\nI guess the null hypothesis on this thread (and for Instapundit) is that we believe any theory that supports the Hussein/Osama connection,\r\nregardless of its provenance, credibility or plausibility, until it is disproven?\r\n\r\n','2003-07-13 23:49:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4451,1,3760,'68.165.43.76','E. Nough','e.nough@NOSPAM.mail.com','http://thinkingmeat.blogspot.com','With regard to the re-revolution, does anyone have any idea what the are actual positions of the would-be revolutionaries? Is there any reason to believe that they would be less hostile to U.S. interests in the region, to say nothing of Israel? What intellectual basis is there for this revolution -- are its advocates pro-Westernization, pro-U.S., pro-religious freedom? Or are they looking to \"maintain their Islamic identity,\" albeit allowing women to wear make-up? Is the aim of the revolution to make Iran more like eastern Europe, or Egypt?\r\n\r\nI\'m just saying, even if the revolution succeds, and anti-mullah forces take over, I rather doubt they\'d be keen on letting go of the nuclear program, what with Pakistan, India, China, Israel, and their new neighbor, the United States, all being nuclear powers. Yet I see precious little in the rhetoric of the students and their supporters that would lead me to breathe easy at the idea of nuclear-tipped ICBMs under their control. Am I missing something?','2003-07-13 23:59:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4452,1,3734,'82.36.25.235','Paul','exile000@hotmail.com','','When Bellow published an article in a similar vein, this is what I wrote to the Sunday Times:\r\n\r\nDear Sir, \r\nIn his June 29th article, Adam Bellow appears to have rested his personal demons regarding the good fortune bequeathed him by his father. Bravo! It is always fun to see beneficiaries of nepotism dress it up as meritocracy hard at work. It\'s good that he exposes nepotism as rife across professions too - personal observation would lead me to include the House of Commons, management consultancies and evidently erm ... some newsdesks in the bracket of being \"vociferously meritocratic\" in this new area of \"meritocratic nepotism\". As an economist by education, it is my naiive understanding that nepotism is a defensive reaction by siblings/associates to the unforgiving realities of a true meritocracy - namely that sons, daughters and friends of talented people are often not as able as their patrons to choose and apply career direction relative to their peers. I see now that Tony\'s Surprisingly Competent Cronies, Enron-Linked-Only-By-Association Management Consultancies, the Maxwell Dynasty and Messers Bellow may be pointing the way forward for the ambitious (but misapplied) among us! \r\n\r\nHowever, as a \"working man\", nepotism unfortunately has the same place in my life as dubbed polylingual TV ads and ringtone experimentation in public - unavoidable but damaging phenomena. I\'m sure that in time, his own siblings will hear fantastic stories of a once thriving old boys \"meritocratic\" network predating Europe called \"The City of London\", yet be all the more attentive and so much more sympathetic to his views on nepotism. \r\n\r\nPaul Owen\r\nSolihull','2003-07-14 00:14:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4453,1,3760,'63.183.201.229','Harry','ak6c@earthlink.net','','\"Rand: Perhaps not, but do you not think that the Arabic world identifies more with Iran than, say, Bolivia?\r\n\r\n\"Also: damn, but that was annoyingly nitpicky.\"\r\n\r\nIt wasn\'t nitpicky at all; it was an error on par with, for example, saying that Ontario is an American state instead of a Canadian province.\r\n\r\nIn other words, it\'s the sort of mistake that makes you wonder whether the person making it has a clue in hell what they\'re talking about. And then you compounded your mistake with lame, self-pitying whine instead of owning up to it.','2003-07-14 01:11:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4454,1,3760,'24.148.46.146','Kenneth G. Cavness','kenn@cavness.org','http://www.cavness.org/cogicophony/','No, Harry, it neatly avoids the issue I brought up entirely in favor of a nitpick-fest.\r\n\r\nBut fine. I\'ll get my answers from someone who actually cares.','2003-07-14 02:01:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4455,1,3760,'172.141.142.132','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','eric is about as right as anyone in his assessment, but micheal brings up the central point. the question we all have to ask is just when action on our part would be needed. when exactly are we talking about? how long can we stand back and hope for an internal iranian revolution..?\r\n\r\ni think we have more time than trent and others are suggesting, but that still doesnt mean we have very much. \r\n\r\nalso the suggestion by trent and others that we cannot afford to leave the regime in place for even a second based on their continued support of terrorism is not one that is based in anything other than principle. there are many sources of terrorism in the world, and yes we should attack each and every one of them in their own way at their own time. but we cannot just do it all at once no matter how much we may want to. we must proceed intelligently and not only act on what our fears demand. ','2003-07-14 02:03:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4456,1,3765,'24.90.251.209','someone','no@one.no','','I guess the IRA wants to cement their status as a \"terrorist organization of global reach\".\r\n\r\nHow stupid could they be?','2003-07-14 02:40:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4457,1,3760,'24.148.46.146','Kenneth G. Cavness','kenn@cavness.org','http://www.cavness.org/cogicophony/','A friend has politely pointed out to me (since I asked him, after getting pretty damn pissed off at Harry) that it would be the Muslim world, and not the Arab world, that would react. So, if you were to replace any word \"Arab\" in my original request with \"Muslim\", can someone please answer my question? \r\n\r\nEric answered it in terms of the Iran/Iraq war, but perhaps the prevailing attitude has changed in the past few years. This is the question I am posing.','2003-07-14 02:47:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4458,1,3765,'24.52.174.246','Ray','ray@princeton.edu','http://campuscgi.princeton.edu/~ray/weblog/','Someone: We mustn\'t forget that, aside from the political reasons people join terrorist groups, there are also more psychological ones. Some people enjoy being a law unto themselves, wielding the power of death over others, and delight in destruction and terror for their own sake. Whether they call themselves freedom fighters, jihadis, or revolutionaries, the essence of this subgroup is the same: they are sick, demented killers who need to be removed from the world. ','2003-07-14 03:41:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4459,1,3765,'82.36.194.174','Anthony','coxar@hotmail.com','http://www.blacktriangle.org','Do you remember the days when people who systematically used violence for political ends where called terrorists and the term dissident was used for people like *Andrei Sakharov*\r\n\r\n','2003-07-14 07:08:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4460,1,3760,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Kenneth: isn\'t this the old \"Arab street\" argument? Based on the experiences of the past few years, I\'m not sure the \"Muslim street\" HAS a boiling point. Indeed, experience is showing us that it seems to go very quiet after vigorous action, and get louder the more we hesitate. \r\n\r\nCome to think of it, this is normal when you couple a supremacist ideology, a culture with no hard dividing line between war and peace, and acknowledged military weakness.','2003-07-14 11:12:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4461,1,3760,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Eric states my views well, and Balagan also has some good points.\r\n\r\nAs for Iran\'s continued support of terrorism and covert action in Iraq, I take that as a given. Question is, what\'s the best response to that given the USA\'s capabilities and commitments? \r\n\r\nFull scale invasion would be massively taxing, requiring a full war mobilization and very possibly withdrawal of American commitments in Korea. On the other hand, IF the USA can put Iran\'s nuke program back to square 1 with precision bombing, they can then use a combination of cutting their regional bridges to Syria, covert action in return, and developing intelligence to nail the mullah\'s key functionaries and agents in the aftermath of the revolution. Not to mention, provoking and supporting said revolution. Not ideal, but tit-for-tat in an imperfect world and probably effective in the medium term.\r\n\r\nFinally, E. Nough raises some excellent questions worth answering.\r\n\r\nIt\'s my personal belief that Iran\'s nuclear program will continue at some level under a new regime. Their own long history as an Empire will make them want to be a player on par with regional neighbours Pakistan & India, and it also offers them important leverage in their jousts with Russia over influence and pipeline politics in Central Asia. I\'d be willing to bet on a goodly measure of public support, too, and the level of Iran\'s oil reserves means the odds aren\'t good for a successful sanctions regime aimed at changing that public calculus (the French would break it, for starters). \r\n\r\nGiven that, will this be a quiet program of research around the edges, or full-scale development of atomic bombs? The key variables as I see them are how [1] willing the USA is to destroy such facilities and continue showdowns with a new Iranian regime over the issue, [2] how good the USA\'s intelligence on these matters is and remains, and [3] how Europe and Russia react to being within IRBM range.\r\n\r\nBottom line: we may have options short of full-scale invasion to derail Iran\'s program right now; but I see nukes in Iran as a long term issue.','2003-07-14 11:44:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4462,1,3765,'66.32.185.239','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Anthony,\r\n\r\nNot that it doesn\'t happen all the time (\"militants\"?), but in this particular case I believe that he\'s described as an \"IRA dissident\" because he split from the IRA to the \"Real IRA\".\r\n\r\nIt (the Observer) said he was a former IRA member who had switched his allegiance to the so-called Real IRA, which split from the IRA in protest over its 1997 cease-fire.\r\n\r\nBut then again...\r\n\r\nFor years, the IRA had links with Palestinian militant groups, and Irish paramilitaries have recently been accused of training violent groups abroad in exchange for funds. Three IRA-linked Irishmen are currently on trial in Colombia, accused of training Marxist rebels in terrorist techniques.\r\n\r\nApparently individuals and groups are not terrorists, only their techniques.','2003-07-14 14:25:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4463,1,3765,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Good catch, clue.','2003-07-14 14:39:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4464,1,3760,'66.32.185.239','clue','clue@bcke.com','','Let\'s get back to graph 1:\r\n\r\n...It will take a ground invasion to deal to death the Iranian Mullahocracy, its terrorist infrastructure and its WMD programs.\r\n\r\nCould the U.S. invade Iran and destroy the regime, thereby ending the regime\'s support for terrorists and ending it\'s WMD program? Better minds than mine seem to think so.\r\n\r\nBut then what?\r\n\r\nIs there any kind of suggestion at all that American forces marching through Tehran would be welcomed more than they have been in Baghdad? About the same? What about the possibility, given the history of U.S. intervention in Iran, that the latter-day revolutionaries are not interested in having one regime they didn\'t choose replaced with another regime they didn\'t choose? How would the currently-silent majority react?\r\n\r\nThe question to Trent is, if you\'re going to propose a war, how to you propose to win the peace? How do you ensure that the new Iran doesn\'t wind up being even worse than the old one?','2003-07-14 14:44:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4465,1,3760,'159.10.4.104','Kenneth G. Cavness','kenn@cavness.org','http://www.cavness.org/cogicophony/','Thanks Joe — I personally don\'t know, because I don\'t know how powerful the nations outside of Iran, Iraq, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia are; if we do have to invade Iran (which I agree is looking more likely by the day) at some point, I just don\'t want us to start World War III doing it.\r\n\r\nClearly, the \"Arab Street\" was frustrated about Iraq, but didn\'t do anything (yet) about it. I wanted to know if the Muslim world would care about the fate of Iran. The sentiment seems to be here that \"they do nothing other than make a lot of noise and then go back to quietly starving,\" and if that\'s the case, then I think we have nothing to worry about.','2003-07-14 15:32:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4466,1,3764,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','That we shall. Kind of surprised you\'re standing by your conjecture in its entirety... but no use arguing about it now, the truth will out and then we\'ll know.\r\n\r\nI\'m also going to throw this is as a preventitive measure:\r\n\r\n-------\r\n\"I dont\' want to be a hard knuckle, as we call it here, but all this speculation is what starts the rumors.\r\n\r\nI live here in Wirt county, I know the Lynch family and have seen first hand what all this speculation has done to them.\r\n\r\nI know there will always be speculation, but doesn\'t it pay to get the facts first? All it does is hurt the innocent.\r\n\r\nI am not trying to step on toes, but to Wirt County, the whole intire Coalation forces are HEROES! Each and every one of them.\r\n\r\nI also wanted to say, We here in Wirt County, including Palestine and Elizabeth pray for those families who weren\'t as lucky as the Lynch\'s to find out their loved ones were alive. But, sometimes I also wonder if Jessie was the lucky one. How much of her life is ruined by what she indured, Will she ever lead a normal life?\r\n\r\nI admit, to have her alive is great news to all of us, but ???\r\n\r\nAll my prayers to all the men and women fighting for what they believe in- us and our freedom, and the innocent who were forced to live life in Iraq under a Sadistic Evil Ruler.\r\n\r\nMay God bless them all.\"\r\n\r\nPosted by: Wirt County HOME OF JESSIE LYNCH on April 6, 2003 05:54 PM\r\n----','2003-07-14 18:41:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4467,1,3719,'66.68.136.43','Ken','ken@alienlandscape.com','','\"Karl, The biggest problem is paying for that larger army. Yes, they have to be paid. But to get more recruits the salaries would have to be raised across the board. So that increases the salary costs of existing members of the services.\"\r\n\r\nCan you say \"enlistment bonuses\"?\r\n\r\nAnyway, saving money by forcing people into uniform and then paying them less isn\'t a savings at all. If you jack up the pay, all taxpayers chip in to cover the extra cost. If you force people into uniform, you are costing the shanghai-ees the difference between their pay and the amount that would induce them to join voluntarily, while the rest of the taxpayers get off scot-free. The government is still taking from individuals (which is the only way it can operate), but with a draft, the sacrifice is shifted away from older taxpayers to those who are drafted.\r\n\r\n\"But they all need complete kit. There are probably types of weapons systems they\'d need more of that are not even in production.\"\r\n\r\nAnd draftees wouldn\'t need those things?\r\n\r\n\"Also, just because of time it would take to do recruitment and training an appropriation to expand the size of the military would take two or three years to produce more divisions that can actually be fielded.\"\r\n\r\nSo we\'re not actually going to train the draftees? If we are, you\'re double-counting again.\r\n\r\nThe only possible advantage is if people can be forced into uniform faster than they can be recruited. That\'s it. No other costs, in money or time, are reduced. And I don\'t even think that one advantage is very pronounced, if it exists at all. We\'ve already got a recruiting infrastructure; our shanghai-ing infrastructure would have to be rebuilt from the ground up.','2003-07-14 19:16:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4468,1,3760,'172.141.142.132','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','joe is absolutely right about iran (again). so to me the question becomes: what can we do to help this revolution become a reality in the short term?\r\n\r\nbeyond providing the kind of destablization of the mullocracy that joe rightfully suggests, what can we do to further engage in direct discussion with iranians over what their future will be and how they want to get there? \r\n\r\nwhat can we substantively do to strengthen the populace against the thugs who are maintaining the status quo?','2003-07-14 23:06:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4469,1,3750,'216.250.33.25','Ralph','rtacoma@allwest.net','','Andrew,\r\n\r\n Can you provide a reference or link for your statement that casualties from fighting in Germany continued until 1949? I\'ve been looking for a good source of such data for some time.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-15 01:33:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4470,1,3760,'67.73.1.60','Sean','goodlookingui@earthlink.net','','The Iranian Government is currently involved in funding terrorist networks worldwide, cracking down on dissidents back home, arming Afgan warlords along their Eastern border, and (I suspect) arming extremists in Iraq along their Western border. And whatever money is left has to be used to buy the loyalty of the military, clerics and bueracracy. All of the above has to be substantially draining the resources of the Iraninan Government.\r\n\r\nGiven how stretched thin the Iranian Government probably is, perhaps the best means of bringing down the government would be to up the ante in proxy war the US and Iran are waging against each other in Afganistan. Increase our troop presence to 50,000-100,000. Expand the crackdowns to include warlords the Iranian Government is suspected of aiding.\r\n\r\nA few successfull raids and weapons seizures would place significant pressure on the Iranian Government to double up their support for their Afgan allies, which the Iranian government can ill afford to do at the moment. Either the Iranian government doubles up their support and bleeds their own country dry, or it retreats and suffers a serious loss in credibility, thus undermining the regime further in its own country. This plan would have the added advantage of greatly assisting in restoring order in Afganistan, which is something we should have done a long time ago. It would appear to be a win-win situation all around (at least where the US is concerned).','2003-07-15 04:05:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4471,1,3750,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','That one was mine... will have to go back and try to find it.','2003-07-15 04:18:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4472,1,3760,'68.165.42.135','E. Nough','e.nough@NOSPAM.mail.com','http://thinkingmeat.blogspot.com','Joe, thanks for answering my query. It seems that we are in agreement that Iran will work on nuclear weapons no matter what its government. Which makes me all the more concerned as to what kind of society these demonstrators would want to build, if they won. \r\n\r\nThough I can hardly imagine a worse government than that of the mullahs, at least the mullahs are an easy target to sell at home. I\'m just thinking that, for all the enthusiastic support the demonstrators get for being against the mullahs, I\'d hate to see some kind of mullah-lite or otherwise anti-American populist regime emerge in their place.\r\n\r\nNot trying to delegitimize the genuinely heroic people suffering for their opposition to the mullahs, mind you. Just thinking out loud, curious what is behind Door Number 2.','2003-07-15 04:58:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4473,1,3764,'68.166.83.182','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://www.overpressure.com','Roundabout I know one of PFC Lynch\'s surgeons. \r\n\r\nI think the recently released report is sanitized.\r\n\r\nAnd that\'s all I\'ve got to say about that. ','2003-07-15 05:44:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4474,1,3760,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','Reuel Marc Gerecht and other observers have been saying for months that the Iranian nuclear weapons development program is widely popular.\r\n\r\nI\'ve been saying for months that Iran is not going to have a revolution.\r\n\r\nIf we want to stop Iran from going nuclear we have two options: invade or do airstrikes. Invasion seems unlikely to me. Our military is too small and an invasion would cost a lot of lives and money. We are busy dealing with Iraq. Plus, we have North Korea to worry about. Plus, various people are promoting the Liberian intervention because it makes their consciences feel better to do completely altruistic things at the expense of protecting our own vital interests.\r\n\r\nAirstrikes have a better chance of working against Iran than against North Korea since we don\'t even know where North Korea is hiding its uranium purification centrifuges. \r\n\r\nMy best guess at this point is that the US will not stop North Korea or Iran from becoming nuclear powers. I do not see preparations underway on a sufficient scale to make attacks big enough to stop them. The only factor I could see changing that would be another big Al Qaeda attack. If another big terrorist attack happened to an American target then the American public would cross a mental Rubicon and a lot of courses of action would become possible that are not now possible.\r\n','2003-07-15 07:22:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4475,1,3748,'171.75.169.49','MommaBear','hgbare@neaccess.net','http://site-essential.com','Even worse news about that mess concerning the photographer\'s sad death: \r\n\r\nhttp://site-essential.com/blog/15Jul03.shtml#2280\r\n\r\nIt gets uglier and uglier!\r\n','2003-07-15 19:16:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4476,1,3719,'209.29.97.155','John Whitley','jwhitley@ca.inter.net','http://www.survivalistskills.com','Regarding the on-going Middle East war [Iran next?] and the coming North Korean war...\r\n\r\n...See the more-than-spooky \'THE PLAN FOR THREE WORLD WARS\', from the \'New World Order Intelligence Update\' article entitled \'Back To The USSR - With A Vengeance!\' Given that it was first written by Albert Pike over 100 years ago, it has proven surprisingly accurate! \r\n\r\nYou\'ll find that story archived at http://www.survivalistskills.com/russ.htm.\r\n\r\nYou\'ll find a wide array of other fascinating and invaluable articles from the \'New World Order Intelligence Update\' archived at http://www.survivalistskills.com/sect22.htm and archived also at http://www.rarehistorybooks.com/NWOLINKS.HTM','2003-07-15 19:18:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4477,1,3760,'172.141.142.132','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','i agree with the afghanistan approach sean, although i dont know if we need that large a troop size. hell, id be happy with the 10,000 that karzai has asked for... although if our objective is to drain irans influence in the region then maybe a larger number would be in order. i dont know. it would depend on the question of effectiveness. im not sitting in centcom, so that question is not something i have access to good information for answering.\r\n\r\ni agree with e-nough about the mullah-lite concern. a not quite so bad iran is still a bad iran. lets see if we can not sell the iranian people short and actually reach for a good life for them. \r\n\r\ni would remind randall about the slow boil followed by fast strike approach used with iraq, and that has been in evidence in most of our choices of action when it comes to terrorism with this admin. i agree that action is necessary on north korea and iran, but the question is when and how. the defining policy has been one of leaving the target to stew and squirm while we make our own preparations and choose our moment to strike for ourselves. there is a lot of fly paper action going on. a lot of gambits intended to draw out our opposition or lull them into any exploitable overextension on their part. i believe the same is the case with he rove approach to the democratics who are now scrambling over each other to \"blame bush\" for iraq. just because action on iran or north korea is not obvious, it does not mean none is taking place. although there is the obvious risk that this admin will drop the ball, we have many reasons to believe they have not done so yet.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-07-15 20:35:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4478,1,3760,'172.141.142.132','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','oh and randall, some of us support the idea of a liberian intervention because of the clear sign it would send that america is a) not only attacking the muslim world and b) genuinly interested in africa. \r\n\r\nthis isnt a feelgood thing. it is strategic. one of the big problems with islamist terrorism, is the deep seated notion that we americans are weak and will not have the heart to attack, or will not sustain our presence, or are too spread thin, or simply dont care. so the fantasy has spread that terrorism and terror statism can be engaged in with no concern about us thwacking anyone on the back of the head with a huge stick for what they do to us or to their people. \r\n\r\nthe same obviously holds true for africa right now. there is no sense that we are serious about anything in africa, so the impression is that they can do whatever they want as long as they keep it out back. liberia would be the easiest choice for challenging that assumption. it says that we are willing to put teeth into what our president is proposing for africa.. we are not just turning our backs to what is going on in the shadows. \r\n\r\nliberia has a direct relation to what is going on throughout west africa. west africa is a strategic concern. maybe not as big as the middle east, but since when do we have the luxury of fighting this war in some regions but not in others?\r\n\r\nliberia also has a direct connection to our nation, and a highly pro-american population. yes the problem would be the longterm labor intensive cost of nationbuilding, but if we can spread that burden internationally and among the nations of the west african region, then the cost for us will be much lower. \r\n\r\na conservative liberian intervention plan meets the test for deserving a fraction of our resources... it would serve to shatter one more bit of fantasy in the terror driven world. \r\n\r\nthe feelgood factor is just a bonus. ','2003-07-15 20:52:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4479,1,3750,'199.168.33.61','Robin Roberts','finalprotfire@attbi.com','','The Soviets were fighting Ukrainians armed by the Nazi\'s into 1949.','2003-07-15 21:28:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4480,1,3750,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Yes, but that wasn\'t what I mean. See this article, and esp. the link to XII Corps report on post-bellum activities as a start. They had a whole summer of sniping and basically terrorist-type attacks after the war ended (regrettably, it doesn\'t cover beyond 1945).','2003-07-15 21:40:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(103784,1,9802,'71.163.145.21','Demosophist','demosophist-at-windsofchange-dot-net@nada.nix','http://windsofchange.net','As for a serious debate on patriotism, I\'m still struggling with its definition.
\r\n\r\nPatriotism in France or Poland (or most of the rest of the planet) can\'t mean what it means in the US, because the allegiances in France and Poland, etc., are generally to ethnic identity... whereas they have to be to something else in the US because there is no common ethnicity. If it\'s a struggle for you to define what that \"something\" is Tocqueville might be a good place to start.\r\n\r\nAlso suggests that US patriotism might be at odds with \"identity politics\" just a little.\r\n\r\nYeah, I can understand how you\'d be struggling a bit...','2007-10-07 00:30:54','2007-10-06 16:30:54',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,1,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4482,1,3760,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','Balagan, The long running intervention in the Balkans has been meant to show the Muslims that the US will stick up for them. But it has not had that effect. \r\n\r\nGenuine interest in Africa: Bush is increasing spending in 3rd world AIDS assistance and also arguing with the Euros to lower their agricultural trade barriers with Africa. Amazingly, Bob Geldof has stated that the US has a better policy toward Africa than the Europeans. But since Bush is supposedly an evil Republican the Left totally ignores this. \r\n\r\nA really cheap way to improve Africa would be to send a hit squad into Zimbabwe to kill Mugabe. \r\n\r\nThe slow build-up on Iran and North Korea: Well, we need to tell them to put off making nuclear weapons until we are ready to deal with them. Do you suppose they would be willing to wait for us to get ready? \r\n\r\nRove and the Democrats: Rove is a fool. He thinks he can convert the Hispanics into Republican voters. A population group with 42+% illegitimate births and two and a half times the rate of medical uninsurance (fill in assorted other social pathology measures here) is not going to vote for Republicans. ','2003-07-16 01:40:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4484,1,3760,'67.73.0.251','Sean','goodlookingui@earthlink.net','','Hey, what\'s with the dispagment of Hispanic \"population groups\" and \"social pathologies\"? Last time I checked, most of the military casualties from California would be considered Hispanics -- which, in my book, makes up for a hell of a lot of \"social pathologies\", real and/or imagined.\r\n\r\nRove is many things (Machiavellian, a bastard, etc.) but a fool isn\'t one of them. There is a surge in patriotism in this entire country --Hispanic citizens included, which I can personally attest to, given the number of American flags flying in the barrio neighborhoods in California the last couple of years, and the tone of the Iraq War coverage on Telemundo and Univision (even more shamelessly flagwaving than Fox, and I mean that in a good way).\r\n\r\nThe tone-deaf approach of the Democratic Party towards the American mood has the potential of alienating Americans of all stripes, including Hispanics Americans, provided the Republican Party doesn\'t screw it up by giving into the temptation to recycle the \"illegal immigration is ruining America\" canard that turned the Hispanic community against the Republican party ten years ago.\r\n\r\nI could go on, but this post is WAY off topic, so I\'ll stop now.\r\n','2003-07-16 05:47:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4485,1,3760,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','Sean, Some population groups have higher rates of social pathologies than others. Some have more poverty, higher rates of illegitimacy, higher rates of crime, higher rates of high school drop-outs, and other measures. Rove is dreaming if he thinks he can convert them to Republicans.','2003-07-16 08:44:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4486,1,3771,'64.110.90.2','klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','Hmmm, I\'m at a cybercafe in Kenya, here for a wedding - I have family connections. Been coming here for 23 years. Every time it\'s worse: less running water, more potholes, less street lights, the newspapers a daily recital of horrors. At least Moi, that corrupt bastard, is gone, but I\'ll not hold my breath for any renaissance.','2003-07-16 08:53:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4487,1,3760,'66.47.140.59','Sean','goodlookingui@earthlink.net','','So people with high rates of \"pathology\" vote Democratic, and people with low rates of pathology vote Republican? Hey, I\'M a Republican, and I take issue with that assesment.\r\n\r\nBesides, it wasn\'t too long ago (1990 to be exact), that Pete Wilson carried 41% of the Hispanic vote in California in his Gubenatorial election against Dianne Feinstein. And don\'t forget the 1997 LA Mayoral election, where Richard Riordan carried almost 60% of the Hispanic vote, or the 1998 Texas Gubenatorial election, where a fellow named GW Bush (perhaps you\'ve heard of him) carried 44% of the Hispanic vote against a Hispanic opponent. Even Bill \"Ubermoron\" Simon did fairly well among Hispanic voters in his otherwise disasterous challenge to Gray Davis in 2002. What all of those candidates had in common was an ability to see Hispanic individuals as just that -- individuals -- as opposed to a faceless blob that was somehow obligated to vote for a Democratic candidate.','2003-07-16 18:45:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4488,1,3771,'64.101.208.204','Annoying Old Guy','aog@thought-mesh.net','http://blog.thought-mesh.net','You might wonder why the population density of Africa was so low, despite its abundant resources. Perhaps the reason for that might correlate with why it was Europe, not Africa, that created technological civilization, even though Africa had complex societies for a longer period.','2003-07-16 20:27:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4489,1,3775,'194.105.100.217','Ralf Goergens','rgoergens@yahoo.de','http://www.chicagoboyz.net/','I don\'t think you are counting all the costs the \"War on Drugs\" is inflicting on America.\r\nThis is not meant to be a complete list (and the itenms aren\'t in any particular order), but it should be enough to make my point for now. If I find the time I\'ll post a more complete version on Chicago Boyz.\r\n\r\nThe lion\'s share of prisoners are drug-offenders, so you have to chalk up a lot of the the cost for building and maintaining prisons, also paying guards and the upkeep of the prisoners ect. \r\n\r\nMost drug-offenders are non-violent and don\'t stand a chance against hardened \"regular\" cons., who victimize them in every possible way. The leave prison traumatized and often as mental and physical wrecks. They frequently become criminals or homeless, or burden society in other ways. At the very least they are disenfranchised, giving them much less of a stake in society.\r\n\r\nPrisoners are one of the main venue for the spread of Aids.\r\n\r\nPrisoners are used as cheap labor, crowding out \"regular\" workers.\r\n\r\nEnforcing prohibition is expensive and drives up spending. This gives police forces and the various agencies an incentive to rely on highly unjust property forfeiture laws (remember, you don\'t have to be convicted of anything to have your property takean away from yourself). Once they have got used to the revenues from that\r\nthey get an incentive to increase the number of suspects with deep pockets to keep the money rolling in. \r\n\r\nFundamental rights are eroded, and so is rule of law. Less freedom menas less people who are willing to become entrepreneurs. What\'s the use to be your own boss if the government is increasingly acting as if it were your boss? \r\n\r\nIn the long run it increases the percentage of GDP government at all levels collects as taxes, which chokes of growth.\r\n\r\nDrug companies are subjected to much closer supervision, and so are doctors and patients with chronic pain (what if a drug makes them feel good besides taking the pain away? The horror!).\r\n\r\nAgents and police officers know that getting promoted depends on the number of drug-offenders they bring in. They\'ll neglect anything else, including terrorism, to catch them. \r\n\r\nInvestment in inefficient ventures isn\'t as harmless as you think. They tie up physical resources (machinery, real estate etc)) that would go to much better used elsewhere.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-07-16 21:35:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4490,1,3771,'172.167.173.242','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','I strongly suspect Africa\'s current population density is so low due mainly to war/state violence, famine/malnutrition and AIDS. Do we really know what the population estimates were before the Europeans arrived? I doubt it.','2003-07-16 22:15:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4491,1,3777,'67.72.195.121','Watcher','watcherofweasels@mail.com','http://www.upsaid.com/watcherofweasels/','Democrats latching on to this issue as a political weapon are just plain wrong on the facts.','2003-07-16 23:04:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4492,1,3775,'69.34.23.196','Pete Stanley','hello@nospam.com','','I disagree quite strongly with this post.\r\n\r\nHerr Goergens raises good points. Here\'s a few more.\r\n\r\nThe War on Drugs is slowly infringing on our civil liberties. Every item in the Bill of Rights (Amendments I - X of our Constitution) has been damaged to a greater or lesser degree by the War on Drugs. Can RICO laws really be justified?? Free societies generally have better economies, because people are free to think and act on thier own. In the long term, if we give up more and more rights, we are weakening our economy.\r\n\r\nIn the short term, what about narcotics funding for terrorist groups? Sure, we might benefit from hot money, but so does al Qaeda with their poppies in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Hezbollah is messing around in Colombia. I\'m sure they\'re not there for the coffee. The IRA\'s been linked to that, too. And then there is the whole question of North Korea. Legalization and regulation would end the artificially high prices, and weaken these destabilizing sources.\r\n\r\n>>A lot of ill thought out projects that turn out to be resource wasters get funded.<<\r\n\r\nIn order to keep the gods of Capitalism happy, we must offer sacrifices of inefficient businesses. Inefficient businesses are ultimately a burden on our society. If narco money is pumping up bad ideas, sooner or later the only growth industry will be illegal narcotics. (See Joe\'s article on the Yakuza recession.)\r\n\r\nTo sum it up, legalization would probably mean a big hit to our economy. I don\'t care. I\'d rather be poor and free than wealthy and in chains.','2003-07-16 23:19:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4494,1,3775,'67.225.186.210','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','as Bob Herzog might say, \"LET THE DICE FALL WHERE THEY MAY!\"\r\n\r\nLook, this is actually one issue that I\'m ambivalent on. I don\'t use drugs (except for the occasional alcoholic beverage) and have no interest in using drugs, but I can see the case for legalizing some, at least. But I\'m hardly enthusiastic (nor am I an enthusiastic supporter of prohibition - I mean, at least in the \'20s it was done honestly; they understood that a Constitutional amendment was needed before the Federal Government could enact prohibition on alcohol). And all the costs accounted for by other commenters that I won\'t repeat (the costs that worry me most are the broader Liberty-related ones. People harp on how the War on Terrorism is eroding our Liberties - the War on Drugs has eroded them more, government has gained more powers to investigate and intrude into our private transactions using Drugs as the rationale and the War on Terror rationales just follow in this wake).\r\n\r\nBut lets just say that this is correct and on balance our economy is built on \"hot money\" from the black market drug trade.\r\n\r\nI don\'t see that as a reason to perpetuate it. That, indeed, is a reason to end it sooner rather than later; the economic distortions would only get worse.\r\n\r\nWe\'re economically better off with alcohol legal, not illegal - despite the costs (drunk drivers, alcohol-related diseases, the costs of alcoholism and the like. Costs don\'t exist only on the illegal side of the ledger).\r\n\r\nEconomic distortions like this are better being lanced sooner than later. Waiting only makes the problem worse. So if our economy really is (an argument I\'m going to call \"unproven\" atm, but lets assume it is) dependent to this degree on infusions of drug-related capital, better to lance the boil and drain the infection now than let it fester, let the gangrene spread further, just to avoid the pain that operating now would cause.\r\n\r\nBtw, legalized drugs will still cause profits that will then be invested in something, and the American economy is still, by and large, the best bet in the long run. Especially since we do tend, at least to a degree *relatively* greater than others, to not let major economic distortions go on and on (I know there are counter-examples; no need to throw Farm subsidies at me, for instance; I\'m talking in general).\r\n\r\nLET THE DICE FALL WHERE THEY MAY!','2003-07-16 23:50:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4495,1,3777,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','A.L.,\r\n\r\nDon\'t confuse the media with the real world. Traction in the media means nothing if the public doesn\'t give a rip, especially if what they don\'t give a rip about is the media.\r\n\r\nThis goes both ways too. Most people fall asleep when the subject of gay marriage comes up.\r\n\r\nI\'ve explained to Telenko many times that what he thinks of as evidence of conspiracy, evil, or flatulence is really just fund-raising activity among the faithful suckers. Democratic candidates have a grand time promoting your issue on television because (a) it gets them on television and (b) it gets them campaign contributions from people with money for whom the issue is one of quasi-religious faith.\r\n\r\nRepublican candidates have a grand time denouncing gay marriage on television because (a) it gets them on television and (b) it gets them campaign contributions from people with money for whom the issue is one of quasi-religious faith. Sure they say it really is religious faith, but it isn\'t. Consider what Jerry Fallwell said about the Panama Canal Treaty.','2003-07-16 23:56:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4530,1,3777,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','OK, Chuck\'s gone. I\'ve left his first comment up as an explanation to those down the road who may wonder why.\r\n\r\nChuck, if you comment again on my posts, I\'ll delete them. Thanks for visiting.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-17 05:12:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4531,1,3777,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Porphy, Tim - I think we\'re onto something as we are talking about the mechanics of politics and the consequences they have had on the substance of politics.\r\n\r\nSomething we all ought to be writing about...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-17 06:10:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4497,1,3777,'67.225.186.210','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Again, sure this is the media issue-de-jure that the politicians are responding to.\r\n\r\nBut to parallel the argument I made in response to the mail by M. Simon, *HOW* they respond isn\'t determined by the media, but by themselves. I don\'t think of them as androids, or as bundles of responses to external stimuli. I give them credit for thinking (I tend to give everyone credit for having a viewpoint, a world view, rather than accidentally stumbling into their positions on particular issues they instead arrive at their positions and responses to issues - like this one - based on their viewpoint, world view, and the like). They\'re moral agents, too, and as such responsible for their own behavior, their own responses.\r\n\r\nThe fact that, at least to me, the responses of the prominent Democrats to this evidences misplaced priorities, at best (as I put it in the post to which that quote of mine was a follow-through on); driven more by \"gotcha\" and antipathy to Bush rather than really addressing whether there is a problem with the intelligence agencies (agencies that, let us not forget, people like John Kerrey were voting to cut in the \'90s).\r\n\r\nAlso, this isn\'t entirely media-driven; it\'s somewhat mutually-reinforcing (the media raise a topic and then the rest of the thing is spent quoting various politicians responses to it); the type of response they have given has been very revealing of a lack of seriousness in prosecuting and winning the war that you think should be fought and fought seriously.\r\n\r\nThere are significant critiques that can be made of Bush on this score, I think. But they fail to make *those* kinds of critiques because they are, in their hearts, as I described in my extensive critique of their reaction to this and why they are driven to react as they have (which is, IMO, an analysis I stand by; media-related issues is not the reason why the two Democratic candidates that are arguably most serious on this conflict, Gephardt and Lieberman, had \"disappointing\" fundraising quarters and Dean had one that \"exceeded expectations\").\r\n\r\nAs I think I mentioned somewhere in those posts (I\'m too lazy and sleepy to go back and re-read them now), I too have been critical of the \"strategery\" of modern politics.\r\n\r\nOh, and these guys have had lots of opportunities to perhaps rethink some of the more hysterical statements they\'ve made in response to these things. There response has been to get more, rather than less, melodramatic. Kerry and others, indeed, are at the point where (as chronicled by multiple people in multiple blog posts and web articles) they are contradicting their own earlier statements (ones made in, say, \'98, where they acknowledged they had seen intel reports and were gravely concerned about the weapons programs that they now say Bush is lying about).\r\n\r\nBob Graham is particularly shameless, IMO, because he was, until fairly recently, the Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee and is now acting like he hasn\'t ever seen any of the things that Chairs of Senate Intelligence Committee are privy to. This is deceptive.\r\n\r\nIndeed, throughout all this, one thing stands out in the way quotes are being distorted, facts selectively manipulated and massaged, and this matter being presented and hyped: these people are ENGAGING IN THE VERY ACTIVITY THEY ACCUSE THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION OF DOING (sorry for screaming that). This is telling.\r\n\r\nWhat we\'re seeing is a whole lotta projectin goin on. They are manipulating things and distorting the truth, while claiming to be candid.\r\n\r\nThis is *their* responsibility, *their* reaction. Sure, the media outlets are doing that, too, for which it\'s right to hold them accountable. But I for one don\'t let the pols off the hook for their behavior. They are equally culpable.\r\n\r\nI *do* expect better and until we all do, then we\'re going to get what we have here. Do you want to fight the War on Bad Philosophy, or just explain what drives it and accept it as a force of nature (a analogy I referenced in my \"Student!\" post)?\r\n\r\nNow, ok, some of this is a matter of degree. But on an issue as important as the success or failure of our country in a major war, I expect better. I think we should demand better. Explaining why we don\'t (with the car analogy) is not sufficient. Shame on us if we accept this.\r\n\r\nI better stop ranting.\r\n\r\nI guess I\'ll sum up with why I think Democracy is the best system. It isn\'t because it always produces the right answer (though IMO the people are far more likely to recognize a mistake and change their position than an elite that can insulate themselves from the consequences of a decision, and thus often impose things that fit a preconcieved notion and the costs affect others, not themselves, so they are slow to alter their position). Democracy is the best because, ultimately, it means people get what they deserve (for good or ill).\r\n\r\nIf this is what we accept, then we get what we deserve and since you read those posts you know what I think that will be.','2003-07-17 00:17:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4498,1,3777,'138.133.17.8','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Chuck, I don\'t engage with idiots unless they threaten me, which you certainly don\'t.\r\n\r\nTo the rest of the WoC audience:\r\n\r\nI banned Chuck from commenting at Armed Liberal because I believe comments are a forum for discussion and debate, not for demonstrating one\'s inability to do either by screaming nonsense at the top of one\'s lungs.\r\n\r\nI\'m making up my mind whether to ban him from my posts again, and discussing it with Joe.\r\n\r\nIf his comments vanish, well, you\'ve seen why.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-17 00:26:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4499,1,3777,'67.225.186.210','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','\"Do you want to fight the War on Bad Philosophy, or just explain what drives it and accept it as a force of nature (a analogy I referenced in my \"Student!\" post)?\"\r\n\r\nThat was an unfair shot. I apologize for it. I know A.L. better than that.\r\n\r\nWhat I do mean, though, is I think that things like this are driven by the \"other side\" in the WoBP; this is bubbling up from that font, and shame on the Democratic Candidates for playing to that audience.\r\n\r\nLike I mentioned in those posts, no Democrat today could talk like JFK or Truman did, there\'s a reason for that, and it\'s not a reason that I think a Democrat should be sanguine about. The activist, donor, and organizational base of their party DID, in my (observed and not uninformed) opinion become the New Left (taking over from the old political machines. I now understand why Tip O\'Neil could be so whistful about the Boston machine politics as he was in his book, \"Man of the House\". He couldn\'t be too direct about it, though. . .)\r\n\r\nTHIS too, IMO, is part and parcel of the WoBP - issues like this becoming the topic of the day (the \"silenced\" dissenters set the agenda, set the terms of civic discourse though not its content. Democratic Presidential candidates dance to their tune. We won\'t have won the WoBP until that is no longer the case, and the agenda is set on more healthy topics of discussion. Then, ok, have it out on them; there is, as I said, lots of grounds on which IMO a healthy Democratic party, that wasn\'t dancing to the tune of the mood-music played by the New Left, could be incisively - and even viciously - savaging the Bush Administration over. Why aren\'t they calling for a major increase in the military budget to match our troop needs? Because the wrong sorts of \"tune\" are being played and they dance to that. WHen that changes, we\'ll have won, and not before).','2003-07-17 00:30:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4500,1,3777,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Porphy -\r\n\r\nMy point was meant to be that what the Dems are doing is just what you accuse them of - but that it works, and that as long as it does, we may be unhappy about it, but it\'s not likely to go away...\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-17 00:34:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4501,1,3777,'67.225.186.210','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Maybe it\'s just me, but I found Chuck\'s comments unintelligable so I MEGOed half way through them.','2003-07-17 00:35:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4502,1,3777,'67.225.186.210','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Well, that\'s something I think we need to fix.\r\n\r\nTom is onto something in that for too many politicians it\'s all to easy to play to the fringes. The rest of us need to be more pro-active IMO in not just being disinterested in that but repelled by it and not letting that be rewarded. Otherwise they\'ll keep feeding the forces that I think we\'d agree should be given the hook rather than the spotlight in center stage.\r\n\r\nI mean, the rest of us have money and therefore clout, too, as far as that goes. Ennui is no excuse for letting the jokers have control.','2003-07-17 00:42:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4503,1,3777,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Porphy et al -\r\n\r\nI agree, but who\'s gonna bell the cat?? How do we get from here to there? I think that blogs - as form of discussion, and as a template that I think bigger media will inch toward - offer a good mechanism for the kind of topic- and issue- based politics that I think we both want.\r\n\r\nI vaguely see the connection between this (politics as tactics) and the WoBP, but haven\'t managed to articulate it yet. I\'d love to see your take on it.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-17 00:52:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4504,1,3777,'209.63.198.168','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','A.L.\r\n\r\n The best marketing and salesmenship in the world won\'t sell a car lot full of Edsels.\r\n\r\n That is what the Niger \'yellow cake\' story is, a car lot full of Edsels.\r\n\r\n\r\nPorphyrogenitus,\r\n\r\n Tom is spot on WRT the politico\'s money games. \r\n\r\n I first spotted this of playing to the fringes for money game with the National Rifle Association\'s flame out over \"cop-killer bullets\" about 15 years back.\r\n\r\n The rank and file of the NRA gave lots of money when the subject was brought up and the extremist factions, and the money raising professional suits, used that as a tool to displace more moderate members of the NRA board with the more extreme faction.\r\n\r\n Having a business management and not a poli-sci background like Tom does, I did not see the pattern beyond that until I explained what I saw happening then to him a few years ago and he pointed out the template\'s wider use in partisan politics.\r\n\r\n The point here was that the NRA lost the issue, but the suits got the money and the extremists got control of the organization with a burning issue that would keep both well feed in rank and file cash for a long time.\r\n\r\n What is going on right now is the same game of \"grab the cash\" by the various Democratic presidential candidates as well as the shaping of the acceptable issues for the Democratic primaries so as to influence who controls the party.\r\n\r\n Like the NRA in the \"Cop-killer bullet\" debate, winning the wider Presidential election battle is besides the point.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-17 01:05:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4505,1,3777,'68.21.245.193','Michael Ubaldi','fc@figureconcord.com','http://www.figureconcord.com/ublog/','The revelation of the uranium charge being based on questionable evidence was, indeed, before the war and therefore a poor representative of \"lies\" used to push the nation into deposing Hussein - like you said, A.L., it just wasn\'t an issue until now. Nobody jumped on it.\r\n\r\nWhat I didn\'t know was that Waxman accused the president of dishonesty. Which means, of course, that indeed, nobody jumped on it.\r\n\r\nWhy? For a good time, enter \"Waxman accuses\" into a Google search string. The man has no better claim to fame.','2003-07-17 01:07:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4506,1,3775,'206.190.18.233','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Pete Stanley, Porphyrogenitus, etc.\r\n\r\nMy suggestion that we not end the drug war was sarcasm. And I did not cover all the costs of the war because I wanted to focus on the hot money aspects.\r\n\r\nYou are all correct. The Drug War is a terrible burden on all of us for so many reasons. I just wanted to point out why politicians might talk out of both sides of their mouth on this subject. The Drug War is an octopus strangling the world and especially America. Ending it will not be all benefit - at least initially. It is going to hurt. Widows and orphans too.\r\n\r\nWho wants to be remembered as the one who cut the American economy by 30% or 50%? A lot of people will be devastated when we give up this one. As William Burroughs once said: the money is more addictive than the drugs.','2003-07-17 01:13:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4532,1,3774,'12.18.76.9','Scott','f1b0nacc1@msn.com','','I offer a few observations re: the Chinese air force.\r\n\r\n1) The planes used by the Chinese are all characterized by extremely short ranges and limited engine life. This means that in practice they will experience tactical limitations in any sort of projection scenario. This also means that training hours are limited, which tends to have a severe impact on pilot quality. If the Israeli experience in their various wars tells us anything, this last problem can be critical.\r\n\r\n2) For all of the talk of asymetrical warfare, there is very little that can be identified that isn\'t easy enough to protect against. Obviously one must know what sort of thing is coming in order to guard against it, but I short of information warfare (which by its nature is much easier to conceal) it is unlikely that the Chinese are going to have any serious surprises in store for us unless we simply stop looking. For all of the (many valid) criticisms of our intelligence services, willful ignorance tactical innovations really hasn\'t been observed. The few explicit countermeasures used in the recent war with Iraq (oil fires, GPS jammers, etc.) have been remarkably ineffective, and in fact often provided alert attackers with new opportunities.\r\n\r\n3) The Chinese might frustrate our tactical objectives for a reasonably short time (your article mentioned 3-6 months, I consider that extremely unlikely), but at a very high cost. More to the point, if the Chinese modernize their air force sufficiently to actually provide a strong opponent, they will be forced to do so with higher cost units, which would limit their traditional quantity for deployment. These more advanced units would also require significantly enhanced training and other investment in human resources, a potentially dangerous initiative for a totalitarian police state. The Chinese record on modernization has been extremely poor (their sub fleet is a superlative example of this), and the nature of their military leadership is unlikely to militate in favor of the sort of technologically capable forces that win wars.\r\n\r\n4) You mentioned that the Chinese \'might pick of an F-14 or two\', if they ran out of missiles. They had best hurry, as the Tomcats are rapidly being replaced by newer F-18Es and sent to a well-earned retirement.','2003-07-17 06:12:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4508,1,3760,'172.148.123.81','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','well im a hispanic-eastern european mutt, and my very hispanic grandfather was a reagan democrat, so from my personal experience i think rove has a much better chance to be right about this than you realize. my experience with hispanic voting habits is quite far from being in the minority of this \"minority\". the hispanic population as a whole isnt as intrinsically pro-dem as you seem to believe. there is a much greater likelyhood that there will be about an even split among basic ideologies. if anything, hispanics are more likely to vote for those candidates that are a mix of the republican politics of personal responsibility and the democratic pro-immigrant social positions. in other words this voting block is up for grabs. welcome to swing-vote politics.\r\n\r\nas for the intervention in the balkans, i do not think the muslim world thinks much about this small sliver of european land. i think the root issue in the balkan conflict is the return of ethnic cleansing in europe on a mass scale for the first time since hitlers holocaust. it is disgusting that the world waited so long to intervene, and it is terrible that the un played the role in allowing the slaughter that it did. i do agree that a neverending mission in the balkans is not a solution to the problems of the region... what we need is to revisit the balkan issue with fresh eyes and ask ourselves just what would be effective in breaking out of the peace only at gunpoint that there has been, and finally seeing the emergence of genuine sustainable selfgoverning nations. we have left the balkans on the back burner and forgotten of their existance for too long. \r\n\r\non africa, i agree about mugabe. that does not mean we should ignore liberia. you want to take the genuine caring intelligent young supporters of freedom in the world away from the lie they are living with their current commitment to the radical anti-american left? how bout showing that the rest of us have the foresight to care about west africa, conflict diamonds, tribal slaughter, and the connection failed nation states have to being used as havens for al qaeda and other fantasy addicted fundamentalist terrorists. this war we are in has many fronts, not least of which are the war over support in europe and here at home. i am not suggesting sending in tens of thousands of troops to liberia. just to have a genuine commitement to instigating real change. \r\n\r\non slow buildup, it all depends on what slow means to us. im not advocating waiting forever on iran and north korea. i dont personally think we have the option for war with north korea before oct (based on the assortment of logistics involved), no matter how much we may want it. that would change of course of nk attacked first, because we could count on a much greater amount of support and would be much less limited in the actions we can respond with. i also think that the ideas being floated by the pentagon and by glenn reynolds, among others, of a not-quite-war are very much worth more attention. for iran, i think the facts on the ground are changing before our eyes. we should let it simmer a little more before commiting to any one course of action. check back in sept. ','2003-07-17 01:35:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4509,1,3779,'24.28.2.101','Matthew','portablematthew@yahoo.com','http://fearfulsymmetry.blogspot.com/','Joe, I think your points about Truman are well-taken, but I am fairly dismayed that Truman\'s comments are written off in ADL press releases as evidence that he was a \"man of the times,\" whereas Rev. Billy Graham\'s similar comments on the Nixon audiotapes led the ADL to label him an anti-Semite until he issued a public apology. Both men supported Israel during their careers, and if it\'s wrong to second-guess Truman now, it was wrong to second-guess Graham then.','2003-07-17 01:36:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4510,1,3777,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Back to the debate...\r\n\r\nIf you want to know why America has these political dynamics, it goes beyond PACs and their funding role. A.L. is actually the one who identified it, in his article on gerrymandering (\"fixing\" district boundaries).\r\n\r\nThe results include political approaches and tactics that often win battles, but make the public much more apprehensive about both parties. The radical base, in either party, will only become less effective when the politicians in their districts have a realistic possibility of losing - and so need to be careful. Without that check, the downside of disappointing the crazies is HIGHER than the downside of disappointing moderate voters. QED.\r\n\r\nRe: Banning/removing comments, recall the Winds of Change.NET Comments Policy. A.L. already has that power within his own posts, without input from me.','2003-07-17 01:51:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4511,1,3779,'216.162.118.91','Joel Eissenberg','flylab1@yahoo.com','','Joe, thanks for this cogent and detailed analysis. This type of post is what keeps me coming back.','2003-07-17 02:02:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4512,1,3779,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','My take: it was wrong to second-guess Billy Graham, too. Harvey MacKay has written some stories about the Graham organization that essentially give the lie to ADL\'s accusations. They weren\'t about his treatment of Israel, but about his and his organization\'s treatment of Jews. Not publicly, anonymously.\r\n\r\nBluntly, the ADL was completely full of B.S. about Rev. Billy Graham, and they ought to be ashamed of themselves for slandering him. Lashon ha ra applies to activist organizations, too.','2003-07-17 02:32:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4513,1,3777,'63.196.189.109','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','I second the motion to ban Pelto.','2003-07-17 02:48:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4514,1,3777,'12.236.106.110','roublen vesseau','roublen@yahoo.com','http://hardheads.blogspot.com/','re: the fixed price thing, doesn\'t it depend on the price the dealer was offering? What people hate is the feeling that the dealer is pretending that you beat him down, while in fact he\'s waiting for the ink to dry to whoop it up at the massive profit margin. Offering a fixed price guarantees you won\'t get jobbed in relation to other customers of the same dealer, but it doesn\'t assuage the fear that the dealer is offering a fair price on a reasonable margin (what\'s \"fair\"? Good question. let\'s not think about it.) \r\n\r\nThe biggest misconception among the bigshot Democratic politicos is the notion that they have to drive Bush\'s approval numbers down, and damage Bush\'s personal reputation, in order to win elections. It worked for the Republicans with Clinton/Gore, but they have a lot of advantages that we don\'t, among them more money, the corporate media, and a number of partisans in judicial positions willing to shamelessly abuse prosecutorial and subpoena power in order to damage Democrats, while either refusing to investigate Republicans, or simply letting them off the hook for the same offenses. \r\n\r\nBut I digress. My point is voters don\'t have disapprove of Bush to vote Democratic. They simply have to approve of the Democratic candidate *more* than they approve of Bush. That is, they have to be persuaded that they personally, and the country as a whole, will do better if the Democrat gets elected. \r\n\r\nWhat\'s wrong with the DNC\'s current approach is that they\'re talking a great deal about how the Bush administration has failed, and how their motives are often malign, but it doesn\'t seem to talk very much about how much better the country will do if the Dems\' get the keys to the car.\r\n\r\nThat said, I think an ideological Republican should be madder at the RNC than I am at the DNC.\r\nLook, these fellas have control of all three branches of government. That\'s a big deal, and it\'s not going to last for very long. What has the current administration been doing with all that power?\r\n\r\nF!@#-all, as far as I can see. I think the ideological conservatives are being kept in line with the message \"Wait until 2004\". *Then* we\'ll get started on that conservative utopia. ','2003-07-17 03:00:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4515,1,3777,'68.166.83.182','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://www.overpressure.com','Summer news crap. We won\'t still be talking about this in October.\r\n\r\nI wondered, since the Nigerian forgery deal was made clear BEFORE the war, why it has come to the fore NOW.\r\n\r\nBecause it is something. And when stuff turns up, these people will abandon it for something else. \r\n\r\nAnd there will be no recriminations.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-07-17 03:05:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4533,1,3777,'67.225.186.64','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Armed Liberal wrote:\r\n\r\n\"I agree, but who\'s gonna bell the cat?? How do we get from here to there?\"\r\n\r\nDid I mention that we were boned? It may be that the rat is too big for the snake (odd, I was thinking the \"Rabbit Stew\" analogy when I was writing my comments, but didn\'t include it. \"First catch the rabbit\" and all).\r\n\r\nWell, parties come and go, but that\'s a pretty extreme option (remember I posted awhile back that. . .)\r\n\r\nHere\'s what *I* would recommend, as a start:\r\n\r\nSerious, moderate Democrats need to become more active (I know you are, but not enough are at this stage. As Tom suggests, it\'s the nutbars - and the Republicans, yes, have theirs too, though I\'d argue they keep them chained a bit better I know that other people would debate me on that).\r\n\r\nWhy is it that Lieberman and Gephardt are being pulled to the Left? IMO, the majority of the Democratic Party isn\'t as far Left as all that. Look, I made ~$14,000 last year, but I\'m going to make it a priority to give $50 or so to candidates I support. There\'s no excuse for moderate Democratic candidates to be out-fund raised by a candidate who\'s appealing to the Leftward part of the Democratic base (for all that Dean, in how he\'s governed in Vermont, is fairly moderate, it\'s indisputable that he\'s running a campaign to appeal to the Left rather than the vital center of the Democratic Party).\r\n\r\nJust as with folks who, when guys like us decried the fact that Stalinists like International ANSWER were the organizers of the Anti-War Rallies, there is no excuse for the organizational and activist core of the Democratic party to be drawn disproportionately from the Left. No excuse for mainstream candidates to get \"out hussled\" on the ground by Dean supporters.\r\n\r\nThere\'s a reason why IMO it\'s unarguable on the merits that Pat Robertson isn\'t the force in the Republican Party that he was for a time there in the \'80s and early \'90s, and guys like Pat Buchannan are right out of the Republican Party - the more mainstream Republicans made sure they didn\'t steal center stage. Now, mainstream Republicans are more conservative than you (and certainly than Roublen and Tim Noah and Josh Marshall would want (after all, they tend to be the former Democrat Neocons and their ilk, like former Truman Democrat Ronald Wilson Reagan, and no hatreds run so deep as those of internecine struggles). Do the Republicans still have a ways to go here? Yah. But it seems the Democrats, like yourself, don\'t even know where to start.\r\n\r\nThis is part and parcel of the demoralization (loss of confidence) I was talking about; it seems like such a big task to club these guys over the head and take the wheel of your own party back into your own hands and away from people who often aren\'t even Liberal. \r\n\r\nWhat we\'re talking about I don\'t think is all that different from other institutions we talk about in the context of the WoBP - not at all. But even if one doesn\'t think it\'s really that (though perhaps related to that somehow), the tactics are IMO similar; a matter of confident re-assertion. Prodding people who you know who are moderate, reasonable Democrats who roll their eyes at some of the antics that they think hurts the party but end up becoming less involved rather than more and acting as if \"well, that\'s the way it is, that\'s the way it\'s gonna be\".\r\n\r\nIf a tug is re-asserted in the opposite direction, then guys like Liberman, rather than trimming to the Left to try and get attention, will not have to. He can (return to) speak(ing) out on some of the issues he\'s dropped because they don\'t appeal to the people who are in control of the \"pre-primary primary\" (and issues that indeed antagonize that constituency, because they - rightly IMO - see Lieberman\'s stance on such matters as hostile to them. That is to say, the \"old\" Lieberman was a Warrior in the War on Bad Philosophy in his own way, and on your side and mine, and that is anathema to them). Similarly with Gephardt (though perhaps to a lesser degree in some ways but a greater degree in others; he and Lieberman aren\'t twins, I\'m not saying that, but they each represent, in their own way, at least outside of the context of the current political environment, which has caused them to warp themselves in maladaptive ways, healthy positions in the Democratic party); in some ways the Gephardt that\'s running for President now hardly resembles the man who ran in \'88, and those changes IMO reflect a bad drift in the politics of the Democratic party. A drift that could be checked if people didn\'t just assume that the Conspiracy-Mongering Psychos pull the strings and ya\'ll just pick over what they leave you when it\'s time to enter the Primary booth.\r\n\r\nI donno how it is with you but I know how it was with me and with my mother. Generally even in just get togethers with Liberal friends, when politics came up, it was the more extreme sort who tended to take center-stage and hardly anyone would dare to challenge their points (they might disagree, but would be too polite to say so). Eventually I did speak up from time to time when I thought something was ott. My mom challenges her friends (gets only grief for it) when they go ott (she still considers herself Liberal though I obviously no longer consider myself Liberal). Howver much of that there is, there should be more of it. Too often obviously risible theories and assertions are just left to stand rather than being laughed off the as they should be, and as a result the \"Liberal\" side of this debate, as seen in the sort of articles referenced by the other side in these exchanges, bear no discernible relationship to reality. That\'s not healthy (remember that Thomas Sowell quote I often reference?)\r\n\r\nOnly ya\'ll can pull things back, but it\'s going to take widespread work. IMO it\'ll have an influence on other institutions, too, if it starts to happen. But to the degree that you point to how the politicians are playing off the media (which then in turn play off the reactions of the politicians, and the initial media play is driven by a political context, in a mutually re-enforcing cycle) and then discern no thread that dangles that, when pulled, will cause the mess to unravel, well then did I mention that we were screwed?\r\n\r\nParties that play to constituencies like the teacher\'s unions and professorates (a hotbed of radicalism) and radical lawyer groups and rather out-of-touch but cash-rich starlets (themselves with views that are hardly in the middle of the Democratic party, much less America), and the members of unions of broken government institutions, and takes its intellectual cues from the Paul Krugmans and Robert Scheers (btw, Scheer is a great example of someone who\'s NOT a Liberal but is accepted as one by too many Liberals. He\'s not alone, either) and their ilk on the Unreconstructed Conspiratorial Left (and similar sorts in academe) (as you\'re pointing out in how the candidates are feeding back the feedback they get from the media they want to get the attention and praise of, because it will help them with the sort of constituencies they are trying to catch fire with; \"Tim Noah quoted me saying that the President lied when he said the sun shines in the day rather than in the night, and Tim said I had made a devastating point against Bush! The contributions are pouring in now! I just got a check from roublen vesseau!\"), and thus cannot assist in reforming those institutions (pace the WoBP) and also cannot be reformed because it is too dependent upon those aforementioned things, then one is buggered right and proper. It might be time to man the life boats. Other people have determined that \"the Democratic party left me, I didn\'t leave it\".\r\n\r\nIf there\'s no other way, then that way will eventually work. Parties do, ultimately, have to pay attention to shrinkage. And just because it\'s been a long time since a major American political party vanished and was replaced by a new one that doesn\'t mean it can\'t happen again. Will enough people do it? I\'m betting they\'re afraid of the water (go over the side? The water is icy. There are many things not to like about the idea. Lets stay on the ship. We certainly *don\'t* want to get on that other ship, which is sailing in the wrong direction in our opinion, except that at least they\'re more serious about staying afloat and keeping us all {to strain the analogy, the country} afloat. But they\'re going in the wrong direction).\r\n\r\nI got off. I never was much of a multiculturalist in the sense the Left means it and the Liberals have accepted it (I agreed with Arthur Jr. but he ended up deciding to take the better part of valor after \"The Disuniting\") and came to disagree on a variety of Liberty grounds (dittoes in many ways; the greatest menace to liberty today are the campus people who declare their dissent so stifled that they simply *must* keep you from speaking out, because it creates a hostile environment for them and intimidates speech when they are criticised and contradicted), and I read Hayek. But that\'s my path. It isn\'t everyone\'s path (I\'m rambling, it\'s late).\r\n\r\nWhat are you going to do? I donno. Like I said, lots of people like yourself are going to have to be the check-writers for moderates, the activists for moderates, people that get out and out-shout the Leftists at Democratic candidate rallies (the feedback they get from the crowds tell them which lines \"work\" and which don\'t. Right now, the crowds are Leftists, so the lines that \"work\" are Leftist lines and that is the direction they go).\r\n\r\nI know, I know \"hey, unlike those bozos, we have jobs and families that we care about. The reason they go to those things is they have no lives outside of politics (for them \'the political is the personal\' and \'the personal is the political\' and their idea of a nice family outting is take-the-kid-to-the-petition-drive-rally and the Tots for Peace and Unilateral Surrender Protest and have the kid fold the sheets of paper together for the mass mailing of our local Socialist Newsletter, \'Still Poorly Mimeographed on Virgin Hypoalergenic Recycled Sentless Paper\'), and mainstream Democrats *DO* have lives outside of politics (our idea of a nice family outing is to go see \"Finding Nemo\" and then out to dinner and maybe walk the dog in the park and play ball or something)\". Well, one has the priorities one has. That\'s why they out hustle ya\'ll when it comes to politics. Did I mention we were all damned and doomed, not just the Democratic party?\r\n\r\nRefa: \"what did he really say?\"\r\n\r\nLondo: \"He said we are both damned.\"','2003-07-17 06:17:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4517,1,3777,'12.236.106.110','roublen vesseau','roublen@yahoo.com','http://hardheads.blogspot.com/','oh and on Iraq, I\'m waiting for a Democratic candidate to make these three points:\r\n\r\n1) the national security case for going to war with Iraq was very weak, and only looks weaker post-war\r\n\r\n2)the moral/humanitarian case for removing Saddam was very strong.\r\n\r\n3) Whether or not you supported the decision to go to war, all of us can agree that now that the war is over, it is very important to American interests, and the right thing to do besides, that we give substantial help in rebuilding Iraq, and give the Iraqi people every chance to make their country a success story\r\n\r\nThe two Democrats that have essentially been making these three points, thought not in these exact words, have been Gen. Wesley Clark and Al Gore (god, I love that guy!). \r\n\r\nThe other Democratic candidates have not made an explicit distinction between the humanitarian and national security cases for war, which I think is very important.\r\n\r\nA personal expansion on point #2:\r\n\r\nI do not say this with any smugness or certainty, but I do not believe that going to war in March 2003 was the wisest course of action, even from a humanitarian POV. The costs in war of American blood, toil, treasure, and prestige, and Iraqi blood and Arab humiliation & resentment, have been high enough that it makes sense to ask, as Nancy Pelosi did, whether we could have brought down those statues for a lot less, by pursuing a more patient, long-ranging, semi-covert, \"surgical\" policy of regime change, with a stronger and more authentic Iraqi opposition. \r\n\r\n','2003-07-17 03:46:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4518,1,3777,'172.150.205.7','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','I think a bit of humiliation was completely intentional. Also, am I the only person who thought we\'ve been trying to take out Hussein internally for quite some time now? And it just wasn\'t working?\r\n\r\nWesley Clark... please runnnnnnnn!','2003-07-17 03:51:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4519,1,3775,'172.150.205.7','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','Would it really cut it by 30% or 50%? ','2003-07-17 03:54:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4521,1,3777,'12.236.106.110','roublen vesseau','roublen@yahoo.com','http://hardheads.blogspot.com/','remind me not to comment before reading. If you want the definitive take on why \"yellow cake\" has been getting lots of play, read Timothy Noah\'s article in Slate:\r\n\r\n\r\n. . .The yellowcake lie landed on Page One solely because it occasioned a brief and fatal departure from the Bush White House\'s press strategy of stonewalling. \"Bush Claim on Iraq Had Flawed Origin, White House Says\" read a New York Times headline on July 8. Glancing through the story, Chatterbox initially puzzled over its Page One placement. Didn\'t we know already that Bush\'s yellowcake line was a lie? Then Chatterbox realized that the novelty component wasn\'t the lie, but the Bush administration\'s admission that it had told an obvious lie. In the Bush White House, this simply isn\'t done. Observe, for instance, how the new Bush press secretary, Scott McClellan, handled a question yesterday about Bush\'s weird statement that we went to war because Saddam refused to admit weapons inspectors into Iraq. . .\r\n
\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-07-17 04:00:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4525,1,3777,'18.95.7.210','Catfish and Cod','catfishncod@yahoo.com','http://catfishncod.blogspot.com','I\'d love for the Democrats to beat Bush with this issue just like a shoe on a picture of Saddam. But, alas, there\'s far more here than meets the eye. The British continue to insist that uranium purchases were attempted, and they have proof... but are hamstrung and can\'t show us. The trail is long and convoluted, and some senior US officials believe that France is blocking the release of the intelligence for her own purposes.\r\n\r\nMore here.\r\n\r\nSometimes beating on an issue doesn\'t simply win you political points. Sometimes it also exposes deeper layers you didn\'t realize existed.','2003-07-17 04:34:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4526,1,3777,'12.236.106.110','roublen vesseau','roublen@yahoo.com','http://hardheads.blogspot.com/','this is probably pointless, but. . .Chuck, I wonder why you put \'think\' and \'lost\' in quotes, since I never wrote \'em. What I wrote was that I would not have pulled the trigger and decided to invade in March 2003. I would have, at a minimum, strengthened and legitimised the Iraqi opposition, as was done in the Afghanistan war, and aggressively enforced and tried to expand the no-fly zones north and south, along with relatively minor things like destroying Saddam\'s presidential palaces, etc. ','2003-07-17 04:47:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4527,1,3775,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Unlikely. Even if you add up what\'s believed to be the total proceeds of organized crime, it\'s not 50% of the US economy.\r\n\r\nOn the other hand, even a 5-10% excision would set of a chain of events and secondary effects that you\'d absolutely notice in a painful way.','2003-07-17 04:51:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4528,1,3777,'67.225.186.64','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Roublen:\r\n\r\nTim Noah\'s article in slate is itself a lie, and an obvious lie.\r\n\r\nThe section in the SotU speech being talked about is not untrue; British intelligence still stands by the info. Though Noah claims that someone in the Bush administration \"admitted it was a lie\", that too is a falsehood.\r\n\r\nThis is very illustrative of the tactics on display here; the people who are claiming that Bush hyped and misrepresented information are themselves hyping and misrepresenting things.\r\n\r\nIt\'s easy for the likes of yourself and Nancy Pelosi to claim with airy handwaves that the Ba\'ath National Socialist regime could have been brought down for a lot less; neither she nor you offer a realistic plan and both had eight years in which to promote that and did not (either did not succeed, or did not make the attempt).\r\n\r\nI also seem to remember that when Rumsfeld et al studied precisely such a strategy in toppling Saddam mainly with S/F and internal rebel opposition groups, guys like yourself were all over them for over-optimism (and Rumsfeld et al eventually concluded the same, that it couldn\'t be done this way in Iraq, Saddam\'s grip was too strong and the internal opposition too weak after the ramifications of the \'91 uprising and its aftermath, as much as they would have loved to do it this time). But this is the \"Have-Our-Cake-And-Eat-It-Too\" argument that\'s been used; on the one hand ya\'ll were pointing, pre-war and durring the war, to estimates by Wes Clark and the like about how it wouldn\'t work without many more troops than we had in the area. Now you\'re all saying that it could have been done like a snap with much less. This is a \"heads I win, tales you lose\" position - your strategy is dictated not by sincere conviction but simply by whatever it takes to attack and undermine people. And you call yourselves the principled side in this.\r\n\r\nAs for your other comments, they are all incorrect and meritricious.\r\n\r\nMoving on;\r\n\r\nRe. Chuck: he\'s an obvious troll. I concur with any motion to ban him. It would declutter the threads a bit and you would lose nothing of interest content wise.\r\n\r\nBack to the debate:\r\n\r\nBad intel is a fact of life. In the real world, well I\'m going to use an example that is least likely to cause the usual suspects to launch into conspiracy theories (they\'re much more likely to give Stalin the benifit of the doubt than they would be with a Western leader): the Soviet Union had plenty of available information to conclude that Germany was about to launch an attack. The Russian army was caught by surprise. Cover up? Stalin wanted it to happen? No, just the usual - it happens.\r\n\r\nThe heroic IAEA, inspecting in North Korea to insure that the North Koreans weren\'t violating the \"agreed framework\" were completely clueless that they were. Deliberate sabotage on the UN\'s part? Deliberately letting them get away with it? Or a simple screw up?\r\n\r\nI think it\'s somewhat laughable that the same sort of people who worked hard to lower the Intel Budget over the years are now shocked, SHOCKED that our Intel services can goof. Not that, actually, this is an obvious goof (again, with the British still standing by the info and really nothing credible to refute it - guys going around Niger asking \"hey, you all aren\'t dealing with Iraq in violation of sanctions, are you\" and getting \"oh, no, not us guys\" answers and then concluding \"well, the intel is obviously bogus\" may be the Gold Standard of Intelligence Verification to some, but I\'m not that credulous, myself (some people reserve their skepticism *only* for the activities of the American government).\r\n\r\nJoe: I tend to agree; I\'ve posted to the effect (last fall some time, around the time of the election, when I was making my \"predictions\") that letting the districts be drawn as they are is a bad thing and called for a \"compact districts\" rule.\r\n\r\nI also think we shouldn\'t underestimate the effect of the Campaign Finance \"Reforms\" of the \'70s which had the (possibly intended, considering enacted by politicians) effect of empowering individual politicians and disempowering the parties (say what you will about the smoke-filled-room method, but those party hacks tended to try and weed out fringe characters better. Under the current system any nutjob simply self-finances with their loony constituency or out-of-pocket and the Democratic party will get stuck with a Springer Senate candidacy if he wants to run, whether they want it or not).\r\n\r\nHaving the parties more powerful - well, it may be too late to turn the page back now - with more influence than they currently have (they have some, I\'m not saying they don\'t, but the \'70s Campaign Finance laws tilted the balance away from parties and towards individual candidate giving and also towards interest group influence) would be better; it would give the mainstreams of the parties better control.\r\n\r\nAlso, I don\'t think they\'ve fixed this, but have you ever paid any attention to the rules the Democratic Party has for selecting Convention Delegates? I happen to not only have studied the process in Uni, but lived through it in \'92; in \'92 I went to the State Convention where Delegates for the National Democratic Convention were chosen, because I had worked as a vollenteer for the Brown campaign.\r\n\r\nThere are, of course, quotas (at least there were in \'92, and as I said I don\'t think they\'ve changed this. This was part of the rules enacted in \'68 by the DNC. Perhaps it was \'72, but IIRC it was \'68); racial quotas, gender quotas, and the like. Often others set asside for certain constituency groups (teachers are big). Given the composition of the State Convention, it ended up that only a few of the National Convention Delegate slots were really open to be voted on by us State Delegates. The rest were just plug \'em in (Ed Garvey, for years a Big Wheel in Wisconsin Democratic Politics and his name might be familiar to people who pay attention to politics - ran several times for State office and held other positions, failed to be a Delegate though he wanted to and is probably the kind of guy who should have been).\r\n\r\nWhat the system tends to do is hyperbalance things ideologically towards the Left of the Democratic party (not really by accident) rather than the mainstream. And who ends up, then, on the committees writing and revising the bylaws again? So their power is cemented election-cycle after election-cycle (and really an eye opener to what can happen when ethnic diversity trumps intellectual diversity, IMO.)\r\n\r\nIndeed, this is precisely the reason why the rules were written this way in the wake of \'68 as the New Left moved into the Democratic Party - they guarantee themselves disproportionate influence this way (which is not the same as control. They don\'t always get what they want, even in the Democratic party, especially since a good number of them are willing to listen to reason, from time to time, regarding compromise needed for electability). The \"Superdelegates\" that are sometimes decried within Democratic circles (not too loudly, usually, but there are grumbles every four years) as undemocratic were introduced to sort of counter-balance this (it being assumed at the time that the Democratic office holders would mitigate the excesses of the fringe types who otherwise filled out the delegations, and this has, by and large and for the most part, proven true and has been the means, quite often the last line of defense, against Really Stupid Self-Destructive Things). Any time someone out there seems like they might be picking up steam, the specter of the invocation of the Superdelegates to block such a nominee gets raised and then certain candidicies *do* tend to fade out a bit, in the interest of \"electability\" (it\'s kind of the invocation of the prospect of a split and open infighting which does compell compromise; no one really wants things to go this far when, after all, there are Republicans out there). So it\'s not all one-sided - I\'m not saying that. But I think the pendulum is swung too far, and the sorts of people that Roublen is an example of have too disproportionate an influence, and they cause Democratic and Left-Liberal politics to be psychotic and delusional (such as expressed in the Tim Noah piece he believes represents reality).\r\n\r\nThe National Republican Party\'s rules really have no analog to this.\r\n\r\n(Btw, I did not become a National Convention Delegate but I didn\'t strive to become one, either. I supported a guy - a youngish Union dude who\'s name I now, unfortunately, forget. He did get selected as a Delegate to the National Convention).','2003-07-17 04:54:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4529,1,3775,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','M. Simon, Joe -\r\n\r\nThis makes a much stronger case when you add to it the other forms of \'hot money\' - the billions looted by the kleptocracies in the Third World...\r\n\r\n...the impact of these dollars (and euros) on the pool of \'ready\' investments is doubtless pretty significant.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-17 05:05:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4534,1,3777,'67.225.186.64','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','I\'ll write something more lucid and less rambling as a post at my site when I\'ve had a chance to think on it more.\r\n\r\nI do think that the key is going to be a more assertively activist attitude on the part of mainstream Democrats, beyond just things like DLC (I mean grassroots types), contributing, showing up and making sure that the cheer-lines in speeches aren\'t just the ones that appeal to the Left (the people that make up audiences now), and that mainstream Democratic politicians don\'t have to try to appeal to the Left in order to garner a few crumbs of contributions/$$$ that fall off Dean\'s plate.\r\n\r\nIt might be too late in this election cycle for that. These things take time especially since it will take more than a handfull of people reacting in this way, it will take a real movement in the Democratic party that says \"hey, enough is enough. It\'s not enough to simply tell Republicans that we care about the future and security of this country, too. We have to tell that to the Left of our own part in no uncertain terms and wrest control of the internal political dialogue back from them.\"\r\n\r\nWhen the applause lines in Democratic speeches before Democratic audiences once again resemble the applause lines that Truman and Kennedy (John in \'60 - and Robert in \'60 as his brother\'s aide rather than Robert in \'68 as a candidate himself) garnered, then that will be a measure of success.\r\n\r\n(If one really looks at the sort of folks we\'re talking about fighting here, what they write and say among themselves and in their own publications, guys like Scheer and Tom Hayden and their like loathe Truman and dislike the real Kennedy - and so have constructed a mythological version of JFK; a doppleganger to replace the Cold Warrior that Kennedy was).','2003-07-17 06:27:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4535,1,3775,'207.170.32.128','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Small changes in demand can have a very large effect on percieved value. And it can compound in what is called a sell off.\r\n\r\nImagine if our current P/E went from >30 to around 6 or 7 (normal for a severe recession).\r\n\r\nThe Dow goes from 9,000 to about 2,000. \r\n\r\nOr think about the housing bubble. What happens if say 70% of the houses in America suddenly became worth significantly less than the mortgage? A 30% drop in house values would be devastating to the banking system not to mention the economy.\r\n\r\nThere is no doubt that our system left to its own devices would right itself over time. There would be significant pain. And of course the pain gets worse as the disease progresses.\r\n\r\n==============================================\r\n\r\nA.L. stopping the looting by the kleptocracies would be difficult. What we can do in that respect is to stop paying them ourselves unless paying them is cheaper than the alternative. The very easiest thing we can do against the hot money system is to end drug prohibition.\r\n\r\nAmerica long term seems to be headed in the direction of regulating consensual vices rather than prohibiting them. This is good. \r\n\r\nFaster please. :-)','2003-07-17 06:29:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4536,1,3775,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','We can\'t stop the looting, but we can make banking the proceeds a bit more difficult and costly...it should be a cornerstone of any liberal foreign policy (but the investment banker-donors/shareholders might get unhappy).\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-17 06:55:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4537,1,3779,'207.170.32.128','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Excellent.\r\n\r\nI had the good fortune to shake Harry T.\'s hand on a train to Independence, MO. I was headed to a Synagogue Youth Organization convention in KC, MO. Some one came through our car and said Harry was in a car a ways back shaking hands. So I went back (not many went) and shook Harry\'s hand. I think I was about 13 or 14 so it would have been around \'57 or so.\r\n\r\nIt was a thrill.\r\n','2003-07-17 06:55:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4538,1,3775,'69.34.23.196','Pete Stanley','hello@nospam.com','','Sorry, my reading comprehension needs a little work. :)','2003-07-17 07:37:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4539,1,3781,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','It\'s a good rhetorical point by Totten, conceded as a rhetorical device. It seems equally clear that not liking the way the CIA and MI6 \"connected the dots\" in this case is nothing close to a lie, and that presenting it as such is a much more real form of dishonesty.\r\n\r\nAs for the rest, if the Democrats actually adopted this approach, and people could believe it was done out of broad-based conviction (i.e. was really believed) and backed by plausible plans... yes, the Democratic Party would be an electoral threat again at the Presidential level.','2003-07-17 07:44:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4540,1,3781,'67.160.156.25','Michael J. Totten','mike.totten@netiq.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','I think you are underestimating Europe\'s cynical and deliberate uncooperativeness, especially that of France, which has nothing to do with Bush.\r\n\r\nA hawkish Democrat in the White House would likely run smack into a major reality-check. But then, Dick Gephardt at least seems to understand this already. He said so to Tim Russert.\r\n\r\nAside from that, I agree completely.','2003-07-17 07:44:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4541,1,3775,'24.155.27.12','M Howell','mhowell@grandecom.net','','The drug business is all cash, mainly dollars, and no one really knows how much of it is out there. Add to that the fact that 2/3 of the US paper currency is circulated outside this country. We found at least $1 billion in cash in piddly little Iraq. Just imagine the stashes of Saudi princes, Russian mobsters, the Cali cartel, and Chinese industrialists.\r\nEnding drug prohibition is fine but it won\'t flush out all this cash. What would really shake things up is a scrip change. The greenback dollar becomes a blueback dollar tommorrow and the first $10K is changed straight up. While we\'re at it we could recalibrate the currency to, say, circa 1960. The new blue dollar would be worth about five current green dollars. \r\nJust a thought.','2003-07-17 08:07:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4542,1,3778,'172.134.107.131','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','i dont know that we need to \"unite\". unity implies more difficulty than there need be. we do not need to convince the entire world to back one goal on iran. we simply need to *communicate* so as to foster the spread of information and the advancement of tangible physical support for the would-be revolutionaries in iran.\r\n\r\nobviously it will take a lot more than petitions, but every little bit does count. ','2003-07-17 08:17:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4543,1,3774,'138.88.142.183','Anticipatory Retaliation','BravoRomeoDelta@yahoo.com','http://AnticipatoryRetaliation.blogspot.com','Just a few notes (until I can dig up some airpower numbers for comparison).\r\n\r\nOne of the things China has been pursuing quite aggressively is its short and medium range ballistic missile force. With the addition of things like millimeter-wave terminal guidance, they can pose a significant threat to carriers and staging bases.\r\n\r\nThe post Gulf War I literature coming out of China focused on a couple of issues, among them were Iraq\'s unwillingness to strike at staging areas, depots and airfields, with their ballistic missile force. China\'s army group which handles their ballistic missile force tends to be very forward leaning and aggressive particularly with respect to their behavior with shorter range missiles. China has also noted that, at least during the first Gulf War, US forces had extremely high combat consumption.\r\n\r\nSo the question becomes less one of whether or not China\'s air force is powerful, per se, but rather one of whether or not China\'s plans to maximize its utility, particularly in the opening stages of a conflict, will pan out against American strategies to prevent same.','2003-07-17 09:24:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4544,1,3781,'65.139.34.174','Stryker','wrenchmonkey@sgtstryker.com','','One quick question: how would a nuclear device going off in NYC or DC finish our government and usher in a military dictatorship?','2003-07-17 09:26:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4545,1,3778,'24.24.10.233','David Kian','dkm@activistchat.com','http://www.activistchat.com','Balagan,\r\n\r\n\"Unity\" in the sense that the public or citizenry of the world would have more power and influence if we were to find more common ground with one another rather than being hard right or left, which many times results in paralyzing and muting the voices of change. But you are correct, we don\'t need unity in the absolute sense - because it is this healthy balance of differing views and opinions that makes way for evolution.\r\n\r\nAnd you are right - communication is essential.. I\'m a firm believer that an effective conveyer of ideas does a lot of GOOD!\r\n\r\nbest -\r\ndk','2003-07-17 09:47:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4546,1,3775,'207.170.32.128','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','M. Howell,\r\n\r\nIt is not necessary to flush out all the cash. Just stopping the new inflows would put a serious crimp in the hot money system within 6 months. \r\n\r\nActually we don\'t really want the money back. It represents the fact that we got stuff and they got paper. Making a lot of mattress money come back all at once is not a good idea.\r\n\r\nWe must not forget too that the #1 recipient of hot money in terms of American investment in the 60s and 70s was Silicon Valley and the software industries. Hot money gave us a real head (pun intended) start.','2003-07-17 11:32:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4547,1,3777,'216.66.108.130','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Could it be that the Democratic Party, like the addict, has to hit rock bottom before admitting the problem, and clawing its way out of the hole?\r\n\r\nIf this is the case, where is the bottom? I don\'t think they have reached it yet.\r\n\r\nPS-The comments and articles on this site are TOO GOOD!!! I\'m going to be late for work this AM because I got sucked into reading all the comments!!\r\n\r\nSeriously, its worth being a little late for the insights found here, and I\'ll keep coming back.','2003-07-17 12:06:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL);
INSERT INTO `mt_comment` VALUES (4548,1,3781,'216.190.16.186','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','This is from Ralph Peters latest column:\r\n\r\n\"This column does not mean to idolize the president. Indeed, many of his domestic policies give cause for serious concern, from his slight of hand on environmental issues, through his questionable respect for women\'s rights, to his ideologically driven, ill-timed tax cuts. But his foreign policy is courageous, effective and vital. \r\n\r\nThe current flock of interchangeable Democratic presidential aspirants attack the president\'s strengths, while failing to appreciate his weaknesses. The military equivalent would be a frontal attack across an open field against dug-in machine guns and artillery. \r\n\r\nInstead of reciting their litany of imaginary failures overseas, can\'t a single Democratic presidential hopeful admit that the potential danger to the U.S. from hate-intoxicated terrorists could one day cause an even greater loss of American lives than did our Civil War?\" \r\n\r\n\r\nThe answer here is simple. Most Democrats, especially Democrats with money, don\'t believe war exists. They cannot get their minds around the concept. \r\n\r\nLike anyone else in the grip of a fantasy ideology. They would rather kill the messenger of reality (Bush) than change their minds.\r\n','2003-07-17 12:45:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4549,1,3781,'12.207.158.155','mike van winkle','editor@chicagoreport.net','http://www.chicagoreport.net','Furthermore, very few americans actually believe the Iraq war is justified solely on the existence of WMD. The dems have to be careful not to make their attacks on Bush appear to be attacks on the War itself ... which still seems to have pretty good support, regardless of the WMD \"scandal\".\r\n\r\nAlso, it is pretty risky to base your opposition on one piece of empirical evidence because, if something is found, there goes your whole campaign. \r\n\r\n','2003-07-17 12:52:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4550,1,3777,'206.190.18.132','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','I like Pelto. \r\n\r\nHe has a certain military mindset I can relate to. Bigoted no doubt. But in an American way. ie. unless ordered to he will not kill you for it.\r\n\r\nI might add re: AL\'s son. Should he be Naval minded have him go nuke. You get 2 3/4 years of college in 1 year. If he is up for it an ET nuke (RO). Their watch stations are generally air conditioned. Crew\'s quarters buff as well. And still you are a part of a fighting ship. \r\n\r\nI suppose Pelto wouldn\'t approve of the soft life but it has it\'s mental compensations.','2003-07-17 13:14:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4551,1,3777,'206.190.18.132','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Iraq is the key to Iran, Syria, Saudi. Military like real estate is all about location. If Iraq was just a battle in a war and not the war then it was very necessary. For two reasons:\r\n\r\n1. Saddam\r\n2. Location\r\n\r\nOf course in the current war you can\'t say #2 out loud so you invent other plausable but less essential reasons:\r\n\r\na. Al Queda\r\nb. WMD\r\nc. terrorism \r\nd. support of Arafat\r\netc.\r\n\r\nSome more valid than others but the real deal is #2.','2003-07-17 13:27:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4552,1,3779,'207.124.141.189','A Berman','apberman@yahoo.com','','No, while I appreciate the points, you\'re letting him off too easily.\r\n\r\nThe Jews had just lost 2/3rds of their European population to Hitler with the acquiesence of much of Christian Europe. In context, the global perspective should have been a lot closer to the Jewish perspective. \r\n\r\nAdditionally, I\'m not sure about the Finns or Yugoslavs, but I\'m pretty sure that the Jews were well justified in not giving much thought to the Estonians, Latvians, Poles, or Greeks of that era.\r\n','2003-07-17 14:24:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4553,1,3778,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','I think \"UNITE\" was especially well-chosen. Spend some time with the Iranian community, and you\'ll listen to the stories about the division between monarchists and stidents, and from this political faction to that. The movement needs unity around the necessity of the mullahs\' removal, and it needs support from outside that says \"we\'re with you\".\r\n\r\nIn one word: unity.','2003-07-17 14:49:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4554,1,3781,'67.225.186.243','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Just one direct comment atm (I\'m pretty exhausted and really should take a break, actually. Sleep - well, I\'m getting to work now, so no sleep; sorry, babbling again), where you wrote:\r\n\r\n\"Bush has no \'grand plan\' that he\'s shared with us or our allies on how we deal with the real issues of the enemies of America and the West. We do, and here it is\'\"\r\n\r\nThe problem with this, which is something oft raised by those who don\'t like government secrecy, too, is that any strategy that is publically anounced like this is also shared with our enemies.\r\n\r\nLets say the Democrats (or Bush) have a grand plan and it includes \"thump the Saudis around the head and chest at the earliest opportunity\". Would it be really wise to announce that, to have anounced it from the start (as some wanted to do) in no uncertain terms (the way you propose), and let the Saudis know exactly what is in store for them (the same goes for other examples but I\'m reaching for the easy and obvious one because I\'m too tired to go for some of the others)? Have the Saudis then react?\r\n\r\nSure, they may suspect (but are given re-assurances \"oh, no, we\'re not out to get you in the end. Really, we\'re still best of friends. Remember all those times my dad had ya\'ll over for dinners and chatting and charades? We love you guys! Really. Lov ya babe, lets do lunch\") but can\'t be sure and so they are kept a bit off balance.\r\n\r\nThis goes right down the line. It does make it a lot harder, perhaps, do draw stark contrasts and sure is frustrating in domestic political debates; but it has its rationales. Remember the saying that \"diplomacy is the art of saying \'nice doggie\' while you reach for a stick.\" That also means you can\'t say in an asside to your buddy \"Hey, watch me really cream the hell out of this dog.\" Unless you want to get bit.','2003-07-17 15:17:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4555,1,3781,'67.225.186.243','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','(Well, I suppose you could tell your buddy that if it was a *dog*. Some dogs at least. Not so much mine - she\'d get you in a heartbeat).\r\n\r\nBtw, most of the Democratic Presidentian candidates give pretty clear indications, though, that they don\'t even percieve the larger context of the war (or that if they do, they are opposed to it), so of course they don\'t have a strategy for fighting it. That\'s the real problem with them.','2003-07-17 15:25:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4556,1,3781,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','To all-\r\nPlease consider this:\r\n\r\n(vast oversimplification ahead)\r\n\r\nSaddam and Osama are found next week, the Iranian theocracy is overthrown during September and Saudi Arabia finds and truly breaks the financing arm of al-Qaeda.\r\n\r\nLots of assumption here, but the possibilities exist.\r\n\r\nPossible result: Far less funding for terrorist organizations\r\n\r\nDemand for WMD by terrorist orgs. dries up.\r\n\r\nWho can NK sell their bombs to?\r\n\r\nIs President Bush pursuing the demand for WMDs side of the equation with the war against Saddam, and the acquisition of a base of operations in the heart of the Middle East? Especially since the supply side problem (at this time) has no options that don\'t include destruction of Seoul.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-07-17 15:30:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4557,1,3781,'67.225.186.243','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','(That\'s why the *best* of the Democratic candidates keep making insipid distinctions between the \"war on terrorism\" and the other measures that are \"a distraction from homeland security and providing grief councilors to the family members of the victims of the next attack and medical care to the survivors\"). The best of them simply haven\'t got a clue regarding the type of thing you\'re talking about - they don\'t even know they\'re missing a \"grand plan\" because they don\'t percieve the situation that such a plan would be *for* in the first place. As for the worst of them, I\'ve said enough about that lot for now already.','2003-07-17 15:35:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4558,1,3775,'68.65.121.225','Nick','Symblized@aol.com','http://www.agonist.org','Quite an interesting discussion and post here guys. Unfortunately I have not much to add here but I wanted to say that this is actually an issue that is not publicized by the news media nearly enough, and I am glad to see discussion of it whenever and whereever.','2003-07-17 15:56:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4559,1,3779,'66.59.138.198','Jim','jimmylevendia@hotmail.com','','I think, Mr. Berman, that you haven\'t gotten the point.\r\nThe point being, that in spite of his exasperation, Truman went ahead and did the right thing. May I also point out that the language in your own post is pretty arrogant? \"you\'re letting him off too easily\", indeed. Would you have preferred someone who spoke very nobly yet did not take the action that Truman did? Let\'s be frank: If Truman and others like him had a perspective closer to yours (to the one you percieve the \"Jewish perspective\" to be) there would not have been a State of Israel. After all, how would its founding have served the interest of the US and the West? The type of ethnocentism you advocate is a viable survival strategy only if others (ie the Americans) do NOT practice it. ','2003-07-17 16:06:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4560,1,3628,'12.10.219.45','Umbriel','umbriel@voicenet.com','','Just to further the Rommel digression... As Terry notes, Rommel was commander of the Army Group in Northern France at the time of D-Day, with von Rundstedt overall Wehrmacht commander in the West. This meant that, short of direct intervention by Hitler, von Rundstedt controlled the frontal level strategic reserves, and did indeed keep them centralized over Rommel\'s objections. Rommel, contrary to von Rundstedt\'s strategic directives, crept his own Army Group\'s assets progressively closer to the coast. By D-Day, 21st Panzer was southeast of Caen, within a dozen miles or so of the British landings. 12th SS Panzer was a bit further east, but still quick to respond. In the end, Allied airpower was so smothering that even these divisions couldn\'t muster effective counterattacks, though they did keep the British from breaking out of the beachhead. Rommel\'s plan at least recognized the air superiority problem, but I have doubts that there was any real solution available to the Germans.\r\n\r\nTrent\'s comments on strategic missile operability are quite fascinating. I had always suspected that, given that they function entirely as bluff weapons anyway, it made little sense to spend much money and effort on making strategic missiles actually work. I don\'t know if any authors of post-holocaust fiction ever addressed the possibility that major population centers might have survived an all-out nuclear exchange intact, just due to the \"dud rate\". The fate of civilization would be a much... noisier... story in such a case...','2003-07-17 16:53:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4561,1,3781,'165.224.148.243','Omnibus Bill','omnbsbll@aol.com','','MI-6 says that it has independent information proving Iraqi efforts to buy uranium prior to the Wilson trip to Niger, and prior to the discovery of the forged documents. \r\n\r\nIf Bush (and Brit intel) are lying about Niger and Iraq and uranium, what was that high level Iraqi trade delegation doing there in \'99?\r\n\r\nAccording to the CIA factbook, Niger features: \r\n\r\nReligions: Muslim 80%, remainder indigenous beliefs and Christians \r\n\r\nExports - commodities: uranium ore 65%, livestock products, cowpeas, onions (1998 est.) \r\n\r\nI\'m sure they could have been there buying cowpeas... ','2003-07-17 17:00:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4562,1,3774,'12.18.76.9','Scott','f1b0nacc1@msn.com','','The chinese have been big buyers of missile technology for some time now, and indeed their military journals are full of discussions as to how such systems would be quite useful against western assets (specifically carriers, about which the chinese have an obsession that exceeds even that of the Soviets during the height of the cold war). Unfortunately, ballistic missiles tend to be very poor weapons to use against carriers, as these are moving targets, which degrade the effect of even terminally guided ballistic systems. Millimeter wave systems are severely impacted by the at-sea environment, and can be interfered with by countermeasures currently used on most naval vessels. This isn\'t to say that there aren\'t other methods of using ballistic missiles in an anti-carrier role, but countermeasures do exist, and the chinese are nowhere near the point of being able to make serious use of such weapons at this time.\r\n\r\nWhere they ARE more dangerous is in the anti-airfield/staging area/port role, and the chinese have gone to great lengths to prepare for this. Their extensive use of short-range systems (perfect for bombarding Taiwanese airfields, AA sites, and other military bases, practically worthless for everything else) suggests that any potential conflict would begin with a sustained bombardment of missiles, followed by short, sharp airstrikes from the relatively short-legged air force. Given the design of their missile systems, the technological limitations of both their missiles and aircraft, and the nature of the sort of war that they might fight, there is simply no other possible explanation for the pattern of missile deployments in the southern and south-eastern military districts.\r\n\r\nShort of the pages of hyperventilated technothrillers, it is extremely unlikely that the Chinese will pose a serious threat to carriers with either their land-based missiles or aircraft in the short- to mid-term.','2003-07-17 17:15:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4563,1,3774,'216.190.135.189','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','China is a bigger, more socially cohesive, Indonesia with an effective secret police and nukes.','2003-07-17 18:05:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4564,1,3779,'207.124.141.189','A Berman','apberman@yahoo.com','','You misunderstand me on several points. First, just because someone does the right thing doesn\'t make them immune from criticism. I happen to think very highly of Harry Truman-- why does that make me unable to point out that something he did or said was wrong?\r\n\r\nAs far as ethnocentrism, may I point out that defending against ethnocentrism is not the same as ethnocentrism? The Jews were the primary victims of ethnocentrism in Europe during WWII and then to come in afterwards and say \"Let\'s just treat everyone exactly the same\" is trying to create a false equivalence where there was none whatsoever. An obligation was incurred and, to a large extent was indeed recognized by Truman, though not by Europe. The obligation should have extended to the satisfactory disposition of the Exodus ship and Truman should have recognized it.\r\n','2003-07-17 18:48:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4565,1,3781,'128.183.82.153','Fredrik Nyman','fredriknyman@adelphia.net','','AL --\r\n\r\nYou\'re completely right about what the D\'s should be saying.\r\n\r\nThe question is: can they say such things and be believed?\r\n\r\nConsider, if you will, John Kerry. Yesterday, Chris Matthews (or was it Tony Snow?) let him talk at length about \"intelligence gap\", \"homeland security gap\" and such.\r\n\r\nWatching him, he made a pretty good impression; I found myself thinking \"yes, good point, this is exactly right\". John Kerry was absolutely right in emphasizing these points; there are major problems both with our intelligence and with the DHS, and those problems need attention.\r\n\r\nSo what is the problem here? John Kerry. Specifically, his own record. He has repeatedly voted to slash intelligence funding, and as I recall, he was holding up the creation of the DHS by fighting for union featherbedding rules. \r\n\r\nIt is the same thing with most of the other D presidential candidates; they can talk Scoop Jackson all they want, but as long as their records say Jimmy Carter and George McGovern, it seems unlikely voters will be deceived.\r\n\r\nSo I\'m with Trent here; the D\'s are dead and damned on national security, and will remain so until their words and their voting record aren\'t opposites. ','2003-07-17 19:15:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4566,1,3443,'62.56.189.214','tonny','tonny_koffi@nowhere.fr','','[deleted spam from now-banned IP]\r\n\r\nThanks for the catch, Phil.','2003-07-17 19:35:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4573,1,3779,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','He\'s not talking about avarice, Mr. Laskin - you read that in. He\'s talking about power, and clearly doing so in a universal context.\r\n\r\n\"But there’s something indisputably noisome about his likening of Jewish avarice—a classic anti-semitic trope if ever there was one—to Hitler’s concentration camps and Stalin’s gulags.\"','2003-07-17 22:15:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4574,1,3779,'68.96.5.128','Ed Remler','sagredo@hotmail.com','','This incident demonstrates why\'anti-semitic\' is a label that should not be applied to any and every negative opinion concerning Jews. Nearly everyone, in my experience, has negative opinions about every distinguishable social group, and even Jews have negative opinions about Jews. Negative opinions are especially to be expected when that group is perceived as being arrogant, is preternaturally successful (when given the chance to flourish), and has so many positive attributes (to preserve \'balance\'). \r\n\r\nThe transition from this to true, virulent, anti-semitism, is like the transition from a cold to pneumonia--a transition that I do not feel able to explain, although, of course, there are many reasons that can be proposed.','2003-07-17 22:31:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4575,1,3774,'12.18.76.9','Scott','f1b0nacc1@msn.com','','I wonder about whether China is really all that socially cohesive. It has a massive economic and cultural divide brewing between the \'rich\' coastal regions and the improverished heartland, its government has very very little \'street cred\' beyond the areas in which it has deployed security forces, and the gerontocracy running the show strikes me as almost hopelessly out of touch...\r\n\r\nOn the other hand, if you are comparing it solely to Indonesia..point taken...\r\n\r\nScott','2003-07-17 22:34:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4581,1,3774,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','Chinese airpower is a contradiction in terms. It\'s a joke. The chief function of the PLAAF is the same as X-Soviet industry - turning good raw materials into useless crap. Its real purpose is traditional domestic politics - transfer of income and power from some domestic groups to other domestic groups.','2003-07-18 00:30:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4587,1,2998,'130.130.37.6','samuel','muel_sydney@msn.com','','c\'mon dude(s) ... i need your help ... i\'m doing research about space exploration ...\r\nwhat is(are) the benefit(s)of space exploration ??\r\nanswer me as soon as possible (if u could , give the url or where did u get the information) \r\nthanks so much ...\r\n=)','2003-07-18 00:54:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4590,1,3782,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','You didn\'t get taken to the woodshed because it wasn\'t necessary to your argument. The idea that a plan might be developed was implicit. I\'m surprised you didn\'t get taken to the woodshed for saying Bush has no strategy.\r\n\r\nThe idea that the plan you describe could be accepted by the Democrat Party in its current state is also implicit, though another word beginning with \"im-\" also comes to mind here.','2003-07-18 08:22:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4591,1,3783,'64.110.90.2','klaatu','sansevero@terra.com','','Yes, Tony\'s the man. All the more so because he probably wouldn\'t be in favor of gutting the federal wage-and-hour laws to make them more \"flexible\" for corporations.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-18 10:57:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4589,1,3775,'66.130.54.126','EarlW','earlwer@yahoo.com','http://www.spe-edi.com','You are overlooking an important detail.\r\n\r\nThe money used to purchase drugs (whatever it is), had to come from the pockets of millions of consumers.\r\n\r\nEnding the war on drugs will drastically lower the price, since there will no longer be any risk in selling them.\r\n\r\nThe millions of drug consumers will now have additional money for cars, better clothes, homes, whatever.\r\n\r\nhttp://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html','2003-07-18 05:18:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4579,1,3781,'66.47.140.59','Sean','goodlookingui@earthlink.net','','Michael:\r\n\r\nThe only thing I disagree with you is your assertion that \"Bush has no \'grand plan\' on how to deal with the enemies in America or the West\" (or were you just asserting that Democrats should assert that?)\r\n\r\nBush has a plan, its the \"Bush Doctrine\", and it contains the very plausable notion that nation states that support terrorism will be dealt with in the same manner as the terrorists themselves. Bush\'s problem on national security is that he has been inconsistent in applying his \"grand plan\" -- by treating Saudi Arabia with kid gloves and by his erratic pronouncements in Iran (veering between endorsement of pro-democracy protestors and the status-quo Machiavelianism of Colin Powell). But he HAS a plan, and (I suspect) it is one most voters agree with.\r\n\r\nOther than that, great post.\r\n\r\nA successful opposition strategy would be to support the \"Bush Doctrine\" wholeheartedly (even if they tweak it enough to allow themselves to call it the \"Libermann doctrine\" or whatever), and point out the areas in which Bush\'s actions have failed to meet with his rhetoric. Said strategy was effective in 1952 (where Eisenhower essentially ratified the \"Truman Doctrine\" even as he hinted he would do a better job resolving the conflict in Korea). ','2003-07-17 23:14:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4567,1,3744,'208.37.156.192','Jack','none@test.org','','Re. the article about N. Korean society, here is another article I\'ve found interesting. It\'s an account of a visit to N. Korea in 1998.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.simonbone.com/myohyang.html','2003-07-17 19:43:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4568,1,3744,'64.65.206.96','Chuck','chuck@simmins.org','http://blog.simmins.org','I\'ve posted a little bit of info about the post-WWII occupation of Germany and the attacks that occurred through 1947. I\'ve titled it \"Quagmire!\"','2003-07-17 20:14:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4569,1,3779,'66.59.138.198','Jim','jimmylevendia@hotmail.com','','Thanks for responding, Mr. Berman. I think I see your point. ','2003-07-17 20:35:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4570,1,3779,'67.93.251.120','J Laksin','jlaksin@hotmail.com','','It’s all semantics though, isn’t it? You don’t want to call Truman’s entry anti-semitic? Fine. But there’s something indisputably noisome about his likening of Jewish avarice—a classic anti-semitic trope if ever there was one—to Hitler’s concentration camps and Stalin’s gulags. Justifying this kind of equivalency, Mr. Katzman, is an intellectually irresponsible exercise. Furthermore: Indeed, some of Truman’s best friends were jewish. Eddie Jacobson is a good example, though their relationship is hardly the enlightened story of bigotry overcome. Jacobson was forever banned from the home of Truman’s mother as well as the home of his in-laws because neither could abide Jews, a condition Truman went along with rather willingly. Want more feel-good detail? Here’s a quote from a bereaved Jacobson, after he met with considerable hostility for trading on his friendship with the president to plead for his support on the matter of Israel: “My dear friend, the president,” Jacobson remembered of Truman’s coldness, “was at that moment as close to being an anti-Semite as any man could possibly be.” It’s in the terrific “Truman,” David McCullough’s 1992 biography. Do research it. As for an adequate response from the media, it’s on the way. ','2003-07-17 21:05:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4571,1,3779,'207.124.141.189','A Berman','apberman@yahoo.com','','You\'re welcome, Jim. I confess I should have kept my criticism of Truman in context of my larger appreciation for him and that did not come out in my first post.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-17 21:24:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4572,1,3443,'216.66.108.130','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Wow!! A spam comment!! What will they think of next??','2003-07-17 21:24:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4580,1,3779,'66.47.140.59','Sean','goodlookingui@earthlink.net','','Sorry, but I\'m not buying the defense. Truman\'s comments were the comments of a bigot. Period.\r\n\r\nThe real story is not whether or not Truman was a bigot, but whether he was able to rise above his bigotry and do the right thing when need be. On that level Truman acquitted himself admirably, and that would probably be the best way to defend him from his asinine comments.','2003-07-18 00:09:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4592,1,3782,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','While we\'re at it, here are a few more suggestions for Democrat Party issues. \r\n\r\nAnd nice going Conyers, you dork. Way to help with the youth vote. We\'ll just add it to the pile along with your long \"I hate America\" liability file.','2003-07-18 11:24:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4593,1,3782,'172.163.106.35','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','I don\'t think Liberia is just a humanitarian intervention at all. Taylor clearly has links to Al Qaeda. I think we\'ll eventually see the movement of American troops into bases in Northern Africa and Liberia is the first step toward that goal. But I do think we will try to intervene under and international mandate. I suspect minus another attack at home, we\'ll be very well behaved with regard to the UN for a while.','2003-07-18 15:48:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4594,1,3783,'67.225.186.152','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','I totally blogged the entire speech, too, as soon as I could. I listened to it on the radio.\r\n\r\nI had pretty much the same reaction as you did.\r\n\r\nI hope Armed Liberal heard the speech, because this is the sort of thing he\'s been wanting. It also shows that a statesman *can* buck the sort of pressures he points to affecting Democratic politicians. Blair has been under similar ones (guys like Chretien have followed the same path as guys like Kerry, catering to those forces where Blair confronts them and does what is right).','2003-07-18 15:51:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4595,1,3783,'62.78.148.137','JH','jussimhamalainen@luukku.com','','Great speech,but... the word from England is that Tony is a dead man walking.Check out this story and link from Samizdata.The knives are out,indeed.Et tu,Brutus?','2003-07-18 15:53:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4596,1,3690,'194.66.208.11','John Smith','john.smith@google.com','http://fdddddddddddd','The US/UK joint 2004 manifesto:\r\n\r\n WAR IS PEACE\r\n FREEDOM IS SLAVERY\r\n IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH\r\n\r\n','2003-07-18 16:15:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4597,1,3783,'62.78.148.137','JH','jussimhamalainen@luukku.com','','Update:Iain Murray thinks the end could be near.','2003-07-18 16:18:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4598,1,3783,'128.183.82.153','Fredrik Nyman','fredriknyman@adelphia.net','','Bush\'s remarks yesterday also deserve some attention. \r\n\r\nTwo quotes in particular stood out:\r\n\r\n\"As long as I hold this office I will never risk the lives of American citizens by assuming the goodwill of dangerous enemies\"\r\n
and\r\n\r\n\"Our enemies are looking for signs of hesitation. They\'re looking for signs of weakness. They will find none.\" \r\n
\r\n\r\nCompare and contrast these statements to what the D presidential candidates are saying, especially the past week regarding the yellowcake stuff.\r\n\r\nBeware: harsh commentary to follow:\r\n\r\nBy and large, the D\'s are perfectly willing to extend the benefit of doubt to Saddam Hussein and any other enemy of America, while attributing anything President Bush says and does to malice.\r\n\r\nThe President is half right: America\'s enemies aren\'t going to find signs of weakness and hesistation in him. But they will find plenty of it among the D\'s.\r\n\r\nMany, many D\'s -- not just activists, but members of congress, presidential candidates, and former presidents -- have actively sought to undermine President Bush, and now they seek to delegitimize the battle of Iraq. \r\n\r\nThis is wrong. They are aiding and comforting our enemies.\r\n','2003-07-18 17:16:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4599,1,3783,'80.192.14.241','George Junior','georgejunior@blueyonder.co.uk','http://www.georgejunior.blogspot.com/','As an American living in England I was wondering what the folks back home would make of Blair\'s speech. Seems to me the man has vision, delivery and great speechwriters. \r\n\r\nAdmittedly, a lot of people here in England would like him to tone down the sincerity thing a notch or two but I think it\'s one of his greatest strengths.\r\n\r\nThere’s no doubt that Blair is having a tough time at home but as for the knives being out, they\'ve been out for a long time and seem dulled by ill-use. It remains to be seen what damage the “dodgy dossier” issue will do to him but from what I can see (as a foreign observer) he’s a long way from being dead in the water.\r\n','2003-07-18 17:16:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4600,1,3783,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Glad to hear it. And something tells me that one of the principal speechwriters on this one may have been a guy named Blair. Either that, or he has a speechwriter who knows him almost telepathically well.','2003-07-18 17:44:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4601,1,3782,'67.225.186.152','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Well, I didn\'t take *you* \"to the woodshed\" over it because I think I have a fairly reasonable \"feel\" for what your \"Grand Strategy\" would look like (in other words, unlike the \"pack of hyenas\", I credited you with having one based on what I could both see and infer from your earlier writings); your post is pretty much what I figured it would look like.\r\n\r\nMore in a sort of response over on my own blog.','2003-07-18 18:07:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4602,1,3775,'209.73.194.101','Joseph Hertzlinger','jhertzli@ix.netcom.com','http://hertzlinger.blogspot.com','Wasn\'t the era of the greatest growth in the mind-altering chemical market (late \'60s to early \'80s) also an era with a stagnant stock market?\r\n\r\nOn the other hand, it was also a period with rising commodity prices. Maybe the drug dealers bought gold and oil instead of stocks.\r\n','2003-07-18 19:09:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4603,1,3767,'80.75.15.35','kl.kl','hklhl@jnkj.cs','http://cscsc','you yourseif are killer\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-07-18 20:21:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4608,1,3780,'209.103.239.3','Fred B oness','fboness@excel.net','','See also :\r\n\r\nhttp://www.workingwounded.com\r\n\r\nMore than just venting.','2003-07-18 23:18:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4609,1,3744,'24.167.222.39','LJ','rjohnston@wi.rr.com','','RE: Cuba jamming pro-American broadcasts in Iran.\r\n\r\nGlobal Security has put up in-depth info on the Cuban facility responsible for the jamming.','2003-07-18 23:53:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4610,1,3773,'12.253.20.38','scott h.','scott_helg@yahoo.com','','The We\'re Still At War link seems to have gone sour. This should work. http://www.nerra.com/broadsword/tomes/000100.html','2003-07-19 01:46:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4611,1,3773,'12.253.20.38','scott h.','scott_helg@yahoo.com','','And it looks like the other 2 links are screwed up to. I\'ll leave it to someone else to figure those out. (The \"follow-up\" link goes to the \"Antisemitism via Proxy\" post)','2003-07-19 01:49:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4607,1,3784,'67.225.186.186','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','I didn\'t know Land of Hope and Glory was sung in Canada. It\'s one of my British friend\'s favorites (even though he\'s a convinced atheist).\r\n\r\nSee also this post of his on the Blair speech.\r\n\r\n(Originally mis-Posted this comment under the \"I Work With Fools\" post by mistake).','2003-07-18 20:27:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4612,1,3783,'18.95.7.210','Catfish and Cod','catfishncod@yahoo.com','http://catfishncod.blogspot.com/2003_07_01_catfishncod_archive.html#105857837088897628','Tony Blair has a vision of the world, a vision that Democrats and Republicans alike (but especially Democrats) would do well to embrace. Moreover, he passionately attacked all the poisonous ideologies (Unilateral, Multipolar, Isolationist, Theocratic) that are threatening to embroil the world in further war.\r\n\r\nWhy is it that a British Prime Minister can articulate a better policy for America than America\'s own leaders?\r\n\r\nWith such ideas as Winds of Change and Armed Liberal have been kicking about, perhaps a new policy can be shaped that is a credible Democratic alternative to President Bush\'s Unilateral policy. Such a policy is absolutely necessary to the election.','2003-07-19 02:30:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4613,1,3773,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','He moved his server from his desktop to a real host, and that broke all the numbering. Sir Banagor explains it all on the new blog location at Bloghosts.com. I\'ve gone to the new blog and tried to fix the links, hope it works now.','2003-07-19 04:27:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4614,1,3783,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','No, C&C, it\'s utterly unnecessary to the 2004 election. It\'s absolutely necessary, however, if one is taking a long-term civilizational view. \r\n\r\nUnlike Thatcher before him, however, the activists in the embers of a crippled Democratic Party don\'t have the same head start the neocons had. Thatcher arrived on the scene just as they were getting up serious steam. The liberal hawks are just beginning to start their engine. \r\n\r\nSo Tony starts the wheels in motion, and provides an example and a moral-intellectual template. That is enoumously important right now, because they lack these things. The changes required in the Democratic Party will not be small, and will almost certainly require nearly a decade to work themselves out. Even that would be fast, actually.','2003-07-19 04:36:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4615,1,3774,'68.64.170.189','Emery S. Almasy','ealmasy@hotmail.com','','China\'s reliance on tactical ballistic misisles may well be the greatest techno-strategic blunder of this century [in case you are wondering, the \"battlecruiser\" class warship was the #1 useless money-pit of the 20th Century].\r\n\r\nThe lumbering IRBM and its antiquated cruise missile cousins [anything that flies a simple, predictable course] are on the verge of becoming totally obsolete. \r\n\r\nNot only has ABM technology improved [not just Patriot-3 , but SM-3 and the Israeli \'Arrow\'], but Tactical High-Enegy lasers are currently knocking down 155mm artillery shells in flight. They are made of INCH thick steel and they SPIN, but they explode in flight anyway. The F-35 JSF has the power and structural hardpoints to mount a Plasma Cannon! That R&D program was mentioned in \'open sources\' 4 months ago.\r\n\r\nChina\'s [and North Korea\'s] missile forces have less than a decade to consume vital resources before they are rendered effectively useless. \r\nThey will have as much impact on reality as the Kaiser\'s Imperial German Navy did on WWI - formidable in appearance but nothing of any consequence once the shooting starts. And to make matters worse, the Chinese are not likely to realise this because of the institutional bias toward a fielded weapon system - they simply will not be able to let go of their missile force once they build it.\r\n\r\nBTW, www.strategypage.com has the original \"Asymetric Warfare\" article written by two PLA officers. I saw nothing more than wishful thinking wrapped in post-marxist double-speak. Judge for yourself.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-19 08:53:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4616,1,3361,'217.1.131.118','_bastian_','sebastian.k2@gmx.de','','First of all I\'m happy to see that you do make a difference between the german people and the german government, as we make the same difference for the usa.\r\n\r\nIn my opinion, and most of germany thinks the same, americans are great people. I think very highly of the men and women i met during my stays in the us. \r\n\r\nBut especially because of my experiences with the us people I dont understand how they can support a president who is sending american people to die for oil or what ever. As everyone can see (maby not in the us media for it isn\'t free anymore) this war was not to fight any threat (no wmd, terrorists threat rose, ...) to the us or its people. The support for mr. bush is still up even though he lied to all of you to trick you into believeing you are not save. the su still supports him even though your country has (due to mr bushs politics) the highest debst of all times. The high spendings for military (especially for wmd, and large warfare) are supported even though the al quaida terrorists were only armed with knives. \r\n\r\n\r\nHow can you ask for not buying any german product just becaus the german government dosen\'t wont to fight the same war yours did. Don\'t you belive in free speech? dont\' you think that everybody has the right to do what he thinks is best for himselve? as your post already says, german people supported the us and will continue to do so, but we will also continue to critisize the us if they are doing something wrong!','2003-07-19 12:26:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4617,1,3576,'12.151.162.21','Adel Alghamdi','adel_alghamdi@hotmail.com','','I disagree...tribal ties have nothing to do with allowing the network to operate so securely. It only means that more Al-Ghamdi\'s are willing to be part of the network and participate in its activities. Al-Qaeda operates so securely because it is divided into small groups where each group is isolated from the others.\r\n\r\nTribal ties mean nothing to someone who gives up his life to be part of Al-Qaeda. Protecting and securing the network has nothing to do with how many Al-Ghamdi\'s in the network. \r\n\r\nIT IS ALL ABOUT THE CAUSE NOT TRIBAL TIES.\r\n','2003-07-19 12:54:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4618,1,3775,'172.139.104.184','WF','bromhead79@yahoo.de','','EarlW is quite right. The other question: Where is that trillion dollars ultimately coming from? How many drug users are financing their habit through more or less legal work, how many through welfare payments, how many through crime? It is wrong to assume the money would not have better uses.\r\n\r\nIf a drug user steals my bike in order to pay for the habit, I am a few hundred bucks poorer and will have less money to consume or save. If the money is then washed through inefficient investments, how exactly does it support the economy? This is about as beneficial as a tax raised by an especially corrupt and inept government. And that´s before we look at all the additional problems pointed out by Ralf Goergens and other commenters.','2003-07-19 14:23:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4619,1,3576,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','That\'s an interesting and valuable perspective. Thanks.','2003-07-19 14:24:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4620,1,3779,'64.81.55.163','Banagor','banagor@nerra.com','http://www.nerra.com/broadsword','I honestly can\'t say. I\'m very divided, and I\'ll tell you why:\r\n\r\nTruman didn\'t make entries into anything for posterity\'s sake. Remember that huge blowout memoirs on sale every year were not the trend at the time, nor was he a person to think that his private thoughts would be scrutinized for every single detail decades after his death.\r\n\r\nI think that he may just have been feeling the pressure very badly at that point, might have been having an incredibly bad day (still dealing with all of a broken Europe), and trying to deal with a whole bunch of issues at home as well.\r\n\r\nTruman, on that day, could have been feeling just absolutely bad. It happens. He was human. And he could have written that entry to vent, and then think no more of it.\r\n\r\nHappens all the time. Look at what some bloggers write in fits of anger sometimes. This is the same thing. I\'m not saying it was 100% that, but it could very well have been. Knowing about Harry Truman\'s character, I tend to think that it might very well have been just that. Think about it: a day when he just is fed up with everyone, and the person who gets in his way is making a point that Jews are a seperate nation, etc... And he just happens to strike out at him.\r\n\r\nI\'d say that I would have to see more entries like that before I decide. In the case with Nixon, however, he had several instances where he would do nothing but rant about Jews. There\'s a big difference there. Not that Nixon didn\'t have his bad days either - he did, but the Jewish point is out of place in that instance because there were several moments when that is all he was screaming about, with no real relation to events around him.\r\n\r\nBig differences.\r\n','2003-07-19 16:47:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4621,1,3361,'166.61.238.10','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','_bastian_, I appreciate your post, but I must say I think you are very very wrong. Iraq is a key part of the war on terrorism. I don\'t think many people have a good idea of how interconnected the terrorist groups and totalitarian regimes are. A Russian-financed and run facility in Cuba jams Iranian-American broadcasts into Iran. Did I also mention that Chinese officials recently visited Cuba? The people in Europe need to begin questioning what THEY are told by their newspapers and tvs (as do most Americans as well) because I think you\'ve been given a really distorted view of the situation. Unless we work together to eliminate the proliferation of nuclear weapons, next time those terrorists won\'t be armed with just knives. Imagine a nuclear Holocaust. It would take just one vial of smallpox to kill 3 million+ in Frankfurt or Paris. This is what we are up against. War is an awful, messy business, but I do not intend to allow religious fundamentalists to destroy Western civilization. They have shown themselves to not believe in or even recognize the concept of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) that kept the Cold war from turning into a hot war. In fact, they welcome self-annihilation.\r\n\r\n[...]I dont understand how they can support a president who is sending american people to die for oil or what ever. \r\n\r\nOr whatever? Did you ever wonder about that statement? No Blood for Oil? You do realize that it would have been cheaper and less potentially damaging politically to the president to have just requested the economic sanctions against Iraq be dropped? If he wanted Iraq\'s oil, then this would have been the most logical decision. Indeed, estimates of this war indicate it will cost the US some 100billion+ to rebuild and occupy Iraq. More than we ever hope to get out of its oil wells for quite some time. Indeed, we\'ll probably buy the oil from Iraq and the profits will be used to rebuild the country, provide education, etc. If anything, we ain\'t making money there. Americans buy and sell things. We do not steal them. When we invade countries such as your own, once the country is stable we give the country back to its people. Frankly, we haven\'t the stomach for imperialism. \r\n\r\nBut let\'s assume this is a war for oil. That the US government knows the political situation in Saudi Arabia is not stable and the world is in danger of being cut off from Saudi oil. In fact, we know the Saudis are one of the major sources of financing for terrorists. How do you think the food gets into the grocery stores? Or the money into the ATMs? How do you get to work? If you are really curious as to why Americans use so much oil, visit this country and see how huge it is. You may notice there is very little in terms of public transport. And that our cities are very spread out. Most mornings it takes me 45 minutes to get to work on the highway. There is no public transport where I live that could get me there. Without oil to power the vehicles that transport goods in this world, the world economy would stop and there would be chaos. Oh yeah, we would starve as well.\r\n\r\nAs everyone can see (maby not in the us media for it isn\'t free anymore) this war was not to fight any threat (no wmd, terrorists threat rose, ...) to the us or its people.\r\n\r\nThe US media is undoubtedly free. I suggest you take a second look at Europe and its many state-run presses. This is another distortion of the situation here. The US government does not decide what goes on the news. There are many many many different news outlets in the US. Many more than in France. I don\'t know enough about the German media. Indeed, if one wants to read British newspapers or German papers, all they have to do is mosey on down to their local bookstore or go to a public library in their area and use the internet. \r\n\r\n\r\nThe support for mr. bush is still up even though he lied to all of you to trick you into believeing you are not save.\r\n\r\nWe aren\'t safe and neither are you. Get your head out of the sand. Europe seems to think it is somehow not connected to the US or America is the \"Other\". We are not. We are a child of European civilization, populated largely by the descendents of Europeans. If we go down, then you go down. The West should not divide itself. We are the same civilization.\r\n\r\nthe su still supports him even though your country has (due to mr bushs politics) the highest debst of all times.\r\n\r\nAnd Europe has been littered with double digit unemployment for more than a decade and the government steals most of the money you make through excessively high taxes. I think its time to vote your current leaders out, but you reelected Schroder? Also, maybe you haven\'t noticed all the European countries going into debt as well? Sometimes going into debt is necessary, although I must admit to hating Bush\'s tax cuts for the wealthy. I preferred the temporary elimination of the payroll tax myself.\r\n\r\nHow can you ask for not buying any german product just becaus the german government dosen\'t wont to fight the same war yours did. Don\'t you belive in free speech? dont\' you think that everybody has the right to do what he thinks is best for himselve? \r\n\r\nAmericans deciding to unite to not buy a German or a French product is not an abrogation of freedom of speech. They are actually exercising that freedom. It is a choice. No one is forcing them to do anything. The government has not at any point instructed Americans to boycott European products. Despite the hysteria and lies you receive from your elites, you have a very distorted view of America. You have the right to disagree with us and I have the right to disagree with you. I have the right to express my disagreeance with and disapproval of your position by choosing to not buy German or French products. Freedom of speech for you and not me? It\'s a two-way street, babe. (I didn\'t boycott anything because I thought the whole spat was silly though I was pissed at the French. Of course, that may also be all the French papers and offensive cartoons I\'ve been perusing... on the internet.)','2003-07-19 18:26:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4622,1,3775,'166.61.238.10','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','So, in countries where the drugs are legal, do they have enormous problems with drug addiction? Does it spill out into a larger percentage of the population than it would be otherwise? If drugs were legalized, would this remove much of the attraction people have for them? Would we begin treating them like cigarrettes and the people who use them like pariahs?','2003-07-19 18:36:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4623,1,3791,'66.32.77.53','Laughing Wolf','wolf1@laughingwolf.net','http://laughingwolf.net','Thanks so much for doing this, and sharing the wisdom. The quotes are wonderful on many levels, and I particularly like today\'s... ','2003-07-19 18:54:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4624,1,3789,'66.32.77.53','Laughing Wolf','wolf1@laughingwolf.net','http://laughingwolf.net','Thanks for getting him to reprint the sermon, and sharing it with us all. ','2003-07-19 18:56:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4625,1,3783,'67.73.4.27','Sean','goodlookingui@earthlink.net','','\"On our way down here, Senator Frist was kind enough to show me the fireplace where, in 1814, the British had burnt the Congress Library. I know this is kind of late, but sorry.\"\r\n\r\nDoes anybody other than myself think that quote was intended as a subtle jab at Bill Clinton (delivered to highlight his notorious practice of apologizing for wrongs committed before he was born, and the way he hung Blair out to dry during the runup to the Iraq war)?','2003-07-19 19:30:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4626,1,3793,'24.28.2.101','Matthew','portablematthew@yahoo.com','http://fearfulsymmetry.blogspot.com/','You know, a Hayek fan would probably look at those kids and their bargaining and say, \"aha, spontaneous order!\"\r\n\r\nThat said, your thought on John Rawls makes a lot of sense. I always thought Rawls did himself a great disservice by trying to ground his theory in the realm of nonsectarian Kantian metaphysics. People who aren\'t political philosophers look at ToJ and they think the OP and the VoI are nonsensical. They understand that you \"must play.\"\r\n\r\nIf Rawls had stepped away from obscurantism for a moment and said, instead, that he believed a well-ordered society has its roots in applying the Golden Rule in all legislation, he would have many more adherents. But like Kant, he doesn\'t want to use the Golden Rule because it has too many sticky religious connotations.\r\n\r\nHowever, although the Golden Rule has a religious origin within Western society, it also exists as a nonsectarian cultural tradition, and is easily understood and appreciated as such, even by nonbelievers. Tradition is real in ways that thought experiments cannot be. And rights, not surprisingly, owe much more to tradition than Rawls seemed to understand.','2003-07-19 20:24:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4627,1,3783,'172.138.132.143','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','Catfish and Cod, I actually think that is the policy of the Bush administration but they\'re incompetent in execution and inarticulate in expressing it. Plus, I can see a lot of people scoffing at the thought of Bush expressing or even holding such thoughts.','2003-07-19 20:50:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4628,1,3793,'131.225.232.173','Stan','sforrest@lifshitz.ucdavis.edu','','3. You\'ve gotta play.\r\n
\r\nWho says \"You\'ve Gotta Play?\" There are plenty of people out there who do not \"play.\" They don\'t vote and they don\'t discuss issues. I personally want more \"players\" and so am willing to contemplate adjustments to the game to acomodate others. How about requiring a government to achieve at least a 50% turn out among those eligible to vote? At the very least we could deny any claim to a mandate if an election is won by less than 1% and with less than 30% participation.','2003-07-19 23:00:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4629,1,3783,'68.85.101.77','Alene Berk','usberks@comcast.net','','I lurk here, because it\'s a thoughtful, hopeful environment. So I\'m sorry to rain on the parade, but knowing what we\'re fighting is as important as knowing what we\'re fighting for. So please read and report at Calpundit:\r\nhttp://www.calpundit.com/archives/001704.html\r\n\r\nRead the comments. Comment!!','2003-07-20 00:08:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4630,1,3782,'161.253.28.92','Kris Lofgren','writetothelofty@hotmail.com','http://lofgren.blogspot.com','Calpundit for President!','2003-07-20 01:02:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4631,1,3793,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Stan -\r\n\r\nIf those people think they don\'t \"play\" they ought to think about all the laws and regulations they are subject to...\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-20 01:11:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4632,1,3385,'219.21.178.25','daniel winters','tenkoku1@hotmail.com','','Sundown Friday to sundown is \"God\'s Sabbath\", established long before there were any people called \"Jews\". Praise God for his holy rest (^-^)','2003-07-20 04:40:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4633,1,3794,'12.209.132.54','Plunge','plunge@mac.com','http://chiefwiggles.blotspot.com','Just the act of being \'scary\' gives them the power that Kevin seems to want to ignore.','2003-07-20 05:58:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4634,1,3795,'172.165.218.56','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','I really don\'t get it. I just don\'t get it. I\'ve gotten to the point where I just throw my hands up in disgust.','2003-07-20 06:36:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4635,1,3794,'68.5.110.43','Kevin Drum','calpundit@cox.net','http://www.calpundit.com','No, I don\'t want terrorism treated solely through the criminal justice system. At the same time, however, it\'s not clear that standard military operations are the answer either. Invading Iraq was of dubious value in fighting terrorism, I think, and in any case we can\'t keep that up against very many other countries.\r\n\r\nI might post a few more ideas about this tomorrow just to see what everyone thinks.','2003-07-20 06:49:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4636,1,3795,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Try this, linden: Kofi, like many in the West, no longer believes in state sovereignty. He believes, truly, in the idea of a world government that would issue orders to nation states and have them obeyed, much as Brussels issues regulations that are then obeyed EU-wide. This would include matters of war and peace. The idea is not new, but the revival of belief in it is and Annan recognizes this.\r\n\r\nLike most bureaucraqts, he is happy to seize any opportunity. He believes that the current round of infighting in the USA and public consideration of going to the U.N. represents a cave-in by the USA, one he can use to enhance his own authority.\r\n\r\nOn that matter alone, I agree with him.\r\n\r\nKofi Annan, who directly refused to request additional military forces just before the genocide in Rwanda despite the pleas of the General in command (Can. Gen. Romeo Dallaire), will therefore continue to deliver his little packages of presumptuous self-righteousness despite his own shameful history. This behaviour will last until it becomes clear that he and his institution will pay a BIG political and financial price for doing so.\r\n\r\nWhat this tells me is simple: it\'s time to escalate attacks on the U.N.\'s legitimacy, a task that hate-filled and corrupt body\'s actions make fabulously easy.\r\n\r\nInterestingly, the other side of this debate is also losing its belief in state sovereignty as supreme... but the implications and conclusions drawn from this belief are very different, and do not favour the U.N. Or many of the tin pot despotisms and kleptocratic hellholes that make up this body\'s membership, for that matter.','2003-07-20 06:58:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4637,1,3794,'207.172.11.150','Ian','ian@fiercehighway.com','http://www.fiercehighway.com','AL: Sorry about the double trackback ping. Not sure why that happened...\r\n\r\nI actually think Iraq was a strong stepping stone towards confronting Islamic terror. The protests in Iran, the hudna by groups in Israel/Palestine aren\'t coincidences. Plus, without a source of legitimacy and financial support, suicide bombings in the West Bank and Gaza are harder to mount. \r\n','2003-07-20 07:33:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4638,1,3795,'206.190.18.204','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Excellent Joe.\r\n\r\nNew realities require new divisions in thought.\r\n\r\nThere are two competing ideas of sovereignty in the world. The sovereign state and the sovereign individual.\r\n\r\nHere comes the tricky part. Some states (what we call the anglosphere) support sovereignty of the individual. Which is a very strange thing for a state to do. It is in fact acting against it\'s own interest.\r\n\r\nOther states support sovereignty of the state. This is your normal historical state. The King or the Club makes the rules. Popular discontent can move these states but the individual counts for nothing. They are cattle.\r\n\r\nWhat is so very interesting about all this is that the state of sovereign individuals acting against the interest of it\'s own state is way more powerful than traditional states.\r\n\r\nOrianna Falacci (did I spell it right?) gets it. Bush gets it. Blair understands it in relation to Iraq. He is clueless about the pEU.\r\n\r\nFree man are more productive than cattle. Free men are better fighters than cattle. Free men are smarter than cattle. Free men attract allies.\r\n\r\nDespots must hang together. Free men want to hang together. This is a war of necessity vs. desire.\r\n\r\nBeing an old hippie I will always take desire over necessity. it is the path of heart\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-07-20 08:07:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4639,1,3793,'206.190.18.204','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','I think this points out why the idea and practice of common law is so important. It represents a codification of the game transactions. It allows us in a crude sort of way to make justice measurable.','2003-07-20 08:18:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4640,1,3793,'206.190.18.204','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Common law is the attempt at justice.\r\n\r\nLegislated laws merely strive for coherency and consistiency. This may be good attributes for microchips but humans are more diverse. \r\n\r\nSupposedly in our system Judges and juries are designed to give at least some justice to the application of laws.\r\n\r\nWith Congress tying a judges hand in so many ways and the new very strict rules of evidence that prevent defendants from putting up an effective defence. In effect by not making the system taylor the punishment to the crime we are increasing injustice in an attempt to get predictable results.','2003-07-20 08:33:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4641,1,3795,'68.194.193.162','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','This is very much to be expected from Kofi and his UNocrats. First and foremost, they\'re jawboners, who are used to getting what they want by insisting. Second, they\'re essentially powerless if the U.S. elects to ignore their demands and go its own way. Third, they\'re captives of the major European powers and the satraps of the Muslim Middle East, who own them body and soul.\r\n\r\nNote that they make no such demands of the true forces of evil in the world: the Palestinian terror squads and their prestigious enablers, the Cuban tyrant, the North Korean madmen, the Sudanese practitioners of genocide, the Muslim theocrats constantly calling for the destruction of America and Israel. Note that they retroactively approved the actions of France in Cote D\'Ivoire.\r\n\r\nIgnore them. I trust Dubya is doing so.\r\n','2003-07-20 12:09:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4642,1,3795,'216.66.108.130','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Francis:\r\n\r\nThe UN is smarter than they look. They don\'t hector Castro, Kim, et. al., because the UN knows that tyrants don\'t listen, while there is a chance that the democracies WILL listen.\r\n\r\nI believe Bush will continue to ignore the UN--this may be one reason why the US is considered an evil imperialistic country-because we are not listening to (dripping with sarcasm)the know-it-alls at the UN.\r\n\r\nBy the way, when does the US get to hold Kofi Annan\'s position at the UN (Secretary-General??)','2003-07-20 15:02:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4643,1,3795,'68.194.193.162','Francis W. Porretto','curmudgeonemeritus@palaceofreason.com','http://palaceofreason.com','Phil, you should check me on this, but I think it\'s written into the United Nations Charter that the Secretary-General must come from a \"nonaligned\" nation: a nation not allied with either the United States or the Soviet Union. That leaves us out for good and for all.\r\n\r\nTo quote a certain Ronald Reagan, that doesn\'t upset my breakfast.','2003-07-20 15:35:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4644,1,3795,'66.255.8.100','AMac','ammackay@usa.net','','And on to Liberia.\r\n\r\nSince it suits them in the present circumstances, Kofi Annan et al. believe (1) that the US has a unique obligation to intervene in Liberia; (2) that a cease-fire among the warring factions will be readily achieved; and (3) that this cease-fire will lead to the reconsitution of civil government and a civil society.\r\n\r\nThese assertions are mostly wrong. The justification for US intervention is real, but weak. **This 09 July Daily Telegraph Op-Ed** provides a consise summary. \r\n\r\nThe case for sending the Marines is based on painting the Charles Taylor faction and the two rebel movements as vicious brigands who prey on hapless civilians--an easy case to make. The logic drives off a cliff when we segue to the cease-fire: if the combatants are heavily-armed, ruthless, amoral, full of grievances, prone to terror tactics, and supported by their respective tribes, will they really stay cowed by a small international force in Monrovia? Anyway, why should we intervene to assure the survival of the very worst of the three, Taylor\'s limb-choppin\', al-Quaeda-phile movement? Wars end when one side wins and the others lose. Kofi\'s humanitarian plan to arrest this process will save lives (and limbs) in 2003--at the cost of much greater suffering in years to come.\r\n\r\nI predict that we will shortly be shocked, shocked, to find that the Liberian situation is much more complex than today\'s interventionists had advertised; that the military requirements are greater than foreseen; and that the cost in American treasure to rehabilitate Liberia\'s economy and infrastructure will be high, very high.\r\n\r\nGiven that the US military is already stretched thin, Liberian operations will restrict our options with respect to Iraq and North Korea in a big way.\r\n\r\nOf course, for some (still with me, Kofi? Jacques and Joschka?), that\'s a feature, not a bug.','2003-07-20 15:37:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4645,1,3795,'165.121.176.6','flinch','jcast144@boinkers.mindspring.com','','I think we could all learn from the fine gentlemen of Monty Python\'s Flying Circus when it comes to dealing with the U.N.\r\n\r\n\"Tough titty for you, fishface!\"\r\n\r\nSeriously, I think that much of the world doesn\'t quite realize how much of a sea change GWB is, compared to his predecessor. Bill Clinton was a darling of the UN and the EU, because he believed that U.S. power was best exercised through multilateral arrangements. Kofi still expects GWB to act in the same manner, despite evidence to the contrary.\r\n\r\nThe world has no idea just how radically the US gov\'t changes every four years. ','2003-07-20 16:34:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4646,1,3794,'67.225.186.131','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','I\'ve come to see Kevin Drum as a sort of \"Sgt Shultz\" of Liberalism, not wanting to see a lot of things.\r\n\r\nThis ranged from head-in-the-sand reaction to the rather extreme vitroil of the anti-war protests (which one could watch on C-SPAN and see with one\'s own eyes that the they weren\'t just anti-war, but hostile to our entire society - some of the most rousing lines for the crowds had little to do with war and a lot more to do with antipathy to free market democracy) to a minimal concern over the external challenges. Quite a different attitude than that of, say Paul Berman, who takes this more seriously.\r\n\r\nFor Drum, these things are problems but they pale in significance when compared to the looming menace of tax cuts and the persistant presence of conservatives in America\'s public square.','2003-07-20 17:09:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4647,1,3793,'131.225.236.162','Stan','sforrest@lifshitz.ucdavis.edu','','Dear A.L.
There is a big difference between being subject to the results of government and being a participant in one\'s own government. What interested me specifically about your post was the concept of adjusting the play of the game to allow for greater participation. I went on to suggest one half baked idea about rewarding the political system for increasing participation.','2003-07-20 17:17:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4648,1,3793,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Stan -\r\n\r\nSorry I misinterpreted you. My point was that Rawls (and a number of other political philosophers make the mistake of assuming that political associations are as voluntary as my son\'s games, when they aren\'t.\r\n\r\nThey also assume that the same political societies are somehow voluntarily entered into by people who, like Athena, are somehow born fully-formed. Last time I checked, successful political societies are largely made up of those who were raised from childhood in those societies. Unsuccessful ones ... communes, etc. have largely failed fairly rapidly.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-20 17:46:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4649,1,3744,'24.221.8.212','John Moore (Useful Fools)','bloggery@tinyvital.com','http://www.tinyvital.com/blog/','Just wanted to say that this is an outstanding article and an outstanding blog... and going straight to my blogroll.','2003-07-20 17:47:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4650,1,3795,'67.225.186.131','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Kofi comes back with the message that \"democracy cannot be imposed from outside\" but he wants us in Liberia to do what? Simply make it seem like we\'re doing something (such as the UN mission in Congo), pat ourselves on the back, while the mayhem and killing and dying go on all around (such as the UN mission in Congo)?\r\n\r\nOr are we supposed to go there, get things to calm down a bit, leave in a few months, but without \"imposing\" any sort of civic democratic model, so that Kofi and the other UN functionaries can keep their rice bowl intact, knowing that they\'ll still have their jobs of saying, in another few years down the road, how we need to go back in and calm things down again - and that obviously it was *us* who screwed up the last time which is why violence broke out again - when really it was them, by insisting we not actually solve the problem.\r\n\r\nOr is he, as I suspect, being a hypocritical ass-clown, we *are* supposed to \"impose democracy from outside\" in Liberia but we *shouldn\'t* in Iraq, on the strong principle that we must do what the UN tells us to do, whatever that is? Something I covered a bit in Part II of \"America\'s 21st Century Foreign Policy\".\r\n\r\nAs for this:We\'d really like to have the UN\'s help in this
With Iraq?\r\n\r\nI know how; kill two birds with one stone. Some are saying that to make up the shortfall of troops in Iraq we should go to the UN for them. How about, instead, those UN troops just deploy to Liberia instead?\r\n\r\nOh, there aren\'t any UN troops? Hmmmmn. . .\r\n\r\nFrancis: That\'s not written into the UN Charter, it just became tradition during the interum; sort of like the spoils-system for membership on UN Commissions that made gave such pillars of the international community as Libya the gavel on the UN Commissione on Human Rights.','2003-07-20 18:44:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4651,1,3794,'24.51.148.211','Fredrik Nyman','fredriknyman@adelphia.net','','I think it is correct to characterize the war on bad philosophy as a clash of civilizations.\r\n\r\nHowever, I don\'t think \"loss of western civilization\" is the threat we\'re facing in the war, at least not in our lifetimes.\r\n\r\nTo that extent, Kevin is right; we aren\'t facing barbarians at the gates, necessiting a military response.\r\n\r\nThat said, we are facing a very real threat of losing an American city and hundreds of thousands lives to a stray nuke.\r\n\r\nDespite all the talk about terrorists buying a nuke on the black market in Russia, it is far more likely that a nuke would be acquired from a rogue state. North Korea, in fact, has made it clear that they feel entitled to sell nukes to anyone they want. \r\n\r\nThis is the threat we\'re facing right now. \r\n\r\nThe Bush administration clearly understands this, and has shown itself willing to intervene in Iraq to prevent it from going nuclear. Unless the despots ruling North Korea and Iran come to their senses, it may well have to do it again.\r\n\r\nDo the Democrats (read: the 9 presidential candidates) understand this threat? Are they willing to intervene militarily to prevent the loss of a city? Listening to Kerry, it seems like he\'s more concerned with having first responders equipped to deal with the aftermath of a major attack than with preventing the attack from occurring. \r\n\r\n(Kerry is absolutely right in pointing out weaknesses in our preparedness, but he has his priorities wrong in thinking that the first priority should be to prevent a nuke from reaching the US, and that the second one should be to deal with the aftermath. The first priority should be to prevent the terrorists from acquiring a nuke in the first place, even if it means a military attack on a rogue state).\r\n','2003-07-20 20:14:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4652,1,3795,'208.187.40.229','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','I just dropped a post on the money games behind NGOs, Iraq and Liberia.\r\n\r\nI think you will find it related to this thread as the same faces keep appearing in both.\r\n\r\nThe reality is that freedom and liberty are expressed through national institutions and nothing else.\r\n\r\nTransnational institutions are by definition amoral and tyranny prone.','2003-07-20 21:04:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4653,1,3794,'24.193.224.92','ForNow','twexclor@yahoo.com','http://4now.blogspot.com','What many people seem not to build into their thinking, is the gradual acceleration of the general development, in power, accessibility, miniaturization, deadly synergies, of technologies employable for mass destruction—irradiative, nuclear, chemical, biological. Deadly synergies: e.g., advance in aerosol tech may represent advance in biowarfare tech.\r\n\r\nThese advances, not to mention other things, lead to the weakening & eventual collapse of deterrence. Clausewitzean doctrine ceases to apply. Why should a foreign power or a terrorist network want us to know who attacked us?—the contrary may be more advantageous to them—just to put us out of action for ten years. We can’t really afford any more 9/11s, much less something worse.\r\n\r\nIf one or more of our cities is irradiated, nuked, poisoned, or plagued, & if we don’t know who to strike back at, then what? Even if we then strike back at all the usual suspects, we don’t want to find ourselves painted into that corner in the first place, or even to find our cities ruined in the first place. What if they don’t even care whether we know who they are & whether we strike back? An Iranian ayatollah recently said it would be worth it to nuke Israel even if it resulted in the nuking of Iran. Some folks regard humanity itself as a disease. As is sometimes asked, what if the Unabomber had been not a mathematician but a molecular biologist?\r\n\r\nWe need to reduce & as nearly as possible eliminate the multiplicity of cranky despotisms & terrorist networks having or aspiring to connections with WMD—we need to clean out the swamp. This pertains not only to active cooperation among them but to their playing on strategic synergies among them to test our resources & capabilities of dealing with them all at the same time. In that sense, the removal of Saddam’s regime ramifies favorably throughout the Mid-east for us & helps us against North Korea, too. It reduces the threat from the swamp.\r\n\r\nSaddam had a well established pattern of pursuit, use, & concealment of WMD, & of mendacity, sadism, mass-murderousness, ambition, & expansionism—altogether an ominous brew to say the least! In particular he lied to inspectors, defectors contradicted him, & the inspectors subsequently verified the defectors’ claims, very serious claims. He & his regime could not have the rights & legitimate grievances of somebody presumed innocent. (Also, it is not on any presumption of innocence under a standard of guilt to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, that the publicly available overall intel picture of him should be viewed.)\r\n\r\nEven Blix admitted that Saddam’s cooperation was far from sufficient & that what cooperation he gave was because of our forces built up & on alert nearby. To have held off indefinitely into the future would have been to do something logistically unfeasible for us, politically unfeasible for our allies in the region & perhaps for us, & all for diminishing returns. As the threat of our invading lost credibility, our general seriousness would have come into question, thus weakening our effectiveness. And as time goes by & weaponizable tech develops, a WMD program may become rather more difficult to monitor. Into such a future with Saddam or Uday or Qusay? And who knows but Chirac or de Villepin would soon enough have started leading a new chant: If it’s so important, why hasn’t the US invaded yet?—Chirac who lost all credibility as an “honest broker” when his government said in 1998 that it was time for the inspectors to wrap their work up & leave Iraq. And our military hands would have been tied forever when we need them eventually free to deal with others. And failure to deal with Saddam effectively after the build-up would have been a green light to cranky despots around the world to proceed with their ambitions no matter what the US, not to mention the UN, said.\r\n\r\nThe logistical & political limits of our window of opportunity were legitimate & compelling factors in our decision to invade. Any ethical approach to decision-making demands their being taken into account. The point was not to try yet again to see whether we could get along with Saddam but for Saddam, who was not presumably post-1998-innocent, to come completely clean on terms & in a timeframe optimal for us, our allies in the region, & our troops at risk. We had the right, & the obligation to the future, to stop giving him ways out & instead to press the issues & bring them to a head.\r\n\r\nIt is now deadly foolishness to oppose the idea of action against despotisms with the question: But what have they done to us lately? We have to base our actions on what we know of the long-term patterns of despotisms & terrorists. They’re thinking about how we’re thinking & some may lie low till the coast is clear.\r\n\r\nThe accelerated advance of weaponizable technology inexorably brings accelerated geopolitical change. Gone are the staid days when people could sit around talking with some reasonableness about what international politics might look like in fifty years.','2003-07-20 21:08:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4654,1,3797,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','I\'m guessing I\'m not the first to notice this but since I can\'t recall anyone else saying it I\'d like to point out that NGO stands for Non-Governmental Organization. NGOs seek to change the policies of governments. They also use forms of blackmail to get money from governments. Well, by this brief definition Al Qaeda is an NGO.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-20 22:06:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4655,1,3797,'4.40.49.194','Ra','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','The point of my last post is to suggest that we should occasionally says lines like \"Al Qaeda and other NGOs want the US to withdraw from Iraq\" or \"Al Qaeda and other NGOs hold the United States responsible for poverty in the less developed countries\" and other lines of that sort. There is fun to be had here. Try out some lines. I\'m sure you all can come up with some good ones to stick in posts about a large assortment of topics.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-20 22:16:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4656,1,3797,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','No, al-Qaeda is one step up the food chain. It is a granting agency. Recall that the literal translation of \"the base\" actually means \"the database.\"\r\n\r\nThe NGOs are the local cells who bring in plans for funding and then execute attacks. Like other NGOs they will support, defend, and threaten on behalf of the granting agency on which their funding depends. This keeps the funding going, which in turn provides them with most of their capacity to threaten.\r\n\r\nAs usual, the role of the granting agency is to offer money, monitor effectiveness, and send in consultants as needed. Trent\'s Africa example is a good one, and that\'s what guys like Zarqawi are too.\r\n\r\nFinally, it\'s worth pointing out 2 things:\r\n\r\n[1] That by Randall\'s definition, any organized political group is an NGO. which makes the term less than meaningful.\r\n\r\n[2] There is a quantum difference between non-government actors who use of violence to accomplish one\'s aims and those that don\'t. I\'ve written about NGOs like Amnesty before, and however distateful they may be they don\'t deserve comparison with al-Qaeda until and unless they themselves become involved in violent acts (as ISM and Red Crescent are in Israel, for instance), or openly advocate the use of violence (American Muslim Council).','2003-07-20 22:24:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4657,1,3795,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','The biggest problem with the UN is that most governments in the world are fairly bad and therefore an organization made up of those governments is bound to be bad.\r\n\r\nImagine that the majority of voters in a Western nation were criminals. What would that nation\'s government be like? Well, why should the UN be any different.\r\n\r\nOf course on top of that you have everything that goes wrong in bureaucracies plus the desire of some weaker Western nations to use the UN and NGOs as tools to block the United States. ','2003-07-20 22:24:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4658,1,3797,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','I\'ll also say this. This article is a good illustration of the NGO money game... but it in no way proves or even offers much evidence toward the thesis in its title: that Amnesty is a friend of tyranny and enemy of the USA.\r\n\r\nAs someone who has written on that very subject before, there are certainly points to be made and evidence to be offered in favour of that argument. It\'s just that almost none of that was used here.\r\n\r\n\"The NGO Money Game\" would be a FAR better title for this post. \"Amnesty International -- Ally of Tyranny, Enemy of the USA\" is misleading in a way that goes beyond even the \"Bush lied!\" headlines.','2003-07-20 22:38:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4659,1,3797,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Trent, there\'s a for-real issue in the seeming inability of AI and other \'humanitarian\' NGO\'s to differentiate between unpleasant prison conditions and torture, rape, and mass murder.\r\n\r\nBut if you keep dividign the world into \'for us, by my standards\' and \' against us\', it\'s going to get damn lonely in your corner of the world.\r\n\r\nIt takes courage and diplomacy. Recall the runup to Marathon?? Leonidas used his courage to buy time for diplomacy, not instead of it.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-20 23:43:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4660,1,3797,'194.27.19.97','zhermit','zhermit@mehmag.org','http://www.mehmag.org/blog/','I know that this point is going to go way over your heads, but this actually didn\'t prove anything.\r\n\r\nIt said a) that governments contribute a lot of resources to NGOs. No big shock there. How else are most NGOs going to get their funding? Private donations?\r\n\r\nb) Some guy tells a story of Western consultants living the high life in a Third World country.\r\n\r\nHere\'s what it doesn\'t say, for those who weren\'t paying any attention:\r\n\r\na) that the EU or other countries have led these NGOs to do nefarious things\r\n\r\nb) where these consultants come from\r\n\r\nc) how much this high on the hog lifestyle actually costs. I\'ve been to foreign countries, and even in second world countries, a student can live in pretty posh conditions. Do you expect them to take up residence in a shack? And why does one account automatically make every single NGO a completely wasteful entity, full of people who only want to live the best in life (which is what the article implies).\r\n\r\nHere are a few other failings of this article:\r\n\r\na) Automatically assumes that there was no Jenin massacre\r\n\r\nb) blames the NGOs for the disappearance of funds in Palestine, when much of this has been because of government corruption/and/or lack of ability for the NGOs to make a difference\r\n\r\nc) automatically assumes that the humanitarian projects that the EU or other countries (hey, the US supports them too) support are somehow invalid or nefarious\r\n\r\nd) refuses to acknowledge any kind of actual evidence besides the one statistic of the EU budget. Instead, it builds its \'arguments\' on mere assumptions.\r\n\r\nYes, there are problems with NGOs, most notably the lack of transparency. But most NGO workers, and I\'ve known a few, are dedicated individuals who work very hard to ensure that the people around them have a better life. Most NGOs are starved for cash. And ridiculously, they are ridiculed for their efforts.','2003-07-20 23:58:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4661,1,3794,'194.27.19.97','zhermit','zhermit@mehmag.org','http://www.mehmag.org/blog/','So, ForNow, it sounds like you\'re saying that because we have power, and feel threatened, we should use it, and use it in a blunt force manner? And how is that going to not lead to more terrorists?\r\n\r\nReally, it should be multi-pronged. Go after terrorists where you can - not necessarily with an invasion force, but with a special strike force led by real intelligence - humint, which we haven\'t tried to develop for over 20 years. Cut aid to countries that don\'t follow IMF economic rules, and instead give that aid to NGOs that will actually make a difference on the ground. \r\n\r\nJust trying to attack countries where we think there are terrorists, or who have horrible leaders, won\'t do a damn thing to stop terrorism. It especially won\'t do anything when we can\'t get the world behind us in the attack efforts, and get the world to start laughing at us during our cleanup failures.\r\n\r\nAddressing the article topic:\r\nTerrorism can\'t necessarily be treated as war, because it is far too easy to accuse someone of terrorist actions - and far too easy for someone to be mistreated because of it. However, it is not simply a crime. It\'s somewhere in the middle, but I\'m not really sure where, or what that implies.','2003-07-21 00:11:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4662,1,3794,'24.193.224.92','ForNow','twexclor@yahoo.com','http://4now.blogspot.com','The response to my comment was not a response. It did not engage on questions of established long-term patterns either in particular cases or generically. It runs away when it seems to attack, with such phrases as “when we feel” & so on. There is no recognition of the problem of the accelerated pace of development of weaponizable technology, much less a recognition of the problem of building the issue of such development into one’s thinking in a general way. It does not address the issue of what, if any, presumptions of innocence are reasonable to make in a case like Saddam’s, & how the absence of such presumptions ramifies with regard to the interpretation of intel & with what, as a practical matter, is to be done. And so on.\r\n\r\nI can agree only with the implicit idea in the post that intelligence & the intelligence system must be improved.','2003-07-21 00:24:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4663,1,3794,'24.193.224.92','ForNow','twexclor@yahoo.com','http://4now.blogspot.com','On the issue of treating terrorism as crime for the legal system, versus as war, I come down pretty firmly on the side of Armed Liberal, since I see the threat of asymmetrical warfare as he evidently does, though maybe I should have said so explcitly. Only I see little hope that we can return to treating it as a crime in the reasonably foreseeable future, which is a less far future than it used to be. There is, I think, a real problem of what this does long-term to our civil rights, & to our government’s foreign activities, as more aggressive strategies become built into the culture of our security agencies. And in the wrong hands...etc.','2003-07-21 01:17:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4664,1,3797,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Ya know zhermit, I\'m sure it tough coming down from the Emerald Tower to visit all of us. And I\'m sure it\'s not something you do often, so let me make suggestion that might make your visits more productive.\r\n\r\nOpening your argument by insulting the sudience\'s intelligence (or morality, or parentage etc. etc.) is usually (sorry, multisyllable word there) a one-way ticket to Palookaville.\r\n\r\nIt look like you actually have some decent points to make, and I thought Trent\'s arguments were thin (as I noted earlier).\r\n\r\nBut somehow I can\'t motivate myself to put down the Blatz and pay a lot of attention to what you say.\r\n\r\nI\'ll cool down and try again later.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L. ','2003-07-21 02:30:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4665,1,3797,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Actually, A.L., I\'d say Zhermit has some good points... other than his spew on Jenin. Clue, zhermit: the Palestinians themselves have backed off on that lie.\r\n\r\nAs I noted earlier, there are good points made in the article. But based on the headline no, it didn\'t prove much. Which is why it needs a different and more appropriate headline.','2003-07-21 02:47:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4666,1,3794,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','zhermit -\r\n\r\nWell, no insults here, so I\'ll take a shot at replying.\r\n\r\nFirst I have a hard time imagining what Go after terrorists where you can - not necessarily with an invasion force, but with a special strike force led by real intelligence - humint, which we haven\'t tried to develop for over 20 years. looks like. We dropped humint 20 years ago because we got uncomfortable with partnering with arms and drug dealers and other unsavory types - which is sadly necessary to play in that arena. I\'d probably agree with the need for more humint and the foolishness of the \'high horse\' moral position that led us there. Now explain how your \'strike force\' works. We send A-teams into foreign countries to kill identified terrorists? There\'s a prohibition on that in our law, and the foreign countries might get kinda hincky about our troops covertly wandering around and killing and capturing people.\r\n\r\n\r\nI\'m also someone who sees the IMF as primarily acting in the interests of banks that hold foreign debt; their track record is certainly mixed, but that\'s another discussion. And while I don\'t share Trent\'s view of NGO\'s as Tools of Eeeevil, I do think that for many things NGO\'s are better at giving progressive, middle-class First World kids jobs and providing career outlets for the products of Third World universities. \r\n\r\n\"it is far too easy to accuse someone of terrorist actions\" - so how exactly does this square with your concrete proposal above? \r\n\r\nBack to the Emerald Tower, I think...\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-21 03:16:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4667,1,3795,'218.104.145.2','JFarr','jfarreast@hotmail.com','','I can\'t politically analyze the situation. I don\'t know how many or what kind of troops may be needed in Liberia. But I do know the Liberian people. I lived in Sierra Leone and Liberia from 1991 to 2001 and I can\'t believe that Liberia would become a \"quagmire\". Some years ago I disagreed with those who suggested that we pay the fighters not to fight but now I am beginning to think it is a good idea. These \"boys\" are not hardened criminals - they have been inoculated to the effect of violence - as I have been. \r\n\r\nGet rid of Taylor, there needs to be justice. Fix the water and electricity and provide education opportunities for all. Teach them trades. Get rid of UN workers - they drive up the prices of building materials for the local people. Don\'t rush to try to have democratic elections - they don\'t understand what that means. They are dependent and have always been. Give them seeds and fertilizer and 6 months to grow their own rice and then stop food aid and the importation of rice by Lebanese businessmen. The land is fertile and plenty - don\'t give them rice. It may seem like a small thing but it is very important to Liberians. Let the process consolidate itself and you will see a proud, able people emerge.\r\n\r\nI am fully in favor of the US presence in Liberia - perhaps to lead other troops. And a US led governing council of some sort.','2003-07-21 03:44:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4668,1,3794,'24.193.224.92','ForNow','twexclor@yahoo.com','http://4now.blogspot.com','The IMF tries to be like methadone programs are supposed to be. I’m not sure even methadone programs are like they’re supposed to be. If it’s a bad analogy, chalk it up to my being neither doctor nor economist. Anyway some countries seem to have been better off rejecting or being rejected by the IMF.','2003-07-21 06:20:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4669,1,3797,'206.190.18.218','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','I liked Amnesty\'s anti-Dug War Campaign. It looked like a fair estimation of the situation in America to me. \r\n\r\nI thought it was nice that they showed support for human rights in the first world as well as the third.\r\n\r\nI also think Human Rights Watch got the situation in Iraq re: Saddam correct.\r\n\r\nSometimes they get things right.','2003-07-21 06:59:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4670,1,3798,'67.225.186.74','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','You wrote:\"Al Sharpton says that Black Americans should be involved in deciding whether to send troops to Libera where Taylor now vows to hold on to his bloody power.\"
I don\'t suppose Colin Powell or Condi Rice count as Black Americans in Sharpie\'s eyes, since they aren\'t part of The Hive.','2003-07-21 07:19:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4671,1,3797,'67.160.156.25','Michael J. Totten','mike.totten@netiq.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','Sometimes they get things wrong for bogus political reasons, and they certainly are not above criticism, but Amnesty International is usually correct.\r\n\r\nEnemy of the USA? Puh-leeze, Trent. ','2003-07-21 08:02:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4672,1,3794,'65.141.193.223','Robin Goodfellow','aeglos@dualboot.net','http://aeglos.blogspot.com/','I wonder what it is that causes such vast gulfs in instinctive reaction between people who probably more or less agree on the actual nature of the threat itself?
\r\n\r\nThree thousand dead in a heap of rubble in downtown Manhattan in the middle of the work week.\r\n\r\nWhat is with these people? Wake up! Wake the hell up! Were you with the idiots who thought they would stop at a dozen? Or the idiots who thought that a few hundred was little concern? Certainly not enough to barge into their lands and muck up their culture, traditions, and governments just for a teeny, tiny increase in our safety, right? Or the idiots who think that they\'ll stop at a few thousand? Well they won\'t Kevin. They wouldn\'t stop at ten thousand, a hundred thousand, a million, ten million, a hundred million, or a billion either. Nor is it implausible in the slightest that they could kill a million or ten million or more. WMD terrorism is already old hat bud. Sarin, radiological murders, anthrax, it\'s all been done. It\'s just a matter of time before some bunch of jerk-offs hits the winning combination and pulls off a successful chemical or biological weapon attack which actually kills a hell of a lot of people. At least it would be if they are given the opportunity. And we\'ve only just barely started doing what needs to be done to fix the problem and deny them the opportunity. We\'ve got our foot in the door, that\'s all. We have the chance now. But only the chance. Even if we try our hardest there\'s no guarantee that it\'ll work.\r\n\r\nThis stuff is serious. It\'s not just penny-ante crap like Haiti or even, really, Kosovo. These terrorists aren\'t just operating on their own, they have a lot of support from powerful individuals and even state governments. Terrorists who were effectively working for the Iranian government have already killed hundreds of American civilians and soldiers. The same applies for the Syrian, Lybian, former Iraqi, and former Afghani regimes (with varying body counts, of course). Make no mistake, we\'re at war, have been at war, and will continue to be at war for some time, and the stakes are high. This is every bit as serious as the Cold War or WWII. If we fail to act, or if we falter, or if unforseen complications arise then very serious consequences might result. There is little chance of us \"losing\" in the same manner as we might have lost against the Soviets, but there is a very real chance of a grevious injury to America, our allies, our interests, or to the nations, cultures, and lands of our enemies. If we stumble we may well be forced to guarantee with nuclear weapons and massive destruction of the Muslim and Arab world that we will not lose.\r\n\r\n\r\n(P.S. Trent, terrorist effectiveness hasn\'t really hit any such upswing recently, it\'s been pretty constant over the last two or three decades. What has increased, I think, is the number of soldiers and the size and capabilities (and funding) of terrorist organizations, and you\'d expect greater effects from that greater force. If you look at the ratio of deaths to terrorists involved in an attack you\'ll get fairly similar ratio ranges out of Beirut, Khobar, OKC, 9/11, etc. 3,000 died on 9/11 but that was for 19 terrorists, so that\'s only about 160 per terrorist, which is roughly the same ratio as Beirut, Khobar, or OKC. One could argue, of course, that if the 9/11 terrorists had been just slightly luckier or smarter they could have killed many more, by putting all 4 planes into downtown NYC, for example, but that applies to other attacks as well (WTC \'93 actually had a higher possibility of killing all the people in one or both towers than 9/11, for example). And there\'s no guarantee that they won\'t be able to increase their effectiveness in the future, even the near future (through WMDs especially).)','2003-07-21 08:02:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4673,1,3798,'66.91.195.252','Venomous Kate','comments@electricvenom.com','http://www.electricvenom.com','I doubt Sharpton even believes that Powell or Condi are black.','2003-07-21 08:43:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4674,1,3675,'193.252.151.40','Amjad Muhammad','amjadmuhammad@nxb.com.pk','','Gentlemen,\r\n\r\nI am looking for the email address of Mr. Robert Baer (Author of \"Sleeping with the Devil\").\r\n\r\nPlease help...','2003-07-21 09:34:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4675,1,3794,'207.189.187.249','rur42','rur42@hotmail.com','','\r\nI would like some of you rabid warriors to explain clearly just once why we did not go to war with the terrorist state of Saudi Arabia. (How many exactly of the 9/11 perps Iraqis? Or even trained in Iraq? Umm exactly zero.)\r\n\r\n& follow it up with an explanation why it\'s good for us to let N. Korea move ahead, boasting of WMD production. (& should we decide to confront them, who exactly is we, White Man? Overaged politicians, flashy jetboys, bloggers and instawhatevers? I don\'t think so. Well, there\'s always the draft, since enlistments seem to be dropping off precipitously as people learn the difference between the day to gruntwork and the movie version (Rah rah Jessica!)\r\n\r\n& add in a dash of Pakistan while yr at it.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-21 10:19:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4676,1,3797,'208.187.73.11','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Joe, A.L.,\r\n\r\n It took Amnesty International three years, and an organized threat to their American fund raising, for them to even acknowledge the reality of Palestinian suicide bombings. And even today the number of A.I. press releases criticizing Israel human rights violations outnumber those criticizing the Palestinian suicide bombers by two orders of magnitude.\r\n\r\n Israel is by no means perfect, but Israelis aren\'t the one teaching children in kindergarten the glories of blowing oneself up to kill other people\'s children like the Palestinians are. A human rights violation that A.I. has remained silent on, BTW.\r\n\r\n In addition, neither of you are thinking through the implications of the NGO/E.U. revolving door nor the institutional imperatives of the NGO fund-raising model. The Anti-Semites and Anti-Americans in the E.U. go to work in the name brand human rights organizations when they are out of power and then go back again when their political factions get back in power in Europe.\r\n\r\n People wise, name brand human rights NGOs are nothing but extentions of the \"Axis of Weasel.\" They are Tranzies. Like all Tranzies they are against both national sovereignty and the ordered liberty that it provides in functioning democracies like the USA.\r\n\r\n As for the name brand NGO\'s fund-raising model, face it, it ensures that they all practice both _anti-Semitism_ and _Anti-Americanism_ for money. \r\n\r\n That means they are all functionally against _freedom_. That makes them the allies of tyranny everywhere.\r\n\r\n Compare how much time and effort Amnesty International expends on Iraq or Israel with their efforts in the Congo.\r\n\r\n Where are more people dying and more people suffering horror? Where Americans or American money, and Amnesty International, are not (AKA the Congo). This is no accident. It is a fundraising strategy that opposed America doing good in the world and that cooperates with evil.\r\n\r\n That neither you Joe, nor you A.L., want to go there doesn\'t mean A.I. or other international NGOs should be given a pass. America accomplishing its goals in the War on Terrorism will destroy the reason most international NGOs exist. Without international disorder the international NGO parasites, and their Tranzie masters, will be out of business. America is in the order imposition business for the duration.\r\n\r\n International NGOs, like the continental European Tranzies are not our friends, are not our allies, and have vital interests opposed to our own vital interests.\r\n\r\n There is a one word name that fits that bill. \r\n\r\n The word is *ENEMY*.\r\n\r\n International NGOs like Amnesty International are going to be America\'s enemy for the duration...so too bad for them.','2003-07-21 13:48:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4677,1,3794,'199.196.144.17','Ian','ian@fiercehighway.com','http://www.fiercehighway.com','rur42: Well, I put a few thoughts about Saudi Arabia here, but it doesn\'t completely answer your charge. \r\n\r\nThe best reason I can think of for not going to war with SA is, in fact, the oil. Because such a massive amount of the world\'s oil comes from this place, reducing the government of SA to rubble would earn reprisals against the oil fields, since they\'d rightly believe we\'d take control of them anyway. They can\'t really fight us, so we\'d have to count on the possibility that they\'d try to cripple the US and the world by laying siege to the miles and miles and miles of pipelines. \r\n\r\nThis does\'t just mean higher prices at the pump. This means everything that uses oil for fuel, lubrication, production or as an intermediate input suddenly gets MUCH more expensive. It costs tons more to refrigerate foods being shipped across the ocean. Shipping goes up in multiples, so places that depend on imports for goods get hit pretty damn hard. Electricity production is reduced or gets massively expensive, with all its attendant problems. Manufacturing gets hit for every bit of machinery that needs lube, or for using oil as inputs into things like plastic (which the world uses a GREAT deal of in everything from medical implements to toys). Even temporarily reducing the world oil supply by 1/2 the amount that comes out of Saudi Arabia would make the 70s oil shocks seem tame. \r\n\r\nPlus, we\'d have to account for possible reprisals from other OPEC nations that would decide they\'re doing ok with their oil, why not screw the US and the world by not increasing -- or even reducing -- their production levels. \r\n\r\nPeople like to think oil matters mostly for people who want to drive 85 mph in a Hummer at 7mpg. For those people who need it for basic food production, it\'s another matter. \r\n\r\nN. Korea is another matter. I won\'t crowd the comments here with that one. ','2003-07-21 15:50:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4678,1,3774,'198.26.125.12','nathan','brainfertilizer@yahoo.com','http://brain.blogmosis.com','I didn\'t really discuss China\'s missile forces for two reasons:\r\n1) The topic was Air Power, and missile forces are more like long range artillery. It cannot perform most of the functions of Air Power.\r\n2) I don\'t know as much about the missile forces as I do ground and air.\r\n\r\nThere is much more to asymmetrical warfare than just GPS jammers and computer hackers. If you stop and think about most of our strengths, you can be sure that China has thought of those things as well, and is developing a counter. How effective any specific counter might be, we don\'t know, and probably won\'t unless we are in conflict.\r\n\r\nRight now, the two biggest threats to any carrier are the Sunburn anti-ship missiles on the Sovremenny-class destroyers and diesel attack submarines. But again, that\'s not air power.\r\n\r\nI hadn\'t really considered the aspect of striking at staging areas; that\'s an intriguing aspect. The main staging area would probably be Taiwan, certainly in range of a host of missiles. They may not be terribly accurate, but some will hit, and it would disrupt operations staging from there in any case.\r\nBut Korea and Japan are far more troublesome to the Chinese point of view. Of course, they wouldn\'t want to get anyone else involved against them, so they might not strike at South Korea; that\'s debatable, and would depend on the state of North Korea at that time, as well, I assume. However (and this is just my gut feeling), if conflict were to break out in East Asia, I think China would do everything it could to keep Japan out of the fight. Quite possibly to the point of foregoing any strike at staging areas on Japanese soil. Any thoughts on that?','2003-07-21 16:07:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4679,1,3797,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Oh, don\'t be silly. I\'ve taken very direct shots at Amnesty in the past for being exactly what your headline describes. It\'s not that I don\'t want to go there, it\'s that your article doesn\'t... at least, not with convincing evidence of same.\r\n\r\nEven adding the stuff in your comment, it\'s a very thin aregument. A.I. are tranzies who accept government funds and run the same kind of NGO fund-raising games you\'ve detailed in the past for the NRA? Well, duh. A.I. as biased? Your comment adds evidence your article didn\'t have. The NGO funding machine provides a revolving door and sinecure that the Left depends on for its organizational structure, and which mirrors the kind of quasi-corrupt corporate interest revolving door we see elsewhere with government agencies? Your article plus your comment makes a strong case. Many NGOs more interested in money than real results? Your article makes a plausible case.\r\n\r\nIf you\'d just stick to that, you might actually, you know, persuade some people. As the business saying goes: underpromise, overdeliver. As the writers\' maxim goes: show, don\'t tell.\r\n\r\nEven if you\'ve made the connections in your head, you\'ll need to take readers through it step by step because they haven\'t seen what you\'ve seen and may not share the same premises (vid: \"Bush Lied!\" headlines, which are very similar in their process, approach, and hence overstatement). During that patient process you can always come back and build on earlier works later, or bring forward more direct evidence. But your tendency to overstatement and generalization without backup hurts your credibility and is beginning to do so for the blog.','2003-07-21 16:26:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4680,1,3799,'67.227.12.208','Jim Baxter','Choice.maker@verizon.net','http://www.geocities.com/James-Baxter/','If \"Freedom\" did not characterize America, nobody would envy America! Freedom to choose has made possible human creativity! Inventivness and creativity are choice-making procedures. Ever write a poem, paint a picture, or create a new recipe, etc.? You cannot do it without making choices.\r\n\r\nYour Rights as earth\'s Choicemaker are NOT a grant of government or man. They are a Gift,an endowment of the Creator God, to His creation, man. Any person or system which opposes your free Rights is opposing the GOD who gave them to you. ALL tyrants are in opposition to GOD and nature. Humans must be free to choose in order to fulfill GOD\'s purposes in making you an agent of His Freedom -- of Himself! DO NOT give any credit to any man-made system for what only the Creator GOD can and has done. YOU were made in His image. Now, go ahead and live like it!\r\n\r\nThe next time you see/hear of a cleric from ANY religion wave a \'holy\' book and claim to speak for the GOD of your creation -- and opposes Human Rights -- you will know he is a FRAUD and does NOT deserve respect or obedience. Never mind \'envy.\' Just be Thankful -- and live it!!! JFB','2003-07-21 17:16:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4681,1,3799,'67.227.12.208','Jim Baxter','Choice.maker@verizon.net','http://www.geocities.com/James-Baxter/',' \r\n CONTEMPORARY COMMENTS\r\n \"I should think that if there is one thing that man has\r\n learned about himself it is that he is a creature of\r\n choice.\" Richard M. Weaver\r\n\r\n \"Man is a being capable of subduing his emotions and\r\n impulses; he can rationalize his behavior. He arranges\r\n his wishes into a scale, he chooses; in short, he acts.\r\n What distinguishes man from beasts is precisely that he\r\n adjusts his behavior deliberately.\" Ludwig von Mises\r\n\r\n \"To make any sense of the idea of morality, it must be\r\n presumed that the human being is responsible for his\r\n actions and responsibility cannot be understood apart\r\n from the presumption of freedom of choice.\" \r\n John Chamberlain\r\n\r\n \"The advocate of liberty believes that it is complemen-\r\n tary of the orderly laws of cause and effect, of\r\n probability and of chance, of which man is not completely\r\n informed. It is complementary of them because it rests in\r\n part upon the faith that each individual is endowed by \r\n his Creator with the power of individual choice.\"\r\n Wendell J. Brown\r\n\r\n \"Our Founding Fathers believed that we live in an ordered\r\n universe. They believed themselves to be a part of the\r\n universal order of things. Stated another way, they\r\n believed in God. They believed that every man must find\r\n his own place in a world where a place has been made for\r\n him. They sought independence for their nation but, more\r\n importantly, they sought freedom for individuals to think\r\n and act for themselves. They established a republic\r\n dedicated to one purpose above all others - the preserva-\r\n tion of individual liberty...\" Ralph W. Husted\r\n\r\n \"We have the gift of an inner liberty so far-reaching\r\n that we can choose either to accept or reject the God\r\n who gave it to us, and it would seem to follow that the\r\n Author of a liberty so radical wills that we should be\r\n equally free in our relationships with other men.\r\n Spiritual liberty logically demands conditions of outer\r\n and social freedom for its completion.\" Edmund A. Opitz\r\n\r\n \"Above all I see an ability to choose the better from the\r\n worse that has made possible life\'s progress.\" \r\n Charles Lindbergh\r\n\r\n \"Freedom is the Right to Choose, the Right to create for\r\n oneself the alternatives of Choice. Without the possibil-\r\n ity of Choice, and the exercise of Choice, a man is not \r\n a man but a member, an instrument, a thing.\"\r\n Thomas Jefferson\r\n\r\n THE QUESTION AND THE ANSWER\r\n Q: \"What is man that You are mindful of him, and the son\r\n of man that You visit him.\" Psalm 8:4\r\n A: \"I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against\r\n you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing\r\n and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and\r\n your descendants may live.\" Deuteronomy 30:19\r\n\r\n Q: \"Lord, what is man, that You take knowledge of him?\r\n Or the son of man, that you are mindful of him?\" Psalm\r\n 144:3\r\n A: \"And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose\r\n for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the\r\n gods which your fathers served that were on the other\r\n side of the river, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose\r\n land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will\r\n serve the Lord.\" Joshua 24:15\r\n\r\n Q: \"What is man, that he could be pure? And he who is\r\n born of a woman, that he could be righteous?\" Job 15:14\r\n A: \"Who is the man that fears the Lord? Him shall He\r\n teach in the way he chooses.\" Psalm 25:12\r\n\r\n Q: \"What is man, that You should magnify him, that You\r\n should set Your heart on him?\" Job 7:17\r\n A: \"Do not envy the oppressor and choose none of his\r\n ways.\" Proverbs 3:31\r\n\r\n Q: \"What is man that You are mindful of him, or the son\r\n of man that You take care of him?\" Hebrews 2:6\r\n A: \"I have chosen the way of truth; your judgments I have\r\n laid before me.\" Psalm 119:30 Let Your hand become my\r\n help, for I have chosen Your precepts.\" Psalm 119:173\r\n \r\n References:\r\n Genesis 3:3,6 Deuteronomy 11:26-28; 30:19 Job 5:23\r\n Isaiah 7:14-15; 13:12; 61:1 Amos 7:8 Joel 3:14\r\n Ecclesiastes 3:1-8\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n Sir Isaac Newton \r\n The greatest scientist in human history \r\n a Bible-Believing Christian \r\n an authority on the Bible\'s Book of Daniel\r\n committed to individual value\r\n and individual liberty\r\n \r\n Daniel 9:25-26 Habakkuk 2:2-3 KJV selah\r\n\r\n \"What is man...?\" Earth\'s Choicemaker JOEL 3:14 KJV\r\n http://www.geocities.com/James-Baxter/ \r\n','2003-07-21 17:33:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4682,1,3794,'24.193.224.92','ForNow','twexclor@yahoo.com','http://4now.blogspot.com','I am not actually sure about just what approach is best versus Saudi Arabia or the dangerous elements in Pakistan. The removal of Saddam’s regime can reasonably be expected to help against Saudi Arabia, Syria, & Palestinian terrorist groups. It already appears to be doing so.\r\n\r\nGenerally, different countries require different approaches, not a conveyor-belt one-size-fits all approach. What\'s more, as I already said, the various countries & groups are all simultaneous. They fit as pieces into a big dissonant picture, & action against one ramifies with regard to all. So each step has to be examined in terms of how it will or won\'t worsen the larger situation & how it will or won\'t improve it & will or won\'t facilitate the further war against terror. To take a one-size-fits all approach would be disastrous & would reflect a criminal degree self-righteous recklessness. It would be disastrous to attempt to fight despotisms in chronological order solely according to their degree of evil. We must fight the war on terms optimal for us, our allies, & our troops at risk, in order to maximize feasibility & minimize casualties & the risk of mass horror. Certainly it would be warped to suggest that optimization is other than a crucial part of any ethical decision-making process about war. There is something viciously destructive in the suggestion that we should conduct the war against terror in a \"more consistent\" way that would in fact be directly counterproductive to it. ','2003-07-21 18:25:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4683,1,2547,'64.166.166.228','Lori','ishqhoo@mac.com','','I have read everything Idries Shah has written, most of the books multiple times, but I have yet to talk to anyone else who has. Is there anyone out there who has requested a teacher, and been given a reading list of Shah\'s books? It would be nice to correspond with someone who is sincerely trying to \"learn how to learn\" as I am, and share insights. Anyone out there?','2003-07-21 19:22:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4684,1,3779,'24.161.98.155','gberke','politics@geraldberke.com','http://political_data.blogspot.com','I don\'t think Truman said anything much beyond \"the blankety blank Jews are no different from anyone else\".\r\nAnd at least the original releases on Turman\'s words looked not at all at what was informing Truman, but just took the stance \"if you don\'t have something good to say about the Jews, then its anti-semitism\".\r\nBull-roars, sez I.\r\nAnd it is true, that unlike ANY other WW II victims, the JEWS were a hunted species. Not merely killed if you came across one, but actively sought, hunted, and anyone interfering with that hunt in any way risked the lives of the entire family, friends...\r\nThe Jews had real cause to panic. \r\nBesides, the holocaust wan\'t over... just the war. Where was it safe to be a Jew then? (hmmm, where is it safe to be a Jew now?)\r\nSame place its safe to be almost anyone: the US.','2003-07-21 19:58:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4685,1,3795,'66.255.8.100','AMac','ammackay@usa.net','','JFarr (3:44am):\r\n\r\n> I can\'t believe that Liberia would become a \"quagmire\".\r\n\r\nBut it has become one already.\r\n\r\n> These \"boys\" are not hardened criminals - they have been inoculated to the effect of violence \r\n\r\n...the next best thing to hardened criminals.\r\n\r\n> I am beginning to think it is a good idea [to pay off fighters.]\r\n\r\nIt might solve today\'s problems, but when do we stop the danegeld? If we have the will and the money to spend, let\'s look at **hiring mercenaries to do the job**, then reconstituting a non-RUF, non-Taylor, non-kleptocratic government.\r\n\r\nJFarr, you lived in Sierra Leone and Libera for 10 years. Care to suggest what went wrong and what we could do now? Your words cry out for a follow-up post.','2003-07-21 20:03:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4686,1,3798,'24.167.222.39','LJ','rjohnston@wi.rr.com','','This may or may not be the information you were looking for. But GlobalSecurity has a list of foreign troops supposed to be deployed to Iraq.','2003-07-21 20:12:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4687,1,3797,'194.27.19.97','zhermit','zhermit@mehmag.org','http://www.mehmag.org/blog/','OK, Armed Liberal, I\'ll apologize for the dig, as I wrote that at about 2 am my time, but it was motivated by the ridiculous claim that al Qaeda was an NGO. Equating Amnesty or any such organization with a terrorist group is about the worst bit of illogic I\'ve seen in a while.\r\n\r\nEither way, I still haven\'t been shown any connection between anti-Americanism and Amnesty, Trent (I won\'t get into Israel/Palestine because I\'m sick of arguing it). Is wanting to protect human rights anti-American? I think that while they may play on some anti-Americanism for fundraising, I really don\'t think that\'s the whole story. Think about it this way: an NGO needs donations to survive, and in order to retain donations, it has to maintain a high profile. What\'s more high profile than Iraq? So they send a team there to investigate, and release its findings. I won\'t comment on the validity of them, except to say that Amnesty hasn\'t been the only one reporting abuses. That doesn\'t mean they\'re accurate though.\r\n\r\nMeanwhile, Amnesty\'s other projects can benefit from the donations gleaned from such a high profile campaign. If you look at the Amnesty page, you\'ll see that their campaigns include Russian violence against women, Liberia, Guatemala, Myanmar\'s problems..Sudan, Somalia, Burundi...in fact, the attacks on American interests are about Iraq, Guantanemo, and the death penalty. Hardly a case for anti-Americanism, or for the sworn enemy status Trent ascribes to them.','2003-07-21 20:17:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4688,1,3798,'192.31.192.5','Ray','ray@princeton.edu','http://campuscgi.princeton.edu/~ray/weblog/','I don\'t get it -- a reporter tells a story smearing Blair, which is then discredited by the sole source for the story, and people are asking *Blair* to resign? \r\n\r\nI think I\'m missing something here ...','2003-07-21 20:32:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4689,1,3794,'194.27.19.97','zhermit','zhermit@mehmag.org','http://www.mehmag.org/blog/','OK, I\'ll take the bait.\r\n\r\nWeapons systems will develop no matter what. They will be developed by friends and foes alike, and will be vulnerable in either situation to nefarious use. That\'s just reality. I didn\'t respond to that part because you\'re accurate in it, ForNow.\r\n\r\nIt\'s your prescriptions that I find contentious. We simply don\'t have the resources to sustain the kind of attacks you envision - we can\'t attack every despot whenever a few government officials believe they are a threat. It is precisely this kind of action that leads to more terrorism. Terrorists, especially of the extremist Islamic breed, don\'t necessarily see the disposing of a ruler sympathetic to their cause as a devastating event. There are always more places to hide, more regions filled with strife to exploit.\r\n\r\nWhich brings me to my point about the IMF, and cutting aid to countries that don\'t adopt its policies. Building social and economic justice in poorer nations is intrinsic to the defeat of terrorism, because the social inequalities that plague much of the world are the motivation for a lot of the world\'s terrorism - or, at least, a great recruitment pitch. For example, it\'s easy for bin Laden to draw on Arab anger over Iraqis killed by American troops or international sanctions, the Palestine question, or other injustices, real or perceived.\r\n\r\nSo we can fight the information war, and remove the recruiting impetus. In order to fight that battle, we have to ensure that we, or our allies in the government, private, or other sectors, are doing our best to eliminate it. Thus, enforce strict adherance to IMF programs, and make sure that they are designed to actually help the country in question. If not, starve the government, but help the citizens. If the citizenry sees help coming from an external source, it will look more to that source than to the government. This is how the Muslim Brotherhood, which, despite its valid charity work, has spawned several terrorist organizations, gained credibility. Governments, especially Arab governments that don\'t have a tight rein on their population anyway, will notice their control slipping, and will do what they can to keep in power. This could mean terrorism, but proper diplomacy can (hopefully) efectively negate such avenues. ForNow, I definately agree with you that there is no one-size-fits-all approach to terrorism. I do believe, however, there is a general framework that we should follow, at the very least so that we have something to guide our actions. Moral consistency is most relevant when you are trying to develop an international image, which is intrinsic to the defeat of terrorism (keeping allies, defeating the pr war, etc.) Quick question, though: how does the removal of Saddam help Pakistan fight terrorism?\r\n\r\nArmed Liberal, it\'s interesting that you chastise me for insults, when you closed your response with one. No matter. I\'m actually kind of shocked at how far you\'ve swung to the right since you had your own site, but maybe I didn\'t pay attention enough back then.\r\n\r\nAnyway, we\'ve been sending strike teams into other countries for years, laws or no laws. We\'ve sent cruise missiles into Afghanistan and Yemen, bombed Sudan, etc. in the pursuit of terrorists. Strike teams are less likely to cause the kind of international dissent that a war that much of the world disagrees with does. Of course, they are likely to cause an international incident, and I admit that I\'m not quite sure what to do about that. I realize that this whole idea isn\'t necessarily fleshed out, but time, space, etc. restraints prevail.\r\n\r\nTo the article discussion-\r\nOne of the key elements to any terrorist fight is to have strict controls on who exactly is a terrorist. \"Is the drug maker, who is obviously a horrible person, a terrorist?\":http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031770123475&path=!frontpage&s= And how can we be sure that we\'re making the right decisions when we attack suspected terrorists? \r\n\r\nThat\'s why I think terrorists should be persecuted somewhere between crime and war. An open criminal court offers too much leeway, a military tribunal offers too little. And I realize that the military strikes idea offers none. Admittedly, I don\'t know how to balance out the two. I suspect, however, that it will be one of those double standards that will have to prevail.','2003-07-21 21:06:21','2005-07-19 18:44:45',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4690,1,3796,'68.173.17.112','Joe Maller','joe@joemaller.com','http://www.joemaller.com','Has anyone pursued confirmation of this letter\'s legitimacy? \r\n\r\nI saw a slightly different version a few days ago on another site (who knows where, I read too many). Notable omissions I remember include no mention of the Democrats or references to Hillary Clinton.\r\n\r\nThis alternate version may might be a copy of the version I saw before. (no mention of date, but parallels what I remember seeing)\r\n\r\nI want to believe this, but it does say just about everything supporters of the war want to hear. The earlier version may have been edited to appeal to a broader political audience or this page\'s version might have been expanded to reinforce a more conservative, republican-leaning audience. Either way, the differences are troubling and I would hate for this to be a hoax.','2003-07-21 21:14:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4691,1,3800,'35.9.86.30','jim k','jim.kruse@ht.msu.edu','','Perhaps I am slow or just missing something here.\r\nAll of these rights being claimed would seem to end at our border.\r\n\r\nHow is it that simply because the US Armed forces are on the ground in Iraq that the full range of our constitution is also considered in effect.\r\n\r\nsigned, puzzled in Michigan','2003-07-21 21:30:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4692,1,3800,'12.232.109.146','Rhesa','rhesaslair@yahoo.com','','\"This is a test of our rights -- of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly -- and we will press those to the full extent,\" San Francisco activist Medea Benjamin tells the Chronicle.\r\n\r\n\r\nUmm - those are rights they are privileged to hold, certainly.\r\n\r\nBut they\'re in Iraq right now, not the U.S.\r\n\r\nIsn\'t that reasoning rather shoddy to explain their presence in Iraq as of this moment, then?','2003-07-21 21:36:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4693,1,3800,'12.232.109.146','Rhesa','rhesaslair@yahoo.com','','GMTA, Jim...','2003-07-21 21:37:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4694,1,3794,'138.133.17.10','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','OK, a discussion breaks out! Cool.\r\n\r\nzhermit, you raise an array of points, so let me pick the ones I see as central and see where they go. First, please understand that I don\'t think that uncertainty, as you\'ve expressed it, is at all out of place in discussions like this. Personally, I\'m much more comfortable in a discussion where the participants are free to say \"I\'m not sure exactly what it is but it seems kind of like this\" than one filled with make-believe exactitude.\r\n\r\nHere\'s what I took as your core points:\r\n\r\n1. Cutting off the roots of terrorism through economic development. \"Which brings me to my point about the IMF, and cutting aid to countries that don\'t adopt its policies. Building social and economic justice in poorer nations is intrinsic to the defeat of terrorism, because the social inequalities that plague much of the world are the motivation for a lot of the world\'s terrorism - or, at least, a great recruitment pitch.\"\r\n\r\n2. Covert operations as the root of future policy. \"...we\'ve been sending strike teams into other countries for years, laws or no laws. We\'ve sent cruise missiles into Afghanistan and Yemen, bombed Sudan, etc. in the pursuit of terrorists. Strike teams are less likely to cause the kind of international dissent that a war that much of the world disagrees with does. Of course, they are likely to cause an international incident, and I admit that I\'m not quite sure what to do about that.\" \r\n\r\n3. Treatment of anti-terrorist campaigns and ROE and treatment of captured terrorist suspects. \"..how can we be sure that we\'re making the right decisions when we attack suspected terrorists? \r\nThat\'s why I think terrorists should be persecuted somewhere between crime and war.\"\r\n\r\nI think those are pretty close to right; please correct me as necessary.\r\n\r\nI think you\'re wrong about 1) - i.e. the facts on the ground don\'t support your case; I partially agree with 2), with a number of caveats; and I largely agree with you on 3). Let me flesh it out slightly.\r\n\r\nThis is getting long for a comment, so I\'ll append four, each dealing with one point, and then a wrapup.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-21 21:57:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4695,1,3799,'12.213.53.95','MO','nospamformo@yahoo.com','','Parts of this may be good, but I can not take seriously someone who states the following:\r\n\r\n\"First, an unadmitted contempt for democracy. The U.S. is the world\'s most successful democracy.\"\r\n\r\nAcutally, we are the most successful Constitutional Republic. Big Difference, such as lack of mob rule.\r\n\r\nMO \r\n','2003-07-21 22:08:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4696,1,3794,'138.133.17.8','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','1. Cutting off the roots of terrorism through economic development. \"Which brings me to my point about the IMF, and cutting aid to countries that don\'t adopt its policies. Building social and economic justice in poorer nations is intrinsic to the defeat of terrorism, because the social inequalities that plague much of the world are the motivation for a lot of the world\'s terrorism - or, at least, a great recruitment pitch.\"\r\n\r\nFrom this article in TNR:Most significantly, we have considered data from a public-opinion poll conducted in the West Bank and Gaza Strip by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PCPSR). In December 2001, Palestinians were asked whether they supported attacks on Israeli civilian and military targets, and about whether they considered certain incidents acts of terrorism. Breaking down the data by education and occupation indicates that support for violence against Israeli targets is widespread in the Palestinian population, and at least as great among those with higher education and higher living standards as it is among the unemployed and the illiterate. Similarly, a review of the incidence of major terrorist acts over time in Israel, and an analysis that relates the number of terrorist acts each year to the rate of economic growth in that year or in the recent past, yields the same skepticism about the idea that poverty is a cause of terrorism.
Other, similar studies abound, while I really can\'t find any social science that contradicts them. Now this doesn\'t mean that poverty isn\'t a rationalization for terrorism; in fact, I think that the economic inequalities in the world are a large part of the moral, aesthetic revulsion that drives terrorism in my view. I\'ve written a bunch about it, here, here, and here.\r\n\r\nSo I don\'t think it is poverty that is the engine of terror, as much as \"injustice\", which I put into quotes because it is the perception of injustice that I think is a component of the fuel that drives people toward terrorism.\r\n\r\nNow I haven\'t studies international economics a lot in a long time, but it seems to me that the history of the IMF isn\'t one that would make me comfortable that it is an instrument of social justice as much as one in support of stable financial markets. There\'s a lot to discuss there, but time, space, etc.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n','2003-07-21 22:14:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4697,1,3796,'198.11.22.205','KC','neopolitik@hotmail.com','','I just got forwarded a copy of this letter. It appears to be the same except that my copy is missing the first few paragraphs and begins with the line \"I\'m no longer...\"','2003-07-21 22:15:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4698,1,3797,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','NGO\'s too obey Trent\'s \"suit theory\" as he described it concerning the National Rifle Association\'s \"cop-killer\" bullet fuss. I.e., the first rule of NGO\'s is to perpetuate their own existence, which means fund-raising comes first. Normal political rules then kick in that NGO\'s thereafter favor the interests of the contributors who keep them in existence in preference over whatever their original mission had been.\r\n\r\nSo look at NGO\'s in terms of who they get their money from. Which leads to a most interesting result if the following quote from the first article is accurate - \"The European Union spends as much as fifteen percent of its total budget in support for NGOs, and prominent organizations have budgets of hundreds of millions of dollars\":\r\n\r\nThe NGO\'s aren\'t our enemy. The European Union is our enemy.','2003-07-21 22:16:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4699,1,3794,'199.196.144.12','Ian','ian@fiercehighway.com','http://www.fiercehighway.com','zhermit -- in re: using the IMF to fight terrorism. \r\n\r\nThis just really isn\'t a plausible tactic. Economic inequality simply isn\'t a driving force for terrorism. Even those groups who espouse Marxist-Leninist ideology resort to terrorism to demostrate the strength and reach of the working class. Most often, those people are recruited at universities, the home of the educated and priveleged (in so much as they don\'t have to work for subsistence living). While I think it\'s true that changes in economic position can result in a move towards certain forms of terrorism, it simply isn\'t a causal factor on its own. The loans the IMF offers are almost always of the last-resort variety, keeping a country barely afloat, not enriching a specific class (though the need for a loan may well be because of exploitation by a class). It just wouldn\' be possible to starve the government and help the people -- since both sides would have to be pretty much at the starvation point to qualify for IMF assistance. Besides, IMF regulations are simply attempts to get some fiscal responsibility in place -- and has little to do with the populations. Inequality usually isn\'t addressed--stopping the reckless printing of money, faulty bookkeeping, spending habits, etc. is.\r\n\r\nRecruiting is usually easier among the moderately well off, since they are the ones who have fuzzier ideas about the sacrifice a commitment to terrorism requires, and overvalue their ability to enact change. The truly destitute see no hope at all. Throughout Africa there are horrendous wars being fought, but without much traditional \"terrorism\" (and I don\'t classify things that make people afraid as terrorism). if inequality was a cause, then we should see more of it in places where inequality is the most pronounced. The poorest people in Ethiopia during its famines rarely if ever resorted to terrorism. There just wasn\'t an ability. By contrast, Saudi Arabia operates a massive welfare state, such there is a massive group of people without work, but surviving just fine. SA is a much richer target for terrorist recruiting. \r\n\r\nArab anger over Iraq or Palestine focuses more on a perceived occupation rather than inequality. The Israelis are occupying Palestinian/Arab land unlawfully. Indians were occupying land that belonged to the Sikhs. Britain occupy Northern Ireland. Russia occupies Chechen/Muslim lands. And through \"cultural imperialism\" (which I don\'t actually believe exists), the West and the US occupy most of the world. Bernard Lewis calls this sense of displacement in the Islamic world \"shame\" -- for having lost preeminence. But whatever it\'s called, it\'s one of the most common features of all terrorism: the sense of displacement and a drive to regain/demonstrate control. The trouble is, the only complete solution that works in the minds of terrorists is retreat. But when kids in Iran smuggle in Motley Crue tapes and Jessica Simpson posters, how do you \"get America out\"? \r\n\r\nMore IMF money is simply more occupation, in the minds of people bent on seeing the world this way. It\'s a handout from a corrupt world order, according to Islamic fundamentalists. No amount of aid to either the state or the people, however it is doled out, will be acceptible. Hezbollah, Hamas, the IRA, Shining Path, Tamil Tigers -- none of these are groups that look to their governments for support, or could be wooed away from their current tactics by third party loans. Nor would those they recruit from. \r\n\r\nMoral consistency isn\'t much help against those who think you\'re immoral no matter what you do. No, we don\'t have the resources, or the reason, to go after every dictator in the world. But there is good reason to confront the situation on the same grounds as those who initiated it: as a war. \r\n','2003-07-21 22:17:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4700,1,3794,'194.27.19.97','zhermit','zhermit@mehmag.org','http://www.mehmag.org/blog/','Actually, A.L., you sum up what I mean about poverty and social injustice. One of the largest recruitment centers for Al Qaeda is London - where generally better off Muslims eventually are upset by the relative poverty of their friends and family back home. Besides recruitment, this is also a great means for raising money, whether the donator realizes its for terrorism or believes its simply going to help the poor.\r\n\r\nI still think that this means that attacking poverty/injustice is the best way of cutting out support for terrorism. Without injustice, a large part of terrorist support, at least with the general populace (if not some extremists). Injustice and poverty often go hand in hand, but that doesn\'t mean that one necessarily means another, or doesn\'t. You linked to a survey* that discusses the effects of a lack of civil liberties, rather than poverty, on terrorist creation. I think it\'s far too general. Saudi Arabia, for example, has great wealth, but a really low (and shrinking) per capita income. On the other hand, many of the Saudi 9/11 terrorists came from a region near the Yemenese border that has never fully accepted Saud family rule or control. \r\n\r\nThat\'s not to say that we shouldn\'t fight social injustice. It\'s just that poverty\'s easier, and a more emotive cause for the terrorist support base. It\'s easier to get support for poverty than for a lack of freedom when you\'re a Salafi preacher. Remember, Islam requires Muslims to give charity to the less fortunate.\r\n\r\nThe IMF has had problems, of course. I just believe that internationalism is the best approach, lending legitimacy and garnering support from other countries so that we don\'t have to bear the full burden. The problems of the IMF can be fixed; it\'s always easier to reform than to create.\r\n\r\nForgive the sporadic nature of this post, but it\'s late where I\'m at, and I\'m getting tired. I think there was more I was going to add, but I don\'t remember anymore.\r\n\r\n*I deliberately didn\'t talk about the Palestine issue because I don\'t classify it as international terrorism in the same way that Al Qaeda is international terrorism. (I still view it as terrorism, just a bit different.) There is a similar resurgence in support among middle class Hindus in India against Indian Muslims. I think both of these need to be viewed in their context, and the limited nature of their scope. Maybe I\'ll talk more about what I mean later, since it would require me to go into a discussion on terrorism history, classification, etc.; in the meantime, I\'m tired, and I\'m going to bed.','2003-07-21 22:41:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4701,1,3800,'24.156.168.23','marek','mmm@rogers.com','','This is the exactly the money quote:\r\n\"I wonder why they waited until after the fall of Saddam to set up their human rights shop in downtown Baghdad.\"\r\nIsn\'t it amazing that all these protesters protest only where there is a decent civil rule.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-21 23:03:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4702,1,3799,'206.103.33.110','sblafren','sblafren@yahoo.com','http://seanlafreniere.blogspot.com','Many grains of truth in this sandbox.','2003-07-21 23:05:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4703,1,3797,'198.26.123.36','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Tom,\r\n\r\nOne of the first rules of bureaucracy is \"People are policy.\"\r\n\r\nIf NGOs are filled with people who make the fund raisers ideologically happy. Then what is the policy difference between the fund raisers and the NGOs?','2003-07-21 23:28:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4704,1,3794,'24.193.224.92','ForNow','twexclor@yahoo.com','http://4now.blogspot.com','I haven’t suggested that our policy be war against “every despot whenever a few government officials believe they are a threat.” In particular, the talk of the belief of “few government officials” is contentious & is an echo of even greater contentiousness regarding what “we feel” in your earlier post. But even substituting in place of those fanciful references the reality of the UN resolutions & US Congress’s approval, it is obviously not feasible. If there were no limits imposed by questions of feasibility, we could immediately invade & occupy Libya, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc., set about reforming their societies, repairing or improving their infrastructures, imposing democracy & personal, religious, & economic freedoms, eliminating bigotries (especially Muslim bigotry), & making everyone involved ecstatically happy in the process. But it’s not feasible.\r\n\r\nThere was a decrease in terrorism in 2002, despite the invasion of Afghanistan.\r\n\r\n* Report Says Terror Attacks Declined Sharply Last Year*, by David Gollust, Voice of America, 30 Apr 2003.\r\n\r\nBEGIN EXCERPT:\r\nThe State Department, in its annual report on global terrorism, says the number of terror attacks declined sharply last year due to increased international cooperation and resolve. Seven countries - Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Syria, and Sudan - were again listed as state sponsors of terrorism, though Iraq may soon come off the list. \r\n\r\nThe State Department says there were 199 terrorist attacks last year, a 44 percent drop from 2001 and the lowest figure in more than 30 years. \r\nEND EXCERPT.\r\n\r\nStiffened resolve, diligent diplomacy, & the demonstration of the will & ability to make war, help us in the fight against terrorism. Inaction clearly produces no pressure against terrorism. It appears rather to invite it. Of course some terrorists will increase recruitment & make other responses. They will attempt to fight us. But they will fight us one way or another no matter what we do.\r\n\r\nBefore the war in Iraq I spoke with a professional\r\nhistorian who insisted that the Muslim street would explode throughout the Muslim world if we invaded. It did not explode, & those in the Muslim world with access to television learned at length that “their” news network Al Jazeerah lied hugely & did so in order to make Saddam look good.\r\n\r\nActually there are finite number of regions with more strife to exploit.\r\n\r\nAs terrorists are driven to remaining regions they will explore new possibilities. A connection between Saddam’s regime & Pakistani terrorists is no longer a possibility. The very reduction of terrorists’ options helps long-term in various ways to help Pakistan fight terrorism, to the extent that Pakistan really does so. It reduces the terrorists’ pool of options AND lets us devote more attention to their remaining options. Of course they will seek to discover or develop NEW options, but these will tend to be inferior to the options they already saw fit to rely on. As for more specific connections between Saddam & Pakistani terrorists, I wouldn’t know. And those things are good enough, in view of all the good it’s doing nearer to & in Iraq.\r\n\r\nGiven that I said “The removal of Saddam’s regime can reasonably be expected to help against Saudi Arabia, Syria, & Palestinian terrorist groups. It already appears to be doing so.” & didn’t single Pakistan out as a place where it would help in some specific way, I think my general answer is good enough to defend my argument anyway.\r\n\r\nThe IMF is not a proven reliable tool for economic improvement. Subjecting countries more harshly to it could be counterproductive & harm hundreds of millions of people. Improving economies by encouraging free speech & free enterprise it the right idea. A lot hangs on the success of Iraq because there could hardly be a better example, if it works, to be set before a cynical & suspicious Muslim world. It’s hard to know what to do about Pakistan economically, its government & economy are incredibly corrupt & are a sickness that has deeply infected the culture. Rule of law is not established by a piece of paper alone.\r\n\r\nIt is not very feasible to starve the government while feeding the people, when the government has its fingers in everything. Nor can the attempt to do so make much progress against the propaganda which a government, with its control of the media, will launch against us in that situation. And where the IMF fails or its measures lead to difficult economic adjustment, the governments will finger us as among the parties guilty of the people’s suffering. Capitalism itself comes under attack by extension from its supposed representative the IMF or private banks that have made big loans to those countries. Etc. Generally it is not social inequalities but some ideological explanations of social inequalities that motivate some comparatively well-off individuals in troubled societies to join the terrorist subculture. And what makes common people angry is not the idea that others have more but that they’ve been ripped off, particularly by those others.\r\n\r\nAgain, things like a successful renewal of Iraq will do more to improve politics & economics in nearby countries. The terrorists & despots want Muslims to think that Muslims need or can use terrorists. If the terrorists & despots show they can’t win the fight against us because we’re too damned big & strong, & if Muslims see that there is much in the Western alternative that works better even for Muslim societies, then that is better in the long run, because then the terrorists, the hatemongering mullahs, etc., are seen starkly to be useless. It’s been said many times, but it’s true, that worrying about an otherwise good policy’s making terrorists & despots angry, is merely to give in to them & to reward them & their games & to give them strategic ways to fight back. Strength & resolve impresses the Muslim world, including its cranky despots & its less ambitious dictators alike. As Bush said, perseverance is power. The bad guys will fear us & the less-bad or good guys will take greater seeming risks for us—as long as we by our strength & reliability reduce those risks. They are NOT culturally disposed to be impressed by our generosity & social services alone. They also need to be made aware that they can’t screw with us.\r\n\r\nI think we have been morally about as consistent as we can be. We’ve certainly tried to look out for the common people! There probably already is a framework of some sort in place, though I don’t know what it is. Despots & terrorists are not safely in chains, as prisoners each to be treated according to his or her own just deserts. Even in an established legal system able to protect all parties involved including itself, the prosecution may strike deals with various prisoners in order to get them all one way or another, though the result is that justice will not be perfectly meted out in accordance with their true just deserts. And in the present case we’re talking about folks who were not even under our control when deals are made. Idi Amin just died after forced long retirement in Saudi Arabia. His punishment should have been much worse. It is in order for the very protection of people from war & bloodshed that such deals may be made. That’s a part of the kind of optimization that I mentioned. We are not all-powerful & must husband our resources. I do think the US could be clearer about that, but it’s clear that the Administration is averse to spotlighting how our awareness of our limits factor into our decisions. Anyway, we have strengthened international pressure against Mugabe, the dictatorship of Myanmar (Burma), & Charles Taylor of Liberia. For now, though, our hands are mostly tied with the process of dealing with the threats on our plate. We will have many troops in Iraq for a while, for instance.\r\n\r\nI agree with you that moral consistency is most relevant when you are trying to develop an international image, which is intrinsic to the defeat of terrorism. For that very reason I prefer to fight the idea that we have displayed an unethical inconsistency, because this almost always sets the bar to a level that we cannot meet. We cannot morally have to do that which we cannot do at all. We can’t do everything, & we can’t do nothing.','2003-07-21 23:44:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4705,1,3801,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Oh freakin\' yeah. I\'ve got my fingers crossed - and have you noticed the recent public and news appearances from someone who was previously pretty firmly in the background?\r\n\r\nBring it on.','2003-07-21 23:58:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4706,1,3801,'63.88.212.164','Michael J. Totten','michaeltotten001@yahoo.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','Sigh. I\'d rather have Condi Rice than Dick Cheney, too. But I\'d rather have a decent Democratic Party.\r\n\r\nI can see that it could take a while.\r\n\r\nWho knows. By the end of this coming election I just might not care. I feel an acute bout of Centrism coming on...','2003-07-22 00:06:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4707,1,3801,'67.225.186.82','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','That\'s not all that sneaky; it\'s been bandied about before (in columns, musings on pundit shows, in blogs) and I\'m sure Rove knows about it. Bush isn\'t likely to do it; he seems to be big on reciprocal loyalty. Hell, he hasn\'t even canned people he should have canned, thus is unlikely to drop Cheney - Cheney, whatever one might think of him, has done everything Bush wanted.\r\n\r\nThe only way this happens is if Cheney decides not to run, essentially on his own. He might pull out something like this for political reasons; - and after all a political campaign involves political calculations so he could say health or pull out the classic \"spend more time with my family\" gag. He doesn\'t have to be VP to serve in some capacity, anyhow.\r\n\r\nHowever, if the Bush/Rice ticket appears, expect the level of viciousness in the campaign to go up exponentially. I already expect it to be waged very viciously. Mysterious fliers will be planted in the usual neighborhoods and rounds of mock-outrage shall ensew. Innuendos on Condi\'s personal life will be rife on certain urban radio stations (well, more rife than they already are). Certain folks already have Masters Degrees in \"De-Blacking\" people, and they will serve overtime in this one.\r\n\r\nWhen it\'s all over and the Politics of Personal Destruction Machine is done with her, Condi\'s reputation will have been devoured and utterly destroyed. I\'d say it\'s unclear whether, by the end of this process, she\'d be a \"plus\" or a \"minus\". I\'m doubting it\'s something she wants to go through, and she\'s a smart person and can look back at the sanguinary carnage from related past examples. I\'m sure she\'s aware that the treatment she\'s already experienced at the hands of members of the Open-Minded, Tolerant, Enlightened scions of Diversity will pale in comparison with the what she\'d have to look forward to if her name appeared on the ballot.\r\n\r\nFrom every indication, she has *ZERO* interest in electoral politics. I don\'t really blame her for sticking to policy.\r\n\r\nRepublicans who think that putting Condi Rice on the ticket would insure smooth sailing in \'04 have not reflected enough on these things, I think.\r\n\r\nMoving on, Vanderleun does make a point in that post which is somewhat related to a question I raised in an e-mail to you: given the direction you\'d like to see the Democrats go in, which would be more catastrophic to you: that the Democrats follow the path they\'re on and lose?\r\n\r\nOr that they follow that path and win? Something that I think is likely at this point, given the Machine is working in full gear already and with notable success already.','2003-07-22 00:22:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4708,1,3801,'67.225.186.33','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','One thing I forgot: for those who think they wouldn\'t go as far as I outlined - well, do you think they\'re going to face what Vanderleun & A.L. characterize as having the potential to destroy them and fight with every tactic they have resorted to in the past, and more?','2003-07-22 01:17:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4709,1,3801,'172.137.20.24','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','[...]the Democrats follow the path they\'re on and lose?\r\n\r\nOr that they follow that path and win? \r\n\r\nI realized the other day that I didn\'t want the Democrats to win, especially with the path they are persuing. I don\'t trust them on national security matters. In fact, I think they need to be taught a lesson. I\'m a liberal and I\'m beginning to hate the other \"liberals\".\r\n','2003-07-22 01:29:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4710,1,3801,'63.88.212.164','Michael J. Totten','michaeltotten001@yahoo.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','I hear ya, Linden. \r\n\r\nI still feel an attachment to the Democratic Party, but there\'s a huge chance this election will sever it.\r\n\r\nI will not, however, become a Republican. I\'m not swapping one party for another. If I quit one, I will quit them all. ','2003-07-22 01:39:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4711,1,3801,'172.137.20.24','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','We need a \'Scoop Jackson Society\' for pro-war liberals. \r\n\r\nI won\'t vote Democrat for president, but I will vote for Dems for COngress because I hate Bush\'s domestic policies.','2003-07-22 02:04:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4712,1,3796,'12.64.152.135','Tony Foresta','tonyforesta@hotmail.com','','Inspiring letter, - and I mean that with all sincerity. \r\n\r\nPerhaps it is time to re-embed the press, and report a more multilateral documentation of the ongoing nationbuilding enterprise, or the guerilla insurgency, or whatever you want to call our activities in Iraq. in the arab world gleefully send their teenage sons and daughters to slaughter, and be slaughter, - America sends our soldiers to defend freedom and combat crimes against humanity, and we grieve for every single soldier lost, or wounded. \r\n\r\nThe US military is unchallengeable. Yet, one of the least mentioned, but truly great triumphs of the lighting strike on Baghdad was the restraint and humanity American, and coalition soldiers exhibited during and after the resounding, swift, and ferocious victory. \r\n\r\nThe glaring contrast between the professionalism and humanity of American military operations and soldiers; the precise and exceptionally lethal strikes directed at specific threats and intent on minimizing collateral damage, - and the obviously quite different savagery, unholy depravity, perverted inhumanity, and mayhem, practiced by the malignant mass murderers of jihadist islam, was not unappreciated by other muslims and the entire world. Parents of slamic jihadist murderers in the arab world gleefully send their teenage sons and daughters to slaughter, and be slaughter, - America quite contrarilty sends our soldiers to defend freedom and combat crimes against humanity, and we grieve for every single soldier lost, or wounded, and some of us even dare to grieve for our enemies. \r\n \r\nThe American military is unchallengeable and honorable. \r\n\r\nIraq is a secular nation, and many Iraqi’s do not support, nor do they accept the insane mutation of islam proselytizing the death of every infidel as this soldier indirectly suggests. There is a significant difference between the malignant mutation of islamofascist ba’athist islam, and the other malignant mutation of islamofascist jihadist islam, and the two gangs are essentially adversarial and separate. These natural enemies will put aside their hatreds and blood lust for each other however, and happily join claws in killing Americans, or jews. There is also a significant difference between these perverted bloodthirsty murderers and the rest of islam. We must all remember this important truth. Our enemies are not arabs or Iraqi\'s, or muslims – but the \"islamofascist\" ba’athist and jihadist islamic mass murderers, and those that aid and abet them.\r\n \r\nI trust, - with soldiers like these, our mission - whatever it may be in Iraq - will be well executed and accomplished with professionalism and humanity.\r\n\r\nI wish Bush would be as honest as this soldier and square with America openly, sans embellishments and evangelism - and offer some candid explanation of the objectives, cost estimates, and timeframes, of the nationbuilding enterprise in Iraq. \r\n\r\nOur military, and the American people deserve no less. \r\n\r\nThe American military is unchallengeable, and the best of us. Our leadership on the other hand is a bit shady, suspect, and suffering currently in the area of credibility. \r\n\r\nWhat are the objectives in Iraq? \r\n\r\nNice link Emperor Misha I. I will sleep well tonight. \r\n','2003-07-22 03:11:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4713,1,3801,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Dammit, Porphy, I was hoping to skate by on your question.\r\n\r\nWould I rather have the Dems - as they exist today - win or lose?\r\n\r\nHemlock or cyanide ... hmmm. I\'ve been worrying at this question for six months, and still don\'t know how I feel about this.\r\n\r\nOn one hand, Bush is showing himself to be moving (or blundering) along a path at least parallel to one I can support in foreign military policy. \r\n\r\nOn the other, his domestic policy is aimed at turning the US into a bananna republic, where the 1.5% live in their haciendas while the rest of us compete with folks in the Third World on wages (note that this is a core process in the current economy; it\'s just that Bush thinks it a Good Thing). And when it comes to small government, he\'s certainly a believer in shrinking it...unless it serves or subsidizes large corporate interests, or buys him an electoral consituency, in which case the more the merrier. Don\'t get me started on civil liberties...\r\n\r\nOn one hand, the Democrats at least nominally are in favor of tax and fiscal policies that favor the middle-class, and they are nominally in favor of labor v. capital.\r\n\r\nOn the other, they are as enmeshed with their large donor base as the GOP - more enmeshed, actually, and their policies are aimed more at supporting the large institutions - teachers unions, etc. etc. than the middle class themselves. \r\n\r\nI want to see the Democratic Party remade.\r\n\r\nIt\'s not clear to me which way is the best path to that remaking. I know that\'s weaselling, and I apologize. But I really don\'t know.\r\n\r\nA.L. \r\n\r\n','2003-07-22 04:31:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4714,1,3796,'68.3.167.32','Dennis Slater','madjayhawk@yahoo.com','http://www.madjayhawk.blogspot.com','I will believe this is true before I will believe anything our media says. Their objectivity and truthfulness is in the toilet as far as I am concerned and too bad I can\'t reach the handle from here.','2003-07-22 04:45:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4715,1,3800,'64.222.18.48','John Anderson, RI USA','teqjack@wowmail.com','','Benjamin opposes a lengthy occupation, which she defined as five to 10 years.\r\n \r\nA glimmer of sense? Up to but not including five years OK? Will they admit it when they discover that Bechtel and others are more coordinators than exploiters, sub-contracting locally and not making a whole lot? That while Iraqis sensibly do not want an occupation, they equally sensibly do not want us out too quickly? \r\n \r\n = = = \r\nhttp://www.geocities.com/Broadway/1928/myth.htm\r\n\"Medea killed her brother and chopped his body into pieces\" which does not sond like a nice person. \r\nOTOH \"Creon, the King of Corinth retaliated by killing 13 of Medea’s 14 children\", it was not Medea herself killing them or wanting them dead. \r\n ','2003-07-22 04:46:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4716,1,3796,'203.151.8.41','Eye Opener','okay@knu2.com','','I have received similar letters emailed from the front, none this recently, but a similar series of trustworthy, on-the-spot first-person accounts can be found at Kim du Toit\'s blog...\r\n\r\nMy sources came from children of ex-spooks I know and share with... children who are serving on-board one of the aircraft carriers; children who are on the ground near An-Nasiriyeh; children who\'re stationed in Baghdad... \r\n\r\nOverall, I find nothing to disbelieve in what\'s reported here. Sooner or later we \'are\'-\'in place of\' (be-lief ; to be, in place of someone else), and I can be-lief this reporter. His comments run in close congruence to what Mark Steyn observed and reported, and what my other in-country/in-theater sources have reported:\r\n\r\n\"Its tough, but we\'re making headway on ALL fronts, against the ongoing cowardice and brutish anger of holdouts who (e.g.) cut the waterlines after we\'ve repaired them...\" \r\n\r\n\"Iraqis, teens prominent among them, see with their own eyes that we are compassionate, courageous, committed and caring... and they are attracted to us.\"\r\n\r\nFine in my book. I\'m proud to be an American, in support of these efforts in Iraq and elsewhere.','2003-07-22 04:54:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4717,1,3796,'203.151.8.41','Straight_Talk','okay@knu2.com','','Thanks for getting the message out. The \'media\' have rung their own death knell... may they choke with shame for their duplicitous, slanderous, defamatory and calumniating efforts world-wide!\r\n\r\nKeep up the good work!\r\n\r\n(Did I mention obfuscating, equivocating, pusillanimous, whining, mean, fear-driven, cowardly and two-faced in regards to the media? I didn\'t think so...)','2003-07-22 05:02:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4718,1,3796,'162.84.240.24','Bill Dalasio','wdalasio@verizonmail.com','','Don\'t know where your friend is from or what his background is. But if he\'s in the NYC area and has any background with databases tell him to e-mail me. I might know a couple of possibilities. At the end of the day, it never hurts to give a hero a shot.\r\nWCD','2003-07-22 05:05:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4719,1,3799,'64.222.18.48','John Anderson','teqjack@wowmail.com','','de Toqueville wrote of his - and the still-prevailing Euro - vision of the US as a people who kept trying to get/achieve more: he, and current Euros, could not understand why anyone would want more than had been allotted to them by their place in society at birth. Such an attitude is incomprehensible, thus unnatural, suspect, and feared; destructive of the natural order; generative of social upheaval; dangerous to the establishment; unwilling to follow orders without thinking; etc. \r\n \r\nIn short, everything that despots have wanted to stamp out since the first tribal chief. The strange thing to us, of course, is that they do not see themselves as despots. \r\n \r\nBut then, nor did Atilla so view himself. \r\n ','2003-07-22 05:19:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4720,1,3797,'67.70.60.138','angua','anguankNOSPAM@netscape.net','http://angua.blogspot.com','zhermit, must be tough to argue the Israel/Palestine question when the opponents keep hitting you with facts, eh? No wonder you are tired.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33562','2003-07-22 05:59:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4721,1,3802,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Read it. What was a bit surprising to me was the total lack of anything approaching nmilitary-related analysis in either post. \r\n\r\nIs increasing the size of the military a bad idea? Gee, you\'d think some understanding of the military\'s potential uses, rotational needs, active threats, and rough capacity required would be offered in response. Instead, all we get is shallow pap about military means are not the solution to terrorism, and I don\'t want to write Bush a blank check. BTW, he\'s also factually when he asserts that America has the world\'s largest military. Um, hello, does the name \"China\" ring a bell?\r\n\r\nI\'m sorry, A.L., I like Calpundit but that\'s just stunningly shallow. On anything to do with military matters, he\'s not informed and not serious. Calpundit wrote a post intended to be about solutions, but instead they\'re a good illustration of why liberals are taken less and less seriously on national security issues these days.','2003-07-22 06:45:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4722,1,3801,'172.137.20.24','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','I want to see the Democratic Party remade.\r\n\r\nMe too. But that\'s why I also think they need to suffer an ignominious defeat in the next cycle. I see too many people in denial who need a serious reality check.','2003-07-22 07:03:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4723,1,3794,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Why not go after Saudi Arabia, you ask? Sounds good to me! Having Iraq taken care of helps a lot, too - makes the Saudis much easier to take care of. \r\n\r\nOnly question for me is timing and ideal means to choose. The Bush family seems to have more reservations and closer ties, though. One wonders why this hasn\'t become more of an issue, but if you see terrorism as all about police action & poverty, well, you\'ll miss stuff like the Saudi role every time and continue to do so. If you see it as a war, however... that opens the door to some very interesting questions the Democrats could be asking.\r\n\r\nPakistan is best dealt with via an America - India - Pakistan triangulation that keeps the pressure on for some action (we\'ve bagged a few biggies thanks to them, we could have many more but let\'s start there) and forces ISI state support to a lower level. Which is what\'s happening now. Given their nuclear arsenal and situation with (also-nuclear armed) India, more forceful options at this time would be unwise to say the least.','2003-07-22 07:38:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4724,1,3803,'172.129.45.109','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','joe, im going to forward you an email from a conversation i was having with bennett haselton (anti-censorware activist and a programmer for the circumventor project) and a friend of mine is going to be blogging about all of this later this morning, so i will pass that along also.\r\n\r\njust figured id give you a heads up here.','2003-07-22 09:04:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4725,1,3798,'66.91.195.252','Venomous Kate','comments@electricvenom.com','http://www.electricvenom.com','LJ - thanks, that\'s what I was looking for.\r\n\r\nRay, you\'re not missing a thing. It\'s absurdity at its finest. ','2003-07-22 11:23:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4726,1,3795,'64.222.18.48','John Anderson','teqjack@wowmail.com','','Liberia not a quagmire? Then how about [warning: non-pc term ahead] tar-baby? I hope we do not get involved, there or almost anywhere in Africa. It may seem cold-blooded, indeed it is cold-blooded, but short of [re-]establishing colonial power I see no way to improve the situation. Bad enough having co-religionists wanting to kill each other off (eg Huguenots vs Catholics), even worse \"ethnic cleansing\" among tribal groups - there is no way to even pretend conversion, nor to remain apart. \r\n \r\nLiberia, and Africa, scares me in ways North Korea and Saudi Arabia do not (Iran I actually consider hopeful, whether that seems believable or not: maintain a presence in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Supreme Council may eventually have to move their special troops to the borders - and the rest of the givernment, with regular amry and populace backing, will oust them), for being so fragmented. Any intervention would be faced with a Stalingrad style situation complicated by having the equivalent of every apartment block being just as happy to shoot its neighbors as the incoming troops. \r\n \r\nBack in the Seventies, I talked with a South African who was angry with the US and other embargoes and insistence upon immediate open participation and ending apartheid. He was all for ending apartheid, but not soon. He was shocked when I said it should, as a practice of ghettoization, probably end quickly but full participation might take a generation of spending as much on elementary-level schooling as on physical infrastructure, that if the adults arriving in the cities have never seen flush toilets it is the children who must bear the burden of hope for their future. I still feel that way, but also that a generation has now passed - if without the education I called for. \r\n ','2003-07-22 14:38:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4727,1,3803,'216.68.253.1','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com/','Mirroring and proxying.\r\n\r\nMirrors of static content will get around blocks aimed at the hosting sites; proxies will get around ALL blocks.\r\n\r\nAnyone know if there\'s an identifiable range of IPs for Iran? If so, people running Apache servers could easily set them up to allow Iranian to proxy off their servers.\r\n','2003-07-22 15:21:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4728,1,3802,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Joe, I certainly don\'t agree with Kevin on this, but I think he\'s done a service in concisely expressing the core \'belief set\' that our, more militant team needs to respond to.\r\n\r\nWhen we can structure equally concise compelling arguments that address these issues, we\'ll be a long way toward winning the day. I\'m working on some today.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-22 15:26:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4729,1,3796,'12.203.229.114','ErikZ','ezolan@ezolan.com','','Please try to confirm this letter.\r\n','2003-07-22 15:56:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4730,1,3801,'12.203.229.114','ErikZ','ezolan@ezolan.com','','\r\nGive me a break. Since 9/11 people have been practically BATHING in reality. When Bush wins in 2004, maybe a few will actually pause and think, but the vast majority will just come up with some excuse to cling to their beliefs.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-22 16:31:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4731,1,3803,'172.162.194.66','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','actually the circumventor project is a very effective proxy method that can be run from any comp running a dsl or cable modem. it was developed in the past year to fight against chinese and saudi censorship (with us gov backing for the project) and is effective in dealing with everything from library censorware in smalltown america to iranian blog blocking.\r\n\r\nam in the middle of working with leen from http://saoirse.oige.net on some detail work for an entry about this now. although the breaking news about the hussein sons is competing for attention at the moment.\r\n\r\nin the meantime, more info about circumventor can be found here: http://www.peacefire.org','2003-07-22 17:42:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4732,1,3805,'209.198.120.151','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','I would have preferred they be caught alive, but dead is OK, too.','2003-07-22 17:45:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4733,1,3801,'198.26.123.36','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','A.L.,\r\n\r\n Eric Z has a point.\r\n\r\n I fear that the money men in the Democratic Party driving the leftward tilt of the Democratic primaries are not reality based. They are working from a fantasy ideology as strong as that of Al-Qaeda.\r\n\r\n They have a locked in Vietnam era world view that keeps seizing every opportunity to express their views to reduce their guilt for being pro-communist/anti-military/American-hating rather than simply being against a stupid war that was getting fellow citizens pointlessly killed.\r\n\r\n The former position is filled with guilt and the latter is not.\r\n\r\n Stupid anti-war politics as a form of public confession is going to taint the Democratic Party with the mark of treason. \r\n\r\n This is from the Jerome Zeifman, the Democratic chief counsel of the House Judiciary Committee during the Nixon impeachment proceedings, from Insight Magazine:\r\n\r\n\"With Democratic propaganda spreading widely, at least one prominent conservative, Paul Weyrich, chairman of the Free Congress Foundation, now is advising the White House to be prepared for the introduction of impeachment resolutions. Based on my own experience with impeachment politics, I agree with his advice.\r\n\r\nIn my case, I believe that political parties that thrive on demagoguery destroy themselves. These days I fear that the Democratic Party that I have known for 60 years now may be close to extinction.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-22 17:45:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4734,1,3801,'67.225.186.4','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Clearly we differ on domestic policy, A.L., but we can quibble over that another time.\r\n\r\nThe thing of it is, the key to what you say is \"want the Democratic party to be remade\".\r\n\r\nVictorious parties don\'t go in for much remaking. It\'s the wilderness that causes reflection. Victorious parties go with what works; what works is what brought them victory in the first place. The foreign policy & security front is, I think we can agree, where the Dems have the biggest problems. we can then quibble over domestic policy and whose policies entrench things and exacerbate economic problems another time; oh, and another thing being forgotten is that Clinton was for open trade, too, until his knees buckled in the face of the Seattle Disorders in \'99; his record is actually better on that score while Bush has promoted policies to \"protect\" our workers from having to compete with foreign producers, things like the Steel Tarriff - and it is beyond economic dispute that such policies, while they save identifiable jobs, end up costing more people jobs and income than they protect; by huge orders of magnitude. It\'s just that the costs are harder to point to and identify than the benefitiaries are. Och, and I wasn\'t going to get into this. Back to the matter at hand:\r\n\r\nThe Dems underwent some introspection of this sort in the \'80s, leading to \'92, but clearly it didn\'t take - they\'ve, unfortunately, reverted to type; \'70s type, that is, not the long tradition of Democratic strength on foreign policy represented by Truman & JFK.\r\n\r\nVictory in these terms will make the sort of forces you bemoan smugly assure of themselves, and as for domestic policy smoking craters are not good for the livelyhoods of the rich, middle, or poor.\r\n\r\nAs for civil liberties, lots are forgetting the extent to which *BOTH* parties have dirty hands on this - many of the things pointed to now had their origin in the Clinton years, Clinton era legislation pushed by the Clinton justice department, usually related to the war on crime, and that currently members of both parties promote legislation that undermine civil liberties. The abhored \"Patriot Act\" was largely cobbled together from legislative proposals that had been laying around for years - well into the Clinton era - and was passed with massive bipartisan support. There are only a few standouts on either side. The only difference is that the Ds are better at escaping responsibility/blame for their votes than the Rs are. (We\'re not to consider them responsible for what they vote for, not in the same way we\'re supposed to hold Republicans responsible).\r\n\r\nBut the key point remains that the Democrats will not undergo the remaking you seek if they win, and if one sincerely believes their security policy would leave us at graver risk than the alternative, then one has to ask if that\'s a risk one wants to take.\r\n\r\nIt\'s a matter of priorities and perspectives; one has to prioritize.\r\n\r\nIn any case, as I\'ve written, their are alternatives to either continuing to support the current Dems, or abandoning them and voting R, or simply abandoning all parties. The problem is it\'s probably too late in this cycle to take those paths because they take work and time; out activisting the activists and pulling Democratic candidates towards the direction you want. Vocally making yourselves something they have to pay attention to and cater to, not the current audience they are playing to.\r\n\r\nThat could have been done by \'04 if enough people started such pressure and more importantly maintained it much earlier than they have. If that had been done sooner, then guys like Gephardt and Lieberman wouldn\'t have had to position themselves as they have, they would have had a different constituency to woo.\r\n\r\nAt this stage in the cycle, though, it\'s touch and go. It\'s perhaps still worth a shot. But the dies are pretty well cast in many respects already, and one of the main reasons for having to start earlier is that it takes time to build up something that amounts to a movement.\r\n\r\nThere was a really good oportunity, IMO, in the wake of Sept. 11th for the Democratic party to remake itself in the exact way you want it to. I hate to be blunt, but you all missed that opportunity; which is a tragedy that IMO affects us all, but not one that surprises me (but, then, I\'m a gloomy pessimist overall).','2003-07-22 18:00:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4735,1,3801,'67.225.186.4','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','See also here.\r\n\r\nWhat I\'m really hoping is that someone will get goaded into standing up to the forces among the D\'s that you are decrying. Someone\'s gotta be a Tony Blair here and some folks are going to have to make potential Democratic \"Tony Blair\'s\" see that he (or she) won\'t be alone, that there is a strong Democratic constituency out there that will *actively* and *firmly* support that person in the ways that the negative forces are highly active and organized out of proportion of their numbers, among Democrats not just the population as a whole in pushing things the wrong direction.','2003-07-22 18:05:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4736,1,3805,'67.225.186.4','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Well, a surprising source has caught some of these guys. Read this news. And I never thought that organization was worth a darn, but they\'ve bagged quite a catch!','2003-07-22 18:23:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4737,1,3805,'207.168.131.116','Dave','u_smile_at_me@hotmail.com','http://smileatme.blogspot.com','Interesting but diversionary. It doesn\'t change what the U.S. did or how it chose to do it. I hope this will contribute to some peace for the sake of the Iraqis','2003-07-22 20:32:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4738,1,3194,'165.196.140.210','Mark','1564cool@yaho.com','','Boyce got no money for the book.','2003-07-22 20:38:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4739,1,3806,'216.68.253.1','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com/','On their strongest card, the war on terrorism, I think that they are just flat blowing the defense side of the equation, and moving the country a step or two toward abandoning our civil liberties.\r\n\r\nHonestly, that\'s not happening now any faster than it has happened any time in the last twenty years. \"No knock\" warrants, civil forfeiture, abuse of eminent domain and the like are more troubling than anything that has been passed since 9-11.\r\n\r\nHeck, the dumbass \"RAVE\" act is more troubling than a rational look at the \"Patriot\" act, and it wasn\'t connected to the war at all.','2003-07-22 21:11:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4740,1,3805,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','P... OK, that one was pretty funny.','2003-07-22 21:27:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4741,1,3806,'63.88.212.164','Michael J. Totten','michaeltotten001@yahoo.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','I\'ll have to think about this for a while. It\'s really hard to say. The Primary will change everything. The general election will change everything. And then the post-election will change everything again.\r\n\r\nThe situation isn\'t going to sit still for some time, which is the biggest reason I don\'t know what to make of it all yet. I know what I think *today* but I don\'t know what I will think six months or a year from now.\r\n\r\nThe only thing I know for sure is that no matter what happens I will not become a Republican. Leaving the party for the Independent center is on the table, though.','2003-07-22 21:36:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4742,1,3194,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Very glad to hear that.','2003-07-22 21:46:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4743,1,3806,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','A.L.,\r\n\r\nTake a deep breath and remember your roots.\r\n\r\nThe Bush administration is not fundamentally opposed to civil rights or civil liberties. There\'s no money in it either way.\r\n\r\nThe feds (institutions, bureacracies, \"black world\", spooks and pointy-heads) are the same as always. _THEY_ want unaccountable power and always have. And they are quite non-partisan in getting it.\r\n\r\nI.e., the only relationship between the Bush administration and current threats to our rights and liberties is that the Bush administration is in power at the moment, and so is being used by the feds the same as they use every administration, and did including Carter\'s. Ashcroft is a threat only because he is innocent, gullible and tends to believe whoever talked to him last. Given his position as AG, the feds are usually the last.\r\n\r\nIf you really want to motivate the Bush administration to protect our rights and liberties from the feds, figure out a way for their big contributors to make money doing it.\r\n\r\nI used to be a Democrat, and still know how to think that way.','2003-07-22 21:54:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4744,1,3805,'216.68.253.1','Robert Crawford','crawford@kloognome.com','http://www.kloognome.com/','And Dave wins the Sour Grapes Award!\r\n\r\nWhat we did: We freed a nation from a fascist dictatorship that killed hundreds of thousands of its own people, and hundreds of thousands of its neighbors.\r\n\r\nHow we chose to do it: Open debate that lasted for more than a year. Hell, it lasted over a decade. I know you\'re complaining about sixteen words, but since we\'re all grown ups here, we\'ll admit that gripe\'s just a bit of political log-rolling, OK?\r\n\r\nTwo (maybe three!) of the monstrous heirs of a monster have been killed. Try not to act like it\'s a bad thing, OK?\r\n','2003-07-22 22:39:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4745,1,3806,'128.183.82.153','Fredrik Nyman','fredriknyman@adelphia.net','','AL --\r\n\r\nFirst of all, the endless carping about Bush and Ashcroft being \"threats to civil liberties\" is more leftist mythmaking. In the blogosphere, Eugene Volokh and his follow co-conspirators have also written quite a bit on the subject.\r\n\r\nFor the rest, I think you need to rebalance your priorities a bit.\r\n\r\nNational security should be the overriding question in the presidential election 2004: \"Which candidate do you trust the most to prosecute the war and to prevent the loss of a US city?\"\r\n\r\nEverything else isn\'t terribly important in comparison. If we were to lose a city (or otherwise suffer a major terrorist attack), the impact on the economy would dwarf the impact of 9/11. It would prevent your pet policies from being implemented for decades; the money just wouldn\'t be there.\r\n\r\nNational security must come first; it\'s a prerequisite for any and all domestic policies. \r\n','2003-07-22 22:47:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4746,1,3806,'198.26.123.36','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Fredrik,\r\n\r\n For many Democrats war is not real.\r\n\r\n So they cannot in any way interact with the concept on any level. It is impossible to hold a civil conversation with them on it because they lack the intellectual basis to have one.\r\n\r\n It is like talking to a man from the 1860\'s about the strong and weak points of the Microsoft Windows NT operating systems and how it will effect your business\'s I.T. budget and hiring for the next fiscal year.','2003-07-22 22:56:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4747,1,3806,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Frederik:\r\n\r\nUltimately, I think the Administration is doing an excellent job tactically, I am not yet comfrotable with what they\'re doing on a strategic level.\r\n\r\nThat\'s a gloss for a longer thought that deserves a post or longer comment; give me a few hours and I\'ll get to it.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-22 23:13:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4748,1,3805,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','Oh happy day. Now if they can just kill Saddam all hope of a restoration of the bastards will come to an end.\r\n','2003-07-22 23:16:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4756,1,3806,'63.88.212.164','Michael J. Totten','michaeltotten001@yahoo.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','Sage: The Comments section in CalPundit\'s post on Uday and Qusay includes the sweeping view of left-wing opinion. It ranges from \"Woo Hoo!\" to \"Who Cares?\" to \"It Was a War Crime.\"\r\n\r\nClick here to read it.\r\n','2003-07-23 00:03:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4757,1,3806,'198.26.123.36','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','A.L.\r\n\r\n The next volley in the \"Will the Democratic Party survive 2004\" debate is served.\r\n\r\n See my new post.','2003-07-23 00:12:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4758,1,3806,'128.183.82.153','Fredrik Nyman','fredriknyman@adelphia.net','','Porphyrogenitus --\r\n\r\nDean has been very effective in framing the nomination as a fight between the \"Democratic wing\" and the \"Republican lite wing\". \r\n\r\nThis fight will mostly be decided by the various interest groups that make up the party base. These interest groups will choose the party\'s nominee based on hatred of Bush, and the candidates\' pandering to their pet issues; gay rights, abortion rights, affirmative action, gun control, opposition to the Iraq war, Hillarycare and what have you. To the extent national security is a factor here, it will be an afterthought.\r\n\r\nGiven this, wouldn\'t it hurt a democratic candidate to now change tack? The base wants pandering, not unpleasant talk about war. Especially not if such talk suggests that Bush might be doing something right.\r\n\r\nOr am I misreading the political dynamics of the party here? I hope so!','2003-07-23 00:16:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4750,1,3806,'68.22.243.62','Sage','baconfortress@ameritech.net','','I\'ll just say this: the real test will be to what extent the Democratic left is relieved and gladdened by the news of the Hussein brothers\' demise. My guess is, the most vocal among them will recoil in horror at the very thought of rooting for victory--in any emotionally engaged way, at least. But real, actual joy over such a big score for the coalition--don\'t count on it. \r\n\r\nFor that reason, the various Presidential cadidates will be unable to express any but the most reserved and mitigated sentiment of vindication at the news. Average people will witness this, along with a thousand other instances of the same, and wonder how these folks can be trusted with our security, when they and their constituents can\'t even get a little bit excited about winning.','2003-07-22 23:19:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4751,1,3805,'172.202.230.27','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','On the phone with my mother she yelled out, \"Woohoo! The Hussein Boys are dead!\" hehe Hussein Boys. It\'s like the Hardy Boys, only psychotic.','2003-07-22 23:30:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4752,1,3806,'67.225.186.7','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Setting aside quibbling over this or that which, as I\'ve written about, I think can be done in ways that are much more on-point and show that they share the same concerns as the rest of us but would go about it a different way (in the manner A.L. wants, for example) than the Ds are doing - they\'re going at it sas akwards, and it does mean something. There\'s no reason they have to wait for the primary, or the general election, to do it the right way.\r\n\r\nThough it\'s hard to feel that way right now, having heard that Uday & Qusay are deaders, I\'ve felt blue, too. I think the reason that you folks, Democrats and Liberals yourselves are, is that you have a sense of the distinction between what is the right sort of critique, that shows they are \"with us\", and what doesn\'t fit.\r\n\r\nLet me put it the way I did when I wrote a response to a letter sent to me by Richard Meixner today (and which exposes my inner Jacksonian): family may bicker among themselves and some of the fiercest grudges can be among family members. But when someone attacks your family, you stand shoulder to shoulder, back to back, against them.\r\n\r\nTony Blair and George Bush, the British and Americans, have a lot of policy differences. But Blair has shown that he understands when those differences take a back seat which doesn\'t mean they\'re forgotten, nor even that they aren\'t raised and dealt with; even in how to proceed in the war. But when Blair says he\'s got our back, we believe him. He\'s family, whatever differences there might be. Chretien and Chirac and their like have not behaved like family. They\'re outside the circle.\r\n\r\nWhen the Democratic candidates say they\'ve got our back, a lot of us are starting to look for dagger wounds because their attitude and critiques have been antagonistic rather than supportive.\r\n\r\nThey *could* be speaking in ways that demonstrate that not only do they have our back as Blair does, but they\'ll be more vigilant and insightfully articulate about it - as Blair can be and as A.L. & I agree that we need to be, since one of the fronts is intellectual, rhetorical persuasion - than the current head of the family. I articulate what I mean about this in several posts up over on my blog.\r\n\r\nThey\'re taking a different path. One that shows that they don\'t see the problem, understand our situation.\r\n\r\nCan they change tack by the primaries and beyond? Well, Michael, the way to do that is to be pro-active, and I\'d recommend raising hell the way A.L. is planning on doing.','2003-07-22 23:40:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4753,1,3806,'67.225.186.7','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','I mean, IMO there\'s no reason that a Democratic candidate can\'t sound the same notes that Blair has and they should be pressured to. The fact that none of them are and few national Democratic politicians are (I can\'t think of any) says a lot about their attitude, and what they really feel.\r\n\r\nI mean, lots of people are pointing to possible alternative questions that the Democratic candidates *could* be raising other than the ones they are (some examples, again, in posts over on my blog), but the attitude towards those, by and large, seems to be that those reflect \"right wing\" concerns.\r\n\r\nBloody why? To me, they are questions that reflect a concern with our success, and I don\'t see why that should be \"right wing\". I think that you folks have that same sense and that\'s why you\'re blue about the way the Democrats are behaving now.\r\n\r\nThey\'re missing real, serious concerns because they are going at discrediting not just Bush, but policies we think are needed to win the war, in ways that show they don\'t have the same understanding of the scope of the war that we do (see \"Dividing Lines\", where I express this a bit more eloquently).\r\n\r\nRichard \"Dick\" Gephardt made a speech today that was a major example on this score. I\'ll try to find a link to the text.','2003-07-22 23:52:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4754,1,3802,'68.5.110.43','Kevin Drum','calpundit@cox.net','http://www.calpundit.com','Come on, Joe, I wasn\'t trying to do a Den Bestian analysis of military needs. I was just posing a question: is a large conventional military the best way to fight terrorism?\r\n\r\nI don\'t think it is. If you disagree, you need to tell me why instead of just calling it shallow pap. You\'ll excuse me, I hope, if I don\'t find that very convincing.\r\n\r\n(And please: you know perfectly well I was talking about military expenditures, not troops under arms. Deliberately misunderstanding my point really doesn\'t help your argument much.)','2003-07-22 23:59:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4755,1,3806,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','Here is another Democrat, of my vintage, who thinks the Party\'s continued existence is at risk on this:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.insightmag.com/news/447801.html\r\n\r\n\"Although I am a Democrat, I don\'t think that my party deserves to win the presidency next year. One reason is because most of our candidates have become demagogues. ...\r\n\r\nWith Democratic propaganda spreading widely, at least one prominent conservative, Paul Weyrich, chairman of the Free Congress Foundation, now is advising the White House to be prepared for the introduction of impeachment resolutions. Based on my own experience with impeachment politics, I agree with his advice. \r\n\r\nIn my case, I believe that political parties that thrive on demagoguery destroy themselves. These days I fear that the Democratic Party that I have known for 60 years now may be close to extinction. \r\n\r\nJerome Zeifman (jzeifman@yahoo.com) was the Democratic chief counsel of the House Judiciary Committee during the Nixon impeachment proceedings.\"','2003-07-23 00:00:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4759,1,3806,'198.26.123.36','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Fredrik,\r\n\r\n The problem for Pro-War Democrats like A.L. is that your analysis of Democratic Party internal politics is spot on. ','2003-07-23 00:20:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4760,1,3806,'64.105.215.58','Hottentot Totten Taught','noway@scn.org','http://www.patpack.org','Ahem. \r\n\r\n\"I think that the GOP fiscal and tax policies are outrageous. I don\'t think they have a clue as to what to do to try and offer Americans who are middle-class and below a tighter grip on the ladder.\"\r\n\r\nOutrageous?\r\n\r\nPlease offer us a clue. Give me some small hint as to what we MIGHT do to offer less well-off Americans a tighter grip on the ladder. \r\n\r\nFoster business growth (employment) through capital release? Done. \r\n\r\n\r\nEarning potential is a variable thing. The state does not and should not control the means of production. \r\n\r\nIt\'s good to look at suffering in the world and take action, but it\'s always a mistake to assume that everything is reparable. Sometimes you have to let things develop naturally. Like the business cycle. \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-07-23 00:22:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4761,1,3806,'172.166.104.214','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','Fredrik, this article from the NYTimes commented on the [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/18/politics/18MEMO.html]massive, pathetic pandering to the special interest groups.[/url] I couldn\'t help but read the article as a warning. I must say the head of the NAACP came off as a major asshole and the rest of them like tardy school boys. \r\n\r\nI seem to remember public opinion polls that indicated the Democrats were split down the middle on the issue of Iraq. I wish I could find them. I\'m sure there are a lot more alienated Dems. ','2003-07-23 00:44:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4762,1,3806,'172.166.104.214','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','Shite.','2003-07-23 00:45:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4763,1,3808,'80.13.121.65','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Sadly - very sadly - Trent is right on the money. Bush is vulnerable on management of the economy (stupid!) and social justice. It would be nice if those were the central issues in the election. However, when the only relevant question will boil down to (and be perceived as) Health Care, Economic Fairness and Exaggerations about WMD versus, say, Elementary Survival for you and your kids, the choice will not be that tough for most people. There is a growing middle range of swing voters - probably at least 10-20% - which will fall big time for Bush. The kind of people who begin their posts \"Well, I used to be a Democrat, but...\"\r\n\r\nBut do I really have to vote for Darth Vader?','2003-07-23 00:53:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4764,1,3806,'12.236.106.110','roublen vesseau','roublen@yahoo.com','http://hardheads.blogspot.com/','So I take it Dean is the Anti-Christ around here. But he\'s not the only candidate generating excitement. What do you all think of Gen. Wesley Clark? And lest you say \"I don\'t know enough about him\", here is a good place to start. Also, here is an hour-long audio interview of Clark on \"Sound off with Sasha\"\r\n\r\n','2003-07-23 01:24:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4765,1,3806,'67.225.186.7','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Fredrik:\r\n\r\nTo the extent to which that\'s true, it says nothing good about the overall situation and supports my point.\r\n\r\nTheir reaction to that has been \"no I\'m not, see, I\'m like you\" rather than confronting it. If I were still a Democrat and if I were a candidate I would be able to shread that tactic with little effort, confronting it and out arguing it. I wouldn\'t resort to a meek retort \"I represent the *electable* wing of the Democratic Party\" (yay. Whatever) as one did. I\'d go after it. This is precisely the sort of attitude I that shows up in the \"oh, those are right-wing concerns\" attitudes to certain pointed questions. Like hell, Truman might retort; why is such a position \"Republican\", lite or not?\r\n\r\nDean hasn\'t ever been confronted like that and I think that under incisive rebuttal, he\'d collapse; he\'s already demonstrated he\'s not all that quick on his feet when he is questioned in ways he\'s not prepared for.\r\n\r\nPerhaps doing that would mean I would sink to oblivion with zero support because there aren\'t enough Dems out there looking for a candidate like that. Perhaps there aren\'t enough Democrats out there who want the American version of Tony Blair, and a campaign waged the way I outline would starve and die.\r\n\r\nIt would be very sad if that\'s true, but I\'d love to see someone *TRY*. He could talk as Blair does on the war *AND* raise the sorts of questions that would really be on point - does the Administration seriously think that sending a guy to go ask around while drinking mint tea is an effective way of verifying intelligence? I mean, if we have intelligence failures then perhaps this sort of method of verification helps explain why.\r\n\r\nWe don\'t have enough troops to go around, so why isn\'t the Administration focusing on creating the military we need for a war we didn\'t expect - why have they been acting like off-the-shelf will suit a very different sort of conflict situation than we built our military to handle? Gephardt talked in his speech today about how good the military is (which is fine) but how if \"Bush listened\" he\'d put more troops here or there - with an obvious disconnect, lack of understanding, that the forces are stretched and our Clinton-era military is too small. He should say clearly that he understands this and propose an expansion with new units formed on a TO&E designed to the missions we face; JFK would. JFK did. Current Democrats have blind spots here and have little or no understanding of military and defense matters.\r\n\r\nThe \"model candidate\" I\'m talking about could still be a Democrat: they could still run on a platform of solving the fiscal wreckage by saying that the problem is that Bush isn\'t spending enough, that the reason for huge deficits is that 5-6% per annum increases in the non-defense, non-homeland security line items is not enough and has created fiscal wreckage and the solution to the deficit is to vastly increase spending vastly beyond what Bush has. They don\'t have to be \"Republican lite\" and can strongly articulate Liberal domestic policy differences with Bush (ones I\'ll disagree with, but it would be \"in the family\" - that is, IMO differences like this are perfectly expected, where the current tack the Dems have taken on F.P. critiques is - disapointing, dispiriting, gives one the blues, for all the reasons already discussed).\r\n\r\nThey could go after the Saudis and instead of harping on yellowcake make a fuss over the administration\'s minimization of intel on Saudi involvement in Sept. 11th (but, then, the Sauds have tenticles in both parties. Still, someone can confront that). On this question and a number of others that A.L. raise I think it\'s *possible* that the Administration has and is doing those things, behind the scenes.\r\n\r\nBut on many of these things, the problem is they\'re running the precise opposite of such a campaign - narrower, rather than larger, vision of the war. Running on \"not upsetting our allies\" and \"turning the world against us\" - people campaigning like that don\'t sound like they\'re going to have a sit down with the Saudis or anyone else. Likewise, Democrats really have a mmisunderstanding of civil rights themselves and aren\'t very good on that score.\r\n\r\nBtw, thinking on it, you need a more positive label for your group than \"Disaffected Democrats\"; Liberty Democrats, Victory Democrats, (*not* \"Security Democrats\", IMO; but what\'s a turn off to me might sound good to you). None of those are perfect suggestions, but something along those lines.\r\n\r\nThe fact that our Democrat \"Dream Candidate\" would be pegged as \"Republican lite\" - I mean, someone like Arlen Spector or Olympia Snow or Lincolin Chafee might run a campaign like I outlined, but no true Democrat could! - is sad and depressing. Someone\'s gotta change the Democratic paradigm so that no longer holds.','2003-07-23 01:24:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4766,1,3806,'67.225.186.7','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','roublen:\r\n\r\nDean isn\'t the Anti-Christ. He\'s just the Anti-Blair.\r\n\r\nAs for Clark, his sole purpose for existing is to serve as a V.P. candidate to camoflage and mask their deficiencies on the things we\'re talking about; \"look, see, I\'ve got a General\".\r\n\r\nBut the fact that he\'s a General doesn\'t mean he\'s saying anything all that different; his critiques show the same flaws. It\'s a matter of policies and positions, not personalities that makes the Democratic field disapointing. I mean, sure, you find Clark attractive - but you find him attractive for the same reason you find the other anti-war D\'s attractive - policy. The fact that he had stars on his shoulders once is seen as a plus simply for the political effect you think it will have, but his positions and statements are to your liking for the same reasons they aren\'t to mine.\r\n\r\nHe\'ll be the V.P. selection for a Dean, Kerry or Graham (fat chance) ticket because his positions and views mirror theirs but they (and you) think his General status will deflect criticism of those stances.','2003-07-23 01:32:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4767,1,3808,'208.186.193.209','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','>But do I really have to vote for Darth Vader?\r\n\r\nYou just don\'t know how much *fun* I had writing those last two sentances.\r\n\r\nBesides, one man\'s Darth Vader is another man\'s Anakin Skywalker. And remember, it took Darth Vader remembering his life as Anakin to kill the Emperor.','2003-07-23 01:37:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4768,1,3808,'209.151.229.111','John Callender','jbc@west.net','http://www.lies.com/','Well, wars are divisive things. People like me who think the invasion of Iraq was a bad idea (at least as carried out by Bush) feel that way really strongly. If the Democrats aren\'t going to give me a candidate who articulates that position, I\'ll vote for some fringe nutjob who does.\r\n\r\nBut they are giving me a candidate who articulates that position. And I\'m damn well going to vote for him. You\'re welcome to vote for one of the Dems who supported the war. More power to you.\r\n\r\nI don\'t see a problem here. ','2003-07-23 01:39:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4769,1,3806,'68.85.101.77','Alene Berk','usberks@comcast.net','','A. L., Michael, et al.--\r\n\r\nThere is one Dem out there who\'s better on the WoT. He\'s too multi-lateral for my taste, which is probably a plus for the party. He\'s knowledgable, experienced, and like most long-time pols, occasionally a whore (my biggest gripes, which I\'ve made known to him, are the Bankruptcy Bill, and RAVE).\r\n\r\nYes, *that* Joe Biden. I haven\'t heard him join the feeding frenzy. Back last year, I watched him, with Lugar, run the Foreign Relations Committee hearings. I also listened carefully to his speech in voting for Lieberman-Warner, which was (gasp) non-partisan. I haven\'t found a way to access the debate in the Congressional Record; if you can, it\'s 10/10/02 beginning on page S10290, and runs six close-packed pages.\r\n\r\nWhat he was arguing then, and I wholeheartedly agree(d), was that the we, the people, needed to be told the price up front. My take was that I didn\'t want us to go in and not stay the course; I saw that as the worst possible outcome and still do; I know the Brits had neither the manpower nor the money to pacify a recalcitrant Iraq after WWI. I (naively?) thought there\'d be a better chance of full commitment if we knew we might have to pay both lives and butter, for an unknown but significant period, unless we got unbelievably lucky. \r\n\r\nAnd here we are. \r\n\r\nBTW, a close reading of this speech negates almost every brick on the Yellowcake Road. I have a copy; if it isn\'t soon accessible on Senator Biden\'s website (I\'m asking that he make it accessible), I\'ll make copies and snailmail \'em to interested parties. Use viberk at comcast dot net to request. Two short quotes:\r\n\r\n\"...while Iraq\'s illegal weapons of mass destruction programs do not-do not-pose an imminent threat to our national security, in my view,they will, if left unfettered.\"\r\n\r\nOr try \"...just as Mark Twain said \"The reports of my death are much exaggerated,\' the reports of al-Qaida in Iraq are much exaggerated.\"\r\n\r\nBut he voted to authorize, insisted on the U.N. route, wanted the full case and costs to be made clearly (though his \'failure reference\' was to Vietnam), and recognized the need to act--\r\n\"The United States has a singular capacity to act alone, if necessary. We must-and this resolution does-preserve our right to do so...Acting alone must be a last resort, not a defiant retort to those not yet convinced of our policy.\"\r\n\r\nBiden for President?\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-07-23 01:59:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4770,1,3808,'63.88.212.164','Michael J. Totten','michaeltotten001@yahoo.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','Even if you\'re 100 percent right about the future of the Democratic Party, US politics is not binary. There is a third option:\r\n\r\nIndependent.\r\n\r\nIf I end up leaving the Democrats, I\'ll be an Independent. I am not going to trade one truckload of baggage for another.','2003-07-23 02:15:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4771,1,3808,'208.186.193.209','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Michael,\r\n\r\n What makes you think the Republican Coalition as it is now will survive the death of the Democratic Party and victory in the War on Terrorism?\r\n\r\n In the aftermath of the end of the Cold War the Republicans drove out arch cold warrior Pat Buchanon over immigration. That was only over a minor issue.\r\n\r\n Politics like nature abhores a vacuum. The current Republican coalition of amoral big business Fat Cats, small \'l\' Libertarians, Small Businessmen and the Religious Right will not willingly cooperate or cohabitate without the threat of Democrats in power to hold them together.\r\n\r\n One or more of these groups will split off and form a new national party with the exiled centrist Democrats to replace the over run by leftie nut rump-Democrats.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-23 02:35:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4772,1,3808,'67.225.186.7','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Well, as Kang (or was it Kodos?) said, \"its a two party system\".\r\n\r\nindependent really shouldn\'t be capitalized, since it\'s not a party, it\'s a grab-bag; I\'m not saying that there is anything wrong with being an independent - there isn\'t; there are a number of advantages, but also some drawbacks.\r\n\r\nThat\'s why I\'m really not emphasizing the option of Disafected Democrats leaving the Democratic party as much as I\'m urging them to work to remake it. Having people like yourself defect from the Democratic Party may actually, arguably, be more in the narrow, partisan interest of guys like me; but I\'d actually rather see a Democratic party that is healthier in its politics (at least as I define healthier; folks like John Callender will disagree).\r\n\r\nJohn: there\'s \"no problem\" for you because you see Democratic candidates that you can stomach. But A.L., Michael, and others *don\'t*, so there\'s a problem for them. They\'re turned off by the current field for reasons articulated in numerous posts and comments. As you say of yourself, if there wasn\'t a Democratic candidate who reflected your views you\'d go elsewhere and vote for \"some fringe nutjob\". They\'re considering going elsewhere to a greater or lesser degree; positions vary.\r\n\r\n*I* think they should do exactly what you folks are doing: fight, actively, to get their views represented by the Democratic Party. Organize and mobilize and become activists to win. The same methods your wing of the Party has done to get their way - and threatening to defect and cost the party victory if you don\'t get your way, either by not voting (costing a vote) or voting for someone else (again, costing them a vote) certainly is one of those tools, and the shots across the bow steming from the Green vote is one of the things that have the current Democrats running as they are. Might be only a couple of percent of you in the electorate but you can cost them the election. That\'s one of the whips you hold over their head.\r\n\r\nI\'m thinking that these guys can play the same game, and Truman showed that a Democratic party that stands for Democrat-party values but is strong on foreign policy but loses its Leftist fringe to \"some fringe nutjob\" (while simoultaniously losing a Right-fringe to a different \"fringe nutjob\") can attract more votes than they lose and win anyhow. Democrats need to be reminded of that.','2003-07-23 02:35:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4773,1,3808,'67.225.186.7','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','(In other words, what Trent said. He posted while I was writing mine {*_+} .)','2003-07-23 02:38:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4774,1,3795,'218.104.145.2','JFarr','jfarreast@hotmail.com','','AMac,\r\nHere is a post that pretty-well describes what went wrong. One thing we should have done was stop Taylor in 1989. \r\n\r\nhttp://www.vesselofhonour.com/archives/000148.php\r\n\r\nI don\'t claim to have all the answers - we (the US) have been pumping millions of $\'s into Liberia forever - with not accountability of how the money was spent. Therefore it went into the pockets of the leaders.\r\n\r\nIn my first post I set out what I think should be done NOW. Infrastructure, self-reliance, education, education, education. And forget soverign nation talk - the education has to come first. \r\n\r\nOne advantage in going into Liberia is that the Liberians don\'t hate \"us\". They call themselves \"Uncle Sam\'s step-children\". They, dare I say it, love Americans. The masses really are helpless and child-like.\r\n\r\nA story - during the fighting that started April 6, 1996 - after the first night of shelling, several friends had taken refuge with me in my home while most of the neighbors had fled. In came the looters and a van-load of about a dozen drunken children with AK47\'s started beating on the door to let them in or they would shoot it down. I opened the door and they entered - the leader, about 17 years old, saw me and was surprised and asked where I am from. When I told him I am an American he called his boys off saing \"she is our friend\" and chatted for a while and left giving bath soap and stuffed toys to a child in the house.\r\n\r\nAnother group came to loot my car - we talked - I told them they couldn\'t have it and that they should stop this and go back where they came from - we stared each other down and they went away and did not come back. In their own way they were respectful - only because I am an American.','2003-07-23 02:51:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4775,1,3788,'65.170.212.42','cliff','cgstyles@hotmail.com','','The North Koreans are going to develop nuclear weapons regardless of how many agreements they sign, or what they publicly say, or how devastated their economy is. Everything they know of Korean history demands it.\r\n\r\nIn the end, it is a South Korean problem. They will be the only profitable target for NK wmds. They use them against anyone else, and they will be destroyed. They do know this.\r\n\r\nNK is a sideshow in the war on islamism. \r\n\r\nAmerican policy ought to be: let them drown in their bullshit. Produce a convincing warning that they will be annihilated if they sell their wmds to any islamists (constant diplomacy and subsidy sends the opposite message). Tell the South Koreans to deal with the problem if they expect to keep trading with us. Don\'t count on China for a goddamned thing except the most ruthless pursuit of real or imaginary Chinese interests. Encourage Japanese rearmament and missile defense. Stay focused, in the immediate future, on controlling Iranian and Pakistani nukes. In the long term, on pursuing a revolution in Islam against islamism. \r\n\r\nRepeat..NK is a sideshow...we\'re barely started on the war on islamism.','2003-07-23 02:56:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4776,1,3795,'172.138.208.158','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','One thing we should have done was stop Taylor in 1989. \r\n\r\nIt is interesting. How W. is basically going around cleaning up his father\'s mistakes.','2003-07-23 03:02:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4777,1,3808,'208.186.193.209','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Porphyrogenitus,\r\n\r\n You\'re neglecting the effect of the \"Money Primary.\"\r\n\r\n In Truman\'s time it was possible for a party faction to stay independently funded and fight all the way to the convention floor and beyond. That is what Strom Thurmond did with his Dixiecrat revolt.\r\n\r\n Today\'s Democratic campaign system is specifically intended to prevent that.\r\n\r\n Go google the USA Today on Democratic camapign contributions and read their editorial on the zip codes from which Democratic candidates are getting their campaign funds. They are all vying for buck from the same guilty over Vietnam leftists who reliving their salad days every election, trying to bury their guilt by reaffirming their political choices (mistakes) from then.\r\n\r\n Democratic candidates that buck the money men\'s ideology won\'t make it to Iowa and New Hampshire, let alone the Boston convention floor.\r\n\r\n That is why fighting inside the Democratic party is pointless.','2003-07-23 03:05:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4778,1,3796,'24.193.224.92','ForNow','twexclor@yahoo.com','http://4now.blogspot.com','There’s a variant of this letter at Free Republic. The opening is a bit garbled (Point 1 is missing & part of its content is incorporated into the immediately preceding paragraph.) There is different editing of curses. But especially toward the end there are differences. For instance, the Winds of Change version has the comments about Hillary, the Free Republic one doesn’t. (Or didn’t, when I looked at what was posted there this afternoon).','2003-07-23 03:14:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4779,1,3806,'24.51.148.213','Fredrik Nyman','fredriknyman@adelphia.net','','About Wesley Clark, I can\'t say I\'m impressed. He comes across as a generic D politician, not a general.\r\n\r\nDuring the war, when he was doing the \"military expert\" thing for CNN, he was part of the quagmire chorus. Not good.\r\n\r\nI happened to catch him on Hannity&Colmes last week (the 17th), and again, he sounded like a generic D, complete with the usual carping we\'ve heard on endless repeat the past year; \"rush to war\", \"unilateral\", yada yada. \r\n\r\nSo sorry, no, I don\'t think that Wesley Clark would help the D\'s win many votes. \r\n\r\nAs for Howard Dean, I don\'t think anyone here considers him the anti-christ. Personally, I consider him naive, arrogant, and unqualified for the position he seeks.\r\n\r\nBut my real issue with Dean isn\'t the man himself, but the effect he is having on the political climate. By running as an anti-Bush, anti-War, anti-Establishment candidate, he is legitimizing the lunatic fringe -- the ANSWER, WPP, Noam Chomsky, and Ramsey Clark crowd -- by using the same arguments that they do. \r\n\r\nWith the political dynamics being what they are (see my post above for thoughts about that), he is forcing the rest of the candidates to do the same.\r\n\r\nBottom line: the Democrats, as a party, end up sounding like ANSWER, WPP, Noam Chomsky and Ramsey Clark, and the rest of the blame-America-first crowd. \r\n\r\nDemocrats would be wise to mind the old agage Lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas.\r\n','2003-07-23 03:15:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4780,1,3806,'68.63.70.99','cbk','cbk@comcast.net','','I\'ve been chastised for this many times, but I\'ll take the chance again.\r\n\r\nWhile you guys put forth extensive analysis of the dem party, I\'m wondering why you care so much?\r\n\r\nIf nobody in that party comes forth that represents your views, don\'t vote democratic.\r\n\r\nTotten declares he\'ll be independent before he\'ll be republican. Well, that\'s better than voting for a party that doesn\'t reflect your views.\r\n\r\nBut it\'s still idiotic to me...this whole yellow doggism.\r\n\r\nI mean, sheesh, these parties have changed so much in their history of existance. What is the benefit of calling yourself a democrat if the democrats are unhinged from reality. AL wants his party back. Well, AL, you seem to be a minority. Would you want it back if it has changed forever? If the moderate democrats moved so far to the right that they became republicans, would you still want to call yourself a democrat.\r\n\r\nAnd just what is it about the republican party that is so offensive? They were began as a party against increased slavery. Now they have been slandered into the epitome of bigotry, despite the fact that it was the dems not the reps who failingly tried to filibuster the voting rights act. Even Strom didn\'t join the republicans until that filibuster failed. All those other dixiecrats (with the exception of 4) remained democrats (Byrd for instance).\r\n\r\nIt\'s just silly, particularly in this blog (at least to me). Generally, there is a tone of individualism here in the blog. All voices are accepted. There is no collective group think here. And yet AL wants to belong to the fold again. But not just any fold, his special demo fold.\r\n\r\nAnd what is so special about that fold?\r\n\r\nBill?\r\n\r\nHillary?\r\n\r\nDaschle?\r\n\r\nCarter?\r\n\r\nByrd?\r\n\r\nMcKinney?\r\n\r\n...\r\n\r\n','2003-07-23 03:18:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4781,1,3795,'218.104.145.2','JFarr','jfarreast@hotmail.com','','Just noticed this article that mentions Liberians attitudes toward Americans:\r\n\r\n\"Liberians feel anything that\'s American is perfect,\" Bility said.\r\nhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25408-2003Jul21.html\r\n\r\n','2003-07-23 03:20:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4782,1,3808,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','\"But do I really have to vote for Darth Vader?\"\r\n\r\nThe perfect remedy when you\'re tired of always having to choose the lesser evil... >;->','2003-07-23 03:33:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4783,1,3796,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','I have worked to confirm this letter. I can\'t come forward with sources, but based on my investigations I am confident that a Special Forces soldier did indeed write this letter.\r\n\r\nWhat I cannot yet confirm... that every part of the letter is genuine and that it hasn\'t been altered aqt any point. The Hilary bit, can\'t say. You\'d think that would be left in the Freep version for sure. I\'ve removed it for now as being of dubious authenticity.\r\n\r\nTrent?','2003-07-23 03:37:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4784,1,3806,'68.63.70.99','cbk','cbk@comcast.net','','I would be more sympathetic except that I agree completely with Fredrik.\r\n\r\nI\'ve almost always voted democratic but I never belonged to the party. So I have no desire to belong to the fold. I want a fold that belongs to me. Without benefit of that, I vote for the man that best represents my views and desires, regardless of party.\r\n\r\nMost of my friends are democrats and they too are beginning to sound like idjits (like ANSWER, WPP, Noam Chomsky and Ramsey Clark, and the rest of the blame-America-first crowd).\r\n\r\nThe hate-Bush-more-than-they-love-their-country-brigade.\r\n\r\nThey are worse than the yellow dogs. They actually relish our injuries in Iraq. They can\'t wait for the US to look stupid to the world through the words of Bush. They can\'t stand it that Blair stands beside Bush on this because they are just waiting for any opportunity to sink their teeth in and shake him. Even if it means disaster for the US. Worse than dogs. A pack of mongrels.\r\n\r\nAnd poor AL reminds me of those old Lucky Strikes commercials, \"I\'d rather fight than switch.\"\r\n\r\nTruly, I\'d like to see fine folks reclaim the dem party. But hey, if it goes down in a stinky pile, it shouldn\'t shame you any. Some other group will take it\'s place. Parties come. Parties go. They change for good and bad. Isn\'t that the nature of our dynamic culture? Why grapple to \'conserve\' this group?\r\n\r\nGephart?\r\n\r\nKerry?\r\n\r\nDean?\r\n\r\nPelosi?\r\n\r\nKuchinik?\r\n\r\nSharpton?\r\n\r\nBIDEN?\r\n\r\nSheesh...Alene says she disagrees with Biden on two very important bills, but as long as he\'s got a donkey on his lapel he\'s better than Bush.\r\n\r\nGimmeabreak.\r\n\r\nThe dems, like all good politicians, are going to pander the loudest voices. And with our media as it is, those voices are the moonbats. So, yeah, without better leadership, the party as you fondly remember it, AL, is on it\'s way out.\r\n\r\nCBK','2003-07-23 03:43:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4785,1,3796,'66.57.142.186','Jennifer Martinez','yotanka@jenmartinez.com','http://www.jenmartinez.com/mt/','I would have to say that it\'s legit. I received it from the unofficial SOA Net directly. Next I emailed the retired operator (CrocSix) who sent it in to the unofficial SOA Net. The version I have on my blog includes the write-ups from the men who sent it in.\r\n\r\nDe Oppresso Liber,\r\nJennifer Martinez sends','2003-07-23 03:57:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4786,1,3808,'63.206.171.96','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','I vote for A.L., Totten and Katzman to form a new party with the religious right after it splits from the GOP over gay marriage.','2003-07-23 04:10:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4787,1,3800,'142.30.245.125','CJ','cjoyce@intouch.bc.ca','','Send them to Gitmo. Please. Let them look out from the cages onto the Castroite paradise that surrounds.','2003-07-23 04:20:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4788,1,3807,'67.225.186.153','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','His dad\'s been making noises like that since Sept. 11th, too. I don\'t know if it\'s backed by action - ceasing support for terrorism - or not. But at least there\'s one person in the entire world who\'s reciprocated Bush\'s \"new tone\".','2003-07-23 04:52:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4789,1,3808,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','I never knew the religious right was _for_ gay marriage!! Although it makes sense...fidelity and commitment are good religious values, after all.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-23 05:05:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4790,1,3807,'128.253.136.23','John Thacker','thacker@math.cornell.edu','','Well, he\'s also been meddling heavily in Africa, where the US doesn\'t have a lot of influence and doesn\'t do a lot. Qadhafi figured out a while back that messing with the US was a bad idea, and has focused on Africa rather than the Middle East.','2003-07-23 05:15:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4791,1,3788,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','I fail to see how NK is a side show. If the North Koreans make a lot of nuclear weapons it is likely they will sell some of them to Muslim governments and private groups.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-23 05:15:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4792,1,3795,'207.19.142.74','AMac','ammackay@usa.net','','Thanks, JFarr.\r\n\r\nYour recollections of life in Liberia have a Conradian \"Heart of Darkness\" flavor. How easily things could have ended badly for you and your friends...\r\n\r\nSadly, your stories make it seem less rather than more likely that long-term good will come of stationing many Marines in that country.','2003-07-23 05:35:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4793,1,3802,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','A.L... good point. Kevin:\r\n\r\n\"...is a large conventional military the best way to fight terrorism\"\r\n\r\nYou might as well ask:\r\n\r\n\"...is an ace pitcher on the mound the best way to win baseball games\" \r\n\r\nThe question itself is a misunderstanding. Sure, that helps. If you haven\'t got it, you have a serious problem (esp. in baseball\'s playoffs, and on the world stage combatting a global terrorist movement with important state sponsors). Can it win without anything else? No, that isn\'t how things work. But if you don\'t have it, a lot of the other components stop working.\r\n\r\nA.L. and I will come back with more later. Valid point that if I\'m going to call the analysis shallow, I should explain why and where.','2003-07-23 06:18:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4794,1,3802,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','OK, we sometimes yank Den Beste\'s chain for the length of his posts, but sometimes that\'s necessary. I simply cannot top this as an answer, so I will just point to it.\r\n\r\nSteven deals in root causes of the problem, has a clear statement of what he believes to be (a) required to say we\'ve won and (b) practical, and steps people through an explanation of how events have unfolded with reference to how it supports (or doesn\'t) his views. \r\n\r\nA serious exploration of the issues is going to have to engage on similar grounds. It will also have to answer some questions. Questions like:\r\n\r\n* What are the goals of our war - how do we know if we are winning? \r\n* What do you see as the key \"axis of gravity\" for our opponents? What\'s the most important capability to destroy? What\'s the most important thing for Islamists and its other enemies to believe?\r\n* How can that best be accomplished, in broad terms?\r\n* What does historical experience suggest re: these goals and one\'s proposed approach?\r\n* How should other nations be involved in this effort?\r\n* For nations who refuse to cooperate or seek to hinder its efforts, how should the USA respond?\r\n* What is the role of state sponsorship for terrorism, and how can it be removed from the equation?\r\n* What are the key lessons derived from US foreign policy in the 1990s, nbow that North Korea and Iran are set to go nuclear and we look back in the aftermath of 9/11?\r\n* What historical evidence exists that conventional military forces are not useful in combatting terrorism? Cite cases and explain. \r\n* What are the major world threats right now to the USA, as you see them?\r\n* How many troops would be required to meet those needs, under current plans? Does the USA have enough to cover that? (This doesn\'t require great expertise, merely awareness)\r\n* If it doesn\'t, which commitments should it abandon? Or how many more troops would be required?\r\n* What about the threat of weapons of mass destruction? What should be done about this? What historical evidence and experience shows that one\'s approach is likely to be effective, or that current approaches will be ineffective?\r\n* If WMD are used in a terrorist attack, and no-one claims responsibility, what would we do? Given that finding WMD in Iraq has been a slower process than expected, why do we believe the USA could successfully trace a major attack back to its source?\r\n* If evidence must be \"court of law\" strong to justify any response, are you saying that if the USA loses a city in future to a nuclear terrorist attack, for instance, but isn\'t completely sure exactly who is responsible, that the response will be to do nothing?\r\n\r\nThese are the kinds of questions a serious conversartion about military policy or the War on Terrorism needs to address. I haven\'t seen serious engagement in very many of these areas from the Left, from Congressional leadership (Daschle lamenting the Democrats\' inability to focus the electorate on \"their issues\" instead of the war, after the 2002 election no less, remains for me the definitive statement of deep unseriousness) right on down to bloggers.\r\n\r\nKevin\'s posts didn\'t really engage these questions, and it isn\'t necessary to be a Bernard Lewis or a Wesley clark to do so. Instead, it seemed to me to be some casual and very questionable assertions with little to no back-up, and no serious addressing of the arguments his opponents have been making, consistently, for 18 months now.\r\n\r\nIt seemed, frankly, to be the sort of commentary one writes when the issue is just not of deep interest... we\'ll throw out a few thoughts and hope it goes away. That\'s probably not fair, but that was my impression. There are other leftists like Juan Cole and Abu Aardvark whom I may disagree with, but their posts are informed and their assertions debatable but backed by something real. We need more of that.','2003-07-23 07:18:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4795,1,3808,'63.93.80.41','FH','scbaird@ucdavis.edu','','Good point there AL. I have been trying to figure out what will happen with the political landscape soon, and the possibility of a religious right split doesn\'t make sense to me. Sure the religious right, which has both conservative and populists, can find some common issues with disaffected dems. Labor, for example, could work well to form a labor party. However, there is a strong connection to the GOP now for the religious right. Don\'t forget that W., while having strong business connections, does sort of fall into the religious right caetegory. More so than his father certainly. I think it more likely that the \"small l\" libertarians will split off, thanks to issues like gay marriage(or at least civil unions). However they too have problems with larger government, and something tells me a new Dem. party isn\'t going to downsize anytime soon. I think that nobody is going to split off at the moment, because there are too few people out there who agree with them now to form a new Dem party. ','2003-07-23 07:24:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4796,1,3797,'4.40.49.194','Randall Parker','parapundit@futurepundit.com','http://www.parapundit.com','Joe, You take all the fun out of sarcasm.\r\n\r\nHowever, since you mentioned it: If Al Qaeda is a grant-giving agency to terrorist organizations then Al Qaeda is best thought of as equivalent to the European Union.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-23 07:26:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4797,1,3808,'152.163.253.3','David Dwyer','DaveKDwyer@aol.com','','Well, if you\'re tired of the lesser evil...\r\n\r\nThere\'s always the Starry Wisdom Party.\r\n\"No More Years!\"','2003-07-23 08:03:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4798,1,3806,'203.5.41.210','Andrew','no@email.thanks','http://www.livejournal.com/users/anachronym','Biden? Mmm... no. In addition to the RAVE act, he\'s been one of the RIAA\'s hardest-working employees over the last couple of years. You know, the whole \"we\'re gonna make it illegal for you to modify your own computer without our permission\" crowd. Sadly, I\'ve noticed that the majority of politicians busy introducing DCMA-extension bills are Democrats, particularly the creators of the \'share a file, go to jail\' bill introduced last week. I\'d vote for Bush if the choice was between him and Biden. Or Berman, or Conyers... can we dump these guys, please?','2003-07-23 08:16:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4799,1,3808,'24.90.251.209','someone','no@one.no','','Buchanan was tossed for free trade, not (primarily) immigration. Same emotional nexus (on Buchanan\'s side), but lots more money involved.\r\n\r\nGood thing, too.','2003-07-23 08:34:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4800,1,3801,'216.99.194.193','jeanne a e devoto','bittersanity@jaedworks.com','http://bittersanity.blogspot.com','that\'s why I also think they need to suffer an ignominious defeat in the next cycle. I see too many people in denial who need a serious reality check.\r\n\r\nI just have one question about this scenario: if a possible 2004 loss - for the sake of argument, let\'s posit even a catastrophic loss - would serve as a reality check, then why didn\'t the 2002 election serve as one? That election was maybe not as painful as, say, a 49-1 loss in a presidential election, but still... loss of both houses, in an off-year election where the party not in the WH would normally expect to have gains, should have come as at least a bit of a shock.\r\n\r\nBut I saw precious little self-examination among Demo party stalwarts in its wake. Would such a loss next year trigger such self-examination, or would it just continue the process of withdrawal, denial, rage, and the casting out of heretics, already in progress?','2003-07-23 08:44:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4801,1,3803,'172.162.194.66','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','it took a little bit longer than expected, but the entry about iran and netblocking that leen was working on is up at:\r\n\r\nhttp://saoirse.oige.net','2003-07-23 08:49:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4802,1,3808,'67.160.156.25','Michael J. Totten','mike.totten@netiq.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','Tom Holsinger:\r\n\r\nI am a disaffected Dem. But under no circumstances will I have anything to do with the Religious Right. Nothing keeps me away from the Republican Party more than that faction.\r\n\r\nIf the RR would go away and form The Christian Party and a big enough heap of liberal hawks joined up and mellowed out the GOP, then I might go along for the ride. I have my differences with small-l libertarians, but they aren\'t huge.\r\n\r\nThat might be what Trent was talking about up above when he said (implied) that neither party will survive 9/11 in its current form.\r\n\r\nIt could happen. I\'m not going anywhere until I see where the dust settles. In the meantime, if I do leave the Dems, I\'m going to the Independent non-aligned center.','2003-07-23 09:21:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4803,1,3808,'80.13.121.65','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Ultimately, I don\'t think the voting machine tabulates differently the vote of the Republican who voted for Bush or the Independent or Disaffected Democrat who voted for Bush or voted for the losing fringe candidate (who throws the election to Bush à la Ralph Nader). Independents for Jaba the Hut unite!','2003-07-23 09:54:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4804,1,3807,'192.116.76.46','Barry Meislin','barrymeislin@hotmai.com','','So we\'re actually believing what Gadhafi says, are we?\r\n','2003-07-23 12:04:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4805,1,3808,'12.207.158.155','mike van winkle','editor@chicagoreport.net','http://www.chicagoreport.net','Edwards is a pro-war centrist.','2003-07-23 13:26:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4806,1,3805,'68.165.97.12','Ben','drakon2@worldnet.att.net','','It seems that the complaint is in process rather than results. But the whole purpose of a particular process IS the result you hope to get. You flip the light switch in order the lights on. You don\'t punch the toilet handle, because that does not work. That won\'t turn the lights on.\r\n\r\nI am still at a loss on how Bush lied. MI-6 is still saying their intel is accurate. Saddam and his boys were bad guys, as bad if not worse than Hitler. They needed to go. \r\n\r\nAnd now they are gone. How is a lot less important than the fact that they are gone. ','2003-07-23 14:11:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4807,1,3805,'205.158.210.19','Mark Buehner','cripplerxface@hotmail.com','','Well, more psychotic anyway.','2003-07-23 14:17:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4808,1,3767,'207.61.28.114','FreeIran','resume_dsr@yahoo.ca','','Are there any protests in Ottawa? Is it just me or is our Government sitting on their hands ???','2003-07-23 14:33:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4809,1,3808,'12.151.18.194','Mitch H.','hagmaier@zedxinc.com','','I just finished reading Holt\'s Rise and Fall of the American Whig Party, about the last major American party to die. He makes a very salient point late in the second half of the book - the political environment of the mid-19th century was well-suited to the formation of single-issue third parties like the various nativist, prohibitionist, and free soil parties, from which the Republican party eventually coalesced. Those conditions no longer exist - the state controls the ticket-making apparatus. The system is designed to maintain the existing two parties, or at least, coalitions using the existing names. The actual *contents* of the two parties have changed radically, but the apparatus remains.\r\n\r\nThe Democratic Party and the Republican Party will exist as long as the current ticket-making apparatus remains as it is. \r\n\r\nLast year, Democratic partisans were crying the new Democratic millennium. This year, the Republicans are announcing an emerging Republican majority. My guess is that neither is going to happen.\r\n\r\nI re-registered as a Democrat late last winter, after growing up Republican and voting as such for the last twelve years. This means that I\'m definitely moving against the current, but I did it for local, practical reasons. I live in a \"Red\" district of Pennsylvania, where the Republicans are an overwhelming majority. I have a natural aversion to single-party states. Additionally, I\'m politically more liberal than the local Republican party. However, registering as some sort of independent in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania is a fool\'s game - it excludes one from serious participation in the primaries. Thus, I have joined the Democracy.\r\n\r\nWhat I am saying, is join whichever party makes local and tactical sense to *you*. There are no machine-gun-toting thugs forcing Democratic party members to vote the Democracy and Republican party members to vote the\r\nelephant in the general elections. ','2003-07-23 15:28:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4810,1,3805,'134.67.6.24','Tom Lorenz','twoma3@netscape.net','',' I don\'t believe we want to capture Sadamm alive. In the middle east that translates to a hostage situation, a political process they have engaged in for over 1,000 years. Putting his head on a pike is enough to send the message and there will be no counter of hostage taking by the other side and no whinny-ass second guessing about it from the limp-wristed liberals. Whatta say Kate?','2003-07-23 15:30:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4811,1,3808,'172.173.164.234','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','michael is dead on target with his trending towards being an unaligned centrist independent. im already comfortably there though (might debate whether \"centrist\" is correct just because im not so sure a binary political axis is accurate -- unless we are talking about Anti-Idiotarians vs Hystericrats(tm)) and there isnt anything i can see happening in the near or medium term future that could possibly have me embrace either the reps or the dems. \r\n\r\nyes, the ballot doesnt care what i am, only who i vote for... but long term politics is just as much about what we build as it is about what already exists. \r\n\r\nit would be quite nice indeed to see a solid core of discussion by all these dissaffecteds leading to the emergence of a real life national and local big(I) independent option.\r\n\r\nfreedom loving independent hawks unite! \r\n\r\n(jaba can go and register just like everyone else.)','2003-07-23 15:37:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4812,1,3803,'152.163.253.3','button','button@nospam.com','','I submitted an entry about this matter to Greplaw from Harvard Law School\'s Berkman Center. And I have tried to encourage \"hoder\" to get in touch with Ben Edelman who has a lot of experience with this issue.\r\n\r\nIt has been my experience with the Iranians that they are lacking in crucial coalitioning skills to get something done because they keep getting distracted by anti-Semitism.\r\n\r\nTruthfully, I think they\'re going to end up as an empty slogan on a refridgerator door for the next couple of decades at least if they persist with this approach.\r\n\r\nThey keep insisting they don\'t want our help.','2003-07-23 15:44:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4813,1,3808,'199.50.29.41','George','ghjong@yahoo.com','','Ok, show of hands here - how many in the room voted McCain in the 2000 primaries? How many wish he\'d run again? Come on, I can\'t be the only one.','2003-07-23 16:04:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4814,1,3788,'4.60.35.180','cliff','cgstyles@hotmail.com','','My main point is this: I realize that NK marketing weapons IS the problem here. It can be solved with convincing threats. If it takes a lot of our resources, it will encourage the very people who are the main threat.\r\n\r\nNK will only sell weapons under a guarantee of anonymous use, that is, that no one knows they came from them. As the other sources who have the WILL to use them are eliminated (Iraq, Iran, islamicized Pakistan), the North Koreans become more visible. See Lee Harris\' argument at TechCentral.\r\n\r\nThe mullahs of islamism would love to see us tied down in North Korea right now.\r\n\r\nThe primary goal of the North Koreans in acquiring nukes is self-preservation. They will do this regardless of any agreements. We can change the regime, with great difficulty and enormous resources, or we can neutralize them. We do not have infinite resources, nor the political will to apply them if we had them. \r\n\r\nWe have tied up enormouse resources in handling Iraq...and still have not done anything about the more serious center of the islamist problem - Iran, Saudi Arabian wahabi schools, and securing the nukes in a Pakistan dangerously close to islamicization. North Korea, if we tackle it militarily, will distract us more. If we attack the center of the problem, we also neutralize North Korea.','2003-07-23 17:00:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4815,1,3803,'172.132.75.58','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','well i hope they wake up to the opportunity for the better life they so desperately want before we are forced to act for them. i do get the impression that some are definately lost in side tangents, but i still have hope that most wont lose track of what really matters to them. if anything, we are all going through many changes and the situation is very fluid. the best thing we can do is to remove any obstacles to communication the mullahcracy puts in place so we can at least discuss all of this with persians directly.','2003-07-23 17:16:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4816,1,3808,'172.132.75.58','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','only if he ran with a proposed cabinet with rummy-rice-wolfowitz in it. although mccain-rice 04 would be nice... has better ring than bush-rice. hmm, anyone think mccain can pull off a \"dave\" and replace bush as pres without anyone knowing?\r\n\r\ni do have to admit it would be a tough choice if i had a choice between bush and mccain in 04... i wont even mention the selfimploding dems or fringe wacko tiny candidates -- nader-kucinich anyone? *shivers*. ','2003-07-23 17:24:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4817,1,3810,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','...And a darn good thing it is, too. Ladies and gentlemen - we present Muslimpundit! Lovely to hear from you again, Adil.','2003-07-23 17:32:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4818,1,3809,'143.127.131.4','blaster','thecouch@covad.net','http://www.overpressure.com','It is good that the little things add up to big things, but I think we need to make some small victories very public. Obviously, some of it we can\'t crow about until the big thing happens. But some things we can.\r\n\r\nIt ain\'t bragging if you done it.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-23 17:53:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4819,1,3802,'68.5.110.43','Kevin Drum','calpundit@cox.net','http://www.calpundit.com','OK, well let me know when you do.\r\n\r\nI know we disagree on some things, but banging away at me because my post was on a different subject than you think I should have written about isn\'t very productive. That post was about what it was about, and you should criticize that, not the post I never wrote.\r\n\r\nAnyway, feel free to address the subject at greater length and I\'ll see what I think.','2003-07-23 18:08:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4820,1,3812,'138.162.0.42','madbob','madbob@budweiser.com','','Save your time - it simply will not happen.\r\nListened to NPR this a.m. - lead story was of the 2 US soldiers killed proves that the death of Uday & Osay will not reduce attacks on US/UK.','2003-07-23 18:45:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4821,1,3802,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Will do... consider, however, that the chosen focus of one\'s argument also sends a message. I probably shouldn\'t have been that sharp, but it\'s part of a building frustration. \r\n\r\nIt\'s one thing to disagree, another thing to not even be having the same debate because one side seems unconcerned with its fundamental questions. There\'s \"I disagree,\" there\'s \"ok we have an argument but that\'s just tone deaf,\" and then there\'s \"have these folks even grasped the issue or followed the news?\"\r\n\r\nIt\'s like... like some Orange County socialite engaged in a discussion of urban poverty. You know, breezily dismisses the role of government, then explains that she understands the issue because her friend Mitzi just had to sell her city apartment and move back into with her parents (in their mansion). And why don\'t we just build them all housing in big public projects, so everyone has one if they need it. That should help, right?\r\n\r\nYou\'d choke back a gag reflex, and roll your eyes, and wonder whether politeness and encouragement of some engagement on her part was worth suppressing your desired reply. Well...','2003-07-23 18:47:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4822,1,3812,'63.88.212.164','Michael J. Totten','michaeltotten001@yahoo.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','I don\'t know if I count anymore or not, but I have a post up.','2003-07-23 18:49:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4823,1,3812,'12.151.18.194','Mitch H.','hagmaier@zedxinc.com','','I think Joe means \"anti-war\" when he says \"Liberal\". Apparently we\'re all honorary right-wingers right now. \r\n\r\nNot that I care much one way or another. I\'ve always disliked labels - especially when someone\'s trying to peel one off of a half-empty beer bottle. But then, I hate it when people play with trash at the dinner table...','2003-07-23 19:00:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4824,1,3812,'63.189.136.12','Kathy K','noway@dev.null','http://site-essential.com/','People\'s Republic of Seabrook\r\nThe Rant. \r\nI started looking myself, early this morning, and that\'s all I found among the anti-war bloggers (liberal or otherwise).\r\nWar Liberal was also happy about it, if you insist on \'liberal\'. \r\n ','2003-07-23 19:08:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4825,1,3810,'207.157.122.249','cbk','cbk@comcast.net','','Great essay.\r\n\r\nI look forward to reading more.\r\n\r\nCBK','2003-07-23 19:10:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4826,1,3812,'63.189.136.12','Kathy K','noway@dev.null','http://site-essential.com/','I\'m checking ones who hadn\'t said anything yesterday or early this morning. Found another. \r\nthe talking dog: \"We are saddened to hear of the deaths of Qusay and Uday Hussein, at the hands of American aggressors at a villa in Mosul, Iraq. Not. \"\r\n','2003-07-23 19:14:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4827,1,3812,'63.189.136.12','Kathy K','noway@dev.null','http://site-essential.com/','\"Apparently we\'re all honorary right-wingers right now. \"\r\nYeah, I\'ve noticed that...','2003-07-23 19:16:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4831,1,3812,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtom@yahoo.com','','I sorta liked the post which said, \"Freddie and Jason will hear of this.\"','2003-07-23 19:33:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4832,1,3812,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','URL, Tom?','2003-07-23 19:42:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4833,1,3812,'4.20.74.62','Lesley','lesley@houseofplum.com','http://www.houseofplum.com/plumcrazy','They have such a post up over at The Rant, assuming one considers them liberal as opposed to moderate.','2003-07-23 19:43:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4834,1,3806,'63.189.136.12','Kathy K','noway@dev.null','http://site-essential.com/','Seems the Dems in AZ are very unhappy with McCain because he\'s more popular with Democrats then the candidates the Dem party puts up.\r\n\r\nMaybe you could draft him into the Democratic Party. (The conservative Repubs consider him a RINO anyway.)','2003-07-23 20:02:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4829,1,3810,'65.95.80.159','garrett','gcraw@cywrite.com','Http://138.133.17.7','RE: \"As I write, British intelligence authorities are still maddeningly lax about charging Islamists like Abu Hamza for their tacit complicity in taking up arms against sovereign states.\"\r\n\r\nAnd yet another possibility is that US and British governments would be obliged to take action against groups that plot to overthrow governments that are inimical to the US (or Britan). For example, there are frequently indications that Cuban expatriates are attempting to dislodge Castro. So if we believe that Cuban expatriates shouldbe allowed to use whatever means possible to undermine a recognized government in Cuba, we must allow the same to groups that we don\'t like. Groups that are inimical to our civilization must be caught in illegal acts that can be prosecuted within our legal system. (or destroyed by some other means, such as exposure and ridicule.)','2003-07-23 19:29:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4830,1,3803,'152.163.253.3','button','button@nospam.com','','Well, we\'re trying.\r\n\r\nThe next thing I expect is where the thugmullahs expand their franchises into brandname kleptocracies, like: the SwatchWatch Mullah-- he\'s the mullah in charge of all Swiss watches. You want to buy or sell a Swiss watch? You gotta go through him, and he takes his commission (baksheesh) either way. They could \"privatize\" all of Iran soon like that.\r\n\r\nI hope they start playing around with their new penile toy soon and Uncle Sam STEPS on it and smashes it. :-)','2003-07-23 19:29:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4835,1,3812,'128.171.187.62','Joel','yahoo@joel.com','','Gee, I guess my still-evolving usage is starting from the wrong end, but I still wistfully think of \'liberal\' as the more moderate end of the spectrum on the left.\r\n','2003-07-23 20:05:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4836,1,3808,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','The best satire convinces some people that it is real. Thanks, Mike T. Armed Liberal spotted it.\r\n\r\nMitch,\r\n\r\nIMO the thing to watch for is how sectional the Democratic Party becomes. The Federalists went down because they first became a sectional party, and then tainted themselves with treason at Hartford. I’m thinking more of the red/blue split than the South – the GOP had nothing in the South for more than a hundred years and did just fine. The sectional divide right now, though, seems more based on religion, and that is ominous for the Democrats as the rapidly growing Hispanic vote is so devout. Religious divides in American politics are often sectional based. If the Democrats are frozen out of the West in general, other than the coast, as well as the South they will be in peril.\r\n\r\nExperience here in California indicates that third parties can get started – what is necessary is that one party has to self-destruct. The California GOP is third behind the Greens in some counties because it was taken over by the anti-abortion single-issue faction, who then played exclusionary games. State Republican parties in other states have had major rows with this faction and now point to California as a horrible example of what happens if they win.\r\n\r\nThe real threat to the Democrats, however, is the timing of their activist base eruption. It is not uncommon for a barking moonbat faction to seize control of a party temporarily, paint themselves blue, howl at the moon, slobber in public, urinate on carpets and generally repulse the majority of voters. But right now we’re at war and siding against the nation is dangerous. I agree with Trent that the Democrats are dead for 2004. The danger is that they might be damned thereafter if their party both becomes tainted with treason a la the Federalists, and becomes sectional based a la the Federalists.\r\n\r\nThe Republicans would have been in big trouble 1942-44 if their isolationist wing had continued to oppose American participation in World War Two.\r\n\r\nTrent is right again that the activist Democrats don’t believe the war on terror is real. Andrew Sullivan noticed the same thing today – see this URL:\r\nhttp://andrewsullivan.com/index.php?dish_inc=archives/2003_07_20_dish_archive.html#105893464231917639\r\n\r\n“THE PRE-9/11 MIND: The more I read emails or talk to anti-war types, I get a sense that 9/11 never really happened. Or if it happened, it meant nothing more than a discrete crime with discrete criminals who alone deserved justice. The notion that it meant that we were and are actually at war with a series of terrorist entities and the tyrannies that support them never truly took hold on the far left (or right). As the months have passed, their complacency and denial have undoubtedly metastasized among others as 9/11 recedes from our collective consciousness and its emotional wound begins to heal. These people, it\'s worth remembering, believe that the exercise of American military power is almost always more morally problematic than any foreign tyranny or even a serious security threat to the homeland. They can only justify American military power if it is wielded under imminent, grave danger that can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. That\'s why they are so exercised about tiny pieces of evidence today. They still believe we were wrong to remove Saddam from power without incontrovertible proof of WMDs of a type unobtainable in police states; they still believe America had no moral sanction for such an action; and they are even more determined to prove the superiority of their case now that the war was such a military success. So they have to turn the fallible evidence before the war into \"lies\"; and they have to turn the difficult but worthy post-war reconstruction into a \"quagmire.\" They know the only chance they have is to turn American public opinion against the war so as to prevent any such exercise of military power again. In that sense, they really cannot simply be mocked. They must be challenged at every turn. For they are engaged in a process that will not only stymie efforts at reforming the Middle East but will make Americans and others more vulnerable to the designs of the Islamofascists and their terrorist allies. The war abroad cannot therefore be extricated from the debate at home. We will not win the former without winning the latter.\r\n- 12:30:51 AM”\r\n\r\nRandy Barnett’s guest blog on Glenn Reynold’s MSNBC site is on to this too, at:\r\nhttp://www.msnbc.com/news/856672.asp\r\n\r\n“LEFT LIVING A LIE?\r\n \r\nThe contention that George W. Bush lied in his State of the Union speech, now spreading through the media and into the base of the Democratic Party, has caused me (Randy Barnett) to think again about a phenomenon I have been noticing since the election of 2000. …”\r\n\r\nBarnett is talking about a “fantasy ideology” held by Democratic activists, in which events outside the U.S. are interpreted solely in terms of their fantasy ideology. I use the term “fantasy ideology” as defined by Lee Harris in his Tech Central Station column titled “Al Qaeda’s Fantasy Ideology”, which is mirrored at Steve den Beste’s site here:\r\n\r\nhttp://denbeste.nu/external/Harris01.html\r\n\r\nEven Democrats are concerned about the possibility that their party might cease to exist. See this:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.insightmag.com/news/447801.html\r\n\r\n\"Although I am a Democrat, I don\'t think that my party deserves to win the presidency next year. One reason is because most of our candidates have become demagogues. ...\r\n\r\nWith Democratic propaganda spreading widely, at least one prominent conservative, Paul Weyrich, chairman of the Free Congress Foundation, now is advising the White House to be prepared for the introduction of impeachment resolutions. Based on my own experience with impeachment politics, I agree with his advice. \r\n\r\nIn my case, I believe that political parties that thrive on demagoguery destroy themselves. These days I fear that the Democratic Party that I have known for 60 years now may be close to extinction.\r\n \r\nJerome Zeifman (jzeifman@yahoo.com) was the Democratic chief counsel of the House Judiciary Committee during the Nixon impeachment proceedings.\"','2003-07-23 20:06:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4837,1,3806,'166.61.238.10','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','What\'s a \"RINO\"? McCain is one of the few Republican senators I really do like and would elect. ','2003-07-23 20:08:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4838,1,3812,'12.151.18.194','Mitch H.','hagmaier@zedxinc.com','','If we\'re talking self-identified liberal, instead of anti-war, then there\'s\r\n\r\nJeff Jarvis\r\n\r\nand \r\n\r\nRoger L. Simon\r\n\r\nBut both of them have to defend their liberal credentials a lot these days.','2003-07-23 20:11:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4839,1,3812,'12.151.18.194','Mitch H.','hagmaier@zedxinc.com','','Oh! And Salam Pax.\r\n\r\nReally, though, this self-selects for pro-war sentiment. Except for Salam, and he\'s got other motivations for celebrating the demise of the Horror Brothers. Or, more accurately, regreting their postmortem escape from prosecution, I suppose.','2003-07-23 20:14:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4840,1,3812,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','\"Really, though, this self-selects for pro-war sentiment.\"\r\n\r\nNot at all, and believing this is the problem. The same reasons motivating Salam Pax should motivate every decent human being in this case. As TIME ably documented and we\'ve chronicled, these people were evil with a capital E. The fact that they\'re gone is good news, period, and anyone who can\'t bring themselves to acknowledge that has a hole in their soul.\r\n\r\nEven a pacifist could rejoice when Hitler died.','2003-07-23 20:38:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4841,1,3810,'207.252.251.121','Tom','redsnertz@yahoo.com','','CBK sez: \"And yet another possibility is that US and British governments would be obliged to take action against groups that plot to overthrow governments that are inimical to the US (or Britan).\"\r\n\r\nWhy should they be obligated to do so? It is clearly in their self interest to stop the groups that are dangerous to them. It is not clearly in their self interest to stop those that are not dangerous to them. Where is it written that they must be consistent?','2003-07-23 20:45:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4842,1,3806,'12.151.18.194','Mitch H.','hagmaier@zedxinc.com','','I do believe that would be Republican In Name Only. Damned ungracious of them, if they\'re still saying that. He\'s spent a lot of time stumping for Republican candidates in the last three years or so.','2003-07-23 21:19:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4843,1,3808,'12.151.18.194','Mitch H.','hagmaier@zedxinc.com','','Tom,\r\n\r\nI rather think that Paul Weyrich is a bit of a flake, and I\'d take anything he said with a good shakerful of salt.\r\n\r\nAs for the Federalists and a \"taint of treason\", the Democratic Party bore up under the taunt of \"rum, Romanism and Rebellion\" for decades after the Civil War. They did *not* come apart, or disappear the way that the Federalists and Whigs did. Between Buchanan and Wilson (1860-1912), the Democrats held the White House for a total of 8 years. That\'s a long time in the wilderness. They weren\'t replaced by the Socialists, or the Populists, or a Catholic party or Christian Democratic party, or any of the other European possibilities.\r\n\r\nThe third party system has been historically quite resilient. If the segregation era left the country with an intact Republican Party and an intact Democratic Party, I rather suspect that the current troubles will *not* see the demise of either, short of radical voting \"reforms\" that don\'t seem to be in the offing.','2003-07-23 21:41:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4844,1,3813,'67.120.233.230','Da Goddess','dagoddess@dagoddess.com','http://www.dagoddess.com','I was so naive!','2003-07-23 21:59:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4845,1,3806,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','cbk -\r\n\r\nI want a party because in reality, it is the mechanism of the party - the electoral staff, funraising lists, volunteers etc. that make it possible to wage a campaign for more than maybe a state Assembly seat. You need the infrastructure.\r\n\r\nNow some ideologs on both the left and right got smart and realized that by capturing the infrastructure, you could capture the ideology of the party.\r\n\r\nThey took it, and a bunch of us want it back.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-23 22:00:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4846,1,3813,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','I notice that you don\'t say you were so innocent...<g>\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-23 22:01:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4847,1,3812,'206.103.33.110','sblafren','sblafren@yahoo.com','http://seanlafreniere.blogspot.com/','Well Joe, you can count myself as a Liberal happy to see the back of Uday and Qusay. \r\n\r\nI am a born and raised Democrat. I switched to the Green Party when I finally realized that the Democrats were owned by the same corp interests as the GOP. But when the Greens came out in support of Terrorists this last year it left me homeless. \r\n\r\nI am still very Liberal... I believe that corporations should serve humans, not the other way around. I would protect the environment. And I would pay more to schools than to prisons. I also believe in Evolution and Gravity. I also support separation of church and state. I think this counts me as a Liberal. \r\n\r\nBut I also support fully our War On Terrorism, especially Afghanistan and Iraq, I believe they are perfect expressions of America\'s centuries long commitment to Liberalism, in fact. \r\n\r\nAnd I, for one, am THRILLED that two murderous, rapacious, mental cases like Saddam\'s spawn are gone from the map... course I think they got off a bit too easy considering their past. ;)\r\n\r\nSean \r\n \r\nAnd don’t forget Mike and Roger too.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\n','2003-07-23 22:15:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4848,1,3806,'207.157.122.249','cbk','cbk@comcast.net','','Suppose they don\'t want to give it back?\r\n\r\nWill you fight for the soiled vestment or craft a new one?\r\n\r\nHow much can they defile the party before what you are fighting for is worthless?\r\n\r\nReally, I wish you luck. But from where I see things today, the left has so seriously tarnished the name democrat that maybe you should just create a new label for your self and the others who have been forgotten by the current leadership.\r\n\r\nOr begin a grassroots effort to boot the moonbats. That would be rich. To see Kerry et al denounce Dean, Kuchunik and their followers as quasicommies.\r\n\r\nThis whole enemy of my enemy is my friend thing is fouling the whole lot.\r\n\r\nOr stump for Leiberman.\r\n\r\nCBK ','2003-07-23 22:30:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4849,1,3796,'4.40.150.214','Kim du Toit','me@kimdutoit.com','http://www.kimdutoit.com','Outstanding. I just wish someone could read this on TV -- even Ollie North would do -- just to counteract all the Vietnam-era carping that\'s starting to emerge.','2003-07-23 22:58:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4850,1,3812,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Is this a trick question? I don\'t even have to navigate to Michael J Totten, Roger Simon and Jeff Jarvis sites to know they are celebrating? Add in Matthew Yglesias, but I did have to check. Christopher Hitchens is not a blogger. In France (where I live), Pascal Bruckner, Alain Finkielkraut, and Bernard Kouchner (France is not big on blogging yet). \r\n\r\nMaybe the question is really about partisan politics: How many ANTIWAR LIBERAL BLOGGERS IN DENIAL are happy with the deaths? If they actually have to celebrate, as in jump up and down in glee, then maybe Yglesias doesn\'t count.\r\n\r\nIsn\'t this a bit like asking how many pro-impeach Clinton conservatives were happy (and celebrating?) the fact that the constitutionally provided impeachment system did not result in a coup d\'état?','2003-07-23 23:16:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4851,1,3808,'198.26.123.36','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Mitch,\r\n\r\n Far wingers like Paul Weyrich tend to recognize the commitment of opposing wingers in the other party. The term of art for that is \"the shock of the familiar.\" \r\n\r\n The growth of the Peroist Reform Party in 1992 and 1996 argues America is long over due for a political party death/realignment.\r\n\r\n If Perot had the political skills of a John McCain rather than a stark raving moonbat, as Tom Holsinger puts it, Reform would be a viable political 3rd party today. ','2003-07-23 23:34:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4852,1,3806,'63.88.212.164','Michael J. Totten','michaeltotten001@yahoo.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','I\'d love to boot the moonbats. Trouble is they\'ve damn near booted me. \r\n\r\nScrew \'em, I say. They\'ll get what\'s coming to them and then maybe they\'ll call me.\r\n\r\nIf not, fine.','2003-07-23 23:44:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4853,1,3812,'64.110.237.176','Jane Finch','dont@spam.com','http://www.jaycaruso.com','I was against the invasion of Iraq. I\'m happy the boys are dead. I said so publically. And I\'m a liberal.\r\n\r\nHowever, the people who seem to be NOT happy are those who say, \"isn\'t it great that Saddam\'s sons are dead\" for 30 seconds then head off to their favourite liberal bete-noir blog and get all outraged that liberals are still hating America.','2003-07-23 23:53:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4854,1,3810,'68.63.70.99','cbk','cbk@comcast.net','','Not CBK sez.\r\n\r\nGarret sez.','2003-07-23 23:56:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4855,1,3808,'198.26.123.36','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','>Between Buchanan and Wilson (1860-1912), the \r\n>Democrats held the White House for a total of 8 \r\n>years. That\'s a long time in the wilderness. \r\n>They weren\'t replaced by the Socialists, or the \r\n>Populists, or a Catholic party or Christian \r\n>Democratic party, or any of the other European \r\n>possibilities.\r\n\r\nThe difference between then and now is the Democrats had a pro-Union faction in the North and could field creditable on American nationalism candidates like Gen. Hancock of Gettysburg fame.\r\n\r\nToday the Democrats patriotic, Pro-War faction does not have a visible candidate for 2004 because their Presidential primary financing money men won\'t contribute to one.\r\n\r\nThat is where the Hartford Convention parallel comes in. You must have a loud, visible, pro-war faction and candidate between now and the convention. \r\n\r\nAs things are set right now between the time that who ever the Democrats have wins the nomination and the convention, Bush will hammer him with image defining TV ads between then and the convention the way Clinton did to Dole in 1996.\r\n\r\nAnd the point of those ads will be how anti-war/unpatriotic that Democratic candidate is using the attack spots and strategies of the losing Democratic candidates informed by the Republican National Committee\'s opposition research.','2003-07-23 23:58:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4856,1,3812,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','How much damage do we have to let George Bush do to society (mounting deficits, lack of basic health care, deteriorating education system, Scalia II and III...) before we independent disaffected Democrats get a viable movement (or our party back)?\r\n\r\nI could imagine voting for McCain or Rudolph Giuliani if they weren\'t Republicans: ie, if they didn\'t have to appoint a couple of nutcases to the Supreme Court as bones to the religious right.\r\n\r\nThe current disaffection of pro-security (otherwise) Democrats may be largely circumstantial. The far right religious nuts and Buchananites tainted the Republic party in 1996 in a way that was fatal. Today, the loony left is doing the same to the Democratic Party. Even Howard Dean is not per se beyond the pale. If you look beyond the politicking, he actually has (or used to have) a principled and thoughtful sort-of-anti-war stance. He is hardly anti-security or in denial about 9/11. The problem is the taint. And that problem extends to the party as a whole.\r\n\r\nA good candidate for the independent-minded pro war liberals is probably Hillary Clinton, and she is not running. Maybe I\'ll vote for her in 2008. She is a bit polarizing. But then is George Bush not?\r\n\r\nPart of Hillary Clinton\'s credibility on security issues she inherits from Bill, which brings me back to my main point about whether the Democratic party problem isn\'t circumstantial. Bill Clinton would have handled post-9/11 better than Bush. I don\'t think Bush would even have taken out an aspirin factory, and on 9/12 after circling in Air Force 1 for 24 hours he looked like he was about to have a nervous breakdown while Rudy Giuliani was running the country. I give him credit for the comeback, but only so much.\r\n\r\nBush is basically conducting a less competent version of a post 9/11 Clinton/Blair policy. Hell, even Al Gore would have done a better job than Bush.\r\n\r\nIs that provocative enough? (I still might vote for Darth Vader.)','2003-07-24 00:16:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4857,1,3812,'63.225.248.110','jb','jb@ritingonthewall.com','http://www.ritingonthewall.com','throw in david adesnik, who still insists he\'s a liberal (and clarifies things here just in case anyone missed it), and add justin slaughter at the filibuster.','2003-07-24 00:29:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4858,1,3812,'63.189.136.12','Kathy K','noway@dev.null','http://site-essential.com/','Of the three I listed that were anti-war, I\'d consider People\'s Republic of Seabrook and the talking dog as not only liberal but left-liberal. I\'d say the Rant is moderate-liberal.\r\n\r\nWar liberal, of course, speaks for himself.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-24 01:00:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4859,1,3815,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','And a \"right on, eh!\" from this corner. With guts like that, Tyler ought to be playing hockey.','2003-07-24 01:55:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4860,1,3808,'172.138.171.31','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','i think what we need (at least to start with) is an Emily\'s List for Anti-idiotarian/Indepenent Hawk campaigns. a way to combine support for good candidates and broad based general issue campaigns. i dont see any other way to start giving bite to our own desires for political change.','2003-07-24 02:18:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4861,1,3812,'207.62.247.69','roublen vesseau','roublen@yahoo.com','http://hardheads.blogspot.com/','If relative lack of liberal blogging about \"Udai on Ice(d)\" means that liberals don\'t care about evildoers being killed, doesn\'t relative lack of conservative blogging about coalition casualties mean that conservatives don\'t care about. . .no, let\'s not go there.\r\n\r\nDon\'t get too drunk on moral clarety, my friends. Do you *really* think liberals are unpatriotic and want the United States to do badly just to score off Bush? Or are you just taking out your frustrations and blowing off steam? \r\n\r\nIn other words, if one of your liberal targets had knowledge of Saddam\'s whereabouts, do you think they would call the military to go and the get the bastard, or would they call Iraq with the message \"Saddam, they\'re after you!\". \r\n\r\nOne of my favorite mottoes is \"don\'t argue like an ass\". That is, don\'t argue just to score debating points, argue only when you think something important is at stake. \r\n\r\nIf you really think your liberal targets would actually betray their country if it made Bush look bad, you should say so right out, and defend that view. But implying that a lack of liberal *blogging* (a more important activity, I cannot imagine!) about the successes of the Iraq war implies dark things about liberals, and means that liberals want the US to fail, is the epitome of \"arguing like an ass\".','2003-07-24 03:59:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4862,1,3812,'66.56.17.36','Shane','shane@western.com','','I\'m not a blogger, but I am a liberal. \r\n\r\nAs a matter of principle, I refuse to be \"celebrating the demise of\" of any person or show \"genuine happiness\" about anyone\'s death.\r\n\r\nI completely agree the planet is better off without those scumbags and I have no doubt that God will judge them as they deserve. If I had the opportunity to kill them myself, I would do it.\r\n\r\nBut don\'t expect me to celebrate.\r\n','2003-07-24 04:02:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4863,1,3812,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Shane -\r\n\r\nIt\'s not their death that\'s worth celebrating. I\'d much rather they\'d been captured, debriefed, and handed over to the tender justice of their countrymen (and women).\r\n\r\nBut their defeat on the other hand...their very personal defeat, which means that on a larger scale things should shift faster to the good in that sad country (Fisk notwithstanding)...that\'s worth celebrating.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-24 04:09:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4864,1,3812,'67.160.156.25','Michael J. Totten','mike.totten@netiq.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','Roublen Vesseau:\r\n\r\nI am not a conservative, but I don\'t blog about coalition casualties either. Not because I don\'t care but because I don\'t want to demoralize myself or my readers by focusing on negativity. Every casualty is a tragedy, and I am very well aware of that. And I mean every casualty on *both* sides, including the poor slobs that got enlisted to fight against their will for Saddam, and also including innocent Iraqi civilians who get hit by our fire.\r\n\r\nThere is simply too much negativity in the media, and I want to provide a bit of a counterweight. I am also by nature an optimist, so I focus on the positive aspects for that reason, too.\r\n\r\nI don\'t claim to be objective, balanced, or comprehensive.\r\n\r\nIf you have a good reason for not blogging the good news in the war, I\'m all ears. I won\'t assume you\'re an anti-American or a Saddam sympathizer unless you say something specific that leads me to that conclusion.\r\n\r\nBe anti-war if you want. I think it\'s a foolish position, but I don\'t think it\'s evil unless you actually hope that we lose.','2003-07-24 04:37:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4865,1,3796,'140.31.201.243','Carl H','orders@mauiholm.org','','I got a reply to a postcard I sent an old high school alum who rejoined the Marine Reserve just in time to get called up late last year. He\'s working in the shiite south. Other than having to rescue some ORHA reps when a mob thought they were meeting with a Baathist big shot, and the occasional pot shot at night, it\'s all been hard core civil assistance and infrastructure rebuilding. He misses his family, but he\'s glad to be there, and wouldn\'t miss an exerience like this for the world.','2003-07-24 04:39:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4866,1,3796,'129.44.175.4','grimly_amused','bluesgirl@yahoo.com','','Straight_Talk: this letter was sent to and leaked by a member of the press. The media is not your enemy.','2003-07-24 04:58:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4867,1,3812,'152.163.253.3','Hei Lun','xp39c@aol.com','http://duckseason.blogspot.com','**Steve den Beste** links to a guy from Democratic Underground who wrote this:\r\n\r\n\"Doesn\'t a part of you wish that Queasy and Duh-day were alive?\r\n\r\nI\'ll admit they\'re scum and rightfully so, but anything that lands as even more humiliation on W\'s grotesque shrivelled face is that much the better.\r\n\r\nIt\'s sad, really, that as despicable as they are, Saddam\'s family seems to be the lesser of two evils when you compare them to the wretched little bastard occupying the White House and destroying America in the process...\"\r\n\r\nI realize this is one guy, but yes, there are liberals (I\'d rather call them leftists) who are unpatriotic and want the United States to do badly just to score off Bush. You may say that this is just the lunatic fringe, but many of these people are Dean supporters, so if Dean gets the nomination, these would be some of the people who carried him to victory.','2003-07-24 05:23:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4868,1,3812,'67.225.186.192','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','\"Apparently we\'re all honorary right-wingers now.\"\r\n\r\nThat\'s not the case, but the fact that you\'re treated with some commeradere by us villianous, close-minded Conservatives, that we\'re actually open to feelings of fellowship with people who disagree with us on a lot of things but stand shoulder-to-shoulder in defense of the country, may be something worth thinking about.\r\n\r\n\r\nG.G. wrote:\r\n\r\n\"Bush is basically conducting a less competent version of a post 9/11 Clinton/Blair policy. Hell, even Al Gore would have done a better job than Bush.\"\r\n\r\nWhich is why Clinton was able to get the Security Council to unanimously pass a tough Resolution on Iraq when Saddam thwarted inspections in \'98, and why the entire problem was wrapped up via excellent Clinton Administration multilateral diplomacy, which convinced the World Community to unite in alliance and deal with Iraq and terrorism.\r\n\r\nThat is why 9/11 never occurred and we did not have to confront Saddam and invade Iraq this year.\r\n\r\nFor a less snide rundown, see here, under \"The Bad\".\r\n\r\nA.L. wrote:\r\n\r\n\"I\'d much rather they\'d been captured, debriefed, and handed over to the tender justice of their countrymen (and women).\"\r\n\r\nI\'m sure everyone involved in the operation would have preferred that, too; after all, if anyone would know where Saddam is, the brats would. Who knows if they would have talked before he lit out for a new hideout, but it would have been worth a shot.\r\n\r\nBut, underlaying a lot of these \"we should have captured them\" assertions is an assumption that we could have if we wanted. Seems like it was a pretty fierce firefight and they resisted strongly, and were not inclined to give themselves up alive.\r\n\r\nI\'m not sure you\'re making that error, but it is hard to tell from your comment. All too many people are. In doing so, I\'m afraid they show a bit of ignorance about these things and also a potentially cavalier attitude about the lives of servicemen that they sometimes say they value more than we warmongering Republicans do. guys going forward, even stealtily (remembering that this is not the movies or a Clancy novel) to try and sieze them and grapple them down and hog tie them (all five or so of the people in there, without getting shot by any of the others) would probably have been gunned down.\r\n\r\nI\'m betting they tried to get them alive, but they didn\'t cooperate.\r\n\r\nIt may be unChristian of me, but I don\'t mourn their passing.\r\n\r\nThis is also telling: for weeks and weeks we\'ve been hectored with \"well, we didn\'t get the big ones, did we? When are you going to get the big ones? How can you call anything a success until you get Saddam and his sons? We haven\'t found Saddam or his sons yet. There will be trouble until we find them.\" &tc &tc ad infinatum ad nausium\r\n\r\nWe get the sons and the same people who were saying that we couldn\'t start counting ourselves successful until we did minimize the accomplishment and/or turn to other critiques, and start acting like it\'s really no big deal after all. \r\n\r\nReally this isn\'t a surprise, though; it\'s the usual pattern.','2003-07-24 05:29:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4869,1,3812,'67.160.156.25','Michael J. Totten','mike.totten@netiq.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','Here is a link to a very unhappy liberal. (Ahem.) I meant leftist....','2003-07-24 05:56:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4870,1,3812,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Right Porphy,\r\n\r\nWhich is why Bush\'s central campaign theme in the 2000 election was greater U.S. involvement in nation-building abroad and opposing Bill Clinton\'s failure to get tough with the terrorists. Which is why Condi Rice proclaimed in her acceptance speech, \"America\'s armed forces will have to become a global police force. They are the world\'s 911.\" Which is why Bush spent the first eight months of his term aggressively fighting terrorism, confronting Iraq and dealing hands on with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.\r\n\r\nSuch a visionary.','2003-07-24 06:46:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4871,1,3812,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','P., A.L. has a very keen understanding of exactly what would have been involved in that raid. Keener, I suspect, than anyone else in this comments section. He\'s been through some interesting training - they don\'t call him ARMED Liberal for nothing.','2003-07-24 06:47:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4872,1,3812,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','The crux of the problem is simple: We independent liberals support at least the heart of Bush\'s security policy (if not the details of implementation on which I will not nitpick) but also want a realistic progressive social policy at home. And no, they are not inconsistent, despite the views of extremist libertarians (the latest fad).\r\n\r\nBill Clinton - love him or leave him (that was for Hillary) - and Tony Blair, despite the rearview mirrors, laid the groundwork for such a policy, however imperfectly, in their positions on Bosnia, Kosovo and Iraq, which were carried out DESPITE the international community and despite the French. The British-American no-fly zones were a \"unilateralist\" policy, which did not have U.N. blessing. Neither were or are unconditional multilateralists. The leading proponent of just such an interventionist foreign policy - and one that does not force us to swallow the damaging and economically unnecessary giveaways to the rich and general neglect of domestic social issues - remains Tony Blair, and Bill Clinton out of office.\r\n\r\nCriticizing Clinton for 911 (where were the Republicans anyway?) is the conservative version of Bush-Lied-About-WMD.','2003-07-24 07:05:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4873,1,3812,'68.161.135.185','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','I still consider myself a liberal, and I\'m happy.\r\n\r\nBut I\'m one of them pro-war liberals. . . .\r\n\r\n\"\"Apparently we\'re all honorary right-wingers right now. \"\r\nYeah, I\'ve noticed that... \"\r\n\r\n*sigh* Too true. But there is coming to be a critical mass of liberal prowar bloggers, and I predict this is a political constituency which will influence 2004 and Bush\'s 2nd term. ','2003-07-24 07:55:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4874,1,3812,'138.89.99.179','susanna','biasblog@hotmail.nospam.com','http://bias.blogfodder.net','Here is an anti-war liberal who is glad they\'re dead - just a snippet to prove the case, she has a little more to say on her site:\r\n\r\nWhile I\'m glad they\'re dead, though, it still doesn\'t mean I feel the war was justified.
\r\n\r\nDifferent Strings','2003-07-24 12:26:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4875,1,3808,'12.151.18.194','Mitch H.','hagmaier@zedxinc.com','','Hancock lost, which I think is the operative fact. I suspect that Wesley Clark would lose if the Democrats nominated him. \"Gunpowder\" nominations don\'t have a particularly encouraging history in the absence of well-defined issues or a viable coalition behind the “gunpowder” candidate.\r\n\r\nThe Reform Party was interesting in that it didn\'t attract any viable political factions. Perot got a lot of votes, and a couple of protest candidacies here and there (Ventura!) succeeded under the flag, but in general, it was all herd and no hat. I mean, do you remember those appalling, clownish state conventions the Reforms suffered through? It almost seems, from the Reform example, that any practical attempt to form a third party will suffocate under the weight of dysfunctional political activists too antisocial, unhinged, or obstinate to find work in the mainstream. I could understand that sort of thing going on with pressure group parties like the Greens, but Reform was supposed to be a new centrist party.\r\n\r\nThe historical record of new \"centrist\" or \"Union\" parties is not encouraging. American political parties form in opposition to each other. A centrist party is fundamentally lacking in a counterweight - it either isn\'t in opposition in anything, and thus lacks passion and commitment (like most \"Union party\" attempts), or finds itself in opposition to everything else, and suffers from a sort of political schizophrenia (like the Reform Party).\r\n','2003-07-24 13:27:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4876,1,3812,'67.225.186.161','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','\"Which is why Bush\'s central campaign theme. . .\"\r\n\r\nAnd Gore certainly was campaigning on going after terrorism and dealing with the Middle East decisively, right?\r\n\r\nThe thing about your answer is it is utterly non-responsive and slips the actual policies Bush has implemented since Sept. 11th down the memory hole. If we look at records, Bush has been imperfect but he has done more on this front than Clinton did - Clinton tabled the problem at each stage, and you are claiming that he did better.\r\n\r\nIf you\'re going to make such a claim convincing, you\'ll have to argue the case and refute the points I made inregard to Clinton\'s record against terrorism and in dealing with Iraq vs. Bush\'s.\r\n\r\nYour reply was, instead, a non-sequiter that implies to me that you know full well your claim that Clinton was handling it better is false on its face and cannot be rationally argued.\r\n\r\nI wasn\'t criticizing Clinton on 9/11 - I was refuting your assertion that he had better policies on this (you\'ll re-read my comment and find absolutely no mention of 9/11, you\'ll also search my website archives and find nothing blaming Clinton for 9/11 in that fashion- not to any greater degree than I blame Bush); this is a straw man raised to attempt to delegitimize counter-argument to the point you made; such tactics are below you.\r\n\r\nJoe wrote:\r\n\r\n\"A.L. has a very keen understanding of exactly what would have been involved in that raid. Keener, I suspect, than anyone else in this comments section.\"\r\n\r\nI haven\'t undergone such training but my Uncle has and a Cousin has. If I seemed to over-react to what A.L. said then I apologize.\r\n\r\n I have seen far too many posts by people, or people talking on TV and whatnot, simply assuming we could have caught them easy if we wanted to, and few if any of them have anywhere near any knowledge whatsoever of what is involved, nor do they appear to understand that in combat the other side\'s actions influence the outcome too. Lots of people - almost entirely on other sites (but some of the commenters here, though not A.L.) seem to hold two contradictory visions in their head: we\'re simultaniously complete screw-ups and on the other hand all-powerful in our ability to get things to work out exactly as we want, and if (for example) we didn\'t capture Uday & Qusay alive it\'s because we didn\'t want to (for whatever sinister reason) or just didn\'t try hard enough or didn\'t think at all about how it might be valuable to get them alive, and just cut them down in bloodthursty Cowboy style because we\'re vengeful or something. ','2003-07-24 14:13:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4877,1,3115,'219.95.5.103','postal code','king2003@hotmail.com','http://www.zipcodesdatabase.com','Count me in please.','2003-07-24 14:17:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4878,1,3812,'67.225.186.107','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','A bit more: I\'ve always said that we didn\'t take terrorism seriously enough before 9/11; that is not the same as claiming Clinton\'s to blame for 9/11, and \"we\" isn\'t \"Clinton\" - it\'s America (and the world).\r\n\r\nTo the extent to which Clinton Administration policies have come up in this regard, when I write I have always said that Bush\'s weren\'t any different, any better, before 9/11.\r\n\r\nI think this is a fair analysis. However, it does not support a contention that Bush\'s policies now are worse or less competent than Clinton\'s were.\r\n\r\nTo reply to the effect that I\'m then \"criticizing Clinton for 9/11\" is specious; at best it makes my eyes roll. Especially since you were replying to a comments where I didn\'t mention terrorism, much less 9/11; the topic was the handling of Iraq.','2003-07-24 15:20:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4879,1,3810,'67.33.198.54','TomTom','ktnoell@prodigy.net','','Was it Emerson who said,\"Consistency is the hobgoblin of foolish minds\"? Consistency seems a peculiar hangup of the liberal Left. They won\'t cross the centerline stripe even to avoid a head-on collision!','2003-07-24 15:27:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4880,1,3812,'66.129.125.155','Oceanguy','oceanguy_fl@yahoo.com','http://oceanguy.blogspot.com','Amygdala\r\n\r\n','2003-07-24 16:30:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4881,1,3812,'198.26.123.36','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.ent','','G.G. Wrote:\r\n\r\n>The current disaffection of pro-security \r\n>(otherwise) Democrats may be largely \r\n>circumstantial. The far right religious nuts and \r\n>Buchananites tainted the Republic party in 1996 \r\n>in a way that was fatal. Today, the loony left \r\n>is doing the same to the Democratic Party. Even \r\n>Howard Dean is not per se beyond the pale. If \r\n>you look beyond the politicking, he actually has \r\n>(or used to have) a principled and thoughtful \r\n>sort-of-anti-war stance. He is hardly anti-\r\n>security or in denial about 9/11. The problem is \r\n>the taint. And that problem extends to the party \r\n>as a whole.\r\n\r\nYep. Letting your party get taken over by barking moonbats does that, but two points: Pat Buchanon was the Reform Party\'s 1996 candidate. It was his performance in the _1992_ Republican convention, and in particular his prime time floor speech, that tainted Republicans with the general public until Bush in 2000.\r\n\r\nThe problem for pro-war Democratsis that Democratic fundraising has become a ideological monoculture compared to Republican fund raising. That is why Democrats lack an identifiable pro-war presidential candidate. It doesn\'t pay campaign contributions to be one.\r\n\r\nBitch about the Religious Right as you will. their fundraising methods are what has prevented the Republicans from suffering the same fate. \r\n\r\nHaving a large base of \"subscription\" small contributors is how the Religous Right runs its mega-churches. Republican activists copied this model with their mailing list contributors in the 1970\'s and it is why they have such an institutional hard money advantage despite all the campaign reforms since then. Every level of Republican organization and individual candidates has its or his own list of \"subscription\" contributors.\r\n\r\nIf pro-war Democrats are serious, they would do well to duplicate the Religious Right\'s fund raising methods so they can have a pro-war candidate.\r\n\r\nA.L. wrote:\r\n\r\n>It\'s not their death that\'s worth celebrating. \r\n>I\'d much rather they\'d been captured, debriefed, \r\n>and handed over to the tender justice of their \r\n>countrymen (and women).\r\n\r\nCelebrating the death of monsters is always worth it.\r\n\r\nBush 41\'s lack of celebration and dancing on the Soviet Union\'s fresh corpse is part of the reason he was a one-term President.\r\n\r\n\r\nG.G. wrote:\r\n\r\n>A good candidate for the independent-minded pro \r\n>war liberals is probably Hillary Clinton, and \r\n>she is not running. Maybe I\'ll vote for her in \r\n>2008. She is a bit polarizing. But then is >George Bush not?\r\n\r\nWatch Hillary\'s voting record on the Daniel Pipes nomination in front of the Senate.\r\n\r\nHillary is in the thrawl of the State Department, the Mid-Eastern Academic establishment and the Wahhabi Lobby.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-07-24 17:44:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4882,1,3812,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Ok Porphy, Ok Trent,\r\n\r\nFair enough. Porphy at least phrases the terms of the debate correctly: Bush\'s actual policies versus Clinton/Gore hypothetical policies (extrapolating - fairly - from prior policy in a different context). I actually give Bush fairly good marks on handling of post 9/11 and Iraq. I do think Clinton was simply more competent and would have handled the diplomatic aspects better, with a somewhat better result, tho\' I have no illusions of French troops fighting alongside us. (But hell, who knows with the French?) I frankly do not distinguish much between Clinton policy and the *new* (emphasis on *new*) Bush policy largely building on Clinton precedents. It\'s maybe harder to see that post 9/11. The best evidence for me is Tony Blair. Clinton and Blair had a \"unilateral\" as \"get tough\" policy on Iraq as could reasonably be expected in the pre-9/11 world: no fly zones, Kurdish protectorate, \"Monica strikes\" of both questionable timing and policy, etc. Blair and Clinton have been extremely consistent on the Iraq question for the last 8 year, more so than Bush or the Republican Party as a whole. The same is true of Hillary Clinton, who as a non-candidate is not handicapped by the lunatic left pushing her over the McGovernite cliff (The Pipes nomination is interesting, but not litmus test stuff for me. Wahabbi lobby? Come on.)\r\n\r\nBut that was only a subsidiary part of my point: My main point is that there are national security Democrats - probably most of them - who could do as least as good a job on foreign policy and, for my tastes, a far better job on domestic policy. The Democrats\' problem is that they need to show more of the Tony Blair in them but are handicapped by the hardcore left side of the party that opposed the war, are obsessed with the lying about WMD theme - no more idiotic btw than Republicans obsession with lying about sex (talk about barking moonbats!) - and are coalescing around Dean in the (delusional) belief that he is a leftwing peacenik. Dean\'s problem, like that of the other Democrats, will be tacking back to the center where they really belong. Right now they are playing to their short term strengths in Iowa and New Hampshire. But this may be just the Democratic equivalent of visits to Bob Jones University. It\'s more of a strategy than a substance problem, unless they tie themselves into read-my-lips type non-interventionist commitments, and I don\'t see that happening. The bottom line, come election time, is will they be seen as trustworthy on national defense or as mortgaged to a core peacenik constituency in denial. I\'ll wait and see.\r\n\r\nThey are also handicapped by an incumbent wartime president who appears larger than life but who, at bottom, is no Tony Blair or even Bill Clinton. He is in fact an appalling president in virtually every respect except in the crucial area of national security, where he\'s got it basically right.\r\n\r\nMaybe I\'m not going to vote for Darth. \r\n\r\n(Luke Luke! Trust me! Use the force...)','2003-07-24 18:19:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4883,1,3812,'166.61.238.10','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','He is in fact an appalling president in virtually every respect except in the crucial area of national security, where he\'s got it basically right.\r\nIMO that really is a perfect description of Bush.','2003-07-24 18:37:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4884,1,3812,'206.190.18.178','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The problem with \"progressive\" social policy as it exists on the left is that it is based on putting a a gun to people\'s head to get what you want.\r\n\r\nNowe no progressive I know would go up to some one and threaten them with a gun in order to get a desired social result.\r\n\r\nNor would they hire the gunning out.\r\n\r\nWhat they would do is claim that once they had the magical 50.1% then their putting a goverrnment gun to people\'s heads is perfectly OK. Good even.\r\n\r\nDo you know what they call a country whose social policy comes from the barrel of a gun? A tyrany.\r\n\r\nNow why do \"progressives\" think tyrany is preferable to liberty?\r\n\r\nThis is the problem Hayek pointed out with all social policies enforced at the point of a gun. They have to lead to varying degrees of dictatorship. Once you start working against peoples\' intrinsic motives the costs start to rise quickly.\r\n\r\nDrug war any one?','2003-07-24 19:01:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4885,1,3812,'131.15.49.8','OldFan','ealmasy@hotmail.com','','The very best thing about the closing of the cases on Saddam\'s monstrous spawn is that NO lawyers were involved in the process at ANY time.\r\n\r\nThe total abscence of any legalism in this process is one of the reasons that so few of the Left are rejoicing. They are absolutuely committed to a world in which the State is the only institution that matters and ANY significant activity performed outside the rules & regulations of a vast political apparatus, whether it is the rough & tumble of the battlefield [Armies are creations of states but only fools think they work like one] or social changes wrought by new technologies. \r\n\r\nAnother thing that seems to really bother some people that the priority on this mission was taking these scum down without losing any of our troops. No search warrants, no \"reading them their rights\", no \"probable cause\", just \"we have hard intel, let\'s roll!\" and \"surrender or die, your choice.\" It just does not fit their view of the world.','2003-07-24 19:30:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4886,1,3812,'138.133.17.8','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','GG - I think your characterizaton of Clinton\'s policies are somewhat overstated; I think that the primary emphasis was on legal responses to terror (arrest and trial), and as I recall, they batted better than .500 in that area.\r\n\r\nBut they never went far beyond that.\r\n\r\nAnd that fundamental mischaracterization of the problem is a part of what brought us 9/11.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-24 19:40:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4887,1,3812,'67.225.186.107','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Well, the thing about hypothetical policies is one can only go by the evidence we have. Quite a lot of people have come to different conclusions and been happy that it is Bush rather than Clinton or Gore handling things, including a solid number of pro-war Gore voters in the bloggosphere.\r\n\r\nI think we could go around in circles on that; the only support we have is past practice and what Clinton and Gore have said.\r\n\r\nI think, likewise, that many of the things Bush is criticized for \"botching\" or mishandling are things that it would have been hard for anyone to do better on - things like \"we didn\'t get all the allies on board\". As you allude to re. the French, it\'s hard to convince someone who isn\'t open to being convinced. Which was a point I made in \"Gore Speaks\" - those who are asserting that Bush simply mishandled things and if, say Clinton had been there, then those who opposed us in the UN would have supported us are arguing from a flawed premise, because no amount of persuasion was going to move those who were committed to the other side.\r\n\r\nA bit more behind the scenes \"bullying\" *might* have, threatening them with consequences more dire than they feared they\'d lose with the fall of Saddam. But the usual criticism is that any \"stick\" is unacceptable; and refusing to point out negative consiquences leads to a \"moral hazard\" - if they have nothing to lose from opposing and can only gain - if only by not sharing the costs and risks but managing to get people to convince us they should retain all the benefits - then there\'s only an upside to opposing and no downside, so guys like Chirac are going to go for it; thinking they have nothing to lose from trying to protect Their Man in Baghdad, they\'ll go for even low-probability strategies. Why not? If you tell me I can play high stakes roulette and all my losses will be covered but I can keep my winnings, I\'ll play games with low odds. No reason not to.\r\n\r\nThat, unfortunately, appears to be the Democratic message and when Clinton and Gore have decided to speak on that aspect of things, theirs too. Given that, IMO it\'s debatable whether Clinton or Gore diplomacy would have achieved as much as Bush has.\r\n\r\nBut, setting that aside, a lot of the criticisms we\'re seeing are really things that amount to the world being imperfect; you\'ll notice in that \"Gore Speaks\" post I didn\'t assert that Clinton *could* have gotten stronger support; my implication, indeed, was even the opposite of that. This is because many people are acting as if we\'re the only Decision Making Actors in the world and others just respond to the input we give them with feedbacks. But they take up positions and commit themselves to them, too.\r\n\r\nSimilarly, those who are asserting that there was no plan or we\'re screwing up in Iraq or Afghanistan due to incompetence fail, IMO, to take into account that \"Shit Happens\". It happens in our own lives, we should understand that it *especially* happens in things like war and major projects.\r\n\r\nThis isnt to say there are no valid criticisms and that we can\'t do better - I have raised criticisms. But many of the most common, generalized criticisms are off base for those reasons. You can be as competent as hell but the other side may not be stupid and incompetent (not completely) and thus can throw wrenches into things; also, in a world of finite resources, there isn\'t always the capacity to do everything one might want to as quickly as one wants.\r\n\r\nIn sum, though: would Clinton or Gore have done better? I don\'t think you\'ll convince me you\'re right and I doubt I\'ll convince you you\'re wrong. IMO at *best* they would have done about the same, about as well.\r\n\r\nAs for domestic stuff, I\'m going to avoid debating that here and now.','2003-07-24 19:50:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4888,1,3819,'131.216.143.20','A. Diggins','jadiggins@cs.com','','I agree that he is making a mistake. It may be that he is assuming the majority of the country wants to go back to the party of the 1990s and can\'t do the heavy lifting required. He\'s wrong. I think people want to be mobilzed. Want to help. Bush should have capitilized on that for the past two years instead of advising us to \"just get on with our lives.\" It isn\'t too late. I have three sons, one will be of age to go to war too soon for his mother\'s comfort. I want to help make this better so he doesn\'t have to, but the president needs to have faith in the American people. Not just ask us to have faith in him.\r\n\r\nA. D.\r\n','2003-07-24 21:04:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4889,1,3819,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Tyler Hamilton is inspiring in a way that Lance Armstrong has always been. What is stomach turning has been the complaints from some French riders that he was faking the injury, until X-rays of the fractures were shown on French TV. Pathetic. It\'s like the complaints over the years from the French that Armstrong - a cancer surviver - is riding doped. Double-pathetic. That characteristic French combination of projection and envy. \r\n\r\nNow, how the hell you tie this into strategy in the war on terrorism/Iraq, etc. - God knows!\r\n\r\nFirst, let me wear out one theme a bit more: Iraq was not an option and should not have been an option for the UNSC after 17 resolutions. If enforcement of international norms of behaviour on a regime that had LOST A WAR and FAILED TO ABIDE by the CEASEFIRE TERMS imposed by the VICTORS IN THAT FIRST WAR requiring coming clean on WMD was of urgency 5 years ago - and I had not trouble supporting overthrow of the Hussein regime 5 years ago on those grounds alone - tossing in 9/11, Al Qaida and the sheer brutality of the regime only added to the urgency. The basic problem was always there.\r\n\r\nThe general question of a plan as phrased is loaded with too many subquestions: war on terrorism, war on Al Qaeda, why the war in Iraq, how do we get out of Iraq, where do we go from here, etc. Steven den Beste has a piece today in the WSJ (a reedited version of a post from a couple of days ago) that goes a way towards addressing some of these questions, I presume more along the lines of Trent\'s thinking (but of course he speaks for himself). \r\n\r\nI think it comes down less to having of a detailed plan, than a rational overall approach or philosophy. I also think that Bush has articulated such an approach: a doctrine of preemption, drawing firm lines not to be crossed, and institutional reform - too ambitious and sweeping to be put into anything you could call a plan, as opposed to a vision. (I think he should add to that vision an absolute principle that any country suspected of developing a nuclear potential that does not open up its facilities to serious international inspection, whether that country be Iran or Sweden, will immediately have those facilities destroyed. I also think the nuclear club should get together and unambiguously adopt such a position.)\r\n\r\nDen Beste\'s indirect implicit point, in part I think, is that leaders are elected based on our faith - ah, the tie in to Tyler Hamilton! - in their ability to come up with the specific implementations partly improvisized from that vision. It\'s nice to have the vision fleshed out, but I doubt FDR announce on the eve of D-Day that an invasion was imminent. We even trust leaders to make tough decisions that may be unpopular but, as we may know deep down inside, necessary. Ask Tony Blair or José Maria Asnar.','2003-07-24 21:05:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4890,1,3819,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','I think you do Trent a dis-service. He didn\'t say _Bush_ the man had a plan, rather he said the Bush _Administration_ has one. To the extent it belongs to any one person, the person is National Security Adviser Rice. The plan can be found at:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nssall.html\r\n\r\nThis is grand strategy. It\'s at the top of the food chain. Strategy is generally created on a country-by-country basis for important countries, and sometimes on a multi-country basis for a region. Strategy is a plan for a single campaign. Iraq was one campaign. North Korea is another, and Iran will be a third.\r\n\r\nStrategy necessarily entails deception. Grand strategy does not, and it is grand strategy which must be sold to the public.\r\n\r\nNothing a Republican president says can give Democrats a backbone. That they have to find for themselves.','2003-07-24 21:14:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4891,1,3812,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','AL - Who was batting better? Did Bush articulate a policy during the 2000 campaign or his first 8 months in office even addressing the issue? It just wasn\'t on the map. Everyone missed it. \r\n\r\nPorphy - Agreed one hundred percent. See my comments on AL\'s post re: Bush\'s supposed lack of an Iraq-War on Terrorism-Al Qaida etc. strategy.','2003-07-24 21:18:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4892,1,3812,'67.225.186.107','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','G.G. - Continuing the Diplo theme, on that aspect of things I don\'t believe our view of the history is that different; see Dividing Lines for a recent post I made that referred to the events you mention.\r\n\r\nHowever, IMO it is partly because of the tensions that were emerging then that I don\'t think that many of the criticisms of Bush\'s diplomacy are valid - IMO A.L. is on-point a bit with an overstatement of Clinton\'s policies on your part but I\'m setting that asside.\r\n\r\nBut on the Diplo front, it was becoming increasingly difficult to get support from certain countries for *anything*, regardless of who was in the White House or how skilled or unskilled their diplomacy was.\r\n\r\nThe reason was differing viewpoints and perspectives, divergence in interests and attitudes that cannot be bridged with fine words and persuasion.\r\n\r\nTo put it another way, on a smaller scale, no amount of persuasion on Bush\'s part would be likely to convince Bernie Sanders to support Bush\'s tax cut program, even if it was the best sell-job ever, because they have differing philosophical outlooks and at this point in his life I don\'t think Bernie Sanders is going to give up Socialism and change his views and become an apostle of Milton Friedman. Likewise, vice versa - even the most competent diplomacy on Sanders\' part wouldn\'t persuade Bush to adopt a Socialist policy agenda.\r\n\r\nIMO, competent or incompetent diplomacy played far less of a role in whether or not France was going to veto the Nth (2nd, 17th, 19th, whatever) Security Council Resolution or not (and I would hardly call French or German diplomacy blameless; as is rather typical and not unusual at all over the decades, whether a Republican or Democrat is in the White House, undiplomatic remarks towards the U.S. from European officials are far more common than the other way around and even this time whatever, say, Rumsfeld said pales when compared to many of the remarks issuing from there).\r\n\r\nI can\'t restate everything I\'ve expressed on this over the last ~8 mo., but if you\'re interested I recommend this post and this one which is part of a series that continues here and here. The intra-blog links (to my own previous posts) connect to some of the other things.\r\n\r\nthis post on Collectivist Internationalism goes into why I think there is a divergence as well.\r\n\r\nHere\'s one that gives a materiel explanation for why Chirac behaved as he did; obstruction in the UN had little to do with how good Colin Powell may or may not have been at stroking Dominique (who is a man) de Villepin.\r\n\r\nThen a post lamenting the drift but seeing it as somewhat inevitable. It doesn\'t even \"blame\" the French et al.\r\n\r\nA Open Letter on the topic and this post that was a response to something A.L. posted.\r\n\r\nHere\'s something.\r\n\r\nThere are plenty more but I\'ll stop with those. I think that where we diverge is that I do not think that this clash was something that could (again) be papered over with some diplomatic niceties.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-24 21:26:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4893,1,3820,'68.173.17.112','Joe Maller','joe@joemaller.com','http://www.joemaller.com','I write the following as a third-generation, life-long registered Democrat who voted for Gore:\r\n\r\nThe Democratic party needs to resoundingly lose the next election. They need to be overwhelmingly defeated for the long term health of the country and the party.\r\n\r\nI am almost 100% certain that I will vote for Bush in 2004. Bush has earned my respect and confidence over the past two years, but I will also be voting against my party who I do not currently consider fit to govern. My biggest concern is that the Republicans will misinterpret their mandate and lose focus. The \'middle of the road\' is theirs for the taking.','2003-07-24 21:26:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4894,1,3812,'67.225.186.107','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','(I was scribing that post as you were writing your latest reply).','2003-07-24 21:29:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4895,1,3812,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Porphy - Matter of degree only. And probably slight at that. I could probably simply limit myself to saying that I think Clinton would have recognized the need - like Blair - to forcefully address the post 9/11 problem and the implications re: Iraq, and his public statements tend to support that. The matter of degree may simply be a little less broken china (or Limoges porcelaine), but their would likely have been lots of sweeping up. Essentially, I agree with you.','2003-07-24 21:32:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4896,1,3819,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','I would add: What is a plan supposed to look like? Resolution? Exit strategy? I\'m not sure that having a plan in a meaningful sense is possible in the kind of war we are in. It\'s not military defeat alone with a predictable timeline that is relevant here. It\'s ideological defeat, something far trickier, against asymetrical warfare, something that is not going away any time soon, indeed ever. Any \"victory\" will be relative and ever tentative. As Tony Blair said in his speech a couple of days ago, this is unprecedented and history is not much of a guide.','2003-07-24 21:43:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4898,1,3819,'206.190.18.183','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','A.L.,\r\n\r\nYou know if I had a son in the military the most important thing for me if I trusted the leaders of the country would be to keep the war plan secret at all costs. That would minimize the danger to my son.\r\n\r\nIf I was like you and didn\'t trust the leadership I\'d keep my son out at all costs.\r\n\r\nOf course not believing in the obvious progressive idea that the best way to help the poor is government enforced theft followed by the social workers cut, the thieves (enforcers) cut, and the remainder (if any) to the poor, my ideas are probably a bit peculiar.\r\n\r\nI can see the draw of robbing Peter to give charity to Paul. It makes one feel virtuous while still promoting robbery. And you must admit that raising the required funds for the largess necessary is much easier if robbery is allowed than if you have to work for it. Work is hard. Robbery is easy. I vote for robbery. \r\n\r\nCan I be a progressive again? Pretty please?\r\n\r\n(All unannounced sarcasm is the responsibility of the author. Preceede at your own risk.)\r\n\r\n','2003-07-24 21:59:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4899,1,3819,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','M. Simon -\r\n\r\nI think you started out too far to the left, and the pendulum swung back a bit too violently. Maybe its due for a swing in the other direction?\r\n\r\n(Luke! Luke...)','2003-07-24 22:07:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4900,1,3820,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','A.L., maybe you could. And the good news is, thanks to the blogosphere you don\'t have to.','2003-07-24 22:14:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4901,1,3819,'206.190.18.183','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','My problem with the communist/socialist/progressive idea is that at the core all these ideas depend on theft for their functioning. \r\n\r\nTheft is not a sound basis for any system. I suppose I\'m old fashioned in that regard. \r\n\r\nDurn, it looks like I have already lost my progressive credentials. That didn\'t take long.','2003-07-24 22:14:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4902,1,3819,'206.190.18.183','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Gabriel,\r\n\r\nGlad to hear that you are a believer in theft. The world needs more thieves. I mean progressives. \r\n\r\nYou know I really prefer the term progressive. Thief sounds so mercenary. So lower class.\r\n\r\nThe honest thief robs you with a six gun. The decietful thief robs you with a pen. The hegemonic thief robbs you with a vote of the legislature. That vote separates the thief and the fraud from real honest men. If it is political it is not a crime is my motto. When I\'m a progressive. \r\n\r\nWhich is why Twain called Congress America\'s only native criminal class. I guess he hadn\'t heard of progressives.\r\n\r\n===============================================\r\n\r\nNow I am a believer in government even if limited in scope. Some theft is necessary for the support of such a government. However, we should try to keep it as small as possible because we understand that theft is fundamentally wrong even if a necessary evil in the case of government. We ought to reduce the evil to it\'s smallest possible dimension.\r\n\r\nI don\'t see how any one who understands the drug war can believe in the benevolence of government. Course as I said, I have some strange ideas.\r\n','2003-07-24 22:31:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4903,1,3819,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','O.K., guys, can we please put this conversatrion back on track here... thanks.\r\n\r\nBack to A. Diggins, who makes one of the most perceptive comments I\'ve heard in a long time. Lot of people seem to be on a roll these days, and he\'s one.\r\n\r\nThen let\'s head over to Tom Holsinger\'s rejoinder that the grand vision is on the web right here. \r\n\r\nLet\'s assume that IS the grand vision right now. What\'s missing from it that needs to be there? If the answer is \"nothing\", how does it need to be communicated in ways that aren\'t happening right now?','2003-07-24 22:40:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4904,1,3819,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Well M. Simon -\r\n\r\nNothing wrong with strange ideas. But my first principle is not \"I thieve therefore I am\". I think it\'s more a question of compromise and tradeoffs. I\'m more Rawlian I guess. But I suppose you don\'t believe in veils of ignorance? Hell, someone might rip you while your not looking.','2003-07-24 22:44:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4905,1,3819,'138.133.17.5','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','M. Simon - \r\n\r\nPeople are social beings; property is a social construct. Taxes are no more theft than invention is...\r\n\r\n...but both are a topic for another thread.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-24 22:50:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4906,1,3819,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Back on track. \r\n\r\nNice sounding grand vision. Two thoughts:\r\n\r\n- I think AL is maybe looking for something like a five-year plan: like what is our basic strategy in Iraq and Afghanistan (hot, crucial, the public needs reassurance), Israel and Occupied Territories, Iran and Korea (WMD), Saudia Arabia and Syria (Terrorism), Sub-Saharan Africa (Humanitarianism), the French and the Germans (Childcare), the Italians and the Spaniards (Cooperation), Eastern Europe (Core future allies), the U.N., China and Russia (necessary partners), etc.? How are the central themes? How do they all fit together? Who pays for it? Where do we seek specific cooperation from allies? What is the mid-term goal?\r\n\r\n- Second thought: Jay Leno\'s joke about Bush having a domestic policy for Iraq but none for the U.S.','2003-07-24 22:59:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4907,1,3819,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','GG gets at an important truth - the center of gravity for opinion in the USA isn\'t the opinion media, or the blogsphere. It\'s the \"comedysphere\".','2003-07-24 23:10:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4908,1,3812,'66.76.152.113','Wun','wunwong@hotmail.com','','Have you looked at Rittenhouse yet? It\'s anti war and happy that the Saddam sons are dead:\r\n\r\n\r\nhttp://rittenhouse.blogspot.com/2003_07_01_rittenhouse_archive.html#105899955321697036','2003-07-24 23:15:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4909,1,3820,'199.50.29.41','George','ghjong@yahoo.com','','Joe, I think the Republicans have already misinterpreted their mandate and lost their focus. Don\'t get me wrong - I\'m still voting Bush in \'04, but I\'m not happy about it. While I\'m sympathetic to the liberals about losing their party to the far-left nuballs, how do you think free-trade, small-government conservatives feel about losing our party to the left? I\'ll never forgive Karl Rove for making me wish for the days of Democratic fiscal responsibility and trade liberalization (did I really just write that?).','2003-07-24 23:16:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4910,1,3818,'216.111.205.143','Jabba the Nutt','jabba_the_nutt@excite.com','','I\'ll bet that CNN has similar arrangements in Cuba and it would be interesting to look at other dictatorships, where CNN has bureaus.','2003-07-24 23:20:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4911,1,3808,'67.225.186.10','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Just a historical comment here, since Republican isolationism was mentioned; in \'40 the Republican nominee was Wendel Wilkie, who was not from the isolationist wing of the party. Actually, isolationism cut across party lines in that era - there were a number of Democratic Senators & Congressbeings who were as isolationistic as any Republican.','2003-07-25 00:21:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4912,1,3820,'172.153.164.148','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','I\'m not an economist but I wonder if the government simply had to go into major debt partly because of the downturn in the economy.\r\n\r\nAlso, the idea that the Republicans have ever been responsible with money or even for small government is hilarious to me. Afterall, Reagan, the patron saint of Republicans everywhere, spent like a nutter. \r\n\r\nAlso, \"Gephardt\" is still misspelled in the text. I don\'t think he has a chance. His face is freaky (does he have eyebrows?) and it\'s too difficult to spell his name.','2003-07-25 00:29:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4913,1,3819,'66.14.124.105','Jeff Medcalf','medcalf@caerdroia.org','http://www.caerdroia.org/blog','I think that Trent was absolutely correct, as was Steven Den Beste, who recently expressed a similar opinion. There is a time for sharing plans and goals, but not all plans and goals can be shared at any given time.\r\n\r\nFor example, would you argue that in January of 1942, President Roosevelt should have announced that the focus of the war was Europe, that the Pacific war would be an island-hopping campaign, and that the European war would be fought first in N. Africa? That would have been criminal: it would have told the enemy where to put his resources. Now, once we were solidly on the ground in Africa, it would have been reasonable for the President to say that the UK would attack from Egypt, and we would attack from Morocco, and we would crush the Germans between us. As long as the President didn\'t give away which thrust was the main thrust, no information would get out that the enemy wouldn\'t have already figured out.\r\n\r\nFor President Bush, prior to entering Iraq, to have articulated the strategy of Iraq first, followed by {Syria, Iran or Saudi Arabia}, followed by ... would have been criminal, because it would have rallied the enemy (and I don\'t mean the Iraqis, but the Arab/Muslim countries of the Mid-East in general) against us. You think not having Turkey was a problem? Imagine not having Kuwait!\r\n\r\nI\'m not sure that the President can articulate that strategy yet. It may not be possible until the next country has fallen, because until then it might be unwise to give the enemy information on where he needs to be strong and where he can afford not to be. I\'m not sure, frankly, when it will be OK for the President to tell us the strategy. That might not happen until the next President is in office.\r\n\r\nAnd I\'m OK with that. One of the primary jobs to which we elect a President is Commander in Chief. It is the President\'s sole responsibility to fight as best he can the wars that Congress commits us to. We are committed by Congress, expressing the will of the people, to the war on terror, though Congress has opted to approve each campaign separately, rather than passing an omnibus declaration that would include all terrorists and all state sponsors of terrorism and all countries attempting to acquire nuclear arms which don\'t already have them. The President has the job of determining the strategy, and implementing it. Our responsibility is to remove him at election if he\'s not doing that job as we desire. Congress\'s responsibility is to remove the President by impeachment should they determine that the President is not fighting the war as well as possible and according to the will of Congress as stated in the declarations of war that have been passed.\r\n\r\nAnd that\'s it. I\'ll speculate about - and judge - strategy, and read other people\'s speculations and judgements, and I\'ll form that into a will to vote at election time. It will affect not just my vote for President, but also my votes for Congress and Senate (this will be the first election in a long time where none of those votes will go to a Libertarian, because the Libertarians oppose fighting the war overseas at all). But I won\'t demand an explanation from the President, since he\'s already stated his philosophy. I will judge based on the results as I see them, not on the plans and motives of the candidates.\r\n\r\nI will demand a partial explanation from the President\'s opponents, though, since there are no results to judge by. They need to state their philosophy in general terms: do they agree with the Bush doctrines of treating state sponsors of terrorism as inseparable from the terrorists themselves, and of pre-emptive action to remove threats; do they think we should stay in Iraq or pull out, and if so what should we do instead? I don\'t want them to state their proposed strategies either, though.\r\n','2003-07-25 00:32:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4914,1,3806,'147.56.15.221','David','dcbrenna@comcast.net','','cbk\r\nthanks for those thoughts. I have been a long time dem. What concerns me is the elitism of the current crop of young demos. My current decision (a lot can happen in a year) is I vote for Bush, but support the field of local dems. I actually believe the cleansing of the party with a resounding defeat in\'04 would be healthy. Political reality says that core Americans will not support the weird left (and they are NOT liberals, but snobbish brats who can’t articulate a decent argument) and the current national candidates seem unable to discipline these anti-WTO nuts. IF, and it’s a big IF, the party can focus the domestic debate on important things like healthcare reform in Congress, then a strong Bush victory means the war on terror is properly prosecuted for 4 more years, and then the dems can regroup. It’s the only way I see to deal with my malaise. A democratic congress and a republican presidency; the best (better) option?','2003-07-25 00:37:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4915,1,3819,'165.66.72.212','Tim','tj@hotmail.com','','This really isn\'t a problem for Bush, or for waging the war.\r\n\r\nRegarding the war on terror, we\'ve all read enough web commentary to understand that either you get it, or you don\'t. Most get it - some have gotten it, but are discouraged or distracted by \"setbacks\" in Iraq or in local politics - and others (like the nine spineless wimps pandering to arch-Bush haters to earn the right to be a sacrificial lamb in 11/04, for example) will never get it.\r\n\r\nBush has plenty of time for events (i.e., progress against al Queda, success in Iraq, collateral benefits in the Middle East) to convince the discouraged and distracted and to discredit those who don\'t get it.\r\n\r\nOr, to jump off on the Tyler Hamilton/Tour de Vichy analogy, it\'s the whole race - not a time trial.\r\n\r\nA quick check of Bush\'s speeches since 9/11 on the war will confirm he has never spoken of a short, easy war - but has always described it as long, and often unseen. But in a time of exceedingly short news cycles and ever more information, it\'s easy to forget.\r\n\r\nNow, that\'s not say that broader policy discussions concerning national mobilization or domestic security or related concerns are not necessary - but that when it comes to keeping on task, the Administration does not cause me to doubt or fear for our success.\r\n','2003-07-25 01:06:28','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4916,1,3821,'66.47.140.59','Sean','goodlookingui@earthlink.net','','Although I have felt this was the case for some time, the recent flip flop by Gephardt is making increasingly obvious that Joe Lieberman is the Democrat\'s last hope for credibility on national security issues.\r\n\r\nActually, Lieberman HAS challenged his party\'s orthodoxy on national security issues, though not as forcefully as I would like -- and often in the context of reminding Democrats that they can\'t win back the White House unless voters trust Democrats \"to keep the country safe\" or something like that.\r\n\r\nMy advice to Lieberman would be to accept the fact that, given the condition of the Democratic activists who dominate the primary voting process, he cannot win the nomination in 2004, and that his REAL campaign is for the Presidency in 2008. Once Lieberman comes to terms with this fact, he will be able to provide a critique of the direction the party is heading that will resonate if the Democrats lose as badly in 2004 as many here (myself included) think they will.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-25 01:11:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4917,1,3821,'138.133.17.10','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Trent, I\'ve obviously done a bad job of making my point. It isn\'t that GWB needs to \'reach a consensus\' with the Democrats; I don\'t think that\'s possible, given the current state of the party.\r\n\r\nBut the fuel this battle requires is the faith and commitment of the American people. The tank is relatively full right now. But it\'s leaky (and yes, certain national politicians are out there drilling holes). And Bush isn\'t doing obvious things that he ought to be doing to refill it.\r\n\r\nAnd believe me, when it runs dry, things will get damn ugly. I\'d rather that didn\'t happen; I\'d rather people (in both parties) moved toward where I (and to to a more extreme extent, GWB and you) stand.\r\n\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n','2003-07-25 01:16:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4918,1,3819,'67.225.186.10','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','I certainly don\'t subscribe to the notion that all taxation = theft, but otoh if you believe that property is a social construct and the community (the state) has an a priori claim on whatever we happen to have or earn and thus we should be happy with whatever we\'re left after society is done with us, you\'re probably disatisfied with the Democratic candidates because you should be voting Social Democrat.\r\n\r\nGetting back to the Stratfor quote you extract, though, there\'s a logical disconnect between the subject sentance and the argument that follows; the enunciated complaints really have little to do with whether their is a grand strategy or not - something others adressed in prior comments.\r\n\r\nThe \"perceptions\" that are out there we have already discussed elsewhere and they are driven by misinformation, not on the part of the Bush Administration but by its critics.\r\n\r\nIn sum, the Bush Administration never said the things that they are being accused, implicitly, of having said, and they did articulate things that they are being accused of not having said; however, the drumbeat is to claim and/or imply otherwise.\r\n\r\nThe Bush Administration never said there wouldn\'t be difficulty in Iraq following the war itself - they were careful, indeed, to point out that difficulties remained and there would be problems.\r\n\r\nSimilarly, the Bush Administration never claimed that the broad war would be quick and easy - indeed, they have maintained it would be long and span several Administrations, not just theirs.\r\n\r\nThe \"perception that the planning for the Iraq war was incompetent\" is likewise something fostered by critics who are misrepresenting the facts in many degrees, large and small. Some of them are mentioned in that \"Gephardt Speaks\" post of mine that you kindly plugged. When they get the opportunity, Administration officials strive to rebutt the accusation that they have no plan or that adjusting their strategy in Iraq is not a sign that there was no plan or the plan was flawed - the critics want people to forget the old adage that \"no plan survives contact with the enemy\" and it is a sign of *competence, not incompetence, to adjust in the face of unforseen events, the unexpected, or things that are recognized as not working as hoped; this is far better than sticking, Soviet-style, to the scripted plan hell or high water. But we\'re being told otherwise.\r\n\r\nWhy? Well, the truth boils down to the fact that though the Bush Administration is far from perfect and indeed there are a lot of apt criticisms that can be made most of which are not the criticisms that are being levied - again, we\'ve commiserated about this in the past - other institutions in the country, in particular the ones that are heavily influenced by the critics, are simply malfunctional, dysfunctional, or non-functional.\r\n\r\nIn our society, a free society where we\'re not yet treated entirely like a collectivity (we\'re social beings therefore everything belongs to society), it\'s not just up to the government to transmit to the public the information they need, a (hopefully) accurate picture of the world, as in Statist societies where information/media are controlled by the government. It is up to other institutions, not just public institutions, to give people a full picture - not a half-picture, a distorted picture of reality.\r\n\r\nThis is, instead, what we are getting. So while the Stratfor piece seems to lay the blame for this entirely at the feet of the Bush Administration, at least the part you quote from, they are not playing it straight themselves in doing so. This refers back to discussions we had in the last couple weeks, involving posts like Of Course You Know, This Means War, succeeded by this one, to which you wrote this response and I followed up with this, leading to a chain of exchanges ending up here, now.\r\n\r\nSee also The Walking Dead: I too, as you know, think Bush should have done far more to mobilize us than he has. However, I think there would have been a internal fight over it, of dimensions that some would not suspect.\r\n\r\nI am worried as well that we\'ll lose the war. But note that Stratfor terms it as \"the war against al Qaeda\" (your emphasis continued) - the narrowest definition of the war, one that we agree is inadequate, and is mainly used by those opposed to any sort of Grand(er) Strategy that goes beyond al Qaeda (a symptom, not a cause).\r\n\r\nThe reasons we may lose have some to do with Bush, but mostly - in my opinion - to the degree to which he, too, is driven, tugged - in part by misrepresentative and distortive portrayals that put everyone under certain constraints - to being an \"expression of rather than cause of\", as I termed some of the Democratic candidates in the \"Of Course You Know, This Means War\" post; because the fact that he is less affected doesn\'t mean he is immune. These things create a policy/political environment/atmosphere that is impossible for anyone to completely escape.\r\n\r\nHe could confront it more directly; which would mean dropping the \"new tone\" and engaging in ideological combat which will be more bitter than even what we\'re seeing now - what we\'re seeing now is the passive-agressive form of it. Just wait till we see the openly agressive form of it when there is a direct challenge.\r\n\r\nBack to the malfunctioning institutions; I\'ll recommend a search of my site under the search-terms \"Long March Through the Institutions\". I\'m planning a post that more directly adresses this, but for now that and the above will have to do.\r\n\r\nThe fact is, as others have pointed out, the Bush Administration has, in speeches, policy statements, and documents, outlined a strategic vision, but this was mischaracterized and then buried by the institutions that the Citizens of our Republic depend upon to provide them a complete picture of the world, because those who populate those institutions are largely hostile to what was outlined, and also for reasons similar to the form in which, say, Gephardt\'s speech was transmitted to people who didn\'t see the whole thing. Of course, any synopsis, short version, leaves things out, but we\'re typically getting presentations that are entirely misleading and often portray the reverse of reality. One can see that in examples posted all over, for example, Andrewsullivan.com and Instapundit.com referencing how this or that presentation by this or that person (say, Wolfowitz) or in this or that place (say, Afghanistan) are distorted to unrecognizability in the form they are reported to the American people.\r\n\r\nAs for the comedysphere rather than the mediasphere being the center of gravity for information in our society - actually, Leno\'s been pretty good when compared with some of our Professional Journalists; but there what happens is a characterization of a characterization: Leno characterizes, in humor form, what the Story of the Day is. What has made Leno good of late is that he happens to have a fairly well functioning Bovine Fecal Matter Detector - almost though not quite as strong as Dennis Miller\'s - so he sees *some* of these stories as the B.S. they are and then pokes fun at that.\r\n\r\nAs for Bush not having a domestic policy, though; that, too, is less than accurate. G.G. knows better himself. Bush has one - a guy like G.G. might not like it, but he has one. There are aspects I criticize, too; I bet I criticize & deplore things that G.G. might, if grudgingly, think were at least in the right direction while he criticizes the things that *I* think were on the right track. But that\'s a dispute over aspects of the policy, not whether there is one or not.\r\n\r\nWe should also remember that Bush ran to do domestic things; we critiqued his campaign themes in previous comments because, as it turned out, events showed that those were the wrong priorities. Bush has, for better or ill, devoted the attentions of his administration and the spending of its political capital increasingly on foreign policy matters, related to the war - something he hoped to avoid since the Bush Family firmly believes that this pitfall is what cost his father (so he tries to divide his attention best he can). But something I think all of us here (or at least the pro-war among us) is what his Administration should make his foremost priority - IMO in part on the rather strong grounds that avoiding smoking craters in the downtowns of your major cities is sound economic policy, and that such craters are bad for jobs and financial well-being.\r\n\r\nAn Administration can accomplish only a limited number of policy objectives in one Term and Administrations that try to push more than can realistically be pushed through our system usually fail at all their efforts. I for one can remember, if others have forgotten, a time in the six or so months after Sept 11th when people (the aforementioned Andrew Sullivan was one) were saying that Bush should simply drop domestic matters and make his Administration a War Administration, focused on winning the War. The argument was exactly thus; given the economic costs of the Sept. 11th, he could do the most good for everyone by insuring that more like it didn\'t happen and *that* \"could produce a dangerous domino effect\" in the economy, to borrow a phrase from the Stratfor piece.\r\n\r\nThat *is* how they have spent most of their political capital. They have pushed other policies in line with their domestic policy agenda, but naturally haven\'t been able to pursue that with full focus, because, well, their main focus is on something else.\r\n\r\nAnother longwinded post. Sorry, I felt I had to cover a lot of ground in it.\r\n\r\nI\'m not trying to let the Administration off the hook for the things they\'ve done poorly or the things they should have done but didn\'t. But there are apt criticisms and inapt ones; inapt ones enable and foster, rather than refute, the forces that I think need to be confronted.','2003-07-25 01:20:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4919,1,3819,'67.225.186.133','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Ok, well I would agree in the following fashion: Bush should be more like Reagan in the sense of speaking more often directly to the American people.\r\n\r\nIMO it is true that they close him off from such opportunities too much, because they\'ve all come to internalize the hype that Bush is inarticulate.\r\n\r\nHowever, if we remember the SotU speech as it was rather than the characatured distortion that has, like a Changeling, been put in its place in characterizations of it, the post-Sept. 11th speeches he made, the actual speech on the carrier, rather than the misrepresentation of it, Bush *has* been able to speak persuasively to people. He\'s not as eloquent as Blair or Reagan - unlike Reagan he didn\'t spend his middle years honing the skill, nor a lifetime in politics like Blair. But he can and has been good and he should do more to go around the media and speak directky to the American people.\r\n\r\nThis is clearly the only way his views and statements will be accurately communicated in most venues and one of his errors is not doing it more often.','2003-07-25 01:49:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4920,1,3821,'68.52.70.6','Donald Sensing','thisis@notit.com','http://www.donaldsensing.com/','Coincidentally, Steven Den Beste has a new, long post addressing these very same concerns. Click here. \r\n\r\nPlain address:\r\nhttp://www.denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2003/07/Tellingthetruth-2.shtml','2003-07-25 02:01:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4921,1,3821,'165.66.72.212','Tim','tj@hotmail.com','','Pro-War Democrats/Liberals won\'t confront the anti-war Democrat/Liberal loons because to do so would split the party - as there is no possible compromise. So, the pro-war Democrats/Liberals attack Bush not to vent their frustration - but to fuzz over the differences with anti-war Democrats/Liberals and to co-opt enough support to be the party\'s nominee/sacrificial lamb.\r\n\r\nRegarding A.L.\'s point about the tank running dry - I don\'t see it. Most understand the war on terrorism - but they don\'t need to be over-sold the war any more they were the Cold War. Americans really have no appetite for living in a society constantly mobilized for war. True, it is possible there might be times during the war on terror that the public is non-supportive, as it was in the Vietnamese war. But the difference between this war and the Cold war - to date - is unconventional weapons and state-sponsorship.\r\n\r\nAbsent terrorists securing unconventional weapons and state-sponsorship, we should be progressing toward victory. For without them, the terrorists ability to conduct large, successful operations against us is greatly diminished. Without battlefield success, the terrorist recruiting pool shrinks to the criminal, the half-hearted and the easily duped with few positive options in life. Not exactly anyone\'s ideal soldier.\r\n\r\nWhich takes us to the \"root cause\" argument. Ultimately, Arab and Islamic nations need to fix themselves. While this is a necessary condition for victory, it isn\'t one we can achieve by announcing it as official U.S. policy, wholly endorsed by the American people. You think they hate us now? Just wait until it\'s official U.S. policy that Arab and Islamic states, by their mere condition (of cultural failure), are a threat to our security.\r\n\r\nNo. Like a drunk who cannot cure himself until he hits bottom, the Arab and Islamic nations have to realize they have a problem, and that its up to them to fix themselves. Iraq (hopefully) can show them how to get there. And Iraq can also show them what happens if they don\'t.\r\n\r\nBecause if the Arab and Islamic nations should fail to fix themselves, and the war REALLY escalates - there won\'t be any Arab and Islamic nations left - because we are NOT going to let them destroy us. Really, we won\'t.\r\n\r\nBut nobody really wants to hear that, let alone think about it, do they? And can you (or anyone else) blame them?\r\n','2003-07-25 02:16:06','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4922,1,3821,'67.225.186.22','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http:/www.porphyrogenitus.net','Sean: as Lieberman probably knows, he can\'t look to \'08; either Hillary! will be running then and will clear the field, or she\'ll be running for her second term.\r\n\r\nI think most of the guys in the race right now know that they have to run now, because the Democratic Nomination four years from all is already in the bag.','2003-07-25 02:19:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4923,1,3821,'64.171.3.135','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','I suspect this is all a bit academic. The analysts on the other side are very smart. They will think of every Grand Strategy angle we will, possibly more as they know their weaknesses. Den Beste also makes the arguments for Bush not engage in a public debate over stratergy specifics. Bush is accustomed to being underestimated by folks like AL in situations like this. He will let it roll off his back.\r\n\r\nUltimately the American people do not choose strategies, they elect leaders. In the last grand strategy debate in an election the issue was decided by a five year old girl playing with a daisy. In this election the issue will be decided by a soft money ad that will not be run by either political party. Its power will be derived precisely from the fact that is has been censored domestically for over two years. It will be the image of a man and a woman leaping to their deaths, hand in hand, from a burning tower.','2003-07-25 02:30:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4924,1,3794,'63.88.212.164','Michael J. Totten','michaeltotten001@yahoo.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','zhermit said: \"So, ForNow, it sounds like you\'re saying that because we have power, and feel threatened, we should use it, and use it in a blunt force manner? And how is that going to not lead to more terrorists?\"\r\n\r\nDid fighting the Nazis make them angry? Did that anger in turn create more Nazis? \r\n\r\nDiscuss.\r\n\r\nzhermit also said:: \"Terrorism can\'t necessarily be treated as war, because it is far too easy to accuse someone of terrorist actions - and far too easy for someone to be mistreated because of it. However, it is not simply a crime. It\'s somewhere in the middle, but I\'m not really sure where, or what that implies.\"\r\n\r\nThis is why I hate the phrase \"War Against Terror.\" This is not a war against a military tactic. It is a war against Islamofascism in both its secular and theocratic varieties.\r\n\r\nIslamofascists have already killed millions of people, zhermit. Millions. September 11 was just one act of a decades-long battle. (For starters read the tragic recent histories of Sudan, Algeria, Iraq, Iran.)','2003-07-25 02:41:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4925,1,3812,'63.231.61.41','Chad','tacoshoppsychic@hotmail.com','http://ectophensis.com','I\'m happy they\'re gone. I\'m a pro-war anti-Bush liberal.\r\n\r\nNow where\'s my cake?\r\n','2003-07-25 02:48:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4926,1,3808,'66.47.140.59','Sean','goodlookingui@earthlink.net','','I think when the obituary on the 2002 election is written, the come-from-behind victory of Mary Landreu in Louisianna could come to be seen as an unmitigated disaster for the Democrats. Landreu\'s runoff election victory -- after she jettisonned the bipartisan posture adopted in November -- convinced Democrats that standing your ground and fighting (often just for the sake of fighting) was the way to beat the Republicans. It also led to the rise of Howard Dean (who I do believe will be the Democrats nominee in 2004), who was the first Democratic candidate for President advocate the \"Fight Bush For the Sake of Fighting Bush\" strategy.\r\n','2003-07-25 02:53:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4927,1,3819,'63.206.169.93','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','A.L.\'s opening post: \"...ultimately this war will be won by the side with the stronger faith; we are matching our faith in our vision of the future against our opponents\'.\"\r\n\r\n\"Whatever happens\r\nwe have got\r\nthe Maxim gun\r\nand they have not.\"\r\n\r\nHillaire Belloc\r\n\r\nDemocrats gotta problem with force. Republicans don\'t.\r\n\r\nFrom my column, _The World\'s Coming Encounter With Andrew Jackson_, at http://www.strategypage.com/strategypolitics/articles/20021128.asp:\r\n\r\n\"... Failure to defeat terrorism means further attacks at home, so lack of resolve is not an issue. Ditto for ability. Americans in general, particularly their Jacksonian element, tend to believe in using all available force when involved in a serious war, and being attacked at home qualifies as one. Walter Russell Mead said in Special Providence: \"The only reason Jacksonian opinion has ever accepted not to use nuclear weapons is the prospect of retaliation.” \r\n\r\nThe United States will use whatever means are necessary to win the war against terror, up to and including genocide against whole countries and peoples.\"\r\n\r\nI doubt such will be necessary, but means isn\'t the problem, nor is having the stronger will. We need only minimal will given our means. The only Americans for whom will to win is an issue are the \"Democrats\".\r\n\r\nThis is why the Democratic Party is in danger of extinction. _Deserved_ extinction.\r\n\r\n\"The Democrats banished their national security faction long ago, and feel military policy is merely a variant of domestic policy - either pork-barrel spending or armed social work among ungrateful foreigners. Every problem looks like a nail if your only tool is a hammer. Democrats are unable to accept the existence of evil or the necessity of winning in war. This resulted in collapse of public confidence in the Democrats\' ability and willingness to protect the American people, even if many Democratic internationalist proposals have merit.\"','2003-07-25 03:35:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4928,1,3708,'65.41.244.157','anonymous','something@yahoo.com','','Ben Harper and Jack Johnson are both phenomenal. Their lyrics and musical talent are awe-inspiring. Listen to them.','2003-07-25 04:01:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4929,1,3819,'67.225.186.229','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','\"This is why the Democratic Party is in danger of extinction. _Deserved_ extinction.\"\r\n\r\nWell, as long as we\'re quoting, I\'ll quote Wellington; I think it\'ll be \"a damned near run thing\", though in the end it may be decisive, one way or the other. I think the extinction of the Democratic Party is a possibility if it doesn\'t remake itself along the lines A.L. outlines but with the even, IMO, significant if of whether what Joe has termed the \"Pan-Western Culture War\" is engaged by us and won; and this matter goes far beyond a political, partisan campaign.\r\n\r\nIt means waging rather confrontational intellectual battle at home, in ways that Bush et al have prefered to avoid. They have avoided it because it \"isn\'t their thing\", because they are busy, and because there are big risks. If things seem nasty now, we aint seen nasty yet till this erupts into the open. Politicians have a tendency to avoid it because the damage is slow, or seemingly slow, and they have a natural tendency to want to defer dealing with problems until they absolutely must if they can, because confrontation, especially domestic confrontation, turns people (voters) off, in particular the \"can\'t we all just get along?\" set that will blame whoever seems to initiate an open conflict of this sort. I mean, in the end this is one of the reasons Lieberman, who has something of a strong past record on this score, has jettisoned it himself.\r\n\r\nI think Bush is failing to see the danger that\'s posed and think that he\'ll be able to get by on a \"new tone\" theme of not fighting back. It occurred to me that this is why they haven\'t been more agressive, taking the offensive, on some of these criticisms. Instead they fell for a \"Lucy-and-the-Football\" thing. An example? The way they\'ve played this Uraniumgate faux-crisis. Instead of fullsomely arguing back in a way that some webcommentators and bloggers have, they have half-defended themselves while going the \"we made a mistake and we\'re sorry\" route.\r\n\r\nWhy did they do that? It was a strategy adopted because for years and years the media-mavens and pundits have always claimed that \"well, I wonder when an Administration will realize that if they only came clean at the start of one of these things, admitted they made a mistake, and said they\'d be sorry, scandals like this would go away and they\'d get credit for admitting an error, because we\'re very forgiving people.\"\r\n\r\nWell, Charlie Brown has tried to kick that football again and again and again and again on this when the truth is the whole thing is bogus at bottom. Too-clever-by-half avoidance of open confrontation (which would, I admit, be characterized as \"stonewalling\"): the \"the statement is true, British the intelligence is different from that stuff from last fall, the British stand by it, but we made a mistake and we\'re sorry\" hasn\'t worked on the \"forgiving\". Well, again, except with Clinton who does apear to understand.\r\n\r\nWhat is at stake is an effort by the forces that need to be confronted to discredit not just Bush but certain policies; they would go after any Grand Strategy as A.L. proposes the same way they did the Bush Administration foreign policy doc, mischaracterizing it then burying it. They are the ones creating the \"perceptions\" mentioned in the Stratfor piece, almost invariably out of whole cloth and through the use of distorted mirror/lense shown to the public.\r\n\r\nThat has worked; it will continue to work until it is confronted and defeated. If it is not, then the wrong elements will win, not become extinct. Unless and until not only the Bush Administration but more importantly a considerably greater number of people than have take up this fight - a fight that we did not declare but has been being waged, mostly by one side, against us for a long time now - then it\'s IMO rather more likely that our Civilization will be what becomes extinct; a prospect that won\'t displease the sort who tend to lay blame for all that goes wrong and the credit for nothing that goes right in the world at our feet. The reason the Bush Administration cannot do it alone, or even - perhaps - the main part of it is that it would be too easy to characterize them as acting out of spite in their own selfish interests, that they\'re really just mad at people who have been \"holding them to account\" and \"administrations always dislike and fight with their critics\" and the like.\r\n\r\nBut we\'ll see.','2003-07-25 04:20:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4930,1,3822,'172.138.171.31','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','we are the children of societies that have eradicated many cultures. so your concern is understandable. but do you really think that is where we are headed again? i look around at the braintrust here and in so much of the rest of our own ever emerging culture and see a whole lot to feel good about, no matter what shortcomings there still may be. i dont see the death of culture as the result of the war we are in... quite the contrary. culture is not a static, stagnant museum piece. this war we find ourselves in is all the more likely to open the world to greater cultural exchange -- if we win. we are at war *against* those that would eradicate all cultures but their own. dont be so afraid of our success. ','2003-07-25 04:28:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4931,1,3821,'64.169.130.161','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','Trent and A.L. keep confusing strategy with grand strategy. Grand strategy has to be public. Strategy doesn\'t. Sometimes it is expedient to make strategy public and sometimes it isn\'t.\r\n\r\nGrand strategy is to strategy what strategy is to operations, and operations is to tactics. Grand strategy is always, always, national in scope and scale, and lasts for decades if not generations.\r\n\r\nStrategies are just roadmaps for grand strategy.\r\n\r\nTim\'s first paragraph was completely on point here:\r\n\r\n\"Pro-War Democrats/Liberals won\'t confront the anti-war Democrat/Liberal loons because to do so would split the party - as there is no possible compromise. So, the pro-war Democrats/Liberals attack Bush not to vent their frustration - but to fuzz over the differences with anti-war Democrats/Liberals and to co-opt enough support to be the party\'s nominee/sacrificial lamb.\"\r\n\r\nA.L. is trying to divert attention from the outright refusal of non-loony Democrats to confront their loons. He wants President Bush to do what he lacks the nerve to do himself. Whence my comment:\r\n\r\n\"Nothing a Republican president says can give Democrats a backbone. That they have to find for themselves.\"','2003-07-25 04:29:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4932,1,3822,'67.160.156.25','Michael J. Totten','mike.totten@netiq.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','I really believe the odds of us comitting genocide are vanishingly close to zero.\r\n\r\nUnless we get repeatedly nuked because some dumb-ass president won\'t take this problem seriously and we elect a political maniac to replace him.\r\n\r\nAnd I find that highly unlikely, too. But, yes, remotely possible.\r\n\r\nOtherwise, no. It just is not in our character.','2003-07-25 04:36:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4933,1,3822,'68.173.17.112','Joe Maller','joe@joemaller.com','http://www.joemaller.com','Well said Balagan. The people we\'re at war with are unequivocally committed to genocide against us. All we really want to do is help them build free societies and welcome them into the free-market world economy.','2003-07-25 04:38:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4934,1,3819,'63.196.189.35','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','Porphyrogenitus,\r\n\r\n\"Never interrupt a man who\'s committin\' suicide.\" Bush and Rove aren\'t interrupting.','2003-07-25 04:44:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4935,1,3822,'67.225.186.229','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Left to our own devices without the sort of thing we\'re experiencing, we\'ll win any war we fight. The problem is will we fight the wars we need?\r\n\r\nI also believe that left to our own devices, the kind of people who were strongly in favor of spending money and effort to develop increasingly accurate guided weapons so we wouldn\'t have to employ the sort of tactics that lead to such widespread devistation and death in the past, that are proud of the use of \"ACME Guided Anvils\" to strike targets that destroy what they\'re aimed at without blowing down the neighboring buildings (remember the big fuss over hitting that restraunt in Baghdad that Saddam & friends had been meeting at? And how, though the reporters and their rent-a-mob locals tried to claim widespread destruction, the images belied the claims; we could all see with our own eyes that the buildings to either side of the restraunt were still standing. A feat like that could not have been accomplished without the weapons programs that the \"bad guys\" supported being developed and the \"enlightend people\" were reluctant or opposed to), such a people is not likely to commit many genocides in my opinion.\r\n\r\nThe only thing that could change that is a loss in the Pan-Western Culture war, whereby the side that claims we\'re all no-good, uniquely nasty butchers, essentially destroys the civilization that did not create slavery but ended it, that does not plunder the societies it is victorious over but rather spends our own treasure to rebuild them and then seats them at councils - like NATO or the UN - where they can speak contemptuously of us when they want (which is often).\r\n\r\nLeft to our own devices not only will we win the war but will do so in a way that benefits the defeated as much as the victorious, something that is also unique in human history, not in a negative but in a positive sense. Even with all the problems a majority of Afghanis and Iraqis are, in polls, already saying they\'re happy that the regimes that ruled them are gone and are hopeful about the future - for the first time in those countries in a long time.\r\n\r\nThe problem is, we\'re not left to our own devices, as we\'ll see in the reaction some will give to this comment. . .','2003-07-25 04:45:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4936,1,3821,'66.56.17.36','Provolone Ranger','provolone@cheesy.com','','To say that \"Too date, Democrats have been a DISLOYAL OPPOSITION in this war\" is nonsense. It\'s a cheap smear to make Democrats look weak on national security.\r\n\r\nHere in Georgia, our two Democractic Senators voted to authorize force in Iraq. Of the presidential candidates in Congress, only Graham voted against the authorization. And Graham is generally respected as a sober voice on national security.\r\n\r\nIt would be more accurate to say \"Democrats have been a DIVIDED OPPOSITION in this war.\" As a divided opposition, the Dems have mush for an agenda.','2003-07-25 05:23:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4937,1,3821,'66.56.17.36','Provone Ranger','provolone@cheesy.com','','Amendment to previous post:\r\n\r\nCalling the Democrats the \"Disloyal Opposition\" isn\'t just a cheap smear at their national security cred, it\'s also a disgusting accusation of disloyalty. \r\n\r\nThat sort of Ann Coulter-type trash does not belong in civil discouse.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-25 05:26:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4938,1,3821,'66.56.17.36','Provone Ranger','provolone@cheesy.com','','Amendment to previous post:\r\n\r\nCalling the Democrats the \"Disloyal Opposition\" isn\'t just a cheap smear at their national security cred, it\'s also a disgusting accusation of disloyalty. \r\n\r\nThat sort of Ann Coulter-type trash does not belong in civil discouse.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-25 05:27:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4939,1,3821,'12.236.106.110','roublen vesseau','roublen@yahoo.com','http://hardheads.blogspot.com/','Trent, what will you do if the Democratic candidate wins the election? Will you act as the loyal opposition? Or since you *know* that the Democratic policy on the War on Terror is to kneel and surrender, and serving as you do a higher cause, will you adopt a \"by any means necessary\" approach to undermining a future Democratic administration?','2003-07-25 05:42:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4940,1,3822,'172.138.171.31','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','so since we are not left to our own devices we must accept the challenges ahead of us and win this culture war we are in. if there is any doubt which side we are on, it is the side of which seeks the growth of freedom. the only way we can win all of the battles we are engaged in is by being true to these values of life, freedom, and dignity that we are fighting for. as long as we are guided by these values the results of our fight will breed the same. there is always a concern of an enders game scenario where we are engaged in a genocidal war because we are blind to what we are doing. but it is telling isnt it when those of us who are most adamant in prosecuting this war are also the most self critical and concerned for its impact. \r\n\r\ni do not for one second advocate our becoming deaf dumb and blind to the impact of what we support... but must we be so insecure that we cannot recognize when we are right -- or when it is the europeans and so many other antiamericans in the world who have much more in common with what we fear out of ourselves than we do?','2003-07-25 05:47:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4941,1,3822,'172.138.171.31','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','imagine for one second what the world might be like if the anti-war crowd, the europeans, the arab and muslim regions, and those democrats who are pretending to be presidential candidates, were ever as self critical and inviting of honest debate as so many of us have been. ','2003-07-25 05:51:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4942,1,3821,'172.138.171.31','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','oh! oh! i know! ...if one of the dems win the election we can all move to canada!','2003-07-25 05:52:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4943,1,3821,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Trent,\r\n\r\nYour preemptive strike leaves me speechless: You have so narrowed the range of legitimate political debate to what suits the policies of the current occupant of the White House that I am quite literally left speechless. At the risk of little old me compromising national security, I have to take issue with that condescension.\r\n\r\nYou begin and close with the statement that the Democrats, pro-war centrists and liberals, are so complicit in the treason running rife in their party that the administration need not deign to involve them in the more serious issues of strategy reserved for the reliable grown-ups. That\'s a lot of grist for the mill of those who believe, with some justice apparently, that some in the administration (or at least on its side) are out to seize tyrannical powers and crush dissent using national security as a pretext. You actually advance two main themes: \r\n\r\n1. The issue whether we should involve half of the public and political class in debate over matters of some national importance on the grounds that they are unworthy and unreliable. \r\n\r\n2. The alleged failure of moderate and liberal democrats to confront the loons slightly to their left.\r\n\r\nThe underlying premises here are false. We may be in a war, but it is of a unique kind that raises unique issues that cry out for debate within reasonable bounds, and please, let\'s keep those bounds reasonable. It is as much a long-term (indeed, likely permanent in many respects) police action against an extremely fanatical criminal organization as it is a military action. What kind of \"war\" this is, how one combats that mafia, what actions, military or otherwise, are necessary or useful, what restrictions on civil liberties might be necessary, what are the costs and benefits, are still matters of legitimate debate and have not yet been trumped by supposed concerns about national security. Until Jane Fonda returns from her traineeship with the Taliban and publishes her travel log in Time Magazine, I am not willing to acknowledge George Bush\'s presumed monopoly on truth and consequences here. AL\'s desire for strategic clarity has suddenly become more compelling for me.\r\n\r\nOn confronting the idiots, this is still in large part a political question. There are different shades of 9/11 interpretation that have yet to be fully worked out and there are going to be extreme interpretations on both ends. Yours is but one. I believe that Joe Lieberman made a strong statement yesterday about the dangers of catering to the anti-war crowd. Howard Dean\'s criticism has also been directed largely at Bush\'s diplomacy, use of resources, and lack of forthright communication. He is not in a pre-9/11 world by any means and his criticisms are fair comment. \r\n\r\nI am no more willing to change the nature of democratic political institutions of free and open debate by excluding the views of half of the electorate than I am willing to exclude yours as bordering on the totalitarian.\r\n','2003-07-25 06:05:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4944,1,3821,'67.73.1.150','Sean','goodlookingui@earthlink.net','','Porphyrogenitus:\r\n\r\nI actually forgot about Hillary! and her \'08 run when I wrote my post, but I\'ll stand by my reccomendation. Hillary! has shown remarkably little interest in foreign policy during her tenure in the Senate (odd, given that New York bore such a huge cost in the War on Terrorism). If the general unseriousness towards foreign policy proves to be the Achilles Heel of the Democrats in 2004, a Democrat who argued against this drift will be well positioned to challenge Hillary! in \'08 -- in fact, such a candidate would be the ONLY candidate who could attract enough attention to mount such a challenge.','2003-07-25 06:13:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4945,1,3824,'68.86.120.76','Alex Knapp','heretic@hereticalideas.com','http://www.hereticalideas.com','Speaking as an agnostic who is also an amateur scholar of religious history, some of Paula Fredriksen\'s \"scholarship,\" at least that I\'ve read, isn\'t exactly worthy of the name. Hell, you can tell just from this: Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John, whose texts were composed in Greek between 70 C.E. and 100 C.E., differ significantly on matters of fact.
Those dates for the composition of the Gospels are in line with that of most historians--of the early 20th century. But seeing as how fragments of Mark have been discovered that date to circa 55-65 CE, and most modern scholars assume that Matthew, Mark, and Luke used a common source or source in composing the Gospels that dates even earlier, this point alone shows Fredriksen\'s ignorance of biblical scholarship. But hey, she\'s ignorant of Roman history, as well. \"The fact that Jesus was publicly executed by the method of crucifixion can only mean that Rome wanted him dead: Rome alone had the sovereign authority to crucify. Moreover, the point of a public execution, as opposed to a private murder, was to communicate a message. Crucifixion itself implies that Pilate was concerned about sedition. Jesus\'s death on the cross was Pilate\'s way of telling Jerusalem\'s Jews, who had gathered in the holy city for the paschal holiday, to desist from any thought of rebellion.\"
Sorry, but no. Pilate, in particular, was a rather gruesome son of a bitch who ordered executions all the time. And crucifixion as punishment was used, not just for rebels, but for other crimes such as murder and even THEFT. I could go on, but I think those illustrate the problems in relying on Fredriksen as a source. ','2003-07-25 06:41:17','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4946,1,3821,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Tom wrote:\r\n\r\n\"A.L. is trying to divert attention from the outright refusal of non-loony Democrats to confront their loons. He wants President Bush to do what he lacks the nerve to do himself.\" \r\n\r\nA.L. replies:\r\n\r\nBullshit.\r\n\r\nhttp://windsofchange.net/archives/003806.html\r\n\r\nhttp://windsofchange.net/archives/003781.html\r\n\r\nhttp://windsofchange.net/archives/002935.html\r\n\r\nhttp://windsofchange.net/archives/002989.html\r\n\r\nhttp://windsofchange.net/archives/003474.html\r\n\r\nhttp://windsofchange.net/archives/003150.html\r\n\r\n...and lots more over at Armed Liberal.\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n ','2003-07-25 06:57:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4947,1,3821,'12.246.71.234','Tim','tj@hotmail.com','','Gabriel,\r\n\r\nLiterally speechless? Your post suggests otherwise.\r\n\r\nAnyway, under the law, the president is required to perform certain duties relative to Congress and the federal government; in turn Congress has certain duties to perform as well; the state of war does not diminish these. \r\n\r\nThe president is under no legal obligation to inform or involve Congress beyond these duties; the political ramifications of those choices are certainly part of the president’s calculus. The obvious Congressional Democrat contempt for the president, their frantic search for political advantage, their inability to keep classified Administration briefings confidential and their tepid-at-best support for the war on terrorism makes them extremely poor partners. Would you do any different (and you’d be a fool or liar if you would)?\r\n\r\nUltimately the president will be held accountable for his actions, and he knows it. The reason he doesn’t deal with Democrats is the same reason he doesn’t deal with the French or the U.N. They are utterly unreliable. Or, to restate the president’s problem – the only thing reliable about the Democrats is their unreliability. Why should he involve them when: 1) they have a clearly stated and vested interest in his failure; 2) and only he, not they, will be held accountable for failure. It makes no damn sense. Now, whether anyone wishes to characterize the Congressional Democrat position as one of treason, or if that characterization is even within the bounds of reasoned discourse, I suppose that’s a debatable point.\r\n\r\nBut what is obvious is that there is no justification for your point that some “believe, with some justice apparently, that some in the administration (or at least on its side) are out to seize tyrannical powers and crush dissent using national security as a pretext.” That is utterly paranoiac, fear-mongering nonsense. George Bush, John Ashcroft and those who support the war on terror aren’t going to seize tyrannical powers and crush your right to dissent. And if you really think so, you probably need help.\r\n\r\nRegarding your assessment of Trent’s two themes, two points. First, notwithstanding your paranoia of tyrannical powers crushing dissent, it simply isn’t possible to not involve half of the public and political class in debate over matters of some national importance on the grounds that they are unworthy and unreliable. We have regular elections; the bar to the franchise is set extremely low; candidates of all stripes and persuasions are permitted to run; and dare I say the media is reliably anti-Bush. And, unless something happened since I last checked the news, we still have a Constitution with all of its protections for free speech and assembly. If Bush is wrong, or his approach unsupported, your side will win.\r\n\r\nSecond, it is pretty evident that the pro-defense side of the Democrat party is unwilling to confront the loons (slightly to their left? I suppose so – but that says more about how far to the left the moderates are than the loons are to the center, I think…). Lieberman, weakly, tries, when it’s safe (after an American success). Otherwise, you’ve the two-faced Kerry, the anti-macho Gephardt, and prince Edwards straddling both sides (or is it the “yes, but… position?) None support unilateral action. And then you’ve the clear anti’s, of which Dean may likely be the nominee. I don’t like your odds – either in this argument or in the election.\r\n\r\nFinally, your real problem is this: “…police action against an extremely fanatical criminal organization as it is a military action.” No. Wrong. They are not criminals. They aren’t even fanatical criminals. They are soldiers waging holy war against us. We don’t win through policing them up and trying them in court. We win by sending an infantry squad to knock down the doors to their homes at 4 a.m. and kill them before they can return fire. We win by sending cruise missiles one after the another into the homes and command centers of their leaders. We win by sending airborne units to secure their oil fields and mechanized infantry divisions and Marines to seize their capitals. We win when we fight their war with our war – not with police action. They aren’t criminals. They are at war with us. Which means we are at war with them. And you wonder why Democrats aren’t part of the discussion? It’s because they don’t even know what the problem is. \r\n','2003-07-25 06:59:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4948,1,3821,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Tom:\r\n\r\nA few more while I think about a reply to Tim\'s comment:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.armedliberal.com/archives/000424.html\r\n\r\nhttp://www.armedliberal.com/archives/000430.html\r\n\r\nhttp://www.armedliberal.com/archives/000363.html\r\n\r\nhttp://www.armedliberal.com/archives/000431.html\r\n\r\nhttp://www.armedliberal.com/archives/000490.html\r\n\r\nYup, shilling for the spineless Dems, that\'s me...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-25 07:21:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4949,1,3824,'216.175.83.91','clue','clue@bcke.com','','I\'m not even a tenth of a scholar, but wasn\'t he crucified along with two common criminals?','2003-07-25 07:24:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4950,1,3822,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','AL -\r\n\r\nThe question is ambigous. Hence, the differing responses to both interpretations of it.\r\n\r\nWe will not be committing genocide in a literal sense: Hell, we just carried out a major war in which we did everything possible to avoid killing innocent people and with a great deal of success on that score.\r\n\r\nCultures evolve, and there are certain elements within certain Islamic societies which I would happily see disappear.\r\n\r\nThe pro-Israel \"bias\" of the blogosphere is a healthy corrective to the blathering and moral equivalence in the media. (In Europe, it\'s not even equivalence, the Jews are the bad guys.)\r\n\r\nThe risk I perceive, and perhaps you are alluding to that in part, is the growth of an anti-Arab (and more generally anti-foreign) extremism that demonizes Arabs and Muslims as a whole under the dual pretexts of security concerns and merely another false \"root causes\" argument. (Little Green Footballs - a hugely overrated site run by and for bigots of another idiotarian brand - is a good example of Arab bashing masquerading as political honesty.)\r\n\r\nMuslim culture is not monolithic. The two sides I am mostly familiar with are the Gulf Arabs - camel riding tent dwellers now sporting Mercedes and living in luxury high rises built and maintained by European commercial \"interests\" - and the far more Westernized and enlightened Tunisian and Moroccan educated classes (who not uncoincidentally have little or no oil, but also benefited from a deeper more sustained colonialism). The latter give me some reassurance on the possibilities within Muslim societies. \r\n\r\nWhat I do not want to see die is that uniquely American tradition of inclusiveness. The multiculturalists have a point here: I think they represent, in the States at least, far more of an (extreme and somewhat deluded) form of tolerance in the Western liberal tradition than postmodern relativism. Whereas the bigots undermine the virtues of tolerance, the multis fail to see in their moral equivalence that the limit of tolerance is intolerance of tolerance.\r\n\r\nI would not want to see the uniquely American virtue of inclusiveness and assimilation diminished by paranoia about Muslim invaders undermining the \"American Way\" or the Rachel Corries fighting alonside the fascists.\r\n\r\nThe sane middle ground in the true American tradition is best exemplified by Rudy Giuliani, a truly enlightened man who calls a spade a spade and brooks no idiocy from either side.\r\n','2003-07-25 07:33:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4951,1,3821,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Tim,\r\n\r\nYou have a point of view, and it\'s merely that: a point of view. I\'ll debate it - hell I agree with a good part of it on substance - but I am not nearly ready to posit it as a first principle of legitimate discourse.\r\n\r\nMy point is simple: We live in a democracy. \"Police Action\", \"War\" , that\'s semantic: This is not a traditional war. Tony Blair made that point a couple of days ago and others have made it repeatedly. \r\n\r\nYou cannot close off public and political debate on the a priori notion that your political opponents are unworthy (if not yet fit to be jailed on national security grounds). My paranoia is tempered by the fact that the views Trent appears to be advancing (or at least the slope he would have us slide down) is not close to representing administration policy, Ashcroft\'s excesses notwithstanding.','2003-07-25 07:53:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4952,1,3822,'206.190.18.250','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','A.L.,\r\n\r\nI wouldn\'t be so worried. After all we still have a thriving if somewhat reduced (or is it greatly expanded?) Nazi culture in the world.\r\n\r\nWhat I miss thogh are the huge parades and speeches in German. \r\n\r\nAh, the good old days when real cultures were respected.\r\n\r\nAlthough I am somewhat in agreement with Goring re: his reaction to culture.\r\n\r\nAnd you hardly see the Aztec meat tenderizers used for their original purpose any more. Or their culture of open heart surgery.\r\n\r\nWhere is the Mongol culture of Ghengis Kahn? Lost to the world. \r\n\r\nI guess we can be grateful that the North Koreans are keeping alive a remnant of the Soviet culture in their beleaguered land. Wouldn\'t want to lose that.\r\n\r\nThink of all those South Sea islanders with a well developed culture of cannibalism. Their practice has been destroyed by well meaning but ignorant westerners. The west is no respecter of culture that is for sure.\r\n\r\nThe world would be a lot better off if America just plundered other lands instead of trying to change them. America is the world\'s economic and military hegemon, why do we need to be the cultural hegemon as well?','2003-07-25 08:10:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4953,1,3819,'206.190.18.250','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The Democrats have two major things working against them.\r\n\r\n1. They are clueless on foreign policy\r\n2. The are clueless on economics\r\n\r\nWhat they do have mostly right is civil liberties.\r\n\r\nBy hanging on to #1 and #2 and marginalizing their commitment to civil liberties they are in fact destroying themselves.\r\n\r\nNow it is good that pro-war liberals see the folly of the Ds foreign policy efforts, however, they have failed to see that socialism (theft) is not a sound basis for a productive economy. The world depends on the American engine for much of it\'s economic activity. The more we hobble America with social programs the harder it will be on the rest of the world. America\'s social programs (including corporate welfare) are in fact taking food out of the mouths of hungry children. \r\n\r\nThere was a time when progressives cared about the rest of the world even if their prescriptions were wrong. I see that care waning or at least being put to the services of policies that slow economic advancement. I know it sounds good to take care of the poor in America by government enforced theft, but what actually happens is that it slows progress for the world. Not very progressive in my book.\r\n\r\nI think we will in the end wind up with two major parties. The social conservatives and the libertarians. I predict the libertarians will win the day because of a superior program: sex, drugs, and lower taxes.','2003-07-25 08:38:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4954,1,3819,'206.190.18.250','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','A.L. \r\n\r\nOf course property is a social construct. To prove that all you have to do is go to a biker bar and try to steal a patron\'s scoot.\r\n\r\nYou must be prepared for a social deconstruction in the event.\r\n\r\n=================================================\r\n\r\nActually property is not a social construct. It is hard wired into the brain. deSoto says it is necessary for economic advancement. In fact he says defence of property and it\'s transferability is the cornerstone of any functioning modern economy.\r\n\r\nWe can get a pretty good idea of what is social construct and what is not from anthropology. Theft is universally outlawed in all legal codes. Murder as well. Those two are found in every culture and are not too hard to enforce because they are built in to human nature.\r\n\r\nOther things like the intoxicants allowed vary from place to place and time to time. Thus intoxicant regulation is a social construct.\r\n\r\nSo how does this all fit in with faith/morale? I only need faith where my experience or information is inadequate. The USSR is proof positive that outlawing property (even if only large accumulations of same) is not economically viable. So I don\'t need faith in property. Human behavior and experience teaches that property is critical to economic development and an ordered society. ie. Without police people will kill over stolen stuff. Without the ability to transfer property all you get is a poor subsistience economy.\r\n\r\nI do need faith in our military because I can\'t know their plans in advance. I do not need much faith though because I have seen the results. America wins wars on the cheap in terms of human costs. I\'d trust my sons to the current group of admirals and generals any time they wished to serve. This is high praise coming from a Vietnam era sailor who had no trust in the officers of that era\'s military.\r\n\r\n================================================\r\n\r\nBTW if property is a social construct I\'d be glad to relieve you of the social burden. Let me know when you are ready to prove yourself superior to mere social constructs. \r\n\r\nMy advice is that you consult your wife first. She may have a different view of the social construct.\r\n\r\n================================================\r\n\r\nRawls is an idiot. I can see why he is popular these days. All the old justifications for theft are wearing thin. His will too, in time.\r\n\r\nI used to be a follower of Marcuse so the attraction to stupid ideas is not a subject foreign to me. I have in the past victimized myself with such delusions.\r\n\r\nPeople in their 20s are very attracted to redisributionist policies. By the 40s this whole train of thought becomes folly for most. It is such a truism that it must have a foundation in nature.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-07-25 09:21:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4955,1,3819,'206.190.18.250','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','If taxation is not theft then try not paying.\r\n\r\nThe government will send armed men to divest you of your worldly goods. \r\n\r\nSounds like theft to me.\r\n\r\nOf course you can hold up the contract the person didn\'t sign but that was \"co-signed\" for him by 51% of the legislature as proof of the \"contracts\" validity.\r\n\r\nLet me remind you what Mao said on the subject: \"Political power comes from the barrel of a gun\". Now there was an honest thief and mass murderer. Come to think of it our own George Washington said something similar.\r\n\r\nIt is amazing to me how much people prefer to avoid the obvious, when it interferes with their cozy preconceptions and political programs.\r\n\r\nAs a constituent to Davy Crocket once admonished him re: a vote in Congress. \"It ain\'t your money\".\r\n\r\nWe used to be a people who understood the nature of government. So sad to see such a proud people fallen on hard times by forgetting their inheritance.\r\n\r\nCourse I understand the ambivalence about the current government. If I believed in theft and the government was at least verbaly opposed (though not in actual practice) I might be a bit uncomfortable as well. As far as I can tell there is nothing to worry about. You have a friend in Bush. He is a much bigger thief than Clinton.\r\n\r\n==================================================\r\n\r\nThe question of theft is central to trust in government. There are those who do not trust government theft. There are others who do not trust a government that is not into theft.\r\n\r\nOne side or the other in that disagreement will always be disappointed.\r\n','2003-07-25 10:00:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4956,1,3822,'66.129.125.155','Oceanguy','oceanguy_fl@yahoo.com','http://oceanguy.blogspot.com','It\'s not genocide to encourage another culture to modernize at least to the point that they can have peaceful relationships with neighbors and trading partners.\r\n\r\nAll cultures change over time as they adapt to modern realities, some deal with the change better than others. The Arab world is struggling to fit into a modern world that doesn\'t quite fit their culture.\r\n\r\nSome, we call extremists, are demanding a return to the ways of old. Others are living in western society, trying to assimilate and to exert influence to make changes in their host nations. Do you accuse the latter of genocide? \r\n\r\nA progressive culture and progressive people cannot preserve other cultures while, at the same time, extending a hand of cooperation for mutual benefit. Peaceful coexistence demands compromise. How can one be an advocate and believer in making the whole world a better place while keeping distinct cultures isolated?\r\n\r\nTo be progressive is, by definition, to be an advocate of change. We hope and work to make the change for the better of everyone. It is not genocide to work for change in Western culture any more than it is genocide to advocate change and modernity in Arab Islamic culture. \r\n\r\nMethinks you are being a bit heavy-handed by using such an inflammatory word to describe the problems of Arab world in modernizing. I have more hope for them than you I guess.','2003-07-25 13:08:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4957,1,3820,'199.50.29.40','George','ghjong@yahoo.com','','When handicapping the Democratic primaries, I think you\'re all missing the most important question:\r\n\r\nHow tall is he?','2003-07-25 13:54:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4958,1,3820,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Reading the posts here from the Disgruntled-Democrats-Grudgingly-For-Bush Club, I am convinced that the Democrats don\'t have a chance. The bad side of that is that progressive politics don\'t have a future (other than in a quite distant one). The good news is that I can go ahead and vote for Gephardt without jeopardizing my conscience and, incidentally, placing our national security at grave risk in the hands of the Disloyal Opposition.\r\n\r\nFrankly, I like Gephardt and am not shocked (merely \"shocked, shocked\") at the good, the bad and the ugly (one of my favorite films, btw). It\'s called politics. Bush does it all the time. If Gephardt is \"dissembling\", to use Porphy\'s term of choice, Bush does it all the time. It\'s called the lying about WMD theme that Steven den Beste so aptly proved for us yesterday in the Wall Street Journal. It\'s also called misrepresenting just about everything he has said about the wonderful effects his favor-the-rich policies will have for workin\' folk and the economy.\r\n\r\nI don\'t care whether Bush \"dissembled\" \"shaded the truth\" or spoke outright \"falsehoods\" (to borrow again from Porphy) about WMD precisely because that\'s precisely what politicians do for a mass audience (again, see Den Beste). Bush Père claimed that we were fighting Gulf War I to liberate Kuwait from naked aggression. Does anybody really believe that? Is it a better political basis for assembling a coalition than, say, securing world oil supplies?\r\n\r\nThe issue du jour - actually, the issue of our times - is national security and will remain that way for quite some time and the Dems are therefore stuck with a pretty bad hand against an incumbent wartime president for the election campaign. That means they have to attack Bush on that issue where they can, which will mean walking over a lot of hot coals, or at least yellow-caked uranium nuggets. Maybe they\'ll get irradiated, maybe they won\'t.\r\n\r\nAnyway, why should I give Bush a pass on WMD (I think it\'s irrelevant), give Bush the Elder a pass on \"liberating\" Kuwait (totally irrelevant), and then insist on purity from Gephardt and the other Dems? Give me a break. We pro-intervention Dems are taking out our frustrations on the wrong folk. We\'re over reacting.\r\n\r\nGephardt has strong national security credentials and I\'ll let him play the game to the end and see what he and the other Dems, including Dean, ultimately present. ','2003-07-25 13:57:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4959,1,3823,'194.213.203.154','Jeff Rubinoff','rubinoff@systinet.com','','He forgot 5. A reason for that particular country to matter to the \"west / USA\" in terms of economy, trade or serious geo-political implications. \r\n \r\nWhich in Iraq\'s case was oil, and in Afghanistan\'s or Kosovo\'s case was human rights / geo-political importance / terrorist Osama, and in South Korea\'s case was the political defense against \"dem reds under the bed\" and the potential domino in the far east, an expanding area of trade interest for the US. \r\n \r\nSorry, but it IS in the arguement - if only because otherwise we would be in Zimbabwe, who have supported anti-western trade policies, but aren\'t a big eough area of investment / competition to matter. \r\n','2003-07-25 14:11:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4960,1,3819,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','M. Simon-\r\n\r\nYou shouldn\'t see Rawls as an idiot. He introduced a useful concept that places a limit on both collectivism and libertarianism. Sort of like a Kantian resolution of Continental Collectivism and Anglosaxon \"Savage Capitalism\".\r\n\r\nIt\'s no coincidence that Rawls, undoubtedly one of the most influential political theorists of our times, is entirely unknown in France. This despite the fact that he took one of Rousseau\'s pet themes and found a practical moral rule for its implementation. The French still don\'t get it and are operating in complete anarchy.','2003-07-25 14:16:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4961,1,3819,'67.225.186.106','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','I\'m sure either Hayek and Hernando deSoto would not agree that taxation is theft; both emphasize the importance of the Rule of Law. Armies, police forces, agencies that keep the property records that deSoto asserts (IMO proves) are important, all that costs money\r\n\r\nIMO, A. L. is going too far on one end and M. Simon you\'re going too far in the opposite end. IMO, Rawls\' philosophy is flawed - for one thing, he tends to move from his first principle to things that do not necessarily follow; after all, following deSoto, strong, recognized property rights are what is the most beneficial to the least well off, and Hayek arrived at his position (free markets and limited government) precisely for this reason; he had been a Socialist and says that the concerns that made him a Socialist were the same that drove him to the positions outlined in The Constitution of Liberty; I recommend to A.L. and others this brief bio.\r\n\r\nIMO Rawls simply assumes that the position he takes naturally follows from a concern for what is best for the least well-off in society and that others simply don\'t care - but that\'s not true. It\'s a matter that what is debated is what is most beneficial to the least well off, especially over time, with plenty of us who have studied this coming to different conclusions than Rawlsians.\r\n\r\nHowever, that position does not reach the conclusion that \"taxation is theft\" - its position is rather that levels of taxation should be kept low and government limit itself to spheres where it is competent, do them well but not over-reach - the over-reaching of which is not beneficial economically anyhow, does not help the poor much if anything, and inevitably encroaches on freedom.\r\n\r\nThe idea that all taxation = theft, though, is more properly an anarchistic position than a Hayekian or Friedmanite position, much less the position deSoto (who is not as Libertarian as they) would take.\r\n\r\nAll that said, I recommend we table these matters for another time; we can discuss political economy and philosophy in another thread. I expect A. L. will be doing a Rawls post in a few days, anyhow. Lets wait till then to further debate this.','2003-07-25 14:21:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4962,1,3819,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Rawls the method, not necessarily the implementation. After all, Descartes started with his fairly uncontrovertial cogito principle and then went on to \"prove\" something ridiculous like angels dancing in his kitchen. He still had a method.','2003-07-25 14:30:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4963,1,3821,'12.151.18.194','Mitch H.','hagmaier@zedxinc.com','','This \"outstretched hand from the Bush camp to the pro-war Democrats\" business is somewhat disingenuous. It wasn\'t too long ago that Chambliss let Cleland have it with spiked boots on. Should Chambliss have let Cleland win because Cleland was right on foreign affairs? No, but that doesn\'t mean that pro-war Democrats can trust lions not to be lions in electoral terms.\r\n\r\nIt is disingenuous to cry \"support the Bush administration\", when we know that the Chamblisses will only knife the supporters in the back when the elections come.\r\n\r\nPro-War Democrats have an obligation to do what is right, but they have to maintain proper and clear distinctions between themselves and the administration. Elsewise the Chamblisses will gut them. Again. \r\n\r\nFrom the anti-war, activist point of view, pro-war moderation led directly to moderate defeats in the 2002 elections. These opportunists figure that anyone standing in the middle will be knifed by their neighbors to the right, and the safest place is with one\'s back to the wall on the left.\r\n\r\nNow, this makes for terrible foreign policy, and bad grand strategy. But until pro-war Democrats can get assurances that the Chamblisses can be restrained in their electoral outrages, they are deeply exposed.\r\n','2003-07-25 15:06:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4964,1,3821,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Yes, they are deeply exposed. They will remain so as long as a number of their colleagues are (as they have always been: Rangel, Conyers, McDermott, et. al.) \"the disloyal opposition\" who hate America. That isn\'t true for all liberals, but it\'s true for some... and things have reached a point that the American Right are losing their reluctance to engage on this issue.\r\n\r\nThe pro-war Dems will find themselves caught in the crossfire. Those are the wages of the position they have allowed themselves to be put in over the last 30+ years. What they do about it... is up to them, though Gephardt\'s recent speech (whose answer was \"make some sense and then on a critical point, surrender to the Left\") doesn\'t strike me as an especially promising approach.','2003-07-25 15:25:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4965,1,3819,'67.225.186.74','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Well, I have a watch, but if it keeps giving me the wrong time, maybe the watch doesn\'t work.\r\n\r\nMarx had a method, so did Lenin. Having a method doesn\'t mean it\'s the right method, though it may be very rationally thought out. One still has to check the methodology against the results it produces and some methodologies are flawed.','2003-07-25 15:40:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4966,1,3823,'67.225.186.74','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Well, no blog entry can be exhaustive (Gawd knows I\'ve tried); it\'s a really good post making excellent points overall.','2003-07-25 16:00:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4967,1,3821,'66.47.140.59','Sean','goodlookingui@earthlink.net','','Mitch:\r\n\r\nOut here in California, the Democrats spent several million dollars to unseat a Republican Congressman named Steve Kykkendal (sp?) in the 2000 election, despite the fact that he was the very model of a modern moderate Republican. Why? Because his district was in the LA County South Bay region and was too tempting a target for the Democrats to ignore. Not only that, the Democrats won the seat by pinning the purported extremism of the national Republican Party on Kykkendal\'s chest, even though most of the charges didn\'t apply to him personally. The Democrats did much the same thing to Connie Morello in the 2002 election, and for much the same reason.\r\n\r\nIt\'s called POLITICS. Republicans targeted Cleland because he was a Democrat in a staunch Republican state. Democrats do likewise (see also moderate former Senator Joe Roth). Complain about the tactics all you want, but ask yourself this: if Cleland had woke up on Labor day 2002 and decided that, from that point on, he was going to adopt Howard Dean\'s confrontational strategy, voted against the war resolution and denounced Bush as a right-wing extremist at every turn, do you honestly think he would have won? Or would he have lost by an even greater margain?\r\n\r\nYes, the lack of a clear message did hurt the Democrats in 2002. But if the Democrats only alternative is a message of confrontation for its own sake (during a time of war no less), they\'re better off without a message at all.','2003-07-25 16:40:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4968,1,3821,'12.246.71.234','Tim','tj@hotmail.com','','Gabriel,\r\n\r\nAt the risk of being pedantic, we actually live in a democratic republic in which our elected representatives make decisions, and we left to elect, ratify or reject those leaders on the basis of their performance or promise. And another election is right around the corner. \r\n\r\nTo that end there is no closing off of public and political debate – just read the ranting editorial and opinion pages of any newspapers; listen to the nearly-suicidal statements of the Democrats running for president; listen to the verbal flatulence emanating from Congress; read the big-oil, fascist conspiracy theories burning on the web. The peanut gallery of carpers and second-guessers is in a full-throated roar. \r\n\r\nYou may wish it otherwise, but the president and his administration are not required to partner with such obvious opponents of his efforts and his administration, regardless of how traditional or non-traditional this war may be. And he, and those associated with him, will be held accountable, first by the electorate and second by history. I’m pretty sure he understands that.\r\n\r\nAnd no one, least of all Ashcroft, is sending paddy wagons to round up dissenters. It just isn’t happening.\r\n\r\nFor Mitch H.,\r\n\r\nOf course Chambliss shouldn’t have let Cleland win; but Cleland wasn’t defenseless – he ran his own, well-funded campaign – and if he couldn’t refute Chambliss’s charges to the satisfaction of Georgia’s voters, well, that’s electoral politics in America. (And I’m sure you remember that his pro-union based opposition to the Homeland Security Department authorizing legislation is what left him vulnerable to Chambliss – it became a surrogate – as so many political issues do – for national security overall.) \r\n\r\nCandidates don’t “knife” other candidates in the back – they run races, and they do what they can to win. Few on the left complained when the NAACP ran ads essentially asserting Bush supported those who killed James Byrd in Texas because he failed to support “hate crimes” legislation. In this case Bush’s opposition to “hate crimes” legislation became a surrogate for his being an accomplice to racial murder, or at least racially insensitive. But unlike the Chambliss-Cleland race; it didn’t quite (but given Florida, it almost did) work out. \r\n\r\nSo who’s responsible for the pro-war Democrat problem? You could blame the voters. They make the ultimate call. If pro-war Democrats can’t support their position because Republicans “knife” them in elections, well, it’s because the voters didn’t believe the pro-war Democrat. Unfortunately, there is one problem with this “knifed by a Republican” analysis. \r\n\r\nDemocrats used to have people like Henry Jackson whose credentials on national security were impeccable and therefore impervious to partisan attack. Those Democrats simply don’t exist anymore. Anywhere. Not since the Vietnamese War they don\'t. Even Sam Nunn, an alleged “hawk,” voted against authorizing the first Gulf War.\r\n\r\nThe pro-war Democrat problem stems from the now solid anti-war Democrat base. The overwhelming anti-war majority of the Democrat party has left it with little or no credibility on national security issues. Pro-war Democrats are like “pro-life” Democrats: few in number and weak in influence. And when push comes to shove, they’ll pay homage to the anti-war majority just as Kucinich repudiated his pro-life position to advance his ambitions within the party.\r\n\r\nPro-war Democrats don’t need assurances that the Chamblisses will be restrained; they need assurances from other Democrats that the Deans, Byrds, Kucinichs and nutters who vote in Democrat primaries and populate Moveon.org and the Democratic Underground will be restrained. It just isn\'t safe for pro-war Democrats to walk around Democrat precints. \r\n\r\nFat chance it will happen. And good luck. I fear you\'re going to need it. \r\n','2003-07-25 16:52:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4969,1,3819,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Well, I don\'t believe there is such a thing as the \"right\" method. They are only tools for analysis and understanding or, as I said earlier, they may have useful concepts. Marx is a great example. His method has possibly been the most influential in the social sciences over the last 200 years, even if you disagree with how he applied it. Sort of like the saying: We are all Keynesians now. Anyway, for another day, another thread...','2003-07-25 16:55:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4970,1,3819,'207.40.151.167','Lurker','lurker@mailinator.com','','Whatever overarching strategy or plan that Bush has, he\'d better stop stretching the truth to justify it. Keep whatever secrets you must keep, but you better not start lying, or even look like you\'re, lying.\r\n\r\nIt should be obvious by now that a president can\'t govern effectively if many in the American public believe him to be a liar. Even if some believe it is more important to be more frank about certain sexual relations, than when rallying the public to a sustained, possibly unending, treacherous war against terror. \r\n\r\nI supported the invasion of Iraq, independent of any WMD threat. I suspect that most other Americans did too. Bush has jeopardized the support of the American people, strengthened political oppentents of an aggressive war, and damaged his reputation by repeating an irrelavent and unneccesary lie. If it was done in an attempt to bolster multilateralism, or to bring the UN on board, more the shame.\r\n\r\nI hope he doesn\'t do it again.\r\n','2003-07-25 17:26:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4971,1,3823,'64.171.3.135','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','Porphy,\r\n\r\nYes, you have and yes, it is.','2003-07-25 17:29:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4972,1,3801,'205.188.209.7','Joe Peden','jmonomer@aol.com','','[The following can be considered a rag, but it is where I am, though not as an \"utimate\" fact, since there are none of these, and I await the enlightenment of further thought. Good luck to us all.]\r\n There is no reason to be pessimistic. But pessimists have no reason. They are simply pessimists. The same goes for sadomasochists. The current crop of terrorists are sadomasochists, as they even admit. Israel and the Republicans [Bush & company] recognize this. Both also understand self-defense, as does Blair. Republicans have also recognized, at least in word, that Government is a false God, and that spending is a false path. Democrats will not even admit this.\r\n Republicans have seized the concepts of freedom and liberty to their side, from the vacuum, as a result of their wandering in the wilderness for 40 years. They have also flirted with the notion that \"good works\" are not possible except from a personal basis. Republicans are even beating the bush of \"compassion\" to capture it. Most of all they have coapted free-thought as theirs, which is why \"conservative\" media have flourished.\r\n Democratic \"theory\" is all off base because the Democratic Party has become the party of control for control\'s sake. Thus it sees all issues as tactics only, and has no ideas. Any purveryor of different thought, \"incorrect\" thought, is simply villified. Blacks become not \"real\" blacks. Women are likewise under the thumb of the male hegemonists, slavers, and batterers, and are not capable of free-thought. White males are \"angry\", if they disagree. The racist, sexist, and now anti-semitic tactic and nature of the Democratic Party [anti-Israel] is seen as valid because it is a tactic, although democrats seem to actually believe the rhetoric, concluding that \"you are evil because you do not make the correct noises\", the identical argument of right wing Christians. The democratic self has become: \"You have something I want, because I don\'t have it. I will take it.\" Marxist \"thought\" has infiltrated and come to rule, or be, the Democratic Party. That is, Marx had no thought, only a mechanism of control where \"the minority, the exploiters\" [Marx]would be \"smashed to atoms\" [Lenin], whoever they happened to be - those with a different thought. This includes everyone, and is thus sadomasochistic itself. \r\n Republicans have recognized this feature of Marxism in the Democratic Party, citing Communism as the necessary, and necessarily failing, outcome. Socialism is behind as a very close second, even according to Marx. \r\n Thus Republicans have recognized, in at least some way, the human aspiration, and current nature, for freedom, liberty, good works, compassion, and free-thought. They have recognized sadomasochists when they saw them, and the right of self-defense, and the reality that some things are, and must be, worth dying for. Democrats, or at least the Party, will not admit this. The Party wallows around in thinking up tactics which are designed only for control, and seems to think this is really what humans are - control mechanisms. Democrats are now lost in the wilderness, and have been for a long time, even if they \"win\" elections. [Now the Democratic Party has even sacrificed environmentalism to its contol needs in its attempt to demagogue the rediculous Kyoto Treaty, which itself is simply another political control mechanism, demonstrating the current attempt to make all science political science - all necessarily subjective, which it is not.]\r\n I sympathize with liberals who are still stuck to the Democratic Party. I jumped ship in 1988, but still had never voted for a Republican presidential candidate [and for no major party candidate since 1980] until 2000, when I voted against Gore because I could not take the chaos of the Democratic Party which I saw as threatening to anyone who believed that free-thought exists. Democrats who have free-thought as their nature have a dilemma, unsolveable without abandoning the Party, in my opinion.','2003-07-25 17:31:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4973,1,3824,'68.161.97.59','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','I have some comments here.','2003-07-25 17:33:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4974,1,3822,'66.169.106.199','Richard Molpus','rgmolpus@flash.net','','The Arab Islamic world has a vocal, powerful minority that wants to have a knock-down, drag-it-into-the-street fight with the West, and while the West has politely ignored the offers of Bare-Knuckle diplomacy for 50+ years, enough other \'pressing\" concerns have ended ( read, the USSR has decided to conceed to Capitolism ) to make this _minor_ conflict a major irritation.\r\n\r\nThe \"Die-Hard\" Islamicist that want a real war to defeat the Christian / Judaic West is less ( probably ) than 5% of the total Arab Islamic world, but they are a noisy, obnoxious bunch. this is a very serious, deeply spiritual mattre to them, they intend to obey the Koranic injunction to spread Islam everywhere, by fire and sword, to fulfill their duty to Allah.\r\n\r\nThat the 85% of the islamic world thinks that they are loony isn\'t important, because the 10% that _isn\'t sure_ has so much money.\r\n\r\nThe critical 5% had been kept under control during the Cold War because the powers that be in the world knew that the loonies would gleefully start a general war between the West and the USSR block to allow a ( hoped-for ) final Islamic victory. That Mecca, Medina, Jerusalem, Damascus, Rhiyad, Cairo, Bagdhad, Tehran, and most of the rest of the Middle East would be coated in glow-in-the-dark Glass didn\'t enter into the minds of the Loony 5%, but it was in the minds of the ruling Families / Juntas.\r\n\r\nNow the lid is off the pot, and the Loony 5% isn\'t under survival-minded thumbs. Our ( the Wests\' ) choice is on how we deal with that loony 5%.\r\n\r\nWe can:\r\n\r\nA) Ignore them, swatting the individual groups as they appear. ts was in force prior to 9/11/2001.\r\n\r\nB) Wipe everyone out - burn everywhere they could hide - do a slash-and-burn of all Islam.\r\n\r\nc) Convince the Islamic Powers-that-Be to keep the Loony 5% under control, or risk our wrath, and application of option \"B\". \r\n\r\nIt seems that option \'C\' has been chosen; the Invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq demonstrated to a disbelieveing / delusional Islamic world just _why_ cooperation is the best option. \r\n\r\nOur ( Western ) goal is to prevent any possibility of 9/11 happening again; to do this, the people ( in every nation ) who might imagine such acts of political theatre realise that the result will be against their best interests and goals; If OSB and AL_Q intended to bring about a General War against Islam that Islam would _win_, they forgot that everything done by man is InshaAllah, and, it seem, Allah didn\'t \"Insha\".\r\n','2003-07-25 18:14:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4975,1,3819,'67.225.186.74','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Lurker:\r\n\r\nIt\'s the opponents you\'re citing as gospel who are streaching the truth and lying on this.\r\n\r\nTherefore, your comments are specious as they rest on a false premise.','2003-07-25 18:33:21','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4976,1,3826,'172.138.171.31','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','looks like things are finally starting to pick up in a good way. now were are those pesky fully loaded nazi bombers... er.. i mean wmd.','2003-07-25 18:35:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4977,1,3826,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Tough one. Remember the RECENT revelations about Japan\'s nuclear program... in World War 2? This could take a while, but I\'m thinking the confirmed death of Saddam will be an important breakthrough.','2003-07-25 18:44:13','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4978,1,3823,'68.161.97.59','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Are we . . . neo-liberals?','2003-07-25 19:03:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4979,1,3824,'12.151.18.194','Mitch H.','hagmaier@zedxinc.com','','Alex,\r\n\r\nYou\'re confusing an identified \"lost text\", and a number of other identified precursors to the three Gospels with the Gospels themselves. The Gospels represent independent compilations of existing traditions, testimony, and the said lost text, which if I remember my Gospel scholarship properly, was a collection of \"sayings of Jesus\", usually called \"Q\". They appear throughout both Matthew and Luke, and intermittently in Mark. John, of course, is wildly different from the rest of the Gospels, and I\'d bet that this Gibson production is heavily reliant on John, given the rumbles I\'ve been hearing. But \"Q\" isn\'t an actual text - it\'s a reconstruction from the four Gospels, based on textual analysis. There\'s still some controversy about whether Mark used \"Q\" at all. BTW, I found an interesting site on “Q”. Don\'t take my word for it - I just took some courses in college on the subject.\r\n\r\nHer main point stands, which is that the Gospels are not internally congruent in a narrative sense. For one thing, they\'re aimed at different audiences. Mark is clearly aimed at Palistinian Jewry, while Luke is more aimed at the Jewish diaspora, and John at Gentiles. \r\n\r\nThe bit that really sets off my bullshit meter about this mess is this \"filmed in Latin and Aramaic\" thing, subtitled or not. That\'s preposterous, and it suggests a certain detachment from reality that is somewhat worrying, given the Gibson family\'s known history of reactionary religious politics.\r\n','2003-07-25 19:03:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4980,1,3814,'68.161.97.59','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','Are we . . . neo-liberals?','2003-07-25 19:04:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4981,1,3821,'212.234.231.51','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Tim,\r\n\r\nI think you\'ve missed my point. Your argument, like Trent\'s, is entirely circular: It assumes its conclusions about treasonous Democrats, a complicit anti-Bush media, a need for blind faith in the administration on national security grounds, and most disturbingly a father-knows-best monopoly on truth. That is what I mean by \"preemptive strike\", in the terms of the debate itself.\r\n\r\nCharacterizing the present conflict as \"war\" rather than a \"police action\" is not particularly helpful. The fact that it is likely to be a permanent state of conflict involving asymetrical warfare (that is not going away) and and having potentially profound institutional implications on civil liberties and international relations, to mention just two areas, makes it all the more essential that there be open and public debate involving both sides of the aisle on where we are going and how we intend to get there. Public debate always involves some risks, in particular the risk that your side will lose the argument. It\'s called democracy.\r\n\r\nInvoking the supposed treason of the opposition and the media is a lame, and dangerous, pretext.\r\n\r\nAs for your civic lesson in electoral democracy, your rebuttal to the Ashcroft-crushing-of-dissent argument (which I know by heart), and your presumption to know whose side I\'m on, yes you can take that elsewhere.\r\n','2003-07-25 19:04:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4982,1,3826,'165.66.72.212','Tim','tj@hotmail.com','','Yep. It sure looks like getting Saddam\'s boys was nothing but a vain exercise in excessive force, or, if you prefer, state sanctioned murder. \r\n\r\nAt this rate we\'ll lose the war on terror before Labor Day, for sure. ','2003-07-25 19:14:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4983,1,3819,'207.40.151.167','Lurker','lurker@mailinator.com','','Porphyrogenitus:\r\n\r\nSince GWB said what he said, I must assume that you mean that there is no factual basis for the supposition that the intelligence was stretched on this matter.\r\n\r\nI disagree, and I think the administration knows that it was a stretch. Just look at all the damage control and spin mongering. If there\'s any speciousness it\'s with the fashionable arguments that Bush never made it a major point since it was only \"16 words\" in the State of the Union address, or that it didn’t mean anything since there was many other reasons to go to war. Maybe so. Like I said, I supported the war; but, from where I sit, a lie is a lie is a lie. If the truth won’t due, it’s better to remain silent. This is just as clear as the meaning of “is”. Are you a relativist?\r\n\r\nAs you\'ll recall, the nuclear threat was hammered over and over by many members of the administration. The specific claims of a \"Nigerian\" connection were just the last in a chain of dubious nuclear threat claims.\r\n\r\nHowever, this is distracting from my main point. The President could have had the support that he needed without making ANY claims about nuclear weapons. In fact, he already had a resolution of congress granting the authorization!!! He has damaged his reputation foolishly, I believe in a misguided quest to get a favorable UN resolution.\r\n\r\nNow, if the war leads to Syria, Lebanon, Iran, or wherever, it will be that much harder to garner the necessary support; rightfully so, I\'m afraid. And if he does it again, we can probably forget about all these grand plans for rebuilding the Middle East.\r\n\r\nI hope he dosen\'t do it again.\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-07-25 19:25:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4984,1,3819,'67.225.186.74','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','He said what he said - not what manipulatively misleading critics are trying to delude people into thinking he said.\r\n\r\nThere was nothing misleading about saying what he did say, since British Intelligence still stands by the information Bush mentioned in the SotU.\r\n\r\nThe speciousness is with claiming he \"lied\" or \"misled\" anyone; even the man you mentioned in your initial post recognizes that.\r\n\r\nThe \"spin\" that\'s going on here is generated mainly by the critics who are being very disingenuous about this - and either you are, too, or you\'be been misled and are unwittingly following their line - so that they can score political points for their own reasons, not because they are pillars of rectitude and truth-telling.\r\n\r\nThey are the ones damaging reputations; your parroting of their line doesn\'t make it \"truth\"; the nuclear threat as a whole does not boil down to simply the intelligence on Iraqi efforts to aquire uranium in Africa. Indeed, you\'re following the misleading line, stretching the truth, in saying \"the administration\" made this point repeatedly, when it was administrations - including the aforementioned Clinton Administration, and including administrations of foreign countries (some of the intel the British are sourcing came from tips from France. Italy has similar reports) - \"multilateral\" - that made claims about Iraq\'s nuclear weapons program.\r\n\r\nImplying otherwise, that it was all concocted by the Bush Administration in a deliberate attempt to mislead the American people and the world, is the real lie here, and the truth is being stretched by the critics to fit that lie.','2003-07-25 19:48:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4985,1,3821,'165.66.72.212','Tim','tj@hotmail.com','','Gabriel,\r\n\r\nIt is not apparent you even read my posts. So, in order:\r\n\r\nI\'ve made no assumptions about \"treasonous\" Democrats - I\'ve just discussed (the clear majority) of those on the wrong side of the issue and they problem they pose to those on the right side. Does that make them treasonous? I suppose it depends upon what your definition of \"treason\" is.\r\n\r\nI\'ve made no arguments supporting \"a need for blind faith in the administration on national security grounds.\"\r\n\r\nHow you infer a \"father-knows-best monopoly on truth\" from my posts is not at all clear. However, if confidence in my position offends you; I meant no offense. \r\n\r\nResponding to points raised in debate, logically, cannot be a \"preemptive strike.\"\r\n\r\nCharacterizing the present conflict as \"war\" rather than a \"police action\" is they only way to understand our national security problem, whether you like or not. The inability of the majority of Democrats (this seem to cleary indicate which side you are on) to understand this fundamental truth is why they will always be upside-down on this issue.\r\n\r\nThe \"potentially profound institutional implications on civil liberties and international relations\" is, of course, a serious issue for all Americans. I\'ve never argued otherwise. While the parties may have different approaches, neither has a monopoly on the concern for civil liberties and international relations. One can support the war on terror, promote or defend civil liberties and seek to foster international relations. None of these are mutually exclusive. In fact, some of us argue they are mutually dependent. Our enemy cares not for civil liberties or international relations in any way we would recognize or support. \r\n\r\nYour point \"that there be open and public debate involving both sides of the aisle\" presumes there is no debate. There clearly is debate. The evidence of the debate is overwhelming The fact that your side (excuse my assumption, but it is evident whose side you are arguing) is ignored by the president; comes up short in the polls; and loses elections (all positive indicators of whose losing) does not mean the debate is not happening. The debate hasn\'t stopped since 8:45 a.m. September 11, 2001. Your side is losing. Or you just are not paying attention.\r\n\r\nI have never invoked \"the supposed treason of the opposition and the media.\" I have, however, pointed out they are, as you so eloquently put it, \"the opposition.\" Forgive me for stating the exceedingly obvious.\r\n\r\nRegarding my \"civic lesson in electoral democracy,\" you are welcome. I always try to help.\r\n\r\nAnd, if you know \"the Ashcroft-crushing-of-dissent argument\" \"by heart,\" then your concern is disingenuous. Or you are just confused. The roster of those whose rights of dissent have been crushed is...non existent. \r\n\r\nHowever, if you really wish to expose the \"crushing of dissent,\" you need not look any further than the Democratic party. The national debate over national security is far more robust and diverse than the same debate within the Party.\r\n\r\nWhich really is the entire problem, isn\'t it? \r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-07-25 20:03:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4986,1,3822,'208.197.9.62','Joe Schmoe','joe_t_schmoe@yahoo.com','','Gabriel-\r\n\r\nHave to disagree with you on the problem of bigotry.\r\n\r\nThere really has been no anti-Muslim violence here in the US, not realy. I\'m sure that you can find isolated examples of vandalism of Sikh-owned conveience stores in rural Alabama or something, but there really have been precious few hate crimes. \r\n\r\nOn the streets of every American city, you will find veiled women walking unmolested. Very few mosques have been vandalzied. Even airport security isn\'t that big of a deal. You might think that everyone with a Middle Eastern appearance gets singled out by airport personnel when flying, but this isn\'t true. On a local note, there are several Muslim familes on our blcok and no one ever bothers them. \r\n\r\nThere simply isn\'t a widespread bigotry problem. To be sure, one probably wouldn\'t want to be a Muslim in the rual South, but then again, one woudln\'t want to be any kind of racial or ethnic minority in the rural South.\r\n\r\nNow, if there were to be more catastrophic terrorist attacks, there might be a bigotry problem. People probably would call for the deportation of all Muslim visa holders, and even the permanent residents.\r\n\r\nBut it woudln\'t go anywhere. Once people began to realize that such a polciy would result in the deportation of their neighbor, a 63-year old Egyptian doctor who has lived and worked here for 30 years, the calls to \"expel \'em all!\" would die out. \r\n\r\nThis is one of the things that has made me very proud to be an American. In the wake of 9/11, there simply has been no outbreak of bigotry.\r\n\r\nThen again, if one or two of our cities did get nuked, well...I can see people calling for the Middle East to be turned into glass. \r\n\r\nBut, strange as it may sound, a call to destroy the entire Middle East would not be based on bigotry. We wouldn\'t be destorying them because they are racially or culturally inferior; we\'d do it becuase we would percieve them as a threat to our survival.\r\n\r\nThis would be small comfort to those killed in such an attack, obviously.','2003-07-25 20:25:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4987,1,3821,'208.187.141.124','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Tom H.\r\n\r\n>Sometimes it is expedient to make strategy \r\n>public and sometimes it isn\'t.\r\n\r\nWe have talked about this. My take is that it isn\'t useful to have a grand strategy public debate until after the the Democrats have a Presidential nominee.\r\n\r\nIf debates on real war grand strategy will drive away loonie Democratic voters from politics. That is when to have it.\r\n\r\n\r\nG.G.,\r\n\r\nIn politics, unlike criminal trials, guilt by association can be a capital criminal offense with the voting public.\r\n\r\nFor Pro-war Liberals to be creditable, they must be attacking Democratic loons on their own side _several times_ more often than Pres. George Bush. And when they attack Bush, it has to be an attack _from the right_. \r\n\r\nThe only legitimate attack (by which I mean legitimate with the general election voting public) they can make on Bush is one that has this at its heart:\r\n\r\n\"How do we win the war faster by killing terrorists and destroying terrorist supporting states.\"\r\n\r\nArguements for kissing up to the French and giving them oil contracts to get their troops into Iraq is Democratic loon pandering. The loons want to see Bush humiliated, whatever the policy it takes for that to happen.\r\n\r\nThe whole Saudi Wahhabi lobby connection to 9/11 is sitting out there like a political low hanging fruit and not one Democratic candidate is picking it. The whole Democratic field, including Lieberman, is flat out ignoring it.\r\n\r\nJAMES TARANTO puts it this way in Best of the Web:\r\n\r\n\"Meanwhile, where are the Democrats? The Times does quote Sen. Chuck Schumer of New York: \"I just don\'t understand the administration here. There seems to be a systematic strategy of coddling and cover-up when it comes to the Saudis.\"\r\n\r\nWell, maybe, or maybe the administration is just practicing diplomacy. Not everything in foreign affairs is a matter of black and white, and while the Saudi regime is not the solid ally Prince Bandar would like us to believe it is, nor is it an implacable enemy like the erstwhile Iraqi regime. The administration seems to be of the view that behind-the-scenes persuasion is a more promising way of inducing the Saudis to cooperate than public criticism. We\'re not entirely persuaded by this argument, but it is true that the Saudis cooperated with the liberation of Iraq.\r\n\r\nYou\'d think, though, that the Democratic presidential candidates would jump at the opportunity to bash the administration for being soft on the Saudis. Dick Gephardt does raise the issue occasionally, but then earlier this week he urged a softer foreign policy all the way around. Gephardt and his fellow Dems, meanwhile, have been making a very big deal of the claim that Saddam Hussein was less bad than the president once said he was. Go figure.\"\r\n\r\nGo figure indeed.\r\n\r\nWhen Democratic candidates for president cannot be distringuished from French and Maylasian politicians, It is over for the whole party.\r\n\r\nSee here:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.iht.com/articles/103905.html\r\n\r\nand here:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/07/23/MN278817.DTL\r\n\r\nPlease go right on arguing about how the Republicans and people like me, by arguing the way we do, are narrowing \"the legitimate grounds of debate.\" \r\n\r\nAll I and other Republicans have to do in order to win the political arguement in the next election is _nothing._ \r\n\r\nYour loons are stealing you blind when it comes to the \"bounds of legitimate political debate\" inside your own party.\r\n\r\nWhen you wear a \"I\'m a loser, please kick me\" sign, expect a sore butt.\r\n\r\n\r\n>A.L. replies:\r\n>\r\n>Bullshit.\r\n\r\nAnd right back atch.\r\n\r\nWhen was the last time you went out fund raising for Lieberman?\r\n\r\nWhen was the last time you had a letter to the editor or an op-ed in a Democratic publication confronting the loons over the war?\r\n\r\nWhen was the last time you went to a local Democratic party meeting or candidate meet and greet to challenge the loon\'s positions?\r\n\r\nWhen was the last time you showed up at a Dean or Kusinich Rally with a sign saying \"I want a Democratic President for America, not for France?\"\r\n\r\nOn issues of principle, you must be willing to split the party, if they really are principles you believe worth fighting for. \r\n\r\nFrom Glenn to Nunn to Gephardt, whenever a \"pro-war/National Security\" Democrat has met in intraparty combat with the loon faction, the so-called peaceniks have won in a walk because your faction candidate didn\'t even put up a fight.\r\n\r\nBush has to see more than oatmeal for backbone Pro-War Democratic leadership in order to reach out and build a bi-partisan pro-war coalition.\r\n\r\nHe hasn\'t seen any and he isn\'t going too.','2003-07-25 20:32:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4988,1,3814,'63.88.212.164','Michael J. Totten','michaeltotten001@yahoo.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','According the Kenneth Pollack (author of The Threatening Storm), yes, we are neo-liberals.\r\n\r\nMaybe we should work to claim that label in the blogosphere. It will distinguish us from the others.\r\n\r\nThe New Republic calls itself a neo-liberal magazine, and I agree with them nearly 100 percent of the time on almost everything, so I guess I\'m pretty firmly in their camp.','2003-07-25 20:53:01','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4989,1,3819,'207.40.151.167','Lurker','lurker@mailinator.com','','Porphyrogenitus:\r\n\r\nRisking further distraction from my point:\r\nYou\'re saying that I\'m a parrot for giving more weight to certain media, and maybe bloggers, than others. What are you? You are reading the same things that I do, you\'re just weighting things differently. That\'s ok. If this argument devolves to the point of citing facts, then no resolution is possible. Since neither one of us are in possession of these relevant facts. So, this will always boil down to whom you want to believe. So, peace. This is not relevant to what I want to say anyway.\r\n\r\nBack to my point again:\r\nCan you at least agree that this episode has hurt Bush\'s credibility? If not with his die-hard supporters, then with the folks that have granted him, so far, the benefit of the doubt?\r\n\r\nIf so, then your must also agree that it will be more difficult in the future to gather support for the next phase of the war. Still with me?\r\n\r\nNow, we can both agree that Bush already had ALL the support that he needed for the Iraq invasion before using the \"16 words\" that are causing all of this trouble, congressional resolution, strong support reflected in polls, various lurkers, etc. Right?\r\n\r\nBush has, setting aside the issue of stretching the truth, staked out a position on Iraqi nuclear arms and recent ambitions that he could not support, publicly at least, with intelligence or hard facts. If he could have, he would have by now. OK?\r\n\r\nIf you\'re still with me, then we\'ve agreed that Bush did a dumb thing. He asserted a statement with no facts to back it up. This has provided cause for those who have lent provisional support to consider withdrawing it (loss of faith) and an opening for his political opponents to exploit. AND he didn\'t have to do it... since he already had everything he needed to move forward. Are we still in agreement up to here?\r\n\r\nNow here\'s my main point:\r\nIf this was done in an attempt to get the UN on board, then Bush has damaged his reputation in the quagmire set up by the French, Germans, and Russians… for NO good reason. That\'s a partial victory for them. Isn\'t it?\r\n\r\nI hope he doesn\'t do it again. Every incident where the truth is stretched will lessen the faith placed in the president, and by extension, in the whole war effort. America is better served by straight shooting.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-25 21:02:16','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4990,1,3826,'192.189.236.20','Dean','sunzi36@yah00.com','','The Left commentary now seems to be: \r\n\r\nKilling (illegally) U&Q might be a good thing, but it doesn\'t change a thing, is no more than symbolic. \r\n\r\nOnly the IMMEDIATE and PROMPT end to attacks on US troops will have any meaning. And since even the death of Saddam won\'t stop that, it\'s really meaningless. \r\n\r\nBesides, wasn\'t the war over when Dubya said so on the deck of the USS Lincoln? \r\n\r\nIt\'d be funnier if these folks didn\'t actually seem to believe the line they spew....','2003-07-25 21:11:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4991,1,3822,'208.187.141.124','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Michael J. Totten,\r\n\r\n A.L. is right and you are wrong about the American people. Some Americans are as you think. Most are not. \r\n\r\n The Cherokee at the \"Trail of Tears\" knew differently, as did a number of other American indian tribes.\r\n\r\n The Japanese in WW2 knew differently as well. Had the A-bomb failed the American military was prepared to drop 50,000 tons a week of lethal chemical agents on Japanese urban areas. In so many words, we were going to gas them from the air like bugs.\r\n\r\n In the life time of many people still living, the American government planned, produced the military tools for, and was going to execute genocide as a contingency policy of war. What we can do once, we can do again, if the American people are motivated by a terrorist WMD attack.\r\n\r\n Tom Holsinger wrote a series of four columns over on strategypage.com on American national character and its relationship with this war, including the political possibility of \"Genocide as War Policy.\" \r\n\r\nThey were titled:\r\n\r\nThe Giants of Flight 93\r\nTwo American Traditions in the War On Terror \r\nThe Bush Administration and American Nationalism \r\nThe World\'s Coming Encounter With Andrew Jackson \r\n\r\nand are meant to be read sequentially.\r\n\r\nThis is the most powerful passage of the four columns, \"The Giants of Flight 93\":\r\n\r\n\"Students of American character should pay close attention to Flight 93. A random sample of American adults was subjected to the highest possible stress and organized themselves in a terribly brief period, without benefit of training or group tradition other than their inherent national consciousness, to foil a well planned and executed terrorist attack. Recordings show the passengers and cabin crew of Flight 93 - ordinary Americans all - exemplified the virtues Americans hold most dear. \r\n\r\nCertain death came for them by surprise but they did not panic and instead immediately organized, fought and robbed terror of its victory. They died but were not defeated. Ordinary Americans confronted by enemies behaved exactly like the citizen-soldiers eulogized in Victor Davis Hanson\'s Carnage and Culture. \r\n\r\nHerman Wouk called the heroic sacrifice of the USS Enterprise\'s Torpedo 8 squadron at the Battle of Midway \"... the soul of America in action.\" Flight 93 was the soul of America, and the American people know it. They spontaneously created a shrine at the crash site to express what is in their hearts and minds but not their mouths. They are waiting for a poet. Normally a President fills this role. \r\n\r\nBut Americans feel it now. They don\'t need a government or leader for that, and didn\'t to guide their actions on Flight 93, because they really are America. Go to the crash shrine and talk to people there. Something significant resonates through them which is different from, and possibly greater than, the shock of suffering a Pearl Harbor attack at home. \r\n\r\nPearl Harbor remains a useful analogy given Admiral Isokoru Yamamoto\'s statement on December 7, 1941 - \"I fear we have woken a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve.\" They were giants on Flight 93.\" \r\n','2003-07-25 21:14:31','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4992,1,3821,'12.151.18.194','Mitch H.','hagmaier@zedxinc.com','','What I was *trying* to say is that raising the war issue in the primaries (or in electoral terms at all) is a loser for pro-war Democrats. It alienates the antis and gives the other party the opportunity to throw spitballs. The WoT is as much of a loser for pro-war Democrats and the Democracy in general, I think, as slavery was for the Whigs. It shatters the party coalition, gives the rhetorical edge to the other party, and neglects the party issues.\r\n\r\nWhen the Whigs went to pieces, it wasn\'t the pro-Compromise conservatives that found their way to power in a Union party. It was the anti-slavery ultras who rose, phoenix-like, in the Republican Party, and everything eventually went to shit, four bloody years of it. A fight between the pros and antis in the Democratic party will, I fear, leave the pros spread to the four corners of the earth, with some kind of a transnational progressive fragment to rise again, under the name of \"Democratic Party\". I *don\'t* like the idea of a vast majority-Republican party and a permanent minority party. I fear the lack of balance that such systems produce. \r\n\r\nWhat\'s really infuriating is that Dean, neglecting his monumentally asinine foreign policy and anti-military notions, is otherwise quite attractive. Fiscal conservatism and social progressivism are two-thirds of the New Democratic platform. Sadly, a strong foreign policy is the third, and without that leg, the stool goes hurtling to the floor. Edwards is my current no-better-choice candidate. Leiberman is too conservative on social issues, Kerry\'s a flat-out jackass, Gephardt is lacking fiscally, and let\'s not get into the munchkins.\r\n','2003-07-25 21:16:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4993,1,3225,'65.107.104.70','dosa','dosa@aol.com','','The way of the warrior, can never be understood unless you have a clean heart, and true integratity. Never deceive yourself or others. Never fight unless there is no other alternative. One must always stand for a cause higher than the self. The samurai served their lords not them selfs. Ali served islam not himself. One can not be little matters that involve the warrior code.\r\n\r\nDosa','2003-07-25 21:24:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4994,1,3225,'65.107.104.70','dosa','dosa@aol.com','','A warroir can easily become a scholar, but a scholar will have to work very hard to understand the warrior, or become one.','2003-07-25 21:32:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4995,1,3823,'24.193.224.92','ForNow','twexclor@yahoo.com','http://4now.blogspot.com','“This is not, has never been, about yellowcake, WMD or even Saddam.”\r\n\r\nI think we need to keep clear that WMD in that context means WMD that 21st-Century Saddam had ready or not far from ready to rumble. WMD as a general issue — the nuking, irradiating, poisoning, or plaguing of an American city for instance — is the kind of thing it’s been about all along. A big picture, a big swamp to clean out. Saddam & regime, as one less variable to worry about, & the removal thereof ramifying in many a happy way. Lessening the size, complexity, & opacity of the swamp.','2003-07-25 21:50:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4996,1,3823,'24.193.224.92','ForNow','twexclor@yahoo.com','http://4now.blogspot.com','Having argued here a few days ago for the importance of the big-dissonant-picture view, where a one-size-fits-all approach to the pieces would be peculiarly out of place, I hope nobody misunderstands when I say that we must continue to do justice to the more particular justifications given for dealing with invading Iraq. The Administration’s credibility is important, & the Administration has obviously taken care all along to maintain that credibility. Difference of emphasis should not be allowed to be regarded as, say, diplomatic fictions. It was fine & well for Jim Baker to say of the first Gulf War “it’s about oil” as long as this was understood to mean oil in strategically significant combination with other issues — e.g., Saddam had shown a dangerous, curb-demanding ambitiousness by his Kuwait invasion & perparation to invade the rest of the Arabian peninsula, which in turn ramifies back to the question of what he’d have done with all that extra oil money, etc., etc.\r\n\r\nI don’t want to rehearse all the past justifications for the recent invasion, but just want to point out that once we clearly set course for a confrontation with Iraq, we were locked in, & this being locked in now ramified to the farthest reaches of the big picture. To back down would have signaled to other despotisms that they could proceed with WMD programs no matter what the US, much less the UN, said.\r\n\r\nGot that off my chest for now. Thanks.','2003-07-25 22:05:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4997,1,3823,'24.193.224.92','ForNow','twexclor@yahoo.com','http://4now.blogspot.com','P.S. “which in turn ramifies back to the question of what he’d have done with all that extra oil money, etc., etc.” AND what he’d have done wielding control of so much oil — to bring it closer to what Baker said. Sorry, after this, I’ll stop, really!\r\n','2003-07-25 22:10:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4998,1,3822,'138.133.17.10','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Gabriel -\r\n\r\nPlease understand that I don\'t mean genocide in some anthropology-grad-student \'buildng a McDonalds is cultural genocide\' way; I mean it in the old-fashioned \'kill them all and God will take His own\' way. \r\n\r\nThe combined forces of the Muslim world are no match for us in a real fight; two Trident submarines could reduce the population of the Muslim world by one-third in about twenty minutes, and most of the survivors would die in the next ninety days. For some reason, they think they are. For an even less explicable reason, we\'ve encouraged them to think that (Actually, I have an explanation, and it is based in the \'liberal\' mindset).\r\n\r\nOne of the major benefits coming from the last year\'s activities in the ME is that the misperception is being eliminated.\r\n\r\nThat has good and bad consequences; in the short and intermediate term, they are predominantly good.\r\n\r\nA.L.\r\n','2003-07-25 22:21:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(4999,1,3821,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','A.L.,\r\n\r\nI saw only one instance of you going directly after your party’s loons in the links you posted – this one: \r\nhttp://www.armedliberal.com/archives/000430.html\r\n\r\nThe pattern I did see is exemplified by your link here:\r\n\r\nhttp://windsofchange.net/archives/002989.html, at (my capitalization):\r\n\r\n“But you undermine my case when your official media broadcast hate and incitement, when your governments turn a blind eye to terrorists and their sponsors, and when you allow those who strike at the people of this nation - not with words, not with economic boycotts or peaceful action, but with violence - TO ACT IN YOUR NAME WITHOUT RAISING YOUR HANDS OR VOICES - you risk the wrath of the American people.”\r\n\r\nIt is the failure of patriotic Democratics to directly attack their parties’ loons on the War on Terror which lets the loons define the Democratic Party’s position in the war. I repeat that Tim is dead on in stating:\r\n\r\n\"Pro-War Democrats/Liberals won\'t confront the anti-war Democrat/Liberal loons because to do so would split the party - as there is no possible compromise. So, the pro-war Democrats/Liberals attack Bush not to vent their frustration - but to fuzz over the differences with anti-war Democrats/Liberals and to co-opt enough support to be the party\'s nominee/sacrificial lamb.\"\r\n\r\nYou guys are going after President Bush to divert attention from your refusal to confront Democratic crazies. This is why your party is in danger of extinction. Trent quoted the adage: “Evil can ultimately triumph only when good men do nothing.”\r\n\r\nMy father, Joe Rauh and other liberal Democratics drove the Communists and fellow travelers from the Democratic Party in the 1940’s. There’s no one like them in the party anymore.\r\n\r\nSure it’s harder now. Trent has pointed out that Democratic factions need leaders and yours just doesn’t have one. That is why I left – Senator John Glenn wouldn’t take on the nuclear freeze lefties in 1984, and even then I didn’t change my registration until Jean Kirkpatrick did. Trent is also right that the Democrat’s pattern of having a small number of really hefty contributors, almost all of whom are of the lefty monoculture, has much to do with this. And Tim correctly states:\r\n\r\n“Democrats used to have people like Henry Jackson whose credentials on national security were impeccable and therefore impervious to partisan attack. Those Democrats simply don’t exist anymore. Anywhere. Not since the Vietnamese War they don\'t. Even Sam Nunn, an alleged “hawk,” voted against authorizing the first Gulf War.\r\n\r\nThe pro-war Democrat problem stems from the now solid anti-war Democrat base. The overwhelming anti-war majority of the Democrat party has left it with little or no credibility on national security issues. Pro-war Democrats are like “pro-life” Democrats: few in number and weak in influence.”\r\n\r\nThis means patriotic Democrats like you must work harder. You have to organize, proslyetize, go to endless meetings, contribute more money than you can reasonably afford, develop iron butts and leather lungs to outlast and outshout the lefties, and all those other things taking more time and effort than you have to spare. It’s your party.\r\n\r\nMost importantly, you have to deem the lefties more your enemy than Republicans are. That’s the hardest part. You haven’t started yet.','2003-07-25 22:22:40','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5000,1,3225,'138.133.17.5','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','dosa-\r\n\r\nEveryone has to work hard to become a warrior. Some people just start earlier than others...\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-25 22:25:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5001,1,3826,'65.25.59.11','Court','cschuett@miniluv.com','http://www.miniluv.com','I am so glad I found a group of sane Dems. I was really getting worried for awhile. Now you just need to figure out how to take back the party. Good luck. ','2003-07-25 22:33:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5002,1,3821,'67.225.186.128','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Tom, in all sincerity and fairness, I\'ve read A.L.\'s writings, too, and I think that it\'s very clear that he opposes those elements staunchly. I think he\'s been spending more time and effort writing against the \"loons\" than you\'re giving him credit for, and in a very articulate and firm manner.\r\n\r\nHe\'s spent the last several weeks in particular lamenting what has happened to the Democratic Party and asserting that he wants it remade, finding fault with all their Presidential Candidates, castigating the very elements in the Party that you want him to.\r\n\r\nHe\'s done that consistently for, oh, I donno - how long has he been Blogging?','2003-07-25 22:46:59','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5003,1,3822,'80.13.121.2','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','AL -\r\n\r\nThat\'s not going to happen, if only for lack of a clear target. In passing, we would also be destroying our own civilization, but only in the \"grad student\" sense.\r\n\r\nSchmoe - \r\n\r\nI agree. But the little I\'ve seen of it is rather distasteful. I\'m not referring to violence anyway, but to creeping attitudes. Unless we believe we are a society that has been immunized against resurgence of racial hatred: Europe thought that as well and most continue to believe that resurgence in antisemitism is essentially minimal (and for some - even leftist Jews - a myth), despite the clear evidence to the contrary.\r\n\r\nI guess I fear long-term threats to cultural values the way AL fears the atomic ones.','2003-07-25 22:51:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5004,1,3821,'67.225.186.128','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Also, I must say that I am very keen on detecting people, Liberals or Democrats, who to me seem to hate Republicans or Conservatives more than our enemies, or see your average Republican as more of an enemy than these hard Left elements are.\r\n\r\nA.L. treats Republicans as political opponents, but not as enemies - IMO, if one reads his writings, its clear that he knows the difference. I think your characterization of his attitude is unfair.\r\n\r\nI do agree with you and have written to the effect that patriotic Democrats need to work harder, organize, reclaim their Party from the fringe. And Armed Liberal has concurred and has posted to that effect, and his plans to start working on just that.','2003-07-25 22:51:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5005,1,3822,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','I agree with Armed Liberal\'s concerns about genocide in the war on terror. I doubt that enemy attack might cause us to resort to it. IMO the greatest danger would be from the American people growing tired of an endless war, and our endurance in the Cold War makes that quite unlikely.\r\n\r\nNote, however, that cutting the Saudis off from their oil income (i.e., their oil provinces in the northeast becoming independent Shiite Arab client states of America) might have genocidal effects on the Sunni majority due to general economic/civic infrastructure collapse.','2003-07-25 22:57:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5006,1,3819,'67.225.186.128','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Lurker, as they say; everyone\'s entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts.\r\n\r\nThe people you\'re talking about are misrepresenting the facts.\r\n\r\nRegarding Intelligence: they released the part of the National Security Assessment that they could; Intelligence reports, raw intelligence, is not released to the public by *ANY* Administration. You - and those critics, are setting a standard that no Administration, including Clinton\'s, was expected to meet.\r\n\r\nNow, if you\'re pointing out that Bush had all the support he needed, including Congressional authorization, then you\'re facing the internal contradiction of the critics who are claiming that Bush misled them into supporting war by the statement in his SotU speech. I\'ve seen Kerrey and a bunch of others claiming that.\r\n\r\nHowever, this is just one example of where the critics are the O\'Briens (from Ninteen-Eighty Four) of this situation: they are revising reality to suit their needs. \"I was misled! I voted in October 2002 on the basis of what Bush said in his January 2003 State of the Union Speech!\"\r\n\r\nIf you don\'t have a Bovine Fecal Matter Detector able to pierce the falacy in that, then I\'m sure I won\'t be able to reach you.\r\n\r\nFinally, no one has really shown anything aproaching FACT to support a claim that Bush lied (as you falsely claimed in your first post) or even stretched the truth; either of those would involve deliberation on his part (as opposed to making an error; and, sorry if this is news to you, but intelligence is rarely perfect. Otherwise Clinton would not have bombed what turned out to be an asprin factory).\r\n\r\nThe fact that British Intelligence still stands by the intelligence that folks like you are claiming to be false evidences that. The mistake the Bush Administration \"admitted\" to is that this may not have been sufficiently validated to be included in a SotU speech - what we\'re talking about is a judgement call rather than deception. At least on Bush\'s part.\r\n\r\nWhat we\'re talking about on the part of the critics, however, are misrepresentations of fact, selective presentations of fact, stretching of truth, and deceptiveness for political gain - the very behavior they, and you, are claiming Bush to have committed.\r\n\r\nI notice that you haven\'t actually dealt with any of the factual matters around this - such as the concrete fact that British Intelligence remains convinced of the information they have, and therefore it is not plausible to assert that Bush lied or even stretched the truth on that matter; please explain to me how Bush lied about the information British Intelligence had learned, if British Intelligence maintains that yes, they have such information and yes, they stand by it?\r\n\r\nBy saying \"I think he shouldn\'t lie again\" you\'re trying to get people to accept an unsupported premise.','2003-07-25 23:04:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5007,1,3821,'80.13.121.2','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Tim -\r\n\r\nSince I believe, as you do, that the alleged crushing of dissent is non-existent hysteria by Hollywood types looking for more press coverage of their views, then we must be speaking at cross purposes. My point concerns accusations of disloyalty by Democrats and their alleged unworthiness for inclusion in policy debates. \r\n\r\nThe term \"war\" is reductionist, but you have explained your reasons for preferring it and frankly I don\'t care what you call it as long as we\'re talking about the same thing (of which I am not entirely sure).\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-07-25 23:23:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5008,1,3821,'208.187.40.142','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','Mitch H,\r\n\r\n Either pro-war liberals have the guts, determination and organizational skill to face down the anti-war loons in their own party or they don\'t.\r\n\r\n If they don\'t -- and they have not to date -- they can and will be ignored as irrelevant. \r\n\r\n As long as Pro-War Liberals view Republicans as their primary enemy rather than the Democratic loons, they will lose every time and deserve too.\r\n\r\n \r\n ','2003-07-25 23:40:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5009,1,3824,'216.254.196.54','Hamilcar','aa@aa.com','','There\'s no need for a hypothetical text called Q. The synoptic gospels were written in the order they appear in the Bible. Matthew was first (the Greek being a translation of an Aramaic original, as Eusebius says). Then Mark wrote his gospel based on Matthew (hence the similarities) and Peter\'s teachings. Then Luke wrote his gospel based on Matthew and Mark (hence the similarities) and his own \"investigative work\", such as interviewing Mary.','2003-07-25 23:41:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5010,1,3806,'68.63.70.99','cbk','cbk@comcast.net','','Hey David, \r\n\r\nThe elitism bothers me too. Immensely.\r\n\r\nFor lack of a better term, I call it nannystatism.\r\n\r\nThey don\'t trust the common man. They know what\'s better for us. If we don\'t agree with them it is because we are ignorant or misinformed. How like the EU? How unlike our founding fathers?\r\n\r\nI find it highly ironic that the party that wants to tout tolerance and moral relativism is so adamently opposed to any thing republican or conservative. So relativism is only relevent when it is in agreement with the elitists. How very democratic.\r\n\r\nI feel like I\'m watching the party on some self-destruct mode, like on startrek...\"self destruct sequence...1 year and counting. Self destruct sequence 11 months and counting.\"\r\n\r\nI hope that is not the case. I hope you are right about the regroup. I\'m afraid, like in other cases, it will get worse before it gets better.\r\n\r\nCBK\r\n\r\n','2003-07-25 23:42:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5011,1,3822,'63.145.249.167','Sam Barnes','generic@fake.com','','I have a definitional question for Armed Liberal, and to the group in general. Is \"to commit genocide\" analogous to \"to murder\" or \"to kill\"? And yes, I would leave the grad-student definition entirely out of this discussion.\r\n\r\nMy own thought is that the correct analogy is \"to murder,\" and I think the difference is philosophically crucial.','2003-07-26 00:10:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5012,1,3796,'66.89.11.62','_Jon','no@thanks.com','','I have a question.\r\nI read this line ...\r\n\r\n\"... maybe I\'ll have a shot at a bird-level combat command.\"\r\n\r\nDoes this mean that he is hoping to be promoted to a Colonel? Or that he is a Colonel and wants a combat command version of it?\r\n\r\nEither way, he\'s rather high up for a land-based military.','2003-07-26 00:37:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5013,1,3822,'67.115.172.30','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','Sam has a good point, especially pertaining to my prior post. We will do a de facto take over of the Saudi oil producing areas, if only because the Saud regime won\'t last, and that will have genocidal effects on the Sunni aka Wahabbi areas of the country because the culture there is best defined as \"sorry vicious loser\".\r\n\r\nAnd I\'m aware of the significant differences between flavors of Wahabbi, and how those are largely rooted in tribalism.\r\n\r\nThey can\'t be saved regardless of which flavor they are. They need modern skills to run the civic infrastructure necessary for such a relatively dense population to survive in such a hostile environment, and those skills can only be provided by a culture they don\'t have and couldn\'t develop fast enough even if they wanted to. They can\'t hire the necessary skills absent present oil income, i.e., the only way to save their population _in place_ from a catastrophic die-off would be subject them all to a brutal foreign military occupation.\r\n\r\nIMO most will become refugees to plague people elsewhere for generations. But millions will die in place in a 4-5 year period once they lose their oil income. Which will happen no matter what we do as regime collapse is inevitable, but we\'ll be blamed for it, especially as we\'ll occupy the oil producing areas thereafter and pump the oil thereafter for our own benefit. We just won\'t share the income with idiot Wahhabis trying to kill us.','2003-07-26 00:54:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5014,1,3826,'172.138.171.31','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','heh, stuff missing since world war two is why i mentioned the fully loaded nazi bombers... i made a funny... didnt you read insta today? :)\r\n\r\nhttp://www.instapundit.com/archives/010606.php','2003-07-26 01:09:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5015,1,3826,'68.55.40.202','JB','jbonline@comcast.net','','Yep. It sure looks like getting Saddam\'s boys was nothing but a vain exercise in excessive force, or, if you prefer, state sanctioned murder. \r\n\r\n----\r\n\r\nOh, does it? Let\'s see. Knock on the door, ask them to come out and surrender, take fire in response, grasp the plain facts they\'re not going to give up and call in sufficient backup to kill them.\r\n\r\nIt \"looks\" like it only if you present a Hollywood version of the events.','2003-07-26 01:12:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5016,1,3826,'68.55.40.202','JB','jbonline@comcast.net','','Umm, sorry. Slow day to grasp irony. Pls ignore.','2003-07-26 01:13:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5017,1,3814,'68.5.110.43','Kevin Drum','calpundit@cox.net','http://www.calpundit.com','I don\'t suppose this really matters, but from what I\'ve read about Saddam\'s boys, they were even worse than Dad. Hard to believe.\r\n\r\nI still wish there had been some way to get them alive, though. Hard to believe they couldn\'t have produced some good intel for us. Oh well.','2003-07-26 01:25:38','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5018,1,3821,'80.13.121.2','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Trent - \r\n\r\nAre we talking substance or tactics? On substance, I personally don\'t have a problem with any of the viable Democratic candidates, including Dean, and certainly haven\'t written them off as ideological fantasists. On tactics, why alienate the loons when you need them now and can talk over them a bit by criticizing Bush on style - and boy is he vulnerable on that score. That would seem to be the politically smart thing to do at this point. \r\n\r\nIt\'s all well for people to say that Dean is the perfect moderate, if only he were more pro-war, but then, if that were the case, he wouldn\'t be in the running. The trick for the Democrats is to hit Bush on specifics of implementation and poor diplomacy, while preserving enough credibility to tack back to the center, during the playoffs. It may not be pretty, but that\'s politics. It\'s also a tough line to walk, Gephardt maybe just tripped over it - but not fatally I think - and it may simply not be doable. That\'s also politics, but I\'m not sure the Democrats have much choice here. I do not see what they have to gain from ceding the security issue to Bush. That would seem foolish. And I don\'t think anyone\'s going to be squeezing much juice out of the low lying Saudi fruit you mention. \r\n\r\nIf the Democrats are truly indistinguishable from the French, then the battle is over anyway. I think that\'s a gross mischaracterization and what you really mean is that Bush is vulnerable on his inability to navigate his way in a contentious and complicated international arena. Maybe you\'re misoverestimating him?\r\n\r\nI\'m told that, in contrast to the cowardly Democrats, the Republicans are vigorously criticizing their own anti-war fringe. Where? And why would they have to: they are the incumbents with a single candidate.\r\n\r\nUltimately, come election time, people will have to make a judgment whether voting for George Bush is potentially a matter of life or death. If I so concluded, I would vote for Bush. But I\'m not even close to that point. \r\n\r\nIt may be irrelevant inasmuch as the Democrats don\'t have much of a chance anyway and pro-war moderate and liberal Democrats are defecting in droves. A lot of them show up on this site. I think they are wrongly taking out their frustration at the nutcases on the fringes of their party and would be better advised to wait and see what the state of play is come November 2004.\r\n','2003-07-26 01:36:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5019,1,3822,'138.133.17.7','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','Sam -\r\n\r\n\"Murder\" has a very specific moral and legal connotation to me. When I say \"commit genocide\" I mean to destroy a culture by killing enough of its members that it collapses.\r\n\r\nAs opposed to commiting genocide by convincing them to sell Amway or listen to Celine Dion.\r\n\r\nA.L.','2003-07-26 01:39:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5020,1,3821,'80.13.121.2','Gabriel Gonzalez','ggonzalezm@aol.com','','Let me add: Bush is a disaster as a President on every issue but national security. It really has to be a matter of life or death. Otherwise, there\'s no compelling reason to vote for him.','2003-07-26 01:40:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5021,1,3822,'65.19.65.45','FastNed','edwardVIT@hotmail.com','','This will be a moot point if the Iranian nutjobs, as they promise, drop their first A-bomb on Israel.\r\n\r\nSDB is very accurate when he states that our response to a WMD will be \"extremely ugly\". As it should be. The source must be identified and repaid in kind; to that extent, our response must be MAD. If you build it or create it, you stand surety for its usage. We need to be very blunt and public about this.\r\n\r\nThose that use such weapons against us are obviously dead. A great deal of wishful thinking is being expressed but the reality is that we have very little patience with those who kill our women and children. If Afghanistan and Iraq have not made that point, the next example may have to be slag where Saudi Arabia now stands. \r\n\r\nAfter that, triage on Islam may be required. If its a question of our loved ones or Islam, no contest.','2003-07-26 02:40:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5022,1,3824,'12.151.18.194','Mitch H.','hagmaier@zedxinc.com','','Er - are you joking, or do you honestly believe that? I mean, if it\'s part of your specific religious belief system, I won\'t argue with it - I used to work for a Baptist who firmly believed in the divine inspiration of the King James Bible and only the King James Bible, so whatever floats your boat.\r\n\r\nIf that\'s not a religiously mandated belief, I\'d recommend that you read some of that website I pointed to earlier. There are scholars that favor the Matthean priority, but they\'re in the minority, and I have to say that I find the arguments in favor of a Markian priority with \"Q\" quite persuasive. I mis-spoke from memory earlier, btw - Mark isn\'t held to derive from \"Q\" and it\'s Matthew that was specifically aimed at the Palistinian Jews.\r\n\r\nI found myself reading the gnostic \"Gospel of Thomas\" due to this thread earlier today. Interesting book - it\'s supposed to be a lot like \"Q\" might have been - a collection of Jesus\'s sayings, without any real narrative. Of course, it isn\'t \"Q\" - the text is distinct from the \"Q\" elements that appear in Matthew and Luke, and the experts say that \"Thomas\" is closer in theology to John than the synoptics - but it\'s still interesting. More \"the Kingdom of God is manifest\" than \"the Kingdom of God is promised to come\".','2003-07-26 03:17:26','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5023,1,3822,'172.138.171.31','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','so how about we act to prevent this kind of worst case scenario before it happens? ...oh wait... we already are!\r\n\r\ninstead of preoccupying ourselves with our fears of being cultural annihilators, why dont we step up what we are doing to fight and win this culture war? arent the worries about america nuking islam into glass just the same as all the worries of quagmire in afghanistan and iraq? why dont we just recognize it as one of many variables to deal with, but nonetheless continue to respond to the threats we face with the same kind of aggressive attack as has proved so succesful thus far...\r\n\r\nim the grandkid of holocaust survivors - only 3 members of that half of my family survived the holocaust - and of a hispanic-native mix on the other half of my family, so the whole cultural annihilation thing isnt exactly a foreign concept to me. i just dont see it happening here and now. the only way this kind of cultural genocide will happen is if we fail. so instead of sitting around worrying about that, how bout we bust our asses doing everything it takes to succeed? \r\n\r\nthere are no guarantees. thats just how life is. personally i like it that way. what we do here in this fight we are in matters. it is life or death. dont get so preoccupied with the death part and lets get back to fighting tooth and nail for life. death will take care of itself just fine without us. \r\n\r\nmay the cultures of death-worship fade and suffer the same violent fate as those hussein sob\'s. the good in islam, the good in culture, the good in human life will outlast them all. ','2003-07-26 03:22:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5024,1,3826,'66.108.206.228','af','afjob@aol.com','','Dean, \r\nYou must start reading the talking points more fastidiously. You missed: \"It would have been much better to see them in a court of law.\"','2003-07-26 03:32:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5025,1,3814,'67.225.186.58','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','\"Thing is, opinion surveys have been done of the Democratic Party that show an astonishing split between rank-and-file party members and activists, to the point where the Washington Post said that \'Democratic activists and rank-and-file might as well have come from different parties.\'\"\r\n\r\nNot that astonishing; I\'ve been referring to the activist-organizational-contributor base as opposed to, say, blue-collar and I-have-a-day-job-and-a-family Democrats. The problem is, except perhaps for the bloggosphere folks you identify, the latter are too passive; people who \"want my Party back\" but are, in too many (but not all) cases waiting for someone else to take it back for them.\r\n\r\nMeanwhile, the activists referenced in the WaPo article set the tone; they fill the audience at speeches so the lines they like get \"buzz\", spreading their \"memes\", and the ones they disaprove of get removed from the next speech or downplayed. \r\n\r\nContributions from them fill the coffers of Democratic candidates - and since Democrats are typically the people who percieve how money distorts politics, the cashy-wheel-gets-oiled, average Democrats tend to be (some exceptions exist) oblivious to or sanguine about the impact this has on *their* Party. At least less concerned about the fact that the funding of Candidates comes disproportionately from a rather - um - unrepresentative-of-the-country segment of the Party than one might otherwise expect from people who in other contexts worry about how money influences the political process.\r\n\r\nBut behind all that is the fact that it is the activists who, duh, being activists, are disproportionately the campaign organizers, vollenteers, show up at conferences and State Conventions and the like; the people that candidates need to do the ground work for them, who they have to appeal to in order to build a solid grass-roots campaign going.\r\n\r\nBeing activists, where the others are more passive, they also disproportionately form the membership of interest groups, NGOs, and the like which are the most effective lobbying groups that command the attentions of Democratic politicians.\r\n\r\nSome *ahem* of the people commenting in this thread (last name begins with \"D\" and ends in \"rum\") may dismiss all this as unimportant, not anything to be concerned about, and prefer to respond with a tu quoque than face this, but an clear-eyed observer would have to admit it\'s a problem.','2003-07-26 03:56:48','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5026,1,3820,'67.225.186.58','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','G.G.\r\n\r\n1) You assert that Den Beste \"proved\" something that I\'m sure he would disagree that he even argued, much less proved or attempted to prove.\r\n\r\n2) You\'re asserting facts not in evidence in claiming \"Bush lied\" about something like Iraq\'s WMD program; it would have to be a vast conspiracy indeed, spanning from the UN to the French Government and going back through 8 years of the Clinton Administration. All no doubt part of an insidious plot so that Bu$h could invade Iraq in \'03.\r\n\r\n3) A tu quoque isn\'t very apt here in any case; if you actually read my post you\'ll notice that the point it makes is that candidates running on how important \"truth telling\" and \"being straightforward with the American people\" is, but then spend the bulk of their words doing the opposite in a way that misrepresents things in order to undercut a war effort you claim to support - well, you are inclined to let him off the hook so I suppose there\'s no point in bothering to continue this point.\r\n\r\nTherefore, moving on:\r\n\r\n\"While I\'m sympathetic to the liberals about losing their party to the far-left nuballs, how do you think free-trade, small-government conservatives feel about losing our party to the left?\"\r\n\r\nI\'ve castigated the Bush Administration on these points, but we aren\'t really losing the Republican Party to the Left. The fact is, in most of the ways that are really relevant, the Bush Republican Party has simply become the Kennedy - not Ted, but John, and not the JFK of later myth but the JFK of reality - Party. Strong on defense, assertive in foreign policy, tax cutting, but for more government programs (just not as big as, say, LBJ), and a mixed record on trade in order to \"protect\" blue-collar industries (steel tarrifs, anyone?) and farmers (bloated farm bill, anyone?), increased regulation, survelance (Pop Quiz: who was AG when MLK\'s phone was tapped?), and the like.\r\n\r\nThat\'s life in the slaw lane. At least someone\'s moved to fill that part of the political spectrum now that the Ds have abandoned it. But it does mean that there needs to be a party promoting restraint in government spending and less regulation.\r\n\r\nThe problem with many moderate Dems is they fail to recognize their man when they see him, so ingrained is their partisanship.\r\n\r\n(Yes, I\'m being a bit cheeky here).','2003-07-26 04:16:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5027,1,3820,'67.225.186.58','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','G. G., one more thing:\r\n\r\nIf you\'re going to invoke Den Beste to support your assertions, you may want to at least read what he wrote on the subject, in particular in this post, which was the precursor of the post from which the WSJ article was derived.\r\n\r\nIn it he asserts the opposite of what you claim he \"proved\".\r\n\r\nI\'ll also recommend this post by Daniel Drenzer.','2003-07-26 04:24:39','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5028,1,3821,'67.30.233.5','Fredrik Nyman','fredriknyman@adelphia.net','','Gabriel:\r\n\r\nThe war is about life and death. When the national security folks talk about the likely loss of a US city, they\'re realistic, not crying wolf.\r\n\r\nBush and his administration understand this. They understand that we are at war, that we have been for quite some time, and what is at stake. \r\n\r\nThey have also shown considerable courage in their willingness to fight this war, and in taking on the root causes.\r\n\r\nI am not sure if any of the current D presidential candidates understand this. I doubt it; if they understood, there would be far fewer arrows in president Bush\'s back.\r\n\r\nIn the end, it doesn\'t matter. I don\'t trust any of the D presidential candidates with national security and with making hard decisions. \r\n\r\nLet\'s face it -- the current bunch is a lost cause. We saw their performance at the NAACP panderfest the other week, complete with a 3-way groveling contest. These people will not confront the loons in their party. Should any of them be elected, they\'ll make Jimmy Carter look like a forceful leader. Which would be funny, if it wasn\'t so scary.','2003-07-26 05:00:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5029,1,3821,'12.246.71.234','Tim','tj@hotmail.com','','Gabriel,\r\n\r\n\"A disaster on every issue but national security?\" And, of course it follows, the Democrats aren’t a disaster on anything.\r\n\r\nIt\'s a good thing you\'re not given to exaggerations and hyperbole; else I\'d be really concerned.\r\n','2003-07-26 05:02:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5030,1,3828,'172.138.171.31','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','ah but that no more shows that god exists than it shows that god doesnt. it is a question of what we mean by god... again. does there being more to existance than what we know of existance have any connection whatsoever to what we think of as god? \r\n\r\nthere are those who would say that god is the unknown and unknowable, or that god is existance itself -- just like those who would say that god is love. but these are redundant cop-outs by those unwilling to explore further. the unknown is the unknown. existance is existance. life is life. love is love. whatever each may be. \r\n\r\ni find much more value in the conception of god as an articifical mirror of the self, of life, and of existance -- of all things that we see and all that we dont -- than as anything in and of itself. to me, we stand to gain much more from stepping fully into that which seems so unknowable and.. well... living; than we do by maintaining a distant reflection of that life as if it were the source of life itself. \r\n\r\nin a more positive light, with full consideration of god as a self-conception, i can definately agree to the value of a davinci-like point at infinity that we use to bring our sense of the divine into our lives and our world. we should just remember that our dogs are not incapable of evolving their cognitive understanding of what they see flashing on that cave wall. just as we should recognize our own ability to understand that tv set we call god.','2003-07-26 06:16:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5031,1,3792,'207.170.32.14','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The truth may not set you free.','2003-07-26 07:04:00','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5032,1,3822,'4.61.195.188','Sam Barnes','generic@fake.com','','Armed Liberal,\r\n\r\nI realize that murder has specific connotations beyond killing--that was why I distinguished between them. My point was to ask whether those specific connotations would also apply to your definition of genocide, and it appears that your answer is no, if I understand you correctly.\r\n\r\n\"To kill,\" in this context, means to cause the death of another person. There is no inherent moral quality associated with killing in the abstract, since the word applies equally to killing in self-defense (most moral codes consider this defensible) and killing for personal gain (not morally defensible).\r\n\r\nI\'m not sure \"to commit genocide\" is similarly morally neutral in connotation. To me, the word also implies a certain amount of malicious intent, which would make it more like the concept of murder.\r\n\r\nI hope this is more clear. I think there are troubling implications in both forks of the analogy, but I think you do have to choose between Person:Group::Kill:Genocide and Person:Group::Murder:Genocide.','2003-07-26 07:16:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5033,1,3824,'24.28.2.101','Matthew','portablematthew@yahoo.com','http://fearfulsymmetry.blogspot.com/','Gibson should just let Abe Foxman see the film and determine whether or not it deserves the hatchet-job treatment it got from Fredriksen. In several news articles about Gibson\'s sneak preview showing, Jack Valenti said he didn\'t think the film was anti-Semitic, and Drudge supposedly felt the same way. And after this week\'s Ramirez cartoon flap, we sure as hell know that Drudge would be scandal mongering about the film if he thought he could spin it that way.','2003-07-26 07:57:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5034,1,3821,'68.63.70.99','cbk','cbk@comcast.net','','Thought some of you might find this speech entertaining.\r\n\r\nIt begins...\r\n\r\n\"Friday, July 25, 2003\r\n \r\n\r\n\r\nFear and Loathing in the Mother Ship\r\n\r\nGood afternoon, or, as John Kerry might say: “Bonjour!”\r\n \r\n I\'m sure you\'ve already heard a good many speakers today and will hear a bunch more after I\'m done.\r\n \r\n So you\'ll probably judge my speech more on its brevity than its persuasiveness.\r\n \r\n But that\'s okay, because as you may have heard, we Republicans from Texas aren\'t known for our el-o-qua-city.\r\n \r\n But we are known for being clear.\r\n \r\n So in the interests of clarity, I have a simple message to pass along: the national Democrat party seems to have lost its marbles.\"\r\n \r\n\r\nThe rest...\r\n\r\nhttp://www.majorityleader.gov/news.asp?FormMode=Detail&ID=127','2003-07-26 16:10:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5035,1,3819,'12.220.242.211','Lurker','lurker@mailinator.com','','Porphyrogenitus:\r\n\r\nI never said anyone misled anybody. Like I said, I supported the invasion. I certainly don\'t feel misled. No matter how you spin it, Bush stretched the truth on this issue. And you can\'t even concede my main point, that he didn\'t need to do it.\r\n\r\nWould the invasion have been aborted if he didn\'t make that Nigerian connection claim? Obviously not. Therefore, the claim was not needed to make his case to proceed.\r\n\r\nSo, Why was it included? Don\'t know; but in my mind if it was an attempt to get the UN on board, then it was a sad mistake. And it has damaged Bush\'s credibilty.\r\n\r\nAre you also denying that his credibiltiy has been damaged?\r\n\r\nBTW, You have a nice looking Blog. Don\'t know why didn\'t think to check it out before...','2003-07-26 16:46:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5036,1,3790,'67.225.186.30','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','The snowbeings are a riot.\r\n\r\nThe Ten I love the best are:\r\n\r\n1) The strip that ends with Calvin saying \"oh, you know how people are. They never recognize greatness until some authority confirms it.\"\r\n\r\n\r\n\"Oh, you know how people are.\" has become a all-purpose catch-phrase for me whenever someone tells me a story about how somebody did something typical but disapointing.\r\n\r\n2) The strip that ends with Calvin saying \"I\'m always right and everybody else is always wrong! What\'s to argue about??\"\r\n\r\nFor obvious reasons.\r\n\r\n3) The very first (or was it second?) strip, where Calvin \"catches\" Hobbes, and then asks his father \"what do you do with a tiger when you catch it?\" Dad answers \"you stuff it!\" and the final pannel shows Calvin & Hobbes in the kitchen, with cans of tuna all over the place and Hobbes finished a tuna sandwitch. Calvin offers him more and Hobbes says \"oh, no thanks. I couldn\'t eat another bite.\"\r\n\r\n4) The strip where mom serves up one of her concoctions and, as usual, Calvin won\'t eat it. His father whispers to him \"it\'s a plate of toxic waste and it\'ll turn you into a mutant if you eat it.\" Calvin gobbles it down and mutters happily \"I can feel it working already.\" while mom gives dad a disaprooving glare and tells him \"I wish you wouldn\'t do stuff like that.\"\r\n\r\n5) Hobbes steers and honks the horn!\r\n\r\n6) Hobbes: \"What fun is it being \'cool\' if you can\'t wear a sombrero?\"\r\n\r\n7) Calvin & Hobbes are going to sled off the roof of the house, Hobbes asks Calvin if he asked his mom for permission and Calvin says \"you don\'t have to ask questions you already know the answer to.\"\r\n\r\nA good life-lesson.\r\n\r\n8) The strip where Calvin hits the little girl - och, who\'s name slips my mind at the moment - in the back of the head with a snowball and she disclaims \"oh, my eyeball, my eyeball\" and claims that her eyeball popped out when he hit her, and enlists Calvin to help her look, then dumps him in a snowdrift.\r\n\r\nfor \"oh, my eyeball! my eyeball!\"\r\n\r\n9) Calvin losing a game of monopoly to Hobbes and running amok, which is the imagery I\'m invoking when I go on a \"Calvin-like rant\".\r\n\r\n10) They decide to time travel, and figure out that they can get into the future by going very fast based on the theory of relitivity. They sled really fast down the hill. Hobbes looks at his watch: 30 seconds have passed! They\'re in the future! Calvin looks around in contempt; \"nothing\'s changed. I\'m disapointed.\"\r\n\r\nI remember this one a *lot* now when reading some of the criticisms of progress in Afghanistan or Iraq. Not all criticisms, but quite a lot of them (\"what, there\'s no instant, just-ad-water democracy and life hasn\'t become perfect? Afghanistan isn\'t throughly paved with interstate highways yet?\")\r\n\r\n11) Hobbes: \"I don\'t know which is worse. . .that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low.\"\r\n\r\n12) Calvin sees something hidden under the covers of his bed. It must be a monster. He thumps it with a baseball bat. Hobbes emerges. Calvin appologizes and Hobbes replies \"oh, no problem good buddy. Let me see that bat.\"\r\n\r\n13) Calvin: \"There\'s nothing worse than an inscrutable omen\". Boy, is THAT true!\r\n\r\n14) Calvin: \"Know what I pray for? The strength to change what I can, the inability to accept what I can\'t, and the incapacity to tell the difference.\" - Should be a personal motto. Perhaps it\'s the hidden motto of all bloggers.\r\n\r\nOf course, that\'s more than ten, but Calvin wouldn\'t care so neither do I.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-26 17:08:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5037,1,3790,'12.209.132.54','Plunge','plunge@mac.com','http://chiefwiggles.blotspot.com','One strip I truly, truly miss.','2003-07-26 17:15:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5038,1,3819,'67.225.186.30','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','\"I never said anyone misled anybody.\"\r\n\r\nFalse; read your own posts.\r\n\r\n\"No matter how you spin it, Bush stretched the truth on this issue.tell a woman anything else before you tell her she\'s fat.\" Telling her she\'s gonna die is preferable to telling her that yes, that dress makes her look fat. Some things never change.\r\n\r\nThe on point answer: People won\'t always listen to what they need to hear. A little sugar coating can make the pill go down easier - and sometimes the opposite; given natural inertia.\r\n\r\nI\'m not sure I concur with him in what the fable implies, though; the fable implies the mysteries of expert knowledge entrusted to the cognocenti, which the people may not understand. The question of knowledge is dangerous and best intrusted to the professionals, who can manipulate us into doing what we need to for reasons that are kept hidden from us.\r\n\r\nNote that this objection is quite different from the prudential objection I raised in an earlier comment some time ago (I can\'t remember in which post-thread) and which Den Beste mentions in an update of this post; there are times when not everything we\'re planning can be told, nor how we have some information and exactly what it is, not because it needs to be hidden from us but because letting it out means that our enemies get the information too, and if we don\'t want to see our people harmed we need to understand the concept of \"information security\" applies.\r\n\r\nYes, it\'s true that sometimes people won\'t face what they need to face and it\'s tempting to get them to do what you think they need to do on false premises; hidden-hand ruling styles like this are pervasive in the EU and not absent here (and, contra what some may then conclude, hardly unique to any administration).','2003-07-26 18:08:58','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5042,1,3154,'212.32.163.9','<tor','torbalme@hotmail.com','','These kinds of priority websites via Google\r\nare blogwash. Blogosphere???? \r\n\r\nWho are you? \r\n\r\nEntertaining war via the unconstitutional\r\npatriot act. God bless America and the men\r\ngoing to war in Africa. We have all been \r\nhere before. VIVA ANC ´90 BROTHERS!!!!!!!!','2003-07-26 19:06:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5043,1,3824,'68.18.112.155','Joshua Pinkston','joshua_reid@hotmail.com','','Mitch and Alex both have good points. Alex has the most prescient as he points out the bias and schollarly ineptitude of the cited article by Fredriksen. I understand the close scrutiny that this movie could fall under, especially if there were suspicions of anti-semtism. But Fredriksen quickly abandons her theme to wander into ill-informed questioning and philosophizing about Jesus Christ and events surrounding his life and death. I followed the article just fine until I reached Fredriksen\'s speculation over why Jesus was crucified. Involving points so poorly constructed and irrelevant only defeats and discredits the point of the article. Citing the article to make a point could look foolish. Citing it, as Joe did, at least serves to make lively conversation and conjecture. That never hurts. ','2003-07-26 19:38:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5044,1,3821,'66.69.0.109','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','>The trick for the Democrats is to hit Bush on \r\n>specifics of implementation and poor diplomacy, \r\n>while preserving enough credibility to tack back \r\n>to the center, during the playoffs. \r\n\r\nAs long as your first priority is beating Bush rather than reclaiming your party from the loons. You are going to lose to them, and deserve too, every time.\r\n\r\nAnd Republican\'s can ignore Pro-War Democrats as irrelevant, because they are.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-26 20:23:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5045,1,3830,'80.228.37.230','PapaScott','shanson@shcon.com','http://www.papascott.de/','Even though my passport is blue, I\'ve lived in Hamburg long enough that my hero is Jan, not Lance. Jan was far exceeded anyone\'s expectations this year, and today it was amazing that even after the fall he lost only 12 seconds. They\'ll probably arrive tomorrow in Paris hand-in-hand.\r\n\r\nAt least I\'ll be able to see them both live in Hamburg in a couple of weeks at the Cyclassics (had to mention that just to make American cycling fans drool just a bit :-).','2003-07-26 21:05:33','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5091,1,3833,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Sarge,\r\n\r\nYes, subs have been doing that for a while, occasionally, at a low level. What they haven\'t been is a primary platform for large-scale capabilities in these areas. It\'s one thing to snoop around underwater, another to launch swarms of stealthy air and sea-based remote-control vehicles and serve as the hub for their transmissions back. It\'s one thing to pick up the occasional spy or SEAL team, quite another to insert a force of 5-8 full A-teams and serve as their primary source of precision strike support. Etc.\r\n\r\nSo no, it\'s not unprecedented. But it is a significant set of changes that adds a new set of Tier-1 roles. I\'ve modified the wording slightly to reflect this distinction.','2003-07-27 20:20:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5092,1,3832,'68.161.80.168','Matt Yglesias','matt@matthewyglesias.com','http://www.MatthewYglesias.com','Has it occured to anyone that maybe the reason Bush hasn\'t explicitly layed out this kind of grand strategy is that he doesn\'t intend to do any such thing? That maybe his international policy is exactly like his domestic policy -- grab-bag opportunism conducted with no regard whatsoever for the long term? That folks supporting Bush because they think he\'s going to spread secular democracy around the world are every bit as much suckers as the folks who voted for him in 2000 because they believed in free trade? ','2003-07-27 21:09:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5093,1,3832,'172.150.181.200','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','has it occured to any of us? sure it has.\r\n\r\nits also occuring to me right now that i may not actually be typing this and rather that its all just the dream of a snoozing dust mite hitching a ride on the back of a pink fuzzy giant with butterfly wings. \r\n\r\nthe reality however is that this administration has been amazingly and consistently forthright about \"grand strategy\". what more do you want?\r\n\r\ni didnt vote for him in 2000. i will be voting for him in 2004 (barring any sudden unforseen changes). i do not agree with everything this admin has done domestically, but there has never been a candidate in my life i could fully call my own. in order for any of this debate over substance to have value, all of us - including you - must be willing to accept when this admin does what we are asking of it. ','2003-07-27 21:28:56','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5094,1,3833,'172.150.181.200','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','thanx joe. \r\n\r\nany thoughts on viable solutions to the artillery problem? \r\n\r\nthe fate of seoul is the only piece of the crisis which im still stuck on in my thoughts about nk.\r\n\r\ni still like the \"not-quite-war\" war planning approach insta was blogging about recently, but it feels like its lacking a few somethings.','2003-07-27 21:32:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5095,1,3832,'216.66.108.130','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Matt:\r\n\r\nThis sounds like a refrain from the \"Bush is stupid\" melody. As long as the Left believes this and waits for the President to screw up, instead of advocating a serious alternative to his policies now, they will have a long, cold and dark wait in the hinterlands of American politics.\r\n\r\nIMO, the results so far speak of some sort of plan, as opposed to a \"foreign policy of the day\" lottery.\r\n\r\nIMO-Bush\'s \"Grand Strategy\" is a variation of Patton\'s famous line:\r\n\r\n(paraphrase from memory)\r\n\r\n\"The way to win a war is not to die for your country, but to make the other poor son-of-a-bitch die for HIS country\"\r\n\r\npreferably in his own country, and not in the US.','2003-07-27 21:37:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5047,1,3824,'68.161.118.107','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','You who are trying to smear Fredriksen\'s reputation as a scholar are forgetting that the script was reviewed and criticized by Fredriksen AND a committee of Catholic and Jewish scholars who are ALL New Testament scholars, AND some Catholic bishops also expressed dismay about it.\r\n\r\nAND Gibson\'s father has expressed contempt for Vatican II including its teachings about antisemitism, and Gibson has agreed with many of his father\'s positions (although not specifically the one about antisemitism).\r\n\r\nBy trying to make this be all about Fredriksen\'s scholarship (whose reputation you are not making a dent in BTW) you are ignoring the real issues that this article raises.','2003-07-26 22:42:45','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5048,1,3821,'66.69.0.109','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','G.G.\r\n\r\nA friend of mine said the following about Democrats recently that captures why I blow off pro-war Democrats:\r\n\r\n\"If the administration makes mistakes and refuses to acknowledge them, they lose. If they do acknowledge them and address them, they also lose.\r\n\r\nIf we kill the Hussein boys, we lose. If we let them run around alive, we also lose.\r\n\r\nAfter a while, the story here looks to me like: no matter what we do, we lose. Maybe we ought to just go home and admit the whole thing was a mistake.\r\n\r\nThis is a remarkably unhelpful attitude -- and not terribly constructive.\"\r\n\r\nI go beyond that. It is profoundly unserious in a deeply serious war. Why should I care what you or other pro-war Democratic moderates and liberals think if all of you repeatedly demonstrate that you lack the courage of your convictions? \r\n\r\nThere are many ways to confront the loons. You can face them in Democratic party functions. You can contribute money to pro-war candidates and PACs. You can make your own pro-war PACs if there aren\'t any. You can organize like minded Democrats. Hell, you can simply confront them publically.\r\n\r\nBut whatever you do, DO SOMETHING TO CONFRONT THEM!\r\n\r\nYou and others like you are not doing a blessed thing except criticizing Bush, in other words, placating your loons. You, and others like you, are in a co-dependent relationship with your anti-war loons. All of you Democratic pro-war liberals and moderates keep hoping that by sharing the loon\'s phobias about Bush, that you won\'t get beaten as badly.\r\n\r\nThere is nothing anyone outside that relationship can do until you pro-war Democrats decide to get out of it.\r\n','2003-07-26 23:54:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5049,1,3814,'68.5.110.43','Kevin Drum','calpundit@cox.net','http://www.calpundit.com','Porph: Yeah, I guess you\'re right. I mean, sure it\'s a problem, but it\'s always been a problem -- and for both parties. It\'s a truism for Dems that you run to the left in the primaries and then jog to the center for the general election. Same for Republicans in the opposite direction.\r\n\r\nIf this were some brand new phenomenon I\'d be more worried, but I think it\'s been true pretty much forever.','2003-07-27 00:52:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5050,1,3814,'68.5.110.43','Kevin Drum','calpundit@cox.net','http://www.calpundit.com','By the way, did I actually say anything in my previous post to trigger that comment? Just curious.','2003-07-27 00:54:50','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5051,1,3821,'172.147.207.79','linden','lindenen@aol.com','','\"All of you Democratic pro-war liberals and moderates keep hoping that by sharing the loon\'s phobias about Bush, that you won\'t get beaten as badly.\"\r\nIn my experience, unless you act like you share Bush!Phobia, they will simply stop listening to you. I cannot tell you how many times people I believed were intelligent and open, have now told me I am no longer a liberal for being pro-war. The LoonyLeft is purging its ranks. This is partly why I want them to lose. I believe only a resounding McGovern-style defeat will knock some sense into them.','2003-07-27 01:26:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5052,1,3821,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Odd. Trent, I seem to notice rather a few neo-liberals taking a rather different tack. I\'m always wary of statements that begin with \"all of...\" \r\n\r\nIt might also be helpful to acknowledge that perusal of right-wing publications reveals its own set of phobias concerning the current administration. Some are even similar, hence the recent close cooperation of many Republicans with the ACLU. After all, any politician will generate phobias, or to use a better term \"anti-stories.\" The real questions are whether anti-stories (normal) have morphed into paranoia (not normal), disloyalty to the nation as a whole (ditto), or a substitute for a positive platform (more normal, but unsustainable).\r\n\r\nI\'m not seeing that from pro-war liberals generally. If you were referring to the current Democratic Party candidates, your criticism would have some justice. But you explicitly made it broader, and in a serious debate that would cost you the argument right there. Simply deleting your second to last paragraph would have made for a much smarter argument, with its basic points left intact.\r\n\r\n---\r\n\"All of you Democratic pro-war liberals and moderates keep hoping that by sharing the loon\'s phobias about Bush, that you won\'t get beaten as badly.\"','2003-07-27 02:14:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5053,1,3790,'172.139.253.14','Dan Hartung','lakefxdan@aol.com','http://www.lakefx.nu/','For those with even a little bit of art history (Watterson clearly inclusive in this group), the It\'s Just Snow strip is supremely, deeply funny. One of my all-time favorites.','2003-07-27 03:56:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5054,1,3814,'67.225.186.222','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','I\'ve noticed that you can be relied upon to dismiss or minimize any example of excesses of the Left and its impact on your side of the spectrum with a shrug and a \"nothing to see here, move along\"; it\'s one of the things that distinguishes you from, say Armed Liberal.\r\n\r\nThis runs from things like this to your indifference over the fact that the anti-war movement was organized by Stalinists and, sorry tell you, but the crowds, rather than not being in line with that, gave their most vocal reaction to the lines of speakers that had little to do with sincere concern for peace and everything to do with dislike for American institutions and practices and its role in the world.\r\n\r\nAnd a tu quoque is non-responsive; one either has a concern over whether bad elements in a political movement have too much influence, or not; I for one have considerably more respect for Republicans who made Pat Buchannan feel like he and his no longer had a role in the party and for those who were critical of Trent Lott or Pat Robertson than those who respond with a \"they all do it\" and reserve their outrage for when something erupts on the other side.\r\n\r\nYes, the Parties have their fringes; I think a failure to recognize that the one which had no problem having as their House Whip for such a long period someone who was more sympathetic to dictators with a dislike for America than with us, that Party has a big problem.\r\n\r\nFor reasons I\'ve explained in posts on my site over the last couple weeks and in comments here during the same period, I think that Liberals - including yourself - who are not themselves part of this fringe should, for their own partisan good, not for my partisan good (though IMO for all our good as Americans), be less indifferent to this than they are.\r\n\r\nI mean, let me put it this way, setting asside the arguments I\'ve made elsewhere for the moment; for years and years and years, for as long as I can remember going back to the time I myself was a Democrat and as far as I know to the time before I was aware of politics (since this is something that has been around for as long as I have been into politics), Liberals and Democrats have wondered why people they think should vote more Democratic haven\'t and don\'t. They scratch their heads, wonder, come up with theories, try to fix it, but the problem remains and they\'re left scratching their heads each time.\r\n\r\nIMO, this is in no small part explained because of the divide here; you might not see the effects the Left have on things as much different than the hard Right or the Religious Right on the Republicans, but a lot of people look over and feel \"well, I\'m a blue-collar guy, I think the Dems are more with me on my job, but I care for the country that base of their party blames for the world\'s ills, and damn it, I think we\'ve done a good turn for everyone, I remember when I served and was stationed in Korea or Germany or Southeast Asia and the like, we weren\'t there to impose our will like these guys say, we were there to help others defend themselves. All these guys taking trips to Havana to tell Castro how great he is and how bad we are - not just the politicians and celebrities, but some of the people my daughter knows in college who signed up with a junket sponsored by a professor to go down there like it was some sort of holy pilgrimage [\"true fact\" as they say; when I was at Uni in the late \'80s, one year the two co-Presidents took a junket, using student funds, to go to North Korea and praise the Dear Leader]; all those courses taught by the Left, some of which are required \"ethnic studies courses\" that are one-sided accounts of how bad we are, all that stuff. . .and the Democratic politicians seem unconcerned if they aren\'t friendly with these guys who are doing this stuff. I may like their economic platform better, but I can\'t trust them to safeguard the country if they can\'t even tell who the good guys are and have to pander to these guys.\"\r\n\r\nSo you lose elections that, \"objectively\", you might win - if it wasn\'t for the fact that your party sux on these issues, which are considered more significant to more people than the latest Pat Roberson rant. I mean, there may be sympathy for Robert Tailor among a few Right-Wing moonbats like Robertson, but it\'s not nearly as widespread as the kindred feelings for Castro among all too many Democrats.\r\n\r\nI\'m frustrated with you because you don\'t see that. I\'m frustrated because that attitude is too pervasive than it should be. It lets these folks run amok in ways that, sorry, IMO their counterparts on the Right really don\'t.','2003-07-27 04:13:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5055,1,3814,'67.225.186.222','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Let me add this:\r\n\r\n1) A lot of people, IMO, have the opinion that could work for Democrats if they didn\'t cater to these fringe people who never saw an American defense program they liked and who\'s idea of \"peace\" was we disarm and give into the demands of the other side; they believe that sure, the Democrats may care more about their job, but life and limb come first and anyhow smoking craters in our cities are bad for job security.\r\n\r\nWhatever else one may say about the Right\'s fringe, they tend to be, if anything, even stronger on defense issues than the rest of the Democratic Party - unlike the \"progressives\".\r\n\r\nIf the Dems ever solved that, the Republicans could be in serious trouble.\r\n\r\n(Now, I don\'t agree with this assessment of who\'s strongest on the economy and jobs - not anymore. But I know the attitude very well, because my family background is Democratic; rural-Wisconsin Democratic. I also grew up in Madison, myself, so when I talk about the Left and how pervasive they are, I\'m not just doing it out of theory, but experience - and, frankly, experience that includes the fact that the worst excesses of my lifetime weren\'t in Madison).\r\n\r\n2) Someone like yourself, invoking a \"they all do it\" thesis, should see this not as an excuse for indifference, passivity, and ennui on the issue, but as an opportunity to seize - hey, if we work to reduce the influence of the fringe in our party, it\'ll give us a key advantage over them if they\'re still playing that game.\r\n\r\nBtw, I also assert that it goes well beyond electoral politics, \"tacking left in the primaries and right in the general election\" - it affects policies (once in office, those who tacked in a certain direction for the primaries tack back to their donor, activist, and organizational base).\r\n\r\nSo even if you don\'t share my assessment, expressed elsewhere (in posts and comments) about the potentially (IMO grave) damage that this poses not for the Democratic Party or the Republican Party but for the country, IMO you\'d ve advised to be less shoulder-shrugging about it simply because, in acting to counter this better, perhaps you could better attract those votes that Democrats think they should have been getting all these years and scratching their head in disbelief that they are not getting.\r\n\r\nJust something to ponder the next time you see ostensably moderate Democratic candidates earning their next Pander Bear by catering to elements that, frankly, aren\'t even Liberal, they\'re Leftist.','2003-07-27 04:26:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5056,1,3790,'68.21.245.193','Michael Ubaldi','fc@figureconcord.com','http://www.figureconcord.com/ublog/','Bill Watterson lives about an hour or so away from me, in a little township just northeast of the Cleveland area.\r\n\r\nI always knew there was something to Hobbes\' identification of their home state as near the \"E\" is \"States.\" What\'s knock-down incredible is that the forests behind Calvin\'s house are Northeast Ohio deciduous on the Lake Erie Plain, the same as around my house. Hell, I might have known the proverbial kid. ;-)\r\n\r\nLosing Bloom County was bad enough; when Calvin ended, I stopped reading the funnies. I\'ve got the books, though, so I\'ve been able to cope.','2003-07-27 04:34:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5057,1,3814,'216.66.108.130','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Porphyrogenitus:\r\n\r\nOne question to ask- In the distant past (1940-1960s?) wasn\'t it the other way around?? A politician would attract followers/campaign workers based on his policy--IOW, the politician drove the followers, rather than the followers driving the politician, as we see happening today.','2003-07-27 04:54:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5058,1,3821,'67.225.186.222','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','\"The LoonyLeft is purging its ranks.\"\r\n\r\nTo come to Trent\'s point a bit, I see that, too; it\'s as if the Buchananites were in control of who counted as Conservative - a power they definately wanted (which is why they\'re off sulking loudly in the corner) but weren\'t permitted to have. Instead they were the ones who got purged.\r\n\r\nSome are taking a different tack than Trent outlines, but for every article in TNR over the years that has complained about this to nil impact (unlike, say, the articles in NR that read out Buchanan and others), there are several in countless other organs that accept the fringe Left as spokesmen; if one looks at the sort of organizations that are cited as mainstream, even \"nonpartisan\" (Moveon.org\'s mask), \"public interests\" or the like, the line up of who\'s behind it all tends to be the elements of the sort Trent is pointing to - who\'s taken over the humanitarian/human rights groups long associated with Liberal politics? Civil Rights organizations once mainstream but now led by rather extreme and intemperate elements, dittoes.\r\n\r\nOne can go down the line. Some NeoLibs are standing up to this but not enough; the task is for more to. Trent is right that until they do, they\'re a non-factor in politics for all their good will. Which is why there needs to be a stronger effort to create a broad movement along those lines to counterbalance the disproportionate influence of the hard Left who, again, aren\'t really Liberals at all but are masquerading as Liberals so as to take over Liberal institutions for their own purposes - and with too much success, and with Liberals actually attacking organizations (such as, say, the National Association of Scholars) founded by true Liberals to combat the influence of the antiLiberal Left.\r\n\r\nA series of epic defeats may be what it ends up taking. Previous ones obviously weren\'t sufficient.\r\n\r\nBy the by, I thought that the neologism \"Neo-Liberal\" had gone out of vogue; interesting to see it back. IMO in part a sign that the \"move to the center\" that Clinton was supposed to represent failed to take.','2003-07-27 04:55:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5059,1,3814,'67.225.186.222','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Arguably it was; political parties were a lot stronger than they are - the essential changes came more in the \'70s when a number of changes, some to party rules, some to election rules (the growth of the primary process) that minimized the \"smoke filled room\" effect, and some to campaign finance laws - which moved power from parties who had held stronger influence over who became a candidate, to individual candidates who could win support of contributors and of organized interest groups (funding them through PACs).\r\n\r\nArguably this was one of the things that made the \'68 Democratic Convention so bitter and explosive, the cultural clash extended to contempt on the part of those \"outside\" the Convention for the Daly Machine (a \"Establishment\" institution of the era you\'re talking about) that ran things \"inside\".\r\n\r\nBy \'72 those who had been outside were in control, had re-written party rules to \"democratize\" things, thus shifting the balance as you describe.\r\n\r\nUltimately this shift ended up affecting both Parties, but the Republicans arguably somewhat less - after all, their Party rules weren\'t re-written by the forces that re-wrote the Democratic Party\'s rules. Still, though, both Parties lost much control over who ran under their name. This is not to say they lost all influence, but the balance shifted.\r\n\r\nIMO it hasn\'t really been good to \"democratize\" who the Party\'s candidates are; I\'m not sure any other country uses this system. The \"smoke-filled room\", for all its flaws, tended to weed out charismatic flakes and produce candidates more likely to appeal to a broad public than raise the excitement of narrow but motivated ideological groups - those forces tend to have disproportionate impact in primaries and especially caucuses, and certainly in the Money and Organization Game.\r\n\r\nSo the irony is that these \"democratic\" processes tend to produce candidates that aren\'t as appealing to a majority of the electorate (what matters in general elections) than the candidates that a cabal of cigar-smoking political hacks and their Machines tended to produce.\r\n\r\nOf course there are exceptions - one can point to flakes who ran in the past and solid people who run nowdays; this shift is a matter of degree, not kind, but that doesn\'t mean it lacks significance.','2003-07-27 05:10:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5060,1,3821,'67.225.186.222','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.com','(IIRC, the bylaws of the Democratic Party got re-written at the \'68 Convention as a concession to those protesting its make up - one of many concessions made by the Establishment in this era - which was why the forces that were \"outside\" in \'68 were firmly in control \"inside\" in \'72; I just wanted to clarify that before anyone corrected the omission).','2003-07-27 05:15:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5061,1,3814,'67.225.186.222','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Somehow I accidentally ended up posting the below to the wrong thread; I meant to have it here:\r\n\r\n(IIRC, the bylaws of the Democratic Party got re-written at the \'68 Convention as a concession to those protesting its make up - one of many concessions made by the Establishment in this era - which was why the forces that were \"outside\" in \'68 were firmly in control \"inside\" in \'72; I just wanted to clarify that before anyone corrected the omission).\r\n','2003-07-27 05:17:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5062,1,3824,'68.161.118.107','Yehudit','judith@yehudit.org','http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/','BTW here is the report on the script by the Catholic scholars.\r\n\r\nFrom the intro:\r\n\r\n\"We are Roman Catholic professors who were part of an ad hoc group of scholars recently called together by expert staff members of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and the Anti-Defamation League to review a version of the screenplay of the Mel Gibson film, The Passion. . . . We were asked to evaluate whether that version of the screenplay would present problems in terms of Catholic teaching about Jews and the death of Jesus. That is what we did and we were unanimous in our assessment. . . .\r\n\r\n. . . our report did not represent an official statement of the United States Catholic Conference of Bishops. . . . the four of us are members of the Advisory Committee for Catholic-Jewish Relations of the Secretariat for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs, and our report was assembled under the leadership of a staff person in that office. All of us, moreover, are active in Catholic professional organizations, such as the Catholic Theological Society of America and the Catholic Biblical Association, and serve on the boards of numerous Catholic institutes and institutions.\r\n\r\n. . . . Contrary to a recent media report, we have not apologized to Icon or anyone else for evaluating the script. Neither have we \"withdrawn\" it. We stand by it.\r\n\r\n. . . Our evaluation was founded upon magisterial teaching documents of the Catholic Church, which were extensively quoted in a four page appendix in our eighteen-page confidential evaluation. Suggestions that our criteria for evaluating the screenplay were not authoritative Catholic teaching compromise the magisterium\'s absolute rejection of the long-lived \"Christ-killers\" libel against Jews, a rejection enshrined in the Second Vatican Council declaration Nostra Aetate and subsequent Vatican and episcopal conference documents.\"','2003-07-27 07:08:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5063,1,3832,'67.160.156.25','Michael J. Totten','mike.totten@netiq.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','I concur.\r\n\r\nI like Kevin Drum, even though sometimes find him unserious. I do agree with him now, however, and with you as well.\r\n\r\nAnd with James Woolsey most of all. He says it so well, and is exactly right.\r\n\r\n(I agree with Den Beste on a general level, though, meaning that some of our operational strategy really must be kept quiet. The general strategy should be public, though, now that we have a foothold in Iraq.)','2003-07-27 07:57:35','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5064,1,3832,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Ditto. On so many levels, sharing the grand strategy isn\'t a burden - it\'s an opportunity. \r\n\r\nTrent thinks that doing so in the face of a disloyal opposition is a bad idea. On the contrary, I think that if one believes in a disloyal opposition, they should be even more eager to take this opportunity now that the Iraqi Rubicon has been crossed. If done in a serious, intensive, sustained fashion, I think it could have the same effect as the Humvees with loudspeakers that accompanied the M-1 tanks in Iraq. You know, the ones broadcasting insults to the fedayeen\'s manhood so they\'d come roaring out in their pickup trucks to challenge the tanks. Bring on Kooknich and the rest of the idiotarians!\r\n\r\nI\'ll add one item, though: Porphy has a very good point when he notes that the strategy _is_ being shared. A lot of speeches are being made, and documents published, they have real substance to them. For whatever reason, serious discussion is not happening via the media. George Bush isn\'t entirely to blame here... but he\'s the flag bearer, whcih means the Republicans need to find a way to get that message out in the teeth of an often-hostile print/TV media. It\'s an important aspect of the long-term war.\r\n\r\nNo one said that being Commander-in-Chief was easy.','2003-07-27 08:12:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5065,1,3833,'24.28.2.101','Matthew','portablematthew@yahoo.com','http://fearfulsymmetry.blogspot.com/','Nice links, Joe\r\n\r\nThe US has tried to maintain its advantage in submarines since the end of the Cold War despite the draw-down in production of big hunter-killers like the Seawolf. And as silly as this sounds, controlling submarine proliferation may be as big a concern for the US in the future as controlling the proliferation of WMDs, especially as states come to see the submarine as a viable defense against our aircraft carriers.','2003-07-27 08:45:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5066,1,3792,'24.71.223.143','Devon Hill','dsbhill@shaw.ca','','The problem with trying to promote a \'peaceful Islam\' is that Sufism is considered by Orthodox Islam as a Rank heresy and rightly so!!\r\nIt is akin to saying that the NOI is legitamate Islam or Mormonism is Christian etc etc!!\r\n\r\nSufism basically allegorizes all the ugly aspects of Muhammed\'s teaching and in reality probably owes as much of its teachings to Hindiusm and not Islam!!\r\n\r\nAgain it must be stated over and over again......Islam proper as taught literaly by Muhammed is unreformable and it is rotten to its very core!! We can try and whitewash the vileness of Islam all we want but as long as the Quran and Sahih Hadiths are unedited, Islam is a dangerous ideology not only to all non muslims but to muslims proper!\r\n\r\nThanks\r\n\r\nDevon Hill\r\n\r\nProud Darul Harbian','2003-07-27 09:46:09','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5067,1,3832,'68.85.34.142','someone','no@one.no','','It\'s an open secret. Just because Bush can\'t lay it out publicly doesn\'t mean it\'s not known and understood. And I mean middle America, not the blogosphere. People aren\'t stupid.\r\n\r\nLefties -- often even the sensible ones -- don\'t see this, of course, because they swim in a sea of like-feeling folks who find conservative, pro-American, or \"Jacksonian\" positions alien and requiring extensive explanation simply to register. That folks might reach such positions -without- such explanation and soul-searching... Unthinkable! It\'s a form of tone-deafness.\r\n\r\nAnyway we don\'t -need- public attention to this stuff until there\'s another crisis, or election. High visibility like the pre-Iraq debates means support here but also resentment abroad, as administration officials have pointed out... Lefty media and politicians look to be getting away with undermining BS now while the nation dozes, but things will look mighty different in the campaign season, when it counts. That\'s when goals and grand strategy are tested for real.\r\n\r\n(Incidentally one might note that the Dems are going on -their- offensives in no small part because it\'s their campaign season. And if any Dems don\'t like where it\'s taking the party, now\'s the time to speak up -as a Democrat-. It\'s your time now -- Bush\'s comes later.)\r\n\r\nHasn\'t Bush well & repeatedly demonstrated that sometimes saying nothing for a while is the best strategy? Indeed, how -did- he get that congressional Iraq vote anyway..........','2003-07-27 10:00:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5068,1,3833,'65.139.32.66','Stryker','wrenchmonkey@sgtstryker.com','','\"Their stealthiness and ability to work undetected in coastal areas has moved their role beyond just anti-shipping and ballistic missile launch. Covert land attack, intelligence gathering, and special operations are being added to their repetoire\"\r\n\r\nAdded? They\'ve been doing all that since at least the 60\'s. ','2003-07-27 12:03:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5069,1,3832,'172.150.181.200','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','im not sure what his opinion would be about this, but vdh is one person that comes to mind when i think about my thoughts on this discussion. he has written quite a bit about the value of being unpredictable as well as about an informed public. (id include links but will have to go looking for them at some later point).\r\n\r\npersonally i would split the difference between the two sides here... i understand and agree with the sentiment expressed by a.l. and others, but recognize that its contextual application isnt always that simple. sometimes the best way to be honest is to be indirect. i do not agree with what sdb and trent are specifically saying, but they are absolutely right in their underlying point. a little slight of hand can go a long way. \r\n\r\nothers may have started this war, but we will fight back how we choose, when we choose. what is beyond choice or doubt is that we will strike back hard and we will be lethal. we already have in fact done this, and will continue to do so. \r\n\r\nengaging the public in open discussion and debate about all of this is good. an informed and partipartory citizenry is one of our greatest strengths, and is the model on which our military operates to such an effective and lethal degree. unpredictability in both international conflict and domestic politics is also significant and necessary. this discussion we are having should not be lining up on sides dividing healthy policy from healthy policy. we must have both raw freedom and the threat of total unpredictability running through our veins and showing in our actions. as joe likes to point out, we are engaged in 4th generation warfare. these are not conflicts characterized by columns of troops linining up on opposing sides and waiting for daylight for mutually agreed battle to begin. this is a war that knows no 4th wall. if war is politics by another means, our actions must achieve those means. that is the standard we must set for ourselves in our grand policy debate.\r\n\r\nwe can and we must have the essense of what both would-be \"sides\" in this discussion are attempting to communicate. we cannot treat our own population in the same cynical way as the european and islamist governments we criticize so readily treat theirs. i do not however think it is the case that we are doing so... i dont agree with sdb when he says its a matter of degree and meticulously limited context. i think he gives up too much in choose that as his justification for his underlying point of how important it is to remain unpredicatble in war (or to paraphrase emerson to the best of my memory: \"how i wish i had never spoken with authority so others would not always think they know me by what i have said in the past\"). \r\n\r\ni think he also gives up too much (maybe just tired of having to defend the war from all the mewling quagmirists) when he dismisses the wmd threat as if it were a \"necessary embellishment\". \r\nof course wmd were never the single dominant reason to go to war. but did the administration exagerate the threat? i dont think so in the least bit. \r\n\r\na nuke in saddams hands before the end of this decade is a pretty immediate threat. saddam as first customer in line to buy north korean nukes is quite a scary thought also. the administration laid out all of the arguments for going to war. they have have chosen which to emphasize more, but it is not an american right to demand the administration regulate its emphasis in any specific way. fundamentally, the advocates of intervention - the bush administration included - told the truth. they engaged the american public - and the world - in a vigorous and lengthy debate... which many of us here participated in. \r\n\r\nseeing the results, i think they were pretty damn succesful in mixing the essential of what we are all looking for here... the unpredicatability of military action along with the highly informed populace we would expect of a free nation. if that level of participation and information isnt high enough for our standards, it may have more to do with the interest levels of the public for learning more than soundbites about all of this than it has to do with anything else.','2003-07-27 12:43:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5070,1,3821,'209.83.111.69','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The Democrats have one big iron albatross around their neck. Vietnam.\r\n\r\nWe were told by the Democrat left that if the North won the war there would be no re-education camps as other communist countries had, no massacres. Peace and harmony. No mention of boat people.\r\n\r\nIt was all one big sack of lies.\r\n\r\nAnd now they are doing it again re:Saddam. Just like in Vietnam, at war\'s end the truth came out. Thank god it was only three weeks.\r\n\r\nMy take is still the same as it was when I last posted on the subject. The fracturing of the Democrat Party and its replacement with a pro-war, pro-capitalist, civil liberties party.\r\n\r\nFrom the looks of this discussion the fracturing is propagating quite nicely. \r\n\r\nI think the loons will retain the name Democrat. It will come to mean \"up against the wall\" communist. There is a good chance the Greens might rejoin the fold under those circumstances.','2003-07-27 13:06:36','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5071,1,3821,'209.83.111.69','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Re: Ashcroft and the patriot Act. Congress is doing a bit to reign in the sneak and peak section.\r\n\r\nWe do live in a representative Democracy. The government listens. Not well, but that just means the citizens need a bigger clue by four.\r\n\r\nThe price of liberty is eternal vigilance. Liberty is not a natural state among men. It takes energy to maintain.','2003-07-27 13:15:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5072,1,3821,'209.83.111.69','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The thing to keep in mind here is that the \"up against the wall\" left is not about pragmatism and solutions. What works. It is about beliefs. Thus no amount of reason can shake them. \r\n\r\nThis is very powerful if your beliefs corespond roughly to reality. If not. Kaboom.\r\n\r\nWhich is why doubt is such a powerful ally.\r\n\r\nThe west is built on the scientific method which can be summed in one word - DOUBT. It is very powerful. More powerful than belief; even though at first glance it appears weaker.','2003-07-27 13:44:08','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5073,1,3821,'209.83.111.69','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Islam with its fragmented preachers is in many ways like Judaism at the beginning of the rabinical period. \r\n\r\nTo reach that state it\'s hope of gain from violence must be utterly destroyed. Rome did that for the Jews from 70 AD on.\r\n\r\nAmerica will now be helping Islam in the same way.\r\n\r\nOr as others have said America has been drawn into the Saudi/Islam civil war.\r\n\r\nCould Bush say that without getting into serious hot water? No.\r\n\r\nSo he calls it a war on terrorism. Whatever. If you have been paying attention at all you know that the definition of winning this war is a Moslem Reformation. Truth be told we have nation built, but this project of redoing a religion is a first for America.\r\n\r\nSo it is not hard to figure the general outlines: take out countries supporting violent Islam one by one either by conquest or reformation.\r\n\r\nImmediately post 9/11 I\'d say that confusion about Bush policy was not unreasonable. For the Democrats to say they have seen no written articulated policy they could agree to, I have this answer: Bush\'s policy is pretty obvious now given his actions. As to not agreeing with his policy I\'d say that was a given. \r\n\r\nThe question of when and how we will hit the next target(s) has to be uppermost in the minds of the autocrats of the ME. I don\'t want to know the answer to that question given how well Bush has done so far. Let him keep them and me guessing.\r\n\r\nWe have been in a war at least since WTC \'93 or Lebanon \'83. We pretended not to notice. We have been fully joined since 9/11. So the policy is war. \r\n\r\nSo we have a policy of war against Fascist Islam. Future targets unspecified. How can Ds say there is no policy? The best they can say is that they don\'t like the targets chosen so far. Or methods used. To ask for target approval in public discussion is stupid in war. It is especially stupid given that support for the war is high. And is being bolstered by troop reports which come in unfiltered over the net. The steady drip drip of deaths is painful but if the Israelis have been able to take it for years so can we.\r\n\r\nThe Ds ought to wise up and take the war off the table. The tax cut too. Lieberman said that. He sees the future of the party.\r\n\r\nToo bad no other majory lefty does. \r\n\r\nJoe and I are on the same page and I\'m a neo-con.\r\n\r\nGo figure.\r\n','2003-07-27 14:17:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5074,1,3832,'209.83.111.69','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','It appears to me that someone figured it out.\r\n\r\nSee comments past #40 especially #43 here:\r\n\r\nhttp://windsofchange.net/cgi-bin/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=3821\r\n','2003-07-27 14:41:54','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5075,1,3822,'209.83.111.69','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','I think we have to hold out the option of real genocide to them. So they get the idea that fookin with America will not give them the results they want.\r\n\r\nI think setting up Iraq as flypaper is excellent. Bring it on. Nothing like a fair fight on THEIR territory.\r\n\r\nThey just need to give up the whole WMD idea. We are willing to commit genocide if the attack is serious enough. \r\n\r\nAnd I want it widely known that this Jewish cowboy from New Jersey supports such a policy 100%. Hands off America. Period. Or we will be doing modern art. You know shadow pictures on walls with atomic flash bulbs. You don\'t want to go there.\r\n\r\nThis is the land of crazy cowboys and we are only severely annoyed at this point. You don\'t want to get us mad. Sometimes we lose all reason. You know we just can\'t help it. The American disease you know. A lot of folks could get really hurt and that would be most unfortunate.','2003-07-27 15:11:14','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5076,1,3832,'67.225.186.175','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Well, first off I want to say that I\'m heartened to see that the Guardian has finally come around to supporting the Western Democracies - Britain, the United States, the countries that weren\'t considered \"our allies\" by The Guardian before.\r\n\r\nBetter late than never, I suppose. I\'ll be happy to see them supporting us and our allies in the current struggle, too. . .~10+ years after it ends they will have been all for us in it, I\'m sure.\r\n\r\nFor now, since the people they consider allies in the Fight for Freedom are a bit different from those we and our allies might pick, I tend to take their words with a grain of salt.\r\n\r\nOn Target\r\n\r\nThe first thing one notices is that all the people claiming Bush hasn\'t outlined a strategic vision of what is involved here are all the people who first slipped the various statements he\'s made on the subject - from the speech at West Point a little over a year ago, to the document outlining America\'s global policy (the exact name of which slips my mind at the moment, it\'s been so long since it was refered to - and then, disparigingly and distortively), to the vanished segments of his State of the Union Speech (he may as well not have uttered everything except a single sentence), and going back even before then to his major Post Sept. 11th speeches.\r\n\r\nIMO, the more I think about this subject and the more that I am able to recover from the cobwebs of memory, the real problem isn\'t that Bush has failed to articulate a vision of what is involved and how we will pursue our war aims - the problem is that some folks didn\'t like the vision he outlines, but rather than deal with it honestly they claim he failed to articulate one at all.\r\n\r\nThis is sort of similar to the way the broad media treated Blair\'s speech before the Joint Session of Congress; like Winston Churchill\'s at Fulton, MI, which outlined what was involved in the Cold War, Blair\'s speech articulated just about everything involved in the war - but it was barely referenced in the news that night and has vanished from public view since. It\'s like a rock was thrown into a tranquil pool and produced no ripples at all.\r\n\r\n(Also, this contradicts one of the widespread \"Memes\" out there, that We don\'t care what our allies think and We won\'t listen to anyone but ourselves; actually, We do - it\'s the other folks who don\'t pay attention and then claim we\'re not willing to cooperate with others on the Big Picture, only letting them tag along).\r\n\r\nBlair & Bush and various administration officials have *ALL* articulated exactly what they are being accused of not communicating. However, since large elements of the vision they outline are antipathetic to the institutions that communicate information to the public, well. . .we get what we have;\r\n\r\nforces out there creating the \"perception\" that Bush has failed to do what he has done. The failure hasn\'t been on Bush\'s part - responsibility lies elsewhere, within rather collapsed, malfunctioning civil institutions. In a free society, we\'re not supposed to have to rely on the aparatus of The State for everything.\r\n\r\nI could go on, rather pointedly - and resignedly. But I won\'t.','2003-07-27 16:14:53','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5077,1,3832,'66.69.0.109','Trent Telenko','trent@windsofchange.net','','When the Democratic opposition is being completely irrational. Bush owes them nothing. The only time Bush needs to deploy arguments on grand strategy for the war is prior to a major combat campaign like Iraq and prior to elections, IOW, for his maximum political benefit.\r\n\r\nThat is why Bush did not engage Democrats until the run up to the 2002 elections and until before combat in Iraq. And he will do so again to crucify the Democratic Presidential nominee for 2004.\r\n\r\nThe whole UN approval campaign was primarily for the benefit of Tony Blair, an ally. You risk things for the sake of real allies. Pro-war liberals haven\'t been real allies to Bush in the war. They have behaved far to much like French co-dependents to be trusted by the Bushies. And as Rummie reminded all and sundry, there are limits to what you do for even real allies, like when he said America could conquer Iraq without Britain when it looked like Blair was going wobbly. It was manifestly demonstrated we could have.\r\n\r\nThe issue with the US is that we have to small an Army for the post war reconstruction, made up of the wrong kind of units. It is an issue that the Democrats have ignored like they have ignored the Saudi Wahhabi Lobby connection to Bush. \r\n\r\nBush can get away with a lot, and make a lot of mistakes, when his opposition is \"...on the Planet Zongo\" as Steyn has recently put it.\r\n\r\nThis pro-war liberal demand for Bush to have this debate is a demand that he do the work pro-war liberals should be doing for themselves, in their own party. Sorry, politics doesn\'t work that way. Bush owes you nothing and less than nothing.\r\n\r\nIf you pro-war liberals want to convince your circle of friends that the war is good for America. You will have to do it for yourselves.','2003-07-27 16:15:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5078,1,3832,'67.225.186.175','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Clarification: I meant Fulton, Missouri, but I used the wrong abreviation; s.b. \"MO\", not \"MI\"','2003-07-27 16:27:18','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5079,1,3822,'68.45.177.219','mary','whataretheysaying@yahoo.com','http://www.whataretheysaying.org/blog/index.html','After 9/11, one of my biggest fears was that we’d overreact and start bombing indiscriminately, that we’d ‘nuke mecca’ Like many people, I worried about the consequences of such an overreaction. I also worried because, like many people, I wanted to do it. Still, it would have been wrong. \r\n\r\nSome thought that Bush would overreact, but he didn’t. That was when I first started to have some respect for him. We didn’t go to extremes after 9/11, and I have some confidence that we wouldn’t go to extremes if there was another attack. \r\n\r\nLetting the nukes (or MOABs) fly is one dangerous, extreme reaction that could cause a disaster. The other extreme reaction is the idea that killing is wrong, even when that killing is done to defend others and to save lives in the long run. The urge to seek peace when we’re dealing with nihilistic extremists who have no interest in peace, can cause more damage than a whole fleet of nuclear-armed subs. History is full of examples where inaction has caused more damage than action. If Hitler had been stopped before he invaded Czechoslovakia, how many millions of lives could have been saved?\r\n\r\nFrom recent history, the Taliban had a habit of murdering their own people by the thousands. By removing them and al Qaeda from power in Afghanistan, we most likely prevented many terror attacks around the world and prevented thousands of Afghan deaths. Saddam had a habit of murdering hundreds of thousands of his own people. That carnage has stopped. \r\n\r\nOne of the most horrific things America has ever done was to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Yet, most historians agree that if we hadn’t used the bomb, many more lives would have been lost. At that point in time, dropping the bomb wasn’t an extreme reaction – it was a way of preventing a larger war.\r\n\r\nWWII did destroy some of Japan’s old culture – yet, in the long run, it seems to have worked out for the best. I can’t say, though – it would be better to ask the Japanese about that.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-27 16:27:55','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5080,1,3833,'172.150.181.200','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','ive been thinking a lot about north korea this morning. something about the threat of an american city, or any city in the world, being destroyed in a terrorist denotated nuclear blast has just been sticking in my mind. this was all triggered by watching stephanopoulous this morning.\r\n\r\nive been mulling over all the options ive come across for dealing with the north korean crisis. im not going to go over them again here and now, but rather im wondering if anyone has more insight into one option that i dont know enough about...\r\n\r\nive been thinking about low yield nukes in relation to the north korean artillery problem. this connects to the post above because i would assume these weapons would be launched from submarines right up close to the north korean coast. the sticking point for any successful military operation against the north koreans is that this is a hostage situation. south korea is the hostage. more specifically seoul. the massed artillery right near the dmz is the gun to the head of the south korean capitol. \r\n\r\nso what ive been wanting to know more about is whether the use of low yield nukes, in whatever the required numbers would be, would significantly slant the outcome of a war against north korea as it relates to the survival of seoul. \r\n\r\nid also like to know what the environmental impact of low yield nuke use is. its hard to find objective information on such a charged subject when searching online. so if anyone knows more about this itd be great to hear about it. ','2003-07-27 16:44:10','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5081,1,3832,'172.150.181.200','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','porphy, i agree completely and that was very well said.\r\n\r\ntrent, are there any more \"pro-war liberals\" among us? i thought it was pretty clear that most if not all who may have called themselves that in the past (i flirted with it personally) have been going through a period of profund reconsideration of whether there is any value whatsoever in the old tired arguments over liberalism that you seem to want to go back to. \r\n\r\nsome here are still resisting the urges to be done with the hysterical anti-war left and its appeasers among the pro-war only when it suits them, so-called-liberals. it is a hard thing to go through shedding a self conception and identity that has been so familiar from what is now becoming clear to be a world that no longer exists. some are adjusting more rapidly than others. you should be more willing to accept when the people you are engaged in discussion with are admitting that a large part of them was wrong... and should also realize that this does not automatically make you right.','2003-07-27 17:03:11','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5082,1,3822,'68.45.177.219','mary','whataretheysaying@yahoo.com','http://www.whataretheysaying.org/blog/index.html','oops - I cut off the end of my overly long comment..\r\n\r\nDuring WWII, the Japanese were as nihilistic and self-destructive as the Arabs are today, but they had a stronger military force. Since the Arabs (even with their terror paramilitaries) are a fairly weak fighting force, I don’t think our government or any other Western government will go to either extreme when fighting them. I doubt that we have any intention of letting the nukes fly – and I don’t think the Europeans have any real commitment to pacifism. They just want to let us do all the work and take all the blame, as always. ','2003-07-27 17:17:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5083,1,2999,'24.66.94.142','Plautus Satire','plautus_satire@yahoo.com','http://www.geocities.com/plautus_satire/columbia','The \"purple lightning\" most likely came from the Starfire beamed energy weapons lab, and was most likely a beamed energy weapon like one of their \"plasma projectiles,\" which they liken to \"firing a bolt of lightning.\" The absurd foam damage theory has been discounted by NASA since day one, and the media, at the promptings of the Columbia \"Accident\" \"Investigation\" Board have been sensationalizing, misrepresenting NASA\'s quotes on the matter, misquoting NASA\'s statements out of context to make it appear as if the \"foam damage\" theory had some merit and outright LYING about the entire incident. It\'s clear that Admiral Gehman is not leading any investigation but it leading a coverup.','2003-07-27 18:53:04','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5084,1,3832,'63.206.171.97','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','Joe,\r\n\r\nTake den Beste\'s article and change the term \"Arab\" to \"Democratic Party\".\r\n\r\nThe Bush Administration put up their grand strategy a year ago. There was no serious discussion.\r\n\r\nThere CAN\'T be a serious discussion given the present state of the Democratic Party.\r\n\r\nTheir noses have to be rubbed in the mud, and their illusions shattered, before there can be such a discussion. Just as we have to shatter the Arabs\'s fantasies before serious reform of their loser culture can start. Our conquest and occupation of Iraq is only the start of both.\r\n\r\nNOTHING President Bush says can give the Democrats a backbone. That they have to discover for themselves. Only then can the discussion you want start.\r\n\r\nUntil then the Democrats will be justly ignored. They don\'t want a discussion. They want a one-sided diatribe by them. \"Stop the world - I want to get off!\"\r\n\r\nAnd national elections will resemble baseball arbitration. Each side puts up their offers and the arbitrator picks the one he thinks is most reasonable. All or nothing. Win or lose.\r\n\r\nTough for the Democrats.','2003-07-27 19:02:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5085,1,3832,'209.103.239.3','Fred Boness','fboness@excel.net','','There is a security concept called need to know. This means you have access to the classified information you need to know to do your job. Access to more than that has no benefit. \r\n\r\nSteven Den Beste understands this. Kevin Drum does not.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-27 19:05:05','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5086,1,3832,'216.99.228.104','Sparkey','sparkey@sgtstryker.com','http://www.sgtstryker.com','Tom is correct, and additionally Keven Drum needs read some history. \r\n\r\nIf, for example, FDR had laid out some sort of \"Grand Strategic Vision\" other than say unconditional surrender of our enemies, just what do you think the Germans, Japanese, and Italians would have done with that information? Grand deceptions such as the ones to protect the Sicily invasion (and pinned several German divisions in the Balkans) and Fortitude (the deception campaign to protect the Normandy D-Day landings) would have been far harder to accomplish.\r\n\r\nSDB is not claiming that we can\'t trust the \"people,\" Keven\'s argument here is a classic straw man, what SDB is pointing out that we can\'t trust that such information can\'t and won\'t get into the hands of the enemy. The trust issue here must be that we, the people, need have some trust in our elected representatives to the right thing to protect us. And if you look at the results so far, I think that trust is pretty well placed.\r\n\r\nIf you want a broad articulation on the scale of \"unconditional surrender\" or like that of the cold war, then go read Bush\'s speeches and those of the vice President. It is all there, on the same broad type of outlines like FDR, Truman, Ike, Reagan, etc., before him. \r\n\r\nIf you choose to not see the forest because of all those trees getting in the way, there is nothing that I or the President can say or do that will open your eyes. You have to do that yourself.','2003-07-27 19:26:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5087,1,3832,'216.99.228.104','Sparkey','sparkey@sgtstryker.com','','OOPS! My first line should read, \"Fred is correct...\"\r\n\r\nAs to broad strategy, go read the National Security document on the White House webpage.','2003-07-27 19:29:27','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5088,1,3832,'64.171.3.135','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','Joe writes:\r\n\r\n\"For whatever reason, serious discussion is not happening via the media.\"\r\n\r\nLet me think...why wouldn\'t the media want a serious discussion?..hmm. Wouldn\'t they want to help the Democrats by giving their side of the serious discussion more airtime?\r\n\r\nI\'ll bet if they keep waiting they\'ll get a serious discussion in September 2004. ','2003-07-27 19:41:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5089,1,3832,'12.246.71.234','Tim','tj@hotmail.com','','I respectfully disagree with A.L. on the details. Anyone paying attention to the president or his Administration clearly understands why we are at war, and what the contours of that war are. In short, U.S. policy as enunciated by the president is: “terrorism is a threat to free nations and liberty; the U.S. will fight terrorism; the U.S. will not distinguish between terrorists and nation’s supporting terrorism; the U.S. faces no greater threat than terrorists armed with weapons of mass destruction; the U.S. will act unilaterally and preemptively, if necessary, to defend itself and liberty from the threat of terrorism.” Where’s the confusion?\r\n\r\nThere is no honest confusion. Supporters and opponents alike understand the policy. The dispute is over the manifestations of that policy: war, fought unilaterally and preemptively against a largely hidden enemy.\r\n\r\nThat some refuse to hear it, or are not completely convinced by it, or are disappointed that fellow liberals/leftists aren\'t convinced doesn\'t mean the case has not been made. The president and the administration, I think, respect the intelligence of the American people, and find no reason to mimic Al Gore and continuously lecture the citizenry as if we are collectively stupid. There is no subterfuge, no rhetorical slight of hand; no hiding the ball. This isn’t a war about oil; this isn’t a war about American Empire; this isn’t a Christian Crusade on behalf of Israel or against Islam. I think this is simply a matter where either you get it; you don\'t get it; or you refuse to get it. \r\n\r\nThe ones who don\'t get it; those who think America is to blame; those who think it is all about oil; those who think it is about American Empire; those who think it is a Christian crusade on behalf of Israel or against Islam; those who hate their culture and civilization; they will never get it until they are sitting in an airplane plowing into the skyscraper at 400 mph; or they are otherwise made direct victims of terrorism. Engaging them for the purpose of persuasion is worse than useless - it is a distraction from the task at hand. They will never support our war against terrorism – all we can hope is they never flip to the other side and become effectively enemies.\r\n\r\nAmerica\'s problem is with those who refuse to get it. A myriad of domestic and international political and philosophical cross currents result in a sizeable part of America and apparent majorities in Europe and Canada, as well as their governments and members of the UNSC resembling the O.J Simpson jury, writ large. And by that I mean their petty, parochial, partisan politics; their frustrations with or envy of American wealth and power; or their anger with the current Administration\'s discounting of their pet projects like Kyoto or the ICC has led them to willfully ignore the evidence before their eyes so they can make their superfluous political points or defend their worldviews. In the face of such willful intransigence, it\'s Bush\'s fault for not making the case? These people hold America\'s security less dear than their cherished dreams of a transnationalist progressive world subordinating national sovereignty, especially American sovereignty. Theirs is an America for which, like the Simpson jury’s LAPD, the use of power is regarded as so threatening that it must be constrained, even if to their own detriment. Ironic, isn\'t it, that their transnational progressive dreams aren\'t possible without American arms to secure the peace necessary for such projects? \r\n\r\nComplaining about the absence of a clearly articulated \"grand-strategy\" misrepresents the problem. The problem isn\'t salesmanship; it is disinterested buyers.\r\n\r\nAnd here the Cold War is useful - but in contrast. Unlike nearly monolithic Communism with dominion over contiguous geography, armed with unconventional weapons and an expansionist ideology; our enemy is dispersed and is engaged in an ideological civil war within its own culture; an ideological civil war fueled by centuries of cultural failure. And the values of the West, America its exemplar, is the most direct threat to the values of the Islamist fascist insurgency. \r\n\r\nSo we are at war to defend ourselves from this threat – but our enemies aren’t explicitly Arab or Islamic nations – they are more like the Viet Cong in Vietnam (and that is probably the only comparison to the Vietnamese War of any utility), often hiding in plain sight. There were those who resisted U.S. efforts (as has been frequently discussed on this board, American Democrats by and large after 1968 and the international Left) against Communism, although the threat was both clearer and more transparent. It is no accident that these usual suspects have coalesced in opposition to a war in which the enemy is more elusive; his armaments not entirely knowable; and his cause often supported by near-innocents because of their own frustrations and failures. \r\n\r\nToss in the irrational but powerful impulses of guilt and cultural self-loathing held by contemporary Liberals, their control of elite opinion shaping institutions and the larger western tradition of self-examination and we are left with what should be obvious: a clear understanding of our strategy, clearly articulated; but doubted by those who question the nature of the threat, uncertain of our innocence, believe us somehow responsible for provoking our enemies’ actions or, at best, not convinced that the manifestations of that policy (war, unilaterally and preemptively waged, if necessary) are the fairest and best ways to proceed.\r\n\r\nBlaming the president for this is like blaming him for the weather (and please, don’t get started on global warming…!). No one can currently break this impasse. The best person to try, to date, has been Christopher Hitchens. And we’ve all seen how the doubters have accepted his analysis. \r\n','2003-07-27 19:47:15','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5090,1,3833,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Part of the question for fallout is the ground burst vs. air-burst question. Assuming really well dug-in artillery, it has to be a ground shot. Which means all kinds of fallout headed into the air, and over Seoul (remember, it\'s within artillery range).\r\n\r\nWhich kind of defeats the purpose. Probably not a viable first-strike option.','2003-07-27 19:56:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5096,1,3832,'172.150.181.200','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','heh. that was perfect phil.','2003-07-27 21:40:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5097,1,3833,'209.83.111.69','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The answer to the NK artillery problem is simple but difficult.\r\n\r\nKeep squeezing the Norks economically with pressure short of that for which the Norks might go to war. Now the Norks do not want to go to war. They very much do not want to go to war. It would be the end of their system. Yet their system depends on the threats of war for internal stability and external power.\r\n\r\nSo it is a delicate game. As long as their economy declines at a slow rate - they have time to adjust to their pain - we can probably keep up the pressure until their whole system falls apart. Once the trains stop running military adventure of any significant kind is out of the question for them.\r\n\r\nThe sad thing about this strategy is the suffering of the people. ','2003-07-27 21:52:24','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5098,1,3832,'152.163.253.3','Tom Donelson','tomdonelson@donelsonresearchpublishing.com','','In many ways, the Bush administration have made their case for the present war. Throughout the entire buildup to the Iraq war, the overall strategy of dealing with terrorism was discussed. Bush\'s own plan to defang Arafat and insisting that Arafat or his supporters be elminated from any part in the formation of a new Palestine state indicated Bush\'s own vision of the middle east. \r\n\r\nWhile the Bush adminstration need not tell the world or Americans every details of strategy, the Bush\'s administration has at least discussed a long term strategy that can be gleamed by Bush\'s own words since 9/11. In Bob Woodward book on the Afghan war shows that there was a debate on where to go next after the Afghan campaign. \r\n\r\nBush\'s foreign policy is there for the world to see. All you have to do is to read various statements by Bush\'s people over the past two years. ','2003-07-27 22:39:23','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5099,1,3832,'12.246.71.234','Tim','tj@hotmail.com','','Yep, Phil\'s post is right on point. Either the war on terrorism will be won overseas by taking the war to the enemy\'s home; or it will be lost here at home while we dither and despair.\r\n\r\nBush wants to take the war to the enemy to win; the Democrats are dithering and despairing because, well, there are all kinds of explanations. Choose your own. It’s likely to be right – the Democrats are all over the map. \r\n\r\nAnd those facts aren’t Bush’s “fault,” no matter how much the insufferable likes of Kevvy Drum may proclaim them so.\r\n','2003-07-27 23:19:42','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5100,1,3832,'64.171.3.135','Richard A. Heddleson','richard@heddleson.org','','\"grab-bag opportunism conducted with no regard whatsoever for the long term\"\r\n\r\nA perfect description of how FDR handled the Great Depression. Funny how it can work too.','2003-07-27 23:30:29','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5101,1,3792,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Devon,\r\n\r\nYou look at what happened to the Hugenots and Anabaptists, for instance, and you\'d never have believed that Christianity was reformable either.\r\n\r\nA religion is what its adherents believe it to be. \r\n\r\nThat sometimes has a negative side - for instance, I think it\'s disingenuous to say that terrorism et. al. has no connection to Islam, given that so many Islamic clerics et. al. promote it. That, and the whole notion of aggressive jihad violence against the Dar-ul-Harb, are serious flaws that will render the long-term survival of Islam problematic in a world with so many other powerful civilizations. So, these issues and others need to be addressed.\r\n\r\nOn the other hand, if enough members of a religion change their minds and begin adhering to non-literal interpretations, then things can change a great deal. For instance, John Paul II\'s apologies during his term extended to pagans who were the object of brutal tactics by missionaries and soldiers. If you had told a practicing 16th century Catholic that this would be true, they would have branded you as literally insane. That wouldn\'t have even been imaginable.\r\n\r\nAs Judith Weiss once noted, religions have literalists and mystics, and the latter group often reach a place where they become almost like scientists and explorers, you get them together and they just want to talk about their experiments and experiences - FROM their frameworks, but not trapped WITHIN them. This is undoubtedly how Sufiism picked up Hindu influences in some of its schools.\r\n\r\nSo the Sufis are one example of an Islamic sect that is already there re: the spirit of the religion taking primacy, and their doctrines and teaching methods consistently stress interpretation and deeper understanding as necessary complements that move one beyond the official teachings without wholly abandoning them. They are Islamic, in other words, but not fundamentalist, Islamic Taoists to the Wahhabi Confucians, etc.\r\n\r\nThat, and they have these fantastic teaching stories and poetry. It\'s a significant cultural and spiritual contributions to the whole human race, as well as a reminder and source of hope. So I enjoy sharing, and many people here enjoy reading it.','2003-07-27 23:32:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5102,1,3814,'68.5.110.43','Kevin Drum','calpundit@cox.net','http://www.calpundit.com','I don\'t feel like it\'s all that productive to do a lot of lefty bashing. After all, we\'ve got conservatives to do that for us.\r\n\r\nHowever, I do address this issue on my blog regularly. Just the other day I wrote a post about the Greens and whether the Dems should start attacking them more strongly, for example. I took a shot at the NAACP a few days before that.\r\n\r\nBut....although I agree with you about perceptions (that is, that public perception of the liberal extreme is worse than public perception of the conservative extreme), why are you so sanguine about the Christian right wing of the Republican party? Do you do your best to read them the riot act and get them out of the party? Or are they OK just because they\'re solid on defense?\r\n\r\nOr is it that you think there\'s nothing wrong with them? Because to me they\'re every bit as scary as the academics in Berkeley beavering away on their latest theory of critical analysis.','2003-07-27 23:55:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5103,1,3832,'68.5.110.43','Kevin Drum','calpundit@cox.net','http://www.calpundit.com','I think you guys are missing the point. Bush shouldn\'t talk about this because he needs to engage the Democrats, he needs to talk about it because otherwise the American public won\'t support it.\r\n\r\nEveryone commenting here is a news junkie and understands all the arguments. The vast majority of people don\'t. (Go talk to a few ordinary folks at a PTA meeting if you don\'t believe me.) They think we were in Iraq to get rid of Saddam Hussein, and that\'s it. Unless Bush -- and it has to be Bush -- gives them a different reason, they aren\'t going to want to stick it out in the Middle East. After all, Saddam is gone, so why should American boys still be risking their lives?\r\n\r\nMichael: it\'s a shame that anyone who is skeptical of a primarily military strategy for the war on terror is \"unserious.\" I would say just the opposite: serious people understand how complex this problem is and how many different things need to come together for us to win. The unserious ones are the people who think that a bigger military is going to do the job.\r\n\r\nSending the marines in is easy and feels good. But if you\'re really serious about winning the war, you need to go far, far beyond that.','2003-07-28 00:09:57','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5104,1,3824,'165.247.43.48','Diana','prairie_moon@earthlink.net','http://gotham.madhoo.com','Here\'s Paula Fredriksen\'s CV:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.bu.edu/religion/faculty/fredriksen/PF2002cv.htm\r\n\r\nIgnorant, unreliable....I\'m laughing, really.','2003-07-28 00:10:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5105,1,3814,'216.66.108.130','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Kevin:\r\nExtremists of all political axes are dangerous. IMO the Left wing extremists seem to get far more air time than the RWE.\r\n\r\nChristian Right- IMO if they didn\'t like most of what the Republican party has to offer, the CR would walk away. The CR seems to be a multi-issue group, not 100% focused on abortion, and can support the Party despite not getting their Holy Grail. Would the Pro Choice movement walk from the Democrats without choice a major plank in the platform?','2003-07-28 00:14:12','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5106,1,3814,'67.225.186.116','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.','I figured that \r\n\r\n1) You would ignore what I said about the castigation of Buchananites and Pat Robertson and his ilk.\r\n\r\nso that you could\r\n\r\n2) Turn this back into a tu quoque and sidestep the issue, again.\r\n\r\nBut it does make your response interesting when you convert it into \"bashing\" of poor, put-upon Lefties, and the Conservatives are to do that and also bash their Hard Right - which, indeed, is done.\r\n\r\nThat\'s why there\'s all that whining, to remind you again, from various elements on the extreme Right over how influential moderate and neo-Conservative elements are compared to themselves; and how, as someone else pointed out in another thread, it is the Lefties who purge your movement, while the Buchananites et al purge ours.\r\n\r\nIf you want to remain a Sgt. Shultz type (although I\'m starting to think Officer Barbrady may be a better analogy), wondering why it is most people agree with your side on \"the issues\" that are commonly polled and yet won\'t vote for your candidates - yes, most people consider security more important and won\'t trust their safety to a gang that defends those inimical to American defense by responding with a \"oh, well, the Religious Right exist and haven\'t been driven from politics. Until then, we can\'t make asserting ourselves against the wackos among us.\"\r\n\r\nBy the by, I\'ve begun wondering of late why the Religious Right extemists are so bad, but the Religious Left extremists (who are just as pervasive on your side of the isle as the Religious Right is on mine, if one looks at things honestly rather than simply through the lense of media driven hype that emphasizes only one side of the equasion) are not that important.\r\n\r\nBut, yah; if you wonder why I tend to at best treat your reactions to things as something to poke fun at, it\'s precisely the attitude that you and me should both go after the hard Right, but you\'ll leave going after the hard Left to me and shrug it off yourself.\r\n\r\n(Officer Barbrady speaks.)','2003-07-28 00:18:30','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5107,1,3827,'216.66.108.130','Phil Winsor','diger@vermontel.net','','Have they thought about putting someone with experience at running a large political unit (some of the US\' 50 states economies are larger than many small countries) such as a former/current governor?? Someone that has experience with transportation, public utilities, law enforcement, etc.?\r\n\r\nHow about Rudy Giuliani??\r\n\r\nConcur with Baker not being vigorous enough for the Shogunate.','2003-07-28 00:23:43','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5108,1,3832,'209.83.111.69','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','The \"no strategy\" bit as most here have pointed out is non-sense.\r\n\r\nWhat is meant by that is that they have no strategy to offer and let us just pretend the president doesn\'t either.\r\n\r\nThe Ds are going to be out in the cold for a very long time. Lieberman gets it. Pro-war, pro-capitalism are the core values of America; the future of the left and right. National unity. The differences will be cultural not military or economic.\r\n\r\nThe Ds are fracturing.\r\n\r\n','2003-07-28 00:29:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5109,1,3832,'67.160.156.25','Michael J. Totten','mike.totten@netiq.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','Part of the problem is that too many people don\'t understand who our enemies are.\r\n\r\n\"War on terror\" is a bad description for what we\'re up to here. We are not at war against a military tactic. \r\n\r\nWe are at war with Islamic fascists who happen to use terrorism as a military tactic when they are not in power.\r\n\r\nNo one would say that taking out Saddam was a distraction from a war against Islamic fascists. \r\n\r\nI blame the Bush Administration for being vague, and I also blame anti-war liberals for not being able to figure it out for themselves, especially when Tony Blair articulates it so well.','2003-07-28 00:30:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5110,1,3814,'67.225.186.116','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','(each word in \"Officer Barbrady Speaks\" is a separate wav link).','2003-07-28 00:37:07','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5111,1,3832,'67.160.156.25','Michael J. Totten','mike.totten@netiq.com','http://michaeltotten.blogspot.com','Kevin, \r\n\r\nYes I very much agree that we need to go far beyond using only the military. \r\n\r\nAnd to shore up my agreement with you on this, here is Paul Berman in Slate explaining how Bush can enlist more allies in this fight, including a bigger chunk of Europe.','2003-07-28 00:50:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5112,1,3832,'209.83.111.69','M. Simon','msimon@xta.com','','Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. If most prefer to not be vigilant it is not the President\'s fault.\r\n\r\nSo far as I can tell Iraq is going well. Errors are being made and corrected. None so far are irreversable. Post war chaos is not unusual. In fact it is normal. \r\n\r\nKevin is correct the problem is complex. So complex that it will depend on the honor and integrity of individual Americans rather than orders from above. If that is the case then, knowing the Marines, I\'d say we and the Iraqis are in good hands.\r\n\r\nIt is no longer a test of our military skills it is a test of our culture. We will do fine.','2003-07-28 00:57:37','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5113,1,3832,'64.48.234.84','Sparkey','sparkey@sgtstryker.com','','Maybe I\'m off on this one, but from what polls I\'ve seen they seem to indicate that the American public is well on board with the President\'s plans and understand better than most media pundits what the President is trying to do.\r\n\r\nThe polls I\'ve seen also showed that the American public understood the possibility for casualties during the Iraq freedom and the polls after the war that showed that the public wasn\'t all that concerned about WMD being found. And the list goes on...\r\n\r\nHence, I don\'t understand Kevin\'s thesis that the American people seem to need the President to babysit them and talk about \"it\" or \"otherwise the American public won\'t support it.\"\r\n\r\nYet the President made his case and the American people supported it. If the fear is that the American people need constant reminding and support, that\'s a different issue. But the President is out there talking and talking and talking about it. This whole debate is starting to sound a lot like the \"talking points memo\" of secret war plans that were all too public.\r\n\r\nWith three children in public school I\'m more than a bit familiar with the PTA, and rest assured, in MY Dallas suburb the folks here understand what the President is trying to do.\r\n','2003-07-28 01:05:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5114,1,3822,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@seemyurl.com','http://www.windsofchange.com','Gabriel,\r\n\r\nYour comments concerning Little Green Footballs are simply unwarranted and untrue. Charles has a very open comments policy that attracts nutbars both left and right. But he most certainly is NOT a bigot, nor is that the intended audience for his site.\r\n\r\nIf you truly elieve that it is, you\'d better be prepared to face off with many of your fellow readers here, and for that matter many of this blog team - who read Charles\' blog regularly. They are not bigots, nor am I, and if you believe we are then you are a fool.\r\n\r\nSpeaking personally, I value LGF\'s continued exposes of the hatred being fomented in the Arab world. To attempt to understand the current international situation without reference to that phenomenon is like trying to understand Germany 1940 without any reference to its official culture of sanctioned and encouraged hate.','2003-07-28 02:22:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5115,1,3832,'67.118.201.20','Tom Holsinger','spamtomh@yahoo.com','','Kevin,\r\n\r\nYou express the Democrats\' fantasy ideology quite well.\r\n\r\nThe public understands what the Bush Administration is doing quite well. So do Democratic party activists. So, for that matter, does practically everybody.\r\n\r\nBut the Democratic activists don\'t like it. Worse, the public supports the Bush Administration\'s goals and means in the war on terror. Democratic activists dislike that even more. This would normally be their problem but, given the absence of Democratic voices to the contrary, it is the Democratic Party\'s problem bigtime too. This is why the Democratic Party is in danger of extinction.','2003-07-28 02:24:19','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5116,1,3827,'68.50.239.57','Ray','ray@princeton.edu','http://campuscgi.princeton.edu/~ray/weblog/','With respect to Baker\'s age: these things should be decided on a case-by-case basis. After all, Rumsfeld\'s past the 70 mark himself. ','2003-07-28 02:38:03','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5117,1,3814,'67.225.186.176','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','On Religion In Politics\r\n\r\nWhen people wring their hands about the influence of theocrats on politics, they never mean the Rev. Al Sharpton or the Rev. Jackson and their like. Nor do they mean that to encompas nuns who vandalize missile silos, or the Berrigan Brothers, or the Mary Knoll Nuns, or Bishop Sprong, or the Druid now leading the Anglican Church towards a Brave New Leftist Future, or the various Councils of Churches issuing edicts on the immorality of America and its policies\r\n\r\nI\'ve encountered people practicing politics from the pulpit at many times throughout my life. But interestingly, it has always been Leftist politics. From when I was in middle school and they had people come to talk to us about the importance of Nuclear Disarmament and the Nuclear Freeze - memorable to me because one ninny blathered about some theory, critical mass theory, whereby if 5% of the population (starting with us children) grooved on an idea, eventually they would persuade more, and once it reached 20% of the population supporting the issue, well, it would just as a matter of course eventually become a majority opinion.\r\n\r\nEven then I thought that was lame - for one thing, that could apply to the rise of the NAZI Party (uh-oh; I just broke Whatever\'s Law. Sue me; I was 12 at the time, mmmnkay?); this was also the Church where they wanted to declare the Church a \"nuclear free zone\", but my mother - bless her practical soul - asked if that meant that they would keep someone around all the time to monitor when our city was getting power from the Nuke plants along Lake Michigan and then turn out the lights.\r\n\r\nI\'m not sure anyone had ever punctured such banal feelgoodism so easily and almost accidentally, but that idea died at our Church - though it spread elsewhere.\r\n\r\nThat was a Lutheren Church, we shared facilities (and Sunday School classes & retreats and the like) with a UCC congregation.\r\n\r\nThen years later when I was a Senior in High School, we had moved across town by that point and were going to a different Lutheren Church, and they had people who had just come back from a junket to hang out with the FMLN, who were presented before us to tell us how great The Marxist Revolution in El Salvador was and how misunderstood their commrades, the Sandanistas in Nicaragua were.\r\n\r\nI should at some point get my mother to write a guest blog on why she felt unwelcomed at her Church in Colorado and left it; the constant political harangues from the pulpit overcame her and she dispaired of feeling welcomed there, even after having tried to discuss her feelings with the Pastor (a woman who\'s name slips my mind; I hadn\'t attended this Church). This was post-Sept 11th, and the continual sermoning on how wrong we were got to her. Got to my mother, the lifelong Democrat.\r\n\r\nI have left out my early youth because I don\'t so much remember the content. But I remember as a young lad sitting in Catholic Church (my father was Catholic, my mother Lutheren), in the early \'70s, singing leftist folk songs.\r\n\r\nAll the Churches I have ever been a member of have always been political, seeming to put politics ahead of faith. However, they have always been Leftist - never \"Religious Right\". But those who speak of the pernicious influence of theocrats on political discourse in this country are blind - as usual - to the vast influence of mainline, non-evangelical Churches in this regard; because whether they are Episcopalian, or mainline Catholic or Lutheren, or just about any other denomination considered mainstream, when they issue political statements and take political positions and contribute to political movements, participate in NGOs and the like, it is invariably from the Left.\r\n\r\nAre the Evangelicals often extreme? Yes. But Mr. Drum is quite revealing in being concerned - as is typical - with only one sort of religious intrusion into politics.\r\n\r\nIt\'s part of the whole I\'m talking about; in this, Kevin Drum would rather \"see nothing. . .nothing\" and the rest of us \"nothing to see here, move along. Nothing to see here.\"\r\n\r\nDo I think the utterances of Pat Robertson and his ilk are lame and their mitts best kept off policy? Sure. Just as I was vocal in getting Trent Lott removed from the leadership - but no Democrat ever insisted that David Bonior might not be suited to serve as their Whip (he stepped down on his own), or that Tom Hayden may have been elected but that doesn\'t mean the California Democratic politicians as a whole should make him their leader, or Ron Dellums chair the Armed Services Committe, and they might reconsider whether a man who characterizes the death of two senior enemies in a firefight during a war as us committing an \"assassination\" as fit to be a Chairmen if and when they recover the House, and, well, the list goes on and on. . .\r\n\r\n When they\'re running the State Universities, be it in Wisconsin or Berkeley or CUNY or Michigan and the like, then Kevin will have a point in comparing their influence to that of the tenured professors paid by the same country they denounce to call in speakers, pay them speaking fees out of funds derived from the same source, to talk at great length about how their dissent is being stiffled in faschist Amerikkka.\r\n\r\nKevin Drum also reveals just where he ranks as a priority the defense of the country by rather minimizing it in his response; this is really the attitude that affects even most mainstream Democrats that has been discussed here (and which Kevin disaproves of so strongly) - the attitude that ranges from expressions of indifference and low priority to outright opposition to defense-related issues, from spending to troops (the attitide of \"don\'t question our support for the troops\" anti-war types to people they encounter who are married to or a parent of a soldier and don\'t try to hide that in shame has been chronicled in a number of accounts, linked to in posts here and on other blogs such as mine).\r\n\r\nTo Kevin, this is a factor but not anything worth getting stirred up about; he\'d rather reserve his energies for more important matters, I suppose.\r\n\r\nOthers think that this is the most important matter we face today. Thus the distinction. And the problem for the Democrats, where his is the majority opinion and with only a few exceptions, it goes from moderately bad to extremely worse from there.\r\n\r\nNow, because I\'m open minded and tolerant of other perspectives, for another view, here\'s officer Barbrady\'s opinion of this comment post','2003-07-28 02:39:02','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5118,1,3832,'67.225.186.176','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Again: Again and again Bush has articulated this vision, but because various elements agree with Kevin in not liking it, they have slipped it down the memory hole and then, in full passive-agressive mode, claimed he doesn\'t have one and needs to come up with one.\r\n\r\nWhat they\'re really saying is that they don\'t like the one he has and will disapear it until he produces one more to their satisfaction.\r\n\r\nI don\'t think that\'s going to happen, no matter how long they hold his breath on the subject till everyone\'s face turns blue.','2003-07-28 02:51:49','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5119,1,3832,'67.225.186.176','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','Btw, implying that the strategic vision Bush has articulated consists simply of sending in the marines in every instance is one of those straw-man mischaracterizations that we\'ve come to know and loathe.','2003-07-28 02:53:44','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5120,1,3836,'4.35.80.94','Boomshock','boomshock@juno.com','http://boomshock.blogspot.com','Love the title, Joe!','2003-07-28 03:38:52','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5121,1,3805,'24.43.196.98','butter','mocci1234@yahoo.com','','What is the differenceNone.And if you think that what goes on there dosent go on here or in the US,your sleeping.Every day within every generation some leader,government or agency within the country,kidnapps, kills,hangs,inslaves,tortures,starves and oppresses its people.The first known terrorists amoungest many the KKK.Get over yourself America\r\nyou chickens are coming home to roost\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-07-28 04:31:25','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5122,1,3805,'24.43.196.98','butter','mocci1234@yahoo.com','','What is the differenceNone.And if you think that what goes on there dosent go on here or in the US,your sleeping.Every day within every generation some leader,government or agency within the country,kidnapps, kills,hangs,inslaves,tortures,starves and oppresses its people.The first known terrorists amoungest many the KKK.Get over yourself America\r\nyou chickens are coming home to roost\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n','2003-07-28 04:31:41','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5123,1,3827,'12.246.71.234','Tim','tj@hotmail.com','','Guliani would be excellent, except he\'s probably more interesting in raking in the cash right now. And, if he\'s interested in running for higher office down the road, Iraq poses a risk he doesn\'t have to take. But if the president were to ask him, who knows what he\'d do?\r\n\r\nIf a former governor of a big state were desirable, Pete Wilson from California meets the big-state and Republican test - and he\'s a Marine (as there are no \"former\" Marines, they keep telling me...) to boot. Democrats, especially hispanic ones, would scream like so many stuck pigs though...\r\n\r\nAlternatively, Bush could appoint Clinton, which would shut up most of the carpers and whiners in the Democrat Congressional Caucus. The obvious down-side being Iraqis would hate him, they\'d fear for their daughters as if Uday were still trolling for rape victims, and the job would be botched. So forget that.','2003-07-28 04:32:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5124,1,3833,'172.158.28.95','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','the problem with this strategy is that it may not work on its own. i do think it is one common sense component of a broader approach, but i was asking specifically whether there are any direct options or ideas for defending seoul and taking out the artillery pointed at it. ','2003-07-28 04:33:32','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5125,1,3832,'172.158.28.95','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','kevin, part of the reason those \"average\" americans you are citing dont know why we went into iraq or what the broader war is about is because of that pesky media situation joe and others have pointed out. it is our job, those of us that are informed, to keep the media honest and to engage in discussion with those pta members you are talking about. \r\n\r\nat the same time i think this may be a case of the \"how did reagan get elected? no one i know voted for reagan.\" syndrome. quite a large number of average americans do understand on some instinctive level - and in more detailed informed ways - just what this is all about. they openly support what this administration is doing about it. that you are not experiencing that may have more to do with who you know than with broader trends. \r\n\r\nultimately however, the bush administration will come out and explain in vigorous detail just what is going on for each and every pta member and other average american. they have done so to some degree before and will do so even more clearly in the near future. that time has not come yet because the current preoccupation is on staying out of the way while the opponents of this \"grand strategy\" continue to take enough rope to hang themselves with countless times over. \r\n\r\nright now the attention must be in iraq, doing the small critical things to make a country grow out of the baathist mess. the attention must be in doing the inspection work and gathering all of the damning information about wmd into david kay\'s capable hands. the attention must be on hunting down saddam. \r\n\r\nin this war on terror actions will speak louder than ankle-biting. the public debate we are all addicted to will come again soon enough. ','2003-07-28 04:49:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5126,1,3832,'12.246.71.234','Tim','tj@hotmail.com','','Kevvy thinks Americans are idiots, like the ones he holds in contempt at his local PTA. He wishes Bush were more like Al Gore, endlessly lecturing us idiot Americans (not smart enough to vote against Bush in \'04) over and over and over again about bin Laden\'s “Risky Big Terrorism Scheme.”\r\n\r\nOf course the war on terrorism is complex, and \"many different things need to come together for us to win.\" But really serious people, who aren\'t interested in playing parochial partisan games, understand the first thing that needs to come together is our military strategy and capability. \r\n\r\nWhen it\'s all said and done, we need to kill terrorists in their homes before they kill us in ours to win. That, the willingness to use the military unilaterally and preemptively, and the ongoing support of the American people are the necessary conditions for victory. \r\n\r\nOther things have been and will be useful - and we should not ignore them - but none are more important than the military means to kill terrorists; the political will to kill terrorists unilaterally and preemptively, when necessary; and the support of the American people for killing terrorists unilaterally and preemptively, when necessary. That is the baseline for winning the war. Everything else is optional.\r\n ','2003-07-28 04:58:22','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5127,1,3790,'64.12.96.104','mike','mike@whyimright.net','http://whyimright.net','i have every calvin and hobbes book printed. have you seen *this site*?','2003-07-28 06:03:34','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5128,1,3832,'65.95.80.159','Joe Katzman','joe@windsofchange.net','http://www.windsofchange.net','Tim,\r\n\r\n\"Kevvy\"? If he was your boyfriend or your child, that form of address would be sappy but not otherwise worthy of comment. Since he\'s neither, how about some respect? I think you\'re also projecting positions onto Calpundit that he may not hold, and I can say from experience that few things are more annoying.\r\n\r\nThe rest of your post is insightful and intelligent. So what\'s the damage with that first unnecessary paragraph? We have a great comments section here - let\'s keep it that way, folks.\r\n\r\nRe: Kevin\'s point that the \"average American\" needs to understand it, he may have something there. Yes, I do believe there\'s a gut-level understanding out there. What\'s missing is an articulated understanding whose message has stuck, and I agree that\'s probably still in play (the Democrats are currently too extreme to get there, the Republicans might). Balagan, ironically, explains what\'s going on.\r\n\r\n\"No one I know voted for Reagan,\" Balagan? OK, but don\'t you see that \"everyone I know groks that the Saudis are the long-term problem\" may work in the Blogosphere but be a surprise beyond? Same dynamics.\r\n\r\nFinally, Kevin\'s point that \"Sending the marines in is easy and feels good. But if you\'re really serious about winning the war, you need to go far, far beyond that.\"\r\n\r\nFirst of all, sending in the Marines is NOT easy, Kevin. Those who seem to think it is... I wonder about them.\r\n\r\nDo we need to go far beyond just that option? Yes. The Democrats\' problem, and to some extent yours too, is that you seem to assume the Marines should therefore NOT be an option. Your essays suggesting that al-Qaeda is a police problem go to the heart of this issue.\r\n\r\nThat does not logically follow. Use of the Armed Forces to win this war is a NECESSARY condition of victory when dealing with a problem of state-fomented hate and state-sponsored terror. That does not mean it is a SUFFICIENT condition. It\'s the table stakes and opening hand in the poker game, without which you cannot play, but not itself a winning hand.\r\n\r\nClinton tried doing without those table stakes, and accomplished less than nothing (in Woolsley\'s words, it was the equivalent of a big \"kick me\" sign), and the end result was several thousands of Americans dead in New York. After that manifest failure, suggesting more of the same... no, that is just not seen as serious, and rightly so because it fails to grapple with many of the key questions (back to my comments in another thread).','2003-07-28 06:05:20','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5129,1,3832,'4.61.6.162','Armed Liberal','armed@armedliberal.com','http://www.windsofchange.net','I\'m pulling together a set of \'grand strategy\' spreeches and writing from GWB and comparing them to some I\'m pulling from FDR and Churchill to try and make my point concrete.\r\n\r\nI\'d love some pointers to the array of documents that Tom and Trent and some others seem to have seen that I may have missed; we\'re all making assertions of fact and it\'s probably time to stop asserting and start showing some facts.\r\n\r\nHaving said that, I\'ll suggest that I certainly don\'t think I\'m an \"anyone but Bush\" liberal, and that I voted in the last election in a way that helped GWB, conscious of the fact and not unhappy that in doing so he might win.\r\n\r\nAnd I haven\'t heard the strategy. Oh, I\'ve seen opeds from second-tier administration figures and various influential parties that suggeest the policy (in fact, I thought enough of their work that I publicly came out for the war before the war started). But I don\'t see Bush and Cheny and DeLay out stating it or selling it. So even if they have been doing it (a point which I hope we can settle with facts and links), it hasn\'t gotten across to me...and believe me, my only souce of news isn\'t the New York Times or the Beeb. And if I haven\'t seen it...junkie that I am for this kind of stuff...the odds are that my neighbors haven\'t either.\r\n\r\nAnd that the only voices they are hearing are those critical of Bush.\r\n\r\nAnd that their patience for the war - their \'stomach\' for the bad news that must come with wars - will eventually, drop by drop, be worn away.\r\n\r\nI\'m not saying that this is what I want to happen; I\'m specifically saying it\'s what I don\'t want to happen, and making some concrete suggestions of what Bush should do to keep it from happening.\r\n\r\nSo let\'s go to the docs and see what\'s there.\r\n\r\nA.L. ','2003-07-28 06:16:46','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5130,1,3832,'172.158.28.95','Balagan','balagan@yrnyc.org','http://www.yrnyc.org','\"OK, but don\'t you see that \"everyone I know groks that the Saudis are the long-term problem\" may work in the Blogosphere but be a surprise beyond? Same dynamics.\"\r\n\r\nyou are absolutely right joe, i just think this goes without saying and that the time for focusing in like a laser on everyone outside the blogosphere about this is coming soon rather than now. actually in the last few days i think there has begun to be a shift on this. the debate with the american and european (and other assorted) publics is the next big battle we are all gearing up for. lets not jump the gun and \"rush to war\" so to speak. the buildup period is working to our favor by allowing the antiwar crowd to expose themselves as they leap over each other to reach new extremes daily. let us ratchet up the discussion with consideration for this and remember that there is a long road ahead of us. we have to make our arguments and our victories last.','2003-07-28 06:31:47','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5131,1,3832,'67.225.186.176','Porphyrogenitus','jruhlconob@sprynet.com','http://www.porphyrogenitus.net','It\'s been awhile since I let myself be gulled into being someone else\'s research assistant and general gofer, but this one was relatively easy since there\'s a quick source for a lot of this. Here you go
That should get you started.','2003-07-28 07:40:51','2004-11-14 19:15:46',NULL,NULL,NULL,1,NULL,1,'2000-01-01 00:00:00',NULL,NULL),(5132,1,3832,'12.246.71.234','Tim','tj@hotmail.com','','Regarding A.L.\'s point \" But I don\'t see Bush and Cheny and DeLay out stating it or selling it. So even if they have been doing it (a point which I hope we can settle with facts and links), it hasn\'t gotten across to me.\"\r\n\r\nNotwithstanding the fact we don\'t need to be beaten over the head as to why we\'re at war, and what our strategy is, here are excerts from two significant speeches the president gave that are pretty clear in defining the problem and laying out America\'s strategy:\r\n\r\nFirst, from his Address to a Joint Session of Congress and the American People, Sept. 20, 2001:\r\n\r\n...The terrorists practice a fringe form of Islamic extremism that has been rejected by Muslim scholars and the vast majority of Muslim clerics -- a fringe movement that perverts the peaceful teachings of Islam. The terrorists\' directive commands them to kill Christians and Jews, to kill all Americans, and make no distinction among military and civilians, including women and children. \r\n\r\n…This group and its leader -- a person named Osama bin Laden -- are linked to many other organizations in different countries, including the Egyptian Islamic Jihad and the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan. There are thousands of these terrorists in more than 60 countries. They are recruited from their own nations and neighborhoods and brought to camps in places like Afghanistan, where they are trained in the tactics of terror. They are sent back to their homes or sent to hide in countries around the world to plot evil and destruction.\r\n\r\n…The leadership of al Qaeda has great influence in Afghanistan and supports the Taliban regime in controlling most of that country. In Afghanistan, we see al Qaeda\'s vision for the world.\r\n \r\n…These demands are not open to negotiation or discussion. (Applause.) The Taliban must act, and act immediately. They will hand over the terrorists, or they will share in their fate.\r\n \r\n…I also want to speak tonight directly to Muslims throughout the world. We respect your faith. It\'s practiced freely by many millions of Americans, and by millions more in countries that America counts as friends. Its teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah. (Applause.) The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying, in effect, to hijack Islam itself. The enemy of America is not our many Muslim friends; it is not our many Arab friends. Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them. (Applause.)\r\n \r\n…Our war on terror begins with al Qaeda, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated. (Applause.)\r\n \r\n…They want to overthrow existing governments in many Muslim countries, such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan. They want to drive Israel out of the Middle East. They want to drive Christians and Jews out of vast regions of Asia and Africa.\r\n \r\n…These terrorists kill not merely to end lives, but to disrupt and end a way of life. With every atrocity, they hope that America grows fearful, retreating from the world and forsaking our friends. They stand against us, because we stand in their way. \r\n\r\n…We are not deceived by their pretenses to piety. We have seen their kind before. They are the heirs of all the murderous ideologies of the 20th century. By sacrificing human life to serve their radical visions -- by abandoning every value except the will to power -- they follow in the path of fascism, and Nazism, and totalitarianism. And they will follow that path all the way, to where it ends: in history\'s unmarked grave of discarded lies. (Applause.) \r\n \r\n…Americans are asking: How will we fight and win this war? We will direct every resource at our command -- every means of diplomacy, every tool of intelligence, every instrument of law enforcement, every financial influence, and every necessary weapon of war -- to the disruption and to the defeat of the global terror network.\r\n \r\n…This war will not be like the war against Iraq a decade ago, with a decisive liberation of territory and a swift conclusion. It will not look like the air war above Kosovo two years ago, where no ground troops were used and not a single American was lost in combat. \r\n\r\n…Our response involves far more than instant retaliation and isolated strikes. Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign, unlike any other we have ever seen. It may include dramatic strikes, visible on TV, and covert operations, secret even in success. We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or no rest. And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. (Applause.) From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime. \r\n\r\n…These measures are essential. But the only way to defeat terrorism as a threat to our way of life is to stop it, eliminate it, and destroy it where it grows. (Applause.) \r\n\r\n…Many will be involved in this effort, from FBI agents to intelligence operatives to the reservists we have called to active duty. All deserve our thanks, and all have our prayers. And tonight, a few miles from the damaged Pentagon, I have a message for our military: Be ready. I\'ve called the Armed Forces to alert, and there is a reason. The hour is coming when America will act, and you will make us proud. (Applause.) \r\n\r\n…This is not, however, just America\'s fight. And what is at stake is not just America\'s freedom. This is the world\'s fight. This is civilization\'s fight. This is the fight of all who believe in progress and pluralism, tolerance and freedom. \r\n\r\n…We ask every nation to join us. We will ask, and we will need, the help of police forces, intelligence services, and banking systems around the world. The United States is grateful that many nations and many international organizations have already responded -- with sympathy and with support. Nations from Latin America, to Asia, to Africa, to Europe, to the Islamic world. Perhaps the NATO Charter reflects best the attitude of the world: An attack on one is an attack on all. \r\n…The civilized world is rallying to America\'s side. They understand that if this terror goes unpunished, their own cities, their own citizens may be next. Terror, unanswered, can not only bring down buildings, it can threaten the stability of legitimate governments. And you know what -- we\'re not going to allow it. (Applause.) \r\n\r\n…Great harm has been done to us. We have suffered great loss. And in our grief and anger we have found our mission and our moment. Freedom and fear are at war. The advance of human freedom -- the great achievement of our time, and the great hope of every time -- now depends on us. Our nation -- this generation -- will lift a dark threat of violence from our people and our future. We will rally the world to this cause by our efforts, by our courage. We will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail. (Applause.) \r\n\r\n…It is my hope that in the months and years ahead, life will return almost to normal. We\'ll go back to our lives and routines, and that is good. Even grief recedes with time and grace. But our resolve must not pass. Each of us will remember what happened that day, and to whom it happened. We\'ll remember the moment the news came -- where we were and what we were doing. Some will remember an image of a fire, or a story of rescue. Some will carry memories of a face and a voice gone forever.\r\n \r\n…I will not forget this wound to our country or those who inflicted it. I will not yield; I will not rest; I will not relent in waging this struggle for freedom and security for the American people. \r\n\r\n…The course of this conflict is not known, yet its outcome is certain. Freedom and fear, justice and cruelty, have always been at war, and we know that God is not neutral between them. (Applause.) \r\n\r\n…Fellow citizens, we\'ll meet violence with patient justice -- assured of the rightness of our cause, and confident of the victories to come. In all that lies before us, may God grant us wisdom, and may He watch over the United States of America.\r\n \r\nThe second is from the president’s speech at West Point, June 1, 2002:\r\n\r\n…History has also issued its call to your generation. In your last year, America was attacked by a ruthless and resourceful enemy. You graduate from this Academy in a time of war, taking your place in an American military that is powerful and is honorable. Our war on terror is only begun, but in Afghanistan it was begun well. (Applause.)\r\n \r\n…This war will take many turns we cannot predict. Yet I am certain of this: Wherever we carry it, the American flag will stand not only for our power, but for freedom. (Applause.) Our nation\'s cause has always been larger than our nation\'s defense. We fight, as we always fight, for a just peace -- a peace that favors human liberty. We will defend the peace against threats from terrorists and tyrants. We will preserve the peace by building good relations among the great powers. And we will extend the peace by encouraging free and open societies on every continent. \r\n\r\n…In defending the peace, we face a threat with no precedent. Enemies in the past needed great armies and great industrial capabilities to endanger the American people and our nation. The attacks of September the 11th required a few hundred thousand dollars in the hands of a few dozen evil and deluded men. All of the chaos and suffering they caused came at much less than the cost of a single tank. The dangers have not passed. This government and the American people are on watch, we are ready, because we know the terrorists have more money and more men and more plans. \r\n\r\n…The gravest danger to freedom lies at the perilous crossroads of radicalism and technology. When the spread of chemical and biological and nuclear weapons, along with ballistic missile technology -- when that occurs, even weak states and small groups could attain a catastrophic power to strike great nations. Our enemies have declared this very intention, and have been caught seeking these terrible weapons. They want the capability to blackmail us, or to harm us, or to harm our friends -- and we will oppose
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